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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Another U.S. Soldier Killed in Iraq; Alleged Mastermind of Riyadh Bombings in Custody

Aired June 26, 2003 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Turning now to a war that is still going on in Iraq, Iraqi gunmen today killed a member of the Special Operations forces team, another eight Special Forces troops were wounded. Two other soldiers are missing tonight and authorities say they may have been abducted.

We will turn now to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre who joins us live -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, a U.S. military official tonight said to me that this no doubt was an organized attack and represents what he called an increasing level of organization and sophistication even though there's no evidence at this point the anti-American forces knew that they were targeting the very same task force that is hunting for Saddam Hussein and other senior regime leaders.

According to Pentagon sources, a U.S. Army Ranger, assigned to that Task Force 20, was killed when the vehicle that he was traveling in with other soldiers passed by a truck laden with explosives, which was apparently then detonated causing the deaths and injuries.

This comes on top of a death of a U.S. Special Operations force in Afghanistan as well last night in an operation aimed at rooting out remnants there of the Taliban and al Qaeda. A U.S. Navy SEAL was shot in the face according to sources and died of his wounds. Two other Special Operations forces died there. No indication of any connection between those two events.

But back to Iraq, those two missing soldiers last seen at a checkpoint interacting with some local Iraqis in another vehicle and then they haven't been heard of since. A massive search is underway. Some local citizens pointed the way toward a nearby building where some blood and civilian clothes were found, but again no idea if that was connected to the disappearance of these two Army soldiers.

The investigation is still underway. Were they abducted? Pentagon officials say it's one possibility but they have no evidence at this point to say one way or the other -- Lou.

DOBBS: The number of deaths, the tragic loss of members of the U.S. it's seemingly daily now in Iraq. Has the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld given up what many thought was a rather facile remark talking about the people who were carrying out this violence against U.S. troops as dead-enders, has that kind of talk ended?

MCINTYRE: No, he still refers to them as dead-enders and he still says that it's going to take some time to root them out. But privately, officials who have been in on some of the briefings on the security situation in Iraq concede that they are seeing, as I said, an increasing level of organization what one person called a classic urban guerrilla force insurgency taking initiative against the U.S. forces looking for vulnerabilities and probing them.

And, he noted that under Saddam Hussein's regime the secret police would have the authority to sort of crush this kind of opposition but the U.S. doesn't have that kind of coercive apparatus, so the U.S. has had a bit of a disadvantage, so it's going to take some time and we're told we can expect to see a continuation of these attacks against U.S. forces for some time -- Lou.

DOBBS: Without a planned response and a way for our military to protect themselves?

MCINTYRE: Well, there is a plan and that is the plan is to be very aggressive not to sit back and wait for the attacks but to take the fight to the enemy, to continue to use local informants to try to track them down and to be very, very aggressive in trying to go after these forces before they go after the U.S. That's the plan.

DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre our Senior Pentagon Correspondent.

Still ahead here tonight in our special report tonight, "Border Patrol," illegal aliens or are they guest workers? Casey Wian will report on a controversial idea to say the least to deal with illegal aliens.

Also ahead tonight, help is on the way for some 40 million Americans after a hard fought battle over prescription drugs.

And, a member of the Republican leadership in the Senate, Majority Whip Senator Mitch McConnell joins us. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight, U.S. and Saudi officials say the mastermind of the suicide bombings in Riyadh last month is now in Saudi custody. Those bombings killed 35 people, nine Americans among the dead.

National Security Correspondent David Ensor joins me now -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, as you say U.S. and Saudi officials are calling this man the ringleader, one U.S. official calling this a very significant catch.

We have a picture we believe of the man. He is Ali Abd al-Rahman al-Faqasi al-Ghamdi otherwise known as Abu Bakr Azdi. He is said to have been involved in the planning and the execution of the bombings May 12th in Riyadh that led, as you said, to the deaths of 35 people. Of course nine of those were the bombers themselves, 26 innocent victims, nine of them Americans.

He is also said to be linked to a number of senior al Qaeda figures, possibly to Saif al-Adel and Abu Mohammed al-Masri. There are reports that he may have been in Tora Bora in 2001 and may at that time have met Osama bin Laden.

In any case, as I say, U.S. and Saudi officials saying this is a major catch. He is said by the Saudis to have turned himself in at a checkpoint, possibly near the city of Medina and they are saying that no deals were made that he will be tried under Islamic law -- Lou.

DOBBS: No deals made. What motivated him to turn himself in?

ENSOR: Well, not clear at this point but certainly the Saudis have been cracking down hard on anybody they suspect of having any involvement with the Riyadh bombings or any association with those who did. There are officials who are saying he was lonely. The rest of the gang had already been rounded up.

DOBBS: Will U.S. authorities have the opportunity to interrogate him?

ENSOR: They are very interested in doing that, Lou, and of course as you know in the past that has not always been easy with the Saudis. At the time of the Khobar Towers bombing some years ago the U.S. very badly wanted to interrogate people involved in that and they were executed without giving the U.S. a chance.

But the cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia has been greatly improving since 9/11 and, in fact, since the Riyadh bombings officials are saying it's really been excellent, so they are hoping that they will have access to this man -- Lou.

DOBBS: David, yesterday you reported first that the CIA had discovered equipment that was turned over to them that may prove that Iran had a nuclear weapons program possibility at least. What else have you learned about the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

ENSOR: Well, we had an exclusive interview with David Kay who is the CIA's top man now in Iraq, a former U.N. arms inspector himself. We talked to him over the teleconferencing, secure teleconferencing facility at the CIA and one of the things that he said to us that is intriguing and needs watching is he said that he believes we may have some surprises coming quite soon.

He believes there is some rapid progress underway in the area of finding evidence of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs. Now, he didn't give any details about that but CIA officials are saying that part of the reason for the optimism is there is a sense that more of the Iraqi scientists are now willing to talk than before -- Lou.

DOBBS: And, we should point out that David Kay, a former U.N. weapons inspector has also been a leading skeptic, if you will, on the issue of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the months leading up to the war against Saddam Hussein and during the war, isn't that correct?

ENSOR: You know I really do not know the answer to that. That may be the case. I'm not sure.

DOBBS: David, how's this story playing in Washington, particularly with the intelligence and defense community?

ENSOR: Well, as you know, Lou, CNN was aware that this particular Iraqi scientist had turned over these gas centrifuge pieces of equipment and masses of documents.

Last week, we were asked to hold the story by the CIA which said there were national security issues and lives were at stake so we only reported it yesterday when they said it would be all right to do that. Those issues were resolved.

So, interestingly, although the agency and people in the intelligence community asked us to hold the story back, I'm getting the impression today that they and others around the government are quite pleased with the story.

They have a -- they are hoping that this story about an Iraqi scientist who has now been moved out of the country and is in safe hands will be an example to other Iraqi scientists and may cause more of them to come forward and tell what they know -- Lou.

DOBBS: David, thank you very much, David Ensor from Washington, our National Security Correspondent.

Turning now to the White House, today the White House said the discovery of the equipment from Iraq's nuclear program reinforces the president's case that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop weapons of mass destruction.

Our Senior White House Correspondent John King joins us now -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, already this discovery has become, if you will, the new Exhibit A in the ongoing political debate over where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The White House saying today that this discovery buried in a backyard of an Iraqi scientist is proof of how easy it is to hide evidence of a program of weapons of mass destruction, in this case of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.

