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Lou Dobbs Tonight

White House Insists on Six-Party Talks With North Korea; Rumsfeld Makes Surprise Iraq Visit; Former Weapons Inspector Questions Iran Tactics

Aired February 11, 2005 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, February 11. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST: Good evening.

The United States today firmly rejected North Korea's demands for direct one-on-one talks about its nuclear weapons.

Yesterday, North Korea declared that, for the first time, it had nuclear weapons. Pyongyang also withdrew indefinitely from the multi- party negotiations.

And today, the White House insisted that only six-nation talks can resolve the crisis in, quote, "a peaceful and diplomatic way," unquote.

White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the report -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the White House made its position very clear today. They said there would be no deal with North Korea when it comes to the one-on-one talks. They said the only way the U.S. is going to negotiate is to those six-party talk forum.

They also said, of course, that they expect North Korea to permanently and verifiably dismantle their weapons of mass -- their nuclear weapons program, rather, before they get any kind of economic aid or any kind of diplomatic recognition.

Now, this is something the White House says that they refuse to actually make those talks happen, because they believe their strategy will work, saying that the talks and agreement under the Clinton administration had failed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: We've been down that road before. The 1994 agreed framework was the road that we went down before. It was a bilateral approach between the United States and North Korea. North Korea violated that agreement and continued to pursue nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: Now, the Bush administration believes that North Korea's neighbors can be more effective in changing their behavior and getting them to cooperate.

Today South Korean's foreign minister met with Vice President Dick Cheney here at the White House. He is also expected to meet with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as well as the national security adviser, Steve Hadley, sometime next week, but the -- the strategy, Kitty, is rather simple.

They want to make sure that all the members of the six-party talks are on board. At the same time, they feel they can wait out North Korea's rhetoric, wait for it to cool down before they believe they'll come back to the table.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Suzanne Malveaux.

North Korea's nuclear declaration is a direct challenge to China's rising influence in Asia, and China fears North Korea's nuclear ambitions could spark a nuclear arms race in Asia.

Stan Grant reports from Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korea admitting publicly for the first time it has nuclear weapons. What's more, it has walked away from multiparty talks on the issue. Truth or tactic?

JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think it makes it more likely that they probably do have a weapon of some kind. On the other hand, they could be bluffing.

GRANT: Bluff or no, China is in a bind. North Korea's closest ally, as close, they say, as teeth and lips, at times, though, more like a thorn in China's side.

North Korean refugees flocking across the border, around 300,000 thought to be in China. Others flee for foreign embassies in Beijing, embarrassing the Chinese government.

When this South Korean political delegation tried to raise the refugee issue at a press conference, China pulled the plug. Still, for all the sensitivity, analysts say China is the best hope to get North Korea back to the negotiating table.

China says it is, quote, watching the situation, hoping talks can continue.

WILL DOBSON, MANAGING EDITOR, "FOREIGN POLICY": The Chinese have been hosting this process, and have put a lot of diplomatic chits on the line to try to make this happen. They now are, no doubt, have interrupted their own Chinese new year's celebrations to begin talks with Pyongyang to try to assess what the real intentions are. GRANT: The North Korea talks, an exercise in U.S.-China diplomacy as much as anything else. Potential rivals on the future of Taiwan, together on trying to disarm Pyongyang.

North Korea's latest moves attest to China's influence and resolve.

(on camera) The United States certainly has high expectations of China, President Bush recently dispatching an envoy with a message to Chinese officials. The U.S. has information suggesting that Libya has received processed uranium from North Korea, and that only underscores the need to get the six-party talks restarted.

Stan Grant, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Three American troops were killed in Iraq today. One was killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad, and a Marine and a soldier were killed in separate vehicle accidents elsewhere in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today made a surprise visit to Iraq. Rumsfeld said American troops will be able to go home when Iraqi soldiers and police can take over security responsibilities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): Secretary Rumsfeld's surprise visit included a trip to a combat hospital in Mosul. Rumsfeld told American troops that Iraqi forces have an obligation to take over the responsibility for their country's own security.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They're developing confidence and skill. There's no question about it. And once they have that confidence and that capacity and capability, our forces, coalition forces will be able to go home.

