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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Four American Troops Killed in Iraq; Job Growth Slows

Aired July 02, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KITTY PILGRIM, GUEST HOST: Tonight, new violence in Iraq one day after an Iraqi court charged Saddam Hussein with mass murder. Terrorists attack a hotel used by Westerners in Baghdad, and insurgents killed four American troops.
Tonight, I will talk with "TIME" magazine's bureau chief in Baghdad, Michael Ware.

Job growth slows sharply in June. The economy created 112,000 new jobs, half the number expected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't need boom- or bust-type growth. We want just steady, consistent growth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Tonight, I will talk about the economy and its impact on the presidential election with Ron Brownstein at the "Los Angeles Times" and Mark Morrison at "BusinessWeek."

And Bill Cosby launches an outspoken attack on some African- Americans. Cosby says they are wasting the opportunities won by the Civil Rights Movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: We don't have time to argue about who's right and who's wrong. We've got too many children in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: The Reverend Jesse Jackson says he shares Cosby's concerns. Jesse Jackson is my guest tonight.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, July 2. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening.

Today in Iraq, insurgents launched a new wave of attacks against coalition targets. The military said insurgents killed four American troops in the last 24 hours.

And in Baghdad, terrorists fired a rocket into a hotel used by Westerners. At least two Iraqis were wounded.

Jane Arraf reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): It was an image that many Iraqis might have dreamed of for years but never thought they'd see: Saddam Hussein shackled. Those photographs released today from the ex-president's court appearance on Thursday. He was led into the courtroom by two Iraqi guards, unshackled, as he was led in, but, clearly, a Saddam Hussein who has lost almost everything.

Now that Saddam is in custody and about to face trial doesn't mean the violence has stopped. Still ongoing attacks in Baghdad and in other parts of the country, but, as for a lull when many people had expected some of the worst attacks over the last few days, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez winding up his tour here after more than a year says that they've taken some measures to try to prevent that violence.

LT. GEN. RICARDO SANCHEZ, U.S. ARMY: I think there were some operations that we conducted, and, coupled with the late transfer of sovereignty, I think that was effective in creating a little bit of instability on the part of the insurgents, and that's good news.

By no means are they done. We believe that they will continue to strike at the political process, they'll continue to strike at the basic infrastructure of the country, and we've got to defeat them.

ARRAF: Earlier on Friday, very early in the morning, a rocket was fired that hit the hotel complex where many journalists and Western business people stay. No one was killed in the attack. Between two and four Iraqis were injured by shrapnel. It was the kind of a attack that's happened here before: rockets put on a makeshift platform and launched from just across the street.

Officials here blame foreign fighters increasingly for the violence here, but, in some good news, three hostages have been released. Two Turkish nationals and a Pakistani truck driver held by different groups have called home to say that their captors have released them. The Pakistani was under the threat of beheading.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: For the first time, Arab countries have offered to send troops to Iraq. Jordan and Yemen both said they will consider sending peacekeepers if the new Iraqi government requests them. At the moment, the United States provides nearly all the international troops in Iraq.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): Iraqis may be in control of their government, but not in total control of security. Iraqi forces still lack basic training and equipment, leaving the role of policing the country largely to the 138,000 U.S. forces.

Defense experts predict it will be a shaky start for the new interim government without a strong Iraqi military.

FRANK GAFFNEY, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: I am somewhat uneasy, to be honest, about whether the people that it's being handed off to are up to the job, whether they've got anything like the kinds of institutions that are necessary to sustain them.

SYLVESTER: NATO has made it clear it will not commit forces to stabilize Iraq, offering only to help train the new army. Representative Duncan Hunter says Europe should do more, arguing the United States bore the brunt of the cost of the European operation in the Balkans.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: We ended up doing all the air power, all the air refueling, all the expensive stuff, and so we brought the stakes to the picnic, and the other countries, in some cases, brought the plastic forecasts.

SYLVESTER: The United States has been helped by 20,000 multinational troops, mostly from Britain and Poland. But even in the United States were able to convince the French, Germans and the Indians to take on a greater role, there are those who believe it won't make a big difference.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: That might allow us to reduce our total troop contribution from 140,000 to 120,000, for example, but it's not going to change the basic fact that it will still be an American-dominated operation and still be very dangerous for whoever's soldiers are trying to make this happen in Iraq.

SYLVESTER: The United States' final exit won't happen until the Iraqi forces are able to stand on their own.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: The United States is not only having trouble attracting more foreign troops, but also maintaining the ones who are there. Spain pulled out the last of its troops in June, and, this week, Britain bowing to domestic pressure declined to send 3,500 more troops to Iraq -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

Lisa Sylvester.

Well, as Lisa just reported, NATO has agreed to help train Iraqi troops and police, but U.S. efforts to enlist NATO's help have run into a familiar problem: French resistance. The United States wants NATO to take a leading role in the Iraqi training program, but France says NATO's role must be limited to coordination. Well, CNN has learned the Pentagon may tell the families of U.S. troops based in Bahrain to leave the country. Bahrain is the headquarters of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet, and officials are concerned about the growing threat of a terrorist attack.

Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, Kitty, tonight, Pentagon sources tell CNN that up to 900 military dependents will be ordered to leave Bahrain because of credible intelligence that the Americans in that city could be the target of a terrorist attack.

Also, U.S. officials are irked that six al Qaeda suspects arrested by the Bahraini government on July 22 have been released. In fact, they were released the next day for lack of evidence.

A State Department official told CNN that the six were "bad guys" and that their release has left the United States quite concerned about Bahrain's commitment to fight terror. A State Department travel warning issued July 1 pointedly says, "Credible information indicates that extremists remain at large" -- underline remain at large -- "and are planning attacks in Bahrain."

Now the United States has some 4,500 troops in -- military personnel stationed in Bahrain, which is the headquarters of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet. There are no plans to withdraw any of those troops or curtail military operations, but, by reducing the number of family members in the kingdom, the U.S. hopes to lower the footprint and the vulnerability of U.S. forces to a terrorist attack.

Now Bahrain is just a short drive from Saudi Arabia, across a causeway, where in the -- so far this year, five Americans have been killed. Now the U.S. says that while it's not happy with Bahrain for letting those al Qaeda suspects go, Bahrain, on the other hand, is not too happy either that the United States is sending a signal that the kingdom is not safe for Westerners -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Jamie, how important is Bahrain to the war on terror?

Jamie, how important is Bahrain to the war on terror?

Jamie can't hear us.

Thanks very much.

MCINTYRE: I'm sorry. We're having a technical problem. I'm not able to hear you.

PILGRIM: Jamie McIntyre.

Still to come, a dramatic week in Iraq, but insurgents continue to attack U.S. troops and Iraqis. I will talk with Michael Ware, "TIME" magazine's bureau chief in Baghdad.

The pace of job growth slowed last month. Democrats stepped up their attacks on President Bush. And we'll have a live report from the White House.

And outspoken comments about Bill Cosby about some African- Americans. Tonight, I will be joined by the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: The United States today held its highest level meeting with North Korea in two years. Secretary of State Colin Powell met the North Korean foreign minister to discuss Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program.

Maria Ressa reports from Indonesia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA RESSA, CNN JAKARTA BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): For 20 minutes, Colin Powell met with North Korea's foreign minister, Paek Nam-Sun, at the sidelines of the security forum of ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Two years ago, also at a ASEAN meeting, Powell had a cup of coffee with this North Korean counterpart. This year, the meeting was more formal. Although Powell said there was an opportunity for concrete progress, he also downplayed the initiative.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: All we did in that discussion was to reaffirm the positions that both sides took at the six-party talks last week.

RESSA: North Korea for its part toned down its anti-U.S. rhetoric.

CHUNG SONG-IL, NORTH KOREAN SPOKESMAN (through translator): Both sides agreed in principle to establish trust, which we are lacking. We agreed to that in principle, so the atmosphere at the meeting was good.

RESSA (on camera): The one thing North Korea and the U.S. agreed on today is that there is a lot of distrust between them. But observers here point out that direct high-level meetings like this can do a lot to break down that barrier.

Maria Ressa, CNN, Jakarta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: The security forum in Jakarta was not all business, however. Secretary of State Colin Powell showed a musical side rarely seen in public. Now the summit traditionally ends with a jamboree on its final night. Secretary Powell led a group of other American officials in a rousing, if somewhat out-of-tune, version of the Village People song "YMCA."

(VIDEO)

PILGRIM: Now we know why Secretary Powell's musical side is so rarely seen.

Still ahead, the economy created fewer jobs than expected last month, but the president says more jobs are on the way, and we'll have a live report from the White House.

Plus, comedian Bill Cosby marks a civil rights anniversary by lashing out at some African-Americans. We'll have a special report.

And Rainbow/PUSH Coalition founder Jesse Jackson will be our guest.

And then, Heroes. 1st Sergeant Kevin Remington earned a Silver Star by risking his own life to save others in Iraq. We'll have his inspiring story and much more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: The economy added 112,000 new jobs in June. That's less than half of what economists were expecting. The unemployment rate remained at 5.6 percent. President Bush today said despite the slow down in job creation, the economy is showing "steady growth."

