Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Meets With Mexican President; White House Vs. Former Treasury Secretary; Made in America?
Aired January 12, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox meet to talk about migration between their two countries. We'll have a live report from Monterey, Mexico. We'll be joined by New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, who says the president should do more for illegal aliens.
The president says his immigration proposal is designed to allow illegal aliens to remain in this country to do jobs that Americans don't want. Economists say those illegal aliens and high immigration levels depress working wages in the United States. Tonight, our series of special reports celebrating the men and women of this country who work in all sorts of jobs.
Tonight, a dramatic new development in the war of words between former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and the White House. The Treasury Department today called for an investigation into papers O'Neill took with him when he left office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Buy American and we won't have to throw in the towel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And this week, we begin our special reports, "Made in America." Do you remember when labels carried "Made in America" and that was a persuasive buying point in this country? Tonight, whatever happened to made in America?
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, January 12. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush is in Mexico tonight for the Summit of the Americas. Mr. Bush and Mexican president Vicente Fox held a joint news conference today in which both men embraced immigration reform.
White House correspondent Dana Bash reports from Monterey, Mexico -- Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, there are 34 leaders here at the Summit of Americas, but all eyes were on that first meeting between Presidents Bush and Fox.
And it was to see whether or not the immigration proposal that President Bush brought down here to Mexico that he unveiled just five days ago, whether that was enough to thaw relations between the two men, relations that have been quite icy over the past two years, particularly of late because OF differences over the war with Iraq.
Now, the president wanted to make it very clear in detail what his proposal was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These workers are of benefit to my country. These are hard-working, decent, honorable people that are in our country because -- to fill jobs that others won't take, on the one hand, and also to make a living to put money -- to get money and then to send money back to their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, while the president obviously making clear that he wants to give temporary legal status to illegal immigrants in the United States, he is, he said, again, opposed to any formal amnesty.
Now, as for President Fox, last week, Lou, you remember, he suggested that he wanted more out of this proposal. Today, he really embraced the idea, coming out with President Bush, saying, what we want is the plan presented by President Bush. He said, what else can we wish? But he also made clear he understands the domestic politics for Mr. Bush back home in the United States, saying that he hopes that there is a happy ending.
And on the politics front, Lou, of course, this is an international trip for President Bush, but there very much is a domestic audience, and that is the large, growing contingent of Hispanic voters that Republicans are trying to embrace. The president was asked about that today. He deflected whether or not this immigration proposal does have a ring of politics to it. All he would say is that, when it comes to debating this in Congress, he understands there will be a lot of politics at play, especially in an election year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, did the two presidents discuss the economic and social conditions in Mexico that are driving immigration, illegal immigration, in some cases, to the United States?
BASH: Yes, they came out at this press conference and said that, in their one-on-one meeting, they discussed a whole host of issues. And the economic condition certainly is an issue between these two men and also for the rest of the Latin American countries that are here.
The United States, as you know, wants to put trade on the agenda here. And that has rubbed some of the countries the wrong way. They want to focus on helping with poverty, to reduce poverty in these countries, and also to change -- to promote democratic institutions. The United States, as you know, thinks that those two things are very much intertwined and you can't separate the two -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash, reporting from Monterey, Mexico.
The president's immigration plan is controversial, to say the least. And tonight, we can report to you the results of the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. This poll found that a large majority of Americans believe the United States should not make it easier for illegal aliens to become citizens of this country. And most Americans disapprove of the president's immigration proposal.
Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider reports -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, what kind of reception is President Bush's new immigration policy getting? Don't ask. Actually, we did ask.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): ... no U.S. citizen wants. What does the American public think of that idea? Not much, it turns out.
The American public opposes the Bush immigration plan 55 to 42 percent. The plan is opposed by a majority of whites, nonwhites, Southerners, Westerners, low-income Americans, and high-income Americans, everybody, almost. Who likes the president's plan? Republicans. Most Republicans support the plan because, well, it's President Bush's plan.
BUSH: These workers are of benefit to my country. These are hard-working, decent, honorable people that are in our country because -- to fill jobs that others won't take.
SCHNEIDER: Does the American public agree with that? Yes and no.
Yes, more than three-quarters of Americans agree with President Bush that immigrants mostly take low-paying jobs Americans, don't want. But no, Americans do not agree with President Bush that immigrants help the economy. By better than 2-1, people say immigrants hurt the economy by driving down wages. How can people believe immigrants hurt the economy if they take jobs Americans don't want?
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Both of those sentiments are true. I think it's true that immigrants do take jobs many American workers would not take. But if those immigrants weren't here, those jobs would be of much higher quality.
SCHNEIDER: For instance:
BERNSTEIN: Imagine an immigrant worker working the late shift at 7-Eleven from midnight to 8:00, earning something like the minimum wage. That's probably exactly what people have in mind when they think taking jobs no American worker would take. That job, in the absence of so much immigrant labor, would either not exist or would have to pay significantly more to attract a domestic worker to it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Americans are very sensitive to the jobs issue right now, because the country has been struggling to recover jobs lost in the last recession, just like 10 years ago.
Coming out of the last recession back in 1993, nearly two-thirds of Americans said immigrants hurt the economy. Now, that figure dropped sharply in 1999 and 2000, when the economy was booming. Now it's back up again. When jobs are scarce, immigrants are unpopular -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this proposal, Bill, as you said, Republicans support it, but not by much, 53 percent. The reasoning there?
SCHNEIDER: The reasoning is, when we say the name President Bush, this is his proposal, a lot of Republicans instinctively say, we support it. But I'll tell you something. When we asked conservatives, do you support this policy, they were actually split right down the middle.
DOBBS: So the conventional wisdom that the conservatives and Republicans would be fighting the president in his own party, as it were on Capitol Hill, probably overstated.
It's interesting here, too, Bill -- and I'm sure you've experienced this on a number of other issues -- it's taken us some period of time to get the economists to focus on a couple of issues and to actually reveal the economic impact. Yet, intuitively, those people surveyed by our polling folks came up with the right answer.
SCHNEIDER: Well, they came up with an answer which our economists just said was exactly the right answer, that, yes, these jobs are taken by immigrants and Americans may not want them, but they do drive wages down. That's a sophisticated economic judgment. And the public really understands it.
DOBBS: The American people a lot smarter than generally given credit for, at least in Washington.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Thanks a lot, Bill Schneider.
SCHNEIDER: OK.
DOBBS: In announcing his plan to grant legal status to millions of illegal aliens in this country, President Bush maintained, those workers would fill jobs that Americans don't want.
Well, tonight, we began a series of special reports on some of the very hard-working Americans who are filling those jobs and who hope to continue to fill them into the future.
Bill Tucker begins tonight with the story of John Henault, a janitor by night, a machinist by day. And he loves his work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By any measure, John Henault is a hard-working man. He's a machinist by day, a janitor by night, a job he's not ashamed of.
JOHN HENAULT, MACHINIST/JANITOR: I don't mind it. I mean, I'm sure there's people that think it is a downgrading job or something, from cleaning. But I like it. I don't mind it.
TUCKER: He's equally unapologetic about who he thinks should get first crack at this kind of work.
HENAULT: Americans should have this job, instead of having foreigners doing it. If an American needs a job, the jobs are there for them.
TUCKER: John should know. He and his wife hold down four jobs between them to pay off bills and to make ends meet to support their two children.
He typically cleans two small branch offices of banks a night and will sometimes pick up extra work on weekends. The job lets him set his own pace, lets him work without supervision. And he needs the work.
HENAULT: Everybody's saying how tough the economy is. But there are jobs out there. If you need a job, take the job. I mean, get off of sitting around doing nothing and do something. I mean, you've got to start somewhere.
TUCKER: As for the argument this is a job Americans don't want to do, John's boss disagrees.
DANIELLE MCDONOUGH, BRENDA'S BEST CLEANING SERVICE: I wouldn't say that Americans don't particularly do this job. We're everywhere, the American people who are trying to make a living at doing something that other people don't want to do.
TUCKER: A typical day for John starts at 4:00 a.m. and doesn't end until he gets home at 10:00 at night, where it's finally lights out.
Bill Tucker, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The organization that represents all 9,000 rank-and-file Border Patrol agents today described President Bush's new immigration plan as a slap in the face.
The National Border Patrol Council said the president's plan to legalize millions of illegal aliens implies this country is not serious about immigration enforcement.
I'm joined now by Richard Pierce. He's executive vice president of the Border Patrol Council.
Good to have you with us.
RICHARD PIERCE, EXEC. VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Good evening, Lou. Nice to be here.
DOBBS: Those are strong words from your organization, representing thousands of Border Patrol agents. Why did you feel it was important to speak out right now?
PIERCE: Well, generally we're pretty much a nonpolitical organization. We don't get involved too much in the policies, the immigration policies put forth by the government.
But this one seemed to be such a stark -- contrary to what we do for a living, that we felt we had to speak up.
DOBBS: What is the attitude of your membership right now? They work long, hard hours. They work, in fact, in very dangerous conditions. Do they -- what is their feeling about their support from the government, from the American people?
