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Laura Coates Live

Emotional Reunions As Hostages Return To Israel; Is John Bolton Next To Face Trump's Retribution?; Obama Knocks Trump, Gives Message To Democrats. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 13, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

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And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." You can catch me any time on your favorite social media on X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, two years of separation comes to an end. Israeli hostages reunite with their families as President Trump says the war with Hamas is over. But the next steps aren't as clear as the first. Plus, is John Bolton the next target on the retribution tour? Forget about just an indictment. Apparently, they're already debating whether he should get a perp walk. And President Barack Obama goes after Trump and name drops a Democrat he thinks represents the future of the party. Well, that Democrat is my guest tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

Let's take a moment. Forget the politics. It was about people. Today was a truly momentous day. For over two years, people in Israel, people in Gaza, they had been in a constant state of grief, of despair, of fear, of overwhelming pain and total destruction. A war that felt truly endless and perhaps even hopeless.

But today brought something different. Look. I know -- I know there are still a lot of challenges ahead. I don't have all the answers for you. People in charge don't have the answers for you, at least not yet. And I'm going to get to all the questions that are still out there in just a moment.

But the people and what many people feared we would never see, for the first time since October 7, 2023, no living Israeli hostages taken by Hamas remain in Gaza. The 20 still alive are now back home, and they are reunited with their families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

UNKNOWN: (INAUDIBLE)

COATES: That's 23-year-old Bar Kupershtein, and he's embracing his mom. He was a paramedic at the Nova music festival where he was abducted by Hamas. Moments later, he got to hug his dad, who was helped up from his wheelchair. His father, he spent the last two years training to walk just so he could greet his son while standing. Do you hear the mother? I mean, the emotional homecomings, they kept coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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(SHOUTING)

UNKNOWN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

COATES: This is 25-year-old Eitan Mor. He was on the security team at the Nova festival and witnesses say that he helped evacuate the wounded before he was even kidnapped. Moments like those, the tears, the sounds of joy, they echoed all across Israel today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: It was full of tears that said everything words could not convey. Loved ones embracing what they once thought had been lost to them. Families who spent two years wondering if this day would ever come, realizing perhaps in a surreal way that it finally had them, had. And it was not a dream. It was here and it was today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And in Gaza, a place ravaged by war and starvation and unimaginable loss, people filled the streets to meet their relatives, their loved ones that they, too, thought they would never see again. Crowds gathered as more than 1,700 Palestinian detainees were released. They had been held by Israel without ever being charged with a crime. The 250 Palestinian prisoners convicted by Israeli courts, they were also freed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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COATES: Now, for President Trump, it was an accomplishment that he views as likely his biggest in office. He went to Israel to address the country's parliament and told lawmakers it's a historic dawn of a new Middle East.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So, this long and difficult war has now ended. You know, some people say 3,000 years, some people say 500 years.

[23:04:59]

Whatever it is, it's granddaddy of them all. And in an unprecedented achievement, virtually, the entire region has endorsed the plan that Gaza will be immediately demilitarized, that Hamas will be disarmed --

(APPLAUSE)

-- and Israel's security will no longer be threatened in any way, shape or form.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That is the hope. But this is just phase one, the start of a 20-point plan. There are still lot of unknowns, unfortunately, about how this promising start will reach a permanent fulfilling end. I mean, first of all, who's going to pay for the rebuilding of Gaza? The U.N. says 78% of the buildings there destroyed or damaged. How will the territory actually be governed? And what happens to Hamas? Are they ready to disarm?

Now, Trump went to Egypt for a summit after leaving Israel, joining other Middle East leaders in signing a document called the Trump Peace Agreement. But it's thin on what the next steps actually will look like. You know who was not at the summit and did not sign the document? Reps from both Israel and Hamas.

I want to bring in two experts who have dealt with the realities of war and the morning after. Former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Dan Shapiro, CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force colonel, Cedric Leighton. I mean, it's not an overstatement. It's not hyperbole. It is not an exaggeration. This was a defining day. I mean, 737 days, ambassador. What does this mean for the people of Israel?

