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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Scott Peterson Sentenced to Death; Leavitt Picked to Head HHS
Aired December 13, 2004 - 18:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: The jurors now explaining the process by which they reached their judgment, that Scott Peterson should be sentenced to death for the murder of Laci Peterson and her unborn son. We're joined now by Jeffrey Toobin to discuss this decision. It required far more time for this jury to reach a decision on the sentence than it did to reach a verdict. Are you surprised by that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: That's unusual. Usually the guilt phase is the time-consuming part of the process and the penalty phase goes pretty quickly. This jury did it the opposite way. And they obviously struggled with this decision much more than the guilt decision.
DOBBS: Have you been taken, as I have over the course of the past 45, 50 minutes now, the emotion obviously pent up by all of these jurors, each of them expressing in varying degrees some frustration, some pain, some deep, deep hurt in this?
TOOBIN: I thought this press conference was a tremendous advertisement for the American jury system. These people worked hard. They threw their souls into it. They tried to do the right thing. Perhaps we'll never know whether they in fact did the right thing. But certainly their motives and their -- the way they went about their work was honorable.
DOBBS: The word honor. As one of the jurors pointed out each of the members of this jury was, in his estimation, honorable. Worked diligently. At the same time, while you say it's an advertisement for the jury system, frankly, I have to tell you as I look at this process that took these people away from their lives for more than six months in point of fact now, that's hardly an advertisement for speedy justice, for reasonable and proportionate amount of time to spend. To me, it's less than an advertisement for the jury system.
TOOBIN: I was talking about the behavior of the jurors. I think the length of time this case took to try, the prosecution's decision to take that many months, the judge's decision to allow it, I think that was a disgrace. But that's California. Which is very different from the rest of the country. Things take much longer there. And there's no sign of it changing.
DOBBS: No sign of it changing. Justice rendered in this case, a sentence of death. Are you surprised by that sentence?
TOOBIN: I was surprised. I thought this was a case, given the absence of an eyewitness, given the absence of a cause of death, that the lingering doubt possibility would lead this jury to decide on a life without parole sentence. But this jury was horrified by this crime. They had no doubt. Not even any lingering doubt. And so they went with the maximum punishment. They really didn't like this guy.
DOBBS: Hardly a likable fellow, given the evidence that was put before them. The judgment, circumstantial as some pointed out. But most cases that are circumstantial in these types of cases?
TOOBIN: There are many, many defendants in prison based solely on circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is not bad evidence, it's not inferior evidence. It's obviously very convincing evidence in this case.
DOBBS: Another advertisement for the California court system and trial system is there won't be a final judgment on this, the judge in this case has the ability to either follow the recommendation, because in the last analysis that's what this is, a recommendation by the jury. The judge has the power to overturn that recommendation and supersede it with his own judgment, which in this case he has a choice between death and life in prison himself.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. Rarely exercised but he does have that power. It is also worth remembering that this is very likely an academic exercise. That there are more than 650 people in death row in California. California is executing people at a rate of fewer than one a year. Scott Peterson moves to the back of that line. It's overwhelmingly likely he will die of old age in prison rather than be executed.
DOBBS: The anomalies, the ironies, the utter frustrations in this case, pile high. Amongst them, the idea that this case now, it's been two years, just about two years since Laci Peterson was murdered. How is it that the American court system, and if the anomaly is the California system, so be it. But how can we expect the system to work when it takes two years from the incident to trial and conclusion, verdict and sentence?
TOOBIN: It's hard to point to one thing you could change. It's more of a cultural change. In Virginia, home of the rocket docket, this would be a three-week trial. The laws on the books aren't really that different in Virginia and California. It's just that the culture of the two communities is so different. And it leads to just completely difference in speed and justice.
DOBBS: Let's put this one murder, heinous, horrifying, in some context. There are 15,000 murders in this country each year. This case, how did it garner such attention?
TOOBIN: That I think is the question that all of us who have covered this case have struggled with. And without clear answers. The best I can come up with is that Laci Peterson, who disappeared on Christmas Eve, became a symbol of everything that is good about American womanhood and motherhood. And Scott Peterson became a symbol of everything that is bad about American males. And that paradigm pushed the case forward and kept people interested. DOBBS: And I should point out to our viewers that we are, in fact, expecting the Laci Peterson family to speak at the courthouse where Scott Peterson was first found guilty of her murder and sentenced today to death. We'll be going back to that courthouse just as soon as that news conference begins. But I want to first thank Jeffrey Toobin for bringing his insight and analysis, as always. Jeffrey, thank you very much.
