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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Florida Braces for Jeanne; Kerry Attacks Bush on War Strategy;

Aired September 24, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Florida braces for unprecedented fourth hurricane strike in one year. Hurricane Jeanne could smash into the Florida coast as soon as Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like there's a little demon running around here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Senator Kerry delivers his most forceful attack yet on President Bush's strategy in the global war on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush made Saddam Hussein the priority. I would have made Osama bin Laden the priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: President Bush says Senator Kerry is undercutting a key ally of this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The message ought to be to the Iraqi people we support you. The message ought to be Loud and clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: How can we win the global war on terror and radical Islamists? Two leading terrorism experts will join me tonight.

And courting the Latino vote. The presidential candidates battle to win the support of Hispanic voters and avoid the critical issue of illegal immigration.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, September 24. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs who is on vacation, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening. Tonight, Florida's governor has declared a state of emergency as Hurricane Jeanne charges towards the Florida coast. Hurricane Jeanne will be the fourth hurricane to strike Florida this year, and that has never happened before in one storm season.

Jeanne is currently a Category 2 hurricane, moving at 12 miles an hour. The hurricane is likely to slam into Florida as early as Sunday morning and then move north toward the Carolinas.

Tonight, officials issued a hurricane warning for all of Florida's East Coast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): Once more, residents of Florida's East Coast are preparing for the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started doing repairs, and you think you have plenty of time to fix it. Then, all of a sudden, here comes another one.

PILGRIM: Many know the drill by heart: fill up the car...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm getting gas, filling up.

PILGRIM: ... buy the plywood and cover the windows. Even the governor admits the situation is all too familiar.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I'm proud of how people have responded, and there's a lot of lessons that we've learned in this last six weeks that relate to emergencies, but also relate to everyday life. Other times, I feel like I'm Bill Murray in "Groundhog's Day."

PILGRIM: But Mary Meeser (ph), who just moved to Barefoot Bay from Michigan, says her ill health cannot take another evacuation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has really pushed me. I'm not going to evacuate. If they say come and you have to go, take me into jail then. Go ahead and take me to jail because I can't take another trip.

PILGRIM: Her daughter and son-in-law and their three children moved in with her after Hurricane Frances left them homeless.

Even NASA has not had a chance to fully repair the 20,000-square feet of missing siding ripped off by Hurricane Frances at its vehicle assembly building. The National Hurricane Center says Florida is weathering an unprecedented number of storms.

MAX MAYFIELD, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: If this makes landfall, that will be four, you know, direct hits to Florida, and I think that's the first time that's ever happened in Florida that we know of.

PILGRIM: The pattern could last for several years.

CHRIS LANDSEA, HURRICANE RESEARCHER, NOAA: We've been in a busy period since 1995, and it's part of a long-term cycle where we go back to busy conditions for about 25 to 40 years.

PILGRIM: One resident put it in much simpler terms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like there's a little demon running around here in these weather patterns.

PILGRIM: As residents monitor the weather and make preparation for Hurricane Jeanne, one waitress summed it up for her whole state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going to be rough. It's going to be rough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Officials in six counties in eastern Florida have already issued voluntary evacuation orders for coastal communities and those orders effect more than half a million people.

John Zarrella in West Palm Beach has our report -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, well, you know, pick the word -- anxiety, frustration, maddening. You know, just when Floridians thought the level of anxiety would start to go down, it ratchets right back up again. Four storms potentially in a matter of six weeks.

Here we are in West Palm Beach. They're going through the ritual again. This gas station ran out of gasoline, of fuel about three hours ago, unleaded regular. They still -- or any of the unleaded gas. They still have some diesel fuel left, and they're pumping it into the trucks that are coming in here.

Anywhere that you find gasoline is open, the lines are 20, 30 cars deep. People still pulling in here to this gas station looking for fuel. They're all out. They hope to get delivery a little bit later.

You look at the signs up here behind me in this strip mall past us. The signs from Hurricane Frances damaged, still blown down here. This is what you see all over the East Coast of Florida, the damage from Frances.

About 30 miles to the north in Palm City where we were three or four hours ago, the litter is still lining the streets. There are downed tree limbs in stacks and piles, debris that's just simply not going to get picked up before this storm potentially makes landfall somewhere along the Florida East Coast.

One woman, Toby Howell (ph), just didn't want to wait any longer, concerned that that debris could go airborne. She decided to go ahead and burn some of it today to just get it out of the way. She's been burning it all morning and had a little bit left to go this afternoon when we were there.

Another man, Paul Pelletier (ph), who had taken his shutters down -- lots of people did after Frances -- took his wood down. He was putting it back up again today, going through that ritual again, the same thing that hundreds of thousands of Floridians have done over and over again this hurricane season. And Paul Pelletier (ph), like everybody else, just saying, geez, when is it going to end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been dodging bullets forever, you know. We've seen them come our way, and then -- and, you know, you can only dodge them for so long and -- but, I mean, one after the other, that's hard to explain. I mean, what are the odds, you know? I think playing the lottery is in order this time with this kind of luck.

ZARRELLA: Pelletier had told us that he hopes in the next few months that after this all settles down and we get out of hurricane season, which ends November 30, that he'll calm down a little bit, but, right now, he was telling us that Flagstaff, Arizona, looks like a good place to move to.

As he put it, anywhere but here, and that's the sentiment of lots of Floridians this these days who have never -- and nobody has -- ever gone through here in Florida what we are about to go through, four storms and potentially another major hurricane coming ashore in the next couple of days -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

John Zarrella.

And we will have more on the direction and strength of Hurricane Jeanne later in the show. The director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, will join us with the very latest.

Now Hurricane Jeanne has already inflicted terrible damage in Haiti. The hurricane killed more than 1,000 people, many more are missing, and 300,000 people have lose their homes.

Karl Penhaul reports from Haiti.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eight convoys are slowly arriving by road, but Haitian officials say hundreds and thousands need help. The scale of the disaster dwarfs the relief effort. By the time many of these people make it through the gates, they've been nearly crushed by hundreds behind them.

(on camera): Many of the people here say they've been waiting since early morning and that they've not eaten since the weekend. That makes for an explosive mix -- hunger and desperation.

(voice-over): Denise Woze (ph) is one of the lucky ones. She says she and her three children have scarcely eaten since Tropical Storm Jeanne demolished their home.

"The house was full of mud and water. We only a piece of bread and avocado to eat. We don't even have any clothes," she says.

It's been a battle to get the hand out of rice, peas, oil and wheat. Now she must struggle home with enough supplies to help her family survive for a few more days.

It's chaos too across at the cemetery. The grave diggers say they haven't been paid for burying hundreds of storm victims. Human remains are unceremoniously dumped in body bags in the same pit with animal carcasses.

The main fight now for international relief organizations is to care for the living, and, for the desperate crowds outside of the gates, it's a fight with no holds barred, survival of the fittest.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Gonaives, Haiti.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Turning to the presidential election in this country, Senator John Kerry today made the war on terror the defining issue of his campaign. Senator Kerry delivered his strongest criticism of President Bush's strategy so far. Senator Kerry also outlined a seven-point plan to defeat global terrorism.

Bob Franken has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The afternoon rally at the University of Pennsylvania was really a send- off for John Kerry, as he headed for debate preparations with a reminder of a debate past.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN, JR. (R), DELAWARE: I know this man, and I know George Bush, and this guy ain't no George Bush, thank God!

FRANKEN: The man who is doing his dead-level best to beat George Bush had added an event at nearby Temple University, part of a new strategy of aggressively criticizing the Bush record on Iraq and terrorism. It included the fundamental message that the war in Iraq had undermined the war on terror.

KERRY: George Bush made Saddam Hussein the priority. I would have made Osama bin Laden the priority.

FRANKEN: The Bush campaign had its usual quick response, saying, "John Kerry called Saddam Hussein a terrorist before, but now he's taking the opposite position."

Kerry presented a seven-point plan, promising to make all the changes recommended by the 9/11 commission and, in effect, to do everything that Bush has done in the war on terror better.

KERRY: We are confronting an enemy and an ideology that must be destroyed. We are in a war. We are in a war that must be won.

FRANKEN (on camera): Kerry is still nursing a cold, but he's about to cut his speeches, at least his public ones, as he uses his voice for intense debate preparations with a surrogate for President Bush. The real thing happens in less than a week. Bob Franken, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: President Bush today accused Senator Kerry of undercutting the Iraqi prime minister. The president said Senator Kerry cannot lead this country if he questions the credibility of a key U.S. ally.

Elaine Quijano is traveling with president and now joins us from Racine, Wisconsin -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kitty.

Campaigning here in Wisconsin, President Bush hit back hard against those comments by Senator John Kerry regarding the interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi.

Now you'll recall that Senator Kerry yesterday said both the prime minister as well as President Bush were painting too rosy a picture of the situation on the ground in Iraq. The senator contending that the reality showed a much more unstable, much more violent environment than the administration was showing.

But the Bush administration today fighting back. President Bush here today in Racine, Wisconsin, just a short time ago and earlier at a stop in Janesville, Wisconsin, shot back, the president saying that the senator was questioning Prime Minister Allawi's credibility and suggested that demonstrated a lack of statesmanship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: You can't lead this country if your ally in Iraq feels like you question his credibility. The message ought to be the Iraqi people we support you. The message ought to be loud and clear. We're staying with you if you do the hard work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now the Kerry camp maintains that the senator was not criticizing the prime minister. They say, though, that this administration has continued not to be forthcoming on the realities in Iraq, and they say they will point out anytime they feel the president is not being forthcoming.

