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Laura Coates Live

Mystery Deepens Over Disappearance Of Nancy Guthrie; Trump Says It Is Time For Country To Move On from Epstein; Woman Dragged And Detained By ICE Speaks Out. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 03, 2026 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the mystery over the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie deepens. Multiple outlets get alleged ransom letters as police say they're investigating every single lead. Plus, President Trump says it is time to move on from the Epstein files. But is the country ready to do so? GOP Congressman Tim Burchett says not so fast. And Americans speak out against ICE on Capitol Hill, including a woman who told me about her story, about being dragged from her car. She's going to join me. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

She has been missing for nearly three days. They've got no suspects and time is not on their side. Police are scrambling to find Savannah Guthrie's mother, 84-year-old Nancy Guthrie, who was last seen Saturday night. Police believe she was abducted from her Tucson home.

Tonight, TMZ is saying it got an alleged ransom note, demanding a payment in Bitcoin for her release. A local TV station also says it received what appears to be a ransom note. Both outlets say they have told police. And the sheriff's office says it's working with the FBI to check all of the leads. Now, to be absolutely clear, we have no idea if either of these notes are legit. Police have been tight-lipped about releasing any new information.

The "L.A. Times" is reporting blood was found at the scene of Guthrie's home. But the sheriff, he isn't confirming that publicly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, SHERIFF, PIMA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We've submitted all kinds of samples for DNA. We've gotten some back but nothing to indicate any suspects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Police are also trying to pin down exactly when Guthrie was taken. Now, here's what we know about the timeline. She was last seen around 9:45 Saturday night when she was dropped off at home by her family. Sunday morning, relatives were told she didn't show up to church. They went to check on her around 11. It was around noon when they first reported her missing. Now, here's the dispatch audio from the sheriff's office shortly after.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Nancy, a white female, 84 years of age, 5'2", medium build. Nancy has high blood pressure, pacemaker, and cardiac issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Just before nine Sunday night, the sheriff announced a search and rescue. And by Monday morning, he confirmed her house was now a crime scene. A person close to the family is telling us tonight Guthrie is in serious danger without her medications and begging whoever has her to please drop her off anywhere. There would be no questions asked.

I want to begin with a reporter following this case very closely, Briana Whitney from Arizona's 3TV and CBS 5. She spent the day outside the Guthrie home while search operations continue. She is also the producer and the host of "True Crime Arizona Live." Brianna, thank you for being here. I mean, the nation is watching so closely and the sheriff is speaking outside about possible ransom notes. What, if anything, is he revealing?

BRIANA WHITNEY, REPORTER, ARIZONA'S FAMILY: Yes. This is such a bizarre investigation. I mean, take the high-profile nature out of it. This would be extremely unusual and odd even if you didn't have that high-profile part of this.

But what we know tonight is that there are multiple ransom notes that have allegedly gone out to multiple different media outlets. One of those is our sister station, KOLD, down in Tucson. What we can report tonight from that ransom note is that there was a deadline on it. There was a specific financial amount that's being demanded. And that something only the abductor or abductors would know about the scene itself. That's what we're working with there. Then you also have TMZ reporting. They also received a ransom note.

So, we've been able to collect some different information about what happened from there. According to the sheriff who reported this to CBS, and we work with CBS News, we learned that ransom note allegedly went to the Tucson station last night. They sent it to law enforcement who asked that they don't report that publicly. Law enforcement has been investigating it. The sheriff's department forwarded it to the FBI. The FBI felt it was important enough to show Savannah Guthrie, the co-host of the "Today" show and Nancy's daughter.

And that's where it stands tonight. Twenty-four hours later, since that note has been received, it is still under investigation. We are told by the sheriff and CBS News that they are still taking it seriously.

[23:05:03]

So, nothing has been ruled out. Like you said earlier on the program, we don't know if these are legit, we don't know if these are real, but we know they are being taken seriously because, otherwise, right now, there really are no other leads in the case.

COATES: This is terrifying for her family. So many people feel that they're extension of Savannah Guthrie and her family, having seen her mother so many times on the "Today" show and their love so evident. You were actually at Nancy Guthrie's residence today. Describe what you saw there.

