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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Calls For Gay Marriage Ban; Fair Trade Groups Form Alliance
Aired February 24, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight: President Bush calls for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization.
DOBBS: They've had enough. Fair trade groups form a national alliance to fight the outsourcing of American jobs.
Tonight, a battle for this country's oldest environmental organization, anti-population growth, anti-immigration advocates are trying to win control of the Sierra Club.
In our special report tonight, "Failing Grades," America now faces a national crisis in math and science education.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we should have a moral outrage that this was allowed to persist for so long.
DOBBS: And tonight, I'll be joined by one of this country's leading advocates for education reform, Congressman Chaka Fattah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, February 24. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush today dramatically raised the stakes in the increasingly bitter debate over gay marriage. And President Bush introduced what most political strategists say is the strongest wedge issue of this heated presidential election year.
President Bush proposed a constitutional amendment that would ban marriage between partners of the same sex. Mr. Bush said some activist judges and local officials have been making an aggressive attempt to redefine marriage in this country.
Senior White House correspondent John King reports -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, the president now at the center of what is guaranteed to be an emotional, not only legal, but certainly a political debate in this presidential election year.
Mr. Bush has been under conservative pressure for months to offer his public views on whether a constitutional amendment is needed to ban gay marriage. Mr. Bush has been studying the issue. And today, in the Roosevelt Room here at the White House, the president said it is OK with him if states want to allow so-called civil unions and give gay couples legal and partnership benefits.
But the president said he has now decided a national constitutional amendment is necessary to preserve the institution of marriage as a between a man and a woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: America's a free society which limits the role of government in the lives of our citizens. This commitment of freedom, however, does not require the redefinition of one of our most basic social institutions. Our government should respect every person and protect the institution of marriage. There is no contradiction between these responsibilities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, back in the 2000 campaign, then Governor Bush said that gay marriage was a state issue. But aides say, he has been watching as these ceremonies take place in San Francisco, thousand of gay marriages allowed, licenses issued in defiance of state law, also court rulings up in Massachusetts and words that other local governments, including a county in New Mexico, might soon allow gay marriages.
So the president stepping into this debate, asking Congress to move quickly on a new constitutional amendment. Both Democratic presidential candidates oppose the president on this one, Lou. Mr. Bush says this is necessary. The Democrats say he is pandering to the right wing of his party. And public opinion is split. Two-thirds of American oppose gay marriage, but it is split just about 50/50 down the middle whether the question is whether the issue rises to the level of amending the Constitution.
Aides, Lou, tell us the president will not focus on this issue only today, but it will become part of his campaign stump speech in this election year -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, John, the Republican Party itself, are they united, the leadership? And Congress in particular, are they united with the president on this issue?
KING: It's an interesting question.
Some conservatives believe that this issue does not rise or at least not yet rise to the level of needing to propose and work and act on a constitutional amendment. There are several challenges pending to the federal Defense of Marriage Act passed back in the Clinton administration. Many conservatives say, let those cases make their way through the courts first and then only deal with a constitutional amendment if the Defense of Marriage Act is rejected, thrown out by the Supreme Court -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much.
The Democratic presidential candidates, as John just said, strongly criticized the president's announcement today. Senator John Kerry said Americans should be concerned that the president is -- quote -- "toying with the Constitution for political reasons" -- end quote. Senator Kerry does not support gay marriage and he says civil unions are the best way to protect the rights of gays.
Both he and Senator John Edwards say it's an issue that should be left to the states.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do not support -- I am against the president's constitutional amendment on gay marriage. I don't personally support gay marriage myself, but my position has always been that it's for the states to decide and it's for the state of Georgia to decide or any other state to decide. And I think the federal government should honor those decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The strong opposition from the Democrats indicates the president may have a tough time convincing Congress to support a constitutional amendment. Some political analysts say the amendment would never win the two-thirds majority required in both the Senate and the House.
Congressional correspondent Joe Johns reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is the kind of cultural issue that gets Congress all riled up, especially during an election year. For some, it's an appeal to their base voters.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Marriage has been set up by cultures in the past not to affirm the love of one person of another. If that were the case, mothers and daughters and fathers and sons could be married, if all it was about affirming love between two people.
JOHNS: For others, it's an opportunity to blast the administration.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The Constitution has often been amended to expand and protect people's rights, never to take away or restrict their rights. By endorsing this shameful proposal, President Bush will go down in history as the first president to try to write bias back into the Constitution.
JOHNS: But to pass the Congress and go onto the states for ratification, there are several hurdles. A constitutional amendment needs a two-thirds majority vote in both the House and Senate, which can be tough to achieve. The amendment also have to overcome concerns of some influential Republicans.
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: I will say that I'm not supportive of amending the Constitution on this issue. I believe it's a states right issue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Leaders to the House and Senate have said they would like to hold a vote on this issue. But, as previously noted, some of the rank-and-file are simply all over the place. And, for that reason, the leaders say they want to be careful about it -- Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, the leadership in the House and the Senate, what is the sense there that -- about their enthusiasm for this proposal?
JOHNS: Well, it's really a mixed bag, quite frankly, Lou.
Congressman Tom DeLay, the majority leader, has said he doesn't want a knee-jerk reaction on this. The problem is, they want to appeal to the conservative base and, at the same time, during an election year, they don't want to chase away social moderates, those swing voters who are so essentially in any election, Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, thank you very much.
Later here, we'll have more on the legal and political implications of this proposed amendment to the Constitution. I'll be joined by constitutional law scholar Noah Feldman and Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent of "The L.A. Times."
And of course, we want to hear your opinion on this issue in tonight's poll. The question: Would you support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in this country, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Politics of a different nature tonight splitting the nation's largest and oldest environmental group. The lack of a national immigration policy has divided the Sierra Club. Members of the Sierra Club are concerned about the impact of huge numbers of immigrants, both legal and illegal, on the environment.
And tonight, a power struggle is under way within the organization.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the deserts of Arizona, where illegal aliens leave trash and trample plants, to the freeways of Los Angeles, where rising population threatens to overwhelm the city's infrastructure, it's clear that uncontrolled immigration is hurting the environment. It's the collision of concerns about population growth, including immigration, that is now threatening to tear apart the Sierra Club, the nation's oldest environmental group. Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm is one of a handful of dissident board candidates demanding the Sierra Club take a stand against an immigrant-driven population explosion.
RICHARD LAMM, SIERRA CLUB DISSIDENT: Mass immigration is what is happening right now. The United States will stabilize its population by 2040 at the current birth rate. But immigration is going to double the size of America and then double it again. So I'm really very concerned about what the future of America is if we have a half a billion people or a billion people living here.
WIAN: In 1998, members voted to remain neutral on the issue of immigration.
LARRY FAHN, PRESIDENT, SIERRA CLUB: It's an issue that divides us terribly. And we have always been much more effective working on issues where we're united. And, yes, there has been a small but vocal segment of the Sierra Club 700,000 members that would like to turn our policy around on this.
WIAN: Advocates of immigration restrictions in the Sierra Club have become more active. A few have drawn the criticism of at least one civil rights organization.
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: There is no question that hate groups since last fall have been urging their members to join the Sierra Club specifically to try and sway the vote in such a way that the Club will adopt a kind of hard-line anti-immigration position.
WIAN: Dissidents deny any connection to hate groups who may support their efforts to win seats on the Sierra Club board. Lamm calls attempts to link them environmental McCarthyism; 13 former Sierra Club presidents warned in a letter to the current board that the 118-year-old organization would be destroyed if the dissidents win.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Club members begin votes in March, with results announced in April. Dissidents say they only need three more seats to control the 15-member board. And even if they don't succeed this time, they say the Sierra Club will eventually have to confront the effects of immigration on the environment -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, do we have any indication of the outcome of this vote?
WIAN: Well, like a lot of elections, it's going to depend on voter turnout. Last year's board election in the Sierra Club only drew 8.7 percent of the Sierra Club's members. So it depends on how many of those new activists turn out and vote in this mail-in election. A minority of the Sierra Club members could easily swing the outcome -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Casey.
Still ahead here, CIA Director George Tenet today issues a stark warning about the terrorist threat to this country. Also, a growing number of foreign countries have banned shipments of American beef and poultry. U.S. farmers are losing and stand to lose billions of dollars.
"Failing Grades," our special report this week, American high school students near the bottom of the class in mathematics and science. We'll have that report. And Congressman Chaka Fattah will be our guest.
