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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Kerry Campaign Focuses on War in Iraq; Consumer Financial Records Sent Overseas

Aired September 08, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Senator John Kerry focuses on the war in Iraq rather than Vietnam, criticizing U.S.-Iraq policy and the direction of our economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Because of George W. Bush's wrong choices, we're spending $200 billion in Iraq, while we're running up the biggest deficits in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Exporting America. Not only are companies shipping millions of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. They're sending our personal financial records as well. A special report tonight.

Russia promises an aggressive campaign against global terrorism. Russia says it will use preemptive strikes against radical Islamist terrorists around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forget about parking your car. It's at valet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forget about getting your drink of water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: The movie is "A Day Without a Mexican," a new comedy about what will happen in California should all the Mexicans disappear. It debuts in New York. The film's director and leading actress are our guests.

And NASA's Genesis space probe to the sun has returned home. A mission to discover the origin of the universe has a bad ending.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sorry we didn't get to perform the midair retrieval that we've trained so hard to perform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, September 8. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, Senator John Kerry has turned to the offensive. He accused President Bush of misleading this country on Iraq and misleading the country on the direction of our economy.

Senator Kerry blasted President Bush for spending $200 billion on Iraq and said that money would have been better spent helping working Americans who are struggling with rising health care and education costs and a weak job market.

Ed Henry reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next president of the United States, John Kerry!

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry launched his latest attack from the historic Union Terminal, a major transfer point for American soldiers in World War II, the very spot where President Bush made the case for war in Iraq nearly two years ago.

KERRY: Here in Cincinnati, he promised to lead a coalition. But he failed to build the kind of broad, strong, real coalition and he rushed to war without a plan to win the peace.

HENRY: While reminding the audience that more than 1,000 American soldiers have died in Iraq, Kerry continued to bear down on the domestic front, repeatedly talking of the war's other costs at home.

KERRY: Because of George W. Bush's wrong choices, we're spending $200 billion in Iraq, while we're running up the biggest deficits in American history, the biggest deficits announced yesterday and the biggest debt. They are raiding the Social Security Trust Fund in order to pay for their mistakes in Iraq.

HENRY: Bush-Cheney campaign officials fired back that Kerry's speech marks his eighth different position on the war, and they say Kerry erred when he charged that the president had fired Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki for arguing that more troops were needed in Iraq.

KERRY: When he didn't like what he was hearing, he even fired the Army chief of staff.

HENRY: Officially, Shinseki retired, but Kerry officials tell CNN that the general was ostracized for speaking out and the candidate stands by his statement. Aides say Kerry wants to take the gloves off amid Democratic grumbling that he is not hitting back hard enough.

The speech came as the campaign unveiled a tough new ad.

ANNOUNCER: George Bush's wrong choices have weakened us here at home.

HENRY: And Kerry's running mate called on the president to denounce Vice President Cheney's claim Tuesday that a Democratic victory in November might invite a terrorist attack.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: President Bush today, for his part, was meeting with congressional leaders about reforming the nation's intelligence agencies. President Bush adjusted his position on just how much power the proposed director of national intelligence should have.

David Ensor has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At his meeting with congressional leaders, an important signal on post-9/11 intelligence reform from President Bush.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that there ought to be a national intelligence director who has full budgetary authority. We will talk to members of Congress about how to implement that.

ENSOR: Those three new words from the president, "full budgetary authority," were good news for families of 9/11 victims who have been pressing for a new national intelligence director to have real budget control of the entire intelligence community, including agencies like the National Security Agency, now under Pentagon control.

But the White House also made public a fact sheet that says the NSA and others should remain under the Department of Defense, so skeptical Democrats said they will wait to see the fine print.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: As you know, with all of this it's the devil is in the details.

ENSOR: For its part, the Kerry campaign, in a statement said, "If George W. Bush were serious about intelligence reform, he'd stop taking half measures and wholeheartedly endorse the 9/11 commission recommendations."

On Capitol Hill, the nation's acting chief intelligence officer, John McLaughlin, said the key thing is for his more powerful successor to have real budget and hiring power, so as to be able to move fast against threats.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, ACTING DIRECTOR, CIA: A national intelligence director needs to be able to say to his operating -- or her operating agencies, I need five from you and five from you and five from you, and I need them in two or three days, and they need to be up and running in this room with these computers and this information technologies -- these systems with these databases flowing to them in order to move with maximum agility and speed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: If many billions of dollars of budget control do indeed move from the Pentagon to a new intelligence director, that would be a major power shift in this town which does not like change. It still will not be easy, though, Lou, it does look like it just may happen.

DOBBS: Which is quite a development from just two months ago.

David Ensor reporting from Washington.

Thank you.

In Iraq today, two more American soldiers were killed in separate roadside bomb attacks. The death toll for American forces in Iraq now 1,004.

Separately, a U.S. helicopter crashed in western Iraq. Its crew was rescued, and U.S. warplanes pounded insurgents' positions in Fallujah today.

Walt Rodgers reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There was an upswing of violence again today. Yesterday and the day before, the fighting was centered in Sadr City, U.S. soldiers fighting the Medhi Army there.

Today, however, the fighting seems to be in Fallujah, in the Sunni triangle. U.S. aircraft bombing suspected Iraqi rebel command and control centers there.

Recall that on Monday of this week, seven U.S. Marines were killed outside Fallujah in a deadly suicide car bomb attack on their transport vehicle In the last four days, 17 U.S. service personnel have been killed in Iraq.

Still, the American generals' here strategy, at least with regard to Fallujah, seems to be to encircle the city, lock it down, but do not commit American troops to more ferocious fighting there, as we saw in April earlier in this past year.

There has been a rash of assassinations of public officials here -- hospital directors, police detectives, even politicians. Assassinations, of course, are launched by the insurgents, aimed at destabilizing the American attempt to build a democratic society here.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: My next guest was once a top counterterrorism adviser to President Bush. He quit that job five days before the war in Iraq. He is now the national security adviser for Senator John Kerry.

Rand Beers joins me tonight from the Kerry campaign studio in Washington, D.C.

Good to have you with us.

RAND BEERS, KERRY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you. Good to be here.

DOBBS: Let's begin with the approach Senator Kerry is now taking, sharply criticizing the Bush position on Iraq, but it is -- is it not also true that Senator Kerry just last week was saying that he would have done precisely the same thing as he voted at the outset of approval for the war in Iraq?

BEERS: I think that what Senator Kerry is saying is that following the authorization vote, he would have done everything differently from the president of the United States.

What he is saying is that he would have taken the time both to make sure that the inspectors had an opportunity to complete their inspections, he would have taken the time to build an allied coalition of real size and substance, and he would have made sure that we had a plan for all eventualities instead of just the rosiest scenario, and he would have made sure that we had equipped the troops before they went into Iraq.

So it's...

DOBBS: But, Rand...

BEERS: ... not that he wouldn't have voted. But he would have taken different choices after the vote.

DOBBS: Had he been president.

Covering all of the contingencies, as you suggest, Rand, would have been a difficult uphill mission for anyone, the most gifted statesman.

The issue here really is: At least we are, for at least this day, leaving a 35-year-old war behind us and focusing on one that we've been fighting now for a year and a half.

The fact is the American people, it seems to me at least, Rand, want to know what a President John Kerry would do about Iraq in specific terms in stark detail. Can you help us with that?

BEERS: What John Kerry would do today and what the president is not doing is he would go to a number of capitals around the world and seek additional support from the international community.

Secondly, instead of spending a lot of time and not getting very far, he would work at a much more accelerated pace to train Iraqi security forces in order to ensure that they were ready to take over these missions.

And finally, he would make sure that the election had a chance of taking place on the time that it is supposed to, which is no later than the end of January of early next year.

DOBBS: Are you suggesting that you and Senator Kerry don't believe that that election will take place?

BEERS: Well, we've had these reports from the Pentagon yesterday suggesting that the violence in the Fallujah triangle -- in the Sunni triangle area are raising questions as to whether or not there will be enough security and stability for elections to take place freely and fairly throughout the country. So I think we'll have to wait and see on that, but the situation right now looks rather grim.

DOBBS: Grim? The fact is that General John Petreus is training up Iraqis at a remarkable clip by most expert assessments to bring forward Iraqi forces replacing U.S. forces. That is simply going to be a long procedure.

Do you -- does the senator have a plan for the U.S. mission in Iraq that goes to the issue of democratization in Iraq, that goes to the issue of pluralism in Iraq, that goes to the issue of the Israeli Palestinian peace process, if that is not a misnomer, and democratization of the region itself? What is the position there?

BEERS: Well, with respect to Iraq and the process of democratization, John Kerry would have started some time ago but would certainly be working very vigorously right now to ensure that the major ethnic communities were in constant contact with one another and really dealing with the difficult issues that got papered over during the period of the coalition provisional authority so that these communities would, in fact, all have a real stake in the future of Iraq instead of seeing it as a zero sum game. So I think that that's where we would be starting.

