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Laura Coates Live

Trump Attempts To Distract Supporters From Epstein Story; Breonna Taylor's Mother Speaks Out On Officer's Sentencing; The Democrat Joe Rogan Thinks Should Run For President; "Laura Coates Live" Presents "America Asks" To Answer Viewers' Questions; "Laura Coates Live" Remembers "Cosby Show" Star Malcolm-Jamal Warner. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 21, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MALCOLM-JAMAL WARNER, ACTOR, MUSICIAN, AND POET: But, as with everything, it's not legitimate until it's on television. Because even when the show first came out, you know, there were, you know, White people and Black people talking about the Huxtables don't really exist, Black people don't really live like that. Meanwhile, we were getting tens of thousands of fan letters from people saying, thank you so much for this show.

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ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Just 54 years old. Malcolm-Jamal Warner was 54 years old. Rest in peace.

And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Tonight, a sleight of hand by the president as he and the White House try to get everyone to look at anything but Jeffrey Epstein. Plus, a CNN exclusive. The mother of Breonna Taylor speaking out for her first television interview after the controversial sentence of an officer involved in the raid that killed her daughter. And he is the Texas Democrat that Joe Rogan thinks should run for president. You know what? He will join me tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

You know, if you tell a kid to stay away from the cookie jar, but all they can think about are cookies, that's what happened to President Trump last week when he told his MAGA supporters to stop obsessing over the Epstein files.

So, this week, a different approach. Want cookies? He has been dangling one shiny object after another, talking about everything but the Epstein files. Here's just some of what he has posted online in the last 36 hours.

Let's not talk about Epstein. I'll weigh in on the plea deal for Bryan Koberger, urging the judge to make him explain why he committed the Idaho murders. You still want to talk about Epstein? Well, let me repost a fake A.I. video of President Obama being arrested in the Oval Office. You still want to talk about Epstein? All right, well watch this six-minute video from Senate testimony about Bitcoin. Six minutes too long? All right. How about this three-minute mashup of stunts and tricks?

You still want to talk about Epstein? Okay, I know it's off season, but I am threatening to block a stadium deal if the Washington Commanders don't change their name back to the Washington Redskins. The Cleveland Guardians should also go back to their other name, the Cleveland Indians.

And that's just a taste. I mean, his Truth Social fee looks like everything, everywhere all at once, everything except the Epstein files.

And when the White House press secretary was asked today why the president hasn't just ordered the release of all the files that he can, she punted to the FBI.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has said, if the Department of Justice and the FBI want to move forward with releasing any further credible evidence, they should do so. As to why they have or have not or will, you should ask the FBI about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, the Trump administration, well, they did release files today in the name of transparency to satisfy the public's interests. FBI records to be exact. Nearly a quarter million pages on Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. are now being unsealed, not just request release grand jury testimony. But it's not what the MAGA world asked for.

So, is it an attempt at distraction or just telling people who want government files to get in line and wait their turn? Or is it a failed political promise? Well, the White House says Trump knows best.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: The president is the creator and the leader of the Make America Great Again movement. It's his baby that he made. And he knows what his supporters want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But many of the supporters in the MAGA faithful aren't quite so sure. I mean, take Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of Trump's biggest allies.

Now, she says -- quote -- "If you tell the base of people, who support you, of deep state treasonous crimes, election interference, blackmail, and rich, powerful, elite, evil cabals, then you must take down every enemy of the people. If not, she said, the base will turn and there's no going back. Dangling bits of red meat no longer satisfies. They want the whole steak dinner and will accept nothing else -- unquote.

[23:05:00]

Now, she is not the only Republican lawmaker demanding the steak dinner. At least 10 House Republicans want to force a vote to release the Epstein files. House Speaker Mike Johnson, well, he's closing the door on any vote before the August recess. But congressman leading the charge is confident he will eventually get it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I don't think this is going to go away. And I think when we return in September, we'll get phase two of the Epstein files because we'll get, I believe, every Democrat and at least a dozen Republicans who want transparency and justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Let's begin with the author of "The Red Letter" on Substack, Tara Palmeri. Tara, Congress and Massie -- I mean, he is not backing down. But you do know, Speaker Johnson has stalled that House, so the no vote is going to happen on the files or any time soon. So, where do you see this all going? I mean, what's the next move for MAGA?

TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR PUCK, AUTHOR ON SUBSTACK, PODCAST HOST: I just don't think that they will back down until they see something real. And if they provide what they provided during phase one, which is essentially redacted -- redacted files that were already in the public domain, in the FBI vault, they're going to get even angrier and angrier. And so, if you just keep feeding them the things that they don't want, they're going to react.

And this is just not the way that you handle this situation. And even punting it, it's just dragging it out longer and longer and longer. This is something that is a unique situation for President Trump because he usually is able to create --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

PALMERI: -- a crisis that allows him to move on from the last one. But this is something that people have been waiting for years, and it impacts all types of people and a lot of apolitical people. A lot of his MAGA followers, they do believe in him, but they are -- a lot of them are independents, gadflies, kind of -- there's something about them that makes them distrust authority. That's why they've been so drawn to President Trump.

And now that they're in -- now that they're in office, now that they are the government, they're saying, we're the government, trust us. But for so long, they said, they're the government, don't trust them. So, it's very conflicting to everything that he has ever said before.

COATES: Yeah.

PALMERI: And I think it also -- it shows President Trump in a league of elites above them.

COATES: You really can't have your cake eat it, too. It can't be -- listen. Don't believe in the government. And now, I'm the government, but I'm an exception to the rule. People don't really operate that way, especially if the seed has been planted --

PALMERI: No.

COATES: -- and watered over years. But you also have one of Jeffrey Epstein's accusers. Maria Farmer is her name. She spoke out on CNN tonight, and she was saying that she ran into Donald Trump in Epstein's office. And Epstein told him, she's not here for you, in reference to her.

Now, she didn't allege any criminal action by Trump at that time. And to be clear, Trump has never been the target of an investigation or has he been in this instance, or charged in relation to Epstein.

But this story, of course, is that the sort of detail that would likely maybe appear in a file that people are clamoring to see even if it doesn't actually implicate him, the presence alone?

PALMERI: Yeah, I think it would certainly bolster the narrative that they were very close friends for very long period of time, to the point that during the height of Epstein's sex trafficking operation, Donald Trump was very much around.

At the very least, a lot of the girls remember meeting him. Virginia Giuffre Roberts remembers meeting him. A lot of -- Maria Farmer remembers meeting him. A lot of the women remember meeting him.

I have never personally interviewed a victim, even though I've worked on this story for many years, that was assaulted by him. But there are women who said they were. They were Jane Doe's. They came forward, and then they rescinded their complaints. I don't -- we don't know why. But this is just not a good narrative to be associated with.

And he has made public statements about Jeffrey Epstein. He said that he loves young women publicly. It's just the more you put out there, the more associates you put out there, the narrative really would reveal to people how -- how Epstein operated, how closely interconnected he was with these elites, and how much they really did not care about these girls and how they were just party-favored.

COATES: I mean, just thinking about that phrase, the disposable party favors, that makes your stomach turn, to think about the implications of that.

PALMERI: Yeah.

COATES: By the way, what you said is one of the reasons why many lawyers and judges don't want certain testimony, even the grand jury, to be released in general because of the tarring and feathering and the assumptions and the intimations that are always going to be made in instances like this.

PALMERI: Right.

COATES: I want you to stick around, please, though, Tara, because our viewers, they have a ton of questions about the fallout from the files. You're going to help us answer them later in the show for a special Epstein edition of "America Asks."

[23:10:02]

That's where you get to join in and ask your burning questions. How do you do it? You go to cnn.com/epsteinquestions tonight.

Well, joining me now is Democratic Congressman from New York, Ritchie Torres. Also, former senior adviser to the Trump-Vance campaign, Bryan Lanza. Glad to have both of you, guys, here.

Tonight -- I mean, I have to read something to you again. I spoke about it initially in the open. But Bryan, that statement from Marjorie Taylor Greene warning Trump and others that dangling bits of red meat no longer satisfy, how are they going to, and Trump in particular -- what is the plan? Is the plan to ignore that they're saying things like this and just sort of drip, drip, drip, or say, hmm, here's a little bit of this, I'll take it right back? What is the plan here?

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR TRUMP-VANCE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I would -- listen. I've been around Trump world and around Trump world basically since, you know, early 2015.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

LANZA: And what I have learned and you've learned from him is that in three to four days, there's usually another crisis that emerges, that supersedes everything. And --

COATES: That's not happening here.