And fighting the export of American jobs to cheap overseas markets, fair trade forces join forces to stop the outsourcing of American jobs -- those stories, a great deal more, still ahead here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: CIA Director George Tenet today warned Congress about the persisting threat to this country of radical Islamic terrorists. Tent told the Senate Intelligence Committee that terrorist networks are damaged, but they're still capable of targeting this country and U.S. interests around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Across the operational spectrum, air, maritime, special weapons, we have time and again uncovered plot that are chilling.
On aircraft plots alone, we have uncovered new plans to recruit pilots and to evade new security measures in Southeast Asia, the Middle East and Europe. Even catastrophic attacks on the scale of 9/11 remain within al Qaeda's reach. Make no mistake. These plots are hatched abroad, but they target U.S. soil and those of our allies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And the Pentagon today launched a criminal investigation into allegations that a Halliburton subsidiary overcharged the military for gasoline. Pentagon auditors say the military may have overpaid Kellogg, Brown & Root by as much as $61 million for gasoline brought into Iraq from Kuwait. Investigators say fuel from Turkey was cheaper by more than $1 a gallon. And they question whether KBR adequately shopped around for the best price.
More than a dozen nations around the world tonight have a complete ban against U.S. poultry products. That follows yesterday's discovery that chickens in Texas tested positive for a highly contagious strain of the bird flu. It's a different strain than the one that has already claimed 22 lives in Asia, but officials are taking no chances. Millions of chickens worldwide have been slaughtered in the effort to contain the spread of the virus, thousands of those in Texas.
But, as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, fear of the spread is threatening to devastate the entire U.S. meat industry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No chicken, no beef, 90 percent of U.S. beef exports have been banned in countries around the world because of fears of mad cow disease. And today, several countries banned U.S. poultry because of a recent outbreak of bird flu in Texas.
DAVID BYRNE, EUROPEAN UNION COMMISSIONER: It is highly contagious virus and, therefore, does require an immediate response from the European Union.
PILGRIM: Mexico, South Korea, Hong Kong, China, Japan, and Singapore are now banning poultry products. It's a $2 billion market for the United States. The top three export markets for U.S. beef, Japan, Mexico and South Korea, all banned U.S. beef since December.
At a Senate hearing today, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief economist said the beef export market is nearly $4 billion. And the ban could cost cattle farmers billions.
KEITH COLLINS, CHIEF ECONOMIST, USDA: Producer receipts from selling cattle and calves this year would be nearly $6 billion below last year's level if -- and I emphasize if -- we do not reopen our export markets.
PILGRIM: U.S. Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman today said -- quote -- "We're getting a bit frustrated with Mexico" -- unquote -- for not lifting bans on American beef. And trade economists often say bans often take months to lift.
GARY HUFBAUER, INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: The problem is the length that they stay in place way after the justified necessity for having them in place.
PILGRIM: That has more to do with restricting trade than restricting contagion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The U.S. Department of Agriculture had said they believe this strain of bird flu poses no threat to humans. And the outbreak of the other strain of bird flu in Delaware two weeks ago was successfully contained within days -- Lou.
DOBBS: And we should point out that the health officials are taking no chances in Texas, watching the workers there to make absolutely certain that what they believe is the truth.
PILGRIM: That's exactly right. The measures they are putting in place are great. And you can see they are very effective, because Delaware was quite successful. DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, coming up next here, new developments tonight on whether Martha Stewart will take the stand to defend herself against fraud charges. We'll have a live report for you from the federal courthouse.
And "Failing Grades." American students excel in math and science in grade school, but then rank near the bottom of the world by the time they graduate high school. Why? We'll have a special report.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Late developments in the case against Martha Stewart. Her defense attorneys plan to call only one witness, and that witness will not be Martha Stewart.
Mary Snow has the latest for us from the federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Stewart's defense team saying tonight that it plans on a 15-minute defense tomorrow with one witness.
And as for the decision not to put Martha Stewart on the stand, a person close to the defense team saying -- quote -- "The government failed to prove anything." Stewart's co-defendant and former stockbroker, Peter Bacanovic, also did not testify.
Now, tomorrow, Stewart's lawyers plan to put on the stand an attorney who was present at a meeting with Stewart and government investigators in February of 2002. They plan to have his testimony contradict what the FBI agent had earlier testified. The government will then plan to have a brief rebuttal, it says, then two days of summations. The judge will tell the court tomorrow whether the summations will be at the end of this week or the beginning of next week. And then, Lou, this case will go to the jury.
DOBBS: Mary, thank you very much -- Mary Snow.
Coming up next here, the debate over gay marriage and whether a constitutional amendment can pass and whether it is required. We'll be talking with constitutional law scholar Noah Feldman and Ron Brownstein of "The L.A. Times."
Also, outrage over the poor mathematics and science scores of American schoolchildren, the future of America's work force and its future, period. Our special report, "Failing Grades," coming up next.
And "Exporting America" tonight. More than four dozen fair trade groups fighting the shipment of American jobs overseas today joined forces to keep jobs in this country -- that, a great deal more, still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The nation's largest teacher's union tonight is calling for the resignation of the secretary of the Department of Education.
As we reported here last night, Secretary Rod Paige yesterday called the National Education Association a terrorist organization. The president of the NEA has appealed to President Bush to demand that Secretary Paige step down. Secretary Paige has apologized for that remark, which was made as an attempt of humor. The secretary has since called it an inappropriate choice of words.
Tonight, our series of special reports, "Failing Grades," education in America, focusing on the crisis in mathematics and science education in this country tonight. Last year, almost two- thirds of the electrical engineering doctorates awarded by universities in this country went to foreign students. Now private organizations and universities are taking action, trying to make science and math a priority for America.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kids are surrounded by it, their world is immersed in it, their entertainment made possible by it, but when it comes to learning math and science, it's a different matter.
Students in the United States consistently rank near the bottom of high school students in developed countries. But we don't start out that way. Our fourth grade students rank near the top of the world. Our eighth grade students start drifting down toward the middle of the pack. Notice a trend? It's happening, many argue, because we consistently fail to set high expectations for students. We need teachers trained in science and math and we need smaller classrooms in schools.
ROSS DEVOL, MILKEN INSTITUTE: I think we should have a moral outrage that this is allowed to persist for so long. I think it's so critical today that we need the leadership of business.
TUCKER: Increasingly, business and private foundations are getting involved. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has contributed $1.3 billion to public schools, has built 744 new schools, 40 of which are specifically for math and science.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you will all line up your robots.
TUCKER: In Upstate New York, the Rensselaer Polytech Institute is working with middle schools, and General Electric, IBM, Applied Materials are all along businesses with education partnerships.
SHIRLEY ANN JACKSON, PRESIDENT, RENSSELAER POLYTECH INSTITUTE: Major enterprises which have led the major job growth and job creation have come out of science and technology. And we know that these fields undergird our national security.
TUCKER: Educators agree. We need a national commitment, like the early '60s and the space race. There is little doubt about what is at stake.
JAMES HARVEY, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON: There used to be a wonderful sign in Seattle during the Boeing bust of the 1970s. It was on Route I-5 on the way to the airport. And it said, will the last person leaving Seattle please turn off the lights? And I think we may need another sign at our airports. It should say, will the last engineer leaving for India please leave behind instructions for maintaining our infrastructure?
TUCKER: The situation is almost that urgent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: The number of scientists in the United States reaching retirement age expected to triple over the next 10 years -- Lou.
DOBBS: Indeed, a crisis. Bill, thank you very much.
Well, my next guest introduced legislation to create a student's Bill of rights. The legislation would require states to provide students with the necessary resources before those students are tested, as laid out by the No Child Left Behind Act.
Democratic Congressman Chaka Fattah of Pennsylvania says public education is a national concern. The congressman has been a strong advocate for education reform and joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.
Good to have you with us, Congressman.
REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It's good to be here.
DOBBS: The idea of providing the resources that's envisioned by your legislation, you have more than 100 sponsors for the legislation now, how expensive do you expect it to be?
FATTAH: Well, I think that what we need to really conclude as a country is that, no matter how expensive investing in education may be, ignorance costs us more.
China produced 500,000 engineers last year. We produced 60,000. We saw a small country like Japan outproduce us in engineers for more than a decade. We need to invest. What my bill does is require states to do for poor children in their states what they do for other children. That is, in every one of our states, we have very well- equipped, well-funded, a well-staffed public school system and we also have for poorer children less of everything we know that they need.
And what we have to do is create a more even playing field. And, secondly, what we have to do is insist on higher standards. We have to provide advanced college opportunities for children before they leave high school. At least two years of high school in our country is wasted time. We need to -- a lot of the problems we have our kids being academically bored. We need to give them more rigor, not less. We need to demand more of them.