Meantime here in Wisconsin, an important state for the president, he talked about domestic issues as well, including the economy, education, health care. The president here in Wisconsin pushing hard. The Bush campaign feeling optimistic about its chances here.

This is a state that the president lost narrowly in 2000 by just 5,700 votes, but the campaign feels he has made significant inroads and could tip the balance of votes his way come November -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Elaine Quijano.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today made a remarkable statement about the war in Iraq. After meeting with the Iraqi prime minister in Washington, Rumsfeld said the United States could start withdrawing troops from Iraq before there is peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Any implication that that place has to be peaceful and perfect before we can reduce coalition and U.S. forces, I think, would obviously be wrong because it's never been peaceful and perfect, and it isn't likely to be. It's a tough part of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: In Iraq today, another day of violence. American troops fought insurgents in the town of Ramadi west of Baghdad. At least seven people were wounded.

In Fallujah, American aircraft and artillery bombarded suspected insurgent positions. There are no reports of any casualties.

And there is still no word tonight about the fate of British hostage Ken Bigly, but officials believe he is still alive. Bigly's kidnappers beheaded two Americans earlier this week.

Coming up, more on Iraq, the global war on terror and radical Islamists. The presidential candidates both say they can win the war terror, but who is right? Two leading terrorism experts will join me.

Wal-Mart launches a charm offensive to fight back against some of its strongest critics. We'll have a report.

And not again! People in Florida prepare for yet another hurricane, and the director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, will join me with the very latest on Jeanne's path.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Both presidential candidates agree that the global war on terror is the most urgent national security issue facing this country, but the candidates have presented very different strategies to win the war against radical Islamist terrorists, and joining me now are two leading terrorism experts.

Stephen Flynn is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and he is the author of "America the Vulnerable," and Erick Stakelbeck is a senior writer at The Investigative Project, which is a counterterrorism research institute in Washington.

And, gentlemen, thank you for being with us.

STEPHEN FLYNN, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good to be here.

ERICK STAKELBECK, THE INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT: Good to be here. PILGRIM: You know, I'd like to start with something Kerry said today, and he outlined a plan, and let's start with a comment that he said, and we'll get your reaction to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The president's misjudgment, miscalculation and mismanagement of the war in Iraq all make the war on terror harder to win. Iraq is now what it was not before the war, a haven for terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Erick, let's go to you first. What's your assessment of that?

STAKELBECK: Well, I think that, you know, Iraq is definitely right now the epicenter for the war on terror. There's not a doubt about it. In Fallujah alone, there's at least 1,000 foreign fighters in Fallujah, and Iraq is pretty much the base for a lot of al Qaeda activity right now.

But, you know, I would say that it's not just in Iraq that we have this terrorist threat. It's still around the globe. Iraq has definitely, in terms of the terrorist threat, gotten worse since the U.S. invaded, but, you know, the threat remains the same around the globe. It's not just in Iraq, and we have to do a better job around the world, not only in Iraq.

PILGRIM: Steve, your reaction, too.

FLYNN: Well, my reaction is in part, yes, it did certainly distract the bulk of the resources and the attention away from the problems that I'm very concerned with, which is we're such a soft target as a society, which is part of the attraction of engaging in catastrophic terrorism.

If you strike here, you're going to get a big bang for your buck, and there's no question that when it comes to the resources -- just take port security alone, as Senator Kerry mentioned today. We are spending in three years just the same amount of money, the $500 million that we spend every day on the war in Iraq.

So, when it comes to making investments about protecting things that are most valuable and vulnerable inside the United States and that are also part of the global community, yes, the war in Iraq has consumed virtually all of the attention of the senior players and all the resources. So that part of the war is not going as well as it needs to go.

PILGRIM: Let's turn to something that President Bush said in his speech before the United Nations, a plan to fight terror, strengthening our intelligence, our military, shutting down terrorist financing, and let's listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: We can expect terrorist attacks to escalate as Afghanistan and Iraq approach national elections. The work ahead is demanding, but these difficulties will not shake our conviction that the future of Afghanistan and Iraq is a future of liberty. The proper response to difficulty is not to retreat. It is to prevail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: All right. And, in essence, he's saying it's a long- term plan and that you have to actually go into Iraq and Afghanistan to go to the heart of this matter -- Eric.

STAKELBECK: Yes, you know, it's something that -- look, we've been in Iraq for a year and a half. We have to see this through. We can't cut and run. Today, it was announced actually that we've just put together a task force of Special-Operations agents and CIA operatives to track down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who arguably is the most wanted terrorist in the world right now, after Osama bin Laden, and he's the guy who's responsible for most of the violence that's going on in Iraq right now. So we have to take it to the terrorists without a doubt.

I think in Fallujah and I think in dealing with Muqtada al Sadr in Najaf, we've actually made a crucial mistake in not being more aggressive and in letting up. In Fallujah, for instance, back in April, we were ready to go in with the all-out assault in Fallujah. We backed off at the last second. So I think we have to be aggressive and really take it to the people like Zarqawi and al Sadr. Negotiations don't work with these kinds of people.

PILGRIM: We still don't have Osama bin Laden. We're now targeting Zarqawi. Why not pursue this?

FLYNN: Well, I think part of my concern is that the best defense is a good offense and I'm not anti-offense. If we know where to go and what to strike, want to do it.

But what we've seen really in the last three years, there is a limit to our military capabilities to track down these folks. There's also a limit to our intelligence. It will take us probably 10 or 15 years to get to the point where we'll have good tactical intelligence.

And given that this adversary is not cooperating, is not just staying in Iraq, in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but is in Madrid, they're in Canada, and, as the secretary of Homeland Security told us on the 1st of August, they're here as well, we need to basically come back with a fallback plan, which is, if your military's not going to work and your intelligence is not going to be up to speed, you better look at what's valuable and vulnerable and begin to make investments with safeguards.

My concern is all the eggs are in the offense basket. I want us to do well in the offense, but, if you can't do well, you better acknowledge when you're in a war to have a fallback position.

PILGRIM: Erick, do you agree with this? We do not have the luxury of an either-or situation, do we?

STAKELBECK: Well, no, we don't, but I think we have to continue to take the fight to the terrorists without a doubt. I mean, we can't wait for them to strike us. We have to be offensive.

This is -- you know, this is a whole different war than what we're used to, the war on terror. We have to take it to them. We can't sit back and wait for another 9/11 to happen. I agree that we do need to continue to improve our intelligence capabilities and do a better job in terms of that here at home.

But I think also in this war, with the dynamics of this war, we have to be offensive. It's not the kind of war where you can sit back and be defensive. We just don't have that luxury.

PILGRIM: All right.

FLYNN: Well, I really think you've got to do both. There's strength in not only being able to deliver a punch but being able to take one...

STAKELBECK: Absolutely.

FLYNN: ... and resilience has been a big part. If you look at the British experience and the Israeli experience, the resilience of being able to withstand terror attacks.

The reality is we're not going to win the war on terror anytime soon. There will be attacks and being prepared to deal with this could be the difference between hundreds of lost or tens or thousands.

So you can't lose sight of that goal. As a war, you need a defense as well as an offense. It's not either-or.

PILGRIM: All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much for your comments tonight and your considerable expertise.

Erick Stakelbeck and Steve Flynn.

Thank you.

Still to come tonight, Florida braces for another unthinkable storm. A powerful storm heading for the already hurricane-battered state, and we'll have the latest on where and when Hurricane Jeanne will hit that state. National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield will join us.

And then the presidential candidates are paying attention to Latino voters more in this election than in any other, and we'll have a special report on the Latino voter drive next.

And then, Wal-Mart fights back, and we'll tell you how the retailer is trying to make nice with thousands of Californians unhappy with its expansion.

Those stories and much more still ahead here tonight. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: The presidential election is just more than five weeks away, and a key voting block is expected to be Latino voters. Now, as we have reported all this week, the presidential candidates are saying little about their position on a national immigration policy, but that is not stopping them from campaigning hard for the Latino vote.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: Thank you all for coming. Bienveniedos. Ala casablanca. Thanks for coming.

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're not exactly bilingual.

KERRY: I'm asking you for your help. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I need your vote.

SYLVESTER: But that's not stopping both candidates from sharing their Spanish with Latino audiences. According to the Census Bureau, Latinos are now the largest minority in the United States. But, traditionally, Latinos have not turned out to vote.

In 2000, Hispanics were 11 percent of the U.S. population 18 and over, but represented only 5 percent of the votes cast. Hispanic groups are trying to change that with a campaign to register new voters, and they hope to use their new clout to push their legislative agenda.

ANGELA KELLEY, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION REFORM: Look, it's no secret that the newcomer vote is an important vote, and both candidates are doing somersaults to speak in Spanish.

SYLVESTER: This week, a coalition met in Washington to lobby lawmakers to pass bills that would allow illegal aliens to attend state colleges, establish a guest worker program for agricultural workers and would pave the way for illegal workers to earn legal status.

But critics say such bills hurt low-income people, including a disproportionate number of Latinos who are U.S. citizens or green card holders.

ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERS USA: When large numbers of people join the labor force, wages are suppressed. The people in the United States legally who are at the lower end of the economic scale are going to be hurt by that because job competition will increase, wages will go down.

