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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Interview With Congressman Duncan Hunter; President Bush Calls For Full Iraqi Sovereignty

Aired May 28, 2004 - 18:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, no more limited sovereignty for Iraq on June 30. President Bush says the Iraqis can have full and complete sovereignty.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our coalition will transfer full sovereignty, complete and full sovereignty, to an Iraqi government.

DOBBS: The Army running out of bullets and may have to buy ammunition from foreign countries. The Air Force may buy a tanker aircraft from Europe. The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee says, enough. He wants the U.S. military to be self-reliant and he wants American defense jobs to stay in this country. Congressman Duncan Hunter is our guest.

Senator John Kerry on the attack, calling for rebuilding of alliances, lowering our dependence on foreign oil, and increasing the size of the U.S. military. Kerry adviser and former Defense Secretary William Perry joins us.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe they have made America less safe, not more safe, with their blustering, arrogant foreign policy.

DOBBS: The United States signs CAFTA, a free trade agreement with Central America that still requires the approval of Congress. Critics say the deal will lower the wages of American workers and undermine our environmental protections.

And nearly 60 years after the end of World War II, veterans finally have a Washington memorial to honor their service and sacrifice. Those veterans and the rest of the nation have one woman to thank, Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur. She's our guest tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, May 28. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

President Bush today promised to transfer full and complete sovereignty to Iraq on June 30. President Bush also said the United States is now working closely with other countries to secure a United Nations resolution on Iraq. The president's comments were targeted at members of the U.N. Security Council, who still doubt the United States will hand over complete control to the Iraqis.

White House correspondent Dana Bash reports -- Dana Bash.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the president came out to the Rose Garden today with the Danish prime minister and struck quite a conciliatory tone.

The issue, of course, is the U.N. Security Council, as you mentioned, trying to get a new resolution there. And there are still major differences there, primarily over how much control the new Iraqi government will have over U.S. troops. But Mr. Bush tried to be crystal clear that there is in no way any sense that there will be limited sovereignty.

He said that the Iraqis will have full political control, just as key members of the U.N. Security Council are asking for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I told the prime minister that our government and our coalition will transfer full sovereignty, complete and full sovereignty, to a Iraqi government that will be picked by Mr. Brahimi of the United Nations. He said, do you mean full sovereignty. I said, I mean full sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, the president said he had those same reassuring words for the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. He put a phone call into Mr. Putin today, another key member of the U.N. Security Council. And all of this, of course, is aimed at getting a new U.N. blessing for the plan moving forward in Iraq to transfer sovereignty. That is a plan that the White House says that they have given over to the special envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi.

Now, this is a place that Bush officials admit they did not expect to be leading up to the war when they issued ultimatums like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding or will it be irrelevant?

The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities. So we will rise to ours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: But the postwar situation, obviously, has not gone exactly as they had planned. It has been much more difficult. And even conservatives, Lou, in the president's own party who are not big fans of the U.N. are now saying that it is important for the president to be practical. They understand that he's going back to the U.N. And they say it is necessary in order to get him out of this corner they say he's in -- Lou.

DOBBS: Dana Bash, let me ask you, obviously, a point of difference between Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom and the president on the issue of the veto, Iraqi veto, of U.S. military operations. Does the president's statements today, do they mean that, indeed, the Iraqis will have veto power over U.S. military operations?

BASH: Well, the devil obviously is in the details.

Rhetorically, the White House is trying to, as I said, be as conciliatory as possible. In terms of the details of the U.N. resolution, the secretary of state did say today that he's willing to make changes. The White House is saying the same thing. But whether or not they're going to write that into a resolution, that the Iraqis will have more control than the U.S. had planned over their troops, that's a question that's still very much open, Lou.

DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash from the White House.

In Baghdad today, a major step toward the creation of an interim Iraqi government. The Iraqi Governing Council nominated a former Iraqi exile to be prime minister when the coalition hands over power and sovereignty. Iyad Allawi is the founder of the Iraqi National Accord. He survived an assassination attempt by Saddam Hussein's secret police in London 25 years ago.

Allawi will be the first Iraqi other than Saddam Hussein to lead Iraq in more than three decades.

Insurgents today attacked American troops in Najaf, breaking a one-day-old cease-fire agreement. And the nearby city of Kufa, two U.S. soldiers were wounded in clashes between American troops and gunmen loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr.

Jane Arraf reports from Najaf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Mortars were fired again this morning at the U.S. base in Najaf. Nine mortar rounds hit the base, military officials say, and rocket-propelled grenades fired here as well.

They detained four suspected militia members in Kufa near Najaf. And in detaining them and questioning them they say that the men said they hadn't received any word that they should lay down their arms and stop fighting.

Military officials say it seems as if the word clearly has not gotten out to all of the militia members or it's possible that Muqtada al-Sadr doesn't have control of all the militia members. They are waiting to see if they can have more proof that this is indeed an agreement that the militia is to disband. On the political side, still some items to pinned down in that agreement, it is coming together between Sadr and religious authorities in Najaf. A couple of areas of disagreement still are what leeway U.S. forces would have in the city. They say they need freedom of movement to avoid a security gap. And assurances that the militia within Najaf would clearly and categorically lay down their arms.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Senator Kerry today accused President Bush of undermining this country's safety by -- quote -- "rushing off to war in Iraq." Senator Kerry pledged to increase the size of the active-duty Army by 40,000 soldiers to ease the burden of wartime service that is now on the National Guard and Reserves.

We apologize for those audio problems. Senator Kerry also spoke out against an issue we've been reporting here all week, the Central American Free Trade Agreement, or CAFTA. The United States today signed this latest free trade agreement with five Central American countries. Senator Kerry said CAFTA is a step backwards on the road to fair trade. The Bush administration, for its part, says today's agreement will benefit all Americans. But critics say there are no winners.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the fun part, a celebratory handshake after signing the trade agreement. The hard part is trying to convince Congress to back the deal. CAFTA promises to open up new markets for U.S. goods and reduce poverty in central America.

ROBERT ZOELLICK, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: Today, with a signature and a handshake, we are bridging those divides. We are linking our histories and we are lowering the walls that separate us.

SYLVESTER: But lowering the economic walls is what concerns protesters, a fear the trade deal with lower U.S. wages and environmental standards. And with the U.S. trade deficit in record territory, there's limited support on Capitol Hill for a vote this here.

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: I would love nothing more to have an aggressive, robust debate about our trade policies that have now resulted in just last month having a one-month trade deficit that's nearly $46 billion. That is an unforgivable failure, in my judgment, and one that we ought to debate.

SYLVESTER: The U.S. trade representative's office is trying to blunt criticism.

CHRIS PADILLA, ASSISTANT U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: Almost all Central American products imported to this country today come in duty free. We already have nearly free trade one way. What this agreement is about is opening Central America's market to our products and services. And that's important for Americans.

SYLVESTER: But it is a hard sell considering the results of the North American Free Trade Agreement with Mexico. A $1 billion trade surplus has become a $40 billion deficit, nearly 900,000 jobs lost in the United States, and although the agreement was supposed to leave Mexicans better off, wages there fell. Central Americans are not thrilled to face the same fate.

OSCAR CHACON, SALVADORAN AMERICAN: I that am driving a tricycle, I am asked to compete with somebody who is driving a late-model Mercedes-Benz. And we both are going to compete in the same circuit. And do I have a chance to win?

SYLVESTER: CAFTA's battle is not only in Congress, but also in Central America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: CAFTA also faces a battle on the campaign trade. Lou, as you mentioned, Senator Kerry is on the record saying he is for free trade, but he opposes the CAFTA agreement and would renegotiate the deal if he's elected -- Lou.

DOBBS: Senator Kerry is now talking a lot about fair trade, as are some members even of this administration. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.

Still ahead here, Senator Kerry launches an offensive against President Bush's foreign and national security policies. Kerry adviser former Defense Secretary William Perry is our guest.

America's fighting men and women may soon need foreign bullets to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Duncan Hunter, wants the U.S. military to be self-reliant. He joins us.

And water wars. A six-year drought in the Western states, a struggle for survival for many. But federal and local authorities can't agree on what needs to be done to end the massive water shortage.

That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As reported, Senator Kerry today proposed adding 40,000 troops to the U.S. Army. It's part of his 11-day campaign in which he will focus on national security. I talked with his foreign policy -- one of his foreign policy advisers, former Defense Secretary William Perry, earlier. I asked him where Senator Kerry plans to find those troops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM PERRY, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: That will require more troops. The Army and the Marines, as your question implied, are heavily overextended today. Our first choice of where to get those other troops are from other nations, in particular, to try to get NATO to take this over as a mission. That could have been done much more readily a year ago than today, but it is not too late to try now.

He's called upon President Bush at the NATO summit meeting next month to make every effort to try to get NATO to take on this task and provide more troops. If that cannot be done then and more troops are required, it is going to be a real strain on the Army to do that. Already, they are pulling a brigade out of Korea, which they would certainly prefer not to do. They can pull Army brigades out of units -- missions they're now performing.

