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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Coalition Forces Battle Iraqi Insurgents; Bush and Kerry Unveil Employment Plans
Aired April 06, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, a new offensive in Iraq, U.S. Marines pushing into Fallujah, while coalition forces fight insurgents in Baghdad and across southern Iraq. We'll have a live report from Baghdad. And the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Duncan Hunter, joins us.
Fighting for votes with promises of jobs. President Bush and Senator Kerry unveil their new plans to help millions of Americans find work.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want people to be prepared for the 21st century.
DOBBS: Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe joins us.
In "Exporting America" tonight, a shocking new report on the number of laid-off American workers who are forced to train their foreign replacements.
And the battle between Border Patrol agents and illegal alien and drug smugglers is growing more bloody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's not the most violent place on the Southern Arizona, it sure is close.
DOBBS: We'll have a special report today tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, April 6. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, U.S. Marines are engaged in an intense firefight with Iraqi insurgents in the Sunni town of Ramadi. Initial reports from the Ramadi battlefield say as many as a dozen U.S. Marines have been killed.
CNN's Walt Rodgers is live in Baghdad with the story.
Walt, what is the latest you have for us on the attack Ramadi? WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, several hours ago, a band of Iraqi insurgents, upwards of 100, forced their way at gunpoint into a number of government buildings in Ramadi. Ramadi is an Iraqi town about 60 miles west of Baghdad. It's in the heart of the so-called Sunni Triangle. This is where the remnants of Saddam's army have formed, reformed.
This is where much of the opposition over the course of the last year to the American occupation has taken place. There was some very severe fighting. This is the U.S. Marines' area of responsibility. We're told upwards of 12 U.S. Marines have died trying to retake those Iraqi government buildings in Ramadi, fighting the insurgents. We're told at least a dozen more Marines were injured. Again, the situation's very, very fluid at this point.
What we are also told, however, is that this is not a major military offensive, something short of that. It would be a stretch, according to one military source, to call this a major offensive. Still, it is the Sunnis continuing their struggle against the American occupation in an area which has seen trouble almost since the statute of Saddam fell a year ago, April 9 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Walt, if this is not a major offensive with violence and these deadly attacks against U.S. Marines being reported from Ramadi tonight, all across southern Iraq, incidents in Baghdad as well, what in the world should we call it?
RODGERS: Well, I'm talking about Ramadi. This is one incident, one town. And what you have is, you're quite correct, a very substantial uprising all across Iraq. And what's interesting is that you have this revolt in Ramadi by about 100 insurgents there. You have the incidents in Fallujah, where the Marines are trying to move in not very far Ramadi.
But even more threatening to the United States is what you're seeing is this armed Shiite revolt across the country. We've seen very bloody fighting in Baghdad itself. We've heard machine guns just a few hours ago here. More Iraqis are dying there. More soldiers engaged in battle there. The coalition forces, the British coalition forces in Amara are fighting the Shiite revolt.
In Nasiriyah, the Italian coalition forces are fighting this. And in Kut, the Ukrainian coalition forces are fighting this. So there is a very substantial revolt across this country, despite the assurance of the chief U.S. administrator here, Paul Bremer, that everything is under control. It's not the kind of control I think the White House would like to see -- Lou.
DOBBS: Walt, thank you very much -- Walt Rodgers reporting live from Baghdad.
As Walt reported, the attack tonight comes amid rising violence between insurgents and coalition troops throughout Iraq. Marines in Fallujah today pushed into the chaotic city from several directions. They met with heavy fire from assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades. The U.S. military said five were killed in the al-Anbar province, where Fallujah is located.
Closer to Baghdad, U.S. forces clashed with militants tied to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Three American soldiers were killed in that engagement. Al-Sadr is believed to be in Najaf tonight. That city located to the southwest of Baghdad. He's holed up in a mosque there. Hundreds of militants defending him have taken control of the city's police and religious sites.
Joining me now, CNN Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
Jamie, what is the latest you can tell us about this most recent attack and the heavy casualties in Ramadi?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not clear if that firefight is still ongoing or whether the action has died down at this point.
But what clear is that this was a major attack, a deadly attack, against U.S. Marines who we were told were occupying a position near the governor's palace in al-Ramadi, a Sunni stronghold just west of Baghdad and west of Fallujah where that U.S. Marine offensive is going on to try to pacify that city. We are told that dozens of Iraqis attacked the Marine position. Again, as many as 12 Marines killed. Some number greater than that were also wounded. We're told less than two dozen, but more than a dozen Marines also wounded in that operation.
And they inflicted heavy casualties as well on the opposition forces, the anti-U.S. forces, but no specific numbers from the Pentagon. This, the Pentagon believes, that they're dealing with in this case former regime elements, Baathist sympathizers, the same sort of folks that are putting up resistance in Fallujah. They don't believe at this point that this is under the influence of the radical Muslim cleric al-Sadr, who incited violence against the U.S. over the weekend.
And as Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said earlier today, Lou, he said, there are going to be some good days and some bad days in Iraq. Clearly, from the U.S. perspective, this was a bad day -- Lou.
DOBBS: The secretary of defense using that expression frequently over the course of the past year, good days and bad days. With this number of Americans dying today in Iraq, what is the Pentagon's best judgment about what is going on, because we have, in the Sunni Triangle, we know at least 12 American Marines have died today? Across Southern Iraq more attacks from the Shiite leader in southern Iraq. This seems to be coordinated but the offensive being carried out by Shia and Sunnis.
MCINTYRE: I think the big question is, is the Pentagon in some sort of denial when they insist, and they are insisting, that these are isolated incidents, that they believe they can bring this under control, that they don't need to send more troops in at this time? That's the optimistic spin that you get on this here at the Pentagon from officials, both civilian and military. And the real question is, as you watch these events, and, of course, we don't have the full perspective of everything that's going on in the country, but it certainly doesn't look like things are going well. It does look like things are getting out of control. So, you know, time will tell, I guess, if their assessment is correct. But we're continuing to get fairly moderate upbeat assessments from the Pentagon about how they think things are going to go from here. Meanwhile, the reports from the battlefield are not good.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
A new audiotape purportedly from senior al Qaeda operative Musab al-Zarqawi says a radical Islamist terrorist is stepping up attacks on Americans in Iraq. The audiotape was played on an is Islamist Web site and claimed responsibility for several attacks in Iraq, including the August bombing at the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad.
The audiotapes come as a Jordanian court today sentenced al- Zarqawi to death for the 2002 killing of the U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley. Al-Zarqawi and seven other al Qaeda members were convicted in that killing.
The rising violence in Iraq comes less than three months before the expected transfer of sovereignty. A United Nations team is working to put together an Iraqi government to take power on the 30th of June. But many questions, many profound questions, remain about the transfer of power, as Kitty Pilgrim now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The deadline is firm. The day after June 30, Iraq will have its sovereignty. But who will be in charge?
DAN SENOR, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: I think there is somehow this view that there's going to be this dramatic change after June 30, as though the lights will be switched off and we will depart. And that is simply not the case.
PILGRIM: More than 100,000 U.S. troops will still be patrolling the country. And the U.S. will be distributing billions of dollars in reconstruction funds over many years. And the biggest U.S. Embassy in the world will employ thousands. Government, however, will be up to the Iraqis. What kind of government? That responsibility rests on a U.N. team led by Lakhdar Brahimi.
PAUL BREMER, U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: The secretary general of the U.N.'s special representative has been now here five days. He's conducting those consultations, as we are, and we are determining the size and shape of the interim government.
PILGRIM: Will the current Iraqi Governing Council be simply expanded until elections can be held?
NOAH FELDMAN, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Until there's security on the ground, elections can't really be held. So the honest truth is that no one can know for sure when we're going to hold elections unless we have got some modicum of security.
PILGRIM: There has been some progress towards the transfer of power, including the signing of the interim constitution. Iraqi security forces have taken over patrols in some areas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the United States is putting its hope in U.N. Enjoy Lakhdar Brahimi. It's up to him to pull together the disparate Iraqi groups to decide what kind of government they want -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the security of Iraq, which is absent tonight certainly, is still the responsibility of the U.S. government.
PILGRIM: It is.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Kitty -- Kitty Pilgrim.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair will travel to the United States to the White House next week to meet with President Bush. Administration sources tell us the trip was planned weeks ago before this recent rise in violence in Iraq. Iraq and the planned June 30 handover of sovereignty will be a major focus we're told between the talks between President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. They will also be discussing progress in Afghanistan and the latest in the Middle East.
Still ahead here tonight, we'll have the latest from the Pentagon on the major offensive against Marines tonight in Ramadi. Also, some U.S. lawmakers are among those now questioning whether Iraq is ready for the June 30 handover. House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter is not among them. He will join us with his thoughts on the timeline, the security of American service men and women in Iraq.
Also, Senator John Kerry prepares to release his bold new ideas for creating millions of jobs in this country. Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe is our guest.
And a shocking report on the number of American companies avoiding federal income taxes. We'll have that special report coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Bush administration has just released a two-sentence statement reacting to this latest violence in Iraq, the attacks tonight against U.S. Marines in Ramadi.