The election process is obviously deeply critical to making this work, but it can't just be one person, one vote. It has to be representative democracy, but protection of minority rights, and, if that doesn't take place, then there's going to be difficulty in Iraq.

DOBBS: It's necessary for us to take a commercial break here. Could I ask you to stay with us? We could return to this issue and others immediately after the commercial break. Are you comfortable with that?

BEERS: I'd be happy to do that.

DOBBS: We'll be back with Rand Beers, the national security adviser to Senator John Kerry, in just one moment.

Also ahead, precious space cargo lost possibly tonight after a three-year mission. We'll have that report coming right up.

Also tonight, exporting jobs and your most personal financial information overseas along with hundreds of thousands of American jobs.

And the bloody massacre in Russia incites anger and the threat of bold preemptive reaction by Russia in the global war on terror. I'll be joined by two leading experts on Russia tonight and radical Islamist terrorism tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: We're talking with Senator Kerry's national security adviser Rand Beers.

Rand, I want to turn to the issue of Russia, radical Islamist terrorism, and I'm not certain that I've heard either you or Senator Kerry discuss the war on terrorism in terms of the enemy precisely by name. That is radical Islamist terrorists.

What are your feelings about naming our enemies outright and calling this what it is, a war against radical Islamist terrorist, not a condition called terror?

BEERS: I think that that's exactly right. I think that you've hit the nail. It is radical Islamic terrorism, radical Islamic fundamentalism that we're concerned about here. That's who the enemy is.

It's a many faceted movement, centered originally on al Qaeda, but now much more a group of affiliates around the world, all of whom are moving in the same general direction, but not necessarily with a clear and concise set of guidelines disseminating from the mouth or the mind of Osama bin Laden.

DOBBS: Senator Kerry's position on Russia? The Bush administration has been generally supportive of the Putin government. Any departure there on the part of Senator Kerry?

BEERS: Well, I think that, obviously, we're going want to work with the Russian government when Senator Kerry becomes president, but I think that one of the things that I certainly would be concerned about -- and Senator Kerry is -- is that it can't be a one-dimensional relationship.

This can't simply about dealing with terrorists in Russia or around the world. It also has to be a political and an economic relationship that deals with issues like the democratization process in Russia, economic relationships and a level economic playing field.

DOBBS: So Senator Kerry would then reinstitute something abandoned more than a decade ago, that is a linkage between U.S. economic interests and foreign policy, dealing not only with Russia, but presumably nations around the world?

BEERS: I think that that would be part of our relationship, yes.

DOBBS: Let me turn, Rand, to Vice President Dick Cheney's comments about the upcoming election -- and if we could roll that -- and I'd like to get your reaction to the vice president's statement which garnered considerable attention and generated considerable controversy, if we could listen to the vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today on November 2 we make the right choice because, if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again, that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States and that we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mindset, if you will, that, in fact, these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts and that we're not really at war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Rand, your reaction to that statement? Is there -- first, your reaction generally to that suggestion by the vice president and then specifically to the idea that he seems to be suggesting strongly that the Democratic candidates look at the war against terrorism, radical Islamist terrorism, as a law-enforcement action rather than a war.

BEERS: Well, I think that the statement is completely out of bounds and over the line. I think that a vice president of the United States or any presidential or vice presidential candidate who makes statements like that is being disrespectful of the American political process and ought to apologize to the American people and to the individuals toward whom those comments were directed.

Yes, we have a choice here today, and that's what the American people are facing, but to suggest that there's a difference between the way that John Kerry would fervently prosecute the war against these terrorists versus the way the president would is disrespectful of all of the things that John Kerry said.

Now I would say that John Kerry would do much more than the president and the vice president would do, but I don't think that anyone can say that John Kerry is only interested in pursuing a law- enforcement approach.

DOBBS: Rand Beers, we thank you very much.

National security adviser to Senator John Kerry.

That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight, and the question is straightforwardly: Do you believe Vice President Cheney should renounce his comment suggesting a Kerry presidency would increase the risk of a terrorist attack in the United States? Yes or no? Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Coming up next, Exporting America. High-valued jobs, your personal information, private records streaming out of this country along with hundreds of thousands of jobs being outsourced to cheap overseas labor markets. Another American industry being exported. We'll have that special report.

And a state government importing foreign workers to do state contract work for, of all things, the unemployment department of a state. Tonight, two sharply different views in our Face Off debate. And Russia is now threatening bold action against radical Islamist terrorists around the world after the brutal attack on school children. We'll hear from two leading experts on Russia and terrorism.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues with more news, debate and opinion. Here now Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: This disturbing news just in to CNN tonight. Immigration officials tonight say a human smuggling ring in Detroit brought more than 200 illegal aliens into this country. An issue of even greater concern in this development is the origin of those illegal aliens -- Iraq, Jordan and other Middle Eastern countries.

An indictment, unsealed today, shows that smugglers have been in business since 2001. Immigration officials say no ties to terrorism have been found, but the investigation is early in its stages.

Turning now to the exporting of America. The shipment of manufacturing jobs to cheap foreign labor markets is well documented. The shipment of jobs to cheap foreign labor markets in technology, financial services as well.

But, tonight, another industry critical to our economy is being exported to the lowest foreign bidder. Financial services firms are shipping jobs and your personal financial records overseas at a staggering rate.

Kitty Pilgrim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That paperwork on your loan or banking account is not always being done in the States. About 80 percent of financial services offshoring goes to India. There, workers process loans, when U.S. firms are closed, at a third less cost.

Last February, e-loan began presenting their home equity loan customers with a choice of having the paperwork done here or in India. Eighty-seven percent of customers chose India because it was up to two days faster.

CHRIS LARSEN, CEO, E-LOAN: You have to tell them about it and then actually give them a choice, so they can decide, you know, I'm not going take advantage of those efficiencies and I'd rather stay here domestically. So we think that's the right compromise, and that's what we've done.

PILGRIM: Some say financial service jobs will go the way of manufacturing, a slow and steady erosion. One survey points out the example of Levis. The jeans manufacturer began outsourcing its production in the 1970s and closed its last U.S.-based factory in 2003, three decades to completely move manufacturing offshore.

A survey of the largest financial services firms finds 10 percent of financial services will be sent overseas by 2005 and 20 percent by the year 2010. But experts agree not all financial service jobs will migrate.

MICHAEL HANEY, CELENT COMMUNICATIONS: There are definitely jobs that require a personal relationship, services jobs that will never be off-shored essentially because of that relationship that's required. You'll see this in private banking. You'll see this in sales and trading and in the securities and investments industry.

PILGRIM: Some companies have found, however, that moving jobs to India or overseas was not a good fit. Lehman Brothers canceled a contract in India, saying it was dissatisfied with worker training. Conseco moved 75 percent of their offshore jobs back to the Midwestern United States. And Capital One stopped telemarketing from India because it was not up to their standards.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Now this issue of personal security is the highest in financial services. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced the Safe I.D. Act which would require permission from the customer before the company could send personal financial data overseas to an outsourced firm -- Lou.

DOBBS: It's one of the areas we're being outcompeted by the European Union, which requires a consumer's permission before those personal records are sent overseas.

PILGRIM: It's very clear there are not enough safeguards in place for this.

DOBBS: It's an absurdity, and corporate America, meanwhile, says they're going to accelerate the pace of outsourcing, not constrain it.

Kitty, as always, thank you.

Kitty Pilgrim.

While companies continue to export middle-class American jobs overseas, state governments in this country are continuing to bring foreigners here to do state government work.

The Nebraska Department of Labor has signed a contract with a foreign company that will bring as many as 15 Indian workers to the State of Nebraska, and their goal: to update the state's computerized unemployment system, and that's the topic of our Face Off tonight.

Joining us from Lincoln, Nebraska, the commissioner of labor Fernando Lecuona who signed a contract with the Indian firm TCS, a subsidiary of Tata -- he says there is no one in the United States with the expertise to do that job -- and State Senator Matt Connealy who says bringing those Indians to work on the unemployment system is a cruel, cruel joke. We thank you both for being here.

Let me begin with, first, the -- you say there's no one in this country who can do this work, sir?

FERNANDO LECUONA, LABOR COMMISSIONER, STATE OF NEBRASKA: No, that's not exactly what I said. What I said is that on a competitive bid process, we were looking for someone who had the expertise and the ability to get the job done on time, on budget and provide the quality product that we were looking for...

DOBBS: So obviously...

LECUONA: ... and so that's what we contracted for.

DOBBS: So, obviously, you put this out for bid.

LECUONA: That's correct.

DOBBS: And by how much was TCS the low bidder?

LECUONA: Well, actually, I was surprised. They weren't the lowest bidder, but we...

DOBBS: They weren't the lowest bidder?

