Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Rumsfeld Takes Responsibility for Abuse Scandal
Aired May 07, 2004 - 18:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: This concludes what has been an extraordinary day of testimony by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to both the House Armed Services Committee. You're looking at Chairman Congressman Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
Earlier, Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon officials appearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Secretary Rumsfeld spent more than six hours today on Capitol Hill. In his testimony, the secretary took full responsibility for the prisoner abuse scandal. Rumsfeld said he is accountable, and Rumsfeld apologized to the victims.
But the defense secretary also said he has no intention of resigning.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said he would resign, quote, "in a minute" if he felt he couldn't be effective. But clearly, that's not his opinion.
He mounted a vigorous defense of his actions, even while apologizing to the victims.
Rumsfeld's testimony came, as you said, a marathon session in which he both was somewhat contrite and also very aggressive in defending the way the Pentagon has handled the case and how the -- how they announced it to the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: So to those Iraqis who were mistreated by members of the U.S. armed forces, I offer my deepest apology. It was inconsistent with the values of our nation. It was inconsistent with the teachings of the military to the men and women of the armed forces. And it was certainly fundamentally un- American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld admitted that he only saw the photographs for the first time last night, other than the ones that had been aired in an edited fashion in the news media. And he admitted -- admitted that it was a personal failure that he was sticking so closely to the rules of military evidence and that he didn't demand to see the pictures earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: If there's a failure, it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds, or however many there are of these things, that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done.
But I certainly never gave the president the -- a briefing with the impact that one would have had you seen the photographs, or the videos. I mean, let there be no doubt about that. He was just as blindsided as the Congress and me and everyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld said it was a mistake to adhere so closely to the rules that are designed to protect the rights of the accused.
He said he doesn't know how he would do it, but he said he needs to find a way that when something of this importance is going on, it doesn't get buried because of technical procedures involving the legal ramifications of the case -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, Secretary Rumsfeld also said there were videos and there were a lot more instances here. Your best assessment of that?
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, he says he hasn't even seen the videos, which are still apparently down at the U.S. Central Command in Florida. And as he said, he only saw the real pictures last night.
There's no intention of releasing those videos. And Rumsfeld admitted today that if more of the pictures and the videos got out, it would only make things worse, if you can imagine that.
But he's pledged that they will get to the bottom of it and that they will go up as far and high in the chain of command as they need to to make sure that they find out the real cause of this and to make sure it doesn't happen again.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, senior Pentagon correspondent. Thank you.
Sharp exchanges between some of the lawmakers today and Secretary Rumsfeld. At issue, not only the prisoner abuse scandal but Rumsfeld's failure to keep Congress informed.
Congressional correspondent Ed Henry has the report -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the political question hanging over both of these hearings was can the secretary survive? And the answer is, stay tuned literally and figuratively.
We have to stay tuned literally because, as Jamie was talking about, senators in both parties are now speculating about talking videos that are supposedly out there that could show much more heinous abuse, much worse than we've already seen in the photos that are out there.
And senators are also openly saying that there are many, many more photos that are yet to come out. And one senator who really verbalized that was Senator Lindsey Graham, a member of the committee.
Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's going to get worse. You're going to have more things to show people that will make people mad, more angry. So this is going to get worse.
And I was trying to tell the secretary, it's going to get worse before it gets better. Do you think you can handle this.
And he said he thought he could.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: And Lou -- and Lou, the bottom line is that there are two camps here. I've been talking to a lot of senators and staffers after the Senate hearing, trying to get a handle on the political situation.
There's one camp that's saying under the circumstances, under the intense, political pressure that Rumsfeld has been under, he actually did a reasonably good job, and they're also pointing out that it's very difficult to change defense secretaries in the middle of a war.
And they're also pointing out that no Republicans have called on him to resign. So that's keeping him alive at this point.
But others are saying that the drip, drip of this scandal, and if more comes out, it's going to be hard for Rumsfeld to stick around.
And one key thing to pay attention to. The Senate hearing, Senator Evan Bayh, Democrat of Indiana, had an unbelievable exchange with Rumsfeld in which Bayh asked him if resigning would make it better for the nation, put it behind him and make our troops safer, would you resign."
Senators in both parties were struck by the fact that Rumsfeld had a long pause and then finally said, "I don't know. Maybe." He, basically, said it's possible if he resigned the situation could get better. The fact that he was openly speculating about his own resignation, the possibility of a resignation is leading some senators to say he could very well do that.
But it's all speculation at this point. And there are two diverse camps right now. And basically, the question that was hanging over these hearings is still out there, Lou.
DOBBS: And Ed, I think it's fair to say, and please correct me if I've -- if I'm misconstruing this. But the secretary was invited to respond to a question. He wasn't speculating spontaneously on his own future or the possibility of resignation, correct?
HENRY: Well, there were actually two questions. What happened is Senator Lindsey Graham, who I'd mentioned, he had asked a question earlier, saying, "Have you thought about resigning?"
And actually the secretary responded very openly to the committee that he had been thinking about it. And he basically had been mulling, could this be a good thing or not? But they did not finish that line of questioning, because Graham's time ran out.
So then Evan Bayh, as I mentioned, came in, followed that line of questioning. And that's when that follow-up question came up.
And senators in both parties I've talked to after the hearing are saying they were very struck by the long pause from Rumsfeld after Bayh asked, "Would it be, you know -- if it's -- if you resigned and it was going to help the country would you do it?"
That long pause is leaving a lot of people wondering about what's in his head right now, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Ed Henry reporting from Capitol Hill.
Next, I'll be joined by former presidential adviser, David Gergen.
Also in Iraq, the enemy suffering heavy losses. U.S. troops kill 22 insurgents. We'll have a report for you.
And more details tonight about an American attorney linked to the Madrid train bombings that killed nearly 200 people and wounded 15 others -- 1,500 others.
