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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush, Kerry Meet for Second Debate; Jobs Growth Weaker Than Expected
Aired October 08, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, just three hours from now, President Bush and Senator Kerry meet in the second presidential presentation. We'll have a real debate tonight between Republican National Committee Chairman Ed Gillespie and Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe. No rules here, no tears.
Only 96,000 jobs created last month, far fewer than had been expected. We'll show you how both campaigns are looking for political advantage in the jobs numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN K. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president is now officially the first president in 72 years to lose jobs on his watch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON EVANS, SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: We've gained two million jobs since President Bush took office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: In our special report tonight, Democracy at Risk, we continue our reporting on the integrity of our national voting system. Tonight, we focus on Ohio. Is Ohio the new Florida? My guest is Ohio's secretary of state, Kenneth Blackwell.
And Congressman John Dingell joins me tonight. He says the Bush administration is out of touch on the issue of outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, October 8. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
The last employment report before the election today shows the economy creating only 96,000 jobs in September. That's far fewer than had been expected. The unemployment rate held steady at 5.4 percent. Job creation, of course, is one of the most critical issues in this presidential campaign.
The second presidential presentations are now just under three hours away. Both campaigns have been trying to spin these job numbers to their advantage. How are they doing?
Kitty Pilgrim has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a game called Spin the Numbers, and the stakes are high. As the election nears, historical comparisons are picked for maximum effect.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), MISSOURI: It's the worst record since Herbert Hoover.
ELAINE CHAO, SECRETARY OF LABOR: Our unemployment rate is 5.4 percent. This is lower than the average unemployment rate in the decade of the 1970s, 1980s and the 1990s.
KERRY: The president is now officially the first president in 72 years to lose jobs on his watch.
PILGRIM: A new Bush-Cheney ad was launched talking about job creation.
ANNOUNCER: Nearly two million new jobs in just over a year.
PILGRIM: That is true, but the Kerry campaign points out, despite those job gains in the last year, the country is still down about a million jobs since the president took office. Ninety-six thousand jobs were created in September. But, again, Kerry's economic advisers repeatedly say it takes up to 150,000 new jobs a month just to keep up with population growth.
Now dueling sound bites quibbling over the interpretation of the numbers.
EVANS: We've got more Americans working today than we've ever had working in the history of our country.
PILGRIM: The quality of jobs and the outlook for the future, two entirely different takes.
SEN. ROBERT BENNETT (R), UTAH: The recovery has traction. It's going forward. The jobs are coming.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The new jobs that are being created, a huge percentage of them are minimum wage jobs, fast-food restaurants, janitorial jobs, part-time jobs, low-wage jobs, jobs with no benefits.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Manufacturing, again, lost jobs, and so did the retail industry and information technology. Now, no matter how the candidates talk about it, it's not a theoretical discussion. Voters will take all this very personally and interpret the numbers with their own spin on how this plays out in their lives -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, senior Bush administration officials also highlighted some preliminary job estimates that have not been confirmed by the Labor Department. Government experts now say it appears the economy added about 236,000 more jobs than previously thought in the year to March. But even with that revision, the economy has still lost 585,000 jobs since President Bush took office.
Jobs not the only issue, of course, likely to be discussed in tonight's presidential presentations in St. Louis. President Bush and Senator Kerry are also likely to face tough questions about Iraq and the global war on terror.
John King is covering the Bush-Cheney campaign. Candy Crowley is covering the Kerry-Edwards campaign. Both, of course, tonight in St. Louis.
We begin with John King -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, hard it overstate the importance of tonight's debate for the president. His performance in last week's debate was widely criticized, not only his facial expressions, but some of his answers and his responses as well. Mr. Bush enters, of course, trying to take away the momentum Senator Kerry did gain out of that last debate.
He took a tour of the debate hall tonight. This is a town hall- style setting. The president is very comfortable in that setting. Aides say he is relaxed, joking during that walk-through of the hall about his controversy of his angry and other facial expressions last week.
Mr. Bush knows tonight that one of the topics will undoubtedly be the economy, and he will make the case that there was a recession early in his terms, then the September 11 attacks, and, in his view, the trend line now is heading dramatically in the right direction. Mr. Bush then will then pivot to make the case that, in his view, Senator Kerry would raise taxes and hurt the economy.
More importantly, aides say it is for the president to do a far better job in this debate than he did in the last one explaining his policy in Iraq. Aides say he must explain why he went to war in the first place, perhaps why he objected some recommendations to send in more troops and to give the American people a better perspective to try to make them more comfortable with his plan now to help crush the insurgency and put Iraq on a path to democracy.
We talked earlier today to the Democratic pollster Peter Hart who said one of the reasons the president lost momentum coming out of that first debate voters didn't like not just how he looked, but what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER HART, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: George Bush had set answers, but he really didn't have a set direction. The voters were really thrown off by what I would say was a sense of rigidity, a sense of inconsistency and not a sense of vision and forward-looking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Again, aides describe the president as quite relaxed, looking forward to the debate performance tonight. After making his case on Iraq, aides say he will also make the case that, while they concede Senator Kerry has been more effective over the past week or so in framing the Iraq debate, the president's prepared to try to make the case that what he is saying now is inconsistent with things he has said not only earlier in this campaign, but throughout the debate over in Iraq the past seven to 10 years while in the United States Senate.
And Lou, this is a very competitive man, the president of the United States. He is stung a bit personally by the reviews of his performance last week, and aides say he is very much looking forward to getting in that hall tonight -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you.
John King from St. Louis.
Let's turn now to Candy Crowley for a report on the mood and -- in the Kerry camp and the direction likely to be followed in tonight's debate -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, they are feeling pretty good, very happy to have all of the expectations on the president. When they went into the Miami debate, what they needed was to get some momentum. Now they feel they just need to keep it going.
This has been a great week so far as the Kerry campaign is concerned, and they say, look, what's happened so far. They've had the top civilian appointed by George Bush saying that more troops should have been on the ground in post-war Iraq, and then you had the inspectors' report that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when the U.S. went to war there.
Now they have the jobs numbers that have come out today. They think all of this sets the table very nicely for the things they'd like to talk about tonight. In fact, John Kerry was so eager to talk about the jobs report, he did it a little early.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Tonight, I look forward to talking to America about how we can have a better plan to put Americans back to work and to create better jobs for our country. That's what America deserve, and that's what it's going to get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Forget all that talk you hear about how George Bush is so great in these town hall meetings. John Kerry has had plenty of them. I can tell you firsthand that he is quite adept at these forums as well as in the debate forums. They are very relaxed here at the Kerry campaign. They say, in fact, that they believe that, in the end, if George Bush, as one put it, is able to put together a coherent sentence, if he looks reasonably likable, that the news media is going to say, well, that George Bush won, and the aides said, then we'll just go on to Tempe.
So feeling pretty upbeat here today -- Lou.
DOBBS: OK, Candy. Thanks.
Candy Crowley from St. Louis.
Now for a debate without any rules, total freedom of expression, I am joined by Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee, and Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee. There are no rules because we both -- we all know these two gentlemen are the most civil, as well as talented gentlemen, leading their respective parties. Both in St. Louis, of course, tonight.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
Let's begin with the big news today on unemployment, the creation of jobs. Ed, these numbers cannot please the White House. Only 96,000 jobs created last month.
ED GILLESPIE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICATION NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, Lou, the president's not going to rest until every American who wants a job can find a job, but the fact is we have created nearly two million jobs over the past year, 13 straight months of job creation, as a result of president's policies. We did take a hit after September 11. We lost a million jobs in the first three months after September 11.
But, if you look at the economy and where some of the principal indicators are today relative to, say, 1996 when Bill Clinton was running for reelection, the fact is that home ownership is at an all- time high, higher than it was then as a percentage; the unemployment rate is lower; economic growth rates are higher; fewer -- a smaller percentage of people working part-time who want to work full-time; the inflation rate is lower; mortgage rates are lower.
So, when you look at the economy in '96 and people, say, well, President Clinton is going to be reelected, the economy by -- most benchmarks are better today in 2004 than in '96.
DOBBS: Terry McAuliffe, 5.4 percent unemployment rate. That's a pretty strong unemployment rate, a positive unemployment rate historically. Is that difficult for Senator Kerry to deal with?
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, first of all, as you know, Lou, Senator Kerry has said and pledged to create 10 million new jobs his first term in office. He's also promised to give a tax cut to 99 percent of the taxpayers.
This is very bad news for America. We want everybody employed, but when the president comes out with an economic plan that only benefits the top 1 percent, only 96,000 jobs created last month -- you need to create 150,000 new jobs every month just to keep up with the population growth.
George Bush now officially is the first president in 72 years that will not have created a single net new job in this country, and, for the few jobs that George Bush has created, they are jobs that pay on average less than $15.40 an hour, they come with no health benefits.
With John Kerry and John Edwards, you're going to get real quality jobs that come with health benefits. We've got to move this country forward. But today's economic numbers, anemic numbers, but that sums up Bush economic policy, an anemic economic policy.
GILLESPIE: Lou, if I...
DOBBS: Ed Gillespie...
GILLESPIE: ... might just...
DOBBS: Surely.
GILLESPIE: Well, let me just point out a couple of things here, which is, of course, the president just signed a tax relief bill that extended the child tax credit, that repealed the marriage penalty that is punitive to those -- once you get married, paying a higher rate than those who are not married -- extend the 10 percent bracket for lower-income workers.
Terry's just flat wrong when he said that the president's tax policies only benefit the top 1 percent. In fact, they disproportionately benefit those who are at the lower end of the spectrum and the burden -- the income tax burden under this president has shifted. More -- a higher percentage of the top income taxpayers pay a higher share of the income tax burden under this president than before he took office.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you...
