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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush Accuses Kerry of Making Wild Charges; Interview with Kinky Friedman; Election Lawyers Contest Legitimacy Of Many Ohio Voters
Aired October 27, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Six days to go. President Bush and Senator Kerry trading charges today in the escalating controversy over missing explosives in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN K. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we're seeing is a White House that is dodging and bobbing and weaving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Senator's denigrating the action of our troops and commanders in the field.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Billionaire George Soros is my guest today. He's spending millions of his money to try to defeat President Bush. George Soros and I will talk about why he hates President Bush so much.
I'll be talking with former Reagan White House chief of staff Ken Duberstein about why he likes President Bush so much.
Three million illegal aliens will enter the country this year, nothing less than an invasion, and a new study says illegal aliens and legal immigrations have combined to take many of the jobs created over the past four years.
And will your vote count this year? Attorneys are already fighting over voting problems in swing states including Ohio. Tonight, I'll be joined by the top Republican and Democratic field generals in the ground war in Ohio to talk about what appears to be an election that's too close to call and one that may be litigated to conclusion.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, October 27. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush today accused Senator Kerry of making wild charges in the increasingly bitter argument over missing explosives in Iraq. President Bush said Senator Kerry jumped to conclusions before Senator Kerry knew all the facts. President Bush campaigning in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan today.
Dana Bash reports now from Pontiac, Michigan. Frank Buckley is covering the Kerry campaign. He's now in Rochester, Minnesota. And Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon official, from Washington tonight.
We begin with Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it was abundantly clear to Bush campaign aides that Senator Kerry was going to keep pointing to these missing explosives as a key reason, a key example of Bush incompetence in Iraq. So, after initially resisting, the president engaged.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): After ignoring reporters' questions a day earlier about missing Iraq explosives, the president finally responded.
BUSH: Our military is now investigating a number of possible scenarios, including that the explosives may have been moved before our troops even arrived at the site.
BASH: Under growing pressure, Mr. Bush abandoned past practice of ignoring his opponent's attacks, saying John Kerry's "wild charges the president's to blame for explosives gone missing" are based on fuzzy facts.
BUSH: This investigation is important, and it's ongoing, and a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief.
BASH: Bush aides insist the president's not back on his heels. They spin this unusually stark defense as offense, that calling Senator Kerry someone who will say anything to get elected works to their advantage. But Kerry aides say they scored a win by forcing the president to explain and defend the situation in Iraq six days before the election.
Bush officials still claim talking about national security benefits them.
BUSH: If you are a Democrat who wants America to lead with strength and idealism, I would be honored to have your vote.
BASH: Security is one of the issues the president used to appeal to conservative Democrats in rural Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. With Zell Miller at his side, Mr. Bush is trying to win this state and Ohio with a straightforward pitch. From education to abortion to gay marriage, the president said he's more in line with the values of rural Democrats than John Kerry.
BUSH: My opponent is running away from some of the great traditions of the Democrat Party.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BASH: The president's aides want to change the subject. They are resigned to the fact that they are going to be responding to Senator Kerry's attacks on the missing explosives in these final days, but Bush aides insist that if voters are going to go to the ballot box based on Iraq, they probably already made up their mind -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Dana Bash reporting from Michigan, a battleground state now, and it's simply too close to call.
Senator Kerry today declared President Bush has been trying to avoid taking any responsibility for those missing explosives. The senator today campaigned in Iowa and Minnesota. Frank Buckley now has the report from Rochester, Minnesota.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senator John Kerry rallied supporters in Rochester, Minnesota, and railed against President Bush for the third straight day on the missing explosives in Iraq.
KERRY: Mr. President, for the sake of our brave men and women in uniform, for the sake of those troops who are in danger because of your wrong decisions, you owe America real answers about what happened, not just political attacks.
BUCKLEY: Kerry referring to President Bush's answer to Kerry's continuing criticism. Bush suggesting the senator was denigrating the troops on the ground.
Senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart was quick to respond with a statement. "For a commander in chief to sidestep these important questions and to somehow imply that John Kerry does anything less than fully support our troops is beneath contempt."
ANNOUNCER: Our soldiers fighting in Iraq, our heroes.
BUCKLEY: The campaign also went up with a new ad on cable in battleground states to make sure Kerry wasn't misunderstood.
ANNOUNCER: We will always support and honor those who serve.
BUCKLEY: The ad echoing Kerry's praise of the troops at rallies.
KERRY: Our troops are doing a heroic job. The president, the commander in chief, is not doing his job.
BUCKLEY: Kerry left Rochester bound for Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Earlier he had campaigned in Sioux City. The visits to the Hawkeye State on the same day an indication of how tight the race is in a state that went to Al Gore by a mere 4,100 votes in 2000.
A new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows Mr. Bush with the support of 50 percent of likely voters compared to 46 percent for Mr. Kerry. Among registered voters, it's 47 percent to 48 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And here in the final stretch of the campaign, Lou, the idea is to have rallies like the one we saw here in Minnesota to get out their supporters, to get out the supporters of each one of these candidates, bring celebrities out, do whatever you have to do to generate excitement to get your supporters to the polls.
Tomorrow, the tour of battleground states for Senator Kerry continues in Wisconsin and Ohio, before Senator Kerry moves on to the mother of all battleground states, Florida, where he'll spend the entire day Friday campaigning -- Lou.
DOBBS: I think this year, Frank, it's safe to say there are a lot of mothers, as you put it, among the battleground states. Gore -- Vice President Gore won Iowa by 5 percentage points in 2000. Across the board in these battleground states, neither campaign is, obviously, comfortable with their positions right now in the polls. What is the campaign saying?
BUCKLEY: Well, they -- really this close to the election, the polls are -- especially the national polling, the Kerry campaign folks would say, look, the national polling is really not relevant.
What is relevant is the individual looks, the individual battleground states, and they believe in these battleground states that they are actually doing better. But, clearly, some of the strategy suggests that they are concerned about states like Iowa where Al Gore won by just 4,100 votes in 2000.
They know it's a tight race there. So they're having to go to some of these states that were blue in 2000 to make sure -- or at least to try to make sure that they stay blue this year as well.
DOBBS: Frank Buckley.
Thank you very much.
The Pentagon today released new information about the dates American troops and special search teams arrived at the Iraqi storage facility from which those 350 metric tons of high explosives are missing. Pentagon officials say Iraqis likely removed those explosives long before the first soldiers -- American soldiers arrived at the site.
Our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, today, the Pentagon said that it believes that soldiers from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division were the first to show up at the Al-Qaqaa facility on April 3, 2003.
According to their commander, the U.S. soldiers just thought it was another of dozens of Iraqi ammo dumps they encountered on their way to Baghdad. They knew nothing about the tons of high explosives that the IAEA said were there, much less having any orders to look for the stockpile.
But the Pentagon says it still believes the missing stockpile was gone, dispersed by Saddam Hussein or perhaps his followers, and to back up its case today, it came up with one of the commanders who was there at the time who doubted the material could have been stolen after the U.S. troops arrived in April.
Colonel David Perkins, commander of the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Division, said that it would be almost impossible to do, he said. The one main road was packed for weeks bumper to bumper with U.S. convoys pushing toward Baghdad.
Perkins said, "It would be highly improbable that somehow, somebody, the enemy, puts together this convoy of trucks and sneaks them in and loads them up in the dark of night."
But, Lou, arms-control experts are still skeptical of the Pentagon's account. They say it is not all that impossible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID KAY, FORMER CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I also don't find it hard to believe that looters could carry it off in the dead of night or during the day and not use the road network.
I saw many Iraqi facilities in which they came by pick-up truck and constantly -- it's amazing to see whole buildings disappear at the hands of looters who are not organized, who do not have heavy equipment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Experts like David Kay also question why the Pentagon would not have seen the movement of these supplies along that one main road that goes out of there prior to the invasion, if that's really what happened, and the Pentagon right now is searching for overhead imagery from satellites or spy planes that they hope will back up their contention that they believe the stuff was moved before the U.S. got there -- Lou.
DOBBS: Three days into this story, Jamie, and we are still struggling for lots of answers to lots of unanswered questions. Is the Pentagon saying anything beyond this in terms of why in the world there weren't strikes carried out against this if there was full knowledge, as apparently there was, that HMX and RDX and other explosives were there? Why not strike it? Why not get rid of it?
MCINTYRE: Well, it's not clear that the facility wasn't struck. In fact, some of the satellite imagery after the war seemed to indicate that there had been some explosions at some of the buildings.
That's one of the things that the Pentagon is now doing an exhaustive review, to try to figure out what actually happened there and what imagery or other documentation they might have to back it up. DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
And lots more on this story to come.
Still ahead here, Yasser Arafat tonight is in critical condition. We'll have the very latest for you.
And the Republican and Democratic field generals in the ground war in Ohio Face Off here tonight. Ohio, of course, one of the very most critical swing states in this election.
All of that and a great deal more still ahead here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: An astonishing assault today on Congresswoman Katherine Harris as she campaigned in Sarasota, Florida. Police say the driver of a silver Cadillac swerved off the road, headed straight toward Harris, and swerved away at the last moment. No one was injured in the encounter.
Police officers traced the car to a local resident by the name of Barry Seltzer. He says he was trying to intimidate the former Florida secretary of state of Campaign 2000 fame. Seltzer said he was simply exercising his rights of "political expression." Police officers arrested him and charged him with aggravated assault.