WHITNEY: Yes. A couple very concerning things, and that was a word that the sheriff has used for several days now. One of those was the alleged ring doorbell camera that wasn't there. So, this morning, at the press conference, the sheriff said they are looking into if the ring doorbell camera was missing or taken from the home possibly by a suspect or the abductor. Looking at the home, now that the crime scene is processed, we could see that doorbell frame where it would be, and it wasn't there. So, confirmed it is not on the house.

But particularly more concerning was what's right below that. So, there's a front porch area with some tile, and that had what appeared to be dried blood splatter on it. Now, we have to couch that with -- the sheriff has not confirmed whether or not that is concretely blood, but it looked like it, and it was definitely what appeared to be that. So, definitely signs of concern in the front area of the home. And that's something we weren't able to see until today because they had to take down that crime scene tape to where we then had more access. So, we know that they're investigating that.

We also had a law enforcement source tell us there was blood found inside the home. We have not gotten our own eyes on that. But, certainly, seeing it from the front today, you knew that it's a serious situation and that was evident from the start.

COATES: And is it clear that if there were a ring camera there, that it was taken down by law enforcement or there to be processed in some way or the thought is it was taken down during whatever act occurred to remove her from the home?

WHITNEY: The understanding that we got from the press conference was that the sheriff believes it was taken down before they got there. So --

COATES: OK.

WHITNEY: -- however that was done, they're definitely trying to look into it.

COATES: Yes.

WHITNEY: The other factor that they're looking at, too, was just surveillance footage in general, right? You have that ring-type camera, that doorbell camera, but then you have other home surveillance, not only just in the neighborhood, but on Nancy Guthrie's home, allegedly, too. And the sheriff was telling CBS News and our partners tonight that as far as surveillance video goes, part of why nobody has seen anything is because they haven't gotten anywhere with that. They believe the system automatically deletes videos after a certain time. So, forensically, they're trying to go back and retrieve those videos tonight. Obviously, that would be so helpful.

COATES: Absolutely. And just traumatic to think about this process unfolding. When you've been in touch with Nancy Guthrie's church, Briana, what are they telling you?

WHITNEY: Yes. So, we knew that she missed church Sunday morning, right? That's when everything started to unfold. A concerned friend at the church had called her family, saying, Nancy didn't show up. She's very devout in her faith. She is very devout in going to church. So, they knew something was wrong. That's when the family got involved.

I called the church this morning. I talked to them on my way down to Tucson. And while they don't want to say too much out of respect for Nancy and the investigation, they said they are praying for mercy, they are praying for her safe return, and they are praying for her family. A simple statement but powerful.

COATES: We all are praying for her. Briana Whitney, thank you so much.

I want to turn now to retired FBI supervisory agent, James Gagliano, and former Navy SEAL commander and former hostage working group coordinator for the U.S. Embassy in Iraq, Dan O'Shea. Both your expertise will be really critical here.

James, I'll begin with you because the Pima County Sheriff's Department, they serve over a million residents. The sheriff has said in the past that they have, well, limited resources. The FBI is involved. Their name is on that tip line. Should they be taking the lead given the size of the Pima County force?

JAMES GAGLIANO, RETIRED SUPERVISORY AGENT, FBI: Sure, Laura. I think that's a tough call to make from this side, looking at it. I think there's certainly some things that could be tightened up here. I was quite surprised to see the crime scene be released so quickly. We know that this happened sometime Saturday night into Sunday morning. We're going on three days. We've just now discovered that there was blood spatter outside of there. There have been the questions about the ring doorbell. You're talking about a crime scene. The house itself is 3,100 square feet on a couple of acres of property in a rural area.

And here's the thing, Laura. It's only 60 or 70 miles from the Mexican border. I worked south of the border for a number of years, and I'm familiar with that area. I think the FBI is processing things. They're using their cellular analysis survey team, which handles all the things with the cellphone that was left on the property. And I'm sure they're getting some assistance with latent fingerprints and other forensic harvesting-type things. But, yes, I'm just a little surprised at how quickly the crime scene was released.

