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Laura Coates Live

Kimmel: Illegal, Un-American To Force Shoes Off Air By Coercion; Emotional Jimmy Kimmel Praises Kirk's Widow In TV Return; Jimmy Kimmel's Return, By the Numbers; Trump Now Says Ukraine Can Win; Harris: 'Didn't Fully Appreciate' Need to Offer Contrast from Biden. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired September 24, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:00:26]

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to this second hour of Laura Coates Live. Our breaking news, Jimmy Kimmel breaking his silence. The comedian delivering an emotional and forceful opening monologue in his show's return. Kimmel said it was never his intention to make light of Kirk's murder and then defended the importance of free speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": What is important is that we get to live in a country that allows us to have a show like this. I've had the opportunity to meet and spend time with comedians and talk show hosts from countries like Russia, countries in the Middle East who told me they would get thrown in prison for making fun of those in power. And worse than being thrown in prison, they know how lucky we are here.

Our freedom to speak is what they admire most about this country. And that's something I'm embarrassed to say. I took for granted until they pulled my friend Stephen off the air and try to coerce the affiliates who run our show in the cities that you live in to take my show off the air. That's not legal. That's not American. That is un-American, and it is so dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But here's the thing. Millions of Americans wouldn't have been able to hear that on ABC even if they wanted to. Because two major owners of local ABC stations didn't air it, Nexstar and Sinclair. They're still boycotting Kimmel's show.

And now President Trump is weighing in. He posted on Truth Social shortly before the show aired, saying he can't believe ABC gave Kimmel his job back. He seemed to imply that he would sue ABC for his return, accusing Kimmel of being what he calls an arm of the DNC. He claims that would amount to a illegal campaign contribution.

One thing's for sure, though. The fallout over Kimmel's suspension and return doesn't look like it's going to be in the rearview mirror. It became a flashpoint. It remains a flashpoint over free speech in America. And the president seems to be adding fuel to the fire.

With me now, CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter, CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein and comedian and host of Stand up with Pete Dominick. Pete, Dominick.

Brian, I want to begin with you here because Kimmel, he's back on air. He's striking an emotional yet Matter of fact and forthright tone. Is this over?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: No, though this is just beginning. Because even though Kimmel's supposed to be and wants to be and tries to be a comedian, he doesn't really want this to be about him. He has been thrust into this bigger and frankly, more consequential role. He is acting tonight, and I think he will act in the days to come as a bit of a public servant, as an educator.

He's trying to talk about free speech rights, not for late night talk show hosts, but for all Americans. And he really went there with this monologue, with this lengthy and emotional monologue following a multi minute long standing ovation that was so loud, one of the audience members said it hurt their eardrums.

This was a comeback in every sense of the word for Jimmy Kimmel and very much supported and approved by ABC and parent company Disney.

So on the very same night that President Trump is threatening yet again to take action against ABC, once again, you know, in nonsensical ways, claiming that he could try to punish ABC for broadcasting comedy, for broadcasting satire. You have Kimmel standing up and saying, here's why dissent matters in America. Here's what makes America exceptional. This is a fight that he wants to have, Laura, and it's a fight that's not going away.

COATES: I mean, he used Brendan Carr's and President Trump's words against them, even quoting back, playing for the audience who was able to hear him about the ideas of free speech and beyond in this sort of marketplace of ideas. But, Pete, you know, I want people to hear a bit more of his first remarks. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMMEL: I want to thank the people who don't support my show and what I believe, but support my right to share those beliefs anyway, who I never would have imagined, like Ben Shapiro, Clay Travis, Candace Owens, Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul, even my old pal Ted Cruz, who, believe it or not, said something very beautiful on my behalf.

[00:05:00]

TED CRUZ, U.S. SENATE REPUBLICAN: I hate what Jimmy Kimmel said, I am thrilled that he was fired.

KIMMEL: Oh, wait, not that, the other part. CRUZ: But let me tell you, if the government gets in the business of

saying, we don't say what you, the media have said, we're going to ban you from the airwaves if you don't say what we like, that will end up bad for conservatives.

KIMMEL: I don't think I've ever said this before, but Ted Cruz is right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Pete, your impression.

PETE DOMINICK, COMEDIAN: That is amazing. Amazing. We're celebrating tonight the freedom of speech, especially if you don't like that speech. This is a huge moment. This is an inflection point. They were coming after comedians and journalists and anybody whose speech they don't like.