Malfunctioning voting machines, missing ballots, legal battles, outright fraud all threatening the integrity of our voting system this year. Every day, there are new reports of voting irregularities and problems in states all across the country.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Broward County, Florida, long early voting lines. Some of those waiting here had planned to vote absentee, but the ballots never came in the mail. The U.S. Postal Service inspector is investigating the disappearance of 58,000 absentee ballots sent out between October 7 and 8.
This voter is among those who didn't receive her ballot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. It makes me feel like in a way we live in a Third World country, that like there's all this uproar about -- people are voting. It's important, and the system is flawed, and all the -- the importance of the election is pointing out the flaws in our system.
SYLVESTER: In another battleground state, Ohio, 35,000 voter registrations are being disputed. Republicans say those voters should be ineligible to vote because their confirmation cards were returned in the mail. But Democrats have filed a lawsuit to block the Republican challenge.
If it all sounds confusing, imagine how it is for the voters.
SHARON MCGRAW, LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, CLEVELAND; We are hearing from voters who are frustrated. They're scared. They're discouraged. It's frightening to watch. By the end of the day, after getting hundreds of calls from people, it's sad. It's just very sad to see our process decaying.
SYLVESTER: In Georgia, early voting came to a near standstill after a technical glitch. Election workers could not access a voter database for hours.
And legal battles are being fought in Michigan, Iowa and Ohio over how provisional ballots should be counted, just one issue that could easily land before the U.S. Supreme Court.
DAN SELIGSON, ELECTIONLINE.ORG: They're using the courts to try and get some voters off the rolls, add voters to others, change the way provisional voting is handled, change what kind of machines are used and where. So we're seeing the courts used just really in an unprecedented way.
SYLVESTER: Poll workers will have to contend with not only the new rules on Election Day, but also a record number of voters expected to turn out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And that's another problem. The Federal Election Assistance Commission estimates precincts around the country have fallen about half a million short of the two million poll workers that are needed for next week's election -- Lou.
DOBBS: So just a half million people to find between now and Election Day.
Lisa, thank you.
Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
President Bush today picked up a key endorsement from Hispanic groups. The board of directors of the Latino Coalition and more than 20 other Hispanic organizations from all over the country have given their endorsement to President Bush.
The vice chairman of the coalition says, "President Bush knows and understands the Hispanic community better than any other president before him."
Coming up next, Yasser Arafat's health is deteriorating. He is, we are told, in critical condition tonight. I'll be talking with a leading adviser to the Palestinian Authority. We'll be going to Ramallah for the latest on Arafat's condition.
And then, troubling new information on the impact of immigration and illegal aliens on this country's job market. Millions of jobs have been created, many of them not for American citizens.
And our Democracy at Risk. This time, Ohio could be the center of a national election controversy. I'll be joined by the top Republican and Democratic leaders in the ground war for Ohio's 200 electoral votes, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Jobs and the economy have been a major focus of this campaign. Now a new study suggests that millions of people who have found work over the past four years are not always Americans. Half of those people who have found jobs over the past four years are illegal aliens.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Immigration may not be a big issue in this election campaign, but the loss of American jobs is. Now comes a new study showing the two are closely linked.
The Center for Immigration Studies examined census data and found that, between 2000 and 2004, the number of unemployed native-born American adults rose by 2.3 million, while the number of working immigrants, legal and illegal, increased by the same amount.
STEVE CAMAROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: While it would be a mistake to assume that there is a one-for-one relationship between immigrant employment gains and native losses, it is clear that the number of immigrants with jobs increased dramatically at the same time as the number of natives without a job but who were looking for it increased dramatically.
WIAN: And the trend is accelerating. Of the estimated 900,000 jobs the economy added between March 2003 and 2004, two-thirds went to immigrants, even though they only make up 15 percent of the population.
While not disputing the study's figures, one prominent economist takes issue with the implication that immigrants are taking jobs from native workers.
JAMES SMITH, RAND CORP.: Well, the reason that there are job losses is we've had a recession, and older workers leave the labor force. The main group who's leaving the labor force are older workers who are retiring. Most of them are native-born workers.
WIAN: The report also found that illegal aliens are responsible for about half of the immigrant job gains. It also refutes much of the conventional wisdom about illegal aliens in the labor force, specifically the argument that they're mostly doing jobs Americans won't do.
In job categories, such as agriculture, building maintenance, construction and food preparation, native-born Americans still hold the majority of jobs, but they're rapidly losing them to immigrants.
(on camera): Finally, the study found that states with the largest influx of immigrants also had the greatest number of job losses among native workers, and it calls into question the wisdom of guest worker or amnesty proposals favored by both presidential candidates.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next here, Yasser Arafat is apparently critically ill. I'll be talk with a leading adviser to the Palestinian Authority about Arafat's condition tonight and what his illness means for the future of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
Also, charges of fraud, corruption, voter intimidations. The battle for president that is raging now in Ohio. We'll hear from both political parties in tonight's Face Off.
He was President Reagan's chief of staff. Ken Duberstein is a top Republican strategist working hard now to reelect President Bush. He'll be my guest.
And joining me tonight as well, billionaire George Soros. He's working hard and spending millions of his own money to push President Bush out of the Oval Office.
I'll be talking with both gentlemen here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: With 20 electoral votes at stake and a race still too close to call, the battle for Ohio has become one of the most contentious races. Hundreds of attorneys have already been sent to Ohio to defend their party and voters supporting their parties during this election.
One legal battle is already underway, however. Thousands of registration confirmation cards in Ohio have been returned as undeliverable. The GOP says many of those return cards were submitted by groups supporting the Democratic Party. Democrats, meanwhile, say the Republicans are trying to intimidate honest voters.
That debate brings us to tonight's Face Off. Our guests, David Sullivan -- he is the coordinator for voter protection for Ohio Democrats -- and Robert Bennett -- he's the chairman of Ohio's Republican Party. Both join us tonight from Columbus, Ohio.
Thank you for being here.
David Sullivan, let me ask you, first of all, the talk about more people being registered than live in various counties in Ohio. This issue on voter registration confirmation cards being returned, what in the world is going on in your state?
DAVID SULLIVAN, VOTER PROTECTION, OHIO DEMOCRATS: Well, I think the main thing that's going on is that a lot of people are really being mobilized to vote for the first time, and we think that's a wonderful thing.
Hundreds of thousands of new voters all over the state trying to participate in our election for the first time in their lives. I think that's tremendous.
Now, certainly, whenever you get that many people registering to vote, there are going to be a few incorrect registrations. We certainly don't tolerate that. We want to see correct information about that brought to the attention of boards of elections.
But the scare tactics being used by the Republican Party, which is going after 35,000 people all over the state just because a piece of mail got returned that was mailed to them, that's unconscionable.
DOBBS: Why is that -- let me ask you. Why is that unconscionable because if, point in fact, the authorities don't know what's going on there and officials don't know what's going on, why shouldn't it be checked out thoroughly?
SULLIVAN: It should be checked out thoroughly, but the way that it's being done by the Republicans is unacceptable. What they've done is to file a challenge under the penalty of election falsification signed by somebody who claims that they have direct evidence that somebody is not, in fact, eligible to vote, and the vast majority of those are completely false.
We've been getting calls over the last few days from military personnel. We got an e-mail from somebody on the USS Kittyhawk who was objected to, and he is outraged. He's a sailor defending his country, and here he is being attacked for being an illegal voter.
We've had calls from Republicans who are wrongly being challenged, people in the military, Republicans, ordinary citizens who are being harassed just for exercising their right to vote.
DOBBS: Robert Bennett, what are the Republicans doing there in Ohio?
ROBERT BENNETT: CHAIRMAN, OHIO REPUBLICAN PARTY: Well, let me say this, is David Sullivan is absolutely correct that in some of those pre-challenges, you're going to pick up some people that are legitimate voters.
The fact of the matter is that the Ohio Republican Party sent out over 200,000 letters to newly registered voters in Ohio welcoming to the ranks of voters in Ohio, and we had an unprecedented number of those returned by the post office that were undeliverable, and, in many cases, the voters were marked deceased, unknown at this address, not at this address.
DOBBS: All right. Now how many... BENNETT: Normally, we would get...
DOBBS: Excuse me for interrupting. How many did you send out?
BENNETT: We sent out over 230,000.
DOBBS: And how many of them were returned?
BENNETT: Fourteen percent of them.
DOBBS: That's where I was going. I was trying to get the percent. And typically what would be the percent that you would expect to...
BENNETT: Typically, we would expect somewhere around 1 percent, a little under 1 percent that would be returned to us for one reason or another.
DOBBS: Did you send...
BENNETT: We...
DOBBS: Did you send this mailing specifically to see what would happen with those returns?
BENNETT: No, we didn't. We mailed it in a variety of counties. To all newly registered voters we tried to capture as many of them from January 1 up to and through the end of August of this year. Many of these registrations were turned into the board's late.
Now, I will concede that there will be some voters on there, and David gave a good example of somebody that went into the service, moved away from their address after they registered to vote, they're certainly entitled to vote. Pre-challenges, under Ohio law, can be filed with the individual boards of elections. We filed these in some 65 of 88 counties in Ohio.
Now, the reason that we did this, Lou...
DOBBS: I need you to wrap up here. We've got a lot to cover.
BENNETT: The reason we did this is very simple. And that was to avoid long lines on election day. The only one that is filing suits in Ohio about fraud is the Democrats and their allies.
DOBBS: Well, let's go back to David Sullivan. Republican Party contending there's fraud, putting volunteers at the polls on election day. You are contending that's suppression. Isn't it just simply to maintain, as Mr. Bennett says, integrity of the system?
