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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Trash Politics in California; Economy Back on Track?; Interview With Yankee's Pitcher Roger Clemens
Aired October 03, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, October 3. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
The California recall election is setting a new standard in trash politics. One day after Arnold Schwarzenegger apologized for bad behavior toward women, following an article in "The "Los Angeles Times" come new allegations. Now, with only four days remaining before the election, ABC News and "The New York Times" report that Schwarzenegger expressed at least partial admiration for Adolf Hitler.
Bob Franken reports from Los Angeles -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To put this in perspective, this is the producer of the movie "Pumping Iron" reflecting on quotes that he recollects from Arnold Schwarzenegger back in 1977, quotes that were put into a book.
These are the quotes, according to producer George Butler, in which it sounds like Schwarzenegger is expressing some admiration for Adolf Hitler. Here's what he said: "I admired Hitler" -- according to Butler, he said: "I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."
Well, it was enough to make Arnold Schwarzenegger depart from his message and respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I cannot imagine, because, from the time I was a kid on, I always disliked everything that this regime stood for. And when I came to America, it was the same thing. I think that Hitler was a disgusting villain, dictator, and he has caused so much harm in the world. And we have to make sure that it never happens again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Butler went on to say in "The New York Times" article that he believed that Schwarzenegger was just really uttering the rantings of somebody who was extremely immature and that he quickly grew up. Peter Davis, who was an associate of theirs, said that Schwarzenegger quickly switched to make John F. Kennedy his hero. Of course, he's now married to somebody from the Kennedy family.
Now, Schwarzenegger is out campaigning today with Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York. And that raises a couple of interesting questions. In an interview that Giuliani did with WCBS-TV in New York on August 8, he expressed some real apprehension about recalls. He said: "It doesn't seem like it's good for government. No, I think the provision is a provision that probably nobody ever thought would be used this way. It shouldn't be there. The idea of a very, very small number of people being able to recall a governor is a very big mistake."
Giuliani's people now say that he was only speaking conceptually, Lou, that the recall is a reality moving forward and he's a big admirer of Arnold Schwarzenegger's -- Lou.
DOBBS: As they say, it is, after all, politics.
Bob, one would have to say that they lived in lala land not to be skeptical about the timing of all of these negative reports in California.
FRANKEN: Well, of course, a lot of people say that's where we are, No. 1.
No. 2, these kinds of things just have a way of developing, say those who are arguing that this is not some plot to get Arnold Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger has suggested that this is just too much coincidence. But there is another side to this. "The Washington Post," in 1992, waited until three weeks after an election to report on sexual harassment charges against Senator Bob Packwood, which were later the charges that resulted in his being -- his leaving the Senate.
So there is always that dilemma, say the news organizations. But, on the other side, there are those who will say, isn't it convenient that this is such a coincidence that it happens right up next to the election?
DOBBS: Bob Franken, thank you very much, reporting from Los Angeles.
Arnold Schwarzenegger has now apologized for his history of offensive conduct toward women. And his wife, Maria Shriver, has supported him throughout. Today, she called upon voters to follow her example, support her husband.
Frank Buckley reports from Newport Beach, California -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Maria Shriver very passionate in her support for Arnold Schwarzenegger, her husband, here in a -- before a group of about 200 largely Republican women.
But her only reference to the allegations of mistreatment of women when she told the group that: You can either listen to people who knew my husband for five seconds 30 years ago or you can listen to me.
Meanwhile, one of the women who, of the six in "The "Los Angeles Times" article who alleged that they were either mistreated sexually or there was some sort of inappropriate sexual contact, appeared at a news conference put on by a group opposing Arnold Schwarzenegger's candidacy. Elaine Stockton says she was touched by Schwarzenegger in 1975 at a bodybuilding gym in Venice, while her husband worked out at that gym.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELAINE STOCKTON, SCHWARZENEGGER ACCUSER: I was just there watching him work out. The gym was rather full. And Arnold passed me by and he groped my breast. It completely caught me off guard. I was just shocked. And it took me a while to come to my senses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: Here in Orange County, meanwhile, Maria Shriver enjoyed a very warm welcome from this group of women, receiving a standing ovation, both at the beginning and at the end of her presentation.
She did not talk about "The L.A. Times" articles or about the women who said they had been touched or humiliated by Schwarzenegger. And in a brief news conference with reporters after her presentation, she disputed that characterization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA SHRIVER, WIFE OF ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER: I have met thousands and thousands of women who have come up to me and said they have worked with him, they have worked for him, alongside, and he has been an extraordinary gentleman.
This is -- he's been here for 35 years, and I would really dispute that. And I think his statement speaks for itself. And the longer -- I'm not going to go down this road, because I don't believe in gutter politics and I don't believe in gutter journalism. So I think you can keep asking me that question, but you're not going to get a response from me, because I believe in taking the high road. And I believe he's handled himself in this situation in the best possible manner.
He apologized. And that's courageous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: A number of women's groups here in California disagree. In fact, they are planning a protest to get under way this evening in 10 cities across California, urging Arnold Schwarzenegger to get out of the race, also urging Californians to vote against the recall, in effect voting against Arnold Schwarzenegger -- Lou.
DOBBS: Frank, I'll ask you the same question I asked of Bob Franken. This is taking on certainly the appearances, one has to believe absolutely not in coincidences to think otherwise, a smear campaign in the final days of this campaign. What is the reaction there?
BUCKLEY: Well, I talked to a Republican political consultant about this just after "The Times" article appeared yesterday.
And his view of it was, this is a classic hit piece, is what he said to me, in the sense that it goes after a person's character, it comes in the final days of the campaign. It's very difficult for a campaign or a candidate to overcome those sorts of personal attacks in the last few moments.
Now, having said that, we should say that we talked to Gray Davis. We talked to his aides yesterday. They all very strongly denied being the source of this. And "The "Los Angeles Times" itself, the newspaper that broke this story, said very clearly in its article yesterday and also today that none of the rival candidates came to the newspaper with this information. This was information that the paper developed on its own. So that's the newspaper's characterization of how this article came out -- Lou.
DOBBS: Frank Buckley, thank you very much.
Well, no one is following this recall election more closely than CNN political analyst and "Los Angeles Times" columnist Ron Brownstein, who joins me now.
Ron, this is taking on very ugly tones here in the final days. What's your reaction?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is.
It is a very personal finish. I think "The L.A. Times" story, although, is a very strong piece of journalism, you know? The accounts in it are very detailed, very specific, covering a number of years. And what we've learned over, I think, the last two decades is that this sort of information about politicians, especially as they move higher on the ladder, is going to come out. And it really is the role of the public to decide what it means to them.
Whether it's going to matter to a large number of voters or not, I can't tell you. But I do think it's the responsibility of the press in a pattern of behavior like this to report on it.
DOBBS: Yes, a pattern that's been documented in "Oui" magazine, "Premiere" magazine, was brought up before.
And, Ron, I want to mention, as we're talking, we're looking at Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is in Bakersfield at a campaign rally. We may go back to him in a moment. Let's go to the journalism issue here, Ron, just for a second, since you raised it.
BROWNSTEIN: Sure.
DOBBS: You and I both know that the editors had to really agonize over this story, coming, as it did, five days before the election, don't you think?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
Well, look, I don't really have any particular inside information on the process, because they do keep it pretty compartmentalized.
DOBBS: Sure.
BROWNSTEIN: As at most major papers or at CNN from the investigation unit from the rest of the paper.
But I'm sure they did. And they went through a lot of doting I's and crossing T's to feel that they had the story. And they put it out when they felt they had it. And, as Frank Buckley mentioned, I think the most important fact in terms of the election here is the explicit point in the story that neither any campaign, no campaign came to them with this information, nor did any of the women come to them. They found it through shoe leather and reporting.
And, as you mentioned, through something like the "Premiere" story that came out a couple years ago, allegations have been out there. And, indeed, more surfaced today.
DOBBS: Ron, if you don't mind staying by there, if I may ask you to do so, we're going to Arnold Schwarzenegger. He's talking right now.
Let's just see quickly if he is responding.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SCHWARZENEGGER: The crowds have been building. We started out with 2,000, then 3,000. Then, they went to 4,000, then to 5,000. And today, we have 7,500 people here. Thank you.
DOBBS: You see to the left of Arnold Schwarzenegger, there at the podium, that is former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, there to support Schwarzenegger's candidacy.
SCHWARZENEGGER: You have this wonderful life. You have show business ahead of you, movie contracts. You have everything. Why would you get into politics? You know they'll try to tear you down, try to tear down your character.
You know what I say to them? And I say this to you. Everything that I have is because of California. California is the place of opportunities. It's the Golden State.
DOBBS: That's a pretty good exit line to depart our coverage from Arnold Schwarzenegger there in California.
Ron Brownstein, we're back. And I would like to ask you, he raised a question here. He is really in the middle of a fight here. You suppose he does have any second thoughts at all?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think the main thing that we can conclude from this last week is that an event like this is probably not going to end October 7. The fight will continue.
You have Democrats here, serious Democrats, talking about a re- recall effort, in light of these allegations. It wouldn't be inconceivable to see more of these sorts of things surface after an election. We're in a very bitter era, as you know, Lou, in American politics. We're seeing both sides using any weapon that is available. The recall itself was an extraordinary event. There had been nothing like it in this country for over 80 years. And I think it would be naive to assume it will end now.
DOBBS: Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that very quickly.
