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Laura Coates Live
Trump and Xi Hold Final Meeting of High-Stakes Summit; DOJ to Drop Charges Against Indian Billionaire Accused of Fraud. Aired 11p- 12a ET
Aired May 14, 2026 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are having a hard time communicating, getting through even logistics. So, in terms of detailed readouts, that's likely things we're going to see in the next coming days to even weeks.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: That's very telling, to think about that. I mean, is it your sense, given really the scope of all that there is to discuss, is the president more focused on the business and trade deals or on pressing Xi for help on Iran?
HOLMES: The president and same with President Xi are going to want to come out of this with tangibles that they can tout to the people of the United States and China, and those are going to be in the form of those economic deals. And that's why you're going to see a lot of pressure put on China, at least from the United States point of view, in order to try and make sure that President Trump can walk out of that meeting and say here is what we are doing with China, here are the economic goals that we attained while we were here. And that really is also just so that people aren't saying, why did you go on this trip in the middle of a war in Iran when gas prices are surging? So, they want something to be able to hang their hat on to say these are the deals that we've got.
But, you know, we shouldn't make a mistake in thinking that President Trump doesn't care about ending the war in Iran even if it's from a political standpoint because the people around him are telling him the longer that this drags out, the worse it is for you, the worse it is for the Republican Party, and the worse it looks in the midterms, which are just now happening in a few months.
COATES: The president keeps praising Xi. I mean, calling him a great leader yesterday. He was a great friend, an honor to be his friend. Says they get along great. But he has been critical of him on plenty of issues in the past. So, what is your understanding, Kristen, of how the president views his relationship with Xi?
HOLMES: He really doesn't say things he doesn't mean, Laura. And the fact is that he's out here saying that he believes President Xi is a great leader, talking about their friendship, because he actually fundamentally believes that. He likes when he sees strong men at work.
He likes the idea that when he lands in China, there is this coordinated effort among children that are dancing with flags, greeting him, this pomp and circumstance. It's all done at the direction of a leader, a dictator who is out there, you know, forcing this to happen throughout the country.
And President Trump just likes the idea that the country falls in line underneath the leader. And so, when he says he's a great leader, when he says he's a strong leader, he means that.
And he said that about other strong leaders in the past as well, other leaders who have ruled with an iron fist. He has said they are great leaders.
And he mentioned as well, at one point, saying essentially that, you know, people are not going to like it, that I keep saying that President Xi is such a great leader, but I do actually believe it.
Now, he did run on this campaign and this idea that it was going to be U.S. showing China who's boss. And that's obviously not what has happened. He has put these tariffs on China only to withdraw them, put them back. It has really led to more instability than it has to actual functionality or actually trying to show a country where they stand in the pecking order.
But, instead, now, what you're seeing, at least in this moment in time, is this meeting is serving as a way to stabilize the relationship, to keep what we've seen for the last couple of months since they first met in Busan in October going into the future. So, we're not seeing any of this kind of upending the global markets, which we had seen really for the first year of President Trump's term.
COATES: Kristen, thank you so much. Please stand by. A lot more to get to tonight. I want to bring in experts who are joining me right here tonight. Jamil Jaffer, founder and executive director of the National Security Institute, Robert Daly, director of the program on China and the U.S. at the University of Maryland, and Henrietta Levin, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Glad to have all of you guys here.
Let's just talk about even the fact that the schedule has moved up. I mean, the pacing of all these conversations that are happening right now. Robert, let me go to you first because are you gleaning anything from just the tone that has been set already from the president of the United States and his praising of the president of China, let alone the way in which this all unfolded?
ROBERT DALY, DIRECTOR OF THE PROGRAM ON CHINA AND U.S., UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: We have to remember that we don't know what's actually happening in their private conversations, which is the most important part of the summit. We're seeing what's on the television screen. We're seeing the pomp and circumstance.
COATES: And why we don't know that? Just explain a little bit about --
DALY: These are private, top secret conversations in which there can be specific asks, specific negotiations. And it's not in the interest of either leader to have those broadcasts in real time. We just saw a tweet from President Trump in which he mentioned that yesterday, in a private conversation, Xi Jinping told him that the United States is in decline, and he sent out a tweet about that. That wasn't part of his commentary when he gave the toast at the Great Hall of the People.
But in terms of that tone you're talking about, President Trump often says we're friends. Please note that that can't possibly be true. They don't speak the same language at all, and they represent two countries that have irreconcilable differences.