Let's turn to some other news of the day. The White House today declared the controversy over the nomination and then withdrawal of Bernard Kerik as homeland security secretary to be a closed matter. Press secretary Scott McClellan said the White House remains confident about the screening procedures for its top official nominations. Kerik withdrew because of reports a family nanny was an illegal alien and failed to pay taxes. News organizations are reporting other problems as well. Today, President Bush announced another cabinet nomination, one that it would prefer to focus upon. Senior White House correspondent John King has that report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A big job shift in the Bush cabinet. But still a vacancy in one security post after an embarrassing episode for a White House that prides itself on order and discipline.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When confirmed by the Senate, Mike Leavitt will be charged with a broad agenda for the health and safety of the American people.
KING: Leavitt is the president's choice to take over the $500 billion a year Department of Health and Human Services where the challenges include medical research, Medicare overhaul, and the debate over reimportation of prescription drugs. Not to mention out going Tommy Thompson's warning that the nation's food supply is vulnerable to terrorist attack.
BUSH: We will not relent in our efforts to protect the American people from disease, and the use of disease as a weapon against us.
KING: Other challenges awaiting Leavitt include overseeing the president's opposition to human cloning and limits on embryonic stem- cell research.
BUSH: I'm persuaded that we can use technology and innovation to meet our most noble aspirations and not compromise our other values that we hold so dear.
KING: Leavitt now runs the Environmental Protection Agency and was governor of Utah for 11 years. Mr. Bush's biggest remaining second term personnel challenge is to find a new Secretary of Homeland Security. Former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik was Mr. Bush's choice, but he backed out Friday after acknowledging he failed to pay taxes for a nanny who was in the United States illegally. SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This issue came to the attention of Commissioner Kerik and he brought it to our attention. And he indicated that he should have brought it to our attention sooner.
KING: The White House dismissed critics who blamed a faulty vetting process, saying Kerik's background was researched for several weeks, and that the information about the nanny came to light because White House lawyers continued asking for information even after Mr. Bush tapped Kerik for the Homeland Security post.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: White House officials say their focus now is on finding a new candidate for that Homeland Security post. And Lou, tonight, White House officials saying the president will take his time, although a decision could come we're told in the next several days. They also promise to be a little extra careful about the vetting -- Lou.
DOBBS: What role will Rudy Giuliani have in putting a name forward?
KING: None. He had dinner with the president last night. The White House says there are no hard feelings. But Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York, obviously recommended Bernie Kerik. White House officials say, no hard feelings, but also that the president is not soliciting nor is Mr. Giuliani offering any new advice.
DOBBS: John King, our senior White House correspondent. Thank you, John.
DOBBS: The intelligence reform legislation now on the president's desk, still a source of controversy. My guest now, a member of the 9/11 Commission. He says this legislation is a good beginning, but will largely hinge upon whom the president appoints to direct national intelligence.
Joining me now, former senator of Nebraska, Bob Kerrey. Good to have you with us.
BOB KERREY (D), 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Nice to be with you.
DOBBS: Bob, lets start with this. Amongst those criticizing this legislation now, Senator Pat Roberts, who says effectively that the DNI as it's now constructed, director of national intelligence, doesn't have the full responsibility that he envisioned.
Do you agree?
KERREY: Well, I hope that's not true. I mean, I haven't seen the details of the legislation, but I've taken confidence from people who have that I have who I trust, key amongst them being Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton have examined the details of the legislation. I have a lot of respect for...
DOBBS: Co-chairman of the commission.
KERREY: Yes. The problem over the years has been that the person in charge of intelligence, had the responsibility, didn't have authority over budgets and personnel. And we recommended creating an individual under law that would have that kind of authority.
DOBBS: And those details, if they are details and not overwhelming elements, will be worked out in the weeks and months ahead. Congressman Duncan Hunter, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, stood forward and said this bill breaches the chain of command. He won a compromise in which four words were the ultimate result. Respect, but not abrogate.
Was that in your judgment an appropriate issue?
Do you think the resolution is convincing?
KERREY: Congressman Hunter gets my attention in a respectful way, just as a consequence of his service in Vietnam and his son's service in Iraq. So, here's a guy who's got a personal stake in this game. But my experience with intelligence is the military's the number one customer in all circumstances. And you can't find a situation in the 1990s. And indeed, the reason the military now is very much concerned about this whole incident and this whole issue, has to do with the national intelligence community response when General Schwartz Schwarzkopf came back and said, these satellites are enormously helpful in producing images that were using in a tactical way. So, I think there's no danger. And not matter what the structure is, no danger of the Department of Defense not being the primary customer for intelligence.
