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Laura Coates Live

The Idaho Murders: Idaho Killer Sent to Prison for Life. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 23, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Before we go, a special programming note. Most summer Fridays, we will be broadcasting a round table debate from the Food Network Kitchen. We will have food and some lively conversation. You don't want to miss it.

And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the new revelations just released in the Idaho College murders just as the killer is sent away to prison with the voice of the families that he has ruined ringing in his ear on a special edition of "Laura Coates Live: The Idaho Murders."

The Idaho murder case that shattered a college community and shocked a nation ended today with a judge locking the door and throwing away the key. But the families are left without the one thing they still want: Answers to all of their questions or even just one question. Why?

Bryan Kohberger, the man who murdered four University of Idaho students in 2022, will spend the rest of his life in prison. He has now been sentenced to four consecutive life terms without even the possibility of parole. That's one life sentence for taking the life of each of these victims: Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, and Xana Kernodle.

It's hard to believe it has been nearly three years since these four innocent people were killed, attacked in their shared three-story house in the middle of the night.

Tonight, newly unsealed files are setting more light on the investigation. But before those documents were released, the victims' families had a chance to tell the judge just how they had been impacted by this nightmare. And not just the judge, they said it to the man who killed their children, Bryan Kohberger.

One of the most dramatic moments was when Kaylee Goncalves's father literally turned the podium to directly face his daughter's killer. The outrage only grew.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE GONCALVES, FATHER OF KAYLEE GONCALVES: Today, we are here to finish what you started. Today, you've lost control. Today, we are here to prove to the world that you picked the wrong families. Police officers tell us, within minutes, they had your DNA, like a calling card. You were that careless, that foolish, that stupid. Master degree? You're a joke. Complete joke.

RANDY DAVIS, STEPFATHER OF XANA KERNODLE: I guarantee you, you are weak. God, I would just give a moment, man, five minutes out in the woods. Oh, man. You're going to go to hell. I know people believe in other stuff. You're -- you're evil. There's no place for you in heaven.

ALIVEA GONCALVES, SISTER OF KAYLEE GONCALVES: You're as dumb as they come, stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty. Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. I see through you. You want the truth? Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep, in the middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. Thank you.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The grief, the anger, it was raw, it was palpable, and it was deeply, deeply personal. But there were some family members who also said that they now hope to move on from the pain. I suppose all of them want that. Some even expressed forgiveness toward Kohberger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT LARAMIE, STEPFATHER OF MADISON MOGEN: Evil has many faces, and we now know this. But evil does not deserve our time and attention. We are done being victims.

[23:05:00]

We are taking back our lives.

KIM KERNODLE, AUNT OF XANA KERNODLE: You know, this is probably going to bother everybody, but Bryan, I'm here today to tell you I have forgiven you, because I no longer could live with that hate in my heart. And for me to become a better person, I have forgiven you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: It wasn't only the families who spoke out. And don't forget, there were two other roommates in the house that night that Ethan and Madison and Kaylee and Xana were killed. The other two's lives were spared. And we heard from them for the first time today publicly. Bethany Funke had her friend read her impact statement. The other roommate, Dylan Mortensen, fought through tears to share her trauma. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DYLAN MORTENSEN, SURVIVING ROOMMATE: He is a hollow vessel, something less than human. A body without empathy, without remorse. He chose destruction. He chose evil. He feels nothing. He tried to take everything from me: My friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives.

But I will continue trying to be like them to make them proud. Living is how I honor them. Speaking today is to help me find some sort of justice for them. And I will never let him take that from me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Can you imagine? I mean, heartbreaking isn't even the word. Even the judge wiped his eyes while the victims' families and, as you've seen, those who read their statements. I mean, it's -- it is really hard to imagine anyone who would not be emotional in that room.

But you don't have to imagine that because there was one person in the court who didn't react at all. Did you catch that split screen? Bryan Kohberger. He sat there in an orange jumpsuit, emotionless, no reaction. He spoke only three words the entire time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE STEVEN HIPPLER, JUDGE, IDAHO 4TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT: Mr. Kohberger, you have an opportunity to make a statement if you wish to. I take it you are declining.

BRYAN KOHBERGER, SENTENCED FOR LIFE IN PRISON FOR MURDER: I respectfully decline.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Coward.