LANZA: That's not happening here. But what's happening this week? He's going to go to U.K., and that's going to absorb a lot of media attention, a lot of coverage, and we're going to move on from this.

COATES: Well, unless he brings Meghan Markle with him to reunite with the family. That's not going to do it either.

LANZA: I don't think he's going to be the re-uniter-in-chief of this one. But my point is if you're in Trump long enough, you know you can usually survive three days, and then a new story develops. We're now in the third week of this. The new story hasn't developed. But there is a major landmark event, the U.K. visit. That's going to absorb a lot of coverage. It's going to turn the page.

But they still ultimately need some type of release valve --

COATES: Yeah.

LANZA: -- for the base. There needs to be something there where they feel like, you know, they're not protecting the elite, and that needs to happen, I think.

COATES: That turn of phrase reminds me of what your fellow congressman, Ro Khanna, had to say, where he is urging in a political playbook interview, he is urging Democrats to hammer in on this point. Here is what he is saying as the sort of the way to connect it to a larger criticism of the administration. Saying, whose side are you on? Are you voting to protect rich and powerful men, or are you standing with America's children and the people?

Do you agree that this is a topic to hammer home and connect to a larger issue about and around the midterms?

REP. RITCHIE TORRES (D-NY): Look, the issue is the credibility of Donald Trump.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

TORRES: You know, the MAGA movement sees Donald Trump as the chosen one. Right? He was chosen to release the Epstein files as though it were a form of revelation and destroy the deep state and drain the swamp. But here's the problem with the notion of Donald Trump as the savior. How can you drain the swamp when you've been part of the swamp?

COATES: Hmm.

TORRES: There is no one in Washington, D.C. who has closer and longer ties to Jeffrey Epstein than Donald Trump.

COATES: Also, the president is a symbol of -- I mean, that is the insider, the ultimate insider in general for a president. But your larger point?

TORRES: He is no -- like, the greatest trick the devil ever performed was convincing the world that Donald Trump was an outsider. He's no outsider. He's the ultimate elite insider. He was inside the world, the social world of Jeffrey Epstein.

By his own admission in 2002 in a New York magazine of Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump went on the record praising his longstanding relationship with Epstein. He said that Epstein loves beautiful women as much as he does and -- quote -- "many of them are on the younger side." Like, Donald Trump, it's true that he's the creator of MAGA, but he's like Dr. Frankenstein who has created a monster that might spiral out of control.

COATES: And yet what do you think of the fact that he did release through, obviously, DNI and otherwise, he did release thousands of documents in the vein of transparency, he says, with the MLK files? Is this a bait and switch to say, see, we are transparent in some spaces, but just not this one? What do make of it?

TORRES: The motto of Donald Trump is promises made, promises kept. He did -- he promised to release the Epstein files. He should keep his promise. This is -- this is -- this could be an extinction moment for the credibility of Donald Trump within the MAGA movement. Yes, he's accustomed to facing crises, but he has never had to face a crisis within the MAGA movement that he created.

COATES: Is it an extinction moment to you?

LANZA: No. Listen. At the end of the day, the MAGA movement has, you know, 13 things that it's trying to achieve, and Epstein is one of them. Right? That's the files. This is in year one. He has several other years to do it.

I think the challenge he has is the whole process has been clumsy. It has been sloppy. You know, Pam Bondi, the attorney general, she knew she had a deadline. She had to release these things by. She put a deadline upon herself. She created a tension towards it, and then said there's nothing here.

That moment, you know, it caused a rift within MAGA. They're like, wait a second, you promised us something, you dangled stuff, you went on Fox News and said all these things, and then all we get is a memo that this isn't going to happen.

COATES: So, how Democrats seize on that? I mean, that's -- what he says is true, about the A.G., about Trump, about promises failed.

(CROSSTALK)

TORRES: I would say we should have --

LANZA: Voters don't care about these things.

COATES: Do they?

TORRES: Voters do care because it's about his credibility. And look, Donald Trump and his administration have been signaling to the MAGA base that the Epstein client list is real, that the deep state is engaged in a massive cover-up, and that Donald Trump is the one and only person on earth who can reveal the truth.

[23:15:02]

And now, MAGA is beginning to wonder whether Donald Trump is part of the cover-up and corruption of the deep state that he has long decried. It is fair for Democrats to call out that hypocrisy.