DANIEL SHAPIRO, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Laura, thanks for having me. Those pictures that you showed say everything. It's even hard to stay composed --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

SHAPIRO: -- as you watch the emotions pour through the screen. But it's not just the families. Really, across Israel, people are celebrating, more than celebrating. For the first time in two years, they're allowing themselves to exhale. They've really had their lives on hold since October 7th, worried about their hostages, worried about their family members serving in the military. Of course, some mourning people who were lost on October 7th or in the military. And, of course, some families are still waiting to receive the deceased hostages who haven't yet been released.

So, those emotions are all mixed today, but it was the first time in two years that people allowed themselves to exhale and think maybe this is the beginning of moving on beyond this terrible tragic period.

COATES: Trump says the war is over. Is it?

SHAPIRO: The war -- the war is over. But, as you said, it's only phase one. And phase two is critical. It is true that the Israeli troops have pulled back to certain lines and the hostages were released and Palestinian prisoners were released and aid is surging in to Gaza for Palestinian civilians, but big questions ahead are, can Hamas and will Hamas be disarmed?

Because as long as Hamas holds to power and holds to its guns and tries to use its muscle, which it's doing on the streets already of Gaza, you really can't get on to the next phases of bringing in international stabilization force, bringing in reconstruction funds, maybe to tens of billions of dollars, bringing in the Palestinian authority to start to assert its governance, and getting Israelis and Palestinians to talk about their political future. None of that will happen if Hamas remains armed and in charge of Gaza.

COATES: So, how do you get to that phase two of disarming Hamas?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST, RETIRED AIR FORCE COLONEL: Well, that's going to be a real problem. And the ambassador is absolutely right, these are some of the critical issues. So, as far as disarming Hamas, part of the problem is that Hamas does not want to be disarmed. You have to have willing participants in this. You know, you compare it to something like the end of World War II where we disarmed the Germans and the Japanese. That was a fairly, uh, rigorous process, but it was a process that both sides accepted.

COATES: There's also a lot of leverage on one side to ensure that.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. And this is the problem, we don't have the leverage, at least not yet. Yes, uh, peace was established for the moment with this accord, but the problem that you have is that, as was mentioned, as you mentioned previously, Laura, Hamas wasn't there to sign things, Israel wasn't in the room to sign things. And that is really part of the problem. There's a lot of symbology when you can sign a document that ends a particular conflict. And when that symbology is lacking, sometimes, the follow through is also lacking.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

LEIGHTON: So, when it comes to this particular situation, Hamas is reasserting itself. As the ambassador mentioned, they are going through every single part of Gaza that they control, and they are settling scores with people, with the clans that cooperated with the Israelis or they think cooperated with the Israelis.

COATES: What does that mean, setting the scores?

LEIGHTON: Well, it means, basically -- think of a mafia-type hit. Basically, what they're doing is they're going in and they're killing people who they think actually supported the Israelis or least provided information to the Israelis. For example, Israeli intelligence had knowledge of where some of the hostages were held. [23:10:01]

And that information didn't just come from technical means, it came from people in Gaza who were providing that information to the Israelis. So that would be one example of the types of things that they would do. So, it's -- it's critical that the stabilization force enter this area. And the problem is getting that stabilization force set up, getting it moved into Gaza --

COATES: Right.

LEIGHTON: -- and having the fighting actually stop.

COATES: The order in which this has all happened, there was a time when people thought this was impossible to do. This seems to have opened up the decision to release hostages, and then deal with the, perhaps, policy weighty issues later. Why do you think that was the decision to be made now in terms -- that wasn't made previously, where it was the goal was the policy and eventually the hostages? It's the reverse now.

SHAPIRO: You know, President Trump, for the first eight or nine months of the administration, was kind of tolerant of additional Israeli military actions, which extended the war and wasn't pushing as hard for his own goal, which was to release the hostages and then move to the next phase. And part of that was waiting for the moment of maximum leverage to put together that whole package.

He changed his approach after Israel took the strike against Hamas leaders in Doha, Qatar about a month ago, September 9th. It was an unsuccessful strike, but it was really the moment when he switched to use his leverage with Israel to say, let's end this now, let's have Israel pull back to certain lines and get all of its hostages back.

He turned to Arab partners and Qatar and Egypt and Turkey, very influential with Hamas, have them use their leverage to get Hamas to agree to all the hostages. So, both Israel and Hamas agreed to terms that they hadn't agreed to previously and got less than they had demanded previously, but left the big issues for later.

