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Laura Coates Live

Outrage in Minneapolis After ICE Agent Shoots Woman in Car; Trump Administration Defends ICE Agent Who Killed Woman in Minneapolis; Eyewitness Describes Seeing ICE Agent Shoot Woman in Car; Kristi Noem Defends ICE Agent's Actions in Shooting; Outrage Over ICE Shooting in Minneapolis. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired January 08, 2026 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:14]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to a second hour of LAURA COATES LIVE. I'm right here in Minneapolis where people had been peacefully protesting, and also grieving the loss of life of a woman killed by an ICE agent. 37-year-old Renee Nicole Good was shot in her car just this morning, not far frankly from where I stand right now.

But there are two competing and different narratives that they're forming over whether the shooting was justified by that ICE agent. The administration is arguing that it was self-defense. But the DHS Secretary Kristi Noem says the woman was committing an act of terrorism, domestic terrorism. Meanwhile, state and local officials are pushing back hard, along with many community members I've spoken with.

Mayor Jacob Frey says the explanation from the federal government, his words, "bullshit." Governor Tim Walz is calling it propaganda, and there are still a lot that we do not know even this evening. But we do have multiple videos showing different angles of this shooting. And here's the first, which was recorded from near the side of the car.

Now a warning it is difficult to watch this video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No! (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) god. What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You just (EXPLETIVE DELETED). What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) did you do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And here is the second video taken from an even higher vantage point. It was a bit further down the block. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) god. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: CNN's Omar Jimenez here with me this evening. We are learning a lot tonight. Not enough for people to be satisfied. They know the full extent of what's gone on here. But local officials, they are slamming ICE. They're even coming into Minneapolis or even coming here in the first place.

Talk to me about the scene. What do we know in this moment about their presence and what happened here?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, there's a lot leading up to this even prior to the shooting. There was a lot of politics back and forth over a reexamination of what has been a well-documented welfare fraud scandal here in Minnesota. But that sort of lends itself to very high level politics. War of words between the president of the United States, Governor Tim Walz, and then there were said to be thousands of federal agents deployed here to Minneapolis as part of an immigration crackdown.

Now, we've seen in previous cities many forms of immigration crackdowns where you have federal agents sort of roaming out through portions of the city. You see interactions that sometimes are tense or event violent with those out in the community. So there were questions over what that federal law enforcement presence would actually look like here in the city. And when you look at the events that unfolded today, I think for many in the community that were -- that were nervous about them being here, this was sort of their worst fears playing out in real time.

COATES: The through line between what we're seeing today and what we've seen across the country, and also back when we were covering George Floyd's murder here in the protests that followed was distrust for law enforcement.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

COATES: This is not the Minneapolis Police Department that has been involved in this, but they are in some ways a part of the greater law enforcement community and have been criticized about the presence of ICE and about what they're doing with them here.

So talk to me about this use of deadly law force here, lethal force by ICE agents and that fear being realized a few blocks really from where George Floyd was killed, given the aftermath of the mass exodus of a number of officers here in Minneapolis. JIMENEZ: Yes. Yes. I mean, we are less than a mile from George Floyd

Square, where we are right now and where we're standing. We're just feet from the vigil that has really grown and what became, unfortunately, a final resting place here. And you talk about sort of the difference in agency that did the killing, in this case, federal law enforcement. Previously George Floyd, local law enforcement.

That pain translates jurisdiction or goes beyond jurisdiction. Of course, you know, you look at the facts, some might say, OK, this was ICE as opposed to local law enforcement, but that sort of fear of betrayal of people that, in theory, are supposed to protect and serve and make communities safer is all the more consistent with what has been felt here for years and in the aftermath of George Floyd.

[00:05:12]

Now, I will say in the past year and change since the since President Trump took over for the second term, there is a specific type of anger levied towards Border Patrol, towards ICE agents, and particularly their presence in cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, Minneapolis, here as we're seeing.

COATES: Chicago was a huge example of the distrust, right?

JIMENEZ: Huge example.