SYLVESTER: Both Democrats and Republicans have been treading lightly, trying to win new Latino votes without alienating U.S. citizens who oppose extending rights to illegal aliens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: There's also momentum in Congress to make it harder for illegal aliens to stay in the United States. A bill introduced by the House Republican leadership today would set national standards for driver's licenses and would give local and state law enforcement more authority to round up illegal aliens -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much.

Now the hurricane devastation in Florida is expected to greatly impact the voting there. Let's turn to the very latest on the campaign, and three of the country's leading journalists join us. And from Washington, we have Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent for "TIME" magazine; Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times"; and here in New York is Jim Ellis, the chief of correspondents for "BusinessWeek".

And thank you all for being here.

First of all, we're looking at Florida, which I guess has not had its political season yet. Let's just start with that, and let's start with you, Karen.

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well,, of course, everyone knows that Florida is going to be -- you know, it's clearly one of the big prizes this year and it's going to be the sight of next week's first presidential debate, but the problem is for pollsters right now, for political professionals, nobody basically has a clue what's going on down there because of the hurricanes. It's impossible to get a reliable reading on it. So everybody's working it very hard, but nobody really knows how things are really going down there.

PILGRIM: Yes, I don't think their mind is quite on it quite yet. Let's take a look at some of the polls. The CBS poll let's start with, and it has Bush at 49 percent, Kerry at 41. So Bush has an 8- point lead.

Ron, what do you make of that?

RON BROWNSTEIN, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, there are a whole series of polls out in the last 24 hours or so that have put the race somewhere, 6, 7, 8, Karen, sitting here next to me, "TIME" magazine has a poll coming out shortly with a 6-point lead. There's a Marist poll also with a 6-point lead among likely voters.

When you look at what's going on in all of the various states, it does seem that President Bush is clearly ahead at this point. Senator Kerry and their staff feel that they have gained some ground -- regained some of the ground they lost in the last couple of weeks primarily because of growing doubts in the public which is evident in these polls about Iraq.

But it's clear that I think heading into this debate, like Al Gore in 2000, President Bush will be ahead. PILGRIM: All right. Jim, we saw the "TIME" magazine poll. We can put that up, and Bush at 48, Kerry at 42, Nader at 5. And since we last spoke, we have the Nader factor included in Florida. Bush has cut his lead a little bit in this "TIME" magazine poll. He was at 11 percent.

JIM ELLIS, "BUSINESSWEEK": Yes. I still think it's definitely his election to lose right now. I think that what happened is that a lot of people have -- they resonated on the economy for a long time. But now all of a sudden, the Iraq situation has sort of blasted back into the headlines.

It's something that the Democrats have to find a way to separate Iraq from terrorism because there's absolutely no way that they can win on the war on terrorism. The public really feels that the president is doing a very good job there.

So instead they have to sort of push the judgment issue about Iraq. The judgment, was it worth the cost, and is -- at the end of the day, is it really worthwhile for America to go into debt for years to come, and basically to pay for this in blood in American lives to basically do this, to free Iraq as opposed to keep the world free of terrorism.

BROWNSTEIN: Kitty, can I just add something there?

PILGRIM: Sure, go ahead.

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, and that really is -- what Jim is saying, is the important development in this week is that in his speech at New York University last Monday, John Kerry more I think unequivocally and aggressively than ever before, may try to make the case that Iraq should be seen as separate from the war on terror.

In fact, he argued again in his speech today, as he did last Monday, that he argued it is -- it detracted and distracted us in the war on terror.

Now whether is Kerry is credible as a messenger, as an alternative, given all of the doubts that Republicans have been able to raise about him is another question. But I think he has clearly moved in that direction and is probably making the sharpest, strongest argument that a Democrat can make against President Bush on this issue. Because much of the success the president had this summer has been precisely in linking Iraq to the war on terror.

TUMULTY: Oh, and by the way, one more thing is that one of the reasons he absolutely has to break that link is women voters. John Kerry has lost a lot of ground since the Republican Convention with women voters, and it's primarily over terrorism as opposed to those traditional kitchen table issues that normally drive so-called soccer moms.

PILGRIM: I want to ask what your reaction is to the back and forth today. The comments about Bush and Iraqi interim Prime Minister Allawi, the White House rebuttal rebuttal. It got a little bit -- well, a little bit tense. What do you think, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, I think what we're seeing is in part this whole new team that is -- has joined the Kerry campaign. What we're seeing is a lot more aggressiveness out of the Kerry campaign and they're continuing to drive this message. They have lost the timidity that a lot of Democrats were criticizing them for. And of course the Bush campaign is ready for it and they're going to hit back just as hard.

PILGRIM: Well, Ron, do you think that the Democrats were intentionally denouncing the Allawi message, it was that aggressive?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. In fact in my story today in "The L.A. Times" one of the senior Kerry advisers specifically compared Allawi to a puppet, which is part of what the White House was reacting to in that quote.

Look, this is -- what's going on here is this, the president is holding up Allawi in effect as an expert witness for his assessment of how things are going in Iraq. Three separate times in his press conference yesterday, he said in effect, the president, if you don't believe me about how things are going, ask the guy standing next to me, he's on the ground.

And of course in his speech and had in his press appearances this week, Allawi has echoed the president's arguments on points large and small about Iraq. Now what the Democrats are saying is that he is simply not a credible witness on this, both because the U.S. played a role in selecting him and also because he has his own reasons to put the best possible face on things; as John Kerry said yesterday.

It does put put Kerry on an uncomfortable position of tangling with the leader of ostensibly a friendly foreign country in the middle of a presidential campaign. And the White House and Senate Republicans were all over him on this today.

In the end, I think Allawi's impact on the race will be much more about what he does in Iraq than what he says over here. Because I do think that over time the trend of events is probably going to matter more in how people perceive this than anything -- any arguments that came out this week.

PILGRIM: You could certainly argue this, the flip side, that Allawi is on the ground, he does know the conditions and it should be irrelevant to him who wins because the United States is backing the Iraqi government. It shouldn't matter on which candidate -- Jim.

ELLIS: Yes, that would -- in end the best of all possible worlds, that's true. But I think that he's smart enough to understand that he's probably going to get a better hearing from Mr. Bush than he would from another regime here.

And so, therefore, he's sort of dancing with guy who brought him to the dance. And so he's saying what's necessary. I think it's very difficult, though, for a lot of people to sort of put a lot of credence in that -- or put as much credence in it if we didn't see this sort of crazy insurgency that's going on right now. The escalation of violence there, the sort of resumption of more kidnappings. Another six today. I mean, it's very difficult to imagine that this place is stable enough, particularly with both the U.N. and even Mr. Rumsfeld now saying that there is a possibility that we won't even be able to have complete elections there.

PILGRIM: Karen, we...

TUMULTY: And not to mention that John Kerry can bring in as his expert witness the CIA, because certainly what Allawi's picture of events, and Iraq is very much at odds with the CIA's own National Intelligence Estimate, which saw the situation in Iraq looking -- the prognosis being actually being worse as recently as July.

BROWNSTEIN: One thing that is clear in the last 24 hours, though, Kitty, is that a President Kerry-Prime Minister Allawi relationship would be a lot more complicated than it was at the beginning of the week.

PILGRIM: Yes, I think that's a fair assessment. We have to end it on that one, OK, Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein and Jim Ellis, thanks very much.

All right. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. "How much will the presidential debates influence your vote?" And we would like to know, "very much," "somewhat" or "not at all." Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou, and we'll share the results later on in the broadcast.

We have a bit more now on the newest dangerous storm charging towards Florida, Hurricane Jeanne. It's the fourth major storm this hurricane season. It's expected to make landfall within the next 48 hours and joining me now with the very latest on where, when Hurricane Jeanne will hit is the director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield.

Max, I see you way too much. Where do we stand here?

MAX MAYFIELD, NATIONAL HURRICANE: Well, Kitty, it's a strong Category 2 hurricane right now. We think that it will likely strengthen some. It could very well be a Category 3 hurricane before it gets to Florida. I think by Saturday afternoon, it will be over the northwesternmost Bahamas.

The tropical storm force winds are likely to be impacting the southeast Florida coast by then, and the hurricane force winds will likely reach the coast by tomorrow night.

PILGRIM: The last one moved very slowly, caused a lot of damage in terms of flooding. What are we likely to see here?

MAYFIELD: We're going to see damage from this one too, I'm afraid, Kitty. And we're going to have to talk about the hazard, the storm surge, the winds and the rainfall. We think that this will indeed turn more toward the north. Whether it does that right along the Florida east coast or over the peninsula itself, we can't be sure, but coastal hurricane warning goes up from Florida City all the way up to St. Augustine right now.

PILGRIM: Max, I'm going to ask you a question that's being asked at every dinner table in this country right about now. Why so many?

MAYFIELD: Kitty, I can't tell you exactly why. We've had years with a lot of hurricanes. In fact, 1985, we had six landfalling hurricanes in the United States, plus two tropical storms. But those are pretty well spread out from the Gulf and the Atlantic coast.

This year, this will be the fourth hurricane to hit Florida. So why that's happening, I don't think anybody can tell you.

PILGRIM: There's nothing unusual in the conditions this year, anything that you can pinpoint?

MAYFIELD: It's just a matter of stirring currents or in place to stir these hurricanes in the state when the systems come near the southeastern United States.

PILGRIM: I hate to ask you this, but should we be watching out for anything else coming up?