It would require backfilling with reserves and National Guard. It is not the preferred solution. It is going to degrade training and readiness over the long term to do that.

DOBBS: Secretary Colin Powell has said there are many native NATO troops already represented in Iraq. NATO countries, other NATO countries have been resistant to participating or, as Secretary Powell pointed out, simply don't have the wherewithal to join into the coalition. How would Senator Kerry deal with those obstacles?

PERRY: This is a problem every time we try to pull a coalition together, every time we try to get NATO to do anything.

When we had NATO go into Bosnia, it was not easy. It was not simply asking them to do it. It took a lot of diplomatic effort. Winston Churchill once said the problem with allies is that they sometimes have ideas of their own. They do have ideas of their own. And in order to get their support, you have to be able to listen to their ideas, respect their ideas, and whenever feasible, accommodate those ideas.

This administration has not taken the effort to do that. And we are suffering as a consequence.

DOBBS: I think Winston Churchill also said, the only thing worse than having allies is not having allies.

PERRY: We are finding that out, certainly.

DOBBS: How important is border security? What would Senator Kerry do about border security, as well as security at our ports?

PERRY: Since 9/11, my observation is that our homeland security has definitely increased in the area of airport safety. But it has not increased in other important areas. It may even have decreased.

We have, as you know, hundreds of thousand of containers flowing into the country all the time. And they represent a major potential danger to the country.

DOBBS: And how concerned is Senator Kerry, how concerned are you about border security, where almost a million illegal aliens are being apprehended at our nation's borders every year? And, as you know, that implies an equal number at least successfully crossing those borders.

PERRY: I would say the Department of Homeland Security has major programs under way to try to improve the border crossing security.

I can be critical because they've gone more slowly than they ought to go, but I do acknowledge that they have significant programs under way in that regard. And when those programs finally reach maturity, they will probably improve the crossing security, the border line crossing.

DOBBS: Senator Kerry also wants President Bush and promises that he himself would, if elected, confront Saudi Arabia directly on its role in financing and supporting al Qaeda. Exactly how would he do that? What form would it take? What would be the likely result?

PERRY: He's going to have to confront them on specific issues, not on general issues. And the specific issues which I think are the greatest problems are the funding which goes indirectly from their government to terrorist groups and to supporting these schools that nurture and school terrorists.

DOBBS: William Perry, we thank you very much for being here with us here.

PERRY: Thank you, Lou.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And, as we noted, Senator Kerry also called on the United States to reduce significantly its dependence on foreign oil. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll.

The question: Should the United States begin a national program to reduce dependence on foreign oil, even if it means exploiting our own national resources, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Senator John McCain is fielding more questions about the possibility of a Kerry-McCain ticket. Senator Kerry had a somewhat strongly worded, if not tongue-in-cheek response, to a question from last night's NBC's Conan O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O'BRIEN")

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST: There is, first of all, a lot of speculation lately, rumor, speculation, that you might be a vice presidential candidate with John Kerry, form kind of a bipartisan juggernaut. Any truth to that at all?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Look, I spent several years in a North Vietnamese prison camp in the dark, fed with straps. Do you think I want to do that all over again as vice president of the United States?

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Coming up, President Bush's low approval ratings on Iraq are giving Democrats hope of winning more than the White House in November. We'll have that special report.

Also tonight, "Heroes." The A-10 fighter pilot known as "Killer Chick" became a legend after she escaped enemy fire over Baghdad. Now she's back home sharing her remarkable story. And she is our featured hero tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Joining me now for more on the congressional and presidential contest, Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent for "The Los Angeles Times," Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent, "TIME" magazine, joining us tonight from Washington. And here in New York, Mark Morrison, the managing editor of "BusinessWeek" magazine.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

Let me begin, if I may, with you, Karen.

Eight points in the latest CBS poll, the lead of Kerry over Bush. What do you make of it?

KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": Well, I think this is right now all running on the bad news out of Iraq.

But, at this point, it is -- this is someplace that the Kerry people wouldn't have dreamed that they could possibly be a year ago. But they have a lot of challenges ahead of them. So nobody is assuming at this point that this is necessarily going to hold.

DOBBS: And, Ron, what do you make of the remarkable arrival of Senator Tom (sic) Frist, the Senate majority leader, in South Dakota to campaign against the Senate minority leader, Tom Daschle?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, this is the world we live in now in Washington. Many of the old strictures on limits on partisanship have eroded over the years. We're really in an age of sort of unlimited warfare.

And the idea, the traditional that the leadership of one party does not campaign against the other is only the latest of many kind of concessions to comity that have eroded. You have a very tough battle for control of the Senate. Every seat matters. And Senator Frist is reflecting the view of his parties and perhaps of both parties that, in that circumstance, there are basically no boundaries.

Mark Morrison, a lot of critics saying that Senator John Kerry is running too safe a campaign to make headway against President Bush. Yet this latest poll, the CBS poll, at least, shows him with a lead well outside the margin of error.

MARK MORRISON, MANAGING EDITOR, "BUSINESSWEEK": Well, as they say on Wall Street, don't fight the tape. He's getting very good results right now by being fairly quiet.

And I think that's probably wise. Some people say that there are only about 30 percent of the voters really tuned in to what's going on in the election at this point, anyway. The big battle is going to be fought later on. And this is probably good pacing from his standpoint.

DOBBS: Karen, you mentioned the role of Iraq here. Some good news on the economy, 5 percent growth over the past 12 months in the economy. We have seen some resurgence even in employment and manufacturing, but not enough to offset obviously losses over time, but strong growth.

What do you make of the appropriate strategy that the Bush administration should be following?

TUMULTY: Well, the first thing they've got to do is try to get this news out. And you're going to hear the president talking about it quite a bit over the next few weeks, even as he is giving this whole series of foreign policy speeches.

Basically, what he's got to do here is have the country feeling that things are back on the right track. That is the real indicator that the White House is following, much more so than these horse race numbers, which, as I said, are going to swing forward and backward and go in every direction. It's that is the country on the right track number that is the real leading indicator of how the president is doing with the electorate.

DOBBS: And, Ron, as Karen suggests, like the mindless sops journalists that are, we're going to be focusing on that horse race. And the horse race ultimately is determinative of who will be in the White House.

But, at this point, Senator Kerry, it seems to me at least, and I'd love to hear all of you give me your perspective, but it seems to me is starting to differentiate himself in terms of national security, in terms of Iraq, even though he has said he too is committed to Iraq. There seems to be some real differentiation.

Do you see that, Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, I would say -- I will put Iraq aside for a moment and come back to that.

I think that since he effectively won the nomination on March 4, there has been a very clear movement by Senator Kerry to repositioning himself more in the center. He's emphasized fiscal responsibility. He's talked much more about educational accountability. He's tried to be tough on national defense, talking about beefing up our defenses at home, in terms of homeland security and abroad. On Iraq, I think we have seen a somewhat different movement, in part because President Bush has moved closer to where Senator Kerry was in the beginning, in terms of emphasizing the role of the U.N. And Kerry has not gone along with those in the Democratic Party, who are an increasing number, calling for more dramatic breaks from the policy, such as setting a date for withdrawal.

But with the exception of that area, I agree with you, Lou. He is laying some of the groundwork for the fall debate, even though it is somewhat muted now and not in the spotlight. The focus is on the performance of the president, particularly in Iraq. Eventually, Senator Kerry will have to convince Americans he's a reasonable alternative. But right now and indeed probably all the way through, the central issue in this race is the performance of President Bush.

TUMULTY: Ron is right here.

And while Senator Kerry has stepped up his criticism of President Bush's handling of the Iraq policy, I think, for most Americans, it is really very difficult to see precisely what he would do that is different from what Bush would do. It's hard to draw the distinction between his stay the course policy and Bush's. And at a time when still every poll you look at suggests that Americans give Republicans a 10 to 15 percent advantage on national security, this argument that's coming from Democrats where they are asking Kerry to get more specific, get more aggressive is in a way trying to get him to sort of prove to American voters, particularly swing voters, that he can sit in the big chair on national security.

BROWNSTEIN: And yet -- very quickly, just to jump in, Lou, very quickly -- after having all this money dumped on him from the Republican campaign, arguing he's soft on defense, they are very, very reluctant to do anything that would allow President Bush to portray him as essentially abandoning the commitment in Iraq.

So he's sort of caught between his desire not to go too far to President Bush's left and I think a party that is moving in the opposite direction. A majority of Democrats now say we should withdraw in polls.

MORRISON: He's got some real work to do on the economic side, as far as I'm concern. I think that the main things that you think of with Kerry is the probability of higher taxes, yes, fiscal restraint as well -- or fiscal budget balance as well.

But the fact is, he needs to move, in my opinion, more to a Clinton type pro-growth, get a vision out there of the economy or, you know, battling against these strong economic numbers, he's not going to win much on the economy.

DOBBS: There are those who thought he had backed away a bit from his insistence on fair trade. He came out strongly today on CAFTA and against CAFTA and for tree trade. Did that surprise you?

