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Lou Dobbs Tonight
U.S. Vows Overwhelming Response In Fallujah Today; U.S. Construction Firms Outsource Jobs Overseas; Interview With Robert Bonner
Aired April 01, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, GUEST HOST: Tonight: more violence in Iraq. Three soldiers are wounded. The U.S. military vows an overwhelming response after the deaths of four American civilians in Fallujah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will reestablish control of that city and we will pacify that city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: U.S. contractors in Iraq say they will not be deterred, but a major trade show in Baghdad is canceled. We will talk with a CEO of a U.S. company that plans to send dozens of Americans to work in Iraq.
Overseas outsourcing is not only about computer programming and call centers, it's also about the export of American construction jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shouldn't be rewarding companies that are getting tax cuts for exporting jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Some American companies are fighting back against the competition from cheap overseas labor market. We will have a special report.
And the head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Robert Bonner, says our immigration system is broken. Robert Bonner will be my guest tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Thursday, April 1. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs for an hour of news, debate and opinion, John King.
KING: Good evening. "Their deaths will not go unpunished." With those words, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, today vowed to hunt down the insurgents who killed and mutilated four American contractors in Fallujah. But today the violence continued.
One day after the gruesome attack in Fallujah and the deaths of five American soldiers, three Americans troops were wounded in a new attack in the same area. Insurgents blew up a roadside bomb near a U.S. convoy. The troops left a Humvee behind. It was later set on fire and looted by a crowd of Iraqis. U.S. officials in Baghdad promised the attacks would not discourage coalition forces, and they vowed to hunt down those responsible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: It is up to the people, the small number of people in Fallujah, to determine if they want to do it with a fight or without a fight. But the determination and the resolve of the coalition forces to achieve that objective should not be for a moment misinterpreted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Civilian administrator Paul Bremer rejected any suggestion that the violence in Fallujah represented the views of the majority of Iraqis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVIL ADMINISTRATOR: The acts we have seen were despicable and inexcusable. They violate the tenets of all religions, including Islam, as well as the foundations of civilized society. Their deaths will not go unpunished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Insurgents also continued their attacks in Baghdad today, targeting a convoy of fuel trucks. One bomb missed a convoy but hit a civilian vehicle, wounding the driver. As U.S. troops prepared to search the area with a robot, insurgents exploded a second bomb. The blast hit the middle of the convoy, shattering windshields with shrapnel. One of the tanker drivers was wounded in the head and face. It's not clear if he was an Iraqi or a civilian contractor from another country.
U.S. Marines today took up positions on the edge of Fallujah, but they did not enter the city. That city is hostile territory for coalition forces, and with a population of more than 300,000, it's roughly the size of Pittsburgh. Last week, the Marines took over responsibility for security in Fallujah from the Army.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has more -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And John, in the next couple of days, those Marines will begin executing a new strategy. Up to now, the idea had been to keep U.S. forces outside Fallujah and let Iraqi security and civil defense forces police try to handle the situation in the city, with the U.S. military coming to their aid, if needed. Now the U.S. is going to essentially try to retake the city, sending the Marines in in the next couple of days to question local officials, to hunt for the insurgents and anti-U.S. forces that are in this so-called "Sunni triangle" area near Fallujah, west of Baghdad. And they'll also be trying to round up some of the people who we see on these videotapes cheering the mutilation of those American -- the bodies of those American contractors, with the idea that they may have information that will lead them to the insurgents. At the same time, though, the U.S. Marines will be trying to win the hearts and minds of some of the residents by performing good works, as well -- more money for schools and health clinics, trying to live up to the motto of the Marine 1st Division, which is "No better friend, no worse enemy" -- John.
KING: No better friend, Jamie -- in the Pentagon, what are the discussions about the mood in Iraq? Obviously, when you see the celebration at the mutilation of these killed contractors, it must give great pause to the Pentagon that after all this time, they still face such fervent opposition from the Iraqi people.
MCINTYRE: Well, they realize a couple of things. One is they say while the actual four deaths is militarily insignificant, they realize that it's very significant in the message it sends, especially the way the bodies were desecrated. They're also really concerned about the fact that there were large numbers of people in the street who were celebrating on this. And they really feel they have to get a handle on that. And they also feel that they can't cut and run. They can't pull back or pull into some sort of bunker mentality. They need to engage it and have a significant military response, but one that's thoughtful and planned out. And that's what they say will be unfolding in the next couple of days.
KING: A time of testing, as they put it at the White House today. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
The four contractors killed in Fallujah worked for Blackwater Security Consulting. The firm also provides security in Iraq for the U.S. administrator, Paul Bremer. Blackwater employs former military personnel, most of them with a special forces background. The company's headquarters is in North Carolina, not far from the huge U.S. Naval base in Norfolk, Virginia.
Private security firms in Iraq are now the third biggest international contributor of forces to the war effort, after the United States and Britain. They employ thousands of former soldiers from Western countries. But many other international contractors also operate in Iraq, providing services from catering to consulting. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Attacks against private contractors are on the rise in Iraq. An estimated 60 civilians of various nationalities have lost their lives. Experts say, as the coalition forces have turned over security patrols to the Iraqi police, the attacks that used to target the military are now directed at civilian contractors and their private security employees.
RICK BARTON, CTR. FOR STRATEGIC AND INTL. STUDIES: There are something like 150 attacks per day of one kind or another. Most of them are intercepted. So there's been some success in reducing the impact of these attacks, but that's a lot of action that we are involved in all over the country.
PILGRIM: Companies train private security forces to work with contractors in Iraq, where the dynamic has changed in recent months. Crispin Hawes has just returned from Fallujah.
CRISPIN HAWES, EURASIA GROUP: When people talk about contractors, in most people's minds, it is construction engineers, construction designers, people working -- oil engineers. I've heard estimates of up to 4,000 private-sector security personnel working in Iraq. Now, almost inevitably, these people are more exposed than the people that they tend to be protecting.
PILGRIM: Kellogg, Brown and Root, part of Halliburton, has lost seven people in Iraq, yet a job fair last week in Houston drew scores of people applying for the work. During the recruiter's talk, there was this warning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In terms of a dangerous place, it is a war zone theater.
PILGRIM: Applications were filed, nevertheless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A trade fair was slated for next week in Baghdad for international companies. Six thousand people from 200 firms signed up to attend the conference. That conference was postponed today because of security concerns -- John.
KING: Kitty Pilgrim in New York, thank you.
And in "Grange on Point" tonight: how the U.S. Marines can regain control of Fallujah. As we reported, the military vows Fallujah will be pacified, but it will not come easily. General David Grange joins me now.
General, the task ahead for the Marines there outside of the city -- you see those pictures, just a horrific killing of the Americans and then a horrific scene, so many celebrating -- how do you handle that?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's a tough situation. They have to take control of the city again. You can't have an enclave in Iraq where it's off-limits to the coalition forces or reconstruction workers, the contracts that are trying to rebuild that particular city. You have to have access. So it's a combination of winning the hearts and minds, but it's also drawing a hard line and being tough where you have to be.
KING: You say drawing the hard line and being tough when have you to be, but to win the hearts and minds, I assume you also need a greater Iraqi presence. Is this not proof that they are well behind any reasonable schedule for getting a better trained Iraqi police up and running? GRANGE: Well, I think in the Iraqi police, there's, what, 70,000-plus, I think, police trained now. But certain areas, it's tougher to be a policeman. And so some of the police in this town, I'm sure, are scared to death to do anything. And so the key to having this police force successful is to ensure there's a coalition military back-up, very similar to the international police task force in the Balkans. They always had a military back-up, and that's key for success until they're established, and that can take a long period of time. And so that's necessary, and I think that'll happen now in the days to come.
KING: Help us better understand your point about winning the hearts and minds. That is a key component of nation building. Some don't like the term, but it seems to be appropriate in this case. What do you suggest and what would you do if this was your group you were sending into this city?
GRANGE: Oh, it's very appropriate. Nation building is one of the major parts of this mission. It's to secure the environment and rebuild this nation. And to do that, you have to have access to the infrastructure you're trying to improve and the social structures in that particular town. And so you have to get in there. You have to make contact. You have to identify those people that want to cooperate. There's a good many of the people in Fallujah that want to cooperate. And then you have the hard-core insurgents or those that don't.
These pictures you see of mob scenes, a lot of those people are just in a frenzy of the riot, the mob. But there's some hard-core groups that control that, that motivate people to act that way, and those are the ones you have to either jail or eliminate. At the same time, the ones that you trust, that want to transition to a democratic governance and a nice economy, you have to nurture that. And so have you to use both hands, a hard hand and compassionate hand.
KING: Help us with context, General Grange, in the sense -- we obviously watch and pay attention to horrific episodes like this and incidents like this. Three months from today, the United States and the coalition is supposed to hand over sovereignty to a new Iraqi government. Is this an example to you that they have many problems with that plan? Or do you say -- look at this and say the rest of the country is probably in much better shape?
GRANGE: Well, I think 80 percent of the rest of the country's in much better shape. You just have certain areas that it's very terrible still. And so a lot of effort has to go into that. And even though some type of transition will take place, you still have to have that backdrop of the coalition forces to enforce any violations of this new Iraqi government, whatever they put out there. And so they're going to be there for a while.