SULLIVAN: Nobody is contesting their right to have challenges at the polls. All we're insisting on is if they object to somebody, that they have proof that somebody is not a legitimate voter. So far, we have yet to see any proof, aside from a few people, that people aren't legitimate. All we know is that a single piece of mail was not returned. And by the way, today, a federal judge ruled this whole process is unconstitutional as a matter of federal law, because these voters didn't have adequate notice. Judge DeLott, in Cincinnati, a federal judge, issued a temporary restraining order this afternoon prohibiting the boards of elections from considering any more of these challenges because she said it violated the constitutional rights of these voters. So, it is not just me saying this, it is a federal judge.
DOBBS: Are things going to get better, Mr. Bennett, between now and election day in Ohio?
BENNETT: First of all, I want to correct David. He is an attorney, so he knows that that was a temporary restraining order. And the judge is going to issue a final order tonight that's an appealable order.
Now, what we're trying to do and get done with all this entire process is have the individual boards of elections, who also receive these same mailings back to rule on this between now and election day.
DOBBS: We look forward to the ruling. I know you do, too. The voters of Ohio and both parties to get it sorted out. In other words, we are in for a contentious election day in Ohio, correct, gentlemen?
BENNETT: I think it will be smoother than what you think now.
SULLIVAN: I hope so, too. We're hoping for a good election day. And we'll be there to make sure everyone has the right to vote.
BENNETT: Absolutely.
DOBBS: All right. It still sounds contentious to me. David Sullivan, Robert Bennett, we thank you both gentlemen for being here.
BENNETT: Thank you.
DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. "Will you do your part to close ranks behind whomever is elected on November 2?" Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Now, returning to news today from the Middle East. The Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, is reportedly critically ill. You are right now watching a live picture of Arafat's compound in Ramallah on the West Bank where a team of Jordanian doctors have been summoned. They are at this hour treating Yasser Arafat.
Arafat's illness comes at a critical time, of course, in Middle East tensions. The Israeli parliament has just approved an Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, and a tiny portion of the West Bank.
The determination of Yasser Arafat's condition is being reported by the Israeli's at this point, and one aid to Arafat who described his condition as critical.
Joining me now from Washington, a leading adviser to the Palestinian authority, Ed Abington. He's a former U.S. consul in Jerusalem. And he talked with the senior aid to Yasser Arafat just a short time ago.
Ed, thanks for being here. Obviously, a lot of focus tonight on Yasser Arafat and his condition. Is it as serious as it appears to be?
ED ABINGTON, FRM. U.S. CONSUL IN JERUSALEM: I don't think he is really critically ill. He is definitely ill. I spoke to him yesterday for 10 or 15 minutes with Arafat. I asked how he was doing. He said he was feeling bad, but he thought he was getting better. He described his illness as a stomach virus or stomach flu.
When I talked to one of his aides today, about an hour ago, he was in the room with Arafat. He said it was not true that he was unconscious. He said doctors were there treating him, that Arafat was dehydrated. He had been fasting because of Ramadan. His doctors told him to stop fasting, to take liquids and so forth. And the doctors were going to make a determination whether Arafat should be moved to a hospital, or whether he could be treated in the compound.
But his senior associate told me that it was not true that Arafat was unconscious, or that he was at his death bed.
DOBBS: At this point, the summoning of the Jordanian doctors, the Israelis had given permission for Arafat to leave the compound for medical treatment. As you know, he did not accept that offer. Of course, he's been confined to the compound for what now, two and a half years?
ABINGTON: That's right.
DOBBS: At this point, there is no order of succession, really, in place for Arafat. Give us your best judgment on the implications of his condition tonight, the possibility that he would die as a result of -- if these other reports should be true of the critical nature of his illness. Where would that lead us?
ABINGTON: Well, he had a similar illness about a year ago and Egyptian doctors came on an emergency basis and treated him. But you know, that was then, now is now. It's hard to say exactly what the status of his health is.
There is a procedure whereby he would be replaced for a short period of time by the speaker of the Palestinian parliament and then elections would be held. But under the current conditions, I don't think anyone thinks it is possible to hold elections.
What is most likely is that the senior Palestinian leadership, people like Abu Mazen, Abu Alad (ph), Nabil Shaf (ph) and others would form a collective leadership and try to work through a process of selecting a new president of the Palestinian authority and a new head of the PLO. And that might take some period of time.
DOBBS: Ed Abington, thank you very much. Ed Abington's view, having talked to a senior aide, that his illness not life-threatening. That he is undergoing treatment for a stomach problem and serious dehydration. Ed Abington, again, thank you for being here.
Coming up next, an extraordinary campaign to unseat President Bush financed by none other than George Soros. He has spent millions of dollars of his own money. He is my guest tonight, along with a man working to reelect the president, President Reagan's former chief of staff, Ken Duberstein, Republican strategist, driving the campaign of President George W. Bush.
And then I'll be talking with a candidate for governor of the state of Texas. His name is Kinky Friedman. Why a ground-breaking Jewish country music artist says he wants to run the state of Texas. Kinky Friedman, well he's my guest. That and a great deal more still ahead on this broadcast right here tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Billionaire George Soros has been traveling for two weeks, talking in 12 cities across the country about why he says President Bush shouldn't be reelected. Soros says President Bush is, in his words, "endangering our safety, hurting our vital interest and undermining our American values." Other than that, George Soros is a fan of President Bush.
George, good to have you with us.
GEORGE SOROS, INTERNATIONAL FINANCIER: My pleasure.
DOBBS: You've had an opportunity to go out in a lot of the swing states. What is your sense of what's going on out there?
SOROS: Well, I think that the country is deeply divided and the two campaigns, in many ways, are sort of talking past each other. It's two different concepts of how you deal with a complex and often frightening reality. One is to, you know, put your faith and your beliefs and the other is to deal with reality. I think it's wonderful to have faith, and you must have -- you must base your decision on beliefs, religious or otherwise, but you must take account of reality, and you must recognize that you may be wrong. And if you're wrong, you have to correct your mistakes.
DOBBS: When you talk about this, it sounds all so very rational, well considered, which I would expect from you. At the same time, your passion in this, your monumental anger to drive George Bush...
SOROS: It's not anger. It's not anger.
DOBBS: George, I've known you a long time. I've known you a long time.
SOROS: Well, you know, I am committed to the principles of an open society. This idea that you may be wrong. And that actually has been the foundation of my success in the financial market. I wasn't always right, but I knew when to cut my losses.
DOBBS: And you also knew when to bet very heavily. SOROS: That's true, too. And to have a president who doesn't recognize his mistakes, and when we are the most powerful nation on earth, no external enemy, no terrorist organization can destroy us, but if we can destroy ourselves, if we don't correct our mistakes and get caught in a quagmire as we did in Iraq.
DOBBS: Let me ask you something. I'm going to ask Ken Duberstein just a little while supporting President Bush, obviously, and that is your passion, your fervor for these candidates, issues like immigration, trade policy, the environment, real reform and energy policy. Where are these candidates? Because it is binary. It is one or the other. I can't find enough to separate these folks on these issues.
SOROS: I think they are very, very different.
DOBBS: Help me out.
SOROS: On the environment, totally different. One is catering to the special interest involved in the environment. The other is genuine, Kerry actually...
DOBBS: Senator Kerry will sign the Kyoto treaty?
SOROS: He probably would. Yes, I think he would.
DOBBS: But 95 senators rejected it.
SOROS: You do need something to do something.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more on that.
SOROS: But I think Kerry has a very good record on the environment. So I think there's a lot separating them.
DOBBS: Let's get your forecast. Who's going to win?
SOROS: I think that it's very, very close. In the end it is voter turnout. I've just came back from Ohio...
DOBBS: 47-47 in the latest poll.
SOROS: But it doesn't count 850,000 newly registered voters with 8 million voters. So that's a good 10 percent. And the Republicans are running scared. Apparently, they'll stop at nothing to disrupt the elections. I think it could become a very ugly scene in Ohio because they know that without challenging those voters, they'll lose Ohio.
DOBBS: George Soros, a man who has put his money, his energy and his time behind his political convictions. Good to have you here. Always good to see you, George.
SOROS: My pleasure.
DOBBS: I'm joined now by a supporter, a strategist for the Bush/Cheney campaign. Ken Duberstein. He served as president Reagan's chief of staff some years ago of course and joins us tonight from Washington, D.C. Ken, good to have you here.
KEN DUBERSTEIN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Great to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: You just heard George Soros. He is a man of great passion, commitment, belief, principle, as are you. You don't have the money that George Soros does, certainly. But the fact is, this race has engendered those kinds of passions, verging in many cases and extending to anger. What is your best sense of where this campaign is headed now?
DUBERSTEIN: Well, number one, I respect George Soros for putting his money where his mouth is. Certainly, he has contributed tens of millions of dollars. I salute him for getting involved in the process that way.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
DUBERSTEIN: I think very much that this race is just like the nation, 50-50. I just think that a tie goes to the incumbent, and I think the issue skew is very much towards the president. Not only Iraq, but terrorism. I think that that helps Bush because, after all, I think this is a leadership election, and I think the president wins on those points. But it is going to be a very narrow victory. Let's hope that the legitimacy is not questioned and that we go forward as a country.
DOBBS: Ken, I think we would all agree with you on -- join with you in that wish. But the fact of the matter is, legitimacy is already being questioned by attorneys hired by both Democrats and Republicans, in point in fact. So that wish has already evaporated before the election. To what degree is the Republican party, the Bush/Cheney campaign committed to being prepared, as are the Democrats, for extensive litigation?
DUBERSTEIN: Well, you know, I am not a lawyer. But I would think that prudence says you have to be prepared for litigation. Let's hope that on election night or the next morning there is a clear victor who I happen to think is George W. Bush. But let's hope for the country's sake that we get past this so there is a clear victory and we don't go through what we went through in the year 2000.