Elaine Quijano is at the White House with more -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Steady and strong. That is how President Bush sees the economy, even after those new job numbers that fell short of some economists' predictions.

At a meeting today at the White House with small business owners, the president maintained that, thanks to his administration's fiscal policies, the overall economic picture is encouraging, even though today's Labor Department figures amount to less than half of what analysts had forecast. White House officials say the unemployment rate is holding steady at 5.6 percent and is below the average of the 1970s, '80s and '90s.

And President Bush says there's been consistent growth, not a boom or bust cycle, and he points to 10 consecutive months of job growth with 1.5 million new jobs created.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We've been through a recession, national emergency a war, corporate scandals, an economy which is changing. It's -- the nature of the job base is changing, and all of that means it's been a difficult period of time, yet we're strong we're getting stronger. We're witnessing steady growth -- steady growth. That's important. We don't need boom- or bust-type growth. We want just steady, consistent growth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: President Bush today also repeated a call to members of Congress for help in strengthening the economy by making tax cuts permanent, adopting a national energy policy, and by reducing what the administration calls frivolous lawsuits -- Kitty. PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Elaine Quijano.

Now President Bush's challenger today kicked off a three-day bus tour of the Midwest. In Minnesota, Senator Kerry focused on jobs and the economy. Senator Kerry blasted President Bush's economic record and said the country can do better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All Americans are deserving of an equal shot at the American dream, not just a few; that all Americans are deserving of a job that actually pays the bills, of a decent education that allows you to go forward; that all Americans have the right to drink from the same fountain of opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Joining us now are this week's news makers: Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times" and Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek".

And, gentlemen, thanks for joining us.

Let me start with you, Mark. Since you're sitting closest to me, you're my first person to ask. Let's go to the Iraq handover which has really dominated the news this week. Now that this is done, President Bush has about a 45 percent approval rating. Do you think that he will get some credit finally for this?

MARK MORRISON, "BUSINESSWEEK": Yes, I think he'll get a bump in the next round of polls. Symbolically, this is a very strong message that it looks very good. The problem is how long is does last, and it depends on whether this new government in Iraq can establish credibility, and, perhaps even more important, the -- what happens to security in the country, can we cut down on the casualties and the deaths, because that's what really resonates, I think, with voters.

PILGRIM: And all in all, not to trivialize it, but not a bad week, given the weeks we've seen in Iraq.

Also, let me ask Ron. We have Jordan saying that they may chip in some troops, peacekeepers, kind of a surprise move, an Arab country now climbing on board here. What do you make of the progress we've made and how this plays with President Bush's candidacy?

RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, overall, it's been a tough week in that regard for President Bush. It's been a good week, as Mark suggested, in the handover, both symbolizing Iraqis taking more responsibility for the problem and also giving President Bush an opportunity, which he hasn't had many of lately, to say things are proceeding in the way that we anticipated. We are moving ahead with our plan. Indeed, the trial of Saddam Hussein offers evidence in that respect as well. But on the help from abroad, I think the overall picture this week was frustrating. NATO really did the bare minimum necessary to avoid an open breach with President Bush by agreeing only to train Iraqis and not even agreeing to send forces into Iraq to do the training, basically requiring -- saying that they might have to come to Europe to do so. we are still operating in a situation where we're bearing the bulk of this burden ourselves, and, although the Jordanian commitment will be, I think, valuable symbolically, it doesn't change that reality on the ground.

PILGRIM: Yes, there's a very -- let me just add there's a very real picture this week of Saddam Hussein in the docket. Mark, doesn't that play well?

MORRISON: Yes, I think it does. It's another powerful symbol. And I was going to ask Ron whether he thinks that, to some extent, Bush has preempted or co-opted some of Kerry's ideas in terms of reaching out to the international community more aggressively and moving ahead fairly -- on a fairly expedited schedule in Iraq?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, the Kerry campaign, I think, has been frustrated over the last few months that some of the differences between the two sides has eroded as President Bush has become more willing, for example, to rely on the U.N. and the formation of this interim government.

But I think this past week under underscores the argument that Kerry is going to make and has made on occasion already. His case is that no matter what President Bush does at this point, the well has been, in effect, so poisoned that we are not going to get much help from abroad without a new president.

I think that's an argument you're going to hear more from Kerry as the sort of tactical maneuvers between the two sides look less different.

PILGRIM: Are we at a critical juncture here? I mean, is this election going to be about success in Iraq? I mean, we have this handover, but insurgency is a problem. Do you think we're at this critical moment where Iraq has to go well for us?

MORRISON: Yes, I think Iraq will be the issue, if the casualties and the losses over there continue to happen. On the other hand, I think you can see a scenario where it cools off as an issue with voters, if things go a little better than expected, and the economy becomes front and center, and, here again, Bush has some issues.

The economy's growing very well, you know, 4-percent-type growth. Corporate profits are very good. On a lot of bases, the economy is doing very well. But, with voters, they're looking at very high oil prices. They're looking at interest rates going up. They're looking at paying an arm and a leg for health insurance when they can get it, a lot of things that are rubbing consumers and voters, therefore, the wrong way.

PILGRIM: The Fed raised short-term lending rates this week. How big a deal is that? Will that be even perceived by voter or people in the economy?

MORRISON: It will be perceived because the interest rates -- the higher interest rates are already moving through and showing up on the bills for mortgages and credit cards and so forth.

PILGRIM: Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Kitty, we've been on a seesaw all year on whether it looks like Iraq or the economy will be the dominant issue. I mean, right now with voters, my sense is that Iraq is overshadowing everything else President Bush has done, in part because it crystallizes what people feel about him.

The decision seems to embody the characteristics they either like or don't like. For his fans, it shows resolve, farsightedness, a willingness to take bold steps even when there's a lot of opposition. For his critics, it seems to sort of personify a rigidity, an overly ideological approach, an unwillingness to change course when events demand it.

It could change if the temperature lowers there in terms of the casualties and the violence, but my sense is it has become such a defining aspect of his presidency that it's going to loom very large, no matter what happens. And, in fact, if things go -- if things don't go better, it will be the principal obstacle to his reelection.

PILGRIM: Let's just talk about the Supreme Court's decision to give the Guantanamo detainees their day in court. In the broader context of this, how do we interpret this in the political context and, also, in the sort of reaction to 9/11? Mark?

MORRISON: Yes, I think it feeds the idea that a lot of people have that this administration has been overly authoritarian, that it has not taken the high road that Americans would expect it to in some of the treatment of prisoners and so forth, and it just has not run a tight ship as well in terms of protecting individual rights as this process has gone forward.

PILGRIM: Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Kitty, to me, it just illuminates what, to some extent surprisingly, has become, I think, the central issue for voters in this election, which is President Bush's response to 9/11 across the board. The question: Was it an appropriate response, or did he in several ways overreact?

That is the debate. Did we go too far with the Patriot Act? Did we go too far with these detentions? Above all, was the invasion of Iraq in the name of reducing the threat of terror an overreaction or a misdirection of our energy?

In the end, I really do think this race is pivoting on a referendum up or down more than anything else on President Bush's strategy for protecting the nation after 9/11, and this decision really feeds right into that overall dynamic. PILGRIM: Let's talk about terrorism. And I clearly remember last year sitting at this desk just before the Fourth of July weekend and everyone being a nervous wreck about terrorism. It seems remarkably absent from the discussion today and all this week, not that everyone isn't prepared. It's just it doesn't seem to be at the same level of anxiety. What's your...

MORRISON: Well, there is -- there is a difference, but -- and we see that in -- and people are traveling. I mean, the tourism is back up to very high levels and airlines are booked, hotels are booked. This is really a sign that people are getting more relaxed and going about their normal lives.

On the other hand, it wouldn't take much, I don't think, to spark a reversal of that. It's -- that's the point, I think. We're very vulnerable to getting right back to where we were a year ago.

PILGRIM: Ron, you get the last word.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, we are in the new normal in that sense. I mean, terrorism is now a fact of life in America. We will never go back to the kind of consciousness we had before 9/11 when we felt safe with two oceans around us. On the other hand, it's not clear that Americans perceive themselves to be in a constant state of war the way much of the political dialogue has it.

PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much, Ron Brownstein and Mark Morrison. A pleasure. And have a great weekend.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

MORRISON: Thanks.

PILGRIM: And that brings us to the topic of tonight's poll. Do you think the United States should reduce the number of American troops in Iraq, now that sovereignty has been transferred to the Iraqis? Yes, no or not yet? Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou, and we will bring you the results later in the show.

In Heroes tonight, the incredible story of Sergeant Kevin Remington, how he put his own life on the line to save the lives of his fellow soldiers in Iraq and earned a Silver Star for his bravery.

Casey Wian has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kevin Remington's been in the military for more than 20 years. Last July, his training was put to the test in Iraq. Delivering supplies to a river patrol, Remington's convoy was bombed. The blast severely injured two soldiers, trapping them in their truck. After that, a full-scale fire firefight erupted.

1ST SGT. KEVIN REMINGTON, NORTH DAKOTA NATIONAL GUARD: You have a window of opportunity where you either do something or you do nothing or you get paralyzed by the thought process.

