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Laura Coates Live
New Evidence Against Suspected Charlie Kirk Assassin; Charlie Kirk's Widow Speaks In Public For First Time; Utah Governor Declares Social Media Is A "Cancer" On Society. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired September 12, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And before we go, a quick programming note. This week, comedian Mae Martin and New York Times climate reporter David Gelles join "Have I Got News for You," and it airs Saturday night at 9:00 on CNN.
And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." You can catch me any time on your favorite social media X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, after 33 hours, Charlie Kirk's suspected assassin is now in custody. The new evidence coming to light about his plot, his politics, and his past. Plus, Charlie Kirk's now widow speaking in public for the very first time, the emotional tribute to her husband and the political message she delivered to his fans and to his critics. And later, log off and touch grass. The governor of Utah makes an appeal to the country about the cancer of social media. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
The assassination of Charlie Kirk led to a 33-hour manhunt, anguish for his family and supporters, and questions about political violence in this country. Well, tonight, the man accused of pulling the trigger is in custody. Now, here's what we know so far.
His name? Tyler Robinson, 22 years old, and he's being held on multiple felonies, including aggravated murder. Right now, he's not talking to investigators. But we are learning just how they caught him. And it wasn't just the public in general that helped, it was his family.
A law enforcement official says Robinson's own father confronted his son after seeing these images released by police. But when his dad urged him to turn himself in, Robinson, apparently, told him he'd rather kill himself than surrender. His dad persuaded him to talk to a youth pastor, which the source says led to his confession and eventual arrest.
Police are now trying to figure out what exactly motivated him to kill Charlie Kirk. The details, still murky. So far, we're told Utah's governor is saying that one of Robinson's relatives told investigators that he had become more political in recent years. That relative also says at a -- at a family dinner, Robinson mentioned that Charlie Kirk was coming to Utah and that he didn't like Kirk's viewpoints. CNN also spoke with a man who worked with Robinson as recently as just two weeks ago, describing him as -- quote -- "a little abnormal, didn't talk to anyone. He was a quiet dude, and he didn't like talking unless spoken to. He stays in the back, and I knew from word of mouth from coworkers that he was not fond of Trump or Charlie Kirk, obviously."
Utah's governor also revealed what was engraved on the bullet casings that were found with the rifle connected to the shooting. The phrases reference all kinds of memes. One of them reads, hey, fascist, catch. The governor says that message speaks for itself.
But one researcher says it could also reference a video game. Robinson is not affiliated with a political party. He hasn't voted in either of the last two general elections. In fact, he wouldn't have been old enough even to vote until past the 2020 election. Governor Cox says there's still a lot of digging that they have to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): I think maybe what stands out is that nothing stands out the way you would normally expect. You know, this is a -- this is a good family, normal childhood, all of those things that -- that -- that you would hope would never lead -- lead to something like this. But, certainly, there was a radicalization that happened in a -- in a fairly short amount of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: The lack of answers is not making the grief any easier for his family and friends. His wife, Erika, sadly now his widow, spoke just a short time ago, addressing the public for the first time since her husband was killed, standing at a podium next to an empty chair in his studio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIKA KIRK, CHARLIE KIRK'S WIDOW: Now and for all eternity, he will stand at his savior's side wearing the glorious crown of a martyr. Charlie loved -- loved life. He loved his life. He loved America. When I got home last night, Gigi, our daughter, just ran into my arms. And I talked to her, and she said, mommy, I missed you. I said, I missed you, too, baby. She goes, where's daddy?
[23:05:00]
What do you tell a three-year-old? She's three.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I want to go to CNN's Ed Lavandera, who is in Utah, outside the Utah County Jail, the suspect is in tonight. Ed, authorities are sifting through a trove of evidence as we sit here speaking today. Can you tell me what you've learned about how the suspect's arrest even happened? ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what is fascinating to think about is that -- we explained and kind of go through these details -- is that it's exactly 24 hours ago, at this very moment last night, that Tyler Robinson and his family or his -- or Tyler Robinson's family is going through the realization that the photos and video images that had just been put out an hour before now was their own son, was the suspect that the authorities here in Utah were looking for.