LECUONA: They weren't the lowest bidder, if you just look at price alone, but there was 126 criterion by which -- this rigorous process that we went through with the evaluation team that was in charge of awarding the contract, which I eventually signed. And this is not about outsourcing. It is not about offshoring. It is about bringing jobs and creating jobs in Nebraska.

DOBBS: How are you creating jobs by giving 15 jobs to foreign workers?

LECUONA: Well, you have to understand the company that provides the services that we've contracted for had the expertise that we were looking for in order to write the software programs that the unemployment insurance benefits payout system requires.

Having 25 percent of that workforce be hired from the local unemployed information technology pool that we have in the state was something that we demanded in our contract.

We also demanded that the Indian firm who is based in the United States here -- any workers that they brought in had to live in the State of Nebraska for the remainder of the two-year period. That would also stimulate the local and state economy.

DOBBS: All right.

Senator Connealy, your thoughts on this?

MATT CONNEALY (D), NEBRASKA STATE SENATOR: We, in government, have to do a better job. We have to create an environment so that we can build the capacity to do that here in Nebraska and around the country.

I just think that government has to be held to a higher standard. We're not looking at the bottom line all the time. We ought to make sure that we build an education system and environment so that our contractors can do this job. I think that other states are doing that. We ought to do it here in Nebraska, too.

Indiana, in case and point where they went ahead and helped companies get ready for a bid and gave them the opportunity to get a leg up so that they could build the capacity here. We had testimony last year in hearings that companies like Calco (ph), here in Nebraska, had gone from 100 I.T. people down to 40. They are I.T. people here in Nebraska that could do these jobs. And I think the government has to step up and help them get that contract.

DOBBS: You want this contract ended, do you not?

CONNEALY: I'd like Nebraskans to be able to do it and Americans to do it. Whether we can stop this contract, I don't know. But I think it is something for other states to look at, to make sure we build the capacity to happen.

DOBBS: Let me give you a couple facts. The Information Technology Association of America, the lobbying arm for the technology industry in this country, acknowledged today that they're only going hire just about half as many people in the technology industry this year as they did a year ago, after saying outsourcing was a great thing, it would create more jobs. We have plenty of people in this country, as you both know, who are talented, capable. I mean, we created 20 million jobs in this country in the '90s, and suddenly the work force in 2004 is a bunch of idiots, uneducated and incapable? I mean, I find that difficult to believe.

CONNEALY: We're not going to have the capacity if we don't continue. We've lost a lot of jobs here in Nebraska and across the country in the I.T. industry. We need to keep those people employed. They're the best in the world. And we have to give them the help, especially on the government end. I can't stop...

DOBBS: Well, you knows -- you guys are having studies and having conferences and committee hearings. And I appreciate that, that's all good government. But I have to ask you both, and Bush if I may turn to you first. Aren't you captured by the irony of an unemployment function of government bringing in L1 or H1A's or B's visa holders to take on these tasks, when perfectly capable talented Americans are available to work on this?

LECUONA: Well, you know, I don't disagree with the capabilities that exist in the American work force. Obviously, if there's training opportunities that we can provide them to do a better job and meet the demands that we're asking for, we certainly want to do that. But I would also say that when we looked at the bidding requirements of this job, the TFC American companies was the only ones that agreed to do the work in Nebraska and hire from the Nebraska work pool. You know, we couldn't get that guarantee from the other companies that bid on the project. So, all things considered, we feel we did the right thing for the right reason.

DOBBS: Commissioner, we thank you very for being with us. Senator, thank you very much.

It just gets curiouser and curiouser, as you both are experiencing here I know. We thank you both for sharing your thoughts.

Tonight's thought is on America.

"I pray we are still a young and courageous nation, that we have not grown so old and so fat and so prosperous that all we can think about is to sit back with our arms around our money bags. If we choose to do that I have no doubt that the smoldering fires will burst into flame and consume U.S. dollars and all."

Those the words of Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th president of the United States.

There are new questions tonight about President Bush's military record. Whether he dodged some of his service in the air national guard.

White House correspondent John King has the report for us -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, those questions being raised both by news organizations and by people who are known to be Bush political critics. Let's start with news organizations. A "Boston Globe" story this morning focused mostly on this document here, signed by President Bush in 1973 when he was enrolling at Harvard Business School. And in this document the president agreed he would affiliate himself with another guard unit while in Boston.

"The Globe" says it's analysis of all available records show that the president did not keep that commitment. That he never kept his commitment to affiliate with a guard unit while at Harvard Business School. The White House says that is flatly untrue. And tonight they are pointing to this document and other documents released months ago by the White House that show in fact Mr. Bush was affiliated with a unit in Denver Colorado and listed Harvard Business School as his address.

The White House says that's all the president needed to do, it was in inactive reserve service. And that is all he needed to do while he was at Harvard. We have had our military analyst General Don Shepperd who once headed the Air National Guard at the Pentagon, review these records. And he agrees with the White House assessment. That is one of the allegations circulating today. Another is the familiar charge that when Mr. Bush transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972, that he never showed up for duty. Some Democrats say he was AWOL. You're seeing pictures of President Bush from those days. Democrats say he was AWOL.

Now a group calling itself Texans for Truth funded by George Soros and other liberals, who have been airing ads critical of President Bush, is airing an ad which a pilot who says he was in that unit said he never saw Mr. Bush and that he should have seen Mr. Bush had hey reported for duty.

Here at the White House today, they say that payroll records and other records prove that Mr. Bush did show up for duty in Alabama. White House communications director Dan Bartlett says the president is ahead in the polls and his critics are getting desperate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BARTLETT, W.H. COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: This is a group funded by moveon.org. These are all the Democrat 527s out there. And their strategy, now that President Bush is ahead in the polls, we're going try to bring him down. So, let's recycle old charges. Let's trot out a bunch of Democrats and other people who are going to make claims that are false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, the White House says the documents and other facts prove Mr. Bush did fulfill his service. They said he would not have been honorable discharged if he was not. But Lou, they are also bracing for days, if not weeks of criticism. Senator Kerry' Vietnam service has been under the spotlight. Mr. Bush's is at least temporarily in this campaign -- Lou.

DOBBS: John, I'm going share a thought with you. You may have the distinction of just having filed the last report on what either of these men did 35-years-ago on this broadcast. The fact, so much of this rancor and dispute over the service that has been documented by the air national guard, by the United States Navy. The fact that these 527s are embroiled in this. The focus is so much on what these men did or did not do 35-years-ago. Both have been elected to state office, one a Lt. Governor, another a governor. One president of the United States, and another served in the Senate for two decades. I think on this broadcast, we're going try to go beyond that and turn to what both of these men want to do for this country over the next four years.

John, what do you think of that idea?

KING: Well, Lou, I'll be happy to participate in that. I can't tell you that there are officials in both campaigns who think these issues are ripe. Not so much for what these men did 35-years-ago, but for how it affects their credibility now. But I can also tell you, that take this new revelation or accusations about President Bush today. Many of the Kerry campaign say they want no part of this. That if there is any evidence that would call Mr. Bush's previous story into question, that's fine but they don't want to talk about it. Because they think they have much more important business they need to conduct if they are going reverse President Bush's momentum at the moment.

DOBBS: Well, John, we thank you very much, as always, for your outstanding reporting. And we're going to -- that's our commitment here. We're through with 35-years-ago and we're moving to now and the future.

Thank you, John King, senior White House correspondent.

Still ahead, Russia vows attacks against terrorists. We'll be discussing Russian politics and the global war against radical Islamists with two leading experts.

And tonight a new film, it's debuting next week, depicting California's reliance on 14 million people who have a common characteristic. This new comedy "A Day Without a Mexican." The director and leading actress are my guests. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: In the wake of the deadly siege at a Russian school last week, Russian officials say they are prepared to take preemptive strikes against radical Islamist terrorists in any region of the world now.

More than 300 are already confirmed dead from that siege. The final death toll is expected to reach as many as 600 people, many of them, if not most, children.

Now to discuss this recent act of terrorism in Russia, its impact on the global war on terror and its influence on international relationships, I'm joined by Dimitri Simes, president of the Nixon Center; and Ivan Eland, senior fellow at the Independent Institute.

We thank you very much for being here, gentlemen. Let's, if I may turn to you first, Dimitri, the situation in which Vladimir Putin finds himself with an attempt at a separatist movement in Chechnya, terrorism that is rising and is even more horrific with each incident, what is he to do? Is he pursuing, as best you can discern, a correct course?

DIMITRI SIMES, PRESIDENT, THE NIXON CENTER: Not quite. I agree with him that he should not negotiate with so-called separatists. Separatist leaders are either outright terrorists, or people who cooperate with terrorists.

And most important, if you look at public opinion polls in Chechnya, I mean real, credible, independent public opinion polls, they suggest that most Chechens are tired of the war. They are reconciled to being a part of russia. There is no reason for Putin to talk to Chechen separatist leaders.

