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Laura Coates Live

Trump Cranks Up Election Fraud Claims And Tells Republicans They Should Take Over Voting; Search For Nancy Guthrie Continues; Clintons Agree To Testify In House Epstein Inquiry; Trump To Close Kennedy Center For Two Years To Renovate; Jury Finds Brendan Banfield Guilty Of Double Murder. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 02, 2026 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE, AUTHOR: Health care should remain free in Brazil and should be free in the United States.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are glad you were with us today. OK. After all --

JOE BORELLI, FORMER NEW YORK STATE REPRESENTATIVE: That's pretty deep. I just said free bathrooms. You know, you go to Europe, you have to dig around your pocket for a drink or to take a pee. It's ridiculous.

PHILLIP: All right. Chris?

CHRIS MADEL, FORMER MINNESOTA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. Minnehaha Falls in Minnesota. It's beautiful. And they're getting closer and closer to paying for parking. They're getting closer and closer to giving admission.

CHRISTINE QUINN, FORMER SPEAKER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: It should always be free to run up the iconic steps in Philadelphia like you are Rocky and jump around on top with your hands up in the air.

PHILLIP: We'll leave with that, everyone. Thank you very, very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, President Trump cranks up his election fraud claims to 11 and tells Republicans they should take over voting. One little problem with that is called the Constitution. Plus, rapid developments in the search for the mom of "Today" anchor Savannah Guthrie. Police now believe she was abducted from her bed in the middle of the night. Do we have any leads on who took her? And after initially refusing, Bill and Hillary Clinton have waved a kind of white flag and agreed to the GOP demands to testify in the congressional Epstein investigation. Why the change of heart? Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

So, do we really need to? I guess maybe we do. Again, the Constitution is not optional. Not if we really are the United States of America. It's the governing document that describes our core values. It outlines our freedoms and codifies the separation of powers.

Now, I know most people hear that term "separation of powers" and think of the democratic trifecta of three co-equal branches: legislative, executive, judiciary. The separation of powers also includes the distinction between the feds and the states. And nowhere is that distinction more clear than who gets to run their elections. Now, President Trump is trying to suggest his party can change that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (voice-over): The Republicans should say, we want to take over. We should take over the voting -- the voting in at least -- places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. We have states that are so crooked, and they're counting votes. We have states that I won, that show I didn't win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, there's a lot wrong with that. And I'm going to spare you the fact check on the states Trump didn't win. But the whole nationalizing elections thing, well, let's look at the Constitution, shall we? In fact, Article 1, Section 4, because it says that times, places, and manner of holding elections is handled by, you guessed it, the states.

And that is true even when we're talking about federal offices like Congress. Now, Congress, they can set election rules by law to ensure elections are fair. Think of the NVRA and motor voter registration or UOCAVA governing military voting overseas or the Voting Rights Act.

But Republicans have long argued that Washington shouldn't be meddling with state rights, like when my husband jokes that I can either tell him what to do or how to do it, but never both. Same concept.

But it is Trump who is still wed to the idea that he was robbed at the 2020 election, even though he wasn't. And now, he says that the system is so rigged in some states -- he says what? Fifteen of them -- that we ought to forget about that little constitutional detail and let the feds just take over the whole operation.

Yet, that's not a thing in a democracy. You have to amend the Constitution if you want it to be, and that's no easy feat. And that's also by design because if it were easy, the Constitution would be at the mercy of every political will or tantrum.

Federal government can't just ignore the Constitution and command a state to hand over the reins or the voter rolls. The administration has demanded that dozens of states do just that.

It took an FBI search and a warrant to get 700 boxes from an election office in Fulton County, Georgia. Trump's director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, was there. And now, you know, we're learning the day after that search went down, she called President Trump and put him on the phone with FBI agents who had carried out the raid. One source tells us Trump directed Gabbard to go to Georgia for the search, which is interesting because it was just yesterday that DOJ's number two, Todd Blanche, told CNN that he didn't think Trump had anything to do with it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The president told reporters -- quote -- "They got into the votes. You're going to see some interesting things happening." What interesting things is he talking about and why was he so involved in an FBI and DOJ raid?