But we should not tell poor children that we want them to master math and science, but not have them ever have a math or science teacher who majored or minored in math, never have the access to the labs in their schools or the textbooks that they need.
DOBBS: As you know, it is not a problem simply for poor children in this country, wealthier communities are faced with many of the same issues. That is that your legislation addresses including the qualifications of teachers in mathematics and science in particular who frankly have never -- did not major in the subject and are not terrific teachers in those subjects.
Do you think that that can be solved in short order?
FATTAH: I think it's a major problem. President Bush and a few state of the unions back said wouldn't we have a great country if every child had a qualified teacher. Well, we need more than words. We need more in statements. We are going to have to invest substantially. I talked to the head of Texas Instruments. He said, look, it's impossible to have adults who majored in art history and English teach science. That doesn't make those people bad people. It's great they want to be teachers but we can't put them in our toughest schools, provide children who need the best opportunity, give them the least and then on top of it, test those children. I'm all for standardized testing but we should test children after they had a chance to learn and our country and you've been doing a whole piece on outsourcing. We are going to continue to outsource jobs if we don't provide the best educated work force we can.
DOBBS: Congressman, we thank you for being with us.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thank you.
Coming up next, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage?
The president controversial proposal. We'll be joined by Noah Feldman, a noted constitutional law scholar, and political correspondent Ron Brownstein of the he "Los Angeles Times." They will be here to talk about the implications and impact, both legal and political in this election year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush's support for a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage is driving the legal and political debate over rights to same sex couples. Joining me constitutional law scholar and New York University professor, Noah Feldman. Ron Brownstein national political correspondent for "The Los Angeles times." Thank you both for being here. Let me start, if I may, with you Ron, that is, did this surprise you that the president made the decision to move this quickly on this issue?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, the timing surprised me a little bit in it comes less than 24 hours after he deliver a major speech last night trying to establish some of his themes on the election. So in that sense he was stepping on his own news to some extent. But did not surprise me in the sense that he had been clearly driving in this direction for a while. Made clear, I think steadily, he was going to support some kind of constitutional amendment.
DOBBS: Noah, your judgments on this from the constitutional standpoint. Some may be taken aback the president would elevate this to the level of the constitution without first watching what happens in the federal republic, that is this issue wind its way through the local and state jurisdictions.
NOAH FELDMAN, ASST. PROF. OF LAW, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: It has always been a state issue in the United States not regulate bid the federal government. So, it is a little bit surprising that it would go to the constitution. One of the most striking things the president said is religion really matters. You can't separate marriage from its religious context. I think one answer to that is, that's the root of the problem here. We're treating marriage, which many Americans feel like is a religious issue, from the perspective of government. And traditionally in this country we have separated church and state rather than had the government make judgments about religion.
DOBBS: That's an interesting point.
Do you think it's going to be persuasive or compelling on the campaign trip?
BROWNSTEIN: I think the interesting point listening to, Noah, talk there, what we have seen in the last few elections, really the last 20 years, certainly accelerated in the 1990s voters are dividing more along the lines of value and interest. More along cultural than economic lines. If you look at the election in 2000, Lou, the single best predictor as we talked before of how people voted is how often they went to church. The more often you went to church the more likely you were to vote for George Bush. His coalition is a culturally conservative coalition, when you look at it form almost any angle.
I think like many things he has done as president, this is going to be very popular among the people who supported him. It's going to be a polarizing, though, for people who are resistant to him. He has a risk here while he's attracting culturally conservative voters driving away more moderate voters who also look a seance the same sort of arguments you just heard about whether he we are going too far in terms of a government decision to try to effect perhaps a religious viewpoint or extend a sort of religious viewpoint. So I think that there is risk in this, certainly there's risk for the Democrats, but there's risk for the president, as well.
DOBBS: The risk to the constitution, is there a legal risk here?
Is there a legal propriety or protocol, historical one, in making decisions to amend the constitution?
FELDMAN: When you bump something up to the constitutional level you involve the whole country in a debate. Traditionally the American people have been pretty cautious about changing the constitution. That's why we have a small number of amendments, where as lots of constitutions in the world have hundreds and hundreds of pages of amendments. So think there's a reason to think we shouldn't tinker with something that works as well as it does unless there's some very pressing moral reason to change the constitution, like letting women vote for example, you had to change the constitution.
DOBBS: Or prescribing the use of alcohol and admitting it back into the system or raising the pay.
FELDMAN: A good example of something where in the alcohol case, where Americans were sure that was the right thing do and a few years later said, we made a mistake.
DOBBS: Noah's point here comes interesting to me, Ron, and I'd like you to comment on it as well, as you know, we are looking at something that's sort of contesting both the validity and the nobility of both marriage and the constitution. The sacrosanct nature of both.
How will that play on the campaign trail?
BROWNSTEIN: That's why public opinion is very different on the issue of gay marriage and a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. There is considerable opposition to gay marriage but on whether it rises to the level of amending the constitution is a much more divided proposition. More closer to 50/50. There's a slight majority in the most recent CNN/Gallup poll. Others have added exactly 50/50. What is important it tends to reinforce the divide in the electorate at we saw in 2000. The question of an Constitutional amendment, Americans split pretty much along the same cultural and partisan lines we saw in the closely contested 2000 race. So, if President Bush is indeed committed to pushing this I think the implications of this is it tends to reinforce or rather than realign the red state, blue state situations we saw in 2000 and point to a very polarized close race, one of many factors pointing in that direction this year.
DOBBS: A powerful wedge issue then. And Noah, your final thoughts.
FELDMAN: I would hate to see this issue rip us apart the way, Ron, was just talking about. I think there's really one way out of that, that would be for us to realize the states shouldn't be in the business at all of deciding who can marry whom. Let the state give out one license to form a life partnership and not call it marriage. The minute we bring marriage in, the fact marriage is sacrosanct, is sacred to so many people, becomes a real problem. So, let the government have nothing to do with it and let people make whatever religious choice they want to make themselves about marriage. I think that in the long run might satisfy religious conservatives who believe marriage is a sacred matter and also satisfy people who want equality for all Americans.
DOBBS: You left out one group and that is one who look for civil marriages and are neither taken by the issues of marriage within religion or the group of people seeking same sex marriage.
FELDMAN: Well, I think most people who want a civil marriage who are opting out of religious option don't really mind the idea that that sort of a civil union would be available for everybody. As long as you call it a life union for everybody, I don't think there will be that much objection. I think most of the objection is coming from religious folks and they should be entitled to marry whom they want and when they want and how they want. There's no reason that that view should be the only view that dictates for all Americans.
DOBBS: Be careful, you're starting to sound like an activist judge. Noah Feldman, thanks for being with us. Ron Brownstein, as always, thanks for being here, look forward to talking to you.
Tonight's thought is on marriage. "When a match has equal partners, then I fear not." That from Greek dramatist Aeschylus. A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question, "Would you support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage? Yes or no?" Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you a little later in the broadcast.
Coming up next, a diverse, unlikely group of Americans band together to fight the exporting of American jobs overseas. We'll have a special report and I'll be talking with a leading public policy professor Ron Hira of the Rochester Institute of his battle to keep high-skilled engineering jobs in this country. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: News in brief now. Government supporters in Haiti have set up barricades on roads leading into the capital of Port-Au-Prince. Rebel forces already control the north of Haiti. They say they will attack the capital city within days. A special team of U.S. marines is now in position to protect the American embassy.
In Morocco, a powerful earthquake today killed an estimated 450 people. Rescuers say the number of dead is likely to rise as they search destroyed buildings. That earthquake had a magnitude of 6.5.
In Russia, President Putin today fired his prime minister and his entire cabinet. Their dismissals comes two weeks before an election. An election Putin is heavily favored to win.
We reported here for more than a year on the exportation of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. The exporting of America has targeted jobs in manufacturing services, the high technology industry as well as others. Tonight the Americans who lost their jobs in these fields are joining together. They are fighting to keep jobs in this country. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The leaders of the 52 groups fighting international outsourcing gathered at the National Press Club. They are trying to figure out the best way to push their message to stop the hemorrhaging of American jobs. John Bauman, former software engineer turned activist.
JOHN BAUMAN, THE ORGANIZATION FOR THE RIGHTS OF AMERICAN WORKERS: It's our corporations that are selling us down the tubes. We can't afford to take it anymore and we won't.
SYLVESTER: According to Forrester Research 40 percent of Fortune 1000 companies are estimated to send some work offshore. In the next ten to 15 years more than 3 million American jobs are expected to be gone. Don Sauder made integrated circuits in Reading, Pennsylvania for 24 years before being laid off.