In the latest Field poll, 56 percent favor the recall. Now, with a reasonable margin of error, that doesn't suggest to me that this is a done deal that Gray Davis will be recalled. What's your take?
BROWNSTEIN: I think it's going to be hard for him to survive.
The amount of coverage these allegations are getting out here have got to take some effect on Schwarzenegger. But he has a significant cushion, both on the ballot and the recall. The bottom line, Lou, is that two-thirds of the voters consistently have said all year they don't like the job Gray Davis is doing as governor. That makes it very hard for him to survive, not impossible, I suppose, but extremely difficult. We'll have to see almost a complete meltdown over the last weekend.
DOBBS: Amongst the candidates, Senator Tom McClintock, Ron, he seems to have managed to stay above the fray. What's your opinion?
BROWNSTEIN: I saw, though, he was quoted somewhere as saying that, if the allegations were true, perhaps Schwarzenegger should consider stepping aside.
McClintock has done himself good as a future leader of the Republican in the state, of the conservative wing of the party. He performed very credibly in every debate. As you say, he kept to the high road. And he's someone who is going to be a force in Republican politics in the future. If Schwarzenegger is the governor, you do have the potential for a moderate-conservative tension.
And how McClintock handles that, whether he becomes an ally of Schwarzenegger or perhaps a leader of opposition if Arnold Schwarzenegger tries to cooperate too much with Democratic majorities in the legislature if he is elected, that would be a very interesting play to see how that plays out.
DOBBS: Ron, thank you very much -- Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst, "Los Angeles Times" columnist. And Ron will be good enough to be back with us next Monday and Tuesday, of course, Election Day.
That brings us to our poll. The question: Who do you think should be the next governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Gray Davis, other, or simply don't care? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have results coming up. Still ahead here: a new deadline tonight in the hunt for the official who leaked the name of a CIA officer. Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House.
And our continuing special report on "The Great American Giveaway." Tonight: how your personal financial, your medical information and other personal information may now be in the hands of foreign companies and foreign governments.
And baseball legend Roger Clemens tonight. I'll have an exclusive interview with the Rocket on the eve of a critical pitching performance for him and the New York Yankees.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today defended again his decision to go to war against Saddam Hussein. The White House is also under pressure over the leak of a CIA officer's identity to a syndicated newspaper columnist, Robert Novak.
Today, the administration told staff to hand over all documents relevant to the criminal investigation by Tuesday.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the report -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the White House and the president are really trying to get control of these stories, President Bush returning from his day trip to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He was talking about the economy, doing some fund-raising.
But before he even left the trip, he was really competing with the headlines in "The New York Times," "The Washington Post," all talking about chief weapons hunter David Kay's report, no smoking gun, no weapons of mass destruction found, but President Bush emphasizing today that it's an interim report. They expect more from six to nine months later, also saying that Kay's report did, however, prove that Saddam Hussein had a weapons program and that he had the intent to reconstitute that program, in defiance of the world community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He says that the WMD program involved thousands of people, billions of dollars and was elaborately shielded by security and deception operations that continued even beyond the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In other words, he's saying Saddam Hussein was a threat, a serious danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And, Lou, as you know, of course, the White House also under investigation as well for that leak.
Joe Wilson, former Ambassador Joe Wilson, who had critical of the president when it comes to weapons of mass destruction, the program as well as the war, his wife, a CIA agent who had been essentially outed in the media, the investigation to the White House, today, what happened was that they had two memos that were sent to all White House staffers by the White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, giving details about the documents that are going to be required to turn over.
It said that all documents that relate in any way to former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, his trip to Niger in February 2002, or his wife's purported relationship with the Central Intelligence Agency must be handed over, as well as all documents that relate to contact with the news media when it comes to all of that. We should also let you know, Lou, that there was a letter of certification for everybody to sign to make sure what they were saying was in fact accurate or face criminal penalties.
And also, we are told that the next phase of this investigation is going to be interviews with senior-level White House officials -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you very much -- Suzanne Malveaux reporting from the White House.
Turning now to our series of special reports, "The Great American Giveaway." Tonight, we look at the huge lapses in public policy that are giving away American prosperity, security, and perhaps our quality of life.
Tonight, we look at how the blind rush to ship American jobs around the world is threatening the business secrets of corporate America and the privacy of Americans.
Peter Viles has the story for us -- Peter.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, we have talked repeatedly on this show about how free trade really is not free.
There are numerous costs associated with it. And when the trade is in technology, one of those costs privacy, quite possibly your privacy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VILES (voice-over): If you have X-rays taken, you wouldn't want your co-workers to know the results. If you order new checks, you would just as soon nobody knows your account balance. Your tax returns, there's something you really want kept private.
But some work on X-rays at Massachusetts General Hospital, checking accounts at Citibank, even tax returns at Ernst & Young, is now shipped out of the United States. The privacy of millions of Americans now partly in the hands of foreign workers and foreign governments.
JAMIE COURT, PRIVACY EXPERT: The personal privacy issue is significant because, when you go in for a doctor's appointment, you don't expect that what you're telling your doctor or what your doctor IS finding out when doing an exploratory surgery is going to wind up in someone's earphone in India or it's being transcribed and possibly That information may get out in the open.
VILES: Businesses say they can be trusted to build privacy fire walls and to search out trustworthy international partners. Mass General, for example, says the work it has done in India is done through a secure connection inside the hospital's fire wall.
There's no backlash yet, but the do-not-call list could be the beginnings of a privacy movement.
RICHARD HUNTER, GARTNER GROUP: Historically, Americans have thought of privacy in terms of secrecy. That is private which is not known to others. What's happening now is that Americans are beginning to think of privacy as the right to specify how other parties will use their personal information.
VILES: The experience of American businesses in China should be a cautionary tale for consumers right now. From Wrigley's chewing gum to Cisco Systems, American companies say they have had their product secrets stolen, copied and resold to the tune of $20 billion a year right now in China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Back quickly to that do-not-call issue for a moment. If that list survives court challenges, it does not apply to foreign companies, which means portions of the telemarket industry could simply move overseas and keep on bugging you.
DOBBS: And given the propensities of late, we shouldn't be surprised if exactly that happens. Pete, thanks -- Peter Viles.
Tonight, some good news to report on employment. The economy created jobs last month for the first time since the beginning of the year. And the unemployment rate remained at 6.1 percent. But, unfortunately, millions of Americans are still looking for work and many others have simply given up.
Jan Hopkins is here tonight with the story -- Jan.
JAN HOPKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it definitely is a good sign that jobs are being created, but there are some troubling signs within the labor market.
For example, there's a 12 percent increase last month in the number of people who had to work part-time, because full-time work was not available. There was also an increase in the number of people who were unemployed for a long period of time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS (voice-over): David Beckman used to write technical manuals for Microsoft in Seattle. Now he's at home with plenty of time to make coffee. Beckman started looking for work on September 10, 2001. At first, there were lots of interviews, but no offers. He hasn't had an interview in a year.
DAVID BECKMAN, FORMER I.T. WORKER: The bank account became exhausted. The unemployment benefits ended. I sold practically everything I had, my house included, its contents. And I was eventually forced to take a job in a deli.
HOPKINS: Beckman couldn't figure out how to live on the $8 an hour he made at the deli. Now he's trying to make a living as a freelance technical writer.
Beckman is discouraged about finding a full-time job in his old field, information technology. He's one of the 388,000 officially discouraged workers who aren't looking for work because they don't think any exists. This number has held steady for the last year. What hasn't held steady is the number of jobs in information technology.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: We all talk about manufacturing employment as the real hemorrhaging story in this labor market. That's down 14 percent since the recession began. I.T. employment is right behind it, down 12 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Though there was an overall increase in jobs last month, the number of jobs in information technology and manufacturing continues to drop, as companies cut back at home and export jobs overseas; 23 percent of those out of work have been without a job for at least six months -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jan, thank you -- Jan Hopkins.
Coming up next: "News makers," the news media part of the story in several major stories this week. I'll be talking with the editors of "Forbes," "Fortune," and "BusinessWeek" right after this.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It's been a remarkable week, from the extraordinary developments in the California recall circus to the investigation of leaks at the White House.
And today, a solid rally on Wall Street, following a surprisingly strong employment report. The Dow gained 84 1/2 points, the Nasdaq up 44, the S&P 500 up nearly 10.
Joining me now, the heads of the three leading business magazines in the country, Steve Forbes, editor in chief of "Forbes," Rik Kirkland, managing editor of "Fortune," Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek."
Gentlemen, good to have you here.
(CROSSTALK) DOBBS: Let's start with this market, an impressive rally today, just after a lot of trepidation a week ago. What does it all mean?
STEVE FORBES, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "FORBES": It means the economy really is back on track. And by early next year, I think the Democrats are going to recognize their issue is disappearing on them.
DOBBS: By Democrats, you mean all 10 of the presidential candidates for the nomination.
FORBES: Last count at 10.
DOBBS: Rik?
RIK KIRKLAND, MANAGING EDITOR, "FORTUNE": It is a further sign that the economy is strong. And we're going to continue to debate valuations through the fall. But I think that the market is fighting its way up to slightly higher levels.
MARK MORRISON, MANAGING EDITOR, "BUSINESSWEEK": We're going to have very good earnings reports coming out over the next two, three weeks. The markets is anticipating that. And the good news about jobs, finally having a little upturn, is all the market needed to resume its rally.
DOBBS: And we have to point out, it was 59,000 nonfarm payroll jobs. It's hardly the stuff to put up standards for. But you would think that there had been a hallelujah chorus as a result.