HIPPIER: Please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, as long as it was respectfully. We heard it there for these families. Kohberger's refusal to speak, it felt like a final act of cowardice or defiance or -- I'll just say it. Pure cruelty, even if it was his right. I mean, can you imagine what it's like for the families waiting for him to say something, say anything that might explain why he did it? He respectfully declined, though. Not even the courtesy of a disingenuous apology.

Well, tonight, I'll speak with one guest who has an idea of what his motive may have been. But the judge says even if Kohberger did talk, his words would have been worthless.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HIPPLER: Even if I could force him to speak, which legally I cannot, how could anyone ever be assured that what he speaks is the truth? Do we really believe, after all of this, he's capable of speaking the truth or giving up something of himself to help the very people whose lives he destroyed?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Let's begin with CNN's Jean Casarez who is in Boise, Idaho. And Jean has been following this case from the very beginning. You have been invaluable for all of us, Jean. I heard you say earlier that you -- you never had seen anything like what happened in the courtroom today. I mean, that's extraordinary, considering that you have been covering criminal trials for decades, and I can only imagine all that you have seen. So, what was it about today?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, Laura, it was so many things. First of all, and you said this, it was the raw emotion, not emotion, raw emotion from family members one after the other. And, you know, so often in a sentencing, the judge will instruct those that are giving victim impact statements that you address the court.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CASAREZ: And there's really virtually one case, the Green River Killer, the serial killer in Washington, when I was in that courtroom, the judge allowed them to speak to the defendant who had murdered their loved one.

[23:10:00]

Well, in the middle of this, and you mentioned this, too, Laura, Mr. Goncalves, who later said he had a memo that was told that you shouldn't move in the courtroom, he took that lectern and boy, he moved it, and he suddenly is starting to direct his conversation, first person, to the defendant.

And during the Goncalves family, because his daughter spoke, his wife spoke, during that time, all of a sudden, the courtroom erupts in applause. I've never heard a courtroom erupt in applause --

COATES: Hmm.

CASAREZ: -- but people just felt what they were saying and were supportive of what they were saying. And I thought that was just extraordinary. And those things just made it so unique, something that will always stand out.

COATES: I mean, this case, technically, may be over. But Jean, there are still, you know, so many questions. I mean, the Moscow -- the Moscow police, they're releasing a new trove of documents detailing their criminal investigation tonight. What are we learning about even the crime scene?

CASAREZ: Well, Laura, this -- this is sobering. It is shocking. This -- here is one of the latest things that just came out minutes ago. Xana Kernodle, one of the victims, she was found in her bedroom, on the floor, near the doorway, and she was covered in blood, and items in the room were covered in blood. So, law enforcement believes there was a terrible struggle. But we now have learned through the documentation from law enforcement that she had more than 50 stab wounds, and many of them were defensive wounds, meaning she fought back, she fought hard.

And then we have Kaylee Goncalves and Maddie Mogen, and they were in a bedroom on the third floor, the top floor, and it's believed he went to the top floor first. They had a pink blanket over them that was just drenched in blood. And the preliminary autopsy report that just came out said that Kaylee had more than 20 stab wounds.

COATES: Hmm.

CASAREZ: Well, Mr. Goncalves said today, and obviously now there is a final report, he said that she has more than 30 stab wounds. And not only that, but the documentation, even the preliminary report, her face was unrecognizable. It was completely disfigured.

Last point, the coroner said it was not a serrated knife, a straight edge knife that could have so much force when it was put into a human being.

COATES: Unbelievable, Jean, to think about that. And I know we don't have a lot of information about this, but he had his first interview with police. Can you tell me anything about what his demeanor was like then? Because we didn't see him even flinch in the courtroom.

CASAREZ: Well, this has just come out, too. It was in Pennsylvania, Northeastern Pennsylvania, December 2022. Moscow police and Idaho State Police, they went to the jail, waiting for him to be transported in. So, he's there and there's a lot of small talk and they're going on and just, you know, Washington State, he likes to follow the baseball, not the football. Finally, he says, so why exactly do you have me here?

COATES: Hmm.

CASAREZ: So, he knew all along that this was serious, and he acted like it wasn't. And then they said, well, have you heard about the murders that happened in Moscow? And he said, yeah, I got an alert on my phone, something about it. But he cared about his parents and his dog, not really much knowledge on the murders in Idaho.