A White House spokesman said -- quote -- "This administration remains committed to finishing the job in Iraq. It is very clear from what the general and commanders have said that the United States will respond in the time and fashion of our choosing. The president is at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. He's being briefed on all developments out of Iraq." Joining me now is Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. He is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and joins us tonight from San Diego.
Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: This is terrible news out of Iraq tonight, more than -- more than a dozen U.S. Marines have been wounded, as many as 24 in these initial reports from the battlefield in Ramadi, 12 Marines killed. What first your reaction to this wave of violence that seems to be sweeping across much of Iraq?
HUNTER: Well, first, Lou, obviously we're in a major -- in a series of firefights across Iraq right now, and what we have to do is -- and I'm sure the commanders on the ground are doing -- is button down, stay in good, solid positions, and weather this assault that's being made in a number of areas of operation.
So right now, we simply have to hang in there, be tough. And I'm sure that the commanders who are on the ground right now, most of whom have a great deal of battlefield experience, are doing just that. And one good thing is that we haven't rotated the 1st Armored Division out of the Sunni Triangle. As you know, the 1st Cavalry Division has come in. They were to take the place of the 1st Armored Division, which was going to leave. So right now, you have got an extra heavy division in the center of the Sunni Triangle.
And I think that's going to be a very important element here.
DOBBS: Your reaction to the White House statement, two sentences, saying that they're satisfied that commanders in Iraq will react in a time and place of their choosing? This is language, Mr. Chairman, we've heard from this administration, from this Pentagon for the past year, since the war in Iraq began.
HUNTER: Well, Lou, I think, first, and I'm watching this and working on a daily basis, as are all members of Congress and members of the Armed Services Committee especially, the -- all you can say when you're in the middle of a firefight as a political leader back here in the states is, hang in there and our people on the ground and our leadership on the ground on the battlefield are in charge of this operation and they have to see it through.
At this point, there's no time to make an analysis that would indicate a political change while you're in the middle of a firefight. So that's a very short statement of resolve. Simply put, we do have to hang tough and be very steady. And our people on the ground there and our leadership at the battalion level and the company level hopefully will button their people down and hold on this wave of assaults throughout the country.
DOBBS: Congressman...
HUNTER: They have to do that. DOBBS: Congressman, I know for a fact that you and I share an extraordinary confidence in our fighting men and women in Iraq. And that isn't really what I was talking about. They deserve our support. They have our support and our confidence.
But the issue of what is going on in Iraq, strategically in terms of the mission, the June 30 handover against what is now an almost countrywide insurgency and attacks, fatal attacks, on U.S. force there a year after -- almost a year after the end of major combat operations, does this give you considerable pause about the intelligence, the appropriateness of handing over power on June 30?
HUNTER: Well, with respect to whether we're going to hand over the sovereignty, that's not the security apparatus. That's simply the sovereignty. And that may be simply an expansion of this governing council that's in place right now.
I think, Lou, that if we did this handoff next year or the year after that, you're going to see an upsurge in violence by people that don't want to see the sovereignty handed over. They don't want to see a successful transfer. So if we do it now, we're going to have violence prestaging that handover. And if we do it a year from now, I think we'll have violence prestaging the handover.
I think it's a mistake for us as political leaders right now to indicate that somehow this wave of violence -- and as you know the people that are behind it like the cleric who has inspired this Mahdi army, would like nothing better than to have their people come in and brief them the next day to the effect that the Americans -- after we hit them yesterday, the Americans have now changed their positions.
One other thing that I think is important, Lou, is this. At some point, you have got to put some of this burden of running this country on the leadership that we've put in place, that we've grown from the grassroots level. And I think now is a good time to put it on them. If they can't hang on to it, now, if they're not capable of doing that, I don't think they're going to be able do it a year from now, two years from now, three years from now.
You have to start letting them assume some of that burden or they're not going to develop enough strength to endure.
DOBBS: Certainly a test of strength is under way, and if the insurgents, Sunni, Shia, al Qaeda perhaps, as well attacking U.S. forces in Iraq, have that confidence and that wherewithal, it doesn't require much imagination to think they would have no trouble of attacking an interim, incipient government that would be receiving that power on June 30.
But let me ask you about General Abizaid, the CENTCOM commander, who has now called upon his commanders in the field for recommendations, options, as he put it, to bring in reinforcements and to provide security first for U.S. forces in Iraq, and then for the Iraqi people. Your reaction?
HUNTER: Yes. Well, first, my recommendation to SECDEF -- and I just sent it off about 30 minutes ago -- and they may already be doing this -- but my recommendation to Don Rumsfeld is to hang on to that 1st Armored Division that's right now set in the center of the Sunni Triangle that was going to be coming back to the United States. That division is there. It's a heavy division. And you have the 1st Cav now in the center of the triangle, so that the best thing to do right now is hang on to the 1st Armored.
Don't move them back in the rotation. I'm sure the rotation and all the travel that's inherent in that rotation has been suspended during the series of firefights. So don't make the rotation. Keep the 1st Armored division in the center of the Sunni Triangle. And any other units that we're rotating out, keep them in place.
Right now, we actually have a lot of heavy forces in place. In the triangle, you have got the 1st Cav, you've got the 1st Armored Division, you've got obviously the 1st Marine Division to the west, and you've got the 1st Infantry Division that has taken the place of the 4th. The 4th has come back already. But the 1st Armored hasn't come back. I think we should keep them there. The's a heavy division in place. And that's the best way to have more people on the ground right now.
DOBBS: Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld has said that he would bring reinforcements if his commanders in Iraq request them. Does that strike you as the stuff of real leadership be, waiting for his subordinates? I'm sorry, Congressman.
HUNTER: Yes, you're going to have to -- you have to lead with that question again. My earpiece fell out, Lou. I'm sorry.
DOBBS: Well, I apologize for that. Well, yes, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said he would be willing to bring reinforcements and to bolster U.S. forces in Iraq if his commanders in the field request them. Does that strike you as the sort of leadership that is needed right now? Shouldn't that assessment be made and be made quickly to provide for the security of our troops?
HUNTER: Well, as I said, right now, you've got the extra division in Iraq and so I'm sure they're being used in this present firefight. So the secretary has the option of keeping them there, and I think that's -- I hope that that's what's going to happen.
But this secretary has always relied heavily, ever since the days of Tommy Franks and the invasion, has relied heavily on his leadership in theater. And to this date, that's worked well. I think that General Abizaid is going to be candid in -- with respect to his requests for more troops if he thinks he needs them. But, once again, he has got that heavy division in place right now. The best way it handle this is, don't let them go, keep them in place, keep them working with the 1st Cavalry Division.
DOBBS: Congressman Duncan Hunter, thanks for being with us, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question: Do you believe President Bush should keep the June 30 turnover deadline for Iraq, even if Iraq's government and security forces aren't fully prepared to take power, yes or no? Please cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.
Coming up next, as many as a dozen American Marines have been killed in Iraq tonight, up to two dozen wounded. We'll have a live report for you from the Pentagon for the very latest on the attacks in Ramadi.
Also ahead, average Americans are handing over hard-earned pay in income taxes while mighty corporations struggling to compete globally haven't been paying taxes at all. We'll have that report.
And a violent struggle along our nation's "Broken Borders," illegal aliens stepping up their measures and the Border Patrol fighting back.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: If you're paying your income taxes, you're different than most corporations in this country. According to a disturbing new report from the investigative arm of Congress, more than half of all American corporations didn't pay any federal income tax from 1996 to 2000.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Leona Helmsley said only the little people pay taxes. Years later, she's still got a point. A new report from Congress shows that 63 percent of U.S. corporations paid no federal income tax in the year 2000. Seventy- three percent of foreign companies operating in the U.S. paid nothing as well.
Senator Byron Dorgan requested the study from the investigative different arm of Congress.
SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: This GAO report says that we've got a couple different kinds of taxpayers, little folks that pay their taxes and big enterprises, giant enterprises, that do a lot of business, make a lot of money and pay nothing. I think that's shameful.
VILES: Through tax shelters, write-offs, creative accounting and many, many friendships in Washington, corporate America has reduced its tax burden over the years. In the 1950s, corporate income taxes made up a third of all federal revenues, now just one-fourteenth. Income taxes for individuals account for roughly half.
The big tax increase is in what's collected for Social Security and Medicare. When it comes to lobbying Congress, nobody does it better than big business.
STEVEN WEISS, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: They spend a lot of their time trying to insert tax cuts into bills that otherwise have nothing to do with taxes. It's safe to say that business interests wake up every morning in Washington hoping to reduce taxes in some form or fashion.
VILES: If most big businesses aren't paying taxes, well, who is? Remember that most small businesses don't have armies of accountants or lobbyists and many pay income taxes at the individual rate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Nation's largest business lobby, the Chamber of Commerce, dismissed this report as misleading, arguing that many of those companies that are not paying taxes are not making a profit. It is true that a fraction of companies in this country, less than 1 percent, do pay well over 90 percent of all the corporate taxes checked collected -- Lou.
DOBBS: Amazing report and amazing statistic, especially in the argument that -- amongst the arguments in international competitiveness that corporate America needs lower taxes.
VILES: Right. If anything, that's the discussion, is, how can we lower the corporate tax rate and still get more money out of corporate America?
DOBBS: Peter Viles, thank you, sir.