MORRISON: Well, I think there were some better signs hidden in the numbers there. And technology is an area where, as Jan was saying earlier, there's still some weakness. But if you go down and really drill through the numbers, we found some good signs of encouragement in that area, which might even be good news for California.
KIRKLAND: I really think it's going to be a long slog, though, on this jobs front. It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.
And if you look at the last three recoveries, job recovery in the '80s was remarkably strong, much weaker in the early '90s. And this one has been basically flat. And so it's really a different economy.
DOBBS: A different economy, a quickly changing political landscape, a White House, an administration now under investigation for the leak of the identity of a CIA officer's name. What in the world is that about, Steve?
FORBES: I think it's just the Democrats trying to find an issue. The thing was revealed in July. It was well-known in Washington that she was working for the CIA.
DOBBS: Now, you're sure of that? Because we have heard precisely -- well, we have had conflicting stories on this.
FORBES: Well, the original column came out in July. And a lot of people in Washington knew about it.
DOBBS: Well, after that, they knew about it, yes. But I'm talking about leading up to it.
FORBES: No, but even before, it was no secret.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Did you have any indication that Valerie Plame was well- known?
KIRKLAND: Not personally, no.
But I mean, I -- the thing that I think the politics is over is over the special prosecutor call. This is the same Democrats who complained about Ken Starr are now calling for one. But the truth is, it's a very serious charge. And I think it's damaging the president. And I think that it's very possible that someone close to him is going to be gone at some point.
MORRISON: Yes. I think -- well, that's the best-case scenario for the administration, is that they get to the bottom of it pretty quickly, because, if this drags on, then it does become an important political issue. If it starts to look like a cover-up, if they don't solve it, it allows more focus on this.
DOBBS: Mark, if no one has learned anything in the past 29 years, it should be that you deal with a problem like this immediately, forthrightly and get it out of there. Awaiting a Justice Department Investigation, could there a case be made this administration should vigorously be doing its own thing to get those person out of there?
STEVE FORBES, "FORBES" MAGAZINE: Theoretically the Justice Department is part of the administration. The attorney general just...
DOBBS: The Democrats think it's more than theoretical.
FORBES: Well, if Ashcroft, the attorney general, recused himself formally, which he's not doing the investigation anyway, I think it would give a better odor to the thing. But at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, what is the scandal really about? I think next year, when this thing is long forgotten the key thing will be the economy and that's going to work in their favor.
MORRISON: The question still, whether Karl Rove's fingerprints might be on this somewhere. If that were to be the case, that does have a big political the consequence for next year.
FORBES: That's what they are trying to get Rove more and more than they are finding out who knew anything about the CIA. And the real scandal at the CIA is the inside debate over those wrong pre- September 11 about the scope of the terror threat.
DOBBS: It seems to me there is plenty of scandal here, if I may say. The idea that anyone from this administration would reveal the identity of a CIA officer is inexcusable and that's scandalous and should be rooted out.
Secondly, another scandal, and this is what in the world is going on when a CIA officer is recommending her husband for a mission in behalf of the White House? This is a bizarre circumstance.
FORBES: The CIA did not take seriously the idea that yellow cake went through that country, that's why they appointed this guy on record as being against the administration, to be in charge of it. That is part of the real scandal. The CIA didn't take this thing seriously.
DOBBS: Well, let's turn to what you gentlemen took seriously. In one of the articles if I may, "Businessweek," suggests that outsourcing of jobs, that China isn't a major problem, which is...
MORRISON: I don't think we said quite that, Lou, because we realize it's a major problem.
DOBBS: It's not a problem for journalists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet. Yet.
MORRISON: Our story was trying to point out is that there's a lot of positives coming out of the relationships with China. There's -- we're doing a lot more exporting to China, as well as importing. And China, along with the United States, is the principal -- the principal growth engines in the global economy right now. You don't want to mess those up too much with a bunch of currency tampering and so forth.
DOBBS; You're talking about unhooking the -- I mean, that's one of the issues. But I don't want to mess up this economy any further, personally. And I think this outsourcing -- we had senator Joe Lieberman on last night who I agree with, who the idea of calling for a special counsel is an absurdity. We have had enough pain in that case. But he's also calling for the reinstatement of special counsel, special prosecutor. But he's also saying that this is the No. 1 issue, the No. 1 crisis in our economy.
RIK KIRKLAND, "FORTUNE": It's a real problem and it's not going to go away. What's not clear, what do you do about it? If the U.S. decided to put limits on it or ban it, you're competing in a global economy against -- I was speaking to a head of a major German insurance company, one of the biggest in the world, they're outsourcing jobs to -- in fact they're setting up Universities in India so they can teach them German so they can make sure they can use the same thing back in their own economy.
This is go on everywhere. It's one thing to identify it as a problem. It's another thing to come up with a solution that involves somehow limiting a company's ability to compete.
DOBBS: That's why we're in this broadcast we're engaged in a significant effort in that dialogue to reach those answers, because the frightening thing is we don't have the information. Our Commerce Department, our State Department, our Labor Department, these numbers are not available. They're not focusing on how many jobs are lost by industry and how many are being outsourced, it's not even covered. It's extraordinary.
I love this quote James McNerney (ph) the chairman that you quoted in "Businessweek," Mark. "We don't do it just to eviscerate U.S. jobs. We do it to be competitive." I think that's a lousy trade-off don't you?
MORRISON: Not totally. You know...
DOBBS: I knew you'd be tough on this.
MORRISON: The U.S. companies, the most important thing, is that they stay financially healthy, they'll be, if they're able that way, they will create U.S. jobs as well.
DOBBS: I want to ask you quickly, on the California recall, day five, charges of, and an admission and apology, for absolutely horrible behavior toward women, part of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Then day four, reports of partial, at least admiration, for Adolf Hitler. Is this a smear campaign in California?
FORBES: I think the timing is not coincidental. And I think at the end of the day it's not go to work. People sort of half expect this to happen.
KIRKLAND: It's politics and Arnold stepped up and apologized. It's terrible behavior and he'll probably ride it out.
MORRISON: And he'll win and then what? He has California to try to turn around. That's the real question. What in the world could you do with it?
DOBBS: I'm still not convinced that the recall goes through. But we'll see. I know that I'm in the minority on that view. That's not the first time that's happened either. Gentlemen, thanks a lot.
FORBES: Thank you.
DOBBS: Have a great weekend.
A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Who do you think should be the next governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Gray Davis, other, or we did provide, don't care? Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll bring you results a little later in the show.
When we continue, 310 wins, more than 4,000 strikeouts. The eldest pitcher to ever play in an all-star game. Just a few of the numbers on future hall of famer, Yankee Roger Clemens, "the Rocket," fielding a few of my questions next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: When the New York Yankees take on the Minnesota Twins tomorrow, six-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens will be on the mound. I sat down with Roger Clemens at Yankee Stadium and I asked him how after 20 years in the major leagues he still prepares to play a young man's game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROGER CLEMENS, NEW YORK YANKEE PITCHER: I think it started with all the way back when I was young, when I was a young adult watching my mother. My father passed away when I was young and my mother raised six of us. So I got my will and determination from her and my strong will from her and my grandmother, I guess, because I watched how hard they worked. She worked three jobs to make sure I had the best equipment, the best the next kid had, the rich kid down at the end of block had.
And you know, my workouts are well-documented, they're talked about a lot. We have a lot of guys that work extremely hard. I think that the reason why I have to go a little harder is for the fact I'm a power pitcher. If I was more of a control, finesse guy, I probably wouldn't have to put the time in that I do to be a power pitcher, to throw the ball 95, 97 miles an hour.
DOBBS: You had a scare early in your career, everyone focuses on the story, the career of Roger Clemens. You had to have arm surgery, your second year.
CLEMENS: I sure did. You know, it was devastating to me. Really played heavy on my heart and my mind. Good, close friend of mine Al Neper (ph), a teammate of mine, we sat out in the tunnel, it was in Anaheim, California, and everything flashes in front of you. Now knowing more about my should and having to learn about it, you know, that injury forced me to learn more about my body more in detail.
You know, I think -- I kid about it now, it seems like every pitcher has to have an injury. It's like an initiation fee to get to the big leagues. And thank goodness, mine wasn't that serious.
DOBBS: You talk growing up poor, the hard work that your mother had to -- had to do to bring you up and your five siblings. Your four children, your four boys live in a quite different world. What do you think about that? Do you think about that?
CLEMENS: Well, they have a better life and, you know, I hope that's the case of you know as each generation goes along. You know, I still teach the things that I was taught. I taught how to respect people, but stand up for what you believe in. And if somebody is, you know, not nice to you or they -- because you're in the public eye, to stand up for what you believe in. I've had to do that in many situations where I heard people talking about maybe a close friend that didn't sign an autograph and, you know, some guys have bad days some days. Some days they don't want to deal with the public and that's part of it.
But my boys would -- you know, I think the neatest thing about my boys, Lou, is that I'm just their dad. When I bring them to the stadium here and they see Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Posada, they really enjoy looking up to them and watch them. I'm just dad. And, you know, I like keeping our relationship that way.
DOBBS: That's great.
What is baseball in your mind? And I'm not talking about now as one of the superstars of our era, if not all time, not as the professional you are, but reaching back to when you were a kid, to where you are now, as you see baseball through the eyes of your sons, what does baseball mean?
