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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Interview With Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison; Terrorism Now Top Concern in Iraq
Aired August 22, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAN HOPKINS, CNN ANCHOR: Police look for a man seen in a pickup truck near some of the sniper shootings in West Virginia. The FBI calls for the public's help.
The confrontation over the Ten Commandments monument in Alabama. State officials may be planning to move the monument in the next few days.
Nearly 150,000 U.S. troops are fighting in Iraq. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison has just visited the country and will tell us why she believes even more troops are necessary.
And "Heroes," the first in a series of features about service men and women coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan; tonight, the challenge of returning to civilian life.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, August 22. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Jan Hopkins.
Good evening.
Tonight: uncompromising talk from President Bush about the war on terror. The president said that al Qaeda supporters are entering Iraq because they cannot stand the thought of a free society in the Middle East. He also said radical Palestinians are carrying out terrorist attacks against Israel for the sake of killing.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the president and reports from Burbank, Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Bush in no uncertain terms admitted to and even called for additional help in stabilizing Iraq.
Earlier today, President Bush said that the administration needs and welcomes more foreign troops inside of the country. The president also confirmed that the administration is now discussing another U.N. Security Council resolution to attract additional countries to add forces or aides inside of that country. The president even hinted on what their role might be.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those who hate freedom destroy the infrastructures that we've been improving. It's part of their strategy. So we'll get more people guarding that. And in the meantime -- and that will help free up our hunter teams.
MALVEAUX: And on the Middle East, the president took a giant leap forward in punishing Hamas for the deadly attack that occurred in Israel on Tuesday, killing 20 people, the president announcing that he has directed the Treasury Department to freeze the assets of six top Hamas leaders, as well as the assets of five nongovernmental organizations believed to contribute financially to Hamas, the president releasing a written statement in which he said -- and I'm quoting here -- "'by claiming responsibility for the despicable act of terror on August 19, Hamas has reaffirmed that it is a terrorist organization committed to violence against Israelis and to undermining progress toward peace between Israel and the Palestinian people."
The significance of this is that the administration is now signaling that it is not making a distinction between the political as well as the military extremist wing of Hamas, that all of its leaders are responsible for this terrorist attack.
Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Burbank, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: As the road map to peace faces one of its toughest challenges, there was anger in the streets in the Middle East today. About 50,000 Palestinians chanted angry slogans during the funeral of a Hamas leader killed by Israel. A senior Israeli official said that attack was only the beginning. Later, Israeli troops killed a radical Islamist in a hospital on the West Bank.
Michael Holmes reports from Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tens of thousands of Palestinians poured onto the hot, narrow streets of Gaza City to join in the funeral procession for Ismail Abu Shanab, the Hamas leader killed in an Israeli missile strike on Thursday, along with two of his bodyguards.
He is seen by many Palestinians and independent observers as something of a moderate voice within the Hamas organization. But, to Israel, he was involved in terrorism. He had blood on his hands, according to Israeli government spokesmen, and indeed had been involved in the planning and execution of the suicide bus bombing that occurred in west Jerusalem earlier in the week and which led to his death on the streets of Gaza.
All militant groups were represented, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. They were all in the procession, as it carried for four hours from the hospital morgues to the family home to a mosque. During the procession, there was gunfire in the air, a traditional Palestinian action during such funeral processions, and there was plenty of anger. The loudspeakers on tops of vans were urging Hamas supporters to join in the fight against Israel.
With the cease-fire now dead, people in Israel are on high alert, security services and ordinary civilians as well. And here in the Gaza Strip, Hamas is also on alert, fearing another strike at its leadership. Israel says the Palestinian Authority did not act. It will not hesitate to do so.
Michael Holmes, CNN, Gaza City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: In this country, a senior FBI agent today called for the public's help in the search for a sniper who has killed three people in West Virginia.
Police have released a sketch of a man who was seen in a dark pickup truck near two of the shootings. Investigators also want to speak to a tall, thin man who may have seen some of the attacks.
Maria Hinojosa has our report from Charleston, West Virginia -- Maria.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jan, you know, there are a lot of mixed emotions here in Charleston, West Virginia, a lot of people still very much afraid, very concerned that this sniper is still on the loose.
But there are others who are saying that they are not going to let this person scare them into staying indoors, but all of the attention today focused on this composite sketch that was released last night and hit the front page of the papers this morning. Here in town, everyone was paying attention to this. Authorities today said to us in a press conference that this is a person that they want to speak to who was located in a couple of these shootings.
They said that they are reaching out to the public to -- quote -- "clarify facts and identify more witnesses." But they emphasized that this man is not a suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH MCCABE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: We released a sketch of an individual that we are interested in talking to. This individual was present at the August 14 shooting at the Go-Mart convenience store located at 3399 U.S. Route 60 in Cedar Grove. We would like to identify this person. I encourage anyone with information to call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HINOJOSA: Now, earlier today, one week and one day after the last deadly shooting here in Charleston, West Virginia, the ATF recreating the scene of one of these crimes.
Now, they were doing this with a very high-tech process using laser teams. They had people out there shooting from inside a pickup truck that they say was located at one of these shootings. They had someone sitting inside this truck, actually positioning himself as if he was shooting a .22-caliber gun in different positions to determine, was he inside the truck was, was he outside the truck, was he sitting or standing inside the truck?
But the interesting thing, Jan, is that this is a state where you are allowed to carry a loaded and concealed weapon. And today, we spoke with one man who had a message for the shooter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CALVIN ARMSTEAD, WEST VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Somebody might get him without -- before he gets someone else. He has to kind of start watching his back, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HINOJOSA: A lot of fear, a lot of frustration, a lot of concern, a lot of people who want this person caught, so they can avoid another deadly tragedy -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Maria, though, a lot of response to that sketch, right? People are calling in with identifications and information.
HINOJOSA: Absolutely.
They say that they have been flooded with calls, but they're saying that they are screening these calls very carefully. But, interestingly, Jan, we went to some place where we were earlier today, in that diner, and there were people there who said they thought that they knew who this person was. They just couldn't place his name, place where they knew him, but they said that they had thought that they had seen him. So the FBI and the task force here are saying that they will take all of these calls, research them very clearly, and then move forward -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Maria Hinojosa, in Charleston, West Virginia.
And in Alabama tonight, the stage is set for a dramatic confrontation over a granite monument of the Ten Commandments. Attorneys for those demanding its removal from a state building said, state officials are planning to move the monument. But supporters of the monument say that they will block any attempt to take it away.
David Mattingly joins us live from Montgomery, Alabama -- David.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The crowd behind me right now joining in another round of the Lord's Prayer.
They have been going through a flurry of activity in the last few minutes, people trying to track down rumors that Judge Roy Moore has been temporarily suspended from the bench. At this point, there is no confirmation on that. In fact, a spokesman for Justice Moore came down just a few moments ago and said that the justice has not been notified of this.
In fact, our contacts have not been notified of this either. Speaking to the plaintiffs in this case, who raised the question with the Alabama Judicial Board of Review, they -- the people who lodged the complaint of possible judicial misconduct on the part of Justice Moore say they have not heard anything about this yet.
So, again, a great deal of concern among the supporters for Justice Moore here. They are maintaining their vigil, keeping an eye on the monument. It is still in the building now almost two complete days after the federal deadline passed in which a federal judge said it had to be removed. The state of Alabama got some good news today. They were told that the threat of a fine, a $5,000-a-day fine, is now on hold.
The plaintiffs in this case say they are satisfied that the state is moving forward as it should right now to remove that monument. And, at this point, there is no threat of that $5,000-a-day fine, but, again, a great deal of concern rippling through this crowd with those rumors that Justice Moore has been suspended from the bench as the chief justice of the Alabama state Supreme Court.
He has been -- he did have to go -- his case -- before the Judicial Board of Review today. And it's that board that acts sort of as a grand jury. They listen to complaints of judicial misconduct. And if they decide there's enough evidence, then they will send it to a judicial court to hear those findings. And if that is the case, then the judge is suspended.
And that board then, that court, does have the authority, if he is found guilty of misconduct, to remove him completely from the bench, so, again, a great deal of concern among his supporters here. And they continue their vigil of the -- to keep an eye on the monument of the Ten Commandments, and everyone waiting, just as they have for the last two days, just to see what happens next -- back to you.
HOPKINS: David, if in fact there's a move to remove the monument, what do supporters say they're going to do?
MATTINGLY: There's been no discussion exactly what people will do. And there's been some discussion that the monument may not be removed from the building at all for now. It may be removed from public view. And that would satisfy the court. The court says it just does not need to be on public display in the rotunda. It could be moved into a closet. It could be moved into someone's individual chamber.
So, if that's the case, it will not actually come out of the building, so there would be no opportunity for any kind of peaceful protest or any sort of civil disobedience, if that happens.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much, David Mattingly.
And still ahead tonight: It was the deadliest attack since the end of the major combat in Iraq. Tonight, there are new questions, though, about the possible role of Iraqi guards. CNN analyst Ken Pollack will join us.
And then, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison says the United States needs more young men and women with their boots on the ground in Iraq. And she will be our guest next.
And the recall race in California heats up. The Democratic Party changes its strategy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Investigators in Iraq today said that the bombing of the U.N.'s headquarters in Baghdad may have been an inside job. FBI agents said police are looking into the possibility that Iraqi guards with ties to Saddam Hussein's regime may have helped the terrorists.