PILGRIM: Rumsfeld awarded 10 American and 10 Iraqi troops the Army Commendation Medal.

From Mosul, Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad to review Iraqi troops in training. At Camp Victory in Baghdad, Rumsfeld watched Iraqi Special Forces rappel from U.S. helicopters and storm a building in a simulated live-fire exercise.

Later, the secretary watched a police hostage rescue team conduct a counter-terrorism exercise and demonstrate live firing skills.

RUMSFELD: I sense that the coalition effort is well organized, focused, and that the professionalism of these units is advancing.

PILGRIM: Rumsfeld also met with Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and congratulated him on the successful Iraqi elections.

But the violence continued today. Insurgents launched a series of attacks on Shia targets in and around Baghdad. Four Iraqi National Guardsmen and eight civilians were killed when a suicide bomber struck a mosque. More than 20 other people were wounded in that attack.

Gunmen also attacked two bakeries and killed nine workers.

Despite today's violence, U.S. military leaders say insurgent attacks are actually declining.

GEN. JOHN CASEY, U.S. ARMY: Sixty incidents or so a day countrywide. And that's a relatively, for us, relatively low level.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: And as for the results of the historic Iraqi elections, an Iraqi official says they are entering the final phase of ballot counting.

Well, the United States faces a huge challenge trying to determine the purpose of Iran's nuclear program. The White House says Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and Iran says its nuclear program is entirely peaceful. American intelligence analysts have now begun a major new assessment of Iran's nuclear capabilities.

National security correspondent David Ensor reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the CIA's man in Iraq, David Kay could not find any weapons of mass destruction, those U.S. intelligence said they were there. And now he worries about history repeating itself.

DAVID KAY, FORMER CIA WEAPONS HUNTER: Looking at Iran, after Iraq, is a particularly vexing problem. Because we now -- now know how wrong we got it in the case of Iraq. It was not a marginal difference.

ENSOR: In Iran's case, the first revelation about its then secret nuclear weapons-related facilities in Natanz and Arak came from Iranian dissident emigres, who continue to offer additional tidbits almost weekly.

That reminds Kay of some not so reliable information from Iraqi associates, then emigre leader Ahmed Chalabi before the Iraq war.

KAY: My suspicion is that we're going to find out in Iran, just like in Iraq, we had no human operatives on the ground, and that our best source of information were people who had defected and had other agendas.

ENSOR: Back in the fall of 2002, Bush administration rhetoric about Iraq was ramping up.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun, that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

ENSOR: Fast-forward to 2005, and the rhetoric is about Iran. Warnings to Tehran to give up its nuclear programs or face uncertain consequences. On January 20, inauguration day, Vice President Cheney told an interviewer that, quote, "The Israelis might well decide to act first, and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterwards."

(on camera) What did you think when Vice President Cheney warned that the Israelis might attack Iran?

KAY: I actually don't think it was an effective threat.

ENSOR (voice-over): Not effective, argues Kay, because times have changed since 1981 when Israeli jets knocked out the Iraqi nuclear program with just one raid.

KAY: I think the Iranians know what the Israelis did, and that's why they've scattered their program and made it very difficult to locate.

ENSOR: Kay says the administration is making a mistake not to sit down with the Iranians and offer them security guarantees from a super power that they cannot get in their ongoing discussions with European diplomats about giving up their nuclear programs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: But administration officials privately say they have doubts a deal could be done with and then honored by Tehran. Officials tell CNN a methodical review of U.S. intelligence on Iran's nuclear facilities is under way and that the administration is in no mood to soften its warnings to Tehran -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thank you very much. David Ensor.

Coming up, how serious is the terrorist threat to our bridges and tunnels? We'll have an answer in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Lawmakers on Capitol Hill are bitterly divided over how to deal with the rising number of illegal aliens working on our farms. More than half the farm workers in the United States are now illegal aliens. A bill in Congress would give those illegal aliens legal status, but opponents say the bill is nothing less than an amnesty.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The legislation is known as the Ag Jobs bill. It would allow for as many as a million illegal farm workers in the United States to obtain legal residency and eventually permanent citizenship.

Supporters say the illegal workers are a vital part of the economy and should be recognized.

SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R), IDAHO: It's not giving anything away. It's attempting to correct the problem. It's doing the background checks. It'S making sure that we have a legal and legitimate workforce, so that, as we plug all these holes and change the character of a broken immigration law, we do so without collapsing the very economy that feeds our country.

SYLVESTER: There are at least 33 cosponsors in the Senate, but, in the House, support is lacking. Key Republicans flatly oppose any amnesty programs.

Steve Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies says giving illegal aliens legal status sends the wrong message.

STEVEN CAMAROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: By giving green cards to illegal aliens, we tell everybody who's played by the rules and has waited their turn in their home country to come to America that they're fools, that they're dupes because they obeyed the law.

SYLVESTER: Other immigration reform groups say there is a surplus of farm workers already in the United States, adding an agricultural amnesty program will only push wages down further.

ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERS USA: In California, the unemployment rate of agricultural workers is 50 percent. Farm workers are being paid about the same wages that they're making in Mexico in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: President Bush has proposed a broader guest worker program that includes other industries, but even the White House plan does not put the workers on a path toward permanent citizenship -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Lisa Sylvester.

That does bring us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe illegal aliens with agriculture jobs in this country should be given legal status? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com, and we'll bring you the results later in the show.

Well, 2005 could be the warmest year on record. NASA scientists say a weak El Nino and greenhouse gases are to blame. While climate events like El Nino play a part in human-made pollutants, human-made pollutants are mostly responsible for a spike in the temperatures over the past 30 years. Now the warmest year currently on record is 1998.

Next, a former Russian dissident who has tremendous influence over the president's policies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: President Bush has made the promotion of democracy around the world the center of his second-term foreign policy. The president's strategy has been strongly influenced by a former Soviet dissident who's now a minister in the Israeli government, Natan Sharansky, and he's the author of "The Case for Democracy: The Power of Freedom to Overcome Tyranny and Terror."

White House Correspondent Dana Bash has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On Capitol Hill, they line up, smile for a photo, sign a book, maybe two. A bipartisan buzz not for a rock star, but former refusenick Natan Sharansky.

Why all the hype?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a book that, however, summarizes how I feel. I would urge people to read it.

BASH: In November, Sharansky was summoned to the Oval Office to discuss his case for democracy, that supporting freedom in oppressed societies should outweigh stable relations. It was January's inaugural theme.

BUSH: ... with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was listening to the president's speech. I said, gosh, I could cite chapters it came out of.

BASH: This just any author who caught the president's attention. Two decades ago, a prisoner in the Soviet Gulag, a human rights icon, released in 1986 to Israel, a hero's welcome at the Reagan White House.

Now he has Washington's attention again.

NATAN SHARANSKY, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT MINISTER: Saudi Arabia is run by a tribal dictatorship.

BASH: His message: Big speeches on liberty are welcome, but just a start.

SHARANSKY: I do want to see, of course, that President Bush will start implementing this policy.

BASH: Sharansky wants a clear litmus test for the newly elected Palestinian leadership to fight not just terrorism, but corruption.

SHARANSKY: If they don't embrace democratic reforms, if they will resist these reforms, there should be no legitimacy. There should be no support.

BASH: Pushing friendly governments is hard, Sharansky concedes, so he considers Mr. Bush's upcoming meeting with President Putin a defining moment.

SHARANSKY: There should be seen the linkage between the question of human rights in Russia and a relation between the United States of America and Russia.

BASH: His biggest question: Will the president now get tough with Saudi Arabia?

SHARANSKY: What is the force (ph) of Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia wants to have America as a friend, a big supporter and, at the same time, as a big Satan.

BASH: For now, he takes solace in helping shape a vibrant debate...

REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: It's not everybody who gets the president of the United States to serve as a their literary agent.

BASH: ... and keen interest in whether a kindred spirit in the White House turns lofty words into a sustained push for freedom, societies where Natan Sharansky says fear has ruled far too long.

Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Next, why the United States may not be prepared to respond to a North Korean nuclear threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: In a moment, I'll talk to U.S. foreign policy expert Ian Bremmer about North Korea's nuclear threat.

But, first, these stories.