[23:05:01]

TODD BLANCHE, UNITED STATES DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, just because he said that doesn't mean that he's involved. I don't believe he was involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Believe it. Fast forward to tonight when he was put on the spot about Trump's conversation with FBI agents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCHE: The president talks to law enforcement all week long. And so, the fact that he talked with agents that are working hard doesn't surprise me. Actually, I love it. It's great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: If you like it, I love it. I know what that means. So, one day, Trump is not involved. The next day, it's great that he's chatting with agents about seizing 2020 ballots. Now, those goal posts, they're moving pretty fast and it makes it pretty hard to believe whether Blanche actually knew what was happening or whether he was misleading when he said that he didn't know Tulsi Gabbard's role in all of these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCHE: She wasn't at the search. She was in the area where the search took place. She is not part of this investigation. She hasn't said that. But on the other hand, she's an expert in this space, and the president trusts her and expects her to be part of the team investigating election integrity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: In the area of the search. Now, that almost sounds like she's just taking a stroll through the neighborhood and was in the area of the search like my fifth-grade teacher would call a coinkydink. No, because -- you know what? We actually have a letter from Gabbard to Congress tonight saying that she was there to observe the search at the request of the president. A lot to unpack tonight, right? Well, guess what? We have our legal and our law enforcement experts here to walk us through all of it, including the commissioner of Fulton County. Marvin Arrington, Jr. will be filing a motion over the FBI seizure of those 2020 ballots, including a request to have them returned. Commissioner, welcome. Thank you for being here. I've been curious about your insight. What do you hear when President Trump says that Republicans should take over voting?

MARVIN ARRINGTON, JR., COMMISSIONER, FULTON COUNTY: Well, I hear that he is basically tearing at the fabric, the fabric of our democracy, right? The sacred trust between the voters and the election process. And he is sowing seeds of distrust. And, you know, the trust between voters and the election process is so fragile. And so, I hate to hear him making those statements. And we in Fulton County are going to do everything we can to protect the residents of Fulton County.

COATES: He seemed to be planting a kind of seed when he says that some interesting things would be coming out of Georgia. Georgia went through a machine and a hand recount. Do you have any idea what he means when he says that the administration might find something interesting?

ARRINGTON: No. No idea because if he's looking at the ballots that he -- that they took from Fulton County, those ballots indicate that he lost the 2020 election. There were three recounts. There was also an independent audit by the Republican-led state election board, as well as the Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, and Republican Governor Brian Kemp. That all confirmed that our elections in Fulton and in Georgia were free and fair elections.

COATES: Commissioner, lawyers for Fulton County are looking to fight back against the administration over last week's FBI raid. You've been calling it to question its legality. What specifically are you asking the courts to do?

ARRINGTON: Well, we're asking the courts. I mean, in ideal world, we want all of the records back, right? But, you know, it almost doesn't matter at this point because now, the chain of custody has been broken. And so, even if we got the records back, we don't know that we would get all of the records back or if he found those 11,000 folks he was looking for back in 2020. And so, we're asking --

COATES: Well, normally, commissioner, you would have an inventory of what was taken. That didn't happen here?

ARRINGTON: No. They refused to allow an inventory. So, that is one of the things that we will be asking for, a forensic inventory of all documents. But you're correct, the only way to preserve the chain of custody would have been for that inventory to occur at the time of the transfer.

And so, we're also going to ask for the records to come back to Georgia, right? We believe that those records should be here, that there's no reason that they should be in Virginia. And so, we're going to take every step that we can to push back on this request and protect the residents of Fulton County.

COATES: Commissioner Marvin Arrington, Jr., thank you for joining us.

ARRINGTON: Thank you so much for having me, Laura.

COATES: I want to turn now to CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst and former assistant director of the FBI, John Miller, on what we're learning about DNI Tulsi Gabbard's presence at that search in Georgia last week.