And for Jimmy Kimmel to come back tonight and do what he did and go hard against the President, against Brendan Carr and the way that he did, including his parent company, was courageous. It's brave. And frankly, Laura, it's exactly what I expect of Jimmy, of Stephen, and of comedians of their ilk who for years have been speaking truth to power and punching up and making fun of people who refuse to make fun of themselves.

I mean, this was, as Jimmy just said, I mean, he had millions more people watching as a result of the President making this happen. So, I think it's a really important moment for America tonight. And more people watched than probably ever before.

COATES: He talked about that the idea this might have backfired on Trump trying to cancel him, but he did go after Brendan Carr specifically, who was the beginning of the chain reaction. Listen to what he had to say, everyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMMEL: Brendan Carr is the most embarrassing car Republicans have embraced since this one, and that's saying something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: He went on to use Carr's words against him about freedom of speech and satire. Ron, and I wonder what your reaction is given over the past few weeks, we've seen this sort of tug of war between the FCC chair, Brendan Carr, Disney. You see a kind of methodical strategy unfolding. What is it?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, I think Trump, the Trump administration has been working systematically to suppress dissent and to weaken institutions that they believe can be an impediment to their agenda. And they've done it with a kind of a two track strategy.

One, top down, the kind of direct government threats that we saw from Brendan Carr. And we've seen this on all sorts of other areas. Law firms being told they will not have any more government contracts, research grants being cut off to universities, federal aid being cut to blue states and cities. Essentially using marshaling the power of the federal government directly to try to intimidate or coerce institutions that they view as adversarial. But that isn't all they are doing.

There is also a bottom up strategy that was evident in the Kimmel confrontation that is still in place, which is the administration has simultaneously encouraged institutions operating in red states, in effect to join arms with them in an effort to reduce the influence of, you know, institutions they believe that are fundamentally part of blue America.

So what you saw from Trump to Greg Abbott on gerrymandering or on the use of the National Guard, maybe sending the Texas National Guard in Illinois, that's essentially the argument that Brendan Carr made to Nexstar and Sinclair and other broadcasters operating in red states. He's essentially saying you should not accept this programming coming from Hollywood and new. That's exactly his quote, in effect, your loyalty is to red America to defend our values against this kind of alien force.

And that is still in play here, Laura, where you have these big chains that are saying no to airing the show. We'll see how that plays out in the long run, whether ABC and Disney decides to confront them. But the Trump administration is moving very systematically and as I say, from two directions at once.

COATES: Well, Brian, let's talk about that because Nextar, Sinclair, they're not airing this. I think it's one exception and one particularly blue area that they're allowed, so to speak, to actually play Kimmel. But if they keep this boycott up for the long haul, given of course they want something from the FCC, who might have the winning leverage here? I mean, and would ABC have any recourse?

STELTER: Right. On one level, the actions by local stations sort of matter less than ever in the streaming age because Kimmel's episode will be replayed on Hulu and on streaming services and it will be able to be viewed by anybody in the United States, even if the local ABC station in your market did not air the show tonight.

So that's part of the reality, but it is also a reality that Nexstar and Sinclair are aware of their government relationships, aware of the government approvals they need, especially Nexstar with the pending merger.

[00:10:07]

And I think this is a really illustrative example of the Trump administration's transactional nature. You know, I think for Americans who are not paying attention to the minute by minute news cycles every day, this is a really clear, vivid case study about how Trump and his allies wield power.

And I think it's broken through across America partly for that reason. So Nextar and Sinclair for now are preempting Kimmel's show. People who want to watch it will find other ways to watch it. But as Ron just said, these companies are signaling an allegiance to Trump and to red America through their programming decisions.

And this once again shows the fracturing of broadcast TV, the word broad coming out of the, you know, of the word broadcast, a continued split in that kind of programming. But someone like Kimmel is trying to speak against that. You know, he talked about what are American values versus anti American values.

COATES: I want to play --

STELTER: That's a really important commentary that I think will be replayed even for people who didn't see it --

COATES: Pete, I want to hear from you, Pete, on this point as well. But I want to play for you guys another part of what Kimmel had to say because he talked about President Trump as well, saying that, look, he can't take a joke. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMMEL: The President of the United States made it very clear he wants to see me and the hundreds of people who work here fired from our jobs. Our leader said celebrates Americans losing their livelihoods because he can't take a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Pete, what's your reaction?