COATES: There was a recent issue where the story that was first presented by ICE and by Noem was very different than what the videos revealed.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Very different. There was that case of the woman, Marimar Martinez. She was -- had been following federal law enforcement and the Department of Homeland Security claimed that she rammed a Border Patrol officer's vehicle that led to the agent shooting her five times. In the end, the prosecutors dropped the case against her, as her defense attorney basically said that they just didn't have -- if they went to a trial, wouldn't have backed up what they saw.

But one of the similarities is, in that case Martinez was shot five times. Now she lived, but she was shot five times. And in this case, we now have much more video than we did in that case from multiple angles showing how this played out. But this one went differently. And we have someone who lost their life.

COATES: A few feet from where we're standing right now.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

COATES: Omar Jimenez, thank you so much.

I want to bring into the conversation and talk more about this a retired ICE agent, Eric Balliet. He also led internal investigations into use of force allegations against ICE officers.

Eric, I'm eager to talk to you because you hear Homeland Security claiming the woman, quote, "weaponized her vehicle, attempting to run our law enforcement officers in an attempt to kill them in an act of domestic terrorism." I'm quoting what they've had to say.

Tell me what you saw in watching those videos.

ERIC BALLIET, FORMER ICE AGENT: Thank you for having me, Laura. I wish we were meeting under different circumstances. I've watched the videos a number of times. They're disturbing and troubling to watch. As a father myself, I'm very empathetic to the loss of life and to Miss Good's family. And there's, you know, obviously, the agent who was involved in the shooting, his life will be forever altered as well.

I think in looking at the video there are some concerning aspects of it, to say the least. I think if you look at it through two lenses, you have the law and policy. And then on the other hand, you have training and judgment. And at times those two things can be in conflict. Something can be legally permissible under the law, but doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do, or poor planning and judgment put agents or officers in that deadly force position.

And in my assessment from the video that appears what has happened.

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: But where does this fall on that continuum? Go ahead. Where does that fall? I want to I want to understand you clearly.

BALLIET: Number one --

COATES: On that continuum you're talking about, do you think that the officer involved followed the use of force guidelines that were given from the security department?

BALLIET: I think at the end of the day, the investigation is going to show that. Every one of those rounds is a conscious decision of deadly force. So from what I've seen, there were three rounds fired in rapid succession almost in a matter of a second or two. However, each one of those decisions to pull that trigger is the -- is the performance of deadly force, the execution of deadly force.

So I think the ballistics will have to show which round was fired first, which round was the fatal one, things like that. That being said, a human versus a vehicle loses every time. And early in my career, I stepped in front of a vehicle on a traffic stop, and a supervisor pulled me to the side and told me, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was in the Border Patrol. Vehicles moved two directions. They moved forward and back. They don't move laterally.

If you're in front of a vehicle or behind a vehicle, you have now put yourself at risk should that vehicle move in either direction. So cognizant of that, the placement of the officer or how he ended up in the position where he's off that right quarter panel, front quarter panel, driver's side quarter panel I think it's something that needs to be certainly looked at from a training and judgment stance. I don't see the tactical advantage from intentionally placing yourself in front of a running occupied vehicle. COATES: So address two concerns a community has raised. Number one,

that the officer simply could have moved out of the path of the vehicle if they felt they were in harm's way. And number two, we are learning from Noem that this officer had been dragged previously. I think it was in June.

[00:10:03]

Do you think that, one, the decision not to just move out of the way will be impactful in an investigation? And number two, has his previous experience of having been dragged, would that factor into how you assess the reasonableness of his use of lethal force today?

BALLIET: Those are great questions. I'll take them one at a time. Number one, I don't think that the fact that he was previously dragged should have an impact as to whether the force that was used today was justified or not. Each of those, each of those incidents should be evaluated separately. That to be said, it is impossible to erase the experience from your psyche. So sure, that experience of being dragged will certainly have an impact on the mental state of that agent or officer.

Secondarily to that, I, again most of these shootings if you look back over the months, Los Angeles, Chicago, New Orleans, New York, all of these ICE shootings, I believe there's eight or nine of them collectively have all involved vehicles. So, again, I wrestle a bit with the training and the judgment and the operational planning and execution that goes into these operations. The -- and introducing a vehicle into an already tense situation --

COATES: Let's talk about that, Eric, because --

BALLIET: Yes.