WIAN: Rather than leave the area, Remington made a tough call, ordering his machine gunners to keep up the fight so he could rescue the soldiers who'd been hit.

REMINGTON: I just told them to hold tight, you know, that we were going to get them out of there. Just hang in there.

WIAN: With bullets flying, Remington got the severely injured soldiers out of the vehicle and out of the so-called kill zone. Although he put the lives of other soldiers at risk, Remington says he has no regrets.

REMINGTON: If soldiers don't have the confidence that they're going to be -- somebody's going to come back for them, they may not fight as hard.

WIAN: The driver of the vehicle died of his injuries, but the actions of Remington and fellow soldiers saved the life of Specialist Brandon Erickson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He cares about his troops just amazingly. He's just -- he's the epitome of an NCO. He's a great guy. I was -- I was so glad he was over there with us.

WIAN: The military has honored Remington with a Silver Star for gallantry. But he is humble.

REMINGTON: When I look at what happened that day, I look at it this way. Over the years, the United States military has put a lot of time and a lot of money into Kevin Remington, and my hope is that day maybe I gave a little bit of that back.

WIAN: Remington will stay in the National Guard for three more years.

Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: In next week's Heroes, we'll have more of the remarkable story of Specialist Brandon Erickson, the soldier Sergeant Remington saved in Iraq.

Well, tonight's thought is on heroes, and here it is: "Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes heroes." And those are the words of former British prime minister, Benjamin Disraeli.

Let's look at some of your thoughts.

Now Lou from Florida wrote in to say, "Recent data in 'TIME' magazine indicates that of the 1.3 million jobs created in the past few months, 26 percent went to noncitizens. Isn't this another form of exporting jobs? It sounds like the typical political doublespeak." And on Broken Borders, Albert writes from New Jersey, "Failure to enforce immigration laws is pleasing to the greedy businesses who want cheap labor and to Mexico's President Fox who apparently wants to play a much larger role in the destiny of the southwestern states of the United States."

We love hearing from you. E-mail us, loudobbs@CNN.com.

We'll have more of your thoughts still ahead.

Plus, comedian Bill Cosby challenges African-American parents to teach their children. We'll have the story and the Reverend Jesse Jackson will join us with his reaction next.

A then, a hot summer at the movies. We will talk to Hollywood Reporter's Marty Grove about what's turning out to be a blockbuster movie season.

And remembering a true Hollywood rebel: a look back at the extraordinary career and life of Marlon Brando.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Comedian Bill Cosby is sparking some controversy on the 40th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act. Cosby blasted some African- Americans who he said have failed to take advantage of the civil rights movement. Byron Harlan of CNN affiliate WFLD in Chicago reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: We cannot protect ourselves if the picture of ourselves is in a trough.

BYRON HARLAN, WFLD CORRESPONDENT: It was Bill Cosby the educator who spoke with force and conviction to a crowd of mostly black people who wanted to hear more about his views on race. The message was electric, direct and clear: Stop blaming others for the problems with black America.

COSBY: It is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps -- it keeps a person frozen in their seat.

HARLAN: Bill Cosby has been in the hot seat for his remarks at Howard University last May. That event marked the 50th anniversary of the Supreme Court decision to desegregate American public schools. He said too many low-income African-Americans are not doing their part to improve their situation. He also says parents are failing children.

COSBY: Please, stop it. Stop your cursing. We want to ask the parent, stop yanking that child.

HARLAN: He also criticized entertainers, producers and black comedians for reinforcing stereotypes. COSBY: We're going to call each other names of ugliness. Comedians coming on TV, my man's so ugly, you're uglier, yuk, yuk. That's all minstrel show stuff. I'm tired of this.

HARLAN (on camera): Bill Cosby says he's especially tired of music that glorifies bad behavior. Young people here it, they emulate it, And he says it's up to parents to take control and stop it. Byron, Harlan Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Our next guest invited Bill Cosby to speak at the Rainbow Push Coalition Conference. The Reverend Jesse Jackson is the finder of the Rainbow Push Coalition. And he joins me tonight from Chicago. Thanks for joining us, Reverend Jackson.

Some people have been very critical of Mr. Cosby's remarks. But you agree with them, don't you?

REV. JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Yes. But let me say before responding to Bill that this is a significant day, this is the 40th anniversary of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. July 2, 1964. I had just left jail, so I remember it very well.

And Marlon Brando, who died today, was a huge factor in helping to challenge the culture. Marlon Brando and Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. and Harry Belafonte. And for all he did to make America better, I want to offer condolences to the family of Marlon Brando, a hero not just on the screen but a hero in the streets and the commitment to social justice and to peace.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Reverend Jackson for adding that to our broadcast. Let me go back to my initial question, however, how do you react to Mr. Cosby's remarks?

JACKSON: Well, Bill's intent was to inspire, to lift up, not to put down. And there's a context of what Bill said. We were on the 50th anniversary, the '54 Supreme Court decision, was obviously schools are still unequal, unequal by race, and when you're behind, you cannot afford to put less than your best effort.

You do not find degradation with self-degradation and self- destruction. Bill's appeal is for parents to take charge of a relationship early on. Why can't parents take your child to school, meet your child's teacher, exchange home numbers, turn off the TV three hours a night, pick up your child's report card. That level of values will add value. That really was a prodding and a charting for us to do better.

PILGRIM: I think that would strike accord with any parent. However, Mr. Cosby did say that young African-Americans are failing to honor the sacrifices of those made during the civil rights movement. Would you agree with that?

JACKSON: And that's true for too many. Because there are too many high school drop-outs with no place to go. Of those in jail, 90 percent are high school drop-outs, 80 percent of them are on some nonviolent drug charge and 75 percent are recycled back into the system.

And while there is, in fact, race targeting, no profiling, there's no doubt about that, against those odds what do you do? If you're behind, you run faster. You may not be responsible for being down, but you must be responsible for getting up.

We all aware that under Mr. Bush, leave no child behind has left 2 million behind, and 300,000 afterschool programs have been wiped out. But having said all of that, what do you do? If you're an athlete, why do we do so well in football, basketball, baseball? We practice harder, we're more determined and we run faster because we will to excel.

Bill is saying will to become scientists, physicians, doctors, lawyers, judges, astronauts, apply the same commitment to academics that we do athletics and we will achieve much more and we will break the cycle of self-destruction and self-degredation. It's strong medicine, but it's good advice.

PILGRIM: Do you think this kind of straight talk more should be done of this?

JACKSON: The fact is, it's not a new message. It's in every church, every Sunday. It's intriguing to white people, it's not a new message to black people. I hold history of one against us. Most black children don't drop out of school. Most black parents do connect with the children and their teachers. Most of them do maintain their ambition to send their child to college or to, in fact, for them to be better off than they were.

What's new, of course, it seems a kind of intrigue by the press. My concern is there's almost no focus on -- Bill also talked about a million black votes, for this disenfranchised in the year 2000. No talk about that. He spoke of an inadequate number of well paid teachers, he spoke of too few psychologists for children who are in emotional trouble. That was dismissed. Only the part of kind of challenging blacks as if will Bill was getting blacks. He was not getting blacks.

He was challenging blacks against these odds, do what the did, put your life on the line, work hard. We have the brains and strong minds. He in effect is saying let nothing break your spirit. It's not new for people to degrade us, but let's not set the grade, let's not self-destruct, let's do our best against the odds, and in spite of the odds, we will achieve.

PILGRIM: Wow. Reverend Jesse Jackson, thanks very much.

JACKSON: Thank you.

PILGRIM: Still ahead, we will talk about this summer's blockbusters will the "Hollywood Reporter's" Marty Grove. He says, this could be a record-setting Fourth of July weekend.

And Hollywood mourns the loss of a legend. We'll look back at the career of Marlon Brando when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Movie lovers are mourning the death of one of the greatest screen actors of all time. Marlon Brando died yesterday in a Los Angeles hospital. He was 80 years old. Brando gave nuance portrayals of some of the big screen's most complicated characters. His own life was even more complex.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARLON BRANDO, ACTOR: Hey, Stella!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marlon Brando's life was remarkable for his professional triumphs and for his personal tragedies.

BRANDO: I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was widely recognized as the greatest American actor of his generation with performances spanning from the 1950s including "Julius Caesar," to the 1970s with the controversial but critically acclaimed "Last Tango in Paris" to the 1990s with "Don Juan DeMarco."

BRANDO: There isn't anything that pays you as much money as acting while you are deciding what the hell you're going to do with yourself.

You know that I've been on to you from the start and not once did you pull the wool over this boy's eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His 1951 screen performance as the tortured young Stanley Kowalski in Tennessee Williams' "A Streetcar Named Desire" made an indelible impression on audiences and critics alike. That role and others created the myth and allure of Brando, the image of a rebel, a dangerous and attractive sex symbol.

BRANDO: You don't understand. I could have had class. I could have been a contender. I could have been somebody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His inevitable stardom from "Streetcar" and his Oscar-winning performance on "The Waterfront" three years later put Brando squarely in the public eye, a position with which he never felt comfortable.

