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Laura Coates Live
Increased Police Activity at Nancy Guthrie's Home; Interview with Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-N.Y.); Bill Gates Denies Epstein Claims; Savannah Guthrie Makes Emotional Plea for Safe Return of Her Mom; Nancy Guthrie Missing for Four Full Days. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 04, 2026 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: ... we knew that there would be mistakes.
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Epstein survivors are outraged.
SHARLENE ROCHARD, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Publishing images of victims while shielding predators. It's just a failure of complete justice. Why should anybody come forward, because the justice system is not going to be the justice system.
LEE: M.J. Lee, CNN, Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thanks to M.J. for continued incredible reporting on this. And thanks to all of you for joining us tonight. AC360 begins now.
[20:00:31]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, breaking news. A significant new police presence at the scene of Nancy Guthrie's apparent abduction.
Also tonight, new developments from the Epstein files on a billionaire, a former prince and whether Congress should call the President to testify.
And later, keeping them honest, just a day after doubling down on his call to nationalize elections, the President tries to tell tries to tell voters not to believe their lying ears, but we've got the receipts.
Good evening, I'm Jim Sciutto in for Anderson tonight. And breaking news, crime scene tape, which was put up in just the last hour at Nancy Guthrie's home in Tucson, Arizona, was taken down just moments ago. Part of the increased police activity now underway there. It has now been four full days since Mrs. Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of "Today" host Savannah Guthrie, went missing. She was last seen at the home around 9:30 on Saturday night when she went safely inside. As the hours ticked by with no answers, The White House says President Trump reached out and spoke to Savannah earlier today.
NBC News reports he assured her that every federal resource will be available as needed. Pima County investigators believe that Nancy Guthrie was forcibly taken in the overnight hours of Saturday night. Her family discovering her missing around noontime on Sunday, and they now say that they are reviewing a possible report of trespassing that occurred near the house on January 4th.
More new information today, a source says that her pacemaker last sent a signal to her iPhone around 2:00 Sunday morning. The phone was found inside the house, and now at least three media outlets reported receiving ransom notes. Investigators are trying to determine if those notes are legitimate. The Sheriff's Office also released a statement today which says, in part, that they, "have not identified a suspect or person of interest in this case."
The statement makes a point to repeat that second line later saying again, "no suspect or person of interest has been identified at this time," of great concern to investigators is the fact that Mrs. Guthrie needs daily medication critical to her health, and that going without that medication could be fatal.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is outside Guthrie's home right now. And Ed, is it clear what authorities have been doing there at the house this evening?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they've clearly been coming back to collect evidence. We have no idea what that is at this moment. The activity you see behind me is everything all of a sudden coming to an end here?
So, all of this lasting close to two hours where crime scene tape was put up around the home, a number of law enforcement agents showed up here at the scene, probably a little bit, about a dozen, maybe a little bit more in a mix of Sheriff's Deputies. We also saw some federal agents involved in this as well.
We can just report to you what we saw. They spent a great deal of time in the back part in the backyard, combing through that area. We've also seen agents going in through the house, through the garage as well. And we did see at one point there were agents that were carrying evidence bags into the house. And we did see one of the other agents bringing back probably had like two or three bags from what we could tell, that were put in the back of a car as well.
So, a great deal of activity going here. Significant because there hasn't been this kind of activity at the home since all of this unfolded on Sunday. In fact, for the last three days or so, it has actually been very quiet here at the home. Everything had been cleared out. And there hadn't been any kind of very limited law enforcement activity other than last night, we saw a Sheriff's Department helicopter making several passes over the course of about 30 minutes, low level through this neighborhood over Nancy Guthrie's home and in the surrounding area as well.
But this was a significant step up from what we saw, that the entire property line was cleared off by the crime tape and all of these officers, most of them, have literally cleared out of the scene here in the last few minutes.
SCIUTTO: Yes, you wonder if there's a new piece of information that sparked that. We just don't know.
Tell us if we've learned anything more about these possible ransom notes. Does the sheriff say if he believes they're genuine?
[20:05:10]
LAVANDERA: So far, we have not gotten any indication that they believe it is authentic or genuine. They are continuing to go through the process of, as they have described to us, treating everything as if it was just any kind of lead or tip coming in to them. So they were, you know, chasing all that down, trying to figure out if it is indeed authentic or a hoax or what might be behind it. But we have not gotten any indication from them that they think that this is a legitimate piece of evidence that is going to lead them to finding Nancy Guthrie.