COATES: No, I -- please finish your point.

BALLIET: I'm sorry, Laura.

COATES: But I would like to address because you're talking about training a couple of times and I think it's really important one to underscore. And just last week ICE touted hiring 12,000 officers as part of the immigration crackdown the president has issued. But that's led a former ICE director to worry about the training that they're actually getting in real time. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ICE ACTING DIRECTOR: My immediate concern is this. To what extent has this rushing of hiring people, this short cutting on our training, to what extent might that have informed what happened here?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: OK. So can you describe a little bit for our audience how does the training normally work for the ICE agents? How long are we talking about? Is it comparable to what a police officer would have to be trained on on the use of force?

BALLIET: Great question, Laura. Short answer is yes. When I went through training it was two distinct courses. There were -- and it was basically six months, six months, five days a week, no days off. All of that. You are -- run through scenarios of use of force. Shoot, no shoot. How to tactically maneuver around vehicles, through buildings, through rooms, de-escalation, use of force continuum, how to elevate the use of force, immediately bring it down appropriately.

All those things, and I do think Director Sandweg's concerns are well placed. My understanding is that between the new hires that the agency has been putting through, as well as the rehired, and new in the program, you run the risk of having outdated training policies or agents and officers out there that are not fully trained in the environment that they're going to work in. And, unfortunately, these incidents are becoming far too common.

COATES: Eric, thank you for your insight this evening.

BALLIET: I hope the -- my heart is with the city of Minneapolis. I hope that everything remains peaceful and I do believe that there will be a fair and impartial and objective investigation that's done into this. I have confidence in the system in that regard.

COATES: The community wishes for your confidence as well. Thank you so much.

Back with me, former police chief of Minneapolis, Medaria Arradondo is here with us right now.

Chief, you know that federal and state law enforcement agencies are handling the investigation. There's a concern about trust, obviously, but tell me about the timeline here. How long do you think before the public will get a definitive account? I mean, they've seen the videos, theyve seen multiple videos, but when would they -- when might they get a definitive account of what the investigation reveals?

MEDARIA ARRADONDO, FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE CHIEF: You know, in these sorts of officer-involved shootings, it can literally take several months. What the community, I believe is going to want is a thorough, transparent investigation. They're going to want updates along the way in terms of how the processes of the investigation is taking place. I know that there's been talk by both local and state officials about also conducting their own independent investigation. So the community also has that.

But because this can take some time, I think it's going to be incredibly important for officials, both federal and our state and local officials, to continually communicate and give updates to the community as this is going underway, because, as you just mentioned, trust is going to be so very important.

[00:15:04]

Many in the community right now are feeling obviously traumatized again. COATES: Right.

ARRADONDO: And so that trust is fragile.

COATES: And they're going to be comparing it, not on what normally happens without videos being readily available. What they'll say, we're waiting to find out any information. People hearing the investigative results are going to be comparing it to what their eyes have already shown them in multiple videos and angles they have seen.

Tell me your assessment having looked at the videos, and I understand there are limitations and investigation has not happened. But you were the chief of police in Minneapolis. You know what reasonable force looks like and does not look like. Do you have concerns about the statements that this is justified?

ARRADONDO: Yes, the concerns that I have when you look at that video is going to be, was the officer, did they feel that they were actually having an imminent threat against them, the partner or other bystanders? There's going to be obviously called into question if the victim was not a subject of or target of that operation, could the officer have gotten out of the way from the vehicle? Could they have identified the -- or the person in the car through the license plate, through other means?

So that's going to be really important. You know, you had stated earlier that this same ICE agent was involved in a vehicle incident earlier this past --

COATES: Having been dragged in some capacity this summer.

ARRADONDO: Have been dragged this summer. Yes. But you have to separate those. You can't use that to judge the current situation that just happened. And so each case has to be judged on their own merit. That's --

COATES: But on that point, I don't want to cut you off but this is an important point. And I -- it piques my curiosity because I can imagine in an investigation, the officer being interviewed and being asked about whether it was reasonable and him looking at, I'm assuming it's a man, him looking at his past experiences and saying, based on my judgment and expertise and my experience, I felt X was reasonable.

