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Laura Coates Live
Ceasefire Under Strain; Supreme Court Allows Louisiana To Speed Up Redrawing Map; A-List Celebrities Steal Show At Meg Gala. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 04, 2026 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
UNKNOWN: That's my comfort zone, in my opinion.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right. (INAUDIBLE) do your thing.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
PHILLIP: OK.
UNKNOWN: I think I'd have to go old school Hollywood. You know, maybe the look of "Capote" by Philip Seymour Hoffman back when he played the role in -- friends of mine tell me, sometimes, I look like Philip Seymour Hoffman.
UNKNOWN: Pretty much so.
UNKNOWN: I say, look, it's not the Philip Seymour Hoffman from "Boogie Nights," it's the Philip Seymour Hoffman from "Capote." That's what I'm saying.
PHILLIP: You know what? You guys are all very true to type (ph) tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
All right, everybody, thank you very much, and thanks for watching "NewsNight." You can stream the show any time with an all-access subscription, the CNN app or cnn.com/watch. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the United States and Iran trade fire in the Strait of Hormuz, putting President Trump's gamble to the test. Will it pressure Iran to back down or cause the ceasefire to collapse? Plus, we already knew the Supreme Court cutting the Voting Rights Act was just the beginning. Well, now, Trump is calling on states to cancel elections so they can redraw their maps. Also, it's that time again, the glitz and glam from the Met Gala and the backlash over the billionaire paying for the party. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
My opening statement tonight, a ceasefire doesn't hold just because someone says it's still in effect. You know what it holds? When everyone acts like it is. And tonight, neither side is acting like this truce is on solid ground.
Let's take a look. This is a fire at an oil port in United Arab Emirates. Not the kind of thing you want to see when a ceasefire is hanging by a thread, huh? Well, the UAE says its air defenses engaged 15 missiles and four drones launched from Iran. The situation within the Strait of Hormuz? Well, that's just as dicey. A tanker about seven nautical miles north of that UAE port was reportedly hit by a projectile, and the U.S. Military is confirming it destroyed six Iranian small boats. So, about that ceasefire, Trump isn't willing to say what the current status is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, SALEM RADIO NETWORK (voice-over): Is the ceasefire over, Mr. President? Is it over? We're going to hit them tonight?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (voice-over): Well, I can't tell you that.
HEWITT: All right, that's fine.
TRUMP: You wouldn't, if I answered that question, you say this man is not smart enough to be the president of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, all of these escalated after Trump announced a plan to help stranded ships leave the strait. He calls it Project Freedom. And the U.S. says at least two ships have made it through so far. Now, getting ships through the strait, that's one thing. Keeping the ceasefire from collapsing, well, that's another. And it points to something deeper. Did Trump and Iran want the ceasefire to survive? I mean, that's a valid question or, more specifically, a three hundred dollar-question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They thought that energy would be at $300, right? Three hundred dollars a barrel. And it's like at a hundred, and I think going down, and I see it going down very substantially when this is over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, don't count on oil prices staying put if the fighting ramps back up, and that means gas prices shooting higher than they already are. One expert is warning the United States is only weeks away from $5 a gallon gas nationwide. It's at $4.46 right now as it is. So, Trump clearly has incentive to not let the ceasefire fall apart, even as he's saying Iran will be blown off the face of the earth if it targets U.S. ships.
And what about Iran? That's hard to know. They're saying they're willing to push back on Trump's plan. Is it pushing hard enough to make him walk away from the ceasefire? Even top voices within Iran seem to be trying to keep the situation from exploding back -- keep the situation from exploding back into an all-out war.
The Iranian foreign minister is saying this tonight: Events in Hormuz make clear that there is no military solution to a political crisis. But at the same time, he's also mocking Trump, saying, Project Freedom is Project Deadlock.
I'm starting tonight with professor of political science at University of Chicago and author of the Substack column, "The Escalation Trap," Robert Pape. He has spent decades wargaming this exact conflict. He has a new piece out today called "The United States Just Made a Bet it Cannot Afford to Lose."
[23:04:56]
Professor, just how big of a gamble is it for the United States to be guiding, not escorting, but guiding stranded ships out of the strait?
ROBERT PAPE, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Well, thank you very much for having me, Laura. President Trump is escalating, and he is betting that Iran will not counter escalate. And all Iran has to do to make this bet not pay off for President Trump is damage one U.S. naval ship. That is killing even just a handful of U.S. sailors, a fire on a naval ship. This would completely wreck the idea that the world should have confidence that the United States can in some way open the strait, in some way make it safe for ships to pass through the strait.