Ben Wedeman reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Japanese diplomats come to place flowers at the bombed-out headquarters of the United Nations in Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to leave these flowers there for the victims of people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could bring it over there for you, if you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. OK.
WEDEMAN: With questions arising as to whether the bombers were somehow provided with critical intelligence by Iraqi staff linked to Saddam Hussein's intelligence services.
Under the old regime, Iraqis working with foreign groups or organizations were compelled to report to Iraqi intelligence. According to Bernard Kerik, senior American adviser to the Iraqi Interior Ministry, the focus now is on the Iraqi security guards who worked at the U.N. headquarters. Several of them are now being questioned.
At Friday prayers, Shiite clerics, many critical of the U.S. presence in Iraq, condemned the attack. In the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, Imam Abdel Hadi Deraji (ph) accused what he called outside hands of involvement in the bombing.
At a solemn ceremony at Baghdad Airport, a final farewell to Sergio Vieira de Mello, the senior U.N. official killed in Tuesday's bombing. His coffin was flown out on board an Air Force jet dispatched to Baghdad from his native Brazil. Following the bombing, other international and nongovernmental organizations are reviewing their presence here.
JOHN KILKENNY, CONCERN: We tend to try and keep the focus on our work. We don't take what we see as unnecessary risks. When we travel outside of Baghdad, we do so in convoy. And to be perfectly honest, we've faced very, very little hostility in any of our dealings with the Iraqi people.
WEDEMAN: Security across the city is tighter, but, for now, most organizations are staying put. (on camera): The U.N. has scaled down its staff here, but it too is staying put. U.N. officials say work will resume at a temporary headquarters as early as Saturday.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Two more U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq. One was shot dead while serving with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in Hillah, south of Baghdad. The other died in a fire at a training area in Baghdad; 135 soldiers have died in Iraq since President Bush declared the end of major combat on May 1, 61 of them from hostile fire.
The head of the Central Command, General John Abizaid, said that terrorism is now the No. 1 threat to the reconstruction of Iraq.
Joining me now is CNN analyst Ken Pollack. He is director of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He's also author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case For Invading Iraq."
Welcome back, Ken.
KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Hi, Jan. How are you?
HOPKINS: I'm fine.
How do you feel about what the general is saying about terrorism? Do you agree with him that terrorism is the No. 1 threat?
POLLACK: Well, I certainly think that it is part of the No. 1 threat.
The No. 1 threat that we're faced with in Iraq right now is the problem with the security. Security underlies everything. People have to understand that, if we can't get the security situation under control, it makes doing all of the economic and political reconstruction almost beside the point, because if people don't feel safe to go out to do -- to go about their daily business, there's no way to get the economy back on track. There's no way to start to rebuild a political system.
And to the extent that terrorism is part of the security problem, then, yes, I absolutely agree with that.
HOPKINS: And where is the terrorism coming from? Is it al Qaeda? Is it people from the Saddam regime, or where?
POLLACK: Well, one of the amazing things, Jan, is that we don't really know. It's kind of striking that U.S. Central Command and the other occupying powers are having a great deal of difficulty pinpointing exactly where the terrorism's coming from.
That suggests that U.S. intelligence and other coalition intelligence are having a great deal of difficult penetrating these groups, finding out from other Iraqis who these people are and how they're operating. But I think the best guess that we can make is that they seem to be coming from all of these different groups.
Some of it seems to be al Qaeda, or at least possibly al Qaeda. Certainly, some of it is from former members of the regime, former Special Republican Guards and other Saddam loyalists. Others are probably independent Islamic fundamentalists or independent Sunni tribesmen, all of whom have their own grievances against the United States.
HOPKINS: But the report today that it's possible that guards that were guarding the U.N. compound were actually involved in the terrorist attack is really quite frightening.
POLLACK: Well, it is.
But I'll be honest with you, Jan. It's something that we should expect. This is how these groups operate. The smart groups will go and they will try to infiltrate the security protection units of all of these different groups operating inside of Iraq, because, if you can get inside the security network, you are going to have a much greater chance of doing some real damage when you conduct one of these attacks.
Now, we also have to remember that one of the big problems that we have in Iraq right now is, it's very, very difficult to vet people. We have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Iraqis who the coalition and the United Nations are relying on to help them do their job. It's just not possible to vet every single one of those people and make sure that they don't have some ties to Saddam or that they haven't been approached by one of Saddam's loyalists or by an al Qaeda person or something like that who might be able to recruit them with the promise of money or other goods or by blackmailing them with threats to their family if they don't cooperate.
This is a really tough situation.
HOPKINS: And the U.N. deliberately decided to not have a compound that was closed to people. It was open. Is it likely, because of this experience, that now the U.N. compounds will be closed to Iraqis?
POLLACK: Well, that I think is one of the critical questions. And I'm still waiting to find out from the U.N. exactly what they're going to do.
You're absolutely right. The U.N. made a decision early on that they did not want to be seen as retreating into kind of a fortress- type setup, hunker down in the bunkers, the way that U.S. forces have been doing, because their feeling was that it was very important to show the Iraqi people that they were there to help the Iraqi people. They wanted to be open to the Iraqi people. They didn't want the Iraqis to feel like, if they were going up to the U.N., they were going up to an armed camp. And many people believed that that was a very positive approach and criticized the U.S. for not being more open to the Iraqis and embracing them and trying to help them get involved in the process. And so, if the U.N. does decide that, for security reasons, they're going to take this much more kind of a fortress-like approach, that, too, may hinder the reconstruction.
HOPKINS: Ken Pollack, thanks for joining us.
POLLACK: Thank you, Jan.
HOPKINS: And that brings us to tonight's poll question. What do you believe is the biggest threat in Iraq, Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda, or not enough coalition troops? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. And we'll bring you results later in the show.
Tonight's quote comes from a U.S. official in Baghdad who today made comments on the U.N. bombing: "You can call it resistance. You can call it guerrilla warfare. Bottom line is, it's a terrorist attack." That's from Bernard Kerik. He is the top U.S. security official in Iraq.
And when we come back: a dramatic shift in the California recall race. Another Democrat picks up two key endorsements. Bob Franken will report.
And then, "Heroes," a new feature dedicated to the men and women of the armed forces as they return from defending this country. Casey Wian will have that story.
And an unmatched American classic, Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn," coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: We have new developments tonight in the California recall race. Arnold Schwarzenegger courted small-business owners, while picking up a key endorsement. State Democrats endorsed Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante. And Governor Gray Davis kept campaigning, trying to hold on to his job.
Bob Franken's keeping score in Los Angeles.
Bob, where do we stand tonight?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it depends, Jan, on the moment that you're keeping the score.
This is the latest. First of all, there's a new "L.A. Times" poll that's about to come out which shows that 50 percent overall of likely voters say they would support a recall; 45 percent say they would not support a recall. Now, what's interesting about that is that there's another reliable poll that shows that 58 percent support the recall, with 40 percent of the Democrats saying they would.
That same poll, by the way, has Arnold Schwarzenegger ahead of Gray Davis 23 percent to 18 percent, which is different from a poll of about a week ago, when those figures were reversed. Now, having said all that, Arnold Schwarzenegger was out in Huntington Beach, flexing his name-recognition muscle today, walking among the voters, taking advantage of all the star power that he brings to the race, aware of the fact that the conservative Lincoln Group, the Lincoln Club of Orange County, a conservative group, has come out in support of Schwarzenegger and said that the other two primary candidates, Tom McClintock and Bill Simon, should pull out of the race.
It's a subject that Schwarzenegger approached very delicately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone has to make their own decision. These are all people that I respect. These are all people that are Republicans, that they have worked very hard. And, at one point or the other, they have to make the decision. I cannot make it for them. Obviously, mathematically speaking, it's wiser to only have one candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Meanwhile, of course, Governor Gray Davis has his problems. And he was out working some Hispanic groups also today. And he was in the San Diego area. This is a man who has now seen some of his fellow Democrats defy his wishes and oppose his recall at the same time they're supporting Democrat Cruz Bustamante, the lieutenant governor, in case the recall succeeds.
Now, in his comments, Gray Davis presented an unusual side for him. The governor was actually -- get this -- feisty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Now, people say, well, we have a deficit. We had a surplus before. Let's get rid of this guy.
Well, if that's going to be the standard, then 46 other governors should be recalled, because they had surpluses and now they have deficits. And the president of the United States, who I don't suggest we recall, but if that's the standard, we had $1 trillion worth of surpluses and now we have a $500 billion recall. So if you want to recall me, let's recall everybody, if that's the standard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Well, recall everybody is not exactly the issue that's on the ballot on October 7, Jan. It's whether to recall Gray Davis. And he clearly has an uphill battle -- Jan.
HOPKINS: That's for sure. Bob Franken in Los Angeles, thanks.
The Sobig computer virus may have struck "The New York Times." The newspaper shut down the computer systems at its Manhattan headquarters today. "The Times" told CNN its staff was looking into virus matters. The computers were restarted. And the paper plans to publish an edition tomorrow.
There were warnings that the Sobig virus would launch a major attack on systems worldwide today. But computer experts say that attack did not happen.
A tragedy tonight in Brazil. At least 16 people were killed, several others injured, when an unmanned rocket exploded on its launch pad. The rocket was being prepared for a launch next week. Its engine blew up. This is Brazil's third failed attempt to send a satellite into space.
Coming up: the "Shaky Foundations" of telecommunications shows through in times of trouble, and Peter Viles reports.
And then, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison says more soldiers and Marines are needed on the ground in Iraq. And she'll be our guest coming up.