Increasing violence along our nation's border with Mexico, as smugglers of drugs and illegal aliens are becoming vicious. Tonight, we take a look at the dangerous struggle between those smugglers and the U.S. Border Patrol.
Casey Wian reports from Nogales, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They call it Hamburger Hill, peaceful during the day, but after dark...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's not the most violent place on the Southern Arizona, it sure is close.
WIAN: It's a major smuggling route for drugs and illegal aliens where Border Patrol agents are regularly assaulted by rock-throwing Mexicans. Border Patrol vehicles here are caged to deflect rocks and agents now use modified paintball guns that shoot pepper powder at rock throwers.
NATHAN HILLIARD, BORDER PATROL AGENT: Rocks start coming over the fence, we can shoot this pepper ball. It defends -- it disperses pepper powder down on them.
WIAN: Within seconds of our arrival, agents capture five suspected illegal aliens who crossed over Hamburger Hill headed to New York. They don't all go so peacefully.
Last month outside this detention facility, an alien tried to grab an agent's gun. Both were shot. The agent is recovering, the alien charged with assault on a federal officer.
ANDY ADAME, BORDER PATROL SUPERVISOR: We have seen an increase in violence along the boarder. Our agents have been fired upon more, they've assaulted them with rocks. They've actually, you know, try to run them over than more in the past.
WIAN: In Douglas, run-ins with smugglers totalled these four vehicles in just one week.
LEE MORGAN, ICE AGENT-IN-CHARGE: Dope smugglers and human traffickers are probably the meanest, cruelest criminals on the border or in the United States. They're unparalleled in their viciousness.
WIAN: The day before we arrived agents seized this 1,700 pound marijuana load. Human smugglers are operating over the same routes as drug smugglers. The boarder patrol is responding with more agents and monitoring devices so alien smugglers are bringing larger groups across knowing some will get away. We accompanied the border patrol on two pursuits, the first two suspected drug mules.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully we'll sandwich them them.
WIAN: But darkness and rough terrain helped them escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing that may are have helped us in this situation is to have additional agents, 10 guys definitely going to do a better job of searching for someone than three guys.
WIAN: Later we pursued a group of 60 illegal aliens, wait helicopter, only a dozen were caught. These men walked three days and have no food or water. Border crossers are regularly victimized by kidnappers and bandits. But that's not the reason this man says he won't cross again. He says he paid $3,000 to cross, about double the going rate a year ago.
Casey Wian, CNN, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In broken borders tonight, on the same day that a Miami herald Zogby poll shows Hispanic agree with Democrats on political issues, Florida's Governor Jeb Bush, announced his support of a bill in Florida that would give driver's licenses to illegal aliens who undergo screening. Governor Bush stressed he is not encouraging more illegal immigration is not this country but he said once here, they shouldn't be ignored. He says the legislation has enough safeguards to ensure those illegal aliens issued licenses aren't terrorists.
"Tonight's thought" on immigration. "The great social adventure of America is no longer the conquest of the wilderness, but the absorption of 50 different peoples." Those the words of journalist, Walter Lippmann. When we continue, Marines under attack in Iraq. Insurgents launched a large-scale attack against U.S. Marines in Ramadi, and initial reports have 12 U.S. Marines killed in that action. The latest from for you.
And deficits and taxes, President Bush and Senator Kerry each say they have a plan for the economy and jobs. Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe is my guest.
And economist David Kelly said capitalism is cruel, millions out of work, but foreign trade isn't the reason and outsourcing will ultimately be positive. He is also our guest tonight. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now with more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Our top story tonight, U.S. Marines under attack in the Iraqi town of Ramadi. As many as 12 Marines have been killed.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us with the very latest -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It's still not clear if this action is completely over, but is what clear, one of the deadly engagements for U.S. Marines since the major combat phase. As you said as many as 12 Marines killed. Perhaps as many as 20 injured in this attack. And I'm told that dozens of the attacking anti-U.S. Iraqis were also killed in this firefight, which was intense and went on for hours. It took place at a Marine position near the governor's mansion in Ar Ramadi, a town in the middle of the Sunni triangle, the area where anti-U.S. sentiment is among the highest among the former Ba'athist and sympathizers with the former regime. The U.S. is still not clear who it was dealing with, but it believes it was former regime elements -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, this has got to be troubling to CENTCOM to the administration, the Pentagon.
Ramadi, Fallujah, effectively not now under U.S. control or coalition control?
MCINTYRE: Well, I'm not in the position to make that call. They may have re-established control and retake somebody of those buildings that were attacked today, but clearly the U.S. Has got to be taking another look at its security situation and what it needs to protect its forces. Those Marines who apparently were overrun by insurgents were clearly not in a position to adequately defend themselves or adequately called in back up power fast enough to prevent these heavy casualties.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre our senior Pentagon correspondent. President Bush and Senator Kerry both focusing on economics on the campaign trail today. President Bush focused on this plan to create jobs through tax cuts and job training. President Bush speaking in Arkansas where the unemployment rate is 9.1 percent. In Cincinnati, Democrat John Kerry criticized the president on a broad range of issues including the deficit, jobs and tax cuts. Senator Kerry promised to create 10 million new jobs over four years if elected.
Economics, of course, only one of the issues in this election. Obviously a critically important one. It is just one of the topics tonight for my next guest, Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
Good to have you with us.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CHAIRMAN, DNC: Hey Lou, how are you?
DOBBS: I am outstanding and I would ask first if -- how you believe your candidate is doing at this point?
MCAULIFFE: Well, John Kerry's doing exceptionally well. If you look at the polling data, ahead in several polls. You saw the Pugh poll come out today, came out today that showed George Bush's approval rating was 43 percent. He's not creating jobs, 2.6 million people have lost their job, Lou, since George Bush became president. So he's got a real credibility problem. Health care, education, jobless a mess on our hands in Iraq. John Kerry is out there with a plan to create 10 million jobs. He's going to give a major speech tomorrow on how we need to deal obviously with these deficits and get us back in surplus spending. So I'm very encouraged, It's 210 days away, but I'm very encouraged about where we are. People are very excited, coming out in record numbers. The party's in the best shape we've been in.
DOBBS: The fact is that, 308,000 jobs created in March, we're looking at the -- at according to the latest numbers, the best in terms of layoffs and almost nine months. Things are looking strong in a certain direction for the employment situation.
Are you heartened by that fact?
MCAULIFFE: Listen, we're encouraged any time someone gets a job in this country. But we need to look at the broader perspective. 514,000 people just gave up looking for work in the month of March. So as they say, 300,000 jobs created, 500,000 people just left the job front. As you know, George Bush promised us with his tax cuts that he would create 5.1 million jobs. He has lost 2.6 million jobs. That is a 7.7 million job change in what he promised Americans. So, you know, we've had 43 bad months of economic growth. We have one month with 300,000 jobs. We're excited about those 300,000 people, but we're also concerned about the 500,000 people who just left the job market. And to the millions of people who now, you know, have exhausted their unemployment benefits looking for work and can't find it.
DOBBS: Turning for the issue of a running mate for Senator Kerry. Considerable focus remains on Senator John McCain a long-time friend of Senator Kerry.
What are your thoughts?
MCAULIFFE: Well, I clearly don't know what senator Kerry's going to do but I'll tell you this. I thought it was spectacular that John McCain, when they went after John Kerry as the issues of patriotism, John McCain, a fellow war hero with Senator Kerry, stood up and said he's not going to stand by and allow them to attack John Kerry's patriotism. So my hat's off to Senator McCain for standing and doing the right thing, and that's what this campaign ought to be about. We're not going to stand by and allowed them to distort John Kerry's record. We're going to fight aggressively. But John McCain did the right thing, and I'll leave it up to Senator Kerry, of whom he thinks would be the best running mate for him.
DOBBS: Well, what do you think? Do you think Senator McCain would be a sure-fire bet on the ticket?
MCAULIFFE: Well, I don't know who would be sure-fire. The good news for the Democratic Party, Lou, is we have an absolute wealth of candidates to look forward to. This is about winning electoral college votes. Right now, as you know, we have about 100 electoral votes more than George Bush does, if you look at the polling data around the target states and the states that we now have solidly in our column. We're in very good shape. It's going to come down to who's going to help us get 270 electoral votes.
Let us look at everybody. Everybody ought to be on the table. Ultimately, John Kerry is going to have to decide, if anything ever happened to him, who would be the best person to step in his shoes and become president of this country.
All of our candidates, I would love to see in a debate with Dick Cheney and let Vice President Cheney explain all the issues about his behavior, the administration's behavior, about the energy task force, the high gas prices, all the issues around Halliburton and everything else. So, you know, this is going to be a spirited campaign. And John Kerry is out there. Tomorrow, a major speech about getting us back into a surplus situation, 10 million new jobs created. That's what Americans want to hear from us, Lou.
DOBBS: Terry, Senator McCain called the Democrats a fine party. Do you feel the same way about the Republicans?
MCAULIFFE: Sure. I think they're a fine party. This is democracy. You know, we're all out there trying to get our message out. A lot of great people in the Republican Party. Ultimately, what Americans want us to talk about, Lou, is who is going to do the best job of creating jobs in this country. As I said, George Bush has a 7.7 million shift in where he promised us we would be today. He's not done what he said he would do on education or health care, and as you know, we have a mess on our hands in Iraq.