DON SAUDER, LAID OFF WORKER: It's not easy at 56 to be retrained.
SYLVESTER: The groups are backing legislation introduced by Senator Chris Dodd that would permanently restrict private contractors from offshoring federal jobs. Right now, there is a one-year restriction in place that is set to expire this September. The bill would also bar state governments from receiving federal funds unless they can show the money will not be used to hire workers overseas.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: There are states today where if you end up being unemployed and you call the state office to find out what your benefits are you are speaking to someone in New Delhi, India. That's just wrong in my view.
SYLVESTER: Many states and the White House are expected to fight any ban against offshoring. But it is an election year and these groups are ready to flex the political muscle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: What is driving the members of these groups is the concern for their children. They realize if their jobs are in jeopardy, conditions are likely to be even worse for their kids who are in high school or college -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. Lisa Sylvester. My next guest is working to keep electrical and computer engineering jobs in this country. Ron Hira says the shipment of these jobs to cheap foreign labor markets has created the worst job market for engineers in 30 years. The professor has twice testified before Congress on the effects of outsourcing. Ron Hira is professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology, joining us tonight from Rochester. Good to have you with us, professor.
RON HIRA, ASST. PROF. OF PUBLIC POLICY, ROCHESTER INST. OF TECHNOLOGY: Great to be here. DOBBS: You have just seen in Lisa Sylvester's report, you have studied the issue, the fact is there is no empirical evidence to suggest in the short term that outsourcing does anything other than lower wages. Why are we as a nation and why are our public policymakers struggling with this issue that seems so in some ways extremely straightforward?
HIRA: Well, I think that one of the problems we have is that the debate has been shaped by offshoring advocates who have taken the mantle or used labels like free trade and frankly are passing along a lot of misinformation to give the impression that this is all very good for us. I think that they are underestimating the costs and also the risks there.
DOBBS: Let's talk about those costs in your best assessment.
HIRA: Well, there are a number of costs on the immediate term. We've got some of the worst unemployment situations for electrical engineers, for computer engineers that we have had in 30 years. And many of our members, we've had enough anecdotal evidence to say many of our members are very concerned about the future of their jobs. This is also having a chilling effect on students deciding whether to study these disciplines that can be easily offshored. We have also seen some wage depression amongst our consultant community.
DOBBS: Engineering has been the backbone of this country for decades, one can argue actually for centuries. To hear that engineering students may be walking away from that major, to hear that our engineers can't find work, that really goes straight to the heart of everything this country is and will be about, doesn't it?
HIRA: I find it very troubling that the offshoring advocates really haven't addressed this issue. The issue of long-term innovation and the impact of offshoring on long-term innovation. Really, engineers are at the heart of technological innovation and the future growth. It seems to me they have conveniently sort of forgotten about that aspect of things.
DOBBS: Last night Dr. Katherine Mann, as you know, who is the most often quoted source for those advocates of outsourcing talked about the direction of jobs, acknowledging dislocation, the short-term pain to me it's just simply pain, as I know it is to you. But saying that basically in the long run the economy will work through this. How do you react to that?
HIRA: Well, Dr. Mann paints a very rosy and optimistic scenario, but she's painting the scenario based on a number of theories that I think we need to sort of pick apart and analyze in a lot more depth. I think that's one of our concerns is that these scenarios and theories have not been discussed in a more analytic way. Let me say a couple of things about the...
DOBBS: I'm going to ask you to do that very quickly because we're going -- what I would like to do -- as a matter of fact, in fairness to Dr. Mann, I would like to ask you both to come back and we can have a discussion about those issues if that would work well for you.
HIRA: I'd be happy to.
DOBBS: Professor, I appreciate you being with us here this evening and we'll talk with Dr. Mann and see if we can organize the three of us in the same room. Thank you.
HIRA: I look forward to that.
DOBBS: Turning now to Wall Street, the market had a losing session, the Dow and the S&P down for a fifth straight day. The Dow down 43 points, the NASDAQ down two as was the S&P, almost. Christine Romans is here now and has the market for us.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's the longest losing streak for the Dow and the S&P now in more than a year. And, Lou, the catalyst today was a consumer confidence number that was the worst in four months. The conference board said consumers are disenchanted with the labor market. The NASDAQ is now flat for the year and many of the widely held tech stocks, Lou, they are in full blown correction. Lucent has retreated 20 percent from the year's high. Cisco down 21 percent. Intel and Hewlett-Packard down by 15 percent each. Also major losses for the housing finance giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae stocks.
Fed chief Alan Greenspan warned their unchecked growth could threaten the financial system. He worries that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stand behind almost $4 trillion of mortgages and have grown so big that if either got into trouble the government would have no choice but to bail it out. Fannie Mae said its delinquency rate is only .6 of 1 percent. It provided stability in the market. Freddie Mac said limiting debt issuance would just raise home mortgage costs -- Lou.
DOBBS: Both of those statements are impressionably true but what is not being discussed here, is as critics of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, for all the good they have done and do in this country, that is really the liability of the federal government.
ROMANS: Absolutely, these are sort of a hybrid kind of entity. They are chartered by Congress but they are held by shareholders. They are a public company. There's a perception, Greenspan says, that maybe the government has more responsibility there than it really does and that just benefits Freddie and Fanny.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you.
On this broadcast, with great frequency we beg for corporate leaders to show leadership in this country. Commitment to their stakeholders, to show imagination and above all integrity. Tonight we want to compliment IBM for an act that represents all of those values. IBM has decided to change its stock options plan for its top 300 executives.
Under the new IBM plan, those options would be exercised 10 percent higher than the market price on the day issued. The initiative is a brilliant way to align executive compensation with shareholders' interest. It puts shareholders interest above executive compensation. Tonight I just wanted to say to IBM, congratulations on that move. Now, about that outsourcing -- well, we'll take that up another night. Let's take a look at some more of your thoughts on outsourcing and exporting America.
Jim Mumley of Alburg, Vermont. "It would make better sense to elect a few hundred politicians who will fight for good-paying American jobs than to retrain thousands of workers for lower-paying jobs."
James Roberts of Naperville, Illinois. "Thank you for bringing these important issues to the forefront. Trade for the United States should mean helping other countries raise the standard of living but it is not fair trade when our standards are forced down."
And Paul Jeans of West Palm Beach, Florida. "Thanks for revealing the mystery of this jobless recovery. There is no such thing. The job market is booming in this recovery but not in the United States."
And Pat Frankinburger (ph) of LaPorte, Indiana. "I think it is obscene that American industries are outsourcing jobs to lower cost and increase profits. When I consider the millions of dollars in salaries that top executives are paid, they can take a 50 percent pay cut and still make hundreds of times the salaries of the average Joe and Jill that they force into unemployment.
On "Broken Borders" Charles of Washington, D.C. "Lou, do the math. If we allow illegal aliens become legal and we keep sending jobs overseas, soon there will be no middle class."
And Joe Marchi of Pennsylvania. If NAFTA is working for both Mexico and the United States then why do Mexican workers come north while U.S. factories go south?"
I have to tell you, Joe, that is a darn good question. We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com. Coming up next, new photos tonight from the surface of Mars. They have NASA scientists very excited. We'll tell you why and we'll show you those pictures. I suspect you're going to get excited, too.
Updating quickly the list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting America. The companies sending those jobs overseas. AMDA Networks, AO Smith, Caterpillar, Celestica, Frito Lay, Goodyear Tire and Rubber, Kellogg's, Kemet, Pepsico, and Sola Optical USA.
For that complete list log on to CNN.com/lou. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of tonight's poll. 18 percent of you support a constitution amendment to ban gay marriage. 82 percent do not. Finally tonight, NASA scientists leading the Mars exploration have photos of what they call the most exciting discovery to date of the Red Planet. The scientists are studying a rock many believe could hold proof that there was once water on Mars. Much speculated about, water. The Mars rover Opportunity located this rock. They named it El Capitan. It's been making its way towards the site for several days and now there is a heated debate among those scientists as to just what this rock is all about but they all agree on one thing. This finding is very exciting and they can't wait to find out more and that is what this mission is all about. Good job, NASA.
And that's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow we had been hoping to talk with legendary investor Warren Buffett, but he isn't feeling well. I talked to him this afternoon, and he's a little throaty, to put it mildly. So we'll have him join us at some point in the future. And we extend our wishes for a very speedy recovery, Warren.
We will be talking with Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe about the race for the White House. And face-off, "Exporting America." Adam Kolawa, CEO of a software company, says outsourcing isn't the enemy. Congressman Dan Burton of Indiana says, oh, yes, it is. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER" is next.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight: President Bush calls for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization.