On the other hand, there is every reason for him to encourage genuine political process in Chechnya and to allow new leaders to emerge who are prepared to be part of Russia, but who want more democracy. So far...

DOBBS: We should point out -- I'm sorry, Dimitri. Excuse me for interrupting. But we should point out to our viewers that Chechnya is an autonomous unit of the Soviet Republic, has been part of the Soviet empire and Russia, in point of fact, for 150 years, almost 150 years. SIMES: Lou, that's quite correct. And the recent presidential elections in Chechnya, they promised the elections to be credible, to be fair. They were not. That really discourages a lot of Chechens and damages Putin's effort to encourage Chechens to participate in the war against the terrorists.

DOBBS: Ivan, Vladimir Putin, the Russian government today made it clear, they are going to go after radical Islamist terrorists, those associated with the Chechnyan separatist movement, those they hold responsible for the violence that has been exacted on their population anywhere in the world. Is this a turning point in the war against global terror?

IVAN ELAND, SR. FELLOW, INDEPENDENT INST.: Well, I think we shouldn't have a global war against terror. I mean, the Chechnyan -- the Chechen terrorism is a localized conflict, and I think our fight against al Qaeda, we should concentrate on that, the United States. And I don't think that either the United States or Russia should be fighting a global war against terror. We need to fight the people that are, you know, attacking us, and let the other countries like Russia deal with their own problem.

DOBBS: Those people who are attacking us are?

ELAND: Well, al Qaeda. And I think we need to go after them. We can't just blanket -- make a blanket statement that we need to fight radical Islamic terrorism because frankly, the Chechen problem doesn't really affect us too much, and it's a Russian problem.

DOBBS: As is the fight against al Qaeda for us, except presumably, 10 of the people, the Russians discovered in that school house, who carried it out were from Arab states, apparently; it's early, but suggesting that part of al Qaeda, or Ansar al-Islam. What is your reaction to that?

ELAND: Well, there always has, I think, been some al Qaeda connection with the Chechens. But al Qaeda is a big organization and has a lot of local groups which are usually concentrated on local targets. But the fact that we can't fight all these people, and I think we need to concentrate on the ring leaders of the al Qaeda proper and we need to -- certainly, we can help the Russians with law enforcement and that sort of thing. And we can trade intelligence with them on our respective problems, but I don't think that the president is right in making this a global war on terror.

Are we going to fight Hamas, Hezbollah, are we going to fight the Irish Republican Army? Are we going to fight the Chechens? I think we need to focus on the main trunk of al Qaeda and neutralize it, both through law enforcement and, if we need to, as a last resort, military action.

DOBBS: Dimitri Simes, do you agree that that's an approach for the relationship between the United States and Russia in particular and the war on -- I happen to agree, I do not like the term "war on terror," but for different reasons. I think it should be straightforwardly a war against radical Islamist terrorists. Your thoughts, Dimitri?

SIMES: Well, I agree with Ivan up to a point. Clearly, nobody is asking the United States to fight against the Chechen separatists or against the Irish Republican Army. That's not a credible proposition. It's not needed.

On the other hand, there are a lot of intelligence exchanges and I don't agree that the Chechens are not a problem for the United States. Quite a few of them were trained by Taliban, by al Qaeda, fought in Afghanistan against American forces.

The Chechen terrorists in many places, in Europe, planning attacks against the United States. These people are interconnected. We have to keep (ph) both them separately and together.

DOBBS: Dimitri Simes, Ivan, we thank you very for being here -- Ivan Eland, Dimitri Simes, for sharing your thoughts. Come back soon, because this relationship between the United States and Russia is at a critical juncture it seems to many and we appreciate your insights.

Thank you, both.

Just ahead here, life without Latinos? That's the promise behind the controversial comedy "A Day Without a Mexican." I'll be talking with the film's writer, director, writer and leading actress. They're two very bright, talented folks.

And later here, it orbited the sun for more than three years but the Genesis spacecraft had a less honorable end than origin. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A controversial new comedy is set to debut in several major cities across the country. "A Day Without a Mexican" highlights the contributions Latinos make to this country, specifically to California. In the film, Californians awaken to discover 12 million Hispanics in the state have disappeared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have lost our pride. We have lost our dignity. We have lost our Mexicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A day without a Mexican!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forget about getting a glass of water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Joining me now, two of the film's writers, the husband and wife team of Sergio Arau and Yareli Arizmendi. Sergio is also director of the film, Yareli is the leading actress.

We welcome you both.

YARELI ARIZMENDI, WRITER, "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN": Thank you for having us here.

SERGIO ARAU, WRITER, "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN": Thank you.

DOBBS: That's a wonderful clip. And the film debuts here in New York City next week. You have also debuted the film in Mexico. I know it's doing well, but I want you to have the opportunity to tell us how well. How well is the film doing, Yareli?

ARIZMENDI: Well, it's the second-highest box office in the history of Mexican film in Mexico.

DOBBS: Congratulations.

ARAU: Thank you. We're so excited.

DOBBS: We've been talking about this movie for months now. What caused you to create the movie?

ARAU: Well, in '94 we were working here in New York and I was so depressed because I became invisible when I moved here. I mean, I became -- minority for the first time in my life. I didn't speak the language. I came here because -- love reasons.

ARIZMENDI: We had met when I went to Mexico to do "Like Water for Chocolate."

DOBBS: So what prompted the movie itself, the idea of a day without Mexicans in California?

ARIZMENDI: Coupled with his, you know, depression, his invisibility, Pete Wilson was in California, launching his re-election campaign and Proposition 187.

DOBBS: Which denied social services to illegal immigrants.

ARIZMENDI: Right. And the way that he got over on that was, basically, we're spending so much money on these people. I'm like, tell them how much they make for the state of California.

So it was kind of this justice thing. Like setting the record straight between the private and also the public, and in New York you had a day without art when they would close museums and remember artists that died of AIDS.

So I turned to Sergio and said, do you know what California needs? It's a day without a Mexican and see if that way they appreciate what Latinos bring to the state. And from then on...

DOBBS: The idea of a comedy to make a profound social statement is a wonderful idea. It's an entertaining idea. And it's a beneficial idea. But the issue in California, because Hispanics are so integrated and so fundamental to the society of California, indeed the entire country. It sort of begs the question, why not a day without illegal aliens if I could suggest that?

ARIZMENDI: Well... DOBBS: Do you see my point? Because most Hispanics in California first think of themselves as Californians and Americans before they think of themselves as Mexicans.

ARIZMENDI: Yes. But they are always Latinos. We are always kind of pushed to the Latino thing depending on what generation you are of Californian. I mean, if you were there before California was even the United States, right, you're a Californian.

DOBBS: You'd be a very old person. The movie debuts on September 17?

ARAU: 17th, here in New York.

ARIZMENDI: New York, Chicago, Miami, San Antonio, Austin.

DOBBS: Terrific movie, terrific people. We thank you very much for being here. Yareli, Sergio, all the best.

ARAU: Thank you very much.

ARIZMENDI: Thank you.

DOBBS: Still ahead here, we'll share some of your thoughts about exporting America.

And a major disaster could mark the end of what is an almost $300 million project for NASA. Details when we continue. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A major mission failure for NASA, hopes dashed, a multimillion dollar hole in the Utah desert in point of fact. The Genesis space capsule crashed at a speed of nearly 200 miles an hour. This after its parachutes failed to open. Stunt helicopter pilots had been enlisted to catch the capsule on a hook before it hit the ground, but those pilots had practiced 17 times for today's event, what no one anticipated was that the parachutes for Genesis would not open. The condition of the solar wind samples inside those capsules not immediately known. Scientists remain hopeful that some of those returning elements can be used.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Tekena in Houston, Texas. "At the expense of the hardworking people of this country, this administration is exporting jobs away for short-term profits and long-term trade deficits. It's funny how all the tax cuts don't seem to be curbing corporate greed.

Mary Shaw, Colorado Spring, Colorado. "Outsourcing jobs overseas is a stab in the back to all the American workers who have made this country what it is. Now the fruits of their labor are being enjoyed by foreigners while they have been robbed of their futures."

And John Krogstad of Burlington, Massachusetts. He responded to our poll question last night saying, "do you believe the interests of the American middle class are well-represented in the U.S. Congress? Of course, not. Money talks. Sometimes it talks so loudly that people can not be heard."

Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@CNN.com. Send us your name, your address so that we can send each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast a copy of my new book "Exporting America."

Still ahead here the results of our poll, a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight overwhelming. 90 percent of you say Vice President Cheney should renounce his comments suggesting a Kerry presidency would increase the risk of a terrorist attack on the United States. Ten percent do not. Thanks for being with us.