MORRISON: No. I think we expect him to move to the middle on some of these issues. And I think that's an encouraging thing in terms of his chances in November.

DOBBS: Let me quickly ask you, Karen -- and this has to be the last question -- Senator Kerry today said, we are not safer in this country after Iraq. John Dean said the same thing and was hooted off the national stage. I'm sorry, Howard Dean. The fact is, the response has been very muted. What do you think is going on?

TUMULTY: Well, Howard Dean made the mistake of saying that in the days after we captured Saddam Hussein. I think it was a matter of timing more that really did him in.

Senator Kerry is going to point to very specific things, cargo ships that are not being inspected, money that is not being spent on first-responders. And I think, as a result, it's an argument that could get traction.

DOBBS: Karen, Ron, Mark.

Thank you both in Washington.

And thank you here in New York, Mark.

MORRISON: Thank you, Lou.

TUMULTY: Thanks.

DOBBS: President Bush's low approval ratings on Iraq are giving many Democrats some hope of winning more than the White House now in November. Some Democrats actually believe that they could gain seats in the House, possibly retake control of the Senate as well.

Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Turmoil and scandal have hurt the president in the polls. But will they cost Republicans the House and the Senate? Suddenly, Democrats are making parallels to 1994, when Newt Gingrich and the Republicans took the House.

REP. ROBERT MATSUI (D), CALIFORNIA: One issue I think that most pundits haven't really talked about is the fact that this time the Republicans have the White House, the House and Senate. They control the government of the country.

And as a result of that, the Republican Party in the House, Senate and White House will be responsible for what is going on. The American public knows that.

VILES: While national polls are encouraging the Democrats, these are not national elections and some election year realities favor the GOP.

CHRISTINE IVERSON, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: If the election were held today, there is no doubt that we would not only hang on to our majorities in the House and the Senate, but believe we would actually pick up seats in both chambers.

VILES: In the House, Democrats need to pick up 12 seats, and redistricting puts a handful of Democrats on the offensive in the president's home state of Texas.

In the Senate where Republicans now have 51 seats, 19 Democratic seats are up for grabs, only 15 Republican seats. And five southern Democrats are retiring: Graham in Florida, Hollings in South Carolina, Edwards in North Carolina, Miller in Georgia and Breaux in Louisiana.

Another Democratic seat in play, Tom Daschle's in South Dakota. That's six seats rated as vulnerable by the Cook political report, which only rates four Republican seats as vulnerable: Illinois, Colorado, Oklahoma, and Alaska.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: An event to watch next week, special election in South Dakota to fill the House seat being vacated by Bill Janklow. And polls do show the Democratic candidate leading in that heavily Republican, pro-Bush state -- Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you very much, Peter Viles.

Still ahead here, the battle over whether the United States military should use bullets made by foreign defense contractors. We'll be joined by the House Armed Services Committee chairman, Congressman Duncan Hunter. He has some strong views on the matter.

And "Water Wars." In the drought ravaged western United States, the federal government may have to force a deal to end the fight for scarce water from the Colorado River.

And a Memorial Day tribute to the millions of Americans who served this country in World War II. A new memorial is opening on the National Mall.

Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur played the key role in making it a reality. She's our guest tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The United States is becoming increasingly dependent on foreign defense contractors for military equipment.

As we reported here last night, the U.S. Army may soon be buying bullets from Israel and Canada because the existing ammunition just simply isn't adequate and the U.S. plant can't keep up with demand.

The Air Force urgently needs a new tanker aircraft to replace its 40-year-old fleet. One of the leading contenders for that contract, of course, is the Boeing 767. But that's been pushed back. Europe's Airbus says it's willing to step in.

The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Duncan Hunter, is one of the strongest supporters of keeping American defense jobs in this country, keeping America's military self-reliant and independent.

Congressman Hunter joins us now.

Good to have you here.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Good to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: Let's start with the ammunition. The idea that we have troops committed all around the world in two wars and fighting a global war on terror and we're running out of ammunition and have to turn to foreign contractors. How in the world did that happen?

HUNTER: Yes. Well, first, we shouldn't use any -- we shouldn't have any foreign dependence with respect to critical assets. And ammunition certainly falls into that -- into that category.

Coming out of the 1990s, Lou, we had roughly -- the specific figures are classified. But we had roughly a $10 billion shortage of ammo.

And you've got to give the Bush administration some credit. The president did start -- order that those ammo supplies start building back up. And he's done that each year, and especially in the precision munitions.

Those JDAMs, Joint Direct Attack Munitions that go in and take out a tank 30 miles ahead of the troops, those have been built up considerably. So they do need to have some credit on that.

But we've got old ammo plants. And what we did this year in the House defense bill that we just passed 60-0 in the committee and almost unanimously on the House floor. About 30 people voted against it, but it's now passed.

We put in $59 million to capitalize and rebuild these aging ammo plants. So we're going to -- we're going to do everything we can. And if we have to have round the clock shifts building ammo in America, that's much preferable to buying ammo from Israel, Russia or any other foreign source.

DOBBS: Would you include Canada in that?

HUNTER: Absolutely. Canada is obviously closer to us. They like to consider themselves part of the American base.

But I'm reminded, Lou, when we went off to fight in Iraq, Canada decided not to be part of the team. They call themselves part of America's industrial base when they're selling us things. But when we go out and have to -- have to shed some blood and take some bullets, the Canadians often hang back.

DOBBS: What is the reaction of you and your members of your committee and the attitude of Congress right now on the fact that the administration has forestalled letting a contract for new helicopters to -- for Marine One, for the presidential fleet, the idea that the European Airbus would be considered for fleet tankers for the U.S. military.

This is remarkable stuff to many people.

HUNTER: Well, I think that, definitely -- and let me just tell you that as long as I'm chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and I think most members of the Armed Services Committee feel the same way.

There's not going to be a French tanker being flown in the United States military, being built for the United States military.

I've heard some rumblings to that effect. But I've sent a letter to the secretary on that. And I'll tell you, there's going to be any votes on the House side to do that. And if it's attempted, I think it will be blocked.

But you know, John Kerry now, as I understand, calls himself a free trader, while he says he's against CAFTA.

I'm not a free trader. And I remember my dad came back from World War II, who could have bought foreign steel for 50 percent of what it cost in the U.S., always bought American steel. Incidentally made a lot of money while he was doing it.

And he always said, "I want American workers to be able to buy my houses."

I think this is an era, Lou, when Americans are going to start pulling together. And I've talked to a lot of our leaders in the aerospace industry, the guys at -- And a lot of these big companies fly two different flags. For example, Boeing, when they're -- when the possibility of Airbus taking some of their action arises, they want to wrap themselves in the American flag, buy America.

But when they have a chance to go off and buy a component that's made foreign so they can have a larger profit margin, all of a sudden they embrace free trade. And so they have two different sets of lobbyists working Capitol Hill. May they never meet.

I think it's time for Americans, right up through our CEOs in the top aerospace companies, to start pulling together. And that means instead of going out and buying that Mitsubishi machine tool, you say, "Wait a minute. What do U.S. companies make? What can we get in this Ohio base of machine tool companies."

And we did pass a provision last year that I authored, Lou, in the defense bill that said that if you buy an American machine tool and you're in a competition for a defense contract, that gives you a leg up. You get a preference point for buying American machine tools.

So we've made a little headway there. We're going to continue to do that. And I think the spirit of this country is to start pulling together.

DOBBS: And it's, as they say, well nigh time. Congressman Duncan Hunter, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, thanks for being here.

HUNTER: Good to be with you.

DOBBS: Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Harvey in Newton, Massachusetts wrote in to say, "Interesting that the Pentagon may buy bullets from Canada. Aren't they worried about the quality of those bullets? They certainly are concerned about those prescription drugs imported from Canada.

Raymond Finney of Pagosa Springs, Colorado, "Lou, if we need more bullets, let's buy them in the United States or Canada. The irony of buying bullets from Israel for the war in Iraq would be the frosting on Bush's foreign policy cake."

And Edward Gaddis in Lancaster, California: "I watch your program every day, and I find myself agreeing with you almost -- find myself agreeing with almost everything you say. How can this be if I'm a Democrat and you're a Republican?"

Well, that's part of what makes America great and, hopefully, more of us will begin to do just that. That is, agree.

Send us your thoughts: LouDobbs@CNN.com. We'll share some more of your e-mails later here in the broadcast.

Still ahead, "Water Wars." The federal government is trying to broker a new water deal in the drought-stricken west. Cities are scrambling to find water. Twenty-five million people are absolutely riveted on the answers that government provide.

Veterans gathering for the dedication of the World War II memorial in Washington. I'll be talking with Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur. She first proposed building the memorial nearly two decades ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight, we conclude our series of special reports, "Water Wars."

We focused all week on the western drought and the 25 million people who depend upon the Colorado River for their water. Tonight, the historic document that governs the river's water is under attack. And old rivalries over water are resurfacing, and with a vengeance, now that it's increasingly scarce.