[23:05:00]
He praises Xi as a wise leader, as a great leader. Notice that Xi never reciprocates. He just pockets it. He never says, well yes, this is -- you know, Trump is also a great leader and is my good friend. He smiles and says, it's nice to meet you. And that's about it. And so, we have very, very different leadership styles, which have been, I think, more evident than ever in this meeting.
COATES: When you talk about the lack of the common language, it is not just the literal, it's also, as you're talking about, the demonstratives that are at play.
And Henrietta, I wonder, from your perspective, I mean, just the significance of this meeting taking place at a time when there is an active -- well, they say a ceasefire on life support with Iran, there is China's relationship with Iran and about the Strait of Hormuz and the oil that's coming through. How do you evaluate even the timing of this meeting, let alone the backdrop of a war?
HENRIETTA LEVIN, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, we should remember that Chinese President Xi Jinping is entering the summit from a position of incredible confidence. Xi feels he won the 2025 trade war when Trump punched China, China punched back, and Trump backed down pretty fast.
COATES: Is he right?
LEVIN: He's closer to right than I wish he were. And we've seen China weaponize its chokepoints over rare earth materials, which are necessary for the U.S. to be able to manufacture almost anything that matters, to get Trump to back down not only from the trade war, but from really a discussion at all of concerns about the distortive non- market policies that China uses to hurt economies around the world.
So, now going into the summit, Xi feels like he has an opportunity to continue to press his advantage. So, we can think about how the war in Iran fits into this conversation from that perspective. President Trump has made clear he wants help from Xi to try and get Iran to make the concessions he's looking for. But Xi is not going to offer any kind of help for free.
COATES: What's the impact of the United States even soliciting that help?
LEVIN: I worry it projects weakness from the start. And we should remember that China does not view the situation in Iran as a shared interest with the United States. China always benefits when the United States gets bogged down in wars in the Middle East of unclear political objectives. And we've also seen the United States burn through missile stockpiles that are critical for deterring Chinese aggression in the Indo-Pacific.
China has also been investing in its energy resilience for decades, putting huge amounts of money with significant success into renewable energies and also keeping a lot of coal in their system. So, they're less vulnerable to the energy shocks created by this war than pretty much any country in Asia. So, they don't feel a lot of urgency to come in and fix a problem they feel the United States created.
COATES: We've talked about this in the past, about the leverage and the strategic disinterest that China has in having that urgency. Here, we've already heard Trump saying that China agrees the strait should reopen, but not committing any military might behind it or any real thumb on the scale. To what end then could we even pursue help in a way that doesn't look like a weakness, but also would add to the end of the war even being foreseeable?
JAMIL JAFFER, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY, LEAD ARCHITECT OF THE IRAN NUCLEAR AGREEMENT REVIEW ACT, FORMER ASSOCIATE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO GEORGE W. BUSH: I mean, Laura, that's exactly the problem. I mean, Henrietta, I think, has it exactly right, which is that we're actually giving leverage to China by saying we want their help. We're giving leverage to China by bringing a bunch of American executives. I think President Trump --
COATES: They see that as separate. They see the businesses coming as a separate issue than the military. Are they actually conflating it?
JAFFER: I think -- I think China understands that the president bringing a bunch of business executives is saying to China, we want to do business, we need your assistance, look at all we're bringing to the table, we want you to buy 200 Boeing jets, we're going to do a deal and, you know, give us a little help on Iran, maybe we'll give little help on Taiwan, right? There's a deal to be had here, and that's what President Xi is reading and that's the real challenge here.
I think -- I think Henrietta is exactly right. We are telegraphing what the president -- he is telegraphing strength and American power. And there's a lot he said about those American CEOs. But I think that President Xi, he reads that as American weakness. You need to bring all these CEOs with you here. You needed to come to do a deal with me. You need me more than I need you. I proved that with the rare earths. I'm going to prove it again here. You're going to cave. You may not keep public on Taiwan, but in private conversations, we're going to wink at each other. I'll do something a little for you on Iran. You'll do something for me on Taiwan. Off we go.
DALY: And that's one of the things that's very different about this summit. I first went to Beijing, it was in the embassy in the late 80s, and so I've seen a lot of these. And typically, American presidents would go with requests to China, asks about China changing behaviors that we found unacceptable, support for state-owned enterprises, IP theft, hacking, human rights.
[23:10:01]
And it was understood that America was going to do this. And we could be obnoxious. And we'd lecture them, and they didn't like it. They didn't always take it. But it was understood that those were the power dynamics, those were the asks. You, China, change your behavior. Now, the asks, you just said there, hey, Xi, my good friend, could you be a solid and help out with this? It's very different and it makes Trump look more like a supplicant than the leader of the free world or the world's most consequential nation. It's fundamental shift.