DOBBS: Terry, I know you have got to be recovering from your disappoint that Ralph Nader was unable in the state of Oregon secure enough signatures. Have you recovered at this point? MCAULIFFE: I've recovered. Let's make sure, as we go forward, that, you know, he has the same issues going forward. Listen, Ralph Nader doesn't want, you know, his legacy to be that he got George Bush eight years. I have spoken to Ralph Nader several times. He has told me personally that George Bush is the worst president in modern history. He wants to do anything that he can to help us beat George Bush. He said, Terry, I want to beat him more than you do. Now, Lou, I don't -- I appreciate the sentiment. Probably not true. But I know and feel that at the end of the day Ralph Nader is going to do the right thing, he's going to get out of this race and he's going to support John Kerry, because everything that John Kerry's fighting for is what Ralph Nader cares about.
DOBBS: Terry McAuliffe, thank you very much for being with us.
MCAULIFFE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, exporting America, a practice becoming more widespread for American workers: Training their foreign replacements. We'll tell you about a revealing new study on the issue next.
And voters in California to decide whether they want the world's largest retailer in their community. We'll have that story for you as we continue here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest suggests that outsourcing American jobs is a positive, as is free trade, despite a looming, looming deficit, employees being asked by their employers as well to train cheaper foreign workers, who ultimately take their jobs for much less pay. Tonight for the first time, a new study reveals just how widespread that practice has become. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Natasha Humphries is an unemployed software engineer from California. Six months ago, she was laid off from her job after training her Indian replacement.
NATASHA HUMPHRIES, OUTSOURCED WORKER: Basically, their strategy was to keep our nose to the grind so we couldn't keep an eye on the axe looming above our heads.
SYLVESTER: Same story for Myra Bronstein (ph). She trained her replacement, then her company booted her.
A new survey by the Washington Alliance of Technology Workers found 23 percent of technology workers said their company had shifted jobs overseas. Seventeen percent said they had personally lost their job or knew someone who lost their job after training a foreign worker. And 81 percent said they supported restricting the H1b visa program which allows companies to bring foreign workers to the United States. MARCUS COURTNEY, PRESIDENT, WASHTECH: What they're being told is that if you want to see a severance package or you want an additional six weeks of work, they strongly encourage you to train, you know, your foreign replacements. It's really almost coercion what companies are doing to get workers to do this.
SYLVESTER: A bill in Congress would require companies to disclose if they're outsourcing work overseas. Legislation in Washington state would mandate employers give their workers advanced notice before replacement training begins.
ZACH HUDGINS, WASHINGTON HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: As we move into a more global economy, we need to set standards, we need to make sure that people here at home are treated properly.
SYLVESTER: But technology companies say the government should not tie their hands.
HARRIS MILLER, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: What's important is that we not try to dictate to companies how they run their labor policies in this country. Because what that does is it stifles economic innovation and creativity.
SYLVESTER: The technology industry says job retraining is the answer. But the laid off workers fear no job is safe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The survey found that technology workers are quite a political force. Nine out of 10 of those surveyed ready registered to vote; 41 percent are Republicans, 26 percent Democrats, and 32 percent call themselves independent -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
My next guest says free trade will ultimately benefit American workers and the economy. David Kelly, economic adviser with Putnam Investments joining us tonight from Boston. Good to have you with us.
DAVID KELLY, ECONOMIC ADVISER, PUTNAM INVESTMENTS: Glad to be here.
DOBBS: You look like a David, if I may say. The fact of the matter is, we're looking at a half trillion dollar trade deficit, we are looking at hundreds of thousands of jobs being outsourced, a huge, looming external trade debt, as you know. Where does this end?
KELLY: Well, let me correct something right at the start. I don't think that outsourcing is good. I don't believe that, and I actually have never said that. But I do think that free trade is good. And, in fact, I think we're actually turning the corner here. Our exports are growing faster than our imports at this stage, particularly over the last six months. We've seen the dollar come down. World growth is picking up. And I think we should fight the battle of international trade on offense rather than on defense. DOBBS: Well, I think that's good. I apologize. I was led to understand that you had embraced the idea of outsourcing as part of trade, and I personally am delighted to hear that is not the case.
But let's go to the issue of free trade as we style it here. If there is free trade, why in the world do we look at China, for example, which has a ratio of just about 10 to one the tariffs against our products as we do theirs, and call that free trade? There's no way that I see that it is a -- as this administration likes to call it -- a level playing field.
KELLY: Well, it isn't a level playing field, and I think the most important thing here to do is the simplest thing. We have got to bring our currency down. The dollar has come down a lot against the euro, but where we really need to bring it down is against the Chinese currency. But China is, you know, a relatively new part of the global economy in terms of its size. I think we do have time to open up Chinese markets, I think that's what we should do, but I think we should do it from the perspective of trying to build our exports rather than trying to restrict our imports.
DOBBS: I think that's a terrific idea as well. What would you export to China that could make up $124 billion annual deficit?
KELLY: Well, first of all, we can export more capital goods. We export $1 trillion worth of goods in this country. And China's got a huge demand for new equipment, new technology. We're very good at producing that. We just need to get the dollar down so -- to a level that allows us to compete in these markets. But I've got a lot of faith in American business to be able to do that.
DOBBS: Well, I've got great faith in American business and almost none at all in frankly in the politics right now of free trade because as I look at it, we are looking at a half trillion dollar -- better than 5 percent right now -- of our total GDP being eaten up by a deficit, we have seen foreign reserves, U.S. dollar in Asia alone tripling over the last three years and huge number of claims against U.S. assets being held in Asia and Europe around the world, and we have no control over it whatsoever, do we?
KELLY: No, I think we do have some control over it. What's really going on is the rest of the world is buying our financial assets and we're buying their stuff. The reason for that is because the dollar has been too high for too long and frankly world economic growth has been too slow. This year we should see the strongest world economic growth in over 25 years and that, I think, will help turn the tide here.
DOBBS: David, we look forward to, now that we have that rate and date from you, that forecast, we look forward to talking to you. And we certainly hope you're correct. David Kelly, thank you very much.
When we continue -- Wal-mart, tonight, sidestepping a local California government and leaving a major decision up to the residents of the community. And a flyover in the nation's capital. Surprising some of the area residents as the D.C. Air National Guard kicks off its campaign to recruit. That story just ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Residents of Inglewood, California, are voting today on whether to approve the construction of a new shopping development dominated by Wal-mart. The world's biggest retailer says the people, not the city council, should be deciding whether they want a new Wal- mart in their community. But opponents trying to defeat the ballot measure says Wal-mart is trying to bypass both the local government and labor unions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS (voice-over): After the Inglewood city council rejected Wal-mart's plans to create a Super Center, a Sam's Club and some national chain restaurants on a 60-acre lot, Wal-mart collected 10,000 signatures and forced today's ballot measure.
BOB MCADAM, WAL-MART: This is not in any kind of end run. It's just the normal process of letting voters decide.
DOBBS: If the majority votes in favor of the Wal-mart proposal, the development goes ahead. Without city studies about traffic patterns, without economic and environmental impact studies or any public hearings. Inglewood's mayor supports the Wal-mart proposal.
MAYOR ROOSEVELT DORN, INGLEWOOD, CALIFORNIA: This development will bring from 3 to $5 million a year to -- in sales tax. It will also bring from 1,000 to 1,500 jobs, which the city of Inglewood desperately needs.
DOBBS: Assemblyman Jerome Horseman disagrees.
JEROME HORTON, CA STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: The initiative bypasses the citizens, it bypasses the local government and that's the intent of the initiative.
DOBBS: The issue has attracted high-profile demonstrators.
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: Wal-mart has disrespected Inglewood.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, PUSH: It is, in fact, cheap product and then cheap wages and cheap benefits. Small businesses cannot survive the onslaught of a Wal-mart.
DOBBS: Wal-mart's employees are nonunion. The retailing giant sells groceries and will be competing with some local supermarkets that recently settled a four-month long labor strike.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Wal-mart has used the tactic before in California. In Contra Costa County, near San Francisco, voters there passed an initiative to allow a Super Center to open. The company lost, however, a similar vote for an additional Wal-mart store to open in San Marcos, a suburb of San Diego.
A reminder now check our Web site for the complete list of more than 500 companies that we've now confirmed to be exporting America at CNN.com/lou. When we continue, the defenders of the U.S. capital needed special permission to kick off their recruitment campaign. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Results now of tonight's poll question -- 44 percent of you say President Bush should keep the June 30 turnover deadline for Iraq even if Iraq's government and security forces aren't fully prepared to take power. 56 percent of you do not.
Finally tonight -- a startling sight in the skies over Washington, D.C. Planes flying through the no-fly zone over the Capitol Hill and the National Mall today. The flight intended to draw great attention. The D.C. Air National Guard received special permission from the FAA to fly over Capitol Hill as part of its new recruitment campaign. Two f-16s, a military version 737 and a Gulfstream jet flying in formation from Andrews Air Force Base over the capital.
