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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Violence Continues in Iraq; Bush Acknowledges Spoken Blunders; Senators Propose Raising Death Benefit for Military Families; FDA Denies Over the Counter Status for Cholesterol Drug

Aired January 14, 2005 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, blood Iraq. A new wave of attacks against American troops and Iraqis. We'll tell you why the violence is escalating.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: There are terrorists in Iraq that need to be defeated. We're determined to do that.

PILGRIM: Dangerous drugs. Federal health advisers make a ruling that affects millions of Americans at risk of heart disease.

Importing teachers, why school districts in American cities are aggressively recruiting our teachers overseas to teach our children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're great teachers. They're effective in the classroom, and we can get them to stay.

PILGRIM: And out of this world. The first pictures of the surface of Saturn's moon, Titan, what those images show and whether they provide any clues about the origin of life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Announcer: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, January 14. Here for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening.

Three American troops have been killed in escalating violence in Iraq. Insurgents also launched new attacks against Iraqi security forces.

A senior American commander today declared the troops will capture or kill the al Qaeda leader in Iraq, quote, "sooner or later."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): The latest assault on American troops was in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Insurgents attacked a military convoy with a roadside bomb. One soldier was killed; three others were wounded.

The Pentagon today also confirmed the deaths of two Marines in combat in al-Anbar province.

In Baghdad, American troops had a lucky escape when an improvised explosive device knocked over their armored vehicle. This was just the latest of a series of attacks ahead of Iraq's election.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The insurgency will only be defeated on the ground by military force, police force, but also the political force that comes with a free election where people now know they are defending their own government against these insurgents.

PILGRIM: Insurgents today also attacked Iraqi National Guardsmen. Fifteen guardsmen were kidnapped from their bus in western Iraq. The bus was heading to an American military base.

The United States today responding to criticism that Iraq is now a breeding ground for terrorists.

BOUCHER: Terrorists are coming to Iraq and carrying out -- carrying out horrible murders and actions. If you want to call that training, call it training. We call it murder.

PILGRIM: There was also a jailbreak in Iraq today. Twenty-eight criminals held by Iraqis escaped from a bus. Officials believe the guards had a hand in the escape. About a dozen prisoners were later recaptured.

Insurgents also targeted Iraq's infrastructure. A bomb blew up an oil pipeline in northern Iraq.

As the violence escalated, hundreds of Iraqis today attended the funeral of an aide to Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. He is Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric and a strong supporter of the election. Insurgents killed two Sistani aides in two days this week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Sunni terrorists are stepping up their campaign to stop the election. That election is expected to give Shiite political parties control of Iraq for the first time.

Well, President Bush has acknowledged for the first time that he has second thoughts about two controversial statements he made during his first term. The president made his admission during an interview with regional newspapers.

Elaine Quijano reports from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's joked about his plainspokenness many times and even made it a part of his stump speech.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes I am a little too blunt. I get that from my mother.

QUIJANO: Now, President Bush, who last year struggled to name a mistake he had made...

BUSH: I just haven't -- you just put me under the spot here.

QUIJANO: ... says he can think of two times when he wished he would have chosen his words more carefully. Once when he discussed insurgents in Iraq just months after the U.S.-led invasion of that country.

BUSH: There are some who feel like that, you know, the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is bring 'em on.

QUIJANO: In an interview airing tonight on ABC's "20/20," Mr. Bush expressed second thoughts about that statement.

BUSH: I said some things in the first term that probably were a little blunt. "Bring it on" was a little blunt. I was really speaking to our troops, but it came out and it had a different connotation, a different meaning for others. And so I've got to be -- I'll be more disciplined in how I say things.

QUIJANO: Another time happened in the days after September 11 at the Pentagon, when Mr. Bush said this of Osama bin Laden.

BUSH: I want justice, and there's an old poster out west, as I recall that said, "Wanted: dead or alive."

QUIJANO: The president candidly admitted that phrase raised the ire of the first lady.

BUSH: It's just not the most diplomatic of language. Laura, as a matter of fact, chewed me out right after that. So, I do have to be cautious about, you know, conveying thoughts in a way, maybe, that doesn't send wrong impressions about our country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now, the president said he didn't know if his acknowledgement of poor word choice should be called a regret, a confession, or simply a lesson. And while he expressed misgivings about the language he used, he also made clear he had no regrets about the actions he took -- Kitty.

DOBBS: All right. Thanks very much. Elaine Quijano.

A leading U.S. senator plans to introduce legislation to sharply increase the death benefit for American troops killed in combat. Senator Jeff Sessions wants to increase the benefit to $100,000. And that's up from $12,000.

Congressional correspondent Joe Johns reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For military families, it's the very worst that could happen, a loved one in uniform far from home, killed in a combat zone.

Right now, when a member of the military is killed in action, the government gives the family a funeral with full military honors, a folded American flag, and a check for $12,000 to cover their immediate needs.

Senator Jeff Sessions calls that woefully inadequate for people making the ultimate sacrifice.

SEN. JEFF SESSION (R), ALABAMA: They're so proud, they don't ask for anything. They accept what they're given. But it just -- as the months have gone by and I've looked at the numbers, we see other people getting far, far more than soldiers do when they give their life in defense of their country.

JOHNS: Sessions and co-sponsor Democrat Joe Lieberman want to increase the death benefit for combat zone deaths from $12,000 to $100,000. With military recruitment becoming more difficult and concerns growing about the number of people leaving the service, the measure to be introduced is seen as overdue.

It would make the changes retroactive to cover Americans already lost in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, at a cost of more than $400 million in the first year. Advocates don't anticipate much of a fight over the price tag in the Congress because of how constituents might react.

ADM. NORBERT R. RYAN (RET.), MILITARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: We know that the average American citizen wants to send a signal to these young men and women desperately that they are truly valued and that their service and their sacrifice is on a pedestal.

JOHNS: Still, there are unresolved issues. Kathy Moakler is an expert on survivor benefits for the National Military Family Association. She and her counterparts from similar groups are already questioning whether the government should make distinctions on death benefits between service members killed in combat zones and those who die in training accidents or from illness while on active duty.

KATHY MOAKLER, NATIONAL MILITARY FAMILY ASSOCIATION: We consider that all service members are on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

JOHNS: Sessions and Lieberman are also proposing an increase in life insurance for all service members up to $400,000. Right now the maximum coverage is $250,000.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: A couple Republican senators are talking about increasing the death benefit for anyone on active duty, so there could be competing proposals when the Congress gets down to serious work -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Joe Johns. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll, "Would you support legislation to increase the death benefit from $12,000 to $100,000 for American troops killed in combat?" Yes or no, cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the show.

Tonight, a major development involving a cholesterol drug taken by millions of Americans. Advisers to the Food and Drug Administration today warned that Merck's Mevacor should not be sold over the counter.

Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us live with the report on this -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, this advisory committee sends a very strong message. They voted 20-3 that Mevacor, the popular statin or cholesterol-lowering drug, should not be allowed over the counter. In other words, it would continue to be allowed only by prescription.

There are concerns that studies show that if it were to be offered over the counter, that the wrong people would take it. Also, that some women who didn't realize they were pregnant would take it and would damage their fetus.

And finally, that even if it was the right people taking it, even if it was people who have high cholesterol and were suitable to be taking Mevacor, that they might not follow up with their doctor and have tests to see that they weren't having side effects, such as liver damage -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Elizabeth, we've heard the criticism that the FDA is too soft on the drug companies. Is this decision a sign that there's a new way to get tough? The FDA is getting a big tougher?

COHEN: Well, in some ways it's not a sign, because the -- an FDA advisory committee did the same vote, not the same numbers, but voted not to allow a statin drug off -- to go over the counter in 2000, you know. So five years ago, they did the same thing.

But it is important -- many experts, many FDA watchers have said, you know, it would be very tough for them to allow this over the counter in the current climate where people are saying the FDA is just too easy. That would be a very tough thing for them to do, and that's why everyone expects the FDA to follow the recommendations of that advisory committee.

PILGRIM: OK. Thanks very much.

Elizabeth Cohen.

And we will have much more ahead on this cholesterol drug decision. A leading cardiologist will tell us how the decision will impact millions of Americans with high cholesterol. "Extreme Weather" sweeping across much of the country tonight, causing chaos from California to Ohio. Coming up, what some residents are doing to survive.

And revealing "Titan's Secrets." Stunning news from Saturn's largest moon, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Tonight, extreme weather is causing havoc in several parts of the country. In Ohio, a blast of cold air is freezing floodwaters left over from several days of heavy rain.

Alina Cho is live in Marietta, Ohio, with this report -- Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, it is frigidly cold here. It barely broke 20 degrees here in Marietta, Ohio. That's a big change from yesterday when it broke 70 degrees.