BRANDO: One thing that has been very problematic about being an actor and getting some measure of celebrity is the fact that you lose your identity and everybody calls you instantly Mr. Brando instead of, hey you, and then people make up notions. They want your autograph.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his autobiography entitled "Brando: Songs My Mother Taught Me," the actor wrote, "I don't think I ever liked being a movie star. No matter what I say or do people mythologize me."

BRANDO: Ship's company. I'm taking command of this ship. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His uneasiness with stardom and publicity drove Brando away from Hollywood and away from the United States to live for a time in Tahiti where he'd film the remake of "Mutiny on the Bounty." There he began a relationship and a family with one of his Tahitian costars.

BRANDO: I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Brando's professional stature continued to grow he retreated into a personal shell made evident to the world in his refusal to accept his second Oscar in 1972 for his performance in "The Godfather." Instead, he sent a representative to protest the treatment of Native Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what Marlon Brando has in his heart is that the image of Native Americans in this country of the United States should be changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brando later said he felt like a prisoner to his celebrityhood.

BRANDO: The idea of being successful and having a lot of money and having all your dreams come true is completely crazy. I've had so much misery in my life being famous and wealthy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total sentence imposed is ten years in the state prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christian Brando was the oldest of Brando's nine children from several marriages. He was sentenced in 1991 after pleading guilty to manslaughter in the shooting death of 26-year-old Dag Drollet, the boyfriend of Christian's half sister Cheyenne.

BRANDO: I saw him dying, laying there and I (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cheyenne remained in Tahiti and refused to testify against Christian. She tried many times to commit suicide and ultimately hanged herself in 1995 at her mother's home in Tahiti. At an earlier court hearing for his son, Marlon Brando said he felt responsible for the events leading up to the shooting.

BRANDO: I think that perhaps I failed as a father. Your tendency is always to blame the other parent, but I'm certain that there were things that I could have done differently had I known better at the time. But I didn't. I did the best I could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christian Brando was released from prison in early 1996. Marlon Brando had already seemed to make peace for himself over the tragedies and disappointments in his life.

BRANDO: To regret is useless in life. It belongs to the past. The only moment we have is right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite his private sadness, Brando's legacy may continue to be measured by his public triumphs preserved on film.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: And part of Brando's legacy is his influence on a whole generation of actors. For more on that I'm joined by Martin Grove of the "Hollywood Reporter" and he joins me tonight from Los Angeles. Always a pleasure, Martin.

MARTIN GROVE, "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": Kitty, it's lovely to see you unfortunately on this sad occasion of the loss of Marlon Brando. You know, one of the things about Brando people don't realize is his training as an actor on the stage. Now we all know he did "A Streetcar Named Desire" as a movie, but he did it first on stage in New York in 1947 and was acclaimed for the performance there of Stanley Kowalski.

PILGRIM: Marty is there anyone like Brando out there today? You see almost every movie that's out there.

GROVE: I'm afraid you're right. I do. And there really isn't -- the closest that I can come up with is Johnny Depp. Interestingly enough, Brando and Johnny Depp did do a movie together in 1995 which was "Don Juan DeMarco" not one of Brando's great movies nor one of Johnny Depp's.

But Depp has that same kind of bad boy characteristic and yet he's good enough that he can get away with it. I think that's the thing about Brando that we don't see anymore. We don't see people who are really good who may have temperaments and so forth but that are good enough that you put up with them. Marlon Brando was unique. He was just one of a kind.

PILGRIM: Interesting. Let's go on to the movie weekend. Everyone's dying to see a new movie. It's the great weekend for seeing a movie. Fourth of July weekend. Let's talk about the summer movies that are out already. "Spiderman 2." That was one of biggest openings ever, right?

GROVE: "Spiderman 2" is off to a sensationally record-setting start. On Wednesday it grossed just over $40 million. On Thursday it came in at almost $24 million. So as it went into this three-day weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it had almost $64 million plus. So where is it going?

Hollywood handicappers think $175 million is possible. Some of them are saying even more. This is a great movie-going weekend, but the Fourth of July itself is not a great day and Hollywood is never happy, Kitty, when July Fourth falls on a Sunday because it kind of takes away from the business you normally get on Sunday and on July Fourth you have a lot of competition. You got people who want to go to the beach and to see fireworks and picnics and barbecues and all kinds of parties that conflict with moviegoing.

So July Fourth itself is not a great day. It's very weather dependent by the way. If you have rain, thunderstorms, showers, anything like that...

PILGRIM: There goes the picnic. GROVE: Moviegoing benefits.

PILRIM: That's exactly right. Let's move on. "Fahrenheit 9/11" generating quite a bit of buzz. Not all of it all that positive. Some of it some people think it's great, it's really split out. Where do we go from here? Quite a surprise.

GROVE: Well, you know, where we go from here is into more theaters. This picture which opened first in 868 theaters, expanded this weekend and so now it's playing in close to 1,700 theaters. It's obviously going to reach people in many, many more cities across the country. Now whether it runs out of audience is something we have to wait and see.

This past week, watching the daily numbers, they have gone down. Starting out Monday at about 4.5 million, trailing down to about 3.5 million on Thursday. But now that it's in more theaters, we may find, you know, a new audience. Certainly Michael Moore is a master of media manipulation. He keeps this film in the spotlight and that's what sells movie tickets.

PILGRIM: Quite a bit of buzz. Let's get to one more. I think we only have time for one more. "De-Lovely" which is the new Cole Porter movie looks very charming.

GROVE: It is one of my favorite films. In fact, I can tell you sitting here today it's going to be on my top 10 list in December. That's how good it is. Kevin Kline and Ashley Judd, who you see there on the screen, he plays Cole Porter, she plays Linda Porter. It is just beautifully done. Irwin Winkler directed it. It is a wonderful musical. The music of Cole Porter, of course, needs no introduction from me. The movie works. I think it will be an Oscar contender. And it simply is great adult entertainment. If you're not up for "Spider-Man 2," if you're not up for popcorn movies, go see "De- Lovely." I think you will enjoy it.

PILGRIM: OK, one more, Tom Cruise in "Collateral."

GROVE: You know, Tom Cruise as a hitman, as a villain. Very different kind of role for him, coming from DreamWorks August 6. Tom Cruise with gray hair. This is no longer the teenage appeal Tom Cruise. This is an adult appeal movie. DreamWorks very smart to open it August 6, because from August 13 to August 29, of course, you run into the Olympics from Athens. And that's big competition for the adult audience. So they're getting it out early in August. That should perform very nicely.

PILGRIM: Even bigger competition than a picnic. Thanks very much, Marty Grove.

GROVE: Pleasure, Kitty, thanks.

PILGRIM: Have a great holiday.

Still ahead, an influential consulting firm is urging American companies to send more jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. We'll have a full report when we return in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Stocks fell slightly ahead of the holiday weekend. The Dow lost 51 points. The Nasdaq fell 9 and the S&P lost 3.5. The disappointing jobs report played a role in the markets, and Christine Romans is here with more on that -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, Kitty, jobs growth has been slowing since March, and 35 states still have fewer jobs today than when the recession started. Today the president said we are making progress. Ten months in a row of job gains, and he said he will not rest until every American who wants one has a job, but a noted consulting group says any company who wants to remain in business should consider shipping those jobs overseas. A report from Boston Consulting Group says American firms risk extinction if they hesitate in shifting their facilities to countries with lower costs, like specifically China and India. The report also points to the view held by many top American executives that the quality of workers in this country is getting worse.

Kitty, this consulting firm essentially says outsource and -- or die, and yes, Boston Consulting does make money recommending the companies outsource to overseas labor markets.

PILGRIM: This topic is something that's absolutely critical to this election. It's getting so much attention.

ROMANS: Absolutely. And we have three more jobs reports until that election. So you can imagine we're going to be very focused on jobs, how quickly they're being created, and where they're moving to.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Christine Romans.

Let's look at some of your thoughts. Izzy in Maine wrote in about that particular Boston Consulting Group report. And wrote: "It appears the consulting groups are using scare tactics with American companies, saying they risk extinction if they hesitate to shift production facilities to countries with lower costs. Sounds pretty threatening to me. Maybe we should outsource the consulting firms."

And D. Corbin of Tennessee wrote -- "Our Homeland Security Department turns away five ships from entering U.S. ports, yet thousands of illegal aliens cross our borders every day. When are we going to get tough on this huge problem? It looks as if the only way we're going to stop it is to get rid of the politicians that let it happen."

And Elizabeth from Washington wrote: "It's been many years and billions of dollars since we've declared a war on drugs. If this new war on terror is as equally as successful, we are in big trouble."

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com.

Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll. First, a reminder to do look at our Web site for the complete list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting America. Cnn.com/lou.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll -- 60 percent of you believe the United States should reduce the number of American troops in Iraq, 9 percent do not and 32 percent say not yet.

Well, thanks for joining us tonight. A note about "Time" magazine's Baghdad bureau chief Michael Ware. We had hoped to talk with him tonight from Iraq, but he was unable to be with us, and we hope to have him with us soon. Please join us Monday. Our special report, "Made in America," companies that are keeping jobs in this country and finding it's good for business. We hope you will be with us.