What's interesting is on this -- the insurgents know that the transition's taking place, and they're scared of that. And so how do you change that? You attack targets that you have access to. If the military targets are too tough, you go after contractors or you go after your own citizens. And then you manipulate the media the best you can to influence world opinion and others' opinion to maintain resolve.
KING: Private contractors are now a third behind the United States and Great Britain in terms of security forces on the ground in Iraq. Does that concern you? Is that just a factor of the modern world we live in? And as you answer, does it concern you in the context of the exodus of people with a special forces background who are leaving the military because they can get much better pay in the private sector?
GRANGE: Well, I'd say -- I'm looking back at my military time and then since I've been retired, and I think about '95 on, 1995 on, a lot of contract use of logistics and security were used in different places in the world. It actually augments where maybe you would use military in the past and now you use contractors. Contractors is probably a good idea. A lot of these infrastructure projects will not happen unless they are secure, and someone has to do that.
Now, they offer good pay. And so what you have is pay being offered maybe three times as high as the military, and so that's an enticement. The other is a lot of pressure from families. A lot of the military force is married now, and there's a lot of pressure for multiple deployments. So you have here a well-trained person that's getting pressure maybe from home and then pressure from, Hey, this is a great deal to make some more money, I'm going to make the cut. The one thing contractors can never replace, however, in a job offer is that camaraderie, that brotherhood that's established when you serve the U.S. military.
KING: General David Grange, sir, thank you, as always, for your thoughts tonight.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
KING: And that brings us to tonight's poll question. Do you think the United States should hand over control of Iraq on June 30? Yes, no, or too early to tell. Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll bring you the results a bit later in the show.
And coming up: the White House tonight again on the defensive, this time over a national security speech Condoleezza Rice was scheduled to give on September 11, a speech that said nothing about Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda. Also ahead: driving gas prices back down. Democrats grill the energy secretary, but when you are going to feel relief at the pump.
And the head of the Customs and Border Protection says our current immigration system is broken -- his word -- our guest. Still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice will give testimony in public and under oath to the 9/11 commission next Thursday. The commission wants to find out more about the administration's counterterrorism policy in the eight months before the September 11 attacks. And today there was fresh evidence for the critics who say the Bush White House paid too little attention to the terror threat because it was more interested in issues like Iraq and missile defense. White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice will go before the whole 9/11 commission a week from today, on Thursday, the 8th. We are told that she is going to answer questions for about 90 minutes or so. As you know, this comes after tremendous pressure and a reversal from the White House to allow her to testify publicly. But Administration officials, Bush aides, are anxious and eager that she give the White House position that this president was focused on the emerging threats from al Qaeda previously to 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN HUGHES, PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I'm pleased she's going to testify. I think it's important that she be able to present the facts to the American people because I think, frankly, last week they got a rather distorted view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: That was White House adviser, long-time adviser Karen Hughes. Now, this comes on a day, of course, when the White House is rather sensitive. There are excerpts from a speech that Condoleezza Rice was supposed to deliver on September 11 that she never did -- these excerpts that were leaked to the press. It was a broad policy speech that focused on national security. The main emphasis here was to coordinate efforts to protect the homeland from weapons of mass destruction, most notably by strengthening the missile defense system. Now, it does not mention Osama bin Laden. It does not mention or al Qaeda. But White House officials insisting today that this does not mean it wasn't a top priority for the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This administration doesn't measure commitment based on one speech or one conference call or one meeting. We look at the sum total of the strong actions that we take.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And bush administration officials say when you look at the actions that this administration has taken, that it was the first foreign policy directive from the White House to eliminate al Qaeda. But critics also say if you look at press briefings, if you look at policy speeches by White House officials leading up to September 11, that it is fairly consistent that they focused on strengthening the missile defense system -- John.
KING: And Suzanne, you mentioned excerpts that from speech being leaked to the press. Some Democrats saying today the White House should release the entire text of that speech. What's the White House response? MALVEAUX: The White House is not willing to do that. We have asked numerous occasions whether or not it would be able to provide fuller context. They say that they only believe that this is going to make the story go even further, that it is justifying some of these accusations. They say if you look at the big picture, not just a speech but the actions from this administration, they believe it shows that the president was very forceful in going after al Qaeda previously to September 11.
KING: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thank you very much.
And recent opinion polls show the president gaining a lead over Democrat Senator John Kerry nationally and in many of the key battleground states. President Bush's top political advisers say those numbers are not -- they say not -- related to the negative ads the Bush campaign has started running against Senator Kerry. The Bush team suggests something else is behind the shift.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins me now. And Bill, what is the White House take on this apparent turnaround?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the White House take says, It isn't our ads. Most of the ads that they've been running in the battleground states, they say, have been positive. The positive ads ran first. The critical ads against Senator Kerry have only been running for a week or so. So they said it has to be something else, and they're saying it is the "earned media," which is the buzzword in campaigns for the news media.
In fact, there's been a lot of critical information out there about Senator Kerry, some of it from President Bush. He went to Florida and he said about John Kerry he's an experienced senator. He's been in Washington long enough to take both sides on just about every issue. And one of the key operatives in the Bush-Cheney campaign said, We have an extensive echo chamber of volunteers and local supporters who will help us get our message out all across the media. So the idea is it's not just those ads, it's also the campaign itself and the reporting of that campaign.
KING: What about the question of whether Senator Kerry might be contributing to this comeback, if you will, movement up in the polls by President Bush by being less visible?
SCHNEIDER: That's exactly an argument that I think is very reasonable because for weeks during the Democratic primary campaign, he came out every Tuesday night looking like a big winner. He was a war hero. People didn't have a clear idea of what he stood for, except for the fact he was a Vietnam war hero who kept winning primaries week after week. Suddenly, that stopped. And where did he go? Well, the Bush media, the Bush speeches, the president's agenda came in to fill that void, and John Kerry, who doesn't have a lot of money to spend, not nearly as much as the Bush campaign -- he has allies, but his campaign doesn't have a lot of money -- didn't seem to be anywhere really being able to respond to those news reports.
KING: Is that a traditional dynamic, that Senator Kerry gets favorable press moves up in the polls when he's winning the Democratic primaries, he's just a Democratic candidate, and then he is the nominee. Do people switch lenses, if you will, and look at the nominee more critically?
SCHNEIDER: Of course. He changes character. He becomes the nominee instantly. And for the first time, people say he's not just the alternative to Howard Dean or John Edwards. Suddenly, he becomes, as of Super Tuesday, the alternative to George W. Bush. And so Bush enters the picture and he mobilizes what is really an army of his own supporters. And that's what the campaign has been doing very effectively -- not just against John Kerry, I should add, but against Dick Clarke. I mean, that issue also doesn't seem to have done nearly as much damage to the president as you might have thought because the message got out to their supporters to support President Bush against Dick Clarke.
KING: Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
And coming up next: The Price of gas spark as political fire as Americans break the bank to fill their tank. And a closer look at the economic agendas of President Bush and John Kerry. We'll tell you what those two plans have in store for you when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The White House is under pressure tonight to take steps to drive gas prices back down. Democrats are calling on the administration to temporarily stop filling the nation's emergency oil reserves. Republicans, not surprisingly, have a different solution to the problem. Lisa Sylvester has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gas prices have shot up around the country, averaging $1.76 per gallon nationwide. Prices could move even higher, now that OPEC has started cutting production by one million barrels per day. Democrats want the administration to pressure OPEC.
REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The American consumer is being tipped upside down by OPEC, with money being shaken out of their pockets every day at the gas pump. And it's going to have a profound impact on the American economy.
SYLVESTER: Energy secretary Spencer Abraham says the president has been in talks with the leaders of the OPEC countries. But the White House will continue to add to the strategic petroleum reserve, the nation's emergency crude oil stockpile. Democrats want that excess oil to flow to the marketplace to lower prices.
SPENCER ABRAHAM, ENERGY SECRETARY: If there were a significant supply disruption in the world, if suddenly something happened somewhere, the American people do not need to be put in a position where we aren't fully prepared to deal with it.
SYLVESTER: Senate Republicans, siding with Abraham, argue consumers won't see much of a difference even if the federal government stopped filling the reserve.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: President Clinton ordered the sale of 30 million barrels of oil from SPR, and then when that oil hit the market, why, our gas prices dropped by a total of one penny.
SYLVESTER: Republicans also see an opportunity here. With gas prices rising, they say now is the time to pass the energy bill that has stalled in the Senate and to renew efforts to drill in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Last November, it looked like the energy bill was a slam-dunk for Republicans, but it got held up by two votes in the Senate. Democrats have been leading a filibuster since then, opposing the bill because of the cost of $31 billion and because it offers generous provisions to the gas and oil industry -- John.
KING: Lisa, is there a definitive cause and effect, if you will -- OPEC cuts production and prices go up?
SYLVESTER: Not necessarily the case and that's because you a few cheaters out there, that OPEC, as an organization, might set a certain target level, but the individual countries, if the price is right, they may be willing to sell a few more barrels of oil. So that's something we're going to have to see -- John.
KING: Watch the administration pressure on those countries. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
A federal judge has ordered seven government agencies to release more documents related to an energy task force headed by Vice President Dick Cheney. Judicial Watch and the Sierra Club sued in 2001 to find out just who participated in that task force. The two groups accused Cheney of drafting energy policy after consulting friends in the industry. The administration maintains that only government employees were members of that task force.