COATES: That seems very corrosive to Trump if he loses that credibility and the person who can be that sort of transparent savior.

LANZA: I mean -- listen. I -- you know, I come on CNN and other networks where we say this is a credibility threat to Donald Trump, something is happening, he always survives these things. I think he has a better pulse of what his base wants than anybody else, certainly myself, certainly the congressman or anybody in the media. I think he'll survive this. I do think he needs some type of release now.

But I also think the issue is very complicated. I think the most important thing that they haven't gone out is the vast majority of the victims who are in this don't want their names released. You can't release the victims. You can't release the predators. COATES: Well, you -- you can do that. You could redact. That can be done. You can redact and also get more information.

LANZA: Exactly. Redact so you're not releasing names.

COATES: They want the names of not the victims. They want the names of the predators. Right?

TORRES: Yeah. And also, let's be clear. Like, the calls to release the files have come from Trump himself. Like, right before the presidential election in October of 2024, J.D. Vance said, release the files.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

TORRES: Right? I think John Roberts from Fox News asked Pam Bondi, is the Trump administration going to publish the Epstein client list? She said she had it waiting on her desk, sitting on her desk waiting for review. So, you know, the Trump administration has been stoking the fires of conspiratorial politics. And now, those fires are threatening to devour the Trump administration. And he has no one to blame but himself.

COATES: Bryan, I know you hope for that U.K. trip to take it all away. I don't know. But Congressman Ritchie Torres, Bryan Lanza, thank you both.

Up next, after two trials and a guilty jury verdict, the DOJ is changing its tune. Forget a years-long sentence. The prosecutor said, how about one day, one day for the officer convicted of violating Breonna Taylor's civil rights. And tonight, the judge has made her decision. She wasn't having it. Breonna Taylor's mother joins me for a CNN exclusive with her reaction to that sentence next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

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COATES: Thirty-three months. That's the prison sentence that ex- Louisville Officer Brett Hankison faces in connection to the death of Breonna Taylor. It's also almost a thousand days longer than the one day that the federal prosecutors wanted. They argue he should only have a day in prison after a jury found him guilty of violating Taylor's civil rights.

Remember, it has been over five years since Breonna Taylor was killed inside of her own home after police obtained a no-knock drug warrant to enter her apartment. No drugs or cash were ever found.

But the officers who fatally shot Breonna were never even charged. But this officer, who blindly fired 10 shots from outside of her apartment, he was. The prosecutors successfully argued that Hankison used excessive force. That conviction was secured under the Biden administration's DOJ. So, it was a consent decree with Louisville to reform their police department.

Now, this new administration is doing away with those consent decrees. And last week, the administration that now has DOJ said in a memo that it wasn't the force but the prosecution that was excessive. They argued Hankison should only serve one day in prison, that he was susceptible to abuse in prison. And two other trials ended without a conviction. Hadn't he suffered enough?

Federal Judge Rebecca Grady Jennings, well, she rejected that request, saying the DOJ was treating Hankison's actions as -- quote -- "an inconsequential crime" and adding the sentencing memo was "incongruous and inappropriate."

With me now, the mother of Breonna Taylor, Tamika Palmer, and the family's attorney, Benjamin Crump. Thank you both for being here.

Tamika, it has been more than five years since we lost Breonna. I know your family and you have been processing what has happened overall, let alone the sentencing. The federal prosecutors, though, they asked for him to get one day. The judge gave him 33 months. Was this justice in your eyes?

TAMIKA PALMER, MOTHER OF BREONNA TAYLOR: It wasn't justice, but I got essentially what I started out for, which was jail time. So, it's a start.

COATES: When you heard the prosecution say, one day, what went through your mind?

PALMER: I couldn't understand why he was there. From the moment it started, I felt as if he should have been sitting next to Brett Hankison.

COATES: The prosecutor, you mean?

PALMER: Yes. Absolutely.

COATES: Is that what you meant? Because there was a moment you said -- I'm sorry. There was a moment you said something like, outside the courthouse, there was no prosecution for us. Is that what you meant? You didn't have an advocate?

PALMER: Absolutely. That's exactly what I mean. He advocated for Brett the whole time. Like, he never -- there was no advocation for the family for any of the victims. It was him literally there to make sure Brett got the least amount of time as possible.

