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Laura Coates Live
Trump Keeps Ceasefire Open-Ended as Iran Seizes Ships; VA Map Blocked; Trump Plans to Bail Out Spirit Airlines; Trump Admin Weighs Sending Afghan War Allies to the Congo; Democrats and Republicans Trade Barbs in First Major Debate for CA Governor. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired April 22, 2026 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I heard that they're opening like a physical store in Manhattan.
UNKNOWN: Does your daughter has some?
PHILLIP: I have a Labubu.
UNKNOWN: No.
PHILLIP: I didn't purchase it. But I -- it was given to me. Yes.
UNKNOWN: That's scary. That's scary.
PHILLIP: I mean, I'm just saying, like people are going to stores and purchasing Labubu.
UNKNOWN: So, this is a whole like a movement.
UNKNOWN: It's a fad.
PHILLIP: Yes. And people collect them, and they -- they have different --
UNKNOWN: It's an NFT.
PHILLIP: Some of -- some of them are more valuable than others.
UNKNOWN: A Labubu lesson tonight. Here we go.
PHILLIP: Don't worry, this June, it will also go away.
(LAUGHTER)
Everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight." You can catch me any time on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Tonight, the Navy secretary is fired, Iran seized a ship, and the president keeps everyone guessing on his ceasefire. Plus, Republicans look to the courts to undo Democrats' redistricting win in Virginia as the party trades blame for the loss. And later, the freak out over the president's plan to use taxpayer money to bail out Spirit Airlines. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Good evening. I'm Victor Blackwell, in for Laura. Now, the real test of this ceasefire with Iran, it's playing out in the Strait of Hormuz, and it's looking more like the sensitive pressure point of this war. Look at this new video released by Iranian state media. It appears to show Iranian forces seizing container ships. Now, it looks like a drone recorded some of this footage.
The White House was asked if it violates the ceasefire. The press secretary said no.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Does the president view that as a violation of the ceasefire?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, because these were not U.S. ships, these were not Israeli ships. These were two international vessels. These two ships were taken by speedy gunboats. Iran has gone from having the most lethal navy in the Middle East to now acting like a bunch of pirates. They don't have control over the strait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: First, the seizure of the ships. Whether they're American or Israeli or not, it's still a big problem for the Trump administration strategy. It shows that Iran can still threaten global shipping and try to shake energy markets.
Second, about a week ago, maybe you remember this, during the ceasefire, the president threatened to blow up Iran's fast attack ships if they got near the U.S. blockade. We don't know exactly where these cargo ships were seized, but the Iranians are showing that they are least willing to test the president's boundaries.
Now, the escalating situation in the strait is happening while there is a shakeup in the U.S. Navy. Navy Secretary John Phelan has been fired. Sources say the tensions between Phelan and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth had been building for months, specifically over Phelan's direct communications with the president, because Hegseth saw that as an attempt to bypass him. Whatever the reason, he has been fired. And it's happening as the Navy is doing some of the heaviest lifting of the blockade. U.S. has already forced 31 ships in the strait back to port, boarded two others.
So, the military pressure is clear. The diplomatic path, though, not so much. We still don't know when or if another round of talks will happen. The White House says the president has not set any firm deadline for Iran to respond, only that he wants a unified proposal.
So, let's talk about that word, unified, because the president claims Iran's regime is fractured even as his own team says it knows exactly who has the final say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LEAVITT: We obviously know who we're negotiating with because our negotiating team has sat down with those individuals in person. But, obviously, there's a lot of internal fraction and internal division which, again, just proves the effectiveness of Operation Epic Fury in the first place. Their regime and many of its leaders for nearly five decades have been wiped off the face of planet Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: I'm starting tonight with White House and foreign policy reporter for Politico, Eli Stokols, CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen, and retired Army colonel, Wayne Sanders. Gentlemen, welcome to you all.
And colonel, let me start with you and the dismissal of the Navy secretary. It has been going on, this tension between the Navy secretary and the defense secretary for months now. What do you make of his firing, especially at this point in the war?
COL. WAYNE SANDERS, RETIRED COLONEL, U.S. ARMY: I think the timing is definitely a little concerning, especially because the blockade is in full effect at this point in time. The one thing, though, I want people to remember also, though, is that U.S. Central Command as well as Fifth Fleet are the ones that are actually dealing with the day-to- day on the blockade. So, when you look at -- when you look at Phelan's dismissal at this point in time, I thinks it's really -- the timing is unfortunate, but I don't think it's actually going to affect the way that the blockade is actually being set up.