SCIUTTO: Such a sad story. Goodness, Ed Lavandera good to have you there. Well, joining me now is CNN's senior law enforcement analyst, Andrew McCabe, and criminologist Casey Jordan. Good to have you both.
Andy, if I could begin with you, just with developments this evening, what do you make of investigators being back at the Guthrie home there and then putting up the crime scene tape again?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's hard to say with great clarity because were working just on what we see, putting the crime scene tape up while the officers are back in the residence is something you should expect to see. They don't want media or people you know, from the neighborhood or anyplace else walking up to the property while they're in there doing their work. So, that explains the crime scene tape. What brought them back? That's a much harder thing to determine.
It could be something as simple as a new piece of investigative technology, maybe new devices that are used to detect maybe certain chemicals on the property. Measurements that they decided they needed to take after the fact. There's all kinds of reasons that they might want to go back to do things that weren't done the first time, or it could be acting on information they may be vetting those ransom -- those purported ransom notes, going back to the crime scene to see if there's something that matches up with something that's been stated in a note. So it's really were speculating completely here, but it could be a lot of things.
SCIUTTO: What would the process be for assessing the credibility of a ransom note or notes? In this case, more than one sent to more than one news outlet?
MCCABE: Sure, so right off the top, the language of the communication, if it includes facts that we know are false, then you know that those aren't legitimate or aren't actual communications from the abductors. So, that's kind of the first level of vetting.
Of course, after that, there's all sorts of things that investigators will do, but ultimately to pass the test, as it were, to convince law enforcement that you are the abductor who has this victim, you have got to provide proof of life. And so, any purported abductor who cannot provide proof of life will ultimately be kind of tossed aside.
SCIUTTO: Casey, you, of course, have studied numerous crimes, including kidnappings, and lots of different pieces of evidence have come in. Tell us the importance of these ransom notes. And one particular detail for ransom to be paid in Bitcoin. Is that unusual?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST AND BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: Yes, well, it's a sign of the times, isn't it? But mostly I think that that there's a number of these. My perspective is always that they are hoaxes until they are proved to be legitimate and that should be our approach.
To be paid in Bitcoin, I mean, it's -- this was, I believe, sent to KOLD a news station. I understand, you know, that TMZ has gotten a few or at least one as well, and that these people are basically saying, let me tell you what she was wearing when she -- when we abducted her. Let me tell you about the inside of her house. Well, we know that Savannah Guthrie has actually televised things on the today show with her mother inside of her house, and that nobody knows what she was wearing when she went to bed that night.
So, this are the kind of things that are just kind of like throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks and then saying, if this is good enough for you, if you believe that that I have her send money, here's my Venmo, here's my Bitcoin account. And I think that all of this just kind of adds up to the fact that there are going to be really sadly unscrupulous people who are taking advantage of this horrific situation to exploit it. And maybe they just think its humorous, but it's really, it's really awful for the family.
So, you can be sure that the FBI and all law enforcement are working very hard to see if any of these alleged ransom demands is legitimate.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it's an awful scenario to imagine someone trying to take advantage of this. Andy, we learned that Mrs. Guthrie's pacemaker sent a last signal to her phone around 2:00 A.M. Is there anything you could learn from that? I mean, for instance, the possibility that, that they forced her to leave the phone behind, for instance. What's the importance of that detail? It certainly is also a timing detail.
[20:10:04]
MCCABE: There may be many things that we can learn from the actual data that's transmitted from the pacemaker. The one thing that we know at this point was she was within the range of her devices at 2:00 A.M.
SCIUTTO: Right.
MCCABE: So, we know she had to have been there then if she was or when she was taken from the property was after that point. A lot of this comes down to how -- what the settings are on these devices. If this is the typical time that the device communicates once a day, then that tells us much less.
SCIUTTO: It could give you a sense of a window, if it's every two hours, four hours. --
MCCABE: Exactly, if there's a check in from the device every hour, then that tells us more. Finally, the content of that communication could also be instructive, you know, I'm certainly not a cardiologist, better people that can talk about that, but if the device communicates, the heart is reacting in a particular way, you might be able to surmise that she was under particular stress, maybe involved in a confrontation in that moment.
SCIUTTO: Casey, so authorities continue to say, in fact, they were quite clear, as we noted earlier in the broadcast, to say it twice in clear terms, they have no suspects or person, persons of interest at this point. What does that say about whomever kidnaped Miss Guthrie that they were able, it seems, at least up to this point, to cover their tracks so, so effectively.