COATES: Right.

SHAPIRO: Now, he's going to need to use that same or get help with that same leverage from Qatar and Turkey particularly to get Hamas to do that disarmament. Nobody else has the influence with Hamas than those countries have.

COATES: I will say that President Biden has addressed this as well, and he -- the world is praising Trump, frankly, for what has happened here. Biden said, "I commend President Trump and his team for their work to get a renewed ceasefire deal over the finish line."

When you look at leverage, when you look at what has happened before and, of course, the military implications, I mean, this is the commander-in-chief of what is known as the most lethal military in the world, the United States, obviously, was that the leverage? Was the positioning of Trump critical?

LEIGHTON: It was, absolutely. And one of the key things is this: You know, when we talk about the strike on Hamas in Qatar, that really angered Trump. The fact that that happened made him say, okay, this has gone too far.

COATES: Why? Because of the ties with Qatar?

LEIGHTON: Yes, because the Israelis attacked Qatar territory, sovereign Qatar territory. And that was a problem because Qatar is an ally of the United States. In fact, a major non-NATO U.S. ally. So, that puts it in a special status.

COATES: And just like we have an Idaho facility being built, right? To work in terms of training with Qatar Air Force, right?

LEIGHTON: Right. Now, that's new, but that was something that was in the works beforehand. But yes, that's a facility to train Qatari F-15 pilots on ranges in the United States, in the Western United States where they've got a lot of space, where they can actually practice aerial maneuvers that they wouldn't be able to do in Qatar itself. So, that's one of the reasons.

There's a lot of concern about that particular facility. But Singapore is already at that base, Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho. And there are other places in the United States. For example, the Germans and the German Air Force works at Holloman Air Force Base.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

LEIGHTON: So, these are not bases of those countries but they are on U.S. soil as part of a U.S. Air Force installation, and they're basically detachments that are there as a geographically separated unit, as we would call it.

COATES: Ambassador, this deal that Trump has facilitated, I mean, he has met with tremendous praise. Kaitlan Collins posted a picture of the cover of the paper in Jerusalem and talking about it. God bless the peacemaker, I think, was the phrase that was used. Um, Netanyahu still faces many corruption charges. Trump even suggested that maybe those should maybe go away right now. What is this impact in terms of Netanyahu's popularity and governance in Israel? Does this impact that for him?

SHAPIRO: You know, he has not been so popular during this war. A lot of people blame him for the war, for the attacks of October 7th and the unpreparedness for it, and then for how he has conducted aspects of the war or not seem to prioritize the hostages.

However, obviously, the end of the war, the happy scenes you see in the streets of Tel Aviv will probably redound somewhat to his benefit. President Trump is very popular in Israel, as you alluded to with those headlines. And so, associating himself with President Trump may help him. He has to go to election sometime in 2026. He will probably try to find the time when he has the greatest opportunity. And one thing he'll tell the Israeli people is, I'm Donald Trump's best friend.

[23:15:00]

The other thing he'll tell them is, who do you trust to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state? Still not very popular among Israelis post-October 7th. But that's in Trump's 20-point plan, that there should be a credible pathway to a Palestinian state. So, there could be some tension there as that election unfolds.

COATES: Ambassador, colonel, thank you both. Up next, New York A.G. Letitia James with a very public and very feisty message to, well, for Donald Trump in her first speech since her indictment. Plus, Trump's DOJ closes in on John Bolton with talk of a potential indictment and even talk of a potential perp walk now being seriously discussed, next.

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[23:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: Triumph over fear and courage. Courage, my friend, is resistance to fear.

(APPLAUSE)

And so, I fear no man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That's New York Attorney General Letitia James speaking publicly for the first time since she was indicted on federal mortgage fraud charges. She denies the charges. And she's just one of several Trump opponents facing legal trouble. Who could be next?

Likely Trump's ex-national security advisor, John Bolton. A source telling CNN that federal prosecutors met this weekend after initially pushing back on the indictment, discussing details like if there should be an on-camera perp walk.