CLEMENS: Well, for me, it's a -- it's still a game. It's something that I can -- again, I can -- when I sit here, as we do our interview, I can hear the crowd cheering when I get two strikes on batters. It's very loud. That's something I'll take with me forever. When I have the opportunity to dwell on my career and look back at passing a guy like Walter Johnson for strikeouts and being compared and having my name alongside with Cy Young and the guys that -- when I see the old clips, this is the field they ran around on. I played in some really, really historic ballparks in my career. And those are my memories I'll take.
DOBBS: Six times you've won the Cy Young Award. Your winning percentage amongst 300 game winners far better than Cy Young's. Only Christie Mathewson and Lefty Grove will -- is it -- as your career wraps up, you have higher percentages. What does that mean to you?
CLEMENS: It's -- it's -- you know, just again, when you mentioned it, it's unbelievable because 20 years ago I never expected that. You know, when I won my first Cy Young, I thought, Oh my gosh, you know? Let alone to have six. And with all of the great pitchers that pitched with me and against me over these 20 years, and then when you start mentioning these guys' names and our public relations department put these guy's pictures in my locker when I'm getting ready to chase them down and I think sharing it with my teammates, to know when I was chasing down 300, to hear the stories, after I was able to get to the 300 mark, to hear the stories from Derek Jeter and some of the other guys behind me, that they were nervous during these games -- and we've played in some big games in this stadium and over the last five or six so years. And that just tells me that they wanted this for me just as bad. And you know, that makes me feel really good.
DOBBS: What do you think of Joe Torre, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and Stoudamire. Because they strike me as remarkable in the game to be associated together at one time?
CLEMENS: Our manager, Joe Torre, I played -- I've never played for a better man. This guy knows the right thing to say even to someone like myself with the credentials that I bring to this field.
You know, I remember our back was against the wall in the 2001 series. You came here against Arizona, down 2-love, and the president's in the building and just a big, emotional night from the September 11 mishap and all of those tragedies, and Joe -- I was tying my shoes. It was 10 minutes before I was headed to the bullpen and Joe says, I need you in a big way tonight, and just kind of whispered in my ear and I told him, I know that.
And Mel Stoudamire, my pitching coach -- Mel, you know, what he's battled through with all of his health problems. You know, I thought he was going to retire. He put all kinds of pressure on me last year to try and win 20, to get to 300. And thank goodness he came back, because I really wanted him to watch me win 300. He's help me so much. You know, here's a man that went through all of this hardship with his health, and yet he's calling us on the phone and doing things like that.
And Zem and I have been buddies forever. And he -- he just -- Zem has a way of keeping you loose and saying the right things at the right time too. So it's a good combination.
And our goals are so lofty. We're supposed to get to the World Series and win our last game. Anything short of that is a failure. And guys like that pressure.
DOBBS: Some of that pressure comes from a fellow by the name of Steinbrenner. Do you have a nickname for -- do you have a nickname...
CLEMENS: Well, the boss. There's no better name than the boss. He's the boss and -- and -- you know, I can't fault a man that wants to win as badly as you do as a player. That's -- that's a dream for a player. And you know, I told him, as far as -- how bad I wanted to win a championship, I met my match. My mother said that to me, is that you met your match with this guy.
And Mr. Steinbrenner has been just that. He gives us and affords us every opportunity to try and win, puts a great product on the field and that's why you see 50,000 most every night here at this stadium.
DOBBS: Let's talk about Roger Clemens, the retiring baseball legend at the age of 41, which sounds old and, frankly, is old in baseball terms but remarkably young in terms of the rest of the world outside this stadium. What -- what does Roger Clemens do?
CLEMENS: Well, I have a foundation at home. I work with kids. My plate's going to be full. I mean, you think I'm going to slow down? I know I won't slow down. I'll try and relax. I think they said that all of the things that you do in retirement is -- works you over so bad that you got to come out of retirement, you know? To relax. So I think that'll be my schedule.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: A lot of managers.
CLEMENS: Yes. I think you just said it. I think once I leave here and I'm in my dress clothes and I'm not the rocket and I get to meet these people around the city, it's fun to hear their stories and what they think and which games they came to and you made it exciting for them. And I think just to, you know, keep it on a personal level, I'm pretty relaxed when I'm like this. I mean, you catch me on game day, I'm...
DOBBS: I've caught you on game day.
CLEMENS: It's a -- it's a little more serious. And -- but I just don't know yet. I mean, they've mentioned the Olympics. They've mentioned -- they're in Greece this coming year. They've mentioned coming back and maybe doing some TV, working with some of the younger kids in the minor leagues. All that's interesting to me because I really want to work. If I do it, I want do it with -- you know, jump in with both feet and do it right.
DOBBS: Well, I think I safely speak for a lot of folks, even after you retire, you'll always be the rocket and we all appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
CLEMENS: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Roger Clemens, without question, a winner and a class act. A lot of winners. But this one happens to also deserve to be a winner.
A thought about our national pastime tonight. We wanted to share with you. "Since baseball time is measured only in outs, all you have do is succeed utterly, keep hitting, keep the rally alive, and you have defeated time. You remain forever young." Writer Roger Angell.
Coming up next, our feature series, "Heroes" Tonight, an Army National Guard sergeant badly wounded doing whatever he can to get back to work. His remarkable story, his inspirational story, is next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS; Now the story of a national guardsman who was so badly wounded in combat that he is struggling daily to return to health. Sergeant Christopher Martin is struggling to recover from wounds, but also struggling to return to his work as a S.W.A.T. Team officer. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sergeant Chris Martin pushes through a 2 1/2 hour workout three times a week to rebuild his broken body.
SGT. CHRISTOPHER MARTIN, NATIONAL GUARD: I have a nerve damage in my left leg. I have maybe a thousand pieces of shrapnel from the tip of my toe all the way up into my face. I have limited range of motion with my feet. I'm trying to improve my gait so that I can walk without a limp, that's a struggle. But the most serious injury is to my left eye and that is, if you can imagine looking through Vaseline it's like that, everything's blurry. WIAN: He was deployed to help train the Afghan army in October of 2002. Two months later, while on a routine mission to pick up supplies....
MARTIN An al Qaeda operative threw an improvised explosive device in through the rear window of the vehicle that we were driving in. Home made hand grenade, 18 inches or so away from my left foot, that's when it exploded. Had it been a military style composition B hand grenade I wouldn't be here now. I would have been all over. And don't think that doesn't wake me up at night.
WIAN: Martin served with special forces in Lebanon in 1983 and is a member of the Long Beach Police Department's S.W.A.T. Team, but nothing like being in Afghanistan.
MARTIN: Being in S.W.A.T., I was used to what we call flash bang grenades, or diversionary devices. And this is kind of what that reminded me of except it was a flash bang grenade on steroids really.
I didn't feel the pain initially. What I did feel was the burn.
WIAN: Martin compares the aftermath to movie "Blackhawk Down." A hostile crowd gathered. He and his badly injured partner barely escaped. First by commandeering an Afghan taxi. Then, with the aid of local police.
He's been through a half dozen surgeries. Fiancee Deanna Jenkins visited Martin four times while he was recovering at Walter Reed Hospital in Washington, D.C. The Long Beach Police Officers Association paid her way, because the military won't pay for fiancee travel.
DEANNA JENKINS, MARTIN'S FIANCEE: We're planning to get married in April and we're going to -- started out to be a small wedding but after everything he's been through and the support of the police department the wedding has grown.
WIAN: There's also been support from his commander in chief.
MARTIN: When you are sitting in a hospital room and you turn around and the President of the United States is standing in your doorway, it's an honor. You just feel the presence there.
WIAN: Now Sergeant Martin hopes to continue his police career and wants to help fellow veterans.
MARTIN: Naturally all of us wanted to kill bin laden. But that wasn't the way it worked out. But I hope that this country and I hope that we can continue to do the kind of services that we're doing and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of being a part of it.
WIAN: Casey Wian, CNN, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: When we continue, we'll take a look at your thoughts on our series of special reports, "the Great American Giveaway" and "Exporting American Jobs," stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of tonight's poll. The question, "who do you think should be the next governor of California." 29 percent of you say Arnold Schwarzenegger, 58 percent say Gray Davis, 7 percent said other, 6 percent said they don't care.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
From Art, Hereford, Arizona. "You candid and right on comments related to corporate greed and the loss of jobs due to overseas migration have made me an avid viewer. In my humble opinion, congress should devote as much energy to keeping and promoting jobs in this country as they did in reacting to the do-not-call list." Art, we obviously agree with you.
From Kingspark, New York, on exporting America, "Lou, thank you for speaking your mind and your heart on this subject. The government really has to wake up and realize that too many Americans are out of work and there is no magic want giving them back their jobs. Tighten our borders and start worrying about our people in the good 'ol U.S.A." Joe Sticco.
And from Paducah, Kentucky, "To be honest with you, I was channel surfing one night and ran across your program. Now I can't stop watching. I feel the same way you do about the export of American jobs." That from Ray Jones.
From Waco, Texas, "Everyone's asking where are the weapons of mass destruction. It's time to ask, where are the jobs?" N. Barrett.
From Princeton, Texas on Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Does Arnold have a good enough memory to be running a government? It seems as though he may have developed selective amnesia." Larry Parker.
We love hearing from you. Email us at loudobbs@cnn.com.
That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Next week on our special reports the "Great American Giveaway," financing the world. We take a look at what the United States contributes to the United Nations, the World Trade Organization, countries all around the world and, of course, what we receive in return.
Have a very pleasant weekend. From all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER, 360" is next.