White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer today says this new evidence completely refutes the assertions by Saddam Hussein that he had put his nuclear ambitions aside and had absolutely no plans to reconstitute a nuclear program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Dr. Obeidi told us that these items, the blueprints and the key centrifuge pieces represented a template for what would be needed to rebuild a centrifuge uranium enrichment program. He also claimed that this concealment was part of a secret high level plan to reconstitute the nuclear weapons program once sanctions had ended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, White House officials acknowledge this evidence goes back about a dozen years when this scientist said he was told to hide it, but the White House and other government agencies making the case that this is proof to them of how easy it is to hide the evidence.

It is proof to them that Saddam Hussein was going to great lengths to hide evidence and they believe, Lou, not only of a nuclear program but of a chemical and biological program as well.

They say in the weeks ahead, as David just noted, they hope more scientists will come forward and they say in the weeks ahead that they are optimistic and quite confident there will be more discoveries like this, more evidence to put the critics on notice that indeed there were weapons -- Lou.

DOBBS: It is interesting as you say. They're putting the critics on notice as far as the White House and the administration, the Pentagon, have all -- and the State Department have all been on the defensive here. This is really a case of raising expectations again on the part of David Kay, as David Ensor reported and the White House.

KING: Well, that is one of the worries. They are, of course, quite happy to have some evidence not only of a weapons program but of the way it was hidden, under a rosebush, buried in the ground in a garden. They say weapons inspectors never would have found it, so that if the inspectors had gone on for weeks and months more before the war, they never would have found it.

So, the White House is citing that it's proof. It is not so difficult to hide these things but, you're right, now that they have found evidence of a nuclear program buried 12 years ago, they say they're confident they'll find more. But you can be sure, Lou, on Capitol Hill and elsewhere the critics will say where is it pretty quickly? They won't wait very long.

DOBBS: I think you're exactly right, John. John King, Senior White House Correspondent, thank you.

KING: Thank you.

DOBBS: Violence today continued in the Middle East even as Israel and the Palestinians appeared to be moving toward a truce. A Palestinian gunman killed an Israeli in the West Bank. An Israeli guard then killed the gunman.

The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a group closely associated with Yasser Arafat, claimed responsibility for the terrorism. Later, Israeli security forces killed two Palestinians in the same areas. Israeli defense forces said they were carrying bags that contained explosives.

Yasser Arafat today said an Israeli-Palestinian cease-fire will be announced soon. It is simply the latest in a series of public comments by the Palestinian leader over the past three days. Arafat has hardly been seen in previous weeks. It is clear now that Yasser Arafat has reemerged as a key player in the truce negotiations -- Kitty Pilgrim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the Middle East, the cameras are rolling and the photo op is Arafat? Yasser Arafat today talking about a cease-fire agreement telling reporters a formal announcement was coming that raising some questions over just who is in charge here.

After all, the Bush administration has done everything it can to sideline Arafat, preferring instead to negotiate with Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas. Today, the White House needing to make that clear again.

FLEISCHER: We will continue to deal with Prime Minister Abbas because he can deliver on peace but the United States obviously doesn't control everything that everybody in the region can say.

PILGRIM: Two weeks ago, President Bush met with Mr. Abbas and Israel's Ariel Sharon in Aqaba to initiate a road map for Middle East peace but many say just because Arafat isn't at the meeting doesn't mean he isn't in the loop.

RICHARD MURPHY, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: He will not be sidelined and the fact is that after every significant conversation between Mahmoud Abbas and foreign representatives, be they American, European, whomever, he has gone to Arafat and briefed him on what was said.

PILGRIM: Arafat is still being courted by some world figures today meeting with the Irish foreign minister.

MARK PERRY, AUTHOR "FIRE IN ZION": There's been a very purposeful attempt on the part of the Palestinian leadership to thrust him out once more, to show the world once more that they're not going to agree with American dictates.

PILGRIM: Arafat is legend for his survivability. This week the Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Yaalon openly talked about past discussions to try to assassinate Arafat. The discussions went nowhere but Arafat was under siege in his compound three times last year. One of the sieges lasted 34 days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Every time Arafat comes under siege his standing rises in the polls with the Palestinian people and many say it is absolutely pointless to try to eliminate him and now, it seems, impossible to ignore him also -- Lou. DOBBS: An intriguing development. Much, I'm sure, to the dislike of both Ariel Sharon and George Bush.

Kitty, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim.

Turning now to our poll question of the evening. Do you believe evidence of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program will be found? Yes or no. Please vote on our web site CNN.com/lou -- we'll have the results later in the show.

These are the final results of last night's poll. The question, would you support stationing military troops along U.S. borders to stop the flow of illegal immigrants? 59 percent of you voted definitely, both borders. 24 percent said, definitely, the Mexican border. 6 percent said, in some cases. 11 percent said, never.

Now, taking a quick look at some of your thoughts. Our e-mail overwhelming on our special report on border patrol.

Alan Hale of Brighton, Colorado wrote to say, "as long as we continue to furnish with American business with cheap subsidized labor, in the form illegal aliens, our borders will never be secure."

Michael Terry of Toledo, Ohio, "I am a refuge from California myself, where over crowding, unemployment, and culture conflict made life there impossible. And there is no greater reason for these problems than the unrestricted, amazingly massive immigration that is pouring into that state and into the rest of the country."

Barry Ames of Lake Forest, California said, "great border story. Traversing the world starting wars without first protecting our borders is like swatting at beehives with ones pants around his ankles. When will our leaders figure this out?"

On President Bush's tax cut, Lorraine Robertson of Glendale, Arizona, wrote to say, "I had a professor of economics who explained this trickle down theory in this way, you stop the cows to feed the birds. Guess what the birds eat?"

And we thought one of the most interesting comments on affirmative action which we featured in week's face-off segment came from Dan Pesky of New Mexico. He had a simple question, "can affirmative action be implemented without racial profiling?"

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.

Coming up next, the latest in our series of special reports, border patrol. Tonight Casey Wian reports on the growing controversy over illegal aliens or are they guest workers?

Also ahead, "Grange on Point." Our resident advocate for military personnel and veterans on a military that is now short changed and overworked.

And inside the trouble with the NBA, will a would-be star save professional basketball. Peter Viles will have the story. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Stocks today closed near session highs. Hopes that the interest rate cut will spur the economy -- that's a little reversal of mood from yesterday -- the Dow up 67.5 points, the Nasdaq up 31.5, the S&P 500 up 10.5. A lot of halves in there. Susan Lisovicz is here and she has the market for us. Quite a reversal from yesterday.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite a reversal, nice reversal. But there are some bearish signs as well, Lou. You know, traders continue to debate the merits of yesterday's fed cut, but in the meantime, fresh economic and corporate news allowed the markets to stabilize after yesterday's losses.

The weekly jobless number reached its lowest level since March. That helped investors shrug off a much weaker revision on economic growth in the first quarter.

Airlines got a lift from the parent company of American Airlines. AMR surging 20 percent on word that it had positive cash flow in May and June.

Guidant rallying after telling investors it will meet or exceed previous forecasts for the second quarter.

A terrific session for tech stocks. Nextel moving 7 percent higher, and upbeat earnings guidance for the year. A profit warning set back Playtex by 12 1/2 percent.

But the biggest percentage loser at the big board and the most actively traded issue was the Irish pharmaceutical company Elan. The stock plummeted 29 percent after the company said it missed a deadline for filing its 2002 annual report with the S.E.C.

GM losing ground after selling more than $6 billion in debt as part of a massive debt offering. But overall, Lou, a broad based rally today. But it came on light volume which automatically makes it suspect.

DOBBS: And we're probably going to have a lot of that light volume over the course of this summer.

LISOVICZ: Dog days of summer.

