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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Betrayal at Guantanamo Bay?; President Bush Makes Case For Iraq War Before United Nations
Aired September 23, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Betrayal at Guantanamo Bay. An American airman is accused of espionage and aiding the enemy, after working with al Qaeda and Taliban detainees. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
Recall reversal: the on-off recall election is on again, after the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals reverses itself. Bob Franken reports.
In tonight's special report, "Exporting America": the terrible human and economic price paid by one community, as business ships jobs overseas.
And contrary to what some would have you believe, the United Nations has never been less popular with Americans than right now. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, September 23. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush today issued a new challenge to the United Nations, to put the differences over Iraq aside and to take action against the spread of weapons of mass destruction. President Bush said the world cannot ignore the deadly combination of outlaw regimes, terrorist networks and weapons of mass murder. He also called upon the United Nations to help build democracy in Iraq.
Senior White House correspondent John King is in New York with the president and joins us now -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the president today told the General Assembly it was time to move forward. The president wants a new Security Council resolution that might bring more international troops and more international money into postwar Iraq.
But the president also made clear, as he wants to look forward, he wants to settle this debate on largely his own terms. The president was quite adamant today. He said even countries that opposed the war have a responsibility to ante up and help pay for Iraq's reconstruction. The president also said that he, the United States, not the United Nations, will determine the timetable for Iraq's political transition. And while acknowledging that many in the great hall at the General Assembly disagreed with him, the president was quite adamant in making the case that he was right to go to war to begin with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because there were consequences, because a coalition of nations acted to defend the peace and the credibility of the United Nations, Iraq is free. And today, we are joined by representatives of a liberated country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: After the speech, a face-to-face meeting with perhaps his most vocal critic before the war and now after the war, with the French president, Jacques Chirac. Mr. Chirac said he wants power transferred to Iraqis from the United States within a matter of weeks or months, at the most.
Just not going to happen, we are told, Mr. Bush said in response. He said, there is not an elected Iraqi government and that he will not transfer authority with 100,000 U.S. troops still on the ground, some $20 billion in U.S. reconstruction money going into Iraq over the next several months. Mr. Bush said he transfer authority, political authority, only when there's a new constitution and free elections.
And, Lou, that's the key sticking point as to whether the president can get a new resolution out of the Security Council, although -- and this is encouraging from the White House standpoint -- U.S. officials say President Chirac made clear that, while he continues to disagree with Mr. Bush, France will not stand in the way of a new resolution in the Security Council -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you -- John King, senior White House correspondent in New York with the president.
Well, as John King reported, French President Jacques Chirac today launched a fierce attack against U.S. policy when he spoke before the United Nations. Chirac said, no one can act alone in the name of all and no one can accept the anarchy of a society without rules.
Senior United Nations correspondent Richard Roth has that story -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Lou, before they can agree on a new resolution in the Security Council on Iraq, the leaders of France and the United States were still fighting the old war, as President Bush defended U.S. actions.
But French President Chirac, who spoke shortly after the U.S. president, delivered a blistering series of comments on the U.S. He said, the war on Iraq not sanctioned by the Security Council shook up the entire international system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): No one can claim the right to use force unilaterally or preventively. Conversely, in the face of mounting threats, states must be assured that the council has the appropriate means of evaluation and of collective action and that it has the will to act. We are all very committed to the sovereignty of states. But its scope can and should be limited in the case of serious violations of human rights and of humanitarian law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The French president wants the Security Council to look at actions by some states to stage preemptive attacks on others.
Later, at a lunch, President Chirac and Bush were both present. This is earlier in the day, as President Bush met with Secretary- General Annan. The two men discussed the Iraq issue and Afghanistan. It wasn't long, Lou, after this meeting that Secretary-General Annan also heaped criticism on the United States, without mentioning the state by name. He issued a scathing comment regarding a unilateral attack on Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: The council needs to consider how it will deal with the possibility that individual states may use force preemptively against perceived threats. Its members may need to begin a discussion on the criteria for an early authorization of coercive measures to address certain types of threats, for instance, terrorist groups armed with weapons of mass destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: This type of warning was issued by Annan last year, but it wasn't enough to stop the United States from attacking Iraq. There was also a lunch where the world leaders sat down. President Bush and Kofi Annan toasted each other at this lunch. During the event, the secretary-general of the U.N. said, there may be at these tables old friends, some meeting for the first time. They may have views different than yours on world affairs. But despite all differences, in effect, let's all make the world a better place.
But , Lou, the differences among the men and women in that room are still pretty stark on Iraq. And no one's sure exactly what's going to happen on this resolution that's still at least a week away -- Lou.
DOBBS: Richard, thank you very much -- Richard Roth, our senior United Nations correspondent.
As the president today traveled to the United Nations, there was an astonishing claim in an advertisement placed in several of this country's most influential newspapers. The advertisement suggests more Americans support the United Nations. But polling organizations have a far different story.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A glance at the newspaper this morning, "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post," would have you believe that -- quote -- "Most Americans think it's in our best interest to actively support the United Nations" -- unquote -- 82 percent, according to their headline.
However, the survey was done on behalf of the Better World Campaign, whose very purpose is to boost appreciation for the U.N. It is part of the Better World Fund, which was created with initial support from businessmen and philanthropist Ted Turner. Experts say other polls more commonly used come to quite the opposite conclusion. The U.N. is strongly out of favor with the American public.
NILE GARDINER, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: There have been several key opinion polls in the last few months which have indicated that the American people are becoming fed up with the inability of the United Nations to address the issues of major concern to the world in the 21st century. The failure of the U.N. to effectively deal with the Iraqi threat was symbolic, I believe, of potential long-term decline in the United Nations.
PILGRIM: A CNN/"USA Today/Gallup poll was conducted over the same timeframe, in late August. It found 60 percent of Americans think the United Nations is doing a poor job trying to solve the problems it has had to face, the worst public opinion rating on the U.N. since the survey began in 1953.
FRANK NEWPORT, EDITOR IN CHIEF, GALLUP POLL: There's no question that the U.N.'s lack of involvement, at least officially, with the Iraqi war last March affected the public's attitudes.
PILGRIM: Approval tanked early last year, as the Security Council dithered about action in Iraq. The data supports that. More than half the people polled, 55 percent, said U.N. lack of action on Iraq made them less favorable to the U.N. And 37 percent take that farther, saying the United States should decrease funding for the United Nations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, politicians may be willing to get back to business, as today's events at the U.N. may suggest. But it seems the public memory is a little bit longer than is politically convenient -- Lou.
DOBBS: An extraordinary claim by an organization supporting the United Nations, in bald-faced opposition to every poll that we've seen.
PILGRIM: They certainly do -- they exist to support the U.N. and the U.S.-U.N. relationship.
DOBBS: Nonetheless, there should be a certain amount of integrity in any of these things, no matter the cost.
Kitty, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim. That brings us to tonight's poll question: Is the United Nations today more relevant than a year ago? You may recall, a year ago, the president suggested that the United Nations was teetering on the brink of irrelevance. Vote yes or no. Please cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have results later in the show.
Coming up: A former presidential adviser says today's speech by President Bush simply did not go far enough to win the hearts and minds of other nations. David Gergen joins us.
Then: treason at Guantanamo Bay? A second member of the U.S. armed forces is suspected of espionage, new charges tonight. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.
And "Exporting America." It began with manufacturing. Now it seems no job in this country is safe. Jan Hopkins reports.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up: a recall reversal in California. As Arnold Schwarzenegger tonight takes questions from voters -- these are live pictures of an Ask Arnold event -- October 7, says the circuit court of appeals, will be, after all, Election Day. Bob Franken reports on the very latest twists in the story. CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein joins us.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: CEOs, business consultants and economists would like you to believe this country is exporting only manufacturing jobs. But the reality is far different. Millions of white-collar jobs as well are being exported overseas. And many communities in this country are paying a terrible price.
One such community is Buffalo, New York. It's a city that's already been hit with a loss of 25,000 steel jobs because of foreign competition. The pain goes far beyond the steel industry.
Jan Hopkins reports in our special report, "Exporting America."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAN HOPKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mike Hall is looking for a job. He worked for a call center with Sprint as a major client.
MICHAEL HALL, FORMER CALL CENTER WORKER: The call center in Buffalo had over 800 employees. And the call center was closed. And the work basically went to India, Puerto Rico and Mexico.
HOPKINS: Barry Waldman's call center handled Microsoft's technical assistance. Waldman also lost his job. BARRY WALDMAN, FORMER CALL CENTER WORKER: It's very difficult, especially in the computer industry, to bring in someone that has the technical skill or at least the knowledge of the product at $7 or $8 an hour in America, when you can get that -- they will line up for that in India.
HOPKINS: At the Buffalo job center, they're lining up for paying jobs.
COLLEEN CUMMINGS, BUFFALO EMPLOYMENT AND TRAINING CENTER: We do also have to help them get beyond that disappointment, and sometimes anger, that they weren't doing anything wrong. They were doing their jobs. They were doing them well. And the company, making business decisions, has chosen to go elsewhere.
HOPKINS: Consultants like Buffalo-based Peter Bloom are working with call centers, helping them cut costs, and showing them that there are cheaper options in other countries.