[23:25:03]

COATES: Did the prosecution ever speak with you or meet with you leading up to today's sentencing?

PALMER: No. He didn't know who I was when he even came over to address us.

COATES: Really? PALMER: No. I've never spoke with him. I've never -- like I said, he came over to speak with us. He didn't know who I was.

COATES: You know, Ben, I cannot get this out of my head, because I have never heard of the government spending years on a case, going through not one but two federal trials because the first one ended in a mistrial, then the government securing a conviction, and then asking for one day after the jury rendered their verdict. I mean, you were in that courtroom for hours today. Walk me through your reaction.

BEN CRUMP, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: So, Laura, this new prosecutor was brought in with this new administration. And the prosecutor that had worked on this case under the direction of civil rights division chair, Kristen Clarke, I guess, was told that he was not going to be the person on the sentencing and that they were no longer going to be seeking jail time.

And so, this new prosecutor who showed up, who never met with the family, never met with the victim's family, Laura, first day in court, he meets them, and then stands up before the judge and argues on behalf of the police officer, Brett Hankison.

COATES: Hmm.

CRUMP: It's like what Palmer said, she had nobody there arguing for Breonna Taylor. They both were arguing for Brett Hankison to be exonerated. And it was -- it was like a George Orwell's "Animal Farm" courthouse.

COATES: What did the judge do when that judge heard those arguments? I mean, the judge must have been taken aback by the way that was handled then.

CRUMP: She certainly was. She said she was very troubled. And she actually said the same thing that Tamika Palmer said, that the prosecutor came in the courtroom today and did a 180 about face. I mean, he argued that their prosecution was flimsy at best, they never should have charged them, this was a good officer and nothing will be served by him going to prison.

COATES: Wow.

CRUMP: It was -- it was this administration telling Breonna Taylor that we're not here for you to get justice, we're here for the police officer.

COATES: To have a jury find something to secure that verdict, and then to act like it was nothing.

CRUMP: It was so profound that the prosecutor kept arguing, well, his bullets didn't hit anybody, you know, and this seems like it's such a reach to convict him. She said, no, no, we explained it perfectly to everybody in the courtroom during the trials that it was a violation of Breonna's civil rights, that she was under seizure based on the Fourth Amendment. And so, when he was shooting those bullets, Breonna was not

free to leave. And he shot so recklessly --

COATES: Hmm.

CRUMP: -- that he put his fellow officers in danger. He put the neighbors, he put everybody in danger. So, she said there was a crime committed. And a jury convicted on that crime.

COATES: Yes.

CRUMP: I mean, she had to explain it to prosecutor because the prosecutor was arguing that it really wasn't a crime committed.

COATES: Tamika, what was that like hearing that? I remind the audience that no one has been directly charged with shooting your daughter. You've worked hard to ban no-knock warrants. You've worked hard to, as you say, secure jail time and some semblance of justice. But in that courtroom and watching all of this unfold as you have, how are you feeling about this?

PALMER: I'm still trying to -- I'm still trying to come to terms with what happened today with prosecution. I think the judge did the best she could with what she had to work with. I just -- from the prosecution's stance, Breonna never stood a chance in that courtroom tonight.

[23:30:00]

COATES: Thank you for being here and fighting. As I told you before, mother to mother, you fight for all of our daughters, and I appreciate it.

PALMER: Thank you.

COATES: Tamika Palmer, Ben Crump, thank you both.

CRUMP: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Still ahead tonight, with all eyes on Republicans trying to add seats in Texas, he's a Texas Democrat getting a lot of attention. Joe Rogan even told him he should run for president. State Rep James Talarico joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

COATES: It's the podcast that consistently tops the charts right here in this country. And many credits or blame Joe Rogan's 11th-hour endorsement of Trump in 2024 with helping him to get him the key votes he needed, especially among the so-called manosphere. It even served as a wake-up call to Democrats, many of whom are now flooding the zone on podcasts, trying to reach a new generation of voters.

Well, now, Rogan is pitching a new idea for a presidential candidate. It's probably not someone who has been on your radar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. JAMES TALARICO (D-TX): I think of politics now less as left versus right and much more as top versus bottom.

JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER: Yeah.

TALARICO: Because I just see how we are all pitted against each other. We have far more in common than the stuff that divides us. And that's a threat to their power. It's a threat to their wealth.

ROGAN: You need to run for president.

