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Laura Coates Live

Republicans Erased Tennessee's Only Black Majority District; U.S. and Iran Exchange Fire Around Strait of Hormuz; Tracking Hantavirus. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 07, 2026 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

UNKNOWN: -- jersey of Mike Vasil. The ready relief pitcher who my son is living with in Chicago right now, my son is a minor league baseball player, going to make the --

(LAUGHTER)

I need the pope to help pray for Mike Vasil, he's got Tommy John surgery, and my son.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That was unexpected. OK. All right.

UNKNOWN: The Canadian part of me will give the man some maple sugar for pockets of his robe. He might get a little sugar fix.

UNKNOWN: Tiger season tickets so we can support a team that will not disappoint us much.

PHILLIP: Oh.

UNKNOWN: Oh.

PHILLIP: Everybody, thank you very much for joining us and thanks for watching "NewsNight." You can stream the show any time with an all access subscription in the CNN app or at cnn.com/watch. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, redistricting fight, it arrives in Tennessee as Republicans erased the state's only Black majority district. Now what? Plus, breaking tonight, new military strikes between the United States and Iran jeopardizing this so-called ceasefire. Is the president's patience about to run out? And later, President Trump briefed on the hantavirus cruise ship and says he's hopeful it's under control as health officials try to avoid any panic. I've got a top doctor joining me tonight to set the record straight and answer your questions. I know you have some. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

My opening statement tonight, Tennessee just proved the critics of the Supreme Court were right. It took what? Barely a week. State Republicans pushed a new congressional map and got it to the governor's desk in just eight days, and that makes Tennessee the first state to officially redraw and pass a new map since the six conservative Supreme Court justices gutted Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. And man, Tennessee Democrats are furious. Bullhorns blew out the announcement of the bill's final vote in the state house.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Ayes 64, 25 nays. Three reps did not vote in. House Bill 7003, having received a constitutional majority, I hereby declare it passed. Without objection (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And then, that bill went to the state senate where the protests got even louder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Let Memphis go! Let Memphis go! Let Memphis go!

COATES: If you couldn't hear what they were saying, they're shouting, let Memphis go. That's because the district getting cut into three pieces that includes Memphis, a majority Black city in a state that's overwhelmingly white. And that is why Democrats are not describing this as some kind of coincidence or routine mapmaking exercise. They're calling it exactly what they think it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. GLORIA JOHNSON (D-TN): This is not a special session. This is a white power rally and a white power grab. Vote yes. You're telling everyone you're a racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. JUSTIN PEARSON (D-TN): These maps are racist tools of white supremacy at the behest of the most powerful white supremacist in the United States of America, Donald J. Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. ANTONIO PARKINSON (D-TN): You cannot celebrate Dr. King in January, and then turn around and killed the Black voice of Tennessee in May.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: One of the representatives, Gloria Johnson, will join me in just a moment. Look, there's a lot of anger over this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COATES: Frankly, it's not hard to see why there's anger. But this isn't just about emotion. It's math. Cold hard math.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Right now, just one of Tennessee's nine districts is blue. That lone district will now get carved up, which means the entire state is likely to go red in the midterms. And when you look at who lives in that very place being split apart, the partisan math and the racial math start looking like the same thing. Tennessee, about 16 percent Black, 71 percent white. But Memphis specifically, well, that's nearly 63 percent Black. So, all those voters will now be scattered into other districts. Their political power diluted.

And that's exactly the alarm bell that was ringing at the Supreme Court's ruling just last week. The court said that race cannot be what drives the map.

But now, Tennessee, they're showing what happens when partisanship or alleged partisanship is driving it instead. In Tennessee, they may be the -- what? Only first of many dominoes because other southern states are already moving. You got Louisiana, Alabama, South Carolina. Blue states are looking at same boards and realizing that they cannot sit on the sidelines.

[23:05:00]

And so, it begs the question, where does it end? One of the nation's most influential political mapmakers, well, they put it this way: There is no more rule of law in redistricting. There have to be some constraints somewhere. Otherwise, we don't really have elections.

Let's talk about it. Tennessee State Rep Democrat Gloria Johnson joins me now. Representative, thank you for being here. I mean, I have to start first by asking you about how this actually played out on the state house floor. We saw chaos as Republicans rushed this through in just really hours. What are your thoughts on how all that unfolded today?