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COATES: A really strong point because, of course, then you might be missing things, crucial piece of evidence, if others are allowed to walk through the crime scene. Dan, I'm really fascinated about these ransom notes because it is common for investigators to receive tips in a very high-profile case, certainly like this one. But what clues do you look for in a kidnapping scenario? And how are you discerning when just the scope of tips is coming in and these different alleged ransom notes?

DAN O'SHEA, FORMER NAVY SEAL COMMANDER: Well, details are -- the devil is in the details. And what's in the ransom specifically gives you an insight, the motivations from the kidnappers and what they're asking for. Kidnapping can range from kidnap for ransom, for money. It can be for extortion, it can be ideological, it can be political.

I mean, in this case, I mean, really the only connection is that her mother is a very famous individual. And largely, people will target the mothers, the sons and the daughters of wealthy individuals because, obviously, they're loved ones and anyone would do anything to get them back. You know, I haven't seen what's in the ransom notes yet, but that will tell a lot about the group behind this.

And the concerning point is the fact that they -- if that was her blood and they use violence on the scene, as I understand what I've read, this wasn't a robbery. So, they were targeting her. And if it was just purely a money play, which is normally how kidnappings play out, it's a business. But if it's the violence that was displayed, that's more concerning and the fact we know she's on medication. So, every day this goes on without her medications, it puts her life at risk.

COATES: And on that point, the fact that we don't have a suspect that we publicly are aware of, the idea that there seems to be no trace, is this a very sophisticated operation?

O'SHEA: Well, you know, obviously, if they did indeed know that they were potentially being tracked by the ring camera. It sounds like it was more of a professional, as earlier alluded to by my colleague here.

If there was maybe a cartel involvement, if she was taken across the border, then we've got some serious concerns because rich people and famous people are targeted all the time. And someone like the mother or the son or a relative, it would be the likely source because, obviously, they want to go after, you know, Samantha herself because she's the one who has to come up with the ransom. But this is very troubling and this is not fit the normal profile of a kidnap for ransom scenario.

COATES: Let me talk to you about the cellphone, James, because you say that Nancy's cellphone that was left behind, it could unlock this case. Can you describe a little bit about the forensic information that you would be looking for to try to move the needle?

GAGLIANO: Sure. So, Laura, the terminology we use in the business is digital exhaust. And, obviously, in today's day and age, you know, you can -- you're picked up on cameras constantly when you go about your daily life. You obviously have the ring doorbell cameras that are in the neighborhood. Now, this is -- as you're looking at the pictures on the screen, this is more of a rural area. It's not Manhattan. It's not blanketed by cameras, but the digital exhaust of her daily life. You know, who did she search for online? Who had she called? Who could have possibly been hired to work there? Somebody she'd come in contact with in the last month.

And Laura, here's one other thing that they're digging into, any of the local state prisons or federal penitentiaries in the area. I would be scouring people that been released because everything comes down -- and it's not a homicide right now, even though homicide detectives are working this case, but everything in this business comes down to the four Ls: love, lust, loathing or lucre, money. And those are going be the four things they're going to look at.

Who is angry at her? Who is in love with her? Who could she have possibly owed money to? Or in this instance, are these ransom notes the true abductors or are people just jumping on board because they heard the story and they're trying to confuse the situation?

COATES: Dan, if these ransom notes are indeed legit and they reference Bitcoin, that disrupts the traditional notion of a location to drop a ransom, to possibly have an exchange, to foil what's going on. How does the introduction of Bitcoin or the threat of that complicate any investigation?

O'SHEA: Well, the reality is Bitcoin -- when a high-profile kid in the case like this happens, you get people that will come out of the woodwork claiming they are holding this person, which is why Bitcoin is so common in this because they're going to make the demand and they're going to rush to pay, get the money wired immediately by Bitcoin. And so, that's where these ransom men may not even be the group that's responsible for this.

[23:15:00]

That's the reality.

COATES: James Gagliano, Dan O'Shea, so complex and so unbelievably concerning. Thank you both for your insight.