Cold but dry. And that is good news for people here in Marietta. You know, forecasters were saying that they were going to get about an inch of rain last night. That would have sent the Ohio River just behind me spilling over its banks. Thankfully they didn't get that rain in large measure, and residents are breathing a big sigh of relief.

Not so such news about 100 miles north of here near Canton where about 3,200 residents are said to be still isolated by the flooding. In Dayton and Columbus, some reports of flooding as well. Stretches of two major highways are closed near Columbus. That is according to the Army Corps of Engineers.

Back here in Marietta, though, we can tell you that the Ohio River crested at about 36 inches today. That is about 20 inches above normal. It is the second major flood here in four months and the worst in 40 years.

Marietta, by the way, is Ohio's oldest city, and it is at the center really of two rivers, the two largest rivers in the state, the Ohio and the Muskingum Rivers. The water here really is what gives the city its charm, but it also gives the residents, especially at these times, a lot of headaches -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks, Alina. What a mess.

In California, hundreds of people abandoned their homes after a dam break on the Santa Ana River. That's just the latest emergency in California after more than a week of extreme weather. Eric Philips is live in Corona, California, with the report -- Eric.

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, good evening.

The good news is coming from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers who say that the seepage at the Prado Dam is under control at this hour and not posing a threat. What that means is residents who were evacuated today may be allowed back to their homes. The seepage that was causing the problem came from a barrier that was surrounding construction at the dam.

The leak was first discovered early yesterday morning, and workers with the Army Corps of Engineers kept an eye on it all day long. When they realized the amount of water escaping was increasing exponentially, they notified local authorities who made the call to evacuate more than 800 homes that could have been in danger.

A police spokesperson tells me officers went door to door making sure everyone got the word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JERRY RODRIGUEZ, CORONA POLICE: If we don't do everything and, you know, worst-case scenario, the dam, you know, breaks or the water flows through where it floods the basin and people get hurt, then I think we've got ourselves in trouble. So, yes, it's a minor inconvenience, but I think, in the long run, it's the safe thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIPS: Officials tell us that water levels at the dam were at an all-time high -- or, I should say, near record high because of the rainfall they've received here lately. What they did was they drained millions of gallons of water from the dam to relieve some of the pressure there. They're telling us that they hope by noon on Monday that the seepage won't be a problem because the levels in the dam will have decreased enough where that shouldn't pose a threat whatsoever.

Meanwhile, we're waiting for a press conference to begin at this hour where residents will find out if, in fact, they'll be allowed to return to their homes -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Eric Philips.

Well, the severe rains in California have also damaged one of the world's most famous golf courses. Part of the 18th fairway at Pebble Beach has fallen away. The PGA says a 200-square-foot rough has dropped into the Pacific waters. Well, the PGA says the erosion is about 300 yards away from the tee, and it's not expected to impact next month pro-am tournament there.

Tonight, a milestone in space. What scientists are learning about one of our solar system's most fascinating moons. That's next.

And "The China Syndrome." How our nation's free trade with China is devastating Americans all over the country. The head of a special government commission is my guest next.Well,

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: After a seven-year journey, the Huygens space probe, which is a joint venture between NASA and the European Space Agency, has landed on the surface of Saturn's largest moon, Titan. Now scientists are hoping that this mission, more than two billion miles away, will provide clues about the origins of life here on earth.

Well, our Space Correspondent Miles O'Brien joins us now with the details on that -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the big question that scientists had today before Huygens pierced the haze, which perpetually enshrouds this moon, Titan, was could it be perhaps like putting a very early earth some four billion years ago into a deep freeze, and there's no reason to believe that isn't the case after seeing what we saw today.

The Huygens probe -- this is what happened about 12 hours ago -- down it went into that thick haze, about three parachutes, 12,000 miles an hour, 3,500 degrees, 12 scientific instruments taking pictures, sniffing the atmosphere, measuring the wind, radioing it all back to NASA's Cassini spacecraft, which was the mothership, and then ultimately back to the European Space Agency control room in Darmstad, Germany.

The amazing thing is that all of this worked as they planned it because, when you think about what's happening some 750 million miles from us, it's amazing that it all went off without a hitch. Take a look as some of these images. Now it takes a little bit of explanation, but these are really amazing pictures.

And what you're seeing along here essentially are riverbeds, and that's very exciting for scientists. Now we're not talking about water riverbeds. It's 290 degrees below zero Fahrenheit on Titan. You wouldn't want to be there. It is very likely that those are methane gullies, and this is the shoreline to perhaps a methane sea.

So, in other words, it would be like being on the Great Lakes, Lake Michigan, and having it filled with paint thinner. Now look at these images as we get a little bit closer. These are the ones that really, really surprised scientists.

Look at the one on the right. It kind looks like some of the images we've seen from Mars and the Mars Rovers over the past year or so. You see the rocks or, I should say, what appear to be rocks. Some of them flat, some of them round. Take a look at the horizon off in the distance, clearer than they thought.

Beneath that haze, at least they got some visibility, a little better than they expected.

The question is what are those rocks doing there. No one predicted that. Or are they perhaps just balls of ice. Big questions for the scientists as they try to figure out what happened on Titan, whether Titan maybe is earth in a time capsule form.

This is -- one on the left here shows it at, you know, sort of airliner height. This puts the horizon right in that area right there. This is sort of the first draft of writing a new chapter in the space history books, Kitty, and scientists are just now trying to figure out what they're seeing and how they can relate that to their overall quest, kind of understanding where we fit into this whole big picture.

PILGRIM: Miles, quick question. This is a very fancy piece of equipment, as you have pointed out. What's the lifespan of it? How long will we get data from this?

O'BRIEN: It's done. It did its thing. It lasted -- it sent back its images for two-and-a-half hours or so, plus a little bit of bonus time on the surface, as you saw, which is kind of gravy, and then off went Cassini, and then the batteries slowly died on Huygens.

It was amazing when you think that people on this mission spent upwards of 20 years -- 20-plus years -- all for a two-hour moment, and everything had to go right, and it did.

PILGRIM: They'll be poring over those pictures. Origins of life? Any indication that may come out in the data later?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's hard to say. I mean, you can't rule out the possibility that maybe at one time or another, it was warmer there or perhaps there is something subterranean heated up by a hot core which might support some kind of small microbe. That could be the groundwork for the next mission to Titan.

PILGRIM: Thanks a lot.

Miles O'Brien.

Thank you, Miles.

Well, selling a popular prescription drug over the counter. The FDA is considering just that, and we'll talk to a leading physician.

Also ahead, "The China Syndrome." A threat to our jobs and safety? I'll be joined by the head of a special commission investigating the impact of our policies with China.

And "Heroes." One soldier who was fighting two battles at once -- one for the military and one for his own life. His incredible story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: In a moment, how China is hurting so many industries in this country. I'll talk with the head of a special commission of our trade policies with China.

But, first, these stories.

A military jury tonight has found Army Specialist Charles Graner guilty of abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad. Graner was found guilty on nine out of 10 counts. His was the ringleader of the group that abused Iraqi prisoners. Graner is the first person to be tried in the scandal. A search-and-rescue mission is underway tonight in Park City, Utah, after an avalanche struck just outside a ski resort there. Officials say at least one or two people are missing. The avalanche happened in an area used by back-country skiers.

And a setback to the Middle East peace process. Tonight, Israeli Prime Minister Sharon has cut all contact with the newly elected Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. The move follows a Palestinian terrorist attack yesterday that killed six Israelis.

A special commission investigating the impact of our trade policies with China found that China trade is hurting a broad array of industries all across the country.

My next guest is leading that commission, and he says one solution is to enforce our laws and to make China live up to its side of trade agreements. Michael Wessel is the commissioner of the U.S. Economic and Security Review Commission, and he joins me tonight from Washington.

And thanks very much for being with us.

MICHAEL WESSEL, COMMISSIONER, U.S.-CHINA COMMISSION: Great to be here. Thank you.

PILGRIM: Is it as simple as this, they're just not living up to their part of the deal on World -- on the WTO agreement?

WESSEL: Well, that's part of it, and that's really the first step that we have to take, which is to enforce our trade laws. Yesterday in Seattle, we had our fourth hearing of field hearings around the country, and we heard from high-tech, from agriculture, from forest products.

We've seen industries all across this country, not just the old rust-built industries that everyone said were going to go away after the information age, but we're seeing aerospace, we're seeing software, everyone being hit by the China problem.

PILGRIM: And what are they saying? What are they -- what are they saying?

WESSEL: Well, you know, many of them -- you know, some of them don't want to participate because they're scared of retaliation by the Chinese, that the Chinese have a very direct way of dealing with companies that criticize them in any way. But most of them are asking that the laws on the books be enforced.