JOHNSON: It's -- it was just -- it was a travesty, the whole thing. I mean, I feel like I've been in a Klan meeting for three days. I mean, it feels like that a lot of times on the house floor in Tennessee, but this was so blatant. It is utterly ridiculous.

And when you see -- I stood up and I talked about how the map was racist, and I said it was a white power rally and all of these things. And then, when one of my colleagues, a young Black man, Rep. Justin Jones, used the same language I used, he was called out and he lost his time to speak. And they were objecting to him, saying the things.

You know, how do you demonstrate how racist that house war is by letting the white woman say what she wants to say, but when a Black man does that, you object and cut his time?

COATES: Well, you know, the lawmakers that are responding to you tonight, they insist that this has nothing to do with race. They insist it was purely political. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN STEVENS (R-TN): The maps were drawn to maximize the potential Republican partisan advantage by winning and having a chance and opportunity to win all nine congressional districts for the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: What's your response? This is about red and blue, not black and white.

JOHNSON: Bless their hearts. They are such liars. They know what they are doing. They absolutely know. As a matter of fact, one of the things that was said today on the house floor, which was very interesting and very telling, they said that they used census data to draw the maps. And then they claimed it was partisan. There's no partisanship in census data. They said the only data they used was census data. And then they said -- they said that it was based on partisanship. But there is no partisanship data with census data.

So, they're not the sharpest knives in the drawer. They're vicious, they're evil, and they're racist. But they're also cowards. They know that they can't win this next election on their ideas, and so they're going to have to cheat to get more seats, and that's what this was.

You know, that Shelby County seat has been that way for a hundred years. It wasn't -- I mean, just a couple of years ago, lawyers and judges said that that map was fair and that district has been that way for a long time. And the fact that, all of a sudden, it's an issue, and Governor Lee and our super majority pretend like, because of some other court decision, we've got to do this now, that's a lie. It's a power grab and that's all that it ever was.

And the chaos they are creating in our 95 counties with -- you know, we've already got Congress folks running. They've been running for months. And so, now, we're going to have a new deadline of May 15th that people can refile to run for this election. It's -- it's just outrageous. It's going to cost every one of our counties so much money to rewrite the ballot, reprogram the machines, all of these things in the middle of an election that's already been going on.

COATES: You know, I have to ask you. As a white woman who is accusing your white colleagues of having a Klan rally on the state floor, what is their reaction to you privately? I mean, I see what their reaction is publicly, but I have to wonder what happens behind closed doors when you have made these claims they can't obviously take kindly to them. Maybe some were smirking in the background. But I got to know what they are saying to you. Are they offended? Are they angry?

[23:10:00]

Are they in agreement? What's happening? JOHNSON: You know, they act -- if you say that -- typically, what I say is legislation is racist or your comments were racist. I don't typically say that a person is racist. But it's a new time and a new day. If your comments are racist, if your policy is racist, well, I got to deduce something from that. And so, what they did, and I said today, if you make this a yes vote, you're telling me you are a racist. There's no way around it.

But the funny thing is -- to me is like they do get so offended when you call them a racist, which means they must think it's a bad thing. And so, I'm like, OK, then stop being racist. It's simple, really.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Well, I'm just curious as to what their reaction. Thank you for joining us today. I appreciate your time.

I want to keep this conversation going with Natasha Alford, senior vice president and chief content officer of TheGrio, and Marc LoPresti, Wall Street veteran and CEO of Market Rebellion.

I mean, Natasha, let me start with you because this is obviously not the end. You've got Louisiana, you got Alabama, you got South Carolina, all likely to redistrict and also give Republicans more seats in the House. Blue states thinking about responding in kind. You already see it happening in places like Virginia where they're -- and California, of course, began the discussion. But I want your reaction to the fact that this is happening today and also what representative talked about in terms of the accusations of this being synonymous with a Klan rally.

NATASHA ALFORD, AUTHOR, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF CONTENT OFFICER AT THEGRIO: Well, I want to say that my father and my mother were alive when James Meredith was shot marching from Memphis to Jackson. Ok? And the problem with the way these conversations happen is that people take that context away. So, they think just because we say this is about politics, this is about partisanship, you can remove the factor of race. You cannot ignore America's history.

The fact that this majority black district exists in Memphis is tied to racism. How did the black people get there? How did they all end up sort of being in the same area? It's tied to that.