MAYFIELD: Well, we don't have to worry about Karl, don't have to worry about Lisa, but this is still September and the hurricane season goes through November. So we're not done yet.

PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Max Mayfield.

MAYFIELD: Thank you.

PILGRIM: Still ahead, the nation's largest retailer fights to repair its image in California. And we'll look at how that may affect California's economy.

Plus, one man working for the U.S. Post Office in Texas prompts a federal investigation.

And the remarkable story of a soldier wounded in Iraq who's now taking on a whole new mission.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Tonight, Wal-Mart is fighting back in California. The world's largest retailer is trying to convince Californians that dozens of new super centers will be good for the economy, but critics say that's California dreaming. Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A half-built Wal- Mart super center in Bakersfield, California: construction blocked by a lawsuit claiming Wal-Mart's wipe-out local businesses. California's now the capital of Wal-Mart backlash that believes that Wal-Mart treats its workers badly and drives down American wages. Which is why Wal-Mart this week launched a charm offensive, full-page newspaper ads up and down California. CYNTHIA LIN, WAL-MART SPOKESWOMAN: So often our critics claim that Wal-Mart jobs are minimum wage jobs with no benefits and that's absolutely false. In California, our average wage is $10.37 per hour. We pay competitive wages and we offer benefits to both full-time and part-time workers.

VILES: In ads in 15 California papers, Wal-Mart argues it offers competitive wages, comprehensive benefits, tremendous career opportunities, and that its planned super centers would save Southern Californian consumers $3.7 billion a year. That's $589 per household. Wal-Mart even broke from its usual practice and invited us into a Los Angeles store to interview employees and shoppers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean I wanted to shop here more than work here, but I got hired here. So why not do both?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tell you, before I started at Wal-Mart, I had no benefits. But it's a question of time of being at Wal-Mart, I have medical, I have dental, we have 401(k), profit sharing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love Wal-Mart. The first thing they say is welcome to Wal-Mart and that just puts a smile on my face and makes me spend all my money.

VILES: Critics who argue that Wal-Mart destroys as many jobs as it creates and drives down wages, are skeptical of the entire campaign.

KEN JACOBS, UC BERKELEY: Well, I think the ads are highly misleading and in some cases simply not true. The Wal-Mart says that their wages are competitive, or equal with other people in the industry. In fact they're 30 percent less than other large retailers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: The stakes here go well beyond Wal-Mart's image in California. Remember, the company wants to open 40 of these super center stores. If they do that, that's a big threat to the grocery industry here, but it's very important for Wal-Mart to do it. Their story on Wall Street is a growth story, Kitty. You can't grow if you are not opening new stores.

PILGRIM: Peter, what is Wal-Mart's presence in California right now?

VILES: They have a very large presence here already. 150 stores, 60,000 employees in California. They're already the second largest private sector employer in the state of California.

PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much. Pete Viles.

Tonight, a federal investigation is under way in Texas into claims that a man working for the U.S. Postal Service paid an illegal alien to do his job. The contracted worker on the western part of Hidalgo County allegedly gave an illegal alien the keys to several mailboxes in the area so that person could collect the mail on his route. At this time, Postal officials would not comment on the fate of the postal employee, but tampering with the mail is a federal offense.

Still ahead here tonight, one veteran of the Iraq War isn't letting his wounds stop him from helping other heroes. We'll have his truly inspiring story next.

And then, another American veteran is about to realize a dream that most people would have given up long ago. Those stories and much more still ahead tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: A tragic story tonight from the United States border with Mexico. Two border patrol agents were killed last Sunday when their boat flipped over in the Rio Grande. More than a thousand people gathered in Arlington, Texas to pay final respects to the agent, Travis Otaway and Jeremy Wilson. Their bodies were recovered from the river on Tuesday, two days after the accident.

Now, "Heroes," a salute to the brave men and women who defend this country. And tonight the inspiring story of Robert B.J. Jackson of the Iowa National Guard. Jackson was serving in Iraq last August when he was wounded. And although that ended his military career, it didn't stop Jackson from beginning a brand-new mission. Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's an Iowa National Guard barbecue, and B.J. Jackson is working the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: B.J. Jackson is raising money for an organization called the salute American heroes. Everybody pay a visit to B.J. over here.

WIAN: The hugs and handshakes for a hometown hero come from the heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do great things here. They really support their troops.

WIAN: The crowd knows Jackson's story is as remarkable as his stature. He was 6 foot 4 when his vehicle hit a landmine in Baghdad in august 2003, blasting off of the lower part of his legs. With prosthetic limbs he's now 6 foot 7, that he survived at all is amazing.

B.J. JACKSON, IOWA NATIONAL GUARD: I suffered burns to my arm, my hand, my face, my head, the small of my back and my legs.

For four 1/2 firefight when they got me out, it took me about 45 minutes to get me out of that area to a safe zone, and took 30 minutes to get me out of the burning vehicle.

WIAN: Jackson was sedated for a month and a half and has no memory of the blast. But when he woke up, he knew that with a wife and two young daughters, he had to walk again.

JACKSON: My big thing was getting in the water. Because I was teaching my daughters how to swim before I left.

WIAN: Surprisingly, Jackson says his life hasn't changed all that much.

JACKSON: I live a normal life. I mean, I went skiing 30 days after I got my third set of legs. I could actually walk in. I go swimming all of the time now, at leave once every two weeks.

WIAN: Reaching out and getting support for other veterans is Jackson's mission now.

JACKSON: This organization's doing a lot of great things. It just started, well, our first meeting was in May.

WIAN: Jackson will travel throughout Iowa and the country in the next year as a spokesman for Salute America's Heroes. He wants every veteran to feel the gratitude and support that Iowans have given to him. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: For more information on Salute America's Heroes, it's an organization dedicated to helping wounded veterans. Please visit their Web site, saluteheroes.org.

Tomorrow night, Tim Frisby, the football player at the University of South Carolina will dress for his team's home game against Troy State. That's not an unusual event by any normal standards, but Tim Frisby is 39 years old. Known by his teammates as Pops, the walk-on receiver graduated from high school in 1983. Now Frisbie is a U.S. army veteran who served in Desert Storm and Kosovo and is the father of six children. He's finally getting his chance to play college ball after being cleared to play by the NCAA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM FRISBY, UNIV. OF SOUTH CAROLINA STUDENT ATHLETE: I'm not out here just to stay in shape. I give it 100 percent out there on the practice field and hopefully it pays off on the game field out here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Frisby is a junior academically at the University of South Carolina with 3.8 average in broadcast journalism.

Tonight's thoughts is on heroes. "Gold is good in its place but living, brave, patriotic men are better than gold."

Those words are the words of President Abraham Lincoln.

When we return, a dubious milestone for the oil market. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Stocks closed, very little changed on Wall Street. The Dow rose 8 points. The Nasdaq fell 7. And the S&P gained less than 2 points. And Christine Romans is here with the markets -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, a month of stock market gains just wiped out in one week. Earning's warnings from companies dependent on the consumer sparking worries that high gas and high heating oil prices are gobbling up American's disposable incomes. Bond deals are near their lowest levels since the spring. The bond market is telling us this economy is weaker than the Fed says it is. And crude closed at a new record high today. No relief for prices after the Department of Energy said refiners can borrow oil from the nation's emergency stockpiles.

It's just not enough to loosen a critically tight supply situation. U.S. inventories are still near 29-year lows for oil. And U.S. supplies have been crippled in the Gulf of Mexico by all these hurricanes. Specifically Hurricane Ivan. That storm still lingering, and then here comes this threat from -- to Nigerian supplies. A rebel commander there is now threatening to attack oil wells and pipelines if the army doesn't halt an offensive there. Nigeria is Africa's top crude exporter -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: What are you hearing about oil, Christine? How high could it go?

ROMANS: A lot of people are saying $50 is in the cards. We closed, very close to there again today. A record high. The markets flirted with that before. There are some people who say the fundamentals are so stretched between supply and demand. The demand side of the equation just doesn't let up. Supplies are very stretched with the storms, international situations that $60 is around the corner as well.

PILGRIM: Those are not good numbers. Thank you very much, Christine Romans.

Let's look at some of your thoughts and we'll start with trade with China.

Christine of Tennessee writes, "Your report on China's unfair trading practices should be put on the air again and again and again. Americans do not get it unless it eliminates their job. China is communist."

And Michael from Colorado writes, "how is it that the record industry can go after and fine a 12-year-old girl for downloading songs on the Internet but our government officials who are supposed to enforce copyright laws are doing nothing to stop China from stealing American and European intellectual property rights."

Herman of Louisiana. "International corporations are using the mature U.S. economy as kindling to fuel an expansion in Asian markets. It confused me as why U.S. corporations would outsource U.S. jobs and reduce salaries to levels where workers in the U.S. could not afford the product. This does not appear to be a sustainable system. It isn't."

We love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@CNN.com. Do send us your name and address and each of you whose e-mail is read on the broadcast, receives a free copy of Lou's book "Exporting America."

Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Nearly two-thirds of you said the presidential debate will not influence your vote at all.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us Monday and we begin our special series, "America Works: Coaches." We celebrate the men and women who make a difference in young people's lives every day.

Plus, Hurricane Jeanne could make history in Florida as residents brace for the storm's arrival this weekend.

And the battle for Iraq. We'll be joined by Professor Fouad Ajami, professor of Middle Eastern studies at John Hopkins University.