PIERCE: Well, Lou, to tell you the truth, the support from the American people has been very good. We've gotten a lot of good e- mail, phone calls regarding our position on this.
However, we do have to wonder where the government stands. And we just can't help but feel that the president is getting some bad advice on this issue. And it's an issue that Congress needs to address, but nobody seems to be doing it very well.
DOBBS: This is an issue, as you know very well, that is -- it's controversial. It is emotional. And it is difficult to wrestle with intellectually.
But the fact is that your own umbrella organization, the AFL-CIO, takes a position quite differently than you, and your organization a member of the AFL-CIO. How do you square that up?
PIERCE: Well, we're just going to have to stand against the AFL- CIO on this issue.
Our members deserve strong representation on this. They go to work every day. They have rocks thrown at them. They're shot at. They're assaulted. We're the ones that are doing a very difficult job. And for someone to say that what you've done in the past just doesn't matter, we're going to legalize these people, we can't stand for that. And we won't let it go.
DOBBS: The Border Patrol, by any measure, even though a number of people are fond of saying that you have received far more resources, your budget is up, it is a fair statement, is it not, to say that you are seriously undermanned?
PIERCE: Absolutely, Lou.
When I came into Border Patrol, we had about 2,000 agents on duty. Now we've got in the neighborhood of 10,000. And it's still not enough. We certainly could use some more help.
DOBBS: And what would you have the president do in having made this proposal? What would you prefer, your organization, prefer he have done?
PIERCE: Well, I think the first thing that should be done regarding this is, close the border, seal it up, and then direct your attention towards a guest worker program, one that can be handled with aliens that are outside the country, not to someone that's here already in an illegal status.
DOBBS: Richard Pierce, you just said seal the border. A lot of people say that's un-American, it's totalitarian.
Let me ask you, first, how you respond to that. And, secondly, even if that were the desire of the American people, is it in fact reasonably possible?
PIERCE: Well, it's certainly possible, to the extent that you know who's coming and going.
Sealing the border, when I say that, I mean between the ports of entry. You can have legal immigration into the United States and know who's coming in here and protect the security of the homeland without worrying about who's coming through between the ports of entry.
DOBBS: Richard Pierce, let me ask you one final question. How many Border Patrol agents do you think it would take to effectively assure border security for the United States?
PIERCE: Well, that's a difficult question to answer.
I would say that some of the policies that are in effect regarding enforcement of the immigration laws need to be changed, as well as an increase in the manpower.
DOBBS: Richard Pierce, we thank you very much, National Border Patrol Council.
PIERCE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll be joined by New Mexico Governor bill Richardson. He has a huge population of Hispanics in his state, a difficult problem with illegal aliens in his state. And he says President Bush must do more on immigration reform. Governor Richardson joins us next.
Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, well, he has a huge problem tonight. He faces White House anger over his outspoken criticism of the president, his way of doing business.
And one week from the Iowa caucuses, Democratic presidential candidates step up their campaigns. And the state's leading newspaper has decided which candidate it wants to win. We'll be joined by the editor of "The Des Moines Register," Paul Anger.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My guest tonight says President Bush's plan to give temporary legal status to millions of illegal aliens in this country simply doesn't go far enough.
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson says the president missed an opportunity to substantially improve this country's immigration policy. The governor joins us tonight from Santa Fe.
Governor Richards, good to have you with us.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Vicente Fox, George Bush meeting in Monterey, both men embracing immigration reform. Yet our poll that we conducted over the past several days shows -- and it's got a margin of error of about 3 percent -- says a considerable majority of Americans simply think this idea is a very bad one. What do you think?
RICHARDSON: Well, I think the president's initiative is a step forward. It's a small step forward.
And what I meant, Lou, was that he had an opportunity to get these eight million immigrants out of the shadows with a workable immigration plan that led to a green card and some kind of legalization. I think President Fox is being a diplomat. At least you've got the process started, but it clearly doesn't go far enough.
And my worry is that there is no constituency for this proposal in the Congress. You mentioned those on the Republican side, the conservative side that say -- quote -- it's too generous. It opens up and rewards those that have come here legally. Yet there is no constituency, like I think potentially a number of Hispanic groups and Democrats and moderate Republicans, that would have wanted to see what I have examined as a pretty decent proposal in terms of Social Security benefits, some worker protections, but then, at the end of three years, no light at the end of the tunnel, a threat of deportation, rather than some kind of legalization status that leads towards bringing them under the rubric of America.
DOBBS: Governor, let's talk about constituency. You have the largest -- in percentage terms -- the largest of Hispanic population as a percentage of state population in the country. The president is accused of pandering to voters for the upcoming election.
There is such a crosscurrent of interests involved in this. You mentioned the Hispanic advocacy groups getting involved in illegal immigration. How do everyday folks sitting here trying to analyze this situation, with economists telling them that $190 to $200 billion in wages are lost because of heightened immigration levels, the huge cost that is diffused across taxpayer bases, that is, local, state and federal, for health care, for law enforcement, for a social safety net, how are they to equate what is the correct judgment on this issue, who is pandering, who is not? RICHARDSON: Well, I have not accused the president of pandering.
I do think, Lou, that the reality is that there are eight to 12 million undocumented workers in America. Many of them are paying taxes. They're part of the community. And I believe that it would have made sense to bring them out of the shadows without looking to politics and Hispanic votes.
And the concern that I now have is that there will be no passage of any legislation in the Congress, because there's no constituency. This issue will be punted until next year. And, in the meantime, states like mine, as you mentioned, New Mexico, that have a lot of immigrant children, that are strapped for health care costs, will still have to find some of the funds to deal with these problems.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But, Governor, if I may, why should the national base of taxpayers be paying for a large number of illegal immigrants in your state, California, and otherwise? They're there because employers are hiring them and paying them pathetic wages, in many cases. And the taxpayer is basically supporting the corporation that hires them, as well as the illegal immigrant, who has broken the law in crossing the border?
RICHARDSON: Well, Lou, as you have had in your excellent series on border and immigration, illegal immigration is a reality. It's here. It's going to continue. And what I think we need to do is deal with a problem with a realistic expectation and -- look, at the same time, these undocumented workers do a lot of work that most Americans don't want to do. So they're contributing to the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But, Governor, I hear that. And I've heard that from a number of Hispanic advocacy groups in particular, who have chosen, on the basis of ethnicity, to become a support group for illegal aliens.
And that creates another issue that we can talk about another day. But the fact is, American citizens are losing wages, $190 to $200 billion per year, because business is endorsing the idea of greater immigration, which depresses wages, instead of raising those wages, so any American citizen would be attracted to that work. It is a serious disconnect in the economy, is it not, in your judgment?
RICHARDSON: No. No, Lou, I think they perform a lot of work that, economically, many Americans don't want to do.
But, again, Lou, the reality is, what are you going to do, deport the eight to 12 million? You can't even find them.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: You said they were paying taxes, so we know where they are, don't we?
RICHARDSON: Well, yes, Lou, what do you want, to deport eight million
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: No, Governor, I don't. But I just want to point out the consistency here. If they're paying taxes and being upstanding citizens, we know where they are. I'm just saying, we've got to deal with the reality.
The issue to me is one of economics in society. And what I don't hear anybody saying, Governor, including you, sir, if I may, is what you're going to do at border so this isn't a continuing problem. We have a huge population growth issue here. No one is talking about the impact on the economy, our society. I just don't quite understand it. And I was hoping maybe you could illuminate it for me.
RICHARDSON: Well, look, I think every American, every member of Congress wants to see -- of course, you don't want to reward illegal immigration that comes in at the border.
I think President Fox needs to do more to keep Mexicans and his people well-fed and working. He hasn't done as good as he should. We can't resolve the problem in its entirety. What we can do is recognize that undocumented workers, or, as you say, illegal immigration, is a reality. So then what do you do with it? And my point is, I think the president took one decent first step in creating a temporary worker program for three years, where they come into society.
But, then, after three years, what I would have wanted to see was some benchmarks that lead to legalization, so that they are part of society and mainstream. But, again, I understand the point you're making.
DOBBS: Well, Governor, I'm trying desperately to understand a lot of points on this one. It's a very complex issue for all of us. And one hopes that we'll come to a solution that is best for the country and its future.
Governor Bill Richardson, as always, we appreciate you being here. I hope you'll come back soon to talk more about this very important issue.
RICHARDSON: Thank you. Thank you.
DOBBS: Tonight's quote is from a member of the Bush administration who did not necessarily clarify the issue, who said there will be no guarantees for illegal aliens, saying, "No guarantees they'll be able to stay permanently and no guarantee they won't be able to stay permanently" -- that from Commerce Secretary Don Evans.
Coming up next, our special report, "Made in America." This country's exploding trade deficit. And the thousands, the hundreds of thousands of American manufacturing jobs that have moved overseas and high-value jobs have forced the made-in-America campaign to consider reinventing itself. Also, the White House takes action after former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill admits to taking thousands of documents for a tell-all book and saying some unkind things about President Bush.