So, you're looking at an opportunity to let people have their voices heard and you're saying we're going to break that up for our partisan advantage and ignore the very blatant fact that you are silencing Black voices.

COATES: The Supreme Court has been, I wouldn't say a proponent of, but accepting a partisan gerrymandering, so to speak, partisan districts with an eye towards believing we're in a post-racial world. Of course, I quibble with that. But you had a reaction, almost visceral, to the idea of the accusations being leveled against the Republican members of that state legislature. What are your thoughts?

MARC LOPRESTI, CEO OF MARKET REBELLION, WALL STREET VETERAN: Yeah, I did. I think that kind of rhetoric is really dangerous comparing to a Klan rally. I don't think that we need to bring it to that level to have educated political discourse. I also don't think that it behooves the Republicans to intentionally alienate Black voters. You saw black voters turn out over an eight-year period. Twenty percent more every two years from -- I think it was from 2016 to 2024.

President wants to get reelected. Let's be honest, guys. Politics is a business. Both parties are using gerrymandering because they want to control the House in the midterms. And gerrymandering is a terrible, terrible thing. Absolutely terrible. We shouldn't have it. We should have independent districting. We should have open primaries. We should not have the kind of a complete mess that the state representative was talking about where we're not even sure what to do with the ballots and who's going to run in November in those districts.

But I think when you escalate the kind of rhetoric to that level and compare it to a Klan meeting and accuse another party of that level of just absolutely abject, disgusting racism, I don't think it's good for anybody.

COATES: I mean, the president initiated the discussion about getting more seats, getting more Republicans.

LOPRESTI: Sure.

COATES: It has been very clear that it is his objective.

LOPRESTI: Yes.

COATES: You've heard many Republicans agreeing with that in the way in which they're going about it. Has been, for some, head-scratching. For Democrats, triggering in a way that makes them respond. But I'm curious about what the representative talked about this being indicative of not having a message, that the parties that they're engaging in redistricting in this way, they don't believe they can win fairly. Is that true of Democrats as well as Republicans? Is this Republicans who are doing this and Democrats are responding in kind?

ALFORD: It starts with Donald Trump, right? Donald Trump knows that Americans are upset about the economy, they're upset about the war in Iran, the promises that were made for this to be a sort of quick military action in and out.

[23:15:00]

All of that is proving not to be true. Donald Trump's polls are in the tank. And it's not just Democrats. It is an increasing number of Republicans and independents who are Republican-leaning, who are saying, we are not happy with this president. And so, rather than respect what the American people want, he's doing exactly what he did on January 6th, trying to go around the process, right? Go around democratic --

LOPRESTI: Natasha, gerrymandering is not --

ALFORD: Hold on a second. LOPRESTI: -- January 6. You can't compare the two.

ALFORD: I'm sorry. When you call and you say, Texas, right? You call people to the line who you know will not stand up and push back against you. And you say, we want these seats. It's the same thing as calling and saying, where are the 11,000 or so votes in Georgia, right? This is about -- this is about being a puppeteer.

LOPRESTI: I can't agree with that.

ALFORD: You don't have to agree with it. But the American people are now losing the effectiveness of their vote. The decisions are being made before the elections even happen. And it's bad.

LOPRESTI: Which is why gerrymandering --

ALFORD: I agree with you. It's bad for both. But it started with Donald Trump. And Democrats do not -- they're essentially saying, we're not going to be handcuffed, we're not going to sit back. This is an existential crisis for everyone.

COATES: Democrats would argue that they are not gerrymandering, they're undoing the racial gerrymandering of Republicans. What's your reaction?

LOPRESTI: I think it's easy to understand why that would be a policy statement or a position taken in that regard. But again, I think if you boil it down to the business of the two parties, it is to get votes, it is to win, it is very much a business, right? And gerrymandering, redistricting is how we should talk about it, is legal. It is permitted. It is part of our political system as ridiculous as it may sound.

And we have Supreme Court policy that has basically said, as you started the show, we really don't get involved in policing political gerrymandering. OK, great, thank you so much. So, now, it's left to the chaos that we see that's going on in the individual states.

I don't blame the Democrats for using redistricting to try to gain votes back ahead of the midterms any less than I blame the Republicans. It's the business of politics. It's a dirty business. I wish it was different, but it's the system that we have.