DOBBS: The primary customer, but as it's structured now with 80 percent of the intelligence budget, they're not only the customer but they dictate the terms of coverage and meeting the customer's needs?
KERREY: Well, I think -- there's a problem there. The reason I want -- personally have a strong NID who can manage the entire community, has both the responsibility and the authority to manage that community, is that oftentimes what we find ourselves in is a situation where you have to go to work because your intelligence is bad. So, the war fighter is the most at risk if you don't have somebody with the authority to manage this community.
DOBBS: Let's turn to Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, standing forward on driver's licenses for illegal aliens, reforming asylum and now broaching the entire issue of border security, broadly, with him standing more than a hundred Republican Congressmen in the House. They being assured by the White House and the leadership that they will move forward with significant reform for border security and immigration reform.
KERREY: I hope that Congressman Sensenbrenner will fight just as hard for full funding, so that we can train the people on the job. The 9/11 Commission reached a conclusion that we may be as much as $6 billion per year short of training people to deal with biological threats and chemical threats and other sort of threats. We're simply are not training the people we have on the job today. And I hope he'll fight just as hard to get authorization and appropriations to close this enormous gap that we have with the document that produces greater vulnerability, and that's our passports. It's still paper. We have a million people on the U.S. visit program, right now. And the reason we don't have 4 or 500 million (ph) people on it, is we are unwilling to put the money in it to get the job done.
DOBBS: An issue of money? It's also, as you know well know, with your distinguish public service, it's a matter of will. And it was an interesting revolution of the state of the will, at least, as it was expressed by representatives in Washington, both Senate and House, that with 3 million illegals estimated this year to be entering the country, with 80,000 criminal aliens in the country, with over 4,000 of them from countries that are associated with terrorism, that there is no will to deal with these issues.
Why is that?
KERREY: I think there is a will. The problem here is that you -- take New York City. When we interviewed Mayor Giuliani and Mayor Bloomberg, they estimate they half a million people who are undocumented in the city of New York.
DOBBS: New York city alone.
KERREY: Right. Of that half a million, both mayors, the former and the current mayors, say approximately 5,000 are going to break the law. So he's got 495,000 who are going to keep their nose clean, all they want is to be here legally. All they want is to get their documentation right. And they're cooperating with law enforcement to try to keep the city safe. And what the mayors say is, we're not inclined to rat them out to the feds, if they want health care and education, if they're willing to cooperate with law enforcement.
So the problem that you've got is, what do you do with that very large number who are willing to cooperate with law enforcement, if you take them off the rolls by eliminating their driver's license, you know how easy it is to forge a driver's license. What you've done, I think, is made it harder for law enforcement to do the job.
DOBBS: You've broached a host of issues that we need to discuss in fuller terms. I hope you'll come back soon and we'll do so.
KERREY: Any time.
DOBBS: Thanks for being here, Bob Kerrey.
Still ahead, the scandal of the United Nations corrupt Oil-for- Food program. New details tonight about a high profile billionaire linked to Saddam Hussein's regime. What role did the United Nations play? That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Investigators from Capitol Hill tonight intensifying their investigation of corruption in the multi-billion dollar United Nations oil-for-food program. Emerging in this scandal is billionaire Marc Rich and his 20-year relationship with Saddam Hussein's regime. Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No one knows precisely how Marc Rich became involved in the United Nations oil-for- food program. But it is clear the U.N. had more than ample warning about Rich's reputation. It is increasingly clear the U.N. ignored the warnings.
Rich made millions in deals with Iran during the American hostage crisis. He was indicted in 1983, accused of tax fraud, tax evasion, and trading with the enemy. He fled to Switzerland to avoid the prospect of prison. Yet somehow, Rich was allowed to conduct business with the U.N.'s oil-for-food program.
Documents show the U.N. had its own internal warnings about Rich's bad reputation. A 1992 U.N. memo obtained from Congressman Henry Hyde's office characterized Marc Rich as "a fugitive from justice in the United States where he faces criminal prosecution for tax fraud."
The memo says Rich's company was "a major violator of the oil embargo against South Africa and has been implicated in an arms-for- oil deal involving Chile, Iraq and South Africa." The memo adds, "those allegations have not been proven."
Yet incredibly, Rich was number 233 on the list of 1,100 companies allowed to do business with Iraq. Rich's name comes up again in a 70-page report on Saddam's finances released in 2002. That report found that from 1998, oil-for-food accounting was so murky, it was a perfect environment for graft and corruption.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And throughout our questions about Marc Rich's involvement in the oil-for-food scandal, the number of people, Lou, who would not talk far outnumbered those who would. Among those who would not talk, President Bill Clinton and the United Nations.