And that is when, we understand, the father confronted his son about it, urged him to turn himself in, and the son said he'd much rather kill himself than turn himself in. That's when, we understand, that the father reached out to a family friend and tried to get him to talk to his son to get himself -- to turn himself in. That person ended up contacting authorities.
And that is how, um, all of this unfolded so quickly in the hours after last night's press conference because it was really clear last night, Laura, that after authorities had put out the video and the pictures, that they really had no clue as to who this might -- who the suspect might be or where he might be, and they were hoping that the dissemination of those photos and those videos would catch the eye of somebody and cause them to say something. That's exactly what unfolded --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
LAVANDERA: -- is that -- that information came in and led authorities to this family in south -- in the southwest corner of Utah. And within a couple of hours, he was already brought here and booked into the county jail here in Utah County where he sits tonight without bond.
COATES: Little did they know these pictures would result in just that moment. Ed Lavandera, thank you.
I want to dig into all of the leads that authorities are piecing together, even with the suspect. Former FBI special agent, Daniel Brunner. Also here, former FBI profiler, Gregg McCrary. Thank you both.
Daniel, I want to begin with you because sources are telling CNN that the suspect is not talking to investigators. How do they get him to talk? Do they need him to talk given his statements to someone else?
DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Well, all those statements, everything that he has said, all the statements to his father, all those statements with the exception of the pastor, all the statements are -- are admissible. They can be received by the law enforcement. Those would be part of the investigation.
But they are going to proceed this investigation. Whether he admitted it or not, they're going to proceed moving forward as if this is going to trial, this is going to go all the way to the end.
And they're going to prepare for this. They're going to be working for the state with the D.A. and as long as well with the U.S. attorney's office if they're going to be parallel federal charges.
They're going to assume that this is going to go all the way. They're going to collect every piece of evidence. They're going to do every interview, family members, co-workers, digital evidence. They're going to completely go up and down to find out where this pathway to violence began and what caused that pathway to violence to commence, where he brought it to this day, where he conducted the attack.
COATES: Of course, the requirement to prove beyond a reasonable doubt would include all that you have just said as well in order to build that case.
Gregg, the governor spoke about the inscriptions found on some of the casings. One of them reading, hey, fascist, catch. Another making a reference to a video game. Can you read anything into these messages as they're trying to build and firm up this case?
GREGG MCCRARY, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Possibly. We have to be careful. We don't overinterpret this stuff because these guys are idiosyncratic and he may have his own meanings that we just can't interpret it. I mean, we're always trying to overlay a rationale -- rationale for irrational behavior. And sometimes, we just can't do that. It's just -- just what it is.
Some seem obvious like fascist, catch. You know, like, you're supposed to catch the bullet. You know, things like that. But this is a typical lone actor targeted violence. Certainly, the investigation will pursue to make sure there's no one else involved. But it seems very typical to lone actor violence. It is planned, its predatory, it's cold, its emotionless, and it's targeted. They have -- it's all grievance-based, whatever that -- that personal grievance may be.
COATES: Let me ask you quickly, too, on that point, Gregg. You heard the governor. And other people have said statements similar to this when there has been an act of violence. They point to the family as if the person -- this is not who you expected to commit. A normal child. I think the phrase was used. A family life.
[23:10:01]
Do those things factor in when you're trying to create and understand the profile or are these things that societally, we are over inclusive about?
MCCRARY: Uh, some of each, really. The problem or the challenge, I use kind of a metaphor, it's -- it isn't as though we're looking for the needle, trying to find the needle in the haystack.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MCCRARY: We're trying to predict which piece of hay is going to become a needle because are they just venting and making statements or is this a threat? Any threat assessment is challenged to discern and distinguish between someone who makes a threat and someone who poses a threat. They're not always the same. Some people make threats. The average school bomber, the threatening called -- you know, there's no bomb. But other people pose a threat and they never make a threat. So that's the challenge for law enforcement is, to distinguish between those two.
COATES: That's really interesting, to think about that in particular way. I mean, Daniel, we're hearing about the -- obviously, the infancy of the investigation. He has just been in custody within the last 24 hours at this point. You've got a lot of conversation around the handling of the investigation.
"The New York Times" reporting tensions are growing inside the bureau after director Kash Patel called out agents for failing to give him timely information and saying that he would not tolerate any more -- quote -- "Mickey Mouse operations." How do you think the FBI has handled this investigation so far?