How do you assess reasonableness in an investigation like this if you don't go to what has happened to them in the past?

ARRADONDO: Well, again, the reason why it's so important to judge this on its own merit, the other incident, we don't know if that person that the officer, the ICE agent had been involved with before, were they armed? Had they made a threat to that officer in the past? Were there other incidents of violence leading up to that encounter? This --

COATES: Context.

ARRADONDO: Context is so critically important. And so this is why you have to judge this on its own merit. And so, that's why it's also going to be very important again, Laura, for investigators to make sure that theyre at least updating the community on the processes of this investigation because trust is critical here.

COATES: How about the presence of other officers who were on the scene, who did not draw their weapons or shoot? What impact will that have?

ARRADONDO: Well, you being the lawyer, that also brings it to account the reasonableness. If other officers did not feel that there was that much of a threat, they're going to obviously have to talk to them. There will be witness or witness statements, officer statements. That's all going to also play into that effect. Did other officers feel as threatened as the other officer who actually -- the involved officer who actually fired their weapon?

So all of that, that context is going to be so critically important. And what information did they have leading up to the encounter?

COATES: How about the actions of the officers afterwards? The video obviously shows the point in time when the shooting occurred and the car veering off and frankly ending up just a few yards from where you and I are standing right now. But the absence of officers involved in the shooting, running to the car to give aid and assistance, does that going to impact the fact that they did not do that? That shows something.

ARRADONDO: That will certainly be a part of the overall, investigative look. But --

COATES: About thinking about a continuing threat.

ARRADONDO: Yes, but this is why local law enforcement, you know, they're trained much more in these circumstances, in these situations, you know, local officers, Minneapolis police officers, when they know that a subject is wounded, they immediately, that's part of their training, that's part of their tactics. They immediately rush whether they're giving gauze pads or just trying to stop the bleeding. That's what they do. And they do it really well.

And so -- but what you just mentioned, that's all going to be a part of it, you know. But again, context is going to be very critically important. And making sure that they're updating the community along the way in terms of the investigative process, to make sure that they keep that trust there.

COATES: I wonder if there's a requirement that the person who is in the shooting, like if it was an officer in your department, they would have to be placed on leave immediately for the investigation. Is that right?

ARRADONDO: That would be --

COATES: Is the same for ICE?

ARRADONDO: That would be standard for local, certainly in Minneapolis. COATES: But not the same for ICE.

ARRADONDO: And I don't know their processes.

COATES: I don't either.

ARRADONDO: Other than Secretary Noem had stated that the involved officer was taken to local hospital, checked out and is back with his family. Now I don't know, again if they're placed on some sort of federal ICE administrative leave or not.

COATES: I'm going to find out the answer. Thank you so much, Chief. I appreciate your time.

ARRADONDO: Thank you.

[00:20:02]

COATES: There is so much more ahead tonight. An eyewitness who watched everything unfold from his front window tells us just what he saw. Plus, Governor Walz vowing for accountability. We'll talk about what that actually look like next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: We're following the breaking news here in Minneapolis, where tensions are continuing to rise. But they are palpable, sadness as well, after the fatal shooting of a woman by an ICE agent just this morning.

I want to turn to someone who actually saw it all unfold, Aidan Perzana, from his front window practically.

Tell me what you saw.

AIDAN PERZANA, EYEWITNESS TO MINNEAPOLIS ICE SHOOTING: So I woke up to the sounds of honking and whistles, which is the way that people in the neighborhood, you know, here, L.A., alert residents to ICE presence.

[00:25:02]

And I'd heard that a few times, but they usually were following vehicles as they were moving. This was sustained clearly very nearby. So I went to a window to watch, and saw the red Honda parked perpendicularly in the street with two men in full camo bulletproof vests. One by the driver's side door, one by the passenger side door. And there were six or seven, presumably ICE vehicles, black and white, unmarked SUVs, parked all over in the street. All sorts of angles.

And watched as a different third man approached the vehicle and started pulling on the driver's door handle. At which point she backed up and turned away from that man and tried to drive down the street.