DOMINICK: He's absolutely right. And for him to go hard at Trump, who's so thin skinned and such a tiny, insecure man who barely ever laughs, certainly not at himself. And I just want to say that we're debating whether or not these other channels, networks owners are going to continue to be able to not bring Kimmel. There's no way we're coming for them.

We're absolutely targeting their sponsors, their advertisers. My dad's in the other room. He lives in Syracuse. My parents live in Syracuse, Laura, their affiliate is not airing the show and he is pissed. They are going to cancel their cable. I say they last like three more days before they bring Kimmel back because they're -- the reason why they, Kimmel is back is because of money.

And we -- there's already these targeted campaigns I'm certainly going to be a part of because you cannot do this and you cannot mess with comedians in the United States of America. I promise you that felt.

COATES: Ron, You seem skeptical.

BROWNSTEIN: yes, no, no, I was just going to add, you know, in many ways, Trump, as I said in my column today, is kind of executing what Nixon in only kind of mused about in his darkest hours captured in the White House tapes. Nixon also talked about trying to mobilize the affiliates against the networks in the 1970s. But, you know, at that point, the ownership limits were one chain

could own seven stations. That was it. Now they can own 39 percent of the total audience. And that's what Nexstar is asking the FCC to list -- a lift, as Brian notes.

So, you know, economic consolidation, you know, also kind of paves the way for political manipulation here in the sense that, you know, there is more concentrated power.

But having said that, the fact that ABC and Disney were forced to back down so quickly, I think is indicative that there is a well of unease about the way basic civil rights and liberties are being eroded rapidly in this administration. You know, there are lots of institutions that have capitulated quickly. Universities, law firms, et cetera. There are others who have fought and largely have fought it up. You don't see the National Guard in Chicago yet. I mean, Harvard is in court. You know, some of the law firms are in court.

And I think the pushback against Disney here may make other big institutions think twice before taking what seems to be what Brendan Carr called the easy way of capitulating to what Trump is asking.

COATES: Brian, does ABC or Disney have a card up their sleeve?

STELTER: Do they have a what, Laura?

COATES: A card up their sleeve that they can play?

STELTER: I think what they have is the majority of Americans on their side. What I mean by that is approval ratings show Trump with roughly 40 percent approval. So if you're just looking at this from a cynical consumer standpoint, 6 out of 10 Americans are not on Trump's side. They certainly don't want to see free speech rights curtailed or infringed.

And so if you're Disney, you're probably siding with that bigger audience. Now, it is also true, and I want to recognize this tonight, there are many Trump voters who feel alienated by Hollywood, by American entertainment, cultural landscape. They are ticked off at companies like Disney. They don't feel represented by late night comics. That's all true. And that's still a problem. And it's still going to be a problem tomorrow. But at least for tonight, you see Disney siding with the majority opinion.

I think it is a problem. I think it is a problem. I think it causes further --

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Wait, wait. I can't hear both of you. Hold on, Pete. Let me finish this point. Go ahead, Brian. Finish your point. Then I'll turn to you. Pete, don't worry. Go ahead, Brian.

[00:15:08]

STELTER: I just think it pulls us further apart. I was just -- but I was -- by one more thing Kimmel said tonight. He said, Trump is gunning for NBC next. Trump is gunning for Kimmel and gunning for Myers. And he said, I hope you'll all be ten times as loud as you were this week. We have to speak out against this.

What a remarkable show of solidarity. Kimmel usually wants to see Fallon lower ratings. You know, normally they're competitors, but in this case, Kimmel is saying, let's all show solidarity because Trump is not going to stop. He is going to try to keep trying to squash dissent. And it's notable to hear that solidarity tonight.

COATES: Pete.

DOMINICK: I just think -- I'm just so tired of this. They don't see that the audiences don't see their point of view represented by late night comedians. I mean, call the Wambulans. There's plenty of comedians that are conservative, that are right-wing, that are everywhere. And this idea that somehow the late night comedians or network comedians are more liberal.

No, it has nothing to do with that. It really doesn't. It's about this man is such a caricature of a caricature. We make fun of people, we mock, we ridicule, we point, we judge. As comedians, that's what we do. If you don't like it, that's OK.