Now, if you heard the initially pushing back part of the sentence, you'll recognize a pattern. Because over in the Eastern District of Virginia, Trump's hand-picked U.S. attorney is removing yet another prosecutor. This time, it's senior prosecutor Maggie Cleary. Sources say that Cleary opposed prosecuting James Comey, and Lindsey Halligan is moving around prosecutors who may be against her work.

My next guest took a principled stance when Trump's DOJ told him to do what he thought was unethical. With me now, former federal prosecutor Ryan Crosswell who resigned over the deal to end the criminal case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

Ryan, good to see you, my friend. Maggie Cleary is not described as a bleeding-heart liberal. She worked for Governor Glenn Youngkin, a Republican. Why would he remove her? RYAN CROSSWELL, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Laura, thanks for having me. This appears to be a continuation of really what we've seen since the inauguration, and that is competent federal prosecutors and federal agents being replaced by loyalists who are in those positions because of their fidelity to Donald Trump.

And, again, I think the American people need to understand this is an office that indicts hundreds, if not thousands, of cases a year, and these cases are being compromised in the service of the Donald Trump retribution tour. It makes us all less safe.

COATES: You know, you and I both know these offices are not like two- person shops. They've got different units. People are working on different cases. They really diversify who works on what. So, why not just reassign if she were working on this case, which I'm not sure if she was going to keep working on it? Why not put her someplace else, in different caseload or a different matter entirely? Is there a fear that the presence of somebody who pushes back on an indictment like this is somehow going to fatally undermine the cases? How can that be?

CROSSWELL: You know, Laura, that's -- that's my assumption. I can't see any other reason why she would do this. I think it's very important for the American people to understand -- it's exceptional. It's -- it's unheard of almost for U.S. attorney to personally handle cases.

COATES: Right.

CROSSWELL: She is the top federal law enforcement official in the district. And the fact that she personally is handling both the Comey and James indictments tells you that none of the career prosecutors are willing to do it. I think that speaks volumes about the case.

COATES: That is pretty stunning to think about. And the grand jury alone, I don't think I ever remember my U.S. attorney in D.C. going into the grand jury and trying to indict a case. That would have been shocking to say the least.

The vice president, J.D. Vance, is defending the indictments of people like James Comey, Tish James. He says they obviously lot under oath. What do you make of J.D. Vance and Trump continuing really in a world with presumption of innocence to prejudge and do it publicly given that there is motions that are going to be pending about prosecution and the influence of a sitting president and vice president and, of course, a jury pool who might take issue with it?

CROSSWELL: Well, Laura, it's almost certainly going to compromise the case. But I don't even think they really care. This is -- the abuses of power I witnessed, it's why I resigned, it's why I'm running for Congress here in Pennsylvania 7.

And when I testified to Congress about the Adams case, I said that a Justice Department that drops cases against those who acquiesce to this administration is a Justice Department that will bring those against those who don't. That is what we're seeing here. It's dangerous. It's un-American.

And the opposition to this should transcend party lines. Republicans in Congress should be speaking out against this. They're not, including the congressmen here in PA7. They're spineless, and that's why I'm running. If people want to support my campaign, they can go to ryancrosswell.com.

COATES: Well, you know, Tish James spoke today. The attorney general spoke tonight, actually. It was the first time since she was indicted on mortgage fraud charges. Listen to what she said.

[23:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES: You see, I know what it feels like to be attacked for just doing your job. And so, I stand on solid rock.

(APPLAUSE)

And now, I will not bow, I will not break, I will not bend, I will not capitulate, I will not give in, I will not give up!

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: What's your assessment of her publicly talking about this case in that generalized term? Obviously, she's referencing what we all know is the elephant in the room, these indictments.

CROSSWELL: Laura, I appreciate her courage. You know, I find from voters in my own district, they're disturbed by this. And, frankly, some of them are scared by it. And I tell them not to be scared. Um, this is the greatest democracy on earth. And the administration and the Congress are trying to remake it an image of one man.

And we need to fight back against that. We need to fight back by voting these people out of office in state and local elections this year in 2025 and next year in the midterms in 2026. So, I commend her courage.

COATES: We will see if any of her statements impacts her defense or her prosecution. Ryan Crosswell, thank you.