And "Exporting America." Hard to believe, but the federal government is trying to prevent states from passing laws against the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: After being on Capitol Hill more than six hours today testifying before both the Senate and the House Armed Services Committee, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today took responsibility for the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq. He also apologized.
My guest tonight says decisive actions are needed to resolve this issue, and he says the United States needs to close down the Abu Ghraib prison because we have simply no business being there.
Joining me now, former presidential adviser, David Gergen.
David, good to have you with us. Let's get your assessment, first, of how the secretary of defense did.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: He did well. It was -- It was manful and brave to stand up. Finally somebody did and said, "I'm responsible here. I take -- I'm the person at the top of this chain within the Defense Department." He apologized.
And I think he also faced very squarely the reality that he may be forced out. He clearly does not want to be forced out.
But I'll tell you one thing, Lou. I do think this. Even as he previews that this is likely to get worse: we have videos out there; there are more pictures.
I've known Don Rumsfeld now for some 30 years. I do believe that he is, first and foremost, a patriot who believes very strongly in the mission here and that if he does believe it's in the best interest of the Pentagon and of the country for him to step aside, he will do that. He will take -- he will take the arrow and leave. I think he's that type of fellow.
I think right now we're in a wait and see period. It strikes me that it was good news for him today, that no Republican has bolted. No Republican has said he ought to step down.
At the same time, he had to be sobered by the fact that many Republicans in the hallways in the Senate after the testimony were, basically, taking a let's wait and see how much there is out there before we make a final decision on this.
I think he's safe tonight. I think we're in a wait and see situation. I also think this is a man who's brave and patriotic and will leave if he thinks that's in the best interest of the country.
DOBBS: I was struck by a number of the congressmen and senators who seemed to be less interested in pursuing a line of question than posturing for themselves or in the interests of the secretary.
We're at war. We have men and women in uniform in combat in Iraq. It just struck me that some were less than serious about getting to the bottom of the question, "What in the world happened and who's responsible?"
GERGEN: I'm so glad you said that. The frustration today was that we had many speeches coming from some of the senators, either pro or con. Indeed, it happened in the House, too, as opposed to really getting to it.
There were members I thought were really very good in pursuing the truth. And one was Senator McCain on the Republican side and the other was Senator Ben Nelson on the -- from Florida, Democratic side. They at least were trying to "Let's get our facts out before we start posturing."
But there was a lot of posturing.
DOBBS: And Senator Nelson was the first, as far as I know, to recommend leveling Abu Ghraib Prison to which today Secretary Rumsfeld acknowledged it might not be a bad idea, I believe was the way he responded. Your thoughts?
GERGEN: Lou, I've been trying to beat this drum here now for some days. I believe very strongly that we should destroy that prison. We have no business being there to start with. I don't know -- it was a misjudgment to go in there.
This is the most notorious torture chamber that Saddam ran. For America to be occupying it was a mistake in and of itself. But now with these pictures, one of the ways to send a signal that we are not going to tolerate this behavior on the part of our own troops is to destroy that damn prison. Tear it down. Close that prison. And then open up all the other prisons to the International Red Cross so everybody has a sense this is an open and fair and decent society as it is, rather than the picture that is are distorting what America is all about.
DOBBS: You made another recommendation that intrigues me, and that is you suggestion that send General Shinseki back to Iraq to investigate what happened. I suspect that would be -- he might be something of a lightning rod on the issue of the number of troops who were there and are required to carry out the job. But a fascinating idea. How did you select him?
GERGEN: General Eric Shenseki was a former army chief of staff, retired four-star general, twice wound indeed Vietnam, had a foot blown off and insisted he wanted to stay in the army, loves the institution.
And because he has been a thorn in the side of the Rumsfeld team, I think he would be seen by everyone as a fair and impartial nonpartisan person to go in and figure out, what happened.
DOBBS: David, he was, basically, drummed out of Washington for saying several hundred thousand troops would be post Saddam in Iraq. Proved, it seems, certainly, arguable, absolutely correct on the issue.
GERGEN: He was, indeed. I think that's one of the things that has been -- of course, has lifted him in our eyes. He was a prophet. But what has impressed me even more, Lou, about General Shenseki is since he has left the service and was drummed out, he has been so careful and so discrete.
He has not written a book, inside tale. He's not sought personal publicity. He's kept his silence on these issues in order to protect the troops.
I've talked to him about this. He doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize the troops there. That's why he's such an impartial person. We need somebody here now who is not seen in this particular chain of command, some retired people to come in. I'm glad Don Rumsfeld is appointing people.
But I have to say even now, Don Rumsfeld was very good day. He was not quite on top of his brief a couple times when questioned by Senator McCain. I was a little surprised by that.
DOBBS: David Gergen, as always, thanks for being here.
While Secretary Rumsfeld was testifying on Capitol Hill, more fights in Iraq. U.S. troops today killed 22 insurgents in fighting in and around Najaf. The battles over the past 24 hours the most intense since U.S. troops moved in earlier this week to crush the militia of Muqtada al-Sadr.
There were also fire fights in Karbala where U.S. troops discovered weapons caches during operations against a number of targets, including the former headquarters of the Baath party. Ben Wedeman reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Members of the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi army clashes in this holy city. As the confrontation between the Mehdi army and coalition forces spreads. Dozens of suspected insurgents have been killed in recent fighting.
Ever defiant, Sadr himself addressed his supporters at Friday prayers in Kufa, north of Najaf. He swore that American forces would eventually be forced out of Iraq and downplayed President Bush's apology over the prison abuse scandal.
MUQTADA AL-SADR, SHIITE CLERIC (through translator): It's expected that the U.S. would apologize for the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners, he said, since he stood before the world and the whole world is against these immoral, inhumane acts.