So, this is someone that worked very hard to be one step ahead. And when they get to more serious questions, he said, constitutionally, I am allowed to have an attorney. And so, the questioning stopped.

COATES: An alert on his phone. Jean Casarez, unbelievable. Thank you so much for all of your reporting on this.

CASAREZ: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: We got to talk about this because there is just so much to try to unpack, even what we're learning tonight, the team was just talking about. So, let's bring in investigative journalist Howard Blum. He is the author of "When the Night Comes Falling: A Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders." Also here, defense attorney Misty Marris and former senior FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole.

I mean, it's shocking even to think about what we've just heard, let alone what happened inside of that courtroom and the sentencing. Howard, Kohberger, to call him a zombie might be an understatement in terms of his presence in that court. I mean, he showed no remorse in court. He opted not to speak. That's, of course, his right.

[23:15:00]

But will we ever know, will he ever reveal what happened and his motive?

HOWARD BLUM, AUTHOR: I think we will get answers, but it will take a while. The prosecution, the judge, they said it is time to move on. The Goncalves family, filled with their sort of Old Testament fury, was demanding answers. They even asked Kohberger. Alivea Goncalves asked him several questions, specific questions. Why did you do this? Why did you do that? Where is the knife? Things like that.

I think once he's in jail, he was in total control, he will answer these questions. He always wanted to be a forensic psychologist. In jail, he will get his opportunity to meet with what he feels, our peers in the field, and he will begin to share these answers with us.

And I think it was a mistake for the prosecution not to demand answers beforehand. I'm not talking about why. We'll never get a rational reason to explain why something did this.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Okay.

BLUM: But we might get specific answers. Where is the knife?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Right.

BLUM: How did you get out of the house? All the blood that was revealed tonight in those documents, how did he get out without leaving a trace?

COATES: Hmm. You know, Mary Ellen, just hearing Howard describe that --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): -- two segments.

COATES: -- and, of course, thinking about that, Mary Ellen, the control part really sticks in my mind, the idea that this is about power and control and knowing full well that he has the information that people want, and the idea of him wanting to be someone who was in the field.

I mean, there was a newly released document tonight. A former friend of his, who was in the same criminology program as Kohberger, revealed that Kohberger's area of study was actually criminal decision making and crimes like burglary. So, what does that tell you about Kohberger, Mary Ellen?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR PROFILER AND SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Well, it tells me a number of things about him. He has very flat affect, which means there's -- there's very little emotion that you see. He intellectualizes. That could -- that's certainly part of his personality. If they ever release those psychological tests, we'll know a little bit more about what might be more specifically behind this.

I know, from my own experience, work in these kinds of cases, that someone that has psychopathic traits, the old term was sociopath. The new term is psychopathic, that these are individuals that are extremely cold-blooded, so they're not impacted by the damage that they inflict on other people. So, I think that's very important.

And also, I think his motivations, multiple, never one, are really a part of how he went into that house and why he went into that house --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

O'TOOLE: -- and that he planned it and he studied it almost like carrying out a lesson plan. And I think that was also a part of -- again, part of his planning, part of his training, and part of his motivation. But again, I think it's important that we understand that there's never one reason.

And I agree with your first guest. It will take a while, and he will get into prison, and he will brag, and he will lecture, and he will pontificate, and he will have people in his prison facility with him that will look up to him and will admire him.

COATES: It almost sounds like a plot line from like "Silence the Lamb" to have someone go in and try to pick the brain of somebody so sick in this way and the idea of him bragging.

I mean, Misty, the victims' families, they were split on the plea deal. Split is being generous. The Goncalveses, they wanted the death penalty. The Kernodles wish Kohberger had been forced to detail his crimes. The Mogens and the Chapins, they are wanting answers, but they are also trying and hoping to move on in their lives as well, remembering and honoring their loved ones. Here's what the lead prosecutor said about all of that split today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL THOMPSON, PROSECUTOR, LATAH COUNTY: We accept and recognize that not everybody agrees with the decision we made. But this isn't a popularity contest. And we made what we thought was the most appropriate decision under the law and on the facts to give this case closure in a sense it would never be realized otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: We're just hearing him say it's not a popularity contest. It's a difficult reminder for people. The prosecution, they're not private counsel for victims. They don't work for the victims specifically and personally. They work on behalf of justice and what has happened. But it's really the jurisdiction, which is a hard pill to swallow, for so many people.