Still ahead, former President Barack Obama with a lot to say about President Trump, those who voted for him, and yes, even the shortcomings of his own party in this particular moment. We'll unpack it all with one Democrat that Obama actually thinks is doing something right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yeah. But -- but look, there's this young state rep, James Talarico, who was on there a while back out of Texas. MARC MARON, COMEDIAN, PODCASTER: Oh, that guy is good, right?

OBAMA: He's terrific. A really talented young man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, his name is James Talarico. He's standing by to join me next.

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[23:30:00]

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COATES: You know, when President Obama first appeared on Marc Maron's WTF podcast in June of 2015, a Manhattan real estate mogul and T.V. personality had just launched what was considered to be a long shot bid for the presidency.

Let's fast forward 10 years later. Because today, Obama became the last ever guest on Maron's podcast in a political climate that has been completely transformed by Trump since he left office. And Obama, well, he issued a clear warning in their conversation, telling Maron the guardrails in place to protect democracy are being deliberately weakened by Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We're being tested right now. I think people, and that includes young people, right? Understand the consequences to the choices that we're making. If you decide not to vote, that's a consequence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You know, Obama didn't stop there. He also laid forth what he believes is the solution to pass the very test he describes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: It's not like we're not at the stage where you have to be like Nelson Mandela and be in a 10 by 12 jail cell for 27 years and break rocks.

MARON: Yeah.

OBAMA: We're not at that point. Right now, there's just a little discomfort. And so, when I say, for example, if you're a law firm, you know, you're saying to -- you know, we're going to represent who we want, and we're going to stand up for what we think is our core mission of upholding the law. And maybe we'll lose some business for that, but that's what we believe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, joining me now, someone that Obama actually complimented, saying that he's practicing politics the right way. Texas State Rep. James Talarico is here. He's a candidate for Senate in Texas Democratic primary. Good to see you as well. I mean, you just heard the former president say that we're being tested by Trump's policies. What did you interpret that to mean? And what does that look like as a test for someone like you who is a Democrat running in a red state?

JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I've been traveling all over Texas just in the first month of this campaign. I've been going to every corner of this state. I've been going to red communities and blue communities, urban and suburban and rural, just going everywhere, talking to everyone. And I really get the sense that people are sick and tired of the politics we've had for the last 10 years, this politics as blood sport, politics as trolling and owning, politics as total war. I mean, it tears families apart, it ends friendships, and it leaves us all feeling terrible all the time.

And so, I think people across the political spectrum, across the state, and across the country are hungry for a new kind of politics, one that's not based on fear and hate and division, but one that's based on love for our neighbors and our country.

COATES: And perhaps a little bit of productivity in the process for the things that they hold dear and need. I mean, you heard the former president. He -- he didn't shy away from criticizing his own party. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: You can't, um, constantly lecture people without acknowledging that you've got some blind spots, too.

[23:35:02]

The vulnerability, I think, comes in and saying, I've got some core convictions, I've got beliefs that I'm not going to compromise, but I'm also not going to assert that I am so righteous and so pure and -- and -- and so insightful that there's not the possibility that maybe I'm wrong on this --

MARON: Sure.

OBAMA: -- or that, you know, other people, if they don't say things exactly the way I say them or see things exactly the way I do, that, somehow, they're bad people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You know, you mentioned division and the exhaustion you think voters have about that. Is Obama correct to say that Democrats have been in a way become too self-righteous and less self-aware about their own blind spots?

TALARICO: I think President Obama is spot on here. You know, my faith teaches me to love my neighbor as myself. And that's not just my neighbor who looks like me or my neighbor who prays like me or my neighbor who votes like me. That's inclusive of all of my neighbors.

And that's because despite our many differences, we all really want the same thing. We want a safe neighborhood, we want a good job, we want a high quality, well-funded public school, and we want the ability to see a doctor when we need one. That's a lot of common ground that most Texans and most Americans share.

And I feel, one, I'm tired of being pitted against my neighbor, I'm tired of the algorithms, I'm tired of the -- of the corporate media that is pitting us all against each other, that's telling us to hate one another when in reality, we have so much more in common than we realize. And if we can build a politics based on that common ground, we can transform this country. And that's what I'm trying to do with -- with this campaign in Texas.