For all of us here, have a great weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 2, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, GUEST HOST: Tonight, new violence in Iraq one day after an Iraqi court charged Saddam Hussein with mass murder. Terrorists attack a hotel used by Westerners in Baghdad, and insurgents killed four American troops.
Tonight, I will talk with "TIME" magazine's bureau chief in Baghdad, Michael Ware.

Job growth slows sharply in June. The economy created 112,000 new jobs, half the number expected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't need boom- or bust-type growth. We want just steady, consistent growth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Tonight, I will talk about the economy and its impact on the presidential election with Ron Brownstein at the "Los Angeles Times" and Mark Morrison at "BusinessWeek."

And Bill Cosby launches an outspoken attack on some African- Americans. Cosby says they are wasting the opportunities won by the Civil Rights Movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: We don't have time to argue about who's right and who's wrong. We've got too many children in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: The Reverend Jesse Jackson says he shares Cosby's concerns. Jesse Jackson is my guest tonight.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, July 2. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening.

Today in Iraq, insurgents launched a new wave of attacks against coalition targets. The military said insurgents killed four American troops in the last 24 hours.

And in Baghdad, terrorists fired a rocket into a hotel used by Westerners. At least two Iraqis were wounded.

Jane Arraf reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): It was an image that many Iraqis might have dreamed of for years but never thought they'd see: Saddam Hussein shackled. Those photographs released today from the ex-president's court appearance on Thursday. He was led into the courtroom by two Iraqi guards, unshackled, as he was led in, but, clearly, a Saddam Hussein who has lost almost everything.

Now that Saddam is in custody and about to face trial doesn't mean the violence has stopped. Still ongoing attacks in Baghdad and in other parts of the country, but, as for a lull when many people had expected some of the worst attacks over the last few days, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez winding up his tour here after more than a year says that they've taken some measures to try to prevent that violence.

LT. GEN. RICARDO SANCHEZ, U.S. ARMY: I think there were some operations that we conducted, and, coupled with the late transfer of sovereignty, I think that was effective in creating a little bit of instability on the part of the insurgents, and that's good news.

By no means are they done. We believe that they will continue to strike at the political process, they'll continue to strike at the basic infrastructure of the country, and we've got to defeat them.

ARRAF: Earlier on Friday, very early in the morning, a rocket was fired that hit the hotel complex where many journalists and Western business people stay. No one was killed in the attack. Between two and four Iraqis were injured by shrapnel. It was the kind of a attack that's happened here before: rockets put on a makeshift platform and launched from just across the street.

Officials here blame foreign fighters increasingly for the violence here, but, in some good news, three hostages have been released. Two Turkish nationals and a Pakistani truck driver held by different groups have called home to say that their captors have released them. The Pakistani was under the threat of beheading.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: For the first time, Arab countries have offered to send troops to Iraq. Jordan and Yemen both said they will consider sending peacekeepers if the new Iraqi government requests them. At the moment, the United States provides nearly all the international troops in Iraq.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): Iraqis may be in control of their government, but not in total control of security. Iraqi forces still lack basic training and equipment, leaving the role of policing the country largely to the 138,000 U.S. forces.

Defense experts predict it will be a shaky start for the new interim government without a strong Iraqi military.

FRANK GAFFNEY, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: I am somewhat uneasy, to be honest, about whether the people that it's being handed off to are up to the job, whether they've got anything like the kinds of institutions that are necessary to sustain them.

SYLVESTER: NATO has made it clear it will not commit forces to stabilize Iraq, offering only to help train the new army. Representative Duncan Hunter says Europe should do more, arguing the United States bore the brunt of the cost of the European operation in the Balkans.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: We ended up doing all the air power, all the air refueling, all the expensive stuff, and so we brought the stakes to the picnic, and the other countries, in some cases, brought the plastic forecasts.

SYLVESTER: The United States has been helped by 20,000 multinational troops, mostly from Britain and Poland. But even in the United States were able to convince the French, Germans and the Indians to take on a greater role, there are those who believe it won't make a big difference.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: That might allow us to reduce our total troop contribution from 140,000 to 120,000, for example, but it's not going to change the basic fact that it will still be an American-dominated operation and still be very dangerous for whoever's soldiers are trying to make this happen in Iraq.

SYLVESTER: The United States' final exit won't happen until the Iraqi forces are able to stand on their own.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: The United States is not only having trouble attracting more foreign troops, but also maintaining the ones who are there. Spain pulled out the last of its troops in June, and, this week, Britain bowing to domestic pressure declined to send 3,500 more troops to Iraq -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

Lisa Sylvester.

Well, as Lisa just reported, NATO has agreed to help train Iraqi troops and police, but U.S. efforts to enlist NATO's help have run into a familiar problem: French resistance. The United States wants NATO to take a leading role in the Iraqi training program, but France says NATO's role must be limited to coordination. Well, CNN has learned the Pentagon may tell the families of U.S. troops based in Bahrain to leave the country. Bahrain is the headquarters of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet, and officials are concerned about the growing threat of a terrorist attack.

Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, Kitty, tonight, Pentagon sources tell CNN that up to 900 military dependents will be ordered to leave Bahrain because of credible intelligence that the Americans in that city could be the target of a terrorist attack.

Also, U.S. officials are irked that six al Qaeda suspects arrested by the Bahraini government on July 22 have been released. In fact, they were released the next day for lack of evidence.

A State Department official told CNN that the six were "bad guys" and that their release has left the United States quite concerned about Bahrain's commitment to fight terror. A State Department travel warning issued July 1 pointedly says, "Credible information indicates that extremists remain at large" -- underline remain at large -- "and are planning attacks in Bahrain."

Now the United States has some 4,500 troops in -- military personnel stationed in Bahrain, which is the headquarters of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet. There are no plans to withdraw any of those troops or curtail military operations, but, by reducing the number of family members in the kingdom, the U.S. hopes to lower the footprint and the vulnerability of U.S. forces to a terrorist attack.

Now Bahrain is just a short drive from Saudi Arabia, across a causeway, where in the -- so far this year, five Americans have been killed. Now the U.S. says that while it's not happy with Bahrain for letting those al Qaeda suspects go, Bahrain, on the other hand, is not too happy either that the United States is sending a signal that the kingdom is not safe for Westerners -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Jamie, how important is Bahrain to the war on terror?

Jamie, how important is Bahrain to the war on terror?

Jamie can't hear us.

Thanks very much.

MCINTYRE: I'm sorry. We're having a technical problem. I'm not able to hear you.

PILGRIM: Jamie McIntyre.

Still to come, a dramatic week in Iraq, but insurgents continue to attack U.S. troops and Iraqis. I will talk with Michael Ware, "TIME" magazine's bureau chief in Baghdad.

The pace of job growth slowed last month. Democrats stepped up their attacks on President Bush. And we'll have a live report from the White House.

And outspoken comments about Bill Cosby about some African- Americans. Tonight, I will be joined by the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: The United States today held its highest level meeting with North Korea in two years. Secretary of State Colin Powell met the North Korean foreign minister to discuss Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program.

Maria Ressa reports from Indonesia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA RESSA, CNN JAKARTA BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): For 20 minutes, Colin Powell met with North Korea's foreign minister, Paek Nam-Sun, at the sidelines of the security forum of ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Two years ago, also at a ASEAN meeting, Powell had a cup of coffee with this North Korean counterpart. This year, the meeting was more formal. Although Powell said there was an opportunity for concrete progress, he also downplayed the initiative.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: All we did in that discussion was to reaffirm the positions that both sides took at the six-party talks last week.

RESSA: North Korea for its part toned down its anti-U.S. rhetoric.

CHUNG SONG-IL, NORTH KOREAN SPOKESMAN (through translator): Both sides agreed in principle to establish trust, which we are lacking. We agreed to that in principle, so the atmosphere at the meeting was good.

RESSA (on camera): The one thing North Korea and the U.S. agreed on today is that there is a lot of distrust between them. But observers here point out that direct high-level meetings like this can do a lot to break down that barrier.

Maria Ressa, CNN, Jakarta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: The security forum in Jakarta was not all business, however. Secretary of State Colin Powell showed a musical side rarely seen in public. Now the summit traditionally ends with a jamboree on its final night. Secretary Powell led a group of other American officials in a rousing, if somewhat out-of-tune, version of the Village People song "YMCA."

(VIDEO)

PILGRIM: Now we know why Secretary Powell's musical side is so rarely seen.

Still ahead, the economy created fewer jobs than expected last month, but the president says more jobs are on the way, and we'll have a live report from the White House.

Plus, comedian Bill Cosby marks a civil rights anniversary by lashing out at some African-Americans. We'll have a special report.

And Rainbow/PUSH Coalition founder Jesse Jackson will be our guest.

And then, Heroes. 1st Sergeant Kevin Remington earned a Silver Star by risking his own life to save others in Iraq. We'll have his inspiring story and much more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: The economy added 112,000 new jobs in June. That's less than half of what economists were expecting. The unemployment rate remained at 5.6 percent. President Bush today said despite the slow down in job creation, the economy is showing "steady growth."