But why do you believe the prosecutors opted for this deal and they -- and made the statement of -- that it wouldn't have been realized otherwise?

[23:19:57]

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: So, Laura, listening to what prosecutors laid out today, which was really the path to the plea deal, that prosecutors were basically on the eve of trial. This trial was ready to start in just --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

MARRIS: -- a couple of weeks. And they were keyed up and they were ready to go. And it was the defense that actually came to them and made the overture to discuss a plea deal. And that's when they came to the table and spoke to the victims' families and ultimately made decision in their prosecutorial discretion to plead this out, take death penalty off the table. And Laura, it is a tough call.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

MARRIS: But remember, anything can happen at trial. And this gave finality. Something that the lead prosecutor, Bill Thompson, said, when this door closes and you see Bryan Kohberger walking out in his shackles, this is closure. This is the case being over -- allowing the families to put it behind them.

Obviously, there was tension with some of the families about information that was withheld throughout the process, which I think was part of the issue with the plea deal. But ultimately, it was something that prosecutors determined was in the best interest.

COATES: The families wanted input. They wanted notice. But perhaps they thought it might compromise notice to the jury population. But you're right, there is no opportunity to appeal this final decision. Thank you, everyone, for your insight.

We've got so much more ahead tonight, including a new theory on a potential motive. Was Kohberger inspired by another killer? Well, the author of an explosive new book on the case will join me with what she has uncovered next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Why did he do this? I mean, you realized that Bryan Kohberger was not required to explain or give a motive as any part of the plea agreement to avoid trial, let alone avoid the death penalty. Not that there would ever be some rational or good enough answer to take someone's life. But why did Kohberger murder these four college students? Not even knowing has been so painful for these families, painful for the community, and a source of deep frustration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) S. GONCALVES: If you got those details, then, you know. It's simple as just saying I did it solo. Would have been, you know, valuable, I think. And, you know, we stand by the whole -- negotiation wasn't -- wasn't justice. It was just a -- it was a shortcut. And we said from the very beginning, we're not interested in a shortcut for our daughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Prosecutors say Kohberger didn't even know the victims. I don't mean he didn't know them well. No. I mean, he never even met them? And there were no signs of sexual assault.

My next guest, she interviewed more than 300 people to find any possible clues, author and investigative journalist Vicky Ward, who's the co-author of "The Idaho Four: An American Tragedy" with James Patterson. You have to read this book.

Vicky, it is so terrifying to think that Kohberger did not have any connections to the victims. The prosecution says so. But your book uncovered a possible link between him and Madison Mogen. What?

VICKY WARD, AUTHOR, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, that's what the families and the close friends believe. And, you know, I think the biggest reason, Laura, is that, you know, I went to that house and I parked my car exactly where Bryan Kohberger would have had to have parked it. There was only one spot where you could see through the trees, into the backyard, and into the sliding deck of the house. There's only one bedroom that you really had a clear view into from that vantage point. And it was Maddie Mogen's.

And, you know, neighbors of the house would come out to their cars parked at the back and smile at night. They would see Maddie's bedroom window. She would be lit up. She would be at her vanity, putting on her makeup, curling her hair. But that was the window that there was a direct view on. And her name, Maddie, was in the window along with a pair of pink cowboy boots.

COATES: Hmm.

WARD: And he went straight. We do know that he went straight into the house. He went straight up to the top floor and straight into her bedroom.

And the chance that he was surprised to find Kaylee Goncalves there is very high because Kaylee Goncalves had moved out of that house days, if not weeks, before and was actually living at home in Rathdrum with her parents. And she was only there that weekend because she happened to have come back to show Maddie Mogen, her childhood best friend, her new car.

So that is the basis on which the friends and the families believe that Maddie was the target. He was startled to find Kaylee there. He comes down the stairs.

Xana is, unfortunately, still up. She has just received a door-dash delivery. They tussled. Ethan Chapin was asleep in the bed behind her, but he was a big, big athletic guy and, presumably, Kohberger stabbed him as a precautionary measure.