For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired September 24, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Florida braces for unprecedented fourth hurricane strike in one year. Hurricane Jeanne could smash into the Florida coast as soon as Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like there's a little demon running around here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Senator Kerry delivers his most forceful attack yet on President Bush's strategy in the global war on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush made Saddam Hussein the priority. I would have made Osama bin Laden the priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: President Bush says Senator Kerry is undercutting a key ally of this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The message ought to be to the Iraqi people we support you. The message ought to be Loud and clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: How can we win the global war on terror and radical Islamists? Two leading terrorism experts will join me tonight.

And courting the Latino vote. The presidential candidates battle to win the support of Hispanic voters and avoid the critical issue of illegal immigration.

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, September 24. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs who is on vacation, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening. Tonight, Florida's governor has declared a state of emergency as Hurricane Jeanne charges towards the Florida coast. Hurricane Jeanne will be the fourth hurricane to strike Florida this year, and that has never happened before in one storm season.

Jeanne is currently a Category 2 hurricane, moving at 12 miles an hour. The hurricane is likely to slam into Florida as early as Sunday morning and then move north toward the Carolinas.

Tonight, officials issued a hurricane warning for all of Florida's East Coast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): Once more, residents of Florida's East Coast are preparing for the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started doing repairs, and you think you have plenty of time to fix it. Then, all of a sudden, here comes another one.

PILGRIM: Many know the drill by heart: fill up the car...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm getting gas, filling up.

PILGRIM: ... buy the plywood and cover the windows. Even the governor admits the situation is all too familiar.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I'm proud of how people have responded, and there's a lot of lessons that we've learned in this last six weeks that relate to emergencies, but also relate to everyday life. Other times, I feel like I'm Bill Murray in "Groundhog's Day."

PILGRIM: But Mary Meeser (ph), who just moved to Barefoot Bay from Michigan, says her ill health cannot take another evacuation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has really pushed me. I'm not going to evacuate. If they say come and you have to go, take me into jail then. Go ahead and take me to jail because I can't take another trip.

PILGRIM: Her daughter and son-in-law and their three children moved in with her after Hurricane Frances left them homeless.

Even NASA has not had a chance to fully repair the 20,000-square feet of missing siding ripped off by Hurricane Frances at its vehicle assembly building. The National Hurricane Center says Florida is weathering an unprecedented number of storms.

MAX MAYFIELD, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: If this makes landfall, that will be four, you know, direct hits to Florida, and I think that's the first time that's ever happened in Florida that we know of.

PILGRIM: The pattern could last for several years.

CHRIS LANDSEA, HURRICANE RESEARCHER, NOAA: We've been in a busy period since 1995, and it's part of a long-term cycle where we go back to busy conditions for about 25 to 40 years.

PILGRIM: One resident put it in much simpler terms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like there's a little demon running around here in these weather patterns.

PILGRIM: As residents monitor the weather and make preparation for Hurricane Jeanne, one waitress summed it up for her whole state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going to be rough. It's going to be rough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Officials in six counties in eastern Florida have already issued voluntary evacuation orders for coastal communities and those orders effect more than half a million people.

John Zarrella in West Palm Beach has our report -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, well, you know, pick the word -- anxiety, frustration, maddening. You know, just when Floridians thought the level of anxiety would start to go down, it ratchets right back up again. Four storms potentially in a matter of six weeks.

Here we are in West Palm Beach. They're going through the ritual again. This gas station ran out of gasoline, of fuel about three hours ago, unleaded regular. They still -- or any of the unleaded gas. They still have some diesel fuel left, and they're pumping it into the trucks that are coming in here.

Anywhere that you find gasoline is open, the lines are 20, 30 cars deep. People still pulling in here to this gas station looking for fuel. They're all out. They hope to get delivery a little bit later.

You look at the signs up here behind me in this strip mall past us. The signs from Hurricane Frances damaged, still blown down here. This is what you see all over the East Coast of Florida, the damage from Frances.

About 30 miles to the north in Palm City where we were three or four hours ago, the litter is still lining the streets. There are downed tree limbs in stacks and piles, debris that's just simply not going to get picked up before this storm potentially makes landfall somewhere along the Florida East Coast.

One woman, Toby Howell (ph), just didn't want to wait any longer, concerned that that debris could go airborne. She decided to go ahead and burn some of it today to just get it out of the way. She's been burning it all morning and had a little bit left to go this afternoon when we were there.

Another man, Paul Pelletier (ph), who had taken his shutters down -- lots of people did after Frances -- took his wood down. He was putting it back up again today, going through that ritual again, the same thing that hundreds of thousands of Floridians have done over and over again this hurricane season. And Paul Pelletier (ph), like everybody else, just saying, geez, when is it going to end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been dodging bullets forever, you know. We've seen them come our way, and then -- and, you know, you can only dodge them for so long and -- but, I mean, one after the other, that's hard to explain. I mean, what are the odds, you know? I think playing the lottery is in order this time with this kind of luck.

ZARRELLA: Pelletier had told us that he hopes in the next few months that after this all settles down and we get out of hurricane season, which ends November 30, that he'll calm down a little bit, but, right now, he was telling us that Flagstaff, Arizona, looks like a good place to move to.

As he put it, anywhere but here, and that's the sentiment of lots of Floridians this these days who have never -- and nobody has -- ever gone through here in Florida what we are about to go through, four storms and potentially another major hurricane coming ashore in the next couple of days -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

John Zarrella.

And we will have more on the direction and strength of Hurricane Jeanne later in the show. The director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, will join us with the very latest.

Now Hurricane Jeanne has already inflicted terrible damage in Haiti. The hurricane killed more than 1,000 people, many more are missing, and 300,000 people have lose their homes.

Karl Penhaul reports from Haiti.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eight convoys are slowly arriving by road, but Haitian officials say hundreds and thousands need help. The scale of the disaster dwarfs the relief effort. By the time many of these people make it through the gates, they've been nearly crushed by hundreds behind them.

(on camera): Many of the people here say they've been waiting since early morning and that they've not eaten since the weekend. That makes for an explosive mix -- hunger and desperation.

(voice-over): Denise Woze (ph) is one of the lucky ones. She says she and her three children have scarcely eaten since Tropical Storm Jeanne demolished their home.

"The house was full of mud and water. We only a piece of bread and avocado to eat. We don't even have any clothes," she says.

It's been a battle to get the hand out of rice, peas, oil and wheat. Now she must struggle home with enough supplies to help her family survive for a few more days.

It's chaos too across at the cemetery. The grave diggers say they haven't been paid for burying hundreds of storm victims. Human remains are unceremoniously dumped in body bags in the same pit with animal carcasses.

The main fight now for international relief organizations is to care for the living, and, for the desperate crowds outside of the gates, it's a fight with no holds barred, survival of the fittest.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Gonaives, Haiti.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Turning to the presidential election in this country, Senator John Kerry today made the war on terror the defining issue of his campaign. Senator Kerry delivered his strongest criticism of President Bush's strategy so far. Senator Kerry also outlined a seven-point plan to defeat global terrorism.

Bob Franken has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The afternoon rally at the University of Pennsylvania was really a send- off for John Kerry, as he headed for debate preparations with a reminder of a debate past.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN, JR. (R), DELAWARE: I know this man, and I know George Bush, and this guy ain't no George Bush, thank God!

FRANKEN: The man who is doing his dead-level best to beat George Bush had added an event at nearby Temple University, part of a new strategy of aggressively criticizing the Bush record on Iraq and terrorism. It included the fundamental message that the war in Iraq had undermined the war on terror.

KERRY: George Bush made Saddam Hussein the priority. I would have made Osama bin Laden the priority.

FRANKEN: The Bush campaign had its usual quick response, saying, "John Kerry called Saddam Hussein a terrorist before, but now he's taking the opposite position."

Kerry presented a seven-point plan, promising to make all the changes recommended by the 9/11 commission and, in effect, to do everything that Bush has done in the war on terror better.

KERRY: We are confronting an enemy and an ideology that must be destroyed. We are in a war. We are in a war that must be won.

FRANKEN (on camera): Kerry is still nursing a cold, but he's about to cut his speeches, at least his public ones, as he uses his voice for intense debate preparations with a surrogate for President Bush. The real thing happens in less than a week. Bob Franken, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: President Bush today accused Senator Kerry of undercutting the Iraqi prime minister. The president said Senator Kerry cannot lead this country if he questions the credibility of a key U.S. ally.

Elaine Quijano is traveling with president and now joins us from Racine, Wisconsin -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kitty.

Campaigning here in Wisconsin, President Bush hit back hard against those comments by Senator John Kerry regarding the interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi.

Now you'll recall that Senator Kerry yesterday said both the prime minister as well as President Bush were painting too rosy a picture of the situation on the ground in Iraq. The senator contending that the reality showed a much more unstable, much more violent environment than the administration was showing.

But the Bush administration today fighting back. President Bush here today in Racine, Wisconsin, just a short time ago and earlier at a stop in Janesville, Wisconsin, shot back, the president saying that the senator was questioning Prime Minister Allawi's credibility and suggested that demonstrated a lack of statesmanship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: You can't lead this country if your ally in Iraq feels like you question his credibility. The message ought to be the Iraqi people we support you. The message ought to be loud and clear. We're staying with you if you do the hard work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now the Kerry camp maintains that the senator was not criticizing the prime minister. They say, though, that this administration has continued not to be forthcoming on the realities in Iraq, and they say they will point out anytime they feel the president is not being forthcoming.