And from the Sobig computer virus to hopes for an economic recovery, the editors of the nation's top business magazines join us for our weekly "Editors Circle."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: All this week, we've been looking at the cracks in America's infrastructure. Tonight, we continue this series of special with a look at the nation's telecommunications system. Increasingly, Americans are choosing wireless telephones because of their portability.
But, as Peter Viles reports, the wireless system failed a big test last week here in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SIREN BLARING)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The blackout of 2003. A major test of America's infrastructure, and in the early hours wireless phones failed the test. Calls simply didn't go through in part because power was lost at cell towers. In part because of overwhelming volume.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: We really have to do something about that, encourage these companies -- I don't know if we can force them, but certainly do everything we can to improve communications.
VILES: Pay phones worked so well during the blackout that Verizon put out a press release bragging that its pay phones were superheroes. But pay phone service is heavily regulated. Wireless service is not. And wireless networks are not built to handle the huge volume of calls that emergencies generate.
JANEE BRIESEMEISTER, CONSUMERS UNION: The attitude among federal regulators is let the market take care of it. But we see that the market doesn't take care of these public interest and public safety issues left on its own.
VILES: The wireless industry makes no apologies, saying it doesn't make financial sense to build massive extra capacity for emergencies.
KENNETH MEYERS, CEO US CELLULAR: In order to have four times the capacity you've got to have four times the investment, and I don't think the consumers are willing to pay four times the price for the same phone call.
VILES: There are other weaknesses in the wireless system. The e-911 system, intended to help emergency workers locate emergency 911 callers on cell phones, is a work in progress and progressing very slowly. More worrisome, the wireless spectrum is so clogged it sometimes interferes with radios used by emergency workers.
RANDY BRUEGMAN, PRES. INTERNATIONAL ASSN. OF FIRE CHIEFS: It doesn't have to be a major building fire or terrorist event or natural disaster. It can be you've dialed 911 and your wife's having a significant medical event and the fire department arrives there first and they can't communicate to the ambulance that's responding in.
VILES (on camera): The government watches land line service like a hawk. If a phone company has a major outage, they have to report it to the government within two hours. There's no such requirement to report an outage of wireless service, although in the case of this recent blackout the government is investigating what happened to wireless service. Peter Viles, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: And a reminder to vote in tonight's poll: what do you believe is the biggest threat in Iraq? Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda, or not enough coalition troops? Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll bring you results a little later in the show.
Still to come -- American troops returning from the front lines. We begin a special feature tonight on the nation's heroes. Casey Wian will have our story from Joshua Tree, California.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison believes the United States does not have enough active duty members in the army and marines for the post-September 11 era. She's in the Middle East as part of a congressional delegation. She toured military operations in Iraq. Senator Hutchison joined Lou Dobbs earlier from Islamabad, and he asked her why she thinks more troops are needed in the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: Well, I do think that because there have been these unsettling terrorist acts that we need to make sure that we are covered and that we get security in hand. Our people believe that there are terrorists coming from other country, that they are really starting these terrorist acts to stop progress, to stop the ability for us to succeed to help the Iraqi people.
So I think we probably do need more troops. And I know that the Pentagon is considering that. And I think we need border patrol. We need to stop the influx of terrorists from outside.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Are you disappointed, Senator, that not more has been done in the time since major combat operations ended on the first of May, that the process of rebuilding Iraq hasn't gained traction?
HUTCHISON: I have to say, Lou, that we got a slow start. I think anyone would agree that we did. We had some mishaps in the early stages.
But we are, I think, on the right track. We're bringing more infrastructure in, we're bringing more civil engineers in and I think we will be successful. But I think the Iraqi police force, of which there are now 40,000 -- we started with zero -- will be necessary to try to catch people who are trying to set us back. I think the bombing of the U.N. was an effort to set us back.
DOBBS: And let's turn to the issue of security itself. U.S. troops there, after accomplishing so much in a remarkable period of time, and overthrowing the regime of Saddam Hussein, now are in peril of their lives. The issue for many it would seem is U.S. military presence is being challenged in the Middle East. How many troops will it take to make certain that that does not take place, in your judgment?
HUTCHISON: First of all, I think that the Iraqi people want us to be there. I think they would be more upset if we said we were leaving. We are not going to cut and run. We are going to stay there until they're stabilized.
But I do think having an international presence, having others come in would be the right signal for the Iraqi people, the right signal for the whole Middle East, and certainly the right thing for America and Great Britain, who have carried really the major share of this burden so far.
DOBBS: Senator, do you believe the United States should have a permanent presence in Iraq?
HUTCHISON: I do not foresee a permanent presence. I do think we are going to keep the commitment we have made to the Iraqi people. And I think they were concerned that we might not. I think that was one of the problems we had early on with getting intelligence from the Iraqi people. They thought we might leave them again, as they believe happened 10 years ago. We are going to stay there as long as it takes, but we have no intention and don't wish to be there permanently.
We want the Iraqi people to govern themselves, to have their own security force. They're now starting the army again and they are looking to put 12,000 people on in the first brigade of an army. So as soon as they are up and they feel comfortable that they are secure, then of course we want to leave the country to be governed by Iraqi people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Tonight we begin a new recurring feature. We call it "Heroes". It's a look at the challenges faced by the men and women at the United States military who are returning from combat.
We begin tonight with Chris Pappas, a Marine Corp who is just returning to civilian life. Casey Wian has his story from Joshua Tree, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Corporal Chris Pappas was one of the first marines in Iraq when the U.S. invasion began in march.
COR. CHRIS PAPPAS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Front line, first in, first across the border. The only people ahead of us were tanks. WIAN: As a demolition expert, he blew up bridges, buildings, any thing in the way of the 3rd battallion, 7th marines.
PAPPAS: There's things I saw that I'll never forget. I had a job to do. I did it. It's not like I brag about it, but I did it and I came back.
WIAN: He came back to the marine base in Twenty-Nine Palms, California in June, because his 4 year enlistment was ending.
PAPPAS: It took some time to get switched back in it. It was just like, you know, quiet here, nobody shooting. You know, you go to sleep at night and all you hear are the birds chirps.
WIAN: After 5 months in the deserts of Kuwait and Iraq, Pappas is now in the California desert, facing a transition to the civilian world as a changed man. The most obvious change, weight loss.
PAPPAS: I left at what, 185. I came back at 142.
WIAN: The woman he returned to wasn't sure what to expect.
MELINDA RODERICK, GIRLFRIEND: He was so skinny and I was just nervous, because he'd been gone, you know. And it's like all these bubbling, weird feelings to a rush. I guess you could say combat taught him a few life altering lessons. He's more of a man. He's more grounded. He sees both sides of the coin.
WIAN: In a short time, he's moved from hunting Iraqi soldiers to job hunting. He sees plenty of civilian opportunities, perhaps with a police bomb squad or in the construction industry, maybe even a pyrotechnic expert for movie studios.
For now he's applying to be a federal airport screener and preparing for a tight job market .
PAPPAS: The rank don't go with you. Because I'm a corporal and NCO I can give orders, I can delegate authority, and I go out in the civilian world back on the bottom again. I've got to get back up there.
WIAN: Pappas says he feels a sense of accomplishment after serving in Iraq, but these days often avoids news of what's happening there now. He has other priorities.
PAPPAS: More interested in this whole California governor race right now. It pertains to my future. What happens in Iraq does not.
WIAN: His future also includes planning a wedding next year.
Casey Wian, CNN, Joshua Tree, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Tonight's thought is on battle. "It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it." That is from General Douglas MacArthur.
Coming up, so much for the summer doldrums. From the blackout to the most aggressive computer virus ever to hit cyberspace, this summer has been anything but dull. The editors of the nation's top business magazines join us next for more on what lies ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: A new development tonight in the growing controversy over the Ten Commandments monument in a state building in Alabama. In the last few minutes, CNN has learned that Chief Justice Roy Moore has been suspended. Moore will be suspended pending the outcome of an ethics complaint for defying a federal court order to remove the monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court.
From the controversy in Alabama to the worst blackout in the nation's history and the fastest and most aggressive computer virus yet. Joining us now for more on these and other stories, the editors of the nation's leading business magazines.
Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek."
Bill Powell, senior international editor of "Fortune."
And Paul Maidment. He is the executive editor of "Forbes."
Thank you all for joining us.
And let's start with this news in Alabama. What is your reaction?
MARK MORRISON, "BUSINESSWEEK": Well, I think it's probably good news. I mean, for the legal system to have any credibility you can't have a judge fouting (sic) the orders of the court. And so you know, I think this was maybe inevitable and probably a good result.
HOPKINS: Bill?
BILL POWELL, "FORTUNE" I agree with Mark. Inevitable. We are a nation of laws and not men. He was defying not only the federal court order but also his fellow colleagues on the Alabama Supreme Court. I think this was a given that this was going to happen.
HOPKINS: Any disagreement, Paul?
PAUL MAIDMENT, "FORBES": Not on that particular point, although I wonder if this whole story would be played up as much as it is were it not for events happening in other places in the world, where you see the battle, you know, obviously between theocracy and rationalism in the Middle East, the contrast between the Islamic world and the Christian world. So maybe this story is playing into a sensibility there which is giving it an undue amount of prominence.
HOPKINS: Interesting.
We have a lot of news in the Middle East and in Iraq, talk that terrorism is the big that terrorism is the biggest destabilizing force in Iraq. Would you all agree with that, that we really are dealing with terrorism at this point in Iraq? Bill maybe.