WEDEMAN: Outside Baghdad's Kasamia (ph) mosque, mixed reviews of apologies from the U.S. administration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We hope the American president compensates the people who were abused, says Ali Ansadhi (ph) man. We want these problems to end, because the Iraqi people are tired and want to live in peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We say to Bush...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: That's Ben Wedeman reporting.
New details tonight about the Portland attorney under arrest in connection with the terrorist attacks in Madrid. Investigators say Brandon Mayfield's fingerprints were found on a plastic bag in Spain. That bag contained the same kind of detonators allegedly used in the March 11 attacks that is killed nearly 200 people. Ted Rowlands is in Portland, Oregon and has the latest for us -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Mayfield's friends and family members are coming to his defense tonight here in Portland, basically saying that the government is inappropriately targeting Mayfield and he couldn't possibly have anything to do with this.
Sources in both Spain and the United States tell CNN that Mayfield's partial or full fingerprint was located on a plastic bag, which was found in a van near the site of the Madrid train bombings. That attack, of course, as you mentioned on March 11, killed more than -- killed 190 people and injured more than 1,500 others.
Mayfield's attorney that represented him here in Portland yesterday in a closed federal hearing says that Mayfield is being targeted because he is a practicing Muslim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM NELSON, FRM. MAYFIELD ATTY: They're trying to tie him into fanaticism and to terrorism and to jihadism and to Islamic fundamentalism and all the isms that are abhorrent to the United States and to right-thinking people. It's not going to work in his case. If you get to know him, you'll see this is bogus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Mayfield is being held as a material witness, which gives the federal government some latitude as to how long they can keep him. According to federal guidelines they can hold him for a, quote, a reasonable amount of time, enough to get his deposition or allow him to testify in front of a federal grand jury. That is expected to happen here in Portland in the coming days -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ted, thank you very much. Ted Rowlands reporting from Portland.
Still ahead, "Heroes." A unique charity to help soldiers wounded in combat. And a major overhaul for the healthcare system for millions of this country's veterans, including the closing of several VA hospitals. I'll be talking to the secretary of Department of Veteran Affairs, Anthony Principi.
Also, "Exporting America." We'll tell you why some states could jeopardize their rights by supporting two new trade agreements.
And hundreds of thousands of jobs created for a second month in this country. Almost 1 million jobs created now since the beginning of the year. We'll have the good news when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, in "Exporting America," the U.S. trade representative has asked all 50 states to support new trade agreements with Australia and central America. But there is definitely some fine print that governors and legislators in those states should be reading. And those details, in fact, could take away state's right when is it comes to trade, including state efforts to stop the flow of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Critics say the Bush administration's glad handing over recent trade deals is turning into the strong-arming of states. As part of trade negotiations, the U.S. trade representative sent a letter governors asking for a voluntary commitment on procurement. 27 state governors signed up. But some of the provisions could severely restrict states' decisions.
CHRIS SLEVIN, PUBLIC CITIZEN: States have a lot to lose by signing on to these agreements. They're not getting access to foreign markets by signing on to these. They are basically opening up their own purchasing policies to U.S. trade negotiators.
SYLVESTER: The trade agreements could prohibit a state from giving subsidies to local farmers and small businesses as well as limits states which prefer not to do business with polluters or states that have by American laws giving U.S. companies an edge over foreign corporations. Any state law that aims to curb offshoring could be illegal under the new trade agreements.
PROF. ROBERT STUMBERG, GEORGETOWN LAW: Based on that act of correspondence, international law now applies to your state. The risk of noncompliance could be preemption by the federal government or it could be the risk that your state could be sanctioned economically through tariffs.
SYLVESTER: It is normally the state legislature's job to decide how money is spent, not the governors. Washington state representative Velma Veloria questions if her governor even has the proper authority. She fears trade deals are being made without enough oversight.
REP. VELMA VELORIA, WASHINGTON STATE HOUSE: The people elected us to protect their rights, to be able help with part -- to develop laws and regulations, to help our own economy. If these international trade agreements take that away, where then, do the people go?
SYLVESTER: At the same time, states are worried about the impact of free trade agreements. U.S. T.R. Robert Zellick continues to push forward with at least seven new agreements being negotiated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Until the trade agreements are signed by President Bush, states can still pull their name off the list if they do not want to be held to these restrictive provisions. The president is expected to sign the Australian trade agreement in two weeks -- Lou.
DOBBS: Let's be frank about this. Much of this is being done without great publicity between the U.S. trade representatives, the governors and representatives in states, isn't that correct?
SYLVESTER: It is. I think this is really being slipped under the radar. I'm not sure if many of these governors are knowingly -- if they even are aware of exactly what they're giving up. There is a campaign out there to make governors aware of exactly what's at stake and how this could affect their procurement decisions in the future -- Lou.
DOBBS: The Washington representative talking about, in effect, international trade agreements superseding states' rights in this country, the fact is the World Trade agreement and NAFTA both have provisions that supersede our court system now moving to the state legislatures and the governorship almost without examination. We thank you for yours tonight, Lisa, thanks. Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.
Taking a look at your thoughts. Constantine Alexandrakis of Atlanta, Georgia, "your crusade against outsourcing may be serving the interest of the limited number of workers who are negatively affected by it but does a disservice to every American who as a consumer would benefit from the price decrease that follows any cost reducing innovation including outsourcing. Is there a reason why you place the interests of those workers over the interests of hundreds of millions of consumers?
Well, Constantine, I think Rebecca Jensen has your answer. Rebecca wrote in to say, "I'm confused. If Americans aren't working, who is going to be able to afford to use and buy all these outsourced services and goods?"
And (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Teaneck, New Jersey. "Lou, outsourcing is a problem and we need to do something to keep jobs in our country but the bigger problem is illegal aliens taking the jobs of legal aliens or U.S. citizens. Can we do anything about it? I reported a business that was using illegal aliens to my local police department. They smiled and said, do you want us to arrest half the businesses and employees in this town?"