Meantime here in Wisconsin, an important state for the president, he talked about domestic issues as well, including the economy, education, health care. The president here in Wisconsin pushing hard. The Bush campaign feeling optimistic about its chances here.

This is a state that the president lost narrowly in 2000 by just 5,700 votes, but the campaign feels he has made significant inroads and could tip the balance of votes his way come November -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Elaine Quijano.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today made a remarkable statement about the war in Iraq. After meeting with the Iraqi prime minister in Washington, Rumsfeld said the United States could start withdrawing troops from Iraq before there is peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Any implication that that place has to be peaceful and perfect before we can reduce coalition and U.S. forces, I think, would obviously be wrong because it's never been peaceful and perfect, and it isn't likely to be. It's a tough part of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: In Iraq today, another day of violence. American troops fought insurgents in the town of Ramadi west of Baghdad. At least seven people were wounded.

In Fallujah, American aircraft and artillery bombarded suspected insurgent positions. There are no reports of any casualties.

And there is still no word tonight about the fate of British hostage Ken Bigly, but officials believe he is still alive. Bigly's kidnappers beheaded two Americans earlier this week.

Coming up, more on Iraq, the global war on terror and radical Islamists. The presidential candidates both say they can win the war terror, but who is right? Two leading terrorism experts will join me.

Wal-Mart launches a charm offensive to fight back against some of its strongest critics. We'll have a report.

And not again! People in Florida prepare for yet another hurricane, and the director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, will join me with the very latest on Jeanne's path.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Both presidential candidates agree that the global war on terror is the most urgent national security issue facing this country, but the candidates have presented very different strategies to win the war against radical Islamist terrorists, and joining me now are two leading terrorism experts.

Stephen Flynn is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and he is the author of "America the Vulnerable," and Erick Stakelbeck is a senior writer at The Investigative Project, which is a counterterrorism research institute in Washington.

And, gentlemen, thank you for being with us.

STEPHEN FLYNN, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good to be here.

ERICK STAKELBECK, THE INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT: Good to be here. PILGRIM: You know, I'd like to start with something Kerry said today, and he outlined a plan, and let's start with a comment that he said, and we'll get your reaction to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The president's misjudgment, miscalculation and mismanagement of the war in Iraq all make the war on terror harder to win. Iraq is now what it was not before the war, a haven for terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Erick, let's go to you first. What's your assessment of that?

STAKELBECK: Well, I think that, you know, Iraq is definitely right now the epicenter for the war on terror. There's not a doubt about it. In Fallujah alone, there's at least 1,000 foreign fighters in Fallujah, and Iraq is pretty much the base for a lot of al Qaeda activity right now.

But, you know, I would say that it's not just in Iraq that we have this terrorist threat. It's still around the globe. Iraq has definitely, in terms of the terrorist threat, gotten worse since the U.S. invaded, but, you know, the threat remains the same around the globe. It's not just in Iraq, and we have to do a better job around the world, not only in Iraq.

PILGRIM: Steve, your reaction, too.

FLYNN: Well, my reaction is in part, yes, it did certainly distract the bulk of the resources and the attention away from the problems that I'm very concerned with, which is we're such a soft target as a society, which is part of the attraction of engaging in catastrophic terrorism.

If you strike here, you're going to get a big bang for your buck, and there's no question that when it comes to the resources -- just take port security alone, as Senator Kerry mentioned today. We are spending in three years just the same amount of money, the $500 million that we spend every day on the war in Iraq.

So, when it comes to making investments about protecting things that are most valuable and vulnerable inside the United States and that are also part of the global community, yes, the war in Iraq has consumed virtually all of the attention of the senior players and all the resources. So that part of the war is not going as well as it needs to go.

PILGRIM: Let's turn to something that President Bush said in his speech before the United Nations, a plan to fight terror, strengthening our intelligence, our military, shutting down terrorist financing, and let's listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: We can expect terrorist attacks to escalate as Afghanistan and Iraq approach national elections. The work ahead is demanding, but these difficulties will not shake our conviction that the future of Afghanistan and Iraq is a future of liberty. The proper response to difficulty is not to retreat. It is to prevail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: All right. And, in essence, he's saying it's a long- term plan and that you have to actually go into Iraq and Afghanistan to go to the heart of this matter -- Eric.

STAKELBECK: Yes, you know, it's something that -- look, we've been in Iraq for a year and a half. We have to see this through. We can't cut and run. Today, it was announced actually that we've just put together a task force of Special-Operations agents and CIA operatives to track down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who arguably is the most wanted terrorist in the world right now, after Osama bin Laden, and he's the guy who's responsible for most of the violence that's going on in Iraq right now. So we have to take it to the terrorists without a doubt.

I think in Fallujah and I think in dealing with Muqtada al Sadr in Najaf, we've actually made a crucial mistake in not being more aggressive and in letting up. In Fallujah, for instance, back in April, we were ready to go in with the all-out assault in Fallujah. We backed off at the last second. So I think we have to be aggressive and really take it to the people like Zarqawi and al Sadr. Negotiations don't work with these kinds of people.

PILGRIM: We still don't have Osama bin Laden. We're now targeting Zarqawi. Why not pursue this?

FLYNN: Well, I think part of my concern is that the best defense is a good offense and I'm not anti-offense. If we know where to go and what to strike, want to do it.

But what we've seen really in the last three years, there is a limit to our military capabilities to track down these folks. There's also a limit to our intelligence. It will take us probably 10 or 15 years to get to the point where we'll have good tactical intelligence.

And given that this adversary is not cooperating, is not just staying in Iraq, in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but is in Madrid, they're in Canada, and, as the secretary of Homeland Security told us on the 1st of August, they're here as well, we need to basically come back with a fallback plan, which is, if your military's not going to work and your intelligence is not going to be up to speed, you better look at what's valuable and vulnerable and begin to make investments with safeguards.

My concern is all the eggs are in the offense basket. I want us to do well in the offense, but, if you can't do well, you better acknowledge when you're in a war to have a fallback position.

PILGRIM: Erick, do you agree with this? We do not have the luxury of an either-or situation, do we?

STAKELBECK: Well, no, we don't, but I think we have to continue to take the fight to the terrorists without a doubt. I mean, we can't wait for them to strike us. We have to be offensive.

This is -- you know, this is a whole different war than what we're used to, the war on terror. We have to take it to them. We can't sit back and wait for another 9/11 to happen. I agree that we do need to continue to improve our intelligence capabilities and do a better job in terms of that here at home.

But I think also in this war, with the dynamics of this war, we have to be offensive. It's not the kind of war where you can sit back and be defensive. We just don't have that luxury.

PILGRIM: All right.

FLYNN: Well, I really think you've got to do both. There's strength in not only being able to deliver a punch but being able to take one...

STAKELBECK: Absolutely.

FLYNN: ... and resilience has been a big part. If you look at the British experience and the Israeli experience, the resilience of being able to withstand terror attacks.

The reality is we're not going to win the war on terror anytime soon. There will be attacks and being prepared to deal with this could be the difference between hundreds of lost or tens or thousands.

So you can't lose sight of that goal. As a war, you need a defense as well as an offense. It's not either-or.

PILGRIM: All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much for your comments tonight and your considerable expertise.

Erick Stakelbeck and Steve Flynn.

Thank you.

Still to come tonight, Florida braces for another unthinkable storm. A powerful storm heading for the already hurricane-battered state, and we'll have the latest on where and when Hurricane Jeanne will hit that state. National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield will join us.

And then the presidential candidates are paying attention to Latino voters more in this election than in any other, and we'll have a special report on the Latino voter drive next.

And then, Wal-Mart fights back, and we'll tell you how the retailer is trying to make nice with thousands of Californians unhappy with its expansion.

Those stories and much more still ahead here tonight. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: The presidential election is just more than five weeks away, and a key voting block is expected to be Latino voters. Now, as we have reported all this week, the presidential candidates are saying little about their position on a national immigration policy, but that is not stopping them from campaigning hard for the Latino vote.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: Thank you all for coming. Bienveniedos. Ala casablanca. Thanks for coming.

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're not exactly bilingual.

KERRY: I'm asking you for your help. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I need your vote.

SYLVESTER: But that's not stopping both candidates from sharing their Spanish with Latino audiences. According to the Census Bureau, Latinos are now the largest minority in the United States. But, traditionally, Latinos have not turned out to vote.

In 2000, Hispanics were 11 percent of the U.S. population 18 and over, but represented only 5 percent of the votes cast. Hispanic groups are trying to change that with a campaign to register new voters, and they hope to use their new clout to push their legislative agenda.

ANGELA KELLEY, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION REFORM: Look, it's no secret that the newcomer vote is an important vote, and both candidates are doing somersaults to speak in Spanish.

SYLVESTER: This week, a coalition met in Washington to lobby lawmakers to pass bills that would allow illegal aliens to attend state colleges, establish a guest worker program for agricultural workers and would pave the way for illegal workers to earn legal status.

But critics say such bills hurt low-income people, including a disproportionate number of Latinos who are U.S. citizens or green card holders.

ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERS USA: When large numbers of people join the labor force, wages are suppressed. The people in the United States legally who are at the lower end of the economic scale are going to be hurt by that because job competition will increase, wages will go down.