DOBBS: We will continue to give them an opportunity to do so. Christine, thank you.
Tonight, an outrageous protest in the fight over whether to give the millions of illegal aliens in this country valid driver's licenses. Illegal aliens in California and their supporters have decided to boycott gasoline stations. They are demanding that the state of California give them driver's licenses. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today is the day millions of Mexicans celebrate the feast of the Virgin Mary of Guadalupe, but some Latino activists are trying to turn it into a day of protest. The issue, driver's licenses for illegal aliens. NATIVO LOPEZ, MEXICAN-AMERICAN POLITICAL ASSOCIATION: Obtaining a driver's license to drive in California is a necessity. It's not a luxury.
WIAN: The Mexican-American Political Association, or MAPA, wants people of Mexican and Latino descent, to observe what they're calling dark Mondays and not buy gasoline on that day of the week.
HUGO VERA, MEXICAN-AMERICAN POLITICAL ASSOCIATION: We do expect an economic impact. We want to send a message to the administration that the Latino community is powerful. It contributes not only its labor but its dollars to the economy.
WIAN: The group is trying to pressure Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to approve a bill that would allow illegal aliens to receive California driver's licenses.
CROWD: Boycott! Boycott!
WIAN: MAPA's leader is California-born Nativo Lopez, who dropped his given first name, Larry, in favor of the Spanish word for "native" when he became active in Latino politics.
Exactly one year ago, MAPA organized a one-day Latino boycott of California schools. It did have some impact, with about 40,000 students playing hooky in Los Angeles alone, costing the school district more than $1 million in state funds.
But they've had less success organizing boycotts of businesses.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The director of California's Service Stations Association says he is concerned about the boycott, but he expects little long- term impact, because the reality of the situation is, Lou, that anybody who doesn't buy gas on Monday is probably just going to buy more on Tuesday and Wednesday -- Lou.
DOBBS: Yeah, this doesn't seem like the most sophisticated protest I ever heard of, Casey. It seems like they're simply hurting themselves, not the station operators.
WIAN: You would think so. And the organizers of this protest admitted that last year's boycott of the schools and attempted boycott of businesses failed due to lack of organization. Seems like they still have the same problem, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much, reporting from Los Angeles.
We've reported extensively here on the flood of illegal aliens into this country and our much-needed repair of our immigration policy. More than three million illegal aliens are expected to enter this year alone. And while immigration and border patrol agents are struggling to stop that invasion, parts of our economy, large parts of our economy, in fact, are working hard to encourage it. Lisa Sylvester has that part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Americans like convenience. Stores and dry cleaners open 24 hours a day. Products that are cheap. And Americans like to consume. Cheap, convenient consumer products and services are a major factor driving illegal immigration in the United States, according to labor experts.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Illegal immigration plays a role in that, in feeding low-wage employers the endless supply of labor that they need to prevent them from having to bid wages up.
SYLVESTER: A study by the Center for Immigration Studies found competition from immigrant laborers pushed wages for some Americans down 7 percent between 1980 and 2000. At the same time, global competition increases. Shareholders did not want corporations just to meet earnings forecasts, but to exceed them.
DAN STEIN, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: Now it's supposed to be quick turnaround, 35, 40 percent returns on investment. And if you have to sell out American workers in a town in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, to move it to Mexico, well, the heck with them.
SYLVESTER: The new jobs that are being created in the United States tend to be in the low-end sectors. Retail, construction and tourism. A natural draw for illegal aliens.
President Bush has proposed a guest worker program to bring the illegal population out of the shadows.
DAN GRISWOLD, CATO INSTITUTE: If we allow those workers to become legal, their wages will go up, and that will have a beneficial effect on the U.S. economy generally, but also on other workers in the lower rungs of the wage ladder.
SYLVESTER: But critics say the guest worker program will increase the labor supply, perpetuating the cycle of higher corporate profits at the expense of lower wages.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Those in favor and against a guest worker program don't agree on much, but both sides do agree that more needs to be done to educate and train Americans so they are not left behind in the face of global competition -- Lou.