Thus far, those ships don't appear -- there's no -- Iran doesn't appear to have hit an American ship yet. However, they've gotten close and there's hardly any ships moving through the Strait of Hormuz. So, I would say that he hasn't lost the bet yet, but he is right on the edge of losing the bet.
COATES: Well, let's hope there's not any life lost for American servicemen and women. I have to ask, though, is there a chance the strategy could actually pay off? I mean, could it be a tactic to push Iranian leaders to show who really wields power in the regime?
PAPE: Well, President Trump keeps going up against history, the weight of history. So, you recall, this all started 66 days ago when he tried to use bombing to topple a regime even though that had never happened in history. Now, what he's trying to do is use the economic, the blockade, economic pressure to essentially achieve very, very similar goals.
And the problem is that the history shows that without using military force, ground forces, economic blockades almost never really achieve their goals. The best example is the pressure we put on Iraq in the 1990s.
It's important to remember that for 12 years, the United States, the international community shut down oil out of Iraq, shut down lots of goods going into Iraq for 12 solid years, crushing Iraq's economy by 47 percent. Think about that. Well, that was followed up by what? A ground invasion of Iraq. So, we just don't have a history, a case, and that's why the administration isn't touting, well, here's the six cases in history where this has worked, again, without ground pressure or without fall on military pressure. They're really not there, Laura. And this is the problem: President Trump keeps looking for desperate ways to win that history just can't back up.
COATES: Well, the treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, he insists the United States is fully in charge of the strait already. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: The Iranians do not have control of the strait. We have absolute control of the strait. We have blockaded the ships going into or out of Iranian ports. Their economy is in free fall. And everyone says they have high tolerance for pain. Well, their soldiers will not have a high tolerance for not getting paid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, who is saying the terms here, the U.S. or Iran?
PAPE: Iran is clearly setting the terms here, Laura. What you're hearing from the administration is victory rhetoric, but it's meeting escalation reality. And the UAE just got hammered here. Everybody saw that. The price of oil has not come down. The price of oil remains high.
And the bottom line is you can't talk your way to victory here. We're in the middle of a war. This war is hurting the world's economy in ways wars have not since World War II. This is dramatic pain for the world. You just can't talk your way out of this.
COATES: Professor Robert Pape, thank you so much for joining and explaining. I want to turn to White House and foreign policy reporter for Politico, Eli Stokols, and former commander of the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet, retired Vice Admiral Kevin Donegan. Admiral, let me begin with you, sir, because the president, he won't say whether the ceasefire with Iran is over. But how fragile is it at this hour?
VICE ADMIRAL KEVIN DONEGAN, FORMER VICE ADMIRAL, U.S. NAVY: Well, the way I look at ceasefires, and you've seen this, you've seen many conflicts, and rarely the ceasefires go smoothly. As you know, this is typically going to be perturbations and movements. The question is, is what we saw today going to derail, you know, the overall trend of the ceasefire? And we don't know that. Time is going to tell.
I think the way that I look at this is -- the way U.S. postures itself here with the blockade is to add on now this other element, try to flip the script a little bit on the Iranians who said, look, all the traffic comes next to our coast then leaves, and then we control the straits.
[23:10:08] What the U.S. has done is said, no, don't go through there and then ask immunity, come to the south, and we're going to protect you with Project Freedom, and you can come and go as you want down there. Now, that's not going to be an easy thing to do. They took the first set of ships through last night, you know, their time, and they got through OK. You know, those ships have got to the other side.
But this isn't going to instantly restart flow. It's going to take time. And we're going to have to see how it pans out because the Iranian reaction was to, you know, fire for effect, so to speak, shoot at a ship, another ship, not part of the ships that were going through, and attack the UAE. What we don't know is if that's going to be a sequence of events or was that the one thing because the U.S. response to that was to sink the ships that were coming towards the ships that are heading out.
COATES: But, you know, I mean, a top Iranian official warns the United States and the UAE against getting into a quagmire, a phrase we heard repeatedly during last week's hearings with Secretary Hegseth. Now, Trump ally, Senator Lindsey Graham, he is calling for a -- quote, unquote -- "forceful response." So, what response do White House sources say the president is leaning toward?
ELI STOKOLS, WHITE HOUSE AND FOREIGN POLICY CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: It's almost impossible to figure that out because I'm not sure White House sources really know or that the president really knows at this point. He clearly wants a win. He would like an off-ramp, but that's not there. As Professor Pape just pointed out, he can't talk his way to victory.