Join us tomorrow. Senator Tom Harkin joins us. We'll be talking about overtime pay. Senator Bob Graham on his new book, "Intelligence Matters." For all of us here, good night from New York and happy anniversary to Anderson and the entire staff of "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Many happy returns on this your first anniversary.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired September 8, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Senator John Kerry focuses on the war in Iraq rather than Vietnam, criticizing U.S.-Iraq policy and the direction of our economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Because of George W. Bush's wrong choices, we're spending $200 billion in Iraq, while we're running up the biggest deficits in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Exporting America. Not only are companies shipping millions of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. They're sending our personal financial records as well. A special report tonight.

Russia promises an aggressive campaign against global terrorism. Russia says it will use preemptive strikes against radical Islamist terrorists around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forget about parking your car. It's at valet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forget about getting your drink of water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: The movie is "A Day Without a Mexican," a new comedy about what will happen in California should all the Mexicans disappear. It debuts in New York. The film's director and leading actress are our guests.

And NASA's Genesis space probe to the sun has returned home. A mission to discover the origin of the universe has a bad ending.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sorry we didn't get to perform the midair retrieval that we've trained so hard to perform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, September 8. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, Senator John Kerry has turned to the offensive. He accused President Bush of misleading this country on Iraq and misleading the country on the direction of our economy.

Senator Kerry blasted President Bush for spending $200 billion on Iraq and said that money would have been better spent helping working Americans who are struggling with rising health care and education costs and a weak job market.

Ed Henry reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next president of the United States, John Kerry!

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry launched his latest attack from the historic Union Terminal, a major transfer point for American soldiers in World War II, the very spot where President Bush made the case for war in Iraq nearly two years ago.

KERRY: Here in Cincinnati, he promised to lead a coalition. But he failed to build the kind of broad, strong, real coalition and he rushed to war without a plan to win the peace.

HENRY: While reminding the audience that more than 1,000 American soldiers have died in Iraq, Kerry continued to bear down on the domestic front, repeatedly talking of the war's other costs at home.

KERRY: Because of George W. Bush's wrong choices, we're spending $200 billion in Iraq, while we're running up the biggest deficits in American history, the biggest deficits announced yesterday and the biggest debt. They are raiding the Social Security Trust Fund in order to pay for their mistakes in Iraq.

HENRY: Bush-Cheney campaign officials fired back that Kerry's speech marks his eighth different position on the war, and they say Kerry erred when he charged that the president had fired Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki for arguing that more troops were needed in Iraq.

KERRY: When he didn't like what he was hearing, he even fired the Army chief of staff.

HENRY: Officially, Shinseki retired, but Kerry officials tell CNN that the general was ostracized for speaking out and the candidate stands by his statement. Aides say Kerry wants to take the gloves off amid Democratic grumbling that he is not hitting back hard enough.

The speech came as the campaign unveiled a tough new ad.

ANNOUNCER: George Bush's wrong choices have weakened us here at home.

HENRY: And Kerry's running mate called on the president to denounce Vice President Cheney's claim Tuesday that a Democratic victory in November might invite a terrorist attack.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: President Bush today, for his part, was meeting with congressional leaders about reforming the nation's intelligence agencies. President Bush adjusted his position on just how much power the proposed director of national intelligence should have.

David Ensor has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At his meeting with congressional leaders, an important signal on post-9/11 intelligence reform from President Bush.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that there ought to be a national intelligence director who has full budgetary authority. We will talk to members of Congress about how to implement that.

ENSOR: Those three new words from the president, "full budgetary authority," were good news for families of 9/11 victims who have been pressing for a new national intelligence director to have real budget control of the entire intelligence community, including agencies like the National Security Agency, now under Pentagon control.

But the White House also made public a fact sheet that says the NSA and others should remain under the Department of Defense, so skeptical Democrats said they will wait to see the fine print.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: As you know, with all of this it's the devil is in the details.

ENSOR: For its part, the Kerry campaign, in a statement said, "If George W. Bush were serious about intelligence reform, he'd stop taking half measures and wholeheartedly endorse the 9/11 commission recommendations."

On Capitol Hill, the nation's acting chief intelligence officer, John McLaughlin, said the key thing is for his more powerful successor to have real budget and hiring power, so as to be able to move fast against threats.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, ACTING DIRECTOR, CIA: A national intelligence director needs to be able to say to his operating -- or her operating agencies, I need five from you and five from you and five from you, and I need them in two or three days, and they need to be up and running in this room with these computers and this information technologies -- these systems with these databases flowing to them in order to move with maximum agility and speed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: If many billions of dollars of budget control do indeed move from the Pentagon to a new intelligence director, that would be a major power shift in this town which does not like change. It still will not be easy, though, Lou, it does look like it just may happen.

DOBBS: Which is quite a development from just two months ago.

David Ensor reporting from Washington.

Thank you.

In Iraq today, two more American soldiers were killed in separate roadside bomb attacks. The death toll for American forces in Iraq now 1,004.

Separately, a U.S. helicopter crashed in western Iraq. Its crew was rescued, and U.S. warplanes pounded insurgents' positions in Fallujah today.

Walt Rodgers reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There was an upswing of violence again today. Yesterday and the day before, the fighting was centered in Sadr City, U.S. soldiers fighting the Medhi Army there.

Today, however, the fighting seems to be in Fallujah, in the Sunni triangle. U.S. aircraft bombing suspected Iraqi rebel command and control centers there.

Recall that on Monday of this week, seven U.S. Marines were killed outside Fallujah in a deadly suicide car bomb attack on their transport vehicle In the last four days, 17 U.S. service personnel have been killed in Iraq.

Still, the American generals' here strategy, at least with regard to Fallujah, seems to be to encircle the city, lock it down, but do not commit American troops to more ferocious fighting there, as we saw in April earlier in this past year.

There has been a rash of assassinations of public officials here -- hospital directors, police detectives, even politicians. Assassinations, of course, are launched by the insurgents, aimed at destabilizing the American attempt to build a democratic society here.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: My next guest was once a top counterterrorism adviser to President Bush. He quit that job five days before the war in Iraq. He is now the national security adviser for Senator John Kerry.

Rand Beers joins me tonight from the Kerry campaign studio in Washington, D.C.

Good to have you with us.

RAND BEERS, KERRY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you. Good to be here.

DOBBS: Let's begin with the approach Senator Kerry is now taking, sharply criticizing the Bush position on Iraq, but it is -- is it not also true that Senator Kerry just last week was saying that he would have done precisely the same thing as he voted at the outset of approval for the war in Iraq?

BEERS: I think that what Senator Kerry is saying is that following the authorization vote, he would have done everything differently from the president of the United States.

What he is saying is that he would have taken the time both to make sure that the inspectors had an opportunity to complete their inspections, he would have taken the time to build an allied coalition of real size and substance, and he would have made sure that we had a plan for all eventualities instead of just the rosiest scenario, and he would have made sure that we had equipped the troops before they went into Iraq.

So it's...

DOBBS: But, Rand...

BEERS: ... not that he wouldn't have voted. But he would have taken different choices after the vote.

DOBBS: Had he been president.

Covering all of the contingencies, as you suggest, Rand, would have been a difficult uphill mission for anyone, the most gifted statesman.

The issue here really is: At least we are, for at least this day, leaving a 35-year-old war behind us and focusing on one that we've been fighting now for a year and a half.

The fact is the American people, it seems to me at least, Rand, want to know what a President John Kerry would do about Iraq in specific terms in stark detail. Can you help us with that?

BEERS: What John Kerry would do today and what the president is not doing is he would go to a number of capitals around the world and seek additional support from the international community.

Secondly, instead of spending a lot of time and not getting very far, he would work at a much more accelerated pace to train Iraqi security forces in order to ensure that they were ready to take over these missions.

And finally, he would make sure that the election had a chance of taking place on the time that it is supposed to, which is no later than the end of January of early next year.

DOBBS: Are you suggesting that you and Senator Kerry don't believe that that election will take place?

BEERS: Well, we've had these reports from the Pentagon yesterday suggesting that the violence in the Fallujah triangle -- in the Sunni triangle area are raising questions as to whether or not there will be enough security and stability for elections to take place freely and fairly throughout the country. So I think we'll have to wait and see on that, but the situation right now looks rather grim.

DOBBS: Grim? The fact is that General John Petreus is training up Iraqis at a remarkable clip by most expert assessments to bring forward Iraqi forces replacing U.S. forces. That is simply going to be a long procedure.

Do you -- does the senator have a plan for the U.S. mission in Iraq that goes to the issue of democratization in Iraq, that goes to the issue of pluralism in Iraq, that goes to the issue of the Israeli Palestinian peace process, if that is not a misnomer, and democratization of the region itself? What is the position there?

BEERS: Well, with respect to Iraq and the process of democratization, John Kerry would have started some time ago but would certainly be working very vigorously right now to ensure that the major ethnic communities were in constant contact with one another and really dealing with the difficult issues that got papered over during the period of the coalition provisional authority so that these communities would, in fact, all have a real stake in the future of Iraq instead of seeing it as a zero sum game. So I think that that's where we would be starting.