MCAULIFFE: Well, I would just let...
DOBBS: I'm sorry. Go ahead, Terry.
MCAULIFFE: Lou, I will just let the results speak for themselves. We just came out -- you just saw a major economic study that said the middle class are now having to carry the tax burden because of George Bush's economic policies, which have gone to the top 1 percent. You ask most Americans today...
GILLESPIE: After...
MCAULIFFE: ... who are out there. They feel squeezed. They feel that they're being asked to do more with less. They've seen their wages be stagnant or declining, and yet they've seen health-care costs up 50 percent, education costs go up 35 percent, the cost of gasoline for an average family of four is up $600. A barrel of oil today, as you saw, went over $52. These are failed policies of the Bush administration. Americans don't feel better about ...
GILLESPIE: The fact is after-tax income...
MCAULIFFE: ... their own economic outlook.
GILLESPIE: Just wait a second. Hang on, Terry.
The fact is after-tax income is higher today than it was when President Bush took office. Eight percent of the jobs that are being created in the economy are at higher wages than the jobs they're replacing. Those are just facts. Terry can't make things up. Those are facts.
DOBBS: Well, let's turn...
MCAULIFFE: Just check with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. You saw the report today from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, disagrees totally. This is the Bush-Cheney spin. Go out, Ed. Get out of Washington. Go travel across this country, and they will tell you that they're not...
GILLESPIE: Terry, I've been traveling the country, as you well know.
MCAULIFFE: ... that doing better under George Bush's economic plan, and they're not doing well, Ed. I'll tell you that. They're feeling squeezed. Bush has hurt them, and Bush could care less about them.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, I said no rules. There is one...
GILLESPIE: Well, I'll tell you what...
DOBBS: There is one rule, if I may interject, and the only rule is I get to ask at least one more question.
MCAULIFFE: Yes, sir, Lou. It's your show.
GILLESPIE: All right. Fair enough.
DOBBS: Ed, if you would like to go ahead, you had something quickly to say, and then I would like to ask the...
GILLESPIE: Yes. I just wanted to say, if Senator Kerry truly cared about the middle-class squeeze, he wouldn't have voted against child tax relief, he wouldn't have voted against marriage penalty relief, he wouldn't have voted against expanding the lower tax bracket to a 10 percent bracket to save all of those folks money so that they could have higher after-tax incomes today than they did when President Bush took office, but he voted against all of those things.
DOBBS: The question I had ...
MCAULIFFE: George Bush has underfunded by education by $33 million. Forty-five million Americans...
GILLESPIE: Terry, $100 million reverted...
MCAULIFFE: ... have no health insurance today.
GILLESPIE: $100 million in federal education funding reverted to the Federal Treasury last year because the states couldn't fund it fast enough.
MCAULIFFE: But the pharmaceutical companies are doing great, but they're not doing great for Americans today.
GILLESPIE: This president has spent more in one term on education K through 12 than President Clinton spent in two terms. The states had to have $100 million revert to the Federal Treasury last year because they couldn't spend they fast enough for No Child Left Behind.
MCAULIFFE: Then why have 13 states today opted out of Leave No Child Behind, including conservative legislatures like Virginia. This is an unfunded mandate. There's no money for teacher training, no more money for school construction.
DOBBS: Gentlemen...
MCAULIFFE: Your own Republican legislature is pulling out of this.
DOBBS: Gentlemen ...
GILLESPIE: Factually inaccurate!
MCAULIFFE: Lou, your show.
DOBBS: Gentlemen -- thank you very much for that, Terry. Thank you, Ed.
MCAULIFFE: Lou, great to be with you.
DOBBS: The only rule that we had for this...
GILLESPIE: Lou, it was great to be on Terry's show again. Good to see you.
MCAULIFFE: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: The only rule we had for this debate, gentlemen, was that I would get to ask another question, and you broke the last vestige of rule-making.
MCAULIFFE: I'm sorry, Lou. I apologize.
DOBBS: Ed Gillespie. Terry McAuliffe.
We thank you both, gentlemen.
GILLESPIE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up next here, the experts all have opinions on the state of this economy, but families all across this country know the real America they live in firsthand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We set out a monthly budget, and, you know, we try our hardest not to go over that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Tonight, a special report on the extraordinary and very real pressures on our middle class.
And then, Democracy at Risk. Why some experts are now warning Ohio could be the next Florida. Could Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell be the next Katherine Harris? He is our guest.
And why American jobs have been flooding to a country the size of Arizona for two decades now. We'll have that story and a great deal more still ahead here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Both campaigns today using the jobs report to gain political advantage -- trying at least -- but politicians, policymakers and the pundits, of course, don't know everything. Some would suggest they don't know anything about the real economy.
To find out what's happening in this economy, we turn to the real experts, people themselves. Christine Romans has their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The American dream for the Sharp family is their own home and two beautiful children -- and mortgage payments, daycare bills, rising health-care premiums and skyrocketing energy costs.
DANA SHARP, PARENT: We both have to work.
ROB SHARP, PARENT: We absolutely both do have to work.
DANA SHARP: Yes.
ROB SHARP: And we probably have some of the advantages that other people may not have.
ROMANS: Advantages like healthy children, a head start on their retirement, their own home in New Jersey and good jobs. Rob is an engineering professor; Dana, a graphic artist. But their raises evaporate after higher doctor co-pays and health-care premiums. They are not alone.
George Sweeney runs a small Manhattan architecture firm. He used to pay for his employee's health-care insurance. Now he can only afford to pay half.
GEORGE SWEENEY, ARCHITECT: We've tried to compensate that with bonuses and raises, and we've tried to time it in such a way that it wouldn't be painful. But, yes, I mean, everybody has to bear the burden.
ROMANS: It's a burden that only gets heavier. The average American family can expect another $500 next year for premiums and co- pays.
In Massachusetts, pet shop entrepreneur Dave Ratner absorbed the higher health-are premiums for his full-time employees, but that means he's now hiring part-time workers.
DAVE RATNER, PET SHOP OWNER: There's a problem with hiring someone who's full-time now because of the health-care costs and all of the other benefits. We bring on part-time, and then it's up to you to make us fall in love with you.
ROMANS: Especially since he's getting squeezed by fuel costs, heating 15,000-square-foot stores and now paying additional fuel surcharges for every delivery he gets.
In California, those fuel prices have consumers struggling to make the money last as long as the month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My budget? It has gotten smaller absolutely! But, you know, I've maintained, and I feel that that's what the state of America is in right now. We're just maintaining.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We set out a monthly budget, and, you know, we try our hardest not to go over that because, you know, with gas prices going up and down, we have to really be careful on what we spend and how we spend.
ROMANS: In Alsip, Illinois, Kocsis Brothers may actually benefit from those high energy prices. The company makes parts for windmills. General manager Wayne Batkewicz has recently hired another full-time machinists, but his optimism has limits.
WAYNE BATKEWICZ, KOCSIS BROTHERS MACHINE CO.: I don't think the economy as bad as everyone wants to make you believe, but I think you have to go out there and hustle to make it. It's not going to come to you.
DANA SHARP: Little Jack Horner sat in a corner...
ROMANS; And the Sharp family knows that. With two children under the age of 3, there will be long years of hustle to pay for runny noses and college tuition.
DANA SHARP: Who's that?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And, Lou, that's the bottom line. From New Jersey to California from Main Street to the factory floor, Americans are working harder than ever just to stay even.
DOBBS: These families that you've highlighted here tonight, what are their broader concerns within the economy? What are the issues that are weighing on their minds?
ROMANS: Social Security. They say they're not going to plan on having Social Security there for them. Also deficits. More than one of these families and these managers and business owners said they're concerned about rising deficits and what that will mean for the long term for this economy.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. We'd like to know how you're thinking about this economy. The question is: How does your economy -- your personal economy -- compare to all of these government statistics -- better, worse or the same? Please cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results, of course, later here in the show.
Taking a look at some of your thoughts.
P. Katz in Bayonne, New Jersey, "Years ago, people thought of keeping jobs in our communities as part of a patriotic mission. Today, our sense of community is being shattered by those who would scatter the American dream to the four corners of the earth."
Bob in Columbia, Maryland, "Let me see if I understand this. It's OK for businesses to use the free-market defense when they export jobs, but it's not a fair argument when seniors and persons with disabilities want to negotiate for lower-priced prescription drugs."
Barbara Taylor in Reno, Nevada, "Lou, the Bush administration says they are creating many new jobs. Wow! They just didn't tell us that they were all in foreign countries."
We love hearing your thoughts. Send them to us at loudobs@cnn.com. Please send your name and address. Each of you whose e-mail is read on the broadcast receives a free copy of my new book, "Exporting America."
Still ahead here tonight, Democracy at Risk. Why some experts are now predicting nothing short of an election nightmare in at least one battleground state. Ohio's secretary of state, Ken Blackwell, says they are wrong. He is my guest next.
And then, outrage after radical Islamist terrorists brutally murder a British hostage captured in Iraq. We'll have that story and the very latest on the radical Islamist bombings of three Egyptian resort towns.
And our feature series, Heroes. Tonight, how one New York man is helping to support American men and women wounded in battle. Amazingly, he says he's no hero. We'll have his inspiring story here tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a good idea if you acted on it and put in some hard work, but that's far from being a hero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Tonight, a new election lawsuit in the State of Florida.
The state's Democratic Party is suing Secretary of State Glenda Hood, accusing her of breaking federal law. They're challenging Hood's order to election officials in Florida's 67 counties to reject any incomplete voter registration forms. The Democrats say that includes forms where voters fail to check a box stating that they are a United States citizen, even though they sign a different part of the same form vowing they are a U.S. citizen.