PETER BLOOM, CALL CENTER CONSULTANT: The actual pay is probably one-tenth in India or the Philippines as to what it is in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Debbie (ph). How may I help you?
HOPKINS: This BlueCross BlueShield call center in Buffalo is trying to you cut costs without cutting jobs. So far, it's worked, because customers like speaking to someone local.
PAULINE CATALDI, BLUECROSS BLUESHIELD OF WESTERN NEW YORK: When they call, it's like they're talking to their sister or their cousin. And there's a great sensitivity there. There's a lot of empathy there.
HOPKINS: That personal touch is often not enough for a company worried about the bottom line. Federal Reserve economists say these jobs aren't going to come back when the economy does.
RICHARD DEITZ, FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF NEW YORK: During this recession, we have seen a lot of change in employment that's been more structural, rather than cyclical. So a lot of the losses are going to be permanent.
HOPKINS: The workers left behind, like engineer Ken Thrum, are trying to figure out what to do.
KENNETH THRUM, JOB SEARCHER: I've done everything anybody has asked me, have been successful at it, never been fired from a job. But yet this is the second time it's hit me. And, unfortunately, it's hit me at a time in this history in this country that it's going to be tough for people like myself and for anybody who is trying to look for a job, a good-paying job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Workers like Ken Thrum understand that we live in a global economy, but he's forced to figure out yet again where he fits in. As for Buffalo, the city is in such bad shape financially that the governor of New York has named a financial control board to take over -- Lou.
DOBBS: And as terrible as the individual stories, almost as chilling is to hear the Federal Reserve say these job losses are permanent. It's just despicable.
HOPKINS: It's not cyclical.
DOBBS: The lack of a trade policy here.
HOPKINS: Right.
DOBBS: Jan, thanks -- Jan Hopkins.
The automobile industry is another example of how U.S. trade policy, or the lack of one, is hurting American workers. The United States is now running a huge trade deficit in cars and car parts. You might expect that, with countries such as Germany and Japan, that deficit to be huge. But there is also a deficit with Mexico, with Brazil and Taiwan.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you beat George Bush?
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A telling exchange in the Democratic presidential campaign, Howard Dean wants to link foreign trade to labor and environmental policy. But John Kerry, defending the U.S. auto industry, says, wait a minute. That would prevent Detroit from selling cars in the -- quote -- "developing world." That's a nice thought, but why isn't anybody worried about selling cars in the United States?
It is best market in the world. And last month, Toyota outsold Chrysler in the U.S. to become the third biggest player in the market. Look at the numbers. Forget developing markets. America is giving away its own market. Through July, the U.S. ran a $72 billion trade deficit in autos and auto parts. The U.S. runs huge deficits with Japan, Germany, and Canada. No surprise. But we also run huge deficits with Mexico, $15 billion through July, Brazil and Taiwan.
And China is on the rise as a factory for auto parts bound for elsewhere in the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Late today, a dramatic example of how these trends turn into lost jobs in America: DaimlerChrysler announcing it will not build a planned factory near Savannah, Georgia. Georgia officials had hoped that that plant would create thousands of jobs, the German company blaming a -- quote -- "difficult auto market." One of the difficulties is $15 billion of Mexican goods, auto goods, coming into this market.
DOBBS: It's extraordinary. And as we try to tally up the job losses here, it becomes all but impossible. The U.S. Commerce Department does not keep a record of these job losses, nor the balance and the effect of these deals that are created, with U.S. companies building cars overseas and foreign makers building them here.
Peter Viles, thank you.
Coming up next: an apparent betrayal at Guantanamo Bay. It's a second man now in custody charged with espionage. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.
And the recall race is back on again in California. Bob Franken will have the report. Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times" joins us.
And President Bush goes to the United Nations, pleading for help and asking nations to put aside differences and to help rebuild Iraq. David Gergen has advised presidents of both parties. He joins us tonight.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today said precision raids against terrorists and those still loyal to the former regime in Iraq will continue. Today, the United States launched an airstrike near Fallujah after members of the 82nd Airborne Division came under fire.
The military said the soldiers pursued their attackers into a building and set up a perimeter. The troops then called in air support. The coalition said one Iraqi was killed. Police and villagers said three people were killed.
There are no reports of any American casualties in that firefight. Central Command says the overall number of service men and women killed and wounded in Iraq has not changed since yesterday; 304 Americans have died since the beginning of the war, 191 in combat, 113 in accidents. Another 1,600 have been wounded, all but 320 of them by hostile fire.
The Pentagon today charged a U.S. airman who worked at the military prison in Guantanamo Bay with espionage and aiding the enemy. The airman worked as an Arabic translator with al Qaeda and Taliban detainees. A Muslim chaplain in the U.S. Army is also now in custody on suspicion of espionage and treason.
Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has the report -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, Senior Airman Ahmad al-Halabi is indeed charged with spying and aiding the enemy at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where he did work as a translator at the Naval base where more than 600 detainees are being held, including, of course, many al Qaeda suspects. Now, officials tell CNN that he had been reported to be acting suspiciously. An investigation began. They found unauthorized classified material on his laptop computer. When he was confronted with that information, he had no plausible explanation for why he had that material. And then it was actually on July 23 that he was arrested and taken into custody.
Now, al-Halabi is being held at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. And he is facing more than 30 charges. Those charges include espionage, aiding the enemy, false statements, bank fraud, and failing to obey orders. But, of course, there's a much deeper issue here now. Investigators urgently want to know if he had any connection to Captain James Yee. He, of course, is the Islamic Army chaplain who has not yet been charged, but is being held in Charleston, South Carolina, on suspicion of espionage and treason, after he completed a tour at Guantanamo Bay working as a chaplain, ministering to the Islamic detainees there.
What they want to know, of course, is whether the two men had any connection. Now, today, New York Senator Charles Schumer held a press conference about all of this. He says he is very angry that the two groups that certify Muslim clerics for the U.S. military are the subject of a federal investigation themselves.
Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: This fact is incredible. That a man who ends up as chaplain to potentially the most dangerous terrorists we have in our custody was trained by groups who might well have a link to terrorism almost defies the imagination. And yet, that is what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: And, Lou, sources tell CNN, as the investigation continues into Airman al-Halabi and Chaplain Yee, there is every reason to believe, they tell us, that there will be more arrests -- Lou.
DOBBS: This investigation, Barbara, it is far broader than these two suspects.
STARR: Indeed, Lou.
Sources are telling CNN they do expect a -- with some certainty, there will be at least one more arrest, possibly some others. What they don't know, Lou, is whether they are facing a broad espionage conspiracy at Guantanamo Bay, to be very blunt about it, whether al Qaeda has penetrated the U.S. military, or are they simply facing a number of people that were working alone and there was a coincidence of events, if you will, here. They don't have the answer to that question yet.
DOBBS: Barbara, thank you very much -- Barbara Starr. Coming up next: President Bush challenged the United Nations to step in and help rebuild Iraq. Former presidential adviser David Gergen says the presentation was good, the reception not. He's our guest.
And the show will go on in California. Bob Franken reports. Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times" joins us.
And a college football player lines up against the NFL in court -- that story and some thoughts from NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Iraq's new leaders are showing the openness and tolerance that democracy requires. And they're also showing courage. Yet, every young democracy needs the help of friends. Now the nation of Iraq needs and deserves our aid. And all nations of goodwill should step forward and provide that support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And one senior lawmaker called upon the United States to provide aid to itself. Tonight's quote comes from Capitol Hill, where a U.S. senator shared his biggest concern about rebuilding Iraq, saying, "I would point out the security problems are still severe. We see that every day with the tragic loss of another American soldier, another attack. You have to get the security situation under control, which, in my view, means more American troops" -- that from U.S. Senator John McCain.
Former presidential adviser David Gergen said President Bush is unlikely to win any hearts and minds overseas with his speech to the U.N. today. But he says the president did a good job of presenting the American view of the world to the United Nations. David Gergen joins me now, David, the director of the Center For Public Leadership at the Kennedy School at Harvard. He served as adviser to the Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Clinton administrations.
David, good to have you with us.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you, Lou. Good to be here again.
DOBBS: The president today didn't light any fires, as far as I could tell, with the assembly. What's your take?
GERGEN: I think you're right, Lou.
If the president were not required to go to the U.N. because of annual tradition, I think there's a good question whether he would have appeared at all. The U.S. government had hoped, his administration had hoped, that, by the day, before the president's speech, the Security Council at the U.N. would already have approved a resolution. And, of course, it has not.
And, moreover, the signals that the president has received from other countries about money and troops have been disappointing. So I think the president went into today's speech with low expectations. And he offered very little in the way of new concessions that would bring other countries over. He did do a good job in showcasing America's engagement and support in many parts of the U.N. activities, such as HIV/AIDS, where the United States, as Secretary Powell has pointed out, has taken the world lead.
But on Iraq, clearly, the president is not expecting much from other nations. And, increasingly, from the administration's point of view, it begins to appear that the U.N. is rather a sideshow.
DOBBS: A sideshow. A year ago before the United Nations, he used the world irrelevance. Have we moved to a position where this president was making an obligatory gesture to the United Nations, all the while suggesting that this administration, at least, if not this government, for some time, considers the United Nations irrelevant?