Right now, whether it's the China currency problem, where they get basically a 40 percent subsidy to come into our market and we pay 40 percent more to send products to them, or whether it's the rampant piracy of our high-tech software, movies, those kinds of products, China right now is getting off scot-free. They made a number of agreements they were going to abide by, certain international trade rules, they're not living up to them, but in large part because we're not enforcing the rules. PILGRIM: The intellectual property issue is huge and the rip-off of DVDs and CDs is rampant as you say. What is being done and will we get results? Or is this just shouting banely at them?

WESSEL: Again, at the end of the day, they're profiting, so there's no real reason for them to change what they're doing. Until they see a cost for them, they're going to continue as they are. They've just made some changes, change in the laws in China, but that's at the federal level. At the provincial level, you see rampant corruption, on the streets you can buy software and DVDs at a fraction of the cost, and it's costing our manufacturers, our high-tech workers, or movie industry billions and billions every year and that ultimately is going to mean those jobs will move there.

China has now said that for their government, they're not going to buy foreign software, and we're helping to create one of our worst competitors.

PILGRIM: Let's talk about aerospace, it's very big in Seattle and the northwest. You heard from Boeing, both from workers and executives. Were you hearing the same message from both sides of the company?

WESSEL: Well, I hate to say that the Boeing leadership, like other companies, chose not to participate in the hearing, but we did hear from the investment banking firms that watch this industry as well as the workers, and they're scared to death of what's going to happen. The crown jewel of this economy in terms -- or of the aerospace industry is the wings and integrating a plane. We're now told that within another couple years, China will start producing their own planes. We've helped them become a competitor. Now we find that they'll start producing this on their own. At the end of the day, that market's probably not going to be worth much to us at all unless we do something about it pretty quick and tell them it has to stop. We're not going to continue shipping our jobs there, we don't give them our R&D facilities, which are going at the rate of 200 a year, and we're not going to teach them how to make the products we'd like to be making here.

PILGRIM: Michael, many companies are simply building factories in China. Are they telling you that's the way they have to do business now? Is that their only alternative? What's the reason for doing that?

WESSEL: Some of them are trying to find the China price. When you have workers willing to work for 70, 80 cents an hour, they get free housing and you can find 1.3 billion of them, that's an attractive place to go when our wages and benefits are much higher, but a lot of the companies are going there, because they're being told by the Chinese if you want to sell in this market you have to be here. You're creating joint ventures. At the end of the day we're teaching them how to be our worst competitors. Our auto industry, the big three all have joint ventures over there. Boeing, other companies are all over there. Motorola, a billion-dollar chip fabrication facility. At the end of the day, because the Chinese people don't make much money, at the end of the day, those products will really be coming here, which is probably why we'll have a $150 billion trade deficit with China alone for this year.

PILGRIM: Michael, it's a big issue and we wish you luck sorting it out. It's not an easy task. Thanks for joining us tonight. Michael Wessel.

WESSEL: Appreciate it.

PILGRIM: In heroes tonight, army specialist Eric McNail fought with the 101st Airborne Division in Iraq and at the time however didn't know he was also fighting a life-threatening illness. Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A year ago Specialist Eric McNail was in Iraq a year ago, nearing the end of a long deployment. He was fighting two enemies, Iraqis and debilitating pain that had started more than six months earlier.

SPEC. ERIC MCNAIL, U.S. ARMY: It was a horrible experience because I didn't know if I was hit. I thought maybe I'd been hit with a round or shrapnel, but it made me immediately drop off my cot into a fetal position. The only thing I wanted to do was have the pain go away.

WIAN: McNail experienced a headache worse than anything he had felt before. After a few minutes it went away but would return and again without warning. Army medics prescribed Motrin and he toughed it out. He finished the mission and returned home. Doctors kept telling him it was stress and he believed them until one day he got a cold.

MCNAIL: I was embarrassed. I have headaches, big deal. He says, I know you've been having them for a long time. I'm going to give you a cat scan to rule out anything nasty. They found a large malignant-looking tumor in my brain.

WIAN: McNail was in surgery the next morning with a 50/50 chance of survival. The operation was a success, but it left him a changed man.

MCNAIL: I can't drive. It's hard for me to get overstimulated. I can't focus on different things. I have to use a cane to walk, because I'll lose my balance and it comes quickly.

WIAN: Because of his disabilities, McNail will be discharged from the army this year.

JENNIFER MCNAIL, WIFE: We have a lot to look forward to. In all the things we've gone through have only made us stronger. We can get through anything now.

WIAN: The McNails are looking forward to returning home to Massachusetts and the arrival of a baby daughter due in May. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: We wish him luck.

Tonight's thought is on America. "We defend and we build a way of life not for America alone but for all mankind."

Still to come tonight, our special report, overmedicated nation, are pharmaceutical companies the third wheel when it comes to doctor/patient relationships?

And then American school districts importing teachers from overseas, how the trend is affecting our children and their education. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now we conclude our series of special reports on the overmedicated nation, and we focus on the complicated relationships between the more than 850,000 doctors in this country and the drug industry. Christine Romans reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Dr. Kyra Geraci, free drug samples are invaluable to her patients but her hospitality to drug representatives has limits.

DR. KYRA GERACI, ALLERGIST/IMMUNOLOGIST: The rep who comes in here who thinks they're going to change what I do, they're out the door. And they know that. And the doctor sets the pace for that.

ROMANS: Dr. Raquel Watkins teaches medical residents how to set that pace. She is so concerned about potential drug companies seductions through free samples and gifts she created a class on resisting the temptation.

DR. RAQUEL WATKINS, WAKE FOREST UNIV. MEDICAL CTR.: Many doctors don't perceive their vulnerability to marketing yet there's an abundance of evidence that shows that marketing works and it can affect the prescribing patterns of doctors.

ROMANS: Teaching residents is a first step. The Association of American Medical Colleges also wants to eliminate confidentiality agreements between research doctors and drugmakers and find new ways to educate doctors without drug company money.

DR. JORDAN COHEN, ASSN. OF AMER. MEDICAL COLLEGES: There is no reason why the profession should need to depend upon pharmaceutical largess or industry largess in order to provide the kind of education that's clearly needed and needed increasingly as medicine becomes more and more complex.

ROMANS: Today, much of a doctor's education after medical school is funded by the drugmakers. It puts doctors between patients and drug company profits. DR. MARCIA ANGELL, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: My sympathy for the doctors is tempered by the fact that they are willingly taking the blandishments from the pharmaceutical industry, tens of billions go to what the industry calls the education of doctors, but really is marketing to doctors.

ROMANS: That marketing tapped $21 billion in 2003. Dr. Geraci says all that promotion is nothing more than background noise to her.

GERACI: You go to conventions, in your offices, everywhere you go, there's something with a drug company name on it. After a while you're tuned out to it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: For doctors and patients eager for unbiased information there are now more sources than ever. The doctors we talked to for this piece, they subscribe to the "Medical Letter," it's a non-profit newsletter and they use Micromedex, which is available in many libraries. Now for patients consumer reports and "Public Citizen" have new guides for the best and cheapest drugs. They both allow patients to go type in the kind of drug you're using and it will give you all the different costs and benefits of different drugs out there as well.

PILGRIM: This is enormously complicated. Doctors are very busy these days.

ROMANS: Doctors are very busy. They've got high overhead, nursing shortages, all kinds of things to deal with, and more and more patients coming in to them with a lot of information and misinformation about their drugs, so doctors are saying they're seeing more of a partnership with their patients now than ever before.

PILGRIM: Interesting. Thanks very much. Christine Romans.

Well, more now on a key decision involving a popular cholesterol drug. An FDA advisory panel today rejected over-the-counter sales of Mevacor. Joining me now for more on the decision is a leading cardiologist Dr. Ira Nash, an associate director of Mount Sinai's Hospital Cardiovascular Institute. This is a big decision because so many people need these types of drugs. What are we talking about in terms of numbers?

DR. IRA NASH, CARDIOLOGIST: Millions of people. What we know is that cholesterol is a major risk factor for the development of cardiovascular disease. Heart disease, stroke, peripheral vascular disease. We also know that these drugs, the statin drugs work very well to lower people's risk of cardiovascular disease. Unfortunately, there's a big gap in the treatment of these patients, a gap between the number of people who ought to be taking these drugs and who would benefit from them and the number of people actually getting them.

PILGRIM: Over-the-counter seems theoretically like a great idea, yet the FDA, the advisory panel at least voted against putting them for over-the-counter use. Do you think that's a good decision? Maybe you don't have an opinion about whether they should or not but how do you feel about?