[23:10:03]

John, I mean, Gabbard, she writes in a letter to Senate intel committee that she was present at last week's FBI raid, so there's no more hypothetical here, and that the president directed her to be there. Is this somehow in the DNI's wheelhouse?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: So, not exactly. The DNI has no legal authority in the DNI charter to conduct investigations or to oversee or influence investigations by another agency.

However, as we get into the grayer areas here, there are some statutes like 50 U.S.C. 3024, which says the DNI is entitled to all intelligence from all other agencies in the intelligence community. So, the FBI has to tell her if they're finding foreign influence in an election.

There's 3059, which basically says that the DNI has the responsibility to analyze, not investigate, any indications of foreign influence in elections.

And there's an executive order that was signed by Joe Biden and extended by Donald Trump saying threats to election from foreign powers is a state of emergency and the DNI has a role there.

COATES: OK.

MILLER: But you don't see the head of the intelligence community, that is to protect us from foreign threats, on the scene of a criminal investigation with, you know, domestic investigators involving U.S. persons. That has never been done before.

COATES: You've got the deputy A.G., Todd Blanche, saying that she was not at the search, that she was in the area.

MILLER: Oh, she was in the area.

COATES: I mean -- yes, she was in the area because she's just taking a walk and oh, is there a raid here in Fulton County? Got it. I think I'll check in for a second.

MILLER: Well, she --

COATES: He also -- go ahead. MILLER: She was in the area of the command post vehicle, the FBI vehicle that was in the garage of the election hub center where they were coordinating the search efforts. So, yes. Was she back there going through the boxes, fingering the ballots and thumbing through them? No. Was she at the heart of the location where they were coordinating a criminal search in Georgia based on a warrant, based on an affidavit from a U.S. attorney in Missouri? If it sounds odd, it is. But yes, she was there.

COATES: How about the fact that Gabbard also corroborated earlier reporting that the president spoke directly with agents a day after the FBI raid for a brief -- pep talk was the phrase. Does that put agents in a predicament, John?

MILLER: Well, it does. It raises two questions. Number one, what was Gabbard doing, talking to those agents? They are not in her chain of command. The deputy director of the FBI was present at the scene of the search warrant, which is also unusual and relatively unprecedented. But why is the director of national intelligence shooting the breeze with the squad that's working the case and the supervisor, let alone putting them on the telephone with the president of the United States?

But the predicament you suggest is, if there ever is a charge, if there is a case behind all of this somewhere where somebody is brought to the bar of justice, they have basically created a defense where lawyers are going to say, well, was this done the normal way or a very unusual way? Well, what was your role there? What were you doing there? Did you put the agents on the phone with the president? Did the special agent in charge of the Atlanta field division of the FBI have to resign a few days before this raid because he wasn't willing to go forward with it with his agents?

And now, the supervisor of that squad who helped prepare the warrant is talking to the president. Is all of that normal? We don't know why the special agent in charge quit his job several days before the raid. But what we have seen is a long series of FBI officials who, if they were not willing to go along with things they thought were unreasonable or illegal, had to go. So, that's something we're still looking into. But what did your third-grade teacher used to call that?

COATES: Coinkydink.

MILLER: That was it.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: You can go ahead and put that on a t-shirt, John Miller. Nice to see you, my friend.

MILLER: You, too.

COATES: I want to take a step back with the investigative reporter who co-authored the definitive book at this point on President Trump and Fulton County in the 2020 election, "Find Me the Votes." It's no coinkydink that Michael Isikoff joins me right now. Michael, I mean, look, stranger things have happened, but this is top 10.

MICHAEL ISIKOFF, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, CO-AUTHOR OF "FIND ME THE VOTES": This is up there.

COATES: It's up there. I mean, the president is calling on Republicans, first of all --

Yes.

-- to nationalize elections, to take control from the states. That is directly antithetical to what the Constitution says. It's their lane. Are there other guardrails in place?

ISIKOFF: You know, guardrails in this administration do not seem to be particularly rigid or forbidding for them.

[23:15:00]

But, you know, there are so many. We learned tonight a new information.

COATES: Yes.

ISIKOFF: And from -- you mentioned Gabbard's letter.

COATES: Yes.