COATES: Does the history of having had that position and that dynamic of going in and telling them to change their behavior, does -- are we seeing a culmination of a kind of animosity that says, oh, well, now, the tables have turned and they will enjoy that?
DALY: Yes, because there has been a shift in the power dynamics. They are close to being a peer competitor. In some ways, China is ahead. And so, the old days of America simply lecturing China as if it was assumed that we were the sole superpower, that did have to change somehow.
But the shift now is a little bit too dramatic, a little bit too complete, and it plays, as you've already mentioned, plays very well for Xi Jinping, who is telling his own people and telling the people of the world that China is now ready to be an order builder, that it is your stable partner, and that America is a chaos agent and is in a weakened and declining position. That's what, I think, the Chinese are probably seeing when they watch the same footage we watch.
JAFFER: But here's what's so crazy, as Robert says, here's what's so crazy about that. Is President Trump going to see himself that way? He sees himself coming in with strength, with asserting America's might and America being great again. And so, if he really wants to do that, and that is what he's good at, right, he needs to recognize that playing to Xi in this way that's happening right now is not actually benefiting him or his own image of himself and of America.
And, you know, President Trump, I think when he figures that out, this may turn around very quickly. So, if he gets the sense that Xi is getting a little too aggressive, a little too assertive, we've seen him do it before, he has done it with Vladimir Putin, he has done it before, Donald Trump can turn on you fast. And actually, he may recognize that this is not in his own or America's interest.
COATES: Well, Henrietta, does he recognize that already by -- I mean, his Truth Social post is saying that the U.S. was in decline under Biden, right? But now that he's here, that's not the case. I mean, is he trying to get ahead of that narrative and the idea of being viewed somehow as his hand out?
LEVIN: I think he is trying to project strength but doing so in a way that is almost destined to fail in China. So -- and part of the problem here is that Donald Trump sees no distinction between allies and adversaries. He just sees transactions. And so, let's say -- talk about the CEO delegation. for example. If you bring some of the most impressive CEOs, the most impressive American companies to a trip to Japan or to Europe to visit American allies, to strengthen ties, that is a sign of strength, that shows commitment to a partnership. In China, it's basically the opposite.
COATES: Why?
LEVIN: Those CEOs show a desperate attachment to the Chinese market. Even if your number one priority in the China relationship is trade, I might disagree with that, but fine, the worst way to go about it is to signal that you need trade with China, that you need the China market.
And especially, look at which CEOs are in this delegation. It's investment capital and tech. You know, these are two areas that the U.S. in recent years, including in the first Trump administration, have viewed as national security threats when it comes to China.
We've been trying to limit exposure to these parts of the Chinese economy and to protect American technology, protect American capital, ensure it can't be used to hurt us. And now, we see Trump going back to this very outdated rhetoric. He's calling for China to open up to U.S. business, whereas we should be protecting U.S. business from China.
COATES: Is there optimism that you have from this meeting?
DALY: Any bright spots?
COATES: Yes.
DALY: Well, it takes a while for us to know what really transpired.
COATES: If ever.
DALY: If ever. We'll be hearing more and more. I don't see any strong bright spots. But there is one thing that, if it can be sustained, could be a positive, which is that since he came into office, Trump's narrative for the American people and for his own party about China has been, we can live with China. I take that as a breakthrough that we need to, as a nation, realize because we have to keep this new Cold War cold. We have to find a way not to go to war with China.
It had been said, especially among his own party and the other China hawks, that China was an existential threat. Trump is saying no. I think he goes too far in this direction, but he's saying it's not an existential threat, we can find some way to live with China. And if that were a launching pad for a strategic approach to pursuing a fairly ferocious competition with China while maintaining a commitment not to go to war, that would be a good thing.
[23:14:58]
I doubt we'll see that kind of strategic follow through. But it's useful to have him say, we can live with these people because we've been living with them since 1979, we're living with them this very second. Of course, we can live with China. It's difficult, but we can do it.
COATES: Let's live with a break for a second. Everyone, please stand by. We have much more on the summit ahead and on Xi's stern threat over Taiwan. Our Will Ripley is standing by live in Taipei with the reaction there. Plus, the president set to come home to a shaky economy, disapproval of the war, and now new questions about his family's business dealings. Congressman Adam Smith live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
COATES: President Trump and Chinese President Xi moments away from their final round of talks in Beijing. Yesterday's sit down, Xi warned the president about Taiwan, essentially saying, "Tread carefully or the U.S. and China could collide or even enter into conflict" -- unquote. So, what does Trump think about it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Did you talk about Taiwan, Mr. President?