Up next, the president says it is time for the country to move on from the Epstein files. Does Republican Congressman Tim Burchett think so? And what about having Trump show up to testify now that the Clintons have been compelled to? I'll ask him next. And what questions do you have about the Epstein files? Well, go to cnn.com/asklaura and let us know. We're going through them to answer those questions here on the show later this week. That's cnn.com/asklaura.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

COATES: The latest trove of more than three million Epstein files released by the Department of Justice failing to quell outrage as survivors demand answers over poor redactions. But President Trump says it is really time to turn the page.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think it is really time for the country to get onto something else now that nothing came out about me other than it was a conspiracy against me, literally, by Epstein and other people. But I think it is time now for the country to maybe get onto something else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Here to weigh in, a member of the House Oversight Committee that is leading a congressional investigation to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, Republican congressman from Tennessee, Tim Burchett. Thank you so much for being here. Obviously, you have heard the President of the United States saying that it is time to move on from the Epstein files. Is it?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I don't think it's ever going to be time to move on from -- you know, because of just the hype on all the sides. I think there's a lot of mistrust. You know, we went four years under the Biden administration and, actually, there's some investigation, apparently, under the Obama administration. And I keep going back to if there was something there on Trump, they would have -- you know, the politics would have entered into it.

And currently, now, it's just -- I'm not an attorney, you are, but the rules of evidence and the -- it has changed hands, so many different administrations and so much. And now, all the things that are coming out are just so outlandish. I'm not saying that they're not true but, to me, that could cast a little bit of doubt. And I hope we don't lose the focus on the victims. That is my major concern, the victims. I said, let's protect them. Some didn't want their names in, some wanted their names out, as you know. And, to me, that creates a lot of confusion.

COATES: Let's talk about the Clintons because they have agreed, as you know, to sit down before your committee and the House Oversight chairman, Comer, is open to public hearings but only after the private deposition. That's going to set a precedent, really, in many ways to compel former presidents in the future. And that could mean, one day, a former president named Trump as well, should you see fit. Should he be compelled to testify?

BURCHETT: If he's subpoenaed, I don't know how you're going to get out of it. I think we are creating an incredible precedent, though. And I would warn some of my colleagues. They've been down this road before with the Clintons. I mean, they're -- they-re incredibly gifted and, you know --

COATES: Meaning what?

BURCHETT: Don't count them out. They're not idiots. I mean, he's an old guy from Arkansas. He's a good, old country boy. He's a very popular president, two terms. If we didn't have term limits, he might still be in office. Ms. Clinton -- I mean, personally, I found them offensive many times. I don't consider them to be really good people, but they're incredibly smart. And she has been a former Secretary State. I've talked to former U.S. senators that served with her and said she was probably one of the more intelligent people out there.

And so, I would warn my colleagues. If they think this is going to be a gotcha thing, I think that you're going to get spanked. And I would say let's just stick to the facts. If there were laws broken, if they broke laws, let's talk about that. Let's stay away from all the hyperbole and all the craziness because there's plenty of that out there already. And I don't think we're serving the American public either.

But, again, I want to -- I think we need to be concerned about the victims. If there were young ladies that were abused, then that needs to be brought to light and there needs to be justice. But do I think there ever will be justice on this side of the grave? No, ma'am, I don't.

COATES: Some of the victims feeling injustice right now, even with the release of some -- even many of the documents because there have been redaction failures. And the DOJ released files. It did not include redactions that were expected, including protecting some of the victims. Some survivors were actually named, named in the actual files and in pictures, I should add. Was that an egregious mistake by DOJ? Was there something about the handling that gives you pause as to how that could happen?

BURCHETT: My mom never really trusted the DOJ under -- again, I'm not an attorney -- under -- under any -- any real administration just because the layers of the onion are so -- are so -- you peel one off and it's just another one under there and the bureaucracy there is pretty incredible. But the fact that somebody's name was put out in error or whatever, to me, is egregious.

COATES: I want to turn to something the president of the United States had to say, particularly given your experience as a state legislator. You know full well about the power and the autonomy of the states. So, the idea that president of the United States doubling down his call to nationalize elections, I'm curious your take. Listen.

[23:25:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want to see elections be honest. And if a state can't run an election, I think the people behind me should do something about it because, you know, if you think about it, a state is an agent for the federal government in elections. I don't know why the federal government doesn't do them anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Do you support his call to nationalize elections?