JORDAN: There's a certain level of sophistication that we just have to admit to at this point. It's got to be at some level organized for there to be no footprints, no tire tracks, no indication that the blood droplets belong to any outside of the DNA samples they've taken from Nancy and the family. And that means that probably a lot of planning went into this. We don't know.
I mean, all we can do right now is speculate, because it's been four days and we still don't have a person of interest. Did intruders come from behind the house on ATVs through the desert? You know, did they enter through the back of the house and open the front door and then ripped the RING camera off?
They are considering every scenario. But again, the fact that we do not have any suspects or even a known person of interest at this point, it's not a good sign. But I also think that the activity that we've seen there tonight means they are stepping up their game, that they are doing their absolute best to turn every stone over, if you will, and exhaust every possible lead and every piece of forensics to get to the bottom of who is responsible.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and I know another issue, given it was a rural area, fewer cameras than you might have had, say, in a more populated area. Andrew McCabe, Casey Jordan, thanks so much and we will head back to Tucson at Ed Lavandera a bit later in this program.
Well, coming up next, new developments in the Epstein saga, including the question of whether the President should be called to testify before Congress.
And, mega billionaire Jeff Bezos owns it, but now cannot support "The Washington Post" it seems, without just massive layoffs. We're going to have the details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:33]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): I think everything has to be on the table. We obviously want to talk to President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's the House Oversight Committee's top Democrat, warning that his party would seek testimony from President Trump in the Jeffrey Epstein investigation if they were to gain control in November. Former President Clinton already set to testify. And CNN's Manu Raju asked House Speaker Johnson about the apparent disparity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... Trump have to answer some questions too, he's been named more than 1,000 times in these documents.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The President submits to press inquiries every day.
RAJU: Not under oath, not under oath.
JOHNSON: Not under oath, but he's asked the questions all the time, and he answers them. We'll see where it goes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Under oath does matter. Where it went today is in several other directions, starting with billionaire Bill Gates, whose name appears in a draft message from 2013 mentioning, among other things, marital strain between Gates and his then wife, Melinda. Also, the idea of Gates having concerns about a sexually transmitted disease.
Today, Gates told CNN affiliate 9 News in Australia that the e-mail is false, that he never went to Epstein's island, never "met" any women, and had this to say about the relationship they had.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL GATES, BUSINESSMAN AND PHILANTHROPIST: I met Jeffrey in 2011. The focus was always he knew a lot of very rich people, and he was saying he could get them to give money to global health. You know, in retrospect, that was a dead end. And I was foolish to spend time with him. I was one of many people who regret ever knowing him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, Melinda Gates has weighed in, saying this last night about her ex-husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MELINDA FRENCH GATES, EX-WIFE OF BILL GATES: For me, it's personally hard whenever those details come up, right? Because brings back memories of some very, very painful times in my marriage. But I have moved on from that.
Whatever questions remain there of what I don't -- can't even begin to know all of it. Those questions are for those people and for even my ex-husband. They need to answer to those things, not me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: As for the longevity doctor and new CBS News contributor, Peter Attia, the network has yet to decide what to do about him. His e-mails to Epstein, many of them fawning, some of them misogynistic, appear in those files. Dr. Attia has denied any criminal behavior and says he was never on Epstein's jet, his island or at, in his words, "any sex parties."
Then there is the former Prince Andrew, who we've learned has now officially moved out of his longtime home, the Royal Lodge. Though he had already gotten his walking papers from his brother, the king before these photos, you see there became public.
Also, today more fallout from this question by CNN's Kaitlan Collins and the answer she got from the President.
[20:20:24]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN'S CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND THE ANCHOR OF "THE SOURCE": What would you say to the survivors who feel like they haven't gotten justice?
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes, you're the worst reporter, no wonder CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman, I don't think I've ever seen you smile, I've known you for ten years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face.
COLLINS: I'm asking you about survivors of Jeffrey Epstein so I'm not smiling.
TRUMP: Because you know you're not telling the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The President touched off a firestorm when he spoke that way to Collins yesterday and today. The Vice-President, well, he poured fuel on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The President says, why don't you ever smile?
MEGYN KELLY, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW" HOST: Yes.
VANCE: And it's actually, like, so perceptive. Even if you're asking a tough question, even if you take your job very seriously, like, why does it always have to be so antagonistic?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, she's doing her job.
Joining us now, New York Democratic Congressman Daniel Goldman. Good to have you, Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY): Good to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, you heard the House Republican Speaker Johnson say that President Trump should not have to testify in the House's Epstein investigation. Of course, they went through great lengths to pressure former President Bill Clinton to testify. Do you believe Democrats should force Trump to testify, if you were to retake control of Congress this fall?