ALFORD: The dirty part is you know as a president, talking about Donald Trump, that right now, you are in trouble.

LOPRESTI: He is in trouble.

ALFORD: So, rather than -- and rather than face that reality, he is trying to engineer outcomes in his favor. All Americans are affected by that. Republican, Democrat, we're all affected by that.

COATES: Natasha and Marc, thank you both so much.

LOPRESTI: Thank you. COATES: Breaking tonight, the U.S. and Iran ceasefire hanging by a thread after both sides launched military strikes. And now, a new report may throw Trump's entire strategy into question. The ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Adam Smith, is live with me next. And later, pandemic PTSD and the rush to panic over the hantavirus. We've got one of the top doctors set to join us tonight to answer your questions and calm everyone down. Send them to me at cnn.com/asklaura.

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[23:20:00]

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COATES: Breaking tonight, the U.S. and Iran exchanged fire in the Strait of Hormuz. Each side claims they were retaliating against strikes from the opposite side. Now, according to Central Command, Iranian forces targeted these three American destroyers as they crossed the strait. And in response, U.S. airstrikes hit areas along the coast.

And the president brushed off the latest escalation by calling it a -- quote -- "love tap" and insists the ceasefire is still in place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They trifled with us today. We blew them away. They trifled. They called it a trifle. I'll let you know when there's no ceasefire. You won't have to know. If there's no ceasefire, you're not going to have to know. You're just going have to look at one big glow coming out of Iran. And they better sign their agreement fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: With me now, the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Adam Smith. Congressman, thank you for being here as we try to make sense of what's happening in real time. I mean, this military back and forth, it happened as we are waiting for Iran's response from the administration's proposal. So, what do these strikes suggest to you about where the negotiations stand now?

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, the most important thing to know is that we are nowhere close to an agreement. President Trump keeps saying that we are. He has been saying that, gosh, for weeks, if not more than a month now at this point.

But Iran's position at the moment is pay us to open up the strait. At end of the day, that's what they've been saying. And we've been sending a variety of different proposals in a bunch of different ways. It seems like we're down to now just open up the strait for nothing. They didn't always remember that the strait was open before the war started. The purpose of this war was to stop Iran's nuclear program, to stop their ballistic missile program, and to stop their support for terrorist groups with the hope that it might even lead to regime change.

So, you know, we are nowhere near where we want to be, and President Trump keeps hoping that Iran is going to change their mind. But, right now, there's not much evidence that they will. So, the real problem isn't, you know, ceasefire or no ceasefire, is that we're stuck on actually getting what we wanted out of this war.

COATES: I mean, that limbo is dangerous for a variety of reasons, as you know.

[23:24:54]

"The Washington Post" reports that a CIA analysis, it actually found Iran could endure the U.S. blockade for at least three to four months before experiencing significant financial pressure. Do you trust that assessment? And if that assessment is accurate, what would that mean for the president's strategy?

SMITH: Yes, I trust it. There is no guarantee it's an estimate. We don't know for sure exactly what Iran can endure, how they're going to react. But that get -- that zeroes in on the issue. What President Trump is hoping now is that the blockade will bring sufficient pain to Iran to force them to change that position that I just described a moment ago. That's the hope, that there's -- at the moment, not a lot of evidence that that's going to happen. Now, as I said, you never know. Maybe Iran wakes up, the economy is too bad, the people rise up. It does not seem likely.

So, I think, yes, I think that intelligence assessment is pretty accurate, which sort of shows how stuck we are. And I think the reason the president doesn't want to break the ceasefire is he learned what he should have known before he started the war, a bombing campaign alone would not force Iran to capitulate or force regime change, and yet we spent four to six weeks doing that.

And the other point to really emphasize here is while all these is going on, cataclysmic things are happening to the economy. In the Middle East, the hopelessly downed gas prices are up -- what? A buck and 30. In the U.S. and parts of Asia, they're running out. They don't have access to gas. The fertilizer problem is now going to start to impact the food supply.

This has been devastating to the global economy and continues to be so as long as the strait is closed and as long as the ceasefire isn't really a ceasefire because, occasionally, we shoot at each other and the war between Israel and Lebanon continues. So, this is a very bad situation if it just stays where it's at.

COATES: The status quo, dangerous. Congressman Adam Smith, thank you so much.