But the idea that Stephen Colbert or Jimmy Kimmel aren't funny, they're definitely representing the vast majority of the sense of humor of Americans. I promise you that. It's bared out in the data and I'm just so tired of, oh, so many Americans are turned off by Jimmy Kimmel and his comedy.

Please save it.

COATES: Or call the Wambulance. Pete. You know that come back to you. I met. There you go. I hear you all. No, but I see I can take the joke. That's the irony of the conversation. Thank you so much, everyone.

DOMINICK: Yes.

COATES: Hey, thanks, guys.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having us.

COATES: Much more on Kimmel's return after a short break and what the President's threat to sue might mean for the fight ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:21:30]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMMEL: On Sunday, Erika Kirk forgave the man who shot her husband. She forgave him. That is an example we should follow. If you believe in the teachings of Jesus as I do, there it was. That's it. A selfless act of grace, forgiveness from a grieving widow. It touched me deeply and I hope it touches many. And if there's anything we should take from this tragedy to carry forward, I hope it can be that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Jimmy Kimmel addressing Charlie Kirk's widow, Erika on his show tonight, saying that she sets an example for what we should be. I want to bring in tonight political commentator Karen Finney, former Democratic Congressman Joe Crowley.

I mean, that was quite a moment in a series of moments that everyone had been waiting to see what he would say specifically, how would he address it? Would he apologize? I don't think people expected him to bring up the widow Erika Kirk. And yet he did. What are your thoughts?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That was poignant. I mean, look, he was walking a very fine line between trying to show his own humanity while and give some insight into, here's what I was trying to say and here's what I really feel and believe.

But then also, you know, for all the people who came out over the weekend and who have protested. It couldn't just feel like a capitulation. So the other side of that balance is, you know, he made some jokes. I mean, were joking earlier. He could have just played a clip from Trump at the UN and that would have been perfectly fine. But he went ahead and, you know, took his digs at and you know, so I thought, and Trump.

And so I think he did a good job of balancing it. Look, he was in an impossible position. There was nothing that he was going to say that was going to be perfect for everyone. Everyone will find something that they liked or something that they didn't like. I think he did a really excellent job, quite frankly.

COATES: What do you think of the fact that he was, he thanked ABC. He talked about, you know, that they didn't have to put him back on air, that this is a huge company and corporation and he was very grateful, those were his words for them having done so and talked about that as well as talking about, you know, what the American people have to do if this threat faces other comedians, every other people as well.

What did you make of his discussion about ABC and Disney?

JOE CROWLEY (D) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR NEW YORK: Kind of like the domino effect. You know, we keep falling, these keep going. I think there clearly have been a lot of discussions going on over the last five days that's pretty clear. A lot of conversations within ABC itself. I think a lot of soul searching, maybe to some degree, maybe also doing some money counting and seeing if you're Disney World or Disneyland or ESPN or all these other assets that they have now that, you know, is this really the path we want to be going down?

Looking at colleges, looking at law firms, looking at other entities that kind of buckled. Are we going to buckle too? You know, I think the most outrageous thing about tonight's show is that they have a Canadian musician on tonight. I mean, yesterday was Bruce Springsteen's birthday. He could have had Bruce Springsteen. Bruce has no talent.

FINNEY: No talent.

CROWLEY: No talent.

FINNEY: Never mind, never mind.

CROWLEY: Yes, forget about it.

FINNEY: Never mind.

COATES: Well, I mean, yes, he had Sarah McLachlan on. He had Glenn Powell, I think on as well talking. I am curious to see if they even touched with the ten foot pole politics and what was going on.

[00:25:03]

But he had quite the monologue and talked about --

FINNEY: Yes.

COATES: -- you know, Trump tried to cancel him and that backfired bigly because he said, you know, tongue in cheek. Now I do, speaking about his ratings.

FINNEY: Yes.

COATES: I mean, people were drawn in here and I think many ways, Karen, because this is kind of an avatar for a larger discussion about the government and what they can and cannot control.

FINNEY: And about what has been happening in this country. I mean, people are very uncomfortable when you have a leader who is consolidating power for himself and then abusing that power. And we heard from Trump again tonight with his threats against ABC after last week saying it had nothing to do with ABC and he had nothing to do with it.

People are -- I think most Americans are very uncomfortable that a president would wield their power against a network, against a company, against whomever, and try to render them powerless and say I have more power than you do. Because I think we all know that is not the Constitution of the United States of America. And a majority of Americans at least understand the basic tenets of those core values. And I think you saw that over the weekend with people who came out.