BRUNNER: I have to say, putting aside all of those, that situation with this -- with the SES (ph), the senior command, SAC (ph), and with the director, this has been handled excellent because I know. I've been -- I was a case agent for 20 years.
COATES: Hmm.
BRUNNER: Those three agents in Salt Lake City, they're handling exactly how they're supposed to be. They're coordinating with their local partners at the supervisory level and (INAUDIBLE). They are trained for this. They coordinated with local law enforcement. There was no problem. I didn't foresee -- I didn't see any problems. I saw good communication between the -- with -- with everyone there. And, you know, I know those -- a lot of those agents.
COATES: Hmm.
BRUNNER: They were working hard through the night. So, I didn't see any problems there.
COATES: That's good to know.
BRUNNER: That being aside, investigations are conducted via social media and that's all. I'll leave it at that.
COATES: Intriguing. Daniel Brunner, Gregg McCrary, thank you both.
Is it an open and check case? I want to talk to our legal minds here, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson, and former attorney for President Trump and the former chief of the DOJ Organized Crime and Gang Section, Jim Trusty.
The way that I have prefaced this conversation might give people pause, thinking about a confession that was allegedly made as well as somebody who's not talking and, of course, the public's help.
But Jim, let me ask you. Um, we haven't seen the charges yet. Prosecutors plan to file charges, I think, on Tuesday. That's how they can do it in Utah. The governor said they're going to seek the death penalty as part of the state. Uh, the fact that he turned himself in, does that change anything for the calculus of the prosecution? JIM TRUSTY, FORMER CHIEF, DOJ ORGANIZED CRIME AND GANG SECTION: Well, not dramatically. But, look, it has a flavor that could be helpful for the defense eventually in a death penalty trial. And one of the pivotal issues that drives all of this is premeditation. And in a political assassination, having this level of premeditation and kind of the flippant attitude about writing things on bullets, those are powerful facts that will overcome an awful lot of defense mitigation.
But if they want to try to spin a little bit of mitigation for the defense at some point, like in the penalty phase of a death penalty trial, they can say, look, he didn't do suicide by cop, he didn't endanger other people, he listened to his dad, he listened to a minister, he turned himself in.
But he's got to be careful because if the statements to his father, for instance, include any element that show a lack of remorse, the same kind of flippancy of saying LMAO on a bullet, which he did on one of the casings, that's going to come back in spades. That's going to hurt brutally in the penalty phase if the defense is trying to build any sort of mitigation.
COATES: On that mitigation front, Joey, I mean, I mean, if there is even a plea deal on the table, whatsoever, to try to -- we've seen recently in a case, obviously, in Idaho where the death penalty came off of the penalty and a plea ensued. The families, in some cases, were furious about the absence of a trial. But that is obviously a leverage card that at least the defendant would want to try to play here. But if that's not even offered by the prosecution, what is the mitigation? What could the defense be?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, Laura, good to be with you and Jim. Before getting to that, obviously, you know, in America, you should have the ability to speak your mind.
[23:15:02]
And as a defense attorney, I think you need to look to jury in the eye and say that, right? The reality is that everyone should be able to have their point of views no matter how abhorrent they argue, and they shouldn't die for it.
Ultimate issue is what facts and evidence would establish the guilt of this particular individual. So, presuming they do have the evidence that would be such that he would be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you do have a confession, you do have video surveillance showing him running away and that is absolutely him, you do have the issue with respect to a confession, you do have the matching of the actual weapon to him, etcetera, then the facts are compelling.
And now, you get to the issue if in an event, like you said, Laura, there's no particular plea, and it's in the hands of the prosecutors as to whether they will, and that's a discretionary decision that may not be. Even if the defendant says, hey, I'll plead guilty, just spare my life, they may say, no, we're going forward, we're going to find you guilty, and we want your life. And so, it'll turn on the issue of what we call mitigation. What does that mean in English? Mitigation means you have to look at the totality of the individual. You're not as good as you ever are on your best day. You're not as bad as you were on your worst day. And so, what redeeming qualities or factors does he have in his life such that a jury, assuming we get there, were way, way, way apart from that?
COATES: Right.