A deadly two-day prison riot in Argentina has ended after an overnight standoff with security forces. Inmates released all 70 of their hostages, but eight people were killed in the riot. Police say half of the hostages were visiting family members, and the rest were prison officials.

In Venezuela, 16 people are dead after three days of floods and landslides. The government has sent helicopters and Navy ships to evacuate thousands of people that are still stranded by floodwaters.

Playwright Arthur Miller dead at the age of 89. The Pulitzer Prizewinner who wrote "Death of a Salesman" and "The Crucible" died of heart failure last night at his Connecticut home. He was surrounded by family and friends.

President Bush is trying to focus on his domestic agenda, but, this week, events overseas are once again demanding the president's full attention.

For the first time, North Korea has declared it has nuclear weapons, and Iran is refusing to back down in the confrontation over its suspected nuclear weapons program. At the same time, the United States is still fighting a war in Iraq.

Well, joining me now is Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group.

And thanks for being with us.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: Good evening.

PILGRIM: Let's start with North Korea. What are our policy options? We've had really a war of words this week? What can the United States do at this point?

BREMMER: Sit and wait largely. The North Koreans, of course, have announced they have nuclear weapons, they've also announced that they're pulling out of the six-party talks indefinitely, and the United States response is, well, the North Koreans really need to go back to talks.

So it's sort of delay, and part of that is because the U.S. doesn't really know the extent of North Korea's nuclear program, doesn't have military options even if they wanted them and, frankly, doesn't have a lot of support from some of the other parties to this discussion.

The Chinese have already said they don't support U.S. policy of complete verifiable irreversible denuclearization in North Korea.

PILGRIM: Isn't the pressure really on the Chinese, or shouldn't the United States put the pressure on the Chinese?

BREMMER: Well, they can, but the Chinese are very concerned about instability. We have to recognize that the greatest area of social dissent in all of China in the last year have been large numbers of demonstrations just on the Chinese side of the North Korean border. They don't want to see larger numbers of refugees from North Korea. That means they really want to make sure that North Korea doesn't become unstable, so they are loathe to put significant pressure on the North Koreans.

At this point, the real question has been -- since the North Koreans have shown themselves very willing to push America's red lines, whether it is getting rid of the inspectors from the nuclear facilities a couple of years ago or now declaring they have nuclear weapons, the real question is what's preventing the North Koreans from a nuclear test, and, frankly, the answer is probably not very much.

PILGRIM: How soon could they be ready for one or might they try one, Ian?

BREMMER: Well, the problem, of course, is we don't know. There's very little intelligence here. It's not like Iraq. And, of course, there were difficulties with WMD intelligence on Iraq as well. The belief is that they could test a nuclear weapon underground at present if they really wanted to, and the question is only one of when the North Koreans feel that they're being under pressure and that they need to respond in such a way.

The real potential move in that direction could come with the Japanese who get a lot of domestic support from putting more pressure on the North Koreans. They may put sanctions on the North Koreans in the coming months. If they do, that might be the time the North Koreans respond.

PILGRIM: Let me switch countries on you and go to Iran, again, a nuclear issue, potential nuclear threat. What kind of policy options should we be pursuing on Iran? And there's been a little bit of criticism this week that the rhetoric has been ratcheted up. Is it just rhetoric, or do you think that plans are in place for more serious action?

BREMMER: Well, there are some plans in place. We've heard from Condoleezza Rice now twice, several months ago after the agreement with the IAEA and the Iranians and now just over the past couple days, that the United States reserves the right to bring this issue unilaterally to the Security Council for sanctions on Iran, if they don't think they're getting sufficient cooperation from the Iranians. Obviously, the American government does not believe they're getting that cooperation.

Now the Chinese who have already signed a major agreement with the Iranians for a very large gas deal, $75 billion, have said they will oppose any sanctions at the U.N. So why would Condi Rice want to bring this to the U.N. potentially if they know the Chinese are going to oppose it.

And the reality is that you need to go through the multilateral hoops, both the negotiations with the Europeans and the arms inspectors, as well as through the Security Council, before you can really consider whether you want to engage in policies of undermining existing regimes or surgical strikes against nuclear facilities.

In that regard, it's very important to focus on the fact that Condi Rice says that at this point -- at this point -- the U.S. is not considering military options. The point may well be coming.