ISIKOFF: And, by the way, not only does she confirm that the president told her, but she also mixing her role with the FBI's role. She says she has designated the FBI special agent in charge in Atlanta as a domestic DNI representative, and she has done this in other offices. Her justification in the letter is that this is a national security issue. She brought officials from something called the National Counterintelligence and Security Center down with her to Fulton County as part of --

COATES: But why Fulton County?

ISIKOFF: Well, remember, Fulton County is -- that was Trump's obsession. That's where he thought that the election was stolen from him in Georgia. You know, he has been obsessed with that. But Gabbard keeps presenting this as there's a foreign threat.

COATES: Right.

ISIKOFF: That's her justification. And then at the end of the letter, she says, because she's writing this to members of Congress who are saying, why didn't you tell us about any of this? And she says, well, you know, this search was done under a sealed -- under a sealed search warrant signed by a federal magistrate. As such, I have not seen the warrant or the evidence of probable cause that DOJ submitted to court for approval.

So, is she -- first, after telling us this is foreign election security, this is counterintelligence, this is national security, she says, well, how do they really know? I didn't see what the basis for this is.

But while she's not saying it, Trump, the night of the search, after the search, was tweeting on social media up a storm. What was he -- he was repeating the most bonkers conspiracy theories from 2020, including one pushed by QAnon, which was that Italian -- an Italian aerospace company hacked -- with money diverted by President Obama hacked the military satellites to switch votes from Trump to Biden.

Mark Meadows, then the chief of staff in 2020, sent a QAnon video to the Justice Department saying, look into this. You know what the response was from the deputy attorney general, the guy? This is in Trump's Justice Department. The guy who has the same job that Todd Blanche has.

COATES: Yes.

ISIKOFF: Pure insanity. Pure insanity. And his secretary of defense also was ordered by Meadows to look into it. He went back and he said, this is done crazy.

COATES: Well, Michael, your focus, and there has been a focus on Fulton County, but I wonder, in a look ahead to, say, the midterms and, obviously, 2028 --

ISIKOFF: Yes.

COATES: -- there seems to be a thought. This is all part of a larger framework and setting the tone for later. And you see in Texas, there was an upset by a Democrat. Bellwether County in Texas, as a matter of fact. A Democrat. It was an area that Trump won by double digits in 2024.

ISIKOFF: Right.

COATES: When you look at Fulton County versus other states and other areas, do you see a correlation that is triggering some sense of fear around the elections?

ISIKOFF: Yes. Oh, listen, I mean, there's no -- all you have to do is read the polls. There is real fear inside the White House that they're going to lose the House, and then Trump will be impeached in early -- a year from now. He said that publicly, and that's why he's determined to make sure that doesn't happen by taking control of the elections in what he said, 15 states.

COATES: So, how would Gabbard's role, do you think, contribute in some way to that overall thought?

ISIKOFF: Cast a cloud over -- you know, there is some kind of counterintelligence, foreign operation that's manipulating votes. If that's the case, then there could be grounds for federal intervention. We don't know what they have planned, how they do it. But if you can cast a cloud over the elections, then you can, from Trump's perspective, undermine them.

COATES: He knows quite well that national security has been an area that he has been repeatedly deferred to by the Supreme Court and others because that's the purview of the president of the United States.

ISIKOFF: Right.

COATES: It can be untouchable. So, if that's the hook --

ISIKOFF: Yes.

COATES: -- I guess line and sinker. Michael Isikoff, thank you so much for joining.

ISIKOFF: Any time.

COATES: Up next, abducted? That's what officials say happened to Savannah Guthrie's mother. I'll bring you what Guthrie said about her mother's disappearance just moments ago and what is at stake at this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, SHERIFF, PIMA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: It is our belief she was removed from that home against her will. We hope -- we're racing the clock here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

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COATES: Please pray. That is what Savannah Guthrie is posting on Instagram tonight amid her mother's disappearance, a disappearance that law enforcement is calling an abduction. Eighty-four-year-old Nancy Guthrie was last seen on Saturday and reported missing after she didn't go to church on Sunday. This is what the Pima County, Arizona sheriff told my colleague, Erin Burnett, about their ongoing investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANOS: This isn't somebody who wandered off. This is an elderly woman, in her mid-80s, who suffers some ailments that makes her mobility, her ability to walk around very difficult. The family told us she couldn't go 50 yards.