[23:04:56]
BLACKWELL: Eli, this response from the White House about these ships being seized, you heard from Karoline Leavitt that they were acting like a bunch of pirates. They seem to be obviously downplaying it. What's the narrative there?
ELI STOKOLS, WHITE HOUSE AND FOREIGN POLICY CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Yes, I was out in the driveway this afternoon with the press secretary and after her Fox interview where she said, well, it's not really a big deal because these were not U.S. ships that were fired on.
And another thing that stood out to me was saying, well, you know, the president's decision to extend the ceasefire indefinitely yesterday was because of him showing some generosity to Iran. Generosity to a country we've been at war with for six weeks, I mean, it just is sort of -- it feels like they're kind of grasping at rationale. I mean, Iran refused to put people on a plane to Pakistan because they were upset about the blockade, among other things. They couldn't really get close to an agreement that they could sign or agree to a framework or something in Pakistan. So, nothing is happening.
And after the president made all these threats, he just decided to extend the ceasefire indefinitely. I mean, if you step back, it looks like we're getting closer to the president wanting to walk away from this conflict. That's very unpopular with the American people. Almost irrespective of the outcomes in the region. I think calculating the bombing that he is threatening is not really going to get him anywhere. It's not going to push Iran any further. They've been bombing them for over a month. And I -- it just does not seem like he really wants to go that route. Where this goes from here is really hard to know. Talking to people inside the White House today, I was surprised that -- almost a nonchalance about the situation, whether it's the Strait of Hormuz, whether it's energy prices. Just kind of a sense like, oh, well, we've got lots of oil here, we'll figure it out, we've got all the leverage. But it's clear from the situation, they don't have all the leverage. Iran can extend this out, and that's what they seem to be doing.
BLACKWELL: Peter, the president has been a bit of a pendulum on the strait, right? At some point, it's oh, it's going to open up naturally to, you know, open it up, you effing bastards, to what he said on Easter. And so, what do you make of -- let me change the question here. What do you think the rest of the world hears when the White House says they're just acting like a bunch of pirates in the strait?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I mean, this is one of the most confusing set of public messaging that I can think of about anything that the United States has ever done.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
BERGEN: And I won't rehearse what the president said because it's well known, but he said a lot of different things at different times, at least on day one that we won the war. So, you know, Victor, we -- you know, you were discussing that we have the Iranians in some sense trying to create this idea that they're fractured and maybe this is sort of a delaying --
BLACKWELL: Yes. Is there a shell game here? Like, we -- I told you before the show, I was here in this chair three weeks ago filling in, and the narrative then was, is the administration talking to the right people in Iran, someone who can enforce a deal? It is still that case today. Is this part of their delay strategy, particularly?
BERGEN: Yes. I mean, A, we -- no one has the slightest idea. So, I'm not going to pretend that I have a good answer. But I do think that a deal will have to be approved by the supreme leader. Obviously, he's not in great shape. But, you know, it's a theocracy. It's not a democracy. And the supreme leader is not just the leader of all Muslims in Iran. He's the leader of all Shia Muslims.
So, he's going to have -- there's going to have to be some kind of buy-in from him and there's going to have to be some buy-in from the leader of the Iran, you know, the Islamic Revolution Guards, all that's basically in charge. So, I think you need both of those parties to agree.
And, by the way, ultimately, they haven't agreed to a single thing the United States wants. Well, so far.
BLACKWELL: After the president said they agreed to everything. BERGEN: Right. And, you know, we took 13,000 strikes. I think the main point here is actually, to answer your question directly, Victor, is the people we're now dealing with are all veterans of the Iran-Iraq war. They are people who are roughly my age. I'm 63. They fought as teenagers or very young men in that Iran-Iraq war. You know, it was a very bloody war. A million people died. It was a stalemate. And they sent 15-year-old boys into minefields to clear them. Yeah, they thought they would go to heaven if they die. So, I mean, that's the kind of people you're dealing with.
So, even if there are some disagreements within the regime, I don't think there are massive fractures where they basically disagree on that strategy.
BLACKWELL: So, the question is about this extension of the ceasefire. There is no hard deadline now. But the president has said five deadlines, said that the bombing will continue, that a civilization will end. Do you think they take that seriously anymore?
SANDERS: I think that when you look at the way that Iran has to look at it, the Iranian people, the 88 million other Iranian people are looking at it and saying, we want -- we want to continue with the change, we're excited about the fact that the U.S. is coming in to interdict and help out here.
But the problem is, as is mentioned, is that you're dealing with a leadership that's separate. If it was any other country in the world based off of the conventional military power that has been placed by the United States against that country, if it was anybody other than Iran in a theocracy, then you would already see that military objectives have been met and then the strategic objectives would follow.