COATES: Away from the officers. PERZANA: Yes. So the man who shot her had been on the driver's side

previously, and the man pulling on the door was obviously on the driver's side. She turned, you know, turned her wheel -- she backed up and turned her wheels away from them to drive down the road like she was perpendicular, backed up and drove like that.

COATES: And then you heard shots fired?

PERZANA: Yes. Three shots into the car, and it drove straight for like 30 feet, and I thought maybe the person would drive away. And then, you know, pretty quickly drifted into the parked car on the other side of the street and the telephone pole after that.

COATES: Could you see the driver?

PERZANA: I could not, which I'm kind of thankful for. I saw some pictures later and it looked pretty gory.

COATES: Did you see the reaction of the officer who shot at the car after the car was shot?

PERZANA: I wasn't watching the officer anymore at that point. I was watching the car. I was trying to see if the person would get out of the car. What would happen there? I saw some ICE agents run towards the crashed vehicle. But nobody seemed to pull her out or check on her. They were seemed more interested in stopping other people from getting to the vehicle than checking on her.

COATES: How long until help arrived? Even know if she had been harmed?

PERZANA: I'd say it was quite a while. I watched for maybe another 30 seconds or a minute, just to see if they would do anything, and when it seemed like they wouldn't I got fully dressed and got ready to go out into the cold and started watching from the street at that point.

COATES: What did you see then?

PERZANA: After a couple more minutes after that ambulance and fire truck arrived, but they were down at the end of the block and all of the ICE vehicles were blocking them.

COATES: So they couldn't come through?

PERZANA: They couldn't come through because of all of the parked cars. People on the sidewalks and boulevards were screaming at the agents to move their vehicles, to let the ambulance through. And I couldn't hear what they were saying back to the people. But I heard someone scream like, what do you mean it's not your truck? Like, what do you mean you don't have the keys? And they didn't. I never saw the ambulance get to the vehicle.

COATES: Did you ever see her body removed from that vehicle?

PERZANA: I didn't see it myself, but what I've heard from multiple people who were watching were that she was carried out by four people on foot who just carried -- COATES: To get to the ambulance.

PERZANA: Yes. To get to a stretcher that was somewhat nearby, but not immediately there. So they carried her body for a little while anyway.

COATES: How are you processing all that you saw in that moment?

PERZANA: Well, I haven't had too much of a chance to absorb it yet as I gave my statement to some reporters who were on the scene, and I've been contacted by many reporters to give my account of things.

COATES: Of course. How are you feeling in this moment?

PERZANA: Shocked, a little frazzled from repeating it over and over and over again, and all of the coordination and the scheduling and the delays and all of the craziness that is live television, as well as, I mean, concerned for the block, the neighborhood, the city going into the future, I mean, especially in the next week or so. But, you know, as we see the rest of the presidency play out with ICE in this sort of outsized role in, you know, a northern city. And we'll see what happens.

COATES: Thank you for joining. I'm sorry what you had to bear witness to today. Thank you.

PERZANA: Thank you.

COATES: Aidan Perzana, everyone. Thank you so much.

And ahead, the calls to prosecute the officer. Could he actually face charges? We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, DHS SECRETARY: It's very clear that this individual was harassing and impeding law enforcement operations. Our officer followed his training, did exactly what he's been taught to do in that situation, and took actions to defend himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:34:32]

COATES: DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, justifying the actions of the ICE officer just hours after the shooting occurred.

But Noem says there will be an investigation. Now, the question everyone's asking is what will that look like exactly?

I want to bring in former federal prosecutor and the president of West Coast trial lawyers, Neama Rahmani. Also here, civil rights attorney here in Minneapolis, Katie Bennett. Glad to have both of you here.

Katie, let me begin with you here, because use of force is a phrase that people are going to hear throughout the course of this investigation. It will be, essentially, the investigation.

[00:35:08]

Describe to me what that term really looks like for the purpose of an investigation.

KATIE BENNETT, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right. So, for purposes of civil rights investigation, you're looking at that from an objective, reasonable standard. The officer's subjective intent does not matter. His view isn't relevant.

And I think what's important here, with regard to the use of force, is that none of the other agents even drew their weapons. So, you have one shooter; other officers that are exposed to this allegedly dangerous woman and conduct on her behalf who didn't unholster their weapons and never did. And I think that's going to be a key factor here.