And the Iranians are not, at this point, giving him enough in the negotiations, anything close to a fig leaf that he can hold up to the American people and say, this is why we did this. The Iranians won't even talk about the nuclear stuff until you settle the blockade. They're not going to put anyone on a plane to Pakistan as long as the strait is blockaded.
And so, they have to deal with that first. And until the Iranians back down on that, we're dealing with trying to figure out how to -- how to, you know, open up the strait or we're just going to be at this impasse. The president today, you know, kind of downplayed those skirmishes --
COATES: Yes.
STOKOLS: -- in the strait and said, oh, it's just a Korean ship that got hit. No big deal. Korea, you can come take care of it if you want. But he made it very clear that he didn't see that or didn't want to see that as the ceasefire falling apart. So, it's telling Iran and it's telling the world that this president is not really interested at the moment in escalating because he probably has a lot of advisors telling him exactly what the professor laid out, which is that you can bomb away and it's not going to really move the needle. And the economic pressure, Iran has shown over years that they can withstand a lot of economic pressure. So, in terms of the moves, it's hard to know where he's going to go, and I'm not sure the president knows at this point.
COATES: Well, admiral, Project Freedom includes 15,000 service members, more than a hundred land and sea-based aircraft. How sustainable is this plan to reopen the strait?
DONEGAN: Well, the way that this is panning out is, as you're seeing, the U.S. isn't directly escorting ships. What the U.S. is doing is creating this sanctuary by using the, you know, air superiority they have, using things like the ships that are on either side of the strait, there are ships on both sides of the U.S. and, of course, their intelligence surveillance. In this case, the small boats were attacked by helicopters. There's both army helicopters and navy helicopters there.
So, from a tactical standpoint, I think it's very sustainable because it's not going to -- this sanctuary doesn't have to be held 24-7. It has to be held while the ships are transiting. So, for the short term, we have so many forces in the area, this is not going to be something that's hard to sustain.
In essence, think of it this way: When we were trying to establish air superiority in Iran, that wasn't established instantly. And maritime superiority is the same thing. They're starting to roll back.
You know, Iran isn't where it was when this thing started because -- what could they muster? Some missiles. Of course, some drones that are lingering throughout both of these. They still have capability to do, but they don't have eyes to see right now. They were able to put six boats in the water and tried to dash them across the strait. That didn't work out. So, it's absolutely sustainable, Laura, with the forces they have in the region.
Now, the question is, as you just heard through many, you know, how -- who has the time advantage here? You know, it's the international pressure that the global economy is feeling. Is that timeline shorter than what the Iranians believe they have to hold out because the blockade is having an impact on their economy, but it takes time for that to have an impact?
COATES: Well, Eli, let's talk about the timeline because the former defense secretary, Leon Panetta, believes that this conflict is starting to feel like what he calls a forever war. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON PANETTA, FORMER UNITED STATES DEFENSE SECRETARY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Each side is afraid of appearing to be weak, each side thinks that time is on their side, and each believes that the other is a paper tiger.
[23:15:04]
That's not a good prescription for ending the war. It's a prescription for forever war.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: So, Eli, the president is calling it a mini war. Is the White House considering a prolonged conflict scenario?
STOKOLS: I mean, it has been interesting. I think they're aware of this because the messaging is this talking point that you've heard of the president's White House primetime address a few weeks ago. You heard it again in speeches from him in Florida over the weekend comparing this to other wars and saying, you know, Vietnam went on more than two decades, World War II was four plus years, you know, this is just six weeks, seven weeks, like let's calm down. He's trying to make it clear that we're not at that place yet.
But Leon Panetta makes a point. I think, you know, why did Vietnam go on so long? It went on so long because no American president wanted to be the one to walk away and defeat. And I think we're dealing with a similar dynamic already in this conflict where the president launched this war.
And he needs to find a way to have a win at the end of the day. And with Iran and with the people that he's dealing with in Iran, they do, too. They're not giving him that.
And so, we are sort of in this -- we're stuck in the mud here. And how long that goes, we don't know. I mean, it's also possible that Donald Trump could just declare victory one day, walk away, and pretend none of this ever happened.
COATES: He has (INAUDIBLE).
STOKOLS: And that is an option. You know, he said aloud, maybe we don't need to make a deal with them. And so, he's mulling that as well. You know, can you just say, you know, we took out their leadership, we degraded the proxies in the region, we set back their nuclear program, that's enough? He's not at that point yet. But if the economic pressure rises, he's not getting what he wants out of negotiations, we could see that.