Elaine Quijano is at the White House with more -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Steady and strong. That is how President Bush sees the economy, even after those new job numbers that fell short of some economists' predictions.

At a meeting today at the White House with small business owners, the president maintained that, thanks to his administration's fiscal policies, the overall economic picture is encouraging, even though today's Labor Department figures amount to less than half of what analysts had forecast. White House officials say the unemployment rate is holding steady at 5.6 percent and is below the average of the 1970s, '80s and '90s.

And President Bush says there's been consistent growth, not a boom or bust cycle, and he points to 10 consecutive months of job growth with 1.5 million new jobs created.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We've been through a recession, national emergency a war, corporate scandals, an economy which is changing. It's -- the nature of the job base is changing, and all of that means it's been a difficult period of time, yet we're strong we're getting stronger. We're witnessing steady growth -- steady growth. That's important. We don't need boom- or bust-type growth. We want just steady, consistent growth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: President Bush today also repeated a call to members of Congress for help in strengthening the economy by making tax cuts permanent, adopting a national energy policy, and by reducing what the administration calls frivolous lawsuits -- Kitty. PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Elaine Quijano.

Now President Bush's challenger today kicked off a three-day bus tour of the Midwest. In Minnesota, Senator Kerry focused on jobs and the economy. Senator Kerry blasted President Bush's economic record and said the country can do better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All Americans are deserving of an equal shot at the American dream, not just a few; that all Americans are deserving of a job that actually pays the bills, of a decent education that allows you to go forward; that all Americans have the right to drink from the same fountain of opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Joining us now are this week's news makers: Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times" and Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek".

And, gentlemen, thanks for joining us.

Let me start with you, Mark. Since you're sitting closest to me, you're my first person to ask. Let's go to the Iraq handover which has really dominated the news this week. Now that this is done, President Bush has about a 45 percent approval rating. Do you think that he will get some credit finally for this?

MARK MORRISON, "BUSINESSWEEK": Yes, I think he'll get a bump in the next round of polls. Symbolically, this is a very strong message that it looks very good. The problem is how long is does last, and it depends on whether this new government in Iraq can establish credibility, and, perhaps even more important, the -- what happens to security in the country, can we cut down on the casualties and the deaths, because that's what really resonates, I think, with voters.

PILGRIM: And all in all, not to trivialize it, but not a bad week, given the weeks we've seen in Iraq.

Also, let me ask Ron. We have Jordan saying that they may chip in some troops, peacekeepers, kind of a surprise move, an Arab country now climbing on board here. What do you make of the progress we've made and how this plays with President Bush's candidacy?

RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, overall, it's been a tough week in that regard for President Bush. It's been a good week, as Mark suggested, in the handover, both symbolizing Iraqis taking more responsibility for the problem and also giving President Bush an opportunity, which he hasn't had many of lately, to say things are proceeding in the way that we anticipated. We are moving ahead with our plan. Indeed, the trial of Saddam Hussein offers evidence in that respect as well. But on the help from abroad, I think the overall picture this week was frustrating. NATO really did the bare minimum necessary to avoid an open breach with President Bush by agreeing only to train Iraqis and not even agreeing to send forces into Iraq to do the training, basically requiring -- saying that they might have to come to Europe to do so. we are still operating in a situation where we're bearing the bulk of this burden ourselves, and, although the Jordanian commitment will be, I think, valuable symbolically, it doesn't change that reality on the ground.

PILGRIM: Yes, there's a very -- let me just add there's a very real picture this week of Saddam Hussein in the docket. Mark, doesn't that play well?

MORRISON: Yes, I think it does. It's another powerful symbol. And I was going to ask Ron whether he thinks that, to some extent, Bush has preempted or co-opted some of Kerry's ideas in terms of reaching out to the international community more aggressively and moving ahead fairly -- on a fairly expedited schedule in Iraq?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, the Kerry campaign, I think, has been frustrated over the last few months that some of the differences between the two sides has eroded as President Bush has become more willing, for example, to rely on the U.N. and the formation of this interim government.

But I think this past week under underscores the argument that Kerry is going to make and has made on occasion already. His case is that no matter what President Bush does at this point, the well has been, in effect, so poisoned that we are not going to get much help from abroad without a new president.

I think that's an argument you're going to hear more from Kerry as the sort of tactical maneuvers between the two sides look less different.

PILGRIM: Are we at a critical juncture here? I mean, is this election going to be about success in Iraq? I mean, we have this handover, but insurgency is a problem. Do you think we're at this critical moment where Iraq has to go well for us?

MORRISON: Yes, I think Iraq will be the issue, if the casualties and the losses over there continue to happen. On the other hand, I think you can see a scenario where it cools off as an issue with voters, if things go a little better than expected, and the economy becomes front and center, and, here again, Bush has some issues.

The economy's growing very well, you know, 4-percent-type growth. Corporate profits are very good. On a lot of bases, the economy is doing very well. But, with voters, they're looking at very high oil prices. They're looking at interest rates going up. They're looking at paying an arm and a leg for health insurance when they can get it, a lot of things that are rubbing consumers and voters, therefore, the wrong way.

PILGRIM: The Fed raised short-term lending rates this week. How big a deal is that? Will that be even perceived by voter or people in the economy?

MORRISON: It will be perceived because the interest rates -- the higher interest rates are already moving through and showing up on the bills for mortgages and credit cards and so forth.

PILGRIM: Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Kitty, we've been on a seesaw all year on whether it looks like Iraq or the economy will be the dominant issue. I mean, right now with voters, my sense is that Iraq is overshadowing everything else President Bush has done, in part because it crystallizes what people feel about him.

The decision seems to embody the characteristics they either like or don't like. For his fans, it shows resolve, farsightedness, a willingness to take bold steps even when there's a lot of opposition. For his critics, it seems to sort of personify a rigidity, an overly ideological approach, an unwillingness to change course when events demand it.

It could change if the temperature lowers there in terms of the casualties and the violence, but my sense is it has become such a defining aspect of his presidency that it's going to loom very large, no matter what happens. And, in fact, if things go -- if things don't go better, it will be the principal obstacle to his reelection.

PILGRIM: Let's just talk about the Supreme Court's decision to give the Guantanamo detainees their day in court. In the broader context of this, how do we interpret this in the political context and, also, in the sort of reaction to 9/11? Mark?

MORRISON: Yes, I think it feeds the idea that a lot of people have that this administration has been overly authoritarian, that it has not taken the high road that Americans would expect it to in some of the treatment of prisoners and so forth, and it just has not run a tight ship as well in terms of protecting individual rights as this process has gone forward.

PILGRIM: Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Kitty, to me, it just illuminates what, to some extent surprisingly, has become, I think, the central issue for voters in this election, which is President Bush's response to 9/11 across the board. The question: Was it an appropriate response, or did he in several ways overreact?

That is the debate. Did we go too far with the Patriot Act? Did we go too far with these detentions? Above all, was the invasion of Iraq in the name of reducing the threat of terror an overreaction or a misdirection of our energy?

In the end, I really do think this race is pivoting on a referendum up or down more than anything else on President Bush's strategy for protecting the nation after 9/11, and this decision really feeds right into that overall dynamic. PILGRIM: Let's talk about terrorism. And I clearly remember last year sitting at this desk just before the Fourth of July weekend and everyone being a nervous wreck about terrorism. It seems remarkably absent from the discussion today and all this week, not that everyone isn't prepared. It's just it doesn't seem to be at the same level of anxiety. What's your...

MORRISON: Well, there is -- there is a difference, but -- and we see that in -- and people are traveling. I mean, the tourism is back up to very high levels and airlines are booked, hotels are booked. This is really a sign that people are getting more relaxed and going about their normal lives.

On the other hand, it wouldn't take much, I don't think, to spark a reversal of that. It's -- that's the point, I think. We're very vulnerable to getting right back to where we were a year ago.

PILGRIM: Ron, you get the last word.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, we are in the new normal in that sense. I mean, terrorism is now a fact of life in America. We will never go back to the kind of consciousness we had before 9/11 when we felt safe with two oceans around us. On the other hand, it's not clear that Americans perceive themselves to be in a constant state of war the way much of the political dialogue has it.

PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much, Ron Brownstein and Mark Morrison. A pleasure. And have a great weekend.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

MORRISON: Thanks.

PILGRIM: And that brings us to the topic of tonight's poll. Do you think the United States should reduce the number of American troops in Iraq, now that sovereignty has been transferred to the Iraqis? Yes, no or not yet? Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou, and we will bring you the results later in the show.

In Heroes tonight, the incredible story of Sergeant Kevin Remington, how he put his own life on the line to save the lives of his fellow soldiers in Iraq and earned a Silver Star for his bravery.

Casey Wian has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kevin Remington's been in the military for more than 20 years. Last July, his training was put to the test in Iraq. Delivering supplies to a river patrol, Remington's convoy was bombed. The blast severely injured two soldiers, trapping them in their truck. After that, a full-scale fire firefight erupted.

1ST SGT. KEVIN REMINGTON, NORTH DAKOTA NATIONAL GUARD: You have a window of opportunity where you either do something or you do nothing or you get paralyzed by the thought process.