A federal judge today refused to order Hood to change her instructions. Some county officials say they don't plan to follow Hood's orders at all. Where that leaves us is anybody's guess.
My next guest is another secretary of state in a battleground state. He was being criticized as well by Democrats. Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell recently rescinded an order that would have allowed only a certain type of paper for voter registration cards. Still, his critics say he has created widespread voter confusion.
Ken Blackwell, as Ohio's top election official, also the head of the Bush-Cheney campaign in that state, joining us tonight from Cincinnati.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Secretary.
KENNETH BLACKWELL, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, first of all, Ohio is shaping up as a battleground state in more ways than one, certainly. Obviously, politically in the contest between the president and Senator Kerry, but, also, in -- on terms of provisional ballots being provided, the weight of paper stock, electronic voting. You have more than enough challenges, it seems, on your hands.
BLACKWELL: Well, Ohio election professionals always come through. We are known as one of the most professional election administrations in the country. Many of the things that we've done for years are, in fact, standards that are now being used nationwide.
Let's take provisional ballots, for example. Ohio's had provisional ballots for over a decade, and we have done just...
DOBBS: We should explain -- excuse me. -- a provisional... BLACKWELL: OK. A provisional ballot.
DOBBS: Go ahead.
BLACKWELL: A provisional ballot is simply a ballot that's given to a voter who declares that he or she is registered but does not show up on the roles.
In the State of Ohio, we say that that voter who claims to be registered deserves a provisional ballot until his claim can be checked out and validated. That means that the person can vote at one of three places, the precinct in which his or her address is located, the board of elections or a regional center that is designated by the board of elections. So there are three options for an Ohio voter with a provisional ballot.
The question here and the controversy is that I have, in fact, said we will uphold Ohio law, which is consistent with federal law, which says that you must vote in the precinct in which you live, if you choose to vote in a precinct.
DOBBS: And the Democrats have sued you as a result.
BLACKWELL: Oh, absolutely. And -- but what's so interesting here, Lou, is that our law is the same as that in 27 other states -- New York, Texas. Nobody is bringing suit there, perhaps because they are not a battleground state.
We have this issue before a U.S. federal -- a federal judge in district court. I anticipate that he will make a ruling within the next -- the next ten days, and we will all abide by the rule of law in the state of Ohio.
DOBBS: One would certainly hope that they would expedite this case.
BLACKWELL: Absolutely.
DOBBS: As you know, you are being called in many quarters the 2004 Katherine Harris because of the potential problems.
Let me read to you, we have received this statement from the Ohio Senate Minority Caucus, which says -- it's Democratic Party from State Senator Mark Mallory. Saying, "The Ohio Secretary of State is creating barriers to voting when he should be removing them. Congress passed the Help America Vote Act to avoid a repeat of the Florida 2000 election."
BLACKWELL: Well, first, Lou, let me just say, last time I checked, I was very comfortable in my masculinity and I'm not looking for a sex change.
Now, in terms of Senator Mark Mallory, that is a disingenuous claim. In May of 2003, he was a member of a bipartisan committee that reviewed Ohio's election law to see if they were in compliance with HAVA. That committee voted unanimously...
DOBBS: The Help America...
BLACKWELL: The Help America Vote Act. Right.
He in fact was among the committee members that unanimously voted that our provisional ballot laws were in compliance with HAVA or the Help America Vote Act.
DOBBS: Are you...
BLACKWELL: So for him now to claim that this is a barrier is a bit baffling to most people who have common sense and have a dimension of reasonableness to their thinking.
DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, you're also, I would assume, concerned about what a number of other people are saying within the community, within the state of Ohio, and that is you're putting up unreasonable barriers to lower-income people who may have some difficulty in meeting all of this.
BLACKWELL: Lou -- Lou, let's go back. Again, listen to what I'm saying. This is the provision...
DOBBS: I'll try hard.
BLACKWELL: This is the provisional ballot law that has been in place in Ohio for 10 years. This is the provisional ballot practice...
DOBBS: OK.
BLACKWELL: ... that was used in the primary in May...
DOBBS: So you're not concerned...
BLACKWELL: ... of this year.
DOBBS: You're not concerned that this is creating an artificial barrier at all?
BLACKWELL: How is it a barrier, Lou?
DOBBS: Well, I'm asking you. I'm asking you, Mr. Secretary.
BLACKWELL: Lou -- Lou, I just told you...
DOBBS: We're going to have to run. I just need a real straight -- straight and simple statement.
BLACKWELL: I gave you...
DOBBS: Are you concerned or are you not, yes or no?
BLACKWELL: I gave you a straight and simple answer. Anybody who has a provisional ballot in Ohio can vote that ballot in the three places located -- that are identified in the law.
DOBBS: So you are -- so you are concerned that it may be a barrier or are you not?
BLACKWELL: No, it is not a barrier.
DOBBS: That's all I ask, Mr. Secretary.
BLACKWELL: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: It looks to me like you're going to have a lot of support in enforcing those rules and interpreting them.
BLACKWELL: We sure are.
DOBBS: Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, state of Ohio. Thanks for being here. Good luck.
BLACKWELL: Good to be with you. Three-fifths of the states use that same standard.
DOBBS: Turning to overseas' issues and developments, and they are difficult and serious developments.
Israel today blaming al Qaeda for three deadly bomb attacks in Egyptian holiday resorts last night. At least 29 people have been confirmed dead, many of them Israelis vacationing in Egypt. More than 30 people are still unaccounted for.
The worst attack in Taba. That blast destroyed part of a Hilton Hotel in Iraq.
Radical Islamist terrorists have cut off of the head of hostage Kenneth Bigley. U.S. officials say Bigley was beheaded after an unsuccessful escape attempt.
Bigley and two Americans were kidnapped in Baghdad three weeks ago. All of them are now dead.
Elsewhere in Iraq, American aircraft launched another air strike against a suspected insurgent safe house in Fallujah. Local officials say at least 14 people were killed in the attacks.
And in northern Iraq, an American soldier has been killed near Kirkuk.
In "Heroes" tonight, one man's remarkable journey to support the wounded troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. Chris Carney may not be in the armed forces, but he is, nonetheless, a hero to thousands and thousands of troops and their families.
Peter Viles has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sitting right here. CHRIS CARNEY, CYCLIST: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you're going to do is go up here...
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chris Carney is getting directions from a local sheriff's deputy. It's the last day of his cross-country bicycle ride to raise money and awareness for the Wounded Warrior Project.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it possible to come around?
VILES: Carney is 34, a Long Island bartender, and he never served in the military. But he left home almost two months ago, traveled more than 4,000 miles through 13 states. Today, the final stretch.
Carney is riding with some of those wounded warriors he wants to help. The ride has raised half a million dollars from mostly individual donors to provide backpacks filled with necessities like shaving kits, clothing and CD players for wounded soldiers arriving back in the United States.
CARNEY: We can harness the way everyone feels. We can harness all the thoughts and prayers, and we support the troops in one, you know, specific effort. We can seriously make a difference and seriously help them out.
VILES: As the sun sets on the Pacific Ocean, Carney reaches his goal...
CARNEY: Whoa!
VILES: ... and the celebration begins.
(MUSIC)
VILES: John Melia is the founder of the Wounded Warrior Project.
JOHN MELIA, FOUNDER, WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT: Over 7,000 military service members have been wounded in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we've been able to help most of the in-patients who've -- who've been in the military hospitals around the country.
MAX TADLOCK, MILITARY ORDER OF THE PURPLE HEART: Bunch of fine young men, dedicated, done a good job.
RYAN KELLY, VETERAN: He's really -- in the eyes of wounded vets, he's one our heroes.
CARNEY: I just rode a bike, and I mean, maybe I'm a guy who had a good idea and who acted on it and put in some hard work. But that's far from being a hero, you know?
I had a good idea and did some hard work and -- for heroes, if anything. VILES: After a week's vacation, Carney plans to go back to tending bar. He says he'll keep working for the Wounded Warrior Project until all the injured soldiers get the help they need, a transition to a normal life.
Peter Viles, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And to learn more about how you help the Wounded Warriors, just go to our web site, LouDobbs@CNN.com. Or LouDobbs.com, either one. That will get you to the right information to help this very worthwhile organization to support our heroes.
Still ahead here tonight, where have the jobs gone? For over two decades, a large number of American jobs have been going overseas. Tonight, we focus on one destination, the Philippines.
We'll have that report, and why, why our government is still not equipped to do anything about the rising outsourcing crisis? Why information that should be readily available is indeed not.
Congressman John Dingell of Michigan is among those who want answers, and he is among those fighting to change all of that. He's our guest.
And three of the country's top political journalists will be here to tell us what we can expect in the upcoming presidential presentation now, just over two hours away. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This week, we've turned our to our reporters around the world to take you to all of the places that American jobs are being shipped.
The Philippines is one of those destinations. It has an abundance of highly educated cheap labor that will work for a fraction of the wages of American counterparts.
Maria Ressa has the story from Manila.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA RESSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's noon in New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, thank you very much. We appreciate that.
RESSA: But midnight in Manila, where your U.S. call has been routed by companies like AOL, American Express and Citibank.
Etelecare is the largest Asia-based call center company, servicing Fortune 500 companies. DEREK HOLLEY, PRESIDENT, ETELECARE: There's no question the accents and communication skills are better in the Philippines when it comes to English than anywhere else in the world outside of the U.S.
RESSA: A compelling reason? Labor is cheaper here.
(on camera) You've already heard about the low costs. The starting salaries here average about $300 a month, roughly a fifth of their American counterparts.
But Etelecare says it goes one step beyond those low costs, emphasizing superior performance.
(voice-over) The founders say it's like hiring Princeton and Harvard graduates to man their phones. Partly because of a 13 percent unemployment rate, companies like this have their pick of the best of Manila's top universities.