COATES: Admiral Donegan, Eli, thank you both so much. Still ahead, the president's message to Republicans worried about gas prices, the midterms. Don't trust the polls and blame Joe Biden instead. Plus, Alabama enters the scramble to redraw the midterm maps as Trump demands interrupting elections in order to get maps in his favor. Congressman Shomari Figures of Alabama, whose district may actually be at stake and at risk, joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Well, just in tonight, the Supreme Court says Louisiana can speed up its efforts to redraw congressional maps after Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act was effectively gutted. The move means one of the state's majority Black districts will likely vanish. Usually, there's a brief pause after a ruling to give the losing party a chance to seek a new hearing. But today's decision means Louisiana can redraw the maps effectively now.
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson said the decision is -- quote -- "tantamount to an approval of Louisiana's rush to pause the ongoing election in order to pass a new map." Samuel Alito, who drafted the majority opinion, though, fired back, saying -- quote -- "That is a ground-less and utterly irresponsible charge."
Louisiana is just one state using the ruling to justify redistricting. You got Tennessee and Alabama also doing the same thing as the national battle intensifies. In fact, Alabama's governor has called a special session now to be ready to withdraw the maps before this month's primary.
Joining me now, Alabama Democratic Congressman Shomari Figures. Congressman, thank you for joining. As you know, Alabama has tried to redraw the maps before. Both an appeals court and the Supreme Court ruled those maps violated Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. And that ruling, of course, protected your district. But now that Section 2 has been effectively gutted, do you have confidence, congressman, that the ruling will hold and your district will survive?
REP. SHOMARI FIGURES (D-AL): We do have confidence because the Alabama case was a little bit different than the Louisiana case. In the case in Alabama, they actually made a finding of intentional discrimination. They also found a Section 2 violation. That preliminary finding went up to the Supreme Court once before back in 2023, and the Supreme Court upheld that preliminary finding.
And then also in this most recent decision in the Louisiana case, they referenced the Alabama case several times throughout it, including at the end of that decision. They said, we're not overturning the Alabama case because Alabama never even attempted to defend its map as a partisan gerrymander, which is what the Louisiana case was essentially all about.
So, we have confidence for those reasons in addition to a court order that's in place in our case that the court -- that the state of Alabama actually agreed not to redraw its maps ahead of the 2030 census unless the Supreme Court overturned the case.
COATES: Key distinctions from Louisiana. There are concerns, of course, as to whether Alabama might change its mind and its defense, similar to how Louisiana did change their mind at one point, but we will see. Alabama's primary election, it happens -- what? May 19th. But President Trump, he's now calling on states to cancel elections. And here's a quote. "We cannot allow there to be an election that is conducted unconstitutionally."
So, congressman, what happens if Alabama's primary goes forward, then the governor orders a new one? Are you prepared for that possibility no matter how remote?
FIGURES: Absolutely. I mean, we're going to show up to the fight in whatever arena that takes place in. And so, we understand the realities of the state legislature. Republicans have a super majority in both chambers and obviously a Republican governor. But we won't go down without a fight.
[23:24:56]
We're going to continue to push back, we're going to continue to litigate this, we're going to continue to raise our voices and ultimately get people out to the polls regardless of where the lines end up being drawn. But we have confidence here in the state of Alabama that the lines will stay in place at least through this next election.
COATES: Governor Kay Ivey initially said that she was not going to call a special session. Now, she is. Trump has also falsely claimed that elections he and other Republicans lost were -- quote -- "rigged." Do you think that the president is trying to rig the vote for the midterms here?
FIGURES: Well, I think absolutely. I think when you look across the board at everything from his approval ratings to the forecast of election outcomes in the midterm to how unpopular everything from the one big bill is to the war in Iran to fuel prices to his treatment of farmers in the ag community, you know, he's grasping for straws, he's doing everything that he can to ensure that Republicans stay in power. We're unfortunately seeing states basically bend the knee and do whatever he asks. We saw this start in Texas. We've seen it spread now with the backing of this Supreme Court ruling to other states as well.
So, we're going to continue to push back and call it like we see it. But at the end of the day, I'm pretty confident here in the state of Alabama that our district lines will remain in place.
COATES: One way of pushback has come from the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries. He announced just today that New York is going to look into redrawing congressional maps. I know you have described the distinction between the Alabama case and Louisiana case, but many looked at that voting rights decision and said they need to fight fire with fire. Some Democrats think that's indeed the case. Others feel like it will continue the cycle of gerrymandering. How should Democrats be responding to this moment?