And one week to go before the Democratic presidential candidates face their first real test in the Iowa caucuses. The editor of "The Des Moines Register," Paul Anger, will be with us to talk about the paper's endorsement -- that and a great deal more still ahead.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In Iraq today, an American soldier was killed, two others wounded, in a bomb attack in central Baghdad. Nearly 500 American service men and women have been killed since the beginning of the war against Saddam Hussein in March. Another 100 troops have been killed in the war against radical Islamists in Afghanistan, the latest death Saturday. A soldier died of his injuries after a traffic accident near Kabul.
The Army War College today said the global war on terrorism and radical Islamists is unfocused. A report by the college's Strategic Studies Institute said the war in Iraq is -- quote -- "unnecessary and a detour that has diverted attention from the threat by al Qaeda." The report said the strain of fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq and the global war on terror has pushed the U.S. Army to its breaking point. The study recommends the Pentagon scale back the war in Iraq, and raise the size of the army and U.S. Marine Corps.
A dramatic new development tonight in the growing controversy over former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill's outspoken criticism of President Bush. O'Neill criticized the president on a range of issues from economic policy to Iraq, and even the president's leadership style. Tonight the Treasury Department said it wants an investigation into documents taken by O'Neill when he left office.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington tonight -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it looks like Paul O'Neill will have to answer more questions. This time, federal investigators want to know if the former treasury secretary released classified documents. In a sit-down interview on "60 minutes, " O'Neill supplied a number of documents to support his claim that the United States had its sights on going to war with Iraq even before the 9/11 attacks. O'Neill also described the president as being disengaged. Today in Mexico, President Bush responded to the criticism leveled by his former cabinet member.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We worked together when America was attacked on September the 11th, which changed how I viewed the world. September the 11th made me realize that America was no longer protected by oceans, and we had to take threats very seriously, no matter where they may be materializing. And the stated policy of my administration toward Saddam Hussein was very clear. Like the previous administration we were for regime change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: This interview was creating a firestorm within the administration. Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols said today, "based on the "60 Minutes" interview aired Sunday evening, there was a document shown that appeared to be classified. This matter has now been referred to the U.S. Inspector General's Office." O'Neill was asked if he anticipated the White House would lash out at him. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL O'NEILL, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: I will be really disappointed if they react that way, because I think they'll be hard put to...
DIANE SAWYER, CBS NEWS: But are you prepared for it?
O'NEILL: I don't think I need to be. Because I can't imagine that I'm going to be attacked for telling the truth. Why would I be attacked for telling the truth?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: O'Neill resigned December 6 of 2002 without giving a reason for his departure. But he and the president were at odds on a number of issues, including the president's tax cut plan -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
On the campaign trail tonight, Congressman Dick Gephardt told Iowa Democrats this country's weakness in trade talks has led to the export of American jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have not been tough in trade negotiations. We haven't insisted that these other countries get their conditions up, and it's hard to do. They're not going to do it unless we put pressure on them. And the pressure we've got is our marketplace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Gephardt is within striking distance of Howard Dean in Iowa in a new Reuters/NBC/Zogby poll. Just two points behind.
Democrat Kathleen Blanco becomes the first woman governor in Louisiana history. Blanco plans a healthcare summit and the expansion of economic development in the state. The Des Moines Register has endorsed North Carolina's senator, John Edwards. The state's largest newspaper celebrated Edwards' working class background. Joining me now to talk about the paper's endorsement, about the Iowa caucus, which are now one week away from tonight, the editor of the Des Moines Register, Paul Anger. Paul, good to have you with us.
PAUL ANGER, EDITOR, DES MOINES REGISTER: Glad to be here. My pleasure.
DOBBS: Paul, the -- one week away, the drama is building. And you've chosen John Edwards, some people surprise. What was the principal driving reason for the endorsement?
ANGER: Well, I think things move faster as you get closer to caucus night. Two months ago, Lou, if you'd asked us that, I think we would have said that we're not going to recommend John Edwards. We've been watching him closely, carefully. We believe that -- came to believe that he probably embodies the best combination of leadership, ability to win points, ability to make points with the other candidates, and with the elector at in a way that it does not disenfranchise, does not destroy, does not use a lot of vitriol. That, combined with his policies his solid policy base, the way that he is sort of approaching this campaign, cut the tether, he's not going to run for reelection for senator, so forth. We think he's got some moxie. And we think that that's taken hold in Iowa.
DOBBS: That moxie, are we going to see it on the issue of, for example, trade, outsourcing American jobs to cheaper overseas labor markets, for example?
ANGER: Well, I think he needs to bring some moxie to that. I think all of them -- all of the candidates need to bring that. Congressman Gephardt has talked about that. Congressman Kucinich has talked about it. I think that any candidate had better pay attention, not just to Iraq, but pay strong attention to the economy and the jobs and the exported jobs. Certainly that's an issue in Iowa.
DOBBS: It's an issue, certainly jobs are an issue nationwide. International trade, as we've just discussed, the idea of education, your state blessed with a terrific educational system. Other states not so blessed. Are you hearing from these candidates, not only John Edwards, a true vision of America and how we can talk about this country in terms other than as a marketplace, an economy, but as a nation with a vision of the future for working men and women in this country?
ANGER: Well, I think Edwards actually -- they all address that, sure, they do. I think Edwards has some credibility addressing that. Truly came not from means. Came from a family where he was the first, or one of the first to actually go to college. And probably came as close to pulling himself up by his boot straps as any of the candidates. They had all better be able to articulate a vision that brings America together and finds jobs, and finds the right jobs and finds a way to integrate immigration, as President Bush is trying to do now. I think that's got to resonate with the electorate, no matter who wants to be the next president. They're going to have to address that. DOBBS: Well, your next interview with Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt ought to be interesting, Paul. We thank you very much for spending time here. The "Des Moines Register" endorsing Senator John Edwards. Thanks, Paul.
Coming up next, record-shattering temperatures cripple the Northeast. Also we'll have "Your Thoughts" about the president's new immigration plan. A fascinating suggestion for the CEOs who want to export American jobs -- overseas. All of that, a great deal more still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Global warming paused over the weekend in the Northeast. A severe cold snap up and down the eastern seaboard. Forecasters are expecting more of the same through the week.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's only three degrees out and the water's 37 degrees. We're going in.
PETER VILES, CNNFN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some actually went swimming off Coney Island. Also off the New Hampshire coast. Thousands bundled up for NFL playoff games. Four degrees Fahrenheit in Foxboro, Massachusetts. So cold, this thermometer broke. In Philadelphia fans had the good sense to light a fire before the eagles game.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The key is I have my electric socks on.
VILES: But up and down the eastern seaboard, steam rose off the Atlantic Ocean, and the biggest sport was complaining.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's probably as cold as I've ever felt it. I've never felt anything so cold in any life.
VILES: Even in Maine they complained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the door opened, I thought, this has to be something like a freeze -- you know a deep freeze where they keep animal meat or something like that. And it just hits you in the face.
VILES: Cold this severe is dangerous. Three deaths were attributed to the cold snap. 5,000 New Yorkers complained to the city about lack of heat. No heat whatsoever in one big housing project.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People in here, they, you know, are using the oven. That's it. The oven and the stove. And that's unsafe.
VILES: There were burst water main pipes and some flooding in the Boston area. And one major embarrassment. Underground ice closed off one lane of the brand-new $14 billion big dig tunnel. The weather shattered some records. Three below at Boston's Logan Airport. Seven below in Scranton, Pennsylvania. 27 below in St. Johnsbury, Vermont.
The rest of the nation will feel the impact. Gas prices have surged 7 cents a gallon. And crude oil prices spiked to nearly $35 a barrel partly because another round of arctic weather is headed toward the northeast right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: We got a bit of a break from the cold today. Temperatures in the mid-30s in New York which is manageable. Cold weather, though, on the way. Single digits in southern England in the next couple of days. In northern New England there's what is called a wind chill watch. Wind chills there, in northern New England, could be as low as 50 below zero as soon as tomorrow night -- Lou.
DOBBS: Peter, I can't help but think about all the people in Minneapolis and Wisconsin and Illinois, thinking, what a wimp that Peter Viles is. Pete, thanks a lot.
Taking a look at other news in brief tonight. The Supreme Court has denied a request to review the secrecy surrounding foreigners detained following September 11. The government withheld demands and details about more than 700 detainees. Nearly all of them were Arab or Muslim. Many have since been deported.
Blood banks across the country are urging people to donate blood. The American Red Cross says inventories across the country are dangerously low now. Donations fell because, in part, of holiday travel, bad weather and a decline in blood drives.
NASA says a leaky hose may have caused the drop in cabin pressure on board the international space station. If the hose is confirmed to be the problem, a spare will be sent up as early as the end of this month on board a Russian spacecraft.
Coming up next, we begin a series of special reports. Made in America. Tonight, whatever happened to the "Made in the USA ad campaign?" Some surprising answers. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've reported for months on this program about the exporting of American jobs overseas. Hundreds of thousands of American jobs, millions of manufacturing jobs. Many of you have written in to the show and asked what's left that's truly made in America.
Well, this week, we'll be bringing some of the answers in our series of special reports. Tonight we begin with a look at whatever became of that label, and the advertising campaign, "Made in the USA." Susan Lisovicz reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember when union workers picketed foreign competitors? AD ANNOUNCER: We go out of our way to offer well-made American goods.