Casey Wian reports from Riverside, California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From water rationing to ranchers selling out to developers, the drought's effects are being magnified by the 80-yea-old law of the river.

President Hoover in seven states agreed to split the Colorado River's water between those in its upper and lower basin. Since then, the deal has been modified several times. Lake Powell and Lake Head have been built to store water for the west's rapidly growing cities.

It's kept farmers and developers, state and Indian nations, from all-out water wars. But the drought and the declining levels of Mead are reviving old disputes.

PAT MULROY, SOUTHERN NEVADA WATER AUTHORITY: Let me spell it out for you because it's really ugly.

Let's assume we have two more really ugly winters and Powell goes down to the dead pool. That means no water can come -- there's no water in Powell to move to Mead.

At that point, you shut off all upper basin uses. Period. Now comes the obtuse priority system in the lower basin.

SID WILSON, CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT: Under the priority system that's in place, Arizona could lose its entire 1.5 million feet of water a year before California loses a bucket of their entitlement.

MULROY: That system may have sounded good in 1929, but I would venture to say that that makes absolutely no sense in the modern United States.

WIAN (on camera): California receives the biggest portion of the Colorado River's water, nearly 15 times as much as Nevada. Water is delivered here by an aqueduct that cuts through 242 miles of desert.

(voice-over) Before the drought, the Colorado also produced excess water, and California often took more than its share. It already had to give that up. Its neighbors are thirsting for more.

The federal government has identified dozens of hot spots where water wars are likely over the next two decades. It's now trying to broker a new water sharing deal.

GALE NORTON, INTERIOR SECRETARY: We've met with states and local governments, environmental groups, farmers, ranchers, all sorts of organizations across the West, and people have been very enthusiastic about the need to get together and to have some plans.

WIAN: If states can't agree among themselves, Norton has the power to force a deal. Meanwhile, western cities are scrambling to find more water with proposals ranging from restarting mothballed desalination plants to cloud seating and, of course, praying for rain.

Casey Wian, CNN, Riverside, California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: And turning to our poll, the question tonight: "Should the United States begin a national program to reduce dependence on foreign oil, even if it means exploiting our own natural resources?"

Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results coming up later.

Coming up next, already a hero at 28, one young fighter pilot ready to return to the skies over Iraq. We'll have her remarkable story in "Heroes."

And 60 years later, a stunning tribute to the men and the women who served this country in World War II. Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur led the effort to build the memorial. She's our guest tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Ahead of this Memorial Day weekend, little movement on Wall Street today.

The Dow fell nearly 17 points. The Dow ended the week, however, up more than two percent. The NASDAQ up more than two points today, but gaining nearly four percent on the week. The S&P virtually unchanged, but up 2.5 percent.

Let's take a quick look at some of your thoughts on CAFTA.

Amy in Nottingham, New Hampshire, "Lou, it's clear that the people that will benefit the most from CAFTA are the businesses that exploit the cheap foreign laborers, ship the product back to the United States and then sell it here at a price that would reflect it was made here in the United States."

Caitlin Wright, Brighton, Massachusetts, "We should we be patting ourselves on the back for taking away U.S. jobs and exploiting poverty stricken countries by providing them with less than a dollar an hour jobs and polluting their environment."

Eugene Womack, Myers Flat, California: "CAFTA or NAFTA, it doesn't matter. Neither should have been passed or considered, because they only legalize the outsourcing of American jobs."

Christopher Toughill of Cape Coral, Florida, "Lou, perhaps we should call free trade "flee trade, because our jobs continue to jump ship. Or maybe just call it what it is: government sanctioned trading of America's economic base and infrastructure for short term, unsustainable corporate profits."

Send us your thoughts at CNN -- at LouDobbs@CNN.com.

This Memorial Day weekend is one of particular significance to the surviving World War II veterans and their families and, indeed, to the nation.

Nearly 60 years after the war, hundreds of thousands of people are expected to gather in Washington, D.C., for the dedication of the memorial. The site honors the 16 million Americans who served and features 4,000 Bronze Stars. Each star represents 100 troops lost.

The centerpiece of the memorial is the refurbished Rainbow Pool, designed to allow for quiet reflection. My guest tonight spearheaded the campaign to build this memorial. And it took her almost two decades to get it done. And get it done, she did.

Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur of Ohio joins us tonight from the memorial in Washington.

Well, first, congratulations to you, congresswoman. You introduced the legislation 17 years ago. Now, it's a reality. As you stand there tonight, what are your emotions?

REP. MARCY KAPTUR (D), OHIO: Yes, I guess I could say my cup runneth over tonight.

We have been down on the plaza. We've been talking with veterans and their families and their grandchildren all day long. It's almost more than one person can totally assimilate in a day, Lou.

This is really America's way of saying to the World War II generation, a grateful nation remembers. We thank you. This is our prayer of thanksgiving to you. We hope that you feel it's sufficient for what you have given to us.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Kaptur, when you first introduced the legislation, what motivated you to do so? Why did you do so?

KAPTUR: Well, I think it was a combination of factors. There was a beautiful veteran in my district named Roger Durbin, who approached me at a township trustees annual meeting and asked me why there was no World War II memorial in Washington where he could bring his grandchildren.

And I said, "Sir, there is a memorial. It's Iwo Jima."

He said wrong. That's to one service and one campaign. And he really got me to thinking. And our own family -- Uncle Stanley Rigowski (ph) and Uncle Anthon Rigowski (ph) had both fought, one in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific, wounded.

Our father's best friend killed. It was down in the Philippines. And John Kaptur our first cousin, and the landing in America Samoa -- I was a history major in college, studied the history of World War II.

So when Roger talked to me, it was as though everything came together at that one moment in 1987. And I thought, you know, he has a point. What happened? And why wasn't it done?

And I realized that this generation is the most unselfish generation America has ever had. They would never ask for themselves. So it was up to us, the baby boomers, to do it for them.

DOBBS: And you got it done. And again, our congratulations. And it's wonderful to hear that one person can inspire, as your constituent did, you, that one congresswoman can get it done. Still, that gives us faith in our system of government as well. Let me ask you, a number of people have criticized the memorial for its architecture, for various things. But everyone who's seen it, to my knowledge, has reacted positively, the veterans themselves.

KAPTUR: Yes. If you come down here on site, there is no way that you will not be welcomed. You will feel the site envelope you. It is a very, very peaceful and respectful place. You can look at the Washington Monument, you can look at the Lincoln Memorial.

And this memorial will mark the -- it will really be America's expression of victory, of liberty over tyranny in the 20th Century. You look at the Washington Monument, the founding of the republic, the Lincoln Memorial, the preservation of the union. Our whole history comes together here.

DOBBS: Congresswoman, we thank you very much. And again, we look forward to what we know will be an inspiring weekend.

And we're going to turn to one of the heroes that we celebrate each week here. Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur, thank you.

In our "Heroes" segment tonight, we focus on a young pilot who's preparing to return to Iraq.

We first met Captain Kim Campbell while she was serving in Iraq last April, at the height of military operations in Iraq. Now, she's back home at North Carolina. Captain Campbell, known as Killer Chick, said she's willing and ready to return to the fight.

Gary Tuchman has her story from Pope Air Force Base, North Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: During the peak of the air war over Iraq, A-10 pilot Kim Campbell's life hung in balance on a cloudy April night over Baghdad.

(on camera) Do you think you're a hero?

CAPT. KIM CAMPBELL, U.S. AIR FORCE: No, not at all. I think to me, I was doing my job that day. And I'm very lucky to be back home.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Luck had something to do with it. But Air Force colleagues say heroism did, too.

Captain Campbell, also known as Killer Chick, or KC, was hit by Iraqi fire over Baghdad. Her attack jet lost its hydraulic power. CNN was embedded with her squadron at the base on the Iraqi border where she safely landed.

(on camera) Do you think that you were going to be able to make it back or that you'd have to eject from the plane?

CAMPBELL: There was a quick second where I knew it was a possibility. But in my mind I knew I had no desire to eject over Baghdad.

The experts believe that a surface-to-air missile impacted somewhere in this area and then, as it hit, it sent shrapnel from the missile into both the inside of the right tail and also the fuselage here.

TUCHMAN: KC is now back at North Carolina's Pope Air Force base with her new A-10. Home since July, she says she remains a strong supporter of the U.S. role in Iraq.

CAMPBELL: No one said this was going to be easy. And you know, we know it's going to be tough. And we'll be there as long as the mission calls for it.

TUCHMAN: The 28-year-old has received awards and accolades. She makes two to three speeches a month while continuing her training.

CAMPBELL: Our squadron will most likely be deploying later on this year. And I'm more than happy to go back.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Would your family like to see you not fly combat missions any more?

CAMPBELL: They know that I love what I do. And they know that I'm willing to take risks, and this is something that I would be willing to give my life for, because I believe in it.

And you know, my parents aren't going to tell me that I can't do it. Certainly not at age 28, anyway.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Tuchman, CNN, Pope Air Force Base, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The result of our poll: 60 percent of you say we should reduce our dependence on foreign oil at the expense of our own national resources.

Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, have a safe, pleasant Memorial Day weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired May 28, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, no more limited sovereignty for Iraq on June 30. President Bush says the Iraqis can have full and complete sovereignty.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our coalition will transfer full sovereignty, complete and full sovereignty, to an Iraqi government.

DOBBS: The Army running out of bullets and may have to buy ammunition from foreign countries. The Air Force may buy a tanker aircraft from Europe. The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee says, enough. He wants the U.S. military to be self-reliant and he wants American defense jobs to stay in this country. Congressman Duncan Hunter is our guest.

Senator John Kerry on the attack, calling for rebuilding of alliances, lowering our dependence on foreign oil, and increasing the size of the U.S. military. Kerry adviser and former Defense Secretary William Perry joins us.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe they have made America less safe, not more safe, with their blustering, arrogant foreign policy.

DOBBS: The United States signs CAFTA, a free trade agreement with Central America that still requires the approval of Congress. Critics say the deal will lower the wages of American workers and undermine our environmental protections.

And nearly 60 years after the end of World War II, veterans finally have a Washington memorial to honor their service and sacrifice. Those veterans and the rest of the nation have one woman to thank, Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur. She's our guest tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, May 28. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

President Bush today promised to transfer full and complete sovereignty to Iraq on June 30. President Bush also said the United States is now working closely with other countries to secure a United Nations resolution on Iraq. The president's comments were targeted at members of the U.N. Security Council, who still doubt the United States will hand over complete control to the Iraqis.

White House correspondent Dana Bash reports -- Dana Bash.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the president came out to the Rose Garden today with the Danish prime minister and struck quite a conciliatory tone.

The issue, of course, is the U.N. Security Council, as you mentioned, trying to get a new resolution there. And there are still major differences there, primarily over how much control the new Iraqi government will have over U.S. troops. But Mr. Bush tried to be crystal clear that there is in no way any sense that there will be limited sovereignty.

He said that the Iraqis will have full political control, just as key members of the U.N. Security Council are asking for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I told the prime minister that our government and our coalition will transfer full sovereignty, complete and full sovereignty, to a Iraqi government that will be picked by Mr. Brahimi of the United Nations. He said, do you mean full sovereignty. I said, I mean full sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, the president said he had those same reassuring words for the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. He put a phone call into Mr. Putin today, another key member of the U.N. Security Council. And all of this, of course, is aimed at getting a new U.N. blessing for the plan moving forward in Iraq to transfer sovereignty. That is a plan that the White House says that they have given over to the special envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi.

Now, this is a place that Bush officials admit they did not expect to be leading up to the war when they issued ultimatums like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding or will it be irrelevant?

The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities. So we will rise to ours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: But the postwar situation, obviously, has not gone exactly as they had planned. It has been much more difficult. And even conservatives, Lou, in the president's own party who are not big fans of the U.N. are now saying that it is important for the president to be practical. They understand that he's going back to the U.N. And they say it is necessary in order to get him out of this corner they say he's in -- Lou.

DOBBS: Dana Bash, let me ask you, obviously, a point of difference between Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom and the president on the issue of the veto, Iraqi veto, of U.S. military operations. Does the president's statements today, do they mean that, indeed, the Iraqis will have veto power over U.S. military operations?

BASH: Well, the devil obviously is in the details.

Rhetorically, the White House is trying to, as I said, be as conciliatory as possible. In terms of the details of the U.N. resolution, the secretary of state did say today that he's willing to make changes. The White House is saying the same thing. But whether or not they're going to write that into a resolution, that the Iraqis will have more control than the U.S. had planned over their troops, that's a question that's still very much open, Lou.

DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash from the White House.

In Baghdad today, a major step toward the creation of an interim Iraqi government. The Iraqi Governing Council nominated a former Iraqi exile to be prime minister when the coalition hands over power and sovereignty. Iyad Allawi is the founder of the Iraqi National Accord. He survived an assassination attempt by Saddam Hussein's secret police in London 25 years ago.

Allawi will be the first Iraqi other than Saddam Hussein to lead Iraq in more than three decades.

Insurgents today attacked American troops in Najaf, breaking a one-day-old cease-fire agreement. And the nearby city of Kufa, two U.S. soldiers were wounded in clashes between American troops and gunmen loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr.

Jane Arraf reports from Najaf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Mortars were fired again this morning at the U.S. base in Najaf. Nine mortar rounds hit the base, military officials say, and rocket-propelled grenades fired here as well.

They detained four suspected militia members in Kufa near Najaf. And in detaining them and questioning them they say that the men said they hadn't received any word that they should lay down their arms and stop fighting.

Military officials say it seems as if the word clearly has not gotten out to all of the militia members or it's possible that Muqtada al-Sadr doesn't have control of all the militia members. They are waiting to see if they can have more proof that this is indeed an agreement that the militia is to disband. On the political side, still some items to pinned down in that agreement, it is coming together between Sadr and religious authorities in Najaf. A couple of areas of disagreement still are what leeway U.S. forces would have in the city. They say they need freedom of movement to avoid a security gap. And assurances that the militia within Najaf would clearly and categorically lay down their arms.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Senator Kerry today accused President Bush of undermining this country's safety by -- quote -- "rushing off to war in Iraq." Senator Kerry pledged to increase the size of the active-duty Army by 40,000 soldiers to ease the burden of wartime service that is now on the National Guard and Reserves.

We apologize for those audio problems. Senator Kerry also spoke out against an issue we've been reporting here all week, the Central American Free Trade Agreement, or CAFTA. The United States today signed this latest free trade agreement with five Central American countries. Senator Kerry said CAFTA is a step backwards on the road to fair trade. The Bush administration, for its part, says today's agreement will benefit all Americans. But critics say there are no winners.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the fun part, a celebratory handshake after signing the trade agreement. The hard part is trying to convince Congress to back the deal. CAFTA promises to open up new markets for U.S. goods and reduce poverty in central America.

ROBERT ZOELLICK, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: Today, with a signature and a handshake, we are bridging those divides. We are linking our histories and we are lowering the walls that separate us.

SYLVESTER: But lowering the economic walls is what concerns protesters, a fear the trade deal with lower U.S. wages and environmental standards. And with the U.S. trade deficit in record territory, there's limited support on Capitol Hill for a vote this here.

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: I would love nothing more to have an aggressive, robust debate about our trade policies that have now resulted in just last month having a one-month trade deficit that's nearly $46 billion. That is an unforgivable failure, in my judgment, and one that we ought to debate.

SYLVESTER: The U.S. trade representative's office is trying to blunt criticism.

CHRIS PADILLA, ASSISTANT U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: Almost all Central American products imported to this country today come in duty free. We already have nearly free trade one way. What this agreement is about is opening Central America's market to our products and services. And that's important for Americans.

SYLVESTER: But it is a hard sell considering the results of the North American Free Trade Agreement with Mexico. A $1 billion trade surplus has become a $40 billion deficit, nearly 900,000 jobs lost in the United States, and although the agreement was supposed to leave Mexicans better off, wages there fell. Central Americans are not thrilled to face the same fate.

OSCAR CHACON, SALVADORAN AMERICAN: I that am driving a tricycle, I am asked to compete with somebody who is driving a late-model Mercedes-Benz. And we both are going to compete in the same circuit. And do I have a chance to win?

SYLVESTER: CAFTA's battle is not only in Congress, but also in Central America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: CAFTA also faces a battle on the campaign trade. Lou, as you mentioned, Senator Kerry is on the record saying he is for free trade, but he opposes the CAFTA agreement and would renegotiate the deal if he's elected -- Lou.

DOBBS: Senator Kerry is now talking a lot about fair trade, as are some members even of this administration. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.

Still ahead here, Senator Kerry launches an offensive against President Bush's foreign and national security policies. Kerry adviser former Defense Secretary William Perry is our guest.

America's fighting men and women may soon need foreign bullets to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman Duncan Hunter, wants the U.S. military to be self-reliant. He joins us.

And water wars. A six-year drought in the Western states, a struggle for survival for many. But federal and local authorities can't agree on what needs to be done to end the massive water shortage.

That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As reported, Senator Kerry today proposed adding 40,000 troops to the U.S. Army. It's part of his 11-day campaign in which he will focus on national security. I talked with his foreign policy -- one of his foreign policy advisers, former Defense Secretary William Perry, earlier. I asked him where Senator Kerry plans to find those troops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM PERRY, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: That will require more troops. The Army and the Marines, as your question implied, are heavily overextended today. Our first choice of where to get those other troops are from other nations, in particular, to try to get NATO to take this over as a mission. That could have been done much more readily a year ago than today, but it is not too late to try now.

He's called upon President Bush at the NATO summit meeting next month to make every effort to try to get NATO to take on this task and provide more troops. If that cannot be done then and more troops are required, it is going to be a real strain on the Army to do that. Already, they are pulling a brigade out of Korea, which they would certainly prefer not to do. They can pull Army brigades out of units -- missions they're now performing.