Sarah McLachlan actually refused to sing at a screening, a Hulu screening of a new documentary that's coming out this week about Lilith Fair. She said, you know, she was there to, you know, be part of the screening, but said I was, I know you all thought I was going to sing, but I'm not going to sing tonight. And that was her way of saying protesting.

You know, it's high profile people and again, average Americans. And I think if we remember who we are and we remember that we have power, that is the way we have to push back these authoritarian sort of inklings.

COATES: You know, by the way, I mean, Kimmel spoke quite directly and called what FCC Brendan Carr did was a violation of the Constitution of the First Amendment. He didn't pull any punches in that respect. He talked about more than putting the thumb on the scale, but trying to intimidate, knowing of course, the leverage the FCC has with people like Nexstar, people like Sinclair, who to this moment all but one local area is not showing it at all.

And you have to wonder if that's the obvious that Kim was talking about, you were a member of Congress, what can be done about that if that in fact is so offensive as many believe it absolutely is to the core principles and values of our Constitution, First Amendment. I mean, there is a co-equal branch of government called Congress, what are they going to do about it?

CROWLEY: Well, I think it's next three years, quite frankly. I'm not so sure this Congress is going to stand up to it. I mean look, and you see others --

COATES: Well that's a scary thought.

CROWLEY: Oh, it totally is.

COATES: I mean that's really --

CROWLEY: Very much so, I mean, give Ted Cruz credit. Give Cruz credit. Haven't seen him do it often, but he did buck. He bucked the White House here a little bit. You see it aping elsewhere though. You see it's happening in Oklahoma now. You know, mandating that turning point entities have to be mandated at high schools in the state of Oklahoma.

I mean it's unheard of. Government should not be in the business of dictating politics. That's what it should be doing.

COATES: One of Charlie Kirk's friends, Jack Posobiec tweeting, in typical leftist fashion, Jimmy makes the victim himself. Is that how you expect the MAGA crowd to react to what was said?

KINNEY: Probably because again, there was nothing he was going to say tonight that they would have been happy with. And I assume he realized that. He understood that crowd was never going to be happy and that you've got to speak to the mainstream majority of Americans who say I'm not comfortable with a president abusing their power to regulate speech.

COATES: So is the damage already done in spite of him returning? Is it a bridge too far that can't be returned?

FINNEY: I think, no, I think we all learned something very powerful. I think we learned both that this president and this administration, if you didn't know it, they are absolutely been doing it in many other arenas. But what not that have had such a direct impact on sort of mainstream America. So I think Americans realized, oh, wait a second, this is what's going

on. I'm not sure how I know I don't like it. And I think people spoke.

CROWLEY: I think the Joe Rogan's of the world also pushing back --

FINNEY: Yes.

CROWLEY: -- a bit too is going to have an impact on some of these folks as well. Look, we talk about the fact that Democrats haven't done so well on radio. You know, every talk show for the most part you hear on radio are very conservative. Here you have network television.

I think Sinclair has done a disservice to their viewers. In the end, they're kind of diminishing the value of network television. I can go on Hulu and watch this. I can go on Disney and watch this. I don't need you anymore.

COATES: Yes. An ominous tone nonetheless. Karen, Joe, stand by. So if you needed any more evidence that America is deeply divided? I mean, just look at the reaction to Kimmel.

[00:30:03]

Democrats cheering his return, Republicans want him to stay off the air. And the evidence is in the data. CNN's Harry Enten has been running the numbers -- Harry.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Hey, Laura. Jimmy Kimmel is back on the air after getting suspended last week. And let me tell you that Democrats are praising the good Lord that he's back. Republicans? Not so much.

I want you to take a look at the net likability scores. These were taken before Jimmy Kimmel's suspension. I would, if anything, expect the partisan gap to be even wider now.

Democrats really love Jimmy Kimmel. Look at that. A plus 78 net likability score, compared to amongst Republicans. Look at that. Jimmy Kimmel was already 18 points underwater. My goodness gracious. That gap is nearly 100 points.

Again, I expect that gap to be even wider now after Kimmel's comments last week. And then, of course, the aftermath of all of it.

Now, Democrats are not the only ones who are happy that Jimmy Kimmel is back. I think Disney is happy, as well. Why do I say that? Well, take a look here.