DOBBS: Let's certainly hope that's the case. As you said, an issue of leadership. Let's hope we find it in both of these candidates. Secondly, the same thing that I asked George Soros. I can't find much difference, frankly, between these candidates on a number of issues that they, both, frankly, run from. One of them is immigration. Another is articulating, at least to my satisfaction, frankly, to put my personal views straightforwardly, a vision of what this country will look like over the course of the next four years, an energy policy on the part of either candidate. What we're going to did with our infrastructure in this country, a host of just extraordinary problems, and the well-being of working men and women in the country, how they're going to be served. Aside from broad, if you will, pabulum-sounding remarks from both camps.
DUBERSTEIN: It seems to me there are a whole set of issues. You ticked many of them off, trade policy being another one, which I think they're fundamental as we go forward as a nation. The problem is, with Iraq, with terrorism, and with the economy, little else has been discussed. I think there are, in fact, huge differences between the two. On trade policy, for example, I think President Bush has demonstrated he's much more a free trader. I think John Kerry is much more worried about labor and environmental provisions. I am somebody who believes, like Ronald Reagan...
DOBBS: George Soros' heart just soared with your statement there, Ken.
DUBERSTEIN: Say that again.
DOBBS: I said George will be mighty happy to hear you say that.
DUBERSTEIN: I'm sure he would be. But, in fact, with President Bush, I think you are going to be able to get more trade agreements. I think with president Kerry you will run through an awful lot of difficulty with the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. It is all about leadership and governing and moving forward on all of those issues, on health policy, on tax policy, let alone the environment.
DOBBS: We've got a few others that I ticked off that we don't have time to go through. But that sort of seems to be the nature of both broadcast television and, also, political campaigns as the time is winding down.
DUBERSTEIN: Unfortunately so.
DOBBS: Ken Duberstein, thank you very much for being here.
DUBERSTEIN: Lou, thanks. My pleasure.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the author of a new book on everything from country singers to politicians and they're about people I like. They're called troublemakers. Kinky Friedman is joining me next to talk about his bid to be governor of the great state of Texas. Don't mess with Kinky.
And with just six days to go, President Bush and Senator Kerry on a campaign blitz through the battleground states. Tonight we'll hear from the nation's very top political journalists. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest is the author of a new book. The title is "Scuse While I Whip This Out: Reflections on Country Singers, Presidents and Other Trouble Makers." He called the book -- the people in his book trouble makers. Because he said they've stirred the putrid pot of humanity and caused a stink (ph). And he cites many of my favorite trouble makers in this new book. Kinky Friedman, plans to stir that pot himself by running for Texas governor in 2006.
Joining me from Austin, Texas, Kinky Friedman. Kinky, good to have you here.
KINKY FRIEDMAN, AUTHOR: Hey, Lou. How are you?
DOBBS: First all, thanks for focusing on some of my favorite trouble makers, Jerry Jeff Walker, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson. So, it's just a wonderful read.
FRIEDMAN: A trinity right there. Yes.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, what made you decide to run for governor?
FRIEDMAN: Well, the other candidates all seem to be -- they seem to be career politicians, you know, ribbon cutters. They see -- they see this office as just a comfortable job, and I see it as an opportunity to make that lone star shine again.
DOBBS: I like that. That has a ring to it, lone star shine again. Have you talked about campaign managers putting together an organization. Even though you wouldn't be a professional politician, you still need all of that.
FRIEDMAN: Yes were just -- well as I always point out the professionals gave us the Titanic and the amateurs gave us the Ark. So, we're just starting out. It's two years from now and I'd be running as an independent. I will be with the party of George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Sam Houston and Davey Crockett.
DOBBS: That's a pretty good group of folks. What do you want to accomplish? Do you have a specific platform or...
FRIEDMAN: Well, there's a number of things. There's a guy on death row I've interviewed for "Texas Monthly." I write a column in "Texas Monthly." His name is Max Soffar. He's been there for 23 years. He's put there on absolutely no evidence what so ever, just recanted testimony -- recanted confession. Most states wouldn't have even sent him to trial. So, I'm not anti-death penalty, but I am anti-the wrong guy getting executed
DOBBS: Yes. I know most of us would join you on that one.
FRIEDMAN: Then I want to legalize casino gambling, pay for education with it. I'm the teacher's friend, I the teacher's pet. I like to do -- I would like to bring back the Southwest Conference now, if that's possible.
DOBBS: And that is one of your -- that is a very noble aspiration. Let me ask you, Kinky...
FRIEDMAN: I know it is political football (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
DOBBS: Kinky, let me ask you this, just real quickly, how do you think this presidential election is going to turn out?
FRIEDMAN: God, well, George promised me he would help me with the governor's race and he told me he'd be my one-man focus...
DOBBS: George, as in President George W. Bush?
FRIEDMAN; Right. I've slept under two presidents as a house guest at the White House, Bill Clinton and George Bush. So, I think it's only right that I should support, George, as well.
DOBBS: Kinky Friedman, we support you. We thank you.
FRIEDMAN: Well, thank you very much.
DOBBS: You're more than welcome.
FRIEDMAN: Let's make that lone star shine again.
DOBBS: You're overworking that one now, partner, as we say in Texas.
Kinky Friedman, author of the book entitled "Scuse Me While I Whip This Out." A terrific read about terrific trouble makers. And it's always good to talk with you.
FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: I'm joined now by three of this countries best political journalist. From Washington, Ron Brownstein of the "Los Angeles Times," Karen Tumulty of "Time" magazine, Roger Simon of "U.S. News and World Report." Thank you all for being here. And I know none of you are running for office. I suspect that.
ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Not unless I can get a hat like Kinky's.
DOBBS: Well, that's a pretty good hat. The cigar looks good -- well, I shouldn't say. The fact of the matter is, we've got a tight races in Ohio. You heard George Soros talking about he feels that there's a sense of intimidations on the part of the republicans in that state.
What are your views, Ron?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": That's a combustible situation, Lou. I think that we're going to have a lot of challenges potentially to a lot of voters on election day with a lot of lawyers standing around in polling places. And that could be -- I think -- with asking, in many cases retired schoolteachers and other people who are election judges to decide these things. I think you have the potential for a lot of conflict on election day and, of course, spilling out beyond election day on questions like, how to handle the provisional ballots.
So, it could be contentious. Perhaps it's won't be as bad as we think. But if the election is close enough for all of this to matter, the odds are pretty high, I think, that we're going to have some conflict spilling into November.
DOBBS: Karen, at this -- at this point, half a million short -- half a million people short of needed for those to man -- the polls. What do you think -- how important do you think that is to what's going to transpire on election day?
KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME": I think it's very important, especially considering that so many people who are coming to the polls will be people who have never voted before. In Florida alone you have over a million newly registered voters. It's far from certain how many of them will actually show up. But I think a combination of a shortage of poll workers and voter whose are just trying this out for the first time could be really disastrous.
DOBBS: Roger, then in the battleground states, a poll today showing, to a lot of people's amazement, that Senator Kerry and George Bush now, or at least in that one poll, tied in New Jersey of all places.
What's going on in the battleground states?
SIMON: What's probably going on in these battleground states is as Charlie Cook, a pollster and respected analyst said a few days ago in his column, these polls are being done by local polling company that may not be all that terrific. You know, every time I see an obvious state suddenly swinging the other way and we're being told West Virginia is in play, Hawaii is in play, Arkansas is in play, New Jersey's in play, maybe but not maybe not.
DOBBS: Maybe but maybe not. Ron, the issue.
BROWNSTEIN: I'm in the maybe -- I'm in the maybe not camp. I mean, there can be surprises, Lou. But right now we're looking at a list as short as seven states realistically, maybe eight. New Hampshire, Ohio, Florida, top targets for Kerry, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, New Mexico, conceivable Pennsylvania. You (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Pennsylvania. Michigan a little more distant for President Bush. Look at where they're traveling. They are crossing each other's tracks every day because they see so few state that realisticly could change. And each has a very narrow margin for error as a result.
DOBBS: Karen, do you -- what issue do you think right now is cutting, as best can be determined, most with the voters?
TUMULTY: I think it's Iraq, Iraq, and Iraq. Every time these campaigns try to go on to talk about something else, there is some development from Iraq that burst onto the front pages, onto the TV screens and keeps bringing it back to this one issue. And I think that if, in fact, there is some big trend over the last weekend, as there often is, that sends a lot of those undecided voters in one direction, I think that Iraq is where you look for it.
DOBBS: Roger, we've got just a few seconds. When do you expect to see some -- If you, first of all, expect to see some shift here. When do you expect to see that momentum begin to build and be reflected in the polls you don't trust?
SIMON: We may, in the last weekend before the election, as Karen just said, see a trend. I'm still of the school, I'm the contrarian I guess, who thinks this will not be razor close. I think whoever wins, will win it by two or three percentage points, rendering all this battleground state talk unnecessary. Because The electoral college is there to magnify popular vote victories. And So if we have a clear winner, I think he's going to be a clear popular vote winner and a clear electoral college vote winner.
DOBBS: Roger Simon, Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein, thank you for being here. Talk to you tomorrow.
Now, the results of our poll. Almost two-thirds of you say you will not do your part to close ranks behind whoever is elected president on November 2nd. That's a tough vote, by any stretch of the imagination. Almost makes you wish you hadn't asked.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. "Vanity Fair" editor in chief Graydon Carter and columnist John Leo will be with us to square off on this campaign and the issues involved therein. Also outspoken Bush critic, comedian and author, Al Franken joins us. Please be with us.