LISOVICZ: Or when Wal-Mart boasted about its "Made in America" program. That was about the time Hollywood said it shopped the union label. But these ads have faded to black. Just like the careers of some of the celebrities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look for the union label
LISOVICZ: The union that represents textile workers paid millions to air ads featuring singing garment workers. They, too, have been silenced.
BRUCE RAYNOR, PRESIDENT, UNITE: For us to advertise to the masses, to go into Macy's, and buy and look for ladies' blouses made in the United States, you will find none. So we need to send people on a mission that they can accomplish.
LISOVICZ: So what's mission No. 1? Changing U.S. trade policy. In the last decade, the U.S. has not only signed NAFTA, but also enacted trade agreements with Africa, the Caribbean and China. And all that free trade has created an avalanche of cheap overseas goods. Even products thought to be made in America, like Detroit's cars, have a growing list of parts made offshore. Since 1990, the U.S. trade deficit has more than quadrupled. Manufacturing is the biggest casualty.
JOCK NASH, MILLIKEN & CO.: We have a standard of living that has been created over 225 years of the sweat and blood of the American people. And now it's being frittered away.
LISOVICZ: Wal-Mart now imports an estimated $12 billion of goods annually from China.
DANA FRANK, AUTHOR, "BUY AMERICAN, THE UNTOLD STORY": The corporations are pursuing these very global strategies of how they reinvest our consumer dollars. And they're flying all over the world and sort of waving good-bye as they do it.
LISOVICZ: The result? Since 1990, more than half a million jobs evaporated in the textile industry alone.
AD ANNOUNCER: Because we don't realize the impact of buying imported goods...
LISOVICZ: This ad first ran more than ten years ago.
AD ANNOUNCER: And the worst part is, we're doing this to ourselves.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LISOVICZ: Polls show consumers would buy American if it saved jobs. But the retailers themselves don't buy American, which explains why the shelves are full of cheap imported goods -- Lou. DOBBS: Those cheap imported goods, obviously helping consumers. At the same time, as in that terrific report, Susan, to look back over the years, to think about those issues and how they changed. Our policymakers have got a few responsibilities in that.
LISOVICZ: It's an election year, Lou.
DOBBS: I noticed that, Susan. Thanks. Susan Lisovicz, we appreciate it. Tonight's thought is about work. "Everything that is really great and inspiring, is created by the individual who can labor in freedom." Albert Einstein.
And that brings us to the topic of tonight's poll. The question: "How important is it to the strength of our economy to be able to buy products made in America? Not at all? Somewhat? Very. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the show.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts on "Broken Borders" and "Exporting America." Tracy from Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania, said, "First came NAFTA, now comes Bush with a new immigration policy. What's next? Commonwealth of Mexico?"
Anne Cox, Brizandine of Lutkin, Texas. "Lou, people speak of annexing Mexico. That would not be possible as Mexico has already annexed the United States. The Mexican government has regained all its U.S. territories without firing a shot, and at the expense of American taxpayers."
Judy from Chicago. "Just so I understand the situation. The American middle class is supposed to tighten our belts despite having no jobs or health insurance, accept hordes of illegal aliens overrunning our country, and influencing our politicians, fork over billions of our tax dollars in aid to almost every nation in the world and not complain."
Paul Sisler of Everett, Washington. "It seems to me that the only way an American is going to be able to get a job soon is to move overseas. From what I can see, either China or India would be the place to go."
And Mick Horan of Bremerton, Washington, has a way to slow down the exporting of America. He's got an interesting idea. "Congress" he says, "needs to pass a law that says when American companies outsource their jobs overseas, the CEO and the board of directors must go there, too."
Interesting idea. And Norm Beznaska of Strongville, Ohio. "Lou, once high-tech American companies like Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard and IBM get through shipping our jobs overseas, maybe their cheap foreign labor can buy their products because we unemployed Americans won't."
And Peter Gold of Minneapolis, Minnesota, asked, "Lou, is corporate America supporting the president's initiative for permanent stations on the moon and Mars so there will be even more places to offshore and outsource American jobs?" We love hearing from you. E- mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.
Coming up next, the eight little words that some in Congress want banned from the airwaves for good.
But first, taking a look at the American companies our staff has confirmed to be exporting jobs from cheap foreign labor markets or employing cheap foreign labor instead of American workers. Tonight's additions include manufacturing firm Eaton, First Data Corporation, Merrill Corporation, one of the largest document management firms in the country, And Owens Corning. Please keep sending us those names of companies you know to be exporting America.
We'll continue in just one moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: On Wall Street, stocks up slightly after Friday's selloff. The Dow up 26 points. The Nasdaq up almost 25. The S&P up more than 5 points. Christine Romans is here with the markets -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That's still a new two-and-a-half-year high for the Nasdaq. We're in the beginning plays of this quarter's earnings game, Lou. Forth quarter profits expected up 22 percent. The current quarter sent up more modest, 13.5 percent. More than six quarters now of profit growth.
But watch out for the beat by a penny crowd. They are already howling, and last quarter we started to hear about whisper numbers, Lou.
DOBBS: Oh, that's fun.
ROMANS: Yeah. Exactly. Wall Street veterans say there's a tacit agreement between Wall Street hot shots that when a company beats by a penny, the stock rallies, regardless of the core performance of the company.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM MELCHER, BALESTRA CAPITAL: Earnings are paramount. The press, the media focuses on earnings almost obsessively. We're back in a new bubble here, and everyone's playing the old game again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The old game again. Who cares what Wall Street thinks? Some companies don't even give quarterly guidance anymore. Coke and McDonald's told Wall Street after the bubble burst that they wouldn't play this game anymore. Management doesn't strategize for the next 120 days, but for years ahead. There are still tech companies, Lou, that give updates every six weeks.
Also something to keep in mind when fourth-quarter earnings start coming in, earnings growth because of job cuts or outsourcing. Help from a weak dollar, faltering revenue trends, that's what investors care about. They want to know what's driving the bottom line, and the top line. They don't care if a company beats by a penny.
DOBBS: You've got to give those companies credit. And investors need to be paying attention to those well-run companies, and people like Warren Buffett, who have some influence on the direction of a few of them.
ROMANS: Yeah, exactly.
DOBBS: Christine, thanks. Christine Romans.
Coming up next, one congressman's battle to stop foul language on television and hold the networks accountable. That story is next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll. The question, how important is it to the strength of our economy to be able to buy products made in America? Four percent of you said not at all, 8 percent said somewhat. A very impressive 88 percent said very important.
And finally tonight, many critics contend television networks become increasingly lenient about broadcasting foul language on the air during live events. One Republican congressman from California is determined to hold the networks accountable for their language. Casey Wian has the story from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the band U2 accepted last year's Golden Globe award for best song in a movie, lead singer Bono couldn't contain his enthusiasm.
BONO, LEAD SINGER, U2: That's really, really (EXPLETIVE DELETED) brilliant.
WIAN: We bleeped the F word, but NBC didn't. The slip outraged many viewers and prompted an FCC inquiry. But because the word was used as an adjective, not to describe a sexual act, the FCC ruled the broadcast was not profane and levied no fines.
REP. DOUG OSE (R), CALIFORNIA: I received a ton of letters, a lot of e-mails.
WIAN: California Congressman Doug Ose is sponsoring a bill that would require the FCC to define any use of eight dirty words as profane.
OSE: For 50 years we've been able to communicate on public airwaves without using this language. What's changed that says now that if it's an adjective, you can use it, but if it's a verb you can't. I mean, this is crazy.
WIAN: A recent Parents Television Council study found a 75 percent increase in dirty words on broadcast networks during prime- time, from 1998 to 2002, to an average of more than six per hour. During the so-called family hour at 8:00, foul language nearly doubled.
LARA MAHANEY, PARENTS TELEVISION COUNCIL: We call it a race to the bottom of the barrel. But they think they have to compete with paid premium, you know, the HBO and "The Sopranos" and that type of thing, but I think they are not in tune with middle America.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you ever tried to get cow (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of a Prada purse? It's not so (EXPLETIVE DELETED) simple.
WIAN: That blue streak aired on Fox last month.
ROBERT THOMPSON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: I guess parents need to more treat their television sets now as they would treat the liquor cabinet.
WIAN: The FCC declined to comment on the proposed legislation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The bill would have no impact on cable TV, nor would it require tougher FCC penalties for broadcasters. However, a House subcommittee has scheduled hearings later this month to investigate the FCC's record of enforcing decency standards. But in an environment where presidential candidates, such as John Kerry, uses the F-word in an interview with a national magazine, you have to wonder how much of a difference those efforts will make -- Lou.
DOBBS: We can only hope, Casey. Thank you very much, Casey Wian, reporting from Los Angeles.
That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow, made in America. We take a look at what standards a product must meet in order to be stamped "made in America." And in our series of special reports, "America Works," we bring you the story of an American citizen gardener in California, and by the way, he loves his job. Please join us. For all of us here, good night from New York. Anderson Cooper is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Vs. Former Treasury Secretary; Made in America?>
Aired January 12, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox meet to talk about migration between their two countries. We'll have a live report from Monterey, Mexico. We'll be joined by New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, who says the president should do more for illegal aliens.