(LAUGHTER)

We need someone who's actually a good person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, that person is my next guest, Texas State Representative James Talarico. He's a Democrat and seminary student, who sat with Rogan for over two and a half hours just last week to pitch his new vision for the party. He joins me now. Good to see you, James. Not on radio today with me, but since Rogan's podcast, I have been seeing you everywhere. Why do you think your message is hitting right now?

TALARICO: Well, you know, I think democrats have to get out of their comfort zone, and we've got to meet people where they're at. So, before I went on Joe Rogan's podcast, I went on Fox News, I went on the Christian broadcasting network.

Politics, in my view, is about addition, not subtraction. We've got to build a big coalition, a big tent, if we're going to take power back from these billionaires who are dividing us and taking advantage of all of us.

And so that's why I went on Joe Rogan's podcast, to reach out to folks who aren't with us yet, but I think can be with us if they hear our vision directly from us.

COATES: Well, Democrats, as you know, they lost the House. They want it back. How do they convince voters that the vision they want is what Democrats will offer?

TALARICO: Well, first, I think we have to start by telling the truth, and that is that this political system of ours is deeply broken. There is far too much influence from big money and billionaire mega donors.

And if Democrats aren't talking about this corruption, if we're not putting forward a positive vision for how we can clean up government and make it work for regular working people, then we're not going to win the next election. So, that's on us.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

TALARICO: We're to have to acknowledge the ways in which the system is broken, and then put forward our vision for how we can fix it from the bottom up. And I think if we do that, we will see the fruits in 2026.

COATES: But what if the -- some voters believe that it's Democrats who broke it, the Democrats who are causing the disconnects and beyond. What do you say in response? Do you push over to the Republicans and say it wasn't us, we can fix it, though?

TALARICO: No. I think we've got to accept our -- our share of the responsibility. You know, this is a problem in both political parties. The influence of wealthy special interests, the influence of big money and these -- these billionaire donors, that's something that affects both political parties in all corners of this country.

COATES: Yeah.

TALARICO: And so, if we're not honest about that fact, then we're not shooting straight with the American people. I think -- I think folks are hungry for people who will tell them the truth, and then provide real solutions to get us out of this mess and make this democracy actually work for regular people.

COATES: Well, here's somebody who's known as a straight shooter, but his -- his solution may not be yours. I'm talking about Democratic strategist James Carville. He just wrote in an op-ed -- quote -- "The only thing that can save us now is an actual savior, because a new party can be delivered only by a person. No matter how many podcasts or influencer streams or candidates go on, our new leader won't arrive until the day after the midterms in November 2026." What's your reaction?

TALARICO: Well, I know James Carville is one of the most talented and successful operatives in our party, and he oftentimes uses colorful language. I already have a savior, but I know that in 2028, we're going to have a Democratic nominee for president that we can rally around.

We can't wait until then, though. Our party has got to start now organizing in every part of this country, not just in blue states, but in red and purple states, too. We've got start putting forward a positive vision for how we're going to change this broken political system and start delivering for people on housing, on health care, on education.

That work starts today. And so, I don't want our party waiting around until 2027 or 2028. The work starts now if we're going to take back this country in 2026 and 2028.

COATES: Quickly, some of the work in Texas involves the potential redistricting to add more Republican seats. Do you agree with the Republican strategy to do that or the Democrats, in return, try doing the same?

[23:40:01]

TALARICO: No. Donald Trump is attempting to rig the next election. You know, he and his allies in Congress just passed the largest transfer of wealth in American history with their big, beautiful bill, kicking millions of people off their health care to cut taxes for their billionaire donors.

I mean, normally, in a democracy, when you pass an unpopular policy like this, you lose seats in the next election.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

TALARICO: But Donald Trump and his allies here in Texas are trying to cheat by drawing new maps that will guarantee a Republican victory in this state and across the nation. That is unacceptable. It's a threat to all of us.

Politicians shouldn't be picking their voters. Voters should be picking their politicians. We need a new redistricting system where the power is in the hands of the people, not elected officials like we.

COATES: State Senator James Talarico, thank you.

TALARICO: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Up next, we're taking your questions about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. You can submit yours at cnn.com/epsteinquestions. One of the top reporters who has covered the investigation for years will join us live.