[23:10:11]
So, both of those would be good. But when you're dealing with an Iranian situation like this, you're now having to figure out what are the best ways that you can complete your military objectives, which for the most part have been done when you look at dismantling their missile program and being able to interdict the enriching of their enriched uranium, excuse me, for that and making sure that they can't do that. Those pieces are done, but the strategic side that's following now is the Strait of Hormuz.
And when you have the ability with an asymmetric capability, a shoulder fired weapon or an IRGC fast boat, they're not expensive, you just need a 50 cal machine gun that's on the backside of it, you can actually cause changes all the way at the geopolitical level. So, they are able to leverage that militarily in a way that is almost -- almost creating an equal lever to the United States military power.
BLACKWELL: And so, that's an important part, and we've talked so much about this asymmetric war that is happening. The secretary of defense has said that this operation, Epic Fury, has been a capital V victory militarily, right? Thirteen thousand targets hit. If there is a return to the kinetic element of this war, what targets would even be persuasive that have not been thus far? You listed off what they hit so far. Is there anything left on the list outside of anything that will qualify as a war crime?
SANDERS: Yes. I think -- I think that if you're looking at especially the areas, the soft coastal lines of the Strait of Hormuz, areas that haven't been -- especially when they talk about IRGC fast boats having hide positions along the coast, I think it is one of the areas that they're in.
You also got to remember that the intelligence communities had now the last 10 to 14 days of being able to look and say, where has some of the dust settled for military targets that have been struck and whether they need to be re-struck. They're going to continue to look for any types of missile launch capability. So, any missile launchers that are out there, any additional missile stores, the intelligence community is confirming nine of those positions so that if called upon, they can actually have that as part of the strike list.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
SANDERS: And you would see that. I mean, if President Trump said, hey, we are going back kinetic, you will see a very large spike in those, especially during the first 24 to 48 hours, to put the pressure back on Iran.
BLACKWELL: Eli, the Pentagon says that it could take six months to clear the mines from the Strait of Hormuz. And if those oil tankers are not allowed to pass through with some security, that they won't be subject to one of those mines, oil prices continue to go up. Jet fuel, United says that their costs are going up 15 to 20 percent. Has the White House factored that in and how are they preparing for a summer of those increasing prices?
STOKOLS: Yes, it doesn't seem like they have yet or at least the conversations that I was having with them today about that exact topic, there was just sort of a confidence that, look, there's a lot of, you know, America is producing more energy than ever before. Other countries can come here. We're going to be fine. We're not that worried about a supply crunch.
And, you know, I think they say that, but I think they can also read polls. And we're maybe on the front end. That's a lagging indicator in the oil prices. We haven't even seen the worst of it yet. You know, they already are looking at polls that show this is a 35-65 war. It's just not popular. People are frustrated. People are not happy with the president's leadership on the economy. The midterms are coming up. These are all things that they're very much aware of.
And when I've talked to people, regional allies, people from Gulf countries who are party to these talks or talking to the White House or trying to encourage a deal, the sense they have is that the White House wants this deal far more than Iran does. Iran has been able to withstand a lot of bombing attacks. You've talked about it.
The president, for all his bluster, seems to want, this is what American partners believe, seems to want this deal more than Iran does. And I think the leaders in Iran, whoever they are, recognize that as well. And I think that's why they are taking their time and not giving in. That's why there hasn't been really much progress in negotiations. And why in spite of that, you saw the president yesterday hunt and put this off and show that, you know, right now, the move is not to go back to the kinetic phase of this war.
BLACKWELL: All right. Gentlemen, thank you. Next, Democrats redistricting victory in Virginia already blocked in court as the president baselessly claims it was rigged. One of the Democrats who led the fight in the Commonwealth will join me to react, next. And later, the president's bailout plan for bankrupt Spirit Airlines that has members of his own party calling him a socialist.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: Well, it only took one day for the new congressional map in Virginia to face a new legal challenge. A judge is delaying the certification of the results and calling the ballot language "flagrantly misleading." That's a quote.
The ballot asked if the state's Constitution should be temporarily amended to -- quote -- "restore fairness in the midterm elections." And the maps give Democrats a 10 to one edge over Republicans in House races. The state's attorney general says he will appeal. But even before the judge issued his ruling, President Trump was reading his usual script, claiming the election in Virginia was rigged.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Let's talk more about this with the speaker of the Virginia House of Delegates, Don Scott. Mr. Speaker, good to have you along. First question here, your reaction to the president's claim that Virginia Democrats rigged that vote?