BURCHETT: I think there's going to be a time where we have to have a national discussion about that. And I do because what I think you've seen happened is the mistrust in elections. We've got 12 percent of population, probably on average, give or take, local, state, whatever, and there's a complete mistrust by the left and the right from this.

And what that looks like is when people, conservatives like myself here, nationalize in something, it scares the daylights at them. And it should because when my people are in power, that's great, but when your people are in power, that's not great. I mean, that is in the political realm.

COATES: Of course.

BURCHETT: So, I think what we need to do is put up some incredibly good laws. I support the Save America Act because I think if -- you know, I'm not a drinker, but in Tennessee, if you buy a six pack of beer, you got to show a dad gum I.D. And yet when you -- when you go to vote, you don't have to in a lot of states. And there's a mistrust element there.

COATES: Do you think that nationalizing or having federal government remove the reins from states who, by the Constitution, say that they're the ones to decide the time, place, and manner, would that increase the trust of the public or decrease it?

BURCHETT: Well, I saw some recent polls, and it shocked me, really, because it was a very high number of Democrats and an incredibly high number of Republicans. I would call it a super majority. And I just think that we have created such a debacle with our elections.

And the mistrust, we see people -- you know, we've seen this thing in Georgia where there's 25 people registered at a piece of real estate that has a nice porta potty. You know, you see things like that. But the problem is -- is that both parties are crooked when it comes down to it to get -- to get in power. I honestly think that it's just human nature. I think that the Democrats are more crooked than the Republicans are, but because I'm a Republican.

But the reality is the public does not trust what's going on in elections and for good reason. You have the mistrust of certain types of machines and yet -- and then at some areas won't touch them because they say they're shady. And the other people say, no, we think they're great. And then that just creates a misbalance.

Now, I don't know what the answer is. I mean, if I was king, everybody would trust what we're doing because we do it right. But the problem is Tim Burchett is not a king, ma'am. And there's a lot of people, there's a lot of bad actors out there.

I trust what the president is saying. I know what he's saying. He wants to put good barriers in. An attorney told me one time, good fences make good neighbors. And I think we need some good fences in our election laws in this country.

COATES: Well, you know who didn't want a king and wanted a patchwork of how elections are run? The founders of this country.

BURCHETT: You're exactly right.

COATES: So, we'll have to see what happens next. BURCHETT: I would be a terrible king.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: We don't want one in America. It's OK.

BURCHETT: No, ma'am, we don't. We had a war over that. Yes, ma'am.

COATES: Congressman Tim Burchett, thank you so much.

BURCHETT: Ma'am, it's always a pleasure. Please pray for our country.

COATES: Ahead, Michigan secretary of state speaks out, and she's no fan of the Save Act. We'll hear her side next. But, also, her car window broken, her seatbelt slashed. You remember this? Aliya Rahman testifying to Congress today about that violent detainment in Minneapolis. She'll be right here on set after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALIYA RAHMAN, DISABLED WOMAN DRAGGED OUT OF CAR AND ARRESTED BY ICE: I was carried face down through the street by my cuffed arms and legs while yelling that I had a brain injury and was disabled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: It was a gut-wrenching day of testimony on Capitol Hill as U.S. citizens shared firsthand accounts of their aggressive encounters with federal immigration agents. But the forum began with testimony from the brothers of Renee Good who spoke publicly for the first time nearly a month after she was killed. One of them began with his remarks with a plea for help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKE GANGER, BROTHER OF RENEE GOOD: In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation, thinking that perhaps Ney's death would bring about change in our country, and it has not. These encounters with federal agents are changing the community and changing many lives, including ours forever. I still don't know how to explain to my four- year-old what these agents are doing when we pass by.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: We also heard from someone we spoke to right here on this very show, Aliya Rahman. She's the woman you're looking at right now who was forcibly removed from her car as she drove through a protest area in Minneapolis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNKNOWN: Take her out!

RAHMAN: I'm disabled.