JACKSON: But what real factors have that would really mitigate against you being put to death? And there will be a lot of evidence with respect to upbringing, with regard to how he could have been radicalized, with regard to him being a normal person, and then it will be up to a jury to make that determination at that time.
COATES: And, of course, we're all unclear -- the extent of a confession, what was precisely said, and to whom. Father, a pastor, how that might come into evidence ultimately. Jim, I want you to listen to what the president said when asked what's going to happen to the suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I hope -- he is going to be found guilty, I would imagine. And I hope he gets the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Of course, certain remarks are going to prompt a motion saying that he's not going to get a fair trial and all those things. Those aren't always and usually not granted. Maybe even attempt to try to change venue, although I don't see how that'd be possible here. But do you expect that -- that came from the president -- will have any impact on how a judge ultimately sees and views where a trial would be?
TRUSTY: I doubt it. I mean, look, it's pretty routine in death penalty cases to worry about pretrial publicity. And this is on the high end, right? This is a case that at least right now commands a ton of attention.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
TRUSTY: But the case law generally says you got to try to pick a jury before you just prejudge you can't do it in that county. And so, that's a function of the voir dire process of the jury selection process. Undoubtedly, there'll be questionnaires that are sent out to potential jurors that address things like press coverage. He can't avoid -- I mean, you have to be a bit of a cave dweller to say you didn't know anything about this case.
COATES: Yeah.
TRUSTY: The question is, even if you've heard a lot of media, even if you've heard from political figures, can you put that aside and judge the case on the evidence presented in court?
There are going to be people that are disqualified no matter what, saying it's too emotional, it's too brutal, I love Charlie Kirk, whatever your -- you know, your theory. There is a lot of reasons why jurors will get kicked out for having predisposed notions.
But generally speaking, you can find people that say, yeah, I know enough about the media, I know enough about political figures where I can put that aside and do my duty in court. You got to try that first.
So, again, as Joey said, we're, you know, miles away from jury selection. We could be a year or two away from that. And I think even if there's still a lot of hot press at that point, it's uphill for the defense to ever get the venue changed.
COATES: Something tells me, Joey, Jim, we will talk a lot more. Thank you both.
Still ahead, there is more from the widow of Charlie Kirk and her plans to make sure both his fans and his critics never forget who he was and what he built. Plus, the president was asked a defining question in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder. How do we fix this country? I want you to hear his answer next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Charlie Kirk's widow speaking out for the first time, vowing to keep his movement alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK: If you thought that my husband's mission was powerful before, you have no idea. You have no idea what you just have unleashed across this entire country. In this world, you have no idea. You have no idea the fire that you have ignited within this wife. The cries of this widow will echo around the world like a battle cry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: President Trump's tone, quite different today. Here he is talking about how to bring the country together amid the political chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: How do we fix this country? How do we come back together?
TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you something that's going to get me in trouble, but I couldn't care less. The radicals on the right, oftentimes, are radical because they don't want to see crime. The radicals on the left are the problem. And they're vicious, and they're horrible, and they're politically-savvy. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: If you need another perspective, here's Utah's governor who struck a far different tone.
[23:24:57]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COX: We can return violence with violence. We can return hate with hate. And that's the problem with political violence, is it metastasizes, because we can always point the finger at the other side. And at some point, we have to find an off-ramp or it's going to get much, much worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Joining me now is presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. I'm so glad that you're here as we're all trying to contextualize and make sense and figure out ways forward by looking at the past as well. I mean, the difference between the president's statements and the Utah governor, very stark. Your thoughts?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yeah, it couldn't be more night and day, and I -- I think the governor of Utah did a much more appropriate job. This is a time to heal our country. It was very traumatic week because what happened to Mr. Kirk coincided with 9/11. We are remembering all of those people who died, you know, during George W. Bush's presidency. So, it has been a lot of video of death and destruction in America. And I think, as the weekend is here now, people are very chilled by it.
I agree that Charlie Kirk is going to go down as a martyr, and he is going to be a hero for conservatives and many other Americans. I suspect President Trump will continue to try to talk about him. For example, a garden of statues in South Dakota, heroes that he's going to do. I suppose he will have Charlie Kirk part of that. So, he's now living on in American history but in a very grim way because he was so young, and one's heart can only bleed for not just the family but for America, and then those thousands of people who witnessed it.