WIAN: Rather than leave the area, Remington made a tough call, ordering his machine gunners to keep up the fight so he could rescue the soldiers who'd been hit.

REMINGTON: I just told them to hold tight, you know, that we were going to get them out of there. Just hang in there.

WIAN: With bullets flying, Remington got the severely injured soldiers out of the vehicle and out of the so-called kill zone. Although he put the lives of other soldiers at risk, Remington says he has no regrets.

REMINGTON: If soldiers don't have the confidence that they're going to be -- somebody's going to come back for them, they may not fight as hard.

WIAN: The driver of the vehicle died of his injuries, but the actions of Remington and fellow soldiers saved the life of Specialist Brandon Erickson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He cares about his troops just amazingly. He's just -- he's the epitome of an NCO. He's a great guy. I was -- I was so glad he was over there with us.

WIAN: The military has honored Remington with a Silver Star for gallantry. But he is humble.

REMINGTON: When I look at what happened that day, I look at it this way. Over the years, the United States military has put a lot of time and a lot of money into Kevin Remington, and my hope is that day maybe I gave a little bit of that back.

WIAN: Remington will stay in the National Guard for three more years.

Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: In next week's Heroes, we'll have more of the remarkable story of Specialist Brandon Erickson, the soldier Sergeant Remington saved in Iraq.

Well, tonight's thought is on heroes, and here it is: "Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes heroes." And those are the words of former British prime minister, Benjamin Disraeli.

Let's look at some of your thoughts.

Now Lou from Florida wrote in to say, "Recent data in 'TIME' magazine indicates that of the 1.3 million jobs created in the past few months, 26 percent went to noncitizens. Isn't this another form of exporting jobs? It sounds like the typical political doublespeak." And on Broken Borders, Albert writes from New Jersey, "Failure to enforce immigration laws is pleasing to the greedy businesses who want cheap labor and to Mexico's President Fox who apparently wants to play a much larger role in the destiny of the southwestern states of the United States."

We love hearing from you. E-mail us, loudobbs@CNN.com.

We'll have more of your thoughts still ahead.

Plus, comedian Bill Cosby challenges African-American parents to teach their children. We'll have the story and the Reverend Jesse Jackson will join us with his reaction next.

A then, a hot summer at the movies. We will talk to Hollywood Reporter's Marty Grove about what's turning out to be a blockbuster movie season.

And remembering a true Hollywood rebel: a look back at the extraordinary career and life of Marlon Brando.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Comedian Bill Cosby is sparking some controversy on the 40th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act. Cosby blasted some African- Americans who he said have failed to take advantage of the civil rights movement. Byron Harlan of CNN affiliate WFLD in Chicago reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: We cannot protect ourselves if the picture of ourselves is in a trough.

BYRON HARLAN, WFLD CORRESPONDENT: It was Bill Cosby the educator who spoke with force and conviction to a crowd of mostly black people who wanted to hear more about his views on race. The message was electric, direct and clear: Stop blaming others for the problems with black America.

COSBY: It is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps -- it keeps a person frozen in their seat.

HARLAN: Bill Cosby has been in the hot seat for his remarks at Howard University last May. That event marked the 50th anniversary of the Supreme Court decision to desegregate American public schools. He said too many low-income African-Americans are not doing their part to improve their situation. He also says parents are failing children.

COSBY: Please, stop it. Stop your cursing. We want to ask the parent, stop yanking that child.

HARLAN: He also criticized entertainers, producers and black comedians for reinforcing stereotypes. COSBY: We're going to call each other names of ugliness. Comedians coming on TV, my man's so ugly, you're uglier, yuk, yuk. That's all minstrel show stuff. I'm tired of this.

HARLAN (on camera): Bill Cosby says he's especially tired of music that glorifies bad behavior. Young people here it, they emulate it, And he says it's up to parents to take control and stop it. Byron, Harlan Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Our next guest invited Bill Cosby to speak at the Rainbow Push Coalition Conference. The Reverend Jesse Jackson is the finder of the Rainbow Push Coalition. And he joins me tonight from Chicago. Thanks for joining us, Reverend Jackson.

Some people have been very critical of Mr. Cosby's remarks. But you agree with them, don't you?

REV. JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Yes. But let me say before responding to Bill that this is a significant day, this is the 40th anniversary of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. July 2, 1964. I had just left jail, so I remember it very well.

And Marlon Brando, who died today, was a huge factor in helping to challenge the culture. Marlon Brando and Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. and Harry Belafonte. And for all he did to make America better, I want to offer condolences to the family of Marlon Brando, a hero not just on the screen but a hero in the streets and the commitment to social justice and to peace.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Reverend Jackson for adding that to our broadcast. Let me go back to my initial question, however, how do you react to Mr. Cosby's remarks?

JACKSON: Well, Bill's intent was to inspire, to lift up, not to put down. And there's a context of what Bill said. We were on the 50th anniversary, the '54 Supreme Court decision, was obviously schools are still unequal, unequal by race, and when you're behind, you cannot afford to put less than your best effort.

You do not find degradation with self-degradation and self- destruction. Bill's appeal is for parents to take charge of a relationship early on. Why can't parents take your child to school, meet your child's teacher, exchange home numbers, turn off the TV three hours a night, pick up your child's report card. That level of values will add value. That really was a prodding and a charting for us to do better.

PILGRIM: I think that would strike accord with any parent. However, Mr. Cosby did say that young African-Americans are failing to honor the sacrifices of those made during the civil rights movement. Would you agree with that?

JACKSON: And that's true for too many. Because there are too many high school drop-outs with no place to go. Of those in jail, 90 percent are high school drop-outs, 80 percent of them are on some nonviolent drug charge and 75 percent are recycled back into the system.

And while there is, in fact, race targeting, no profiling, there's no doubt about that, against those odds what do you do? If you're behind, you run faster. You may not be responsible for being down, but you must be responsible for getting up.

We all aware that under Mr. Bush, leave no child behind has left 2 million behind, and 300,000 afterschool programs have been wiped out. But having said all of that, what do you do? If you're an athlete, why do we do so well in football, basketball, baseball? We practice harder, we're more determined and we run faster because we will to excel.

Bill is saying will to become scientists, physicians, doctors, lawyers, judges, astronauts, apply the same commitment to academics that we do athletics and we will achieve much more and we will break the cycle of self-destruction and self-degredation. It's strong medicine, but it's good advice.

PILGRIM: Do you think this kind of straight talk more should be done of this?

JACKSON: The fact is, it's not a new message. It's in every church, every Sunday. It's intriguing to white people, it's not a new message to black people. I hold history of one against us. Most black children don't drop out of school. Most black parents do connect with the children and their teachers. Most of them do maintain their ambition to send their child to college or to, in fact, for them to be better off than they were.

What's new, of course, it seems a kind of intrigue by the press. My concern is there's almost no focus on -- Bill also talked about a million black votes, for this disenfranchised in the year 2000. No talk about that. He spoke of an inadequate number of well paid teachers, he spoke of too few psychologists for children who are in emotional trouble. That was dismissed. Only the part of kind of challenging blacks as if will Bill was getting blacks. He was not getting blacks.

He was challenging blacks against these odds, do what the did, put your life on the line, work hard. We have the brains and strong minds. He in effect is saying let nothing break your spirit. It's not new for people to degrade us, but let's not set the grade, let's not self-destruct, let's do our best against the odds, and in spite of the odds, we will achieve.

PILGRIM: Wow. Reverend Jesse Jackson, thanks very much.

JACKSON: Thank you.

PILGRIM: Still ahead, we will talk about this summer's blockbusters will the "Hollywood Reporter's" Marty Grove. He says, this could be a record-setting Fourth of July weekend.

And Hollywood mourns the loss of a legend. We'll look back at the career of Marlon Brando when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Movie lovers are mourning the death of one of the greatest screen actors of all time. Marlon Brando died yesterday in a Los Angeles hospital. He was 80 years old. Brando gave nuance portrayals of some of the big screen's most complicated characters. His own life was even more complex.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARLON BRANDO, ACTOR: Hey, Stella!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marlon Brando's life was remarkable for his professional triumphs and for his personal tragedies.

BRANDO: I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was widely recognized as the greatest American actor of his generation with performances spanning from the 1950s including "Julius Caesar," to the 1970s with the controversial but critically acclaimed "Last Tango in Paris" to the 1990s with "Don Juan DeMarco."

BRANDO: There isn't anything that pays you as much money as acting while you are deciding what the hell you're going to do with yourself.

You know that I've been on to you from the start and not once did you pull the wool over this boy's eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His 1951 screen performance as the tortured young Stanley Kowalski in Tennessee Williams' "A Streetcar Named Desire" made an indelible impression on audiences and critics alike. That role and others created the myth and allure of Brando, the image of a rebel, a dangerous and attractive sex symbol.

BRANDO: You don't understand. I could have had class. I could have been a contender. I could have been somebody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His inevitable stardom from "Streetcar" and his Oscar-winning performance on "The Waterfront" three years later put Brando squarely in the public eye, a position with which he never felt comfortable.