DOBBS: Our corporate American criminal scoreboard, 73 executives still charged with crimes, 16 still from Enron. Sam Waksal still going to jail. 570 days from when it all started with Enron's bankruptcy.

Tonight in our series of special reports, this week focusing on border patrol. 700,000 illegal aliens come into this country every year. That's right, 700,000. Now some lawmakers say we can redefine the battle. They want to, instead of calling them illegal aliens, actually make them guest workers. Casey Wian has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For hundreds of thousand of illegal immigrants each year, the lure of a job picking grapes, washing dishes, mowing lawns or tending children is so great, they're willing to risk their life savings, sometimes their very lives crossing the U.S. border.

And for nearly as many American farmers, restaurant owners and families, that cheap labor is too tempting to pass up. No matter how hard the border control cracks down on illegal immigration, labor supply and demand find ways to meet. So a growing number of lawmakers want to legalize the process.

ROSS DEVOL, ECONOMIST, MILKEN INSTITUTE: I think we have to realize that we have people coming across the borders to work in this country all the time. They're largely invisible. They don't pay taxes. They don't cover their health care costs. If we develop a system that makes them legal, we can get them, for the most part, out of the underground economy and actually contributing to the tax base and, therefore, covering some of their health care costs.

WIAN: Los Angeles County alone, spends about $500 million a year jailing and providing health care for illegal immigrants. So county Mayor Michael Antonovich is proposing a guest worker program that would grant temporary work permits to immigrants as long as they or their employer posts a bond to cover potential health care costs.

MICHAEL ANTONOVICH, MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY: It is important that we return to a form of law where it's fairly adjudicated with due process and not allow the anarchy that illegal immigration has created to persist.

WIAN: Several national lawmakers also have proposed guest worker programs. Besides legalizing the cross border flow of labor, it would give more rights to immigrants who are mistreated. Opponents say the opposite is true.

MARC GROSSMAN, UNITED FARM WORKERS OF AMERICA: Every guest worker is tied to a single employer. And when that employer says the job is over or the guest worker complains about mistreatment or abuse, the worker is immediately deported. And there's nothing the worker can do about it.

At least an undocumented worker, if he or she is treated unfairly can walk away and go get another job.

WIAN: Some guest worker proposals are tied to a wider amnesty plan for the 8 million illegal immigrants already here or to crackdowns on smuggling. The White House was discussing the issues with Mexico before 9/11 put immigration reform on hold.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: Now skeptics, including federal law enforcement officers, say a guest worker program would just open up another path for illegal border crossers. Others say the number of guest worker, and amnesty proposals out there only encourage more illegal immigrants -- Lou.

DOBBS: More illegal immigrants or more illegal aliens? I notice some niceties of expression in this.

WIAN: Well, people use both terms. Illegal alien has been around a long time. I guess it is more politically correct to call them illegal immigrants. Some people don't even like the word illegal.

DOBBS: And i noticed that we were talking about what we call a cross border flow of labor, Casey? cross border flow -- this is rising to a level of PCness, if you will -- and political correctness -- obfuscating the very issues.

How secure are our borders and how serious are we about protecting the security of those borders? On the national level, also in California. What do you think?

WIAN: A lot of people would say, Lou, if you really want to get serious about cutting down on the border traffic, you would go after the businesses who hire these illegal immigrants and after the home owners who hire these illegal immigrants. Because despite the fact that they use up a lot of social services here in the United States, the motivation for most of them to come here is economic. And as long as those jobs are offered and as long as Americans aren't willing to do many of those jobs, they're going to keep coming no matter what the border patrol does.

DOBBS: To put it in terms that might be palatable to the PC crowd, in point of fact, outright in economic terms, those people are being exploited. Those illegal aliens in every instance.

WIAN: Absolutely.

DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much. Excellent reporting.

When we continue, who really wins in the long fought battle for Medicare reform?

Senator Mitch Mcconnell, is our guest next.

Also "Grange on Point": our resident advocate for the men and women in uniform and our veteran's, joins us to discuss military, a military that is undermanned and well over committed. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Turning now to a bill that could help millions of Americans pay for prescription drugs, the Medicare prescription drug benefit is expected to pass easily in both the House and the senate.

My next guest has been pivotal in winning Senate backing for that bill. Senator Mitch McConnell is one of the Republican leaders, the Senate Majority Whip, and joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Senator, good to have you here. SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: Glad to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: Passage assured in this legislation?

MCCONNELL: Yes. It will pass the Senate probably later tonight, certainly no later than tomorrow.

DOBBS: And that legislation, the House version or the Senate version will -- I'm going to ask you to go into the prognostication business.

MCCONNELL: It's an important conference. The term for the House and Senate sitting down together and resolving the differences. This is the most important social legislation passed around here in my memory. And we want to make sure we do it just right. We particularly want to make sure that there's a genuine opportunity for the private sector to actually compete in offering this new drug benefit to Medicare recipients. We think it's going to provide for the beneficiaries the kind of choice people that work for the federal government have had for a long time.

DOBBS: Surprisingly to some, Senator Edward Kennedy supporting this legislation, surprising also to some, conservatives unhappy that there isn't more of what you are referring to. That is the private providing organizations in this bill.

Are you going to be able to satisfy both Senator Kennedy and his constituency and the conservatives?

MCCONNELL: Well, you never satisfy everyone. Legislation is not easily achieved. But let me just say this, the final form of this bill is yet to be determined. That will be determined in this conference between the House and the Senate. I think there is virtually no chance that it won't have a strong private sector component. That is a big change. That the genuine Medicare reform. We're not just simply adding a new benefit, an important new benefit that seniors certainly want and deserve.

We're not simply adding a new benefit to the 1960s version of Medicare. We're updating and reforming and preserving Medicare and adding the benefit. And I think that a lot of conservatives are going to end up voting for this bill. I'm certainly in the conservative camp myself. I intend to vote for it. I think it's going to get better still in conference.

DOBBS: And estimated cost, about $400 billion over a decade?

MCCONNELL: Yes, that's all the budget allows us to spend. They're the way we're crafting the bill.

DOBBS: And the conference, how soon will be see the bill on its way to the president for his signature?

MCCONNELL: I think by tomorrow. Oh, to the president? I think the conference will go on for a while, certainly all the month of August, and you know, could go into the fall. I think this is a conference that needs not -- you know, that speed is not necessarily required. We want to make sure that -- it is a very complicated piece of legislation. We want to make sure that it's drafted just as well as it can possibly be done so that it lasts for many, many years. And so we want to get it right rather than just speed it through.

DOBBS: Well, as you say, senator, this legislation destroyed nearly important to millions of Americans. And we thank you for being here to advance, if you will, the story. And we wish you good luck in getting the bill through this evening.

MCCONNELL: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Senator Mitch McConnell, Senate majority whip.

And we want to turn now to a quote on reform on Capitol Hill. That quote is, and it comes from Capitol Hill, "Medicare will cut your leg off if you're a diabetic, but we won't pay for your insulin. Medicare needs to be reformed. A prescription drug benefit is good, preventive medicine."

That from Senator Lindsey Graham Republican of South Carolina.

My next guest -- well, rather, I want to turn to our poll question. "We're asking, do you believe evidence of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program will be found, yes or no?"

Please vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the show.

Turning now to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court today decided not to rule on a free speech case involving Nike which clears the way for the plaintiffs in that case to try their lawsuit against the shoemaker. At issue, whether the constitution protects a publicity campaign that Nike ran that campaign tried to answer accusations that its shoes were made in sweat shop conditions in Asia.

CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is here. A decision not to make a decision.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Unusual. Unusual situation here. Basically what these activists did in this case was to use the consumer protection laws, use false advertising laws where you say buy one, get one free and you don't get one, you can sue the company. They did that regarding the sweat shop ads by Nike. Political speech.

And the question was, was Nike's speech protected first amendment speech?

DOBBS: And this decision says what?

TOOBIN: The decision says, we don't know for sure, but it says the case needs to go to trial before they will decide it. But it's sort of a profound issue for a lot of companies here. Because a lot of companies, especially with globalization speak out on issues like diversity like sweat shops. And the question is, is that like an ad, which doesn't get first amendment protection, or is it like a speech on the street corner which does?

DOBBS: And when it goes to specifically the veracity of what they're saying about their own proprietary property, their own brand, their own organization, there's the suggestion here at least on the part of the Supreme Court, is there not, that they better tell the truth?

TOOBIN: There is that. And certainly, though this was mostly a no decision, the people challenging Nike are happier than Nike is today, because it means the burden of litigation will go forward, that the protesters, the anti-globalization people will at least get their day in court. And that is, you know, most of their battle, more than the money they expect to get.

DOBBS: Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you for sorting it out for us. Thank you.

When we continue, "Grange on Point": the U.S. military is over committed, undermanned. Our advocate for military personnel, General David Grange, joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The United States has its military stationed around the world. In fact, in more than 120 countries. The size of our military is smaller than it was only a decade ago. But operations have increased more than three-fold since then. Tonight, in "Grange on Point," undermanned and overcommitted. General David Grange from Chicago tonight. General, just how overcommitted are we? How undermanned?

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe, Lou, that the military is quite overcommitted. When the Cold War went away, the end of the Soviet empire, many missions popped up around the world that the United States armed forces was involved in. And when we thought there would be a peace dividend and the military could decrease in size and expenditures, in fact, it increased at least three-fold. All over the world, operations, missions, training, some training, some actually humanitarian assistance or combat in over 120 countries. So it actually picked up quite a bit.

DOBBS: With that kind of commitment and those staffing levels, what in the world is the impact on our men and women in uniform?

GRANGE: Well, what happens is those that are currently serving see themselves coming and going. You go on an operation, let's say, for six months. You come back to the United States or you come back to Germany, wherever your base is, and you get a few weeks off, and then you start training for the next mission or training for possible war, because even if you are deployed, let's say, in a peacekeeping operation in the Balkans, you still have to be ready for combat, let's say, if you went to North Korea. And so you're training for multiple tasks. And you are seeing yourself come and go, especially if you're in a high demand, critical specialty.

DOBBS: And the idea that we have forces in 120 countries -- and I realize that those are not all divisions, obviously, stationed around the world -- but that's a huge commitment. Aren't there other agencies in the federal government, whether it be the CIA, the military, various organizations, the State Department, that could carry out some of those tasks?

GRANGE: Well, some of those other governmental agencies are committed quite a bit as well. The problem is the military's the only one kick-started, ready to go on a moment's notice if a mission comes up. As an example, in Baghdad, where you may need an international police task force, there's none organized. So the military ends up taking those additional tasks on, because it's there, it's ready, it's organized, it's got leadership. And so the military gets dragged into a lot of additional tasks that other agencies or other countries could, in fact, do.

DOBBS: And point of fact, we should point out that some of those agencies, including the CIA, have been understaffed and undermanned for so long and are only now ramping up, they can't take on those responsibilities because of some of the same issues that affect the military.

The military, 60 percent of our personnel in uniform are married, have families. This has got to have a tremendous impact on them as well.

GRANGE: Probably the biggest impact. Soldiers usually are very excited about deploying, getting over, doing an operation, come back for a while and go again. The soldier's morale usually stays fairly high, though they get tired.

The families, it's a different story. When I was a lieutenant, maybe two people in the platoon were married. Now you have two-thirds of the platoon married. And so it's a lot of requirements, not only on medical, on pay, on housing, but just the stress induced on family members. And not only the active serving members, Lou, but also the reserve and National Guard, who are citizen soldiers, who have civilian sector jobs that are gone much longer than they anticipated and take actually a pay cut.

DOBBS: Absolutely. General Grange, as always, thanks for being here.

GRANGE: My pleasure, Lou.

DOBBS: Next week, "Grange on Point" will focus on conflicting national goals that are buffeting our military. General Grange will take a look at how those conflicts are raising the risks for our men and women of the U.S. armed forces.

Next, Peter Viles reports on the trouble with the NBA. We'll also have the preliminary results, at least, of tonight's poll. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Taking a look now at the results of our poll tonight. The question, do you believe evidence of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program will be found? Thirty-four percent of you said yes, 66 percent said no. Reminder, you can continue to vote on our Web site, cnn.com/lou. We'll have the final results here tomorrow night.

Across the street from our studios here in New York City, the NBA has begun a rebuilding project with some pretty high stakes. It is NBA draft time. Attendance at NBA games was actually up slightly this year, but ratings for the league files, very disappointing. They were, in fact, dismal. Now the league is hoping for a boost of excitement from a rookie crop that's being drafted tonight. Peter Viles has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They already rang the opening bell. Now the NBA needs them to ring up some points. Teenage draft picks Carmelo Anthony, Darko Milicic and LeBron James.

LEBRON JAMES, NBA DRAFTEE: NBA is like a family now. So you got to do everything that is good, you know, try to not -- just make sure you stay on your toes.

VILES: The league lost its balance this month when San Antonio and New Jersey couldn't find the basket in the finals.

ROY JOHNSON, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: You see more of these games, where you have about 38 to 20 half time score. I don't care what kind of a fan you are. That's terrible. You don't want to see that. You want to see some scoring, you want to see some shooting.

VILES: It was a ratings bummer for ABC, down 36 percent from last year's numbers. On NBC, a costly rookie season for Disney.

MICHAEL GALLANT, CIBC WORLD MARKETS: They really paid up to secure the NBA rights. They've guaranteed that ratings would be 35 percent higher than what they ultimately came in. And so ultimately they came up $25 million short.

VILES: ABC says the NBA outperformed previous programming and, quote, "we're very happy with it." And some of the what the league lost on broadcast, it gained on cable. Playoff ratings on TNT were up 27 percent.

RICK HORROW, HORROW SPORTS VENTURES: The NBA made a conscious decision to be more stable over time. They got a new six-year deal, which is wonderful, but it basically became a cable league, except for the premium buy events, which in the last few games of the finals, and the ratings showed that there always is a tradeoff when you make that decision.

VILES: The NBA insists all is well, telling CNN, quote, "business is booming. Merchandise sales are up 51 percent this year, and the league says it has plenty of stars."

DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: Right now we're a league that boasts Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter. Shall I go on? I mean, right now we have a Hall of Fame group that's going through our league.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Still, critics say the game right now is too slow, too much emphasis on individual play, not enough on the fundamentals. And oddly enough, many of the players now coming into the league with the best fundamental skills are coming from Eastern Europe -- Lou.

DOBBS: You just got to love David Stern. He is the ultimate salesman.

VILES: He sure is. And he's still out there selling.

DOBBS: And some people will be buying tonight across there in Madison Square Garden, the draft under way. Peter Viles, thanks.

That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, in a series of special reports, "Border Patrol," we take a look at a new system to track down foreign students who overstayed their visas. Asa Hutchinson, the undersecretary for border and transportation security, joins us, and the editors of "Forbes," "Fortune" and "BusinessWeek" all will join us in our weekly "Editors' Circle." For all of us here, good night from New York. "LIVE FROM THE HEADLINES" with Anderson Cooper coming right up.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Riyadh Bombings in Custody>


Aired June 26, 2003 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Turning now to a war that is still going on in Iraq, Iraqi gunmen today killed a member of the Special Operations forces team, another eight Special Forces troops were wounded. Two other soldiers are missing tonight and authorities say they may have been abducted.