NASH: I'm not surprised by the recommendation of the FDA advisory panel, especially in light of recent events that have gone on about the cardiovascular dangers associated with some drugs that have been out there for some time, but in a way I'm a bit disappointed. I think a great opportunity may have been missed to really have an impact on that treatment gap, to get more of these patients who we know would benefit from the drugs actually getting them.

PILGRIM: We talked to Elizabeth Cohen and she said maybe there was a little pressure not to allow them over the counter because the FDA was perceived as too soft. Yet the drug companies have a very big incentive to put it over the counter, does it not?

NASH: Absolutely. Merck, which is the manufacturer of Mevacor, is looking for a new market. Mevacor has come off patent and is available as a generic drug, so one way to look at this as a business opportunity for them to expand their market.

PILGRIM: But it's just not a great idea for people to self- diagnose and take these without a doctor's supervision, which is what might happen.

NASH: It's a new model. We think of over the counter drugs as things that people take when they have a particular ailment. You have a headache, you take an over-the-counter analgesic. If you have a stomach ache, you take an over-the-counter antacid. This would be a departure, it's asking patients to manage their own care in a long- term way that just hasn't been done before so it's not surprising that they decided to back off for now.

PILGRIM: Helping us sort it out helps, though. Thank you very much, Dr. Ira Nash.

Turning for a disturbing trend in the public education system, school districts in American cities are aggressively recruiting teachers in math, science and special education. What's troubling about that is that they're recruiting and hiring teachers from foreign countries. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pamela Poblete is a special education teacher in Washington, D.C. She came to the United States as part of a program that recruits certified teachers from The Philippines.

PAMELA POBLETE, TEACHER: Not so many opening jobs in The Philippines. There's so many teachers so they come here.

SYLVESTER: The District of Columbia has 45 teachers from The Philippines on H1b and cultural visas and is looking to expand its recruiting to Puerto Rico and Spain. The school district says the teachers have an expertise in areas that have been typically hard to fill. Math, science and special education. NICOLE WILDS, RECRUITMENT DIR., D.C. PUBLIC SCHOOL: In the past two school years, we've had approximately 30 to 40 percent of our new vacancies being special education.

SYLVESTER: Baltimore Schools recruiting director heard about D.C.'s program and signed a contract with 45 Filipino teachers for next year.

BILL BODEN, HR. OFFICER, BALTIMORE PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Our intent hopefully is that they're great teachers, effective in the classroom and we can get them to stay.

SYLVESTER: Filipino teachers are drawn to the United States because of the higher salaries. What they make in one month here it will take them working five months in The Philippines. But not everyone agrees that overseas recruiting is a good idea. Critics blasted it as another form of outsourcing that drives down U.S. wages.

RICHARD INGERSOLL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Typically outsourcing has the effect, whether intended or not, of undermining any kind of impetus to improve the salaries or working conditions in a job or an occupation.

SYLVESTER: The American Federation of Teachers says there are plenty of teachers willing to work in suburban districts but they just don't want to teach in the urban centers.

ANTONIA CORTESE, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: It's the old problem of compensation, salaries, working conditions. Many times school buildings are pretty dilapidated.

SYLVESTER: The union says the problem is not recruiting teachers, it's retaining them. And importing teachers will not fix that. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Turning now to a story stranger than fiction about a secret weapon, the Pentagon was thinking of putting its own spin on the phrase make love not war. Back in 1994 the military considered creating a non-lethal weapon that would have literally excited troops to uncontrollable lust -- the enemy's troops that is -- called the sex bomb. It was one of several ideas for non-lethal weapons.

And other ideas included giving enemy troops long-lasting bad breath, making their skin painfully sensitive to sunlight. The ideas were brought to light by the Sunshine Project which is an organization that studies biological weapons projects. None of these weapons were developed, at least none that we know of.

And President Bush, he has bold plans for a second term, so bold that members of his own party are bracing for a fight. Three leading political journalists join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: Joining me are three of the nation's leading political journalists. And from Washington, Roger Simon of "U.S. News & World Report" joins us, Karen Tumulty of "Time" magazine. And from Miami, "Ron Brownstein of the "Los Angeles Times." Thanks for being with us.

Interesting week political. And let's start with Social Security. The president launching several chat fests about proposed thinking on it, no real definite detailed, detailed plans.

Karen, I know you're doing a lot of work on this. What's your view on what's been floated so far?

KAREN TUMULTY, TIME: Well, not a lot in terms of details. Right now the president is in what he says is going to be the official -- initial phase of this campaign, which is just convincing the public that there is in fact a crisis with Social Security. That in fact the system is going to collapse if the government and Congress does not do something about it.

The problem here is that, yes, the numbers do look bad for Social Security, but not for decades. And so Democrats immediately seized upon this to accuse the president of essentially inventing a crisis as they say he did on Iraq to force what is essentially his political agenda through.

PILGRIM: You know, the numbers are a little bit boggling. They're solvent until 2042, which seems at bit far out, start to deplete in 2018, it seems a little closer. Ron, do you think this is a manufactured crisis or is this just insightful thinking?

RON BROWNSTEIN, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, crisis is a strong word for what social security faces. There is a long-term imbalance between the amount of revenue that the system is projected to bring in and the amount of the obligations that it faces, but that imbalance over the next 75 years measured as a share of the gross domestic product, Kitty, is smaller than either the cost of the president's tax cuts in the first term, or the cost of the Medicare prescription drug benefit that Congress approved.

So there is a debate. I think the larger question here for both parties is not whether you can close the financing gap in Social Security, but in effect, whether you should close the financing gap by allowing expenditures to grow.

The risk that both parties face, really, is as the baby boom ages the programs for the elderly will grow, especially Medicare, even more than Social Security, to the point where they squeeze out things that both party, either party wants to do, whether it's defense, education, investing in science. Somebody probably has to grapple with this. The question is whether the president's solution will be seen as a responsible response to that question, to that challenge.

PILGRIM: You know, and this whole issue of whether or not you could have a personal account instead, or in addition, is really complicating it a good bit. Roger, any thoughts? ROGER SIMON, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: Well, yes. As we've said, George Bush has a problem even after he convinces, if he can, the American people that there's a crisis. His next problem becomes convincing people that his solution is any solution at all, or just makes things even worse.

So far his plan is all vinegar and no honey. You get this multitrillion dollar cost in exchange for having to actively manage part of your investment in Social Security, which will not benefit Social Security for decades and decades. And the payoff is, benefit cuts.

Now, George Bush is hinting today that there won't be benefit cuts, but if there aren't benefit cuts, one wonders how on earth he intends to pay for it at all.

PILGRIM: Yeah. It's one of those things that goes round and round. And speaking of that, we have another one of those, which is WMD. And this week, no such weapons found the verdict, and yet the president says he's very happy, and he stands by his policy about invading Iraq. Is one of those undebatable debates?

Let's start with you, Karen.

TUMULTY: Well, I think this is something most of the public had figured out before the election. It was very clear months and months ago that there were not going to be weapons found in Iraq. And, you know, the public reelected George Bush anyway. So, I do think that this is not something that will -- this week's development, which was sort of the official word that the CIA had in fact quietly dropped even looking for WMD is really going to matter much.

PILGRIM: Ron, go ahead.

BROWNSTEIN: I was going to say in many ways I think the public is now judging over the Iraq War on a different set of criteria. The president has argued increasingly as the evidence did not emerge of weapons of mass that the real value here was to create a democracy in the Middle East that could encourage stability throughout the region and move other nations in the Islamic world toward democracy.

And I think in a way, the bigger threat to support for the war was the conclusion of the CIA advisory panel this week and sort of their long-term look at the globe that Iraq in fact could become a haven for global terrorism, sort of a training ground in the way that Iraq was. Ultimately, I think the verdict will be whether it contributes to stability in the region or not, rather than the WMD at this point.

SIMON: Ron is right. The president managed to pivot in the campaign away from weapons of mass destruction to the argument that even if we don't know there's weapons of mass destruction or that they don't exist, we are better off, the world and America, are safer places because Saddam Hussein is gone.

Now the CIA report that Ron just talked about says, well wait a second, in fact America may not be a safer place, because under Saddam Hussein we did not have terrorist cells operating in Iraq, and now we do. This goes to the very heart of George Bush's argument that the Iraq war was worth it. And the Iraq occupation is worth it, because it is making America safer.

PILGRIM: All right. A very serious issue, and even though we're debating it, there seems to be no answer. But thanks for helping us work through it today. Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein and Roger Simon, thanks a lot.

All right. Still a head, a preview of the stories we're planning for you Monday. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Thanks for being with us tonight.