The election process is obviously deeply critical to making this work, but it can't just be one person, one vote. It has to be representative democracy, but protection of minority rights, and, if that doesn't take place, then there's going to be difficulty in Iraq.

DOBBS: It's necessary for us to take a commercial break here. Could I ask you to stay with us? We could return to this issue and others immediately after the commercial break. Are you comfortable with that?

BEERS: I'd be happy to do that.

DOBBS: We'll be back with Rand Beers, the national security adviser to Senator John Kerry, in just one moment.

Also ahead, precious space cargo lost possibly tonight after a three-year mission. We'll have that report coming right up.

Also tonight, exporting jobs and your most personal financial information overseas along with hundreds of thousands of American jobs.

And the bloody massacre in Russia incites anger and the threat of bold preemptive reaction by Russia in the global war on terror. I'll be joined by two leading experts on Russia tonight and radical Islamist terrorism tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: We're talking with Senator Kerry's national security adviser Rand Beers.

Rand, I want to turn to the issue of Russia, radical Islamist terrorism, and I'm not certain that I've heard either you or Senator Kerry discuss the war on terrorism in terms of the enemy precisely by name. That is radical Islamist terrorists.

What are your feelings about naming our enemies outright and calling this what it is, a war against radical Islamist terrorist, not a condition called terror?

BEERS: I think that that's exactly right. I think that you've hit the nail. It is radical Islamic terrorism, radical Islamic fundamentalism that we're concerned about here. That's who the enemy is.

It's a many faceted movement, centered originally on al Qaeda, but now much more a group of affiliates around the world, all of whom are moving in the same general direction, but not necessarily with a clear and concise set of guidelines disseminating from the mouth or the mind of Osama bin Laden.

DOBBS: Senator Kerry's position on Russia? The Bush administration has been generally supportive of the Putin government. Any departure there on the part of Senator Kerry?

BEERS: Well, I think that, obviously, we're going want to work with the Russian government when Senator Kerry becomes president, but I think that one of the things that I certainly would be concerned about -- and Senator Kerry is -- is that it can't be a one-dimensional relationship.

This can't simply about dealing with terrorists in Russia or around the world. It also has to be a political and an economic relationship that deals with issues like the democratization process in Russia, economic relationships and a level economic playing field.

DOBBS: So Senator Kerry would then reinstitute something abandoned more than a decade ago, that is a linkage between U.S. economic interests and foreign policy, dealing not only with Russia, but presumably nations around the world?

BEERS: I think that that would be part of our relationship, yes.

DOBBS: Let me turn, Rand, to Vice President Dick Cheney's comments about the upcoming election -- and if we could roll that -- and I'd like to get your reaction to the vice president's statement which garnered considerable attention and generated considerable controversy, if we could listen to the vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today on November 2 we make the right choice because, if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again, that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States and that we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mindset, if you will, that, in fact, these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts and that we're not really at war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Rand, your reaction to that statement? Is there -- first, your reaction generally to that suggestion by the vice president and then specifically to the idea that he seems to be suggesting strongly that the Democratic candidates look at the war against terrorism, radical Islamist terrorism, as a law-enforcement action rather than a war.

BEERS: Well, I think that the statement is completely out of bounds and over the line. I think that a vice president of the United States or any presidential or vice presidential candidate who makes statements like that is being disrespectful of the American political process and ought to apologize to the American people and to the individuals toward whom those comments were directed.

Yes, we have a choice here today, and that's what the American people are facing, but to suggest that there's a difference between the way that John Kerry would fervently prosecute the war against these terrorists versus the way the president would is disrespectful of all of the things that John Kerry said.

Now I would say that John Kerry would do much more than the president and the vice president would do, but I don't think that anyone can say that John Kerry is only interested in pursuing a law- enforcement approach.

DOBBS: Rand Beers, we thank you very much.

National security adviser to Senator John Kerry.

That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight, and the question is straightforwardly: Do you believe Vice President Cheney should renounce his comment suggesting a Kerry presidency would increase the risk of a terrorist attack in the United States? Yes or no? Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Coming up next, Exporting America. High-valued jobs, your personal information, private records streaming out of this country along with hundreds of thousands of jobs being outsourced to cheap overseas labor markets. Another American industry being exported. We'll have that special report.

And a state government importing foreign workers to do state contract work for, of all things, the unemployment department of a state. Tonight, two sharply different views in our Face Off debate. And Russia is now threatening bold action against radical Islamist terrorists around the world after the brutal attack on school children. We'll hear from two leading experts on Russia and terrorism.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues with more news, debate and opinion. Here now Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: This disturbing news just in to CNN tonight. Immigration officials tonight say a human smuggling ring in Detroit brought more than 200 illegal aliens into this country. An issue of even greater concern in this development is the origin of those illegal aliens -- Iraq, Jordan and other Middle Eastern countries.

An indictment, unsealed today, shows that smugglers have been in business since 2001. Immigration officials say no ties to terrorism have been found, but the investigation is early in its stages.

Turning now to the exporting of America. The shipment of manufacturing jobs to cheap foreign labor markets is well documented. The shipment of jobs to cheap foreign labor markets in technology, financial services as well.

But, tonight, another industry critical to our economy is being exported to the lowest foreign bidder. Financial services firms are shipping jobs and your personal financial records overseas at a staggering rate.

Kitty Pilgrim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That paperwork on your loan or banking account is not always being done in the States. About 80 percent of financial services offshoring goes to India. There, workers process loans, when U.S. firms are closed, at a third less cost.

Last February, e-loan began presenting their home equity loan customers with a choice of having the paperwork done here or in India. Eighty-seven percent of customers chose India because it was up to two days faster.

CHRIS LARSEN, CEO, E-LOAN: You have to tell them about it and then actually give them a choice, so they can decide, you know, I'm not going take advantage of those efficiencies and I'd rather stay here domestically. So we think that's the right compromise, and that's what we've done.

PILGRIM: Some say financial service jobs will go the way of manufacturing, a slow and steady erosion. One survey points out the example of Levis. The jeans manufacturer began outsourcing its production in the 1970s and closed its last U.S.-based factory in 2003, three decades to completely move manufacturing offshore.

A survey of the largest financial services firms finds 10 percent of financial services will be sent overseas by 2005 and 20 percent by the year 2010. But experts agree not all financial service jobs will migrate.

MICHAEL HANEY, CELENT COMMUNICATIONS: There are definitely jobs that require a personal relationship, services jobs that will never be off-shored essentially because of that relationship that's required. You'll see this in private banking. You'll see this in sales and trading and in the securities and investments industry.

PILGRIM: Some companies have found, however, that moving jobs to India or overseas was not a good fit. Lehman Brothers canceled a contract in India, saying it was dissatisfied with worker training. Conseco moved 75 percent of their offshore jobs back to the Midwestern United States. And Capital One stopped telemarketing from India because it was not up to their standards.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Now this issue of personal security is the highest in financial services. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced the Safe I.D. Act which would require permission from the customer before the company could send personal financial data overseas to an outsourced firm -- Lou.

DOBBS: It's one of the areas we're being outcompeted by the European Union, which requires a consumer's permission before those personal records are sent overseas.

PILGRIM: It's very clear there are not enough safeguards in place for this.

DOBBS: It's an absurdity, and corporate America, meanwhile, says they're going to accelerate the pace of outsourcing, not constrain it.

Kitty, as always, thank you.

Kitty Pilgrim.

While companies continue to export middle-class American jobs overseas, state governments in this country are continuing to bring foreigners here to do state government work.

The Nebraska Department of Labor has signed a contract with a foreign company that will bring as many as 15 Indian workers to the State of Nebraska, and their goal: to update the state's computerized unemployment system, and that's the topic of our Face Off tonight.

Joining us from Lincoln, Nebraska, the commissioner of labor Fernando Lecuona who signed a contract with the Indian firm TCS, a subsidiary of Tata -- he says there is no one in the United States with the expertise to do that job -- and State Senator Matt Connealy who says bringing those Indians to work on the unemployment system is a cruel, cruel joke. We thank you both for being here.

Let me begin with, first, the -- you say there's no one in this country who can do this work, sir?

FERNANDO LECUONA, LABOR COMMISSIONER, STATE OF NEBRASKA: No, that's not exactly what I said. What I said is that on a competitive bid process, we were looking for someone who had the expertise and the ability to get the job done on time, on budget and provide the quality product that we were looking for...

DOBBS: So obviously...

LECUONA: ... and so that's what we contracted for.

DOBBS: So, obviously, you put this out for bid.

LECUONA: That's correct.

DOBBS: And by how much was TCS the low bidder?

LECUONA: Well, actually, I was surprised. They weren't the lowest bidder, but we...

DOBBS: They weren't the lowest bidder?