COATES: You know, you've been thrust into the national spotlight in the last couple of months. You were -- you were praised by the likes of Josh Rogan, President Obama. I mean, Rogan, obviously, credited in part with securing the victory for now President Trump in his second term. President Obama spoke of you today as well. Now, I warn you, he didn't get your name quite right like I did, but, but he did say this about you today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: There's this young state rep, James Talarico, who was on there a while back out of Texas.

MARON: Oh, that guy is good, right

OBAMA: He's terrific. A really talented young man. And I think a guy like him, his -- his starting point is, let me -- let me say what I believe. The word authenticity gets overused, I think. What people long for is some core integrity. That -- that seems absent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: What was your reaction to hearing that?

TALARICO: Well, President Obama can pronounce my name however he wants.

(LAUGHTER)

I was -- I was really honored to hear the former president's words. I -- I actually registered voters for President Obama's first campaign back when I was a sophomore in college. And I think a lot of my fellow millennials were inspired by him and his servant leadership. I think it's why my generation still believes in this democratic American experiment of ours.

And so, what I'm trying to do here in Texas with this campaign is build the same kind of hopeful politics that we've been missing for the last 10 years in this country. And in large part, that was inspired by the former president. So, honored to -- to hear those words today. COATES: Yeah, there've been a lot of Democrats, several in the past few years, that have tried to flip Texas. I mean, Beto O'Rourke came close in 2018. He fell short. Colin Allred. He tried last year and ultimately lost to Ted Cruz. How confident are you that 2026 is the year that Democrats could pull it off?

TALARICO: Well, I'm -- I'm getting a sense across the state as I'm traveling that there is something brewing in the state of Texas. There is a backlash growing against the extremism and the corruption that we've seen at all levels of government, including in Washington.

And I think we're ready for a campaign that can bring us all together across the many divides in our country, bring us together across party, across race, across gender, across religion, so that we can take power back for working people in Texas and in this country. I think folks are ready for that kind of campaign. And I hope that -- that this effort in Texas can help spur that here and across the nation.

COATES: Very intriguing. James Talarico, thank you so much.

TALARICO: Thanks for having me.

COATES: Up next, a prediction from the speaker of the House on when this shutdown may end.

[23:40:00]

Plus, this weekend's "no kings" protest has nothing to do with the government shutdown. So, why are Republicans insisting otherwise? We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Thirteen days. No ongoing negotiations. No end in sight. And now, Speaker Johnson is warning to prepare for the long haul.

[23:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE JOHNSON, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: We're barreling toward one of the longest shutdowns in American history unless Democrats drop their partisan demands and pass a clean, no-strings-attached budget to reopen the government and pay our federal workers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, on the Democrats' side, Hakeem Jeffries was asked why he hasn't met with Speaker Johnson today. His answer?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATY TUR, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Have you met with Speaker Mike Johnson?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): No, Speaker Mike Johnson and I have not met.

TUR: Why not?

JEFFRIES: They've made the decision. Donald Trump has not given -- because Donald Trump has not given them permission to meet, Katy. And we know that until Donald Trump gives them permission to meet, they're going to continue to hide as it relates to sitting down and negotiating a bipartisan agreement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, whether or not that's the case, Trump tonight appears to be trying to bypass both parties in Congress on the issue of military pay. A Pentagon spokesperson says that Trump has asked Hegseth to redirect $8 billion in research funds to pay the troops, as active- duty service members are set to miss their paychecks just two days from now.

Joining me now, Democratic strategist and former advisor to Kamala Harris, Mike Nellis. Also here, the host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Ben Ferguson. Welcome to you both. Mike, let me begin with you here because Jeffries is saying that he has not met with Johnson because Trump, you heard it, has not given the Republicans permission. I mean, the phone does work two ways, right?

MIKE NELLIS, FORMER ADVISER TO KAMALA HARRIS: Well, how could speaker -- excuse me. How can Hakeem Jeffries meet with Speaker Johnson when they're not even at work right now? Like Republicans are not in session. They barely worked more than 12 days since the middle of the summer. If you or I didn't show up to work like that, we'd get fired.

Let's be clear about this for a second because Donald Trump and Mike Johnson can end this shutdown any time that they want to. But they actually want this shutdown. They want this shutdown because they don't want to move forward with the Epstein discharge petition now that Democrats have the votes. They'll be able to release the Epstein files with those votes, but they're delaying and installing it.