COATES: So, the objective reasonableness to the eyes of other officers or everyday people, how is that standard deployed?

BENNETT: It's -- it's the officer, a reasonable officer at the scene under the totality of the circumstances faced there.

COATES: So, those officers are going to be very important, thinking about that, as well.

Neama, I mean, Trump issued an executive order, Neama, just last year on policing, which ordered the A.G., the attorney general to, quote, "provide legal resources and indemnification to law enforcement officers who are accused of wrongdoing."

So, walk me through how that order might impact this investigation.

NEAMA RAHMANI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Laura, you better believe that there's going to be a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of Good's family. So, there's no question. That's a simple negligence standard. And that's just about money.

But obviously, there may be a criminal prosecution, as well. I can tell you that there's no way this Department of Justice is going to prosecute this ICE officer in today's political climate, but that doesn't mean that state prosecutors can't.

And like Katie talked about, when you talk about self-defense, it's something that applies both in the civil and criminal context. It's a complete defense if it's objectively reasonable.

If it's unreasonable, then that's the basis for civil liability, paying money; or potential manslaughter charges.

And Minnesota is also unique in that they have imperfect self-defense. If that ICE agent genuinely but unreasonably believed that he was an imminent risk of death or serious bodily injury, and that's why he shot, that's manslaughter under Minnesota law. And of course, Minnesota makes it even more complicated, because they

also have third-degree depraved-heart murder, as well. So, there's a lot of different possibilities here, if you start parsing the homicide statutes there in Minnesota.

COATES: Given the Derek Chauvin trial, the community here well-versed in the different levels of -- of actions and -- and causes of action.

And yet, this distinction we're talking about, Katie, between a criminal prosecution, potentially, whether that may or may not happen, and civil rights-based litigation. Is there a difference in terms of how the investigation would unfold, then, if the eye is not towards prosecution, but instead to a civil rights case brought not on behalf of the government but by the family themselves?

BENNETT: No. You know, I think we're going to all be looking for the same types of evidence, right? There's some that we know here today from the video evidence available to us, as we, you know, are talking.

And then there's some that we don't know: probably some additional video that'll be helpful. The autopsy and forensic results of that will be important.

You know, the training, and things like that, that the ICE officers received, or didn't receive, is all going to be important.

So, I think we're going to be, you know -- both sides will be honing in on some of the same key pieces of evidence.

COATES: What does discovery look like? Obviously, transparency is a word I'm hearing a lot of: the community talking about accountability. Transparency could involve, Neama, the idea of identifying who the ICE officer is.

Certainly, if there is a civil rights lawsuit filed, it would include knowing who that person would be as a plaintiff or defendant in an action. So, does transparency, will that be impacted by which route is taken?

RAHMANI: Well, certainly, when that civil lawsuit is filed, the plaintiffs will be able to conduct discovery. And really, the best discovery in this case, Laura, is the video.

We've seen, obviously, the two videos from the rear of the vehicle. We've seen the one from the front that's farther away. Really, the shooting ICE agent's body cam video, that's going to be, by far and away, the most important. We have not seen it. That ICE agent will be named as a defendant and will be identified in the lawsuit.

And some of the things Katie talked about is really the reasonableness, right? And once we get that video, we're going to see: was it reasonable for him to position himself in front of this vehicle? Was it reasonable for him to use deadly force?

[00:40:04] Again, you can't use deadly force just to shoot someone who's fleeing, even if they're a fleeing felon. You have to arrest them. That's what judges and juries are for.

You can't allow police officers -- whether state, federal, local -- to be judges, juries, and executioners. That's why that body cam footage is going to be the dispositive footage in this case.

Was that officer hit? When did he pull his weapon? And why did he shoot? Those mere microseconds, they're going to matter, Laura.

COATES: Katie, we're talking about one ICE officer. But you heard Kristi Noem, secretary of homeland security, describing that he was following training.

Is there a discussion to be had about a larger investigation into the training apparatus, or even the agency itself?

BENNETT: I certainly, as a civil rights attorney, would be interested in that, for sure. And some of the video footage shows some amateurish actions on behalf of the officers.