GERGEN: I don't think he considers it irrelevant, but I think he considers it marginal.
He clearly does not want to do what other nations want as a price for giving a lot of money and sending in a lot of troops. And that is to give up political control over Iraq. Everyone agrees. Kofi Annan agrees that the U.S. should remain in charge of the military operations in Iraq. But other nations, France, Germany and others, are saying, if you want us to send a lot of money and send a lot of troops, then we want, through the United Nations, to take over political control, in effect, to replace Jerry Bremer as the lead player there, take over that control.
And what's that all about, Lou? It's in part, the United States ultimately wants a transfer of sovereignty to Iraq, but not just transfer of sovereignty. The United States wants it transferred to a government that's going to be pro-U.S., pro-Western.
DOBBS: Well, the United States would be utterly stupid if it did not, don't you think?
GERGEN: Well, I think there's a major case for that, and especially if you think you're going to put in radical clerics who would run the place, and you might see a worst-case scenario, see a return to power of the Saddam elite.
So the U.S. has a -- it's totally understandable the president's trying to do this. But it does put the burden on us. And it means, we've got to pay the bills. Ours are the soldiers who are going to get shot. And we're in a race for time right now, Lou.
DOBBS: What is the race against time?
GERGEN: The real issue is not what happens at the U.N. The real issue is what happens on the ground in Iraq, because the race against time is that the people of Iraq are turning increasingly sour toward the U.S.
DOBBS: David, you are one of the most astute political observers. You have watched this president a year ago talk about the United Nations risking irrelevance, taking on a unilateral, if you're a critic, or a bold move to remove Saddam Hussein from power, if you are a supporter of the Bush administration and its policy.
GERGEN: Right.
DOBBS: Today, five months after major combat operations ended, this president is not mounting an emotional statement for the American people that we're going to do great things in Iraq. He talked about this spring, as did his advisers, the democracy, not only in Iraq, but in the Middle East, to show what the United States can achieve in a positive and constructive way, to build bridges and roads and schools and to put that country back to work.
Are you surprised this president has not appealed to the higher and the best instincts and motives of the American people to get things done?
GERGEN: I am surprised.
And it was only today in the U.N. speech that we heard our soldiers are building 1,000 schools there in Iraq. That, to me, is very appealing. We didn't -- at least I hadn't heard the administration trumpet that before. We're building hospitals. Those are good things to do. But the -- my sense is, Lou, that they have been very surprised about how badly this has gone. This has been much more difficult than they expected.
They're not willing to admit -- and I think this has been an error on their part -- that they did not anticipate this properly. At a time when they need to rally the country, they've got to admit a few errors and then send in, as -- I think John McCain is right. We need to get the situation on the ground turned around quickly. We can't wait. If we need more troops, need more money, do it.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: The secretary of defense, who managed, through the general staff, of course, of the U.S. military, a brilliant operation in the war against Saddam Hussein, says to this day that we do not need more divisions, even though we have troops deployed in over 100 countries around the world, that we do not need to go back to the old school of military power, that is, boots on the ground, simply swift, effective, light-striking forces. What do you make of that?
GERGEN: Well, I ask this question. If the United States does not need more troops on the ground, why are we going to the U.N. and asking for more international troops to be sent?
Clearly, the president feels we need -- there need to be more troops from some country in there. And if they're not going to send them, it is going to have to be our job to get it done, because, right now, the president says we're making good progress in Iraq. All the reports that come back say, at least around Baghdad and nearby environs, the situation is more treacherous than it was a month ago, two months ago. The number of people showing up dead in the morgues of Baghdad today is twice as high as it was three, four months ago, people who died by unexplained violent means.
DOBBS: David Gergen, as always, good talking with you. Thanks for being here.
GERGEN: It's good to talk with you. Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now. Our poll question this evening: Is the United Nations today more relevant than a year ago, in your opinion, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have results a little later in the show.
Tonight's thought is about diplomacy and the diplomatic process: "Foreign relations are like human relations. They are endless. The solution of one problem usually leads to another" -- that from journalist James Reston.
Still ahead here: October 7 will be Election Day, after all, in California, another dramatic twist in this continuing political drama, or, as some would suggest, farce. Tonight, candidates such as Arnold Schwarzenegger are campaigning, and they are campaigning hard. These are live pictures of an Ask Arnold event. We'll have a report from Bob Franken in California. We'll be joined by "Los Angeles Times" columnist/CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The California recall election is back on again tonight. A panel of 11 federal judges today voted unanimously to overturn a previous decision by three of the members of that court to delay the election. Six California counties will now be allowed to use the punch card ballot system that some say is unfair.
Bob Franken joins us now from Los Angeles with the report -- Bob?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think we could probably sum up the judges' ruling as, well, life isn't fair.
The judges ruled that, even though there may be some inequities in the fact that the punch card ballot machines are going to be used in just six of the counties, the fact is that there was a larger interest in letting California go ahead with its election after millions of dollars have been spent and thousands of absentee ballots have gone out.
What was so startling about this was that it happened so quickly. Less than 16 hours after they completed their 11-judge panel hearing, the judges ruled. And it was unanimous. The election should go forward. It was unanimous. And it was really the end of the road for the American Civil Liberties Union, who realized that, if they went to the Supreme Court, they were not going to really have a chance of getting a high court review.
So the ACLU announced this afternoon, it's over. The challenges to the election are over. And barring a surprise -- of course, that's a huge if in this election -- but barring a surprise, the wire will be going -- the one that they're going down to comes next week -- or, rather, in two weeks on October 7.
In between that is tomorrow's debate, the Super Bowl of debates, according to Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's the only one he's appearing in, Lou. It's the one in which questions have been submitted in advance, the only one he's appearing in so far. And, of course, a lot is going to depend on how that goes. And there's now pressure on one of the top Republicans, Tom McClintock or Schwarzenegger, to pull out.
And it's really mostly aimed at McClintock. Some of it comes from Darrell Issa, who is the congressman who put up so much of the money to finance the recall to begin with. He is saying -- and he admits it's just for attention -- that, if the Republicans split the vote, it would mean that Cruz Bustamante would be the winner, the Democrat. And he's saying, vote against the recall; Bustamante would be even worse than Gray Davis.
As I said, he's doing that just to draw attention, something, of course, which is desperately needed out here in California, Lou.
DOBBS: To draw attention to what or whom, Bob?
FRANKEN: Everything and anybody.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Bob Franken, thank you.
Joining us from Washington for more on the California recall, the race for the White House, CNN political analyst/"Los Angeles Times" columnist Ron Brownstein.
Ron, good to have you with us.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: This decision today, which is remarkable, first, because three of the judges who delayed the election fell in line with eight of their colleagues on the 9th Circuit and said, no delay. That's remarkable by any standard in and of itself.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I not sure that it was the same judges.
But there were eight Democratic judges who joined with three Republican judges in a very emphatic decision. Lou, I talked to all the campaigns, pretty much all the campaigns today. And I think there's a broad consensus in California, apart from the plaintiffs in this case, that it's time to call the question. This election was supposed to be a short race to the wire. But, in fact, it feels like it's been around for a long time already.
And I think people are ready to make this decision one way or the other.
DOBBS: And it appears right now, at least, that the winds are shifting certainly in California, Gray Davis picking up support, support for the recall election ebbing, at least according to some of the recent polls. Give us your best analysis of the most recent poll numbers.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
Well, when you look at it, Gray Davis is making progress. I think that's pretty undeniable. But whether he's making enough progress to get over the top, we simply don't know. This is going to be very close one way or the other. You have two big facts here. It's a Democratic-leaning state. And Gray Davis remains extremely unpopular.
His disapproval rating, people who think he's doing a bad job as governor, is still up to 65 percent in the most recent poll. And part of what has happened, Lou, is, he's narrowed the gap a little bit by bringing back Democrats. He still probably has to make some more progress among independents. So one Davis adviser said to me today: We're making progress, but we're not over the hump.
And I think that pretty much characterizes where they are.
DOBBS: The Republicans, as Bob Franken reported, Darrell Issa saying that one of them has to drop out, either McClintock or Schwarzenegger, within the next 48 hours. What do you make of that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's a very severe demand.
Look, McClintock certainly wants to stay in and have his shot at the debate. One of the things that conservatives have felt is that they need -- they have argued they need McClintock there as an insurance policy in case Schwarzenegger does not perform well under the spotlight. And, of course, tomorrow is going to be the sole debate that he's participating in. He's the focus of it, both positive and negative.
Certainly, he's going to get the most attacks from the other candidates. But he also has the most to gain, if he can reassure voters that he's up to the job.
DOBBS: And, Ron, let's turn to another matter, upcoming matter, 10 candidates now for the Democratic presidential nomination. George Bush's approval rating has just plummeted to its lowest level since he took office.
Is this a real opportunity now for the Democrats, or is it simply volatility in early polling?
BROWNSTEIN: No, I think the two things are related.