POWELL: Yes, absolutely. I spent a month in Iraq, just came back about two weeks ago.
I think the -- one of the mistakes that the administration made was President Bush's, frankly, trip to the aircraft carrier, which sent a message to the American people that the war was over. Whatever the language was, it said the war was over.
Well, it's not. And it is a guerrilla war, and indeed, it's terrorism. And it is going to need to be rooted out, you know, tooth and nail. And that is going to take a long time. It's going to take more troops. And the work has really only just begun. That's the message that the administration seems to be should be delivering.
HOPKINS: Bill (sic)?
MORRISON: Yes. And it's been very consistent on that message except that when things have gone fairly well they've given into the temptation, as Bill suggests, to get expectations ahead of where we are. And it is going to be a long, long process. And of course, this week we've got another big setback with the road map and -- in the Middle East process. And I don't know how you get that back on track. I mean, it seems like that is inevitably going to get worse before it gets better.
HOPKINS: Paul, do you think that the Middle East road map is disintegrated or at least off course at this point?
MAIDMENT: It's certainly in a great deal of trouble. I mean, one of the problems with the region is that you've got two nations wanting the same piece of land. So you've either got to resolve it, this conflict, which is what the road map is trying to do, or you have a war, which seems to be the point we're at at the moment.
I don't think that the Sharon government was ever really committed to the road map at all. I think they were happy to go along with it because if it worked that was fine, they got the peace it wanted. But they never believed it would. They never believed that the extremists could be shut down on the Palestinian side. And it seems that those fears have been justified.
HOPKINS: Let's go back to what happened last week. We weren't able to do a roundtable last week because of the blackout in New York. Have we learned anything from this situation, or is it still kind of evolving?
MORRISON: Well, they're still trying to get some answers just in terms of what happened. We have put a spotlight again, gotten a wake- up call that the system is fragile, particularly the transmission system has been -- has gotten far too little attention over recent years as parts of the energy industry have gone to deregulation. So I think there are a lost good ideas for starting to fix that and it's actually going to turn out to be a positive economic event because there's going to be investment in that grid and also in backup systems for companies and probably even television networks.
HOPKINS: Well, and we heard from Peter Viles, cell phones didn't work in New York. And the only way to resolve that is also more spending on infrastructure. I mean, is that the lesson that you see as well?
MAIDMENT: No, I think we're in danger of repeating a mistake here. And just throwing money at the grid as such isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do, and it won't necessarily guarantee we won't have a repeat.
The mistake that we risk completely again is that the ability of the grid to transmit power has far outstripped our ability to control and monitor that. I mean, the networks, the information networks behind the grid, utility by utility, they don't talk to each other. I mean, if Con Ed in New York, for example, had been able to monitor in real time the FirstEnergy, it might have been able to do something and not get hit with this tsunami wave of demand. The software controls that run those systems are antiquated.
As I say, the networks don't talk to each other. And for a relatively small amount of investment in those information networks -- and we're talking here low billions of dollars for a trillion-dollar grid, I think we as consumers, we're the ones that are going to end up paying for this, are going to get far get value for our money by attacking smarts behind the system rather then the grid itself.
HOPKINS: You know, it's also interesting, we are really seeing signs that the economy is coming along, which means more demand for electricity, higher gas prices, which we're already seeing. What else as a result of the stronger economy? Mark, you mentioned it earlier.
MORRISON: Well, the market obviously is doing extremely well. And even the jobs picture has begun to show a little bit of stabilizing. It's too soon to say that it's improving. But -- and that's going to be a lagging factor. But all in all, I mean, the consumer is hanging in there amazingly, given what we've seen. So has the market.
And I think it says that we're going to have some -- you know, we keep hearing the FET and a lot of business people, too, sort of low ball what to expect. I think we're going to get some positive surprises. 5 percent type growth rates over the next few quarters.
HOPKINS: I think that's going to have to be the final word. A very positive note to end on. Mark Morrison and Bill Powell and Paul Maidment. Thank you all.
And when we return, we'll have the results of tonight's poll, plus a positive week for stocks. Christine Romans will have the markets for us.
And many of you wrote in about the Ten Commandments monument dispute. We'll share some of your thoughts when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: The results of tonight's poll question. What do you believe is the biggest threat in Iraq? 25 percent of you said Saddam loyalists. 18 percent said al Qaeda. 57 percent said not enough coalition troops.
On Wall Street today stocks closed lower, erasing early gains after good news from Intel though. The Dow did lose 75 points. The Nasdaq fell 12. The S&P 500 dropped 10. Christine Romans joins us with more on the week. And the week was actually good.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it wasn't bad but the market today was about two stocks: it was about Intel and Schering- Plough. Intel raised its revenue targets. The stock roared as much as 10 percent higher, and in the end Intel was up 4 percent and the broader market was in retreat.
And ugly news from Schering-Plough, taking that stock down to the lowest price since 1996. Its new CEO Fred Hassan (ph) warned about 2004, will slash the dividend, and cut another 1,000 jobs. Jan, some analysts were absolutely confounded that this new CEO was not on the company conference call after that news. He's been on the job 100 days now, and analysts had plenty of questions for him.
Now, the Dow and the S&P 500, as you said, were a fraction higher for the week. The Nasdaq had its best weekly gain in more than a month. And for the Dow it was the 11 higher week in 13. And some news tonight, Jan, from Freddie Mac. Its general counsel and CEO are stepping down, as many had expected, under fire from regulators. We'll watch that one on Monday.
HOPKINS: Thanks. Christine Romans.
And now for a look at some of your thoughts. Richard from Louisiana wrote in to say, "Not all Americans believe in the Ten Commandments. I myself do believe in the Ten Commandments, but don't believe in forcing my beliefs on those who don't."
And Susanne of California wrote, "The answer is in 5 simple words: separation of church and state. Religious doctrine has no place in state or federal property."
And Carol of Georgia wrote, "Worship at the court house? Fair is fair, hold court in the sanctuary. The choir loft is perfect for a jury box."
And James of Arkansas asks, "If Alabama should remove the Ten Commandments than shouldn't the federal government have "In God We Trust" removed from U.S. currency."
Tom Evan of California writes, "Alabama justice Moore is a perfect example of why we need strict separation of church and state."
We love hearing from you. You can send us an e-mail at loudobbs@CNN.com.
And finally tonight, we revisit our American classics series to bring you Huckleberry Finn. Mark twain's masterpiece, "The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn," published in 1824, has become one of America's classic novels. We traveled to the middle of the country to see just how much Huck Finn has influenced American culture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS (voice-over): It all started on the Mississippi River. Here in the town of Hannibal, Missouri. The boyhood home of author Mark Twain and the fictional home of characters Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. They have captured the imagination of artists from Norman Rockwell to some of the country's best-known writers.
HENRY SWEETS, DIR. MARK TWAIN MUSEUM: Even people like Ernest Hemingway said that all American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain, "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn."
HOPKINS: Published in 1885, Huck Finn broke all literary traditions. Twain wrote in the first person from the perspective of Huck, an uneducated boy. He begins the book "You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer." Huck finn goes on to capture the spirit of adventure in the new west.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just remember it's a story about an adventurous boy and he -- you know, he runs away and he kills a pig. So his family thinks he's dead. He just goes off and sets off to kind of find out about himself.
HOPKINS: At the time it was published 20 years after the civil war, America was trying to redefine itself as well. The real adventures of Huck Finn took place on a raft on the Mississippi River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he white or black?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's white. HOPKINS: Huck's partner on the river is an escaped slave named Jim. Their relationship is seen here in the 1993 Disney movie, challenged an America that was still dealing with racism.
SHELLEY FISHER FISHKIN, ENGLISH DEPT. STANFORD UNIV.: It turns out that the difficulty of making freedom a reality would challenge us well into the 20th century and the 21st century. Racism is a really tough nut to crack. It's a very, very difficult problem to eradicate.
HOPKINS: Huck Finn strikes other chords.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember Huck Finn and getting in trouble as the boy that was the instigator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was kind of adventuresome. The pioneer era.
HOPKINS: Through the years tens of millions of copies of Huck Finn have been sold. Many to high school students, required to read the book for school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was probably one of the first experiences I had learning a little bit about slavery outside of history class and some of the feelings and how a young boy dealt with it.
HOPKINS: The book is still controversial. It has made the top 10 list of most challenged books most every year in the last decade. Kim Ahrens has taught Huck Finn to juniors at Hannibal High School for 11 years.
KIN AHRENS, HIGH SCHOOL ENGLISH TEACHER: Huck is about loyalty. Huck is about friendship. Huck is about the responsibility that I have to everyone else and that all of my students have to each other and to me and I to them. So it's about a lot of these life issues that our students are facing today.
HOPKINS: The book and its message stretch beyond the classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Look out for me oh mighty water.
HOPKINS: Besides the movie version Huck Finn was translated as a play. "Big River" is currently running on Broadway for both the hearing and hearing impaired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (singing): Come on back and ride look out for me oh, mighty water
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: And as Huck Finn said in the last line of the Mark Twain classic, "it's about time to light out for the territories."
that's our show tonight. Thanks for joining us. Monday we begin our series of Special Reports on education. We look at why America's schools aren't making the grade. Plus Bill Simon, California gubernatorial candidate, joins us. For all of us here, good night from New York. Have a great weekend. "LIVE FROM THE HEADLINES" with Daryn Kagan is next.