The president says his immigration proposal is designed to allow illegal aliens to remain in this country to do jobs that Americans don't want. Economists say those illegal aliens and high immigration levels depress working wages in the United States. Tonight, our series of special reports celebrating the men and women of this country who work in all sorts of jobs.
Tonight, a dramatic new development in the war of words between former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and the White House. The Treasury Department today called for an investigation into papers O'Neill took with him when he left office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Buy American and we won't have to throw in the towel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And this week, we begin our special reports, "Made in America." Do you remember when labels carried "Made in America" and that was a persuasive buying point in this country? Tonight, whatever happened to made in America?
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, January 12. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush is in Mexico tonight for the Summit of the Americas. Mr. Bush and Mexican president Vicente Fox held a joint news conference today in which both men embraced immigration reform.
White House correspondent Dana Bash reports from Monterey, Mexico -- Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, there are 34 leaders here at the Summit of Americas, but all eyes were on that first meeting between Presidents Bush and Fox.
And it was to see whether or not the immigration proposal that President Bush brought down here to Mexico that he unveiled just five days ago, whether that was enough to thaw relations between the two men, relations that have been quite icy over the past two years, particularly of late because OF differences over the war with Iraq.
Now, the president wanted to make it very clear in detail what his proposal was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These workers are of benefit to my country. These are hard-working, decent, honorable people that are in our country because -- to fill jobs that others won't take, on the one hand, and also to make a living to put money -- to get money and then to send money back to their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, while the president obviously making clear that he wants to give temporary legal status to illegal immigrants in the United States, he is, he said, again, opposed to any formal amnesty.
Now, as for President Fox, last week, Lou, you remember, he suggested that he wanted more out of this proposal. Today, he really embraced the idea, coming out with President Bush, saying, what we want is the plan presented by President Bush. He said, what else can we wish? But he also made clear he understands the domestic politics for Mr. Bush back home in the United States, saying that he hopes that there is a happy ending.
And on the politics front, Lou, of course, this is an international trip for President Bush, but there very much is a domestic audience, and that is the large, growing contingent of Hispanic voters that Republicans are trying to embrace. The president was asked about that today. He deflected whether or not this immigration proposal does have a ring of politics to it. All he would say is that, when it comes to debating this in Congress, he understands there will be a lot of politics at play, especially in an election year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, did the two presidents discuss the economic and social conditions in Mexico that are driving immigration, illegal immigration, in some cases, to the United States?
BASH: Yes, they came out at this press conference and said that, in their one-on-one meeting, they discussed a whole host of issues. And the economic condition certainly is an issue between these two men and also for the rest of the Latin American countries that are here.
The United States, as you know, wants to put trade on the agenda here. And that has rubbed some of the countries the wrong way. They want to focus on helping with poverty, to reduce poverty in these countries, and also to change -- to promote democratic institutions. The United States, as you know, thinks that those two things are very much intertwined and you can't separate the two -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash, reporting from Monterey, Mexico.
The president's immigration plan is controversial, to say the least. And tonight, we can report to you the results of the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. This poll found that a large majority of Americans believe the United States should not make it easier for illegal aliens to become citizens of this country. And most Americans disapprove of the president's immigration proposal.
Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider reports -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, what kind of reception is President Bush's new immigration policy getting? Don't ask. Actually, we did ask.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): ... no U.S. citizen wants. What does the American public think of that idea? Not much, it turns out.
The American public opposes the Bush immigration plan 55 to 42 percent. The plan is opposed by a majority of whites, nonwhites, Southerners, Westerners, low-income Americans, and high-income Americans, everybody, almost. Who likes the president's plan? Republicans. Most Republicans support the plan because, well, it's President Bush's plan.
BUSH: These workers are of benefit to my country. These are hard-working, decent, honorable people that are in our country because -- to fill jobs that others won't take.
SCHNEIDER: Does the American public agree with that? Yes and no.
Yes, more than three-quarters of Americans agree with President Bush that immigrants mostly take low-paying jobs Americans, don't want. But no, Americans do not agree with President Bush that immigrants help the economy. By better than 2-1, people say immigrants hurt the economy by driving down wages. How can people believe immigrants hurt the economy if they take jobs Americans don't want?
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Both of those sentiments are true. I think it's true that immigrants do take jobs many American workers would not take. But if those immigrants weren't here, those jobs would be of much higher quality.
SCHNEIDER: For instance:
BERNSTEIN: Imagine an immigrant worker working the late shift at 7-Eleven from midnight to 8:00, earning something like the minimum wage. That's probably exactly what people have in mind when they think taking jobs no American worker would take. That job, in the absence of so much immigrant labor, would either not exist or would have to pay significantly more to attract a domestic worker to it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Americans are very sensitive to the jobs issue right now, because the country has been struggling to recover jobs lost in the last recession, just like 10 years ago.
Coming out of the last recession back in 1993, nearly two-thirds of Americans said immigrants hurt the economy. Now, that figure dropped sharply in 1999 and 2000, when the economy was booming. Now it's back up again. When jobs are scarce, immigrants are unpopular -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this proposal, Bill, as you said, Republicans support it, but not by much, 53 percent. The reasoning there?
SCHNEIDER: The reasoning is, when we say the name President Bush, this is his proposal, a lot of Republicans instinctively say, we support it. But I'll tell you something. When we asked conservatives, do you support this policy, they were actually split right down the middle.
DOBBS: So the conventional wisdom that the conservatives and Republicans would be fighting the president in his own party, as it were on Capitol Hill, probably overstated.
It's interesting here, too, Bill -- and I'm sure you've experienced this on a number of other issues -- it's taken us some period of time to get the economists to focus on a couple of issues and to actually reveal the economic impact. Yet, intuitively, those people surveyed by our polling folks came up with the right answer.
SCHNEIDER: Well, they came up with an answer which our economists just said was exactly the right answer, that, yes, these jobs are taken by immigrants and Americans may not want them, but they do drive wages down. That's a sophisticated economic judgment. And the public really understands it.
DOBBS: The American people a lot smarter than generally given credit for, at least in Washington.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Thanks a lot, Bill Schneider.
SCHNEIDER: OK.
DOBBS: In announcing his plan to grant legal status to millions of illegal aliens in this country, President Bush maintained, those workers would fill jobs that Americans don't want.
Well, tonight, we began a series of special reports on some of the very hard-working Americans who are filling those jobs and who hope to continue to fill them into the future.
Bill Tucker begins tonight with the story of John Henault, a janitor by night, a machinist by day. And he loves his work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By any measure, John Henault is a hard-working man. He's a machinist by day, a janitor by night, a job he's not ashamed of.
JOHN HENAULT, MACHINIST/JANITOR: I don't mind it. I mean, I'm sure there's people that think it is a downgrading job or something, from cleaning. But I like it. I don't mind it.
TUCKER: He's equally unapologetic about who he thinks should get first crack at this kind of work.
HENAULT: Americans should have this job, instead of having foreigners doing it. If an American needs a job, the jobs are there for them.
TUCKER: John should know. He and his wife hold down four jobs between them to pay off bills and to make ends meet to support their two children.
He typically cleans two small branch offices of banks a night and will sometimes pick up extra work on weekends. The job lets him set his own pace, lets him work without supervision. And he needs the work.
HENAULT: Everybody's saying how tough the economy is. But there are jobs out there. If you need a job, take the job. I mean, get off of sitting around doing nothing and do something. I mean, you've got to start somewhere.
TUCKER: As for the argument this is a job Americans don't want to do, John's boss disagrees.
DANIELLE MCDONOUGH, BRENDA'S BEST CLEANING SERVICE: I wouldn't say that Americans don't particularly do this job. We're everywhere, the American people who are trying to make a living at doing something that other people don't want to do.
TUCKER: A typical day for John starts at 4:00 a.m. and doesn't end until he gets home at 10:00 at night, where it's finally lights out.
Bill Tucker, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The organization that represents all 9,000 rank-and-file Border Patrol agents today described President Bush's new immigration plan as a slap in the face.
The National Border Patrol Council said the president's plan to legalize millions of illegal aliens implies this country is not serious about immigration enforcement.
I'm joined now by Richard Pierce. He's executive vice president of the Border Patrol Council.
Good to have you with us.
RICHARD PIERCE, EXEC. VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Good evening, Lou. Nice to be here.
DOBBS: Those are strong words from your organization, representing thousands of Border Patrol agents. Why did you feel it was important to speak out right now?
PIERCE: Well, generally we're pretty much a nonpolitical organization. We don't get involved too much in the policies, the immigration policies put forth by the government.
But this one seemed to be such a stark -- contrary to what we do for a living, that we felt we had to speak up.
DOBBS: What is the attitude of your membership right now? They work long, hard hours. They work, in fact, in very dangerous conditions. Do they -- what is their feeling about their support from the government, from the American people?
PIERCE: Well, Lou, to tell you the truth, the support from the American people has been very good. We've gotten a lot of good e- mail, phone calls regarding our position on this.