END
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Interview With Yankee's Pitcher Roger Clemens>
Aired October 3, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, October 3. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
The California recall election is setting a new standard in trash politics. One day after Arnold Schwarzenegger apologized for bad behavior toward women, following an article in "The "Los Angeles Times" come new allegations. Now, with only four days remaining before the election, ABC News and "The New York Times" report that Schwarzenegger expressed at least partial admiration for Adolf Hitler.
Bob Franken reports from Los Angeles -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To put this in perspective, this is the producer of the movie "Pumping Iron" reflecting on quotes that he recollects from Arnold Schwarzenegger back in 1977, quotes that were put into a book.
These are the quotes, according to producer George Butler, in which it sounds like Schwarzenegger is expressing some admiration for Adolf Hitler. Here's what he said: "I admired Hitler" -- according to Butler, he said: "I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."
Well, it was enough to make Arnold Schwarzenegger depart from his message and respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I cannot imagine, because, from the time I was a kid on, I always disliked everything that this regime stood for. And when I came to America, it was the same thing. I think that Hitler was a disgusting villain, dictator, and he has caused so much harm in the world. And we have to make sure that it never happens again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Butler went on to say in "The New York Times" article that he believed that Schwarzenegger was just really uttering the rantings of somebody who was extremely immature and that he quickly grew up. Peter Davis, who was an associate of theirs, said that Schwarzenegger quickly switched to make John F. Kennedy his hero. Of course, he's now married to somebody from the Kennedy family.
Now, Schwarzenegger is out campaigning today with Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York. And that raises a couple of interesting questions. In an interview that Giuliani did with WCBS-TV in New York on August 8, he expressed some real apprehension about recalls. He said: "It doesn't seem like it's good for government. No, I think the provision is a provision that probably nobody ever thought would be used this way. It shouldn't be there. The idea of a very, very small number of people being able to recall a governor is a very big mistake."
Giuliani's people now say that he was only speaking conceptually, Lou, that the recall is a reality moving forward and he's a big admirer of Arnold Schwarzenegger's -- Lou.
DOBBS: As they say, it is, after all, politics.
Bob, one would have to say that they lived in lala land not to be skeptical about the timing of all of these negative reports in California.
FRANKEN: Well, of course, a lot of people say that's where we are, No. 1.
No. 2, these kinds of things just have a way of developing, say those who are arguing that this is not some plot to get Arnold Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger has suggested that this is just too much coincidence. But there is another side to this. "The Washington Post," in 1992, waited until three weeks after an election to report on sexual harassment charges against Senator Bob Packwood, which were later the charges that resulted in his being -- his leaving the Senate.
So there is always that dilemma, say the news organizations. But, on the other side, there are those who will say, isn't it convenient that this is such a coincidence that it happens right up next to the election?
DOBBS: Bob Franken, thank you very much, reporting from Los Angeles.
Arnold Schwarzenegger has now apologized for his history of offensive conduct toward women. And his wife, Maria Shriver, has supported him throughout. Today, she called upon voters to follow her example, support her husband.
Frank Buckley reports from Newport Beach, California -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Maria Shriver very passionate in her support for Arnold Schwarzenegger, her husband, here in a -- before a group of about 200 largely Republican women.
But her only reference to the allegations of mistreatment of women when she told the group that: You can either listen to people who knew my husband for five seconds 30 years ago or you can listen to me.
Meanwhile, one of the women who, of the six in "The "Los Angeles Times" article who alleged that they were either mistreated sexually or there was some sort of inappropriate sexual contact, appeared at a news conference put on by a group opposing Arnold Schwarzenegger's candidacy. Elaine Stockton says she was touched by Schwarzenegger in 1975 at a bodybuilding gym in Venice, while her husband worked out at that gym.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELAINE STOCKTON, SCHWARZENEGGER ACCUSER: I was just there watching him work out. The gym was rather full. And Arnold passed me by and he groped my breast. It completely caught me off guard. I was just shocked. And it took me a while to come to my senses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: Here in Orange County, meanwhile, Maria Shriver enjoyed a very warm welcome from this group of women, receiving a standing ovation, both at the beginning and at the end of her presentation.
She did not talk about "The L.A. Times" articles or about the women who said they had been touched or humiliated by Schwarzenegger. And in a brief news conference with reporters after her presentation, she disputed that characterization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA SHRIVER, WIFE OF ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER: I have met thousands and thousands of women who have come up to me and said they have worked with him, they have worked for him, alongside, and he has been an extraordinary gentleman.
This is -- he's been here for 35 years, and I would really dispute that. And I think his statement speaks for itself. And the longer -- I'm not going to go down this road, because I don't believe in gutter politics and I don't believe in gutter journalism. So I think you can keep asking me that question, but you're not going to get a response from me, because I believe in taking the high road. And I believe he's handled himself in this situation in the best possible manner.
He apologized. And that's courageous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: A number of women's groups here in California disagree. In fact, they are planning a protest to get under way this evening in 10 cities across California, urging Arnold Schwarzenegger to get out of the race, also urging Californians to vote against the recall, in effect voting against Arnold Schwarzenegger -- Lou.
DOBBS: Frank, I'll ask you the same question I asked of Bob Franken. This is taking on certainly the appearances, one has to believe absolutely not in coincidences to think otherwise, a smear campaign in the final days of this campaign. What is the reaction there?
BUCKLEY: Well, I talked to a Republican political consultant about this just after "The Times" article appeared yesterday.
And his view of it was, this is a classic hit piece, is what he said to me, in the sense that it goes after a person's character, it comes in the final days of the campaign. It's very difficult for a campaign or a candidate to overcome those sorts of personal attacks in the last few moments.
Now, having said that, we should say that we talked to Gray Davis. We talked to his aides yesterday. They all very strongly denied being the source of this. And "The "Los Angeles Times" itself, the newspaper that broke this story, said very clearly in its article yesterday and also today that none of the rival candidates came to the newspaper with this information. This was information that the paper developed on its own. So that's the newspaper's characterization of how this article came out -- Lou.
DOBBS: Frank Buckley, thank you very much.
Well, no one is following this recall election more closely than CNN political analyst and "Los Angeles Times" columnist Ron Brownstein, who joins me now.
Ron, this is taking on very ugly tones here in the final days. What's your reaction?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is.
It is a very personal finish. I think "The L.A. Times" story, although, is a very strong piece of journalism, you know? The accounts in it are very detailed, very specific, covering a number of years. And what we've learned over, I think, the last two decades is that this sort of information about politicians, especially as they move higher on the ladder, is going to come out. And it really is the role of the public to decide what it means to them.
Whether it's going to matter to a large number of voters or not, I can't tell you. But I do think it's the responsibility of the press in a pattern of behavior like this to report on it.
DOBBS: Yes, a pattern that's been documented in "Oui" magazine, "Premiere" magazine, was brought up before.
And, Ron, I want to mention, as we're talking, we're looking at Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is in Bakersfield at a campaign rally. We may go back to him in a moment. Let's go to the journalism issue here, Ron, just for a second, since you raised it.
BROWNSTEIN: Sure.
DOBBS: You and I both know that the editors had to really agonize over this story, coming, as it did, five days before the election, don't you think?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
Well, look, I don't really have any particular inside information on the process, because they do keep it pretty compartmentalized.
DOBBS: Sure.
BROWNSTEIN: As at most major papers or at CNN from the investigation unit from the rest of the paper.
But I'm sure they did. And they went through a lot of doting I's and crossing T's to feel that they had the story. And they put it out when they felt they had it. And, as Frank Buckley mentioned, I think the most important fact in terms of the election here is the explicit point in the story that neither any campaign, no campaign came to them with this information, nor did any of the women come to them. They found it through shoe leather and reporting.
And, as you mentioned, through something like the "Premiere" story that came out a couple years ago, allegations have been out there. And, indeed, more surfaced today.
DOBBS: Ron, if you don't mind staying by there, if I may ask you to do so, we're going to Arnold Schwarzenegger. He's talking right now.
Let's just see quickly if he is responding.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SCHWARZENEGGER: The crowds have been building. We started out with 2,000, then 3,000. Then, they went to 4,000, then to 5,000. And today, we have 7,500 people here. Thank you.
DOBBS: You see to the left of Arnold Schwarzenegger, there at the podium, that is former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, there to support Schwarzenegger's candidacy.
SCHWARZENEGGER: You have this wonderful life. You have show business ahead of you, movie contracts. You have everything. Why would you get into politics? You know they'll try to tear you down, try to tear down your character.
You know what I say to them? And I say this to you. Everything that I have is because of California. California is the place of opportunities. It's the Golden State.
DOBBS: That's a pretty good exit line to depart our coverage from Arnold Schwarzenegger there in California.
Ron Brownstein, we're back. And I would like to ask you, he raised a question here. He is really in the middle of a fight here. You suppose he does have any second thoughts at all?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think the main thing that we can conclude from this last week is that an event like this is probably not going to end October 7. The fight will continue.
You have Democrats here, serious Democrats, talking about a re- recall effort, in light of these allegations. It wouldn't be inconceivable to see more of these sorts of things surface after an election. We're in a very bitter era, as you know, Lou, in American politics. We're seeing both sides using any weapon that is available. The recall itself was an extraordinary event. There had been nothing like it in this country for over 80 years. And I think it would be naive to assume it will end now.
DOBBS: Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that very quickly.
In the latest Field poll, 56 percent favor the recall. Now, with a reasonable margin of error, that doesn't suggest to me that this is a done deal that Gray Davis will be recalled. What's your take?