You know, why -- why was he targeting Maddie Mogen? You know, we don't know.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WARD: But what we do know and what we say in the book is that, you know, this man was one, a student of criminals.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WARD: He had -- and two, he was a misogynist.

[23:29:55]

And one of the things that was going on at Washington State University in the days and weeks running up to the murders was that he was basically imploding professionally. He was going to lose his funding because his misogynistic views were blowing him up effectively. He kept being called in front of the administration for the way he talked to women, talked about women, and his creepy behavior, following them out to the car.

COATES: Well, you mentioned one thing, Vicky, too. A study -- a student of criminals as well. I mean, there was one person, Elliot Rodger, you write in the book about maybe parallels between him and that person. That was somebody who killed six people at, I believe, UC Santa Barbara in 2014, motivated over anger at being a virgin.

And you write -- quote -- "No one knows that, like Rodger, Bryan is a virgin who hates women. Like Rodger, he visits the gun range. And, like Rodger, he goes to a local bar and tries to pick up women." Why do you believe he was inspired by Rodger?

WARD: Well, we do know that in his psychology class at DeSales University, Katherine Ramsland, well-known criminologist, his professor, showed the class of the video that Elliot Rodger made. He filmed himself sitting in his BMW, this 21-year-old student, announcing that he was going to go out and kill the sorority woman who had rejected him. He sent this video to his therapist, who sent it to his mother two minutes before he went out on this killing spree, and then killed himself.

COATES: Hmm.

WARD: So, we know that Bryan Kohberger was exposed to that. As it happens, Elliot Rodger writes in the journal, he wrote about his life, that he was particularly fixated on a childhood friend of his called Maddy (ph), slightly different spelling, and it was -- and he was targeted on the A-P sorority.

But there are distinct parallels and we know that Bryan Kohberger knew all about Elliot Rodger. And we know --

COATES: Yeah.

WARD: -- that he was -- he was -- he had a very, very negative view of women. He told a classmate that he believed women belonged in the kitchen and the bedroom, not on campus, and that he could -- quote, unquote -- "have any woman he wanted."

COATES: Vicky Ward, what you described is nothing short of terrifying. The book details so much more. Thank you for joining.

WARD: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: Still ahead, the newly released details tonight on how Kohberger has been spending his time in jail. The bizarre habits that we're now just learning about in just what awaits him inside of a maximum-security prison, and it just might surprise you what that is.

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[23:35:00]

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COATES: Bryan Kohberger will spend the rest of his life in prison. And new documents reveal some of his habits behind bars. Inmates at the Latah County, Idaho jail where Kohberger was first held after the murders say that Kohberger washed his hands dozens of times a day, took showers that lasted up to an hour, was awake almost all night, and talked to his mother for several hours every day.

Well, now, he is moving to the Idaho Maximum Security Institution. It is the only maximum-security prison in the state, a place that Idaho says houses the most dangerous and the most violent male criminals.

With me now, Kevin Corson, owner of the Idaho Bonding Company, and Larry Levine, a former federal inmate, director and founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants, also the author of "Prison Politics 101."

Kevin, let me begin with you because Kohberger seemed uncomfortable being housed in the county jail, it seems. What will conditions be like inside of Idaho's maximum-security prison, especially for an inmate like Kohberger?

KEVIN CORSON, OWNER, IDAHO BONDING COMPANY: So, he's a little bit of a different guy. He sounds like he's obsessed with keeping clean and germs and stuff like that and washing his hands so much.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CORSON: Latah County Jail is a pretty nice and clean facility. I've heard stories about the maximum-security prison out there having problems with urine and feces on the walls, urine on the floor, feces in the vents, stuff like that. That's kind of concerning for his -- for his situation. But he's going to -- he's going to notice really quick that it's a pretty lonely place.

COATES: Well, you have to wonder, obviously, trading with the death penalty. Obviously, he wanted to live. But living in the way you're talking about might shock so many people. Are conditions very different for inmates who are spending life in prison versus those who, say, would have been on death row in that facility?

CORSON: It's pretty much the same. It's going to be the same for him pretty much. There are places in that facility that are segregated administratively, whether it be for their protection and stuff like that or disciplinary segregation. He's going to be in a cell 23 hours a day, just like a death row inmate, and that's something that he can expect to be for sure the same.