Look, we've got an update for you on a story we've covered right here on the show. It appears Senator Mark Kelly may avoid punishment for that do not follow illegal orders video that he appeared in with other members of Congress. An appeals court today heard arguments and seemed very skeptical about Hegseth's effort to try and demote Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE FLORENCE PAN, JUDGE, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT (voice-over): These are people who served their country -- many put their lives on the line. And you're saying that they have to give up their retired status in order to say something that is a textbook example -- taught at West Point and the Naval Academy -- that you can disobey illegal orders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to bring in Iraq War veteran and founder and CEO of the Independent Veterans of America, Paul Riekoff. Thank you for joining. I've appeared before Judge Pan many times. It seems very clear where she seems to be heading in her ruling. But the appeals court in general likely to rule in Senator Kelly's favor. But he thinks that the case may actually go to the Supreme Court. Do you have any concerns about the national precedent that could be set here or even the chilling effect that this process might cause?

PAUL RIECKHOFF, IRAQ WAR VETERAN, FOUNDER AND CEO OF INDEPENDENT VETERANS OF AMERICA: Absolutely. I think that has already happened. I mean, this is a direct attack on free speech for all Americans, for all veterans, and for all military retirees. He's one of two million military retirees. He's also a decorated Navy combat veteran. He's an astronaut. He's also a member of the Armed Services Committee. And right now, this attack is really about whether or not he has the right to free speech that he fought and other people have died to defend.

So, I think it's ridiculous, I think it's unacceptable, I think it's un-American, and it's an over politicization of what should be an area of compromise. We should be working together with the member of the Armed Services Committee. Hegseth and Trump should be focused on our enemies in Iran instead of members of Congress that should be on their side and working together.

COATES: What's the impact on current service members? They must be following this to some extent.

RIECKHOFF: Yes. The message is if you speak out, you could be punished. They could come for your retirement, they could come for your rank, they could identify you and name you, which has also got a chilling effect, they could intimidate you. I mean, there are all kinds of hate and attacks that are coming at Senator Kelly and his family. His wife is also a hero. I mean -- right? Everybody knows Gabby Giffords and what she has gone through. So, their entire family is in the crosshairs here.

And that's the intent. The intent is to chill their speech, to intimidate the members of the Senate, and to intimidate all Americans. So, anybody who has ever been in the military and is retired is now thinking about maybe something they posted on Facebook or a video they might have sent out. And that's the impact. They want to shut people up, not just the retirees, but also active duty military. I think that is having an impact.

COATES: On active duty in particular, who don't likely speak out publicly when they have this agreement with their, you know, superior officers, does it somehow suggest that they might be compelled or feel compelled to follow orders that they believe are illegal if this is the consequence?

RIECKHOFF: Everybody knows not to follow illegal orders. It is so basic. They teach it in basic training at West Point, at all the academies.

[23:30:01]

I mean, their video was almost redundantly obvious.

COATES: Right.

RIECKHOFF: I mean, everyone knows that already. I think it was entirely, the video, if anything, was unnecessary. So, I think everybody understands the rules. What they understand now is that Hegseth and Trump are breaking the rules. They're really dragging free speech into the discourse in a way that is chilling. And it's the stuff you see in North Korea. I mean, it's not what we see here in America.

And we have to remember, the war is unpopular. It's also unpopular among veterans and it's probably unpopular among the troops if we could poll them. This is another way of trying to keep them in line for a war that is unauthorized and increasingly unpopular by the day.

COATES: Paul Rieckhoff, thank you so much.

RIECKHOFF: You're welcome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: People -- a lot of great people are studying it. They should be fine. We hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: President Trump briefed on the hantavirus cruise ship where the outbreak has health officials working to track cases and calm the public. Michael Osterholm is one of the top infectious disease experts in the entire country, and he's next.

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[23:35:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Can I ask about the hantavirus? Have you been briefed on the virus?

TRUMP: Yes, I have.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Can you tell us what you've learned in these briefings? Should Americans --

TRUMP: Well, I think you're going to be told everything. And you already have. It's very much, we hope, under control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That was the president trying to calm people down about the hantavirus amid the panic and distrust that's quickly spreading online. I'm sure you've seen it. We've asked you to submit questions about the hantavirus and the same one kept coming up. Is this COVID 2.0? The short answer, no, at least according to health experts and the World Health Organization.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, EPIDEMIOLOGIST: This is not the start of a COVID pandemic. This is an outbreak that we see on a ship. But this is not the same situation we were in six years ago. It doesn't spread the same way like coronaviruses do. It's very different. It's that close intimate contact that we've seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: So, how do we get here? Well, it all started with an outbreak on a cruise ship where, so far, three people have died. A 146 people are still on that ship and under what's called strict precautionary measures. But a number of them have already disembarked in several countries, including right here in the United States where several people are being monitored.