BROWNSTEIN: I think it's going to be hard for him to survive.
The amount of coverage these allegations are getting out here have got to take some effect on Schwarzenegger. But he has a significant cushion, both on the ballot and the recall. The bottom line, Lou, is that two-thirds of the voters consistently have said all year they don't like the job Gray Davis is doing as governor. That makes it very hard for him to survive, not impossible, I suppose, but extremely difficult. We'll have to see almost a complete meltdown over the last weekend.
DOBBS: Amongst the candidates, Senator Tom McClintock, Ron, he seems to have managed to stay above the fray. What's your opinion?
BROWNSTEIN: I saw, though, he was quoted somewhere as saying that, if the allegations were true, perhaps Schwarzenegger should consider stepping aside.
McClintock has done himself good as a future leader of the Republican in the state, of the conservative wing of the party. He performed very credibly in every debate. As you say, he kept to the high road. And he's someone who is going to be a force in Republican politics in the future. If Schwarzenegger is the governor, you do have the potential for a moderate-conservative tension.
And how McClintock handles that, whether he becomes an ally of Schwarzenegger or perhaps a leader of opposition if Arnold Schwarzenegger tries to cooperate too much with Democratic majorities in the legislature if he is elected, that would be a very interesting play to see how that plays out.
DOBBS: Ron, thank you very much -- Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst, "Los Angeles Times" columnist. And Ron will be good enough to be back with us next Monday and Tuesday, of course, Election Day.
That brings us to our poll. The question: Who do you think should be the next governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Gray Davis, other, or simply don't care? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have results coming up. Still ahead here: a new deadline tonight in the hunt for the official who leaked the name of a CIA officer. Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House.
And our continuing special report on "The Great American Giveaway." Tonight: how your personal financial, your medical information and other personal information may now be in the hands of foreign companies and foreign governments.
And baseball legend Roger Clemens tonight. I'll have an exclusive interview with the Rocket on the eve of a critical pitching performance for him and the New York Yankees.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today defended again his decision to go to war against Saddam Hussein. The White House is also under pressure over the leak of a CIA officer's identity to a syndicated newspaper columnist, Robert Novak.
Today, the administration told staff to hand over all documents relevant to the criminal investigation by Tuesday.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the report -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the White House and the president are really trying to get control of these stories, President Bush returning from his day trip to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He was talking about the economy, doing some fund-raising.
But before he even left the trip, he was really competing with the headlines in "The New York Times," "The Washington Post," all talking about chief weapons hunter David Kay's report, no smoking gun, no weapons of mass destruction found, but President Bush emphasizing today that it's an interim report. They expect more from six to nine months later, also saying that Kay's report did, however, prove that Saddam Hussein had a weapons program and that he had the intent to reconstitute that program, in defiance of the world community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He says that the WMD program involved thousands of people, billions of dollars and was elaborately shielded by security and deception operations that continued even beyond the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In other words, he's saying Saddam Hussein was a threat, a serious danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And, Lou, as you know, of course, the White House also under investigation as well for that leak.
Joe Wilson, former Ambassador Joe Wilson, who had critical of the president when it comes to weapons of mass destruction, the program as well as the war, his wife, a CIA agent who had been essentially outed in the media, the investigation to the White House, today, what happened was that they had two memos that were sent to all White House staffers by the White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, giving details about the documents that are going to be required to turn over.
It said that all documents that relate in any way to former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, his trip to Niger in February 2002, or his wife's purported relationship with the Central Intelligence Agency must be handed over, as well as all documents that relate to contact with the news media when it comes to all of that. We should also let you know, Lou, that there was a letter of certification for everybody to sign to make sure what they were saying was in fact accurate or face criminal penalties.
And also, we are told that the next phase of this investigation is going to be interviews with senior-level White House officials -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you very much -- Suzanne Malveaux reporting from the White House.
Turning now to our series of special reports, "The Great American Giveaway." Tonight, we look at the huge lapses in public policy that are giving away American prosperity, security, and perhaps our quality of life.
Tonight, we look at how the blind rush to ship American jobs around the world is threatening the business secrets of corporate America and the privacy of Americans.
Peter Viles has the story for us -- Peter.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, we have talked repeatedly on this show about how free trade really is not free.
There are numerous costs associated with it. And when the trade is in technology, one of those costs privacy, quite possibly your privacy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VILES (voice-over): If you have X-rays taken, you wouldn't want your co-workers to know the results. If you order new checks, you would just as soon nobody knows your account balance. Your tax returns, there's something you really want kept private.
But some work on X-rays at Massachusetts General Hospital, checking accounts at Citibank, even tax returns at Ernst & Young, is now shipped out of the United States. The privacy of millions of Americans now partly in the hands of foreign workers and foreign governments.
JAMIE COURT, PRIVACY EXPERT: The personal privacy issue is significant because, when you go in for a doctor's appointment, you don't expect that what you're telling your doctor or what your doctor IS finding out when doing an exploratory surgery is going to wind up in someone's earphone in India or it's being transcribed and possibly That information may get out in the open.
VILES: Businesses say they can be trusted to build privacy fire walls and to search out trustworthy international partners. Mass General, for example, says the work it has done in India is done through a secure connection inside the hospital's fire wall.
There's no backlash yet, but the do-not-call list could be the beginnings of a privacy movement.
RICHARD HUNTER, GARTNER GROUP: Historically, Americans have thought of privacy in terms of secrecy. That is private which is not known to others. What's happening now is that Americans are beginning to think of privacy as the right to specify how other parties will use their personal information.
VILES: The experience of American businesses in China should be a cautionary tale for consumers right now. From Wrigley's chewing gum to Cisco Systems, American companies say they have had their product secrets stolen, copied and resold to the tune of $20 billion a year right now in China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Back quickly to that do-not-call issue for a moment. If that list survives court challenges, it does not apply to foreign companies, which means portions of the telemarket industry could simply move overseas and keep on bugging you.
DOBBS: And given the propensities of late, we shouldn't be surprised if exactly that happens. Pete, thanks -- Peter Viles.
Tonight, some good news to report on employment. The economy created jobs last month for the first time since the beginning of the year. And the unemployment rate remained at 6.1 percent. But, unfortunately, millions of Americans are still looking for work and many others have simply given up.
Jan Hopkins is here tonight with the story -- Jan.
JAN HOPKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it definitely is a good sign that jobs are being created, but there are some troubling signs within the labor market.
For example, there's a 12 percent increase last month in the number of people who had to work part-time, because full-time work was not available. There was also an increase in the number of people who were unemployed for a long period of time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS (voice-over): David Beckman used to write technical manuals for Microsoft in Seattle. Now he's at home with plenty of time to make coffee. Beckman started looking for work on September 10, 2001. At first, there were lots of interviews, but no offers. He hasn't had an interview in a year.
DAVID BECKMAN, FORMER I.T. WORKER: The bank account became exhausted. The unemployment benefits ended. I sold practically everything I had, my house included, its contents. And I was eventually forced to take a job in a deli.
HOPKINS: Beckman couldn't figure out how to live on the $8 an hour he made at the deli. Now he's trying to make a living as a freelance technical writer.
Beckman is discouraged about finding a full-time job in his old field, information technology. He's one of the 388,000 officially discouraged workers who aren't looking for work because they don't think any exists. This number has held steady for the last year. What hasn't held steady is the number of jobs in information technology.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: We all talk about manufacturing employment as the real hemorrhaging story in this labor market. That's down 14 percent since the recession began. I.T. employment is right behind it, down 12 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Though there was an overall increase in jobs last month, the number of jobs in information technology and manufacturing continues to drop, as companies cut back at home and export jobs overseas; 23 percent of those out of work have been without a job for at least six months -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jan, thank you -- Jan Hopkins.
Coming up next: "News makers," the news media part of the story in several major stories this week. I'll be talking with the editors of "Forbes," "Fortune," and "BusinessWeek" right after this.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It's been a remarkable week, from the extraordinary developments in the California recall circus to the investigation of leaks at the White House.
And today, a solid rally on Wall Street, following a surprisingly strong employment report. The Dow gained 84 1/2 points, the Nasdaq up 44, the S&P 500 up nearly 10.
Joining me now, the heads of the three leading business magazines in the country, Steve Forbes, editor in chief of "Forbes," Rik Kirkland, managing editor of "Fortune," Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek."
Gentlemen, good to have you here.
(CROSSTALK) DOBBS: Let's start with this market, an impressive rally today, just after a lot of trepidation a week ago. What does it all mean?
STEVE FORBES, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "FORBES": It means the economy really is back on track. And by early next year, I think the Democrats are going to recognize their issue is disappearing on them.
DOBBS: By Democrats, you mean all 10 of the presidential candidates for the nomination.
FORBES: Last count at 10.
DOBBS: Rik?
RIK KIRKLAND, MANAGING EDITOR, "FORTUNE": It is a further sign that the economy is strong. And we're going to continue to debate valuations through the fall. But I think that the market is fighting its way up to slightly higher levels.
MARK MORRISON, MANAGING EDITOR, "BUSINESSWEEK": We're going to have very good earnings reports coming out over the next two, three weeks. The markets is anticipating that. And the good news about jobs, finally having a little upturn, is all the market needed to resume its rally.
DOBBS: And we have to point out, it was 59,000 nonfarm payroll jobs. It's hardly the stuff to put up standards for. But you would think that there had been a hallelujah chorus as a result.