And later, America's son. Remembering Malcolm-Jamal Warner and his impact on the "Cosby Show."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: You know, you're not imagining things if you've noticed that interest in Jeffrey Epstein has literally skyrocketed in recent weeks. I mean, look at just what has been happening over since this issue began to plague the White House.

One book on Epstein is now completely out of stock. Viewership for the Netflix docuseries on Epstein has surged by more than 250%. And Google trends show an uptick in Epstein-related searches.

We know that you all have questions out there as well. We're here to answer them. So, it's time now for "America Asks." Tara Palmeri is back with us. She has reported extensively on the Epstein case for years.

Okay, so, Tara, work with me here. We've got a question from Herb from California asking, with Epstein dead and unable to confirm or deny the existence of a list or Trump's involvement in the scandal, couldn't Ghislaine Maxwell offer some new insight?

PALMERI: Absolutely, Ghislaine Maxwell could offer a lot of insight. I wondered why she hasn't used that information in some sort of like at least sentencing bargaining or plea bargain or words in some way to sort of shorten the term, which is 20 years. And I assumed that she was maybe using that information or holding on to it for a later date. But her case is in appeal right now before the Supreme Court. But she'll lose. I think it's almost useless.

But, you know, Ghislaine Maxwell, she kept people's secrets. That's what she did. She was very shrewd. I think she assumes that she won't serve the entire term. She could be pardoned. So --

COATES: Well, you're right. I mean, the appellate process is not yet exhausted. That actually leads me to the next question from Christine from Ohio. Tara, this actually dovetails perfectly because she asks, when Maxwell was tried and convicted, why didn't any names come out at that time? Could it have lowered her sentence?

PALMERI: Well, it wasn't a case against the Johns, it was a case against her. And so, they had to keep it targeted towards her.

And just weeks ago, before I -- before we were all told case closed, no third parties would be prosecuted by the Justice Department, I had talked to senior law enforcement officials who told me that they were working on cases, that there were active cases against John, that they were worried that if they put out those files, that it, you know, would make it more difficult for them to prosecute, and then they also didn't want to be able to reopen the Ghislaine Maxwell case with prejudicial information.

Now, did they mean it? It's hard to say.

COATES: Yeah.

PALMERI: It may have been over their head. But to shut it down -- but that was what I was told. Clearly, those cases are not moving forward anymore.

COATES: Well, Carol from Pennsylvania asked this question. Aren't MAGA supporters worried that Trump will be in the Epstein files?

PALMERI: He is in the Epstein files. He is. Like, he's in the black book. Like, those are the files. You know, he is mentioned in the files. He has visited the -- he's in the flight logs. He has visited -- he's everywhere.

Now, when you say in the files, do you mean that there will be a Jane Doe who says that she was assaulted by him or that he will have a number like a John Doe name in the files? I don't -- I don't know that. But he -- from the public files that we've seen in the vault, he's in there. He's everywhere. He's also publicly everywhere with Jeffrey Epstein.

COATES: Well, we'll see how it all unfolds. Of course, many questions to linger. Tara, thanks for sticking around.

PALMERI: Thank you.

COATES: You know, my sisters and I didn't have any brothers growing up, except on Thursday nights. And for that, I have Malcolm-Jamal Warner to thank for bringing Theo Huxtable to life. I'll remember him with the help of Professor Michael Eric Dyson next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARNER: Now, some guys might find it hard living with four sisters, but I think it has made me more sensitive to the wants and needs of women.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That was my Thursday night brother since I grew up with all sisters, too. Malcolm-Jamal Warner, the actor behind the iconic role of Theodore Huxtable from the "Cosby Show." Fans like me are remembering his charm, his humor, his smile, his vulnerability, while honoring his legacy.

We learned today that Malcolm died yesterday at the age of 54. He was swimming while on vacation in Costa Rica when authorities say that a strong current pulled him deeper into the ocean. People tried to save him. They could not. And sadly, he passed away.

Warner's career, it spanned decades. It spanned genres. It included T.V. hits like "Malcolm and Eddie" and "The Magic School Bus" and a Grammy for best traditional R&B performance.

[23:54:58]

But his role as Theo catapulted Warner to stardom and left an indelible mark on pop culture and life with well-memorable scenes like these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

WARNER: Is this my shirt? Is this the shirt I paid $30 for? Is this the shirt they are supposed to think is a Gordon Gartrell?