And coming up: fixing the economy. President Bush and Senator Kerry each say they have a plan. We'll look at each of those plans and how they would affect average Americans. Then "Exporting America" in a very unexpected way. We'll have a special report on the latest industry to turn to outsourcing and an American company fighting an overwhelming trend and finding a way into a huge consumer market.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here again from Washington with more news, debate and opinion, John King.
KING: President Bush and Senator Kerry offer voters very different views of our economy. Senator Kerry unveiled his economic plan last week, saying it would create 10 million new jobs and curb outsourcing. The Bush-Cheney campaign blasted that plan, saying it translates into a huge tax increase for Americans. Louise Schiavone takes a look at the competing economic proposals. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Determined to shake his party's anti-business reputation, Democrat John Kerry is casting himself as a corporate champion.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can and we should reduce the corporate tax rates by 5 percent to improve the competitiveness and narrow the difference between corporate tax rates here and overseas.
SCHIAVONE: Kerry hopes to intrigue the business world with a proposal to interrupt (ph) job outsourcing by giving American businesses tax incentives to add jobs at home.
NORM ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: There will be plenty of anti-business rhetoric in his campaign, plenty of populist rhetoric, and a lot about Benedict Arnold companies and us versus them. But if you, as a Democrat, push that too far, you may raise some questions about whether you can actually keep our capitalist economy going.
SCHIAVONE: But as Kerry unfurls his economic plans, President Bush has been out telling campaign audiences that things are already getting better, thanks to him.
GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Manufacturing activity is up. The unemployment rate today is lower than the average rate in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. We've overcome a lot.
SCHIAVONE: Among the president's proposals for business, extended dividend tax relief, increase small business tax expensing and eliminating frivolous or junk lawsuits. Both candidates want to help small businesses provide worker health coverage, and they're almost identical on middle class tax relief, extending the $1,000-per- child tax credit, eliminating the so-called "marriage penalty" and expanding the bottom 10 percent bracket, which relieves tax pressures on all wage earners. Democrats say the economy is weak, and it's the president's fault.
ANNOUNCER: George Bush, he supported tax breaks for exporting jobs and he raided Social Security to pay for a tax cut for millionaires.
SCHIAVONE: Republicans, meanwhile, are not about to yield to Democrats on tax breaks.
ANNOUNCER: Kerry voted to increase taxes on Social Security benefits. And he voted against giving small businesses tax credits to buy healthcare for employees.
SCHIAVONE: Households earning 200,000 or more would pay higher taxes under Kerry, but analysts note they will probably vote Republican anyway. (on camera): The Democratic contender has also made fiscal responsibility a big issue in his campaign, but with a ballooning federal deficit analysts question whether the nation can afford either the Kerry or Bush plan. Louise Schiavone for CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: The Kerry campaign today unveiled a new ad criticizing the Bush administration's stand that outsourcing, quote, "makes economic sense for American companies."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: While jobs are leaving our country in record numbers, George Bush says sending jobs overseas makes sense for America. His top economic advisers say moving American jobs to low-cost countries is a plus for the U.S.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The ad plays on what has become a major issue in the campaign. It will run beginning tomorrow in 17 battleground states. We have reported extensively on this program on exporting of manufacturing and service jobs to cheaper foreign labor markets. Tonight in our special report "Exporting America" yet another industry has found a way to export American jobs to foreign markets. As improbable as it may sound, even the construction business is turning to outsourcing. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the Salt Lake City Public Library partially built outside the U.S. using taxpayer dollars. The walls were precast in Mexico and shipped to Salt Lake City.
ED MAYNE, PRSE. UTAH AFL-CIO: I think that if people would have understood or knew about that prior to the letting of the bid, this would have been nipped in the bud right then and there by practical people saying, whoa, whoah hold on, what are we doing to our own community.
TUCKER: But there were no protests. When the trade union learned what was going on it was too late.
The situation is not as unique as it may sound. Here in the Astoria section of New York City a power plant is being planned for this site. It will rest here, it but won't be built here. It will be built in Singapore and then shipped here.
New York State is helping finance that with $400 million in liberty bonds. Those are low-cost taxes exempt bonds created to revitalize the city following the attacks of 9/11. In effect, the state is rewarding the offshoring of jobs.
ED SULLIVAN, PRES. BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL: We shouldn't be rewarding companies that are getting tax cuts for exporting jobs. We ought to get tax cuts for exporting products.
TUCKER: The Boilermakers Union worked for three years to support the project believing that it would create nearly a thousand jobs only to recently learn the work is going offshore. The union feels betrayed.
JERRY CONNOLLY, BOILERMAKER UNION: We are not looking to stop the project, what we're looking to do is to have local people have access to these jobs and the local community to have access to the money that is generated by these construction workers working in the area.
TUCKER: The New York State Liberty Development Corporation says union workers will be involved in the project. It notes that its completion is crucial to addressing New York City's power demands. Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: The United States is currently running a record trade imbalance with China. Well over $100 billion a year. That, of course, means far more Chinese imports are coming into this country than American goods go there. But as Peter Viles reports, one American company has found a way to break into the massive Chinese market.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This Connecticut factory is a strange place, because it's new and new factories are rare in America these days, but more unusual, some of what is made here seconds ported to China. And not to Chinese factories, but to Chinese consumers.
NICHOLAS NIEJELOW, PRES, CEO HABILIS: I was flabbergasted when I got the call from them. What is most interesting the fact that the Chinese perception of things made in the United States is of extremely high value. They place a very high value on American made goods.
This is where we inspect the molds.
VILES: Nick Niejelow invented a new process for making polycarbonate plastic lenses for eyeglasses. His new Resolution branded lenses are inexpensive, shatter proof, and compared to other plastic lenses, they provide much clearer vision. Niejelow's company Habilis, has 130 employees, is turning out 20,000 pairs of lenses a day, and recently got a huge order from China.
ALAN TONELSON, U.S. BUSINESS & INDUSTRY COUNCIL: It's very much the exception to the rule. The Chinese consumer remains a very elusive target for American companies seeking to export from the United States to china and is likely to remain that way for decades to come.
VILES: The lenses are distributed by Optima, a subsidiary of a Japanese company Asahi, but they are made in America and Neijelow considers them an American innovation.
NIEJELOW: I owe something to this country, and I think that if we have the ability to make something from a technological advancement where we can incorporate people to live here and work here, I will do my utmost.
VILES: In fact, business is so good, Niejelow is building a second factory, also in Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: It's a very unusual product. It is new, it is high demand for Russia to Brazil, and it is patented so the only place in the world where it is made right now, John, is right here in America.
KING: Pete, why so elusive? Why is it so hard for American companies to crack the market in China?
VILES: Two reasons, one, no question, the Chinese government makes it difficult to sell into China. That's why you see companies like Chrysler making Jeeps in Beijing. But the second reason, the bigger reason, it's not a mature consumer market. Most Chinese consumers really aren't fit to be consumers of American goods. They don't make enough money. They can't afford American goods -- John.
KING: Pete Vials, with one success story tonight. Thank you Pete.
And still ahead tonight, new concerns for American contractors in Iraq after yesterday's deadly attacks. We'll talk with the CEO of Stanley Consultants, an engineering firm that is helping rebuild Iraq.
And Robert Bonner, commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection says the immigration system is broken. He says the president's proposed guest worker program would help repair it. Mr. Bonner will be our guest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The brutal killings of four American contractors in Fallujah have raised new concerns about the safety of U.S. civilians in Iraq. Stanley Consultants have a small number of staff already in Iraq and is planning to send a dozen or so more. I am joined by the CEO of Stanley Consultants, Gregs Thomopulos. Sir, thank you for joining us tonight. I have to ask you, you have staff already in Iraq, family members must be enormously concerned after the events of recent days?
GREGS THOMOPULOS, PRES./CEO, STANLEY CONSULTANTS: That's very correct. We are also very concerned.
KING: Tell me about the security situation. Do you have military protection? Private protection? A combination?
THOMOPULOS: Project has been contracted with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers so we've always had military protection for our staff. KING: Military protection. So your staff goes nowhere in Iraq without military protection with them, that's correct?
THOMOPULOS: That is correct, sir.
KING: When you see an event like this, the killings of U.S. contractors, the bodies hung on a bridge, and people celebrating around them, do you still plan to send more of your employees into Iraq. Do you need fresh assurances from the military or you believe this situation is overall relatively secure?
THOMOPULOS: Well, it's very difficult to say what the overall situation would be in the future, but we've always been satisfied with the military escort and the military protection and believe that our people are in a safe environment and carrying out their duties. However, that said and done, there is no guarantee that they will not be caught in a crossfire. And that, of course, is a source of concern for all U.S. companies that have staff in Iraq.
KING: Where, sir, is your staff operating? Where in the country and what are they doing?
THOMOPULOS: We are based in Baghdad. Basically in the Green Zone. We are helping with the coalition provision authority in the master planning of the reconstruction program.
KING: Do you receive, because you have civilians on the ground, do you receive any briefings from the military on a constant basis? Updates on security, warnings about security, messages to send to your people on the ground about whether to move around the country. Is it a constant relationship like that?
THOMOPULOS: Well, I think our people are pretty aware of what's -- what the dangers are, and obviously they don't go anywhere without military escorts and they were briefed before going in there in terms of what to expect and the conditions in the country. We are there to do a job as an engineering company. We have always had our people volunteer to go to many, many places in the world that have been involved in post-war conflict. And the staff that we sent, the last -- in September all volunteered for this assignment.