PILGRIM: I have to ask you before we go, but they're telling me we're almost out of time. You did do some analysis for us on the Iraqi elections. We won't have results for maybe possibly another week, but what is your assessment of the way they went?

BREMMER: Well, I think the -- no question, wonderful surprise that there wasn't as much violence as was concerned in places like Baghdad.

The negative issue is that a lot of people voted with their hearts, and that means it looks like the Sistani list did much better than expected in the Shia parts of Iraq. The Allawi list, present Prime Minister Allawi, in Iraq didn't do as well. That means, as we get closer to Iraqi constitutional discussions towards October, it's going to be harder to get the Sunnis involved, it's going to be harder to come up with something that the Kurds are willing to agree with. That makes nation state-building in Iraq a bigger challenge for the U.S. on the ground.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

Ian Bremmer of Eurasia Group.

In our special report, "America's Security Risks," we focus tonight on the threat to our bridges and tunnels. Now those bridges and tunnels are vital links in our national highway system. A terrorist attack on just a small number of them could be highly costly to our economy.

Christine Romans has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America's highway infrastructure is aging, carrying more traffic than ever. At the same time, security risks are running high.

It's an enormous target to protect: 160,000 miles of national highways, three million miles of local roads and arterial highways, 400 highway-related tunnels and 590,000 bridges. Almost 600 bridges and tunnels have been identified as critical to the economically. The loss of a landmark bridge could exceed $10 billion. They're patrolled on foot and by security cameras, protected by blast shielding. And some tunnel vents have been secured against chemical or biological attacks, but transit experts say it would be impossible to protect everything, and outside of the most high profile targets, they say money is best spent for much-needed maintenance, especially for bridges.

TONY KANE, STATE HIGHWAY AND TRANSP. OFFICIALS: I kind of call it the baby-boomer problem of bridges structures, where we're hitting the 50-year life of them. And functional deficiencies, or the fact that traffic has grown far faster than we ever imagined.

ROMANS: More people are traveling farther and bigger trucks are carrying heavier loads. 28 percent of our bridges are deficient.

ANDY HERMAN, AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS: Back in 2001, had the report card for America's infrastructure. And in 2001, bridges received a grade of C.

ROMANS: There's been little improvement since. Oklahoma leads the nation with the highest percentage of structurally deficient bridges, but there are plenty across the country. Federal funding has been growing, but states in recent years have raided their federal highway dollars to cover state budget shortfalls. And since 2003, Congress has only passed temporary transportation funding.

In this budget is $284 billion in highway funding for the next six years.

(on camera): It's an expensive struggle just to maintain them, let alone improve them. Security has been a priority since before September 11, 2001. Already 42,000 people a year die on our roads. Christine Romans, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Turning now to homeland security and the president's budget. My next guest says the Bush administration is gutting the very programs that help secure or country. Joseph Estey is the president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, which represents 19,000 members. And he joins me now from Miami. Thanks very much for joining us.

JOSEPH ESTEY, INTERNATIONAL ASSOC. OF CHIEFS OF POLICE: My pleasure, Kitty.

PILGRIM: What kind of service risk -- security risk, are we facing with this type of a budget?

ESTEY: Well, the concern is that it's just dwindling resources. And with increased responsibilities and looking at what's -- you know, what the planning is, and trying to figure out, you know, what our increased responsibilities are. It's a drastic cut in what's going to be available to state, local law enforcement for battling those things, if not just basic use for law enforcement in accomplishing their basic job.

PILGRIM: What are we talking about here, Stretching the forces too thin or actually cutting specific programs?

ESTEY: Well, both, actually. There's a cut projected by the president that would drastically reduce almost to nothing the cops office, which is where a lot of law enforcement gets additional help and resources for specialized programs, for things like school resource officers, additional personnel that they can put on the street.

The JAG Grants, which includes burn funding, which is where law enforcement often funds positions to fights drugs on the street has been eliminated altogether. And when you look at homeland security, which is shared with all public safety and first-responders, there's still about a 50 percent cut in funding for state and local law enforcement smaller than big cities.

PILGRIM: Tell us why first-responders are so important, especially in the current security environment?