DOBBS: Training again, education again. The fact is, three million illegal aliens entering the country. None of those remedies seem to solve much. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
We'll be back here in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, we thank you for being with us here tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York. CNN's coverage of the Scott Peterson sentencing continues on "ANDERSON COOPER 360," which is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 13, 2004 - 18:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: The jurors now explaining the process by which they reached their judgment, that Scott Peterson should be sentenced to death for the murder of Laci Peterson and her unborn son. We're joined now by Jeffrey Toobin to discuss this decision. It required far more time for this jury to reach a decision on the sentence than it did to reach a verdict. Are you surprised by that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: That's unusual. Usually the guilt phase is the time-consuming part of the process and the penalty phase goes pretty quickly. This jury did it the opposite way. And they obviously struggled with this decision much more than the guilt decision.
DOBBS: Have you been taken, as I have over the course of the past 45, 50 minutes now, the emotion obviously pent up by all of these jurors, each of them expressing in varying degrees some frustration, some pain, some deep, deep hurt in this?
TOOBIN: I thought this press conference was a tremendous advertisement for the American jury system. These people worked hard. They threw their souls into it. They tried to do the right thing. Perhaps we'll never know whether they in fact did the right thing. But certainly their motives and their -- the way they went about their work was honorable.
DOBBS: The word honor. As one of the jurors pointed out each of the members of this jury was, in his estimation, honorable. Worked diligently. At the same time, while you say it's an advertisement for the jury system, frankly, I have to tell you as I look at this process that took these people away from their lives for more than six months in point of fact now, that's hardly an advertisement for speedy justice, for reasonable and proportionate amount of time to spend. To me, it's less than an advertisement for the jury system.
TOOBIN: I was talking about the behavior of the jurors. I think the length of time this case took to try, the prosecution's decision to take that many months, the judge's decision to allow it, I think that was a disgrace. But that's California. Which is very different from the rest of the country. Things take much longer there. And there's no sign of it changing.
DOBBS: No sign of it changing. Justice rendered in this case, a sentence of death. Are you surprised by that sentence?
TOOBIN: I was surprised. I thought this was a case, given the absence of an eyewitness, given the absence of a cause of death, that the lingering doubt possibility would lead this jury to decide on a life without parole sentence. But this jury was horrified by this crime. They had no doubt. Not even any lingering doubt. And so they went with the maximum punishment. They really didn't like this guy.
DOBBS: Hardly a likable fellow, given the evidence that was put before them. The judgment, circumstantial as some pointed out. But most cases that are circumstantial in these types of cases?
TOOBIN: There are many, many defendants in prison based solely on circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is not bad evidence, it's not inferior evidence. It's obviously very convincing evidence in this case.
DOBBS: Another advertisement for the California court system and trial system is there won't be a final judgment on this, the judge in this case has the ability to either follow the recommendation, because in the last analysis that's what this is, a recommendation by the jury. The judge has the power to overturn that recommendation and supersede it with his own judgment, which in this case he has a choice between death and life in prison himself.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. Rarely exercised but he does have that power. It is also worth remembering that this is very likely an academic exercise. That there are more than 650 people in death row in California. California is executing people at a rate of fewer than one a year. Scott Peterson moves to the back of that line. It's overwhelmingly likely he will die of old age in prison rather than be executed.
DOBBS: The anomalies, the ironies, the utter frustrations in this case, pile high. Amongst them, the idea that this case now, it's been two years, just about two years since Laci Peterson was murdered. How is it that the American court system, and if the anomaly is the California system, so be it. But how can we expect the system to work when it takes two years from the incident to trial and conclusion, verdict and sentence?
TOOBIN: It's hard to point to one thing you could change. It's more of a cultural change. In Virginia, home of the rocket docket, this would be a three-week trial. The laws on the books aren't really that different in Virginia and California. It's just that the culture of the two communities is so different. And it leads to just completely difference in speed and justice.
DOBBS: Let's put this one murder, heinous, horrifying, in some context. There are 15,000 murders in this country each year. This case, how did it garner such attention?
TOOBIN: That I think is the question that all of us who have covered this case have struggled with. And without clear answers. The best I can come up with is that Laci Peterson, who disappeared on Christmas Eve, became a symbol of everything that is good about American womanhood and motherhood. And Scott Peterson became a symbol of everything that is bad about American males. And that paradigm pushed the case forward and kept people interested. DOBBS: And I should point out to our viewers that we are, in fact, expecting the Laci Peterson family to speak at the courthouse where Scott Peterson was first found guilty of her murder and sentenced today to death. We'll be going back to that courthouse just as soon as that news conference begins. But I want to first thank Jeffrey Toobin for bringing his insight and analysis, as always. Jeffrey, thank you very much.