George Bush, look, as you pointed out on the show, has not had a lot of good news lately. He's at risk of having a net loss of jobs over his term. There's not much good news coming out of Iraq. The federal budget deficit is reaching record levels. And, on Friday, the Census Bureau is almost certain to report a significant increase in poverty. It's not surprising that the numbers are going down.
And because the numbers are going down, Lou, I think there's a lot of interest on the Democratic side in finding someone who can stand up and be a strong general election candidate. That's where Wesley Clark fits in. He's had very good timing here, very fortunate timing. Howard Dean is the only Democrat who has really shown any momentum over the last several months, as we've talked about before on the show. But there are still a lot of doubts among Democrats about whether he can be effective in the general. So there comes Clark filling that vacuum, potentially.
DOBBS: Filling a vacuum and filling it with blinding power, his numbers almost twice that of the nearest runner-up in the most recent poll we did. Is this the kind of strength you expect to stand for Wesley Clark?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think we're going to have to wait and see on that, Lou.
It's a very powerful number. But you still have to see what's going on in Iowa and New Hampshire, rather than the national polls, because there, the candidates have more independent support. And that's where Clark really will have a tougher climb.
DOBBS: Ron Brownstein, thanks for being with us.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, a conservative or a liberal, this next story will amaze you.
People who have not respected immigration laws in this country are now demanding equal treatment under the law. They have begun a cross-country demonstration for those rights, in fact. As we have reported on this show, millions of high-paying American jobs are being exported out of this country. And many illegal aliens are filling low-paying jobs within our borders.
Today, nearly 1,000 immigrant workers began a 12-day cross- country bus trip. They call it a freedom ride. And they're modeling their action after the freedom riders from the civil rights movement. The group is asking for amnesty for millions of illegal aliens, workers who have entered the country illegally, who have broken immigration laws, and now claim they're being treated unjustly.
The group does not ask the immigration status of riders who join, but they do admit many are what they call undocumented. Susan Sarandon, by the way, Martin Sheen, labor unions, and several U.S. senators are among the more than 1,000 sponsors who have raised $1.5 million for this trip.
Coming up next: a college football player blocked from what he wants to do. And now he's tackling the NFL in court. We'll have that story and a great deal more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Nearly one million people are still without power tonight along the East Coast, five days after Hurricane Isabel struck. Storms along the East Coast today hampered efforts to restore power to frustrated Isabel victims from Pennsylvania to North Carolina. Nearly four million people in eastern Denmark and southern Sweden were without power for more than three hours today, the outage caused by a faulty transmission line separating the two countries.
Hurricane Marty battered Mexico's Baja, California, peninsula with 100-mile-an-hour winds and rains. One man is dead tonight. Thousands more have been forced from their homes because of widespread flooding. That storm moved back out to the Gulf.
To a storm of a different kind tonight: Former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett is charging ahead again, but this time in a New York court. The suspended collegiate player is suing the National Football League, asking a judge to void a league rule that prohibits players from entering the NFL draft until three years after leaving high school. Earlier today month, commissioner Paul Tagliabue told this show he would defend the league's rules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL TAGLIABUE, NFL COMMISSIONER: I think that our rule is very Well crafted. And it serves everyone in sports, including the players, very well. So we would defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: CNN Sports' Larry Smith has been following the story, of course, and joins us now.
Larry, this is a remarkable development.
LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is, Lou.
In fact, one name to keep in mind, Spencer Haywood. In 1970, he challenged the NBA's rule of not allowing underclassmen to join the NBA. And he won. And that opened the door for many younger men, teenagers and men who were not college graduate, did not finish their college eligibility to go into the professional ranks.
This is unique, though, because the NFL is such a physical sport. Clarett certainly physically capable size-wise. He's 6 feet tall, 230 pounds, very well built. But this is a very touchy issue for the NFL, because they certainly would not want to set a precedent and allow just anyone to come in before their three years are up, three years out of high school. So it's interesting to see how this is going to turn out.
DOBBS: And if there is a decision here by the NFL, there's no way they can do a one-off. This will be, whether that's what anybody wants or not, a precedent, will it not?
SMITH: It will set a precedent, just like in the 1970s, when we saw Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins and Bill Willoughby come out of high school directly to the NBA. It didn't happen for a long time. But once someone does it, a Kevin Garnett or a Kobe Bryant, then, every year, you'll see more people do it. I'm talking NBA.
But, in the NFL, certainly, you'll see it. If one person does it, someone will come out and say, hey, I had a great freshman year. I'm only 19. Why can't I do it?
It will be interesting to see. They may try to adopt something, maybe. And I'm speculating here. Something kind of like what baseball does, which says, you can turn pro after high school. But if you enter college, you must then go through your junior year, if you go to a four-year school, or at least through two years if you go to a junior college. So the precedent here can be set. And it can be a landmark decision, no matter which way it goes.
DOBBS: Well, Larry, this has everything to do with what is fair. It seems remarkable that a league could keep anybody out of the draft. Secondly, football is the biggest money maker for collegiate sports. And it looks like those young men who work so hard to support their universities should be, well, able to get some sort of reward, at least.
SMITH: Yes, certainly.
And, Lou, I'll tell you what. If I could jump in one moment, that's one thing you know that the Clarett lawyers are going to argue. And they're going to say, listen, he has helped Ohio State make millions of dollars for college football and for the university. Why can't he make millions for himself?
DOBBS: And I suspect that we'll see that issue broaden across all of collegiate football, at least, if not collegiate sports itself.
Larry Smith, thank you.
SMITH: Sure. Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll have the results of tonight's poll. And many of you have written in asking about Hilario Bermanis, one of the military heroes we featured on this broadcast and how you can help. When we continue, we'll have your thoughts on a host of issues.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll. The question: Is the United Nations today more relevant than a year ago? Sixty-nine percent of you said yes; 31 percent said no.
On Wall Street today, stocks rallied for the first time in three days, the Dow up 41 points, almost, the Nasdaq adding 27 points, the S&P 500 up more than six.
Christine Romans now with the market -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Dow took back more than a third of that loss from yesterday. And volume improved today.
The currency worries on the back-burner today. And it was earnings that were in focus. Three brokers, Lou, reported earnings growth today. Morgan Stanley and Lehman weathered that summer bond drought. But Goldman Sachs' revenue from fixed-income currency and commodity trading fell sharply. All of them beating the Street, as they say, by anywhere from a dime to 50 cents. It makes you wonder what good earnings estimates are if they are so far off. And they are off every quarter from the brokers.
DOBBS: Who puts those estimates out?
ROMANS: The brokers. The analysts of the brokers.
Telecom stocks tumbled, after Verizon shaved its earning targets for the year. And, Lou, Verizon announcing a plan to limit executive severance pay. Qwest, by the way, another telecom, said it will be filing its 2000, 2001, and 2002 financial reports as soon as possible.
DOBBS: Why not today?
ROMANS: And defense stocks fell, after Smith Barney said earnings would peak in 2005 for the group, based on its survey of declining support for more military spending.
And news now from a defunct software company that affects a very prominent media company. Two former executives of PurchasePro.com have pleaded guilty to fraud, this in connection with a scheme to inflate sales and falsely credit a major media company, as the Justice Department says, with customer referrals. As we know, the Justice Department, the government, is in the midst of a probe into how AOL accounted for revenue and profits.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much -- Christine Romans.
That's AOL Time Warner, I believe, overall, isn't it?
ROMANS: AOL Time Warner, yes.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Beverly MacKenzie wrote about the immigrant workers' freedom ride: "An estimated 1,000 illegal aliens and their supporters are traveling across the United States, culminating in Washington, D.C. and New York City, demanding amnesty, open borders, in-state tuition, general public assistance, and driver's license, which will further burden and insult American taxpayers."
Many of you wrote in about our series of special reports, "Exporting America."
Fred Siena of South Elgin, Illinois: "It appalls me to hear that corporate executives and investors from American-based companies are willing to sacrifice the jobs and futures of American workers in order to improve the bottom line. How selfish, greedy, and un-American."
Jeff Marx of Greenwood, Indiana: "Please continue your reporting on the outsourcing of American jobs, especially the white-collar ones. This topic needs to become a major election issue. If not, we will all be asking, do you want fries with that?"
Bob Mobley of Fort Lee, New Jersey: "You call it exporting America. I call it economic treason. These corporate executives who export jobs are economic traders. Economic patriots should boycott their corporations. Let's put America first and stop giving our country away."
And many have written in to ask how you can help Army Specialist Hilario Bermanis. He lost three limbs fighting in the war against Iraq. Tonight, information for anyone who would like to help this American hero.
Send a check or money order to Hilario Bermanis Fund, Bank of America, MD9-946-01-1. That's MD9-946-01-1, 8788 Georgia Average, Silver Spring, Maryland, 20910.
And this address can also be found on our Web site at CNN.com/Lou.
And, as always, we love hearing from you. E-mail us at LouDobbs@CNN.com any time.
That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us.
Tomorrow, on "Exporting America." We look at how many American jobs are being lost to H-1B visa holders. Congressman Tom Tancredo and president of the Information Technology Association of America, Harris Miller, face off here over H-1B visas. And former deputy Ambassador to Iraq Joe Wilson joins us to tell us why he is calling for the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld.
Please join us. For all of us here, good night from New York.