COATES: So many people, obviously, look to our leaders in times of chaos, let alone crisis. The presidents often -- I mean, former President Biden was known in some parts as the empath-in-chief. President Obama had that moment where he was singing "Amazing Grace" at the funeral for those who were killed at Mother Emanuel. Former President Bush visited the Islamic Center in D.C. a week after the 9/11 attacks.
And people are comparing, obviously, between administrations. There's obviously nuance. Yet what guidance, and have you seen from a president in this era, what will that do, do you think, if past is any indication, if the leadership about unifying is not there?
BRINKLEY: Well, I think the real beginning of the grief counselor-in- chief, the chief mourner, really was started with Bill Clinton in April of 1995 Oklahoma City bombing when Timothy McVeigh drove that fertilizer truck and all of those people killed. President Clinton went to Oklahoma City and it was bipartisan Democrats, Republicans and talked about what that moment meant. President Trump could use the funeral of Charlie Kirk to talk about how this is unacceptable.
We can't go violence on violence, these versus ours, liberals versus conservatives, because that does create what I've been calling a kind of neo-civil war situation. And everything has been energized and exacerbated by social media and the immediacy of watching a -- basically a murder, a snuff --
COATES: Yeah.
BRINKLEY: -- an assassination on our phone.
COATES: Douglas, let me ask you, I mean, our nation has seen more than enough political violence, more than enough. In just the last year alone, I could give you a list of all the things that have happened. And I wonder, people are making comparisons, finding parallels to the 60s and other periods of political unrest. I think, in some ways, trying to find a way out. Do you know what could possibly break this fever if there's a way to even compare?
BRINKLEY: Well, you know, there -- we've had a big debate in our country about the Second Amendment. And every time there's a school shooting, we look at what we can do on the issue of guns. But it is not really gone anywhere. So, it might be time to really look at social media and look what allowing of young people in middle school and -- and that you have iPhones where they're looking at hate sites and inflammatory rhetoric. And, you know, everybody says nasty things from the comfort of their -- of the shield of their home.
And maybe, in a bipartisan way, we can start looking at how to protect young people from being radicalized, doesn't matter right or left, but from trying to teach a kind of civility, civics, fact-based story about America, what's going on right now. Instead of constantly grabbing on to misinformation or hate rhetoric, we have to teach tolerance. But you can't teach tolerance, if your mom and dad, if your kids got a hate mechanism in their hands.
[23:30:00]
COATES: Powerful, and one for me to reflect on as a parent. Douglas Brinkley, thank you so much.
BRINKLEY: Thank you, Laura.
COATES: The governor of Utah today making a diagnosis not unlike what you've just heard. He's saying social media is a cancer on our society. And tonight, we ask, how far has it spread? And might it be one area where America can agree? That conversation is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: In a political climate that feels more heated than ever, you're not alone if you feel like social media is playing a part in fanning those flames.
[23:35:00]
In just the last three days, millions of people have watched the gruesome video of Charlie Kirk being shot. And then there are the reactions. Hosts calling for retribution. Hosts celebrating Kirk's death. There is disinformation. There are conspiracies. There is fearmongering. And Utah Governor Spencer Cox, he is saying, it's time for a break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COX: We are not wired as human beings biologically, historically. We have not evolved in a way that we are capable of processing those types of violent imagery. This is not good for us. It is not good to consume. Social media is a cancer on our society right now. And I would encourage -- again, I would encourage people to log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a family member, go out and do good in your community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Joining me now is Imran Ahmed. He is a founder and CEO of the Center for Countering Digital Hate, the perfect person to speak with tonight. You know, everyone I know has seen the images or has tried to avoid seeing the images and video. Parents are wondering how much their kids have been exposed to. Do we have an accurate sense of just how much people are really discussing this issue? Are the algorithms deceiving us in some way?
IMRAN AHMED, FOUNDER AND CEO, CENTER FOR COUNTERING DIGITAL HATE: Well, the algorithms are fundamentally distorted. They make the fringes look bigger than they are, is the real problem that we have with them. We've actually just completed some research looking at the 20,000 top tweets, the most viewed tweets after Mr. Kirk was shot, and only -- only about 1.5%. So, you know, a tiny proportion were either calling for retaliatory violence or celebrating his death.