There were so many people on the left who were arguing that you should boycott Disney, that you should cancel Disney Plus and Google searches versus last week's peak. Look at this. For boycotting Disney, down about 75 percent from the peak last week. How about canceling Disney Plus? Down again. Down about 75 percent.

So, fewer people on the left are interested in either boycotting Disney or canceling their Disney Plus, which of course, is good for Disney's bottom line.

Now, the big question is how many people actually are going to or did tune into this episode? The new Jimmy Kimmel episode that aired starting, of course, on Tuesday night at 11:35 Eastern Time.

Well, I think that there are going to be some really high ratings for this. Why? Because get this: leading into the episode, record high Google searches tonight for a simple question: "What time is Jimmy Kimmel on?" Up -- get this -- versus the baseline, about 10,000 percent.

Of course, if you're a regular viewer of Jimmy Kimmel, you know what time he's on. But if you are a unique viewer, someone who usually doesn't tune in, you would Google to find out what time Jimmy Kimmel is on.

Now, what is the baseline? How big could that audience possibly grow? Well, take a look at this average viewership. The average "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" viewership. In 2015, it was 2.4 million. In quarter two of this year, 1.8 million.

How much higher than this 1.8 million are we going to go? Are we going to exceed 2015? I would bet on it. Could we even double it, potentially? Triple it? I don't know. I leave that up to the audiences themselves to determine that number, because they are the ones who are going to decide just how high Jimmy Kimmel goes -- Laura.

COATES: Just how high is high? Thanks, Harry.

Well, President Trump flips the script on Russia's war in Ukraine. Ukraine can win. That's the new message from President Trump, just weeks after rolling out the red carpet for Russia's Vladimir Putin. So, what changed? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:37:47]

COATES: President Donald Trump attended the United Nations General Assembly today, ratcheting up his rhetoric against Russia on the sidelines, saying this while meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, do you think that NATO countries should shoot down Russian aircraft if they enter their airspace?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Yes, I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, later, Trump posted on Truth Social he thinks Ukraine, with the support of the European Union, is in a position to fight and win all of Ukraine back in its original form. Trump has repeatedly insisted that Ukraine would have to give up some

territory to Russia in order to end the conflict. Zelenskyy had this to say in response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: President Trump was more positive in it, and he showed that he wants to support Ukraine to the very end.

So, we understand now that we are ready to finish this war as quick as possible. And he wants, and I want, and our people want. But he understands that Putin doesn't want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Joining me now, Josh Rogin. He is the lead global security analyst for "The Washington Post" intelligence.

Josh, I mean, this is a 180 for the president. What do you make of his post saying Ukraine could now get back to its original borders?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Well, I'm a little skeptical that this represents a real policy shift by President Trump or his administration. I think we've seen a lot of inconsistencies, let's say, in his statements about the Ukraine war.

And, you know, I know that the Ukrainians and their supporters -- and I count myself among them -- would love to, you know, just hold onto this statement as some sign that President Trump really cares about Ukraine, really supports Ukraine, really believes that Ukraine can take back its territory and is going to apply American power and influence and -- and money and weapons to that cause.

And I hate to rain on their parade, honestly, Laura, but I have to just be honest with you. I don't think it really means much in the end.

I think, sure, Trump may be upset that Putin is flagrantly disregarding his wishes and didn't even give him anything in Alaska. But until he actually does something, they're just words.

[00:40:03]

So, Putin knows. Watch what Trump does, not what Trump says. And when it comes to Ukraine, all the signs are actually the other way. He's pulling the aid from Ukraine. He's not supporting them.

He gave a huge speech at the United Nations today where he said, well, I'll only be tough on Russia if everyone else does exactly the same thing, which is kind of a way to not be tough on Russia, honestly.

COATES: Well, there were four words he said at the end. He ended that Truth Social post with "Good luck to all." I mean, what does that say to you? Because it sounds like Trump is very much removing the U.S. from the conflict. ROGIN: Exactly. He thinks that this is Europe's fight. He thinks that,

sure, if Ukraine can fight and beat Russia, good for them. But it's not our job.

And by the way, a lot of other people in his administration think that way. And that's not a crazy thing to think. It's just not a pro- Ukraine position.

So, you know, of course, Zelenskyy is going to seize on whatever he can to, you know, try to, you know, act as if Trump has really made some sort of, like, epiphany that, oh, Ukraine's success is in America's interest.