Good night from New York. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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Aired October 27, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Six days to go. President Bush and Senator Kerry trading charges today in the escalating controversy over missing explosives in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN K. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we're seeing is a White House that is dodging and bobbing and weaving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Senator's denigrating the action of our troops and commanders in the field.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Billionaire George Soros is my guest today. He's spending millions of his money to try to defeat President Bush. George Soros and I will talk about why he hates President Bush so much.
I'll be talking with former Reagan White House chief of staff Ken Duberstein about why he likes President Bush so much.
Three million illegal aliens will enter the country this year, nothing less than an invasion, and a new study says illegal aliens and legal immigrations have combined to take many of the jobs created over the past four years.
And will your vote count this year? Attorneys are already fighting over voting problems in swing states including Ohio. Tonight, I'll be joined by the top Republican and Democratic field generals in the ground war in Ohio to talk about what appears to be an election that's too close to call and one that may be litigated to conclusion.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, October 27. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
President Bush today accused Senator Kerry of making wild charges in the increasingly bitter argument over missing explosives in Iraq. President Bush said Senator Kerry jumped to conclusions before Senator Kerry knew all the facts. President Bush campaigning in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan today.
Dana Bash reports now from Pontiac, Michigan. Frank Buckley is covering the Kerry campaign. He's now in Rochester, Minnesota. And Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon official, from Washington tonight.
We begin with Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it was abundantly clear to Bush campaign aides that Senator Kerry was going to keep pointing to these missing explosives as a key reason, a key example of Bush incompetence in Iraq. So, after initially resisting, the president engaged.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): After ignoring reporters' questions a day earlier about missing Iraq explosives, the president finally responded.
BUSH: Our military is now investigating a number of possible scenarios, including that the explosives may have been moved before our troops even arrived at the site.
BASH: Under growing pressure, Mr. Bush abandoned past practice of ignoring his opponent's attacks, saying John Kerry's "wild charges the president's to blame for explosives gone missing" are based on fuzzy facts.
BUSH: This investigation is important, and it's ongoing, and a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief.
BASH: Bush aides insist the president's not back on his heels. They spin this unusually stark defense as offense, that calling Senator Kerry someone who will say anything to get elected works to their advantage. But Kerry aides say they scored a win by forcing the president to explain and defend the situation in Iraq six days before the election.
Bush officials still claim talking about national security benefits them.
BUSH: If you are a Democrat who wants America to lead with strength and idealism, I would be honored to have your vote.
BASH: Security is one of the issues the president used to appeal to conservative Democrats in rural Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. With Zell Miller at his side, Mr. Bush is trying to win this state and Ohio with a straightforward pitch. From education to abortion to gay marriage, the president said he's more in line with the values of rural Democrats than John Kerry.
BUSH: My opponent is running away from some of the great traditions of the Democrat Party.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BASH: The president's aides want to change the subject. They are resigned to the fact that they are going to be responding to Senator Kerry's attacks on the missing explosives in these final days, but Bush aides insist that if voters are going to go to the ballot box based on Iraq, they probably already made up their mind -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Dana Bash reporting from Michigan, a battleground state now, and it's simply too close to call.
Senator Kerry today declared President Bush has been trying to avoid taking any responsibility for those missing explosives. The senator today campaigned in Iowa and Minnesota. Frank Buckley now has the report from Rochester, Minnesota.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senator John Kerry rallied supporters in Rochester, Minnesota, and railed against President Bush for the third straight day on the missing explosives in Iraq.
KERRY: Mr. President, for the sake of our brave men and women in uniform, for the sake of those troops who are in danger because of your wrong decisions, you owe America real answers about what happened, not just political attacks.
BUCKLEY: Kerry referring to President Bush's answer to Kerry's continuing criticism. Bush suggesting the senator was denigrating the troops on the ground.
Senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart was quick to respond with a statement. "For a commander in chief to sidestep these important questions and to somehow imply that John Kerry does anything less than fully support our troops is beneath contempt."
ANNOUNCER: Our soldiers fighting in Iraq, our heroes.
BUCKLEY: The campaign also went up with a new ad on cable in battleground states to make sure Kerry wasn't misunderstood.
ANNOUNCER: We will always support and honor those who serve.
BUCKLEY: The ad echoing Kerry's praise of the troops at rallies.
KERRY: Our troops are doing a heroic job. The president, the commander in chief, is not doing his job.
BUCKLEY: Kerry left Rochester bound for Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Earlier he had campaigned in Sioux City. The visits to the Hawkeye State on the same day an indication of how tight the race is in a state that went to Al Gore by a mere 4,100 votes in 2000.
A new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows Mr. Bush with the support of 50 percent of likely voters compared to 46 percent for Mr. Kerry. Among registered voters, it's 47 percent to 48 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And here in the final stretch of the campaign, Lou, the idea is to have rallies like the one we saw here in Minnesota to get out their supporters, to get out the supporters of each one of these candidates, bring celebrities out, do whatever you have to do to generate excitement to get your supporters to the polls.
Tomorrow, the tour of battleground states for Senator Kerry continues in Wisconsin and Ohio, before Senator Kerry moves on to the mother of all battleground states, Florida, where he'll spend the entire day Friday campaigning -- Lou.
DOBBS: I think this year, Frank, it's safe to say there are a lot of mothers, as you put it, among the battleground states. Gore -- Vice President Gore won Iowa by 5 percentage points in 2000. Across the board in these battleground states, neither campaign is, obviously, comfortable with their positions right now in the polls. What is the campaign saying?
BUCKLEY: Well, they -- really this close to the election, the polls are -- especially the national polling, the Kerry campaign folks would say, look, the national polling is really not relevant.
What is relevant is the individual looks, the individual battleground states, and they believe in these battleground states that they are actually doing better. But, clearly, some of the strategy suggests that they are concerned about states like Iowa where Al Gore won by just 4,100 votes in 2000.
They know it's a tight race there. So they're having to go to some of these states that were blue in 2000 to make sure -- or at least to try to make sure that they stay blue this year as well.
DOBBS: Frank Buckley.
Thank you very much.
The Pentagon today released new information about the dates American troops and special search teams arrived at the Iraqi storage facility from which those 350 metric tons of high explosives are missing. Pentagon officials say Iraqis likely removed those explosives long before the first soldiers -- American soldiers arrived at the site.
Our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, today, the Pentagon said that it believes that soldiers from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division were the first to show up at the Al-Qaqaa facility on April 3, 2003.
According to their commander, the U.S. soldiers just thought it was another of dozens of Iraqi ammo dumps they encountered on their way to Baghdad. They knew nothing about the tons of high explosives that the IAEA said were there, much less having any orders to look for the stockpile.
But the Pentagon says it still believes the missing stockpile was gone, dispersed by Saddam Hussein or perhaps his followers, and to back up its case today, it came up with one of the commanders who was there at the time who doubted the material could have been stolen after the U.S. troops arrived in April.
Colonel David Perkins, commander of the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Division, said that it would be almost impossible to do, he said. The one main road was packed for weeks bumper to bumper with U.S. convoys pushing toward Baghdad.
Perkins said, "It would be highly improbable that somehow, somebody, the enemy, puts together this convoy of trucks and sneaks them in and loads them up in the dark of night."
But, Lou, arms-control experts are still skeptical of the Pentagon's account. They say it is not all that impossible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID KAY, FORMER CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I also don't find it hard to believe that looters could carry it off in the dead of night or during the day and not use the road network.
I saw many Iraqi facilities in which they came by pick-up truck and constantly -- it's amazing to see whole buildings disappear at the hands of looters who are not organized, who do not have heavy equipment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Experts like David Kay also question why the Pentagon would not have seen the movement of these supplies along that one main road that goes out of there prior to the invasion, if that's really what happened, and the Pentagon right now is searching for overhead imagery from satellites or spy planes that they hope will back up their contention that they believe the stuff was moved before the U.S. got there -- Lou.
DOBBS: Three days into this story, Jamie, and we are still struggling for lots of answers to lots of unanswered questions. Is the Pentagon saying anything beyond this in terms of why in the world there weren't strikes carried out against this if there was full knowledge, as apparently there was, that HMX and RDX and other explosives were there? Why not strike it? Why not get rid of it?
MCINTYRE: Well, it's not clear that the facility wasn't struck. In fact, some of the satellite imagery after the war seemed to indicate that there had been some explosions at some of the buildings.
That's one of the things that the Pentagon is now doing an exhaustive review, to try to figure out what actually happened there and what imagery or other documentation they might have to back it up. DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
And lots more on this story to come.
Still ahead here, Yasser Arafat tonight is in critical condition. We'll have the very latest for you.
And the Republican and Democratic field generals in the ground war in Ohio Face Off here tonight. Ohio, of course, one of the very most critical swing states in this election.
All of that and a great deal more still ahead here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: An astonishing assault today on Congresswoman Katherine Harris as she campaigned in Sarasota, Florida. Police say the driver of a silver Cadillac swerved off the road, headed straight toward Harris, and swerved away at the last moment. No one was injured in the encounter.
Police officers traced the car to a local resident by the name of Barry Seltzer. He says he was trying to intimidate the former Florida secretary of state of Campaign 2000 fame. Seltzer said he was simply exercising his rights of "political expression." Police officers arrested him and charged him with aggravated assault.
Malfunctioning voting machines, missing ballots, legal battles, outright fraud all threatening the integrity of our voting system this year. Every day, there are new reports of voting irregularities and problems in states all across the country.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Broward County, Florida, long early voting lines. Some of those waiting here had planned to vote absentee, but the ballots never came in the mail. The U.S. Postal Service inspector is investigating the disappearance of 58,000 absentee ballots sent out between October 7 and 8.