It would require backfilling with reserves and National Guard. It is not the preferred solution. It is going to degrade training and readiness over the long term to do that.

DOBBS: Secretary Colin Powell has said there are many native NATO troops already represented in Iraq. NATO countries, other NATO countries have been resistant to participating or, as Secretary Powell pointed out, simply don't have the wherewithal to join into the coalition. How would Senator Kerry deal with those obstacles?

PERRY: This is a problem every time we try to pull a coalition together, every time we try to get NATO to do anything.

When we had NATO go into Bosnia, it was not easy. It was not simply asking them to do it. It took a lot of diplomatic effort. Winston Churchill once said the problem with allies is that they sometimes have ideas of their own. They do have ideas of their own. And in order to get their support, you have to be able to listen to their ideas, respect their ideas, and whenever feasible, accommodate those ideas.

This administration has not taken the effort to do that. And we are suffering as a consequence.

DOBBS: I think Winston Churchill also said, the only thing worse than having allies is not having allies.

PERRY: We are finding that out, certainly.

DOBBS: How important is border security? What would Senator Kerry do about border security, as well as security at our ports?

PERRY: Since 9/11, my observation is that our homeland security has definitely increased in the area of airport safety. But it has not increased in other important areas. It may even have decreased.

We have, as you know, hundreds of thousand of containers flowing into the country all the time. And they represent a major potential danger to the country.

DOBBS: And how concerned is Senator Kerry, how concerned are you about border security, where almost a million illegal aliens are being apprehended at our nation's borders every year? And, as you know, that implies an equal number at least successfully crossing those borders.

PERRY: I would say the Department of Homeland Security has major programs under way to try to improve the border crossing security.

I can be critical because they've gone more slowly than they ought to go, but I do acknowledge that they have significant programs under way in that regard. And when those programs finally reach maturity, they will probably improve the crossing security, the border line crossing.

DOBBS: Senator Kerry also wants President Bush and promises that he himself would, if elected, confront Saudi Arabia directly on its role in financing and supporting al Qaeda. Exactly how would he do that? What form would it take? What would be the likely result?

PERRY: He's going to have to confront them on specific issues, not on general issues. And the specific issues which I think are the greatest problems are the funding which goes indirectly from their government to terrorist groups and to supporting these schools that nurture and school terrorists.

DOBBS: William Perry, we thank you very much for being here with us here.

PERRY: Thank you, Lou.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And, as we noted, Senator Kerry also called on the United States to reduce significantly its dependence on foreign oil. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll.

The question: Should the United States begin a national program to reduce dependence on foreign oil, even if it means exploiting our own national resources, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Senator John McCain is fielding more questions about the possibility of a Kerry-McCain ticket. Senator Kerry had a somewhat strongly worded, if not tongue-in-cheek response, to a question from last night's NBC's Conan O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O'BRIEN")

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST: There is, first of all, a lot of speculation lately, rumor, speculation, that you might be a vice presidential candidate with John Kerry, form kind of a bipartisan juggernaut. Any truth to that at all?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Look, I spent several years in a North Vietnamese prison camp in the dark, fed with straps. Do you think I want to do that all over again as vice president of the United States?

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Coming up, President Bush's low approval ratings on Iraq are giving Democrats hope of winning more than the White House in November. We'll have that special report.

Also tonight, "Heroes." The A-10 fighter pilot known as "Killer Chick" became a legend after she escaped enemy fire over Baghdad. Now she's back home sharing her remarkable story. And she is our featured hero tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Joining me now for more on the congressional and presidential contest, Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent for "The Los Angeles Times," Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent, "TIME" magazine, joining us tonight from Washington. And here in New York, Mark Morrison, the managing editor of "BusinessWeek" magazine.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

Let me begin, if I may, with you, Karen.

Eight points in the latest CBS poll, the lead of Kerry over Bush. What do you make of it?

KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": Well, I think this is right now all running on the bad news out of Iraq.

But, at this point, it is -- this is someplace that the Kerry people wouldn't have dreamed that they could possibly be a year ago. But they have a lot of challenges ahead of them. So nobody is assuming at this point that this is necessarily going to hold.

DOBBS: And, Ron, what do you make of the remarkable arrival of Senator Tom (sic) Frist, the Senate majority leader, in South Dakota to campaign against the Senate minority leader, Tom Daschle?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, this is the world we live in now in Washington. Many of the old strictures on limits on partisanship have eroded over the years. We're really in an age of sort of unlimited warfare.

And the idea, the traditional that the leadership of one party does not campaign against the other is only the latest of many kind of concessions to comity that have eroded. You have a very tough battle for control of the Senate. Every seat matters. And Senator Frist is reflecting the view of his parties and perhaps of both parties that, in that circumstance, there are basically no boundaries.

Mark Morrison, a lot of critics saying that Senator John Kerry is running too safe a campaign to make headway against President Bush. Yet this latest poll, the CBS poll, at least, shows him with a lead well outside the margin of error.

MARK MORRISON, MANAGING EDITOR, "BUSINESSWEEK": Well, as they say on Wall Street, don't fight the tape. He's getting very good results right now by being fairly quiet.

And I think that's probably wise. Some people say that there are only about 30 percent of the voters really tuned in to what's going on in the election at this point, anyway. The big battle is going to be fought later on. And this is probably good pacing from his standpoint.

DOBBS: Karen, you mentioned the role of Iraq here. Some good news on the economy, 5 percent growth over the past 12 months in the economy. We have seen some resurgence even in employment and manufacturing, but not enough to offset obviously losses over time, but strong growth.

What do you make of the appropriate strategy that the Bush administration should be following?

TUMULTY: Well, the first thing they've got to do is try to get this news out. And you're going to hear the president talking about it quite a bit over the next few weeks, even as he is giving this whole series of foreign policy speeches.

Basically, what he's got to do here is have the country feeling that things are back on the right track. That is the real indicator that the White House is following, much more so than these horse race numbers, which, as I said, are going to swing forward and backward and go in every direction. It's that is the country on the right track number that is the real leading indicator of how the president is doing with the electorate.

DOBBS: And, Ron, as Karen suggests, like the mindless sops journalists that are, we're going to be focusing on that horse race. And the horse race ultimately is determinative of who will be in the White House.

But, at this point, Senator Kerry, it seems to me at least, and I'd love to hear all of you give me your perspective, but it seems to me is starting to differentiate himself in terms of national security, in terms of Iraq, even though he has said he too is committed to Iraq. There seems to be some real differentiation.

Do you see that, Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, I would say -- I will put Iraq aside for a moment and come back to that.

I think that since he effectively won the nomination on March 4, there has been a very clear movement by Senator Kerry to repositioning himself more in the center. He's emphasized fiscal responsibility. He's talked much more about educational accountability. He's tried to be tough on national defense, talking about beefing up our defenses at home, in terms of homeland security and abroad. On Iraq, I think we have seen a somewhat different movement, in part because President Bush has moved closer to where Senator Kerry was in the beginning, in terms of emphasizing the role of the U.N. And Kerry has not gone along with those in the Democratic Party, who are an increasing number, calling for more dramatic breaks from the policy, such as setting a date for withdrawal.

But with the exception of that area, I agree with you, Lou. He is laying some of the groundwork for the fall debate, even though it is somewhat muted now and not in the spotlight. The focus is on the performance of the president, particularly in Iraq. Eventually, Senator Kerry will have to convince Americans he's a reasonable alternative. But right now and indeed probably all the way through, the central issue in this race is the performance of President Bush.

TUMULTY: Ron is right here.

And while Senator Kerry has stepped up his criticism of President Bush's handling of the Iraq policy, I think, for most Americans, it is really very difficult to see precisely what he would do that is different from what Bush would do. It's hard to draw the distinction between his stay the course policy and Bush's. And at a time when still every poll you look at suggests that Americans give Republicans a 10 to 15 percent advantage on national security, this argument that's coming from Democrats where they are asking Kerry to get more specific, get more aggressive is in a way trying to get him to sort of prove to American voters, particularly swing voters, that he can sit in the big chair on national security.

BROWNSTEIN: And yet -- very quickly, just to jump in, Lou, very quickly -- after having all this money dumped on him from the Republican campaign, arguing he's soft on defense, they are very, very reluctant to do anything that would allow President Bush to portray him as essentially abandoning the commitment in Iraq.

So he's sort of caught between his desire not to go too far to President Bush's left and I think a party that is moving in the opposite direction. A majority of Democrats now say we should withdraw in polls.

MORRISON: He's got some real work to do on the economic side, as far as I'm concern. I think that the main things that you think of with Kerry is the probability of higher taxes, yes, fiscal restraint as well -- or fiscal budget balance as well.

But the fact is, he needs to move, in my opinion, more to a Clinton type pro-growth, get a vision out there of the economy or, you know, battling against these strong economic numbers, he's not going to win much on the economy.

DOBBS: There are those who thought he had backed away a bit from his insistence on fair trade. He came out strongly today on CAFTA and against CAFTA and for tree trade. Did that surprise you?