GOLDMAN: Well, I think they have absolutely set a new precedent where not only do you have to meet the exact specifications of a congressional subpoena, which is usually a negotiated through what's called the accommodations process. Well, that's out the window, but then they can add additional conditions to the subpoena that were not even included and somehow that's okay.
And I can guarantee you, Jim, that we are going to use that exact precedent that Chairman Comer set in completely unreasonably turning the screws on a former President to force him to testify on videotape about things that may be completely unrelated to the investigation, rather than to negotiate in good faith as he's required to do.
So, if that's the precedent the Republicans are going to set, then we are going to follow that. And if that means that it's the Presidents' kids, if that means it's any Cabinet official, if that means it's any Qatari Prince, you can be sure up to and including Donald Trump, you can be sure that we are going to use that same standard.
SCIUTTO: We'll be watching. Well, the President has repeatedly said, as you know, it's time to move on from the Epstein files, including when he was attacking my colleague, Kaitlan Collins. The Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, says the DOJ's review is over. There will be no additional prosecutions. You, of course, former federal prosecutor, based on what you've seen so far, does it make sense? The administration is effectively saying case closed.
GOLDMAN: Yes, I'm not really surprised that Donald Trump would like to move past the Epstein files, given that his name is mentioned more than 5,000 times, including sworn affidavits and allegations of him engaging in sexual assault with minors.
So, yes, it's no surprise Donald Trump would like to turn the page. What's interesting is that we only have half of the files. Why don't we have the rest of the files. If they are duplicates, which is one reason they've given, then just turn them over. There should be no reason not to. But we don't have the rest and given what we saw about Donald Trump in the files that needs further follow up, what are they hiding in the remaining three million pages?
And as to what Mr. Blanche said, even he went on T.V. and said that videos and photographs don't speak. So, you need witnesses? Well, I can tell you, Jim, from talking to the survivors, they have been asking to meet with Todd Blanche and the Department of Justice, and they have been denied the opportunity to do that.
So, yes, you can say you need more evidence, but if you are refusing to accept evidence that's coming to you, then you are whitewashing the story. You are covering it up and you are continuing this massive cover up to try to conceal Donald Trump's clear involvement in all this, as well as many other potential perpetrators.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Goldman, thanks so much for taking the time tonight.
GOLDMAN: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We do have just in the last few moments, a significant new development now in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. Just moments ago, her daughter, of course, NBC's Savannah Guthrie posted this video on social media.
[20:25:10]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, MAIN CO-ANCHOR OF THE NBC NEWS MORNING SHOW "TODAY": On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom, Nancy. We feel them and we continue to believe that she feels them, too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She is funny, spunky, and clever.
She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend; she is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll see.
ANNIE GUTHRIE, SAVANNAH GUTHRIE'S SISTER: The light is missing from our lives. Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief. We are always going to be merely human. Just normal human people who need our mom. Mama, mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home. We miss you.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: Our mom is our heart and our home. She's 84 year old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer. We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk.
However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know, without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us. Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, He is with you. Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere.
We will not rest; your children will not rest until we are together again. We speak to you every moment and we pray without ceasing and we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again. We love you, mom.
ANNIE GUTHRIE: We love you, mom.
CAMERON GUTHRIE, SAVANNAH GUTHRIE'S BROTHER: We love you mom. Stay strong.
SAVANNAH. GUTHRIE: We love you.
ANNIE GUTHRIE: We love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Just a heartbreaking plea there from Savannah Guthrie as well as her sister, Annie and her brother, Cameron through tears, pleading for their mother's safe return.
I'm joined now by Andy McCabe. And Andy, beyond, you know, just the understandable pain that we see in that video there. Would there be any reason that law enforcement would want the family to make such a plea at this point?
MCCABE: Yes, first of all, my heart goes out to Savannah and her family. It's like unbelievably hard to watch. I can't imagine what it's like to have to live through that. So, there are a few things that law enforcement might be trying to accomplish here. The first is, of course, to send a message of courage and encouragement to their mother.
Like, if there is a chance on earth that she actually hears this, they want her to hear that. They want to try to bolster her spirit.
SCIUTTO: Savannah even said that if you happen to hear.
MCCABE: Of course, of course, but the second thing that I'm really noticing here is, you know, we don't know this for sure, but I feel like this is a fairly strong signal that they do not believe they've had a legitimate ransom demand yet, right. Because what you hear the family saying here is we're ready to talk. Reach out to us. We just want to know you have our mother. So, that's not something that you would do if you were already in negotiations with someone that you actually thought had the victim.