So, they would rather cover for predators than stop your health insurance premiums from doubling or tripling and reopening the government, and that isn't right.

COATES: Ben, do you agree?

BEN FERGUSON, RADIO SHOW HOST: No, I do not. Look, I go back to reality. You can try to score political points here. The American people are not talking about Epstein right now. They're not focused on that. If you're in our government, you're not getting paid. What you just heard there would just irritate you.

If you're in Iraq right now, for example, one of my friends who's not getting a pay check while he away from his family, you're not worried about the politics that were just said there.

And I think the reality is this: Republicans more than a dozen times said we're going to have a C.R., we're going to continue to operate like adults when Biden was in office to keep the government open and not hold people hostage. And what we're witnessing right now is Democrats who made it very clear that a budget that they were totally fine with when Joe Biden was president somehow is not acceptable now for political reasons.

And you have a Schumer shutdown because you have, unfortunately, six -- they can't find six grown men or women who realize that their job is to get to 60 votes in the Senate.

And so, this is going to continue on. I think it's going to continue on probably until you have a rally on Capitol Hill that Democrats are being held hostage by. And until that date gets here, you will see no movement on Capitol Hill because they got to have a rally. Democrats have to be angry. You got to have Schumer out there yelling and every other Democrat. And then they'll get a deal done. I think they'll probably get a deal done in days after that.

COATES: Well, Mike, what do you say to the idea that the "no kings" rally, I'm assuming that Ben is referencing here, is -- is --

NELLIS: Yeah.

COATES: -- somehow the -- the only mechanism or vehicle by which to get things done or way a dam will break? What's your response?

NELLIS: Well, the no-kings rally really has nothing to do with the shutdown other than people are pretty unhappy with Donald Trump's leadership. I want to cycle back to something that you just said, though, which is that this is the Joe Biden budget. This is not the Joe Biden budget. This is the Republican budget. They passed it in much fancier --

(CROSSTALK)

NELLIS: No, but this is the Republican budget. Let's keep in mind, how many times have Republicans --

(CROSSTALK)

NELLIS: -- and remind people that Donald Trump won on this? Hold on. I didn't interrupt you. I ask that you didn't interrupt me.

FERGUSON: No, no. But I want to be clear. The C.R. was --

COATES: Well, hold on, Ben. I do -- Ben, I do want -- excuse me. I want to hear you. I'll hear from Mike. I'll come right back to you. Mike, finish your point. We'll hear from Ben next.

NELLIS: Yeah. The point that I want to make is that Republicans like Ben love to come on CNN to remind people that Donald trump won in this giant landslide, that they control the White House, they control Senate, they control the House. But the minute they can't keep the government open, it's somebody else's fault.

The buck stops with Donald Trump. If they want to the shutdown, they could right now. All they have to do is in -- is -- is -- is extended these health care subsidies. They're going to prevent your health care premiums from doubling or tripling. That's the bottom line. Do that and the government reopens.

FERGUSON: Yeah, but you still have to get to 60 votes. And you can count to 60.

[23:50:00]

There's no way to count to 60 without Democrats being involved. I go back to the C.R. It's a clean C.R. The C.R. was to keep the government open at the level of funding under Joe Biden while they're negotiating the future budget. You understand that. Republicans understood it more than a dozen times when Joe Biden was president that you don't hold people hostage who are working in our government and/or in our military.

And I go back to the simple issue here. This day on Capitol Hill is going to be the day where finally, Democrats can then come to the table and act like adults. They're being held hostage by the radical left in their party.

And I mark my word, in the days after, this anti-Trump rally in Washington, D.C., you'll start to see movement. They will not meet. They will not work on any of this. They will hold the government hostage and shutdown until after this rally because this is what this has all been about since day one.

COATES: Mike, you know, both of you, I -- I've been a federal employee during a shutdown. And I got to tell you, when I wasn't getting paid and told to work anyway, I wasn't thinking about the politics, I was thinking about how I was going to provide for my family.

FERGUSON: Yeah.