But outsourcing in the Philippines is not new. It began 20 years ago, sparked by the U.S. bases, once this country's top dollar earner, the remnants of half a century the Philippines spent as an American colony.
The government estimates the call center industry will generate up to $800 million in revenues this year. And it wants to lure more American investors. Incentives like tax holiday, reinstating English as the language of instructions in schools nationwide and deregulating to encourage infrastructure development.
Etelecare recently bought an American company and continues to grow in both Asia and the U.S. For the past four years, it's won the world's best outsourcer award at the largest industry trade show in the U.S. That, plus the bottom line, explain the allure of outsourcing here.
Maria Ressa, CNN, Manila.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Government work as well as flooding to cheap foreign labor markets at a staggering rate.
My next guest commissioned the report, along with four of his colleagues. Congressman John Dingell of Michigan asking what is unacceptable is that our government is still completely unprepared to deal with the exporting of American jobs?
The commerce and labor departments can't even track the trends, he says. And that was born out in the latest GAO report.
Congressman Dingell joins me tonight from Capitol Hill.
Good to have you here.
REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: Delighted to be here, Lou. Thank you. DOBBS: You -- You and several others, Congressman, have asked Commerce Secretary Don Evans to at least respond to you on the issue finding out how many jobs precisely and comprehensibly are being lost to outsourcing.
What is the likelihood in your judgment of a response?
DINGELL: Well, we hope we'll get a response, and we hope we get a good response.
The GAO study tells us that, first of all, we don't know where these jobs are going, how many of them are leaving, and what are the circumstances and conditions? How you address the problems in the American economy without knowing these facts is, of course, is a very difficult question to answer.
DOBBS: A difficult question to answer, and as you point out, government is accelerating its outsourcing of jobs. Do you have any hope at all that at least that, the federal government can be constrained in its outsourcing?
DINGELL: Well, Congresswoman Delauro, Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin and a number of us on the Hill, including myself, have introduced legislation to ban the outsourcing of jobs for government purposes abroad.
There has been a jump in -- just in federal government practices in this area in about a year of 64 percent. And of course, University of California's estimates that we can see 14 million American jobs going overseas in the next few years. The situation's very serious.
Interestingly enough, the legislation would also ban moving of state jobs, which are financed by or participated in federal government programs overseas. The states are doing exactly the same thing. With a large number of questions that rise.
First, protection of American privacy. Second of all, protection of American security, because some of these jobs -- some of these jobs are using information which is defense oriented.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Congressman John Dingell, we're out of time, but I want to say thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it and good talking to you, as always.
DINGELL: Lou, thank you for what you're doing here.
DOBBS: Congressman John Dingell, thank you.
Still ahead here tonight, round two of the so-called presidential debates. The candidates preparing to answer real questions from real voters. We'll have a preview. Three of the country's top political journalists assess what lies ahead.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: In just a little over two hours, the presidential candidates will be beginning their second so-called debate.
Joining me now, three of the country's very best political journalists: Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent, "TIME" magazine; Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent, "L.A. Times"; in St. Louis, Roger Simon, political editor, "U.S. News & World Report."
Let's begin first, and Karen, I'll begin with you, 96,000 jobs created in the last month. That's got to be a huge disappointment to the Bush administration, no matter the spin.
How important is that number in tonight's debate?
KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, I think you're going to hear it probably more than a few times in tonight's debate.
This is the last jobs report we're going to get before the election. These first Fridays have been problems for the Republicans all the way through this campaign. And this, of course, is the first debate where we're going to see these two guys questioned on domestic issues.
So yes, you're going to hear that number a few times.
DOBBS: And, Ron, tomorrow the elections in Afghanistan. At least in the Afghanistan, there is a basis for the Bush administration to claim success.
How important do you -- do you expect it to be important at all in tonight's debate?
RON BROWNSTEIN, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "L.A. TIMES": I think it will be brought up by the president. He has cited, I believe even in advertising, if I remember correctly.
Obviously, there is dispute about to the extent the central government is really controlling the entire country even amidst this election process, but it is something that the president, I think, will tout.
In the end, though, right now American troops are under more danger in Iraq and that clearly is a more significant issue in the campaign.
DOBBS: And, Roger, the latest poll, or the "TIME" magazine poll in point in fact, has both Bush and Kerry nearly in a dead heat. Nearly every recent poll has shown this race incredibly tight.
How important is tonight's debate, so-called, for both of these men?
ROGER SIMON, POLITICAL EDITOR, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": I think it's extremely important. I think there's almost a universal feeling here in the room among Democrats, Republicans, and journalists that this is really almost can do or die for George Bush.
He wouldn't literally be out of it if he had another poor performance here, but he certainly has to dig himself out of the hole he dug himself in in Coral Gables.
He has to do better, better both on performance points and substance points. I don't think we're going to hear tonight 12 times that Iraq is hard work. I think he has to come up with better lines than that.
DOBBS: Karen, we've heard tonight on this broadcast from Ed Gillespie, the head of the RNC, Terry McAuliffe, the head of the DNC. These two men were very engaged, unlike I've ever seen them, frankly, in all the time that they've been contesting one another.
Is there a sense that this is going to be a far more energetic exchange there than anything that we've seen?
TUMULTY: Well, you can certainly assume that by what the two men have been saying on the campaign trail this week. We've heard some of the toughest rhetoric of this entire campaign in their speeches.
And watch carefully, too, for messages that are targeted toward women. Because one of the most important numbers underlying our poll that was just released this afternoon suggests that where President Bush had pulled even with John Kerry before the last debate among women, traditionally a Democratic constituency, John Kerry has once again broken out a very big lead among female voters.
DOBBS: Go ahead, Ron.
BROWNSTEIN: Can I do this very quickly? Town hall debates aren't always the best place for sharp elbows, though. I mean, historically, it's been tough to be very confrontational in the town hall debates.
Sometimes voters will get up early on and ask the candidates not to bicker or to talk about the issues without attacking each other. They can sort of restrain that kind of behavior. The questions don't always lend itself to it.
I do agree with Karen that they have been on a collision course this week. The president had a very aggressive new stump speech, designed to shift the onus and the focus back to Senator Kerry.
But the news of the last 48 hours, first the Iraq Survey Group report and now the job numbers, are shifting, again, the attention back to his performance. And as I said, I think on that front, we have a much more closely divided country.
DOBBS: Far more difficult for President Bush to alter the campaign to a referendum on Senator Kerry, Roger?
SIMON: Yes. In this debate, the moderator is going to be even more important than the past debates. He gets to choose all the questions asked by the people. There are about 140 people in the room, but you're only going to hear between 20 and 40 questions. And Charlie Gibson, a very able newsperson, is going to do the selecting of what those questions are.
Sometimes the debate -- the questions can be very narrow. You know, "I've lost my job and my husband is ill." But sometimes it can be surprisingly tough, surprisingly focused and surprisingly difficult to handle.
DOBBS: It seems it me you have described, just then, a very tough question for anyone to handle.
Roger, Karen, Ron, I want to talk to you about the lawsuits that have been filed now in Florida. Election lawsuits in Florida and Ohio and a great deal more in this campaign.
We're going to be right back with our panel in just a moment. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Roger, I want to turn first, if I may, to you.
Lawsuits already in Ohio, lawsuits in Florida, challenging the election officials there. Is this just the beginning of a great deal of lawsuits to come?
SIMON: I'm afraid so. I think no one wants to see this time what happened four years ago, that this election is handled by -- is determined by lawyers arguing in front of judges to see who really won.
But all that money which Congress appropriated to fix the election system in the United States hasn't done much of a fixing, and once again we are facing the possibility of having elections even without written records this time where we can go back and recount the vote if we need to.
TUMULTY: Hey, look.
DOBBS: Yes, go ahead.
TUMULTY: This election is a full employment act for lawyers. In Columbus, Ohio, alone, the Democratic Party is going to have 200 lawyers standing by at 200 different polling places.
I think there's a very real possibility that if this race stays close, it could well go into overtime, just like it did in 2000.
BROWNSTEIN: And in fact that is the key condition, though, Lou. You know, we not only have all the objective questions about the election systems. We have the reality that this is a very -- converging again into a very close race.
I think it's really that that is the prerequisite to the kind of lengthy battles that we're talking about. If one candidate pulls away, it may be somewhat moot. But if it is as close as it now looks, as we saw in 2000, you can bet the parties are going to use every means at their disposal to fight it.
DOBBS: And with registration rising to most cases record levels here in every state, battleground state.
Quickly, we have less than a minute. Ralph Nader, he has succeeded in a lot of places. Is he going to have a significant influence on the outcome, Roger?
SIMON: I don't think so. I mean, he didn't do all that well last time; and this time, I think many Americans are much more sensitive to the fact that you can waste a vote. You can cast a protest vote, but it can do a lot of damage, and I think that will damage Nader.
DOBBS: Ron?
BROWNSTEIN: His vote will be down. But it depends again, if it's achingly close, every vote matters.
DOBBS: Karen, you get the last word.
TUMULTY: Look, considering how much money he's raising from Republicans, they clearly think he can have an impact.
DOBBS: Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein, Roger Simon, thank you all as we look ahead to tonight's presidential presentation.
Still ahead, the results of our poll and stay tuned for our live coverage of the second presidential presentation, tonight from Washington University in St. Louis. Coming up with our beginning coverage, led off by Anderson Cooper in just a few minutes, right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of our poll tonight.
Ninety-two percent of you say your personal economy is worse than the government statistics that we are reporting each day, it seems, in this country. Not many undecideds, I believe, watching this broadcast.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us, as well, Monday. John Fund, author of "Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy," will be our guest, among others. Please join us.