MORRISON: Well, I think there were some better signs hidden in the numbers there. And technology is an area where, as Jan was saying earlier, there's still some weakness. But if you go down and really drill through the numbers, we found some good signs of encouragement in that area, which might even be good news for California.
KIRKLAND: I really think it's going to be a long slog, though, on this jobs front. It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.
And if you look at the last three recoveries, job recovery in the '80s was remarkably strong, much weaker in the early '90s. And this one has been basically flat. And so it's really a different economy.
DOBBS: A different economy, a quickly changing political landscape, a White House, an administration now under investigation for the leak of the identity of a CIA officer's name. What in the world is that about, Steve?
FORBES: I think it's just the Democrats trying to find an issue. The thing was revealed in July. It was well-known in Washington that she was working for the CIA.
DOBBS: Now, you're sure of that? Because we have heard precisely -- well, we have had conflicting stories on this.
FORBES: Well, the original column came out in July. And a lot of people in Washington knew about it.
DOBBS: Well, after that, they knew about it, yes. But I'm talking about leading up to it.
FORBES: No, but even before, it was no secret.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Did you have any indication that Valerie Plame was well- known?
KIRKLAND: Not personally, no.
But I mean, I -- the thing that I think the politics is over is over the special prosecutor call. This is the same Democrats who complained about Ken Starr are now calling for one. But the truth is, it's a very serious charge. And I think it's damaging the president. And I think that it's very possible that someone close to him is going to be gone at some point.
MORRISON: Yes. I think -- well, that's the best-case scenario for the administration, is that they get to the bottom of it pretty quickly, because, if this drags on, then it does become an important political issue. If it starts to look like a cover-up, if they don't solve it, it allows more focus on this.
DOBBS: Mark, if no one has learned anything in the past 29 years, it should be that you deal with a problem like this immediately, forthrightly and get it out of there. Awaiting a Justice Department Investigation, could there a case be made this administration should vigorously be doing its own thing to get those person out of there?
STEVE FORBES, "FORBES" MAGAZINE: Theoretically the Justice Department is part of the administration. The attorney general just...
DOBBS: The Democrats think it's more than theoretical.
FORBES: Well, if Ashcroft, the attorney general, recused himself formally, which he's not doing the investigation anyway, I think it would give a better odor to the thing. But at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, what is the scandal really about? I think next year, when this thing is long forgotten the key thing will be the economy and that's going to work in their favor.
MORRISON: The question still, whether Karl Rove's fingerprints might be on this somewhere. If that were to be the case, that does have a big political the consequence for next year.
FORBES: That's what they are trying to get Rove more and more than they are finding out who knew anything about the CIA. And the real scandal at the CIA is the inside debate over those wrong pre- September 11 about the scope of the terror threat.
DOBBS: It seems to me there is plenty of scandal here, if I may say. The idea that anyone from this administration would reveal the identity of a CIA officer is inexcusable and that's scandalous and should be rooted out.
Secondly, another scandal, and this is what in the world is going on when a CIA officer is recommending her husband for a mission in behalf of the White House? This is a bizarre circumstance.
FORBES: The CIA did not take seriously the idea that yellow cake went through that country, that's why they appointed this guy on record as being against the administration, to be in charge of it. That is part of the real scandal. The CIA didn't take this thing seriously.
DOBBS: Well, let's turn to what you gentlemen took seriously. In one of the articles if I may, "Businessweek," suggests that outsourcing of jobs, that China isn't a major problem, which is...
MORRISON: I don't think we said quite that, Lou, because we realize it's a major problem.
DOBBS: It's not a problem for journalists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet. Yet.
MORRISON: Our story was trying to point out is that there's a lot of positives coming out of the relationships with China. There's -- we're doing a lot more exporting to China, as well as importing. And China, along with the United States, is the principal -- the principal growth engines in the global economy right now. You don't want to mess those up too much with a bunch of currency tampering and so forth.
DOBBS; You're talking about unhooking the -- I mean, that's one of the issues. But I don't want to mess up this economy any further, personally. And I think this outsourcing -- we had senator Joe Lieberman on last night who I agree with, who the idea of calling for a special counsel is an absurdity. We have had enough pain in that case. But he's also calling for the reinstatement of special counsel, special prosecutor. But he's also saying that this is the No. 1 issue, the No. 1 crisis in our economy.
RIK KIRKLAND, "FORTUNE": It's a real problem and it's not going to go away. What's not clear, what do you do about it? If the U.S. decided to put limits on it or ban it, you're competing in a global economy against -- I was speaking to a head of a major German insurance company, one of the biggest in the world, they're outsourcing jobs to -- in fact they're setting up Universities in India so they can teach them German so they can make sure they can use the same thing back in their own economy.
This is go on everywhere. It's one thing to identify it as a problem. It's another thing to come up with a solution that involves somehow limiting a company's ability to compete.
DOBBS: That's why we're in this broadcast we're engaged in a significant effort in that dialogue to reach those answers, because the frightening thing is we don't have the information. Our Commerce Department, our State Department, our Labor Department, these numbers are not available. They're not focusing on how many jobs are lost by industry and how many are being outsourced, it's not even covered. It's extraordinary.
I love this quote James McNerney (ph) the chairman that you quoted in "Businessweek," Mark. "We don't do it just to eviscerate U.S. jobs. We do it to be competitive." I think that's a lousy trade-off don't you?
MORRISON: Not totally. You know...
DOBBS: I knew you'd be tough on this.
MORRISON: The U.S. companies, the most important thing, is that they stay financially healthy, they'll be, if they're able that way, they will create U.S. jobs as well.
DOBBS: I want to ask you quickly, on the California recall, day five, charges of, and an admission and apology, for absolutely horrible behavior toward women, part of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Then day four, reports of partial, at least admiration, for Adolf Hitler. Is this a smear campaign in California?
FORBES: I think the timing is not coincidental. And I think at the end of the day it's not go to work. People sort of half expect this to happen.
KIRKLAND: It's politics and Arnold stepped up and apologized. It's terrible behavior and he'll probably ride it out.
MORRISON: And he'll win and then what? He has California to try to turn around. That's the real question. What in the world could you do with it?
DOBBS: I'm still not convinced that the recall goes through. But we'll see. I know that I'm in the minority on that view. That's not the first time that's happened either. Gentlemen, thanks a lot.
FORBES: Thank you.
DOBBS: Have a great weekend.
A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Who do you think should be the next governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Gray Davis, other, or we did provide, don't care? Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll bring you results a little later in the show.
When we continue, 310 wins, more than 4,000 strikeouts. The eldest pitcher to ever play in an all-star game. Just a few of the numbers on future hall of famer, Yankee Roger Clemens, "the Rocket," fielding a few of my questions next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: When the New York Yankees take on the Minnesota Twins tomorrow, six-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens will be on the mound. I sat down with Roger Clemens at Yankee Stadium and I asked him how after 20 years in the major leagues he still prepares to play a young man's game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROGER CLEMENS, NEW YORK YANKEE PITCHER: I think it started with all the way back when I was young, when I was a young adult watching my mother. My father passed away when I was young and my mother raised six of us. So I got my will and determination from her and my strong will from her and my grandmother, I guess, because I watched how hard they worked. She worked three jobs to make sure I had the best equipment, the best the next kid had, the rich kid down at the end of block had.
And you know, my workouts are well-documented, they're talked about a lot. We have a lot of guys that work extremely hard. I think that the reason why I have to go a little harder is for the fact I'm a power pitcher. If I was more of a control, finesse guy, I probably wouldn't have to put the time in that I do to be a power pitcher, to throw the ball 95, 97 miles an hour.
DOBBS: You had a scare early in your career, everyone focuses on the story, the career of Roger Clemens. You had to have arm surgery, your second year.
CLEMENS: I sure did. You know, it was devastating to me. Really played heavy on my heart and my mind. Good, close friend of mine Al Neper (ph), a teammate of mine, we sat out in the tunnel, it was in Anaheim, California, and everything flashes in front of you. Now knowing more about my should and having to learn about it, you know, that injury forced me to learn more about my body more in detail.
You know, I think -- I kid about it now, it seems like every pitcher has to have an injury. It's like an initiation fee to get to the big leagues. And thank goodness, mine wasn't that serious.
DOBBS: You talk growing up poor, the hard work that your mother had to -- had to do to bring you up and your five siblings. Your four children, your four boys live in a quite different world. What do you think about that? Do you think about that?
CLEMENS: Well, they have a better life and, you know, I hope that's the case of you know as each generation goes along. You know, I still teach the things that I was taught. I taught how to respect people, but stand up for what you believe in. And if somebody is, you know, not nice to you or they -- because you're in the public eye, to stand up for what you believe in. I've had to do that in many situations where I heard people talking about maybe a close friend that didn't sign an autograph and, you know, some guys have bad days some days. Some days they don't want to deal with the public and that's part of it.
But my boys would -- you know, I think the neatest thing about my boys, Lou, is that I'm just their dad. When I bring them to the stadium here and they see Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Posada, they really enjoy looking up to them and watch them. I'm just dad. And, you know, I like keeping our relationship that way.
DOBBS: That's great.
What is baseball in your mind? And I'm not talking about now as one of the superstars of our era, if not all time, not as the professional you are, but reaching back to when you were a kid, to where you are now, as you see baseball through the eyes of your sons, what does baseball mean?