However, we do have to wonder where the government stands. And we just can't help but feel that the president is getting some bad advice on this issue. And it's an issue that Congress needs to address, but nobody seems to be doing it very well.
DOBBS: This is an issue, as you know very well, that is -- it's controversial. It is emotional. And it is difficult to wrestle with intellectually.
But the fact is that your own umbrella organization, the AFL-CIO, takes a position quite differently than you, and your organization a member of the AFL-CIO. How do you square that up?
PIERCE: Well, we're just going to have to stand against the AFL- CIO on this issue.
Our members deserve strong representation on this. They go to work every day. They have rocks thrown at them. They're shot at. They're assaulted. We're the ones that are doing a very difficult job. And for someone to say that what you've done in the past just doesn't matter, we're going to legalize these people, we can't stand for that. And we won't let it go.
DOBBS: The Border Patrol, by any measure, even though a number of people are fond of saying that you have received far more resources, your budget is up, it is a fair statement, is it not, to say that you are seriously undermanned?
PIERCE: Absolutely, Lou.
When I came into Border Patrol, we had about 2,000 agents on duty. Now we've got in the neighborhood of 10,000. And it's still not enough. We certainly could use some more help.
DOBBS: And what would you have the president do in having made this proposal? What would you prefer, your organization, prefer he have done?
PIERCE: Well, I think the first thing that should be done regarding this is, close the border, seal it up, and then direct your attention towards a guest worker program, one that can be handled with aliens that are outside the country, not to someone that's here already in an illegal status.
DOBBS: Richard Pierce, you just said seal the border. A lot of people say that's un-American, it's totalitarian.
Let me ask you, first, how you respond to that. And, secondly, even if that were the desire of the American people, is it in fact reasonably possible?
PIERCE: Well, it's certainly possible, to the extent that you know who's coming and going.
Sealing the border, when I say that, I mean between the ports of entry. You can have legal immigration into the United States and know who's coming in here and protect the security of the homeland without worrying about who's coming through between the ports of entry.
DOBBS: Richard Pierce, let me ask you one final question. How many Border Patrol agents do you think it would take to effectively assure border security for the United States?
PIERCE: Well, that's a difficult question to answer.
I would say that some of the policies that are in effect regarding enforcement of the immigration laws need to be changed, as well as an increase in the manpower.
DOBBS: Richard Pierce, we thank you very much, National Border Patrol Council.
PIERCE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll be joined by New Mexico Governor bill Richardson. He has a huge population of Hispanics in his state, a difficult problem with illegal aliens in his state. And he says President Bush must do more on immigration reform. Governor Richardson joins us next.
Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, well, he has a huge problem tonight. He faces White House anger over his outspoken criticism of the president, his way of doing business.
And one week from the Iowa caucuses, Democratic presidential candidates step up their campaigns. And the state's leading newspaper has decided which candidate it wants to win. We'll be joined by the editor of "The Des Moines Register," Paul Anger.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My guest tonight says President Bush's plan to give temporary legal status to millions of illegal aliens in this country simply doesn't go far enough.
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson says the president missed an opportunity to substantially improve this country's immigration policy. The governor joins us tonight from Santa Fe.
Governor Richards, good to have you with us.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Vicente Fox, George Bush meeting in Monterey, both men embracing immigration reform. Yet our poll that we conducted over the past several days shows -- and it's got a margin of error of about 3 percent -- says a considerable majority of Americans simply think this idea is a very bad one. What do you think?
RICHARDSON: Well, I think the president's initiative is a step forward. It's a small step forward.
And what I meant, Lou, was that he had an opportunity to get these eight million immigrants out of the shadows with a workable immigration plan that led to a green card and some kind of legalization. I think President Fox is being a diplomat. At least you've got the process started, but it clearly doesn't go far enough.
And my worry is that there is no constituency for this proposal in the Congress. You mentioned those on the Republican side, the conservative side that say -- quote -- it's too generous. It opens up and rewards those that have come here legally. Yet there is no constituency, like I think potentially a number of Hispanic groups and Democrats and moderate Republicans, that would have wanted to see what I have examined as a pretty decent proposal in terms of Social Security benefits, some worker protections, but then, at the end of three years, no light at the end of the tunnel, a threat of deportation, rather than some kind of legalization status that leads towards bringing them under the rubric of America.
DOBBS: Governor, let's talk about constituency. You have the largest -- in percentage terms -- the largest of Hispanic population as a percentage of state population in the country. The president is accused of pandering to voters for the upcoming election.
There is such a crosscurrent of interests involved in this. You mentioned the Hispanic advocacy groups getting involved in illegal immigration. How do everyday folks sitting here trying to analyze this situation, with economists telling them that $190 to $200 billion in wages are lost because of heightened immigration levels, the huge cost that is diffused across taxpayer bases, that is, local, state and federal, for health care, for law enforcement, for a social safety net, how are they to equate what is the correct judgment on this issue, who is pandering, who is not? RICHARDSON: Well, I have not accused the president of pandering.
I do think, Lou, that the reality is that there are eight to 12 million undocumented workers in America. Many of them are paying taxes. They're part of the community. And I believe that it would have made sense to bring them out of the shadows without looking to politics and Hispanic votes.
And the concern that I now have is that there will be no passage of any legislation in the Congress, because there's no constituency. This issue will be punted until next year. And, in the meantime, states like mine, as you mentioned, New Mexico, that have a lot of immigrant children, that are strapped for health care costs, will still have to find some of the funds to deal with these problems.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But, Governor, if I may, why should the national base of taxpayers be paying for a large number of illegal immigrants in your state, California, and otherwise? They're there because employers are hiring them and paying them pathetic wages, in many cases. And the taxpayer is basically supporting the corporation that hires them, as well as the illegal immigrant, who has broken the law in crossing the border?
RICHARDSON: Well, Lou, as you have had in your excellent series on border and immigration, illegal immigration is a reality. It's here. It's going to continue. And what I think we need to do is deal with a problem with a realistic expectation and -- look, at the same time, these undocumented workers do a lot of work that most Americans don't want to do. So they're contributing to the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: But, Governor, I hear that. And I've heard that from a number of Hispanic advocacy groups in particular, who have chosen, on the basis of ethnicity, to become a support group for illegal aliens.
And that creates another issue that we can talk about another day. But the fact is, American citizens are losing wages, $190 to $200 billion per year, because business is endorsing the idea of greater immigration, which depresses wages, instead of raising those wages, so any American citizen would be attracted to that work. It is a serious disconnect in the economy, is it not, in your judgment?
RICHARDSON: No. No, Lou, I think they perform a lot of work that, economically, many Americans don't want to do.
But, again, Lou, the reality is, what are you going to do, deport the eight to 12 million? You can't even find them.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: You said they were paying taxes, so we know where they are, don't we?
RICHARDSON: Well, yes, Lou, what do you want, to deport eight million
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: No, Governor, I don't. But I just want to point out the consistency here. If they're paying taxes and being upstanding citizens, we know where they are. I'm just saying, we've got to deal with the reality.
The issue to me is one of economics in society. And what I don't hear anybody saying, Governor, including you, sir, if I may, is what you're going to do at border so this isn't a continuing problem. We have a huge population growth issue here. No one is talking about the impact on the economy, our society. I just don't quite understand it. And I was hoping maybe you could illuminate it for me.
RICHARDSON: Well, look, I think every American, every member of Congress wants to see -- of course, you don't want to reward illegal immigration that comes in at the border.
I think President Fox needs to do more to keep Mexicans and his people well-fed and working. He hasn't done as good as he should. We can't resolve the problem in its entirety. What we can do is recognize that undocumented workers, or, as you say, illegal immigration, is a reality. So then what do you do with it? And my point is, I think the president took one decent first step in creating a temporary worker program for three years, where they come into society.
But, then, after three years, what I would have wanted to see was some benchmarks that lead to legalization, so that they are part of society and mainstream. But, again, I understand the point you're making.
DOBBS: Well, Governor, I'm trying desperately to understand a lot of points on this one. It's a very complex issue for all of us. And one hopes that we'll come to a solution that is best for the country and its future.
Governor Bill Richardson, as always, we appreciate you being here. I hope you'll come back soon to talk more about this very important issue.
RICHARDSON: Thank you. Thank you.
DOBBS: Tonight's quote is from a member of the Bush administration who did not necessarily clarify the issue, who said there will be no guarantees for illegal aliens, saying, "No guarantees they'll be able to stay permanently and no guarantee they won't be able to stay permanently" -- that from Commerce Secretary Don Evans.
Coming up next, our special report, "Made in America." This country's exploding trade deficit. And the thousands, the hundreds of thousands of American manufacturing jobs that have moved overseas and high-value jobs have forced the made-in-America campaign to consider reinventing itself. Also, the White House takes action after former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill admits to taking thousands of documents for a tell-all book and saying some unkind things about President Bush.