XI JINPING, PRESIDENT OF CHINA: Thank you.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you. Thank you very much.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Mr. President, did you talk about Taiwan?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Crickets. CNN senior and international correspondent Will Ripley is live in Taipei. Will, good to see you. Tell me, how are Taiwanese officials taking President Trump's silence about Xi's warning?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I would say relief would probably be the overwhelming emotion just because having President Trump say nothing about Taiwan is better than saying something that could be damaging or that China could seize on. That could influence regional politics and the situation, the delicate situation across the Taiwan Strait for a long time to come, Laura.
The Taiwan foreign minister in the days leading up to this summit was saying he was hoping that the summit would bring no surprises. So, the headline on one of the local papers this morning, I don't know if you can see it, but it says, no surprises at Xi-Trump talks. So, that's probably about the best headline that they could have hoped for. Right below it, there was a headline saying the Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing company is expecting global chip revenue to hit one and a half trillion dollars by 2030.
Taiwan's economy stock market is exploding right now, but it's all contingent, Laura, on there being stability across the Taiwan Strait. And so, Taiwan is basically hoping that they're talked about as little as possible, that there are no major changes to the status quo coming out of this. And at least, so far, obviously, they haven't been briefed by U.S. officials yet. But, so far, it seems as if that's the case. But, obviously, these closed-door meetings, time will tell.
COATES: Absolutely. Any intimation that this might be a factor in China's help with the war in Iran?
RIPLEY: Well, look, that's a very good question. And it's a bit of a tricky time for Taiwan's government because they just days ago approved $25 billion arms purchase from the United States. President Trump has not authorized that entire purchase yet. He has approved about $11 billion of it, but there's still $14 billion outstanding that President Trump has yet to approve. So, a lot of the speculation leading up to this was that one thing Xi Jinping might ask theoretically behind closed doors would be for President Trump not to authorize that other chunk of arm sales to Taiwan.
U.S. sells Taiwan defensive weapons, as they have for almost 50 years since 1979 under the Taiwan Relations Act. So, the U.S. is bound by law to do so. But President Trump doesn't necessarily have to approve all the weapons or everything that's on that list. And if he didn't do that or if he delayed that, that would be considered a big blow to Taipei, a major concession Trump would be giving to China. And, Laura, it could even potentially send the message to other U.S. allies that their security, other bilateral deals around the world could be up for negotiation theoretically for the right price.
COATES: Will Ripley, thank you so much. I want to bring in the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee, Democratic Congressman Adam Smith. Welcome back, congressman. I mean, President Xi drawing a red line on Taiwan. No word yet from this administration on this point of contention. Are you concerned?
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Yes, I am concerned. I mean, look, to some degree, President Xi hasn't said anything that hasn't been China's position for a long time. And we have a pretty simple, straightforward policy with China, One China. We recognize that Taiwan and China are one country. But second and crucially, no reunification by force, and we reserve the right to help Taiwan defend themselves by -- help Taiwan be a deterrence to this by helping provide them with weapons. That has long been the policy.
I was in China last September, I had these conversations with senior Chinese officials. They are concerned that Taiwan will push for independence. I don't see any evidence that Taiwan is actually doing that. So, if we can maintain the status quo, that's the best for keeping peace and stability in the region and allowing Taiwan to continue to be Taiwan.
COATES: Well, the administration says that China is working -- will work behind the scenes to help end the war in Iran, including a commitment by President Xi to not supply Iran with weapons. Listen, congressman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He said he's not going to give military equipment. That's a big statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: I think they're going to do what they can. And here, China has a much bigger interest in reopening the strait than the U.S. does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Do you take the administration at their word? Are you confident that China will not help arm Iran?
[23:25:00]
SMITH: Yes. Several important points here to separate. One, no, I do not take the administration at its word. Trump has said very little truthful about what's going on with the war in Iran. A number of levels. He keeps claiming that Iran is ready for a deal, and that's absolutely not the case. So, no, I do not take Trump at his word about what China said.
Second, don't take China at their word. I don't trust that China is going to tell President Trump the truth about that. Third, it's really not true that China is the one that's in a weaker position because the strait is shut down. It is true that they are more dependent on oil coming out of the Middle East, but they also have other options. And they're not the ones who are bogged down in the war and the conflict with Iran. So, counting on China to help us because they are hurting more because of this war just isn't true. It's going to be a lot more complicated than that.