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JAN HOPKINS, CNN ANCHOR: Police look for a man seen in a pickup truck near some of the sniper shootings in West Virginia. The FBI calls for the public's help.
The confrontation over the Ten Commandments monument in Alabama. State officials may be planning to move the monument in the next few days.
Nearly 150,000 U.S. troops are fighting in Iraq. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison has just visited the country and will tell us why she believes even more troops are necessary.
And "Heroes," the first in a series of features about service men and women coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan; tonight, the challenge of returning to civilian life.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, August 22. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Jan Hopkins.
Good evening.
Tonight: uncompromising talk from President Bush about the war on terror. The president said that al Qaeda supporters are entering Iraq because they cannot stand the thought of a free society in the Middle East. He also said radical Palestinians are carrying out terrorist attacks against Israel for the sake of killing.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the president and reports from Burbank, Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Bush in no uncertain terms admitted to and even called for additional help in stabilizing Iraq.
Earlier today, President Bush said that the administration needs and welcomes more foreign troops inside of the country. The president also confirmed that the administration is now discussing another U.N. Security Council resolution to attract additional countries to add forces or aides inside of that country. The president even hinted on what their role might be.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those who hate freedom destroy the infrastructures that we've been improving. It's part of their strategy. So we'll get more people guarding that. And in the meantime -- and that will help free up our hunter teams.
MALVEAUX: And on the Middle East, the president took a giant leap forward in punishing Hamas for the deadly attack that occurred in Israel on Tuesday, killing 20 people, the president announcing that he has directed the Treasury Department to freeze the assets of six top Hamas leaders, as well as the assets of five nongovernmental organizations believed to contribute financially to Hamas, the president releasing a written statement in which he said -- and I'm quoting here -- "'by claiming responsibility for the despicable act of terror on August 19, Hamas has reaffirmed that it is a terrorist organization committed to violence against Israelis and to undermining progress toward peace between Israel and the Palestinian people."
The significance of this is that the administration is now signaling that it is not making a distinction between the political as well as the military extremist wing of Hamas, that all of its leaders are responsible for this terrorist attack.
Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Burbank, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: As the road map to peace faces one of its toughest challenges, there was anger in the streets in the Middle East today. About 50,000 Palestinians chanted angry slogans during the funeral of a Hamas leader killed by Israel. A senior Israeli official said that attack was only the beginning. Later, Israeli troops killed a radical Islamist in a hospital on the West Bank.
Michael Holmes reports from Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tens of thousands of Palestinians poured onto the hot, narrow streets of Gaza City to join in the funeral procession for Ismail Abu Shanab, the Hamas leader killed in an Israeli missile strike on Thursday, along with two of his bodyguards.
He is seen by many Palestinians and independent observers as something of a moderate voice within the Hamas organization. But, to Israel, he was involved in terrorism. He had blood on his hands, according to Israeli government spokesmen, and indeed had been involved in the planning and execution of the suicide bus bombing that occurred in west Jerusalem earlier in the week and which led to his death on the streets of Gaza.
All militant groups were represented, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. They were all in the procession, as it carried for four hours from the hospital morgues to the family home to a mosque. During the procession, there was gunfire in the air, a traditional Palestinian action during such funeral processions, and there was plenty of anger. The loudspeakers on tops of vans were urging Hamas supporters to join in the fight against Israel.
With the cease-fire now dead, people in Israel are on high alert, security services and ordinary civilians as well. And here in the Gaza Strip, Hamas is also on alert, fearing another strike at its leadership. Israel says the Palestinian Authority did not act. It will not hesitate to do so.
Michael Holmes, CNN, Gaza City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: In this country, a senior FBI agent today called for the public's help in the search for a sniper who has killed three people in West Virginia.
Police have released a sketch of a man who was seen in a dark pickup truck near two of the shootings. Investigators also want to speak to a tall, thin man who may have seen some of the attacks.
Maria Hinojosa has our report from Charleston, West Virginia -- Maria.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jan, you know, there are a lot of mixed emotions here in Charleston, West Virginia, a lot of people still very much afraid, very concerned that this sniper is still on the loose.
But there are others who are saying that they are not going to let this person scare them into staying indoors, but all of the attention today focused on this composite sketch that was released last night and hit the front page of the papers this morning. Here in town, everyone was paying attention to this. Authorities today said to us in a press conference that this is a person that they want to speak to who was located in a couple of these shootings.
They said that they are reaching out to the public to -- quote -- "clarify facts and identify more witnesses." But they emphasized that this man is not a suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH MCCABE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: We released a sketch of an individual that we are interested in talking to. This individual was present at the August 14 shooting at the Go-Mart convenience store located at 3399 U.S. Route 60 in Cedar Grove. We would like to identify this person. I encourage anyone with information to call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HINOJOSA: Now, earlier today, one week and one day after the last deadly shooting here in Charleston, West Virginia, the ATF recreating the scene of one of these crimes.
Now, they were doing this with a very high-tech process using laser teams. They had people out there shooting from inside a pickup truck that they say was located at one of these shootings. They had someone sitting inside this truck, actually positioning himself as if he was shooting a .22-caliber gun in different positions to determine, was he inside the truck was, was he outside the truck, was he sitting or standing inside the truck?
But the interesting thing, Jan, is that this is a state where you are allowed to carry a loaded and concealed weapon. And today, we spoke with one man who had a message for the shooter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CALVIN ARMSTEAD, WEST VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Somebody might get him without -- before he gets someone else. He has to kind of start watching his back, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HINOJOSA: A lot of fear, a lot of frustration, a lot of concern, a lot of people who want this person caught, so they can avoid another deadly tragedy -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Maria, though, a lot of response to that sketch, right? People are calling in with identifications and information.
HINOJOSA: Absolutely.
They say that they have been flooded with calls, but they're saying that they are screening these calls very carefully. But, interestingly, Jan, we went to some place where we were earlier today, in that diner, and there were people there who said they thought that they knew who this person was. They just couldn't place his name, place where they knew him, but they said that they had thought that they had seen him. So the FBI and the task force here are saying that they will take all of these calls, research them very clearly, and then move forward -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Maria Hinojosa, in Charleston, West Virginia.
And in Alabama tonight, the stage is set for a dramatic confrontation over a granite monument of the Ten Commandments. Attorneys for those demanding its removal from a state building said, state officials are planning to move the monument. But supporters of the monument say that they will block any attempt to take it away.
David Mattingly joins us live from Montgomery, Alabama -- David.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The crowd behind me right now joining in another round of the Lord's Prayer.
They have been going through a flurry of activity in the last few minutes, people trying to track down rumors that Judge Roy Moore has been temporarily suspended from the bench. At this point, there is no confirmation on that. In fact, a spokesman for Justice Moore came down just a few moments ago and said that the justice has not been notified of this.
In fact, our contacts have not been notified of this either. Speaking to the plaintiffs in this case, who raised the question with the Alabama Judicial Board of Review, they -- the people who lodged the complaint of possible judicial misconduct on the part of Justice Moore say they have not heard anything about this yet.
So, again, a great deal of concern among the supporters for Justice Moore here. They are maintaining their vigil, keeping an eye on the monument. It is still in the building now almost two complete days after the federal deadline passed in which a federal judge said it had to be removed. The state of Alabama got some good news today. They were told that the threat of a fine, a $5,000-a-day fine, is now on hold.
The plaintiffs in this case say they are satisfied that the state is moving forward as it should right now to remove that monument. And, at this point, there is no threat of that $5,000-a-day fine, but, again, a great deal of concern rippling through this crowd with those rumors that Justice Moore has been suspended from the bench as the chief justice of the Alabama state Supreme Court.
He has been -- he did have to go -- his case -- before the Judicial Board of Review today. And it's that board that acts sort of as a grand jury. They listen to complaints of judicial misconduct. And if they decide there's enough evidence, then they will send it to a judicial court to hear those findings. And if that is the case, then the judge is suspended.
And that board then, that court, does have the authority, if he is found guilty of misconduct, to remove him completely from the bench, so, again, a great deal of concern among his supporters here. And they continue their vigil of the -- to keep an eye on the monument of the Ten Commandments, and everyone waiting, just as they have for the last two days, just to see what happens next -- back to you.
HOPKINS: David, if in fact there's a move to remove the monument, what do supporters say they're going to do?
MATTINGLY: There's been no discussion exactly what people will do. And there's been some discussion that the monument may not be removed from the building at all for now. It may be removed from public view. And that would satisfy the court. The court says it just does not need to be on public display in the rotunda. It could be moved into a closet. It could be moved into someone's individual chamber.
So, if that's the case, it will not actually come out of the building, so there would be no opportunity for any kind of peaceful protest or any sort of civil disobedience, if that happens.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much, David Mattingly.
And still ahead tonight: It was the deadliest attack since the end of the major combat in Iraq. Tonight, there are new questions, though, about the possible role of Iraqi guards. CNN analyst Ken Pollack will join us.
And then, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison says the United States needs more young men and women with their boots on the ground in Iraq. And she will be our guest next.
And the recall race in California heats up. The Democratic Party changes its strategy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Investigators in Iraq today said that the bombing of the U.N.'s headquarters in Baghdad may have been an inside job. FBI agents said police are looking into the possibility that Iraqi guards with ties to Saddam Hussein's regime may have helped the terrorists.
Ben Wedeman reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Japanese diplomats come to place flowers at the bombed-out headquarters of the United Nations in Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to leave these flowers there for the victims of people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could bring it over there for you, if you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. OK.