[23:25:00]

And that in and of itself is a concern. But then we also have some things at that scene that indicate to us that she was removed from that scene against her will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Investigators are asking that you call the number on the screen if you see anyone who matches this description.

I'm joined now by former FBI assistant director, Chris Swecker. Chris, as you've heard, Guthrie was last seen on Saturday. And, as you know, those first few hours, few days are so crucial to any missing person's case. So, what should investigators be focused on right now?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISION: Well, as you point out, Laura, this is like a child abduction where, again, the first 48 hours are critical. She's not someone who's susceptible to being trafficked, say, across the border. So, I think that's not a likelihood here.

The sheriff has all but said this is at minimum an abduction or worse. So, it sounds like, you know, they have got to get help, and they have help from the FBI.

This is a fairly small sheriff's department, I've dealt with them in the past, and they're not going to be able to handle all aspects of this investigation, particularly video retrieval, cellphone retrieval, electronic mobile devices, any computers she might have.

Elderly is extremely vulnerable. And, you know, they will have to check on any contractor that worked on that house or was around the house. She's 84 years old. I'm sure she had help doing things around the house. So, there's a lot to look at here. And I think they need a lot of resources on the scene, which I think they have right now.

COATES: I mean, the sheriff said earlier, what they found at the house was, his word, concerning, and they couldn't ignore what they saw. They -- without providing further details. What could they have found that led them to believe that this was a crime scene, one, and that she'd been abducted?

SWECKER: Well, there are some reports that -- what was really telling was everything she really needed was left behind. Her car keys, her purse, all the things that you would take with you if you were going somewhere. Your medicine. She needs that medicine. She has to take it every day. And so, that's the first thing.

The sheriff has played it close to the vest, and I think rightfully so at this point because they may well have some good leads and they don't want to alert the subject that they have those leads.

And you also want to test out any information that comes in against those details that have been withheld because you'll have spurious -- you know, people come in and give any information, and they've heard it on the news. So, you want to withhold some details strategically to do that.

There could be signs of ransacking and theft and that sort of thing. There are things called express kidnappings where someone is taken and they go straight to the first ATM or to the bank to drain the money as much as they can, and they need the person present to do that in many cases.

COATES: My goodness. SWECKER: There's a lot of variables here.

COATES: There are. I mean, he wouldn't comment, as you mentioned, on much. And I understand the strategy you talked about. He also wouldn't mention whether she has sustained any injuries. But he did say, and this was very concerning, that homicide detectives are involved in the investigation. What does that signal to you?

SWECKER: Well, I would say a sheriff's department of that size, kidnapping and homicide are probably worked by the homicide division.

COATES: OK.

SWECKER: They're not big enough to divide that up. That's one thing. But, I mean, he's -- this sheriff has some what I would call tells. I mean, he's trying to withhold some details. But the fact that he's referring to the homicide unit, this tells me that this is -- this is very much like a child kidnapping where if you don't have that recovery very quickly, the odds are that you're not going to find the victim. I mean, you have a victim. So, it's hard to say. You know, right now, I don't want to put that out there too aggressively.

COATES: Of course.

SWECKER: But that is definitely in the -- this is -- that's the focus of the investigation.

COATES: I mean, this is the mother of a very high profile and beloved public figure, Savannah Guthrie. Her mother has appeared on the "Today" show so many times. And the close bond that they obviously share has been on full display. That makes people so endeared to her, both of them.

The sheriff told my colleague, Erin Burnett, that, so far, they have seen nothing to indicate this was a kidnapping for a ransom. But how might that possibility factor into the investigation as they're trying to even determine a motive here?

SWECKER: Yes, I mean, if you're going to kidnap for ransom, I mean, there's got to be a ransom demand in some shape or fashion. And they haven't really tipped that off at this point.