Monday, "Assault on the Middle Class," why American families are facing more debt than ever. And a Congressman who says it's time to get tough with China.

Have a great weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired January 14, 2005 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, blood Iraq. A new wave of attacks against American troops and Iraqis. We'll tell you why the violence is escalating.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: There are terrorists in Iraq that need to be defeated. We're determined to do that.

PILGRIM: Dangerous drugs. Federal health advisers make a ruling that affects millions of Americans at risk of heart disease.

Importing teachers, why school districts in American cities are aggressively recruiting our teachers overseas to teach our children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're great teachers. They're effective in the classroom, and we can get them to stay.

PILGRIM: And out of this world. The first pictures of the surface of Saturn's moon, Titan, what those images show and whether they provide any clues about the origin of life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Announcer: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, January 14. Here for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: Good evening.

Three American troops have been killed in escalating violence in Iraq. Insurgents also launched new attacks against Iraqi security forces.

A senior American commander today declared the troops will capture or kill the al Qaeda leader in Iraq, quote, "sooner or later."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): The latest assault on American troops was in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Insurgents attacked a military convoy with a roadside bomb. One soldier was killed; three others were wounded.

The Pentagon today also confirmed the deaths of two Marines in combat in al-Anbar province.

In Baghdad, American troops had a lucky escape when an improvised explosive device knocked over their armored vehicle. This was just the latest of a series of attacks ahead of Iraq's election.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The insurgency will only be defeated on the ground by military force, police force, but also the political force that comes with a free election where people now know they are defending their own government against these insurgents.

PILGRIM: Insurgents today also attacked Iraqi National Guardsmen. Fifteen guardsmen were kidnapped from their bus in western Iraq. The bus was heading to an American military base.

The United States today responding to criticism that Iraq is now a breeding ground for terrorists.

BOUCHER: Terrorists are coming to Iraq and carrying out -- carrying out horrible murders and actions. If you want to call that training, call it training. We call it murder.

PILGRIM: There was also a jailbreak in Iraq today. Twenty-eight criminals held by Iraqis escaped from a bus. Officials believe the guards had a hand in the escape. About a dozen prisoners were later recaptured.

Insurgents also targeted Iraq's infrastructure. A bomb blew up an oil pipeline in northern Iraq.

As the violence escalated, hundreds of Iraqis today attended the funeral of an aide to Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. He is Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric and a strong supporter of the election. Insurgents killed two Sistani aides in two days this week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Sunni terrorists are stepping up their campaign to stop the election. That election is expected to give Shiite political parties control of Iraq for the first time.

Well, President Bush has acknowledged for the first time that he has second thoughts about two controversial statements he made during his first term. The president made his admission during an interview with regional newspapers.

Elaine Quijano reports from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's joked about his plainspokenness many times and even made it a part of his stump speech.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes I am a little too blunt. I get that from my mother.

QUIJANO: Now, President Bush, who last year struggled to name a mistake he had made...

BUSH: I just haven't -- you just put me under the spot here.

QUIJANO: ... says he can think of two times when he wished he would have chosen his words more carefully. Once when he discussed insurgents in Iraq just months after the U.S.-led invasion of that country.

BUSH: There are some who feel like that, you know, the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is bring 'em on.

QUIJANO: In an interview airing tonight on ABC's "20/20," Mr. Bush expressed second thoughts about that statement.

BUSH: I said some things in the first term that probably were a little blunt. "Bring it on" was a little blunt. I was really speaking to our troops, but it came out and it had a different connotation, a different meaning for others. And so I've got to be -- I'll be more disciplined in how I say things.

QUIJANO: Another time happened in the days after September 11 at the Pentagon, when Mr. Bush said this of Osama bin Laden.

BUSH: I want justice, and there's an old poster out west, as I recall that said, "Wanted: dead or alive."

QUIJANO: The president candidly admitted that phrase raised the ire of the first lady.

BUSH: It's just not the most diplomatic of language. Laura, as a matter of fact, chewed me out right after that. So, I do have to be cautious about, you know, conveying thoughts in a way, maybe, that doesn't send wrong impressions about our country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now, the president said he didn't know if his acknowledgement of poor word choice should be called a regret, a confession, or simply a lesson. And while he expressed misgivings about the language he used, he also made clear he had no regrets about the actions he took -- Kitty.

DOBBS: All right. Thanks very much. Elaine Quijano.

A leading U.S. senator plans to introduce legislation to sharply increase the death benefit for American troops killed in combat. Senator Jeff Sessions wants to increase the benefit to $100,000. And that's up from $12,000.

Congressional correspondent Joe Johns reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For military families, it's the very worst that could happen, a loved one in uniform far from home, killed in a combat zone.

Right now, when a member of the military is killed in action, the government gives the family a funeral with full military honors, a folded American flag, and a check for $12,000 to cover their immediate needs.

Senator Jeff Sessions calls that woefully inadequate for people making the ultimate sacrifice.

SEN. JEFF SESSION (R), ALABAMA: They're so proud, they don't ask for anything. They accept what they're given. But it just -- as the months have gone by and I've looked at the numbers, we see other people getting far, far more than soldiers do when they give their life in defense of their country.

JOHNS: Sessions and co-sponsor Democrat Joe Lieberman want to increase the death benefit for combat zone deaths from $12,000 to $100,000. With military recruitment becoming more difficult and concerns growing about the number of people leaving the service, the measure to be introduced is seen as overdue.

It would make the changes retroactive to cover Americans already lost in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, at a cost of more than $400 million in the first year. Advocates don't anticipate much of a fight over the price tag in the Congress because of how constituents might react.

ADM. NORBERT R. RYAN (RET.), MILITARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: We know that the average American citizen wants to send a signal to these young men and women desperately that they are truly valued and that their service and their sacrifice is on a pedestal.

JOHNS: Still, there are unresolved issues. Kathy Moakler is an expert on survivor benefits for the National Military Family Association. She and her counterparts from similar groups are already questioning whether the government should make distinctions on death benefits between service members killed in combat zones and those who die in training accidents or from illness while on active duty.

KATHY MOAKLER, NATIONAL MILITARY FAMILY ASSOCIATION: We consider that all service members are on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

JOHNS: Sessions and Lieberman are also proposing an increase in life insurance for all service members up to $400,000. Right now the maximum coverage is $250,000.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: A couple Republican senators are talking about increasing the death benefit for anyone on active duty, so there could be competing proposals when the Congress gets down to serious work -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Joe Johns. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll, "Would you support legislation to increase the death benefit from $12,000 to $100,000 for American troops killed in combat?" Yes or no, cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the show.

Tonight, a major development involving a cholesterol drug taken by millions of Americans. Advisers to the Food and Drug Administration today warned that Merck's Mevacor should not be sold over the counter.

Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us live with the report on this -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, this advisory committee sends a very strong message. They voted 20-3 that Mevacor, the popular statin or cholesterol-lowering drug, should not be allowed over the counter. In other words, it would continue to be allowed only by prescription.

There are concerns that studies show that if it were to be offered over the counter, that the wrong people would take it. Also, that some women who didn't realize they were pregnant would take it and would damage their fetus.

And finally, that even if it was the right people taking it, even if it was people who have high cholesterol and were suitable to be taking Mevacor, that they might not follow up with their doctor and have tests to see that they weren't having side effects, such as liver damage -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Elizabeth, we've heard the criticism that the FDA is too soft on the drug companies. Is this decision a sign that there's a new way to get tough? The FDA is getting a big tougher?

COHEN: Well, in some ways it's not a sign, because the -- an FDA advisory committee did the same vote, not the same numbers, but voted not to allow a statin drug off -- to go over the counter in 2000, you know. So five years ago, they did the same thing.

But it is important -- many experts, many FDA watchers have said, you know, it would be very tough for them to allow this over the counter in the current climate where people are saying the FDA is just too easy. That would be a very tough thing for them to do, and that's why everyone expects the FDA to follow the recommendations of that advisory committee.

PILGRIM: OK. Thanks very much.

Elizabeth Cohen.

And we will have much more ahead on this cholesterol drug decision. A leading cardiologist will tell us how the decision will impact millions of Americans with high cholesterol. "Extreme Weather" sweeping across much of the country tonight, causing chaos from California to Ohio. Coming up, what some residents are doing to survive.

And revealing "Titan's Secrets." Stunning news from Saturn's largest moon, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Tonight, extreme weather is causing havoc in several parts of the country. In Ohio, a blast of cold air is freezing floodwaters left over from several days of heavy rain.

Alina Cho is live in Marietta, Ohio, with this report -- Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, it is frigidly cold here. It barely broke 20 degrees here in Marietta, Ohio. That's a big change from yesterday when it broke 70 degrees.