KING: Gregs Thomopulos, CEO of Stanley Consultants. Sir, we thank you for your time tonight. We hope for the good safety of your people in Iraq. Thank you, sir.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll question. "Do you think the United States should hand over control of Iraq as scheduled on June 30? Yes, no, or too early to tell." Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll bring you the results a bit later in the show.
When we return, we'll be joined by Robert Bonner, commissioner for the U.S. Customs and Border Protection. He says President Bush's temporary worker plan will help us gain control of our broken borders.
Also ahead tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I was, like, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I was so happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The story of one soldier's surprise for his son. We'll continue in a moment. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: My next guest says this country's current immigration system is broken. He testified in favor of President Bush's temporary worker program on Capitol Hill today saying the plan will make his job easier. Joining me now is Robert Bonner, the head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
You say the new guest worker program would make it easier, others say why bring more immigrants into this country and essentially allow those in this country illegally now to come forward and get temporary recognition. Why reward them, if you will.
ROBERT BONNER, COMMISSIONER, U.S CUSTOMS & BORDER PROTECTION: First of all, the immigration system isn't working. Hasn't worked for years. And one of the things that the president's temporary worker program will accomplish is it will allow legal workers to legally migrate into this country. Right now we're faced with nearly a million apprehensions by the border patrol a year. When you have that many, I'm concerned about homeland security. I'm concerned about our ability to find the few terrorists or criminals that may be hidden in this flood of illegal migration. So it's important that we have the temporary worker program because it's going to give us greater control over our border.
KING: But you on Capitol Hill today, Senator Feinstein among those asking the question, would it not serve as a magnet? Would there not a flood of people trying to come across the border if you had this new temporary program?
BONNER: Well, I don't think so. First of all, there's no benefit from anybody illegally entering our country right now. We're going to continue and are continuing to vigorously enforce the laws of the United States and to arrest anybody that is illegally coming across our border. In fact...
(CROSSTALK)
BONNER: The president himself has said that nobody that's coming across the border now is going to get any benefit from the temporary worker programs. We have to understand that. The reality is, though, if you regularize this, in other words, if we have a sane realistic immigration system we're going to be able to reduce the flood of illegal migrants that are coming at U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the Border Patrol and we're going to be able to better control our border and, therefore, we will have much better prospects for being able to identify and intercept potential terrorists that maybe coming across our border. So it's always been important that we control our borders but since 9/11 it's essential that we do so.
KING: Whether you think this is a good idea or bad idea let's set that aside for a minute. We're in an election year. The president wants this done, many don't see him leaning into it as much as supporters think they need. The president actively saying do this, do this now. What's the political environment?
BONNER: First of all, I think the president has laid out the essential principles of the temporary worker program. He asked Congress to get behind this. And enact this legislation. And it's up to the Congress right now to take the issue, figure out the details of it, and to put together legislation that will make the temporary worker program a reality. And it's very important that they do so. It's important for the security of our homeland so we get better control of our borders. It's important that we know who is here in our country.
Right now we have millions of people here. We don't have any idea, really, who they are. And there are a few of them that may have intentions to do harm to our country. So this is going to give us a much better control and security in terms of the homeland, at our borders, and in the interior of our country. We need to get on with this. I'm hopeful, and I know the president is hopeful, that this the Congress will take his message seriously and attend to the business of putting together some legislation that will make the temporary worker program a reality.
KING: You mention you want to worry about potential terrorists or terrorists trying to get into the country. Help me understand, when you have an event like the tragic train bombing in Madrid. And the Spanish government saying, at least most of the suspects appear to be Moroccans. Do you study that, learn that lesson, watch the transit, are there realtime changes in how do you business here.
BONNER: You bet. First of all, the best way to prevent a terrorist attack happening in the United States is to prevent the terrorists from entering this country in the first instance. We're doing a very good job at Customs and Border Protection of identifying potential terrorists and denying them entry into the United States.
But we're concerned, I mean we're doing this at our official ports of entry, our international airports, our land border ports of entry, but we're concerned that al Qaeda and al Qaeda associated terrorist organizations may attempt to penetrate our border, for example, our southwest border with Mexico, and so we need to reduce the number of people that are illegally crossing that border to increase their ability to identify those few terrorists or criminals or drug smugglers that we want to make sure that we capture, arrest and prosecute and make sure that they are not arming our country.
But we've got to get this border more under control than it is now. And the president's proposal will help us do this. That's why one of the reasons that I would urge the Congress to enact the president's proposal.
KING: Robert Bonner, we thank you for your thoughts tonight, sir.
Turning now to the market. Stocks up slightly on Wall Street today. The Dow gained nearly 16. Nasdaq up more than 20 and the S&P rose nearly 6 points. Christine Romans joins us now from New York. And Christine, some big changes for the Dow Jones Industrial average today.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: John, the Dow Industrials will, in fact, be only about one-third industrial and more focused on finance and health. Three stocks will be dumped from the Dow, Kodak with a market cap of only $7 billion, it's not even considered a large cap stock anymore. Many say Kodak grasped digital photography just much too late. Ma Bell is out, replaced by one of her baby bells. And the lone paper company on the Dow lost the slot it has held since 1956.
In baby bell, Verizon, another baby bell, SBC communications already in there. Insurance giant AIG and Pfizer, it's the country's biggest drugmaker. These changes, John, take effect April 8.
KING: Christine, you keep us up to date on executive pay and tonight you have a peek into our boss's checks.
ROMANS: I do, John, we thought it was only fair. Time Warner CEO Richard Parsons earned a million and a half dollar salary last year, and an $8 million cash bonus. The top five Time Warner executives shared a payout last year of just over $31 million.
John, at the same time Time Warner shares rose 37 percent last year, but they are still down 66 percent since Time Warner merged with AOL in December of 2000.
KING: I have to go back and check my bonus. Christine.
Tomorrow, we'll find out if any jobs were created in March. What is the expectation on Wall Street.
ROMANS: Wall Street expects 100,000, 125,000 jobs created, but remember that's what Wall Street, the so-called experts, expected in February and they only got 21,000.
Also, John, tonight word from Gateway, more layoffs. It's closing 188 Gateway retail stores, laying off 2,500 workers. So the layoffs still continue. High hopes for tomorrow's report. But we'll have to wait and see.
KING: We'll wait and see. And we'll see you tomorrow. Christine Romans, thank you very much.
And now for a look at some of your thoughts. Many of you wrote about our "Faceoff" last night, debating whether religious symbols should be banned from public schools.
Steve of Cary, North Carolina, "How can someone allow religious insignia in schools and at the same time refuse prayer or saying under god in the Pledge of Allegiance." Mary of Racine, Wisconsin, "in this country we have the freedom of religion, not from religion."
On exporting America, Jack McAllister of Dresden, New York writes, "why is it illegal to sell a store to sell a widget produced in Ohio with labor paid below minimum wages, but legal if a foreign company produced the same widget with labor paid below the minimum wage standards that U.S. companies are bound to by law."
Steve Huvland of San Francisco, "exporting jobs in a time of unemployment is like drilling holes in the bottom of a boat during a storm."
We love hearing from you as always. E-mail us at CNN -- loudobbs@cnn.com.
A reminder now to check our Web site for the complete list of companies we confirmed to be Exporting America, CNN.com/lou. And still to come, a surprise homecoming. Someone this 17-year-old didn't expect to see at school was his dad. We'll have that story and it's a great one when we continue in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Now the result of tonight's poll question. 54 percent of you believed the United States should hand over control of Iraq on June 30. 28 percent do not. And 18 percent, too early to tell.
And finally tonight, what was just another day of first grade for Andrew Gapinski became a day he will never forget when a special visitor surprised his class. Scott Johnson of CNN affiliate WJXT reports from Jacksonville, Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LT. COL. MATT GAPINSKI, U.S. ARMY: Andrew doesn't know that I'm coming home today.
SCOTT JOHNSON, WJXT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While 7-year-old Andrew Gapinski sang patriotic songs in his class, little did he know his own patriot was soon showing up.
M. GAPINSKI: He knows that I'm coming home soon, probably this week, but he doesn't know that today was the day.
ANDREW GAPINSKI, FATHER SURPRISED HIM AT SCHOOL: We were singing songs and then my dad came through the back door.
JOHNSON: And Andrew's expression said it all.
M. GAPINSKI: Got a kiss for daddy?
JOHNSON: He, along with his little sister and brother, were seeing Lieutenant Colonel Matt Gapinski for the first time in months. He's back from Iraq permanently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy's home. It's all over.
M. GAPINSKI: Oh, wow, did you guys make that?
JOHNSON: The schools is covered with signs thanking this soldier...
A. GAPINSKI: It was like -- I was like going to cry because I was so happy.
JOHNSON: And while Andrew holds back the tears...
M. GAPINSKI: Can you say da, da, da?
JOHNSON: His 11-month-old brother is meeting his dad for only the second time.
M. GAPINSKI: He probably doesn't remember me, so I need to get reacquainted with him.
JOHNSON: Now there will finally be time for catching up.
A. GAPINSKI: I was just so excited.
JOHNSON: Could you believe it?