And one week to go before the Democratic presidential candidates face their first real test in the Iowa caucuses. The editor of "The Des Moines Register," Paul Anger, will be with us to talk about the paper's endorsement -- that and a great deal more still ahead.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In Iraq today, an American soldier was killed, two others wounded, in a bomb attack in central Baghdad. Nearly 500 American service men and women have been killed since the beginning of the war against Saddam Hussein in March. Another 100 troops have been killed in the war against radical Islamists in Afghanistan, the latest death Saturday. A soldier died of his injuries after a traffic accident near Kabul.
The Army War College today said the global war on terrorism and radical Islamists is unfocused. A report by the college's Strategic Studies Institute said the war in Iraq is -- quote -- "unnecessary and a detour that has diverted attention from the threat by al Qaeda." The report said the strain of fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq and the global war on terror has pushed the U.S. Army to its breaking point. The study recommends the Pentagon scale back the war in Iraq, and raise the size of the army and U.S. Marine Corps.
A dramatic new development tonight in the growing controversy over former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill's outspoken criticism of President Bush. O'Neill criticized the president on a range of issues from economic policy to Iraq, and even the president's leadership style. Tonight the Treasury Department said it wants an investigation into documents taken by O'Neill when he left office.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington tonight -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it looks like Paul O'Neill will have to answer more questions. This time, federal investigators want to know if the former treasury secretary released classified documents. In a sit-down interview on "60 minutes, " O'Neill supplied a number of documents to support his claim that the United States had its sights on going to war with Iraq even before the 9/11 attacks. O'Neill also described the president as being disengaged. Today in Mexico, President Bush responded to the criticism leveled by his former cabinet member.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We worked together when America was attacked on September the 11th, which changed how I viewed the world. September the 11th made me realize that America was no longer protected by oceans, and we had to take threats very seriously, no matter where they may be materializing. And the stated policy of my administration toward Saddam Hussein was very clear. Like the previous administration we were for regime change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: This interview was creating a firestorm within the administration. Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols said today, "based on the "60 Minutes" interview aired Sunday evening, there was a document shown that appeared to be classified. This matter has now been referred to the U.S. Inspector General's Office." O'Neill was asked if he anticipated the White House would lash out at him. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL O'NEILL, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: I will be really disappointed if they react that way, because I think they'll be hard put to...
DIANE SAWYER, CBS NEWS: But are you prepared for it?
O'NEILL: I don't think I need to be. Because I can't imagine that I'm going to be attacked for telling the truth. Why would I be attacked for telling the truth?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: O'Neill resigned December 6 of 2002 without giving a reason for his departure. But he and the president were at odds on a number of issues, including the president's tax cut plan -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
On the campaign trail tonight, Congressman Dick Gephardt told Iowa Democrats this country's weakness in trade talks has led to the export of American jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have not been tough in trade negotiations. We haven't insisted that these other countries get their conditions up, and it's hard to do. They're not going to do it unless we put pressure on them. And the pressure we've got is our marketplace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Gephardt is within striking distance of Howard Dean in Iowa in a new Reuters/NBC/Zogby poll. Just two points behind.
Democrat Kathleen Blanco becomes the first woman governor in Louisiana history. Blanco plans a healthcare summit and the expansion of economic development in the state. The Des Moines Register has endorsed North Carolina's senator, John Edwards. The state's largest newspaper celebrated Edwards' working class background. Joining me now to talk about the paper's endorsement, about the Iowa caucus, which are now one week away from tonight, the editor of the Des Moines Register, Paul Anger. Paul, good to have you with us.
PAUL ANGER, EDITOR, DES MOINES REGISTER: Glad to be here. My pleasure.
DOBBS: Paul, the -- one week away, the drama is building. And you've chosen John Edwards, some people surprise. What was the principal driving reason for the endorsement?
ANGER: Well, I think things move faster as you get closer to caucus night. Two months ago, Lou, if you'd asked us that, I think we would have said that we're not going to recommend John Edwards. We've been watching him closely, carefully. We believe that -- came to believe that he probably embodies the best combination of leadership, ability to win points, ability to make points with the other candidates, and with the elector at in a way that it does not disenfranchise, does not destroy, does not use a lot of vitriol. That, combined with his policies his solid policy base, the way that he is sort of approaching this campaign, cut the tether, he's not going to run for reelection for senator, so forth. We think he's got some moxie. And we think that that's taken hold in Iowa.
DOBBS: That moxie, are we going to see it on the issue of, for example, trade, outsourcing American jobs to cheaper overseas labor markets, for example?
ANGER: Well, I think he needs to bring some moxie to that. I think all of them -- all of the candidates need to bring that. Congressman Gephardt has talked about that. Congressman Kucinich has talked about it. I think that any candidate had better pay attention, not just to Iraq, but pay strong attention to the economy and the jobs and the exported jobs. Certainly that's an issue in Iowa.
DOBBS: It's an issue, certainly jobs are an issue nationwide. International trade, as we've just discussed, the idea of education, your state blessed with a terrific educational system. Other states not so blessed. Are you hearing from these candidates, not only John Edwards, a true vision of America and how we can talk about this country in terms other than as a marketplace, an economy, but as a nation with a vision of the future for working men and women in this country?
ANGER: Well, I think Edwards actually -- they all address that, sure, they do. I think Edwards has some credibility addressing that. Truly came not from means. Came from a family where he was the first, or one of the first to actually go to college. And probably came as close to pulling himself up by his boot straps as any of the candidates. They had all better be able to articulate a vision that brings America together and finds jobs, and finds the right jobs and finds a way to integrate immigration, as President Bush is trying to do now. I think that's got to resonate with the electorate, no matter who wants to be the next president. They're going to have to address that. DOBBS: Well, your next interview with Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt ought to be interesting, Paul. We thank you very much for spending time here. The "Des Moines Register" endorsing Senator John Edwards. Thanks, Paul.
Coming up next, record-shattering temperatures cripple the Northeast. Also we'll have "Your Thoughts" about the president's new immigration plan. A fascinating suggestion for the CEOs who want to export American jobs -- overseas. All of that, a great deal more still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Global warming paused over the weekend in the Northeast. A severe cold snap up and down the eastern seaboard. Forecasters are expecting more of the same through the week.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's only three degrees out and the water's 37 degrees. We're going in.
PETER VILES, CNNFN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some actually went swimming off Coney Island. Also off the New Hampshire coast. Thousands bundled up for NFL playoff games. Four degrees Fahrenheit in Foxboro, Massachusetts. So cold, this thermometer broke. In Philadelphia fans had the good sense to light a fire before the eagles game.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The key is I have my electric socks on.
VILES: But up and down the eastern seaboard, steam rose off the Atlantic Ocean, and the biggest sport was complaining.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's probably as cold as I've ever felt it. I've never felt anything so cold in any life.
VILES: Even in Maine they complained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the door opened, I thought, this has to be something like a freeze -- you know a deep freeze where they keep animal meat or something like that. And it just hits you in the face.
VILES: Cold this severe is dangerous. Three deaths were attributed to the cold snap. 5,000 New Yorkers complained to the city about lack of heat. No heat whatsoever in one big housing project.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People in here, they, you know, are using the oven. That's it. The oven and the stove. And that's unsafe.
VILES: There were burst water main pipes and some flooding in the Boston area. And one major embarrassment. Underground ice closed off one lane of the brand-new $14 billion big dig tunnel. The weather shattered some records. Three below at Boston's Logan Airport. Seven below in Scranton, Pennsylvania. 27 below in St. Johnsbury, Vermont.
The rest of the nation will feel the impact. Gas prices have surged 7 cents a gallon. And crude oil prices spiked to nearly $35 a barrel partly because another round of arctic weather is headed toward the northeast right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: We got a bit of a break from the cold today. Temperatures in the mid-30s in New York which is manageable. Cold weather, though, on the way. Single digits in southern England in the next couple of days. In northern New England there's what is called a wind chill watch. Wind chills there, in northern New England, could be as low as 50 below zero as soon as tomorrow night -- Lou.
DOBBS: Peter, I can't help but think about all the people in Minneapolis and Wisconsin and Illinois, thinking, what a wimp that Peter Viles is. Pete, thanks a lot.
Taking a look at other news in brief tonight. The Supreme Court has denied a request to review the secrecy surrounding foreigners detained following September 11. The government withheld demands and details about more than 700 detainees. Nearly all of them were Arab or Muslim. Many have since been deported.
Blood banks across the country are urging people to donate blood. The American Red Cross says inventories across the country are dangerously low now. Donations fell because, in part, of holiday travel, bad weather and a decline in blood drives.
NASA says a leaky hose may have caused the drop in cabin pressure on board the international space station. If the hose is confirmed to be the problem, a spare will be sent up as early as the end of this month on board a Russian spacecraft.
Coming up next, we begin a series of special reports. Made in America. Tonight, whatever happened to the "Made in the USA ad campaign?" Some surprising answers. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've reported for months on this program about the exporting of American jobs overseas. Hundreds of thousands of American jobs, millions of manufacturing jobs. Many of you have written in to the show and asked what's left that's truly made in America.
Well, this week, we'll be bringing some of the answers in our series of special reports. Tonight we begin with a look at whatever became of that label, and the advertising campaign, "Made in the USA." Susan Lisovicz reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember when union workers picketed foreign competitors? AD ANNOUNCER: We go out of our way to offer well-made American goods.