Cold but dry. And that is good news for people here in Marietta. You know, forecasters were saying that they were going to get about an inch of rain last night. That would have sent the Ohio River just behind me spilling over its banks. Thankfully they didn't get that rain in large measure, and residents are breathing a big sigh of relief.

Not so such news about 100 miles north of here near Canton where about 3,200 residents are said to be still isolated by the flooding. In Dayton and Columbus, some reports of flooding as well. Stretches of two major highways are closed near Columbus. That is according to the Army Corps of Engineers.

Back here in Marietta, though, we can tell you that the Ohio River crested at about 36 inches today. That is about 20 inches above normal. It is the second major flood here in four months and the worst in 40 years.

Marietta, by the way, is Ohio's oldest city, and it is at the center really of two rivers, the two largest rivers in the state, the Ohio and the Muskingum Rivers. The water here really is what gives the city its charm, but it also gives the residents, especially at these times, a lot of headaches -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks, Alina. What a mess.

In California, hundreds of people abandoned their homes after a dam break on the Santa Ana River. That's just the latest emergency in California after more than a week of extreme weather. Eric Philips is live in Corona, California, with the report -- Eric.

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, good evening.

The good news is coming from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers who say that the seepage at the Prado Dam is under control at this hour and not posing a threat. What that means is residents who were evacuated today may be allowed back to their homes. The seepage that was causing the problem came from a barrier that was surrounding construction at the dam.

The leak was first discovered early yesterday morning, and workers with the Army Corps of Engineers kept an eye on it all day long. When they realized the amount of water escaping was increasing exponentially, they notified local authorities who made the call to evacuate more than 800 homes that could have been in danger.

A police spokesperson tells me officers went door to door making sure everyone got the word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JERRY RODRIGUEZ, CORONA POLICE: If we don't do everything and, you know, worst-case scenario, the dam, you know, breaks or the water flows through where it floods the basin and people get hurt, then I think we've got ourselves in trouble. So, yes, it's a minor inconvenience, but I think, in the long run, it's the safe thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIPS: Officials tell us that water levels at the dam were at an all-time high -- or, I should say, near record high because of the rainfall they've received here lately. What they did was they drained millions of gallons of water from the dam to relieve some of the pressure there. They're telling us that they hope by noon on Monday that the seepage won't be a problem because the levels in the dam will have decreased enough where that shouldn't pose a threat whatsoever.

Meanwhile, we're waiting for a press conference to begin at this hour where residents will find out if, in fact, they'll be allowed to return to their homes -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Eric Philips.

Well, the severe rains in California have also damaged one of the world's most famous golf courses. Part of the 18th fairway at Pebble Beach has fallen away. The PGA says a 200-square-foot rough has dropped into the Pacific waters. Well, the PGA says the erosion is about 300 yards away from the tee, and it's not expected to impact next month pro-am tournament there.

Tonight, a milestone in space. What scientists are learning about one of our solar system's most fascinating moons. That's next.

And "The China Syndrome." How our nation's free trade with China is devastating Americans all over the country. The head of a special government commission is my guest next.Well,

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: After a seven-year journey, the Huygens space probe, which is a joint venture between NASA and the European Space Agency, has landed on the surface of Saturn's largest moon, Titan. Now scientists are hoping that this mission, more than two billion miles away, will provide clues about the origins of life here on earth.

Well, our Space Correspondent Miles O'Brien joins us now with the details on that -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the big question that scientists had today before Huygens pierced the haze, which perpetually enshrouds this moon, Titan, was could it be perhaps like putting a very early earth some four billion years ago into a deep freeze, and there's no reason to believe that isn't the case after seeing what we saw today.

The Huygens probe -- this is what happened about 12 hours ago -- down it went into that thick haze, about three parachutes, 12,000 miles an hour, 3,500 degrees, 12 scientific instruments taking pictures, sniffing the atmosphere, measuring the wind, radioing it all back to NASA's Cassini spacecraft, which was the mothership, and then ultimately back to the European Space Agency control room in Darmstad, Germany.

The amazing thing is that all of this worked as they planned it because, when you think about what's happening some 750 million miles from us, it's amazing that it all went off without a hitch. Take a look as some of these images. Now it takes a little bit of explanation, but these are really amazing pictures.

And what you're seeing along here essentially are riverbeds, and that's very exciting for scientists. Now we're not talking about water riverbeds. It's 290 degrees below zero Fahrenheit on Titan. You wouldn't want to be there. It is very likely that those are methane gullies, and this is the shoreline to perhaps a methane sea.

So, in other words, it would be like being on the Great Lakes, Lake Michigan, and having it filled with paint thinner. Now look at these images as we get a little bit closer. These are the ones that really, really surprised scientists.

Look at the one on the right. It kind looks like some of the images we've seen from Mars and the Mars Rovers over the past year or so. You see the rocks or, I should say, what appear to be rocks. Some of them flat, some of them round. Take a look at the horizon off in the distance, clearer than they thought.

Beneath that haze, at least they got some visibility, a little better than they expected.

The question is what are those rocks doing there. No one predicted that. Or are they perhaps just balls of ice. Big questions for the scientists as they try to figure out what happened on Titan, whether Titan maybe is earth in a time capsule form.

This is -- one on the left here shows it at, you know, sort of airliner height. This puts the horizon right in that area right there. This is sort of the first draft of writing a new chapter in the space history books, Kitty, and scientists are just now trying to figure out what they're seeing and how they can relate that to their overall quest, kind of understanding where we fit into this whole big picture.

PILGRIM: Miles, quick question. This is a very fancy piece of equipment, as you have pointed out. What's the lifespan of it? How long will we get data from this?

O'BRIEN: It's done. It did its thing. It lasted -- it sent back its images for two-and-a-half hours or so, plus a little bit of bonus time on the surface, as you saw, which is kind of gravy, and then off went Cassini, and then the batteries slowly died on Huygens.

It was amazing when you think that people on this mission spent upwards of 20 years -- 20-plus years -- all for a two-hour moment, and everything had to go right, and it did.

PILGRIM: They'll be poring over those pictures. Origins of life? Any indication that may come out in the data later?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's hard to say. I mean, you can't rule out the possibility that maybe at one time or another, it was warmer there or perhaps there is something subterranean heated up by a hot core which might support some kind of small microbe. That could be the groundwork for the next mission to Titan.

PILGRIM: Thanks a lot.

Miles O'Brien.

Thank you, Miles.

Well, selling a popular prescription drug over the counter. The FDA is considering just that, and we'll talk to a leading physician.

Also ahead, "The China Syndrome." A threat to our jobs and safety? I'll be joined by the head of a special commission investigating the impact of our policies with China.

And "Heroes." One soldier who was fighting two battles at once -- one for the military and one for his own life. His incredible story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: In a moment, how China is hurting so many industries in this country. I'll talk with the head of a special commission of our trade policies with China.

But, first, these stories.

A military jury tonight has found Army Specialist Charles Graner guilty of abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad. Graner was found guilty on nine out of 10 counts. His was the ringleader of the group that abused Iraqi prisoners. Graner is the first person to be tried in the scandal. A search-and-rescue mission is underway tonight in Park City, Utah, after an avalanche struck just outside a ski resort there. Officials say at least one or two people are missing. The avalanche happened in an area used by back-country skiers.

And a setback to the Middle East peace process. Tonight, Israeli Prime Minister Sharon has cut all contact with the newly elected Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. The move follows a Palestinian terrorist attack yesterday that killed six Israelis.

A special commission investigating the impact of our trade policies with China found that China trade is hurting a broad array of industries all across the country.

My next guest is leading that commission, and he says one solution is to enforce our laws and to make China live up to its side of trade agreements. Michael Wessel is the commissioner of the U.S. Economic and Security Review Commission, and he joins me tonight from Washington.

And thanks very much for being with us.

MICHAEL WESSEL, COMMISSIONER, U.S.-CHINA COMMISSION: Great to be here. Thank you.

PILGRIM: Is it as simple as this, they're just not living up to their part of the deal on World -- on the WTO agreement?

WESSEL: Well, that's part of it, and that's really the first step that we have to take, which is to enforce our trade laws. Yesterday in Seattle, we had our fourth hearing of field hearings around the country, and we heard from high-tech, from agriculture, from forest products.

We've seen industries all across this country, not just the old rust-built industries that everyone said were going to go away after the information age, but we're seeing aerospace, we're seeing software, everyone being hit by the China problem.

PILGRIM: And what are they saying? What are they -- what are they saying?

WESSEL: Well, you know, many of them -- you know, some of them don't want to participate because they're scared of retaliation by the Chinese, that the Chinese have a very direct way of dealing with companies that criticize them in any way. But most of them are asking that the laws on the books be enforced.