We will turn now to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre who joins us live -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, a U.S. military official tonight said to me that this no doubt was an organized attack and represents what he called an increasing level of organization and sophistication even though there's no evidence at this point the anti-American forces knew that they were targeting the very same task force that is hunting for Saddam Hussein and other senior regime leaders.

According to Pentagon sources, a U.S. Army Ranger, assigned to that Task Force 20, was killed when the vehicle that he was traveling in with other soldiers passed by a truck laden with explosives, which was apparently then detonated causing the deaths and injuries.

This comes on top of a death of a U.S. Special Operations force in Afghanistan as well last night in an operation aimed at rooting out remnants there of the Taliban and al Qaeda. A U.S. Navy SEAL was shot in the face according to sources and died of his wounds. Two other Special Operations forces died there. No indication of any connection between those two events.

But back to Iraq, those two missing soldiers last seen at a checkpoint interacting with some local Iraqis in another vehicle and then they haven't been heard of since. A massive search is underway. Some local citizens pointed the way toward a nearby building where some blood and civilian clothes were found, but again no idea if that was connected to the disappearance of these two Army soldiers.

The investigation is still underway. Were they abducted? Pentagon officials say it's one possibility but they have no evidence at this point to say one way or the other -- Lou.

DOBBS: The number of deaths, the tragic loss of members of the U.S. it's seemingly daily now in Iraq. Has the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld given up what many thought was a rather facile remark talking about the people who were carrying out this violence against U.S. troops as dead-enders, has that kind of talk ended?

MCINTYRE: No, he still refers to them as dead-enders and he still says that it's going to take some time to root them out. But privately, officials who have been in on some of the briefings on the security situation in Iraq concede that they are seeing, as I said, an increasing level of organization what one person called a classic urban guerrilla force insurgency taking initiative against the U.S. forces looking for vulnerabilities and probing them.

And, he noted that under Saddam Hussein's regime the secret police would have the authority to sort of crush this kind of opposition but the U.S. doesn't have that kind of coercive apparatus, so the U.S. has had a bit of a disadvantage, so it's going to take some time and we're told we can expect to see a continuation of these attacks against U.S. forces for some time -- Lou.

DOBBS: Without a planned response and a way for our military to protect themselves?

MCINTYRE: Well, there is a plan and that is the plan is to be very aggressive not to sit back and wait for the attacks but to take the fight to the enemy, to continue to use local informants to try to track them down and to be very, very aggressive in trying to go after these forces before they go after the U.S. That's the plan.

DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre our Senior Pentagon Correspondent.

Still ahead here tonight in our special report tonight, "Border Patrol," illegal aliens or are they guest workers? Casey Wian will report on a controversial idea to say the least to deal with illegal aliens.

Also ahead tonight, help is on the way for some 40 million Americans after a hard fought battle over prescription drugs.

And, a member of the Republican leadership in the Senate, Majority Whip Senator Mitch McConnell joins us. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight, U.S. and Saudi officials say the mastermind of the suicide bombings in Riyadh last month is now in Saudi custody. Those bombings killed 35 people, nine Americans among the dead.

National Security Correspondent David Ensor joins me now -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, as you say U.S. and Saudi officials are calling this man the ringleader, one U.S. official calling this a very significant catch.

We have a picture we believe of the man. He is Ali Abd al-Rahman al-Faqasi al-Ghamdi otherwise known as Abu Bakr Azdi. He is said to have been involved in the planning and the execution of the bombings May 12th in Riyadh that led, as you said, to the deaths of 35 people. Of course nine of those were the bombers themselves, 26 innocent victims, nine of them Americans.

He is also said to be linked to a number of senior al Qaeda figures, possibly to Saif al-Adel and Abu Mohammed al-Masri. There are reports that he may have been in Tora Bora in 2001 and may at that time have met Osama bin Laden.

In any case, as I say, U.S. and Saudi officials saying this is a major catch. He is said by the Saudis to have turned himself in at a checkpoint, possibly near the city of Medina and they are saying that no deals were made that he will be tried under Islamic law -- Lou.

DOBBS: No deals made. What motivated him to turn himself in?

ENSOR: Well, not clear at this point but certainly the Saudis have been cracking down hard on anybody they suspect of having any involvement with the Riyadh bombings or any association with those who did. There are officials who are saying he was lonely. The rest of the gang had already been rounded up.

DOBBS: Will U.S. authorities have the opportunity to interrogate him?

ENSOR: They are very interested in doing that, Lou, and of course as you know in the past that has not always been easy with the Saudis. At the time of the Khobar Towers bombing some years ago the U.S. very badly wanted to interrogate people involved in that and they were executed without giving the U.S. a chance.

But the cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia has been greatly improving since 9/11 and, in fact, since the Riyadh bombings officials are saying it's really been excellent, so they are hoping that they will have access to this man -- Lou.

DOBBS: David, yesterday you reported first that the CIA had discovered equipment that was turned over to them that may prove that Iran had a nuclear weapons program possibility at least. What else have you learned about the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

ENSOR: Well, we had an exclusive interview with David Kay who is the CIA's top man now in Iraq, a former U.N. arms inspector himself. We talked to him over the teleconferencing, secure teleconferencing facility at the CIA and one of the things that he said to us that is intriguing and needs watching is he said that he believes we may have some surprises coming quite soon.

He believes there is some rapid progress underway in the area of finding evidence of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs. Now, he didn't give any details about that but CIA officials are saying that part of the reason for the optimism is there is a sense that more of the Iraqi scientists are now willing to talk than before -- Lou.

DOBBS: And, we should point out that David Kay, a former U.N. weapons inspector has also been a leading skeptic, if you will, on the issue of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the months leading up to the war against Saddam Hussein and during the war, isn't that correct?

ENSOR: You know I really do not know the answer to that. That may be the case. I'm not sure.

DOBBS: David, how's this story playing in Washington, particularly with the intelligence and defense community?

ENSOR: Well, as you know, Lou, CNN was aware that this particular Iraqi scientist had turned over these gas centrifuge pieces of equipment and masses of documents.

Last week, we were asked to hold the story by the CIA which said there were national security issues and lives were at stake so we only reported it yesterday when they said it would be all right to do that. Those issues were resolved.

So, interestingly, although the agency and people in the intelligence community asked us to hold the story back, I'm getting the impression today that they and others around the government are quite pleased with the story.

They have a -- they are hoping that this story about an Iraqi scientist who has now been moved out of the country and is in safe hands will be an example to other Iraqi scientists and may cause more of them to come forward and tell what they know -- Lou.

DOBBS: David, thank you very much, David Ensor from Washington, our National Security Correspondent.

Turning now to the White House, today the White House said the discovery of the equipment from Iraq's nuclear program reinforces the president's case that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop weapons of mass destruction.

Our Senior White House Correspondent John King joins us now -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, already this discovery has become, if you will, the new Exhibit A in the ongoing political debate over where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The White House saying today that this discovery buried in a backyard of an Iraqi scientist is proof of how easy it is to hide evidence of a program of weapons of mass destruction, in this case of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.