[23:35:00]

COATES: You can actually hear her shouting "I'm disabled" to those officers. DHS has called her an agitator that they arrested for, their words, obstruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But Aliya says she was just trying to get to a doctor's appointment. Listen to how she described those very moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHMAN: Shooting pain went through my head, neck, and wrists when I hit the ground face first and people leaned on my back. I felt the pattern. And I thought of Mr. George Floyd, who was killed four blocks away. I now cannot lift my arms normally. I was never asked for I.D., never told I was under arrest, never read my rights, and never charged with a crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Aliya Rahman joins me now. That was extremely emotional testimony. Difficult, I'm sure, to even watch what happened to you in Minneapolis. Why did you feel compelled to share your journey and your story?

RAHMAN: Yes, thanks for having me back and asking that question. Again, what we see in that video is absolutely wrong and a violation. But the thing that keeps me up at night now is the faces of the people inside that detention center and all of the work that we've done over decades to try to deal with a problem like this. And I feel a very urgent empathy and a duty to those who did not get to come home. Yes.

COATES: I want to play the moment you described what happened inside that facility. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHMAN: I pleaded for emergency medical care for over an hour after my vision had become blurry, my heart rate went through the roof, and the pain in my neck and head became unbearable. It was denied. When I became unable to speak, my cellmate pleaded for me. The last sounds I remember before I blacked out on the cell floor were my cellmate banging on the door, pleading for a medic, and a voice outside saying, we don't want to step on ICE's toes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: It's unbelievable, what you have described. How have you been processing all that has happened to you? RAHMAN: Yes. I don't know that I have been able to process a lot of what has happened to me because we are still so very much in the middle of this kind of action in the city where I live.

I went back to that intersection for the first time just a couple of days ago. And, honestly, I couldn't get my eyes off of the house near the intersection where they had taken those two young kids out of. I've just been wondering what happened to them, you know? And I live in a neighborhood where it feels like the streets are weeping and at the same time vibrating with people trying to do something about this.

That's what it feels like. I feel like there is a wait. And my greatest fear is that I won't say the right things that the people who aren't being allowed to speak need me to say or that I'll go through a day like some of us did today and there won't be action. We need to do something about this.

COATES: Do you think your words will spur action, particularly among members of Congress?

RAHMAN: Well, I hope more words than just mine. I mean, one thing that I experienced there today was that I heard Representative Summer Lee connect this for us and give us exactly the right instructions about what should happen with ICE, what an old problem this is. I heard Representative Lateefah Simon say, if you want to know what to do, listen to those women of color organizers who have been talking about DHS for 22 years. And I heard Representative Ayanna Pressley tell us exactly which legal loopholes need to be closed so that there isn't such an easy way to get away from accountability for federal officers.

It seems like the solution is right there for us. And when I talk to Ms. Good's brothers and Mr. Rascon (ph) and Ms. Martinez (ph) after the hearing, people were just saying, it's right there, it's right there for us to pick up and do this. So, we need Congress to act, yes.

COATES: Can you take me inside of that Whipple building we know that has come under scrutiny?

[23:40:00]

Can you describe what it was like inside that facility?

RAHMAN: Yes. From an audio perspective, nonstop laughter from agents, absolute silence from people chained together in lines. All Black and brown people being marched around. Outdoors at first. I was out there, too. And the word "bodies." I've said this before. And just chaos. Chaos. Agents constantly asking what was supposed to happen next. People not knowing where things are. And people like me pleading for basic things that should be available to human beings like medical care. Yes.

COATES: They have described you as an agitator, as somebody who was trying to obstruct what they were doing. What is your response to the way that they are trying to depict you?

RAHMAN: Well, frankly, I think focusing on my driving is a massive distraction from what we should actually be talking about, and I think that's intentional on their part. The facts are out there. I mean, many outlets have verified I was on the way to my 39th appointment at that traumatic brain injury center. I instead created a traffic jam.

I actually did comply with some of their instructions. But what is somebody supposed to do when you're told multiple different things from all sides and some of those are conflicting things? I actually at one point said, I will move. It's captured on video. So, I'm not the only one who has been hit with.