SYLVESTER: Both Democrats and Republicans have been treading lightly, trying to win new Latino votes without alienating U.S. citizens who oppose extending rights to illegal aliens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: There's also momentum in Congress to make it harder for illegal aliens to stay in the United States. A bill introduced by the House Republican leadership today would set national standards for driver's licenses and would give local and state law enforcement more authority to round up illegal aliens -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much.

Now the hurricane devastation in Florida is expected to greatly impact the voting there. Let's turn to the very latest on the campaign, and three of the country's leading journalists join us. And from Washington, we have Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent for "TIME" magazine; Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times"; and here in New York is Jim Ellis, the chief of correspondents for "BusinessWeek".

And thank you all for being here.

First of all, we're looking at Florida, which I guess has not had its political season yet. Let's just start with that, and let's start with you, Karen.

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well,, of course, everyone knows that Florida is going to be -- you know, it's clearly one of the big prizes this year and it's going to be the sight of next week's first presidential debate, but the problem is for pollsters right now, for political professionals, nobody basically has a clue what's going on down there because of the hurricanes. It's impossible to get a reliable reading on it. So everybody's working it very hard, but nobody really knows how things are really going down there.

PILGRIM: Yes, I don't think their mind is quite on it quite yet. Let's take a look at some of the polls. The CBS poll let's start with, and it has Bush at 49 percent, Kerry at 41. So Bush has an 8- point lead.

Ron, what do you make of that?

RON BROWNSTEIN, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, there are a whole series of polls out in the last 24 hours or so that have put the race somewhere, 6, 7, 8, Karen, sitting here next to me, "TIME" magazine has a poll coming out shortly with a 6-point lead. There's a Marist poll also with a 6-point lead among likely voters.

When you look at what's going on in all of the various states, it does seem that President Bush is clearly ahead at this point. Senator Kerry and their staff feel that they have gained some ground -- regained some of the ground they lost in the last couple of weeks primarily because of growing doubts in the public which is evident in these polls about Iraq.

But it's clear that I think heading into this debate, like Al Gore in 2000, President Bush will be ahead. PILGRIM: All right. Jim, we saw the "TIME" magazine poll. We can put that up, and Bush at 48, Kerry at 42, Nader at 5. And since we last spoke, we have the Nader factor included in Florida. Bush has cut his lead a little bit in this "TIME" magazine poll. He was at 11 percent.

JIM ELLIS, "BUSINESSWEEK": Yes. I still think it's definitely his election to lose right now. I think that what happened is that a lot of people have -- they resonated on the economy for a long time. But now all of a sudden, the Iraq situation has sort of blasted back into the headlines.

It's something that the Democrats have to find a way to separate Iraq from terrorism because there's absolutely no way that they can win on the war on terrorism. The public really feels that the president is doing a very good job there.

So instead they have to sort of push the judgment issue about Iraq. The judgment, was it worth the cost, and is -- at the end of the day, is it really worthwhile for America to go into debt for years to come, and basically to pay for this in blood in American lives to basically do this, to free Iraq as opposed to keep the world free of terrorism.

BROWNSTEIN: Kitty, can I just add something there?

PILGRIM: Sure, go ahead.

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, and that really is -- what Jim is saying, is the important development in this week is that in his speech at New York University last Monday, John Kerry more I think unequivocally and aggressively than ever before, may try to make the case that Iraq should be seen as separate from the war on terror.

In fact, he argued again in his speech today, as he did last Monday, that he argued it is -- it detracted and distracted us in the war on terror.

Now whether is Kerry is credible as a messenger, as an alternative, given all of the doubts that Republicans have been able to raise about him is another question. But I think he has clearly moved in that direction and is probably making the sharpest, strongest argument that a Democrat can make against President Bush on this issue. Because much of the success the president had this summer has been precisely in linking Iraq to the war on terror.

TUMULTY: Oh, and by the way, one more thing is that one of the reasons he absolutely has to break that link is women voters. John Kerry has lost a lot of ground since the Republican Convention with women voters, and it's primarily over terrorism as opposed to those traditional kitchen table issues that normally drive so-called soccer moms.

PILGRIM: I want to ask what your reaction is to the back and forth today. The comments about Bush and Iraqi interim Prime Minister Allawi, the White House rebuttal rebuttal. It got a little bit -- well, a little bit tense. What do you think, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, I think what we're seeing is in part this whole new team that is -- has joined the Kerry campaign. What we're seeing is a lot more aggressiveness out of the Kerry campaign and they're continuing to drive this message. They have lost the timidity that a lot of Democrats were criticizing them for. And of course the Bush campaign is ready for it and they're going to hit back just as hard.

PILGRIM: Well, Ron, do you think that the Democrats were intentionally denouncing the Allawi message, it was that aggressive?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. In fact in my story today in "The L.A. Times" one of the senior Kerry advisers specifically compared Allawi to a puppet, which is part of what the White House was reacting to in that quote.

Look, this is -- what's going on here is this, the president is holding up Allawi in effect as an expert witness for his assessment of how things are going in Iraq. Three separate times in his press conference yesterday, he said in effect, the president, if you don't believe me about how things are going, ask the guy standing next to me, he's on the ground.

And of course in his speech and had in his press appearances this week, Allawi has echoed the president's arguments on points large and small about Iraq. Now what the Democrats are saying is that he is simply not a credible witness on this, both because the U.S. played a role in selecting him and also because he has his own reasons to put the best possible face on things; as John Kerry said yesterday.

It does put put Kerry on an uncomfortable position of tangling with the leader of ostensibly a friendly foreign country in the middle of a presidential campaign. And the White House and Senate Republicans were all over him on this today.

In the end, I think Allawi's impact on the race will be much more about what he does in Iraq than what he says over here. Because I do think that over time the trend of events is probably going to matter more in how people perceive this than anything -- any arguments that came out this week.

PILGRIM: You could certainly argue this, the flip side, that Allawi is on the ground, he does know the conditions and it should be irrelevant to him who wins because the United States is backing the Iraqi government. It shouldn't matter on which candidate -- Jim.

ELLIS: Yes, that would -- in end the best of all possible worlds, that's true. But I think that he's smart enough to understand that he's probably going to get a better hearing from Mr. Bush than he would from another regime here.

And so, therefore, he's sort of dancing with guy who brought him to the dance. And so he's saying what's necessary. I think it's very difficult, though, for a lot of people to sort of put a lot of credence in that -- or put as much credence in it if we didn't see this sort of crazy insurgency that's going on right now. The escalation of violence there, the sort of resumption of more kidnappings. Another six today. I mean, it's very difficult to imagine that this place is stable enough, particularly with both the U.N. and even Mr. Rumsfeld now saying that there is a possibility that we won't even be able to have complete elections there.

PILGRIM: Karen, we...

TUMULTY: And not to mention that John Kerry can bring in as his expert witness the CIA, because certainly what Allawi's picture of events, and Iraq is very much at odds with the CIA's own National Intelligence Estimate, which saw the situation in Iraq looking -- the prognosis being actually being worse as recently as July.

BROWNSTEIN: One thing that is clear in the last 24 hours, though, Kitty, is that a President Kerry-Prime Minister Allawi relationship would be a lot more complicated than it was at the beginning of the week.

PILGRIM: Yes, I think that's a fair assessment. We have to end it on that one, OK, Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein and Jim Ellis, thanks very much.

All right. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. "How much will the presidential debates influence your vote?" And we would like to know, "very much," "somewhat" or "not at all." Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou, and we'll share the results later on in the broadcast.

We have a bit more now on the newest dangerous storm charging towards Florida, Hurricane Jeanne. It's the fourth major storm this hurricane season. It's expected to make landfall within the next 48 hours and joining me now with the very latest on where, when Hurricane Jeanne will hit is the director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield.

Max, I see you way too much. Where do we stand here?

MAX MAYFIELD, NATIONAL HURRICANE: Well, Kitty, it's a strong Category 2 hurricane right now. We think that it will likely strengthen some. It could very well be a Category 3 hurricane before it gets to Florida. I think by Saturday afternoon, it will be over the northwesternmost Bahamas.

The tropical storm force winds are likely to be impacting the southeast Florida coast by then, and the hurricane force winds will likely reach the coast by tomorrow night.

PILGRIM: The last one moved very slowly, caused a lot of damage in terms of flooding. What are we likely to see here?

MAYFIELD: We're going to see damage from this one too, I'm afraid, Kitty. And we're going to have to talk about the hazard, the storm surge, the winds and the rainfall. We think that this will indeed turn more toward the north. Whether it does that right along the Florida east coast or over the peninsula itself, we can't be sure, but coastal hurricane warning goes up from Florida City all the way up to St. Augustine right now.

PILGRIM: Max, I'm going to ask you a question that's being asked at every dinner table in this country right about now. Why so many?

MAYFIELD: Kitty, I can't tell you exactly why. We've had years with a lot of hurricanes. In fact, 1985, we had six landfalling hurricanes in the United States, plus two tropical storms. But those are pretty well spread out from the Gulf and the Atlantic coast.

This year, this will be the fourth hurricane to hit Florida. So why that's happening, I don't think anybody can tell you.

PILGRIM: There's nothing unusual in the conditions this year, anything that you can pinpoint?

MAYFIELD: It's just a matter of stirring currents or in place to stir these hurricanes in the state when the systems come near the southeastern United States.

PILGRIM: I hate to ask you this, but should we be watching out for anything else coming up?