This voter is among those who didn't receive her ballot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. It makes me feel like in a way we live in a Third World country, that like there's all this uproar about -- people are voting. It's important, and the system is flawed, and all the -- the importance of the election is pointing out the flaws in our system.
SYLVESTER: In another battleground state, Ohio, 35,000 voter registrations are being disputed. Republicans say those voters should be ineligible to vote because their confirmation cards were returned in the mail. But Democrats have filed a lawsuit to block the Republican challenge.
If it all sounds confusing, imagine how it is for the voters.
SHARON MCGRAW, LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, CLEVELAND; We are hearing from voters who are frustrated. They're scared. They're discouraged. It's frightening to watch. By the end of the day, after getting hundreds of calls from people, it's sad. It's just very sad to see our process decaying.
SYLVESTER: In Georgia, early voting came to a near standstill after a technical glitch. Election workers could not access a voter database for hours.
And legal battles are being fought in Michigan, Iowa and Ohio over how provisional ballots should be counted, just one issue that could easily land before the U.S. Supreme Court.
DAN SELIGSON, ELECTIONLINE.ORG: They're using the courts to try and get some voters off the rolls, add voters to others, change the way provisional voting is handled, change what kind of machines are used and where. So we're seeing the courts used just really in an unprecedented way.
SYLVESTER: Poll workers will have to contend with not only the new rules on Election Day, but also a record number of voters expected to turn out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And that's another problem. The Federal Election Assistance Commission estimates precincts around the country have fallen about half a million short of the two million poll workers that are needed for next week's election -- Lou.
DOBBS: So just a half million people to find between now and Election Day.
Lisa, thank you.
Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
President Bush today picked up a key endorsement from Hispanic groups. The board of directors of the Latino Coalition and more than 20 other Hispanic organizations from all over the country have given their endorsement to President Bush.
The vice chairman of the coalition says, "President Bush knows and understands the Hispanic community better than any other president before him."
Coming up next, Yasser Arafat's health is deteriorating. He is, we are told, in critical condition tonight. I'll be talking with a leading adviser to the Palestinian Authority. We'll be going to Ramallah for the latest on Arafat's condition.
And then, troubling new information on the impact of immigration and illegal aliens on this country's job market. Millions of jobs have been created, many of them not for American citizens.
And our Democracy at Risk. This time, Ohio could be the center of a national election controversy. I'll be joined by the top Republican and Democratic leaders in the ground war for Ohio's 200 electoral votes, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Jobs and the economy have been a major focus of this campaign. Now a new study suggests that millions of people who have found work over the past four years are not always Americans. Half of those people who have found jobs over the past four years are illegal aliens.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Immigration may not be a big issue in this election campaign, but the loss of American jobs is. Now comes a new study showing the two are closely linked.
The Center for Immigration Studies examined census data and found that, between 2000 and 2004, the number of unemployed native-born American adults rose by 2.3 million, while the number of working immigrants, legal and illegal, increased by the same amount.
STEVE CAMAROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: While it would be a mistake to assume that there is a one-for-one relationship between immigrant employment gains and native losses, it is clear that the number of immigrants with jobs increased dramatically at the same time as the number of natives without a job but who were looking for it increased dramatically.
WIAN: And the trend is accelerating. Of the estimated 900,000 jobs the economy added between March 2003 and 2004, two-thirds went to immigrants, even though they only make up 15 percent of the population.
While not disputing the study's figures, one prominent economist takes issue with the implication that immigrants are taking jobs from native workers.
JAMES SMITH, RAND CORP.: Well, the reason that there are job losses is we've had a recession, and older workers leave the labor force. The main group who's leaving the labor force are older workers who are retiring. Most of them are native-born workers.
WIAN: The report also found that illegal aliens are responsible for about half of the immigrant job gains. It also refutes much of the conventional wisdom about illegal aliens in the labor force, specifically the argument that they're mostly doing jobs Americans won't do.
In job categories, such as agriculture, building maintenance, construction and food preparation, native-born Americans still hold the majority of jobs, but they're rapidly losing them to immigrants.
(on camera): Finally, the study found that states with the largest influx of immigrants also had the greatest number of job losses among native workers, and it calls into question the wisdom of guest worker or amnesty proposals favored by both presidential candidates.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next here, Yasser Arafat is apparently critically ill. I'll be talk with a leading adviser to the Palestinian Authority about Arafat's condition tonight and what his illness means for the future of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
Also, charges of fraud, corruption, voter intimidations. The battle for president that is raging now in Ohio. We'll hear from both political parties in tonight's Face Off.
He was President Reagan's chief of staff. Ken Duberstein is a top Republican strategist working hard now to reelect President Bush. He'll be my guest.
And joining me tonight as well, billionaire George Soros. He's working hard and spending millions of his own money to push President Bush out of the Oval Office.
I'll be talking with both gentlemen here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: With 20 electoral votes at stake and a race still too close to call, the battle for Ohio has become one of the most contentious races. Hundreds of attorneys have already been sent to Ohio to defend their party and voters supporting their parties during this election.
One legal battle is already underway, however. Thousands of registration confirmation cards in Ohio have been returned as undeliverable. The GOP says many of those return cards were submitted by groups supporting the Democratic Party. Democrats, meanwhile, say the Republicans are trying to intimidate honest voters.
That debate brings us to tonight's Face Off. Our guests, David Sullivan -- he is the coordinator for voter protection for Ohio Democrats -- and Robert Bennett -- he's the chairman of Ohio's Republican Party. Both join us tonight from Columbus, Ohio.
Thank you for being here.
David Sullivan, let me ask you, first of all, the talk about more people being registered than live in various counties in Ohio. This issue on voter registration confirmation cards being returned, what in the world is going on in your state?
DAVID SULLIVAN, VOTER PROTECTION, OHIO DEMOCRATS: Well, I think the main thing that's going on is that a lot of people are really being mobilized to vote for the first time, and we think that's a wonderful thing.
Hundreds of thousands of new voters all over the state trying to participate in our election for the first time in their lives. I think that's tremendous.
Now, certainly, whenever you get that many people registering to vote, there are going to be a few incorrect registrations. We certainly don't tolerate that. We want to see correct information about that brought to the attention of boards of elections.
But the scare tactics being used by the Republican Party, which is going after 35,000 people all over the state just because a piece of mail got returned that was mailed to them, that's unconscionable.
DOBBS: Why is that -- let me ask you. Why is that unconscionable because if, point in fact, the authorities don't know what's going on there and officials don't know what's going on, why shouldn't it be checked out thoroughly?
SULLIVAN: It should be checked out thoroughly, but the way that it's being done by the Republicans is unacceptable. What they've done is to file a challenge under the penalty of election falsification signed by somebody who claims that they have direct evidence that somebody is not, in fact, eligible to vote, and the vast majority of those are completely false.
We've been getting calls over the last few days from military personnel. We got an e-mail from somebody on the USS Kittyhawk who was objected to, and he is outraged. He's a sailor defending his country, and here he is being attacked for being an illegal voter.
We've had calls from Republicans who are wrongly being challenged, people in the military, Republicans, ordinary citizens who are being harassed just for exercising their right to vote.
DOBBS: Robert Bennett, what are the Republicans doing there in Ohio?
ROBERT BENNETT: CHAIRMAN, OHIO REPUBLICAN PARTY: Well, let me say this, is David Sullivan is absolutely correct that in some of those pre-challenges, you're going to pick up some people that are legitimate voters.
The fact of the matter is that the Ohio Republican Party sent out over 200,000 letters to newly registered voters in Ohio welcoming to the ranks of voters in Ohio, and we had an unprecedented number of those returned by the post office that were undeliverable, and, in many cases, the voters were marked deceased, unknown at this address, not at this address.
DOBBS: All right. Now how many... BENNETT: Normally, we would get...
DOBBS: Excuse me for interrupting. How many did you send out?
BENNETT: We sent out over 230,000.
DOBBS: And how many of them were returned?
BENNETT: Fourteen percent of them.
DOBBS: That's where I was going. I was trying to get the percent. And typically what would be the percent that you would expect to...
BENNETT: Typically, we would expect somewhere around 1 percent, a little under 1 percent that would be returned to us for one reason or another.
DOBBS: Did you send...
BENNETT: We...
DOBBS: Did you send this mailing specifically to see what would happen with those returns?
BENNETT: No, we didn't. We mailed it in a variety of counties. To all newly registered voters we tried to capture as many of them from January 1 up to and through the end of August of this year. Many of these registrations were turned into the board's late.
Now, I will concede that there will be some voters on there, and David gave a good example of somebody that went into the service, moved away from their address after they registered to vote, they're certainly entitled to vote. Pre-challenges, under Ohio law, can be filed with the individual boards of elections. We filed these in some 65 of 88 counties in Ohio.
Now, the reason that we did this, Lou...
DOBBS: I need you to wrap up here. We've got a lot to cover.
BENNETT: The reason we did this is very simple. And that was to avoid long lines on election day. The only one that is filing suits in Ohio about fraud is the Democrats and their allies.
DOBBS: Well, let's go back to David Sullivan. Republican Party contending there's fraud, putting volunteers at the polls on election day. You are contending that's suppression. Isn't it just simply to maintain, as Mr. Bennett says, integrity of the system?