LECUONA: They weren't the lowest bidder, if you just look at price alone, but there was 126 criterion by which -- this rigorous process that we went through with the evaluation team that was in charge of awarding the contract, which I eventually signed. And this is not about outsourcing. It is not about offshoring. It is about bringing jobs and creating jobs in Nebraska.

DOBBS: How are you creating jobs by giving 15 jobs to foreign workers?

LECUONA: Well, you have to understand the company that provides the services that we've contracted for had the expertise that we were looking for in order to write the software programs that the unemployment insurance benefits payout system requires.

Having 25 percent of that workforce be hired from the local unemployed information technology pool that we have in the state was something that we demanded in our contract.

We also demanded that the Indian firm who is based in the United States here -- any workers that they brought in had to live in the State of Nebraska for the remainder of the two-year period. That would also stimulate the local and state economy.

DOBBS: All right.

Senator Connealy, your thoughts on this?

MATT CONNEALY (D), NEBRASKA STATE SENATOR: We, in government, have to do a better job. We have to create an environment so that we can build the capacity to do that here in Nebraska and around the country.

I just think that government has to be held to a higher standard. We're not looking at the bottom line all the time. We ought to make sure that we build an education system and environment so that our contractors can do this job. I think that other states are doing that. We ought to do it here in Nebraska, too.

Indiana, in case and point where they went ahead and helped companies get ready for a bid and gave them the opportunity to get a leg up so that they could build the capacity here. We had testimony last year in hearings that companies like Calco (ph), here in Nebraska, had gone from 100 I.T. people down to 40. They are I.T. people here in Nebraska that could do these jobs. And I think the government has to step up and help them get that contract.

DOBBS: You want this contract ended, do you not?

CONNEALY: I'd like Nebraskans to be able to do it and Americans to do it. Whether we can stop this contract, I don't know. But I think it is something for other states to look at, to make sure we build the capacity to happen.

DOBBS: Let me give you a couple facts. The Information Technology Association of America, the lobbying arm for the technology industry in this country, acknowledged today that they're only going hire just about half as many people in the technology industry this year as they did a year ago, after saying outsourcing was a great thing, it would create more jobs. We have plenty of people in this country, as you both know, who are talented, capable. I mean, we created 20 million jobs in this country in the '90s, and suddenly the work force in 2004 is a bunch of idiots, uneducated and incapable? I mean, I find that difficult to believe.

CONNEALY: We're not going to have the capacity if we don't continue. We've lost a lot of jobs here in Nebraska and across the country in the I.T. industry. We need to keep those people employed. They're the best in the world. And we have to give them the help, especially on the government end. I can't stop...

DOBBS: Well, you knows -- you guys are having studies and having conferences and committee hearings. And I appreciate that, that's all good government. But I have to ask you both, and Bush if I may turn to you first. Aren't you captured by the irony of an unemployment function of government bringing in L1 or H1A's or B's visa holders to take on these tasks, when perfectly capable talented Americans are available to work on this?

LECUONA: Well, you know, I don't disagree with the capabilities that exist in the American work force. Obviously, if there's training opportunities that we can provide them to do a better job and meet the demands that we're asking for, we certainly want to do that. But I would also say that when we looked at the bidding requirements of this job, the TFC American companies was the only ones that agreed to do the work in Nebraska and hire from the Nebraska work pool. You know, we couldn't get that guarantee from the other companies that bid on the project. So, all things considered, we feel we did the right thing for the right reason.

DOBBS: Commissioner, we thank you very for being with us. Senator, thank you very much.

It just gets curiouser and curiouser, as you both are experiencing here I know. We thank you both for sharing your thoughts.

Tonight's thought is on America.

"I pray we are still a young and courageous nation, that we have not grown so old and so fat and so prosperous that all we can think about is to sit back with our arms around our money bags. If we choose to do that I have no doubt that the smoldering fires will burst into flame and consume U.S. dollars and all."

Those the words of Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th president of the United States.

There are new questions tonight about President Bush's military record. Whether he dodged some of his service in the air national guard.

White House correspondent John King has the report for us -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, those questions being raised both by news organizations and by people who are known to be Bush political critics. Let's start with news organizations. A "Boston Globe" story this morning focused mostly on this document here, signed by President Bush in 1973 when he was enrolling at Harvard Business School. And in this document the president agreed he would affiliate himself with another guard unit while in Boston.

"The Globe" says it's analysis of all available records show that the president did not keep that commitment. That he never kept his commitment to affiliate with a guard unit while at Harvard Business School. The White House says that is flatly untrue. And tonight they are pointing to this document and other documents released months ago by the White House that show in fact Mr. Bush was affiliated with a unit in Denver Colorado and listed Harvard Business School as his address.

The White House says that's all the president needed to do, it was in inactive reserve service. And that is all he needed to do while he was at Harvard. We have had our military analyst General Don Shepperd who once headed the Air National Guard at the Pentagon, review these records. And he agrees with the White House assessment. That is one of the allegations circulating today. Another is the familiar charge that when Mr. Bush transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972, that he never showed up for duty. Some Democrats say he was AWOL. You're seeing pictures of President Bush from those days. Democrats say he was AWOL.

Now a group calling itself Texans for Truth funded by George Soros and other liberals, who have been airing ads critical of President Bush, is airing an ad which a pilot who says he was in that unit said he never saw Mr. Bush and that he should have seen Mr. Bush had hey reported for duty.

Here at the White House today, they say that payroll records and other records prove that Mr. Bush did show up for duty in Alabama. White House communications director Dan Bartlett says the president is ahead in the polls and his critics are getting desperate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BARTLETT, W.H. COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: This is a group funded by moveon.org. These are all the Democrat 527s out there. And their strategy, now that President Bush is ahead in the polls, we're going try to bring him down. So, let's recycle old charges. Let's trot out a bunch of Democrats and other people who are going to make claims that are false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, the White House says the documents and other facts prove Mr. Bush did fulfill his service. They said he would not have been honorable discharged if he was not. But Lou, they are also bracing for days, if not weeks of criticism. Senator Kerry' Vietnam service has been under the spotlight. Mr. Bush's is at least temporarily in this campaign -- Lou.

DOBBS: John, I'm going share a thought with you. You may have the distinction of just having filed the last report on what either of these men did 35-years-ago on this broadcast. The fact, so much of this rancor and dispute over the service that has been documented by the air national guard, by the United States Navy. The fact that these 527s are embroiled in this. The focus is so much on what these men did or did not do 35-years-ago. Both have been elected to state office, one a Lt. Governor, another a governor. One president of the United States, and another served in the Senate for two decades. I think on this broadcast, we're going try to go beyond that and turn to what both of these men want to do for this country over the next four years.

John, what do you think of that idea?

KING: Well, Lou, I'll be happy to participate in that. I can't tell you that there are officials in both campaigns who think these issues are ripe. Not so much for what these men did 35-years-ago, but for how it affects their credibility now. But I can also tell you, that take this new revelation or accusations about President Bush today. Many of the Kerry campaign say they want no part of this. That if there is any evidence that would call Mr. Bush's previous story into question, that's fine but they don't want to talk about it. Because they think they have much more important business they need to conduct if they are going reverse President Bush's momentum at the moment.

DOBBS: Well, John, we thank you very much, as always, for your outstanding reporting. And we're going to -- that's our commitment here. We're through with 35-years-ago and we're moving to now and the future.

Thank you, John King, senior White House correspondent.

Still ahead, Russia vows attacks against terrorists. We'll be discussing Russian politics and the global war against radical Islamists with two leading experts.

And tonight a new film, it's debuting next week, depicting California's reliance on 14 million people who have a common characteristic. This new comedy "A Day Without a Mexican." The director and leading actress are my guests. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: In the wake of the deadly siege at a Russian school last week, Russian officials say they are prepared to take preemptive strikes against radical Islamist terrorists in any region of the world now.

More than 300 are already confirmed dead from that siege. The final death toll is expected to reach as many as 600 people, many of them, if not most, children.

Now to discuss this recent act of terrorism in Russia, its impact on the global war on terror and its influence on international relationships, I'm joined by Dimitri Simes, president of the Nixon Center; and Ivan Eland, senior fellow at the Independent Institute.

We thank you very much for being here, gentlemen. Let's, if I may turn to you first, Dimitri, the situation in which Vladimir Putin finds himself with an attempt at a separatist movement in Chechnya, terrorism that is rising and is even more horrific with each incident, what is he to do? Is he pursuing, as best you can discern, a correct course?

DIMITRI SIMES, PRESIDENT, THE NIXON CENTER: Not quite. I agree with him that he should not negotiate with so-called separatists. Separatist leaders are either outright terrorists, or people who cooperate with terrorists.

And most important, if you look at public opinion polls in Chechnya, I mean real, credible, independent public opinion polls, they suggest that most Chechens are tired of the war. They are reconciled to being a part of russia. There is no reason for Putin to talk to Chechen separatist leaders.