A. GAPINSKI: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Priceless smile. Happy tears. Welcome home, Colonel.
That's our show tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, Treasury Secretary John Snow joins us on the economy, trade and the exporting of America. And former presidential adviser David Gergen will be my guest. From all of us here, good night from Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 1, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, GUEST HOST: Tonight: more violence in Iraq. Three soldiers are wounded. The U.S. military vows an overwhelming response after the deaths of four American civilians in Fallujah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will reestablish control of that city and we will pacify that city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: U.S. contractors in Iraq say they will not be deterred, but a major trade show in Baghdad is canceled. We will talk with a CEO of a U.S. company that plans to send dozens of Americans to work in Iraq.
Overseas outsourcing is not only about computer programming and call centers, it's also about the export of American construction jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shouldn't be rewarding companies that are getting tax cuts for exporting jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Some American companies are fighting back against the competition from cheap overseas labor market. We will have a special report.
And the head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Robert Bonner, says our immigration system is broken. Robert Bonner will be my guest tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Thursday, April 1. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs for an hour of news, debate and opinion, John King.
KING: Good evening. "Their deaths will not go unpunished." With those words, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, today vowed to hunt down the insurgents who killed and mutilated four American contractors in Fallujah. But today the violence continued.
One day after the gruesome attack in Fallujah and the deaths of five American soldiers, three Americans troops were wounded in a new attack in the same area. Insurgents blew up a roadside bomb near a U.S. convoy. The troops left a Humvee behind. It was later set on fire and looted by a crowd of Iraqis. U.S. officials in Baghdad promised the attacks would not discourage coalition forces, and they vowed to hunt down those responsible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: It is up to the people, the small number of people in Fallujah, to determine if they want to do it with a fight or without a fight. But the determination and the resolve of the coalition forces to achieve that objective should not be for a moment misinterpreted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Civilian administrator Paul Bremer rejected any suggestion that the violence in Fallujah represented the views of the majority of Iraqis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVIL ADMINISTRATOR: The acts we have seen were despicable and inexcusable. They violate the tenets of all religions, including Islam, as well as the foundations of civilized society. Their deaths will not go unpunished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Insurgents also continued their attacks in Baghdad today, targeting a convoy of fuel trucks. One bomb missed a convoy but hit a civilian vehicle, wounding the driver. As U.S. troops prepared to search the area with a robot, insurgents exploded a second bomb. The blast hit the middle of the convoy, shattering windshields with shrapnel. One of the tanker drivers was wounded in the head and face. It's not clear if he was an Iraqi or a civilian contractor from another country.
U.S. Marines today took up positions on the edge of Fallujah, but they did not enter the city. That city is hostile territory for coalition forces, and with a population of more than 300,000, it's roughly the size of Pittsburgh. Last week, the Marines took over responsibility for security in Fallujah from the Army.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has more -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And John, in the next couple of days, those Marines will begin executing a new strategy. Up to now, the idea had been to keep U.S. forces outside Fallujah and let Iraqi security and civil defense forces police try to handle the situation in the city, with the U.S. military coming to their aid, if needed. Now the U.S. is going to essentially try to retake the city, sending the Marines in in the next couple of days to question local officials, to hunt for the insurgents and anti-U.S. forces that are in this so-called "Sunni triangle" area near Fallujah, west of Baghdad. And they'll also be trying to round up some of the people who we see on these videotapes cheering the mutilation of those American -- the bodies of those American contractors, with the idea that they may have information that will lead them to the insurgents. At the same time, though, the U.S. Marines will be trying to win the hearts and minds of some of the residents by performing good works, as well -- more money for schools and health clinics, trying to live up to the motto of the Marine 1st Division, which is "No better friend, no worse enemy" -- John.
KING: No better friend, Jamie -- in the Pentagon, what are the discussions about the mood in Iraq? Obviously, when you see the celebration at the mutilation of these killed contractors, it must give great pause to the Pentagon that after all this time, they still face such fervent opposition from the Iraqi people.
MCINTYRE: Well, they realize a couple of things. One is they say while the actual four deaths is militarily insignificant, they realize that it's very significant in the message it sends, especially the way the bodies were desecrated. They're also really concerned about the fact that there were large numbers of people in the street who were celebrating on this. And they really feel they have to get a handle on that. And they also feel that they can't cut and run. They can't pull back or pull into some sort of bunker mentality. They need to engage it and have a significant military response, but one that's thoughtful and planned out. And that's what they say will be unfolding in the next couple of days.
KING: A time of testing, as they put it at the White House today. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
The four contractors killed in Fallujah worked for Blackwater Security Consulting. The firm also provides security in Iraq for the U.S. administrator, Paul Bremer. Blackwater employs former military personnel, most of them with a special forces background. The company's headquarters is in North Carolina, not far from the huge U.S. Naval base in Norfolk, Virginia.
Private security firms in Iraq are now the third biggest international contributor of forces to the war effort, after the United States and Britain. They employ thousands of former soldiers from Western countries. But many other international contractors also operate in Iraq, providing services from catering to consulting. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Attacks against private contractors are on the rise in Iraq. An estimated 60 civilians of various nationalities have lost their lives. Experts say, as the coalition forces have turned over security patrols to the Iraqi police, the attacks that used to target the military are now directed at civilian contractors and their private security employees.
RICK BARTON, CTR. FOR STRATEGIC AND INTL. STUDIES: There are something like 150 attacks per day of one kind or another. Most of them are intercepted. So there's been some success in reducing the impact of these attacks, but that's a lot of action that we are involved in all over the country.
PILGRIM: Companies train private security forces to work with contractors in Iraq, where the dynamic has changed in recent months. Crispin Hawes has just returned from Fallujah.
CRISPIN HAWES, EURASIA GROUP: When people talk about contractors, in most people's minds, it is construction engineers, construction designers, people working -- oil engineers. I've heard estimates of up to 4,000 private-sector security personnel working in Iraq. Now, almost inevitably, these people are more exposed than the people that they tend to be protecting.
PILGRIM: Kellogg, Brown and Root, part of Halliburton, has lost seven people in Iraq, yet a job fair last week in Houston drew scores of people applying for the work. During the recruiter's talk, there was this warning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In terms of a dangerous place, it is a war zone theater.
PILGRIM: Applications were filed, nevertheless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A trade fair was slated for next week in Baghdad for international companies. Six thousand people from 200 firms signed up to attend the conference. That conference was postponed today because of security concerns -- John.
KING: Kitty Pilgrim in New York, thank you.
And in "Grange on Point" tonight: how the U.S. Marines can regain control of Fallujah. As we reported, the military vows Fallujah will be pacified, but it will not come easily. General David Grange joins me now.
General, the task ahead for the Marines there outside of the city -- you see those pictures, just a horrific killing of the Americans and then a horrific scene, so many celebrating -- how do you handle that?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's a tough situation. They have to take control of the city again. You can't have an enclave in Iraq where it's off-limits to the coalition forces or reconstruction workers, the contracts that are trying to rebuild that particular city. You have to have access. So it's a combination of winning the hearts and minds, but it's also drawing a hard line and being tough where you have to be.
KING: You say drawing the hard line and being tough when have you to be, but to win the hearts and minds, I assume you also need a greater Iraqi presence. Is this not proof that they are well behind any reasonable schedule for getting a better trained Iraqi police up and running? GRANGE: Well, I think in the Iraqi police, there's, what, 70,000-plus, I think, police trained now. But certain areas, it's tougher to be a policeman. And so some of the police in this town, I'm sure, are scared to death to do anything. And so the key to having this police force successful is to ensure there's a coalition military back-up, very similar to the international police task force in the Balkans. They always had a military back-up, and that's key for success until they're established, and that can take a long period of time. And so that's necessary, and I think that'll happen now in the days to come.
KING: Help us better understand your point about winning the hearts and minds. That is a key component of nation building. Some don't like the term, but it seems to be appropriate in this case. What do you suggest and what would you do if this was your group you were sending into this city?
GRANGE: Oh, it's very appropriate. Nation building is one of the major parts of this mission. It's to secure the environment and rebuild this nation. And to do that, you have to have access to the infrastructure you're trying to improve and the social structures in that particular town. And so you have to get in there. You have to make contact. You have to identify those people that want to cooperate. There's a good many of the people in Fallujah that want to cooperate. And then you have the hard-core insurgents or those that don't.
These pictures you see of mob scenes, a lot of those people are just in a frenzy of the riot, the mob. But there's some hard-core groups that control that, that motivate people to act that way, and those are the ones you have to either jail or eliminate. At the same time, the ones that you trust, that want to transition to a democratic governance and a nice economy, you have to nurture that. And so have you to use both hands, a hard hand and compassionate hand.
KING: Help us with context, General Grange, in the sense -- we obviously watch and pay attention to horrific episodes like this and incidents like this. Three months from today, the United States and the coalition is supposed to hand over sovereignty to a new Iraqi government. Is this an example to you that they have many problems with that plan? Or do you say -- look at this and say the rest of the country is probably in much better shape?
GRANGE: Well, I think 80 percent of the rest of the country's in much better shape. You just have certain areas that it's very terrible still. And so a lot of effort has to go into that. And even though some type of transition will take place, you still have to have that backdrop of the coalition forces to enforce any violations of this new Iraqi government, whatever they put out there. And so they're going to be there for a while.
What's interesting is on this -- the insurgents know that the transition's taking place, and they're scared of that. And so how do you change that? You attack targets that you have access to. If the military targets are too tough, you go after contractors or you go after your own citizens. And then you manipulate the media the best you can to influence world opinion and others' opinion to maintain resolve.