Please send us your comments at loudobbs@CNN.com.
Tonight's thought, "responsibility is the price of freedom." The words of author Elbert Hubbard.
Still ahead, a massive overhaul of the healthcare system for millions of American veterans, the largest in a half century, in fact. The Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi joins us.
Positive signs for the economy. The job market. Hundreds of thousands of jobs created. But millions more Americans remain looking for work. We'll have that story and more still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Department of Veterans Affairs today announced the most sweeping overhaul of veterans healthcare in this country in half a century. The plan will cost up to $7 billion over the next seven years. Three hospitals will close, one in Brecksville, Ohio, Gullport, Mississippi and Pittsburgh. Two new hospitals will be built in Orlando, Florida and Las Vegas, Nevada. Joining me now from Las Vegas, the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi. Mr. Secretary, good to have you with us. The veterans organizations themselves today supporting your plan, even with the closing of those hospitals which is always difficult in those regions. How has been the reaction?
ANTHONY PRINCIPI, VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY: Well, I think the reaction has been very positive, Lou. The leadership of the six major veterans organizations were with me today. They've been part of the process from the very beginning. I think they realize that we're at a crossroads. We need to modernize an aging infrastructure that's on average 50 years old, and we're wasting $1 million a day on maintaining empty buildings that could be better utilized to treat patients.
DOBBS: Senator Kerry today was critical of the decision. Your response?
PRINCIPI: Well, I think it would be outrageous not to do anything. The veterans of the 21st century, the men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan and future veterans deserve to be treated in 21st century medical centers and clinics and not the century gone by. Yes, it is hard to close down some facilities. They were built for 2,000 patients. Today we may have 100, 150 patient in those facilities. That's costing a great deal of money. We need to modernize. That's critical to our future.
DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, when you and I last talked, you said your goal was to make certain that no veteran was having to wait for healthcare, to achieve that by the end of 2003. Have you met your goal?
PRINCIPI: Yes, we have. We do have some spot shortages and waiting lists around the country, but two years ago we had about 176,000 veterans who were waiting over six months for their first appointment. Today that number is down to about 3,500. We're making great progress. I thank the president and Congress for the generosity they have shown to my department. Our healthcare budget has gone up over 40 percent the last four years. That's a record.
DOBBS: Anthony Principi, secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Thank you for being here.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Is the Bush administration correct to have closed three of those veterans hospitals? Yes or no, cast your vote at CNN.com/lou.
Tonight in "Heroes," Sergeant Peter Damon is recovering at Walter Reed Army Medical Center after losing both of his arms in combat in Iraq. Thanks to a unique organization, he will return to a brand new home which will be fully equipped to meet his special needs. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a fundraiser for Homes For Our Troops. It is a group founded by John Gonsalves, a man who is not a vet but who is driven by a sense of duty.
JOHN GONSALVES, HOMES FOR OUR TROOPS: Homes For Our Troops is not a left thing. It is not a right thing. It's the right thing to do for these soldiers. We have a responsibility as Americans to do more than is being done now.
TUCKER: John is a construction supervisor. He's persuaded developers to donate land, contractors to donate material and tradesmen to donate their time. Sergeant Peter Damon will be the first vet to receive a home. He's a double amputee with a wife and two children.
SGT. PETER DAMON, ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: The words can't express how grateful I am to be a part of this and be the first recipient of this great organization.
TUCKER: The homes will be built to meet the needs of disabled veterans as Sergeant Damon explained on this walk through his mother's house.
DAMON: Certain cabinets handles I wouldn't be able to use. I think there's over 200 amputees coming back from this war and a lot of guys could use something like this.
TUCKER: Homes For Our Troops is a grassroots organization.
GONSALVES: All the tickets, programs and promotional materials that have gone on over town, all the kids at the schools did it. It was their project they put together.
TUCKER: That's right. The local high schools got in on the action, too. This fundraiser netted roughly $6,000, which was then matched by a local bank. Many donations come by mail. And reveal a wealth of character.
GONSALVES: "I'm 79 years old and have very little savings left. I do hope many others will match my amount for you. You are a true hero." She sent $12.
TUCKER: Letters like that come from all across the country.
GONSALVES: A whole bunch from Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Tennessee.
TUCKER: Homes For Our Troops has raised more than $120,000 so far. That's without any corporate sponsorship which would help it meet its goal of expanding nationally. Bill Tucker, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: If you want to learn more about Homes For Our Troops, HomesForOurTroops.com. Visit our website, CNN.com/lou where we have further information as well.
Up next, surprisingly good news for job seekers and manufacturing. We'll have that good news story when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Some great news on employment. The economy added nearly 300,000 new jobs in April, but stocks sold off today on fears of rising interest rates. All three major index closed at the lowest levels in six weeks. The Dow down almost 124 points. The NASDAQ off almost 20. The S&P 500 down more than 15. Christine Romans now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, job gains across most sectors, even manufacturing. March and April are the best back-to- back monthly gains in four years. 288,000 jobs created in April. The Labor Department upwardly revised March and February. There have been eight months in a row gains now. 867,000 jobs created so far this year.
President Bush is still on track to be the first president since the Depression to have lost jobs under his watch, but, Lou, the recent hiring has cut those losses to 1.5 million jobs. Also today, oil briefly topped $40 a barrel for the first time in 13 years. U.S. gas supplies tight. Refiners struggling to meet demand. OPEC resisting calls to boost output. Calls are growing. This could be a problem for global growth eventually.
DOBBS: Something is always a problem in the minds of Wall Street. Good news on jobs. Thanks, Christine.