That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow, outsourcing is good for America according to former Bush economic adviser Glenn Hubbard. He will be our guest. An economic adviser to Senator Kerry, Roger Altman says companies should not be rewarded for outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. He will also be our guest here. Please join us. For all of us good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
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Aired April 6, 2004 - 18:00 ET
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, a new offensive in Iraq, U.S. Marines pushing into Fallujah, while coalition forces fight insurgents in Baghdad and across southern Iraq. We'll have a live report from Baghdad. And the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Duncan Hunter, joins us.
Fighting for votes with promises of jobs. President Bush and Senator Kerry unveil their new plans to help millions of Americans find work.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want people to be prepared for the 21st century.
DOBBS: Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe joins us.
In "Exporting America" tonight, a shocking new report on the number of laid-off American workers who are forced to train their foreign replacements.
And the battle between Border Patrol agents and illegal alien and drug smugglers is growing more bloody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's not the most violent place on the Southern Arizona, it sure is close.
DOBBS: We'll have a special report today tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, April 6. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, U.S. Marines are engaged in an intense firefight with Iraqi insurgents in the Sunni town of Ramadi. Initial reports from the Ramadi battlefield say as many as a dozen U.S. Marines have been killed.
CNN's Walt Rodgers is live in Baghdad with the story.
Walt, what is the latest you have for us on the attack Ramadi? WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, several hours ago, a band of Iraqi insurgents, upwards of 100, forced their way at gunpoint into a number of government buildings in Ramadi. Ramadi is an Iraqi town about 60 miles west of Baghdad. It's in the heart of the so-called Sunni Triangle. This is where the remnants of Saddam's army have formed, reformed.
This is where much of the opposition over the course of the last year to the American occupation has taken place. There was some very severe fighting. This is the U.S. Marines' area of responsibility. We're told upwards of 12 U.S. Marines have died trying to retake those Iraqi government buildings in Ramadi, fighting the insurgents. We're told at least a dozen more Marines were injured. Again, the situation's very, very fluid at this point.
What we are also told, however, is that this is not a major military offensive, something short of that. It would be a stretch, according to one military source, to call this a major offensive. Still, it is the Sunnis continuing their struggle against the American occupation in an area which has seen trouble almost since the statute of Saddam fell a year ago, April 9 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Walt, if this is not a major offensive with violence and these deadly attacks against U.S. Marines being reported from Ramadi tonight, all across southern Iraq, incidents in Baghdad as well, what in the world should we call it?
RODGERS: Well, I'm talking about Ramadi. This is one incident, one town. And what you have is, you're quite correct, a very substantial uprising all across Iraq. And what's interesting is that you have this revolt in Ramadi by about 100 insurgents there. You have the incidents in Fallujah, where the Marines are trying to move in not very far Ramadi.
But even more threatening to the United States is what you're seeing is this armed Shiite revolt across the country. We've seen very bloody fighting in Baghdad itself. We've heard machine guns just a few hours ago here. More Iraqis are dying there. More soldiers engaged in battle there. The coalition forces, the British coalition forces in Amara are fighting the Shiite revolt.
In Nasiriyah, the Italian coalition forces are fighting this. And in Kut, the Ukrainian coalition forces are fighting this. So there is a very substantial revolt across this country, despite the assurance of the chief U.S. administrator here, Paul Bremer, that everything is under control. It's not the kind of control I think the White House would like to see -- Lou.
DOBBS: Walt, thank you very much -- Walt Rodgers reporting live from Baghdad.
As Walt reported, the attack tonight comes amid rising violence between insurgents and coalition troops throughout Iraq. Marines in Fallujah today pushed into the chaotic city from several directions. They met with heavy fire from assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades. The U.S. military said five were killed in the al-Anbar province, where Fallujah is located.
Closer to Baghdad, U.S. forces clashed with militants tied to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Three American soldiers were killed in that engagement. Al-Sadr is believed to be in Najaf tonight. That city located to the southwest of Baghdad. He's holed up in a mosque there. Hundreds of militants defending him have taken control of the city's police and religious sites.
Joining me now, CNN Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
Jamie, what is the latest you can tell us about this most recent attack and the heavy casualties in Ramadi?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not clear if that firefight is still ongoing or whether the action has died down at this point.
But what clear is that this was a major attack, a deadly attack, against U.S. Marines who we were told were occupying a position near the governor's palace in al-Ramadi, a Sunni stronghold just west of Baghdad and west of Fallujah where that U.S. Marine offensive is going on to try to pacify that city. We are told that dozens of Iraqis attacked the Marine position. Again, as many as 12 Marines killed. Some number greater than that were also wounded. We're told less than two dozen, but more than a dozen Marines also wounded in that operation.
And they inflicted heavy casualties as well on the opposition forces, the anti-U.S. forces, but no specific numbers from the Pentagon. This, the Pentagon believes, that they're dealing with in this case former regime elements, Baathist sympathizers, the same sort of folks that are putting up resistance in Fallujah. They don't believe at this point that this is under the influence of the radical Muslim cleric al-Sadr, who incited violence against the U.S. over the weekend.
And as Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said earlier today, Lou, he said, there are going to be some good days and some bad days in Iraq. Clearly, from the U.S. perspective, this was a bad day -- Lou.
DOBBS: The secretary of defense using that expression frequently over the course of the past year, good days and bad days. With this number of Americans dying today in Iraq, what is the Pentagon's best judgment about what is going on, because we have, in the Sunni Triangle, we know at least 12 American Marines have died today? Across Southern Iraq more attacks from the Shiite leader in southern Iraq. This seems to be coordinated but the offensive being carried out by Shia and Sunnis.
MCINTYRE: I think the big question is, is the Pentagon in some sort of denial when they insist, and they are insisting, that these are isolated incidents, that they believe they can bring this under control, that they don't need to send more troops in at this time? That's the optimistic spin that you get on this here at the Pentagon from officials, both civilian and military. And the real question is, as you watch these events, and, of course, we don't have the full perspective of everything that's going on in the country, but it certainly doesn't look like things are going well. It does look like things are getting out of control. So, you know, time will tell, I guess, if their assessment is correct. But we're continuing to get fairly moderate upbeat assessments from the Pentagon about how they think things are going to go from here. Meanwhile, the reports from the battlefield are not good.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
A new audiotape purportedly from senior al Qaeda operative Musab al-Zarqawi says a radical Islamist terrorist is stepping up attacks on Americans in Iraq. The audiotape was played on an is Islamist Web site and claimed responsibility for several attacks in Iraq, including the August bombing at the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad.
The audiotapes come as a Jordanian court today sentenced al- Zarqawi to death for the 2002 killing of the U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley. Al-Zarqawi and seven other al Qaeda members were convicted in that killing.
The rising violence in Iraq comes less than three months before the expected transfer of sovereignty. A United Nations team is working to put together an Iraqi government to take power on the 30th of June. But many questions, many profound questions, remain about the transfer of power, as Kitty Pilgrim now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The deadline is firm. The day after June 30, Iraq will have its sovereignty. But who will be in charge?
DAN SENOR, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: I think there is somehow this view that there's going to be this dramatic change after June 30, as though the lights will be switched off and we will depart. And that is simply not the case.
PILGRIM: More than 100,000 U.S. troops will still be patrolling the country. And the U.S. will be distributing billions of dollars in reconstruction funds over many years. And the biggest U.S. Embassy in the world will employ thousands. Government, however, will be up to the Iraqis. What kind of government? That responsibility rests on a U.N. team led by Lakhdar Brahimi.
PAUL BREMER, U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: The secretary general of the U.N.'s special representative has been now here five days. He's conducting those consultations, as we are, and we are determining the size and shape of the interim government.
PILGRIM: Will the current Iraqi Governing Council be simply expanded until elections can be held?
NOAH FELDMAN, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Until there's security on the ground, elections can't really be held. So the honest truth is that no one can know for sure when we're going to hold elections unless we have got some modicum of security.
PILGRIM: There has been some progress towards the transfer of power, including the signing of the interim constitution. Iraqi security forces have taken over patrols in some areas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the United States is putting its hope in U.N. Enjoy Lakhdar Brahimi. It's up to him to pull together the disparate Iraqi groups to decide what kind of government they want -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the security of Iraq, which is absent tonight certainly, is still the responsibility of the U.S. government.
PILGRIM: It is.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Kitty -- Kitty Pilgrim.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair will travel to the United States to the White House next week to meet with President Bush. Administration sources tell us the trip was planned weeks ago before this recent rise in violence in Iraq. Iraq and the planned June 30 handover of sovereignty will be a major focus we're told between the talks between President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. They will also be discussing progress in Afghanistan and the latest in the Middle East.
Still ahead here tonight, we'll have the latest from the Pentagon on the major offensive against Marines tonight in Ramadi. Also, some U.S. lawmakers are among those now questioning whether Iraq is ready for the June 30 handover. House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter is not among them. He will join us with his thoughts on the timeline, the security of American service men and women in Iraq.
Also, Senator John Kerry prepares to release his bold new ideas for creating millions of jobs in this country. Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe is our guest.
And a shocking report on the number of American companies avoiding federal income taxes. We'll have that special report coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Bush administration has just released a two-sentence statement reacting to this latest violence in Iraq, the attacks tonight against U.S. Marines in Ramadi.
A White House spokesman said -- quote -- "This administration remains committed to finishing the job in Iraq. It is very clear from what the general and commanders have said that the United States will respond in the time and fashion of our choosing. The president is at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. He's being briefed on all developments out of Iraq." Joining me now is Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. He is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and joins us tonight from San Diego.
Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: This is terrible news out of Iraq tonight, more than -- more than a dozen U.S. Marines have been wounded, as many as 24 in these initial reports from the battlefield in Ramadi, 12 Marines killed. What first your reaction to this wave of violence that seems to be sweeping across much of Iraq?
HUNTER: Well, first, Lou, obviously we're in a major -- in a series of firefights across Iraq right now, and what we have to do is -- and I'm sure the commanders on the ground are doing -- is button down, stay in good, solid positions, and weather this assault that's being made in a number of areas of operation.
So right now, we simply have to hang in there, be tough. And I'm sure that the commanders who are on the ground right now, most of whom have a great deal of battlefield experience, are doing just that. And one good thing is that we haven't rotated the 1st Armored Division out of the Sunni Triangle. As you know, the 1st Cavalry Division has come in. They were to take the place of the 1st Armored Division, which was going to leave. So right now, you have got an extra heavy division in the center of the Sunni Triangle.
And I think that's going to be a very important element here.
DOBBS: Your reaction to the White House statement, two sentences, saying that they're satisfied that commanders in Iraq will react in a time and place of their choosing? This is language, Mr. Chairman, we've heard from this administration, from this Pentagon for the past year, since the war in Iraq began.
HUNTER: Well, Lou, I think, first, and I'm watching this and working on a daily basis, as are all members of Congress and members of the Armed Services Committee especially, the -- all you can say when you're in the middle of a firefight as a political leader back here in the states is, hang in there and our people on the ground and our leadership on the ground on the battlefield are in charge of this operation and they have to see it through.
At this point, there's no time to make an analysis that would indicate a political change while you're in the middle of a firefight. So that's a very short statement of resolve. Simply put, we do have to hang tough and be very steady. And our people on the ground there and our leadership at the battalion level and the company level hopefully will button their people down and hold on this wave of assaults throughout the country.
DOBBS: Congressman...
HUNTER: They have to do that. DOBBS: Congressman, I know for a fact that you and I share an extraordinary confidence in our fighting men and women in Iraq. And that isn't really what I was talking about. They deserve our support. They have our support and our confidence.
But the issue of what is going on in Iraq, strategically in terms of the mission, the June 30 handover against what is now an almost countrywide insurgency and attacks, fatal attacks, on U.S. force there a year after -- almost a year after the end of major combat operations, does this give you considerable pause about the intelligence, the appropriateness of handing over power on June 30?
HUNTER: Well, with respect to whether we're going to hand over the sovereignty, that's not the security apparatus. That's simply the sovereignty. And that may be simply an expansion of this governing council that's in place right now.
I think, Lou, that if we did this handoff next year or the year after that, you're going to see an upsurge in violence by people that don't want to see the sovereignty handed over. They don't want to see a successful transfer. So if we do it now, we're going to have violence prestaging that handover. And if we do it a year from now, I think we'll have violence prestaging the handover.
I think it's a mistake for us as political leaders right now to indicate that somehow this wave of violence -- and as you know the people that are behind it like the cleric who has inspired this Mahdi army, would like nothing better than to have their people come in and brief them the next day to the effect that the Americans -- after we hit them yesterday, the Americans have now changed their positions.
One other thing that I think is important, Lou, is this. At some point, you have got to put some of this burden of running this country on the leadership that we've put in place, that we've grown from the grassroots level. And I think now is a good time to put it on them. If they can't hang on to it, now, if they're not capable of doing that, I don't think they're going to be able do it a year from now, two years from now, three years from now.
You have to start letting them assume some of that burden or they're not going to develop enough strength to endure.
DOBBS: Certainly a test of strength is under way, and if the insurgents, Sunni, Shia, al Qaeda perhaps, as well attacking U.S. forces in Iraq, have that confidence and that wherewithal, it doesn't require much imagination to think they would have no trouble of attacking an interim, incipient government that would be receiving that power on June 30.
But let me ask you about General Abizaid, the CENTCOM commander, who has now called upon his commanders in the field for recommendations, options, as he put it, to bring in reinforcements and to provide security first for U.S. forces in Iraq, and then for the Iraqi people. Your reaction?
HUNTER: Yes. Well, first, my recommendation to SECDEF -- and I just sent it off about 30 minutes ago -- and they may already be doing this -- but my recommendation to Don Rumsfeld is to hang on to that 1st Armored Division that's right now set in the center of the Sunni Triangle that was going to be coming back to the United States. That division is there. It's a heavy division. And you have the 1st Cav now in the center of the triangle, so that the best thing to do right now is hang on to the 1st Armored.
Don't move them back in the rotation. I'm sure the rotation and all the travel that's inherent in that rotation has been suspended during the series of firefights. So don't make the rotation. Keep the 1st Armored division in the center of the Sunni Triangle. And any other units that we're rotating out, keep them in place.
Right now, we actually have a lot of heavy forces in place. In the triangle, you have got the 1st Cav, you've got the 1st Armored Division, you've got obviously the 1st Marine Division to the west, and you've got the 1st Infantry Division that has taken the place of the 4th. The 4th has come back already. But the 1st Armored hasn't come back. I think we should keep them there. The's a heavy division in place. And that's the best way to have more people on the ground right now.
DOBBS: Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld has said that he would bring reinforcements if his commanders in Iraq request them. Does that strike you as the stuff of real leadership be, waiting for his subordinates? I'm sorry, Congressman.
HUNTER: Yes, you're going to have to -- you have to lead with that question again. My earpiece fell out, Lou. I'm sorry.
DOBBS: Well, I apologize for that. Well, yes, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said he would be willing to bring reinforcements and to bolster U.S. forces in Iraq if his commanders in the field request them. Does that strike you as the sort of leadership that is needed right now? Shouldn't that assessment be made and be made quickly to provide for the security of our troops?
HUNTER: Well, as I said, right now, you've got the extra division in Iraq and so I'm sure they're being used in this present firefight. So the secretary has the option of keeping them there, and I think that's -- I hope that that's what's going to happen.
But this secretary has always relied heavily, ever since the days of Tommy Franks and the invasion, has relied heavily on his leadership in theater. And to this date, that's worked well. I think that General Abizaid is going to be candid in -- with respect to his requests for more troops if he thinks he needs them. But, once again, he has got that heavy division in place right now. The best way it handle this is, don't let them go, keep them in place, keep them working with the 1st Cavalry Division.
DOBBS: Congressman Duncan Hunter, thanks for being with us, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question: Do you believe President Bush should keep the June 30 turnover deadline for Iraq, even if Iraq's government and security forces aren't fully prepared to take power, yes or no? Please cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.
Coming up next, as many as a dozen American Marines have been killed in Iraq tonight, up to two dozen wounded. We'll have a live report for you from the Pentagon for the very latest on the attacks in Ramadi.
Also ahead, average Americans are handing over hard-earned pay in income taxes while mighty corporations struggling to compete globally haven't been paying taxes at all. We'll have that report.
And a violent struggle along our nation's "Broken Borders," illegal aliens stepping up their measures and the Border Patrol fighting back.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: If you're paying your income taxes, you're different than most corporations in this country. According to a disturbing new report from the investigative arm of Congress, more than half of all American corporations didn't pay any federal income tax from 1996 to 2000.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Leona Helmsley said only the little people pay taxes. Years later, she's still got a point. A new report from Congress shows that 63 percent of U.S. corporations paid no federal income tax in the year 2000. Seventy- three percent of foreign companies operating in the U.S. paid nothing as well.
Senator Byron Dorgan requested the study from the investigative different arm of Congress.
SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: This GAO report says that we've got a couple different kinds of taxpayers, little folks that pay their taxes and big enterprises, giant enterprises, that do a lot of business, make a lot of money and pay nothing. I think that's shameful.
VILES: Through tax shelters, write-offs, creative accounting and many, many friendships in Washington, corporate America has reduced its tax burden over the years. In the 1950s, corporate income taxes made up a third of all federal revenues, now just one-fourteenth. Income taxes for individuals account for roughly half.
The big tax increase is in what's collected for Social Security and Medicare. When it comes to lobbying Congress, nobody does it better than big business.
STEVEN WEISS, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: They spend a lot of their time trying to insert tax cuts into bills that otherwise have nothing to do with taxes. It's safe to say that business interests wake up every morning in Washington hoping to reduce taxes in some form or fashion.
VILES: If most big businesses aren't paying taxes, well, who is? Remember that most small businesses don't have armies of accountants or lobbyists and many pay income taxes at the individual rate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Nation's largest business lobby, the Chamber of Commerce, dismissed this report as misleading, arguing that many of those companies that are not paying taxes are not making a profit. It is true that a fraction of companies in this country, less than 1 percent, do pay well over 90 percent of all the corporate taxes checked collected -- Lou.
DOBBS: Amazing report and amazing statistic, especially in the argument that -- amongst the arguments in international competitiveness that corporate America needs lower taxes.
VILES: Right. If anything, that's the discussion, is, how can we lower the corporate tax rate and still get more money out of corporate America?
DOBBS: Peter Viles, thank you, sir.