FIGURES: I think you don't have a choice but to fight back 100 percent. If you're going to see states across the south and across the country engage in efforts to minimize Democratic opportunities to pick up congressional seats, Democratic-led states do not have any other option other than to do it.
It is a race to the bottom. My concern is that once we get to the bottom, the numbers will look a lot like what they did when we started or Democrats will end up with a significant advantage because of the fact that more people live in the blue states than in the red states and so you have more congressional districts.
So, look, this is not a -- this is not what democracy is about. This is not how it should be. This whole attitude of let's just minimize the voice of our political adversaries, you know, if this is the attitude back during the constitutional convention, we never would have left out with the United States of America. And so, you know, we have to have that realization and come to the table and be Americans at the end of the day.
COATES: Congressman Shomari Figures, thank you.
FIGURES: Thank you.
COATES: Next, tough new polling for the president and Republicans just six months to go until the midterms. But a GOP strategy may be emerging. Just frame Biden. We'll debate it next. And later, fashion and politics collide at the Met Gala where outfits turn heads and where Jeff Bezos's involvement turned out protesters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: We're six months away from the midterms, and you'd think President Trump would try to sell Americans on the economy or the war or even immigration. But he has a different message settled on today. All the polls showing him underwater, lying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They give me fake polls. They tell me about polls and this -- you know, it's interesting. They did a poll on the war with Iran, and they said only 32 percent of the people like it. Well, when you explain it, like, is it OK for Iran to have a nuclear weapon? It wouldn't be 32 percent. But even if you said that, that would be at 32 percent because the polls are fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: There is a new poll out about the war in Iran. It found 33 percent approve of the situation. You see the alternate. And whether Trump wants to believe it or not, there are more troubling numbers. The same poll found only 25 percent of independents approve of the job he's doing.
I want to talk more about all this with former House and Senate Republican candidate, Tiffany Smiley, and Democratic strategist Sawyer Hackett. Glad to have both of you. I think, Tiffany, I don't really understand this particular tactic. I know you talked about it before. But is he ignoring some major warning signs by not at least addressing and maybe even heeding what the polls are saying?
TIFFANY SMILEY, FOUNDER OF ENDEAVOR PAC, FORMER HOUSE AND SENATE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE: Yes. Well, look, I mean, he has already been out campaigning for the midterms. He has been in Nevada, he has been in Arizona talking about those kitchen table topics that are affecting Americans. But I think we need to look at some facts and back up a little bit. I don't think we're just blaming everything on Biden.
But the fact is, is that the inflation, I call it the "Inflation Production Act" and the "Build Back Broke" where massive amounts of money were pushed into our economy, taxpayer dollars. Like it raised the highest inflation in my lifetime. And so, that's what Trump walked into. And inflation is an issue where you can't just flip a switch and turn it off or turn it on.
[23:35:03]
So, Trump came into an economy that was completely broken. And he's taking approaches to get it back on track. What we have to acknowledge is not all doom and gloom. There are some good things happening.
COATES: But don't you think that voters, oftentimes, they're smart enough to realize that when it's great and it's in your favor, you take responsibility and acceptance and all the credit? But if there's something else, it's a matter of this had been happening in the past, a long time ago. I wonder about voters who are independent in particular because Trump thinks the polls are fake. But hear what one independent voter actually tells Fox News. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY JOSEPHINE, INDEPENDENT VOTER: Well, honestly, what has been holding me back is I feel like the change that I was expecting from the president himself, I don't feel in my everyday life, which is concerning to me. I still feel obviously that, you know, prices are very, very, very high. You know, if you're going to the grocery store or just in general because inflation still exists. Unfortunately, now, we have the higher gas prices, which really hurt, you know, everyday people in their pocket. And I've voted my entire life. And the frustration right now is -- it's just unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, she's not going back very far. She's talking about what you campaigned on and the promises and doesn't feel them. So, how does Trump combat that?
SMILEY: Yes. Well, he has only been in office for a year and three months now. So, he is combating it.
COATES: Again.
SMILEY: And you have to remember, if people are going to with the no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, increased child credit tax, they are going to start, in the next couple of months, getting more money back in their pockets, which is good. That is a -- that is a good thing that is happening for the American people.
COATES: But the Democrats --
SMILEY: But there are six months until the midterms.
COATES: Hold on, Tiffany. I do want to hear -- Sawyer, what's your point?
SAWYER HACKETT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, Trump came into office. Inflation was lower when he came into office than it is today. Gas prices are through the roof today. I mean, voters know that this was a choice election. They picked Donald Trump to lower their prices. They picked Donald Trump to get us out of these foreign wars.