[23:29:58]

You know, they've made a fairly mild plea to the public to tip for some help, for leads, and ring video, and that sort of thing. But I believe they have cards they're are not showing. They may have a vehicle. There are -- it's an affluent neighborhood. That particular house had cameras. So, they may have some video footage. There's got to be a business district nearby and there's video footage from there.

So, they're furiously at work right now, reviewing that sort of thing. You know, the cell tower type of analysis, if you will. There's a lot -- there's a lot to look at here. And I do think they have some pretty good leads that they're running down very quickly. Just they don't want to tip that subject off at this point. COATES: Chris Swecker, thank you so much for your insight.

SWECKER: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: If any of you out there have any information about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, could you please call 520-351-4900. Again, that's 520-351-4900. It's on your screen. Take a picture of it. Keep it in your phone. If you have any information, I'll say the words of Savannah Guthrie in her latest post, bring her home.

Ahead, the Clintons will talk. Former president and secretary of state agreed to be deposed by the House Oversight Committee as part of their Epstein investigation. But the question is, when?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: An 11th hour capitulation by one of the most well-known political families in the country. Former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will answer questions before the House Oversight Committee about Jeffrey Epstein.

The committee's chairman, James Comer, had subpoenaed the Clintons. But earlier this month, they said they would not testify. This week, Comer threatened to hold a vote, finding them in contempt. The Clintons tried to negotiate but, in the end, caved to all the Republican chairman's terms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): We want to understand anyone that actually spent time with Jeffrey Epstein. We want to understand more about what Jeffrey Epstein did, who he knew, where he got his finances from. And, obviously, if there's any information about any abuse, we want all that information.

In addition to that, James Comer now has all the information, all the information from the Clintons that he wanted prior to the deposition. He has -- now, he has an opportunity to interview them along with us. They've accepted all of the terms. Now, let's hear from President Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Former President Bill Clinton appears numerous times in the Epstein files, including photos like this one of Clinton in a hot tub with what the DOJ says is an unidentified victim.

According to CNN analysis, Clinton and his staff flew on Epstein's private plane at least 16 times. Clinton has denied any wrongdoing and has encouraged for all of the Epstein files to be released.

Joining me now, former U.S. attorney, Harry Littman. Harry, for the first time in over 40 years, I think, a sitting or former president will be answering questions before Congress. This is extremely significant.

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: It really is, Laura. It's more extreme than that. This is since Thomas Jefferson, who refused a demand from Congress and set the precedent. We have one time only when a former president has testified. That was Harry Truman after he left office, and he insisted on doing it. No president or former president has been forced into this situation the way Clinton has, not to mention Hillary Clinton, who really is gratuitous here.

But, as you say, they caved to every demand. They had no leverage here. It's not simply Comer's insistence, joined by a few Democrats, but what would be the next step. The Department of Justice under Pam Bondi might just love to green light a contempt prosecution and put the former president in jail. He knew that -- as former chairman, Pelosi, said, he's looking at a real snake pit here. And basically, he had no leverage and no choice. And you're right, he totally caved.

COATES: Why did he have no leverage?

LITMAN: Because he was looking at a stacked deck, a rigged game, a committee that really is interested mainly in trying to embarrass him and, I would say, divert attention from President Trump.

Remember, when they first released a very small tranche of files, it was all about Bill Clinton, as if he's the most involved person. Seems quite clear that there has been nothing for 20 years. But they would dearly love to humiliate him, I think, both because of longstanding animosity toward Clinton and also because it's such an effective change of subject with Trump and Epstein.

COATES: Todd Blanche gave an interview earlier, and here was his take on what we've seen in the files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCHE: As you know, it is not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. And so, as horrible as it is, it is not a crime to email with Mr. Epstein. And then some of these men may have done horrible things.

[23:40:01]

And if we have evidence that allows us to prosecute them, you better believe we will. But it's also the kind of thing that the American people need to understand, that it isn't a crime to party with Mr. Epstein.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Did he have a point?