The best thing that we can hope for is to try to stop China from giving any direct material support to Iran. Thus far, it does not appear that they have done that, but they are certainly flirting with the idea. And there is a risk because understand the big picture here. China wants us to be weaker. Iran is helping make us weaker. They're not that anxious to stop that situation. It's on us to figure out a diplomatic way out of the war that Trump dragged us into in what was a colossal blunder.
COATES: Congressman, I just want to revisit one issue in terms of, obviously, the huge elephant in the room being Taiwan as a potential either deal breaker or maker or point of leverage. One of the things you said was, you described our policy, that we recognize One China as Taiwan being a part of China. There is obviously some pushback to that notion of what our policy really is. We recognize (INAUDIBLE). Obviously, they are an independent island in many ways. Can you just describe a little bit why -- not independent, but can you describe a little bit about what you think the policy holds up might be in terms of how Trump is relaying or might be presenting that to the president of China? SMITH: I think that the hold up, and I know this because I've spoken with the Chinese ambassador on a number of occasions, people in China, China's claim is that Taiwan is pushing towards independence. They don't trust the current president of Taiwan and his party. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's accurate. I do think China is legitimately worried about that. They want to maintain the status quo. But then there's also the risk that President Xi decides that it's his legacy to bring Taiwan officially into the fold and to force that issue.
What we have to do diplomatically -- and, by the way, our ambassador, David Perdue, I met with him several -- over several days in China. He's doing a great job. He understands this. Our role is to keep the status quo. Don't generate a conflict between China and Taiwan. And again, the policy is simple. One China, two systems, no forced reunification. Taiwan does have a right to be armed to defend themselves. No independence. So, if we could keep that message, that can calm down the Taiwan issue.
But we haven't even talked about the economic issues, which is what we really hope Trump to negotiate. And it's not just a matter of China buying some Boeing airplanes. That's fine. It's the tariffs. It's what China is doing to block our ability to get other access to rare earth minerals from other countries in our own. Those trade issues, that's really what I hope they're having some conversations about in these private discussions because that economic relationship is crucial and it is in a very contentious place right now.
COATES: I want to put a pin in that for a moment and ask you about the concerns that Democrats have raised over the Trump family business deals. I mean, the Trumps have reported owning dozens of trademarks in China. A company linked to Eric Trump reportedly trying to reach a deal with a Chinese chipmaker for a data center during this trip. Republicans on the Hill seem to be brushing this off. Will there be any accountability or at least questions raised?
SMITH: We will push for that, the Democratic side. But from the Republican majority, no. Look, they've let Trump get away with an unprecedented level of corruption. I mean, starting with him raffling off access to the White House if people will buy his Bitcoin to all kinds of family deals with countries all around the world. That are clear conflicts of interest with President Trump looking after the interests of the United States of America as he's supposed to do as president.
Yes, there is an unprecedented level of corruption in the Trump administration. We're going to push for it as Democrats to try to at least get those questions answered and to have some accountability. Republicans in Congress seem perfectly willing to just turn a blind eye to absolutely everything that Trump is doing. We're going to keep pressing them to actually look out for the American people instead of just covering for Trump.
COATES: Congresswoman Adam Smith, thank you so much.
SMITH: Thank you, Laura. COATES: I want to quickly go back to my panel for just one second. Robert Daly, I know you took issue and I know you were reacting to the congressman's description of our policy towards Taiwan.
[23:30:00]
Explain what your reaction is about.
DALY: With all respect to the congressman, our Taiwan policy is complicated. It is angels dancing on the head of the pin. If you don't follow it full time, it's hard to understand. But he said that our policy is that China and Taiwan are part of the same country. That is not it. Our policy has been that we recognize that the people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait say that there is only one China. We recognize that they say that. So, that's not at all saying that they're one country.
He also said that our policy was one country, two systems. No, that's a Chinese slogan that they offered to Hong Kong, we see how well that went there, that they also offered to Taiwan saying you can join us and be part of the People's Republic of China legally, and we'll allow you to retain a high degree of autonomy. So, that's not our policy. That's Beijing. That's Communist Party's offer, which failed utterly in Hong Kong. And when it did, it also died as a slogan in Taiwan. But to be fair to the congressman, this stuff is really complicated.