Increasing violence along our nation's border with Mexico, as smugglers of drugs and illegal aliens are becoming vicious. Tonight, we take a look at the dangerous struggle between those smugglers and the U.S. Border Patrol.
Casey Wian reports from Nogales, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They call it Hamburger Hill, peaceful during the day, but after dark...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's not the most violent place on the Southern Arizona, it sure is close.
WIAN: It's a major smuggling route for drugs and illegal aliens where Border Patrol agents are regularly assaulted by rock-throwing Mexicans. Border Patrol vehicles here are caged to deflect rocks and agents now use modified paintball guns that shoot pepper powder at rock throwers.
NATHAN HILLIARD, BORDER PATROL AGENT: Rocks start coming over the fence, we can shoot this pepper ball. It defends -- it disperses pepper powder down on them.
WIAN: Within seconds of our arrival, agents capture five suspected illegal aliens who crossed over Hamburger Hill headed to New York. They don't all go so peacefully.
Last month outside this detention facility, an alien tried to grab an agent's gun. Both were shot. The agent is recovering, the alien charged with assault on a federal officer.
ANDY ADAME, BORDER PATROL SUPERVISOR: We have seen an increase in violence along the boarder. Our agents have been fired upon more, they've assaulted them with rocks. They've actually, you know, try to run them over than more in the past.
WIAN: In Douglas, run-ins with smugglers totalled these four vehicles in just one week.
LEE MORGAN, ICE AGENT-IN-CHARGE: Dope smugglers and human traffickers are probably the meanest, cruelest criminals on the border or in the United States. They're unparalleled in their viciousness.
WIAN: The day before we arrived agents seized this 1,700 pound marijuana load. Human smugglers are operating over the same routes as drug smugglers. The boarder patrol is responding with more agents and monitoring devices so alien smugglers are bringing larger groups across knowing some will get away. We accompanied the border patrol on two pursuits, the first two suspected drug mules.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully we'll sandwich them them.
WIAN: But darkness and rough terrain helped them escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing that may are have helped us in this situation is to have additional agents, 10 guys definitely going to do a better job of searching for someone than three guys.
WIAN: Later we pursued a group of 60 illegal aliens, wait helicopter, only a dozen were caught. These men walked three days and have no food or water. Border crossers are regularly victimized by kidnappers and bandits. But that's not the reason this man says he won't cross again. He says he paid $3,000 to cross, about double the going rate a year ago.
Casey Wian, CNN, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In broken borders tonight, on the same day that a Miami herald Zogby poll shows Hispanic agree with Democrats on political issues, Florida's Governor Jeb Bush, announced his support of a bill in Florida that would give driver's licenses to illegal aliens who undergo screening. Governor Bush stressed he is not encouraging more illegal immigration is not this country but he said once here, they shouldn't be ignored. He says the legislation has enough safeguards to ensure those illegal aliens issued licenses aren't terrorists.
"Tonight's thought" on immigration. "The great social adventure of America is no longer the conquest of the wilderness, but the absorption of 50 different peoples." Those the words of journalist, Walter Lippmann. When we continue, Marines under attack in Iraq. Insurgents launched a large-scale attack against U.S. Marines in Ramadi, and initial reports have 12 U.S. Marines killed in that action. The latest from for you.
And deficits and taxes, President Bush and Senator Kerry each say they have a plan for the economy and jobs. Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe is my guest.
And economist David Kelly said capitalism is cruel, millions out of work, but foreign trade isn't the reason and outsourcing will ultimately be positive. He is also our guest tonight. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now with more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Our top story tonight, U.S. Marines under attack in the Iraqi town of Ramadi. As many as 12 Marines have been killed.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us with the very latest -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It's still not clear if this action is completely over, but is what clear, one of the deadly engagements for U.S. Marines since the major combat phase. As you said as many as 12 Marines killed. Perhaps as many as 20 injured in this attack. And I'm told that dozens of the attacking anti-U.S. Iraqis were also killed in this firefight, which was intense and went on for hours. It took place at a Marine position near the governor's mansion in Ar Ramadi, a town in the middle of the Sunni triangle, the area where anti-U.S. sentiment is among the highest among the former Ba'athist and sympathizers with the former regime. The U.S. is still not clear who it was dealing with, but it believes it was former regime elements -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, this has got to be troubling to CENTCOM to the administration, the Pentagon.
Ramadi, Fallujah, effectively not now under U.S. control or coalition control?
MCINTYRE: Well, I'm not in the position to make that call. They may have re-established control and retake somebody of those buildings that were attacked today, but clearly the U.S. Has got to be taking another look at its security situation and what it needs to protect its forces. Those Marines who apparently were overrun by insurgents were clearly not in a position to adequately defend themselves or adequately called in back up power fast enough to prevent these heavy casualties.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre our senior Pentagon correspondent. President Bush and Senator Kerry both focusing on economics on the campaign trail today. President Bush focused on this plan to create jobs through tax cuts and job training. President Bush speaking in Arkansas where the unemployment rate is 9.1 percent. In Cincinnati, Democrat John Kerry criticized the president on a broad range of issues including the deficit, jobs and tax cuts. Senator Kerry promised to create 10 million new jobs over four years if elected.
Economics, of course, only one of the issues in this election. Obviously a critically important one. It is just one of the topics tonight for my next guest, Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
Good to have you with us.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CHAIRMAN, DNC: Hey Lou, how are you?
DOBBS: I am outstanding and I would ask first if -- how you believe your candidate is doing at this point?
MCAULIFFE: Well, John Kerry's doing exceptionally well. If you look at the polling data, ahead in several polls. You saw the Pugh poll come out today, came out today that showed George Bush's approval rating was 43 percent. He's not creating jobs, 2.6 million people have lost their job, Lou, since George Bush became president. So he's got a real credibility problem. Health care, education, jobless a mess on our hands in Iraq. John Kerry is out there with a plan to create 10 million jobs. He's going to give a major speech tomorrow on how we need to deal obviously with these deficits and get us back in surplus spending. So I'm very encouraged, It's 210 days away, but I'm very encouraged about where we are. People are very excited, coming out in record numbers. The party's in the best shape we've been in.
DOBBS: The fact is that, 308,000 jobs created in March, we're looking at the -- at according to the latest numbers, the best in terms of layoffs and almost nine months. Things are looking strong in a certain direction for the employment situation.
Are you heartened by that fact?
MCAULIFFE: Listen, we're encouraged any time someone gets a job in this country. But we need to look at the broader perspective. 514,000 people just gave up looking for work in the month of March. So as they say, 300,000 jobs created, 500,000 people just left the job front. As you know, George Bush promised us with his tax cuts that he would create 5.1 million jobs. He has lost 2.6 million jobs. That is a 7.7 million job change in what he promised Americans. So, you know, we've had 43 bad months of economic growth. We have one month with 300,000 jobs. We're excited about those 300,000 people, but we're also concerned about the 500,000 people who just left the job market. And to the millions of people who now, you know, have exhausted their unemployment benefits looking for work and can't find it.
DOBBS: Turning for the issue of a running mate for Senator Kerry. Considerable focus remains on Senator John McCain a long-time friend of Senator Kerry.
What are your thoughts?
MCAULIFFE: Well, I clearly don't know what senator Kerry's going to do but I'll tell you this. I thought it was spectacular that John McCain, when they went after John Kerry as the issues of patriotism, John McCain, a fellow war hero with Senator Kerry, stood up and said he's not going to stand by and allow them to attack John Kerry's patriotism. So my hat's off to Senator McCain for standing and doing the right thing, and that's what this campaign ought to be about. We're not going to stand by and allowed them to distort John Kerry's record. We're going to fight aggressively. But John McCain did the right thing, and I'll leave it up to Senator Kerry, of whom he thinks would be the best running mate for him.
DOBBS: Well, what do you think? Do you think Senator McCain would be a sure-fire bet on the ticket?
MCAULIFFE: Well, I don't know who would be sure-fire. The good news for the Democratic Party, Lou, is we have an absolute wealth of candidates to look forward to. This is about winning electoral college votes. Right now, as you know, we have about 100 electoral votes more than George Bush does, if you look at the polling data around the target states and the states that we now have solidly in our column. We're in very good shape. It's going to come down to who's going to help us get 270 electoral votes.
Let us look at everybody. Everybody ought to be on the table. Ultimately, John Kerry is going to have to decide, if anything ever happened to him, who would be the best person to step in his shoes and become president of this country.
All of our candidates, I would love to see in a debate with Dick Cheney and let Vice President Cheney explain all the issues about his behavior, the administration's behavior, about the energy task force, the high gas prices, all the issues around Halliburton and everything else. So, you know, this is going to be a spirited campaign. And John Kerry is out there. Tomorrow, a major speech about getting us back into a surplus situation, 10 million new jobs created. That's what Americans want to hear from us, Lou.
DOBBS: Terry, Senator McCain called the Democrats a fine party. Do you feel the same way about the Republicans?
MCAULIFFE: Sure. I think they're a fine party. This is democracy. You know, we're all out there trying to get our message out. A lot of great people in the Republican Party. Ultimately, what Americans want us to talk about, Lou, is who is going to do the best job of creating jobs in this country. As I said, George Bush has a 7.7 million shift in where he promised us we would be today. He's not done what he said he would do on education or health care, and as you know, we have a mess on our hands in Iraq.