[20:30:40]
And that's not uncommon. Like you -- in these situations, you get a lot of false leads, you get a lot of scammers, you get a lot of people who are trying to take advantage of a horrible situation, which is unthinkable, but it does happen. This is -- I would -- to me, reads like an effort to establish a line of communication.
SCIUTTO: Can you connect that, that video, with what we saw outside her home, the police going back, in effect, for another look, even bringing sniffing dogs, right? And then taking evidence bags out of the house, perhaps they found something they didn't see the first time around. Can you connect those two things?
MCCABE: It's hard to say. I think there's maybe a good chance that that return to the house could have been motivated by following up on a detail that maybe someone raised in one of those other ransom --
SCIUTTO: Right.
MCCABE: -- you know, ransom claims. Like, people will say things to try to bolster their credibility and say, I know there's a coffee cup on the table next to the couch. So if that's something that they didn't really focus on the first time through, they might go back to see if that holds up or not.
SCIUTTO: Sure.
MCCABE: But nevertheless, I think this is very clearly a moment that they thought it would be most effective to use the family to communicate to the victim, to communicate to Nancy, to try to establish some sort of response --
SCIUTTO: Right.
MCCABE: from the abductors.
SCIUTTO: Open channels in effect.
MCCABE: Yeah. And also increase the nation's view --
SCIUTTO: Sure.
MCCABE: -- on this whole situation.
SCIUTTO: It's been four days.
MCCABE: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: How unusual is it in a kidnapping case, assuming this is the case, right, that they -- but reading the signals here, which is a difficult position to put you in --
MCCABE: Of course.
SCIUTTO: -- given that you're not briefed on the actual investigation. But from what you can tell, is it unusual not to have knowledge of the kidnapper or some sort of channels open where they would be communicating ransom amount, et cetera?
MCCABE: Yeah. It's certainly -- look, if you look back on the history of all kind of known kidnappings, some take much longer times than others. So it's not -- there's not a great cross section here. But under -- in this case, under these circumstances, where your victim is a very vulnerable person, someone who is old, someone who needs medication, someone who lacks complete mobility, someone who is going to have a hard time standing up to the rigors of confinement, and the deprivation that comes along with being detained.
We know this from speaking to other kidnapping victims, people who are detained overseas, things like that. It's -- this experience is incredibly stressful, mentally, psychologically, and physically.
SCIUTTO: Sure. Just now, you saw the stress on the family there (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
MCCABE: Exactly. So knowing that, it's hard to imagine that a -- that an organized, well-executed kidnapping would delay serving a ransom demand.
SCIUTTO: I see.
MCCABE: So you kind of would expect that to have happened by now.
SCIUTTO: That opens up other possibilities, you're saying, for what this would be.
MCCABE: Yeah. It does.
SCIUTTO: Now, the president spoke with Savannah Guthrie earlier today, promised federal resources. I'm sure they were already throwing an enormous amount of resources at this, but are there specific federal resources that might help local law enforcement that might not typically be available?
MCCABE: Sure. So obviously the FBI, this is really very much in the FBI's wheelhouse. They have a lot of technical resources that can help. They can do things like cell phone analysis, tapping (ph) cell phone towers in the area, analyzing that data to distill a population of devices, which of course are owned and used by people, that were in the area at the time this took place.
And that gives you a population that you can --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: And then perhaps were there prior, right?
MCCABE: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: Because there was this talk of a possible trespassing earlier --
MCCABE: Of course.
SCIUTTO: -- or actually I should say in January 4th. MCCABE: January 4th.
SCIUTTO: And it reminds me of, for instance, the Idaho murders case where they --
MCCABE: That's right.
SCIUTTO: -- via cell phone data, they knew that he had cased the location prior.
MCCABE: And of course you can -- through the analysis, you can eliminate people who live in the area, who have a reason to be there. So there's all kinds of work that the FBI can do with that.
Simply, the processing of the crime scene, FBI has probably the most advanced capabilities in reconstructing exactly what happened here. We know there's blood evidence inside and possibly outside the residence.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: There's a lot that you can learn from blood spatter.
SCIUTTO: Sure.
[20:35:00]
MCCABE: Much more so than blood -- pools of blood. Blood spatter retains kind of hallmarks that can indicate motion, stillness, where they came from, where the person was.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. And it just opens up a whole host of quite sad possibilities. I do, since this is quite new, and as we were watching that video just a short time ago, we were watching it for the first time, we want to play another short clip. This is Savannah Guthrie and her brother Camron and sister Annie making a plea on social media for their mother's safe return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, HOST OF "TODAY" SHOW, NBC NEWS: We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated.