I think Ukraine's success is in America's interest. I know a lot of Americans who think that way. I don't think Trump's one of them. And I think he just says what he says when he's in the meeting. And until he actually -- actually puts pressure on Putin and actually gives Ukraine the weapons they need to actually advance on the battlefield, it's just all chatter. It's just all meaningless.

And again, Putin knows that. Nobody's really fooled by that except the people who either want to be fooled or who want to sort of hold Trump to those words in case they should become actions sometime in the future.

But I'm just skeptical, to be honest, based on everything we know about Trump and everything he's done on Ukraine since he's become president again.

COATES: Well, you know, twice today -- once during a speech, later to reporters -- he said that he thought this conflict would be easy to solve because of his great relationship with Putin.

As someone, of course, who worked in the Biden administration, why was that a horrible assumption by this president?

ROGIN: right. Because he fails to understand that Vladimir Putin doesn't actually care about their friendship and doesn't actually care about what he wants, and is playing him like a fiddle and has been for many, many years, including on the Ukraine issue. And none of that's changed.

And every six months or so, Trump seems to have an epiphany that Putin is tapping him along and is just, you know, telling him what he wants to hear and then has no intention of doing anything. And he says, Oh, Putin must be disappointing me.

And then everyone's like, Oh, well, I guess he's going to change and support Ukraine.

And then he never does. Trump always chickens out. His overall goal is to pull the United States out of Ukraine conflict and let Europe and Ukraine deal with it on their own.

And he's working towards that pretty fast, despite these fits and starts, where he seems to realize that Putin's not on his side. So, two things can be true. I think he now understands that Putin

doesn't want to end the war, and he understands that his friendship with Putin is not going to end the war. At the same time, he's not willing to do anything to actually help Ukraine win the war.

And there's the rub, Laura. That's the problem, is that it's not enough for Trump to say that Ukraine should win the war. If the United States doesn't help Ukraine win the war, then they're going to have a lot of trouble winning the war.

So, we have a rhetorical policy now that's pro-Ukraine and a functional policy that's very anti-Ukraine. And that's a very chaotic and sad, I think, contradiction that Vladimir Putin will continue to exploit.

COATES: A political, emotional, and now global roller coaster. Josh Rogin, thank you.

ROGIN: Anytime.

COATES: Next, revelations and regrets. Kamala Harris reflects on campaign missteps in her return to "The View," including that one infamous moment on that very show where she said she would not do anything differently than Biden.

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[00:48:14]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": Would you have done something differently than President Biden during the past four years?

KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is not a thing that comes to mind in terms of -- and I've been a part of -- of -- of most of the decisions that have had impact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, who doesn't remember that moment? It was played over and over again in political ads and talked about endlessly during and after Kamala Harris's failed presidential campaign.

Well, in her new book, "107 Days," she describes it as a pulling the pin on a hand grenade. And today, she returned to the scene of that crime to explain it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I'm a loyal person, and I didn't fully appreciate how much people wanted to know there was a difference between me and President Biden.

I thought it was obvious. And I didn't want to offer a difference in a way that would be received or suggested to be a criticism. HOSTIN: Do you think that moment tipped the election?

HARRIS: No, no.

JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": Good, because Sunny doesn't want to take the blame.

HARRIS: There's kind of a confessional happening here. No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, Karen Finney and Joe Crowley are back with me now.

OK, Joe. The original interview she did was in October, a month before the election, of course, when she did "The View" the first time. And she talks about appreciating how much people wanted to know the difference and distinction.

Is that naive that she didn't know that?

JOE CROWLEY, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR NEW YORK: Look, I think she's being very sincere, I think, coming out, and -- and she -- we ought to give her that. You know, giving us the opportunity to express her feelings and emotions.

I think elections are about change. That's clear. And if you don't offer that change, if you're just the same, you're not -- you're not the change candidate.

And I think that's what was missed. The opportunity there to say, Look, I love Joe Biden. I've served with him as vice president for four years. We don't see eye to eye on everything. And here's where I'm different.

That was the opportunity she would have -- she could have had and used.

But I get it. You know, I think she's very sincere saying that she loves Joe Biden. She -- she's loyal. And she didn't want to come off. I don't think -- I think she didn't want to be disrespectful to him.

And, you know, think about it. Biden, president for four years. This was highly unexpected. You know, she gets thrown into this at the last second, last minute.