Let's turn to some other news of the day. The White House today declared the controversy over the nomination and then withdrawal of Bernard Kerik as homeland security secretary to be a closed matter. Press secretary Scott McClellan said the White House remains confident about the screening procedures for its top official nominations. Kerik withdrew because of reports a family nanny was an illegal alien and failed to pay taxes. News organizations are reporting other problems as well. Today, President Bush announced another cabinet nomination, one that it would prefer to focus upon. Senior White House correspondent John King has that report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A big job shift in the Bush cabinet. But still a vacancy in one security post after an embarrassing episode for a White House that prides itself on order and discipline.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When confirmed by the Senate, Mike Leavitt will be charged with a broad agenda for the health and safety of the American people.
KING: Leavitt is the president's choice to take over the $500 billion a year Department of Health and Human Services where the challenges include medical research, Medicare overhaul, and the debate over reimportation of prescription drugs. Not to mention out going Tommy Thompson's warning that the nation's food supply is vulnerable to terrorist attack.
BUSH: We will not relent in our efforts to protect the American people from disease, and the use of disease as a weapon against us.
KING: Other challenges awaiting Leavitt include overseeing the president's opposition to human cloning and limits on embryonic stem- cell research.
BUSH: I'm persuaded that we can use technology and innovation to meet our most noble aspirations and not compromise our other values that we hold so dear.
KING: Leavitt now runs the Environmental Protection Agency and was governor of Utah for 11 years. Mr. Bush's biggest remaining second term personnel challenge is to find a new Secretary of Homeland Security. Former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik was Mr. Bush's choice, but he backed out Friday after acknowledging he failed to pay taxes for a nanny who was in the United States illegally. SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This issue came to the attention of Commissioner Kerik and he brought it to our attention. And he indicated that he should have brought it to our attention sooner.
KING: The White House dismissed critics who blamed a faulty vetting process, saying Kerik's background was researched for several weeks, and that the information about the nanny came to light because White House lawyers continued asking for information even after Mr. Bush tapped Kerik for the Homeland Security post.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: White House officials say their focus now is on finding a new candidate for that Homeland Security post. And Lou, tonight, White House officials saying the president will take his time, although a decision could come we're told in the next several days. They also promise to be a little extra careful about the vetting -- Lou.
DOBBS: What role will Rudy Giuliani have in putting a name forward?
KING: None. He had dinner with the president last night. The White House says there are no hard feelings. But Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York, obviously recommended Bernie Kerik. White House officials say, no hard feelings, but also that the president is not soliciting nor is Mr. Giuliani offering any new advice.
DOBBS: John King, our senior White House correspondent. Thank you, John.
DOBBS: The intelligence reform legislation now on the president's desk, still a source of controversy. My guest now, a member of the 9/11 Commission. He says this legislation is a good beginning, but will largely hinge upon whom the president appoints to direct national intelligence.
Joining me now, former senator of Nebraska, Bob Kerrey. Good to have you with us.
BOB KERREY (D), 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Nice to be with you.
DOBBS: Bob, lets start with this. Amongst those criticizing this legislation now, Senator Pat Roberts, who says effectively that the DNI as it's now constructed, director of national intelligence, doesn't have the full responsibility that he envisioned.
Do you agree?
KERREY: Well, I hope that's not true. I mean, I haven't seen the details of the legislation, but I've taken confidence from people who have that I have who I trust, key amongst them being Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton have examined the details of the legislation. I have a lot of respect for...
DOBBS: Co-chairman of the commission.
KERREY: Yes. The problem over the years has been that the person in charge of intelligence, had the responsibility, didn't have authority over budgets and personnel. And we recommended creating an individual under law that would have that kind of authority.
DOBBS: And those details, if they are details and not overwhelming elements, will be worked out in the weeks and months ahead. Congressman Duncan Hunter, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, stood forward and said this bill breaches the chain of command. He won a compromise in which four words were the ultimate result. Respect, but not abrogate.
Was that in your judgment an appropriate issue?
Do you think the resolution is convincing?
KERREY: Congressman Hunter gets my attention in a respectful way, just as a consequence of his service in Vietnam and his son's service in Iraq. So, here's a guy who's got a personal stake in this game. But my experience with intelligence is the military's the number one customer in all circumstances. And you can't find a situation in the 1990s. And indeed, the reason the military now is very much concerned about this whole incident and this whole issue, has to do with the national intelligence community response when General Schwartz Schwarzkopf came back and said, these satellites are enormously helpful in producing images that were using in a tactical way. So, I think there's no danger. And not matter what the structure is, no danger of the Department of Defense not being the primary customer for intelligence.