COATES: It's not the impression people have, though.
AHMED: Exactly, because the algorithms gave those a hundred million views. So, a tiny fringe of being amplified to the center. And what does that make us feel when we log on to our social media platforms? We're being flooded by both graphic video of the actual shooting itself, the tragic shooting.
We're also being presented with people calling for retaliatory violence or people celebrating. And it would be perfectly normal, therefore, to conclude, gosh, everyone -- everyone is really, really angry. People, everyone, everywhere is calling for violence, when the reality is 98.5% of posts, and I think 98.5% of Americans, just like Governor Cox was saying, just want this to stop.
COATES: And yet that is the essence of social media, for people to feel as though they're a part of a community and an echo chamber to feel validated that they feel something or that they might have an inkling towards something else. I mean, that -- if there is a fundamental distortion, then that is the heart of social media.
AHMED: Well, social media's original promise was meant to be to connect people. But, in reality, what it has become now is a way of -- of amplifying some voices and most voices. Most of us go on social media or post on social media. Truth is, our friends and families see it. But some voices are selected for amplification, and those are always the ones that engender the most emotional response.
So, we're looking at anger, we're looking at hate, we're looking at disinformation, things that engender a reaction. And what does that do? Bit by bit, over time, it starts to make the world look just that little bit more dangerous. It starts to create the conditions in which political violence almost seems justified, and that is not healthy.
COATES: What about China bots? Are they having a role in any of this?
AHMED: Well, possibly. We don't know for sure. Russia bots. And the only people that would know for sure are the platforms themselves. But Laura, as you know, when researchers like ourselves try to study these platforms, they get very annoyed with us.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
AHMED: They restrict access to data. They have in the past sued researchers, academics, even my own organization, for doing basic research to try and work out these things. Only they know exactly where these things are coming from, and they won't tell us. And that's why we at the Center for Countering Digital Hate, we've been calling for transparency.
COATES: Yeah.
AHMED: We've been asking for ways for ensuring in law that researchers and the government and law enforcement can get access to back data from these platforms so we can know, we can start to measure exactly how bad things are.
COATES: So, I don't want to be dismissive or sort of deflect and scapegoat simply social media. People do feel strongly about a number of very provocative issues. Um, is it a chicken versus the egg? Is it a suggestion that social media is merely distorting or amplifying or that the feelings don't exist? There seems to be a chicken versus the egg discussion happening.
[23:40:02]
AHMED: You know, it's really difficult to quantify. But we did some polling about two years ago now with children and adults in America and a couple of other countries looking at their belief in various different conspiracy theories. What we found was that the most conspiracist age group were actually 14 to 17-year-olds.
COATES: Hmm.
AHMED: The first generation to have been essentially educated, socialized, raised by algorithms, which tell them what is -- you know, that present information to them. And what we found was that kids who spent more time online, the more time you spent, the more likely you were to believe these conspiracy theories, these wild, hateful conspiracy theories like antisemitic conspiracy theories, anti-LGBTQ+, anti -- sort of anti-everything, anti-anti-antis. It's always about hating someone else, fearing them, and wanting to take vengeance against them.
COATES: That's scary. I have a 12-year-old. That window, so 14, is shocking to me, thinking about that. Makes me want to limit everything he sees. Imran Ahmed, thank you so much.
A quick programming note, this Sunday, "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" is going to focus entirely on political violence and the divisions tearing the country apart. You can watch it Sunday night at 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.
Up next, Chicago off the hook, at least for now, as Memphis braces for the National Guard to come in. What will it mean for the city? State Rep Justin J. Pearson joining me with his reaction next.
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: President Trump yet again saying, send in the troops. But not to Chicago, not to Baltimore, not New Orleans. Instead, he is now turning to Memphis, Tennessee, announcing today he'll be sending National Guard troops to fix what he calls a -- quote -- "deeply troubled city."
Memphis, represented by a Republican governor, a Democratic mayor, giving Trump slightly more leverage than he would have in, say, Chicago or Baltimore. Trump says the governor and mayor are happy for the help. But the mayor is disputing that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR PAUL YOUNG, MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE: I did not ask for the National Guard, and I don't think it's the way to drive down crime. However, that decision has been made.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): President Trump this morning on Fox & Friends said that you were happy about this. Would you say that statement is accurate?