Joining me now is Michael Osterholm, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. He also served as a coronavirus advisor to President Biden. Michael, thank you for being here today. I mean, first of all, give it to us straight. Should people be worried?

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR OF CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY AT UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA, CORONAVIRUS ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Well, let me separate that out. If you're on that ship right now, you surely have heightened concern. But if you're not on that ship, you shouldn't really have any concern at all about this situation. This is not going to turn into a large pandemic where spread occurs worldwide and very easily. That's just not the case.

COATES: I mean, I understand that the hantavirus normally spreads through contact with the feces, the urine or the saliva of infected rodents. But this particular strand of the virus, I guess it can spread from human to human? Is that true? And how long do you think people on the ship should be isolated before being allowed to leave and then like walk among us? OSTERHOLM: Well, actually, in fact, what can happen is you can have individuals who become infected and for reasons we are not quite clear become infectious. What that means is still very close contact. It's people who are breathing air directly in your air space. It's people you are sleeping with in the same bed or sitting next to for extended periods of time. We have had several outbreaks reported in the past with this strain of hantavirus where there was clearly close personal contact and there was transmission.

We've also had other ones. There was a young woman who came from Delaware and went to Argentina, got infected there, came back home ill, but no one recognized it was hantavirus, and she had very close contact with 51 different individuals during that time. Not of one them became infected. That's what, I think, we're going to see here.

I was actually very impressed on the ship. If there was ever a place you were going to have a lot of transmission, it's in the close holds of a ship that's in cold weather. Remember, this ship came from (INAUDIBLE). They didn't have windows open. They weren't outside playing, you might say, in that weather. And yet we have only seen only -- maybe about four percent of the people on that ship likely got infected from one of the two people that probably brought the virus on board.

COATES: So, how does that impact the decision of when to allow people to disembark from the cruise and then be able to go about their normal lives?

OSTERHOLM: Well, I think it can happen right away. And I say that because we have had good examples of this in the past, of actually following people very closely who have been exposed to viruses like this. They typically are very compliant.

So, what is happening right now in the five states where we have individuals who have returned from the initial part of the cruise, they are being contacted on a daily, sometimes twice a day basis. They are taking their temperature several times a day.

[23:40:00]

And if we can catch an individual in their earliest hours of symptoms, we can isolate them and stop all transmission. So, this is not a difficult project here to do. You can actually accomplish stopping transmission by just following people's health very closely.

COATES: You know, there are a lot of people, I mean, a portion of the public, who just -- they're not buying what the WHO or other major health institutions even say anymore. I mean, I wonder why you think that is. I mean, is this just a case of a kind of COVID PTSD?

OSTERHOLM: Yes, I think you really hit the nail on the head. You know, at this point, there are still lots of questions about the credibility of public health. And even though public health got a lot of things right, there were some things that were in fact a challenge. But what the public remembers is the horrible experience they went through. Remember, you know, last year, for example, we had 21,000 deaths in this country from COVID, but that compares to 26,000 deaths we had a week in 2021. Think about how we've come through that. So, people still have that residual fear. They're not telling me everything. I don't know. And I think we have to do, you know, much more work in helping the public trust us by saying what we know and what we don't know and why.

I think the other thing, frankly, I think the media has played a role in this. They've hyped it. You know, I saw reports this morning from various media sources. Now, let's talk about how the virus has spread to five different states and several different countries. Well, wait a minute. It didn't spread. What happened is, in some cases, people were hospitalized in different countries, taken off the ship, but it didn't spread to those countries. So, I think we also have to work with the media to be very careful to make sure that the public doesn't get the idea that this is a five-alarm fire and that we're all at risk of burning up.

COATES: Very important. Hey, I want to go to some viewer questions. Rapid fire style here. Here's one from Louise, and she asks, what are the first symptoms which would require testing?