DOBBS: They've had enough. Fair trade groups form a national alliance to fight the outsourcing of American jobs.
Tonight, a battle for this country's oldest environmental organization, anti-population growth, anti-immigration advocates are trying to win control of the Sierra Club.
In our special report tonight, "Failing Grades," America now faces a national crisis in math and science education.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we should have a moral outrage that this was allowed to persist for so long.
DOBBS: And tonight, I'll be joined by one of this country's leading advocates for education reform, Congressman Chaka Fattah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, February 24. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush today dramatically raised the stakes in the increasingly bitter debate over gay marriage. And President Bush introduced what most political strategists say is the strongest wedge issue of this heated presidential election year.
President Bush proposed a constitutional amendment that would ban marriage between partners of the same sex. Mr. Bush said some activist judges and local officials have been making an aggressive attempt to redefine marriage in this country.
Senior White House correspondent John King reports -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, the president now at the center of what is guaranteed to be an emotional, not only legal, but certainly a political debate in this presidential election year.
Mr. Bush has been under conservative pressure for months to offer his public views on whether a constitutional amendment is needed to ban gay marriage. Mr. Bush has been studying the issue. And today, in the Roosevelt Room here at the White House, the president said it is OK with him if states want to allow so-called civil unions and give gay couples legal and partnership benefits.
But the president said he has now decided a national constitutional amendment is necessary to preserve the institution of marriage as a between a man and a woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: America's a free society which limits the role of government in the lives of our citizens. This commitment of freedom, however, does not require the redefinition of one of our most basic social institutions. Our government should respect every person and protect the institution of marriage. There is no contradiction between these responsibilities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, back in the 2000 campaign, then Governor Bush said that gay marriage was a state issue. But aides say, he has been watching as these ceremonies take place in San Francisco, thousand of gay marriages allowed, licenses issued in defiance of state law, also court rulings up in Massachusetts and words that other local governments, including a county in New Mexico, might soon allow gay marriages.
So the president stepping into this debate, asking Congress to move quickly on a new constitutional amendment. Both Democratic presidential candidates oppose the president on this one, Lou. Mr. Bush says this is necessary. The Democrats say he is pandering to the right wing of his party. And public opinion is split. Two-thirds of American oppose gay marriage, but it is split just about 50/50 down the middle whether the question is whether the issue rises to the level of amending the Constitution.
Aides, Lou, tell us the president will not focus on this issue only today, but it will become part of his campaign stump speech in this election year -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, John, the Republican Party itself, are they united, the leadership? And Congress in particular, are they united with the president on this issue?
KING: It's an interesting question.
Some conservatives believe that this issue does not rise or at least not yet rise to the level of needing to propose and work and act on a constitutional amendment. There are several challenges pending to the federal Defense of Marriage Act passed back in the Clinton administration. Many conservatives say, let those cases make their way through the courts first and then only deal with a constitutional amendment if the Defense of Marriage Act is rejected, thrown out by the Supreme Court -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much.
The Democratic presidential candidates, as John just said, strongly criticized the president's announcement today. Senator John Kerry said Americans should be concerned that the president is -- quote -- "toying with the Constitution for political reasons" -- end quote. Senator Kerry does not support gay marriage and he says civil unions are the best way to protect the rights of gays.
Both he and Senator John Edwards say it's an issue that should be left to the states.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do not support -- I am against the president's constitutional amendment on gay marriage. I don't personally support gay marriage myself, but my position has always been that it's for the states to decide and it's for the state of Georgia to decide or any other state to decide. And I think the federal government should honor those decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The strong opposition from the Democrats indicates the president may have a tough time convincing Congress to support a constitutional amendment. Some political analysts say the amendment would never win the two-thirds majority required in both the Senate and the House.
Congressional correspondent Joe Johns reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is the kind of cultural issue that gets Congress all riled up, especially during an election year. For some, it's an appeal to their base voters.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Marriage has been set up by cultures in the past not to affirm the love of one person of another. If that were the case, mothers and daughters and fathers and sons could be married, if all it was about affirming love between two people.
JOHNS: For others, it's an opportunity to blast the administration.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The Constitution has often been amended to expand and protect people's rights, never to take away or restrict their rights. By endorsing this shameful proposal, President Bush will go down in history as the first president to try to write bias back into the Constitution.
JOHNS: But to pass the Congress and go onto the states for ratification, there are several hurdles. A constitutional amendment needs a two-thirds majority vote in both the House and Senate, which can be tough to achieve. The amendment also have to overcome concerns of some influential Republicans.
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: I will say that I'm not supportive of amending the Constitution on this issue. I believe it's a states right issue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Leaders to the House and Senate have said they would like to hold a vote on this issue. But, as previously noted, some of the rank-and-file are simply all over the place. And, for that reason, the leaders say they want to be careful about it -- Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, the leadership in the House and the Senate, what is the sense there that -- about their enthusiasm for this proposal?
JOHNS: Well, it's really a mixed bag, quite frankly, Lou.
Congressman Tom DeLay, the majority leader, has said he doesn't want a knee-jerk reaction on this. The problem is, they want to appeal to the conservative base and, at the same time, during an election year, they don't want to chase away social moderates, those swing voters who are so essentially in any election, Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, thank you very much.
Later here, we'll have more on the legal and political implications of this proposed amendment to the Constitution. I'll be joined by constitutional law scholar Noah Feldman and Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent of "The L.A. Times."
And of course, we want to hear your opinion on this issue in tonight's poll. The question: Would you support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in this country, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Politics of a different nature tonight splitting the nation's largest and oldest environmental group. The lack of a national immigration policy has divided the Sierra Club. Members of the Sierra Club are concerned about the impact of huge numbers of immigrants, both legal and illegal, on the environment.
And tonight, a power struggle is under way within the organization.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the deserts of Arizona, where illegal aliens leave trash and trample plants, to the freeways of Los Angeles, where rising population threatens to overwhelm the city's infrastructure, it's clear that uncontrolled immigration is hurting the environment. It's the collision of concerns about population growth, including immigration, that is now threatening to tear apart the Sierra Club, the nation's oldest environmental group. Former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm is one of a handful of dissident board candidates demanding the Sierra Club take a stand against an immigrant-driven population explosion.
RICHARD LAMM, SIERRA CLUB DISSIDENT: Mass immigration is what is happening right now. The United States will stabilize its population by 2040 at the current birth rate. But immigration is going to double the size of America and then double it again. So I'm really very concerned about what the future of America is if we have a half a billion people or a billion people living here.
WIAN: In 1998, members voted to remain neutral on the issue of immigration.
LARRY FAHN, PRESIDENT, SIERRA CLUB: It's an issue that divides us terribly. And we have always been much more effective working on issues where we're united. And, yes, there has been a small but vocal segment of the Sierra Club 700,000 members that would like to turn our policy around on this.
WIAN: Advocates of immigration restrictions in the Sierra Club have become more active. A few have drawn the criticism of at least one civil rights organization.
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: There is no question that hate groups since last fall have been urging their members to join the Sierra Club specifically to try and sway the vote in such a way that the Club will adopt a kind of hard-line anti-immigration position.
WIAN: Dissidents deny any connection to hate groups who may support their efforts to win seats on the Sierra Club board. Lamm calls attempts to link them environmental McCarthyism; 13 former Sierra Club presidents warned in a letter to the current board that the 118-year-old organization would be destroyed if the dissidents win.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Club members begin votes in March, with results announced in April. Dissidents say they only need three more seats to control the 15-member board. And even if they don't succeed this time, they say the Sierra Club will eventually have to confront the effects of immigration on the environment -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, do we have any indication of the outcome of this vote?
WIAN: Well, like a lot of elections, it's going to depend on voter turnout. Last year's board election in the Sierra Club only drew 8.7 percent of the Sierra Club's members. So it depends on how many of those new activists turn out and vote in this mail-in election. A minority of the Sierra Club members could easily swing the outcome -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Casey.
Still ahead here, CIA Director George Tenet today issues a stark warning about the terrorist threat to this country. Also, a growing number of foreign countries have banned shipments of American beef and poultry. U.S. farmers are losing and stand to lose billions of dollars.
"Failing Grades," our special report this week, American high school students near the bottom of the class in mathematics and science. We'll have that report. And Congressman Chaka Fattah will be our guest.