YOUNG: Yeah, that -- that was -- that was an overstatement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm. The mayor did say that he would work with the National Guard. Republican lawmakers in Tennessee, including the governor, have also applauded Trump's decision.
Joining us now is Democratic State House Representative Justin J. Pearson. Representative, thank you for being here. I mean, you -- you heard that pause from the mayor. Clearly not thrilled about the idea, but saying that he would work with the National Guard. Do you plan to help in that effort?
JUSTIN J. PEARSON, MEMBER, TENNESSEE STATE HOUSE: Nobody is happy that the National Guard is going to be deployed to Memphis. This is nothing more than an authoritarian regime's action at the behest of a white supremacist president of the United States and governor who are abusing their authority against another majority Black city with Black leadership.
We do not want the National Guard to be in Memphis or in Shelby County. It's not what our constituents want. It is not how they want to deal with the issues that we are facing. If you want to deal with crime, let's address poverty. If you want to deal with gun violence, let's pass laws that are actually more just. But that's not what this administration or the folks at the Tennessee State House or governor have been willing to do.
COATES: I can appreciate your position, and yet there is pushback from many who would say some of what you are articulating, the idea of policy positions while needed, are much more of a long-term discussion. Would the National Guard provide even some semblance of crime reduction in the short run that you'd be behind?
PEARSON: I do not believe that the National Guard is going to actually even be able to police in the ways that some people might think they will be able to. We have not seen any facts, statistics, data that having the National Guard in our city would be in any way beneficial to our community.
But what we do know is it will increase fear. When the National Guard came to Washington, D.C., it increased also the amount of people from ICE who were in the communities. We do not want that fear. We do not want the militarized occupation of our streets and of our city. What we want is federal financial investment to the tune of billions of dollars to help us with education, help us eradicate poverty, help us to improve our community.
COATES: You know, I was speaking to somebody in the Chicago area. It was a representative who -- a city council, I believe it was, who was describing that although he was generally not in favor of the military presence, he thought that it might do good to be able to free up the local law enforcement to address some of the more readily felt crime.
Do you see a correlation at all that on the one hand, their presence might be helpful to law enforcement or is it simply, look, this is going to be a problem for the constituents who are not wanted, not needed, and find another way to do it?
PEARSON: There are no mayor, no elected officials to date, and not any of our chief of police or our sheriffs have said that this is going to be better for law enforcement activities.
COATES: Yeah. PEARSON: This is not intended to help us. This is to treat us as a political pawn of this administration to fabricate more lies about Black criminality and the inadequacy of Black leadership. And we have to be honest about what is happening here. Memphis and other cities are test case for this authoritarianism.
And when the next election comes and the National Guard is deployed to cities all across this country, when the next presidential election comes and the National Guard is deployed to all of our cities, we have to be realistic about those consequences for our democracy.
[23:50:11]
COATES: Let's talk about the fight back because, obviously, here in Washington, D.C., a very different dynamic and leverage. We're talking about a district, not a state, obviously. You're talking about no governor here being in any way behind it. No governor at all, frankly. The leverage is different. How do you intend as a state to fight back against it if the governor is behind it?
PEARSON: The governor's support of President Trump is deeply problematic and concerning. But we need everyone at our local level and state elected leaders like myself, including our congressmen, to step up in this moment to let our constituents and those who we represent know that this is not something that we support nor is this something that we're going to willingly stand for.
If the National Guard is coming to cut grass and pick up trash, that's one thing. But if they are coming to militarize our city to serve as some occupation authority on behalf of the Trump administration and the Trump troops, we do not need, we do not want that because that is not addressing the deep-seated and deep-rooted problems of inequality economically, socially or racially that we have in our city.
COATES: Are you in touch with other cities that have been threatened with or promised, depending on how you view it, with the military presence of a National Guard to coordinate a more coordinated response, perhaps litigation-wise or otherwise?
PEARSON: And so, our movement is connected and organized. We are talking to lawyers, we are talking to organizers in different cities as well who have faced this threat and who are currently -- are currently under occupation by the military to learn what tools we might have at our disposal.