We need to know, without a doubt, that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please, reach out to us.
Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, he is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Through tears, some tough words, a tough message, a heartbreaking message to hear from Savannah Guthrie and her brother and sister there. I do want to check in with our Ed Lavandera. He is outside Nancy Guthrie's home.
So, we have some more details about what police were up to there this evening, just a short time ago, bringing sniffing dogs as well as bringing evidence bags out of the house afterwards. Have authorities given any further explanation as to what brought them back there again this evening?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, we have not gotten. We tried speaking to some of the agents that were here on the ground. They wouldn't acknowledge any of the questions, obviously. And they were not going to explain what exactly they were doing. They were here for probably close to two hours, Jim.
There were probably a dozen or so local sheriff's deputies as well as federal agents. But they spent close to two hours. They spent a lot of time in the backyard going through that area. So, our vantage point was rather limited for what we could see. But we know a lot of them were back there.
We also saw them going through the garage into the home as well and then bringing out, from what we could tell, at least once, several bags of -- brown paper bags of presumably evidence. And then all of that was taken away. But it's absolutely stunning that literally, as that crime scene tape was coming down and the investigators here were leaving the scene of Nancy Guthrie's home, that Savannah Guthrie and her siblings released this excruciating video to watch.
And you think of someone who's had such a storied career speaking in front of a camera. I can't imagine for them that those had to have been the most painful words to have to utter into a camera that she's ever had to endure.
SCIUTTO: Oh, goodness, yeah, excruciating is the right word. Ed Lavandera, thanks so much.
Just back briefly to Andy McCabe before we go. So here we are four days out. You've just searched the home again attempting to find more evidence. You brought sniffer dogs there. You apparently in coordination with the family, whether you encouraged them, you certainly allowed them to make this plea. You have not -- it does not appear they have communication, to our knowledge --
MCCABE: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- with whoever took her. And they say that they don't have a suspect in mind. So, what is your next step if you're the FBI?
MCCABE: Well, first of all, they have to keep the public relations game going. They have to get back out daily in the press conference, in front of the press, taking questions, but using those moments as an opportunity to put out information that will generate leads. Like, for instance, they have yet to post in the press conference a map, like a perimeter of the area, and make a direct appeal to people to say, if you live in this area or you were in this area on that evening, please call the sheriff's office and have a deputy interview every single one of those people.
And then you have to go back to the basics, the neighborhood canvases, the canvases of individuals at transportation hubs, things like that. Like, you've got to just go back and just literally beat the bushes.
[20:40:00]
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: And if you have -- so you have something of a timeline with the information about the pacemaker, right?
MCCABE: Right.
SCIUTTO: The last communication at 2 a.m., so you can narrow your window --
MCCABE: Exactly.
SCIUTTO: -- for cameras that you look at. And I'm thinking, for instance, of the Brown University shooting --
MCCABE: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- where it took them some time before they released that first image.
MCCABE: That's right.
SCIUTTO: And then they created kind of a potential path, and then there was another image.
MCCABE: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: And you know, each thing helped move forward.
MCCABE: That's right.
SCIUTTO: I imagine that's at least a focus right now.
MCCABE: That's absolutely right. So, you know, you've got license plate readers up in different parts of the city.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: Potentially, places that are close to or places that might be along the approach or the exit from this neighborhood. Now, you have a time that you know she was at least still in the residence as of 2 a.m. or whatever that time is on that pacemaker. So now, you have a very targeted area that you can start, like, looking at those --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: -- at those LPRs, building populations of people to be followed up upon and ruling them out one after another. It can take a long time. And of course, in this case, the clock is ticking.
SCIUTTO: Some have mentioned the possibility of satellite resources. Are the satellite resources, and of course, I'm thinking this if the president is offering, you know, all the federal help imaginable, is that purely for communication? In other words, trying to pick out cell signals? Or, I mean, can you use satellite imagery around this time?
MCCABE: Yeah, I'm not familiar with -- I can't think of a situation in which we did that when I was with the Bureau. I can't speak to any capacities they may have developed in the time that I've been gone. But I would expect that that's probably more a communications analysis tool. It's visual.
SCIUTTO: And which is key. And again, in previous cases, those cell phone --
(CROSSTALK)
Huge (inaudible).
SCIUTTO: -- tower pops (ph), right? I mean, that can be helpful. That can be extremely helpful.