For example, the contradictory commands that they're giving to the individual in the vehicle. Right? Some are telling her to leave. Some are telling her to get out of the car. Which one is she to obey?

That, and some of the other actions that we've seen, you know, question -- it shows that there's some questions about the training that they have received and the qualifications.

COATES: Neama Rahmani, Katie Bennett, thank you both.

RAHMANI: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: What I'm hearing behind me is a great deal of whistle blowing. As you know, you've heard that whistles are used to identify the presence of ICE agents. It's surrounding even the area around the vigil.

And up next, the ICE officer's actions are raising eyebrows even within the law enforcement community. A former detective and former FBI agent is going to tell me why, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:46:24]

COATES: Two very different narratives coming out of the deadly shooting right here in Minneapolis. The president and his administration calling it self-defense.

But Democrats, they don't see any justification for the ICE officer to have killed 37-year-old Renee Nicole Good.

CNN's Elex Michaelson live for us tonight, tracking the political reaction to all of it. Elex, what are you hearing from both sides of the aisle?

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Laura, there is perhaps no issue that divides the country more than the issue of immigration and, specifically, immigration enforcement.

We're talking about two completely different political universes for the two parties' bases. Let's show you some of each, starting with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the Democratic base.

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REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This has now turned into what our greatest fear is and has been for a long time around ICE: that this will be used as an anti-civilian force that has no accountability.

At the end of the day, what we saw today is a murder. And murders in cold blood need to be prosecuted.

I think what we saw today was a manifestation of every American's worst nightmare, which is their government turning into a tyranny.

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MICHAELSON: So, she's using the word "murder."

Kristi Noem, the secretary of homeland security, called the driver, in this instance, a "domestic terrorist."

Here's how the vice president of the United States, J.D. Vance, talked about it, showing how the Republican base is seeing this. This is a tweet.

He says, "You can accept that this woman's death is a tragedy while acknowledging it's a tragedy of her own making. Don't illegally interfere in federal law enforcement operations and try to run over our officers with your car. It's really that simple."

So, you see completely different extremes in terms of the reaction to this.

Some in the middle may see it as she shouldn't have driven away, but she maybe didn't deserve to be shot for that. But you don't see that, necessarily, driving the argument on the two political bases that drive social media.

And -- and you think about this, Laura, this issue of immigration, it drives fundraising. It drives the base. It drives voting.

And for that reason, we haven't seen meaningful immigration reform in this country in 40 years, because the parties have been unable, for generations now, to come together and deal with some of the biggest immigration issues in our country. This problem continues for year after year after year, and it seems like we're even more divided now, Laura, than we've ever been. COATES: Unable or unwilling? You rightly outlined the issues. Elex

Michaelson. Thank you so much. I'm going to see you shortly for your show, THE STORY IS at the top of the hour.

I want to talk now to some law enforcement experts about what they see in this case. I've got retired NYPD detective Dave Sarni, who's here; along with retired FBI supervisory special agent Daniel Brunner. Glad to have both of your expertise tonight.

Daniel, I'll begin with you, because I wonder what types of precautions you think will be necessary to ensure safety and nothing like this happening again, as these ICE operations are continuing?

DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Well, it begins and ends with training. And it's -- it's something that we were trained on countlessly, endlessly, at our firearms instructors at the FBI in Newark and at Quantico. It's training on how to deal with a situation.

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One of the things is special agents are not cops. We are not police officers. We don't deal with encounters often. But what we do get is we do get training on how to do vehicle stops and what not to do; what not to create the situation; how not to cross in front of a vehicle, because that may create the opportunity that a life-threatening situation may come up.

So, there are countless types of situations here in when we Monday morning quarterback this situation, of what occurred that night. But -- or this -- this afternoon.

But there has to be accountability. There has to be a look at the training to find out what this officer trained, how it was trained, and make sure that this doesn't happen again. It starts and stops with the training right there.

COATES: The training is undoubtedly going to be at least described in the days to come to officers who are in other locations, let alone here.

Dave, I want to bring you what one of our viewer questions is, a really intriguing one. And here it is. "Should an officer, who just recently was hit by a vehicle and dragged 50 feet, be on duty?"