One of the reasons that we know Trump is looking at Memphis in particular is because of the cases that the administration is likely going to lose in California, likely lose in Baltimore, Illinois. And so, the weaponization is allowed, more allowable because we have Republican governor and Republican leaders at our state house who are weak and cowards, and then to his will, but we are going to find and use every tool available to us to protect the people in our communities.
COATES: Representative Justin J. Pearson, thank you.
PEARSON: Thank you. Let's keep fighting.
COATES: All right. It has been undoubtedly a heavy week. A lot of awful news. So, how about we try to end this Friday night with just a little bit of escapism we all need? We'll have that for you next.
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[23:55:00]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE).
UNKNOWN: We're here to check out this meditation center because I'm going to live there for at least the next year.
UNKNOWN: You want to live in Taiwan?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, if you haven't seen "The White Lotus" produced by our sister company, HBO, or any of these shows up for a top prize at the Emmys, then you've got a lot of catching up to do this weekend. CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister sat down with host of the Emmys, Nate Barqatze, to see what we can expect to come this Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Have you watched all the shows?
NATE BARGATZE, HOST, EMMY'S: I've seen a lot of commercials of the show.
WAGMEISTER: Okay.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): If you're like Emmy host, Nate Bargatze, and haven't seen all the nominated shows, well, you might still watch the Emmy Awards for this.
WAGMEISTER: You're making a $100,000 donation --
BARGATZE: Yeah.
WAGMEISTER: -- to the Boys and Girls Club of America --
BARGATZE: Yes.
WAGMEISTER: -- which is amazing --
BARGATZE: Yes.
WAGMEISTER: -- that you're doing that.
BARGATZE: We hope we are.
WAGMEISTER: But there's a catch.
BARGATZE: There's a catch.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Bargatze says for every Emmy winner's acceptance speech that exceeds the allotted 45 seconds --
UNKNOWN: -- and perfect choice of music.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): -- the donation shrinks by $1,000 per second.
BARGATZE: Ouch. The positive, too, if they go under --
WAGMEISTER: Hmm.
BARGATZE: -- we will put money on top of it.
WAGMEISTER: Okay.
BARGATZE: So, I would prefer them not all go that under because that can get pretty expensive. The amount of money I give to Boys and Girls Club is totally up to all of Hollywood.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Either way, Bargatze can afford it. He's currently Billboard's number one selling stand-up comic in America. His tour grossed more than $80 million last year alone. For his first Hollywood hosting gig, he's getting advice from veterans like Nikki Glaser, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, and Conan O'Brien.
BARGATZE: They're all just kind of, like, you just got to be you and trust that you know what you're doing. Fortunately, I learned that in other settings. And so, I don't have to hopefully not learn it, you know, in front of Harrison Ford.
WAGMEISTER: Right.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Bargatze says, sure, he'll joke about Hollywood, but in his trademark polite style, like the cancellation of nominee Stephen Colbert's late-night show.
WAGMEISTER: Is that off-limits or are you going to address it?
BARGATZE: I think we'll say something, but it will be done in a fun, playful way.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): That family-friendly comedic style has helped the Tennessee native gain wide appeal in an era where comedy often divides audiences. Bargatze met his wife while working at Applebee's.
UNKNOWN: Welcome my daddy, Nate Bargatze!
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): And his daughter introduces him in many of his shows. His father was a magician and a clown.
WAGMEISTER: I have to ask. Did you have a fear of clowns growing up? Because a lot of kids do.
BARGATZE: I had a joke about, like, as I would say, have you ever been yelled at by a clown? Because I have. And it's pretty confusing to get yelled at by a guy that's got a smile painted on his face.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Bargatze doesn't fear the Emmy stage.
[23:59:58]
In fact, this star can't wait to be star-struck.
WAGMEISTER: Who are you excited to see?
BARGATZE: Ben Stiller, I'm excited to see.
WAGMEISTER: Well, "Severance" has the most nominations, so you will definitely meet Ben Stiller.
BARGATZE: Ben Stiller. We should cross paths.
WAGMEISTER: Yes.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Elizabeth Wagmeister, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: Elizabeth Wagmeister, my friend, thank you. And thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