WEDEMAN: With questions arising as to whether the bombers were somehow provided with critical intelligence by Iraqi staff linked to Saddam Hussein's intelligence services.
Under the old regime, Iraqis working with foreign groups or organizations were compelled to report to Iraqi intelligence. According to Bernard Kerik, senior American adviser to the Iraqi Interior Ministry, the focus now is on the Iraqi security guards who worked at the U.N. headquarters. Several of them are now being questioned.
At Friday prayers, Shiite clerics, many critical of the U.S. presence in Iraq, condemned the attack. In the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, Imam Abdel Hadi Deraji (ph) accused what he called outside hands of involvement in the bombing.
At a solemn ceremony at Baghdad Airport, a final farewell to Sergio Vieira de Mello, the senior U.N. official killed in Tuesday's bombing. His coffin was flown out on board an Air Force jet dispatched to Baghdad from his native Brazil. Following the bombing, other international and nongovernmental organizations are reviewing their presence here.
JOHN KILKENNY, CONCERN: We tend to try and keep the focus on our work. We don't take what we see as unnecessary risks. When we travel outside of Baghdad, we do so in convoy. And to be perfectly honest, we've faced very, very little hostility in any of our dealings with the Iraqi people.
WEDEMAN: Security across the city is tighter, but, for now, most organizations are staying put. (on camera): The U.N. has scaled down its staff here, but it too is staying put. U.N. officials say work will resume at a temporary headquarters as early as Saturday.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Two more U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq. One was shot dead while serving with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in Hillah, south of Baghdad. The other died in a fire at a training area in Baghdad; 135 soldiers have died in Iraq since President Bush declared the end of major combat on May 1, 61 of them from hostile fire.
The head of the Central Command, General John Abizaid, said that terrorism is now the No. 1 threat to the reconstruction of Iraq.
Joining me now is CNN analyst Ken Pollack. He is director of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He's also author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case For Invading Iraq."
Welcome back, Ken.
KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Hi, Jan. How are you?
HOPKINS: I'm fine.
How do you feel about what the general is saying about terrorism? Do you agree with him that terrorism is the No. 1 threat?
POLLACK: Well, I certainly think that it is part of the No. 1 threat.
The No. 1 threat that we're faced with in Iraq right now is the problem with the security. Security underlies everything. People have to understand that, if we can't get the security situation under control, it makes doing all of the economic and political reconstruction almost beside the point, because if people don't feel safe to go out to do -- to go about their daily business, there's no way to get the economy back on track. There's no way to start to rebuild a political system.
And to the extent that terrorism is part of the security problem, then, yes, I absolutely agree with that.
HOPKINS: And where is the terrorism coming from? Is it al Qaeda? Is it people from the Saddam regime, or where?
POLLACK: Well, one of the amazing things, Jan, is that we don't really know. It's kind of striking that U.S. Central Command and the other occupying powers are having a great deal of difficulty pinpointing exactly where the terrorism's coming from.
That suggests that U.S. intelligence and other coalition intelligence are having a great deal of difficult penetrating these groups, finding out from other Iraqis who these people are and how they're operating. But I think the best guess that we can make is that they seem to be coming from all of these different groups.
Some of it seems to be al Qaeda, or at least possibly al Qaeda. Certainly, some of it is from former members of the regime, former Special Republican Guards and other Saddam loyalists. Others are probably independent Islamic fundamentalists or independent Sunni tribesmen, all of whom have their own grievances against the United States.
HOPKINS: But the report today that it's possible that guards that were guarding the U.N. compound were actually involved in the terrorist attack is really quite frightening.
POLLACK: Well, it is.
But I'll be honest with you, Jan. It's something that we should expect. This is how these groups operate. The smart groups will go and they will try to infiltrate the security protection units of all of these different groups operating inside of Iraq, because, if you can get inside the security network, you are going to have a much greater chance of doing some real damage when you conduct one of these attacks.
Now, we also have to remember that one of the big problems that we have in Iraq right now is, it's very, very difficult to vet people. We have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Iraqis who the coalition and the United Nations are relying on to help them do their job. It's just not possible to vet every single one of those people and make sure that they don't have some ties to Saddam or that they haven't been approached by one of Saddam's loyalists or by an al Qaeda person or something like that who might be able to recruit them with the promise of money or other goods or by blackmailing them with threats to their family if they don't cooperate.
This is a really tough situation.
HOPKINS: And the U.N. deliberately decided to not have a compound that was closed to people. It was open. Is it likely, because of this experience, that now the U.N. compounds will be closed to Iraqis?
POLLACK: Well, that I think is one of the critical questions. And I'm still waiting to find out from the U.N. exactly what they're going to do.
You're absolutely right. The U.N. made a decision early on that they did not want to be seen as retreating into kind of a fortress- type setup, hunker down in the bunkers, the way that U.S. forces have been doing, because their feeling was that it was very important to show the Iraqi people that they were there to help the Iraqi people. They wanted to be open to the Iraqi people. They didn't want the Iraqis to feel like, if they were going up to the U.N., they were going up to an armed camp. And many people believed that that was a very positive approach and criticized the U.S. for not being more open to the Iraqis and embracing them and trying to help them get involved in the process. And so, if the U.N. does decide that, for security reasons, they're going to take this much more kind of a fortress-like approach, that, too, may hinder the reconstruction.
HOPKINS: Ken Pollack, thanks for joining us.
POLLACK: Thank you, Jan.
HOPKINS: And that brings us to tonight's poll question. What do you believe is the biggest threat in Iraq, Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda, or not enough coalition troops? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. And we'll bring you results later in the show.
Tonight's quote comes from a U.S. official in Baghdad who today made comments on the U.N. bombing: "You can call it resistance. You can call it guerrilla warfare. Bottom line is, it's a terrorist attack." That's from Bernard Kerik. He is the top U.S. security official in Iraq.
And when we come back: a dramatic shift in the California recall race. Another Democrat picks up two key endorsements. Bob Franken will report.
And then, "Heroes," a new feature dedicated to the men and women of the armed forces as they return from defending this country. Casey Wian will have that story.
And an unmatched American classic, Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn," coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: We have new developments tonight in the California recall race. Arnold Schwarzenegger courted small-business owners, while picking up a key endorsement. State Democrats endorsed Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante. And Governor Gray Davis kept campaigning, trying to hold on to his job.
Bob Franken's keeping score in Los Angeles.
Bob, where do we stand tonight?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it depends, Jan, on the moment that you're keeping the score.
This is the latest. First of all, there's a new "L.A. Times" poll that's about to come out which shows that 50 percent overall of likely voters say they would support a recall; 45 percent say they would not support a recall. Now, what's interesting about that is that there's another reliable poll that shows that 58 percent support the recall, with 40 percent of the Democrats saying they would.
That same poll, by the way, has Arnold Schwarzenegger ahead of Gray Davis 23 percent to 18 percent, which is different from a poll of about a week ago, when those figures were reversed. Now, having said all that, Arnold Schwarzenegger was out in Huntington Beach, flexing his name-recognition muscle today, walking among the voters, taking advantage of all the star power that he brings to the race, aware of the fact that the conservative Lincoln Group, the Lincoln Club of Orange County, a conservative group, has come out in support of Schwarzenegger and said that the other two primary candidates, Tom McClintock and Bill Simon, should pull out of the race.
It's a subject that Schwarzenegger approached very delicately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone has to make their own decision. These are all people that I respect. These are all people that are Republicans, that they have worked very hard. And, at one point or the other, they have to make the decision. I cannot make it for them. Obviously, mathematically speaking, it's wiser to only have one candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Meanwhile, of course, Governor Gray Davis has his problems. And he was out working some Hispanic groups also today. And he was in the San Diego area. This is a man who has now seen some of his fellow Democrats defy his wishes and oppose his recall at the same time they're supporting Democrat Cruz Bustamante, the lieutenant governor, in case the recall succeeds.
Now, in his comments, Gray Davis presented an unusual side for him. The governor was actually -- get this -- feisty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Now, people say, well, we have a deficit. We had a surplus before. Let's get rid of this guy.
Well, if that's going to be the standard, then 46 other governors should be recalled, because they had surpluses and now they have deficits. And the president of the United States, who I don't suggest we recall, but if that's the standard, we had $1 trillion worth of surpluses and now we have a $500 billion recall. So if you want to recall me, let's recall everybody, if that's the standard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Well, recall everybody is not exactly the issue that's on the ballot on October 7, Jan. It's whether to recall Gray Davis. And he clearly has an uphill battle -- Jan.
HOPKINS: That's for sure. Bob Franken in Los Angeles, thanks.
The Sobig computer virus may have struck "The New York Times." The newspaper shut down the computer systems at its Manhattan headquarters today. "The Times" told CNN its staff was looking into virus matters. The computers were restarted. And the paper plans to publish an edition tomorrow.
There were warnings that the Sobig virus would launch a major attack on systems worldwide today. But computer experts say that attack did not happen.
A tragedy tonight in Brazil. At least 16 people were killed, several others injured, when an unmanned rocket exploded on its launch pad. The rocket was being prepared for a launch next week. Its engine blew up. This is Brazil's third failed attempt to send a satellite into space.
Coming up: the "Shaky Foundations" of telecommunications shows through in times of trouble, and Peter Viles reports.
And then, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison says more soldiers and Marines are needed on the ground in Iraq. And she'll be our guest coming up.