And fighting the export of American jobs to cheap overseas markets, fair trade forces join forces to stop the outsourcing of American jobs -- those stories, a great deal more, still ahead here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: CIA Director George Tenet today warned Congress about the persisting threat to this country of radical Islamic terrorists. Tent told the Senate Intelligence Committee that terrorist networks are damaged, but they're still capable of targeting this country and U.S. interests around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Across the operational spectrum, air, maritime, special weapons, we have time and again uncovered plot that are chilling.
On aircraft plots alone, we have uncovered new plans to recruit pilots and to evade new security measures in Southeast Asia, the Middle East and Europe. Even catastrophic attacks on the scale of 9/11 remain within al Qaeda's reach. Make no mistake. These plots are hatched abroad, but they target U.S. soil and those of our allies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And the Pentagon today launched a criminal investigation into allegations that a Halliburton subsidiary overcharged the military for gasoline. Pentagon auditors say the military may have overpaid Kellogg, Brown & Root by as much as $61 million for gasoline brought into Iraq from Kuwait. Investigators say fuel from Turkey was cheaper by more than $1 a gallon. And they question whether KBR adequately shopped around for the best price.
More than a dozen nations around the world tonight have a complete ban against U.S. poultry products. That follows yesterday's discovery that chickens in Texas tested positive for a highly contagious strain of the bird flu. It's a different strain than the one that has already claimed 22 lives in Asia, but officials are taking no chances. Millions of chickens worldwide have been slaughtered in the effort to contain the spread of the virus, thousands of those in Texas.
But, as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, fear of the spread is threatening to devastate the entire U.S. meat industry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No chicken, no beef, 90 percent of U.S. beef exports have been banned in countries around the world because of fears of mad cow disease. And today, several countries banned U.S. poultry because of a recent outbreak of bird flu in Texas.
DAVID BYRNE, EUROPEAN UNION COMMISSIONER: It is highly contagious virus and, therefore, does require an immediate response from the European Union.
PILGRIM: Mexico, South Korea, Hong Kong, China, Japan, and Singapore are now banning poultry products. It's a $2 billion market for the United States. The top three export markets for U.S. beef, Japan, Mexico and South Korea, all banned U.S. beef since December.
At a Senate hearing today, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief economist said the beef export market is nearly $4 billion. And the ban could cost cattle farmers billions.
KEITH COLLINS, CHIEF ECONOMIST, USDA: Producer receipts from selling cattle and calves this year would be nearly $6 billion below last year's level if -- and I emphasize if -- we do not reopen our export markets.
PILGRIM: U.S. Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman today said -- quote -- "We're getting a bit frustrated with Mexico" -- unquote -- for not lifting bans on American beef. And trade economists often say bans often take months to lift.
GARY HUFBAUER, INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: The problem is the length that they stay in place way after the justified necessity for having them in place.
PILGRIM: That has more to do with restricting trade than restricting contagion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The U.S. Department of Agriculture had said they believe this strain of bird flu poses no threat to humans. And the outbreak of the other strain of bird flu in Delaware two weeks ago was successfully contained within days -- Lou.
DOBBS: And we should point out that the health officials are taking no chances in Texas, watching the workers there to make absolutely certain that what they believe is the truth.
PILGRIM: That's exactly right. The measures they are putting in place are great. And you can see they are very effective, because Delaware was quite successful. DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, coming up next here, new developments tonight on whether Martha Stewart will take the stand to defend herself against fraud charges. We'll have a live report for you from the federal courthouse.
And "Failing Grades." American students excel in math and science in grade school, but then rank near the bottom of the world by the time they graduate high school. Why? We'll have a special report.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Late developments in the case against Martha Stewart. Her defense attorneys plan to call only one witness, and that witness will not be Martha Stewart.
Mary Snow has the latest for us from the federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Stewart's defense team saying tonight that it plans on a 15-minute defense tomorrow with one witness.
And as for the decision not to put Martha Stewart on the stand, a person close to the defense team saying -- quote -- "The government failed to prove anything." Stewart's co-defendant and former stockbroker, Peter Bacanovic, also did not testify.
Now, tomorrow, Stewart's lawyers plan to put on the stand an attorney who was present at a meeting with Stewart and government investigators in February of 2002. They plan to have his testimony contradict what the FBI agent had earlier testified. The government will then plan to have a brief rebuttal, it says, then two days of summations. The judge will tell the court tomorrow whether the summations will be at the end of this week or the beginning of next week. And then, Lou, this case will go to the jury.
DOBBS: Mary, thank you very much -- Mary Snow.
Coming up next here, the debate over gay marriage and whether a constitutional amendment can pass and whether it is required. We'll be talking with constitutional law scholar Noah Feldman and Ron Brownstein of "The L.A. Times."
Also, outrage over the poor mathematics and science scores of American schoolchildren, the future of America's work force and its future, period. Our special report, "Failing Grades," coming up next.
And "Exporting America" tonight. More than four dozen fair trade groups fighting the shipment of American jobs overseas today joined forces to keep jobs in this country -- that, a great deal more, still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The nation's largest teacher's union tonight is calling for the resignation of the secretary of the Department of Education.
As we reported here last night, Secretary Rod Paige yesterday called the National Education Association a terrorist organization. The president of the NEA has appealed to President Bush to demand that Secretary Paige step down. Secretary Paige has apologized for that remark, which was made as an attempt of humor. The secretary has since called it an inappropriate choice of words.
Tonight, our series of special reports, "Failing Grades," education in America, focusing on the crisis in mathematics and science education in this country tonight. Last year, almost two- thirds of the electrical engineering doctorates awarded by universities in this country went to foreign students. Now private organizations and universities are taking action, trying to make science and math a priority for America.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kids are surrounded by it, their world is immersed in it, their entertainment made possible by it, but when it comes to learning math and science, it's a different matter.
Students in the United States consistently rank near the bottom of high school students in developed countries. But we don't start out that way. Our fourth grade students rank near the top of the world. Our eighth grade students start drifting down toward the middle of the pack. Notice a trend? It's happening, many argue, because we consistently fail to set high expectations for students. We need teachers trained in science and math and we need smaller classrooms in schools.
ROSS DEVOL, MILKEN INSTITUTE: I think we should have a moral outrage that this is allowed to persist for so long. I think it's so critical today that we need the leadership of business.
TUCKER: Increasingly, business and private foundations are getting involved. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has contributed $1.3 billion to public schools, has built 744 new schools, 40 of which are specifically for math and science.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you will all line up your robots.
TUCKER: In Upstate New York, the Rensselaer Polytech Institute is working with middle schools, and General Electric, IBM, Applied Materials are all along businesses with education partnerships.
SHIRLEY ANN JACKSON, PRESIDENT, RENSSELAER POLYTECH INSTITUTE: Major enterprises which have led the major job growth and job creation have come out of science and technology. And we know that these fields undergird our national security.
TUCKER: Educators agree. We need a national commitment, like the early '60s and the space race. There is little doubt about what is at stake.
JAMES HARVEY, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON: There used to be a wonderful sign in Seattle during the Boeing bust of the 1970s. It was on Route I-5 on the way to the airport. And it said, will the last person leaving Seattle please turn off the lights? And I think we may need another sign at our airports. It should say, will the last engineer leaving for India please leave behind instructions for maintaining our infrastructure?
TUCKER: The situation is almost that urgent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: The number of scientists in the United States reaching retirement age expected to triple over the next 10 years -- Lou.
DOBBS: Indeed, a crisis. Bill, thank you very much.
Well, my next guest introduced legislation to create a student's Bill of rights. The legislation would require states to provide students with the necessary resources before those students are tested, as laid out by the No Child Left Behind Act.
Democratic Congressman Chaka Fattah of Pennsylvania says public education is a national concern. The congressman has been a strong advocate for education reform and joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.
Good to have you with us, Congressman.
REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It's good to be here.
DOBBS: The idea of providing the resources that's envisioned by your legislation, you have more than 100 sponsors for the legislation now, how expensive do you expect it to be?
FATTAH: Well, I think that what we need to really conclude as a country is that, no matter how expensive investing in education may be, ignorance costs us more.
China produced 500,000 engineers last year. We produced 60,000. We saw a small country like Japan outproduce us in engineers for more than a decade. We need to invest. What my bill does is require states to do for poor children in their states what they do for other children. That is, in every one of our states, we have very well- equipped, well-funded, a well-staffed public school system and we also have for poorer children less of everything we know that they need.
And what we have to do is create a more even playing field. And, secondly, what we have to do is insist on higher standards. We have to provide advanced college opportunities for children before they leave high school. At least two years of high school in our country is wasted time. We need to -- a lot of the problems we have our kids being academically bored. We need to give them more rigor, not less. We need to demand more of them.