COATES: And that's not a cheer to either side. It's a recognition that people who are federal workers want to have the government open, but they don't necessarily, Mike, want it at every single cost. Military families have been expressing a ton of anxiety over missing payments. Trump accused Democrats of holding the military hostage, a word that Ben has been using. How does this look for Democrats when he takes credit for being the reason that troops get paid if he goes through with this process that Hegseth might release some of these unobligated research funds in order to pay?

NELLIS: Yeah. Well, look, my father was a 34-year veteran of the FBI. I had to deal with him not getting his paycheck --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

NELLIS: -- during two shutdowns both by the Republicans. So, this is something that happens. Nobody looks good when the government shut down, not Democrat or Republicans.

But at the end of the day, and I'll make this point until the cows come home, Donald Trump is president of United States, the Republicans control the House and the Senate. Republicans in the House haven't even shown up to work in weeks. So, if they want to make a deal with the Democrats, they have to show up to work, they have to be willing to negotiate. All the Democrats are asking for here is to make sure that tens of millions of Americans don't have their health insurance premiums doubled or tripled. That is unbelievably popular.

Frankly, I think Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, if they can get them to do this on a deal, will be doing Donald Trump and the Republicans a favor in the midterms.

COATES: We'll see if any of the members of Congress think that you both are right. Mike Nellis, Ben Ferguson, we'll see what happens. Thank you so much. A quick programming note here. Senator Bernie Sanders and Congressman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was going to join Kaitlan Collins for a live town hall on the government shutdown. That's this Wednesday at 9 p.m. East right here on CNN.

Still ahead, imagine losing your job only to get paid 600,000 bucks a month to do absolutely nothing for the next six years. You heard me right. Six hundred thousand. It's a real-life story, and I'll have it for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: If ever there was an example of life coming at you fast, I've got one for you tonight. Take Penn State football head coach James Franklin. Last year, he was one win away from playing in the national championship game. Just 30 days ago, his team was potentially in the running to be the top team in the country. This weekend, he was fired after three straight brutal losses.

But in the big money world of college football, you need not feel bad for Franklin because he just scored one of the biggest buyouts in sports history. How big? We ask CNN's Harry Enten to walk us through it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Hey, Laura, welcome to Monday Night Facts. And on this Monday night, well, we're going to talk about a man who's going to get paid a ton of money to do absolutely nothing. That is, we are going to be talking about Penn State's buyout of the former head coach of the Nittany Lions, James Franklin.

Pennsylvania State is giving him a ton of money to do nothing. What are we talking about here? Well, let's take a look at the largest college football buyout, college football head coach's buyouts of all time. You see James Franklin coming in at about $50 million. Believe it or not, that's not even the number one buyout of all time. That belongs to Jimbo Fisher who, of course, once coached the Texas A&M football squad. His buyout was, get this, $27 million more approximately, Jimbo Fisher's than James Franklin at $77 million. Now, I can dream a dream, but I'm not sure I can dream a dream this big. And that might give you an idea, though, dreaming the dream, that I'm a big fan of musicals. And one of the musicals I really enjoy is Rent. And, of course, Rent had that great song da, da, da minutes, hours, years, etcetera.

Well, let's talk about it. Franklin makes in the buyout, per hour, we're talking about $900 per hour. How about per day? We're talking about $20,000 per day. Oh, my God. How about per week? More than most people make in a year. We're talking about, get this, $150,000 per week approximately. That's how much James Franklin is making over the course of the next six years from his buyout.

Now, you may see these numbers and you say, wow, those are ridiculous, they're huge. But get this, if we were to redo this with some of the current head coaches who have not yet been bought out, these numbers would be even bigger.

Get this, we'd get bigger buyouts than Franklin. Approximately $11,000 have larger buyouts written into their contracts than James Franklin, including the University of Georgia's Kirby Smart. Now, if the Bulldogs, for whatever reason, decided to get rid of him, I'm not sure why they would do that, but if they did, he would make over $100 million from his buyout. Whew!

Now, this is one end of the economic spectrum. What about the U.S. median household? What are we talking about there?

[23:59:55]

Well, the median U.S. household, based upon their income, it would take about 594 years of the U.S. median household income in order to make what James Franklin is making in his buyout. That's a whole heck of a lot of lifetimes. And those are your Monday Night Facts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COATES: Wow! And the players are getting how much? Harry Enten, thank you so much. And hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.