[23:40:00]

Other than that, he is going eat in his cell every meal for the rest of his life. He will not go to the chow hall, stuff like that. Same as the death row inmates. They eat in their cells.

COATES: Well, Larry, I mean, he, reportedly, have access at least to a T.V. and a tablet with music and movies, even email. Is that common for prisoners to have access to those types of privileges, given that he'll be in a cell, what, 23 hours a day?

LARRY LEVINE, FORMER FEDERAL INMATE, DIRECTOR AND FOUNDER OF WALL STREET PRISON CONSULTANTS, AUTHOR: Well, they give you something, but not all prisons have those. And they use these as administrative tools that if an inmate screws up, they can take it away from them.

Now, imagine this poor son of a bitch. Imagine you living in your bathroom for the rest of your life, and that's your existence. So, it's like -- it's very, very bleak for him. They can't let him into general population because somebody is going to take him out and kill him. So, that living in his bathroom, that is his life right there.

COATES: Will he be able to communicate with people on the outside? I mean, they talked about him talking to his mother, you know, several hours a day.

LEVINE: Well, hold on. That's a county jail setting.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

LEVINE: He was more general population there. He was milling around people. People there are waiting to go to trial. Now, he's in one of the most -- he's in the most dangerous prisons in the state of Idaho, and they say it's one of the most dangerous prisons in the United States. And There's no way this guy is going to get into GP.

My sources in the jailhouse rumor mill say that he's going to get some jailhouse justice. And you know what that means. Someone is going to stick him. And if they can get to him, they will, 100%. He does not have a popular crime at all.

COATES: I mean, obviously, he's in the custody of the Bureau of Prisons, Kevin. It's their responsibility to maintain the safety, even of the most despicable convicts. But is this specific type of crime, why is this specific type of crime, Kevin, possibly making him an even bigger target in general population?

CORSON: Yeah. So, that's -- that's interesting. You know, the Bureau of Prisons does have the obligation to keep people safe.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

CORSON: They have to keep other prisoners safe from him. But I think, more importantly, he has to be kept safe because there is that target on his back, like you mentioned, the crime he committed, he murdered women. And in prison, that's a target on your back right there. And people in prison don't forget that kind of stuff. It's the same as if you hurt a child. And that's something --

LEVINE: One hundred percent.

CORSON: -- that he's definitely going to don't want at all.

COATES: Kevin Corson, Larry Levine, thank you both.

CORSON: Thank you, Laura.

LEVINE: Certainly.

COATES: Still ahead, internet sleuths dedicating hours and hours of their lives for clues and answers in this case. So, how did a small town become a complete obsession online? That conversation is next.

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[23:45:00]

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COATES: As you know, the Kohberger case has captivated the public's interest, from the murders in the middle of the night, to the manhunt to find the killer, to the moment he was first arrested, sparking a huge wave of media coverage and true crime documentaries and podcasts.

But before the judge sentenced Kohberger to life without parole today, he made one thing clear: He wants all of this attention to come to an end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HIPPLER: And in the end, the more we struggle to seek explanation for the unexplainable, the more we try to extract a reason, the more power and control we give to him. In my view, the time has now come to end Mr. Kohberger's 15 minutes of fame. I know there has been concern about him collaborating on books or movies or other media projects, and I truly hope that someone does not stoop to affording him this spotlight that he desires in the name of clicks, royalties or profits.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Joining me now is Joel Waldman. He is the host of the nightly YouTube true crime talk show "Surviving the Survivor," and he also sat just feet from Kohberger inside the courtroom today.

I want to talk about that vantage point that you have because you were able to see him, able to see his mother. You were one of the people who were able to even secure a spot after having camped out all night to do. Take me inside that courtroom. What was it like watching him, watching his mom?

JOEL WALDMAN, YOUTUBE HOST: Well, thanks for having me, Laura. Obviously, a very bittersweet day. We had to line up yesterday at nine local time because there was such interest in this, as you can imagine.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WALDMAN: Out there all night. We finally get brought up to kind of a secondary overflow room. And then, eventually, about 30 to 40 of us were brought into the courtroom. And you could just feel the tension from the moment you got in.