Right now, whether it's the China currency problem, where they get basically a 40 percent subsidy to come into our market and we pay 40 percent more to send products to them, or whether it's the rampant piracy of our high-tech software, movies, those kinds of products, China right now is getting off scot-free. They made a number of agreements they were going to abide by, certain international trade rules, they're not living up to them, but in large part because we're not enforcing the rules. PILGRIM: The intellectual property issue is huge and the rip-off of DVDs and CDs is rampant as you say. What is being done and will we get results? Or is this just shouting banely at them?

WESSEL: Again, at the end of the day, they're profiting, so there's no real reason for them to change what they're doing. Until they see a cost for them, they're going to continue as they are. They've just made some changes, change in the laws in China, but that's at the federal level. At the provincial level, you see rampant corruption, on the streets you can buy software and DVDs at a fraction of the cost, and it's costing our manufacturers, our high-tech workers, or movie industry billions and billions every year and that ultimately is going to mean those jobs will move there.

China has now said that for their government, they're not going to buy foreign software, and we're helping to create one of our worst competitors.

PILGRIM: Let's talk about aerospace, it's very big in Seattle and the northwest. You heard from Boeing, both from workers and executives. Were you hearing the same message from both sides of the company?

WESSEL: Well, I hate to say that the Boeing leadership, like other companies, chose not to participate in the hearing, but we did hear from the investment banking firms that watch this industry as well as the workers, and they're scared to death of what's going to happen. The crown jewel of this economy in terms -- or of the aerospace industry is the wings and integrating a plane. We're now told that within another couple years, China will start producing their own planes. We've helped them become a competitor. Now we find that they'll start producing this on their own. At the end of the day, that market's probably not going to be worth much to us at all unless we do something about it pretty quick and tell them it has to stop. We're not going to continue shipping our jobs there, we don't give them our R&D facilities, which are going at the rate of 200 a year, and we're not going to teach them how to make the products we'd like to be making here.

PILGRIM: Michael, many companies are simply building factories in China. Are they telling you that's the way they have to do business now? Is that their only alternative? What's the reason for doing that?

WESSEL: Some of them are trying to find the China price. When you have workers willing to work for 70, 80 cents an hour, they get free housing and you can find 1.3 billion of them, that's an attractive place to go when our wages and benefits are much higher, but a lot of the companies are going there, because they're being told by the Chinese if you want to sell in this market you have to be here. You're creating joint ventures. At the end of the day we're teaching them how to be our worst competitors. Our auto industry, the big three all have joint ventures over there. Boeing, other companies are all over there. Motorola, a billion-dollar chip fabrication facility. At the end of the day, because the Chinese people don't make much money, at the end of the day, those products will really be coming here, which is probably why we'll have a $150 billion trade deficit with China alone for this year.

PILGRIM: Michael, it's a big issue and we wish you luck sorting it out. It's not an easy task. Thanks for joining us tonight. Michael Wessel.

WESSEL: Appreciate it.

PILGRIM: In heroes tonight, army specialist Eric McNail fought with the 101st Airborne Division in Iraq and at the time however didn't know he was also fighting a life-threatening illness. Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A year ago Specialist Eric McNail was in Iraq a year ago, nearing the end of a long deployment. He was fighting two enemies, Iraqis and debilitating pain that had started more than six months earlier.

SPEC. ERIC MCNAIL, U.S. ARMY: It was a horrible experience because I didn't know if I was hit. I thought maybe I'd been hit with a round or shrapnel, but it made me immediately drop off my cot into a fetal position. The only thing I wanted to do was have the pain go away.

WIAN: McNail experienced a headache worse than anything he had felt before. After a few minutes it went away but would return and again without warning. Army medics prescribed Motrin and he toughed it out. He finished the mission and returned home. Doctors kept telling him it was stress and he believed them until one day he got a cold.

MCNAIL: I was embarrassed. I have headaches, big deal. He says, I know you've been having them for a long time. I'm going to give you a cat scan to rule out anything nasty. They found a large malignant-looking tumor in my brain.

WIAN: McNail was in surgery the next morning with a 50/50 chance of survival. The operation was a success, but it left him a changed man.

MCNAIL: I can't drive. It's hard for me to get overstimulated. I can't focus on different things. I have to use a cane to walk, because I'll lose my balance and it comes quickly.

WIAN: Because of his disabilities, McNail will be discharged from the army this year.

JENNIFER MCNAIL, WIFE: We have a lot to look forward to. In all the things we've gone through have only made us stronger. We can get through anything now.

WIAN: The McNails are looking forward to returning home to Massachusetts and the arrival of a baby daughter due in May. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: We wish him luck.

Tonight's thought is on America. "We defend and we build a way of life not for America alone but for all mankind."

Still to come tonight, our special report, overmedicated nation, are pharmaceutical companies the third wheel when it comes to doctor/patient relationships?

And then American school districts importing teachers from overseas, how the trend is affecting our children and their education. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now we conclude our series of special reports on the overmedicated nation, and we focus on the complicated relationships between the more than 850,000 doctors in this country and the drug industry. Christine Romans reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Dr. Kyra Geraci, free drug samples are invaluable to her patients but her hospitality to drug representatives has limits.

DR. KYRA GERACI, ALLERGIST/IMMUNOLOGIST: The rep who comes in here who thinks they're going to change what I do, they're out the door. And they know that. And the doctor sets the pace for that.

ROMANS: Dr. Raquel Watkins teaches medical residents how to set that pace. She is so concerned about potential drug companies seductions through free samples and gifts she created a class on resisting the temptation.

DR. RAQUEL WATKINS, WAKE FOREST UNIV. MEDICAL CTR.: Many doctors don't perceive their vulnerability to marketing yet there's an abundance of evidence that shows that marketing works and it can affect the prescribing patterns of doctors.

ROMANS: Teaching residents is a first step. The Association of American Medical Colleges also wants to eliminate confidentiality agreements between research doctors and drugmakers and find new ways to educate doctors without drug company money.

DR. JORDAN COHEN, ASSN. OF AMER. MEDICAL COLLEGES: There is no reason why the profession should need to depend upon pharmaceutical largess or industry largess in order to provide the kind of education that's clearly needed and needed increasingly as medicine becomes more and more complex.

ROMANS: Today, much of a doctor's education after medical school is funded by the drugmakers. It puts doctors between patients and drug company profits. DR. MARCIA ANGELL, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: My sympathy for the doctors is tempered by the fact that they are willingly taking the blandishments from the pharmaceutical industry, tens of billions go to what the industry calls the education of doctors, but really is marketing to doctors.

ROMANS: That marketing tapped $21 billion in 2003. Dr. Geraci says all that promotion is nothing more than background noise to her.

GERACI: You go to conventions, in your offices, everywhere you go, there's something with a drug company name on it. After a while you're tuned out to it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: For doctors and patients eager for unbiased information there are now more sources than ever. The doctors we talked to for this piece, they subscribe to the "Medical Letter," it's a non-profit newsletter and they use Micromedex, which is available in many libraries. Now for patients consumer reports and "Public Citizen" have new guides for the best and cheapest drugs. They both allow patients to go type in the kind of drug you're using and it will give you all the different costs and benefits of different drugs out there as well.

PILGRIM: This is enormously complicated. Doctors are very busy these days.

ROMANS: Doctors are very busy. They've got high overhead, nursing shortages, all kinds of things to deal with, and more and more patients coming in to them with a lot of information and misinformation about their drugs, so doctors are saying they're seeing more of a partnership with their patients now than ever before.

PILGRIM: Interesting. Thanks very much. Christine Romans.

Well, more now on a key decision involving a popular cholesterol drug. An FDA advisory panel today rejected over-the-counter sales of Mevacor. Joining me now for more on the decision is a leading cardiologist Dr. Ira Nash, an associate director of Mount Sinai's Hospital Cardiovascular Institute. This is a big decision because so many people need these types of drugs. What are we talking about in terms of numbers?

DR. IRA NASH, CARDIOLOGIST: Millions of people. What we know is that cholesterol is a major risk factor for the development of cardiovascular disease. Heart disease, stroke, peripheral vascular disease. We also know that these drugs, the statin drugs work very well to lower people's risk of cardiovascular disease. Unfortunately, there's a big gap in the treatment of these patients, a gap between the number of people who ought to be taking these drugs and who would benefit from them and the number of people actually getting them.

PILGRIM: Over-the-counter seems theoretically like a great idea, yet the FDA, the advisory panel at least voted against putting them for over-the-counter use. Do you think that's a good decision? Maybe you don't have an opinion about whether they should or not but how do you feel about?