LISOVICZ: Or when Wal-Mart boasted about its "Made in America" program. That was about the time Hollywood said it shopped the union label. But these ads have faded to black. Just like the careers of some of the celebrities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look for the union label
LISOVICZ: The union that represents textile workers paid millions to air ads featuring singing garment workers. They, too, have been silenced.
BRUCE RAYNOR, PRESIDENT, UNITE: For us to advertise to the masses, to go into Macy's, and buy and look for ladies' blouses made in the United States, you will find none. So we need to send people on a mission that they can accomplish.
LISOVICZ: So what's mission No. 1? Changing U.S. trade policy. In the last decade, the U.S. has not only signed NAFTA, but also enacted trade agreements with Africa, the Caribbean and China. And all that free trade has created an avalanche of cheap overseas goods. Even products thought to be made in America, like Detroit's cars, have a growing list of parts made offshore. Since 1990, the U.S. trade deficit has more than quadrupled. Manufacturing is the biggest casualty.
JOCK NASH, MILLIKEN & CO.: We have a standard of living that has been created over 225 years of the sweat and blood of the American people. And now it's being frittered away.
LISOVICZ: Wal-Mart now imports an estimated $12 billion of goods annually from China.
DANA FRANK, AUTHOR, "BUY AMERICAN, THE UNTOLD STORY": The corporations are pursuing these very global strategies of how they reinvest our consumer dollars. And they're flying all over the world and sort of waving good-bye as they do it.
LISOVICZ: The result? Since 1990, more than half a million jobs evaporated in the textile industry alone.
AD ANNOUNCER: Because we don't realize the impact of buying imported goods...
LISOVICZ: This ad first ran more than ten years ago.
AD ANNOUNCER: And the worst part is, we're doing this to ourselves.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LISOVICZ: Polls show consumers would buy American if it saved jobs. But the retailers themselves don't buy American, which explains why the shelves are full of cheap imported goods -- Lou. DOBBS: Those cheap imported goods, obviously helping consumers. At the same time, as in that terrific report, Susan, to look back over the years, to think about those issues and how they changed. Our policymakers have got a few responsibilities in that.
LISOVICZ: It's an election year, Lou.
DOBBS: I noticed that, Susan. Thanks. Susan Lisovicz, we appreciate it. Tonight's thought is about work. "Everything that is really great and inspiring, is created by the individual who can labor in freedom." Albert Einstein.
And that brings us to the topic of tonight's poll. The question: "How important is it to the strength of our economy to be able to buy products made in America? Not at all? Somewhat? Very. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the show.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts on "Broken Borders" and "Exporting America." Tracy from Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania, said, "First came NAFTA, now comes Bush with a new immigration policy. What's next? Commonwealth of Mexico?"
Anne Cox, Brizandine of Lutkin, Texas. "Lou, people speak of annexing Mexico. That would not be possible as Mexico has already annexed the United States. The Mexican government has regained all its U.S. territories without firing a shot, and at the expense of American taxpayers."
Judy from Chicago. "Just so I understand the situation. The American middle class is supposed to tighten our belts despite having no jobs or health insurance, accept hordes of illegal aliens overrunning our country, and influencing our politicians, fork over billions of our tax dollars in aid to almost every nation in the world and not complain."
Paul Sisler of Everett, Washington. "It seems to me that the only way an American is going to be able to get a job soon is to move overseas. From what I can see, either China or India would be the place to go."
And Mick Horan of Bremerton, Washington, has a way to slow down the exporting of America. He's got an interesting idea. "Congress" he says, "needs to pass a law that says when American companies outsource their jobs overseas, the CEO and the board of directors must go there, too."
Interesting idea. And Norm Beznaska of Strongville, Ohio. "Lou, once high-tech American companies like Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard and IBM get through shipping our jobs overseas, maybe their cheap foreign labor can buy their products because we unemployed Americans won't."
And Peter Gold of Minneapolis, Minnesota, asked, "Lou, is corporate America supporting the president's initiative for permanent stations on the moon and Mars so there will be even more places to offshore and outsource American jobs?" We love hearing from you. E- mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.
Coming up next, the eight little words that some in Congress want banned from the airwaves for good.
But first, taking a look at the American companies our staff has confirmed to be exporting jobs from cheap foreign labor markets or employing cheap foreign labor instead of American workers. Tonight's additions include manufacturing firm Eaton, First Data Corporation, Merrill Corporation, one of the largest document management firms in the country, And Owens Corning. Please keep sending us those names of companies you know to be exporting America.
We'll continue in just one moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: On Wall Street, stocks up slightly after Friday's selloff. The Dow up 26 points. The Nasdaq up almost 25. The S&P up more than 5 points. Christine Romans is here with the markets -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That's still a new two-and-a-half-year high for the Nasdaq. We're in the beginning plays of this quarter's earnings game, Lou. Forth quarter profits expected up 22 percent. The current quarter sent up more modest, 13.5 percent. More than six quarters now of profit growth.
But watch out for the beat by a penny crowd. They are already howling, and last quarter we started to hear about whisper numbers, Lou.
DOBBS: Oh, that's fun.
ROMANS: Yeah. Exactly. Wall Street veterans say there's a tacit agreement between Wall Street hot shots that when a company beats by a penny, the stock rallies, regardless of the core performance of the company.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM MELCHER, BALESTRA CAPITAL: Earnings are paramount. The press, the media focuses on earnings almost obsessively. We're back in a new bubble here, and everyone's playing the old game again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The old game again. Who cares what Wall Street thinks? Some companies don't even give quarterly guidance anymore. Coke and McDonald's told Wall Street after the bubble burst that they wouldn't play this game anymore. Management doesn't strategize for the next 120 days, but for years ahead. There are still tech companies, Lou, that give updates every six weeks.
Also something to keep in mind when fourth-quarter earnings start coming in, earnings growth because of job cuts or outsourcing. Help from a weak dollar, faltering revenue trends, that's what investors care about. They want to know what's driving the bottom line, and the top line. They don't care if a company beats by a penny.
DOBBS: You've got to give those companies credit. And investors need to be paying attention to those well-run companies, and people like Warren Buffett, who have some influence on the direction of a few of them.
ROMANS: Yeah, exactly.
DOBBS: Christine, thanks. Christine Romans.
Coming up next, one congressman's battle to stop foul language on television and hold the networks accountable. That story is next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll. The question, how important is it to the strength of our economy to be able to buy products made in America? Four percent of you said not at all, 8 percent said somewhat. A very impressive 88 percent said very important.
And finally tonight, many critics contend television networks become increasingly lenient about broadcasting foul language on the air during live events. One Republican congressman from California is determined to hold the networks accountable for their language. Casey Wian has the story from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the band U2 accepted last year's Golden Globe award for best song in a movie, lead singer Bono couldn't contain his enthusiasm.
BONO, LEAD SINGER, U2: That's really, really (EXPLETIVE DELETED) brilliant.
WIAN: We bleeped the F word, but NBC didn't. The slip outraged many viewers and prompted an FCC inquiry. But because the word was used as an adjective, not to describe a sexual act, the FCC ruled the broadcast was not profane and levied no fines.
REP. DOUG OSE (R), CALIFORNIA: I received a ton of letters, a lot of e-mails.
WIAN: California Congressman Doug Ose is sponsoring a bill that would require the FCC to define any use of eight dirty words as profane.
OSE: For 50 years we've been able to communicate on public airwaves without using this language. What's changed that says now that if it's an adjective, you can use it, but if it's a verb you can't. I mean, this is crazy.
WIAN: A recent Parents Television Council study found a 75 percent increase in dirty words on broadcast networks during prime- time, from 1998 to 2002, to an average of more than six per hour. During the so-called family hour at 8:00, foul language nearly doubled.
LARA MAHANEY, PARENTS TELEVISION COUNCIL: We call it a race to the bottom of the barrel. But they think they have to compete with paid premium, you know, the HBO and "The Sopranos" and that type of thing, but I think they are not in tune with middle America.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you ever tried to get cow (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of a Prada purse? It's not so (EXPLETIVE DELETED) simple.
WIAN: That blue streak aired on Fox last month.
ROBERT THOMPSON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: I guess parents need to more treat their television sets now as they would treat the liquor cabinet.
WIAN: The FCC declined to comment on the proposed legislation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The bill would have no impact on cable TV, nor would it require tougher FCC penalties for broadcasters. However, a House subcommittee has scheduled hearings later this month to investigate the FCC's record of enforcing decency standards. But in an environment where presidential candidates, such as John Kerry, uses the F-word in an interview with a national magazine, you have to wonder how much of a difference those efforts will make -- Lou.
DOBBS: We can only hope, Casey. Thank you very much, Casey Wian, reporting from Los Angeles.
That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow, made in America. We take a look at what standards a product must meet in order to be stamped "made in America." And in our series of special reports, "America Works," we bring you the story of an American citizen gardener in California, and by the way, he loves his job. Please join us. For all of us here, good night from New York. Anderson Cooper is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Vs. Former Treasury Secretary; Made in America?>