Still ahead, the result of our poll. We continue in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results now of our poll. 91 percent of you say the Bush administration is not correct to close those three veterans administration hospitals despite opening others. That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Monday the chairman of the Senate select committee on intelligence, Senator Pat Roberts will be here with us and journalist/author Bill Moyers. For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 7, 2004 - 18:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: This concludes what has been an extraordinary day of testimony by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to both the House Armed Services Committee. You're looking at Chairman Congressman Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
Earlier, Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon officials appearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Secretary Rumsfeld spent more than six hours today on Capitol Hill. In his testimony, the secretary took full responsibility for the prisoner abuse scandal. Rumsfeld said he is accountable, and Rumsfeld apologized to the victims.
But the defense secretary also said he has no intention of resigning.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said he would resign, quote, "in a minute" if he felt he couldn't be effective. But clearly, that's not his opinion.
He mounted a vigorous defense of his actions, even while apologizing to the victims.
Rumsfeld's testimony came, as you said, a marathon session in which he both was somewhat contrite and also very aggressive in defending the way the Pentagon has handled the case and how the -- how they announced it to the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: So to those Iraqis who were mistreated by members of the U.S. armed forces, I offer my deepest apology. It was inconsistent with the values of our nation. It was inconsistent with the teachings of the military to the men and women of the armed forces. And it was certainly fundamentally un- American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld admitted that he only saw the photographs for the first time last night, other than the ones that had been aired in an edited fashion in the news media. And he admitted -- admitted that it was a personal failure that he was sticking so closely to the rules of military evidence and that he didn't demand to see the pictures earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: If there's a failure, it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds, or however many there are of these things, that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done.
But I certainly never gave the president the -- a briefing with the impact that one would have had you seen the photographs, or the videos. I mean, let there be no doubt about that. He was just as blindsided as the Congress and me and everyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld said it was a mistake to adhere so closely to the rules that are designed to protect the rights of the accused.
He said he doesn't know how he would do it, but he said he needs to find a way that when something of this importance is going on, it doesn't get buried because of technical procedures involving the legal ramifications of the case -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, Secretary Rumsfeld also said there were videos and there were a lot more instances here. Your best assessment of that?
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, he says he hasn't even seen the videos, which are still apparently down at the U.S. Central Command in Florida. And as he said, he only saw the real pictures last night.
There's no intention of releasing those videos. And Rumsfeld admitted today that if more of the pictures and the videos got out, it would only make things worse, if you can imagine that.
But he's pledged that they will get to the bottom of it and that they will go up as far and high in the chain of command as they need to to make sure that they find out the real cause of this and to make sure it doesn't happen again.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, senior Pentagon correspondent. Thank you.
Sharp exchanges between some of the lawmakers today and Secretary Rumsfeld. At issue, not only the prisoner abuse scandal but Rumsfeld's failure to keep Congress informed.
Congressional correspondent Ed Henry has the report -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the political question hanging over both of these hearings was can the secretary survive? And the answer is, stay tuned literally and figuratively.
We have to stay tuned literally because, as Jamie was talking about, senators in both parties are now speculating about talking videos that are supposedly out there that could show much more heinous abuse, much worse than we've already seen in the photos that are out there.
And senators are also openly saying that there are many, many more photos that are yet to come out. And one senator who really verbalized that was Senator Lindsey Graham, a member of the committee.
Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's going to get worse. You're going to have more things to show people that will make people mad, more angry. So this is going to get worse.
And I was trying to tell the secretary, it's going to get worse before it gets better. Do you think you can handle this.
And he said he thought he could.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: And Lou -- and Lou, the bottom line is that there are two camps here. I've been talking to a lot of senators and staffers after the Senate hearing, trying to get a handle on the political situation.
There's one camp that's saying under the circumstances, under the intense, political pressure that Rumsfeld has been under, he actually did a reasonably good job, and they're also pointing out that it's very difficult to change defense secretaries in the middle of a war.
And they're also pointing out that no Republicans have called on him to resign. So that's keeping him alive at this point.
But others are saying that the drip, drip of this scandal, and if more comes out, it's going to be hard for Rumsfeld to stick around.
And one key thing to pay attention to. The Senate hearing, Senator Evan Bayh, Democrat of Indiana, had an unbelievable exchange with Rumsfeld in which Bayh asked him if resigning would make it better for the nation, put it behind him and make our troops safer, would you resign."
Senators in both parties were struck by the fact that Rumsfeld had a long pause and then finally said, "I don't know. Maybe." He, basically, said it's possible if he resigned the situation could get better. The fact that he was openly speculating about his own resignation, the possibility of a resignation is leading some senators to say he could very well do that.
But it's all speculation at this point. And there are two diverse camps right now. And basically, the question that was hanging over these hearings is still out there, Lou.
DOBBS: And Ed, I think it's fair to say, and please correct me if I've -- if I'm misconstruing this. But the secretary was invited to respond to a question. He wasn't speculating spontaneously on his own future or the possibility of resignation, correct?
HENRY: Well, there were actually two questions. What happened is Senator Lindsey Graham, who I'd mentioned, he had asked a question earlier, saying, "Have you thought about resigning?"
And actually the secretary responded very openly to the committee that he had been thinking about it. And he basically had been mulling, could this be a good thing or not? But they did not finish that line of questioning, because Graham's time ran out.
So then Evan Bayh, as I mentioned, came in, followed that line of questioning. And that's when that follow-up question came up.
And senators in both parties I've talked to after the hearing are saying they were very struck by the long pause from Rumsfeld after Bayh asked, "Would it be, you know -- if it's -- if you resigned and it was going to help the country would you do it?"
That long pause is leaving a lot of people wondering about what's in his head right now, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Ed Henry reporting from Capitol Hill.
Next, I'll be joined by former presidential adviser, David Gergen.
Also in Iraq, the enemy suffering heavy losses. U.S. troops kill 22 insurgents. We'll have a report for you.
And more details tonight about an American attorney linked to the Madrid train bombings that killed nearly 200 people and wounded 15 others -- 1,500 others.