SULLIVAN: Nobody is contesting their right to have challenges at the polls. All we're insisting on is if they object to somebody, that they have proof that somebody is not a legitimate voter. So far, we have yet to see any proof, aside from a few people, that people aren't legitimate. All we know is that a single piece of mail was not returned. And by the way, today, a federal judge ruled this whole process is unconstitutional as a matter of federal law, because these voters didn't have adequate notice. Judge DeLott, in Cincinnati, a federal judge, issued a temporary restraining order this afternoon prohibiting the boards of elections from considering any more of these challenges because she said it violated the constitutional rights of these voters. So, it is not just me saying this, it is a federal judge.
DOBBS: Are things going to get better, Mr. Bennett, between now and election day in Ohio?
BENNETT: First of all, I want to correct David. He is an attorney, so he knows that that was a temporary restraining order. And the judge is going to issue a final order tonight that's an appealable order.
Now, what we're trying to do and get done with all this entire process is have the individual boards of elections, who also receive these same mailings back to rule on this between now and election day.
DOBBS: We look forward to the ruling. I know you do, too. The voters of Ohio and both parties to get it sorted out. In other words, we are in for a contentious election day in Ohio, correct, gentlemen?
BENNETT: I think it will be smoother than what you think now.
SULLIVAN: I hope so, too. We're hoping for a good election day. And we'll be there to make sure everyone has the right to vote.
BENNETT: Absolutely.
DOBBS: All right. It still sounds contentious to me. David Sullivan, Robert Bennett, we thank you both gentlemen for being here.
BENNETT: Thank you.
DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. "Will you do your part to close ranks behind whomever is elected on November 2?" Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Now, returning to news today from the Middle East. The Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, is reportedly critically ill. You are right now watching a live picture of Arafat's compound in Ramallah on the West Bank where a team of Jordanian doctors have been summoned. They are at this hour treating Yasser Arafat.
Arafat's illness comes at a critical time, of course, in Middle East tensions. The Israeli parliament has just approved an Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, and a tiny portion of the West Bank.
The determination of Yasser Arafat's condition is being reported by the Israeli's at this point, and one aid to Arafat who described his condition as critical.
Joining me now from Washington, a leading adviser to the Palestinian authority, Ed Abington. He's a former U.S. consul in Jerusalem. And he talked with the senior aid to Yasser Arafat just a short time ago.
Ed, thanks for being here. Obviously, a lot of focus tonight on Yasser Arafat and his condition. Is it as serious as it appears to be?
ED ABINGTON, FRM. U.S. CONSUL IN JERUSALEM: I don't think he is really critically ill. He is definitely ill. I spoke to him yesterday for 10 or 15 minutes with Arafat. I asked how he was doing. He said he was feeling bad, but he thought he was getting better. He described his illness as a stomach virus or stomach flu.
When I talked to one of his aides today, about an hour ago, he was in the room with Arafat. He said it was not true that he was unconscious. He said doctors were there treating him, that Arafat was dehydrated. He had been fasting because of Ramadan. His doctors told him to stop fasting, to take liquids and so forth. And the doctors were going to make a determination whether Arafat should be moved to a hospital, or whether he could be treated in the compound.
But his senior associate told me that it was not true that Arafat was unconscious, or that he was at his death bed.
DOBBS: At this point, the summoning of the Jordanian doctors, the Israelis had given permission for Arafat to leave the compound for medical treatment. As you know, he did not accept that offer. Of course, he's been confined to the compound for what now, two and a half years?
ABINGTON: That's right.
DOBBS: At this point, there is no order of succession, really, in place for Arafat. Give us your best judgment on the implications of his condition tonight, the possibility that he would die as a result of -- if these other reports should be true of the critical nature of his illness. Where would that lead us?
ABINGTON: Well, he had a similar illness about a year ago and Egyptian doctors came on an emergency basis and treated him. But you know, that was then, now is now. It's hard to say exactly what the status of his health is.
There is a procedure whereby he would be replaced for a short period of time by the speaker of the Palestinian parliament and then elections would be held. But under the current conditions, I don't think anyone thinks it is possible to hold elections.
What is most likely is that the senior Palestinian leadership, people like Abu Mazen, Abu Alad (ph), Nabil Shaf (ph) and others would form a collective leadership and try to work through a process of selecting a new president of the Palestinian authority and a new head of the PLO. And that might take some period of time.
DOBBS: Ed Abington, thank you very much. Ed Abington's view, having talked to a senior aide, that his illness not life-threatening. That he is undergoing treatment for a stomach problem and serious dehydration. Ed Abington, again, thank you for being here.
Coming up next, an extraordinary campaign to unseat President Bush financed by none other than George Soros. He has spent millions of dollars of his own money. He is my guest tonight, along with a man working to reelect the president, President Reagan's former chief of staff, Ken Duberstein, Republican strategist, driving the campaign of President George W. Bush.
And then I'll be talking with a candidate for governor of the state of Texas. His name is Kinky Friedman. Why a ground-breaking Jewish country music artist says he wants to run the state of Texas. Kinky Friedman, well he's my guest. That and a great deal more still ahead on this broadcast right here tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Billionaire George Soros has been traveling for two weeks, talking in 12 cities across the country about why he says President Bush shouldn't be reelected. Soros says President Bush is, in his words, "endangering our safety, hurting our vital interest and undermining our American values." Other than that, George Soros is a fan of President Bush.
George, good to have you with us.
GEORGE SOROS, INTERNATIONAL FINANCIER: My pleasure.
DOBBS: You've had an opportunity to go out in a lot of the swing states. What is your sense of what's going on out there?
SOROS: Well, I think that the country is deeply divided and the two campaigns, in many ways, are sort of talking past each other. It's two different concepts of how you deal with a complex and often frightening reality. One is to, you know, put your faith and your beliefs and the other is to deal with reality. I think it's wonderful to have faith, and you must have -- you must base your decision on beliefs, religious or otherwise, but you must take account of reality, and you must recognize that you may be wrong. And if you're wrong, you have to correct your mistakes.
DOBBS: When you talk about this, it sounds all so very rational, well considered, which I would expect from you. At the same time, your passion in this, your monumental anger to drive George Bush...
SOROS: It's not anger. It's not anger.
DOBBS: George, I've known you a long time. I've known you a long time.
SOROS: Well, you know, I am committed to the principles of an open society. This idea that you may be wrong. And that actually has been the foundation of my success in the financial market. I wasn't always right, but I knew when to cut my losses.
DOBBS: And you also knew when to bet very heavily. SOROS: That's true, too. And to have a president who doesn't recognize his mistakes, and when we are the most powerful nation on earth, no external enemy, no terrorist organization can destroy us, but if we can destroy ourselves, if we don't correct our mistakes and get caught in a quagmire as we did in Iraq.
DOBBS: Let me ask you something. I'm going to ask Ken Duberstein just a little while supporting President Bush, obviously, and that is your passion, your fervor for these candidates, issues like immigration, trade policy, the environment, real reform and energy policy. Where are these candidates? Because it is binary. It is one or the other. I can't find enough to separate these folks on these issues.
SOROS: I think they are very, very different.
DOBBS: Help me out.
SOROS: On the environment, totally different. One is catering to the special interest involved in the environment. The other is genuine, Kerry actually...
DOBBS: Senator Kerry will sign the Kyoto treaty?
SOROS: He probably would. Yes, I think he would.
DOBBS: But 95 senators rejected it.
SOROS: You do need something to do something.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more on that.
SOROS: But I think Kerry has a very good record on the environment. So I think there's a lot separating them.
DOBBS: Let's get your forecast. Who's going to win?
SOROS: I think that it's very, very close. In the end it is voter turnout. I've just came back from Ohio...
DOBBS: 47-47 in the latest poll.
SOROS: But it doesn't count 850,000 newly registered voters with 8 million voters. So that's a good 10 percent. And the Republicans are running scared. Apparently, they'll stop at nothing to disrupt the elections. I think it could become a very ugly scene in Ohio because they know that without challenging those voters, they'll lose Ohio.
DOBBS: George Soros, a man who has put his money, his energy and his time behind his political convictions. Good to have you here. Always good to see you, George.
SOROS: My pleasure.
DOBBS: I'm joined now by a supporter, a strategist for the Bush/Cheney campaign. Ken Duberstein. He served as president Reagan's chief of staff some years ago of course and joins us tonight from Washington, D.C. Ken, good to have you here.
KEN DUBERSTEIN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Great to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: You just heard George Soros. He is a man of great passion, commitment, belief, principle, as are you. You don't have the money that George Soros does, certainly. But the fact is, this race has engendered those kinds of passions, verging in many cases and extending to anger. What is your best sense of where this campaign is headed now?
DUBERSTEIN: Well, number one, I respect George Soros for putting his money where his mouth is. Certainly, he has contributed tens of millions of dollars. I salute him for getting involved in the process that way.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
DUBERSTEIN: I think very much that this race is just like the nation, 50-50. I just think that a tie goes to the incumbent, and I think the issue skew is very much towards the president. Not only Iraq, but terrorism. I think that that helps Bush because, after all, I think this is a leadership election, and I think the president wins on those points. But it is going to be a very narrow victory. Let's hope that the legitimacy is not questioned and that we go forward as a country.
DOBBS: Ken, I think we would all agree with you on -- join with you in that wish. But the fact of the matter is, legitimacy is already being questioned by attorneys hired by both Democrats and Republicans, in point in fact. So that wish has already evaporated before the election. To what degree is the Republican party, the Bush/Cheney campaign committed to being prepared, as are the Democrats, for extensive litigation?
DUBERSTEIN: Well, you know, I am not a lawyer. But I would think that prudence says you have to be prepared for litigation. Let's hope that on election night or the next morning there is a clear victor who I happen to think is George W. Bush. But let's hope for the country's sake that we get past this so there is a clear victory and we don't go through what we went through in the year 2000.