You know, our prices are higher today than they were when he took office. We're stuck in a Middle East war that he promised us not to get into. You know, on immigration, he's 19 points underwater. He has put these masked, you know, secret police on our streets that have really just buried his numbers on immigration.
Across the board, voters are rejecting what they chose in 2024, which was, you know, they elected trump the lower prices and fix the economy, and he has accelerated things in a bad direction, not in a good direction.
COATES: Listen to what Karl Rove had to say because he built up the point, I think, you're raising, Tiffany, in terms of he believes that Trump and Republicans should blame Biden, and they should go back from a year and three months. Listen to what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARL ROVE, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH SENIOR ADVISER: They got to go on the offense by saying on the big issues of the day, we can do better than the other side. Affordability? Where were you back when we had 8 percent inflation under Joe Biden? Were you, my Democrat opponent, opposed to those policies?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That's why he looks exactly the same.
(LAUGHTER)
Number two, are voters going to buy that?
HACKETT: No, they're not going to buy that. I mean, it's this kind of classic like strategy around elections where you try to present this election as a choice rather than a referendum. But voters made their choice again in 2024. They elected Donald Trump to lower prices. Prices are higher today. They elected him to get out of foreign wars. We're stuck in a Middle East war that he can't seem to get us out of.
And it's only going to get worse from here. I mean, most experts expect that, you know, the price of oil is not going to fall any time soon. Even if the Strait of Hormuz opens tomorrow, there's going to be about a six-month gap before we even start to see those prices fall. We could be seeing $5, $6 gas as soon as, you know, June, July this summer. I mean, I don't see how he's going to turn this around.
The Republicans are in a death spiral, political death spiral right now of their own making, and it's because they've tied themselves to this megalomaniac who has no, you know, intention on fixing the everyday problems that people are dealing with as much as he has re- upholstering, you know, his ballroom or the marble on a reflecting pool.
COATES: Tiffany? SMILEY: Well, let's not forget that the Democrat candidate, Kamala Harris, couldn't win eight single swing state when she ran. So, you know --
HACKETT: What is that? What does have to do with anything, though? What does have to do with anything, though?
SMILEY: That's how bad it was. That's how bad inflation was.
HACKETT: And he has made it worse.
SMILEY: That's how bad our economy is. And he hasn't made it worse. He's taking --
HACKETT: Inflation is higher today than it was when he took office.
SMILEY: Nine percent inflation with Joe Biden was the highest --
HACKETT: Three percent inflation when Biden left office.
SMILEY: -- in my life.
HACKETT: 3.3 percent now.
SMILEY: So, we're at a point now where things are going in the right direction in certain subsects. Yes, yes, gas --
COATES: What about the point gas getting higher?
SMILEY: Gas prices need to come down. Yes, they do. I'm a mom of three boys. I know that groceries are higher. OK. So, President Trump has a job ahead of him and the Republicans, too, to make sure that the American people know that it will continue to get better. That it's not going to get worse.
[23:40:00]
We will not go back to Biden-Kamala era. It will -- it will get to a point to where they know this is what I voted for. There are six months --
COATES: Tiffany, hold on.
SMILEY: -- until the midterm, which is a lifetime in politics.
COATES: Tiffany, Tiffany, I appreciate your viewpoints.
SMILEY: Yes.
COATES: Stop talking over me. OK?
SMILEY: Yes.
COATES: Here's the point -- a question I have for you. How does that timeline work with voters? Does it -- you say they will, it should, it sounds speculative to certain voters. So, how do you have a timeline that works for voters when the midterm elections are coming up?
SMILEY: Yes. Because they're coming up in six months, which in politics is a lifetime, a lot can change. And I would never underestimate President Trump.
HACKETT: He said affordability was bullshit this weekend.
SMILEY: He could come back. Look what he came back from and won -- and won the votes of the American people. So --
COATES: And your point, Sawyer, though, is what? That he -- that he has made it worse?
HACKETT: That --
COATES: That there is no light at the end of the tunnel? But then how Democrats seize on that?
HACKETT: That even if they follow Karl Rove's advice, they have -- the lead messenger of their party has no ability to stay on message. I mean, they can talk about affordability all they want. They can talk about, you know, kitchen table issues. Donald Trump is talking about, you know, the marble of the reflecting pool. He's talking about building his arch. He's playing with little models like -- it looks like Marie Antoinette, talking about this building, these megalomaniac-like image building things while Americans are worried about the cost of gas and the cost of groceries, things that are going up under Trump.