What I've noticed, as I said before, I am an autistic person who -- not all autistic people are like this, but I love patterns, there's definitely a pattern here. We are brutalized and it's like DHS immediately has disinformation about us ready to go. And then that story tends to fall apart. I'm confident that will happen with me. And I'm not afraid of people who are saying those things about me. It's just not true.

COATES: Aliya Rahman, thank you for joining us and telling your story. It's very illuminating to so many things that are important. Thank you.

RAHMAN: Thank you.

COATES: Up next, it's her job as secretary of state to oversee elections in Michigan. So, what does Jocelyn Benson think when the president says it should be the federal government's job instead? You know what? Why don't I ask her after this?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: As much as the president wants to have the federal government run state elections, he can't just snap his fingers and make it so, because in case anyone needs a refresher, I bring you Article 1, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution because it clearly states the times, places, and manner of holding elections for senators and representatives shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof. But the Congress may any time by law make or alter such regulations.

The president seems pretty adamant about making a change. Why? Because of his longstanding and baseless conspiracy theory that he actually won the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Go to 2020. Look at the facts that are coming out. Rigged, crooked elections. If we have areas -- take a look at Detroit, take a look at Pennsylvania, take a look at Philadelphia, you go take a look at Atlanta, look at some of the places that -- horrible corruption on elections. And the federal government should not allow that. The federal government should get involved. These are agents of the federal government to count the votes. If they can't legally and honestly, then somebody else should take over.

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COATES: Joining me now is the official tasked with running Michigan's elections, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, who's also running for governor. Secretary Benson, I am very curious on your take. The president mentioned specifically Detroit as a problem. What goes through your mind when you hear the president push to have the federal government run elections in a state like yours?

JOCELYN BENSON, SECRETARY OF STATE, MICHIGAN: Well, thanks for having me. And I think what goes through my mind is three things. First, here we go again. I mean, time and time again, we have shown the receipts that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, and it was because state officials stood up and protected the votes of citizens in Philadelphia, in Detroit, in Atlanta, that we actually were able to protect that election and ensure democracy prevailed.

But secondly, the question is, why now? Why rehash these long disproven conspiracy theories? And, you know, it begs -- he's a very unpopular president in this moment. He has implemented a lot of policies that have driven up the cost of living exponentially in Michigan and other states. And so, this also feels like an effort to deter us from holding him accountable at the ballot box this fall in 2028 by suggesting falsely or could have any role overseeing elections.

Elections are run by the states. We do it very well with integrity, securely, and effectively time and time again. And we invite everyone to look at the transparent evidence that reinforces that fact. And this underscores again why it's so important that state officials protect democracy because it's not a partisan issue and it should be done by the bipartisan professionals that do it in states like Michigan.

COATES: Let's talk about what partisan officials are doing in Washington, D.C. or saying. Speaker Mike Johnson suggested it would be unlikely for elections to be nationalized. Well, true, because it'd have to change the Constitution. While Majority Leader John Thune flat out said he's not in favor of the idea.

[23:50:01]

What is your response to Republicans who are expressing these views about the president's intentions?

BENSON: Well, it underscores that protecting democracy, the integrity of our elections, and the Constitution itself is not and should not be a partisan issue. And it reminds me of the Republican state senators who oversaw and asked questions about our elections here in 2020 and found indeed those results were accurate and the elections were secure.

So, we welcome transparency, we welcome questions about the elections, but we really need to center on facts and ensuring that facts and the law are followed in protecting citizens' ability to hold their leaders accountable. And I'm grateful for leaders on both sides of the aisle who agree with that, see with that, and will stand by that.

COATES: Let's talk about what's going on in Michigan because the Bureau of Elections, they recently investigated claims, as you know, of 15 non-citizens being on voter rolls in Macomb County. Now, I understand the review found that one non-citizen did vote in a 2018 election, but had the registration canceled in 2022. And another vote in 2024, but is still being investigated. What do you say to Republicans who will then use examples like this to try to push legislation like the SAVE Act, which would require people to show a passport or a birth certificate in person to then register to vote?