[23:20:00]
DON SCOTT, SPEAKER, VIRGINIA HOUSE OF DELEGATES: First of all, thank you and good evening, Victor. I appreciate you having us on. As usual, the president seems to be unhinged. I think this war in Iran, this dumb war that he has initiated in Iran has gotten him off his rocker again. If you look at it, every time he loses, he has a track record. If he loses, the election is rigged. If he wins, the election is great. And so, we expected this. This is another cynical, politically- motivated attempt to try to overturn the will of Virginia's voters.
Virginia's voters, unlike Texas, North Carolina, and Missouri, we put the power in the people. We trusted the people to give us guidance on this issue. And the people went to the polls, and they voted yes to do redistricting. And so, now, Virginia has the opportunity to really make sure that we have a level playing field, keep it fair, and make sure that we get fair election this midterm election.
So, I'm excited about what the people of the Commonwealth of Virginia have done. They did it themselves, the powers and the people. And I think it's a sin to attempt to try to go to a judge out in far southwest Virginia to try to overturn this up for shopping at worst. And I think that when the Virginia Supreme Court gets this matter, they'll do what we expect them to do and uphold the will of the voters. It will be unprecedented of them to overturn the legislation and overturn the will of the voters.
BLACKWELL: So, let's take it each bite at a time, and let's start with this judge in Virginia there who is stopping the certification. And the word you used, fair. Of course, the word fairness is in the question. Let me read the question because I don't know if anybody has done this on television. The question that was before Virginia voters, should the Constitution of Virginia be amended to allow the General Assembly to temporarily adopt new congressional districts to restore fairness in the upcoming elections, while ensuring Virginia's standard redistricting process resumes for all future redistricting after the 2030 census?
Restoring fairness is subjective. And so, are you certain, are you confident that the phrasing here will stand up to the judicial scrutiny as it gets to the Supreme Court?
SCOTT: I'm extremely confident the law is clear. Great deference is given to the legislature to draw these, to write these questions, to do these words, to make sure it's clear. And it's very clear that Virginians understood. It was a very close election. This is still a purple state. And the reason that it was so close is because people understood about the stake.
You got to think about this. Just a few years ago, Virginians voted for an independent redistricting -- bipartisan redistricting commission. They voted for it in an overwhelming way, 65-35. It's a 15-point swing to come back here. A lot of Virginians hated to have to do this. We didn't want to be in this position.
But because of the detrimental impact of the policies of Donald Trump in Virginia, the DOGE cuts on Virginia, the economy being wrecked in Virginia, the job losses in Virginia, hospitals closing, children losing health care, children losing nutritional assistance, so SNAP program being cut, so that Donald Trump could fund his billionaire friends' tax cuts and fund this war that nobody understands why, the unions clearly understood what was at stake, and they came to the ballot, and they showed up, and they showed out.
BLACKWELL: Well, let me ask you about some of those voters. Let me ask you about some of those voters because we spoke to a few who say they don't like gerrymandering at all, blue states, red states. Here is one who voted for former President Obama. Here is what that voter told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALICIA KRAMP, VOTER: I think, ultimately, I am anti-gerrymandering. And this feels like a place to vote based on principle. I understand that there's an argument to be made about who did what first and who did what worse. But, ultimately, I think I am contributing to problem if I vote yes. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: And so, she voted no. I mean, there you have a Democrat who voted no. The yes margin was narrower than some expected. The former state attorney general said this -- this win (INAUDIBLE) for you all, that what you invested is going to costs you so much. It's going to essentially be a loss. What do you think about that framing?
SCOTT: Well, the key word you used there, Victor, was the former attorney general because he just took an (INAUDIBLE) glass cycle. They keep recycling. You know, Republicans do believe in climate change. You know, they keep recycling these old losers who keep losing over and over again to lead their efforts. He lost, and he's losing again. It's just sour apples.
They didn't say a word. You know, I'm not going to be lectured by Republicans. They didn't say a word when Texas, Missouri, and North Carolina redrew their maps to get format -- four seats in Texas that Donald Trump -- that he was entitled to.
[23:25:06]
And so, we're not going to be lectured on them. I think what happened is nobody wanted to have to do this. Donald Trump put us in the position so that we continue to demand -- defend democracy for the rest of the country. And I want to thank those folks who started this in Texas, who stood up and sound at the alarm of what the Republicans or troubled MAGA Republicans are trying to do, and thank Gavin Newsom and others. And I want to thank our campaign team here, Keren Dongo (ph) and others, who led the effort to make sure that we got this thing done.