ESTEY: Well, first responders is where the rubber meets the road. And that's where people are going to confront an emergency, whether it's an attack, whether it's a security risk, whether it's a function like the Democratic or Republican National Convention, that's where first-responders is where, you know, a lot of the resources happen right off the bat. And it's fire, it's police, it's EMS, and that's who's sort of carry the ball initially in any kind of event. PILGRIM: Can the money be made up on a local level?

ESTEY: No, that's the problem. You know, when you look at a state and local budget, 85 to 87 percent is made up of salaries and benefits. You figure another 10 percent or so for fixed costs, and those have been under attack just like everybody else. Higher energy costs for gasoline, higher benefit costs.

For example, in our community, we've had about a 50 percent increase over 2 years in our health insurance budget. So discretionary funding, the money that you use for those kind of events have all been but eliminated. And the federal resources have been the only viable for picking up those things. And now those are projected to be reduced if not eliminated by the president.

PILGRIM: Well, we certainly wish you every success in maintaining the security of this country. And thanks for being on the program to tell us about it. Joseph Estey.

ESTEY: Thank you. My pleasure.

PILGRIM: New York Central Park has become a gated community that planners hope will attract people rather than keep them out. 7,500 fabric-covered metal gates have been constructed over 23 miles of footpaths in New York's enormous park. Beginning tomorrow banners of saffron-colored fabric will catch the breeze creating what the artist Christo calls a visual golden river. Christo and his wife Jeanne- Claude will pay for all of the $21 million it will cost to stage the exhibit, which is scheduled to be on display for 16 days.

Still to come, the high cost of so-called free trade. The United States is not alone in battling unfair Chinese trade practices. The view from Europe next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Small business owners in this country are taking action to protect themselves from competition with big chain stores. Country store owners in Vermont are banding together. And their alliance is a way to protect their businesses and their way of life. Bill Tucker reports from Greensboro, Vermont.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a world of look- a-like retail boxes, the country store stands in defiance, stores where no two are alike, some of which have been around since the 1800's. A place where you can buy hunting and fishing licenses and pick up your mail. A place where you can find your neighbor.

MIM HERWIG, LOCAL PATRON: I come whenever I need something, because it's the heart of the community. It's what keeps us all going.

TUCKER: And grab some conversation.

EUGENE BOOSKA, SNOWSVILLE GENERAL STORE: Something happens to the family, I'll say, how's so-and-so doing?

TUCKER: Stores where locals can buy locally grown produce, local dairy, meats, stores with shelves lined with products made in Vermont.

AL FLOYD, FLOYD'S GENERAL STORE: The only thing I can tell you is we keep our money local. When you come in and pay us, we go to the bank, local bank, deposit our money, and spend our money here local. Wal-Mart exports it all.

TUCKER (on camera): Looking to generate business and create a brand name, store owners formed a grass-roots alliance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why did we start? We started to help promote and preserve these cultural heritage centers.

TUCKER (voice-over): The alliance started 5 years ago. Stores preserve more than just cultural heritage, they're crucial to the state's small manufacturers.

KEN HUGHES, LOCAL MANUFACTURERS REPRESENTATIVE: I can't sell to a, say, Cumberland Farms, because that's the mega convenience store chain. So it's the little Vermont country stores that I'm able to put my Vermont-made products in, and the two just go together perfectly.

TUCKER: Vermont's agricultural agency estimates that if locals buy just 10 percent of their total purchases from state farmers, it adds $100 million to the state's economy.

JENNIFER GRANOVAC, VT AGENCY OF AGRICULTURE: To some people, they don't understand how little change can make such a big difference.

TUCKER: And sometimes the bottom line just can't be defined in dollars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know this. We're all going to be one big interstate access (ph), and we're all going to be those nameless, faceless, uninspired people behind the counter who can't even make change and can't even say hello.

TUCKER: Bill Tucker, CNN, Greensboro, Vermont.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: The European Union today said it's willing to stop government loans for Airbus, but only if the United States agrees to stop similar aid for Boeing. European governments have provided $15 billion in loans to help Airbus develop new aircraft over the last three decades. Peter Mandelson is the European Union's commissioner for trade, and he joins me tonight from Washington. Thanks very much for being here, sir.