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Iraq War Before United Nations>
Aired September 23, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Betrayal at Guantanamo Bay. An American airman is accused of espionage and aiding the enemy, after working with al Qaeda and Taliban detainees. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
Recall reversal: the on-off recall election is on again, after the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals reverses itself. Bob Franken reports.
In tonight's special report, "Exporting America": the terrible human and economic price paid by one community, as business ships jobs overseas.
And contrary to what some would have you believe, the United Nations has never been less popular with Americans than right now. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, September 23. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush today issued a new challenge to the United Nations, to put the differences over Iraq aside and to take action against the spread of weapons of mass destruction. President Bush said the world cannot ignore the deadly combination of outlaw regimes, terrorist networks and weapons of mass murder. He also called upon the United Nations to help build democracy in Iraq.
Senior White House correspondent John King is in New York with the president and joins us now -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the president today told the General Assembly it was time to move forward. The president wants a new Security Council resolution that might bring more international troops and more international money into postwar Iraq.
But the president also made clear, as he wants to look forward, he wants to settle this debate on largely his own terms. The president was quite adamant today. He said even countries that opposed the war have a responsibility to ante up and help pay for Iraq's reconstruction. The president also said that he, the United States, not the United Nations, will determine the timetable for Iraq's political transition. And while acknowledging that many in the great hall at the General Assembly disagreed with him, the president was quite adamant in making the case that he was right to go to war to begin with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because there were consequences, because a coalition of nations acted to defend the peace and the credibility of the United Nations, Iraq is free. And today, we are joined by representatives of a liberated country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: After the speech, a face-to-face meeting with perhaps his most vocal critic before the war and now after the war, with the French president, Jacques Chirac. Mr. Chirac said he wants power transferred to Iraqis from the United States within a matter of weeks or months, at the most.
Just not going to happen, we are told, Mr. Bush said in response. He said, there is not an elected Iraqi government and that he will not transfer authority with 100,000 U.S. troops still on the ground, some $20 billion in U.S. reconstruction money going into Iraq over the next several months. Mr. Bush said he transfer authority, political authority, only when there's a new constitution and free elections.
And, Lou, that's the key sticking point as to whether the president can get a new resolution out of the Security Council, although -- and this is encouraging from the White House standpoint -- U.S. officials say President Chirac made clear that, while he continues to disagree with Mr. Bush, France will not stand in the way of a new resolution in the Security Council -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you -- John King, senior White House correspondent in New York with the president.
Well, as John King reported, French President Jacques Chirac today launched a fierce attack against U.S. policy when he spoke before the United Nations. Chirac said, no one can act alone in the name of all and no one can accept the anarchy of a society without rules.
Senior United Nations correspondent Richard Roth has that story -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Lou, before they can agree on a new resolution in the Security Council on Iraq, the leaders of France and the United States were still fighting the old war, as President Bush defended U.S. actions.
But French President Chirac, who spoke shortly after the U.S. president, delivered a blistering series of comments on the U.S. He said, the war on Iraq not sanctioned by the Security Council shook up the entire international system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): No one can claim the right to use force unilaterally or preventively. Conversely, in the face of mounting threats, states must be assured that the council has the appropriate means of evaluation and of collective action and that it has the will to act. We are all very committed to the sovereignty of states. But its scope can and should be limited in the case of serious violations of human rights and of humanitarian law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The French president wants the Security Council to look at actions by some states to stage preemptive attacks on others.
Later, at a lunch, President Chirac and Bush were both present. This is earlier in the day, as President Bush met with Secretary- General Annan. The two men discussed the Iraq issue and Afghanistan. It wasn't long, Lou, after this meeting that Secretary-General Annan also heaped criticism on the United States, without mentioning the state by name. He issued a scathing comment regarding a unilateral attack on Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: The council needs to consider how it will deal with the possibility that individual states may use force preemptively against perceived threats. Its members may need to begin a discussion on the criteria for an early authorization of coercive measures to address certain types of threats, for instance, terrorist groups armed with weapons of mass destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: This type of warning was issued by Annan last year, but it wasn't enough to stop the United States from attacking Iraq. There was also a lunch where the world leaders sat down. President Bush and Kofi Annan toasted each other at this lunch. During the event, the secretary-general of the U.N. said, there may be at these tables old friends, some meeting for the first time. They may have views different than yours on world affairs. But despite all differences, in effect, let's all make the world a better place.
But , Lou, the differences among the men and women in that room are still pretty stark on Iraq. And no one's sure exactly what's going to happen on this resolution that's still at least a week away -- Lou.
DOBBS: Richard, thank you very much -- Richard Roth, our senior United Nations correspondent.
As the president today traveled to the United Nations, there was an astonishing claim in an advertisement placed in several of this country's most influential newspapers. The advertisement suggests more Americans support the United Nations. But polling organizations have a far different story.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A glance at the newspaper this morning, "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post," would have you believe that -- quote -- "Most Americans think it's in our best interest to actively support the United Nations" -- unquote -- 82 percent, according to their headline.
However, the survey was done on behalf of the Better World Campaign, whose very purpose is to boost appreciation for the U.N. It is part of the Better World Fund, which was created with initial support from businessmen and philanthropist Ted Turner. Experts say other polls more commonly used come to quite the opposite conclusion. The U.N. is strongly out of favor with the American public.
NILE GARDINER, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: There have been several key opinion polls in the last few months which have indicated that the American people are becoming fed up with the inability of the United Nations to address the issues of major concern to the world in the 21st century. The failure of the U.N. to effectively deal with the Iraqi threat was symbolic, I believe, of potential long-term decline in the United Nations.
PILGRIM: A CNN/"USA Today/Gallup poll was conducted over the same timeframe, in late August. It found 60 percent of Americans think the United Nations is doing a poor job trying to solve the problems it has had to face, the worst public opinion rating on the U.N. since the survey began in 1953.
FRANK NEWPORT, EDITOR IN CHIEF, GALLUP POLL: There's no question that the U.N.'s lack of involvement, at least officially, with the Iraqi war last March affected the public's attitudes.
PILGRIM: Approval tanked early last year, as the Security Council dithered about action in Iraq. The data supports that. More than half the people polled, 55 percent, said U.N. lack of action on Iraq made them less favorable to the U.N. And 37 percent take that farther, saying the United States should decrease funding for the United Nations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, politicians may be willing to get back to business, as today's events at the U.N. may suggest. But it seems the public memory is a little bit longer than is politically convenient -- Lou.
DOBBS: An extraordinary claim by an organization supporting the United Nations, in bald-faced opposition to every poll that we've seen.
PILGRIM: They certainly do -- they exist to support the U.N. and the U.S.-U.N. relationship.
DOBBS: Nonetheless, there should be a certain amount of integrity in any of these things, no matter the cost.
Kitty, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim. That brings us to tonight's poll question: Is the United Nations today more relevant than a year ago? You may recall, a year ago, the president suggested that the United Nations was teetering on the brink of irrelevance. Vote yes or no. Please cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have results later in the show.
Coming up: A former presidential adviser says today's speech by President Bush simply did not go far enough to win the hearts and minds of other nations. David Gergen joins us.
Then: treason at Guantanamo Bay? A second member of the U.S. armed forces is suspected of espionage, new charges tonight. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.
And "Exporting America." It began with manufacturing. Now it seems no job in this country is safe. Jan Hopkins reports.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up: a recall reversal in California. As Arnold Schwarzenegger tonight takes questions from voters -- these are live pictures of an Ask Arnold event -- October 7, says the circuit court of appeals, will be, after all, Election Day. Bob Franken reports on the very latest twists in the story. CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein joins us.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: CEOs, business consultants and economists would like you to believe this country is exporting only manufacturing jobs. But the reality is far different. Millions of white-collar jobs as well are being exported overseas. And many communities in this country are paying a terrible price.
One such community is Buffalo, New York. It's a city that's already been hit with a loss of 25,000 steel jobs because of foreign competition. The pain goes far beyond the steel industry.
Jan Hopkins reports in our special report, "Exporting America."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAN HOPKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mike Hall is looking for a job. He worked for a call center with Sprint as a major client.
MICHAEL HALL, FORMER CALL CENTER WORKER: The call center in Buffalo had over 800 employees. And the call center was closed. And the work basically went to India, Puerto Rico and Mexico.
HOPKINS: Barry Waldman's call center handled Microsoft's technical assistance. Waldman also lost his job. BARRY WALDMAN, FORMER CALL CENTER WORKER: It's very difficult, especially in the computer industry, to bring in someone that has the technical skill or at least the knowledge of the product at $7 or $8 an hour in America, when you can get that -- they will line up for that in India.
HOPKINS: At the Buffalo job center, they're lining up for paying jobs.
COLLEEN CUMMINGS, BUFFALO EMPLOYMENT AND TRAINING CENTER: We do also have to help them get beyond that disappointment, and sometimes anger, that they weren't doing anything wrong. They were doing their jobs. They were doing them well. And the company, making business decisions, has chosen to go elsewhere.
HOPKINS: Consultants like Buffalo-based Peter Bloom are working with call centers, helping them cut costs, and showing them that there are cheaper options in other countries.