COATES: Indeed. And much more on the complicated summit ahead. But first, fast-moving developments out of Trump's DOJ. Reports of a fraud case about to be dropped just as the DOJ considers settling Trump's case against the IRS. A lot to get to, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Fraud isn't just about saving money. It's not just about protecting taxpayers. It's about protecting you. So, for once, for the first time in a very long time, you've got an administration in Washington, D.C. that is fighting for you, fighting to protect your tax dollars, and fighting to put the fraudsters in prison, which is where they belong.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, that was Vice President Vance on the latest stop of his fraud fighting tour of the country. But just as he calls for fraudsters to be locked up, there's a striking split screen playing out over at the DOJ where today, "The New York Times" reports the administration is planning to drop fraud charges against an Indian billionaire, Gautam Adani. He was indicted by the Biden DOJ in 2024 in an alleged scheme to pay $250 million in bribes to Indian government officials to secure lucrative contracts, all while defrauding investors in the process.
Well, according to the Times, Adani hired one of the president's personal lawyers and made a highly unusual offer. If the charges against him go away, he might invest $10 billion in the U.S. economy and create 15,000 jobs. Now, he is still expected to face financial penalties if the charges are dismissed.
Joining me now, former deputy attorney -- assistant attorney general, Harry Litman. He is also the podcast host of "Talking Feds." Harry, good to see you. Look, you and I know --
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, PODCAST HOST: Likewise.
COATES: -- it's normal for defense counsel to try to get a good plea, a global plea to get rid of all the cases. But offering an economic settlement to drop charges of this magnitude, that's so uncommon as to be called rare.
LITMAN: Rare is one nice way to put it. Improper is another. Look, this reminds us a little of what happened with Mayor Adams way back a year ago. They were ordering people to drop righteous charges because he was going to play ball with the administration with immigration policy. That's got nothing to do with doing justice without fear or favor. Same thing, you read the indictment against Adani. It is absolutely wrenching, the accusations anyway that they then have.
And you're absolutely right, Bob Giuffra, the president's lawyer, came in. And during a presentation, part of what he said is, hey, if you drop the charges and we package the SEC and everything together -- and you know money, Laura, doesn't matter to this guy, staying out of jail is what does -- maybe we could pour $10 billion into the U.S. economy. That might all be well and good, but it's got nothing to do with the facts and the law, which is what should be the basis of bringing charges and dropping charges.
COATES: Obviously, Mayor Adams disputes the allegations that he was going to sort of pay for play. But I hear your larger point about the analogies people might raise when you're talking about confidence in even a prosecutor's discretion to bring a charge or keep one. Sources tell the CNN that the Justice Department is considering settling Trump's $10 billion lawsuit against the IRS. Now, for context, of course, Harry, Trump has alleged the government failed to protect his tax returns from being leaked to news organizations when he was president the first time. So, what type of ethical questions is this raised for you?
LITMAN: Laura, I think this one is really big, I've written a lot about it in my Substack, because, essentially, Trump and Blanche and the DOJ and the IRS are on the same side. That's how it is by regulation and it's also how it is by practice. That is scummy. But more than that, it's unconstitutional. It's not a real case. And I think what really matters here is the judge has said, give me by next week your brief about why this is kosher and has also appointed some very powerful lawyers for the other side that we know nobody will represent for DOJ.
[23:39:56]
And I think the move to settle this so quickly before they've even done anything in the case, even entered an appearance, has everything to do with trying to get out of the rock and hard place that the judges put them in where they either have to say, yes, we're on the same side but that's not kosher, or we're not on the same side but nobody will believe them.
COATES: Well, somebody who has been on the side of the president of the United States and is now the deputy attorney general turned acting attorney general is Todd Blanche.
LITMAN: Right.
COATES: And CNN has exclusive new reporting that before he became even the A.G. last year or the deputy A.G. last year, the top ethics official at DOJ told him he's going to have to recuse himself from cases involving the president in his personal capacity. We know he was his attorney. And one official tells CNN that Blanche even signed this pledge. He was Trump's personal lawyer. Should he have ever been involved in the kinds of cases that involve the president?
LITMAN: Clearly not. And, by the way, great reporting by CNN that you fared out for the first time I'm meeting a year ago. He did sign it. And it's really clear, Laura. He was his personal lawyer. He can't be involved in cases that Trump has a stake in. So, that means many things. So, the reprisal prosecutions.
The first thing he does with the interview with Ghislaine Maxwell, appointing Joseph diGenova to try to get at this so-called grand conspiracy for the criminal charges against him. All of it is improper.
And remember what happened to Joe Tirrell, who in previous DOJ, as you know, his word would have been bond. He says that you do it. They fired him. So, you know, he has won a lawsuit against them now. But basically, they got this advice. It's firm advice. He was just sacked as a result, and there's nobody there playing that role. So, all indications are this firm advice is being honored in the breach and it's one more thing in which DOJ is saying, yes, we don't have to. You know, come get us.