I happened to be sitting in the back row, but on an aisle, so I had an unobstructed view, about 12 feet from Bryan Kohberger. I mean, a dead- on shot. If you're looking at the video, straight out of his right ear is where I was. And right before him, maybe 7 to 8 feet, was Bryan Kohberger's mother, Maryann, and his sister.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WALDMAN: And I have to tell you, you know, T.V. is one-dimensional. I've been watching them since this case broke. But then to be in the courtroom, he looked meek, he looked thin. He did not look like an imposing figure.

[23:50:01]

He looked like a scared guy in there. And it really kind of -- it was such an interesting revelation for me because all along, the media has created this sort of mystique about this quadruple killer. And don't get me wrong. You know, he's 6 foot 1, I think, but he just did not come across the way I was expecting him to. Much more sort of frail, gaunt. And -- and his eyes, I felt scared.

COATES: Tell me about what was happening on the table in front of them. Some sort of a drawing?

WALDMAN: Yeah. This is something that no one really picked up on. I didn't pick up on it. I didn't have kind of a downward angle to see the table.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WALDMAN: But in the overflow room, I had a bunch of reporter friends. I've been doing this for many years. I got to be honest. Nothing has ever impacted me like this except for maybe the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting where I had to go see those little body bags.

But on his table, yeah, you're looking at it there, what's being described as a black heart. We don't know if he drew this, if it is an image. And according to some reports, he was not allowed to, you know, write and draw inside the courtroom. So, apparently, Anne Taylor (ph) made a photocopy, which is why it looks like that. And he had this sitting in front of them.

I asked Anne Burgess (ph) on my show tonight on YouTube, "Surviving the Survivor," about this. She helped create the field of criminal profiling --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WALDMAN: -- and essentially said this was sort of like -- almost like a pacifier for him to remind him who he is. He's this guy with this black heart and was just a reminder as he was getting pelted by these victim impact statements.

COATES: To remind himself. I mean, I can only think. I don't even want to get into the mind of someone like that. But it is a way to remind him to what? Be emotionless? I mean, he -- tell me what it was like. I mean, you say he was frail and seemed more meek. But he didn't seem to flinch during these extraordinarily emotional victim impact statements. He was just looking like he was watching paint dry.

WALDMAN: Yeah. One thing is, you know, they -- a lot of people believe that maybe Maddie Mogen was a target. When his -- her family was up there, I saw him a little more intent, listening to what they were saying.

But, of course, the person who stole the show today was Alivea Goncalves, who got up there and just eviscerated him. And when she started calling him loser and nobody, I can see that, you know, that bone in the jaw -- in the jawline literally just clenching up.

And then when, you know, other people got up there who said, look, you embarrassed your own family, then you heard just outburst of tears from Maryann Kohberger. Look, this is not a popular opinion, but they're victims also. She was sobbing, as was his sister.

The courtroom, I'd never heard that much crying in a courtroom. And one thing I haven't heard as well, applause. Usually, a judge does not allow applause.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

WALDMAN: But almost after every statement given, there was a round of applause in that courtroom.

COATES: Joel Waldman, thank you for giving us that insight into that moment. I'll be sure to make sure I listen to your interview, especially today on your show. Thank you. We'll be right back with the families of the victims and their own words.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Before we go tonight, it's only right that someone else gets the last word. I'll leave you with some of the words from the victims' families, the survivors, as they address the man who killed their loved ones for the last time before he began four consecutive life sentences, one for each of the lives he stole.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MORTENSEN: I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable. I couldn't be alone. I had to sleep in my mom's bed because I was too terrified to close my eyes. Terrified that if I blinked, someone might be there.

CARA NORTHINGTON, MOTHER OF XANA KERNODLE: I pray that before this life is over, that you ask our Lord and savior in your heart to forgive you. I do pray for that. But after today, I wash my hands of you and you are no longer a thing.

DAVIS: You took our children. You are going to suffer, man. I'm shaking because I want to reach out to you. But I just -- I hope you feel my energy. Okay? Go to hell.

S. GONCALVES: The world is watching because of the kids, not because of you. Nobody cares about you. You're not worth the time, the effort to be remembered. In time, you will be nothing but two initials, forgotten to the wind, no visitors, nothing more than initials on an otherwise unmarked tombstone.

LARAMIE: As for the defendant, we will not waste words nor will we fall into hatred and bitterness. Evil has many faces, and we now know this. But evil does not deserve our time and attention. We are done being victims. We are taking back our lives.