Now that's the incident that was referred to by Kristi Noem that happened in June. What do you think?

DAVE SARNI, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, thank you for having me.

But again, this deals with the protocols, procedures of federal law enforcement. They make the decisions on whether to bring you back to active duty or not.

That's something -- could that happen? It seems to have happened. That happened in June. He comes back to -- to work again. You know, we've had situations where police have been involved, have

been injured on duty, and have returned to full active duty. So, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be denied to work.

The reality is, and the unfortunate aspect of this is, when you're seeing this video -- and I'm going to stick to the video primarily, and the incident itself. There has to be -- and I don't know how -- how much they've worked together as a unit. Because when you have, unfortunately, you have conflicting answers, conflicting ways, and or actions, or activities made by -- by members of your team, that can cause confusion.

I don't know why the individual in the car drove up to -- in the middle and impeded the traffic of law enforcement. I don't understand why that happened.

But as far as the instructions given and the abilities of the law enforcement to end that situation, didn't go the way they wanted it to. I don't think anyone walks out and goes, today's the day I'm going to shoot somebody in a car.

COATES: Daniel, let me bring you another viewer question. People are really, really invested and intrigued. The question here is, "If ICE agents are required to wear body cams in Minneapolis." Now, our sources tell us that they're not. Would a lack of body cam video be problematic in this investigation?

BRUNNER: I think in this situation, it really would be. It would be problematic, because it provides a lot of the -- the documentation of the incident occurred.

Obviously, there were a lot of witnesses who used their phones and were able to see the incident, you know, front and center.

And this really goes back to another situation, which I've looked at, of how quickly that scene was cleared. If this was an FBI shooting, that scene would still be under control -- FBI control. Your evidence response teams would be in there. They would be interviewing every single person that was there. Every officer would get a full interview. Everybody would be documented. Every body camera would have been received. Every phone would have gotten downloaded by the evidence response teams. Everybody would have been documented as part of the interview.

I find it alarming that all the ICE agents apparently, allegedly, the individual who -- the officer who conducted the shooting was off-scene within minutes. And within two hours the scene had been cleared, the vehicle had been removed. All the evidence, physical evidence, documentation, everything that could have been collected by the FBI investigation in the Minneapolis division was all erased.

It would have taken hours. A shooting review team would have been flown in. This has been -- this would have been quite alarming.

So, I think a lot of evidence that could have been collected, interviews where all the individuals were right there. This is -- just amounts more work for the FBI to conduct this investigation, because they have to go find these people now.

So, there's a lot of problems here in -- but the body cams would have provided excellent intelligence.

COATES: I mean, that tells me, as a prosecutor who used to try cases, if memories fading is a possibility. I want to have the team that's investigating on the scene for as long as possible.

Dave, let's talk about the investigation into this shooting, though, because I want to know how it will be investigated in determining whether it was self-defense, as the administration claims. What evidence, to you, will be the most important?

SARNI: Well, the testimony of the officer who was involved in the shooting; the testimony of the other officers there; testimony from witnesses; the video evidence that's been obviously put out there and been viewed numerous times in different angles in different, fast speed, slow speed.

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But what it comes down to is, as these investigations take place, every officer -- this officer is allowed due process, like every other, like everyone else. You're allowed due process to go through this procedure.

You know, you're dealing with a crime scene. At that point, I'm going to think possibly, they wanted to break the scene down relatively quickly, given the safety of the officers there. So, they get -- they escort that officer off to the hospital.

You know, we've had shootings in New York City with officer-involved shootings, where the officer who's involved in the shooting is taken to the hospital to check for trauma and anything along those lines.

So, this isn't unusual. The speed in which it happened probably deals with the safety of the officers involved. That's one thing you have to look at.

And we try to make these things do -- we want to do it the right way. And that's what it comes down to. You want this investigation to be done the right way.

And I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be. And again, it's going to be based on the evidence -- (AUDIO GAP) -- circumstances. And again, was it reasonable for the officer to utilize force at that point?

COATES: Dave, Daniel, thank you both.

We've got more breaking news coverage out of Minneapolis ahead. I'll be here with Elex Michaelson at the top of the hour right after this short break.

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