But we should not tell poor children that we want them to master math and science, but not have them ever have a math or science teacher who majored or minored in math, never have the access to the labs in their schools or the textbooks that they need.
DOBBS: As you know, it is not a problem simply for poor children in this country, wealthier communities are faced with many of the same issues. That is that your legislation addresses including the qualifications of teachers in mathematics and science in particular who frankly have never -- did not major in the subject and are not terrific teachers in those subjects.
Do you think that that can be solved in short order?
FATTAH: I think it's a major problem. President Bush and a few state of the unions back said wouldn't we have a great country if every child had a qualified teacher. Well, we need more than words. We need more in statements. We are going to have to invest substantially. I talked to the head of Texas Instruments. He said, look, it's impossible to have adults who majored in art history and English teach science. That doesn't make those people bad people. It's great they want to be teachers but we can't put them in our toughest schools, provide children who need the best opportunity, give them the least and then on top of it, test those children. I'm all for standardized testing but we should test children after they had a chance to learn and our country and you've been doing a whole piece on outsourcing. We are going to continue to outsource jobs if we don't provide the best educated work force we can.
DOBBS: Congressman, we thank you for being with us.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thank you.
Coming up next, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage?
The president controversial proposal. We'll be joined by Noah Feldman, a noted constitutional law scholar, and political correspondent Ron Brownstein of the he "Los Angeles Times." They will be here to talk about the implications and impact, both legal and political in this election year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush's support for a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage is driving the legal and political debate over rights to same sex couples. Joining me constitutional law scholar and New York University professor, Noah Feldman. Ron Brownstein national political correspondent for "The Los Angeles times." Thank you both for being here. Let me start, if I may, with you Ron, that is, did this surprise you that the president made the decision to move this quickly on this issue?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, the timing surprised me a little bit in it comes less than 24 hours after he deliver a major speech last night trying to establish some of his themes on the election. So in that sense he was stepping on his own news to some extent. But did not surprise me in the sense that he had been clearly driving in this direction for a while. Made clear, I think steadily, he was going to support some kind of constitutional amendment.
DOBBS: Noah, your judgments on this from the constitutional standpoint. Some may be taken aback the president would elevate this to the level of the constitution without first watching what happens in the federal republic, that is this issue wind its way through the local and state jurisdictions.
NOAH FELDMAN, ASST. PROF. OF LAW, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: It has always been a state issue in the United States not regulate bid the federal government. So, it is a little bit surprising that it would go to the constitution. One of the most striking things the president said is religion really matters. You can't separate marriage from its religious context. I think one answer to that is, that's the root of the problem here. We're treating marriage, which many Americans feel like is a religious issue, from the perspective of government. And traditionally in this country we have separated church and state rather than had the government make judgments about religion.
DOBBS: That's an interesting point.
Do you think it's going to be persuasive or compelling on the campaign trip?
BROWNSTEIN: I think the interesting point listening to, Noah, talk there, what we have seen in the last few elections, really the last 20 years, certainly accelerated in the 1990s voters are dividing more along the lines of value and interest. More along cultural than economic lines. If you look at the election in 2000, Lou, the single best predictor as we talked before of how people voted is how often they went to church. The more often you went to church the more likely you were to vote for George Bush. His coalition is a culturally conservative coalition, when you look at it form almost any angle.
I think like many things he has done as president, this is going to be very popular among the people who supported him. It's going to be a polarizing, though, for people who are resistant to him. He has a risk here while he's attracting culturally conservative voters driving away more moderate voters who also look a seance the same sort of arguments you just heard about whether he we are going too far in terms of a government decision to try to effect perhaps a religious viewpoint or extend a sort of religious viewpoint. So I think that there is risk in this, certainly there's risk for the Democrats, but there's risk for the president, as well.
DOBBS: The risk to the constitution, is there a legal risk here?
Is there a legal propriety or protocol, historical one, in making decisions to amend the constitution?
FELDMAN: When you bump something up to the constitutional level you involve the whole country in a debate. Traditionally the American people have been pretty cautious about changing the constitution. That's why we have a small number of amendments, where as lots of constitutions in the world have hundreds and hundreds of pages of amendments. So think there's a reason to think we shouldn't tinker with something that works as well as it does unless there's some very pressing moral reason to change the constitution, like letting women vote for example, you had to change the constitution.
DOBBS: Or prescribing the use of alcohol and admitting it back into the system or raising the pay.
FELDMAN: A good example of something where in the alcohol case, where Americans were sure that was the right thing do and a few years later said, we made a mistake.
DOBBS: Noah's point here comes interesting to me, Ron, and I'd like you to comment on it as well, as you know, we are looking at something that's sort of contesting both the validity and the nobility of both marriage and the constitution. The sacrosanct nature of both.
How will that play on the campaign trail?
BROWNSTEIN: That's why public opinion is very different on the issue of gay marriage and a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. There is considerable opposition to gay marriage but on whether it rises to the level of amending the constitution is a much more divided proposition. More closer to 50/50. There's a slight majority in the most recent CNN/Gallup poll. Others have added exactly 50/50. What is important it tends to reinforce the divide in the electorate at we saw in 2000. The question of an Constitutional amendment, Americans split pretty much along the same cultural and partisan lines we saw in the closely contested 2000 race. So, if President Bush is indeed committed to pushing this I think the implications of this is it tends to reinforce or rather than realign the red state, blue state situations we saw in 2000 and point to a very polarized close race, one of many factors pointing in that direction this year.
DOBBS: A powerful wedge issue then. And Noah, your final thoughts.
FELDMAN: I would hate to see this issue rip us apart the way, Ron, was just talking about. I think there's really one way out of that, that would be for us to realize the states shouldn't be in the business at all of deciding who can marry whom. Let the state give out one license to form a life partnership and not call it marriage. The minute we bring marriage in, the fact marriage is sacrosanct, is sacred to so many people, becomes a real problem. So, let the government have nothing to do with it and let people make whatever religious choice they want to make themselves about marriage. I think that in the long run might satisfy religious conservatives who believe marriage is a sacred matter and also satisfy people who want equality for all Americans.
DOBBS: You left out one group and that is one who look for civil marriages and are neither taken by the issues of marriage within religion or the group of people seeking same sex marriage.
FELDMAN: Well, I think most people who want a civil marriage who are opting out of religious option don't really mind the idea that that sort of a civil union would be available for everybody. As long as you call it a life union for everybody, I don't think there will be that much objection. I think most of the objection is coming from religious folks and they should be entitled to marry whom they want and when they want and how they want. There's no reason that that view should be the only view that dictates for all Americans.
DOBBS: Be careful, you're starting to sound like an activist judge. Noah Feldman, thanks for being with us. Ron Brownstein, as always, thanks for being here, look forward to talking to you.
Tonight's thought is on marriage. "When a match has equal partners, then I fear not." That from Greek dramatist Aeschylus. A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question, "Would you support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage? Yes or no?" Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you a little later in the broadcast.
Coming up next, a diverse, unlikely group of Americans band together to fight the exporting of American jobs overseas. We'll have a special report and I'll be talking with a leading public policy professor Ron Hira of the Rochester Institute of his battle to keep high-skilled engineering jobs in this country. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: News in brief now. Government supporters in Haiti have set up barricades on roads leading into the capital of Port-Au-Prince. Rebel forces already control the north of Haiti. They say they will attack the capital city within days. A special team of U.S. marines is now in position to protect the American embassy.
In Morocco, a powerful earthquake today killed an estimated 450 people. Rescuers say the number of dead is likely to rise as they search destroyed buildings. That earthquake had a magnitude of 6.5.
In Russia, President Putin today fired his prime minister and his entire cabinet. Their dismissals comes two weeks before an election. An election Putin is heavily favored to win.
We reported here for more than a year on the exportation of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. The exporting of America has targeted jobs in manufacturing services, the high technology industry as well as others. Tonight the Americans who lost their jobs in these fields are joining together. They are fighting to keep jobs in this country. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The leaders of the 52 groups fighting international outsourcing gathered at the National Press Club. They are trying to figure out the best way to push their message to stop the hemorrhaging of American jobs. John Bauman, former software engineer turned activist.
JOHN BAUMAN, THE ORGANIZATION FOR THE RIGHTS OF AMERICAN WORKERS: It's our corporations that are selling us down the tubes. We can't afford to take it anymore and we won't.
SYLVESTER: According to Forrester Research 40 percent of Fortune 1000 companies are estimated to send some work offshore. In the next ten to 15 years more than 3 million American jobs are expected to be gone. Don Sauder made integrated circuits in Reading, Pennsylvania for 24 years before being laid off.