BLACKWELL: Speaker Don Scott, I appreciate the conversation. Thank you.
SCOTT: Thank you.
BLACKWELL: Up next, Republicans blaming one another for the Virginia results as the president's top political director does damage control and claims they have a plan to win come November. Plus, should the U.S. government spend $500 million of your money to take over and help run Spirit Airlines? That debate, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:00]
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BLACKWELL: Gas prices may be rising. President Trump's poll numbers may be dropping. But the White House thinks it has a winning message going into the midterms: The Democrats would be doing even worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES BLAIR, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, 2024 TRUMP CAMPAIGN: There's a backlash to the fact that they were not honest. And the same is going to be true in November. They don't have policies to run on. They don't have a vision to run on. We're going to make them litigate the question of their policies in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: So, why is Team Trump taking this route? Well, they say internal polling shows they still hold a trust advantage over Democrats on key issues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: Who do you trust more on inflation, Republicans or Democrats? Republicans have the edge down the list. Crime, border security, illegal immigration, the main issues that people are voting for. Republicans still maintain the edge. And the midterms are going to be about who do you trust more to deal with these issues that they care about. Republicans in Congress or Democrats in Congress?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: All right, let's debate with our political panel, T.W. Arrighi, former senior communications aide to Senator Lindsey Graham, and Sawyer Hackett, Democratic strategist. Welcome to you both. Sawyer, let me start with you. Republicans' message there to independents, being anti-Trump is not enough and Democrats would do worse. What do you say to that?
SAWYER HACKETT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, CONTENT CREATOR: To me, that sounds like Republicans, you know, they're going to have to run on the past because they can't defend the present. I mean, you look at the current situation, the current environment where gas prices are through the roof, where we're stuck in these Middle East wars, where, you know, Trump's approval rating has dropped down into the low 30s to record low. I'm not sure what internal polling that they're looking at but, as far as I've seen, Trump is underwater on immigration, he's underwater on the economy, he's underwater on these wars.
I don't think being anti-Trump is going to be enough for Democrats to, you know, take back both houses of Congress, but I do think that being anti-Trump and being -- putting a check on Trump is actually a pretty good message, as voters are pretty alarmed about what they're seeing.
BLACKWELL: I'm glad you brought up that approval poll because you know who's down there in the 30s with the president? Democrats. Thirty-five percent favorable, 20 points underwater here. So, how do you turn that around before November?
HACKETT: I think voters know that Republicans are in charge. They control the White House, the House, and the Senate. You know, they see on a day-to-day basis. They turn on their TVs, they look at their phones, and they see chaos, corruption, and incompetence, and they want to change the channel. They're looking for something different.
I think Democrats have to be able to show that they can hold Trump accountable if they do take back power, that they can push forward the ball on certain issues, that they can work with Republicans to get things passed. You've seen, you know, Democrats put forward these discharge petitions to move certain issues forward while they're locked out of power. I think there's a number of issues that they can work with the Republican minority once they take back Congress.
But being a check on Trump is not nothing. That's an important thing to voters right now who are seeing their costs rising, who are seeing, you know, billions of dollars going down the drain to spend on these wars. They want change.
BLACKWELL: Let's talk about cost. We're talking about this APNORC poll that just came out. It shows that 75 percent of respondents found that the president is just not doing the job as it comes to affordability. Three quarters of Americans. United says that their prices could go up 15 to 20 percent over the summer. How do you make an argument, keep us in control in Congress with those prices increasing?
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUSH DIGITAL GROUP, FORMER SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS AIDE TO LINDSEY GRAHAM AND MIKE POMPEO: Well, few things. With the pricing of gasoline, that obviously is tied to the conflict in Iran. And we all hope that there's no more bloodshed and that we can get that wrapped up sooner rather than later.
But unlike the Democrats, the president ran and Republicans ran on a platform of lower taxes, lower regulation, energy exploration at home, and also securing the border law and order and issues such as that --
BLACKWELL: And affordability.
ARRIGHI: And affordability, sure. But that all bleeds into the same -- to the same pot. For example, in the early days of the Trump presidency, how much did we hear about egg prices? Egg prices have dropped 96 percent. They're near all-time lows. Secondly, we were chasing gas prices. Yes, they were high now. But let's not forget, President Trump and the drill everywhere agenda brought them down to below 280. Now --
BLACKWELL: But who's going to be voting on what gas prices were in February?
ARRIGHI: I agree. I totally agree with you. That's why it is incumbent upon the president to message the Iran conflict better, to plot a way forward.