DOBBS: The primary customer, but as it's structured now with 80 percent of the intelligence budget, they're not only the customer but they dictate the terms of coverage and meeting the customer's needs?
KERREY: Well, I think -- there's a problem there. The reason I want -- personally have a strong NID who can manage the entire community, has both the responsibility and the authority to manage that community, is that oftentimes what we find ourselves in is a situation where you have to go to work because your intelligence is bad. So, the war fighter is the most at risk if you don't have somebody with the authority to manage this community.
DOBBS: Let's turn to Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, standing forward on driver's licenses for illegal aliens, reforming asylum and now broaching the entire issue of border security, broadly, with him standing more than a hundred Republican Congressmen in the House. They being assured by the White House and the leadership that they will move forward with significant reform for border security and immigration reform.
KERREY: I hope that Congressman Sensenbrenner will fight just as hard for full funding, so that we can train the people on the job. The 9/11 Commission reached a conclusion that we may be as much as $6 billion per year short of training people to deal with biological threats and chemical threats and other sort of threats. We're simply are not training the people we have on the job today. And I hope he'll fight just as hard to get authorization and appropriations to close this enormous gap that we have with the document that produces greater vulnerability, and that's our passports. It's still paper. We have a million people on the U.S. visit program, right now. And the reason we don't have 4 or 500 million (ph) people on it, is we are unwilling to put the money in it to get the job done.
DOBBS: An issue of money? It's also, as you know well know, with your distinguish public service, it's a matter of will. And it was an interesting revolution of the state of the will, at least, as it was expressed by representatives in Washington, both Senate and House, that with 3 million illegals estimated this year to be entering the country, with 80,000 criminal aliens in the country, with over 4,000 of them from countries that are associated with terrorism, that there is no will to deal with these issues.
Why is that?
KERREY: I think there is a will. The problem here is that you -- take New York City. When we interviewed Mayor Giuliani and Mayor Bloomberg, they estimate they half a million people who are undocumented in the city of New York.
DOBBS: New York city alone.
KERREY: Right. Of that half a million, both mayors, the former and the current mayors, say approximately 5,000 are going to break the law. So he's got 495,000 who are going to keep their nose clean, all they want is to be here legally. All they want is to get their documentation right. And they're cooperating with law enforcement to try to keep the city safe. And what the mayors say is, we're not inclined to rat them out to the feds, if they want health care and education, if they're willing to cooperate with law enforcement.
So the problem that you've got is, what do you do with that very large number who are willing to cooperate with law enforcement, if you take them off the rolls by eliminating their driver's license, you know how easy it is to forge a driver's license. What you've done, I think, is made it harder for law enforcement to do the job.
DOBBS: You've broached a host of issues that we need to discuss in fuller terms. I hope you'll come back soon and we'll do so.
KERREY: Any time.
DOBBS: Thanks for being here, Bob Kerrey.
Still ahead, the scandal of the United Nations corrupt Oil-for- Food program. New details tonight about a high profile billionaire linked to Saddam Hussein's regime. What role did the United Nations play? That story is next.
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DOBBS: Investigators from Capitol Hill tonight intensifying their investigation of corruption in the multi-billion dollar United Nations oil-for-food program. Emerging in this scandal is billionaire Marc Rich and his 20-year relationship with Saddam Hussein's regime. Christine Romans has the report.
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CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No one knows precisely how Marc Rich became involved in the United Nations oil-for- food program. But it is clear the U.N. had more than ample warning about Rich's reputation. It is increasingly clear the U.N. ignored the warnings.
Rich made millions in deals with Iran during the American hostage crisis. He was indicted in 1983, accused of tax fraud, tax evasion, and trading with the enemy. He fled to Switzerland to avoid the prospect of prison. Yet somehow, Rich was allowed to conduct business with the U.N.'s oil-for-food program.
Documents show the U.N. had its own internal warnings about Rich's bad reputation. A 1992 U.N. memo obtained from Congressman Henry Hyde's office characterized Marc Rich as "a fugitive from justice in the United States where he faces criminal prosecution for tax fraud."
The memo says Rich's company was "a major violator of the oil embargo against South Africa and has been implicated in an arms-for- oil deal involving Chile, Iraq and South Africa." The memo adds, "those allegations have not been proven."
Yet incredibly, Rich was number 233 on the list of 1,100 companies allowed to do business with Iraq. Rich's name comes up again in a 70-page report on Saddam's finances released in 2002. That report found that from 1998, oil-for-food accounting was so murky, it was a perfect environment for graft and corruption.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And throughout our questions about Marc Rich's involvement in the oil-for-food scandal, the number of people, Lou, who would not talk far outnumbered those who would. Among those who would not talk, President Bill Clinton and the United Nations.