And "Exporting America." Hard to believe, but the federal government is trying to prevent states from passing laws against the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: After being on Capitol Hill more than six hours today testifying before both the Senate and the House Armed Services Committee, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today took responsibility for the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq. He also apologized.
My guest tonight says decisive actions are needed to resolve this issue, and he says the United States needs to close down the Abu Ghraib prison because we have simply no business being there.
Joining me now, former presidential adviser, David Gergen.
David, good to have you with us. Let's get your assessment, first, of how the secretary of defense did.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: He did well. It was -- It was manful and brave to stand up. Finally somebody did and said, "I'm responsible here. I take -- I'm the person at the top of this chain within the Defense Department." He apologized.
And I think he also faced very squarely the reality that he may be forced out. He clearly does not want to be forced out.
But I'll tell you one thing, Lou. I do think this. Even as he previews that this is likely to get worse: we have videos out there; there are more pictures.
I've known Don Rumsfeld now for some 30 years. I do believe that he is, first and foremost, a patriot who believes very strongly in the mission here and that if he does believe it's in the best interest of the Pentagon and of the country for him to step aside, he will do that. He will take -- he will take the arrow and leave. I think he's that type of fellow.
I think right now we're in a wait and see period. It strikes me that it was good news for him today, that no Republican has bolted. No Republican has said he ought to step down.
At the same time, he had to be sobered by the fact that many Republicans in the hallways in the Senate after the testimony were, basically, taking a let's wait and see how much there is out there before we make a final decision on this.
I think he's safe tonight. I think we're in a wait and see situation. I also think this is a man who's brave and patriotic and will leave if he thinks that's in the best interest of the country.
DOBBS: I was struck by a number of the congressmen and senators who seemed to be less interested in pursuing a line of question than posturing for themselves or in the interests of the secretary.
We're at war. We have men and women in uniform in combat in Iraq. It just struck me that some were less than serious about getting to the bottom of the question, "What in the world happened and who's responsible?"
GERGEN: I'm so glad you said that. The frustration today was that we had many speeches coming from some of the senators, either pro or con. Indeed, it happened in the House, too, as opposed to really getting to it.
There were members I thought were really very good in pursuing the truth. And one was Senator McCain on the Republican side and the other was Senator Ben Nelson on the -- from Florida, Democratic side. They at least were trying to "Let's get our facts out before we start posturing."
But there was a lot of posturing.
DOBBS: And Senator Nelson was the first, as far as I know, to recommend leveling Abu Ghraib Prison to which today Secretary Rumsfeld acknowledged it might not be a bad idea, I believe was the way he responded. Your thoughts?
GERGEN: Lou, I've been trying to beat this drum here now for some days. I believe very strongly that we should destroy that prison. We have no business being there to start with. I don't know -- it was a misjudgment to go in there.
This is the most notorious torture chamber that Saddam ran. For America to be occupying it was a mistake in and of itself. But now with these pictures, one of the ways to send a signal that we are not going to tolerate this behavior on the part of our own troops is to destroy that damn prison. Tear it down. Close that prison. And then open up all the other prisons to the International Red Cross so everybody has a sense this is an open and fair and decent society as it is, rather than the picture that is are distorting what America is all about.
DOBBS: You made another recommendation that intrigues me, and that is you suggestion that send General Shinseki back to Iraq to investigate what happened. I suspect that would be -- he might be something of a lightning rod on the issue of the number of troops who were there and are required to carry out the job. But a fascinating idea. How did you select him?
GERGEN: General Eric Shenseki was a former army chief of staff, retired four-star general, twice wound indeed Vietnam, had a foot blown off and insisted he wanted to stay in the army, loves the institution.
And because he has been a thorn in the side of the Rumsfeld team, I think he would be seen by everyone as a fair and impartial nonpartisan person to go in and figure out, what happened.
DOBBS: David, he was, basically, drummed out of Washington for saying several hundred thousand troops would be post Saddam in Iraq. Proved, it seems, certainly, arguable, absolutely correct on the issue.
GERGEN: He was, indeed. I think that's one of the things that has been -- of course, has lifted him in our eyes. He was a prophet. But what has impressed me even more, Lou, about General Shenseki is since he has left the service and was drummed out, he has been so careful and so discrete.
He has not written a book, inside tale. He's not sought personal publicity. He's kept his silence on these issues in order to protect the troops.
I've talked to him about this. He doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize the troops there. That's why he's such an impartial person. We need somebody here now who is not seen in this particular chain of command, some retired people to come in. I'm glad Don Rumsfeld is appointing people.
But I have to say even now, Don Rumsfeld was very good day. He was not quite on top of his brief a couple times when questioned by Senator McCain. I was a little surprised by that.
DOBBS: David Gergen, as always, thanks for being here.
While Secretary Rumsfeld was testifying on Capitol Hill, more fights in Iraq. U.S. troops today killed 22 insurgents in fighting in and around Najaf. The battles over the past 24 hours the most intense since U.S. troops moved in earlier this week to crush the militia of Muqtada al-Sadr.
There were also fire fights in Karbala where U.S. troops discovered weapons caches during operations against a number of targets, including the former headquarters of the Baath party. Ben Wedeman reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Members of the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi army clashes in this holy city. As the confrontation between the Mehdi army and coalition forces spreads. Dozens of suspected insurgents have been killed in recent fighting.
Ever defiant, Sadr himself addressed his supporters at Friday prayers in Kufa, north of Najaf. He swore that American forces would eventually be forced out of Iraq and downplayed President Bush's apology over the prison abuse scandal.
MUQTADA AL-SADR, SHIITE CLERIC (through translator): It's expected that the U.S. would apologize for the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners, he said, since he stood before the world and the whole world is against these immoral, inhumane acts.