For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next, live from Washington University in St. Louis.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 8, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, just three hours from now, President Bush and Senator Kerry meet in the second presidential presentation. We'll have a real debate tonight between Republican National Committee Chairman Ed Gillespie and Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe. No rules here, no tears.
Only 96,000 jobs created last month, far fewer than had been expected. We'll show you how both campaigns are looking for political advantage in the jobs numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN K. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president is now officially the first president in 72 years to lose jobs on his watch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON EVANS, SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: We've gained two million jobs since President Bush took office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: In our special report tonight, Democracy at Risk, we continue our reporting on the integrity of our national voting system. Tonight, we focus on Ohio. Is Ohio the new Florida? My guest is Ohio's secretary of state, Kenneth Blackwell.
And Congressman John Dingell joins me tonight. He says the Bush administration is out of touch on the issue of outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, October 8. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
The last employment report before the election today shows the economy creating only 96,000 jobs in September. That's far fewer than had been expected. The unemployment rate held steady at 5.4 percent. Job creation, of course, is one of the most critical issues in this presidential campaign.
The second presidential presentations are now just under three hours away. Both campaigns have been trying to spin these job numbers to their advantage. How are they doing?
Kitty Pilgrim has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a game called Spin the Numbers, and the stakes are high. As the election nears, historical comparisons are picked for maximum effect.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), MISSOURI: It's the worst record since Herbert Hoover.
ELAINE CHAO, SECRETARY OF LABOR: Our unemployment rate is 5.4 percent. This is lower than the average unemployment rate in the decade of the 1970s, 1980s and the 1990s.
KERRY: The president is now officially the first president in 72 years to lose jobs on his watch.
PILGRIM: A new Bush-Cheney ad was launched talking about job creation.
ANNOUNCER: Nearly two million new jobs in just over a year.
PILGRIM: That is true, but the Kerry campaign points out, despite those job gains in the last year, the country is still down about a million jobs since the president took office. Ninety-six thousand jobs were created in September. But, again, Kerry's economic advisers repeatedly say it takes up to 150,000 new jobs a month just to keep up with population growth.
Now dueling sound bites quibbling over the interpretation of the numbers.
EVANS: We've got more Americans working today than we've ever had working in the history of our country.
PILGRIM: The quality of jobs and the outlook for the future, two entirely different takes.
SEN. ROBERT BENNETT (R), UTAH: The recovery has traction. It's going forward. The jobs are coming.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The new jobs that are being created, a huge percentage of them are minimum wage jobs, fast-food restaurants, janitorial jobs, part-time jobs, low-wage jobs, jobs with no benefits.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Manufacturing, again, lost jobs, and so did the retail industry and information technology. Now, no matter how the candidates talk about it, it's not a theoretical discussion. Voters will take all this very personally and interpret the numbers with their own spin on how this plays out in their lives -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, senior Bush administration officials also highlighted some preliminary job estimates that have not been confirmed by the Labor Department. Government experts now say it appears the economy added about 236,000 more jobs than previously thought in the year to March. But even with that revision, the economy has still lost 585,000 jobs since President Bush took office.
Jobs not the only issue, of course, likely to be discussed in tonight's presidential presentations in St. Louis. President Bush and Senator Kerry are also likely to face tough questions about Iraq and the global war on terror.
John King is covering the Bush-Cheney campaign. Candy Crowley is covering the Kerry-Edwards campaign. Both, of course, tonight in St. Louis.
We begin with John King -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, hard it overstate the importance of tonight's debate for the president. His performance in last week's debate was widely criticized, not only his facial expressions, but some of his answers and his responses as well. Mr. Bush enters, of course, trying to take away the momentum Senator Kerry did gain out of that last debate.
He took a tour of the debate hall tonight. This is a town hall- style setting. The president is very comfortable in that setting. Aides say he is relaxed, joking during that walk-through of the hall about his controversy of his angry and other facial expressions last week.
Mr. Bush knows tonight that one of the topics will undoubtedly be the economy, and he will make the case that there was a recession early in his terms, then the September 11 attacks, and, in his view, the trend line now is heading dramatically in the right direction. Mr. Bush then will then pivot to make the case that, in his view, Senator Kerry would raise taxes and hurt the economy.
More importantly, aides say it is for the president to do a far better job in this debate than he did in the last one explaining his policy in Iraq. Aides say he must explain why he went to war in the first place, perhaps why he objected some recommendations to send in more troops and to give the American people a better perspective to try to make them more comfortable with his plan now to help crush the insurgency and put Iraq on a path to democracy.
We talked earlier today to the Democratic pollster Peter Hart who said one of the reasons the president lost momentum coming out of that first debate voters didn't like not just how he looked, but what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER HART, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: George Bush had set answers, but he really didn't have a set direction. The voters were really thrown off by what I would say was a sense of rigidity, a sense of inconsistency and not a sense of vision and forward-looking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Again, aides describe the president as quite relaxed, looking forward to the debate performance tonight. After making his case on Iraq, aides say he will also make the case that, while they concede Senator Kerry has been more effective over the past week or so in framing the Iraq debate, the president's prepared to try to make the case that what he is saying now is inconsistent with things he has said not only earlier in this campaign, but throughout the debate over in Iraq the past seven to 10 years while in the United States Senate.
And Lou, this is a very competitive man, the president of the United States. He is stung a bit personally by the reviews of his performance last week, and aides say he is very much looking forward to getting in that hall tonight -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you.
John King from St. Louis.
Let's turn now to Candy Crowley for a report on the mood and -- in the Kerry camp and the direction likely to be followed in tonight's debate -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, they are feeling pretty good, very happy to have all of the expectations on the president. When they went into the Miami debate, what they needed was to get some momentum. Now they feel they just need to keep it going.
This has been a great week so far as the Kerry campaign is concerned, and they say, look, what's happened so far. They've had the top civilian appointed by George Bush saying that more troops should have been on the ground in post-war Iraq, and then you had the inspectors' report that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when the U.S. went to war there.
Now they have the jobs numbers that have come out today. They think all of this sets the table very nicely for the things they'd like to talk about tonight. In fact, John Kerry was so eager to talk about the jobs report, he did it a little early.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Tonight, I look forward to talking to America about how we can have a better plan to put Americans back to work and to create better jobs for our country. That's what America deserve, and that's what it's going to get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Forget all that talk you hear about how George Bush is so great in these town hall meetings. John Kerry has had plenty of them. I can tell you firsthand that he is quite adept at these forums as well as in the debate forums. They are very relaxed here at the Kerry campaign. They say, in fact, that they believe that, in the end, if George Bush, as one put it, is able to put together a coherent sentence, if he looks reasonably likable, that the news media is going to say, well, that George Bush won, and the aides said, then we'll just go on to Tempe.
So feeling pretty upbeat here today -- Lou.
DOBBS: OK, Candy. Thanks.
Candy Crowley from St. Louis.
Now for a debate without any rules, total freedom of expression, I am joined by Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee, and Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee. There are no rules because we both -- we all know these two gentlemen are the most civil, as well as talented gentlemen, leading their respective parties. Both in St. Louis, of course, tonight.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
Let's begin with the big news today on unemployment, the creation of jobs. Ed, these numbers cannot please the White House. Only 96,000 jobs created last month.
ED GILLESPIE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICATION NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, Lou, the president's not going to rest until every American who wants a job can find a job, but the fact is we have created nearly two million jobs over the past year, 13 straight months of job creation, as a result of president's policies. We did take a hit after September 11. We lost a million jobs in the first three months after September 11.
But, if you look at the economy and where some of the principal indicators are today relative to, say, 1996 when Bill Clinton was running for reelection, the fact is that home ownership is at an all- time high, higher than it was then as a percentage; the unemployment rate is lower; economic growth rates are higher; fewer -- a smaller percentage of people working part-time who want to work full-time; the inflation rate is lower; mortgage rates are lower.
So, when you look at the economy in '96 and people, say, well, President Clinton is going to be reelected, the economy by -- most benchmarks are better today in 2004 than in '96.
DOBBS: Terry McAuliffe, 5.4 percent unemployment rate. That's a pretty strong unemployment rate, a positive unemployment rate historically. Is that difficult for Senator Kerry to deal with?
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, first of all, as you know, Lou, Senator Kerry has said and pledged to create 10 million new jobs his first term in office. He's also promised to give a tax cut to 99 percent of the taxpayers.
This is very bad news for America. We want everybody employed, but when the president comes out with an economic plan that only benefits the top 1 percent, only 96,000 jobs created last month -- you need to create 150,000 new jobs every month just to keep up with the population growth.
George Bush now officially is the first president in 72 years that will not have created a single net new job in this country, and, for the few jobs that George Bush has created, they are jobs that pay on average less than $15.40 an hour, they come with no health benefits.
With John Kerry and John Edwards, you're going to get real quality jobs that come with health benefits. We've got to move this country forward. But today's economic numbers, anemic numbers, but that sums up Bush economic policy, an anemic economic policy.
GILLESPIE: Lou, if I...
DOBBS: Ed Gillespie...
GILLESPIE: ... might just...
DOBBS: Surely.
GILLESPIE: Well, let me just point out a couple of things here, which is, of course, the president just signed a tax relief bill that extended the child tax credit, that repealed the marriage penalty that is punitive to those -- once you get married, paying a higher rate than those who are not married -- extend the 10 percent bracket for lower-income workers.
Terry's just flat wrong when he said that the president's tax policies only benefit the top 1 percent. In fact, they disproportionately benefit those who are at the lower end of the spectrum and the burden -- the income tax burden under this president has shifted. More -- a higher percentage of the top income taxpayers pay a higher share of the income tax burden under this president than before he took office.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you...
MCAULIFFE: Well, I would just let...