KING: Private contractors are now a third behind the United States and Great Britain in terms of security forces on the ground in Iraq. Does that concern you? Is that just a factor of the modern world we live in? And as you answer, does it concern you in the context of the exodus of people with a special forces background who are leaving the military because they can get much better pay in the private sector?
GRANGE: Well, I'd say -- I'm looking back at my military time and then since I've been retired, and I think about '95 on, 1995 on, a lot of contract use of logistics and security were used in different places in the world. It actually augments where maybe you would use military in the past and now you use contractors. Contractors is probably a good idea. A lot of these infrastructure projects will not happen unless they are secure, and someone has to do that.
Now, they offer good pay. And so what you have is pay being offered maybe three times as high as the military, and so that's an enticement. The other is a lot of pressure from families. A lot of the military force is married now, and there's a lot of pressure for multiple deployments. So you have here a well-trained person that's getting pressure maybe from home and then pressure from, Hey, this is a great deal to make some more money, I'm going to make the cut. The one thing contractors can never replace, however, in a job offer is that camaraderie, that brotherhood that's established when you serve the U.S. military.
KING: General David Grange, sir, thank you, as always, for your thoughts tonight.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
KING: And that brings us to tonight's poll question. Do you think the United States should hand over control of Iraq on June 30? Yes, no, or too early to tell. Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll bring you the results a bit later in the show.
And coming up: the White House tonight again on the defensive, this time over a national security speech Condoleezza Rice was scheduled to give on September 11, a speech that said nothing about Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda. Also ahead: driving gas prices back down. Democrats grill the energy secretary, but when you are going to feel relief at the pump.
And the head of the Customs and Border Protection says our current immigration system is broken -- his word -- our guest. Still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice will give testimony in public and under oath to the 9/11 commission next Thursday. The commission wants to find out more about the administration's counterterrorism policy in the eight months before the September 11 attacks. And today there was fresh evidence for the critics who say the Bush White House paid too little attention to the terror threat because it was more interested in issues like Iraq and missile defense. White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice will go before the whole 9/11 commission a week from today, on Thursday, the 8th. We are told that she is going to answer questions for about 90 minutes or so. As you know, this comes after tremendous pressure and a reversal from the White House to allow her to testify publicly. But Administration officials, Bush aides, are anxious and eager that she give the White House position that this president was focused on the emerging threats from al Qaeda previously to 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN HUGHES, PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I'm pleased she's going to testify. I think it's important that she be able to present the facts to the American people because I think, frankly, last week they got a rather distorted view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: That was White House adviser, long-time adviser Karen Hughes. Now, this comes on a day, of course, when the White House is rather sensitive. There are excerpts from a speech that Condoleezza Rice was supposed to deliver on September 11 that she never did -- these excerpts that were leaked to the press. It was a broad policy speech that focused on national security. The main emphasis here was to coordinate efforts to protect the homeland from weapons of mass destruction, most notably by strengthening the missile defense system. Now, it does not mention Osama bin Laden. It does not mention or al Qaeda. But White House officials insisting today that this does not mean it wasn't a top priority for the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This administration doesn't measure commitment based on one speech or one conference call or one meeting. We look at the sum total of the strong actions that we take.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And bush administration officials say when you look at the actions that this administration has taken, that it was the first foreign policy directive from the White House to eliminate al Qaeda. But critics also say if you look at press briefings, if you look at policy speeches by White House officials leading up to September 11, that it is fairly consistent that they focused on strengthening the missile defense system -- John.
KING: And Suzanne, you mentioned excerpts that from speech being leaked to the press. Some Democrats saying today the White House should release the entire text of that speech. What's the White House response? MALVEAUX: The White House is not willing to do that. We have asked numerous occasions whether or not it would be able to provide fuller context. They say that they only believe that this is going to make the story go even further, that it is justifying some of these accusations. They say if you look at the big picture, not just a speech but the actions from this administration, they believe it shows that the president was very forceful in going after al Qaeda previously to September 11.
KING: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thank you very much.
And recent opinion polls show the president gaining a lead over Democrat Senator John Kerry nationally and in many of the key battleground states. President Bush's top political advisers say those numbers are not -- they say not -- related to the negative ads the Bush campaign has started running against Senator Kerry. The Bush team suggests something else is behind the shift.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins me now. And Bill, what is the White House take on this apparent turnaround?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the White House take says, It isn't our ads. Most of the ads that they've been running in the battleground states, they say, have been positive. The positive ads ran first. The critical ads against Senator Kerry have only been running for a week or so. So they said it has to be something else, and they're saying it is the "earned media," which is the buzzword in campaigns for the news media.
In fact, there's been a lot of critical information out there about Senator Kerry, some of it from President Bush. He went to Florida and he said about John Kerry he's an experienced senator. He's been in Washington long enough to take both sides on just about every issue. And one of the key operatives in the Bush-Cheney campaign said, We have an extensive echo chamber of volunteers and local supporters who will help us get our message out all across the media. So the idea is it's not just those ads, it's also the campaign itself and the reporting of that campaign.
KING: What about the question of whether Senator Kerry might be contributing to this comeback, if you will, movement up in the polls by President Bush by being less visible?
SCHNEIDER: That's exactly an argument that I think is very reasonable because for weeks during the Democratic primary campaign, he came out every Tuesday night looking like a big winner. He was a war hero. People didn't have a clear idea of what he stood for, except for the fact he was a Vietnam war hero who kept winning primaries week after week. Suddenly, that stopped. And where did he go? Well, the Bush media, the Bush speeches, the president's agenda came in to fill that void, and John Kerry, who doesn't have a lot of money to spend, not nearly as much as the Bush campaign -- he has allies, but his campaign doesn't have a lot of money -- didn't seem to be anywhere really being able to respond to those news reports.
KING: Is that a traditional dynamic, that Senator Kerry gets favorable press moves up in the polls when he's winning the Democratic primaries, he's just a Democratic candidate, and then he is the nominee. Do people switch lenses, if you will, and look at the nominee more critically?
SCHNEIDER: Of course. He changes character. He becomes the nominee instantly. And for the first time, people say he's not just the alternative to Howard Dean or John Edwards. Suddenly, he becomes, as of Super Tuesday, the alternative to George W. Bush. And so Bush enters the picture and he mobilizes what is really an army of his own supporters. And that's what the campaign has been doing very effectively -- not just against John Kerry, I should add, but against Dick Clarke. I mean, that issue also doesn't seem to have done nearly as much damage to the president as you might have thought because the message got out to their supporters to support President Bush against Dick Clarke.
KING: Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
And coming up next: The Price of gas spark as political fire as Americans break the bank to fill their tank. And a closer look at the economic agendas of President Bush and John Kerry. We'll tell you what those two plans have in store for you when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The White House is under pressure tonight to take steps to drive gas prices back down. Democrats are calling on the administration to temporarily stop filling the nation's emergency oil reserves. Republicans, not surprisingly, have a different solution to the problem. Lisa Sylvester has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gas prices have shot up around the country, averaging $1.76 per gallon nationwide. Prices could move even higher, now that OPEC has started cutting production by one million barrels per day. Democrats want the administration to pressure OPEC.
REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The American consumer is being tipped upside down by OPEC, with money being shaken out of their pockets every day at the gas pump. And it's going to have a profound impact on the American economy.
SYLVESTER: Energy secretary Spencer Abraham says the president has been in talks with the leaders of the OPEC countries. But the White House will continue to add to the strategic petroleum reserve, the nation's emergency crude oil stockpile. Democrats want that excess oil to flow to the marketplace to lower prices.
SPENCER ABRAHAM, ENERGY SECRETARY: If there were a significant supply disruption in the world, if suddenly something happened somewhere, the American people do not need to be put in a position where we aren't fully prepared to deal with it.
SYLVESTER: Senate Republicans, siding with Abraham, argue consumers won't see much of a difference even if the federal government stopped filling the reserve.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: President Clinton ordered the sale of 30 million barrels of oil from SPR, and then when that oil hit the market, why, our gas prices dropped by a total of one penny.
SYLVESTER: Republicans also see an opportunity here. With gas prices rising, they say now is the time to pass the energy bill that has stalled in the Senate and to renew efforts to drill in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Last November, it looked like the energy bill was a slam-dunk for Republicans, but it got held up by two votes in the Senate. Democrats have been leading a filibuster since then, opposing the bill because of the cost of $31 billion and because it offers generous provisions to the gas and oil industry -- John.
KING: Lisa, is there a definitive cause and effect, if you will -- OPEC cuts production and prices go up?
SYLVESTER: Not necessarily the case and that's because you a few cheaters out there, that OPEC, as an organization, might set a certain target level, but the individual countries, if the price is right, they may be willing to sell a few more barrels of oil. So that's something we're going to have to see -- John.
KING: Watch the administration pressure on those countries. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
A federal judge has ordered seven government agencies to release more documents related to an energy task force headed by Vice President Dick Cheney. Judicial Watch and the Sierra Club sued in 2001 to find out just who participated in that task force. The two groups accused Cheney of drafting energy policy after consulting friends in the industry. The administration maintains that only government employees were members of that task force.