And from the Sobig computer virus to hopes for an economic recovery, the editors of the nation's top business magazines join us for our weekly "Editors Circle."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: All this week, we've been looking at the cracks in America's infrastructure. Tonight, we continue this series of special with a look at the nation's telecommunications system. Increasingly, Americans are choosing wireless telephones because of their portability.
But, as Peter Viles reports, the wireless system failed a big test last week here in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SIREN BLARING)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The blackout of 2003. A major test of America's infrastructure, and in the early hours wireless phones failed the test. Calls simply didn't go through in part because power was lost at cell towers. In part because of overwhelming volume.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: We really have to do something about that, encourage these companies -- I don't know if we can force them, but certainly do everything we can to improve communications.
VILES: Pay phones worked so well during the blackout that Verizon put out a press release bragging that its pay phones were superheroes. But pay phone service is heavily regulated. Wireless service is not. And wireless networks are not built to handle the huge volume of calls that emergencies generate.
JANEE BRIESEMEISTER, CONSUMERS UNION: The attitude among federal regulators is let the market take care of it. But we see that the market doesn't take care of these public interest and public safety issues left on its own.
VILES: The wireless industry makes no apologies, saying it doesn't make financial sense to build massive extra capacity for emergencies.
KENNETH MEYERS, CEO US CELLULAR: In order to have four times the capacity you've got to have four times the investment, and I don't think the consumers are willing to pay four times the price for the same phone call.
VILES: There are other weaknesses in the wireless system. The e-911 system, intended to help emergency workers locate emergency 911 callers on cell phones, is a work in progress and progressing very slowly. More worrisome, the wireless spectrum is so clogged it sometimes interferes with radios used by emergency workers.
RANDY BRUEGMAN, PRES. INTERNATIONAL ASSN. OF FIRE CHIEFS: It doesn't have to be a major building fire or terrorist event or natural disaster. It can be you've dialed 911 and your wife's having a significant medical event and the fire department arrives there first and they can't communicate to the ambulance that's responding in.
VILES (on camera): The government watches land line service like a hawk. If a phone company has a major outage, they have to report it to the government within two hours. There's no such requirement to report an outage of wireless service, although in the case of this recent blackout the government is investigating what happened to wireless service. Peter Viles, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: And a reminder to vote in tonight's poll: what do you believe is the biggest threat in Iraq? Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda, or not enough coalition troops? Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll bring you results a little later in the show.
Still to come -- American troops returning from the front lines. We begin a special feature tonight on the nation's heroes. Casey Wian will have our story from Joshua Tree, California.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison believes the United States does not have enough active duty members in the army and marines for the post-September 11 era. She's in the Middle East as part of a congressional delegation. She toured military operations in Iraq. Senator Hutchison joined Lou Dobbs earlier from Islamabad, and he asked her why she thinks more troops are needed in the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: Well, I do think that because there have been these unsettling terrorist acts that we need to make sure that we are covered and that we get security in hand. Our people believe that there are terrorists coming from other country, that they are really starting these terrorist acts to stop progress, to stop the ability for us to succeed to help the Iraqi people.
So I think we probably do need more troops. And I know that the Pentagon is considering that. And I think we need border patrol. We need to stop the influx of terrorists from outside.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Are you disappointed, Senator, that not more has been done in the time since major combat operations ended on the first of May, that the process of rebuilding Iraq hasn't gained traction?
HUTCHISON: I have to say, Lou, that we got a slow start. I think anyone would agree that we did. We had some mishaps in the early stages.
But we are, I think, on the right track. We're bringing more infrastructure in, we're bringing more civil engineers in and I think we will be successful. But I think the Iraqi police force, of which there are now 40,000 -- we started with zero -- will be necessary to try to catch people who are trying to set us back. I think the bombing of the U.N. was an effort to set us back.
DOBBS: And let's turn to the issue of security itself. U.S. troops there, after accomplishing so much in a remarkable period of time, and overthrowing the regime of Saddam Hussein, now are in peril of their lives. The issue for many it would seem is U.S. military presence is being challenged in the Middle East. How many troops will it take to make certain that that does not take place, in your judgment?
HUTCHISON: First of all, I think that the Iraqi people want us to be there. I think they would be more upset if we said we were leaving. We are not going to cut and run. We are going to stay there until they're stabilized.
But I do think having an international presence, having others come in would be the right signal for the Iraqi people, the right signal for the whole Middle East, and certainly the right thing for America and Great Britain, who have carried really the major share of this burden so far.
DOBBS: Senator, do you believe the United States should have a permanent presence in Iraq?
HUTCHISON: I do not foresee a permanent presence. I do think we are going to keep the commitment we have made to the Iraqi people. And I think they were concerned that we might not. I think that was one of the problems we had early on with getting intelligence from the Iraqi people. They thought we might leave them again, as they believe happened 10 years ago. We are going to stay there as long as it takes, but we have no intention and don't wish to be there permanently.
We want the Iraqi people to govern themselves, to have their own security force. They're now starting the army again and they are looking to put 12,000 people on in the first brigade of an army. So as soon as they are up and they feel comfortable that they are secure, then of course we want to leave the country to be governed by Iraqi people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Tonight we begin a new recurring feature. We call it "Heroes". It's a look at the challenges faced by the men and women at the United States military who are returning from combat.
We begin tonight with Chris Pappas, a Marine Corp who is just returning to civilian life. Casey Wian has his story from Joshua Tree, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Corporal Chris Pappas was one of the first marines in Iraq when the U.S. invasion began in march.
COR. CHRIS PAPPAS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Front line, first in, first across the border. The only people ahead of us were tanks. WIAN: As a demolition expert, he blew up bridges, buildings, any thing in the way of the 3rd battallion, 7th marines.
PAPPAS: There's things I saw that I'll never forget. I had a job to do. I did it. It's not like I brag about it, but I did it and I came back.
WIAN: He came back to the marine base in Twenty-Nine Palms, California in June, because his 4 year enlistment was ending.
PAPPAS: It took some time to get switched back in it. It was just like, you know, quiet here, nobody shooting. You know, you go to sleep at night and all you hear are the birds chirps.
WIAN: After 5 months in the deserts of Kuwait and Iraq, Pappas is now in the California desert, facing a transition to the civilian world as a changed man. The most obvious change, weight loss.
PAPPAS: I left at what, 185. I came back at 142.
WIAN: The woman he returned to wasn't sure what to expect.
MELINDA RODERICK, GIRLFRIEND: He was so skinny and I was just nervous, because he'd been gone, you know. And it's like all these bubbling, weird feelings to a rush. I guess you could say combat taught him a few life altering lessons. He's more of a man. He's more grounded. He sees both sides of the coin.
WIAN: In a short time, he's moved from hunting Iraqi soldiers to job hunting. He sees plenty of civilian opportunities, perhaps with a police bomb squad or in the construction industry, maybe even a pyrotechnic expert for movie studios.
For now he's applying to be a federal airport screener and preparing for a tight job market .
PAPPAS: The rank don't go with you. Because I'm a corporal and NCO I can give orders, I can delegate authority, and I go out in the civilian world back on the bottom again. I've got to get back up there.
WIAN: Pappas says he feels a sense of accomplishment after serving in Iraq, but these days often avoids news of what's happening there now. He has other priorities.
PAPPAS: More interested in this whole California governor race right now. It pertains to my future. What happens in Iraq does not.
WIAN: His future also includes planning a wedding next year.
Casey Wian, CNN, Joshua Tree, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Tonight's thought is on battle. "It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it." That is from General Douglas MacArthur.
Coming up, so much for the summer doldrums. From the blackout to the most aggressive computer virus ever to hit cyberspace, this summer has been anything but dull. The editors of the nation's top business magazines join us next for more on what lies ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: A new development tonight in the growing controversy over the Ten Commandments monument in a state building in Alabama. In the last few minutes, CNN has learned that Chief Justice Roy Moore has been suspended. Moore will be suspended pending the outcome of an ethics complaint for defying a federal court order to remove the monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court.
From the controversy in Alabama to the worst blackout in the nation's history and the fastest and most aggressive computer virus yet. Joining us now for more on these and other stories, the editors of the nation's leading business magazines.
Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek."
Bill Powell, senior international editor of "Fortune."
And Paul Maidment. He is the executive editor of "Forbes."
Thank you all for joining us.
And let's start with this news in Alabama. What is your reaction?
MARK MORRISON, "BUSINESSWEEK": Well, I think it's probably good news. I mean, for the legal system to have any credibility you can't have a judge fouting (sic) the orders of the court. And so you know, I think this was maybe inevitable and probably a good result.
HOPKINS: Bill?
BILL POWELL, "FORTUNE" I agree with Mark. Inevitable. We are a nation of laws and not men. He was defying not only the federal court order but also his fellow colleagues on the Alabama Supreme Court. I think this was a given that this was going to happen.
HOPKINS: Any disagreement, Paul?
PAUL MAIDMENT, "FORBES": Not on that particular point, although I wonder if this whole story would be played up as much as it is were it not for events happening in other places in the world, where you see the battle, you know, obviously between theocracy and rationalism in the Middle East, the contrast between the Islamic world and the Christian world. So maybe this story is playing into a sensibility there which is giving it an undue amount of prominence.
HOPKINS: Interesting.
We have a lot of news in the Middle East and in Iraq, talk that terrorism is the big that terrorism is the biggest destabilizing force in Iraq. Would you all agree with that, that we really are dealing with terrorism at this point in Iraq? Bill maybe.