DOBBS: Terry, I know you have got to be recovering from your disappoint that Ralph Nader was unable in the state of Oregon secure enough signatures. Have you recovered at this point? MCAULIFFE: I've recovered. Let's make sure, as we go forward, that, you know, he has the same issues going forward. Listen, Ralph Nader doesn't want, you know, his legacy to be that he got George Bush eight years. I have spoken to Ralph Nader several times. He has told me personally that George Bush is the worst president in modern history. He wants to do anything that he can to help us beat George Bush. He said, Terry, I want to beat him more than you do. Now, Lou, I don't -- I appreciate the sentiment. Probably not true. But I know and feel that at the end of the day Ralph Nader is going to do the right thing, he's going to get out of this race and he's going to support John Kerry, because everything that John Kerry's fighting for is what Ralph Nader cares about.
DOBBS: Terry McAuliffe, thank you very much for being with us.
MCAULIFFE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, exporting America, a practice becoming more widespread for American workers: Training their foreign replacements. We'll tell you about a revealing new study on the issue next.
And voters in California to decide whether they want the world's largest retailer in their community. We'll have that story for you as we continue here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest suggests that outsourcing American jobs is a positive, as is free trade, despite a looming, looming deficit, employees being asked by their employers as well to train cheaper foreign workers, who ultimately take their jobs for much less pay. Tonight for the first time, a new study reveals just how widespread that practice has become. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Natasha Humphries is an unemployed software engineer from California. Six months ago, she was laid off from her job after training her Indian replacement.
NATASHA HUMPHRIES, OUTSOURCED WORKER: Basically, their strategy was to keep our nose to the grind so we couldn't keep an eye on the axe looming above our heads.
SYLVESTER: Same story for Myra Bronstein (ph). She trained her replacement, then her company booted her.
A new survey by the Washington Alliance of Technology Workers found 23 percent of technology workers said their company had shifted jobs overseas. Seventeen percent said they had personally lost their job or knew someone who lost their job after training a foreign worker. And 81 percent said they supported restricting the H1b visa program which allows companies to bring foreign workers to the United States. MARCUS COURTNEY, PRESIDENT, WASHTECH: What they're being told is that if you want to see a severance package or you want an additional six weeks of work, they strongly encourage you to train, you know, your foreign replacements. It's really almost coercion what companies are doing to get workers to do this.
SYLVESTER: A bill in Congress would require companies to disclose if they're outsourcing work overseas. Legislation in Washington state would mandate employers give their workers advanced notice before replacement training begins.
ZACH HUDGINS, WASHINGTON HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: As we move into a more global economy, we need to set standards, we need to make sure that people here at home are treated properly.
SYLVESTER: But technology companies say the government should not tie their hands.
HARRIS MILLER, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: What's important is that we not try to dictate to companies how they run their labor policies in this country. Because what that does is it stifles economic innovation and creativity.
SYLVESTER: The technology industry says job retraining is the answer. But the laid off workers fear no job is safe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The survey found that technology workers are quite a political force. Nine out of 10 of those surveyed ready registered to vote; 41 percent are Republicans, 26 percent Democrats, and 32 percent call themselves independent -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
My next guest says free trade will ultimately benefit American workers and the economy. David Kelly, economic adviser with Putnam Investments joining us tonight from Boston. Good to have you with us.
DAVID KELLY, ECONOMIC ADVISER, PUTNAM INVESTMENTS: Glad to be here.
DOBBS: You look like a David, if I may say. The fact of the matter is, we're looking at a half trillion dollar trade deficit, we are looking at hundreds of thousands of jobs being outsourced, a huge, looming external trade debt, as you know. Where does this end?
KELLY: Well, let me correct something right at the start. I don't think that outsourcing is good. I don't believe that, and I actually have never said that. But I do think that free trade is good. And, in fact, I think we're actually turning the corner here. Our exports are growing faster than our imports at this stage, particularly over the last six months. We've seen the dollar come down. World growth is picking up. And I think we should fight the battle of international trade on offense rather than on defense. DOBBS: Well, I think that's good. I apologize. I was led to understand that you had embraced the idea of outsourcing as part of trade, and I personally am delighted to hear that is not the case.
But let's go to the issue of free trade as we style it here. If there is free trade, why in the world do we look at China, for example, which has a ratio of just about 10 to one the tariffs against our products as we do theirs, and call that free trade? There's no way that I see that it is a -- as this administration likes to call it -- a level playing field.
KELLY: Well, it isn't a level playing field, and I think the most important thing here to do is the simplest thing. We have got to bring our currency down. The dollar has come down a lot against the euro, but where we really need to bring it down is against the Chinese currency. But China is, you know, a relatively new part of the global economy in terms of its size. I think we do have time to open up Chinese markets, I think that's what we should do, but I think we should do it from the perspective of trying to build our exports rather than trying to restrict our imports.
DOBBS: I think that's a terrific idea as well. What would you export to China that could make up $124 billion annual deficit?
KELLY: Well, first of all, we can export more capital goods. We export $1 trillion worth of goods in this country. And China's got a huge demand for new equipment, new technology. We're very good at producing that. We just need to get the dollar down so -- to a level that allows us to compete in these markets. But I've got a lot of faith in American business to be able to do that.
DOBBS: Well, I've got great faith in American business and almost none at all in frankly in the politics right now of free trade because as I look at it, we are looking at a half trillion dollar -- better than 5 percent right now -- of our total GDP being eaten up by a deficit, we have seen foreign reserves, U.S. dollar in Asia alone tripling over the last three years and huge number of claims against U.S. assets being held in Asia and Europe around the world, and we have no control over it whatsoever, do we?
KELLY: No, I think we do have some control over it. What's really going on is the rest of the world is buying our financial assets and we're buying their stuff. The reason for that is because the dollar has been too high for too long and frankly world economic growth has been too slow. This year we should see the strongest world economic growth in over 25 years and that, I think, will help turn the tide here.
DOBBS: David, we look forward to, now that we have that rate and date from you, that forecast, we look forward to talking to you. And we certainly hope you're correct. David Kelly, thank you very much.
When we continue -- Wal-mart, tonight, sidestepping a local California government and leaving a major decision up to the residents of the community. And a flyover in the nation's capital. Surprising some of the area residents as the D.C. Air National Guard kicks off its campaign to recruit. That story just ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Residents of Inglewood, California, are voting today on whether to approve the construction of a new shopping development dominated by Wal-mart. The world's biggest retailer says the people, not the city council, should be deciding whether they want a new Wal- mart in their community. But opponents trying to defeat the ballot measure says Wal-mart is trying to bypass both the local government and labor unions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS (voice-over): After the Inglewood city council rejected Wal-mart's plans to create a Super Center, a Sam's Club and some national chain restaurants on a 60-acre lot, Wal-mart collected 10,000 signatures and forced today's ballot measure.
BOB MCADAM, WAL-MART: This is not in any kind of end run. It's just the normal process of letting voters decide.
DOBBS: If the majority votes in favor of the Wal-mart proposal, the development goes ahead. Without city studies about traffic patterns, without economic and environmental impact studies or any public hearings. Inglewood's mayor supports the Wal-mart proposal.
MAYOR ROOSEVELT DORN, INGLEWOOD, CALIFORNIA: This development will bring from 3 to $5 million a year to -- in sales tax. It will also bring from 1,000 to 1,500 jobs, which the city of Inglewood desperately needs.
DOBBS: Assemblyman Jerome Horseman disagrees.
JEROME HORTON, CA STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: The initiative bypasses the citizens, it bypasses the local government and that's the intent of the initiative.
DOBBS: The issue has attracted high-profile demonstrators.
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: Wal-mart has disrespected Inglewood.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, PUSH: It is, in fact, cheap product and then cheap wages and cheap benefits. Small businesses cannot survive the onslaught of a Wal-mart.
DOBBS: Wal-mart's employees are nonunion. The retailing giant sells groceries and will be competing with some local supermarkets that recently settled a four-month long labor strike.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Wal-mart has used the tactic before in California. In Contra Costa County, near San Francisco, voters there passed an initiative to allow a Super Center to open. The company lost, however, a similar vote for an additional Wal-mart store to open in San Marcos, a suburb of San Diego.
A reminder now check our Web site for the complete list of more than 500 companies that we've now confirmed to be exporting America at CNN.com/lou. When we continue, the defenders of the U.S. capital needed special permission to kick off their recruitment campaign. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Results now of tonight's poll question -- 44 percent of you say President Bush should keep the June 30 turnover deadline for Iraq even if Iraq's government and security forces aren't fully prepared to take power. 56 percent of you do not.
Finally tonight -- a startling sight in the skies over Washington, D.C. Planes flying through the no-fly zone over the Capitol Hill and the National Mall today. The flight intended to draw great attention. The D.C. Air National Guard received special permission from the FAA to fly over Capitol Hill as part of its new recruitment campaign. Two f-16s, a military version 737 and a Gulfstream jet flying in formation from Andrews Air Force Base over the capital.
That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow, outsourcing is good for America according to former Bush economic adviser Glenn Hubbard. He will be our guest. An economic adviser to Senator Kerry, Roger Altman says companies should not be rewarded for outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. He will also be our guest here. Please join us. For all of us good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
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