MAYFIELD: Well, we don't have to worry about Karl, don't have to worry about Lisa, but this is still September and the hurricane season goes through November. So we're not done yet.

PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Max Mayfield.

MAYFIELD: Thank you.

PILGRIM: Still ahead, the nation's largest retailer fights to repair its image in California. And we'll look at how that may affect California's economy.

Plus, one man working for the U.S. Post Office in Texas prompts a federal investigation.

And the remarkable story of a soldier wounded in Iraq who's now taking on a whole new mission.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Tonight, Wal-Mart is fighting back in California. The world's largest retailer is trying to convince Californians that dozens of new super centers will be good for the economy, but critics say that's California dreaming. Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A half-built Wal- Mart super center in Bakersfield, California: construction blocked by a lawsuit claiming Wal-Mart's wipe-out local businesses. California's now the capital of Wal-Mart backlash that believes that Wal-Mart treats its workers badly and drives down American wages. Which is why Wal-Mart this week launched a charm offensive, full-page newspaper ads up and down California. CYNTHIA LIN, WAL-MART SPOKESWOMAN: So often our critics claim that Wal-Mart jobs are minimum wage jobs with no benefits and that's absolutely false. In California, our average wage is $10.37 per hour. We pay competitive wages and we offer benefits to both full-time and part-time workers.

VILES: In ads in 15 California papers, Wal-Mart argues it offers competitive wages, comprehensive benefits, tremendous career opportunities, and that its planned super centers would save Southern Californian consumers $3.7 billion a year. That's $589 per household. Wal-Mart even broke from its usual practice and invited us into a Los Angeles store to interview employees and shoppers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean I wanted to shop here more than work here, but I got hired here. So why not do both?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tell you, before I started at Wal-Mart, I had no benefits. But it's a question of time of being at Wal-Mart, I have medical, I have dental, we have 401(k), profit sharing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love Wal-Mart. The first thing they say is welcome to Wal-Mart and that just puts a smile on my face and makes me spend all my money.

VILES: Critics who argue that Wal-Mart destroys as many jobs as it creates and drives down wages, are skeptical of the entire campaign.

KEN JACOBS, UC BERKELEY: Well, I think the ads are highly misleading and in some cases simply not true. The Wal-Mart says that their wages are competitive, or equal with other people in the industry. In fact they're 30 percent less than other large retailers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: The stakes here go well beyond Wal-Mart's image in California. Remember, the company wants to open 40 of these super center stores. If they do that, that's a big threat to the grocery industry here, but it's very important for Wal-Mart to do it. Their story on Wall Street is a growth story, Kitty. You can't grow if you are not opening new stores.

PILGRIM: Peter, what is Wal-Mart's presence in California right now?

VILES: They have a very large presence here already. 150 stores, 60,000 employees in California. They're already the second largest private sector employer in the state of California.

PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much. Pete Viles.

Tonight, a federal investigation is under way in Texas into claims that a man working for the U.S. Postal Service paid an illegal alien to do his job. The contracted worker on the western part of Hidalgo County allegedly gave an illegal alien the keys to several mailboxes in the area so that person could collect the mail on his route. At this time, Postal officials would not comment on the fate of the postal employee, but tampering with the mail is a federal offense.

Still ahead here tonight, one veteran of the Iraq War isn't letting his wounds stop him from helping other heroes. We'll have his truly inspiring story next.

And then, another American veteran is about to realize a dream that most people would have given up long ago. Those stories and much more still ahead tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: A tragic story tonight from the United States border with Mexico. Two border patrol agents were killed last Sunday when their boat flipped over in the Rio Grande. More than a thousand people gathered in Arlington, Texas to pay final respects to the agent, Travis Otaway and Jeremy Wilson. Their bodies were recovered from the river on Tuesday, two days after the accident.

Now, "Heroes," a salute to the brave men and women who defend this country. And tonight the inspiring story of Robert B.J. Jackson of the Iowa National Guard. Jackson was serving in Iraq last August when he was wounded. And although that ended his military career, it didn't stop Jackson from beginning a brand-new mission. Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's an Iowa National Guard barbecue, and B.J. Jackson is working the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: B.J. Jackson is raising money for an organization called the salute American heroes. Everybody pay a visit to B.J. over here.

WIAN: The hugs and handshakes for a hometown hero come from the heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do great things here. They really support their troops.

WIAN: The crowd knows Jackson's story is as remarkable as his stature. He was 6 foot 4 when his vehicle hit a landmine in Baghdad in august 2003, blasting off of the lower part of his legs. With prosthetic limbs he's now 6 foot 7, that he survived at all is amazing.

B.J. JACKSON, IOWA NATIONAL GUARD: I suffered burns to my arm, my hand, my face, my head, the small of my back and my legs.

For four 1/2 firefight when they got me out, it took me about 45 minutes to get me out of that area to a safe zone, and took 30 minutes to get me out of the burning vehicle.

WIAN: Jackson was sedated for a month and a half and has no memory of the blast. But when he woke up, he knew that with a wife and two young daughters, he had to walk again.

JACKSON: My big thing was getting in the water. Because I was teaching my daughters how to swim before I left.

WIAN: Surprisingly, Jackson says his life hasn't changed all that much.

JACKSON: I live a normal life. I mean, I went skiing 30 days after I got my third set of legs. I could actually walk in. I go swimming all of the time now, at leave once every two weeks.

WIAN: Reaching out and getting support for other veterans is Jackson's mission now.

JACKSON: This organization's doing a lot of great things. It just started, well, our first meeting was in May.

WIAN: Jackson will travel throughout Iowa and the country in the next year as a spokesman for Salute America's Heroes. He wants every veteran to feel the gratitude and support that Iowans have given to him. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: For more information on Salute America's Heroes, it's an organization dedicated to helping wounded veterans. Please visit their Web site, saluteheroes.org.

Tomorrow night, Tim Frisby, the football player at the University of South Carolina will dress for his team's home game against Troy State. That's not an unusual event by any normal standards, but Tim Frisby is 39 years old. Known by his teammates as Pops, the walk-on receiver graduated from high school in 1983. Now Frisbie is a U.S. army veteran who served in Desert Storm and Kosovo and is the father of six children. He's finally getting his chance to play college ball after being cleared to play by the NCAA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM FRISBY, UNIV. OF SOUTH CAROLINA STUDENT ATHLETE: I'm not out here just to stay in shape. I give it 100 percent out there on the practice field and hopefully it pays off on the game field out here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PILGRIM: Frisby is a junior academically at the University of South Carolina with 3.8 average in broadcast journalism.

Tonight's thoughts is on heroes. "Gold is good in its place but living, brave, patriotic men are better than gold."

Those words are the words of President Abraham Lincoln.

When we return, a dubious milestone for the oil market. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Stocks closed, very little changed on Wall Street. The Dow rose 8 points. The Nasdaq fell 7. And the S&P gained less than 2 points. And Christine Romans is here with the markets -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, a month of stock market gains just wiped out in one week. Earning's warnings from companies dependent on the consumer sparking worries that high gas and high heating oil prices are gobbling up American's disposable incomes. Bond deals are near their lowest levels since the spring. The bond market is telling us this economy is weaker than the Fed says it is. And crude closed at a new record high today. No relief for prices after the Department of Energy said refiners can borrow oil from the nation's emergency stockpiles.

It's just not enough to loosen a critically tight supply situation. U.S. inventories are still near 29-year lows for oil. And U.S. supplies have been crippled in the Gulf of Mexico by all these hurricanes. Specifically Hurricane Ivan. That storm still lingering, and then here comes this threat from -- to Nigerian supplies. A rebel commander there is now threatening to attack oil wells and pipelines if the army doesn't halt an offensive there. Nigeria is Africa's top crude exporter -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: What are you hearing about oil, Christine? How high could it go?

ROMANS: A lot of people are saying $50 is in the cards. We closed, very close to there again today. A record high. The markets flirted with that before. There are some people who say the fundamentals are so stretched between supply and demand. The demand side of the equation just doesn't let up. Supplies are very stretched with the storms, international situations that $60 is around the corner as well.

PILGRIM: Those are not good numbers. Thank you very much, Christine Romans.

Let's look at some of your thoughts and we'll start with trade with China.

Christine of Tennessee writes, "Your report on China's unfair trading practices should be put on the air again and again and again. Americans do not get it unless it eliminates their job. China is communist."

And Michael from Colorado writes, "how is it that the record industry can go after and fine a 12-year-old girl for downloading songs on the Internet but our government officials who are supposed to enforce copyright laws are doing nothing to stop China from stealing American and European intellectual property rights."

Herman of Louisiana. "International corporations are using the mature U.S. economy as kindling to fuel an expansion in Asian markets. It confused me as why U.S. corporations would outsource U.S. jobs and reduce salaries to levels where workers in the U.S. could not afford the product. This does not appear to be a sustainable system. It isn't."

We love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@CNN.com. Do send us your name and address and each of you whose e-mail is read on the broadcast, receives a free copy of Lou's book "Exporting America."

Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Nearly two-thirds of you said the presidential debate will not influence your vote at all.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us Monday and we begin our special series, "America Works: Coaches." We celebrate the men and women who make a difference in young people's lives every day.

Plus, Hurricane Jeanne could make history in Florida as residents brace for the storm's arrival this weekend.

And the battle for Iraq. We'll be joined by Professor Fouad Ajami, professor of Middle Eastern studies at John Hopkins University.

For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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