OSTERHOLM: Actually, it's really all about flu-like symptoms. Fever, malaise, just not feeling well, tired, muscle aches. And so -- and most of these people will obviously not have any hantavirus infection at all. And we've already seen that in context of people who are on the ship, who are now -- you know, they were exposed to somebody on an airplane. They were sick. But on testing, they don't have hantavirus, they have something. So, that -- just think of the flu and think of hantavirus in the same way.

COATES: One viewer asked the question, is the virus only contagious once symptoms begin?

OSTERHOLM: Actually, that is the period of time when it really hits its height in infectiousness, is right at the very beginning. That's why we want to pick up someone with a fever and muscle aches and chills very early because that's at the point where we will basically isolate them so they don't transmit to anyone. And so, yes. And then once they are infectious and highly infectious in some cases, for those rare people that are, that tails off then within seven to 10 days.

COATES: Michael from Denver asks you this: Why is there no vaccine for hantavirus yet?

OSTERHOLM: Well, frankly, it depends where you're at in the world because there actually are some vaccines in China where we estimate that as many as 100,000 people a year may develop hantavirus infection in China just because of the nature of the animal populations there and the close proximity people have to it.

In our country, we've had about 890 cases in the last 30 years, which is about 30 cases a year. You can't afford to make a vaccine and recommend it to people for the number of cases that you have of something like hantavirus. It just wouldn't be a sellable item.

And so, our job really is to help people do not get infected, help people understand how to clean up mouse droppings. Don't sweep them up. Don't vacuum them. Use a wet cloth to actually cover them and bring them up that way. That's going to be as effective almost as a vaccine. It's just giving people good advice.

COATES: You always do. Michael Osterholm, thank you so much. Up next, he's kind of become President Trump's political fixer. Secretary Marco Rubio handling all sorts of jobs for the president in the United States and getting him some major 2028 buzz. Is it just a moment or should the vice president, J.D. Vance, be worried? Mark McKinnon and Ron Brownstein will get into it, next.

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COATES: Secretary of State Marco Rubio seems to wear many hats these days. His latest stint, defusing tensions between the White House and the pope. The two just met at the Vatican where we're told they discuss areas of disagreement such as the Iran war. Rubio gifted the pope a crystal football with the State Department seal, the joke that Pope Leo is more of a baseball guy.

Rubio's resume is a little longer than just secretary of state. He is the acting national security adviser until a couple months ago. He was the acting head of the National Archives. Last year, they also set him as acting head of USAID. This week, he filled in as White House press secretary for Karoline Leavitt. And over the weekend, a video went viral revealing that he also DJs weddings?

Now, all these has people thinking, is presidential candidate next for him? Well, just watch the video that he just posted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I think in the U.S., we're not perfect. Our history is not one of perfection, but it's still better than anybody else's history. Ours is a history of perpetual improvement. Each generation has left the next generation of Americans freer, more prosperous, safer, and that is our goal as well.

[23:49:58]

As we come upon this 250-year anniversary, I think we have a lot to learn and be proud of in our history. It is one of perpetual and continuous improvement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Hmm. Let's bring in political strategist Mark McKinnon, who advised both George W. Bush and John McCain, and CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein. Ron, I'll start with you because for a long time, Rubio was seen as a more traditional establishment Republican. What do you think explains his growing appeal among MAGA?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's kind of an interesting position he's in in the Trump administration. Clearly, he's kind of a Mr. Fix It. The administration views him as someone they can plug in to various different problems.

On the other hand, he's kind of an elbow to side on what historically would be the central responsibility of the secretary of state with the role of Witkoff and Kushner in a lot of these high-profile international negotiations.

There's a lot --- you know, he clearly has had a better, I think, 18 months of this administration than J.D. Vance has. The vice presidency, it's tough often for anyone in that job.

But, ultimately, as we saw again in Indiana, whatever is going on with the rest of the electorate, Donald Trump's grip on the Republican Party is pretty strong. If he wants to put his thumb on the scales for his vice president, I doubt that Rubio would even challenge him.

COATES: Mark, look at Rubio's style in that press briefing just this week. I mean, it was very different than we usually see in the administration. He was cordial. He was on message. He didn't berate. He didn't insult reporters. I mean, is there an appetite for this among Republicans or will they want someone with Trump's more combative persona?