NASH: I'm not surprised by the recommendation of the FDA advisory panel, especially in light of recent events that have gone on about the cardiovascular dangers associated with some drugs that have been out there for some time, but in a way I'm a bit disappointed. I think a great opportunity may have been missed to really have an impact on that treatment gap, to get more of these patients who we know would benefit from the drugs actually getting them.

PILGRIM: We talked to Elizabeth Cohen and she said maybe there was a little pressure not to allow them over the counter because the FDA was perceived as too soft. Yet the drug companies have a very big incentive to put it over the counter, does it not?

NASH: Absolutely. Merck, which is the manufacturer of Mevacor, is looking for a new market. Mevacor has come off patent and is available as a generic drug, so one way to look at this as a business opportunity for them to expand their market.

PILGRIM: But it's just not a great idea for people to self- diagnose and take these without a doctor's supervision, which is what might happen.

NASH: It's a new model. We think of over the counter drugs as things that people take when they have a particular ailment. You have a headache, you take an over-the-counter analgesic. If you have a stomach ache, you take an over-the-counter antacid. This would be a departure, it's asking patients to manage their own care in a long- term way that just hasn't been done before so it's not surprising that they decided to back off for now.

PILGRIM: Helping us sort it out helps, though. Thank you very much, Dr. Ira Nash.

Turning for a disturbing trend in the public education system, school districts in American cities are aggressively recruiting teachers in math, science and special education. What's troubling about that is that they're recruiting and hiring teachers from foreign countries. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pamela Poblete is a special education teacher in Washington, D.C. She came to the United States as part of a program that recruits certified teachers from The Philippines.

PAMELA POBLETE, TEACHER: Not so many opening jobs in The Philippines. There's so many teachers so they come here.

SYLVESTER: The District of Columbia has 45 teachers from The Philippines on H1b and cultural visas and is looking to expand its recruiting to Puerto Rico and Spain. The school district says the teachers have an expertise in areas that have been typically hard to fill. Math, science and special education. NICOLE WILDS, RECRUITMENT DIR., D.C. PUBLIC SCHOOL: In the past two school years, we've had approximately 30 to 40 percent of our new vacancies being special education.

SYLVESTER: Baltimore Schools recruiting director heard about D.C.'s program and signed a contract with 45 Filipino teachers for next year.

BILL BODEN, HR. OFFICER, BALTIMORE PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Our intent hopefully is that they're great teachers, effective in the classroom and we can get them to stay.

SYLVESTER: Filipino teachers are drawn to the United States because of the higher salaries. What they make in one month here it will take them working five months in The Philippines. But not everyone agrees that overseas recruiting is a good idea. Critics blasted it as another form of outsourcing that drives down U.S. wages.

RICHARD INGERSOLL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Typically outsourcing has the effect, whether intended or not, of undermining any kind of impetus to improve the salaries or working conditions in a job or an occupation.

SYLVESTER: The American Federation of Teachers says there are plenty of teachers willing to work in suburban districts but they just don't want to teach in the urban centers.

ANTONIA CORTESE, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: It's the old problem of compensation, salaries, working conditions. Many times school buildings are pretty dilapidated.

SYLVESTER: The union says the problem is not recruiting teachers, it's retaining them. And importing teachers will not fix that. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Turning now to a story stranger than fiction about a secret weapon, the Pentagon was thinking of putting its own spin on the phrase make love not war. Back in 1994 the military considered creating a non-lethal weapon that would have literally excited troops to uncontrollable lust -- the enemy's troops that is -- called the sex bomb. It was one of several ideas for non-lethal weapons.

And other ideas included giving enemy troops long-lasting bad breath, making their skin painfully sensitive to sunlight. The ideas were brought to light by the Sunshine Project which is an organization that studies biological weapons projects. None of these weapons were developed, at least none that we know of.

And President Bush, he has bold plans for a second term, so bold that members of his own party are bracing for a fight. Three leading political journalists join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: Joining me are three of the nation's leading political journalists. And from Washington, Roger Simon of "U.S. News & World Report" joins us, Karen Tumulty of "Time" magazine. And from Miami, "Ron Brownstein of the "Los Angeles Times." Thanks for being with us.

Interesting week political. And let's start with Social Security. The president launching several chat fests about proposed thinking on it, no real definite detailed, detailed plans.

Karen, I know you're doing a lot of work on this. What's your view on what's been floated so far?

KAREN TUMULTY, TIME: Well, not a lot in terms of details. Right now the president is in what he says is going to be the official -- initial phase of this campaign, which is just convincing the public that there is in fact a crisis with Social Security. That in fact the system is going to collapse if the government and Congress does not do something about it.

The problem here is that, yes, the numbers do look bad for Social Security, but not for decades. And so Democrats immediately seized upon this to accuse the president of essentially inventing a crisis as they say he did on Iraq to force what is essentially his political agenda through.

PILGRIM: You know, the numbers are a little bit boggling. They're solvent until 2042, which seems at bit far out, start to deplete in 2018, it seems a little closer. Ron, do you think this is a manufactured crisis or is this just insightful thinking?

RON BROWNSTEIN, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, crisis is a strong word for what social security faces. There is a long-term imbalance between the amount of revenue that the system is projected to bring in and the amount of the obligations that it faces, but that imbalance over the next 75 years measured as a share of the gross domestic product, Kitty, is smaller than either the cost of the president's tax cuts in the first term, or the cost of the Medicare prescription drug benefit that Congress approved.

So there is a debate. I think the larger question here for both parties is not whether you can close the financing gap in Social Security, but in effect, whether you should close the financing gap by allowing expenditures to grow.

The risk that both parties face, really, is as the baby boom ages the programs for the elderly will grow, especially Medicare, even more than Social Security, to the point where they squeeze out things that both party, either party wants to do, whether it's defense, education, investing in science. Somebody probably has to grapple with this. The question is whether the president's solution will be seen as a responsible response to that question, to that challenge.

PILGRIM: You know, and this whole issue of whether or not you could have a personal account instead, or in addition, is really complicating it a good bit. Roger, any thoughts? ROGER SIMON, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: Well, yes. As we've said, George Bush has a problem even after he convinces, if he can, the American people that there's a crisis. His next problem becomes convincing people that his solution is any solution at all, or just makes things even worse.

So far his plan is all vinegar and no honey. You get this multitrillion dollar cost in exchange for having to actively manage part of your investment in Social Security, which will not benefit Social Security for decades and decades. And the payoff is, benefit cuts.

Now, George Bush is hinting today that there won't be benefit cuts, but if there aren't benefit cuts, one wonders how on earth he intends to pay for it at all.

PILGRIM: Yeah. It's one of those things that goes round and round. And speaking of that, we have another one of those, which is WMD. And this week, no such weapons found the verdict, and yet the president says he's very happy, and he stands by his policy about invading Iraq. Is one of those undebatable debates?

Let's start with you, Karen.

TUMULTY: Well, I think this is something most of the public had figured out before the election. It was very clear months and months ago that there were not going to be weapons found in Iraq. And, you know, the public reelected George Bush anyway. So, I do think that this is not something that will -- this week's development, which was sort of the official word that the CIA had in fact quietly dropped even looking for WMD is really going to matter much.

PILGRIM: Ron, go ahead.

BROWNSTEIN: I was going to say in many ways I think the public is now judging over the Iraq War on a different set of criteria. The president has argued increasingly as the evidence did not emerge of weapons of mass that the real value here was to create a democracy in the Middle East that could encourage stability throughout the region and move other nations in the Islamic world toward democracy.

And I think in a way, the bigger threat to support for the war was the conclusion of the CIA advisory panel this week and sort of their long-term look at the globe that Iraq in fact could become a haven for global terrorism, sort of a training ground in the way that Iraq was. Ultimately, I think the verdict will be whether it contributes to stability in the region or not, rather than the WMD at this point.

SIMON: Ron is right. The president managed to pivot in the campaign away from weapons of mass destruction to the argument that even if we don't know there's weapons of mass destruction or that they don't exist, we are better off, the world and America, are safer places because Saddam Hussein is gone.

Now the CIA report that Ron just talked about says, well wait a second, in fact America may not be a safer place, because under Saddam Hussein we did not have terrorist cells operating in Iraq, and now we do. This goes to the very heart of George Bush's argument that the Iraq war was worth it. And the Iraq occupation is worth it, because it is making America safer.

PILGRIM: All right. A very serious issue, and even though we're debating it, there seems to be no answer. But thanks for helping us work through it today. Karen Tumulty, Ron Brownstein and Roger Simon, thanks a lot.

All right. Still a head, a preview of the stories we're planning for you Monday. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Thanks for being with us tonight.

Monday, "Assault on the Middle Class," why American families are facing more debt than ever. And a Congressman who says it's time to get tough with China.

Have a great weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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