But I think she got probably some bad advice. If this -- Here's one question you have to really know the answer to.

COATES: Right.

CROWLEY: This one, you should be prepared for.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's what it felt like at the time, was it's the most obvious question. And so, it was a little surprising. I thought the same thing, Congressman. Like, OK, who advised you on

that answer? Because that was not a good answer. I'll just be honest. Right? As somebody who works with candidates and around communications, it wasn't a great answer.

It was nice to see them have a little fun with it today. And it was -- it was interesting. It's been interesting to see her out, you know, last night and today. And it will be interesting to see what she says and does over the course of her book tour, because she'll, of course, be asked to respond in real time to things that are happening with President Trump, many of which are things that she did try to warn us about.

COATES: Well, that's the interesting part about this, because of course, you know, I remember hearing her be criticized by, for example, Charlamagne Tha God, who called her very scripted. And she called that disciplined instead of scripted.

People are wanting to hear from candidates, not only the change. They also want to hear, like, who they are in real time. And are you the product of advice or the product of your own agency?

And I do wonder if people are viewing her, in light of a potential political future, differently, based on however this book is received. Does this essentially dictate whether we might see her again politically?

CROWLEY: Well, I think there's positive and negatives in doing these kinds of things.

And I think just going back to the questions for a moment, as a former candidate and someone who ran for public office, some of the toughest questions you get is, what are you most proud of in your years in office? What is your biggest regret?

Things that you think you would be ready to answer right away that really aren't on the top of your brain? You know?

COATES: Sure. I understand that.

CROWLEY: But I do think, you know, coming out with a book like this and going and promoting it and get out, there's going to be -- there's going to be positives and negatives.

I think we're a bit aways away from the decision-making time. I think there will be multiple candidates. She's not going to be handed this, if that's the case, if that's the thought. There will be a lot of people looking around here, and she may very well be in the mix. I'm not so sure.

COATES: Well, she actually talks about 2028 not being her focus. Listen to this.

FINNEY: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEHAR: Would you run again? Would you like to run again?

HARRIS: That's not in my immediate focus. I'm doing my book tour.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: Will you consider running in 2028?

HARRIS: That's not my focus right now.

MADDOW: I know.

HARRIS: It's not my focus at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, my focus right now is not bedtime, but it will be. So, I mean, that's in the near future, right? Think about this. But look at this and --

CROWLEY: Not my focus.

FINNEY: I've heard that one before.

COATES: I don't know. I know that, to me, doesn't satisfy me. But, you know, I'm not the whole electorate.

But let me ask you that there is this moment. I mentioned Charlamagne Tha God. Earlier today, he talked about these basically two books, "107 Days" and one by my colleague Jake Tapper, "Original Sin." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, PODCASTER: It's over for the Biden legacy. I always thought the Biden legacy was trash anyway, but this definitely confirms it.

Between the "Original Sin" by Jake Tapper and this "107 Days" book by the V.P., Kamala Harris, and you got Karine Jean-Pierre coming out.

But to me, nobody was closer to them than the vice president. So, it's very damning, what she says about Biden in the book, to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I think the Biden legacy is trash.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: So, does that open a lane for who in 2028? If the Biden legacy, aside from the way in which they said it, perhaps. But is it -- if it's over, who's next?

FINNEY: You know, I don't -- obviously, I don't think we know the answer to that question. And I think we will have to see where the country is. We are undergoing such a dramatic challenging of our most fundamental

basic values. I hope that the person who comes next actually is someone who says, here's a vision for the future. Here's a vision for how we rebuild our democracy.

I don't know if we'll get to hear that, but that's -- and I don't know who that is at this point in time.

COATES: Does that surprise you? We don't know, at this point in time, who that might be?

CROWLEY: I'm going to focus on this right now.

I do think.

COATES: Touche.

[00:50:01]

CROWLEY: I do think that -- I think Karen's right. I think that this is developing. There are a lot of folks out there. There are governors out there. There are former congressmen. There are former senators. There are present senators who want to run.

So, I think you're going to -- it'll be a robust, I think, cartel of folks who are going to run.

COATES: Well, let's see who focuses on all of that.

CROWLEY: I hope they're focused.

COATES: Well, I hope you're focused. Joe, Karen, thank you all.

And thank you all out there for watching, and your focus.

My colleague Lynda Kinkade picks up live coverage after a short break. Good night.

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