MORRISON: No. I think we expect him to move to the middle on some of these issues. And I think that's an encouraging thing in terms of his chances in November.

DOBBS: Let me quickly ask you, Karen -- and this has to be the last question -- Senator Kerry today said, we are not safer in this country after Iraq. John Dean said the same thing and was hooted off the national stage. I'm sorry, Howard Dean. The fact is, the response has been very muted. What do you think is going on?

TUMULTY: Well, Howard Dean made the mistake of saying that in the days after we captured Saddam Hussein. I think it was a matter of timing more that really did him in.

Senator Kerry is going to point to very specific things, cargo ships that are not being inspected, money that is not being spent on first-responders. And I think, as a result, it's an argument that could get traction.

DOBBS: Karen, Ron, Mark.

Thank you both in Washington.

And thank you here in New York, Mark.

MORRISON: Thank you, Lou.

TUMULTY: Thanks.

DOBBS: President Bush's low approval ratings on Iraq are giving many Democrats some hope of winning more than the White House now in November. Some Democrats actually believe that they could gain seats in the House, possibly retake control of the Senate as well.

Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Turmoil and scandal have hurt the president in the polls. But will they cost Republicans the House and the Senate? Suddenly, Democrats are making parallels to 1994, when Newt Gingrich and the Republicans took the House.

REP. ROBERT MATSUI (D), CALIFORNIA: One issue I think that most pundits haven't really talked about is the fact that this time the Republicans have the White House, the House and Senate. They control the government of the country.

And as a result of that, the Republican Party in the House, Senate and White House will be responsible for what is going on. The American public knows that.

VILES: While national polls are encouraging the Democrats, these are not national elections and some election year realities favor the GOP.

CHRISTINE IVERSON, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: If the election were held today, there is no doubt that we would not only hang on to our majorities in the House and the Senate, but believe we would actually pick up seats in both chambers.

VILES: In the House, Democrats need to pick up 12 seats, and redistricting puts a handful of Democrats on the offensive in the president's home state of Texas.

In the Senate where Republicans now have 51 seats, 19 Democratic seats are up for grabs, only 15 Republican seats. And five southern Democrats are retiring: Graham in Florida, Hollings in South Carolina, Edwards in North Carolina, Miller in Georgia and Breaux in Louisiana.

Another Democratic seat in play, Tom Daschle's in South Dakota. That's six seats rated as vulnerable by the Cook political report, which only rates four Republican seats as vulnerable: Illinois, Colorado, Oklahoma, and Alaska.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: An event to watch next week, special election in South Dakota to fill the House seat being vacated by Bill Janklow. And polls do show the Democratic candidate leading in that heavily Republican, pro-Bush state -- Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you very much, Peter Viles.

Still ahead here, the battle over whether the United States military should use bullets made by foreign defense contractors. We'll be joined by the House Armed Services Committee chairman, Congressman Duncan Hunter. He has some strong views on the matter.

And "Water Wars." In the drought ravaged western United States, the federal government may have to force a deal to end the fight for scarce water from the Colorado River.

And a Memorial Day tribute to the millions of Americans who served this country in World War II. A new memorial is opening on the National Mall.

Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur played the key role in making it a reality. She's our guest tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The United States is becoming increasingly dependent on foreign defense contractors for military equipment.

As we reported here last night, the U.S. Army may soon be buying bullets from Israel and Canada because the existing ammunition just simply isn't adequate and the U.S. plant can't keep up with demand.

The Air Force urgently needs a new tanker aircraft to replace its 40-year-old fleet. One of the leading contenders for that contract, of course, is the Boeing 767. But that's been pushed back. Europe's Airbus says it's willing to step in.

The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Duncan Hunter, is one of the strongest supporters of keeping American defense jobs in this country, keeping America's military self-reliant and independent.

Congressman Hunter joins us now.

Good to have you here.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Good to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: Let's start with the ammunition. The idea that we have troops committed all around the world in two wars and fighting a global war on terror and we're running out of ammunition and have to turn to foreign contractors. How in the world did that happen?

HUNTER: Yes. Well, first, we shouldn't use any -- we shouldn't have any foreign dependence with respect to critical assets. And ammunition certainly falls into that -- into that category.

Coming out of the 1990s, Lou, we had roughly -- the specific figures are classified. But we had roughly a $10 billion shortage of ammo.

And you've got to give the Bush administration some credit. The president did start -- order that those ammo supplies start building back up. And he's done that each year, and especially in the precision munitions.

Those JDAMs, Joint Direct Attack Munitions that go in and take out a tank 30 miles ahead of the troops, those have been built up considerably. So they do need to have some credit on that.

But we've got old ammo plants. And what we did this year in the House defense bill that we just passed 60-0 in the committee and almost unanimously on the House floor. About 30 people voted against it, but it's now passed.

We put in $59 million to capitalize and rebuild these aging ammo plants. So we're going to -- we're going to do everything we can. And if we have to have round the clock shifts building ammo in America, that's much preferable to buying ammo from Israel, Russia or any other foreign source.

DOBBS: Would you include Canada in that?

HUNTER: Absolutely. Canada is obviously closer to us. They like to consider themselves part of the American base.

But I'm reminded, Lou, when we went off to fight in Iraq, Canada decided not to be part of the team. They call themselves part of America's industrial base when they're selling us things. But when we go out and have to -- have to shed some blood and take some bullets, the Canadians often hang back.

DOBBS: What is the reaction of you and your members of your committee and the attitude of Congress right now on the fact that the administration has forestalled letting a contract for new helicopters to -- for Marine One, for the presidential fleet, the idea that the European Airbus would be considered for fleet tankers for the U.S. military.

This is remarkable stuff to many people.

HUNTER: Well, I think that, definitely -- and let me just tell you that as long as I'm chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and I think most members of the Armed Services Committee feel the same way.

There's not going to be a French tanker being flown in the United States military, being built for the United States military.

I've heard some rumblings to that effect. But I've sent a letter to the secretary on that. And I'll tell you, there's going to be any votes on the House side to do that. And if it's attempted, I think it will be blocked.

But you know, John Kerry now, as I understand, calls himself a free trader, while he says he's against CAFTA.

I'm not a free trader. And I remember my dad came back from World War II, who could have bought foreign steel for 50 percent of what it cost in the U.S., always bought American steel. Incidentally made a lot of money while he was doing it.

And he always said, "I want American workers to be able to buy my houses."

I think this is an era, Lou, when Americans are going to start pulling together. And I've talked to a lot of our leaders in the aerospace industry, the guys at -- And a lot of these big companies fly two different flags. For example, Boeing, when they're -- when the possibility of Airbus taking some of their action arises, they want to wrap themselves in the American flag, buy America.

But when they have a chance to go off and buy a component that's made foreign so they can have a larger profit margin, all of a sudden they embrace free trade. And so they have two different sets of lobbyists working Capitol Hill. May they never meet.

I think it's time for Americans, right up through our CEOs in the top aerospace companies, to start pulling together. And that means instead of going out and buying that Mitsubishi machine tool, you say, "Wait a minute. What do U.S. companies make? What can we get in this Ohio base of machine tool companies."

And we did pass a provision last year that I authored, Lou, in the defense bill that said that if you buy an American machine tool and you're in a competition for a defense contract, that gives you a leg up. You get a preference point for buying American machine tools.

So we've made a little headway there. We're going to continue to do that. And I think the spirit of this country is to start pulling together.

DOBBS: And it's, as they say, well nigh time. Congressman Duncan Hunter, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, thanks for being here.

HUNTER: Good to be with you.

DOBBS: Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Harvey in Newton, Massachusetts wrote in to say, "Interesting that the Pentagon may buy bullets from Canada. Aren't they worried about the quality of those bullets? They certainly are concerned about those prescription drugs imported from Canada.

Raymond Finney of Pagosa Springs, Colorado, "Lou, if we need more bullets, let's buy them in the United States or Canada. The irony of buying bullets from Israel for the war in Iraq would be the frosting on Bush's foreign policy cake."

And Edward Gaddis in Lancaster, California: "I watch your program every day, and I find myself agreeing with you almost -- find myself agreeing with almost everything you say. How can this be if I'm a Democrat and you're a Republican?"

Well, that's part of what makes America great and, hopefully, more of us will begin to do just that. That is, agree.

Send us your thoughts: LouDobbs@CNN.com. We'll share some more of your e-mails later here in the broadcast.

Still ahead, "Water Wars." The federal government is trying to broker a new water deal in the drought-stricken west. Cities are scrambling to find water. Twenty-five million people are absolutely riveted on the answers that government provide.

Veterans gathering for the dedication of the World War II memorial in Washington. I'll be talking with Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur. She first proposed building the memorial nearly two decades ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight, we conclude our series of special reports, "Water Wars."

We focused all week on the western drought and the 25 million people who depend upon the Colorado River for their water. Tonight, the historic document that governs the river's water is under attack. And old rivalries over water are resurfacing, and with a vengeance, now that it's increasingly scarce.

Casey Wian reports from Riverside, California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From water rationing to ranchers selling out to developers, the drought's effects are being magnified by the 80-yea-old law of the river.