DOBBS: I'm sorry. Go ahead, Terry.
MCAULIFFE: Lou, I will just let the results speak for themselves. We just came out -- you just saw a major economic study that said the middle class are now having to carry the tax burden because of George Bush's economic policies, which have gone to the top 1 percent. You ask most Americans today...
GILLESPIE: After...
MCAULIFFE: ... who are out there. They feel squeezed. They feel that they're being asked to do more with less. They've seen their wages be stagnant or declining, and yet they've seen health-care costs up 50 percent, education costs go up 35 percent, the cost of gasoline for an average family of four is up $600. A barrel of oil today, as you saw, went over $52. These are failed policies of the Bush administration. Americans don't feel better about ...
GILLESPIE: The fact is after-tax income...
MCAULIFFE: ... their own economic outlook.
GILLESPIE: Just wait a second. Hang on, Terry.
The fact is after-tax income is higher today than it was when President Bush took office. Eight percent of the jobs that are being created in the economy are at higher wages than the jobs they're replacing. Those are just facts. Terry can't make things up. Those are facts.
DOBBS: Well, let's turn...
MCAULIFFE: Just check with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. You saw the report today from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, disagrees totally. This is the Bush-Cheney spin. Go out, Ed. Get out of Washington. Go travel across this country, and they will tell you that they're not...
GILLESPIE: Terry, I've been traveling the country, as you well know.
MCAULIFFE: ... that doing better under George Bush's economic plan, and they're not doing well, Ed. I'll tell you that. They're feeling squeezed. Bush has hurt them, and Bush could care less about them.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, I said no rules. There is one...
GILLESPIE: Well, I'll tell you what...
DOBBS: There is one rule, if I may interject, and the only rule is I get to ask at least one more question.
MCAULIFFE: Yes, sir, Lou. It's your show.
GILLESPIE: All right. Fair enough.
DOBBS: Ed, if you would like to go ahead, you had something quickly to say, and then I would like to ask the...
GILLESPIE: Yes. I just wanted to say, if Senator Kerry truly cared about the middle-class squeeze, he wouldn't have voted against child tax relief, he wouldn't have voted against marriage penalty relief, he wouldn't have voted against expanding the lower tax bracket to a 10 percent bracket to save all of those folks money so that they could have higher after-tax incomes today than they did when President Bush took office, but he voted against all of those things.
DOBBS: The question I had ...
MCAULIFFE: George Bush has underfunded by education by $33 million. Forty-five million Americans...
GILLESPIE: Terry, $100 million reverted...
MCAULIFFE: ... have no health insurance today.
GILLESPIE: $100 million in federal education funding reverted to the Federal Treasury last year because the states couldn't fund it fast enough.
MCAULIFFE: But the pharmaceutical companies are doing great, but they're not doing great for Americans today.
GILLESPIE: This president has spent more in one term on education K through 12 than President Clinton spent in two terms. The states had to have $100 million revert to the Federal Treasury last year because they couldn't spend they fast enough for No Child Left Behind.
MCAULIFFE: Then why have 13 states today opted out of Leave No Child Behind, including conservative legislatures like Virginia. This is an unfunded mandate. There's no money for teacher training, no more money for school construction.
DOBBS: Gentlemen...
MCAULIFFE: Your own Republican legislature is pulling out of this.
DOBBS: Gentlemen ...
GILLESPIE: Factually inaccurate!
MCAULIFFE: Lou, your show.
DOBBS: Gentlemen -- thank you very much for that, Terry. Thank you, Ed.
MCAULIFFE: Lou, great to be with you.
DOBBS: The only rule that we had for this...
GILLESPIE: Lou, it was great to be on Terry's show again. Good to see you.
MCAULIFFE: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: The only rule we had for this debate, gentlemen, was that I would get to ask another question, and you broke the last vestige of rule-making.
MCAULIFFE: I'm sorry, Lou. I apologize.
DOBBS: Ed Gillespie. Terry McAuliffe.
We thank you both, gentlemen.
GILLESPIE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up next here, the experts all have opinions on the state of this economy, but families all across this country know the real America they live in firsthand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We set out a monthly budget, and, you know, we try our hardest not to go over that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Tonight, a special report on the extraordinary and very real pressures on our middle class.
And then, Democracy at Risk. Why some experts are now warning Ohio could be the next Florida. Could Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell be the next Katherine Harris? He is our guest.
And why American jobs have been flooding to a country the size of Arizona for two decades now. We'll have that story and a great deal more still ahead here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Both campaigns today using the jobs report to gain political advantage -- trying at least -- but politicians, policymakers and the pundits, of course, don't know everything. Some would suggest they don't know anything about the real economy.
To find out what's happening in this economy, we turn to the real experts, people themselves. Christine Romans has their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The American dream for the Sharp family is their own home and two beautiful children -- and mortgage payments, daycare bills, rising health-care premiums and skyrocketing energy costs.
DANA SHARP, PARENT: We both have to work.
ROB SHARP, PARENT: We absolutely both do have to work.
DANA SHARP: Yes.
ROB SHARP: And we probably have some of the advantages that other people may not have.
ROMANS: Advantages like healthy children, a head start on their retirement, their own home in New Jersey and good jobs. Rob is an engineering professor; Dana, a graphic artist. But their raises evaporate after higher doctor co-pays and health-care premiums. They are not alone.
George Sweeney runs a small Manhattan architecture firm. He used to pay for his employee's health-care insurance. Now he can only afford to pay half.
GEORGE SWEENEY, ARCHITECT: We've tried to compensate that with bonuses and raises, and we've tried to time it in such a way that it wouldn't be painful. But, yes, I mean, everybody has to bear the burden.
ROMANS: It's a burden that only gets heavier. The average American family can expect another $500 next year for premiums and co- pays.
In Massachusetts, pet shop entrepreneur Dave Ratner absorbed the higher health-are premiums for his full-time employees, but that means he's now hiring part-time workers.
DAVE RATNER, PET SHOP OWNER: There's a problem with hiring someone who's full-time now because of the health-care costs and all of the other benefits. We bring on part-time, and then it's up to you to make us fall in love with you.
ROMANS: Especially since he's getting squeezed by fuel costs, heating 15,000-square-foot stores and now paying additional fuel surcharges for every delivery he gets.
In California, those fuel prices have consumers struggling to make the money last as long as the month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My budget? It has gotten smaller absolutely! But, you know, I've maintained, and I feel that that's what the state of America is in right now. We're just maintaining.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We set out a monthly budget, and, you know, we try our hardest not to go over that because, you know, with gas prices going up and down, we have to really be careful on what we spend and how we spend.
ROMANS: In Alsip, Illinois, Kocsis Brothers may actually benefit from those high energy prices. The company makes parts for windmills. General manager Wayne Batkewicz has recently hired another full-time machinists, but his optimism has limits.
WAYNE BATKEWICZ, KOCSIS BROTHERS MACHINE CO.: I don't think the economy as bad as everyone wants to make you believe, but I think you have to go out there and hustle to make it. It's not going to come to you.
DANA SHARP: Little Jack Horner sat in a corner...
ROMANS; And the Sharp family knows that. With two children under the age of 3, there will be long years of hustle to pay for runny noses and college tuition.
DANA SHARP: Who's that?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And, Lou, that's the bottom line. From New Jersey to California from Main Street to the factory floor, Americans are working harder than ever just to stay even.
DOBBS: These families that you've highlighted here tonight, what are their broader concerns within the economy? What are the issues that are weighing on their minds?
ROMANS: Social Security. They say they're not going to plan on having Social Security there for them. Also deficits. More than one of these families and these managers and business owners said they're concerned about rising deficits and what that will mean for the long term for this economy.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. We'd like to know how you're thinking about this economy. The question is: How does your economy -- your personal economy -- compare to all of these government statistics -- better, worse or the same? Please cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results, of course, later here in the show.
Taking a look at some of your thoughts.
P. Katz in Bayonne, New Jersey, "Years ago, people thought of keeping jobs in our communities as part of a patriotic mission. Today, our sense of community is being shattered by those who would scatter the American dream to the four corners of the earth."
Bob in Columbia, Maryland, "Let me see if I understand this. It's OK for businesses to use the free-market defense when they export jobs, but it's not a fair argument when seniors and persons with disabilities want to negotiate for lower-priced prescription drugs."
Barbara Taylor in Reno, Nevada, "Lou, the Bush administration says they are creating many new jobs. Wow! They just didn't tell us that they were all in foreign countries."
We love hearing your thoughts. Send them to us at loudobs@cnn.com. Please send your name and address. Each of you whose e-mail is read on the broadcast receives a free copy of my new book, "Exporting America."
Still ahead here tonight, Democracy at Risk. Why some experts are now predicting nothing short of an election nightmare in at least one battleground state. Ohio's secretary of state, Ken Blackwell, says they are wrong. He is my guest next.
And then, outrage after radical Islamist terrorists brutally murder a British hostage captured in Iraq. We'll have that story and the very latest on the radical Islamist bombings of three Egyptian resort towns.
And our feature series, Heroes. Tonight, how one New York man is helping to support American men and women wounded in battle. Amazingly, he says he's no hero. We'll have his inspiring story here tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a good idea if you acted on it and put in some hard work, but that's far from being a hero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Tonight, a new election lawsuit in the State of Florida.
The state's Democratic Party is suing Secretary of State Glenda Hood, accusing her of breaking federal law. They're challenging Hood's order to election officials in Florida's 67 counties to reject any incomplete voter registration forms. The Democrats say that includes forms where voters fail to check a box stating that they are a United States citizen, even though they sign a different part of the same form vowing they are a U.S. citizen.
A federal judge today refused to order Hood to change her instructions. Some county officials say they don't plan to follow Hood's orders at all. Where that leaves us is anybody's guess.