[23:35:04]
I'm glad we're at the negotiating table and figuring out ways forward rather than more bloodshed. I think that's a good thing. I also think the president is following through on his agenda to make sure the greatest state sponsor of terrorism on the globe doesn't have a nuclear weapon. I think Americans care about that, too.
BLACKWELL: Let me stay with you on this vote in Virginia. There's at least one Republican who's blaming his own party for last night's loss. Let's watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): You got to play chess. You got to take two, three, four moves. And when you have an adversary or opponent, a political opponent, you got to always think what are they going to do in response. So, I think this is foreseeable that it wasn't just going to be Texas. This should go on for a while. But I think in the end, the Republicans may end up losing in the long run here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: What do you think?
ARRIGHI: I have never been a big fan of gerrymandering in any form or fashion. I've been upset about redistricting battles in the past, have been caught up in the court systems, that Democrats have been doing and Republicans as well for cycles. I think what we saw in Virginia, though, was an egregious overstep. If you compare it to the even the changes made in Texas by representation changes, by numbers, they're not even close. You have Arlington, Virginia. Driving across one city, you'll drive through five different congressional districts. That is a massive overreach.
Republicans in the know vote overperformed in a ballot question that I thought was unfairly worded. You rightfully asked about that to our last guest, about fairness being put into the ballot question. It overperformed by three points. If Republicans overperformed their last performance by three points, we win -- we win the House, we win the Senate next year.
BLACKWELL: I heard a scoff.
(LAUGHTER)
HACKETT: I grew up in Virginia. And, you know, Virginia is a state where, you know, commonwealth that has had a front row seat to the chaos of the Trump presidency. I don't think Virginians were tricked here. They knew exactly what they were passing. They knew that this was about responding to what Trump has done in Texas, in Florida, in Ohio.
He started this fight and Democrats are finishing it in Virginia. And they're doing so by passing a map, by putting it in front of voters, which is not what Republicans have been doing in these states. This was a democratic process. And, you know, regardless of whether you feel the maps are unfair, you know, I will agree, they probably are unfair, but they're in response to Trump.
And at this moment, when we're seeing Republicans trying to squeeze as many seats to steal the midterms for Trump, you know, I think a state like Virginia is kind living up to its motto, six separate tyrannists. It's always to tyrants. It's standing up and fighting back and, you know, it's doing it in a temporary fashion. This goes back to the bipartisan redistricting system back in 2030.
Democrats are the party that have pushed forward for bipartisan redistricting. Republicans have blocked every single bill that they've put forward on that issue. You know, Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the White House. They could pass a bill right now to ban partisan gerrymandering, but they won't do that because Trump wants to rig the midterms.
BLACKWELL: Let's talk about Spirit Airlines and the potential for a bailout. Sources tell CNN the White House is considering giving Spirit Airlines $500 million in a bailout. This airline has been struggling for years, filed for bankruptcy -- what? Twice now?
ARRIGHI: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Why should Spirit Airlines get a half billion dollars when the Americans are struggling to pay for food and health care and on and on and on?
ARRIGHI: Well, I would note a couple of things. Number one, this is, just as you saw with TARP before and other bailout packages, this will be incredibly divisive within the Republican Party. I know Donald Trump is talking about equity stakes to regain that money. But it is important to note that while we are in a crisis, especially with the airline prices, people are going to be paying more for airfare.
If Spirit Airlines goes down, the average customer of Spirit Airlines makes between $45,000 and $90,000. And by letting a company like Spirit fail who, yes, has had a ton of internal problems, would be a very bad thing for the flying public at this time in history.
So, look, I think there's going to be robust debate within our party about the role of government and whether or not this is an acceptable position.
BLACKWELL: And so, there are some in your party who just call it straight socialism.
ARRIGHI: Right. Well, I don't -- I don't particularly -- I wouldn't particularly agree with that, but --
BLACKWELL: Why not?
ARRIGHI: -- I would -- I would have -- I would have serious concern --
BLACKWELL: Why not? The government investing $500 million into --
(CROSSTALK)
-- airline to own a portion of it, to keep it afloat.
ARRIGHI: I didn't call TARP socialism either. I think it saved our economy and it saved the world of trouble for our --
BLACKWELL: But there's a difference between saving the global banking system and saving the airline specifically.
ARRIGHI: Yes. I think -- I think -- I do think I can see a pathway forward for the president to message this appropriately, that this is a way to save our income (ph) flyers from an increased cost, that might be prohibited.
[23:40:03]
But I have my many reservations. And I want to see how that language is laid out in that -- with however that deal is made. I want to see that language because I personally am skeptical.
BLACKWELL: All right. Fifteen seconds, but go ahead.