COATES: Yes, because who's going to prosecute? He's now the acting A.G.
LITMAN: Exactly.
COATES: Harry Litman, thank you so much. Next, the president's final sit down with Xi Jinping is underway. So, what might the potential outcomes be? Our experts are going to game it out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:45:00} (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: At this very moment, President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are sitting down for tea and lunch at Zhongnanhai Garden. And these are the first images we are seeing from that meeting. This compound is described as the equivalent of the White House. And the two men were seen admiring the gardens inside the compound. And reporters inside say it is so quiet inside they could hear birds chirping and even a clock chiming. The men are expected to continue the discussions on trade, Taiwan, and Iran. And once the meeting ends, Trump will travel back to Washington, D.C.
I want to bring back my expert panel, Jamil Jaffer, Robert Daly, and Henrietta Levin. This is perhaps promising if you were to be a body language reader and think, well, everyone is smiling. However, it's interesting, in particular, we were discussing the way that President Xi views foreign policy as very impersonal. Explain why.
LEVIN: President Xi sees himself as the embodiment of the People's Republic of China and the Communist Party. He's not in this to make friends. So, when Donald Trump talks about his friendship with Xi, how they get along so well, how they can solve problems together because they trust each other, that is not how Xi Jinping views the world. He sees Donald Trump as an instrument to achieve his objectives of weakening the United States.
And so, the optics will be very good for this summit. We've seen the warm moments between the two leaders. All of that is manufactured by China because they know it's what Trump wants, and they want to generate goodwill with the president so they can parlay that into, they hope, China hopes, strategic concessions on Taiwan, on technology, on the big issues that will shape the future of U.S.-China competition.
COATES: And yet Trump is well versed in negotiation, certainly he believes to be, and thinking about his anticipation of perhaps that transactional -- he is often by himself, accused of being purely transactional and in many ways how you described him, the president of China. That has been assigned to Trump in some respects and to how he sees himself. Tell me, what do think Trump believes the optics and the outcome will be?
JAFFER: I think President Trump wants to see deals. And he's thrilled that Boeing is going to sell 200 jets to China. He's thrilled that he brought in the American executives, even though it wasn't a planned part of the meeting and that they were there to sort of be in the room with President Xi. He sees an opportunity here to tone down the economic rhetoric, to find a path forward, to show that his tariff policy on China worked, that he got some concessions, that he got the market opened up.
It's not that he thinks China will actually open them in a significant way. He wants to see jobs back.
[23:50:00] He literally said, he said, these CEOs are here to bring more jobs back to America. He is messaging to the American public that his visit to China is going to generate jobs here, it's going to solve the economic problems that the current global oil crises are causing, that China will not engage with Iran on weapons and the like.
But, of course, none of that is really where China is at. China sees one theory to case. The U.S. needs us economically, the U.S. needs to solve its problem in Iran, the U.S. is willing to walk back where it is on Taiwan, the U.S. is willing to walk back it's aggressive policy on tariffs. They're going to sell us stuff, whether it's Boeing jets or Nvidia chips. They're going to get us back in the system. We love that. That's a win for us.
COATES: Well, there is truce on the trade war between the U.S. and China. But tonight, the trade representative, Jamieson Greer, actually told Bloomberg that the Chinese understand there will be a certain level of tariffs that are placed on Chinese products. But there is a lack of clarity on that. And I wonder how the business execs, the CEOs of these major companies would view that lack of clarity.
JAFFER: Well, look, I think the thing with -- if you're going to get President Xi to actually do a real deal you want, to do a real deal with Iran or Russia, you have to show strength. You have to threaten, you have to be bold, you have to be aggressive.
This whole idea -- you know, Congressman Smith was talking about how we need to keep the Taiwan thing on an even keel. You know, we're just going to sort of let it play out. That policy for America has been an utter failure. That is not a policy. It's not a winning policy for United States. We need to double down and say, look, you're going to threaten Taiwan? We're not going to stand for it.
Now, the reality is, President Xi knows that's not true. How does he know? We don't have the forces forward to actually fight a force on force war with China if it came to that. If we wanted to really demonstrate real deterrence, we put forces forward now and say, you want to come after Taiwan? I dare you. That is why President Xi never take that to President Biden either. It was never really serious. He knows that. He knows Donald Trump isn't serious about it. He knows Joe Biden wasn't serious about it.
This is the problem with American policy on Taiwan. It's the problem with American policy on trade. Unless we get serious, our adversaries will not take us seriously. You're seeing it with negotiations with Iran. You saw it with Russia and Ukraine. You're seeing it right now with President Xi.