MARK MCKINNON, POLITICAL STRATEGIST, FORMER ADIVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN: Well, he may bridge the gap. You know, I mean, he's kind of a laboratory candidate. He was speaker of the House when he was 35 years old. Just kind of bred to this business. And that press conference was so impressive. He was so smooth, so natural, so buttoned up, and also so authentic.

It just seemed easy for him. And nothing seems easy for J.D. Vance. You know, listen, I mean, he took the job, he got rolled out to explain the unexplainable because nobody else in the administration has been able to explain it very well, and turned out he was a really good explainer.

On the other hand, you know, in politics, if you're explaining, your losing. So, he's kind of in a very difficult position. Explaining a situation is very difficult, and yet did it pretty effortlessly. And, of course, 30 minutes later, Trump kind of turned the tables on everything he said.

But he's just ma very smooth guy who knows this business very well. You know, I think he would be a very strong nominee if he will get the nomination.

COATES: Ron, we've seen Rubio, right, as a candidate before, particularly in this position. It was a million years ago, it seems now, but he was in that position. I mean, the other big contender you talked about, of course, is the vice president, and he has been sort of making himself to be that skeptic at first of the Iran war. But last week, "The Atlantic" reported that he has been questioning the accuracy of the Pentagon's messaging. You got polling that shows that 72 percent of Republicans approve of Trump's handling of Iran. Is Vance playing his cards right?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I really want to hear Mark because he's the only one on this panel who's actually, you know, honchoed a successful Republican presidential primary campaign. But my sense is that Vance is a dependent variable in his own future. You know, a vice president is really linked to the president they are serving under.

And, as I said, as we saw in Indiana, Donald Trump's approval rating among the country overall may be at historically low levels, but his hold on the Republican Party is still pretty strong. If he wants to anoint Vance, I think it's going to be very hard to beat him. I'm not sure. I doubt Rubio would even challenge him. But Trump may enjoy and does seem to enjoy the kind of the gladiatorial combat of like trying to win his favor.

And I think if he kind of, you know, steps aside and lets this unfold naturally, there are a lot of reasons why Rubio looks a lot stronger than he did in 2016 when he wasn't a very good candidate. People may remember that debate in New Hampshire where Chris Christie just demolished him and Rubio seemed like, you know, he was kind of stuck in some matrix like glitch where he kept repeating the same language over and over again. But, you know, he has grown and he has shown a lot of political skill, as Mark said. I'm really interested in how Mark would handicap a race like that if Trump stood aside.

COATES: Handicap it for us, Mark. What do you think?

MCKINNON: Well, first of all, just on the notion about Trump, I think that, ultimately, what's going to matter to Trump is who he thinks will win. I mean, he wants to extend his legacy. And if he starts smelling defeat on anybody, I think he'll switch horses immediately as he always does. It's whatever's in his best interest. So, just because he's his vice president doesn't mean at all that he'll get the nod. I think Trump will lay back and he'll see who he thinks would be the best candidate and who's most likely to win.

[23:55:03]

By the way, nationally, yes, of course, Trump is doing well among the base, but his approval numbers are only 35. That's what Vance's are. Vance has the same. So, Ron is exactly right. He's tied completely to Trump and that could be a good thing for MAGA, but it's not a good thing in the general election.

I think Marco Rubio, that's where he comes into play because he can expand the electorate beyond MAGA because he's got that kind of traditional look. He can appeal to, you know, the Bush Republicans and Reagan Republicans and independents.

So, I think, at the end of the day, I think that Rubio would be a much better candidate. I think he's got an authenticity about him that even if you don't -- I mean, he's kind of cool, kind of buttoned up, but he doesn't pretend to be anything else. He's like a smart guy, he just does it, and he kind of does his homework. Vance, on the other hand, it's always needs to be trying too hard and just comes across as completely unauthentic, in my view.

COATES: Mark, Ron --

BROWNSTEIN: You can imagine --

COATES: Go ahead.

BROWNSTEIN: I was going say, you could imagine Marco Rubio as the nominee, a kind of a version of George H.W. Bush's 1988. Kinder, gentler, slightly differentiating from Trump, subtly. Of course, Nancy Reagan famously -- supposedly said kinder and gentler than --

MCKINNON: Yes. I mean, MAGA bona fide as having worked for Trump --

COATES: Got to go, fellas.

MCKINNON: -- but then he can expand that coalition.

COATES: I want to hear more. Not tonight. Mark, Ron, thank you both so much. And thank you all for watching. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" is next.

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