And coming up: fixing the economy. President Bush and Senator Kerry each say they have a plan. We'll look at each of those plans and how they would affect average Americans. Then "Exporting America" in a very unexpected way. We'll have a special report on the latest industry to turn to outsourcing and an American company fighting an overwhelming trend and finding a way into a huge consumer market.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here again from Washington with more news, debate and opinion, John King.
KING: President Bush and Senator Kerry offer voters very different views of our economy. Senator Kerry unveiled his economic plan last week, saying it would create 10 million new jobs and curb outsourcing. The Bush-Cheney campaign blasted that plan, saying it translates into a huge tax increase for Americans. Louise Schiavone takes a look at the competing economic proposals. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Determined to shake his party's anti-business reputation, Democrat John Kerry is casting himself as a corporate champion.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can and we should reduce the corporate tax rates by 5 percent to improve the competitiveness and narrow the difference between corporate tax rates here and overseas.
SCHIAVONE: Kerry hopes to intrigue the business world with a proposal to interrupt (ph) job outsourcing by giving American businesses tax incentives to add jobs at home.
NORM ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: There will be plenty of anti-business rhetoric in his campaign, plenty of populist rhetoric, and a lot about Benedict Arnold companies and us versus them. But if you, as a Democrat, push that too far, you may raise some questions about whether you can actually keep our capitalist economy going.
SCHIAVONE: But as Kerry unfurls his economic plans, President Bush has been out telling campaign audiences that things are already getting better, thanks to him.
GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Manufacturing activity is up. The unemployment rate today is lower than the average rate in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. We've overcome a lot.
SCHIAVONE: Among the president's proposals for business, extended dividend tax relief, increase small business tax expensing and eliminating frivolous or junk lawsuits. Both candidates want to help small businesses provide worker health coverage, and they're almost identical on middle class tax relief, extending the $1,000-per- child tax credit, eliminating the so-called "marriage penalty" and expanding the bottom 10 percent bracket, which relieves tax pressures on all wage earners. Democrats say the economy is weak, and it's the president's fault.
ANNOUNCER: George Bush, he supported tax breaks for exporting jobs and he raided Social Security to pay for a tax cut for millionaires.
SCHIAVONE: Republicans, meanwhile, are not about to yield to Democrats on tax breaks.
ANNOUNCER: Kerry voted to increase taxes on Social Security benefits. And he voted against giving small businesses tax credits to buy healthcare for employees.
SCHIAVONE: Households earning 200,000 or more would pay higher taxes under Kerry, but analysts note they will probably vote Republican anyway. (on camera): The Democratic contender has also made fiscal responsibility a big issue in his campaign, but with a ballooning federal deficit analysts question whether the nation can afford either the Kerry or Bush plan. Louise Schiavone for CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: The Kerry campaign today unveiled a new ad criticizing the Bush administration's stand that outsourcing, quote, "makes economic sense for American companies."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: While jobs are leaving our country in record numbers, George Bush says sending jobs overseas makes sense for America. His top economic advisers say moving American jobs to low-cost countries is a plus for the U.S.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The ad plays on what has become a major issue in the campaign. It will run beginning tomorrow in 17 battleground states. We have reported extensively on this program on exporting of manufacturing and service jobs to cheaper foreign labor markets. Tonight in our special report "Exporting America" yet another industry has found a way to export American jobs to foreign markets. As improbable as it may sound, even the construction business is turning to outsourcing. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the Salt Lake City Public Library partially built outside the U.S. using taxpayer dollars. The walls were precast in Mexico and shipped to Salt Lake City.
ED MAYNE, PRSE. UTAH AFL-CIO: I think that if people would have understood or knew about that prior to the letting of the bid, this would have been nipped in the bud right then and there by practical people saying, whoa, whoah hold on, what are we doing to our own community.
TUCKER: But there were no protests. When the trade union learned what was going on it was too late.
The situation is not as unique as it may sound. Here in the Astoria section of New York City a power plant is being planned for this site. It will rest here, it but won't be built here. It will be built in Singapore and then shipped here.
New York State is helping finance that with $400 million in liberty bonds. Those are low-cost taxes exempt bonds created to revitalize the city following the attacks of 9/11. In effect, the state is rewarding the offshoring of jobs.
ED SULLIVAN, PRES. BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL: We shouldn't be rewarding companies that are getting tax cuts for exporting jobs. We ought to get tax cuts for exporting products.
TUCKER: The Boilermakers Union worked for three years to support the project believing that it would create nearly a thousand jobs only to recently learn the work is going offshore. The union feels betrayed.
JERRY CONNOLLY, BOILERMAKER UNION: We are not looking to stop the project, what we're looking to do is to have local people have access to these jobs and the local community to have access to the money that is generated by these construction workers working in the area.
TUCKER: The New York State Liberty Development Corporation says union workers will be involved in the project. It notes that its completion is crucial to addressing New York City's power demands. Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: The United States is currently running a record trade imbalance with China. Well over $100 billion a year. That, of course, means far more Chinese imports are coming into this country than American goods go there. But as Peter Viles reports, one American company has found a way to break into the massive Chinese market.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This Connecticut factory is a strange place, because it's new and new factories are rare in America these days, but more unusual, some of what is made here seconds ported to China. And not to Chinese factories, but to Chinese consumers.
NICHOLAS NIEJELOW, PRES, CEO HABILIS: I was flabbergasted when I got the call from them. What is most interesting the fact that the Chinese perception of things made in the United States is of extremely high value. They place a very high value on American made goods.
This is where we inspect the molds.
VILES: Nick Niejelow invented a new process for making polycarbonate plastic lenses for eyeglasses. His new Resolution branded lenses are inexpensive, shatter proof, and compared to other plastic lenses, they provide much clearer vision. Niejelow's company Habilis, has 130 employees, is turning out 20,000 pairs of lenses a day, and recently got a huge order from China.
ALAN TONELSON, U.S. BUSINESS & INDUSTRY COUNCIL: It's very much the exception to the rule. The Chinese consumer remains a very elusive target for American companies seeking to export from the United States to china and is likely to remain that way for decades to come.
VILES: The lenses are distributed by Optima, a subsidiary of a Japanese company Asahi, but they are made in America and Neijelow considers them an American innovation.
NIEJELOW: I owe something to this country, and I think that if we have the ability to make something from a technological advancement where we can incorporate people to live here and work here, I will do my utmost.
VILES: In fact, business is so good, Niejelow is building a second factory, also in Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: It's a very unusual product. It is new, it is high demand for Russia to Brazil, and it is patented so the only place in the world where it is made right now, John, is right here in America.
KING: Pete, why so elusive? Why is it so hard for American companies to crack the market in China?
VILES: Two reasons, one, no question, the Chinese government makes it difficult to sell into China. That's why you see companies like Chrysler making Jeeps in Beijing. But the second reason, the bigger reason, it's not a mature consumer market. Most Chinese consumers really aren't fit to be consumers of American goods. They don't make enough money. They can't afford American goods -- John.
KING: Pete Vials, with one success story tonight. Thank you Pete.
And still ahead tonight, new concerns for American contractors in Iraq after yesterday's deadly attacks. We'll talk with the CEO of Stanley Consultants, an engineering firm that is helping rebuild Iraq.
And Robert Bonner, commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection says the immigration system is broken. He says the president's proposed guest worker program would help repair it. Mr. Bonner will be our guest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The brutal killings of four American contractors in Fallujah have raised new concerns about the safety of U.S. civilians in Iraq. Stanley Consultants have a small number of staff already in Iraq and is planning to send a dozen or so more. I am joined by the CEO of Stanley Consultants, Gregs Thomopulos. Sir, thank you for joining us tonight. I have to ask you, you have staff already in Iraq, family members must be enormously concerned after the events of recent days?
GREGS THOMOPULOS, PRES./CEO, STANLEY CONSULTANTS: That's very correct. We are also very concerned.
KING: Tell me about the security situation. Do you have military protection? Private protection? A combination?
THOMOPULOS: Project has been contracted with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers so we've always had military protection for our staff. KING: Military protection. So your staff goes nowhere in Iraq without military protection with them, that's correct?
THOMOPULOS: That is correct, sir.
KING: When you see an event like this, the killings of U.S. contractors, the bodies hung on a bridge, and people celebrating around them, do you still plan to send more of your employees into Iraq. Do you need fresh assurances from the military or you believe this situation is overall relatively secure?
THOMOPULOS: Well, it's very difficult to say what the overall situation would be in the future, but we've always been satisfied with the military escort and the military protection and believe that our people are in a safe environment and carrying out their duties. However, that said and done, there is no guarantee that they will not be caught in a crossfire. And that, of course, is a source of concern for all U.S. companies that have staff in Iraq.
KING: Where, sir, is your staff operating? Where in the country and what are they doing?
THOMOPULOS: We are based in Baghdad. Basically in the Green Zone. We are helping with the coalition provision authority in the master planning of the reconstruction program.
KING: Do you receive, because you have civilians on the ground, do you receive any briefings from the military on a constant basis? Updates on security, warnings about security, messages to send to your people on the ground about whether to move around the country. Is it a constant relationship like that?
THOMOPULOS: Well, I think our people are pretty aware of what's -- what the dangers are, and obviously they don't go anywhere without military escorts and they were briefed before going in there in terms of what to expect and the conditions in the country. We are there to do a job as an engineering company. We have always had our people volunteer to go to many, many places in the world that have been involved in post-war conflict. And the staff that we sent, the last -- in September all volunteered for this assignment.