(LAUGHTER)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE).

WARNER: Ask me the question again.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Huh! Warner, he leaves behind a wife, he leaves behind a daughter, and he leaves behind a fan base that's immeasurable.

With me now, Michael Eric Dyson, distinguished university professor of African American & Diaspora Studies at Vanderbilt University. Michael, I -- that was one of my favorite episodes. Also, the one where he is shown real life and you have Rudy as his landlord. I can think of so many scenes and it made me smile just like today. What are some of your favorite memories of Malcolm-Jamal Warner?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN AMERICAN & DIASPORA STUDIES, VANDEBILT UNIVERSITY: Yeah, that Gordon Gartrell, you know, that shirt scene and the scene where he's doing poorly in school. So, his father, you know, comes up and says, your mother sent me up here to kill you.

(LAUGHTER)

And he sits there, he talks to him, and he says, I don't need to do well in school because I'm just going to be a bus driver. So, I'm like -- he says, so let me get this right. You know, you don't want to do -- you -- you don't need to do well in school because normal people don't know -- need to know what they're doing. Just beautiful. It captured the mind of a typical teenager --

COATES: Yeah.

DYSON: -- and think about it. He was the most famous Black male teenager, American teenager at one point in this nation. And he represented on that sitcom, you know, a sensitive young man growing up. He wasn't a thug, he wasn't hood, he wasn't somebody who was trying to be slick. He was using his middle-class status as both a badge of entitlement but also of introspection.

And the real Malcolm-Jamal Warner said, I'm a poet before I'm an actor. And, as you've already cited in some of the accolades, you know, playing in the band that fused jazz and hip-hop and so on. He was a great poet.

COATES: Yeah.

DYSON: He talked about ideals central to Black people. And also, he just was unapologetically beautifully Black in his own way.

COATES: You know, what I loved was that he was so authentic. And he was -- he was -- I didn't know him personally, but I felt like I knew Theo. We watched as a family in the 80s, watching the "Cosby Show." And what you saw was that a young Black teenager had range of emotion, had feelings, had wit, had charm, had a powerful and resilient relationship with every member of his family. What did it mean to have a character --

DYSON: Yeah.

COATES: -- like Theo on T.V. in the 1980s?

DYSON: Oh, it's incalculable because hip-hop is leaving. Right? The show ran from what, 84 to 92?

COATES: Uh-hmm.

DYSON: So, you're seeing, you know, the birth of hip-hop in '79 above ground. He comes in four years later, five years later, and then goes into the golden age in the 90s. He is a powerful, beautiful, emblematic expression of Black masculinity.

And when he grew older in real life and that got that deeper voice, and the women loved him and the men admired him, he was a brother, he was a son, he was a father, he was a cousin, he was an uncle, he was a person who represented the beauty and power of Black masculinity without degrading, without insulting, without feeling the necessity to hurt or harm anybody else. That was incredibly powerful and important.

We talk about Bill Cosby as America's father. He was America's son. He was America's little brother or big brother. And he played that beautifully. And in real life, he managed to even more so embody the integrity, the beauty, and the authority and authenticity of Black masculinity.

COATES: You know, you have critiqued the "Cosby Show" at times. But you added that it made it easier for Americans to picture a Black family, even like the Obamas in the White House. How did Theo and the show as a whole impact culture?

DYSON: Yes. Well, think about it. I mentioned hip-hop. And the genius of hip-hop is that, unlike the civil rights movement and generation, hip-hop didn't cross over to the broader America, but it asked America to over to it. So, it used its own vernacular, its own common language and colloquialism. What Theo did was more like Motown.

[23:59:56]

You know, Berry Gordy consciously pitched his audience to say that I'm going to appeal not only to African American people who are in the neighborhoods, but also to white ears that may not be used to Black America.

What Theo managed to do was to balance both hip-hop and Motown. He was able to be authentically himself. Look at the posters in his room about South Africa and apartheid. It was political. But on the other hand, it also showed the broad humanity, the universality.

Theo was any American kid. And if you can imagine yourself doing the things he did, you could transcend a narrow conception, a negative one of blackness --

COATES: Hmm.

DYSON: -- and embrace his universal human experience.

COATES: This one hit different. Michael Eric Dyson --

DYSON: Yeah.

COATES: -- thank you.

DYSON: Rest in peace, my man.

COATES: Thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.