MCCABE: That's right.
SCIUTTO: Tell me on a personal side, you have a family here that is, poor Savannah and her brother and sister, and you see it coming across in that video there, who is suffering.
MCCABE: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: They're worried about their 84-year-old mother. They're also probably desperate to understand the investigation and how it's progressing. How do you handle and communicate with the family?
MCCABE: There are, I'm sure, people on the investigative team who are doing nothing but that, who are trained and have the experience to be able to be that contact, that anchor for the family in this time. That family is going through the worst thing they will ever experience in their lives. It's something that almost none of us can relate to, thank God.
And they're doing it in a very public way. It's, you know, just unthinkable.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: They are also going to potentially face some very tough decisions.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: If they develop a lead on a ransom demand that they think might be legitimate, then there will be questions about --
SCIUTTO: Do you --
MCCABE: How do we do that?
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: Do we take a chance of providing funding in a way to generate -- to recover Nancy?
SCIUTTO: Sure, or even just keep the conversation open, right, as you attempt to --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCABE: Or do we -- or do we -- right. Or doing that, do we --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: -- lose our opportunity to build more intelligence about who might be behind this?
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: So it's very tough ground.
SCIUTTO: One concern throughout, of course, is her health. She's 84- years-old. She requires medication. And I will play the portion of Savannah Guthrie's message where she talks about her mother's health.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNIE GUTHRIE, DAUGHTER OF NANCY GUTHRIE: Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief. We are always going to be merely human, just normal human people who need our mom.
Mama, mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home. We miss you.
S. GUTHRIE: Our mom is our heart and our home. She is 84-years-old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Ultimately, these are children pleading for their mother's safety and release. And you heard from Annie there, Savannah's sister, and of course, Savannah herself, talking specifically about Nancy Guthrie's health and their concern about her health, given that she requires daily medication which, to their knowledge, she does not have with her.
[20:45:00] And it's been four days since she was taken from her home.
Joining us as well is John Miller, of course, a longtime himself in investigating a whole host of crimes. John, I asked Andy this question prior. I wonder your view of the plea, beyond the sincere emotion there. They just want their mother home. And I imagine in the same circumstances, I would do exactly the same thing.
But in coordination with law enforcement, what would be the law enforcement function or hope from a message such as this?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, they're doing two important things. One is a great deal of effort is put into. And it's very natural to humanize their mother. She's not an object.
SCIUTTO: Sure.
MILLER: She's not a commodity. She's not just a victim who is for sale with a -- with a price tag and a ransom demand. She is a loving person who is loved back by her family --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MILLER: -- to develop that kind of empathy between the family, and who's ever holding her, hopefully to get them to share some of that empathy by adding this dimension to their mother's story.
The second thing they're doing is equally as important, which is you have a number of ransom notes that went to media outlets that are likely from an untraceable email address with a demand for money to a particular crypto account. That's a one-way conversation.
So, what they're asking for is to turn that into a two way conversation where, can you reach out to us? Can we be in contact? And frankly, to get a proof of life, which is --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MILLER: -- send us a sign that, A, you really have her and that B, she's OK, and we can continue these discussions. All of those are important messages.
She's a real person. She loves us. We love her. We need to know that she's OK and we need to know that you're real.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. And that there's more, of course, as always, in a case like this, there's more than one victim there. And there are three of them on the screen right now, her children. John, are you concerned by the fact that this is still, if those ransom notes are real, a one-way communication, that there's been no two-way communication established and that it's been four days without, as you mentioned, proof of life?
MILLER: Well, it's obviously concerning. You have an 84-year-old kidnapping victim here who --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MILLER: -- is in a state where she needs medication and medical supplies, who is likely not getting those. But the timing does not surprise me, from the time of pre-dawn kidnapping in the middle of the night on a Saturday night going into Sunday. Whatever travel time it took them to go from point A, the kidnap site to wherever she might be or being held to the time that they established what their mode of communication was going to be, oddly, through multiple media outlets.
Knowing that, if they went that way, it would get there and it would get public. I'm not surprised, but this is not your father's kidnapping. This isn't leave $50,000 in a brown paper bag behind the statue in the park where you wait for a ransom drop.
This is encrypted emails. This is crypto accounts that are almost impossible to trace. This is a family who has been reached out to by kidnappers using the media who are now communicating back through the same media with a desperate plea.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. One note just on cameras, right, it's been noted prior that this is a rural area, relatively rural, but certainly not as populated. Not as many homes and structures as in other areas where we've seen investigations move at least more quickly, right, because you have more images captured on ring doorbells and traffic cameras and that sort of thing.