CLEMENS: Well, for me, it's a -- it's still a game. It's something that I can -- again, I can -- when I sit here, as we do our interview, I can hear the crowd cheering when I get two strikes on batters. It's very loud. That's something I'll take with me forever. When I have the opportunity to dwell on my career and look back at passing a guy like Walter Johnson for strikeouts and being compared and having my name alongside with Cy Young and the guys that -- when I see the old clips, this is the field they ran around on. I played in some really, really historic ballparks in my career. And those are my memories I'll take.
DOBBS: Six times you've won the Cy Young Award. Your winning percentage amongst 300 game winners far better than Cy Young's. Only Christie Mathewson and Lefty Grove will -- is it -- as your career wraps up, you have higher percentages. What does that mean to you?
CLEMENS: It's -- it's -- you know, just again, when you mentioned it, it's unbelievable because 20 years ago I never expected that. You know, when I won my first Cy Young, I thought, Oh my gosh, you know? Let alone to have six. And with all of the great pitchers that pitched with me and against me over these 20 years, and then when you start mentioning these guys' names and our public relations department put these guy's pictures in my locker when I'm getting ready to chase them down and I think sharing it with my teammates, to know when I was chasing down 300, to hear the stories, after I was able to get to the 300 mark, to hear the stories from Derek Jeter and some of the other guys behind me, that they were nervous during these games -- and we've played in some big games in this stadium and over the last five or six so years. And that just tells me that they wanted this for me just as bad. And you know, that makes me feel really good.
DOBBS: What do you think of Joe Torre, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and Stoudamire. Because they strike me as remarkable in the game to be associated together at one time?
CLEMENS: Our manager, Joe Torre, I played -- I've never played for a better man. This guy knows the right thing to say even to someone like myself with the credentials that I bring to this field.
You know, I remember our back was against the wall in the 2001 series. You came here against Arizona, down 2-love, and the president's in the building and just a big, emotional night from the September 11 mishap and all of those tragedies, and Joe -- I was tying my shoes. It was 10 minutes before I was headed to the bullpen and Joe says, I need you in a big way tonight, and just kind of whispered in my ear and I told him, I know that.
And Mel Stoudamire, my pitching coach -- Mel, you know, what he's battled through with all of his health problems. You know, I thought he was going to retire. He put all kinds of pressure on me last year to try and win 20, to get to 300. And thank goodness he came back, because I really wanted him to watch me win 300. He's help me so much. You know, here's a man that went through all of this hardship with his health, and yet he's calling us on the phone and doing things like that.
And Zem and I have been buddies forever. And he -- he just -- Zem has a way of keeping you loose and saying the right things at the right time too. So it's a good combination.
And our goals are so lofty. We're supposed to get to the World Series and win our last game. Anything short of that is a failure. And guys like that pressure.
DOBBS: Some of that pressure comes from a fellow by the name of Steinbrenner. Do you have a nickname for -- do you have a nickname...
CLEMENS: Well, the boss. There's no better name than the boss. He's the boss and -- and -- you know, I can't fault a man that wants to win as badly as you do as a player. That's -- that's a dream for a player. And you know, I told him, as far as -- how bad I wanted to win a championship, I met my match. My mother said that to me, is that you met your match with this guy.
And Mr. Steinbrenner has been just that. He gives us and affords us every opportunity to try and win, puts a great product on the field and that's why you see 50,000 most every night here at this stadium.
DOBBS: Let's talk about Roger Clemens, the retiring baseball legend at the age of 41, which sounds old and, frankly, is old in baseball terms but remarkably young in terms of the rest of the world outside this stadium. What -- what does Roger Clemens do?
CLEMENS: Well, I have a foundation at home. I work with kids. My plate's going to be full. I mean, you think I'm going to slow down? I know I won't slow down. I'll try and relax. I think they said that all of the things that you do in retirement is -- works you over so bad that you got to come out of retirement, you know? To relax. So I think that'll be my schedule.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: A lot of managers.
CLEMENS: Yes. I think you just said it. I think once I leave here and I'm in my dress clothes and I'm not the rocket and I get to meet these people around the city, it's fun to hear their stories and what they think and which games they came to and you made it exciting for them. And I think just to, you know, keep it on a personal level, I'm pretty relaxed when I'm like this. I mean, you catch me on game day, I'm...
DOBBS: I've caught you on game day.
CLEMENS: It's a -- it's a little more serious. And -- but I just don't know yet. I mean, they've mentioned the Olympics. They've mentioned -- they're in Greece this coming year. They've mentioned coming back and maybe doing some TV, working with some of the younger kids in the minor leagues. All that's interesting to me because I really want to work. If I do it, I want do it with -- you know, jump in with both feet and do it right.
DOBBS: Well, I think I safely speak for a lot of folks, even after you retire, you'll always be the rocket and we all appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
CLEMENS: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Roger Clemens, without question, a winner and a class act. A lot of winners. But this one happens to also deserve to be a winner.
A thought about our national pastime tonight. We wanted to share with you. "Since baseball time is measured only in outs, all you have do is succeed utterly, keep hitting, keep the rally alive, and you have defeated time. You remain forever young." Writer Roger Angell.
Coming up next, our feature series, "Heroes" Tonight, an Army National Guard sergeant badly wounded doing whatever he can to get back to work. His remarkable story, his inspirational story, is next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS; Now the story of a national guardsman who was so badly wounded in combat that he is struggling daily to return to health. Sergeant Christopher Martin is struggling to recover from wounds, but also struggling to return to his work as a S.W.A.T. Team officer. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sergeant Chris Martin pushes through a 2 1/2 hour workout three times a week to rebuild his broken body.
SGT. CHRISTOPHER MARTIN, NATIONAL GUARD: I have a nerve damage in my left leg. I have maybe a thousand pieces of shrapnel from the tip of my toe all the way up into my face. I have limited range of motion with my feet. I'm trying to improve my gait so that I can walk without a limp, that's a struggle. But the most serious injury is to my left eye and that is, if you can imagine looking through Vaseline it's like that, everything's blurry. WIAN: He was deployed to help train the Afghan army in October of 2002. Two months later, while on a routine mission to pick up supplies....
MARTIN An al Qaeda operative threw an improvised explosive device in through the rear window of the vehicle that we were driving in. Home made hand grenade, 18 inches or so away from my left foot, that's when it exploded. Had it been a military style composition B hand grenade I wouldn't be here now. I would have been all over. And don't think that doesn't wake me up at night.
WIAN: Martin served with special forces in Lebanon in 1983 and is a member of the Long Beach Police Department's S.W.A.T. Team, but nothing like being in Afghanistan.
MARTIN: Being in S.W.A.T., I was used to what we call flash bang grenades, or diversionary devices. And this is kind of what that reminded me of except it was a flash bang grenade on steroids really.
I didn't feel the pain initially. What I did feel was the burn.
WIAN: Martin compares the aftermath to movie "Blackhawk Down." A hostile crowd gathered. He and his badly injured partner barely escaped. First by commandeering an Afghan taxi. Then, with the aid of local police.
He's been through a half dozen surgeries. Fiancee Deanna Jenkins visited Martin four times while he was recovering at Walter Reed Hospital in Washington, D.C. The Long Beach Police Officers Association paid her way, because the military won't pay for fiancee travel.
DEANNA JENKINS, MARTIN'S FIANCEE: We're planning to get married in April and we're going to -- started out to be a small wedding but after everything he's been through and the support of the police department the wedding has grown.
WIAN: There's also been support from his commander in chief.
MARTIN: When you are sitting in a hospital room and you turn around and the President of the United States is standing in your doorway, it's an honor. You just feel the presence there.
WIAN: Now Sergeant Martin hopes to continue his police career and wants to help fellow veterans.
MARTIN: Naturally all of us wanted to kill bin laden. But that wasn't the way it worked out. But I hope that this country and I hope that we can continue to do the kind of services that we're doing and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of being a part of it.
WIAN: Casey Wian, CNN, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: When we continue, we'll take a look at your thoughts on our series of special reports, "the Great American Giveaway" and "Exporting American Jobs," stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of tonight's poll. The question, "who do you think should be the next governor of California." 29 percent of you say Arnold Schwarzenegger, 58 percent say Gray Davis, 7 percent said other, 6 percent said they don't care.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
From Art, Hereford, Arizona. "You candid and right on comments related to corporate greed and the loss of jobs due to overseas migration have made me an avid viewer. In my humble opinion, congress should devote as much energy to keeping and promoting jobs in this country as they did in reacting to the do-not-call list." Art, we obviously agree with you.
From Kingspark, New York, on exporting America, "Lou, thank you for speaking your mind and your heart on this subject. The government really has to wake up and realize that too many Americans are out of work and there is no magic want giving them back their jobs. Tighten our borders and start worrying about our people in the good 'ol U.S.A." Joe Sticco.
And from Paducah, Kentucky, "To be honest with you, I was channel surfing one night and ran across your program. Now I can't stop watching. I feel the same way you do about the export of American jobs." That from Ray Jones.
From Waco, Texas, "Everyone's asking where are the weapons of mass destruction. It's time to ask, where are the jobs?" N. Barrett.
From Princeton, Texas on Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Does Arnold have a good enough memory to be running a government? It seems as though he may have developed selective amnesia." Larry Parker.
We love hearing from you. Email us at loudobbs@cnn.com.
That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Next week on our special reports the "Great American Giveaway," financing the world. We take a look at what the United States contributes to the United Nations, the World Trade Organization, countries all around the world and, of course, what we receive in return.
Have a very pleasant weekend. From all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER, 360" is next.
END
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Interview With Yankee's Pitcher Roger Clemens>