PETER BLOOM, CALL CENTER CONSULTANT: The actual pay is probably one-tenth in India or the Philippines as to what it is in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Debbie (ph). How may I help you?
HOPKINS: This BlueCross BlueShield call center in Buffalo is trying to you cut costs without cutting jobs. So far, it's worked, because customers like speaking to someone local.
PAULINE CATALDI, BLUECROSS BLUESHIELD OF WESTERN NEW YORK: When they call, it's like they're talking to their sister or their cousin. And there's a great sensitivity there. There's a lot of empathy there.
HOPKINS: That personal touch is often not enough for a company worried about the bottom line. Federal Reserve economists say these jobs aren't going to come back when the economy does.
RICHARD DEITZ, FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF NEW YORK: During this recession, we have seen a lot of change in employment that's been more structural, rather than cyclical. So a lot of the losses are going to be permanent.
HOPKINS: The workers left behind, like engineer Ken Thrum, are trying to figure out what to do.
KENNETH THRUM, JOB SEARCHER: I've done everything anybody has asked me, have been successful at it, never been fired from a job. But yet this is the second time it's hit me. And, unfortunately, it's hit me at a time in this history in this country that it's going to be tough for people like myself and for anybody who is trying to look for a job, a good-paying job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Workers like Ken Thrum understand that we live in a global economy, but he's forced to figure out yet again where he fits in. As for Buffalo, the city is in such bad shape financially that the governor of New York has named a financial control board to take over -- Lou.
DOBBS: And as terrible as the individual stories, almost as chilling is to hear the Federal Reserve say these job losses are permanent. It's just despicable.
HOPKINS: It's not cyclical.
DOBBS: The lack of a trade policy here.
HOPKINS: Right.
DOBBS: Jan, thanks -- Jan Hopkins.
The automobile industry is another example of how U.S. trade policy, or the lack of one, is hurting American workers. The United States is now running a huge trade deficit in cars and car parts. You might expect that, with countries such as Germany and Japan, that deficit to be huge. But there is also a deficit with Mexico, with Brazil and Taiwan.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you beat George Bush?
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A telling exchange in the Democratic presidential campaign, Howard Dean wants to link foreign trade to labor and environmental policy. But John Kerry, defending the U.S. auto industry, says, wait a minute. That would prevent Detroit from selling cars in the -- quote -- "developing world." That's a nice thought, but why isn't anybody worried about selling cars in the United States?
It is best market in the world. And last month, Toyota outsold Chrysler in the U.S. to become the third biggest player in the market. Look at the numbers. Forget developing markets. America is giving away its own market. Through July, the U.S. ran a $72 billion trade deficit in autos and auto parts. The U.S. runs huge deficits with Japan, Germany, and Canada. No surprise. But we also run huge deficits with Mexico, $15 billion through July, Brazil and Taiwan.
And China is on the rise as a factory for auto parts bound for elsewhere in the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Late today, a dramatic example of how these trends turn into lost jobs in America: DaimlerChrysler announcing it will not build a planned factory near Savannah, Georgia. Georgia officials had hoped that that plant would create thousands of jobs, the German company blaming a -- quote -- "difficult auto market." One of the difficulties is $15 billion of Mexican goods, auto goods, coming into this market.
DOBBS: It's extraordinary. And as we try to tally up the job losses here, it becomes all but impossible. The U.S. Commerce Department does not keep a record of these job losses, nor the balance and the effect of these deals that are created, with U.S. companies building cars overseas and foreign makers building them here.
Peter Viles, thank you.
Coming up next: an apparent betrayal at Guantanamo Bay. It's a second man now in custody charged with espionage. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.
And the recall race is back on again in California. Bob Franken will have the report. Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times" joins us.
And President Bush goes to the United Nations, pleading for help and asking nations to put aside differences and to help rebuild Iraq. David Gergen has advised presidents of both parties. He joins us tonight.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today said precision raids against terrorists and those still loyal to the former regime in Iraq will continue. Today, the United States launched an airstrike near Fallujah after members of the 82nd Airborne Division came under fire.
The military said the soldiers pursued their attackers into a building and set up a perimeter. The troops then called in air support. The coalition said one Iraqi was killed. Police and villagers said three people were killed.
There are no reports of any American casualties in that firefight. Central Command says the overall number of service men and women killed and wounded in Iraq has not changed since yesterday; 304 Americans have died since the beginning of the war, 191 in combat, 113 in accidents. Another 1,600 have been wounded, all but 320 of them by hostile fire.
The Pentagon today charged a U.S. airman who worked at the military prison in Guantanamo Bay with espionage and aiding the enemy. The airman worked as an Arabic translator with al Qaeda and Taliban detainees. A Muslim chaplain in the U.S. Army is also now in custody on suspicion of espionage and treason.
Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has the report -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, Senior Airman Ahmad al-Halabi is indeed charged with spying and aiding the enemy at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where he did work as a translator at the Naval base where more than 600 detainees are being held, including, of course, many al Qaeda suspects. Now, officials tell CNN that he had been reported to be acting suspiciously. An investigation began. They found unauthorized classified material on his laptop computer. When he was confronted with that information, he had no plausible explanation for why he had that material. And then it was actually on July 23 that he was arrested and taken into custody.
Now, al-Halabi is being held at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. And he is facing more than 30 charges. Those charges include espionage, aiding the enemy, false statements, bank fraud, and failing to obey orders. But, of course, there's a much deeper issue here now. Investigators urgently want to know if he had any connection to Captain James Yee. He, of course, is the Islamic Army chaplain who has not yet been charged, but is being held in Charleston, South Carolina, on suspicion of espionage and treason, after he completed a tour at Guantanamo Bay working as a chaplain, ministering to the Islamic detainees there.
What they want to know, of course, is whether the two men had any connection. Now, today, New York Senator Charles Schumer held a press conference about all of this. He says he is very angry that the two groups that certify Muslim clerics for the U.S. military are the subject of a federal investigation themselves.
Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: This fact is incredible. That a man who ends up as chaplain to potentially the most dangerous terrorists we have in our custody was trained by groups who might well have a link to terrorism almost defies the imagination. And yet, that is what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: And, Lou, sources tell CNN, as the investigation continues into Airman al-Halabi and Chaplain Yee, there is every reason to believe, they tell us, that there will be more arrests -- Lou.
DOBBS: This investigation, Barbara, it is far broader than these two suspects.
STARR: Indeed, Lou.
Sources are telling CNN they do expect a -- with some certainty, there will be at least one more arrest, possibly some others. What they don't know, Lou, is whether they are facing a broad espionage conspiracy at Guantanamo Bay, to be very blunt about it, whether al Qaeda has penetrated the U.S. military, or are they simply facing a number of people that were working alone and there was a coincidence of events, if you will, here. They don't have the answer to that question yet.
DOBBS: Barbara, thank you very much -- Barbara Starr. Coming up next: President Bush challenged the United Nations to step in and help rebuild Iraq. Former presidential adviser David Gergen says the presentation was good, the reception not. He's our guest.
And the show will go on in California. Bob Franken reports. Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times" joins us.
And a college football player lines up against the NFL in court -- that story and some thoughts from NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
Stay with us.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Iraq's new leaders are showing the openness and tolerance that democracy requires. And they're also showing courage. Yet, every young democracy needs the help of friends. Now the nation of Iraq needs and deserves our aid. And all nations of goodwill should step forward and provide that support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And one senior lawmaker called upon the United States to provide aid to itself. Tonight's quote comes from Capitol Hill, where a U.S. senator shared his biggest concern about rebuilding Iraq, saying, "I would point out the security problems are still severe. We see that every day with the tragic loss of another American soldier, another attack. You have to get the security situation under control, which, in my view, means more American troops" -- that from U.S. Senator John McCain.
Former presidential adviser David Gergen said President Bush is unlikely to win any hearts and minds overseas with his speech to the U.N. today. But he says the president did a good job of presenting the American view of the world to the United Nations. David Gergen joins me now, David, the director of the Center For Public Leadership at the Kennedy School at Harvard. He served as adviser to the Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Clinton administrations.
David, good to have you with us.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you, Lou. Good to be here again.
DOBBS: The president today didn't light any fires, as far as I could tell, with the assembly. What's your take?
GERGEN: I think you're right, Lou.
If the president were not required to go to the U.N. because of annual tradition, I think there's a good question whether he would have appeared at all. The U.S. government had hoped, his administration had hoped, that, by the day, before the president's speech, the Security Council at the U.N. would already have approved a resolution. And, of course, it has not.
And, moreover, the signals that the president has received from other countries about money and troops have been disappointing. So I think the president went into today's speech with low expectations. And he offered very little in the way of new concessions that would bring other countries over. He did do a good job in showcasing America's engagement and support in many parts of the U.N. activities, such as HIV/AIDS, where the United States, as Secretary Powell has pointed out, has taken the world lead.
But on Iraq, clearly, the president is not expecting much from other nations. And, increasingly, from the administration's point of view, it begins to appear that the U.N. is rather a sideshow.
DOBBS: A sideshow. A year ago before the United Nations, he used the world irrelevance. Have we moved to a position where this president was making an obligatory gesture to the United Nations, all the while suggesting that this administration, at least, if not this government, for some time, considers the United Nations irrelevant?