DON SAUDER, LAID OFF WORKER: It's not easy at 56 to be retrained.
SYLVESTER: The groups are backing legislation introduced by Senator Chris Dodd that would permanently restrict private contractors from offshoring federal jobs. Right now, there is a one-year restriction in place that is set to expire this September. The bill would also bar state governments from receiving federal funds unless they can show the money will not be used to hire workers overseas.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: There are states today where if you end up being unemployed and you call the state office to find out what your benefits are you are speaking to someone in New Delhi, India. That's just wrong in my view.
SYLVESTER: Many states and the White House are expected to fight any ban against offshoring. But it is an election year and these groups are ready to flex the political muscle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: What is driving the members of these groups is the concern for their children. They realize if their jobs are in jeopardy, conditions are likely to be even worse for their kids who are in high school or college -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. Lisa Sylvester. My next guest is working to keep electrical and computer engineering jobs in this country. Ron Hira says the shipment of these jobs to cheap foreign labor markets has created the worst job market for engineers in 30 years. The professor has twice testified before Congress on the effects of outsourcing. Ron Hira is professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology, joining us tonight from Rochester. Good to have you with us, professor.
RON HIRA, ASST. PROF. OF PUBLIC POLICY, ROCHESTER INST. OF TECHNOLOGY: Great to be here. DOBBS: You have just seen in Lisa Sylvester's report, you have studied the issue, the fact is there is no empirical evidence to suggest in the short term that outsourcing does anything other than lower wages. Why are we as a nation and why are our public policymakers struggling with this issue that seems so in some ways extremely straightforward?
HIRA: Well, I think that one of the problems we have is that the debate has been shaped by offshoring advocates who have taken the mantle or used labels like free trade and frankly are passing along a lot of misinformation to give the impression that this is all very good for us. I think that they are underestimating the costs and also the risks there.
DOBBS: Let's talk about those costs in your best assessment.
HIRA: Well, there are a number of costs on the immediate term. We've got some of the worst unemployment situations for electrical engineers, for computer engineers that we have had in 30 years. And many of our members, we've had enough anecdotal evidence to say many of our members are very concerned about the future of their jobs. This is also having a chilling effect on students deciding whether to study these disciplines that can be easily offshored. We have also seen some wage depression amongst our consultant community.
DOBBS: Engineering has been the backbone of this country for decades, one can argue actually for centuries. To hear that engineering students may be walking away from that major, to hear that our engineers can't find work, that really goes straight to the heart of everything this country is and will be about, doesn't it?
HIRA: I find it very troubling that the offshoring advocates really haven't addressed this issue. The issue of long-term innovation and the impact of offshoring on long-term innovation. Really, engineers are at the heart of technological innovation and the future growth. It seems to me they have conveniently sort of forgotten about that aspect of things.
DOBBS: Last night Dr. Katherine Mann, as you know, who is the most often quoted source for those advocates of outsourcing talked about the direction of jobs, acknowledging dislocation, the short-term pain to me it's just simply pain, as I know it is to you. But saying that basically in the long run the economy will work through this. How do you react to that?
HIRA: Well, Dr. Mann paints a very rosy and optimistic scenario, but she's painting the scenario based on a number of theories that I think we need to sort of pick apart and analyze in a lot more depth. I think that's one of our concerns is that these scenarios and theories have not been discussed in a more analytic way. Let me say a couple of things about the...
DOBBS: I'm going to ask you to do that very quickly because we're going -- what I would like to do -- as a matter of fact, in fairness to Dr. Mann, I would like to ask you both to come back and we can have a discussion about those issues if that would work well for you.
HIRA: I'd be happy to.
DOBBS: Professor, I appreciate you being with us here this evening and we'll talk with Dr. Mann and see if we can organize the three of us in the same room. Thank you.
HIRA: I look forward to that.
DOBBS: Turning now to Wall Street, the market had a losing session, the Dow and the S&P down for a fifth straight day. The Dow down 43 points, the NASDAQ down two as was the S&P, almost. Christine Romans is here now and has the market for us.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's the longest losing streak for the Dow and the S&P now in more than a year. And, Lou, the catalyst today was a consumer confidence number that was the worst in four months. The conference board said consumers are disenchanted with the labor market. The NASDAQ is now flat for the year and many of the widely held tech stocks, Lou, they are in full blown correction. Lucent has retreated 20 percent from the year's high. Cisco down 21 percent. Intel and Hewlett-Packard down by 15 percent each. Also major losses for the housing finance giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae stocks.
Fed chief Alan Greenspan warned their unchecked growth could threaten the financial system. He worries that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stand behind almost $4 trillion of mortgages and have grown so big that if either got into trouble the government would have no choice but to bail it out. Fannie Mae said its delinquency rate is only .6 of 1 percent. It provided stability in the market. Freddie Mac said limiting debt issuance would just raise home mortgage costs -- Lou.
DOBBS: Both of those statements are impressionably true but what is not being discussed here, is as critics of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, for all the good they have done and do in this country, that is really the liability of the federal government.
ROMANS: Absolutely, these are sort of a hybrid kind of entity. They are chartered by Congress but they are held by shareholders. They are a public company. There's a perception, Greenspan says, that maybe the government has more responsibility there than it really does and that just benefits Freddie and Fanny.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you.
On this broadcast, with great frequency we beg for corporate leaders to show leadership in this country. Commitment to their stakeholders, to show imagination and above all integrity. Tonight we want to compliment IBM for an act that represents all of those values. IBM has decided to change its stock options plan for its top 300 executives.
Under the new IBM plan, those options would be exercised 10 percent higher than the market price on the day issued. The initiative is a brilliant way to align executive compensation with shareholders' interest. It puts shareholders interest above executive compensation. Tonight I just wanted to say to IBM, congratulations on that move. Now, about that outsourcing -- well, we'll take that up another night. Let's take a look at some more of your thoughts on outsourcing and exporting America.
Jim Mumley of Alburg, Vermont. "It would make better sense to elect a few hundred politicians who will fight for good-paying American jobs than to retrain thousands of workers for lower-paying jobs."
James Roberts of Naperville, Illinois. "Thank you for bringing these important issues to the forefront. Trade for the United States should mean helping other countries raise the standard of living but it is not fair trade when our standards are forced down."
And Paul Jeans of West Palm Beach, Florida. "Thanks for revealing the mystery of this jobless recovery. There is no such thing. The job market is booming in this recovery but not in the United States."
And Pat Frankinburger (ph) of LaPorte, Indiana. "I think it is obscene that American industries are outsourcing jobs to lower cost and increase profits. When I consider the millions of dollars in salaries that top executives are paid, they can take a 50 percent pay cut and still make hundreds of times the salaries of the average Joe and Jill that they force into unemployment.
On "Broken Borders" Charles of Washington, D.C. "Lou, do the math. If we allow illegal aliens become legal and we keep sending jobs overseas, soon there will be no middle class."
And Joe Marchi of Pennsylvania. If NAFTA is working for both Mexico and the United States then why do Mexican workers come north while U.S. factories go south?"
I have to tell you, Joe, that is a darn good question. We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com. Coming up next, new photos tonight from the surface of Mars. They have NASA scientists very excited. We'll tell you why and we'll show you those pictures. I suspect you're going to get excited, too.
Updating quickly the list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting America. The companies sending those jobs overseas. AMDA Networks, AO Smith, Caterpillar, Celestica, Frito Lay, Goodyear Tire and Rubber, Kellogg's, Kemet, Pepsico, and Sola Optical USA.
For that complete list log on to CNN.com/lou. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of tonight's poll. 18 percent of you support a constitution amendment to ban gay marriage. 82 percent do not. Finally tonight, NASA scientists leading the Mars exploration have photos of what they call the most exciting discovery to date of the Red Planet. The scientists are studying a rock many believe could hold proof that there was once water on Mars. Much speculated about, water. The Mars rover Opportunity located this rock. They named it El Capitan. It's been making its way towards the site for several days and now there is a heated debate among those scientists as to just what this rock is all about but they all agree on one thing. This finding is very exciting and they can't wait to find out more and that is what this mission is all about. Good job, NASA.
And that's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow we had been hoping to talk with legendary investor Warren Buffett, but he isn't feeling well. I talked to him this afternoon, and he's a little throaty, to put it mildly. So we'll have him join us at some point in the future. And we extend our wishes for a very speedy recovery, Warren.
We will be talking with Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe about the race for the White House. And face-off, "Exporting America." Adam Kolawa, CEO of a software company, says outsourcing isn't the enemy. Congressman Dan Burton of Indiana says, oh, yes, it is. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER" is next.
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