POWELL: Yes, absolutely. I spent a month in Iraq, just came back about two weeks ago.
I think the -- one of the mistakes that the administration made was President Bush's, frankly, trip to the aircraft carrier, which sent a message to the American people that the war was over. Whatever the language was, it said the war was over.
Well, it's not. And it is a guerrilla war, and indeed, it's terrorism. And it is going to need to be rooted out, you know, tooth and nail. And that is going to take a long time. It's going to take more troops. And the work has really only just begun. That's the message that the administration seems to be should be delivering.
HOPKINS: Bill (sic)?
MORRISON: Yes. And it's been very consistent on that message except that when things have gone fairly well they've given into the temptation, as Bill suggests, to get expectations ahead of where we are. And it is going to be a long, long process. And of course, this week we've got another big setback with the road map and -- in the Middle East process. And I don't know how you get that back on track. I mean, it seems like that is inevitably going to get worse before it gets better.
HOPKINS: Paul, do you think that the Middle East road map is disintegrated or at least off course at this point?
MAIDMENT: It's certainly in a great deal of trouble. I mean, one of the problems with the region is that you've got two nations wanting the same piece of land. So you've either got to resolve it, this conflict, which is what the road map is trying to do, or you have a war, which seems to be the point we're at at the moment.
I don't think that the Sharon government was ever really committed to the road map at all. I think they were happy to go along with it because if it worked that was fine, they got the peace it wanted. But they never believed it would. They never believed that the extremists could be shut down on the Palestinian side. And it seems that those fears have been justified.
HOPKINS: Let's go back to what happened last week. We weren't able to do a roundtable last week because of the blackout in New York. Have we learned anything from this situation, or is it still kind of evolving?
MORRISON: Well, they're still trying to get some answers just in terms of what happened. We have put a spotlight again, gotten a wake- up call that the system is fragile, particularly the transmission system has been -- has gotten far too little attention over recent years as parts of the energy industry have gone to deregulation. So I think there are a lost good ideas for starting to fix that and it's actually going to turn out to be a positive economic event because there's going to be investment in that grid and also in backup systems for companies and probably even television networks.
HOPKINS: Well, and we heard from Peter Viles, cell phones didn't work in New York. And the only way to resolve that is also more spending on infrastructure. I mean, is that the lesson that you see as well?
MAIDMENT: No, I think we're in danger of repeating a mistake here. And just throwing money at the grid as such isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do, and it won't necessarily guarantee we won't have a repeat.
The mistake that we risk completely again is that the ability of the grid to transmit power has far outstripped our ability to control and monitor that. I mean, the networks, the information networks behind the grid, utility by utility, they don't talk to each other. I mean, if Con Ed in New York, for example, had been able to monitor in real time the FirstEnergy, it might have been able to do something and not get hit with this tsunami wave of demand. The software controls that run those systems are antiquated.
As I say, the networks don't talk to each other. And for a relatively small amount of investment in those information networks -- and we're talking here low billions of dollars for a trillion-dollar grid, I think we as consumers, we're the ones that are going to end up paying for this, are going to get far get value for our money by attacking smarts behind the system rather then the grid itself.
HOPKINS: You know, it's also interesting, we are really seeing signs that the economy is coming along, which means more demand for electricity, higher gas prices, which we're already seeing. What else as a result of the stronger economy? Mark, you mentioned it earlier.
MORRISON: Well, the market obviously is doing extremely well. And even the jobs picture has begun to show a little bit of stabilizing. It's too soon to say that it's improving. But -- and that's going to be a lagging factor. But all in all, I mean, the consumer is hanging in there amazingly, given what we've seen. So has the market.
And I think it says that we're going to have some -- you know, we keep hearing the FET and a lot of business people, too, sort of low ball what to expect. I think we're going to get some positive surprises. 5 percent type growth rates over the next few quarters.
HOPKINS: I think that's going to have to be the final word. A very positive note to end on. Mark Morrison and Bill Powell and Paul Maidment. Thank you all.
And when we return, we'll have the results of tonight's poll, plus a positive week for stocks. Christine Romans will have the markets for us.
And many of you wrote in about the Ten Commandments monument dispute. We'll share some of your thoughts when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: The results of tonight's poll question. What do you believe is the biggest threat in Iraq? 25 percent of you said Saddam loyalists. 18 percent said al Qaeda. 57 percent said not enough coalition troops.
On Wall Street today stocks closed lower, erasing early gains after good news from Intel though. The Dow did lose 75 points. The Nasdaq fell 12. The S&P 500 dropped 10. Christine Romans joins us with more on the week. And the week was actually good.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it wasn't bad but the market today was about two stocks: it was about Intel and Schering- Plough. Intel raised its revenue targets. The stock roared as much as 10 percent higher, and in the end Intel was up 4 percent and the broader market was in retreat.
And ugly news from Schering-Plough, taking that stock down to the lowest price since 1996. Its new CEO Fred Hassan (ph) warned about 2004, will slash the dividend, and cut another 1,000 jobs. Jan, some analysts were absolutely confounded that this new CEO was not on the company conference call after that news. He's been on the job 100 days now, and analysts had plenty of questions for him.
Now, the Dow and the S&P 500, as you said, were a fraction higher for the week. The Nasdaq had its best weekly gain in more than a month. And for the Dow it was the 11 higher week in 13. And some news tonight, Jan, from Freddie Mac. Its general counsel and CEO are stepping down, as many had expected, under fire from regulators. We'll watch that one on Monday.
HOPKINS: Thanks. Christine Romans.
And now for a look at some of your thoughts. Richard from Louisiana wrote in to say, "Not all Americans believe in the Ten Commandments. I myself do believe in the Ten Commandments, but don't believe in forcing my beliefs on those who don't."
And Susanne of California wrote, "The answer is in 5 simple words: separation of church and state. Religious doctrine has no place in state or federal property."
And Carol of Georgia wrote, "Worship at the court house? Fair is fair, hold court in the sanctuary. The choir loft is perfect for a jury box."
And James of Arkansas asks, "If Alabama should remove the Ten Commandments than shouldn't the federal government have "In God We Trust" removed from U.S. currency."
Tom Evan of California writes, "Alabama justice Moore is a perfect example of why we need strict separation of church and state."
We love hearing from you. You can send us an e-mail at loudobbs@CNN.com.
And finally tonight, we revisit our American classics series to bring you Huckleberry Finn. Mark twain's masterpiece, "The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn," published in 1824, has become one of America's classic novels. We traveled to the middle of the country to see just how much Huck Finn has influenced American culture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS (voice-over): It all started on the Mississippi River. Here in the town of Hannibal, Missouri. The boyhood home of author Mark Twain and the fictional home of characters Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. They have captured the imagination of artists from Norman Rockwell to some of the country's best-known writers.
HENRY SWEETS, DIR. MARK TWAIN MUSEUM: Even people like Ernest Hemingway said that all American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain, "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn."
HOPKINS: Published in 1885, Huck Finn broke all literary traditions. Twain wrote in the first person from the perspective of Huck, an uneducated boy. He begins the book "You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer." Huck finn goes on to capture the spirit of adventure in the new west.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just remember it's a story about an adventurous boy and he -- you know, he runs away and he kills a pig. So his family thinks he's dead. He just goes off and sets off to kind of find out about himself.
HOPKINS: At the time it was published 20 years after the civil war, America was trying to redefine itself as well. The real adventures of Huck Finn took place on a raft on the Mississippi River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he white or black?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's white. HOPKINS: Huck's partner on the river is an escaped slave named Jim. Their relationship is seen here in the 1993 Disney movie, challenged an America that was still dealing with racism.
SHELLEY FISHER FISHKIN, ENGLISH DEPT. STANFORD UNIV.: It turns out that the difficulty of making freedom a reality would challenge us well into the 20th century and the 21st century. Racism is a really tough nut to crack. It's a very, very difficult problem to eradicate.
HOPKINS: Huck Finn strikes other chords.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember Huck Finn and getting in trouble as the boy that was the instigator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was kind of adventuresome. The pioneer era.
HOPKINS: Through the years tens of millions of copies of Huck Finn have been sold. Many to high school students, required to read the book for school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was probably one of the first experiences I had learning a little bit about slavery outside of history class and some of the feelings and how a young boy dealt with it.
HOPKINS: The book is still controversial. It has made the top 10 list of most challenged books most every year in the last decade. Kim Ahrens has taught Huck Finn to juniors at Hannibal High School for 11 years.
KIN AHRENS, HIGH SCHOOL ENGLISH TEACHER: Huck is about loyalty. Huck is about friendship. Huck is about the responsibility that I have to everyone else and that all of my students have to each other and to me and I to them. So it's about a lot of these life issues that our students are facing today.
HOPKINS: The book and its message stretch beyond the classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Look out for me oh mighty water.
HOPKINS: Besides the movie version Huck Finn was translated as a play. "Big River" is currently running on Broadway for both the hearing and hearing impaired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (singing): Come on back and ride look out for me oh, mighty water
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: And as Huck Finn said in the last line of the Mark Twain classic, "it's about time to light out for the territories."
that's our show tonight. Thanks for joining us. Monday we begin our series of Special Reports on education. We look at why America's schools aren't making the grade. Plus Bill Simon, California gubernatorial candidate, joins us. For all of us here, good night from New York. Have a great weekend. "LIVE FROM THE HEADLINES" with Daryn Kagan is next.
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Top Concern in Iraq>