DOBBS: Let's certainly hope that's the case. As you said, an issue of leadership. Let's hope we find it in both of these candidates. Secondly, the same thing that I asked George Soros. I can't find much difference, frankly, between these candidates on a number of issues that they, both, frankly, run from. One of them is immigration. Another is articulating, at least to my satisfaction, frankly, to put my personal views straightforwardly, a vision of what this country will look like over the course of the next four years, an energy policy on the part of either candidate. What we're going to did with our infrastructure in this country, a host of just extraordinary problems, and the well-being of working men and women in the country, how they're going to be served. Aside from broad, if you will, pabulum-sounding remarks from both camps.
DUBERSTEIN: It seems to me there are a whole set of issues. You ticked many of them off, trade policy being another one, which I think they're fundamental as we go forward as a nation. The problem is, with Iraq, with terrorism, and with the economy, little else has been discussed. I think there are, in fact, huge differences between the two. On trade policy, for example, I think President Bush has demonstrated he's much more a free trader. I think John Kerry is much more worried about labor and environmental provisions. I am somebody who believes, like Ronald Reagan...
DOBBS: George Soros' heart just soared with your statement there, Ken.
DUBERSTEIN: Say that again.
DOBBS: I said George will be mighty happy to hear you say that.
DUBERSTEIN: I'm sure he would be. But, in fact, with President Bush, I think you are going to be able to get more trade agreements. I think with president Kerry you will run through an awful lot of difficulty with the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. It is all about leadership and governing and moving forward on all of those issues, on health policy, on tax policy, let alone the environment.
DOBBS: We've got a few others that I ticked off that we don't have time to go through. But that sort of seems to be the nature of both broadcast television and, also, political campaigns as the time is winding down.
DUBERSTEIN: Unfortunately so.
DOBBS: Ken Duberstein, thank you very much for being here.
DUBERSTEIN: Lou, thanks. My pleasure.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the author of a new book on everything from country singers to politicians and they're about people I like. They're called troublemakers. Kinky Friedman is joining me next to talk about his bid to be governor of the great state of Texas. Don't mess with Kinky.
And with just six days to go, President Bush and Senator Kerry on a campaign blitz through the battleground states. Tonight we'll hear from the nation's very top political journalists. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest is the author of a new book. The title is "Scuse While I Whip This Out: Reflections on Country Singers, Presidents and Other Trouble Makers." He called the book -- the people in his book trouble makers. Because he said they've stirred the putrid pot of humanity and caused a stink (ph). And he cites many of my favorite trouble makers in this new book. Kinky Friedman, plans to stir that pot himself by running for Texas governor in 2006.
Joining me from Austin, Texas, Kinky Friedman. Kinky, good to have you here.
KINKY FRIEDMAN, AUTHOR: Hey, Lou. How are you?
DOBBS: First all, thanks for focusing on some of my favorite trouble makers, Jerry Jeff Walker, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson. So, it's just a wonderful read.
FRIEDMAN: A trinity right there. Yes.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, what made you decide to run for governor?
FRIEDMAN: Well, the other candidates all seem to be -- they seem to be career politicians, you know, ribbon cutters. They see -- they see this office as just a comfortable job, and I see it as an opportunity to make that lone star shine again.
DOBBS: I like that. That has a ring to it, lone star shine again. Have you talked about campaign managers putting together an organization. Even though you wouldn't be a professional politician, you still need all of that.
FRIEDMAN: Yes were just -- well as I always point out the professionals gave us the Titanic and the amateurs gave us the Ark. So, we're just starting out. It's two years from now and I'd be running as an independent. I will be with the party of George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Sam Houston and Davey Crockett.
DOBBS: That's a pretty good group of folks. What do you want to accomplish? Do you have a specific platform or...
FRIEDMAN: Well, there's a number of things. There's a guy on death row I've interviewed for "Texas Monthly." I write a column in "Texas Monthly." His name is Max Soffar. He's been there for 23 years. He's put there on absolutely no evidence what so ever, just recanted testimony -- recanted confession. Most states wouldn't have even sent him to trial. So, I'm not anti-death penalty, but I am anti-the wrong guy getting executed
DOBBS: Yes. I know most of us would join you on that one.
FRIEDMAN: Then I want to legalize casino gambling, pay for education with it. I'm the teacher's friend, I the teacher's pet. I like to do -- I would like to bring back the Southwest Conference now, if that's possible.
DOBBS: And that is one of your -- that is a very noble aspiration. Let me ask you, Kinky...
FRIEDMAN: I know it is political football (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
DOBBS: Kinky, let me ask you this, just real quickly, how do you think this presidential election is going to turn out?
FRIEDMAN: God, well, George promised me he would help me with the governor's race and he told me he'd be my one-man focus...
DOBBS: George, as in President George W. Bush?
FRIEDMAN; Right. I've slept under two presidents as a house guest at the White House, Bill Clinton and George Bush. So, I think it's only right that I should support, George, as well.
DOBBS: Kinky Friedman, we support you. We thank you.
FRIEDMAN: Well, thank you very much.
DOBBS: You're more than welcome.
FRIEDMAN: Let's make that lone star shine again.
DOBBS: You're overworking that one now, partner, as we say in Texas.
Kinky Friedman, author of the book entitled "Scuse Me While I Whip This Out." A terrific read about terrific trouble makers. And it's always good to talk with you.
FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: I'm joined now by three of this countries best political journalist. From Washington, Ron Brownstein of the "Los Angeles Times," Karen Tumulty of "Time" magazine, Roger Simon of "U.S. News and World Report." Thank you all for being here. And I know none of you are running for office. I suspect that.
ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Not unless I can get a hat like Kinky's.
DOBBS: Well, that's a pretty good hat. The cigar looks good -- well, I shouldn't say. The fact of the matter is, we've got a tight races in Ohio. You heard George Soros talking about he feels that there's a sense of intimidations on the part of the republicans in that state.
What are your views, Ron?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": That's a combustible situation, Lou. I think that we're going to have a lot of challenges potentially to a lot of voters on election day with a lot of lawyers standing around in polling places. And that could be -- I think -- with asking, in many cases retired schoolteachers and other people who are election judges to decide these things. I think you have the potential for a lot of conflict on election day and, of course, spilling out beyond election day on questions like, how to handle the provisional ballots.
So, it could be contentious. Perhaps it's won't be as bad as we think. But if the election is close enough for all of this to matter, the odds are pretty high, I think, that we're going to have some conflict spilling into November.
DOBBS: Karen, at this -- at this point, half a million short -- half a million people short of needed for those to man -- the polls. What do you think -- how important do you think that is to what's going to transpire on election day?
KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME": I think it's very important, especially considering that so many people who are coming to the polls will be people who have never voted before. In Florida alone you have over a million newly registered voters. It's far from certain how many of them will actually show up. But I think a combination of a shortage of poll workers and voter whose are just trying this out for the first time could be really disastrous.
DOBBS: Roger, then in the battleground states, a poll today showing, to a lot of people's amazement, that Senator Kerry and George Bush now, or at least in that one poll, tied in New Jersey of all places.
What's going on in the battleground states?
SIMON: What's probably going on in these battleground states is as Charlie Cook, a pollster and respected analyst said a few days ago in his column, these polls are being done by local polling company that may not be all that terrific. You know, every time I see an obvious state suddenly swinging the other way and we're being told West Virginia is in play, Hawaii is in play, Arkansas is in play, New Jersey's in play, maybe but not maybe not.
DOBBS: Maybe but maybe not. Ron, the issue.
BROWNSTEIN: I'm in the maybe -- I'm in the maybe not camp. I mean, there can be surprises, Lou. But right now we're looking at a list as short as seven states realistically, maybe eight. New Hampshire, Ohio, Florida, top targets for Kerry, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, New Mexico, conceivable Pennsylvania. You (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Pennsylvania. Michigan a little more distant for President Bush. Look at where they're traveling. They are crossing each other's tracks every day because they see so few state that realisticly could change. And each has a very narrow margin for error as a result.
DOBBS: Karen, do you -- what issue do you think right now is cutting, as best can be determined, most with the voters?
TUMULTY: I think it's Iraq, Iraq, and Iraq. Every time these campaigns try to go on to talk about something else, there is some development from Iraq that burst onto the front pages, onto the TV screens and keeps bringing it back to this one issue. And I think that if, in fact, there is some big trend over the last weekend, as there often is, that sends a lot of those undecided voters in one direction, I think that Iraq is where you look for it.
DOBBS: Roger, we've got just a few seconds. When do you expect to see some -- If you, first of all, expect to see some shift here. When do you expect to see that momentum begin to build and be reflected in the polls you don't trust?
SIMON: We may, in the last weekend before the election, as Karen just said, see a trend. I'm still of the school, I'm the contrarian I guess, who thinks this will not be razor close. I think whoever wins, will win it by two or three percentage points, rendering all this battleground state talk unnecessary. Because The electoral college is there to magnify popular vote victories. And So if we have a clear winner, I think he's going to be a clear popular vote winner and a clear electoral college vote winner.
DOBBS: Roger Simon, Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein, thank you for being here. Talk to you tomorrow.
Now, the results of our poll. Almost two-thirds of you say you will not do your part to close ranks behind whoever is elected president on November 2nd. That's a tough vote, by any stretch of the imagination. Almost makes you wish you hadn't asked.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. "Vanity Fair" editor in chief Graydon Carter and columnist John Leo will be with us to square off on this campaign and the issues involved therein. Also outspoken Bush critic, comedian and author, Al Franken joins us. Please be with us.
Good night from New York. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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