SMILEY: And I think the trouble for the Democrats is they seem to be going, you know, far-left. You look at these candidates that are coming up. They're far-left progressive candidates. Fetterman, who seems to be the last remaining moderate commonsense Democrat, is sort of a lone wolf in the Democrat Party. So, it will be interesting in the midterm to see how it all shakes out.
COATES: Well, the debate continues. Tiffany, Sawyer, thank you both. Up next, the backlash against Jeff Bezos hits the Met Gala as the billionaire sponsors the event with his wife taking center stage as honorary co-chair. We'll talk about the controversy and yes, all the messy looks with -- and the fashion from tonight with Pulitzer Prize- winning fashion critic, Robin Givhan, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Well, it's the first Monday in May, which means it is fashion's biggest night. All the biggest stars sitting in the Met Gala carpet and decked out from head to toe from Beyonce, one of the co- chairs this evening, to the unrecognizable Heidi Klum dressed as a marble statue. If you don't recognize the old man to Beyonce's right, that's Bad Bunny. Now, the theme this year is costume art, focusing on the idea of the body as a blank canvas and the fashion being the art. And while it's easy to get caught up in all the hottest looks in the evening, there's a major elephant in the room, Jeff and Lauren Sanchez Bezos. They're the primary sponsors of this year's gala, which has sparked massive outrage, including protests and calls to boycott the event.
Joining me now, contributing opinion writer for "The New York Times" and former fashion editor for "The Washington Post" and extraordinary author as well, Robin Givhan. I'm so glad to have you here, Robin.
ROBIN GIVHAN, CONTRIBUTING OPINION WRITER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thanks, Laura.
COATES: I mean, I'm going to get to the best looks of the evening and get your take on that in a moment, but we have to talk about the Bezos of it all.
GIVHAN: Yes.
COATES: You saw Lauren Sanchez obviously appearing on the red carpet without her husband, Jeff. Did they read the room?
GIVHAN: Wow! That is a very good question. I think you -- if I had to make a guess, I would say yes. I mean, I say that because Mark Zuckerberg was also there, and he did not walk the red carpet. So, I think there is this sense that all of those -- the billionaires sort of taking over the Met Gala did not sit well with people.
COATES: But why is that? Explain to the audience why this particular pairing, in this year of all years, when you've got other millionaire, gazillionaire, financers, why is this the year that it's so problematic?
GIVHAN: Well, I think it's multiple things. I think the first is it is this year and people are particularly sensitive to income inequality. They are particularly sensitive to the ways in which billionaires seem to have invaded our government and have taken this outsize sort of control over people's lives, whether it's, you know, Jeff Bezos and the company he founded, Amazon, or whether it's Elon Musk and his leadership during DOGE. I think there's a sense of why are the billionaires running the country?
And then I think it's also the element of this money comes from tech, and there is a sense that this is money that comes from perhaps changing our lives, but we're starting to wonder if they're actually making our lives better. And there's a sense that this is cold money, that this is soulless money, and it's being pushed into an institution that is focused on creativity and the human spirit. And while there's lots of complications with that, it just feels like these two things are in tension with each other.
COATES: Let's talk about intentionality in the way in which Lauren Sanchez Bezos dressed tonight. She seemed to really understand maybe how she was being perceived. And she wore and draw inspiration from the painting, Madame X, which was by John Singer Sargent, one of the most, at the time, scandalous portraits of the Gilded Age. What does her look say to you? Because there are some who are commenting from Madame X alone. It was somebody who was almost mocking this in a combative way, the idea of the perception of high society and the realities of those tensions.
[23:49:58]
GIVHAN: Well, I don't know, based on the way that she has chosen her clothes in the past. I don't know that she has suddenly taken this shift into taking advantage of all the communication skills that clothing and that fashion has.
But I do think that in choosing that particular portrait, I mean, John Singer Sargent painted society women of his day. And I think there is this sort of -- you could look at that and say she sees herself in that category or perhaps aspires to that category.
And I also think, you know, as I was sort of looking at some of the reaction out there in the Wild West of social media, there were a lot of people who sort of felt like this is the dress she wanted to wear, regardless of what the theme of the evening was going to be, and she sort of wedged the dress she wanted to wear into the theme. I mean, it is of a piece with the style that she has presented on red carpets and at other formal occasions.
COATES: A few others had a similar take as well in terms of the appearance of Madame X. I mean, costume art was the theme. A little bit vague for plenty of people.
GIVHAN: Well, costume art is the theme of the exhibition.
COATES: Yes.