LITMAN: Well, it's true. A lot of tough talk. You know, there's an abiding mystery here, Laura, because they fought so hard and the president really, you know, woodshedded different people for voting to release it, then he was forced to. And at least, so far, we have nothing that spectacular. And also, you'll know this as a lawyer, they're supposed to give reasons for redactions --

COATES: Right.

LITMAN: -- which have been copious, and they really haven't. Yes, it's not a crime to party with Jeffrey Epstein, but it certainly can be a reputation or career killer. Look at Prince Andrew. Now, there's no suggestion that that's true of President Clinton, much less Hillary Clinton, but they'll be under the klieg lights and it'll be a humiliating afternoon that they just couldn't avoid.

COATES: In fact, in their letter, and I'm stuck on this idea of what took place a few weeks ago until now, in their letter to the committee just -- what? A few weeks ago? The Clintons refused to go before the committee. And they wrote this: "Indeed, bringing the Republicans' cruel agenda to a standstill while you work harder to pass a contempt charge against us than you have done on your investigation this past year would be our contribution to fighting the madness."

I mean, they were forceful. They claimed this was political. They would fight. Now, I mean, they'll speak. I would assume it's in part because of that looming threat of contempt and the precedent that that might very well set.

LITMAN: I would say that's in whole, Laura. They were really looking at it like a freight train. Indeed, Comer hasn't even said yet, after they've capitulated to all demands, that he's going to call off the vote for Wednesday, though I think it's quite likely that he will. But they were playing, you know, before a kangaroo court with another one in the background.

And even though it's a great indignity to the office of the president, not to mention the Clintons personally, they were completely left with zero leverage and looking at a real possibility that this president and this attorney general would relish the prospect of bringing criminal contempt charges against them if the House voted them out. They really tried very different ways, but they had no leverage or maneuvering room whatsoever.

COATES: Well, if a past president can testify, I wonder if a current one will as well. Harry Litman, thank you so much.

LITMAN: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Next, build it and they will come. After waves of cancellations at the Kennedy Center, the president announces he's closing it for renovations come this summer. The former advisor to the theater, Ben Folds, reacts after this.

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COATES: That was a song from musician Ben Folds and the National Symphony Orchestra, a song he wrote to protest President Trump's takeover of the Kennedy Center, notable tonight for several reasons.

For starters, Folds served as artistic advisor to the National Symphony Orchestra, which performs at the Kennedy Center, but he stepped down from that position after Trump became chairman of the board and began enacting sweeping changes.

The latest change? Trump announcing the Kennedy Center will close this summer for about two years for renovations. Sources tell CNN that there likely were not enough performers needed to the programming slate for the upcoming season. One source noting -- quote -- "The artist boycott across all genres was becoming untenable."

Joining me now for an exclusive interview, renowned singer, songwriter, and former artistic adviser to the National Symphony Orchestra, Ben Folds. Ben, good to have you here. I'm eager to get your opinion because, as you know, the Kennedy Center is one of the finest performing arts centers in the entire country. Do you think that the future of that center is really hanging in the balance now?

BEN FOLDS, EMMY-NOMINATED SINGER-SONGWRITER AND COMPOSER, FORMER ARTISTIC ADVISER TO NATIONAL SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA AT KENNEDY CENTER: Well, I mean, it seems like it is for the next couple of years. I mean, it seemed that way a year ago to me. So, yes, it's not in a good place right now. It's really sad because it's an amazing institution. I spent a good eight years of my life over there, a whole lot, and I love it.

COATES: In fact, you took the job under President Trump in his first term, then you resigned under his second. And you told PBS that if you stayed, you would feel complicit, like a kind of pawn. Can you explain what has changed for you?

FOLDS: Well, it didn't -- nothing changed for me. The circumstances changed quite a bit. I mean, the first -- the first administration was, you know -- I mean, it was -- I think it was all Trump appointees on the board and everyone got along great. It was quite the bipartisan feeling. Normal Kennedy Center. This time around, they came in immediately, got rid of everyone, and installed -- I mean, you know what happened. And that's just -- that's not -- there should be a firewall between the federal government and the arts, and there's not now.

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So, this is what -- this is what happens. You know, people who run arts institutions and artists know how to do their business, and these people don't know how to do it.