DALY: I think all of this emphasis on deals is quite misguided. First, it is not new. Every president who is going to China in the past 20 years has settled for the same thing, purchases and promises, not all of which are going to come through. So, there's nothing new in that.
Also, America and China are not at daggers drawn. We have not become rivals because of soybeans. It has nothing to do with soybeans, and soybeans don't solve it. So, that's something to be aware of as they go forward.
And I think that Xi Jinping can win even if he doesn't extract concessions from Donald Trump. I think that's China's goal, really, because there's nothing that they want. Xi has no urgent ask. He likes the trajectories in the relationship right now. He wants Donald Trump to leave satisfied with the pomp and with the purchases. He wants him to leave satisfied such that Trump continues to pay insufficient strategic attention to China. That, I think, is a win for Xi even without any concessions. Trump goes away happy. China comes out ahead.
COATES: We just got a two-minute warning as well, so we might hear some more information about what has transpired today. What would a win look like for the United States here?
LEVIN: Well, Donald Trump is looking for purchases of soybeans, beef, planes. We've already seen some of those come in a little bit under expectations. We're hearing a number. Something like 200 Boeing planes might be on offer. That is a lot less than what the company, what the president was hoping for. So, even on these very modest commercial tactical objectives the president has put forward, we're not seeing China come through all the way.
And I should also emphasize, building on that last point, China may promise big numbers on soybean purchases, for example, but they already promised big numbers back when Trump and Xi met in South Korea in the fall, and we've seen almost nothing as a result. And even if China fulfilled all of those commitments, the purchases of U.S. soybeans would be less than they were at the beginning of 2025 before the trade war started. So, in so many ways, the U.S. is trying to negotiate back to the status quo ante before the trade war started and not even quite getting there.
JAFFER: And yet you see it with Iran, too. It's the exact same situation. We're negotiating back to Iran only having a certain amount of 3.67 enriched uranium, right? And it's crazy because the president is actually -- he's maximizing his advantage. He can actually press forward. He can get gains. We saw him do it in the first administration. He was on the verge of a potential effort to get good gains with Iran as well, but putting pressure on them.
The problem is when he starts to get nervous, it's looking bad for the American economy, he starts to back off. The Iranians see that as weakness. The Russians saw his weakness in Ukraine. The Chinese see his weakness here.
COATES: Well, Trump and Xi spoke before their meeting began.
[23:54:59]
This is a video from just a few moments ago. I want to listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JINPING (through translator): Today, I'm hosting the president and his officials in the Zhongnanhai compound for tea. This is the place where party and the central government leaders of China work and live, including myself. After the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949, the leadership have moved to this compound, including the Chinese leaders Mao Zedong, Zhou Enlai, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao, and so on.
I've chosen this place especialy to reciprocate the hospitality extended to me in 2017 at Mar-a-Lago.
Well, this place used to be part of the Imperial Garden. There is a lot of history around this compound. On our way in, we stayed to look at some of the old trees. One of them is 490 years old. In other places within this compound, there are trees that have lived to be over a thousand years old. The president was interested to learn all about that, including the Chinese roses, which we looked at, and I agreed to send the seeds for these roses to the president as a gift.
TRUMP: I love that. That's great. Thank you. I want to thank you very much. This has been an incredible visit. I think a lot of -- a lot of good has come of it. We've made some fantastic trade deals, great for both countries.
He's a man I respect greatly. We've become really friends. We've known each other now 11 years, almost 12 years. It's a long time. And we've settled a lot of different problems that other people wouldn't have been able to settle.
And the relationship is a very strong one. We've really done some wonderful things, I believe. We did discuss Iran. We feel very similar to Iran. We want that to end. We don't want them to have a nuclear weapon. We want the strait open. We're closing it now. They closed it, and we closed it on top of it. But we want the strait open. And we want them to get it ended because it's a crazy thing. They're a little bit crazy, and it's no good. Can't have it. They cannot have a nuclear weapon. But we discussed a lot of other things also, and I think we're very much on agreement. We're to have some further discussions now with the group.
But I just want to thank President Xi and all of his representatives. We've become friendly with all of them. They're great people. And it's an honor to be here. We'll be back. And I believe in September 24th or thereabouts, President Xi is going to be coming to the United States. And we will be reciprocal, like reciprocal trade. The visit will be reciprocal. We're going to lay it on the line, and we're going to have -- you're going to walk away hopefully very impressed, like I'm very impressed with China. And I just want to end by saying thank you very much. It has been really a great couple of days. Thank you very much.