BRANDO: One thing that has been very problematic about being an actor and getting some measure of celebrity is the fact that you lose your identity and everybody calls you instantly Mr. Brando instead of, hey you, and then people make up notions. They want your autograph.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his autobiography entitled "Brando: Songs My Mother Taught Me," the actor wrote, "I don't think I ever liked being a movie star. No matter what I say or do people mythologize me."

BRANDO: Ship's company. I'm taking command of this ship. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His uneasiness with stardom and publicity drove Brando away from Hollywood and away from the United States to live for a time in Tahiti where he'd film the remake of "Mutiny on the Bounty." There he began a relationship and a family with one of his Tahitian costars.

BRANDO: I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Brando's professional stature continued to grow he retreated into a personal shell made evident to the world in his refusal to accept his second Oscar in 1972 for his performance in "The Godfather." Instead, he sent a representative to protest the treatment of Native Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what Marlon Brando has in his heart is that the image of Native Americans in this country of the United States should be changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brando later said he felt like a prisoner to his celebrityhood.

BRANDO: The idea of being successful and having a lot of money and having all your dreams come true is completely crazy. I've had so much misery in my life being famous and wealthy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total sentence imposed is ten years in the state prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christian Brando was the oldest of Brando's nine children from several marriages. He was sentenced in 1991 after pleading guilty to manslaughter in the shooting death of 26-year-old Dag Drollet, the boyfriend of Christian's half sister Cheyenne.

BRANDO: I saw him dying, laying there and I (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cheyenne remained in Tahiti and refused to testify against Christian. She tried many times to commit suicide and ultimately hanged herself in 1995 at her mother's home in Tahiti. At an earlier court hearing for his son, Marlon Brando said he felt responsible for the events leading up to the shooting.

BRANDO: I think that perhaps I failed as a father. Your tendency is always to blame the other parent, but I'm certain that there were things that I could have done differently had I known better at the time. But I didn't. I did the best I could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christian Brando was released from prison in early 1996. Marlon Brando had already seemed to make peace for himself over the tragedies and disappointments in his life.

BRANDO: To regret is useless in life. It belongs to the past. The only moment we have is right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite his private sadness, Brando's legacy may continue to be measured by his public triumphs preserved on film.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: And part of Brando's legacy is his influence on a whole generation of actors. For more on that I'm joined by Martin Grove of the "Hollywood Reporter" and he joins me tonight from Los Angeles. Always a pleasure, Martin.

MARTIN GROVE, "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": Kitty, it's lovely to see you unfortunately on this sad occasion of the loss of Marlon Brando. You know, one of the things about Brando people don't realize is his training as an actor on the stage. Now we all know he did "A Streetcar Named Desire" as a movie, but he did it first on stage in New York in 1947 and was acclaimed for the performance there of Stanley Kowalski.

PILGRIM: Marty is there anyone like Brando out there today? You see almost every movie that's out there.

GROVE: I'm afraid you're right. I do. And there really isn't -- the closest that I can come up with is Johnny Depp. Interestingly enough, Brando and Johnny Depp did do a movie together in 1995 which was "Don Juan DeMarco" not one of Brando's great movies nor one of Johnny Depp's.

But Depp has that same kind of bad boy characteristic and yet he's good enough that he can get away with it. I think that's the thing about Brando that we don't see anymore. We don't see people who are really good who may have temperaments and so forth but that are good enough that you put up with them. Marlon Brando was unique. He was just one of a kind.

PILGRIM: Interesting. Let's go on to the movie weekend. Everyone's dying to see a new movie. It's the great weekend for seeing a movie. Fourth of July weekend. Let's talk about the summer movies that are out already. "Spiderman 2." That was one of biggest openings ever, right?

GROVE: "Spiderman 2" is off to a sensationally record-setting start. On Wednesday it grossed just over $40 million. On Thursday it came in at almost $24 million. So as it went into this three-day weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it had almost $64 million plus. So where is it going?

Hollywood handicappers think $175 million is possible. Some of them are saying even more. This is a great movie-going weekend, but the Fourth of July itself is not a great day and Hollywood is never happy, Kitty, when July Fourth falls on a Sunday because it kind of takes away from the business you normally get on Sunday and on July Fourth you have a lot of competition. You got people who want to go to the beach and to see fireworks and picnics and barbecues and all kinds of parties that conflict with moviegoing.

So July Fourth itself is not a great day. It's very weather dependent by the way. If you have rain, thunderstorms, showers, anything like that...

PILGRIM: There goes the picnic. GROVE: Moviegoing benefits.

PILRIM: That's exactly right. Let's move on. "Fahrenheit 9/11" generating quite a bit of buzz. Not all of it all that positive. Some of it some people think it's great, it's really split out. Where do we go from here? Quite a surprise.

GROVE: Well, you know, where we go from here is into more theaters. This picture which opened first in 868 theaters, expanded this weekend and so now it's playing in close to 1,700 theaters. It's obviously going to reach people in many, many more cities across the country. Now whether it runs out of audience is something we have to wait and see.

This past week, watching the daily numbers, they have gone down. Starting out Monday at about 4.5 million, trailing down to about 3.5 million on Thursday. But now that it's in more theaters, we may find, you know, a new audience. Certainly Michael Moore is a master of media manipulation. He keeps this film in the spotlight and that's what sells movie tickets.

PILGRIM: Quite a bit of buzz. Let's get to one more. I think we only have time for one more. "De-Lovely" which is the new Cole Porter movie looks very charming.

GROVE: It is one of my favorite films. In fact, I can tell you sitting here today it's going to be on my top 10 list in December. That's how good it is. Kevin Kline and Ashley Judd, who you see there on the screen, he plays Cole Porter, she plays Linda Porter. It is just beautifully done. Irwin Winkler directed it. It is a wonderful musical. The music of Cole Porter, of course, needs no introduction from me. The movie works. I think it will be an Oscar contender. And it simply is great adult entertainment. If you're not up for "Spider-Man 2," if you're not up for popcorn movies, go see "De- Lovely." I think you will enjoy it.

PILGRIM: OK, one more, Tom Cruise in "Collateral."

GROVE: You know, Tom Cruise as a hitman, as a villain. Very different kind of role for him, coming from DreamWorks August 6. Tom Cruise with gray hair. This is no longer the teenage appeal Tom Cruise. This is an adult appeal movie. DreamWorks very smart to open it August 6, because from August 13 to August 29, of course, you run into the Olympics from Athens. And that's big competition for the adult audience. So they're getting it out early in August. That should perform very nicely.

PILGRIM: Even bigger competition than a picnic. Thanks very much, Marty Grove.

GROVE: Pleasure, Kitty, thanks.

PILGRIM: Have a great holiday.

Still ahead, an influential consulting firm is urging American companies to send more jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. We'll have a full report when we return in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Stocks fell slightly ahead of the holiday weekend. The Dow lost 51 points. The Nasdaq fell 9 and the S&P lost 3.5. The disappointing jobs report played a role in the markets, and Christine Romans is here with more on that -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, Kitty, jobs growth has been slowing since March, and 35 states still have fewer jobs today than when the recession started. Today the president said we are making progress. Ten months in a row of job gains, and he said he will not rest until every American who wants one has a job, but a noted consulting group says any company who wants to remain in business should consider shipping those jobs overseas. A report from Boston Consulting Group says American firms risk extinction if they hesitate in shifting their facilities to countries with lower costs, like specifically China and India. The report also points to the view held by many top American executives that the quality of workers in this country is getting worse.

Kitty, this consulting firm essentially says outsource and -- or die, and yes, Boston Consulting does make money recommending the companies outsource to overseas labor markets.

PILGRIM: This topic is something that's absolutely critical to this election. It's getting so much attention.

ROMANS: Absolutely. And we have three more jobs reports until that election. So you can imagine we're going to be very focused on jobs, how quickly they're being created, and where they're moving to.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Christine Romans.

Let's look at some of your thoughts. Izzy in Maine wrote in about that particular Boston Consulting Group report. And wrote: "It appears the consulting groups are using scare tactics with American companies, saying they risk extinction if they hesitate to shift production facilities to countries with lower costs. Sounds pretty threatening to me. Maybe we should outsource the consulting firms."

And D. Corbin of Tennessee wrote -- "Our Homeland Security Department turns away five ships from entering U.S. ports, yet thousands of illegal aliens cross our borders every day. When are we going to get tough on this huge problem? It looks as if the only way we're going to stop it is to get rid of the politicians that let it happen."

And Elizabeth from Washington wrote: "It's been many years and billions of dollars since we've declared a war on drugs. If this new war on terror is as equally as successful, we are in big trouble."

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com.

Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll. First, a reminder to do look at our Web site for the complete list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting America. Cnn.com/lou.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll -- 60 percent of you believe the United States should reduce the number of American troops in Iraq, 9 percent do not and 32 percent say not yet.

Well, thanks for joining us tonight. A note about "Time" magazine's Baghdad bureau chief Michael Ware. We had hoped to talk with him tonight from Iraq, but he was unable to be with us, and we hope to have him with us soon. Please join us Monday. Our special report, "Made in America," companies that are keeping jobs in this country and finding it's good for business. We hope you will be with us.

For all of us here, have a great weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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