GIVHAN: The theme of the gala, fashion is art.
COATES: Fashion is art. Well, let's talk about those who wore fashion and get your say. What was artful about it? I want some rapid fire out the reviews. We've got Heidi Klum. What do you think?
GIVHAN: That to me is great for Heidi Klum's Halloween party.
COATES: Oh. Beyonce.
GIVHAN: You know, I was fascinated by this look because it felt very different for her. She usually is in a mermaid gown. I was really intrigued to see a different silhouette. And I thought it was lovely that she worked with a designer like Olivier Rousteing, who used to be at Balmain. He's no longer there. But they have a long history together. So, I thought that was a very nice sort of strong relationship showing there.
COATES: Sarah Paulson.
GIVHAN: You know, I and maybe this is just me, I didn't understand the $1 mask.
COATES: Oh. GIVHAN: The eye mask.
COATES: All right. How about Bad Bunny, Super Bowl halftime performer extraordinaire?
GIVHAN: Well, I think it is always brave when you decide that you're going to be yourself 40 years in the future.
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: OK. Well, there you go. One more. One more. I got Janelle Monae. This one I have, it was interesting. Janelle Monae. Show me that one. What do you think?
GIVHAN: I thought it was one of the few ensembles that really kind of used fashion and art in a provocative way and an appointed way. And I thought the idea of mixing technology and nature was a very relevant message for the evening.
COATES: I love her. So, I want to show her again. Robin Givhan, thank you so much. Glad to have you here. Up next, who will succeed Gavin Newsom as the next governor of California? How much is his record going to shape the race? ell, the big CNN debate between the candidates is tomorrow night. Moderator Elex Michaelson is with me on that and more, next.
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[23:55:00]
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COATES: It's almost midnight here on the East Coast, which means it's almost time for Elex Michaelson. We're getting ready for the candidates to face off in the CNN California governor primary debate. It's tomorrow night, 9 p.m. East, 6 p.m. Pacific. And who is here? One of the moderators of that debate, our friend, Elex, who is in Los Angeles. I cannot wait for this debate and for you guys to moderate.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
COATES: You got early voting underway in the primary. You got a crowd full of Democrats who are trying to get one of those top two spots after Swalwell left. Who's got the momentum heading in?
MICHAELSON: Well, this thing is wide open and there's all sorts of polls showing you different things. It seems like Xavier Becerra has the most momentum. He is the secretary of -- former secretary of Housing and Urban Development, former attorney general, former member of Congress. He has seen his stakes rise after Eric Swalwell dropped out. He was the biggest beneficiary.
We're just looking at a poll there. That's one of the polls that shows Tom Steyer in a good position number. He spent over $140 million of his own money.
(LAUGHTER)
He's still not in a commanding lead after spending all of that money. Steve Hilton, a Republican, doing really well. He has been endorsed by President Trump.
But there's a situation where you see four or five people all sort of within the margin of error, all very close to each other, all with a chance of winning, which is why this debate is so important, why this race is so interesting, not only if you're living in California, but all around the country.
COATES: Of course. I mean, also, I mean, Newsom has loomed pretty large in the last few debates with the Republican pressing Democrats on Newsom's record. He pushed back pretty fiercely when he was asked about it on Bill Maher. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Since I've been governor, no other developed nation has outperformed our economy. No other state has outperformed the economy of state of California.
BILL MAHER, HBO POLITICAL TALK SHOW HOST: Do you think people feel that --
NEWSOM: They may not feel that in every way, shape or form, but we dominate in every key industry. We also have seen the last three years population growth. We've got to update our talking points. We've seen a 9 percent decline in unsheltered homelessness. We've got to update our talking points. We've seen a 60 percent increase in permits for housing. We've got to update talking points. I'm very proud of the state of California.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, are we seeing the Democrats try to own that record or distance themselves from it?
MICHAELSON: It's a tough thing for Democrats because on the one hand, Governor Newsom is pretty popular among California Democrats, could end up being the Democratic nominee for president. On the other hand, there are other stats that he's not talking about.
[00:00:02]
The fact that California has the highest unemployment in the entire country, among the most unaffordable homes in the entire country, the highest gas prices, the most number of homeless. And real sort of embarrassing problems like high-speed rail, which is, you know, more than a hundred billion dollars over budget. And so, there's that question, too, of the Democratic record and this idea of maybe good intentions but not great results. And so, Democrats are both trying to run with Newsom and against him at the same time.
COATES: Well, I cannot wait to watch. Have a great debate and a great show tonight, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Thank you so much, Laura.