HACKETT: I don't even think this is socialism. I think this is communism. I mean, socialism, democratic socialism in a la Bernie Sanders or Zohran Mamdani still has democracy at its core. This is national communism, national socialism. This is the president seizing a stake in a company, bailing a company out so that he can seize a stake just like he has done with Intel and Nvidia and so many other companies. He is the most corporate socialist president we've ever had.
BLACKWELL: All right. Guys, thank you. We've got a list of the bailouts there on the screen for just a second for you to look at. Thank you, guys. Next, is America about to break its promise to the Afghan allies who helped U.S. troops? The administration is now considering a plan that could send them to the Congo or even back to the Taliban. Shawn VanDiver is trying to stop it, and he'll join me next.
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[23:45:00]
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BLACKWELL: More than 1,000 Afghans, many of whom risked their lives helping U.S. forces, could soon face an impossible choice, either go to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a place they've never even seen, or go back to Afghanistan. That's what Shawn VanDiver, a Navy veteran and founder of aid group AfghanEvac, says tonight. And those Afghans are stranded at a former U.S. Army base in Qatar. They thought it would be just a temporary stop. But they've been living in limbo ever since the Trump administration stopped the visa program that allowed Afghan allies to relocate to the U.S.
Well, tonight, those 1,100 Afghans are issuing a plea to the U.S. "When your soldiers asked us to stand beside them, we stood beside them. When they asked us to interpret, we interpreted. When they asked us to fight, we fought. We have been told, over and over, for 20 years, that America does not forget its friends. We are asking to be remembered now."
Shawn VanDiver joins me now. Shawn, good to have you on. This was a promise that was made. And you were briefed on this plan by the State Department officials. I wonder what they're telling you about this plan to either the Congo or Afghanistan. How are they justifying it? SHAWN VANDIVER, NAVY VETERAN, FOUNDER OF AFGHANEVAC: Victor, thank you so much for having me on today. Look, briefed is a strong word, right? I didn't say briefed, they said briefed. The State Department folks, what happened is a bunch of people came to me sort of freaking out and others as well, saying, oh, my goodness, I cannot believe that we're considering sending these folks to the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And we were all surprised, right?
And, in fact, we had heard that it sorts of died. But just this week, it came back to us that there has been a resurgence. They were trying to get Botswana across the line. Botswana fell apart, Malaysia, Indonesia, various other countries.
There's this guy named Christian Earhart (ph) that has been flying around, trying to nail down countries to help. But as it turns out, what we're hearing is that other countries don't want to help the United States right now because we have things like visa bans and we have things like travel bans and other foreign policy decisions that are ham-fisted and poorly considered.
BLACKWELL: Some of these Afghans served as interpreters for U.S. troops, fought alongside them. More than 400 of them are children. I want to talk about the risks and the sacrifices they made aiding the U.S. Military. Talk about that element, but also the promises they were made in return.
VANDIVER: Sure. So, these are folks -- the folks at Camp As Sayliyah are 42 percent children, so around 400. There are about 50, 50 men to women thereafter. So, you end up having about seven to 800 women and children who are there. A lot of the women were special operators, people who served alongside our forces, collected intelligence for us, were pilots in the Afghan military. There's lawyers and prosecutors. There are journalists. Maybe most importantly to the Republican folks, there's 150 individual family members of active-duty U.S. Military who are stuck on that camp right there.
And these are all folks who, in one way or another, are connected to the U.S. mission. Most of them arrived there between January -- between November and January, November 2024 and January 2025. And on day one of the Trump administration, President Trump with his executive orders wiped it all away. We had to start an underground railroad because cutting off foreign aid meant that they couldn't operate the camps. They killed all the flights, and then they stopped refugee processing. So, these are folks who believed in the idea of America, and we've broken our promise.
BLACKWELL: You know what's interesting? You said for the Republican folks. There was a time when this wasn't not -- it wasn't only bipartisan, it was nonpartisan, that these people who helped America, now we would offer this to them to come to the U.S.
Many Democrats were very quick to call this out. Maryland governor and Army veteran Wes Moore called it another deeply dark and cynical day.
[23:50:01] Senator Ed Markey calls this the ultimate betrayal. Congressman Crow says that this hurts America's credibility. I wonder what it says to you that you're not hearing from Republicans in the same way.
VANDIVER: So, Victor, thank you for asking that question. Here's the thing. We are hearing from Republicans, but it's all private. Republicans are very upset about this, but they seem to be unwilling to do anything.