My next guest is another secretary of state in a battleground state. He was being criticized as well by Democrats. Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell recently rescinded an order that would have allowed only a certain type of paper for voter registration cards. Still, his critics say he has created widespread voter confusion.
Ken Blackwell, as Ohio's top election official, also the head of the Bush-Cheney campaign in that state, joining us tonight from Cincinnati.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Secretary.
KENNETH BLACKWELL, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, first of all, Ohio is shaping up as a battleground state in more ways than one, certainly. Obviously, politically in the contest between the president and Senator Kerry, but, also, in -- on terms of provisional ballots being provided, the weight of paper stock, electronic voting. You have more than enough challenges, it seems, on your hands.
BLACKWELL: Well, Ohio election professionals always come through. We are known as one of the most professional election administrations in the country. Many of the things that we've done for years are, in fact, standards that are now being used nationwide.
Let's take provisional ballots, for example. Ohio's had provisional ballots for over a decade, and we have done just...
DOBBS: We should explain -- excuse me. -- a provisional... BLACKWELL: OK. A provisional ballot.
DOBBS: Go ahead.
BLACKWELL: A provisional ballot is simply a ballot that's given to a voter who declares that he or she is registered but does not show up on the roles.
In the State of Ohio, we say that that voter who claims to be registered deserves a provisional ballot until his claim can be checked out and validated. That means that the person can vote at one of three places, the precinct in which his or her address is located, the board of elections or a regional center that is designated by the board of elections. So there are three options for an Ohio voter with a provisional ballot.
The question here and the controversy is that I have, in fact, said we will uphold Ohio law, which is consistent with federal law, which says that you must vote in the precinct in which you live, if you choose to vote in a precinct.
DOBBS: And the Democrats have sued you as a result.
BLACKWELL: Oh, absolutely. And -- but what's so interesting here, Lou, is that our law is the same as that in 27 other states -- New York, Texas. Nobody is bringing suit there, perhaps because they are not a battleground state.
We have this issue before a U.S. federal -- a federal judge in district court. I anticipate that he will make a ruling within the next -- the next ten days, and we will all abide by the rule of law in the state of Ohio.
DOBBS: One would certainly hope that they would expedite this case.
BLACKWELL: Absolutely.
DOBBS: As you know, you are being called in many quarters the 2004 Katherine Harris because of the potential problems.
Let me read to you, we have received this statement from the Ohio Senate Minority Caucus, which says -- it's Democratic Party from State Senator Mark Mallory. Saying, "The Ohio Secretary of State is creating barriers to voting when he should be removing them. Congress passed the Help America Vote Act to avoid a repeat of the Florida 2000 election."
BLACKWELL: Well, first, Lou, let me just say, last time I checked, I was very comfortable in my masculinity and I'm not looking for a sex change.
Now, in terms of Senator Mark Mallory, that is a disingenuous claim. In May of 2003, he was a member of a bipartisan committee that reviewed Ohio's election law to see if they were in compliance with HAVA. That committee voted unanimously...
DOBBS: The Help America...
BLACKWELL: The Help America Vote Act. Right.
He in fact was among the committee members that unanimously voted that our provisional ballot laws were in compliance with HAVA or the Help America Vote Act.
DOBBS: Are you...
BLACKWELL: So for him now to claim that this is a barrier is a bit baffling to most people who have common sense and have a dimension of reasonableness to their thinking.
DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, you're also, I would assume, concerned about what a number of other people are saying within the community, within the state of Ohio, and that is you're putting up unreasonable barriers to lower-income people who may have some difficulty in meeting all of this.
BLACKWELL: Lou -- Lou, let's go back. Again, listen to what I'm saying. This is the provision...
DOBBS: I'll try hard.
BLACKWELL: This is the provisional ballot law that has been in place in Ohio for 10 years. This is the provisional ballot practice...
DOBBS: OK.
BLACKWELL: ... that was used in the primary in May...
DOBBS: So you're not concerned...
BLACKWELL: ... of this year.
DOBBS: You're not concerned that this is creating an artificial barrier at all?
BLACKWELL: How is it a barrier, Lou?
DOBBS: Well, I'm asking you. I'm asking you, Mr. Secretary.
BLACKWELL: Lou -- Lou, I just told you...
DOBBS: We're going to have to run. I just need a real straight -- straight and simple statement.
BLACKWELL: I gave you...
DOBBS: Are you concerned or are you not, yes or no?
BLACKWELL: I gave you a straight and simple answer. Anybody who has a provisional ballot in Ohio can vote that ballot in the three places located -- that are identified in the law.
DOBBS: So you are -- so you are concerned that it may be a barrier or are you not?
BLACKWELL: No, it is not a barrier.
DOBBS: That's all I ask, Mr. Secretary.
BLACKWELL: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: It looks to me like you're going to have a lot of support in enforcing those rules and interpreting them.
BLACKWELL: We sure are.
DOBBS: Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, state of Ohio. Thanks for being here. Good luck.
BLACKWELL: Good to be with you. Three-fifths of the states use that same standard.
DOBBS: Turning to overseas' issues and developments, and they are difficult and serious developments.
Israel today blaming al Qaeda for three deadly bomb attacks in Egyptian holiday resorts last night. At least 29 people have been confirmed dead, many of them Israelis vacationing in Egypt. More than 30 people are still unaccounted for.
The worst attack in Taba. That blast destroyed part of a Hilton Hotel in Iraq.
Radical Islamist terrorists have cut off of the head of hostage Kenneth Bigley. U.S. officials say Bigley was beheaded after an unsuccessful escape attempt.
Bigley and two Americans were kidnapped in Baghdad three weeks ago. All of them are now dead.
Elsewhere in Iraq, American aircraft launched another air strike against a suspected insurgent safe house in Fallujah. Local officials say at least 14 people were killed in the attacks.
And in northern Iraq, an American soldier has been killed near Kirkuk.
In "Heroes" tonight, one man's remarkable journey to support the wounded troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. Chris Carney may not be in the armed forces, but he is, nonetheless, a hero to thousands and thousands of troops and their families.
Peter Viles has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sitting right here. CHRIS CARNEY, CYCLIST: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you're going to do is go up here...
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chris Carney is getting directions from a local sheriff's deputy. It's the last day of his cross-country bicycle ride to raise money and awareness for the Wounded Warrior Project.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it possible to come around?
VILES: Carney is 34, a Long Island bartender, and he never served in the military. But he left home almost two months ago, traveled more than 4,000 miles through 13 states. Today, the final stretch.
Carney is riding with some of those wounded warriors he wants to help. The ride has raised half a million dollars from mostly individual donors to provide backpacks filled with necessities like shaving kits, clothing and CD players for wounded soldiers arriving back in the United States.
CARNEY: We can harness the way everyone feels. We can harness all the thoughts and prayers, and we support the troops in one, you know, specific effort. We can seriously make a difference and seriously help them out.
VILES: As the sun sets on the Pacific Ocean, Carney reaches his goal...
CARNEY: Whoa!
VILES: ... and the celebration begins.
(MUSIC)
VILES: John Melia is the founder of the Wounded Warrior Project.
JOHN MELIA, FOUNDER, WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT: Over 7,000 military service members have been wounded in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we've been able to help most of the in-patients who've -- who've been in the military hospitals around the country.
MAX TADLOCK, MILITARY ORDER OF THE PURPLE HEART: Bunch of fine young men, dedicated, done a good job.
RYAN KELLY, VETERAN: He's really -- in the eyes of wounded vets, he's one our heroes.
CARNEY: I just rode a bike, and I mean, maybe I'm a guy who had a good idea and who acted on it and put in some hard work. But that's far from being a hero, you know?
I had a good idea and did some hard work and -- for heroes, if anything. VILES: After a week's vacation, Carney plans to go back to tending bar. He says he'll keep working for the Wounded Warrior Project until all the injured soldiers get the help they need, a transition to a normal life.
Peter Viles, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And to learn more about how you help the Wounded Warriors, just go to our web site, LouDobbs@CNN.com. Or LouDobbs.com, either one. That will get you to the right information to help this very worthwhile organization to support our heroes.
Still ahead here tonight, where have the jobs gone? For over two decades, a large number of American jobs have been going overseas. Tonight, we focus on one destination, the Philippines.
We'll have that report, and why, why our government is still not equipped to do anything about the rising outsourcing crisis? Why information that should be readily available is indeed not.
Congressman John Dingell of Michigan is among those who want answers, and he is among those fighting to change all of that. He's our guest.
And three of the country's top political journalists will be here to tell us what we can expect in the upcoming presidential presentation now, just over two hours away. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This week, we've turned our to our reporters around the world to take you to all of the places that American jobs are being shipped.
The Philippines is one of those destinations. It has an abundance of highly educated cheap labor that will work for a fraction of the wages of American counterparts.
Maria Ressa has the story from Manila.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA RESSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's noon in New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, thank you very much. We appreciate that.
RESSA: But midnight in Manila, where your U.S. call has been routed by companies like AOL, American Express and Citibank.
Etelecare is the largest Asia-based call center company, servicing Fortune 500 companies. DEREK HOLLEY, PRESIDENT, ETELECARE: There's no question the accents and communication skills are better in the Philippines when it comes to English than anywhere else in the world outside of the U.S.
RESSA: A compelling reason? Labor is cheaper here.
(on camera) You've already heard about the low costs. The starting salaries here average about $300 a month, roughly a fifth of their American counterparts.
But Etelecare says it goes one step beyond those low costs, emphasizing superior performance.
(voice-over) The founders say it's like hiring Princeton and Harvard graduates to man their phones. Partly because of a 13 percent unemployment rate, companies like this have their pick of the best of Manila's top universities.