On the other hand, there is every reason for him to encourage genuine political process in Chechnya and to allow new leaders to emerge who are prepared to be part of Russia, but who want more democracy. So far...

DOBBS: We should point out -- I'm sorry, Dimitri. Excuse me for interrupting. But we should point out to our viewers that Chechnya is an autonomous unit of the Soviet Republic, has been part of the Soviet empire and Russia, in point of fact, for 150 years, almost 150 years. SIMES: Lou, that's quite correct. And the recent presidential elections in Chechnya, they promised the elections to be credible, to be fair. They were not. That really discourages a lot of Chechens and damages Putin's effort to encourage Chechens to participate in the war against the terrorists.

DOBBS: Ivan, Vladimir Putin, the Russian government today made it clear, they are going to go after radical Islamist terrorists, those associated with the Chechnyan separatist movement, those they hold responsible for the violence that has been exacted on their population anywhere in the world. Is this a turning point in the war against global terror?

IVAN ELAND, SR. FELLOW, INDEPENDENT INST.: Well, I think we shouldn't have a global war against terror. I mean, the Chechnyan -- the Chechen terrorism is a localized conflict, and I think our fight against al Qaeda, we should concentrate on that, the United States. And I don't think that either the United States or Russia should be fighting a global war against terror. We need to fight the people that are, you know, attacking us, and let the other countries like Russia deal with their own problem.

DOBBS: Those people who are attacking us are?

ELAND: Well, al Qaeda. And I think we need to go after them. We can't just blanket -- make a blanket statement that we need to fight radical Islamic terrorism because frankly, the Chechen problem doesn't really affect us too much, and it's a Russian problem.

DOBBS: As is the fight against al Qaeda for us, except presumably, 10 of the people, the Russians discovered in that school house, who carried it out were from Arab states, apparently; it's early, but suggesting that part of al Qaeda, or Ansar al-Islam. What is your reaction to that?

ELAND: Well, there always has, I think, been some al Qaeda connection with the Chechens. But al Qaeda is a big organization and has a lot of local groups which are usually concentrated on local targets. But the fact that we can't fight all these people, and I think we need to concentrate on the ring leaders of the al Qaeda proper and we need to -- certainly, we can help the Russians with law enforcement and that sort of thing. And we can trade intelligence with them on our respective problems, but I don't think that the president is right in making this a global war on terror.

Are we going to fight Hamas, Hezbollah, are we going to fight the Irish Republican Army? Are we going to fight the Chechens? I think we need to focus on the main trunk of al Qaeda and neutralize it, both through law enforcement and, if we need to, as a last resort, military action.

DOBBS: Dimitri Simes, do you agree that that's an approach for the relationship between the United States and Russia in particular and the war on -- I happen to agree, I do not like the term "war on terror," but for different reasons. I think it should be straightforwardly a war against radical Islamist terrorists. Your thoughts, Dimitri?

SIMES: Well, I agree with Ivan up to a point. Clearly, nobody is asking the United States to fight against the Chechen separatists or against the Irish Republican Army. That's not a credible proposition. It's not needed.

On the other hand, there are a lot of intelligence exchanges and I don't agree that the Chechens are not a problem for the United States. Quite a few of them were trained by Taliban, by al Qaeda, fought in Afghanistan against American forces.

The Chechen terrorists in many places, in Europe, planning attacks against the United States. These people are interconnected. We have to keep (ph) both them separately and together.

DOBBS: Dimitri Simes, Ivan, we thank you very for being here -- Ivan Eland, Dimitri Simes, for sharing your thoughts. Come back soon, because this relationship between the United States and Russia is at a critical juncture it seems to many and we appreciate your insights.

Thank you, both.

Just ahead here, life without Latinos? That's the promise behind the controversial comedy "A Day Without a Mexican." I'll be talking with the film's writer, director, writer and leading actress. They're two very bright, talented folks.

And later here, it orbited the sun for more than three years but the Genesis spacecraft had a less honorable end than origin. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A controversial new comedy is set to debut in several major cities across the country. "A Day Without a Mexican" highlights the contributions Latinos make to this country, specifically to California. In the film, Californians awaken to discover 12 million Hispanics in the state have disappeared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have lost our pride. We have lost our dignity. We have lost our Mexicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A day without a Mexican!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forget about getting a glass of water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Joining me now, two of the film's writers, the husband and wife team of Sergio Arau and Yareli Arizmendi. Sergio is also director of the film, Yareli is the leading actress.

We welcome you both.

YARELI ARIZMENDI, WRITER, "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN": Thank you for having us here.

SERGIO ARAU, WRITER, "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN": Thank you.

DOBBS: That's a wonderful clip. And the film debuts here in New York City next week. You have also debuted the film in Mexico. I know it's doing well, but I want you to have the opportunity to tell us how well. How well is the film doing, Yareli?

ARIZMENDI: Well, it's the second-highest box office in the history of Mexican film in Mexico.

DOBBS: Congratulations.

ARAU: Thank you. We're so excited.

DOBBS: We've been talking about this movie for months now. What caused you to create the movie?

ARAU: Well, in '94 we were working here in New York and I was so depressed because I became invisible when I moved here. I mean, I became -- minority for the first time in my life. I didn't speak the language. I came here because -- love reasons.

ARIZMENDI: We had met when I went to Mexico to do "Like Water for Chocolate."

DOBBS: So what prompted the movie itself, the idea of a day without Mexicans in California?

ARIZMENDI: Coupled with his, you know, depression, his invisibility, Pete Wilson was in California, launching his re-election campaign and Proposition 187.

DOBBS: Which denied social services to illegal immigrants.

ARIZMENDI: Right. And the way that he got over on that was, basically, we're spending so much money on these people. I'm like, tell them how much they make for the state of California.

So it was kind of this justice thing. Like setting the record straight between the private and also the public, and in New York you had a day without art when they would close museums and remember artists that died of AIDS.

So I turned to Sergio and said, do you know what California needs? It's a day without a Mexican and see if that way they appreciate what Latinos bring to the state. And from then on...

DOBBS: The idea of a comedy to make a profound social statement is a wonderful idea. It's an entertaining idea. And it's a beneficial idea. But the issue in California, because Hispanics are so integrated and so fundamental to the society of California, indeed the entire country. It sort of begs the question, why not a day without illegal aliens if I could suggest that?

ARIZMENDI: Well... DOBBS: Do you see my point? Because most Hispanics in California first think of themselves as Californians and Americans before they think of themselves as Mexicans.

ARIZMENDI: Yes. But they are always Latinos. We are always kind of pushed to the Latino thing depending on what generation you are of Californian. I mean, if you were there before California was even the United States, right, you're a Californian.

DOBBS: You'd be a very old person. The movie debuts on September 17?

ARAU: 17th, here in New York.

ARIZMENDI: New York, Chicago, Miami, San Antonio, Austin.

DOBBS: Terrific movie, terrific people. We thank you very much for being here. Yareli, Sergio, all the best.

ARAU: Thank you very much.

ARIZMENDI: Thank you.

DOBBS: Still ahead here, we'll share some of your thoughts about exporting America.

And a major disaster could mark the end of what is an almost $300 million project for NASA. Details when we continue. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A major mission failure for NASA, hopes dashed, a multimillion dollar hole in the Utah desert in point of fact. The Genesis space capsule crashed at a speed of nearly 200 miles an hour. This after its parachutes failed to open. Stunt helicopter pilots had been enlisted to catch the capsule on a hook before it hit the ground, but those pilots had practiced 17 times for today's event, what no one anticipated was that the parachutes for Genesis would not open. The condition of the solar wind samples inside those capsules not immediately known. Scientists remain hopeful that some of those returning elements can be used.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Tekena in Houston, Texas. "At the expense of the hardworking people of this country, this administration is exporting jobs away for short-term profits and long-term trade deficits. It's funny how all the tax cuts don't seem to be curbing corporate greed.

Mary Shaw, Colorado Spring, Colorado. "Outsourcing jobs overseas is a stab in the back to all the American workers who have made this country what it is. Now the fruits of their labor are being enjoyed by foreigners while they have been robbed of their futures."

And John Krogstad of Burlington, Massachusetts. He responded to our poll question last night saying, "do you believe the interests of the American middle class are well-represented in the U.S. Congress? Of course, not. Money talks. Sometimes it talks so loudly that people can not be heard."

Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@CNN.com. Send us your name, your address so that we can send each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast a copy of my new book "Exporting America."

Still ahead here the results of our poll, a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight overwhelming. 90 percent of you say Vice President Cheney should renounce his comments suggesting a Kerry presidency would increase the risk of a terrorist attack on the United States. Ten percent do not. Thanks for being with us.

Join us tomorrow. Senator Tom Harkin joins us. We'll be talking about overtime pay. Senator Bob Graham on his new book, "Intelligence Matters." For all of us here, good night from New York and happy anniversary to Anderson and the entire staff of "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Many happy returns on this your first anniversary.

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