White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer today says this new evidence completely refutes the assertions by Saddam Hussein that he had put his nuclear ambitions aside and had absolutely no plans to reconstitute a nuclear program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Dr. Obeidi told us that these items, the blueprints and the key centrifuge pieces represented a template for what would be needed to rebuild a centrifuge uranium enrichment program. He also claimed that this concealment was part of a secret high level plan to reconstitute the nuclear weapons program once sanctions had ended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, White House officials acknowledge this evidence goes back about a dozen years when this scientist said he was told to hide it, but the White House and other government agencies making the case that this is proof to them of how easy it is to hide the evidence.

It is proof to them that Saddam Hussein was going to great lengths to hide evidence and they believe, Lou, not only of a nuclear program but of a chemical and biological program as well.

They say in the weeks ahead, as David just noted, they hope more scientists will come forward and they say in the weeks ahead that they are optimistic and quite confident there will be more discoveries like this, more evidence to put the critics on notice that indeed there were weapons -- Lou.

DOBBS: It is interesting as you say. They're putting the critics on notice as far as the White House and the administration, the Pentagon, have all -- and the State Department have all been on the defensive here. This is really a case of raising expectations again on the part of David Kay, as David Ensor reported and the White House.

KING: Well, that is one of the worries. They are, of course, quite happy to have some evidence not only of a weapons program but of the way it was hidden, under a rosebush, buried in the ground in a garden. They say weapons inspectors never would have found it, so that if the inspectors had gone on for weeks and months more before the war, they never would have found it.

So, the White House is citing that it's proof. It is not so difficult to hide these things but, you're right, now that they have found evidence of a nuclear program buried 12 years ago, they say they're confident they'll find more. But you can be sure, Lou, on Capitol Hill and elsewhere the critics will say where is it pretty quickly? They won't wait very long.

DOBBS: I think you're exactly right, John. John King, Senior White House Correspondent, thank you.

KING: Thank you.

DOBBS: Violence today continued in the Middle East even as Israel and the Palestinians appeared to be moving toward a truce. A Palestinian gunman killed an Israeli in the West Bank. An Israeli guard then killed the gunman.

The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a group closely associated with Yasser Arafat, claimed responsibility for the terrorism. Later, Israeli security forces killed two Palestinians in the same areas. Israeli defense forces said they were carrying bags that contained explosives.

Yasser Arafat today said an Israeli-Palestinian cease-fire will be announced soon. It is simply the latest in a series of public comments by the Palestinian leader over the past three days. Arafat has hardly been seen in previous weeks. It is clear now that Yasser Arafat has reemerged as a key player in the truce negotiations -- Kitty Pilgrim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the Middle East, the cameras are rolling and the photo op is Arafat? Yasser Arafat today talking about a cease-fire agreement telling reporters a formal announcement was coming that raising some questions over just who is in charge here.

After all, the Bush administration has done everything it can to sideline Arafat, preferring instead to negotiate with Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas. Today, the White House needing to make that clear again.

FLEISCHER: We will continue to deal with Prime Minister Abbas because he can deliver on peace but the United States obviously doesn't control everything that everybody in the region can say.

PILGRIM: Two weeks ago, President Bush met with Mr. Abbas and Israel's Ariel Sharon in Aqaba to initiate a road map for Middle East peace but many say just because Arafat isn't at the meeting doesn't mean he isn't in the loop.

RICHARD MURPHY, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: He will not be sidelined and the fact is that after every significant conversation between Mahmoud Abbas and foreign representatives, be they American, European, whomever, he has gone to Arafat and briefed him on what was said.

PILGRIM: Arafat is still being courted by some world figures today meeting with the Irish foreign minister.

MARK PERRY, AUTHOR "FIRE IN ZION": There's been a very purposeful attempt on the part of the Palestinian leadership to thrust him out once more, to show the world once more that they're not going to agree with American dictates.

PILGRIM: Arafat is legend for his survivability. This week the Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Yaalon openly talked about past discussions to try to assassinate Arafat. The discussions went nowhere but Arafat was under siege in his compound three times last year. One of the sieges lasted 34 days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Every time Arafat comes under siege his standing rises in the polls with the Palestinian people and many say it is absolutely pointless to try to eliminate him and now, it seems, impossible to ignore him also -- Lou. DOBBS: An intriguing development. Much, I'm sure, to the dislike of both Ariel Sharon and George Bush.

Kitty, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim.

Turning now to our poll question of the evening. Do you believe evidence of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program will be found? Yes or no. Please vote on our web site CNN.com/lou -- we'll have the results later in the show.

These are the final results of last night's poll. The question, would you support stationing military troops along U.S. borders to stop the flow of illegal immigrants? 59 percent of you voted definitely, both borders. 24 percent said, definitely, the Mexican border. 6 percent said, in some cases. 11 percent said, never.

Now, taking a quick look at some of your thoughts. Our e-mail overwhelming on our special report on border patrol.

Alan Hale of Brighton, Colorado wrote to say, "as long as we continue to furnish with American business with cheap subsidized labor, in the form illegal aliens, our borders will never be secure."

Michael Terry of Toledo, Ohio, "I am a refuge from California myself, where over crowding, unemployment, and culture conflict made life there impossible. And there is no greater reason for these problems than the unrestricted, amazingly massive immigration that is pouring into that state and into the rest of the country."

Barry Ames of Lake Forest, California said, "great border story. Traversing the world starting wars without first protecting our borders is like swatting at beehives with ones pants around his ankles. When will our leaders figure this out?"

On President Bush's tax cut, Lorraine Robertson of Glendale, Arizona, wrote to say, "I had a professor of economics who explained this trickle down theory in this way, you stop the cows to feed the birds. Guess what the birds eat?"

And we thought one of the most interesting comments on affirmative action which we featured in week's face-off segment came from Dan Pesky of New Mexico. He had a simple question, "can affirmative action be implemented without racial profiling?"

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.

Coming up next, the latest in our series of special reports, border patrol. Tonight Casey Wian reports on the growing controversy over illegal aliens or are they guest workers?

Also ahead, "Grange on Point." Our resident advocate for military personnel and veterans on a military that is now short changed and overworked.

And inside the trouble with the NBA, will a would-be star save professional basketball. Peter Viles will have the story. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Stocks today closed near session highs. Hopes that the interest rate cut will spur the economy -- that's a little reversal of mood from yesterday -- the Dow up 67.5 points, the Nasdaq up 31.5, the S&P 500 up 10.5. A lot of halves in there. Susan Lisovicz is here and she has the market for us. Quite a reversal from yesterday.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite a reversal, nice reversal. But there are some bearish signs as well, Lou. You know, traders continue to debate the merits of yesterday's fed cut, but in the meantime, fresh economic and corporate news allowed the markets to stabilize after yesterday's losses.

The weekly jobless number reached its lowest level since March. That helped investors shrug off a much weaker revision on economic growth in the first quarter.

Airlines got a lift from the parent company of American Airlines. AMR surging 20 percent on word that it had positive cash flow in May and June.

Guidant rallying after telling investors it will meet or exceed previous forecasts for the second quarter.

A terrific session for tech stocks. Nextel moving 7 percent higher, and upbeat earnings guidance for the year. A profit warning set back Playtex by 12 1/2 percent.

But the biggest percentage loser at the big board and the most actively traded issue was the Irish pharmaceutical company Elan. The stock plummeted 29 percent after the company said it missed a deadline for filing its 2002 annual report with the S.E.C.

GM losing ground after selling more than $6 billion in debt as part of a massive debt offering. But overall, Lou, a broad based rally today. But it came on light volume which automatically makes it suspect.

DOBBS: And we're probably going to have a lot of that light volume over the course of this summer.

LISOVICZ: Dog days of summer.