But outsourcing in the Philippines is not new. It began 20 years ago, sparked by the U.S. bases, once this country's top dollar earner, the remnants of half a century the Philippines spent as an American colony.
The government estimates the call center industry will generate up to $800 million in revenues this year. And it wants to lure more American investors. Incentives like tax holiday, reinstating English as the language of instructions in schools nationwide and deregulating to encourage infrastructure development.
Etelecare recently bought an American company and continues to grow in both Asia and the U.S. For the past four years, it's won the world's best outsourcer award at the largest industry trade show in the U.S. That, plus the bottom line, explain the allure of outsourcing here.
Maria Ressa, CNN, Manila.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Government work as well as flooding to cheap foreign labor markets at a staggering rate.
My next guest commissioned the report, along with four of his colleagues. Congressman John Dingell of Michigan asking what is unacceptable is that our government is still completely unprepared to deal with the exporting of American jobs?
The commerce and labor departments can't even track the trends, he says. And that was born out in the latest GAO report.
Congressman Dingell joins me tonight from Capitol Hill.
Good to have you here.
REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: Delighted to be here, Lou. Thank you. DOBBS: You -- You and several others, Congressman, have asked Commerce Secretary Don Evans to at least respond to you on the issue finding out how many jobs precisely and comprehensibly are being lost to outsourcing.
What is the likelihood in your judgment of a response?
DINGELL: Well, we hope we'll get a response, and we hope we get a good response.
The GAO study tells us that, first of all, we don't know where these jobs are going, how many of them are leaving, and what are the circumstances and conditions? How you address the problems in the American economy without knowing these facts is, of course, is a very difficult question to answer.
DOBBS: A difficult question to answer, and as you point out, government is accelerating its outsourcing of jobs. Do you have any hope at all that at least that, the federal government can be constrained in its outsourcing?
DINGELL: Well, Congresswoman Delauro, Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin and a number of us on the Hill, including myself, have introduced legislation to ban the outsourcing of jobs for government purposes abroad.
There has been a jump in -- just in federal government practices in this area in about a year of 64 percent. And of course, University of California's estimates that we can see 14 million American jobs going overseas in the next few years. The situation's very serious.
Interestingly enough, the legislation would also ban moving of state jobs, which are financed by or participated in federal government programs overseas. The states are doing exactly the same thing. With a large number of questions that rise.
First, protection of American privacy. Second of all, protection of American security, because some of these jobs -- some of these jobs are using information which is defense oriented.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Congressman John Dingell, we're out of time, but I want to say thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it and good talking to you, as always.
DINGELL: Lou, thank you for what you're doing here.
DOBBS: Congressman John Dingell, thank you.
Still ahead here tonight, round two of the so-called presidential debates. The candidates preparing to answer real questions from real voters. We'll have a preview. Three of the country's top political journalists assess what lies ahead.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: In just a little over two hours, the presidential candidates will be beginning their second so-called debate.
Joining me now, three of the country's very best political journalists: Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent, "TIME" magazine; Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent, "L.A. Times"; in St. Louis, Roger Simon, political editor, "U.S. News & World Report."
Let's begin first, and Karen, I'll begin with you, 96,000 jobs created in the last month. That's got to be a huge disappointment to the Bush administration, no matter the spin.
How important is that number in tonight's debate?
KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, I think you're going to hear it probably more than a few times in tonight's debate.
This is the last jobs report we're going to get before the election. These first Fridays have been problems for the Republicans all the way through this campaign. And this, of course, is the first debate where we're going to see these two guys questioned on domestic issues.
So yes, you're going to hear that number a few times.
DOBBS: And, Ron, tomorrow the elections in Afghanistan. At least in the Afghanistan, there is a basis for the Bush administration to claim success.
How important do you -- do you expect it to be important at all in tonight's debate?
RON BROWNSTEIN, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "L.A. TIMES": I think it will be brought up by the president. He has cited, I believe even in advertising, if I remember correctly.
Obviously, there is dispute about to the extent the central government is really controlling the entire country even amidst this election process, but it is something that the president, I think, will tout.
In the end, though, right now American troops are under more danger in Iraq and that clearly is a more significant issue in the campaign.
DOBBS: And, Roger, the latest poll, or the "TIME" magazine poll in point in fact, has both Bush and Kerry nearly in a dead heat. Nearly every recent poll has shown this race incredibly tight.
How important is tonight's debate, so-called, for both of these men?
ROGER SIMON, POLITICAL EDITOR, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": I think it's extremely important. I think there's almost a universal feeling here in the room among Democrats, Republicans, and journalists that this is really almost can do or die for George Bush.
He wouldn't literally be out of it if he had another poor performance here, but he certainly has to dig himself out of the hole he dug himself in in Coral Gables.
He has to do better, better both on performance points and substance points. I don't think we're going to hear tonight 12 times that Iraq is hard work. I think he has to come up with better lines than that.
DOBBS: Karen, we've heard tonight on this broadcast from Ed Gillespie, the head of the RNC, Terry McAuliffe, the head of the DNC. These two men were very engaged, unlike I've ever seen them, frankly, in all the time that they've been contesting one another.
Is there a sense that this is going to be a far more energetic exchange there than anything that we've seen?
TUMULTY: Well, you can certainly assume that by what the two men have been saying on the campaign trail this week. We've heard some of the toughest rhetoric of this entire campaign in their speeches.
And watch carefully, too, for messages that are targeted toward women. Because one of the most important numbers underlying our poll that was just released this afternoon suggests that where President Bush had pulled even with John Kerry before the last debate among women, traditionally a Democratic constituency, John Kerry has once again broken out a very big lead among female voters.
DOBBS: Go ahead, Ron.
BROWNSTEIN: Can I do this very quickly? Town hall debates aren't always the best place for sharp elbows, though. I mean, historically, it's been tough to be very confrontational in the town hall debates.
Sometimes voters will get up early on and ask the candidates not to bicker or to talk about the issues without attacking each other. They can sort of restrain that kind of behavior. The questions don't always lend itself to it.
I do agree with Karen that they have been on a collision course this week. The president had a very aggressive new stump speech, designed to shift the onus and the focus back to Senator Kerry.
But the news of the last 48 hours, first the Iraq Survey Group report and now the job numbers, are shifting, again, the attention back to his performance. And as I said, I think on that front, we have a much more closely divided country.
DOBBS: Far more difficult for President Bush to alter the campaign to a referendum on Senator Kerry, Roger?
SIMON: Yes. In this debate, the moderator is going to be even more important than the past debates. He gets to choose all the questions asked by the people. There are about 140 people in the room, but you're only going to hear between 20 and 40 questions. And Charlie Gibson, a very able newsperson, is going to do the selecting of what those questions are.
Sometimes the debate -- the questions can be very narrow. You know, "I've lost my job and my husband is ill." But sometimes it can be surprisingly tough, surprisingly focused and surprisingly difficult to handle.
DOBBS: It seems it me you have described, just then, a very tough question for anyone to handle.
Roger, Karen, Ron, I want to talk to you about the lawsuits that have been filed now in Florida. Election lawsuits in Florida and Ohio and a great deal more in this campaign.
We're going to be right back with our panel in just a moment. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Roger, I want to turn first, if I may, to you.
Lawsuits already in Ohio, lawsuits in Florida, challenging the election officials there. Is this just the beginning of a great deal of lawsuits to come?
SIMON: I'm afraid so. I think no one wants to see this time what happened four years ago, that this election is handled by -- is determined by lawyers arguing in front of judges to see who really won.
But all that money which Congress appropriated to fix the election system in the United States hasn't done much of a fixing, and once again we are facing the possibility of having elections even without written records this time where we can go back and recount the vote if we need to.
TUMULTY: Hey, look.
DOBBS: Yes, go ahead.
TUMULTY: This election is a full employment act for lawyers. In Columbus, Ohio, alone, the Democratic Party is going to have 200 lawyers standing by at 200 different polling places.
I think there's a very real possibility that if this race stays close, it could well go into overtime, just like it did in 2000.
BROWNSTEIN: And in fact that is the key condition, though, Lou. You know, we not only have all the objective questions about the election systems. We have the reality that this is a very -- converging again into a very close race.
I think it's really that that is the prerequisite to the kind of lengthy battles that we're talking about. If one candidate pulls away, it may be somewhat moot. But if it is as close as it now looks, as we saw in 2000, you can bet the parties are going to use every means at their disposal to fight it.
DOBBS: And with registration rising to most cases record levels here in every state, battleground state.
Quickly, we have less than a minute. Ralph Nader, he has succeeded in a lot of places. Is he going to have a significant influence on the outcome, Roger?
SIMON: I don't think so. I mean, he didn't do all that well last time; and this time, I think many Americans are much more sensitive to the fact that you can waste a vote. You can cast a protest vote, but it can do a lot of damage, and I think that will damage Nader.
DOBBS: Ron?
BROWNSTEIN: His vote will be down. But it depends again, if it's achingly close, every vote matters.
DOBBS: Karen, you get the last word.
TUMULTY: Look, considering how much money he's raising from Republicans, they clearly think he can have an impact.
DOBBS: Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein, Roger Simon, thank you all as we look ahead to tonight's presidential presentation.
Still ahead, the results of our poll and stay tuned for our live coverage of the second presidential presentation, tonight from Washington University in St. Louis. Coming up with our beginning coverage, led off by Anderson Cooper in just a few minutes, right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of our poll tonight.
Ninety-two percent of you say your personal economy is worse than the government statistics that we are reporting each day, it seems, in this country. Not many undecideds, I believe, watching this broadcast.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us, as well, Monday. John Fund, author of "Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy," will be our guest, among others. Please join us.
For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next, live from Washington University in St. Louis.
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