COATES: Let's talk about how artists have been responding, Ben, because recently at the Golden Globes, celebrities, they remain, I would say, pretty muted on politics. But then several musical artists did not hold back at last night's Grammys. Listen.

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OLIVIA DEAN, SINGER-SONGWRITER: I'm up here as a granddaughter of an immigrant. I'm a product of bravery, and I think those people deserve to be celebrated.

BILLIE EILISH, SINGER-SONGWRITER: No one is illegal on stolen land. I feel like we just need to keep fighting and speaking up and protesting. Our voices really do matter.

BAD BUNNY, RAPPER, SINGER: I'm going to say ICE out. We're not savage. We're not animals. We're not aliens. We are humans, and we are Americans.

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COATES: Ben, why do you think music artists have been more outspoken than, say, others in Hollywood more broadly?

FOLDS: Well, you know, musicians are the working class of artists. You know, we get paid for showing up. And we have to, you know, balance our own budgets. If there's no gas in the van, when you start out in the band, you don't -- unless your daddy has millions of dollars and you inherited that, like the president did, you have to understand fiscal responsibility. And I think that's one reason because we're small business owners.

So, I think we feel the need to speak up because we also come face to face with all these people and our audience. You know, you face Americans every day, of all walks of life in small midwestern towns, in Texas and Massachusetts, and you see what we all have in common. And I think that's what makes a musician compelled to speak out.

COATES: President Trump has suggested that the Kennedy Center was not going to be profitable because it had become too woke in its programming, that they weren't connecting with audiences. What do you think is the real reason? Is that it?

FOLDS: I mean, from a business point of view -- well, first of all, the Kennedy Center is not, you know, Madison Square Garden. It's not a -- it's not just a performance venue. It is -- it is a monument and it's an institution, and it is meant to celebrate arts in America for all Americans. It has a mission.

When I was booking programming over there, I was most excited about the differences between the Kennedy Center and a normal business because, you know, every kid should see themselves on stage. And the time that I was there, and I'm sure you're reporting and Washington Post and all, you know, could support this with the numbers for me, but it generally was in the black or close to in the black.

You know, Deborah Rutter did that, and that was amazing stewardship. And just unbelievable to see someone like that sent home because she was pulling off, not only putting everyone on stage, not only making it artistically sound, inspiring people. Kids just every day loved being there. It was so inspiring. This -- as far as I know, it's not doing well at all now.

COATES: Well, it will soon be closed for two years. Ben Folds --

FOLDS: Very sad.

COATES: Ben Folds, thank you.

FOLDS: Thank you.

COATES: Up next, the man accused of teaming up with the family au pair, who he was having an affair with, to kill his wife and another man found guilty. I'll tell you what he'll be facing, next.

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COATES: A verdict reached in the trial against Brendan Banfield. A jury found him guilty of murdering his wife, Christine, and another man, Joseph Ryan, who prosecutors say he catfished and lured to their home. The jury heard from his lover, the family's au pair turned state's witness against Brendan Banfield, who described the plan and fingered him as the mastermind.

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JENNA SANDS, PROSECUTOR: I think that everyone has commented on what was so obvious, that he was not truthful, that he was cold, that he behaved oddly in response to questions that should have elicited emotion.

STEVE DESCANO, COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY FOR FAIFAX COUNTY: He thinks about his wife and Joe, and about what a heinous thing he did, because that's something that he is rightfully going to have to live with for the rest of his life.

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COATES: In fact, the prosecution argued that the former IRS agent was in love with the family's au pair. They said that Banfield stabbed his wife and shot 39-year-old Joseph Ryan, who he lured to his home from a fetish site. He staged the crime scene that looked like Ryan was shot in an act of self-defense for his wife. Banfield then took the stand, claiming that it was Ryan who actually stabbed Christine Banfield.

But the au pair struck a plea deal with the prosecution, pled guilty to manslaughter, and testified against Banfield. Ultimately, the jury found the au pair more credible than the husband. He is expected to be sentenced to life behind bars without the possibility of parole.

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I want to thank you all for watching. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" starts right now.