GERGEN: I don't think he considers it irrelevant, but I think he considers it marginal.
He clearly does not want to do what other nations want as a price for giving a lot of money and sending in a lot of troops. And that is to give up political control over Iraq. Everyone agrees. Kofi Annan agrees that the U.S. should remain in charge of the military operations in Iraq. But other nations, France, Germany and others, are saying, if you want us to send a lot of money and send a lot of troops, then we want, through the United Nations, to take over political control, in effect, to replace Jerry Bremer as the lead player there, take over that control.
And what's that all about, Lou? It's in part, the United States ultimately wants a transfer of sovereignty to Iraq, but not just transfer of sovereignty. The United States wants it transferred to a government that's going to be pro-U.S., pro-Western.
DOBBS: Well, the United States would be utterly stupid if it did not, don't you think?
GERGEN: Well, I think there's a major case for that, and especially if you think you're going to put in radical clerics who would run the place, and you might see a worst-case scenario, see a return to power of the Saddam elite.
So the U.S. has a -- it's totally understandable the president's trying to do this. But it does put the burden on us. And it means, we've got to pay the bills. Ours are the soldiers who are going to get shot. And we're in a race for time right now, Lou.
DOBBS: What is the race against time?
GERGEN: The real issue is not what happens at the U.N. The real issue is what happens on the ground in Iraq, because the race against time is that the people of Iraq are turning increasingly sour toward the U.S.
DOBBS: David, you are one of the most astute political observers. You have watched this president a year ago talk about the United Nations risking irrelevance, taking on a unilateral, if you're a critic, or a bold move to remove Saddam Hussein from power, if you are a supporter of the Bush administration and its policy.
GERGEN: Right.
DOBBS: Today, five months after major combat operations ended, this president is not mounting an emotional statement for the American people that we're going to do great things in Iraq. He talked about this spring, as did his advisers, the democracy, not only in Iraq, but in the Middle East, to show what the United States can achieve in a positive and constructive way, to build bridges and roads and schools and to put that country back to work.
Are you surprised this president has not appealed to the higher and the best instincts and motives of the American people to get things done?
GERGEN: I am surprised.
And it was only today in the U.N. speech that we heard our soldiers are building 1,000 schools there in Iraq. That, to me, is very appealing. We didn't -- at least I hadn't heard the administration trumpet that before. We're building hospitals. Those are good things to do. But the -- my sense is, Lou, that they have been very surprised about how badly this has gone. This has been much more difficult than they expected.
They're not willing to admit -- and I think this has been an error on their part -- that they did not anticipate this properly. At a time when they need to rally the country, they've got to admit a few errors and then send in, as -- I think John McCain is right. We need to get the situation on the ground turned around quickly. We can't wait. If we need more troops, need more money, do it.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: The secretary of defense, who managed, through the general staff, of course, of the U.S. military, a brilliant operation in the war against Saddam Hussein, says to this day that we do not need more divisions, even though we have troops deployed in over 100 countries around the world, that we do not need to go back to the old school of military power, that is, boots on the ground, simply swift, effective, light-striking forces. What do you make of that?
GERGEN: Well, I ask this question. If the United States does not need more troops on the ground, why are we going to the U.N. and asking for more international troops to be sent?
Clearly, the president feels we need -- there need to be more troops from some country in there. And if they're not going to send them, it is going to have to be our job to get it done, because, right now, the president says we're making good progress in Iraq. All the reports that come back say, at least around Baghdad and nearby environs, the situation is more treacherous than it was a month ago, two months ago. The number of people showing up dead in the morgues of Baghdad today is twice as high as it was three, four months ago, people who died by unexplained violent means.
DOBBS: David Gergen, as always, good talking with you. Thanks for being here.
GERGEN: It's good to talk with you. Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now. Our poll question this evening: Is the United Nations today more relevant than a year ago, in your opinion, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have results a little later in the show.
Tonight's thought is about diplomacy and the diplomatic process: "Foreign relations are like human relations. They are endless. The solution of one problem usually leads to another" -- that from journalist James Reston.
Still ahead here: October 7 will be Election Day, after all, in California, another dramatic twist in this continuing political drama, or, as some would suggest, farce. Tonight, candidates such as Arnold Schwarzenegger are campaigning, and they are campaigning hard. These are live pictures of an Ask Arnold event. We'll have a report from Bob Franken in California. We'll be joined by "Los Angeles Times" columnist/CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein.
Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The California recall election is back on again tonight. A panel of 11 federal judges today voted unanimously to overturn a previous decision by three of the members of that court to delay the election. Six California counties will now be allowed to use the punch card ballot system that some say is unfair.
Bob Franken joins us now from Los Angeles with the report -- Bob?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think we could probably sum up the judges' ruling as, well, life isn't fair.
The judges ruled that, even though there may be some inequities in the fact that the punch card ballot machines are going to be used in just six of the counties, the fact is that there was a larger interest in letting California go ahead with its election after millions of dollars have been spent and thousands of absentee ballots have gone out.
What was so startling about this was that it happened so quickly. Less than 16 hours after they completed their 11-judge panel hearing, the judges ruled. And it was unanimous. The election should go forward. It was unanimous. And it was really the end of the road for the American Civil Liberties Union, who realized that, if they went to the Supreme Court, they were not going to really have a chance of getting a high court review.
So the ACLU announced this afternoon, it's over. The challenges to the election are over. And barring a surprise -- of course, that's a huge if in this election -- but barring a surprise, the wire will be going -- the one that they're going down to comes next week -- or, rather, in two weeks on October 7.
In between that is tomorrow's debate, the Super Bowl of debates, according to Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's the only one he's appearing in, Lou. It's the one in which questions have been submitted in advance, the only one he's appearing in so far. And, of course, a lot is going to depend on how that goes. And there's now pressure on one of the top Republicans, Tom McClintock or Schwarzenegger, to pull out.
And it's really mostly aimed at McClintock. Some of it comes from Darrell Issa, who is the congressman who put up so much of the money to finance the recall to begin with. He is saying -- and he admits it's just for attention -- that, if the Republicans split the vote, it would mean that Cruz Bustamante would be the winner, the Democrat. And he's saying, vote against the recall; Bustamante would be even worse than Gray Davis.
As I said, he's doing that just to draw attention, something, of course, which is desperately needed out here in California, Lou.
DOBBS: To draw attention to what or whom, Bob?
FRANKEN: Everything and anybody.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Bob Franken, thank you.
Joining us from Washington for more on the California recall, the race for the White House, CNN political analyst/"Los Angeles Times" columnist Ron Brownstein.
Ron, good to have you with us.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Lou.
DOBBS: This decision today, which is remarkable, first, because three of the judges who delayed the election fell in line with eight of their colleagues on the 9th Circuit and said, no delay. That's remarkable by any standard in and of itself.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I not sure that it was the same judges.
But there were eight Democratic judges who joined with three Republican judges in a very emphatic decision. Lou, I talked to all the campaigns, pretty much all the campaigns today. And I think there's a broad consensus in California, apart from the plaintiffs in this case, that it's time to call the question. This election was supposed to be a short race to the wire. But, in fact, it feels like it's been around for a long time already.
And I think people are ready to make this decision one way or the other.
DOBBS: And it appears right now, at least, that the winds are shifting certainly in California, Gray Davis picking up support, support for the recall election ebbing, at least according to some of the recent polls. Give us your best analysis of the most recent poll numbers.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
Well, when you look at it, Gray Davis is making progress. I think that's pretty undeniable. But whether he's making enough progress to get over the top, we simply don't know. This is going to be very close one way or the other. You have two big facts here. It's a Democratic-leaning state. And Gray Davis remains extremely unpopular.
His disapproval rating, people who think he's doing a bad job as governor, is still up to 65 percent in the most recent poll. And part of what has happened, Lou, is, he's narrowed the gap a little bit by bringing back Democrats. He still probably has to make some more progress among independents. So one Davis adviser said to me today: We're making progress, but we're not over the hump.
And I think that pretty much characterizes where they are.
DOBBS: The Republicans, as Bob Franken reported, Darrell Issa saying that one of them has to drop out, either McClintock or Schwarzenegger, within the next 48 hours. What do you make of that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's a very severe demand.
Look, McClintock certainly wants to stay in and have his shot at the debate. One of the things that conservatives have felt is that they need -- they have argued they need McClintock there as an insurance policy in case Schwarzenegger does not perform well under the spotlight. And, of course, tomorrow is going to be the sole debate that he's participating in. He's the focus of it, both positive and negative.
Certainly, he's going to get the most attacks from the other candidates. But he also has the most to gain, if he can reassure voters that he's up to the job.
DOBBS: And, Ron, let's turn to another matter, upcoming matter, 10 candidates now for the Democratic presidential nomination. George Bush's approval rating has just plummeted to its lowest level since he took office.
Is this a real opportunity now for the Democrats, or is it simply volatility in early polling?
BROWNSTEIN: No, I think the two things are related.