President Hoover in seven states agreed to split the Colorado River's water between those in its upper and lower basin. Since then, the deal has been modified several times. Lake Powell and Lake Head have been built to store water for the west's rapidly growing cities.

It's kept farmers and developers, state and Indian nations, from all-out water wars. But the drought and the declining levels of Mead are reviving old disputes.

PAT MULROY, SOUTHERN NEVADA WATER AUTHORITY: Let me spell it out for you because it's really ugly.

Let's assume we have two more really ugly winters and Powell goes down to the dead pool. That means no water can come -- there's no water in Powell to move to Mead.

At that point, you shut off all upper basin uses. Period. Now comes the obtuse priority system in the lower basin.

SID WILSON, CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT: Under the priority system that's in place, Arizona could lose its entire 1.5 million feet of water a year before California loses a bucket of their entitlement.

MULROY: That system may have sounded good in 1929, but I would venture to say that that makes absolutely no sense in the modern United States.

WIAN (on camera): California receives the biggest portion of the Colorado River's water, nearly 15 times as much as Nevada. Water is delivered here by an aqueduct that cuts through 242 miles of desert.

(voice-over) Before the drought, the Colorado also produced excess water, and California often took more than its share. It already had to give that up. Its neighbors are thirsting for more.

The federal government has identified dozens of hot spots where water wars are likely over the next two decades. It's now trying to broker a new water sharing deal.

GALE NORTON, INTERIOR SECRETARY: We've met with states and local governments, environmental groups, farmers, ranchers, all sorts of organizations across the West, and people have been very enthusiastic about the need to get together and to have some plans.

WIAN: If states can't agree among themselves, Norton has the power to force a deal. Meanwhile, western cities are scrambling to find more water with proposals ranging from restarting mothballed desalination plants to cloud seating and, of course, praying for rain.

Casey Wian, CNN, Riverside, California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: And turning to our poll, the question tonight: "Should the United States begin a national program to reduce dependence on foreign oil, even if it means exploiting our own natural resources?"

Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results coming up later.

Coming up next, already a hero at 28, one young fighter pilot ready to return to the skies over Iraq. We'll have her remarkable story in "Heroes."

And 60 years later, a stunning tribute to the men and the women who served this country in World War II. Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur led the effort to build the memorial. She's our guest tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Ahead of this Memorial Day weekend, little movement on Wall Street today.

The Dow fell nearly 17 points. The Dow ended the week, however, up more than two percent. The NASDAQ up more than two points today, but gaining nearly four percent on the week. The S&P virtually unchanged, but up 2.5 percent.

Let's take a quick look at some of your thoughts on CAFTA.

Amy in Nottingham, New Hampshire, "Lou, it's clear that the people that will benefit the most from CAFTA are the businesses that exploit the cheap foreign laborers, ship the product back to the United States and then sell it here at a price that would reflect it was made here in the United States."

Caitlin Wright, Brighton, Massachusetts, "We should we be patting ourselves on the back for taking away U.S. jobs and exploiting poverty stricken countries by providing them with less than a dollar an hour jobs and polluting their environment."

Eugene Womack, Myers Flat, California: "CAFTA or NAFTA, it doesn't matter. Neither should have been passed or considered, because they only legalize the outsourcing of American jobs."

Christopher Toughill of Cape Coral, Florida, "Lou, perhaps we should call free trade "flee trade, because our jobs continue to jump ship. Or maybe just call it what it is: government sanctioned trading of America's economic base and infrastructure for short term, unsustainable corporate profits."

Send us your thoughts at CNN -- at LouDobbs@CNN.com.

This Memorial Day weekend is one of particular significance to the surviving World War II veterans and their families and, indeed, to the nation.

Nearly 60 years after the war, hundreds of thousands of people are expected to gather in Washington, D.C., for the dedication of the memorial. The site honors the 16 million Americans who served and features 4,000 Bronze Stars. Each star represents 100 troops lost.

The centerpiece of the memorial is the refurbished Rainbow Pool, designed to allow for quiet reflection. My guest tonight spearheaded the campaign to build this memorial. And it took her almost two decades to get it done. And get it done, she did.

Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur of Ohio joins us tonight from the memorial in Washington.

Well, first, congratulations to you, congresswoman. You introduced the legislation 17 years ago. Now, it's a reality. As you stand there tonight, what are your emotions?

REP. MARCY KAPTUR (D), OHIO: Yes, I guess I could say my cup runneth over tonight.

We have been down on the plaza. We've been talking with veterans and their families and their grandchildren all day long. It's almost more than one person can totally assimilate in a day, Lou.

This is really America's way of saying to the World War II generation, a grateful nation remembers. We thank you. This is our prayer of thanksgiving to you. We hope that you feel it's sufficient for what you have given to us.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Kaptur, when you first introduced the legislation, what motivated you to do so? Why did you do so?

KAPTUR: Well, I think it was a combination of factors. There was a beautiful veteran in my district named Roger Durbin, who approached me at a township trustees annual meeting and asked me why there was no World War II memorial in Washington where he could bring his grandchildren.

And I said, "Sir, there is a memorial. It's Iwo Jima."

He said wrong. That's to one service and one campaign. And he really got me to thinking. And our own family -- Uncle Stanley Rigowski (ph) and Uncle Anthon Rigowski (ph) had both fought, one in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific, wounded.

Our father's best friend killed. It was down in the Philippines. And John Kaptur our first cousin, and the landing in America Samoa -- I was a history major in college, studied the history of World War II.

So when Roger talked to me, it was as though everything came together at that one moment in 1987. And I thought, you know, he has a point. What happened? And why wasn't it done?

And I realized that this generation is the most unselfish generation America has ever had. They would never ask for themselves. So it was up to us, the baby boomers, to do it for them.

DOBBS: And you got it done. And again, our congratulations. And it's wonderful to hear that one person can inspire, as your constituent did, you, that one congresswoman can get it done. Still, that gives us faith in our system of government as well. Let me ask you, a number of people have criticized the memorial for its architecture, for various things. But everyone who's seen it, to my knowledge, has reacted positively, the veterans themselves.

KAPTUR: Yes. If you come down here on site, there is no way that you will not be welcomed. You will feel the site envelope you. It is a very, very peaceful and respectful place. You can look at the Washington Monument, you can look at the Lincoln Memorial.

And this memorial will mark the -- it will really be America's expression of victory, of liberty over tyranny in the 20th Century. You look at the Washington Monument, the founding of the republic, the Lincoln Memorial, the preservation of the union. Our whole history comes together here.

DOBBS: Congresswoman, we thank you very much. And again, we look forward to what we know will be an inspiring weekend.

And we're going to turn to one of the heroes that we celebrate each week here. Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur, thank you.

In our "Heroes" segment tonight, we focus on a young pilot who's preparing to return to Iraq.

We first met Captain Kim Campbell while she was serving in Iraq last April, at the height of military operations in Iraq. Now, she's back home at North Carolina. Captain Campbell, known as Killer Chick, said she's willing and ready to return to the fight.

Gary Tuchman has her story from Pope Air Force Base, North Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: During the peak of the air war over Iraq, A-10 pilot Kim Campbell's life hung in balance on a cloudy April night over Baghdad.

(on camera) Do you think you're a hero?

CAPT. KIM CAMPBELL, U.S. AIR FORCE: No, not at all. I think to me, I was doing my job that day. And I'm very lucky to be back home.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Luck had something to do with it. But Air Force colleagues say heroism did, too.

Captain Campbell, also known as Killer Chick, or KC, was hit by Iraqi fire over Baghdad. Her attack jet lost its hydraulic power. CNN was embedded with her squadron at the base on the Iraqi border where she safely landed.

(on camera) Do you think that you were going to be able to make it back or that you'd have to eject from the plane?

CAMPBELL: There was a quick second where I knew it was a possibility. But in my mind I knew I had no desire to eject over Baghdad.

The experts believe that a surface-to-air missile impacted somewhere in this area and then, as it hit, it sent shrapnel from the missile into both the inside of the right tail and also the fuselage here.

TUCHMAN: KC is now back at North Carolina's Pope Air Force base with her new A-10. Home since July, she says she remains a strong supporter of the U.S. role in Iraq.

CAMPBELL: No one said this was going to be easy. And you know, we know it's going to be tough. And we'll be there as long as the mission calls for it.

TUCHMAN: The 28-year-old has received awards and accolades. She makes two to three speeches a month while continuing her training.

CAMPBELL: Our squadron will most likely be deploying later on this year. And I'm more than happy to go back.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Would your family like to see you not fly combat missions any more?

CAMPBELL: They know that I love what I do. And they know that I'm willing to take risks, and this is something that I would be willing to give my life for, because I believe in it.

And you know, my parents aren't going to tell me that I can't do it. Certainly not at age 28, anyway.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Tuchman, CNN, Pope Air Force Base, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The result of our poll: 60 percent of you say we should reduce our dependence on foreign oil at the expense of our own national resources.

Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, have a safe, pleasant Memorial Day weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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