That said, it's not an entirely unpopulated area. I mean, based on this development, would they have at least some images to potentially track a car during the rough time frame that we know now, based on that last communication between her pacemaker and her iPhone around, I believe, two o'clock in the morning?
MILLER: So that is a possibility. They've been up and down that street and they have collected video from multiple homes. And what they're looking for is what vehicles could be seen passing in the road and what directions at what times. Now, in the darkness, you don't have much to work with. There's no streetlights there.
You might get a profile of a vehicle. Is it a pickup truck or a car? What are the shape of the taillights? Can we put a brand or a make to that?
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MILLER: But then as you get to license plate readers that might be at that same time past, say two o'clock in the morning at particular intersections that lead to highways, you might be able to come up with a limited -- a limited universe of vehicles that you could start to look at.
[20:50:00]
Who is it registered to? Where is it from? Does this person have a criminal background? And so on. But that's just one of the panoply of leads that they are working --
SCIUTTO: Sure.
MILLER: -- from people who had familiarity and access to the house to what could they glean from video to, as we've seen now in some new news reports that show the ring doorbell camera had been removed from the front door, and there's blood on the steps. It is likely that whoever took her and entered that house and left probably had some familiarity with that property somehow from somewhere, another investigative angle.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. John Miller, thank you. Everyone, please do stay with us. We will have more on this right after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:00]
SCIUTTO: In just the last few moments, we've had a heartbreaking new development in the disappearance and apparent abduction of Nancy Guthrie, mother of the "Today" show's Savannah Guthrie. A video posted on social media with her sister Annie and brother Camron by her side, Savannah pleaded for her mother's safe return, speaking directly to whomever took her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. GUTHRIE: We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk.
However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us.
Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, he is with you. Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, our hearts go out to her. I'm sure yours do as well.
I'm back now with Andy McCabe joining us as well; former FBI profiler, Bryanna Fox; and former D.C. Police Chief, Charles Ramsey.
Bryanna, I wonder if I could begin with you because it was quite a deliberate plea there to the kidnappers, saying we are ready to talk and asking for proof of life. I wonder and of course, no one's been identified here, but for the kinds of people who would abduct someone, do they often respond to messages like this? Might they be influenced by a message like this to reach out and communicate?
BRYANNA FOX, FORMER FBI AGENT: Yeah, that's exactly, I think, why they would have done this. There's the idea that if you can humanize this person --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
FOX: -- it's not just a hostage victim, this is a family member. It's somebody that has people that are looking out for her. It also just helps to shift the narrative. We're willing to talk, we want to listen, meaning if this person has demands, if they have things they want, we're willing to help you. So, I do think it does reach out to them.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, I mean, I know from my own hostage training many of us go through that they teach you to try to humanize yourself with the abductor if you find yourself sadly in that situation.
Charles Ramsey, as you watch this, the police were out there again tonight, investigators with sniffer dogs, they were taking additional evidence out. Can you give us a sense of what they'd be looking for at this stage, four days later?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Listen, they're doing everything they possibly can. And it's not that they may have not done it before, but you go again --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
RAMSEY: -- you see whether or not -- maybe you missed something. And so, you just never really stop going over it. I'm sure they've done grid searches, they've used dogs, they've got helicopters with the FLIR instrument on it to pick up body heat. And so, they've done everything they possibly can, but they're going to continue to do it until they're able to locate her.
The family reaching out now is a very important step. But they also realize it's been four days now and she has not had her medication more than likely. And that's why it's imperative that they get some proof of life. This individual is going to have to make contact with them in order to get whatever it is they're trying to get.
SCIUTTO: Bryanna, I'm putting you in a tough position here, given so little information at this point. But can you give the briefest profile of the kind of perpetrator who would carry out a horrible crime like this?
FOX: Yeah, the tricky thing about profiles is the high risk of being inaccurate and then, accidentally setting either the public or law enforcement into the wrong direction. But just stocking statistically and the highest probability, we would say it would be somebody who's male, probably 30s or 40s, probably has a criminal record or has at least done this before. I would be shocked if this was their first foray into the criminal world and doing something like this.
SCIUTTO: Wow. Andy, final thoughts just at a moment like this, four days out, with a message like that from Savannah and her family, very briefly?
MCCABE: Yeah, I think particularly that last clip that you showed indicates they are really pushing for proof of life.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MCCABE: Whether that's going to come from the ransom letters we know they've received through the media or making that appeal to whoever hasn't spoken, who hasn't responded --