KING: Gregs Thomopulos, CEO of Stanley Consultants. Sir, we thank you for your time tonight. We hope for the good safety of your people in Iraq. Thank you, sir.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll question. "Do you think the United States should hand over control of Iraq as scheduled on June 30? Yes, no, or too early to tell." Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll bring you the results a bit later in the show.
When we return, we'll be joined by Robert Bonner, commissioner for the U.S. Customs and Border Protection. He says President Bush's temporary worker plan will help us gain control of our broken borders.
Also ahead tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I was, like, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I was so happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The story of one soldier's surprise for his son. We'll continue in a moment. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: My next guest says this country's current immigration system is broken. He testified in favor of President Bush's temporary worker program on Capitol Hill today saying the plan will make his job easier. Joining me now is Robert Bonner, the head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
You say the new guest worker program would make it easier, others say why bring more immigrants into this country and essentially allow those in this country illegally now to come forward and get temporary recognition. Why reward them, if you will.
ROBERT BONNER, COMMISSIONER, U.S CUSTOMS & BORDER PROTECTION: First of all, the immigration system isn't working. Hasn't worked for years. And one of the things that the president's temporary worker program will accomplish is it will allow legal workers to legally migrate into this country. Right now we're faced with nearly a million apprehensions by the border patrol a year. When you have that many, I'm concerned about homeland security. I'm concerned about our ability to find the few terrorists or criminals that may be hidden in this flood of illegal migration. So it's important that we have the temporary worker program because it's going to give us greater control over our border.
KING: But you on Capitol Hill today, Senator Feinstein among those asking the question, would it not serve as a magnet? Would there not a flood of people trying to come across the border if you had this new temporary program?
BONNER: Well, I don't think so. First of all, there's no benefit from anybody illegally entering our country right now. We're going to continue and are continuing to vigorously enforce the laws of the United States and to arrest anybody that is illegally coming across our border. In fact...
(CROSSTALK)
BONNER: The president himself has said that nobody that's coming across the border now is going to get any benefit from the temporary worker programs. We have to understand that. The reality is, though, if you regularize this, in other words, if we have a sane realistic immigration system we're going to be able to reduce the flood of illegal migrants that are coming at U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the Border Patrol and we're going to be able to better control our border and, therefore, we will have much better prospects for being able to identify and intercept potential terrorists that maybe coming across our border. So it's always been important that we control our borders but since 9/11 it's essential that we do so.
KING: Whether you think this is a good idea or bad idea let's set that aside for a minute. We're in an election year. The president wants this done, many don't see him leaning into it as much as supporters think they need. The president actively saying do this, do this now. What's the political environment?
BONNER: First of all, I think the president has laid out the essential principles of the temporary worker program. He asked Congress to get behind this. And enact this legislation. And it's up to the Congress right now to take the issue, figure out the details of it, and to put together legislation that will make the temporary worker program a reality. And it's very important that they do so. It's important for the security of our homeland so we get better control of our borders. It's important that we know who is here in our country.
Right now we have millions of people here. We don't have any idea, really, who they are. And there are a few of them that may have intentions to do harm to our country. So this is going to give us a much better control and security in terms of the homeland, at our borders, and in the interior of our country. We need to get on with this. I'm hopeful, and I know the president is hopeful, that this the Congress will take his message seriously and attend to the business of putting together some legislation that will make the temporary worker program a reality.
KING: You mention you want to worry about potential terrorists or terrorists trying to get into the country. Help me understand, when you have an event like the tragic train bombing in Madrid. And the Spanish government saying, at least most of the suspects appear to be Moroccans. Do you study that, learn that lesson, watch the transit, are there realtime changes in how do you business here.
BONNER: You bet. First of all, the best way to prevent a terrorist attack happening in the United States is to prevent the terrorists from entering this country in the first instance. We're doing a very good job at Customs and Border Protection of identifying potential terrorists and denying them entry into the United States.
But we're concerned, I mean we're doing this at our official ports of entry, our international airports, our land border ports of entry, but we're concerned that al Qaeda and al Qaeda associated terrorist organizations may attempt to penetrate our border, for example, our southwest border with Mexico, and so we need to reduce the number of people that are illegally crossing that border to increase their ability to identify those few terrorists or criminals or drug smugglers that we want to make sure that we capture, arrest and prosecute and make sure that they are not arming our country.
But we've got to get this border more under control than it is now. And the president's proposal will help us do this. That's why one of the reasons that I would urge the Congress to enact the president's proposal.
KING: Robert Bonner, we thank you for your thoughts tonight, sir.
Turning now to the market. Stocks up slightly on Wall Street today. The Dow gained nearly 16. Nasdaq up more than 20 and the S&P rose nearly 6 points. Christine Romans joins us now from New York. And Christine, some big changes for the Dow Jones Industrial average today.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: John, the Dow Industrials will, in fact, be only about one-third industrial and more focused on finance and health. Three stocks will be dumped from the Dow, Kodak with a market cap of only $7 billion, it's not even considered a large cap stock anymore. Many say Kodak grasped digital photography just much too late. Ma Bell is out, replaced by one of her baby bells. And the lone paper company on the Dow lost the slot it has held since 1956.
In baby bell, Verizon, another baby bell, SBC communications already in there. Insurance giant AIG and Pfizer, it's the country's biggest drugmaker. These changes, John, take effect April 8.
KING: Christine, you keep us up to date on executive pay and tonight you have a peek into our boss's checks.
ROMANS: I do, John, we thought it was only fair. Time Warner CEO Richard Parsons earned a million and a half dollar salary last year, and an $8 million cash bonus. The top five Time Warner executives shared a payout last year of just over $31 million.
John, at the same time Time Warner shares rose 37 percent last year, but they are still down 66 percent since Time Warner merged with AOL in December of 2000.
KING: I have to go back and check my bonus. Christine.
Tomorrow, we'll find out if any jobs were created in March. What is the expectation on Wall Street.
ROMANS: Wall Street expects 100,000, 125,000 jobs created, but remember that's what Wall Street, the so-called experts, expected in February and they only got 21,000.
Also, John, tonight word from Gateway, more layoffs. It's closing 188 Gateway retail stores, laying off 2,500 workers. So the layoffs still continue. High hopes for tomorrow's report. But we'll have to wait and see.
KING: We'll wait and see. And we'll see you tomorrow. Christine Romans, thank you very much.
And now for a look at some of your thoughts. Many of you wrote about our "Faceoff" last night, debating whether religious symbols should be banned from public schools.
Steve of Cary, North Carolina, "How can someone allow religious insignia in schools and at the same time refuse prayer or saying under god in the Pledge of Allegiance." Mary of Racine, Wisconsin, "in this country we have the freedom of religion, not from religion."
On exporting America, Jack McAllister of Dresden, New York writes, "why is it illegal to sell a store to sell a widget produced in Ohio with labor paid below minimum wages, but legal if a foreign company produced the same widget with labor paid below the minimum wage standards that U.S. companies are bound to by law."
Steve Huvland of San Francisco, "exporting jobs in a time of unemployment is like drilling holes in the bottom of a boat during a storm."
We love hearing from you as always. E-mail us at CNN -- loudobbs@cnn.com.
A reminder now to check our Web site for the complete list of companies we confirmed to be Exporting America, CNN.com/lou. And still to come, a surprise homecoming. Someone this 17-year-old didn't expect to see at school was his dad. We'll have that story and it's a great one when we continue in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Now the result of tonight's poll question. 54 percent of you believed the United States should hand over control of Iraq on June 30. 28 percent do not. And 18 percent, too early to tell.
And finally tonight, what was just another day of first grade for Andrew Gapinski became a day he will never forget when a special visitor surprised his class. Scott Johnson of CNN affiliate WJXT reports from Jacksonville, Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LT. COL. MATT GAPINSKI, U.S. ARMY: Andrew doesn't know that I'm coming home today.
SCOTT JOHNSON, WJXT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While 7-year-old Andrew Gapinski sang patriotic songs in his class, little did he know his own patriot was soon showing up.
M. GAPINSKI: He knows that I'm coming home soon, probably this week, but he doesn't know that today was the day.
ANDREW GAPINSKI, FATHER SURPRISED HIM AT SCHOOL: We were singing songs and then my dad came through the back door.
JOHNSON: And Andrew's expression said it all.
M. GAPINSKI: Got a kiss for daddy?
JOHNSON: He, along with his little sister and brother, were seeing Lieutenant Colonel Matt Gapinski for the first time in months. He's back from Iraq permanently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy's home. It's all over.
M. GAPINSKI: Oh, wow, did you guys make that?
JOHNSON: The schools is covered with signs thanking this soldier...
A. GAPINSKI: It was like -- I was like going to cry because I was so happy.
JOHNSON: And while Andrew holds back the tears...
M. GAPINSKI: Can you say da, da, da?
JOHNSON: His 11-month-old brother is meeting his dad for only the second time.
M. GAPINSKI: He probably doesn't remember me, so I need to get reacquainted with him.
JOHNSON: Now there will finally be time for catching up.
A. GAPINSKI: I was just so excited.
JOHNSON: Could you believe it?
A. GAPINSKI: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Priceless smile. Happy tears. Welcome home, Colonel.
That's our show tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, Treasury Secretary John Snow joins us on the economy, trade and the exporting of America. And former presidential adviser David Gergen will be my guest. From all of us here, good night from Washington.
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