DOBBS: We will continue to give them an opportunity to do so. Christine, thank you.
Tonight, an outrageous protest in the fight over whether to give the millions of illegal aliens in this country valid driver's licenses. Illegal aliens in California and their supporters have decided to boycott gasoline stations. They are demanding that the state of California give them driver's licenses. Casey Wian reports.
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CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today is the day millions of Mexicans celebrate the feast of the Virgin Mary of Guadalupe, but some Latino activists are trying to turn it into a day of protest. The issue, driver's licenses for illegal aliens. NATIVO LOPEZ, MEXICAN-AMERICAN POLITICAL ASSOCIATION: Obtaining a driver's license to drive in California is a necessity. It's not a luxury.
WIAN: The Mexican-American Political Association, or MAPA, wants people of Mexican and Latino descent, to observe what they're calling dark Mondays and not buy gasoline on that day of the week.
HUGO VERA, MEXICAN-AMERICAN POLITICAL ASSOCIATION: We do expect an economic impact. We want to send a message to the administration that the Latino community is powerful. It contributes not only its labor but its dollars to the economy.
WIAN: The group is trying to pressure Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to approve a bill that would allow illegal aliens to receive California driver's licenses.
CROWD: Boycott! Boycott!
WIAN: MAPA's leader is California-born Nativo Lopez, who dropped his given first name, Larry, in favor of the Spanish word for "native" when he became active in Latino politics.
Exactly one year ago, MAPA organized a one-day Latino boycott of California schools. It did have some impact, with about 40,000 students playing hooky in Los Angeles alone, costing the school district more than $1 million in state funds.
But they've had less success organizing boycotts of businesses.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The director of California's Service Stations Association says he is concerned about the boycott, but he expects little long- term impact, because the reality of the situation is, Lou, that anybody who doesn't buy gas on Monday is probably just going to buy more on Tuesday and Wednesday -- Lou.
DOBBS: Yeah, this doesn't seem like the most sophisticated protest I ever heard of, Casey. It seems like they're simply hurting themselves, not the station operators.
WIAN: You would think so. And the organizers of this protest admitted that last year's boycott of the schools and attempted boycott of businesses failed due to lack of organization. Seems like they still have the same problem, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much, reporting from Los Angeles.
We've reported extensively here on the flood of illegal aliens into this country and our much-needed repair of our immigration policy. More than three million illegal aliens are expected to enter this year alone. And while immigration and border patrol agents are struggling to stop that invasion, parts of our economy, large parts of our economy, in fact, are working hard to encourage it. Lisa Sylvester has that part of the story.
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LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Americans like convenience. Stores and dry cleaners open 24 hours a day. Products that are cheap. And Americans like to consume. Cheap, convenient consumer products and services are a major factor driving illegal immigration in the United States, according to labor experts.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Illegal immigration plays a role in that, in feeding low-wage employers the endless supply of labor that they need to prevent them from having to bid wages up.
SYLVESTER: A study by the Center for Immigration Studies found competition from immigrant laborers pushed wages for some Americans down 7 percent between 1980 and 2000. At the same time, global competition increases. Shareholders did not want corporations just to meet earnings forecasts, but to exceed them.
DAN STEIN, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: Now it's supposed to be quick turnaround, 35, 40 percent returns on investment. And if you have to sell out American workers in a town in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, to move it to Mexico, well, the heck with them.
SYLVESTER: The new jobs that are being created in the United States tend to be in the low-end sectors. Retail, construction and tourism. A natural draw for illegal aliens.
President Bush has proposed a guest worker program to bring the illegal population out of the shadows.
DAN GRISWOLD, CATO INSTITUTE: If we allow those workers to become legal, their wages will go up, and that will have a beneficial effect on the U.S. economy generally, but also on other workers in the lower rungs of the wage ladder.
SYLVESTER: But critics say the guest worker program will increase the labor supply, perpetuating the cycle of higher corporate profits at the expense of lower wages.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Those in favor and against a guest worker program don't agree on much, but both sides do agree that more needs to be done to educate and train Americans so they are not left behind in the face of global competition -- Lou.
DOBBS: Training again, education again. The fact is, three million illegal aliens entering the country. None of those remedies seem to solve much. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
We'll be back here in just a moment. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Well, we thank you for being with us here tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York. CNN's coverage of the Scott Peterson sentencing continues on "ANDERSON COOPER 360," which is next.
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