WEDEMAN: Outside Baghdad's Kasamia (ph) mosque, mixed reviews of apologies from the U.S. administration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We hope the American president compensates the people who were abused, says Ali Ansadhi (ph) man. We want these problems to end, because the Iraqi people are tired and want to live in peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We say to Bush...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: That's Ben Wedeman reporting.
New details tonight about the Portland attorney under arrest in connection with the terrorist attacks in Madrid. Investigators say Brandon Mayfield's fingerprints were found on a plastic bag in Spain. That bag contained the same kind of detonators allegedly used in the March 11 attacks that is killed nearly 200 people. Ted Rowlands is in Portland, Oregon and has the latest for us -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Mayfield's friends and family members are coming to his defense tonight here in Portland, basically saying that the government is inappropriately targeting Mayfield and he couldn't possibly have anything to do with this.
Sources in both Spain and the United States tell CNN that Mayfield's partial or full fingerprint was located on a plastic bag, which was found in a van near the site of the Madrid train bombings. That attack, of course, as you mentioned on March 11, killed more than -- killed 190 people and injured more than 1,500 others.
Mayfield's attorney that represented him here in Portland yesterday in a closed federal hearing says that Mayfield is being targeted because he is a practicing Muslim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM NELSON, FRM. MAYFIELD ATTY: They're trying to tie him into fanaticism and to terrorism and to jihadism and to Islamic fundamentalism and all the isms that are abhorrent to the United States and to right-thinking people. It's not going to work in his case. If you get to know him, you'll see this is bogus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Mayfield is being held as a material witness, which gives the federal government some latitude as to how long they can keep him. According to federal guidelines they can hold him for a, quote, a reasonable amount of time, enough to get his deposition or allow him to testify in front of a federal grand jury. That is expected to happen here in Portland in the coming days -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ted, thank you very much. Ted Rowlands reporting from Portland.
Still ahead, "Heroes." A unique charity to help soldiers wounded in combat. And a major overhaul for the healthcare system for millions of this country's veterans, including the closing of several VA hospitals. I'll be talking to the secretary of Department of Veteran Affairs, Anthony Principi.
Also, "Exporting America." We'll tell you why some states could jeopardize their rights by supporting two new trade agreements.
And hundreds of thousands of jobs created for a second month in this country. Almost 1 million jobs created now since the beginning of the year. We'll have the good news when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, in "Exporting America," the U.S. trade representative has asked all 50 states to support new trade agreements with Australia and central America. But there is definitely some fine print that governors and legislators in those states should be reading. And those details, in fact, could take away state's right when is it comes to trade, including state efforts to stop the flow of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Critics say the Bush administration's glad handing over recent trade deals is turning into the strong-arming of states. As part of trade negotiations, the U.S. trade representative sent a letter governors asking for a voluntary commitment on procurement. 27 state governors signed up. But some of the provisions could severely restrict states' decisions.
CHRIS SLEVIN, PUBLIC CITIZEN: States have a lot to lose by signing on to these agreements. They're not getting access to foreign markets by signing on to these. They are basically opening up their own purchasing policies to U.S. trade negotiators.
SYLVESTER: The trade agreements could prohibit a state from giving subsidies to local farmers and small businesses as well as limits states which prefer not to do business with polluters or states that have by American laws giving U.S. companies an edge over foreign corporations. Any state law that aims to curb offshoring could be illegal under the new trade agreements.
PROF. ROBERT STUMBERG, GEORGETOWN LAW: Based on that act of correspondence, international law now applies to your state. The risk of noncompliance could be preemption by the federal government or it could be the risk that your state could be sanctioned economically through tariffs.
SYLVESTER: It is normally the state legislature's job to decide how money is spent, not the governors. Washington state representative Velma Veloria questions if her governor even has the proper authority. She fears trade deals are being made without enough oversight.
REP. VELMA VELORIA, WASHINGTON STATE HOUSE: The people elected us to protect their rights, to be able help with part -- to develop laws and regulations, to help our own economy. If these international trade agreements take that away, where then, do the people go?
SYLVESTER: At the same time, states are worried about the impact of free trade agreements. U.S. T.R. Robert Zellick continues to push forward with at least seven new agreements being negotiated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Until the trade agreements are signed by President Bush, states can still pull their name off the list if they do not want to be held to these restrictive provisions. The president is expected to sign the Australian trade agreement in two weeks -- Lou.
DOBBS: Let's be frank about this. Much of this is being done without great publicity between the U.S. trade representatives, the governors and representatives in states, isn't that correct?
SYLVESTER: It is. I think this is really being slipped under the radar. I'm not sure if many of these governors are knowingly -- if they even are aware of exactly what they're giving up. There is a campaign out there to make governors aware of exactly what's at stake and how this could affect their procurement decisions in the future -- Lou.
DOBBS: The Washington representative talking about, in effect, international trade agreements superseding states' rights in this country, the fact is the World Trade agreement and NAFTA both have provisions that supersede our court system now moving to the state legislatures and the governorship almost without examination. We thank you for yours tonight, Lisa, thanks. Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.
Taking a look at your thoughts. Constantine Alexandrakis of Atlanta, Georgia, "your crusade against outsourcing may be serving the interest of the limited number of workers who are negatively affected by it but does a disservice to every American who as a consumer would benefit from the price decrease that follows any cost reducing innovation including outsourcing. Is there a reason why you place the interests of those workers over the interests of hundreds of millions of consumers?
Well, Constantine, I think Rebecca Jensen has your answer. Rebecca wrote in to say, "I'm confused. If Americans aren't working, who is going to be able to afford to use and buy all these outsourced services and goods?"
And (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Teaneck, New Jersey. "Lou, outsourcing is a problem and we need to do something to keep jobs in our country but the bigger problem is illegal aliens taking the jobs of legal aliens or U.S. citizens. Can we do anything about it? I reported a business that was using illegal aliens to my local police department. They smiled and said, do you want us to arrest half the businesses and employees in this town?"
Please send us your comments at loudobbs@CNN.com.