DOBBS: Our corporate American criminal scoreboard, 73 executives still charged with crimes, 16 still from Enron. Sam Waksal still going to jail. 570 days from when it all started with Enron's bankruptcy.

Tonight in our series of special reports, this week focusing on border patrol. 700,000 illegal aliens come into this country every year. That's right, 700,000. Now some lawmakers say we can redefine the battle. They want to, instead of calling them illegal aliens, actually make them guest workers. Casey Wian has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For hundreds of thousand of illegal immigrants each year, the lure of a job picking grapes, washing dishes, mowing lawns or tending children is so great, they're willing to risk their life savings, sometimes their very lives crossing the U.S. border.

And for nearly as many American farmers, restaurant owners and families, that cheap labor is too tempting to pass up. No matter how hard the border control cracks down on illegal immigration, labor supply and demand find ways to meet. So a growing number of lawmakers want to legalize the process.

ROSS DEVOL, ECONOMIST, MILKEN INSTITUTE: I think we have to realize that we have people coming across the borders to work in this country all the time. They're largely invisible. They don't pay taxes. They don't cover their health care costs. If we develop a system that makes them legal, we can get them, for the most part, out of the underground economy and actually contributing to the tax base and, therefore, covering some of their health care costs.

WIAN: Los Angeles County alone, spends about $500 million a year jailing and providing health care for illegal immigrants. So county Mayor Michael Antonovich is proposing a guest worker program that would grant temporary work permits to immigrants as long as they or their employer posts a bond to cover potential health care costs.

MICHAEL ANTONOVICH, MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY: It is important that we return to a form of law where it's fairly adjudicated with due process and not allow the anarchy that illegal immigration has created to persist.

WIAN: Several national lawmakers also have proposed guest worker programs. Besides legalizing the cross border flow of labor, it would give more rights to immigrants who are mistreated. Opponents say the opposite is true.

MARC GROSSMAN, UNITED FARM WORKERS OF AMERICA: Every guest worker is tied to a single employer. And when that employer says the job is over or the guest worker complains about mistreatment or abuse, the worker is immediately deported. And there's nothing the worker can do about it.

At least an undocumented worker, if he or she is treated unfairly can walk away and go get another job.

WIAN: Some guest worker proposals are tied to a wider amnesty plan for the 8 million illegal immigrants already here or to crackdowns on smuggling. The White House was discussing the issues with Mexico before 9/11 put immigration reform on hold.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: Now skeptics, including federal law enforcement officers, say a guest worker program would just open up another path for illegal border crossers. Others say the number of guest worker, and amnesty proposals out there only encourage more illegal immigrants -- Lou.

DOBBS: More illegal immigrants or more illegal aliens? I notice some niceties of expression in this.

WIAN: Well, people use both terms. Illegal alien has been around a long time. I guess it is more politically correct to call them illegal immigrants. Some people don't even like the word illegal.

DOBBS: And i noticed that we were talking about what we call a cross border flow of labor, Casey? cross border flow -- this is rising to a level of PCness, if you will -- and political correctness -- obfuscating the very issues.

How secure are our borders and how serious are we about protecting the security of those borders? On the national level, also in California. What do you think?

WIAN: A lot of people would say, Lou, if you really want to get serious about cutting down on the border traffic, you would go after the businesses who hire these illegal immigrants and after the home owners who hire these illegal immigrants. Because despite the fact that they use up a lot of social services here in the United States, the motivation for most of them to come here is economic. And as long as those jobs are offered and as long as Americans aren't willing to do many of those jobs, they're going to keep coming no matter what the border patrol does.

DOBBS: To put it in terms that might be palatable to the PC crowd, in point of fact, outright in economic terms, those people are being exploited. Those illegal aliens in every instance.

WIAN: Absolutely.

DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much. Excellent reporting.

When we continue, who really wins in the long fought battle for Medicare reform?

Senator Mitch Mcconnell, is our guest next.

Also "Grange on Point": our resident advocate for the men and women in uniform and our veteran's, joins us to discuss military, a military that is undermanned and well over committed. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Turning now to a bill that could help millions of Americans pay for prescription drugs, the Medicare prescription drug benefit is expected to pass easily in both the House and the senate.

My next guest has been pivotal in winning Senate backing for that bill. Senator Mitch McConnell is one of the Republican leaders, the Senate Majority Whip, and joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Senator, good to have you here. SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: Glad to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: Passage assured in this legislation?

MCCONNELL: Yes. It will pass the Senate probably later tonight, certainly no later than tomorrow.

DOBBS: And that legislation, the House version or the Senate version will -- I'm going to ask you to go into the prognostication business.

MCCONNELL: It's an important conference. The term for the House and Senate sitting down together and resolving the differences. This is the most important social legislation passed around here in my memory. And we want to make sure we do it just right. We particularly want to make sure that there's a genuine opportunity for the private sector to actually compete in offering this new drug benefit to Medicare recipients. We think it's going to provide for the beneficiaries the kind of choice people that work for the federal government have had for a long time.

DOBBS: Surprisingly to some, Senator Edward Kennedy supporting this legislation, surprising also to some, conservatives unhappy that there isn't more of what you are referring to. That is the private providing organizations in this bill.

Are you going to be able to satisfy both Senator Kennedy and his constituency and the conservatives?

MCCONNELL: Well, you never satisfy everyone. Legislation is not easily achieved. But let me just say this, the final form of this bill is yet to be determined. That will be determined in this conference between the House and the Senate. I think there is virtually no chance that it won't have a strong private sector component. That is a big change. That the genuine Medicare reform. We're not just simply adding a new benefit, an important new benefit that seniors certainly want and deserve.

We're not simply adding a new benefit to the 1960s version of Medicare. We're updating and reforming and preserving Medicare and adding the benefit. And I think that a lot of conservatives are going to end up voting for this bill. I'm certainly in the conservative camp myself. I intend to vote for it. I think it's going to get better still in conference.

DOBBS: And estimated cost, about $400 billion over a decade?

MCCONNELL: Yes, that's all the budget allows us to spend. They're the way we're crafting the bill.

DOBBS: And the conference, how soon will be see the bill on its way to the president for his signature?

MCCONNELL: I think by tomorrow. Oh, to the president? I think the conference will go on for a while, certainly all the month of August, and you know, could go into the fall. I think this is a conference that needs not -- you know, that speed is not necessarily required. We want to make sure that -- it is a very complicated piece of legislation. We want to make sure that it's drafted just as well as it can possibly be done so that it lasts for many, many years. And so we want to get it right rather than just speed it through.

DOBBS: Well, as you say, senator, this legislation destroyed nearly important to millions of Americans. And we thank you for being here to advance, if you will, the story. And we wish you good luck in getting the bill through this evening.

MCCONNELL: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Senator Mitch McConnell, Senate majority whip.

And we want to turn now to a quote on reform on Capitol Hill. That quote is, and it comes from Capitol Hill, "Medicare will cut your leg off if you're a diabetic, but we won't pay for your insulin. Medicare needs to be reformed. A prescription drug benefit is good, preventive medicine."

That from Senator Lindsey Graham Republican of South Carolina.

My next guest -- well, rather, I want to turn to our poll question. "We're asking, do you believe evidence of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program will be found, yes or no?"

Please vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the show.

Turning now to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court today decided not to rule on a free speech case involving Nike which clears the way for the plaintiffs in that case to try their lawsuit against the shoemaker. At issue, whether the constitution protects a publicity campaign that Nike ran that campaign tried to answer accusations that its shoes were made in sweat shop conditions in Asia.

CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is here. A decision not to make a decision.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Unusual. Unusual situation here. Basically what these activists did in this case was to use the consumer protection laws, use false advertising laws where you say buy one, get one free and you don't get one, you can sue the company. They did that regarding the sweat shop ads by Nike. Political speech.

And the question was, was Nike's speech protected first amendment speech?

DOBBS: And this decision says what?

TOOBIN: The decision says, we don't know for sure, but it says the case needs to go to trial before they will decide it. But it's sort of a profound issue for a lot of companies here. Because a lot of companies, especially with globalization speak out on issues like diversity like sweat shops. And the question is, is that like an ad, which doesn't get first amendment protection, or is it like a speech on the street corner which does?

DOBBS: And when it goes to specifically the veracity of what they're saying about their own proprietary property, their own brand, their own organization, there's the suggestion here at least on the part of the Supreme Court, is there not, that they better tell the truth?

TOOBIN: There is that. And certainly, though this was mostly a no decision, the people challenging Nike are happier than Nike is today, because it means the burden of litigation will go forward, that the protesters, the anti-globalization people will at least get their day in court. And that is, you know, most of their battle, more than the money they expect to get.

DOBBS: Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you for sorting it out for us. Thank you.

When we continue, "Grange on Point": the U.S. military is over committed, undermanned. Our advocate for military personnel, General David Grange, joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The United States has its military stationed around the world. In fact, in more than 120 countries. The size of our military is smaller than it was only a decade ago. But operations have increased more than three-fold since then. Tonight, in "Grange on Point," undermanned and overcommitted. General David Grange from Chicago tonight. General, just how overcommitted are we? How undermanned?

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe, Lou, that the military is quite overcommitted. When the Cold War went away, the end of the Soviet empire, many missions popped up around the world that the United States armed forces was involved in. And when we thought there would be a peace dividend and the military could decrease in size and expenditures, in fact, it increased at least three-fold. All over the world, operations, missions, training, some training, some actually humanitarian assistance or combat in over 120 countries. So it actually picked up quite a bit.

DOBBS: With that kind of commitment and those staffing levels, what in the world is the impact on our men and women in uniform?

GRANGE: Well, what happens is those that are currently serving see themselves coming and going. You go on an operation, let's say, for six months. You come back to the United States or you come back to Germany, wherever your base is, and you get a few weeks off, and then you start training for the next mission or training for possible war, because even if you are deployed, let's say, in a peacekeeping operation in the Balkans, you still have to be ready for combat, let's say, if you went to North Korea. And so you're training for multiple tasks. And you are seeing yourself come and go, especially if you're in a high demand, critical specialty.

DOBBS: And the idea that we have forces in 120 countries -- and I realize that those are not all divisions, obviously, stationed around the world -- but that's a huge commitment. Aren't there other agencies in the federal government, whether it be the CIA, the military, various organizations, the State Department, that could carry out some of those tasks?

GRANGE: Well, some of those other governmental agencies are committed quite a bit as well. The problem is the military's the only one kick-started, ready to go on a moment's notice if a mission comes up. As an example, in Baghdad, where you may need an international police task force, there's none organized. So the military ends up taking those additional tasks on, because it's there, it's ready, it's organized, it's got leadership. And so the military gets dragged into a lot of additional tasks that other agencies or other countries could, in fact, do.

DOBBS: And point of fact, we should point out that some of those agencies, including the CIA, have been understaffed and undermanned for so long and are only now ramping up, they can't take on those responsibilities because of some of the same issues that affect the military.

The military, 60 percent of our personnel in uniform are married, have families. This has got to have a tremendous impact on them as well.

GRANGE: Probably the biggest impact. Soldiers usually are very excited about deploying, getting over, doing an operation, come back for a while and go again. The soldier's morale usually stays fairly high, though they get tired.

The families, it's a different story. When I was a lieutenant, maybe two people in the platoon were married. Now you have two-thirds of the platoon married. And so it's a lot of requirements, not only on medical, on pay, on housing, but just the stress induced on family members. And not only the active serving members, Lou, but also the reserve and National Guard, who are citizen soldiers, who have civilian sector jobs that are gone much longer than they anticipated and take actually a pay cut.

DOBBS: Absolutely. General Grange, as always, thanks for being here.

GRANGE: My pleasure, Lou.

DOBBS: Next week, "Grange on Point" will focus on conflicting national goals that are buffeting our military. General Grange will take a look at how those conflicts are raising the risks for our men and women of the U.S. armed forces.

Next, Peter Viles reports on the trouble with the NBA. We'll also have the preliminary results, at least, of tonight's poll. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Taking a look now at the results of our poll tonight. The question, do you believe evidence of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program will be found? Thirty-four percent of you said yes, 66 percent said no. Reminder, you can continue to vote on our Web site, cnn.com/lou. We'll have the final results here tomorrow night.

Across the street from our studios here in New York City, the NBA has begun a rebuilding project with some pretty high stakes. It is NBA draft time. Attendance at NBA games was actually up slightly this year, but ratings for the league files, very disappointing. They were, in fact, dismal. Now the league is hoping for a boost of excitement from a rookie crop that's being drafted tonight. Peter Viles has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They already rang the opening bell. Now the NBA needs them to ring up some points. Teenage draft picks Carmelo Anthony, Darko Milicic and LeBron James.

LEBRON JAMES, NBA DRAFTEE: NBA is like a family now. So you got to do everything that is good, you know, try to not -- just make sure you stay on your toes.

VILES: The league lost its balance this month when San Antonio and New Jersey couldn't find the basket in the finals.

ROY JOHNSON, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: You see more of these games, where you have about 38 to 20 half time score. I don't care what kind of a fan you are. That's terrible. You don't want to see that. You want to see some scoring, you want to see some shooting.

VILES: It was a ratings bummer for ABC, down 36 percent from last year's numbers. On NBC, a costly rookie season for Disney.

MICHAEL GALLANT, CIBC WORLD MARKETS: They really paid up to secure the NBA rights. They've guaranteed that ratings would be 35 percent higher than what they ultimately came in. And so ultimately they came up $25 million short.

VILES: ABC says the NBA outperformed previous programming and, quote, "we're very happy with it." And some of the what the league lost on broadcast, it gained on cable. Playoff ratings on TNT were up 27 percent.

RICK HORROW, HORROW SPORTS VENTURES: The NBA made a conscious decision to be more stable over time. They got a new six-year deal, which is wonderful, but it basically became a cable league, except for the premium buy events, which in the last few games of the finals, and the ratings showed that there always is a tradeoff when you make that decision.

VILES: The NBA insists all is well, telling CNN, quote, "business is booming. Merchandise sales are up 51 percent this year, and the league says it has plenty of stars."

DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: Right now we're a league that boasts Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter. Shall I go on? I mean, right now we have a Hall of Fame group that's going through our league.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Still, critics say the game right now is too slow, too much emphasis on individual play, not enough on the fundamentals. And oddly enough, many of the players now coming into the league with the best fundamental skills are coming from Eastern Europe -- Lou.

DOBBS: You just got to love David Stern. He is the ultimate salesman.

VILES: He sure is. And he's still out there selling.

DOBBS: And some people will be buying tonight across there in Madison Square Garden, the draft under way. Peter Viles, thanks.

That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, in a series of special reports, "Border Patrol," we take a look at a new system to track down foreign students who overstayed their visas. Asa Hutchinson, the undersecretary for border and transportation security, joins us, and the editors of "Forbes," "Fortune" and "BusinessWeek" all will join us in our weekly "Editors' Circle." For all of us here, good night from New York. "LIVE FROM THE HEADLINES" with Anderson Cooper coming right up.

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