George Bush, look, as you pointed out on the show, has not had a lot of good news lately. He's at risk of having a net loss of jobs over his term. There's not much good news coming out of Iraq. The federal budget deficit is reaching record levels. And, on Friday, the Census Bureau is almost certain to report a significant increase in poverty. It's not surprising that the numbers are going down.
And because the numbers are going down, Lou, I think there's a lot of interest on the Democratic side in finding someone who can stand up and be a strong general election candidate. That's where Wesley Clark fits in. He's had very good timing here, very fortunate timing. Howard Dean is the only Democrat who has really shown any momentum over the last several months, as we've talked about before on the show. But there are still a lot of doubts among Democrats about whether he can be effective in the general. So there comes Clark filling that vacuum, potentially.
DOBBS: Filling a vacuum and filling it with blinding power, his numbers almost twice that of the nearest runner-up in the most recent poll we did. Is this the kind of strength you expect to stand for Wesley Clark?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think we're going to have to wait and see on that, Lou.
It's a very powerful number. But you still have to see what's going on in Iowa and New Hampshire, rather than the national polls, because there, the candidates have more independent support. And that's where Clark really will have a tougher climb.
DOBBS: Ron Brownstein, thanks for being with us.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, a conservative or a liberal, this next story will amaze you.
People who have not respected immigration laws in this country are now demanding equal treatment under the law. They have begun a cross-country demonstration for those rights, in fact. As we have reported on this show, millions of high-paying American jobs are being exported out of this country. And many illegal aliens are filling low-paying jobs within our borders.
Today, nearly 1,000 immigrant workers began a 12-day cross- country bus trip. They call it a freedom ride. And they're modeling their action after the freedom riders from the civil rights movement. The group is asking for amnesty for millions of illegal aliens, workers who have entered the country illegally, who have broken immigration laws, and now claim they're being treated unjustly.
The group does not ask the immigration status of riders who join, but they do admit many are what they call undocumented. Susan Sarandon, by the way, Martin Sheen, labor unions, and several U.S. senators are among the more than 1,000 sponsors who have raised $1.5 million for this trip.
Coming up next: a college football player blocked from what he wants to do. And now he's tackling the NFL in court. We'll have that story and a great deal more. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Nearly one million people are still without power tonight along the East Coast, five days after Hurricane Isabel struck. Storms along the East Coast today hampered efforts to restore power to frustrated Isabel victims from Pennsylvania to North Carolina. Nearly four million people in eastern Denmark and southern Sweden were without power for more than three hours today, the outage caused by a faulty transmission line separating the two countries.
Hurricane Marty battered Mexico's Baja, California, peninsula with 100-mile-an-hour winds and rains. One man is dead tonight. Thousands more have been forced from their homes because of widespread flooding. That storm moved back out to the Gulf.
To a storm of a different kind tonight: Former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett is charging ahead again, but this time in a New York court. The suspended collegiate player is suing the National Football League, asking a judge to void a league rule that prohibits players from entering the NFL draft until three years after leaving high school. Earlier today month, commissioner Paul Tagliabue told this show he would defend the league's rules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL TAGLIABUE, NFL COMMISSIONER: I think that our rule is very Well crafted. And it serves everyone in sports, including the players, very well. So we would defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: CNN Sports' Larry Smith has been following the story, of course, and joins us now.
Larry, this is a remarkable development.
LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is, Lou.
In fact, one name to keep in mind, Spencer Haywood. In 1970, he challenged the NBA's rule of not allowing underclassmen to join the NBA. And he won. And that opened the door for many younger men, teenagers and men who were not college graduate, did not finish their college eligibility to go into the professional ranks.
This is unique, though, because the NFL is such a physical sport. Clarett certainly physically capable size-wise. He's 6 feet tall, 230 pounds, very well built. But this is a very touchy issue for the NFL, because they certainly would not want to set a precedent and allow just anyone to come in before their three years are up, three years out of high school. So it's interesting to see how this is going to turn out.
DOBBS: And if there is a decision here by the NFL, there's no way they can do a one-off. This will be, whether that's what anybody wants or not, a precedent, will it not?
SMITH: It will set a precedent, just like in the 1970s, when we saw Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins and Bill Willoughby come out of high school directly to the NBA. It didn't happen for a long time. But once someone does it, a Kevin Garnett or a Kobe Bryant, then, every year, you'll see more people do it. I'm talking NBA.
But, in the NFL, certainly, you'll see it. If one person does it, someone will come out and say, hey, I had a great freshman year. I'm only 19. Why can't I do it?
It will be interesting to see. They may try to adopt something, maybe. And I'm speculating here. Something kind of like what baseball does, which says, you can turn pro after high school. But if you enter college, you must then go through your junior year, if you go to a four-year school, or at least through two years if you go to a junior college. So the precedent here can be set. And it can be a landmark decision, no matter which way it goes.
DOBBS: Well, Larry, this has everything to do with what is fair. It seems remarkable that a league could keep anybody out of the draft. Secondly, football is the biggest money maker for collegiate sports. And it looks like those young men who work so hard to support their universities should be, well, able to get some sort of reward, at least.
SMITH: Yes, certainly.
And, Lou, I'll tell you what. If I could jump in one moment, that's one thing you know that the Clarett lawyers are going to argue. And they're going to say, listen, he has helped Ohio State make millions of dollars for college football and for the university. Why can't he make millions for himself?
DOBBS: And I suspect that we'll see that issue broaden across all of collegiate football, at least, if not collegiate sports itself.
Larry Smith, thank you.
SMITH: Sure. Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll have the results of tonight's poll. And many of you have written in asking about Hilario Bermanis, one of the military heroes we featured on this broadcast and how you can help. When we continue, we'll have your thoughts on a host of issues.
Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll. The question: Is the United Nations today more relevant than a year ago? Sixty-nine percent of you said yes; 31 percent said no.
On Wall Street today, stocks rallied for the first time in three days, the Dow up 41 points, almost, the Nasdaq adding 27 points, the S&P 500 up more than six.
Christine Romans now with the market -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Dow took back more than a third of that loss from yesterday. And volume improved today.
The currency worries on the back-burner today. And it was earnings that were in focus. Three brokers, Lou, reported earnings growth today. Morgan Stanley and Lehman weathered that summer bond drought. But Goldman Sachs' revenue from fixed-income currency and commodity trading fell sharply. All of them beating the Street, as they say, by anywhere from a dime to 50 cents. It makes you wonder what good earnings estimates are if they are so far off. And they are off every quarter from the brokers.
DOBBS: Who puts those estimates out?
ROMANS: The brokers. The analysts of the brokers.
Telecom stocks tumbled, after Verizon shaved its earning targets for the year. And, Lou, Verizon announcing a plan to limit executive severance pay. Qwest, by the way, another telecom, said it will be filing its 2000, 2001, and 2002 financial reports as soon as possible.
DOBBS: Why not today?
ROMANS: And defense stocks fell, after Smith Barney said earnings would peak in 2005 for the group, based on its survey of declining support for more military spending.
And news now from a defunct software company that affects a very prominent media company. Two former executives of PurchasePro.com have pleaded guilty to fraud, this in connection with a scheme to inflate sales and falsely credit a major media company, as the Justice Department says, with customer referrals. As we know, the Justice Department, the government, is in the midst of a probe into how AOL accounted for revenue and profits.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much -- Christine Romans.
That's AOL Time Warner, I believe, overall, isn't it?
ROMANS: AOL Time Warner, yes.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Beverly MacKenzie wrote about the immigrant workers' freedom ride: "An estimated 1,000 illegal aliens and their supporters are traveling across the United States, culminating in Washington, D.C. and New York City, demanding amnesty, open borders, in-state tuition, general public assistance, and driver's license, which will further burden and insult American taxpayers."
Many of you wrote in about our series of special reports, "Exporting America."
Fred Siena of South Elgin, Illinois: "It appalls me to hear that corporate executives and investors from American-based companies are willing to sacrifice the jobs and futures of American workers in order to improve the bottom line. How selfish, greedy, and un-American."
Jeff Marx of Greenwood, Indiana: "Please continue your reporting on the outsourcing of American jobs, especially the white-collar ones. This topic needs to become a major election issue. If not, we will all be asking, do you want fries with that?"
Bob Mobley of Fort Lee, New Jersey: "You call it exporting America. I call it economic treason. These corporate executives who export jobs are economic traders. Economic patriots should boycott their corporations. Let's put America first and stop giving our country away."
And many have written in to ask how you can help Army Specialist Hilario Bermanis. He lost three limbs fighting in the war against Iraq. Tonight, information for anyone who would like to help this American hero.
Send a check or money order to Hilario Bermanis Fund, Bank of America, MD9-946-01-1. That's MD9-946-01-1, 8788 Georgia Average, Silver Spring, Maryland, 20910.
And this address can also be found on our Web site at CNN.com/Lou.
And, as always, we love hearing from you. E-mail us at LouDobbs@CNN.com any time.
That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us.
Tomorrow, on "Exporting America." We look at how many American jobs are being lost to H-1B visa holders. Congressman Tom Tancredo and president of the Information Technology Association of America, Harris Miller, face off here over H-1B visas. And former deputy Ambassador to Iraq Joe Wilson joins us to tell us why he is calling for the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld.
Please join us. For all of us here, good night from New York.
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