Tonight's thought, "responsibility is the price of freedom." The words of author Elbert Hubbard.
Still ahead, a massive overhaul of the healthcare system for millions of American veterans, the largest in a half century, in fact. The Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi joins us.
Positive signs for the economy. The job market. Hundreds of thousands of jobs created. But millions more Americans remain looking for work. We'll have that story and more still ahead. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Department of Veterans Affairs today announced the most sweeping overhaul of veterans healthcare in this country in half a century. The plan will cost up to $7 billion over the next seven years. Three hospitals will close, one in Brecksville, Ohio, Gullport, Mississippi and Pittsburgh. Two new hospitals will be built in Orlando, Florida and Las Vegas, Nevada. Joining me now from Las Vegas, the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi. Mr. Secretary, good to have you with us. The veterans organizations themselves today supporting your plan, even with the closing of those hospitals which is always difficult in those regions. How has been the reaction?
ANTHONY PRINCIPI, VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY: Well, I think the reaction has been very positive, Lou. The leadership of the six major veterans organizations were with me today. They've been part of the process from the very beginning. I think they realize that we're at a crossroads. We need to modernize an aging infrastructure that's on average 50 years old, and we're wasting $1 million a day on maintaining empty buildings that could be better utilized to treat patients.
DOBBS: Senator Kerry today was critical of the decision. Your response?
PRINCIPI: Well, I think it would be outrageous not to do anything. The veterans of the 21st century, the men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan and future veterans deserve to be treated in 21st century medical centers and clinics and not the century gone by. Yes, it is hard to close down some facilities. They were built for 2,000 patients. Today we may have 100, 150 patient in those facilities. That's costing a great deal of money. We need to modernize. That's critical to our future.
DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, when you and I last talked, you said your goal was to make certain that no veteran was having to wait for healthcare, to achieve that by the end of 2003. Have you met your goal?
PRINCIPI: Yes, we have. We do have some spot shortages and waiting lists around the country, but two years ago we had about 176,000 veterans who were waiting over six months for their first appointment. Today that number is down to about 3,500. We're making great progress. I thank the president and Congress for the generosity they have shown to my department. Our healthcare budget has gone up over 40 percent the last four years. That's a record.
DOBBS: Anthony Principi, secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Thank you for being here.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Is the Bush administration correct to have closed three of those veterans hospitals? Yes or no, cast your vote at CNN.com/lou.
Tonight in "Heroes," Sergeant Peter Damon is recovering at Walter Reed Army Medical Center after losing both of his arms in combat in Iraq. Thanks to a unique organization, he will return to a brand new home which will be fully equipped to meet his special needs. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a fundraiser for Homes For Our Troops. It is a group founded by John Gonsalves, a man who is not a vet but who is driven by a sense of duty.
JOHN GONSALVES, HOMES FOR OUR TROOPS: Homes For Our Troops is not a left thing. It is not a right thing. It's the right thing to do for these soldiers. We have a responsibility as Americans to do more than is being done now.
TUCKER: John is a construction supervisor. He's persuaded developers to donate land, contractors to donate material and tradesmen to donate their time. Sergeant Peter Damon will be the first vet to receive a home. He's a double amputee with a wife and two children.
SGT. PETER DAMON, ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: The words can't express how grateful I am to be a part of this and be the first recipient of this great organization.
TUCKER: The homes will be built to meet the needs of disabled veterans as Sergeant Damon explained on this walk through his mother's house.
DAMON: Certain cabinets handles I wouldn't be able to use. I think there's over 200 amputees coming back from this war and a lot of guys could use something like this.
TUCKER: Homes For Our Troops is a grassroots organization.
GONSALVES: All the tickets, programs and promotional materials that have gone on over town, all the kids at the schools did it. It was their project they put together.
TUCKER: That's right. The local high schools got in on the action, too. This fundraiser netted roughly $6,000, which was then matched by a local bank. Many donations come by mail. And reveal a wealth of character.
GONSALVES: "I'm 79 years old and have very little savings left. I do hope many others will match my amount for you. You are a true hero." She sent $12.
TUCKER: Letters like that come from all across the country.
GONSALVES: A whole bunch from Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Tennessee.
TUCKER: Homes For Our Troops has raised more than $120,000 so far. That's without any corporate sponsorship which would help it meet its goal of expanding nationally. Bill Tucker, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: If you want to learn more about Homes For Our Troops, HomesForOurTroops.com. Visit our website, CNN.com/lou where we have further information as well.
Up next, surprisingly good news for job seekers and manufacturing. We'll have that good news story when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Some great news on employment. The economy added nearly 300,000 new jobs in April, but stocks sold off today on fears of rising interest rates. All three major index closed at the lowest levels in six weeks. The Dow down almost 124 points. The NASDAQ off almost 20. The S&P 500 down more than 15. Christine Romans now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, job gains across most sectors, even manufacturing. March and April are the best back-to- back monthly gains in four years. 288,000 jobs created in April. The Labor Department upwardly revised March and February. There have been eight months in a row gains now. 867,000 jobs created so far this year.
President Bush is still on track to be the first president since the Depression to have lost jobs under his watch, but, Lou, the recent hiring has cut those losses to 1.5 million jobs. Also today, oil briefly topped $40 a barrel for the first time in 13 years. U.S. gas supplies tight. Refiners struggling to meet demand. OPEC resisting calls to boost output. Calls are growing. This could be a problem for global growth eventually.
DOBBS: Something is always a problem in the minds of Wall Street. Good news on jobs. Thanks, Christine.
Still ahead, the result of our poll. We continue in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results now of our poll. 91 percent of you say the Bush administration is not correct to close those three veterans administration hospitals despite opening others. That's our show for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Monday the chairman of the Senate select committee on intelligence, Senator Pat Roberts will be here with us and journalist/author Bill Moyers. For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