But, look, we can't give anybody a pass, right? I don't see a bill that has been introduced that would solve this problem. Now, we've put something together, and we're seeking partners, bipartisan partners. And look, we think that a discharge petition is the right way to go because we know that Congressman Jim Jordan is never going to let anything to help Afghans get through the House Judiciary Committee.
So, what I'm hopeful to see is that tomorrow morning or tomorrow after we brief, we have a briefing for every office on the Hill, every office is invited tomorrow, if we do that, we're hoping to see a litany of Republican partners willing to say, hey, I want to sponsor a bill to give TPS for the Afghans who are here in the United States, protect them, some non-refoulement and processing, compelling provisions for the Afghans at CAS, and a few other provisions. And, hopefully, we can get a bipartisan bill introduced, and then a discharge petition on the floor so we can finally see where everybody who says that they stood with Afghan allies actually stands.
BLACKWELL: Shawn VanDiver, thank you so much. Next, the first debate in the race for California governor has just wrapped up. Elex Michaelson joins me with the highlights.
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[23:55:00]
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BLACKWELL: The candidates for California governor just squared off on the debate stage for the first time. And, of course, this comes after a major shakeup in the race after the allegations against former congressman, Eric Swalwell. He was at one point considered the front runner among Democrats to succeed Gavin Newsom. The primary election is slated for June 2nd. Now, before that, CNN will host our very own debate with the California candidates. That's May 5th.
Let's bring in now one of the the moderators of that debate who has been covering this race out in L.A., CNN anchor and correspondent Elex Michaelson. Elex, good evening to you.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Victor.
BLACKWELL: Let's start with the Newsom of it all, loom large at the debate. How did Democrats do when they were pressed on his record?
MICHAELSON: Yes. It's an interesting question because Governor Gavin Newsom is very popular in California among Democrats right now. But the state itself and the way that the state has been governed is not all that popular when you get into the issues like homelessness and crime and other aspects of it. So, they asked the candidates to give a grade to Governor Newsom and his performance on the issue of homelessness. Here are some of what the candidates said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE PORTER, CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Notoriously tough grader, but I would probably give him a B on homelessness. I don't think this has been an easy problem to solve. But I do give him a lot of credit for calling attention to the problem.
STEVE HILTON, CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Wow. By the way, I'd love to be in your class, Katie, if you get a B for what Gavin Newsom has done on homelessness. My goodness. Of course, it's an F. It shames our state, the situation with homelessness. Nothing will change. If you have one of these Democrats in power, it will be more of the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Of course, California has more homeless people than anywhere else in the country, more residents than anywhere else in the country, too. About 150,000 homeless people by one estimate. And so, that issue is one of the key issues in this governor's race. You hear there the Republican candidate, Steve Hilton, along with Chad Bianco, giving Gavin Newsom an F.
BLACKWELL: Another issue, of course, front and center, affordability. It's a big issue in California as it is across the country. California has the highest gas prices in the U.S. right now. How are the candidates tackling that?
MICHAELSON: Yes. I mean, there's this question because California also has the highest gas prices in the country, about 61 cents a gallon, which is why when you look at the gas prices in California, they're always significantly higher than the national average. One Democrat, Matt Mahan, said it is time to suspend the gas tax. The other Democrats said we should keep it going. The Republicans say it is time to get rid of it.
But it's interesting because there haven't been a whole lot of actual policy debates or discussions on this race. A lot of it has been personality-driven. So, that's a rare issue where there's a bit of a disagreement on stage.
BLACKWELL: And Eric Swalwell, of course, left the race after these allegations of sexual misconduct, which he has denied. Which of the Democrats appear to be gaining ground now that he's out?
MICHAELSON: Well, there are two Democrats on the stage tonight who weren't even going to be on the stage before Eric Swalwell dropped out. They had been excluded because they weren't polling well enough. After Swalwell dropped out, they did a new poll. And then Xavier Becerra, the former attorney general, former secretary of Health and Human Services, and Matt Mahan, the mayor of San Jose, both then got invited onto the stage. The fact that they were on the stage at all is very, very significant for their campaigns to be included in the debate.
[00:00:00]
We have seen Becerra especially gaining when it comes to polling in the last week or so. Mahan has been gaining big in fundraising. And we'll see if either one of them get a bump after this debate now that they're more a part of the conversation.
BLACKWELL: All right, Elex, this is our first time on air together, so I'm going to hand it off to you early and give you an extra 10 seconds for "The Story Is."
MICHAELSON: Oh my God. This guy is generous.
BLACKWELL: Enjoy it.
MICHAELSON: Laura never does that.
(LAUGHTER)
All right, Victor, thank you very much. Have a great night. Good job on the show tonight.