BENSON: Well, exactly, as you said, Laura, you have to look at this with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. And what the Bureau of Elections found in Michigan with those allegations of 15 voters potentially being unable or ineligible to be registered to voting was that a lot of them were actually U.S. citizens. In fact, one person who voted and was accused of being a non-citizen who voted truthfully was a citizen who was eligible to vote and cast their vote in an election.

So, we have to be very careful. All of us are committed to ensuring that only eligible citizens are voting in our elections. But in Michigan and in many other states, we have layers of protections in place to ensure that these efforts are fact-driven and according to the law and don't result in eligible citizens being blocked from exercising their constitutional right to vote.

COATES: Travel south with me because we've learned that Trump asked the DNI, Tulsi Gabbard, to play a role in investigating claims about the 2020 election, and that includes the most recent FBI search in Fulton County, Georgia. Here's what the White House press secretary had to say today.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Tulsi Gabbard has been tapped by the president of the United States to oversee the sanctity and the security of our American elections. She's working directly alongside the FBI director, Kash Patel. This is a coordinated whole of government effort to ensure that our elections, again, are fair and transparent moving forward. I don't see anything wrong with the president tasking cabinet member to pursue an issue that most people want to see solved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Do you take issue with Gabbard's role in investigating the elections?

BENSON: Yes. I mean, look, the folks who actually can be trusted to securely and effectively administer elections are the bipartisan professionals on the ground in Fulton County, in Georgia, in places like Michigan and all across the country, people who sign up who are experts in this work and know exactly how to ensure our elections are secure.

And, again, we welcome people asking questions when it comes to these conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. They have been hashed and rehashed and reexamined multiple times. In Georgia, state officials conducted a full-hand recount, affirming the results of the election. In Michigan, we conducted over 250 audits after the 2020 election, all of which reaffirmed the results.

So, these questions have been asked, they have been answered, and they've been conducted with integrity by state officials who know the law, know the rules, and operate transparently in a bipartisan way to protect the will of the voters and the voice of every citizen in our state.

COATES: Election integrity, so critical. Jocelyn Benson, thank you so much.

BENSON: Thanks for having me.

COATES: Next, one of the biggest stars of the Olympics vowing to compete despite a massive injury. But should she?

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LINDSEY VONN, ALPINE SKI RACER: I know what my chances were before the crash, and I know my chances aren't the same as it stands today, but I know there's still a chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[23:55:00]

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COATES: It's almost midnight here on the East Coast, which means it is time to chat with our favorite West Coast anchor, Elex Michaelson, and not because you're the only one.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: I was going say, the only West Coast anchor. So, you have not insulted anybody else by doing that. But thank you. I'll take it.

COATES: But I have shared my love for you. So, there you go. Let's talk about the love of a huge Olympic favorite, Lindsey Vonn, because she is still eyeing that Olympic comeback even after a crash that left her ACL completely ruptured. Listen.

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VONN: I am confident that I can compete on Sunday. So, this is not obviously what I had hoped for. I've been working really hard to come into these games in a much different position. I know what my chances were before the crash, and I know my chances aren't the same as it stands today, but I know there's still a chance. And as long as there's a chance, I will try.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: What do you think, Elex? Right decision? I don't know how you move with a torn ACL.

MICHAELSON: I mean, literally, how does this work? I don't understand the physiology of it. We've seen certainly when basketball players tear their ACL, they literally can't move. And the idea of going down and skiing, I don't know the extent of it. But, I mean, if she won, it would be like one of the greatest victories in the history of sports.

[00:00:01]

COATES: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Right? I mean, I think you remember Kerri Strug in 1996 --

COATES: Yes, I do.

MICHAELSON: -- when her leg was injured and she -- and she had that incredible moment in gymnastics. I mean, it would really be something.

COATES: But, you know, that happened in the middle of the games. I wonder if the person who might be next in line is saying, well, if you can't compete, can I go in your place? And there's I'm sure someone a little bit salty right now thinking about that. But you know what? I've never been an Olympian.

MICHAELSON: Getting another chance at this. And she was winning a lot of the competitions coming into this. This was not just -- you know, it was -- she had a real, real, real good chance of winning the gold.

COATES: Look, go USA. I'll chant nonetheless. Have a great show, Elex.

MICHAELSON: Have a good one, Laura.