PETER MANDELSON, EU TRADE COMMISSIONER: Great pleasure to be with you.

PILGRIM: Now, these loans for Airbus are kind of a sore point, because they're made a little bit less than market rate, and so that gives the impression, and perhaps is factually true, that Europe subsidizes its aircraft industry. Do you think that we'll have a breakthrough here?

MANDELSON: I hope we have a breakthrough, because we don't want these two great titans of the civil aviation sector, you know, slugging it out and killing each other. If they have differences of opinion, then we should be helping to resolve those differences, and that's what we're doing through our negotiations.

But if I can just say this, it's true that some European governments choose to invest in Airbus, but those are loans, and they're repaid with royalties.

In the case of Boeing, they too get an enormous amount of grants and financial support from American taxpayers as well as others around the world. So if we're going to discipline one, we have to discipline the other. And that's what we want the outcome of our talks to be.

PILGRIM: It's very much a sore point in this country, I'm sure it is in Europe also. Where do we go from here? How is it resolved? What's the timetable on it? Because it's been dragging on for years.

MANDELSON: Well, we've set ourselves three months to have these negotiations. I mean, the alternative is to take the case to the World Trade Organization in Geneva, in effect take it to the court, and it will take very many months, if not more years, with lawyers lining their pockets in the process representing both sides.

I think that we should have a mutual balanced reduction of taxpayer support, government finance, both for Airbus and Boeing, and that's the outcome I want to see from these talks.

But before you demonize Airbus too much, a very successful European company, increasing its market share of the large civil aviation market, it also brings a great deal of wealth here to the United States of America. Airbus spends more than $6 billion a year purchasing parts and engines and the like and hydraulics for its aircraft. It supports 140,000 jobs in over 40 states in the U.S. So Airbus is doing very well for the U.S., and that's something to be borne in mind. But it must compete fairly, and that's what we want to see.

PILGRIM: Well, we celebrate that. Let's ask you one more thing, and we have to do it quickly, but it's an important issue. The dollar has declined seriously against the euro. Some economists are predicting that the dollar could actually crash. What is your estimation on the disparity in the exchange rate now, and do you expect it to continue? I'm asking you to put your economist hat on a bit.

MANDELSON: Well, I am not going to speculate, because that's not what politicians should do. It's a fool's game. The market will set the right rate for the dollar, but it creates competitive difficulties for us. It's great for America's exporters, but it is indeed difficult for the rest of us. But you know, this is a matter for the markets, it's not a matter for politicians, and I'm not going to predict where the dollar is going to go next.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much for being with us, Peter Mandelson.

MANDELSON: Great pleasure.

PILGRIM: Thank you.

Wal-Mart's CEO is defending his company's decision to close one of its Canadian stores after its employees voted to form a union.

Now, this would have been Wal-Mart's first contract agreement. In an interview with "The Washington Post," Wal-Mart's CEO, Lee Scott, said he would not agree to union demands for the sake of being, quote, "altruistic." The 190 employees at the Quebec store will be laid off.

Next, an Army National Guardsman honored for bravery on the field of battle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Supporters of President Bush are having a little fun at Hollywood's expense. They're thanking some of the most outspoken opponents of the president for unintentionally helping him win reelection. Well, the theory is people became so annoyed with outspoken celebrities during the campaign, they actually voted for the president.

Whether or not that is true is debatable, but a billboard shows President Bush, along with Michael Moore, Martin Sheen, Whoopi Goldberg and others, and it reads: "4 more years, thank you Hollywood." The conservative group Citizens United posted the billboard a block away from the Kodak Theater in Los Angeles, where the Academy Awards will be held later this month.

Well, joining me now, three of the country's top journalists. From Washington, we're joined by Roger Simon of "U.S. News & World Report," Karen Tumulty of "Time" magazine, and right here with me in New York is Jim Ellis of "Businessweek." Thanks for being with us.

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Hi, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Let's start with the budget, and I'll start with Jim Ellis, since he's sitting closest to me.

The budget proposal came out. A lot of criticism. It did leave out Iraq, it did leave out Afghanistan, it did leave out the costs of Social Security. That all aside, where do we stand? What's your view?

JIM ELLIS, BUSINESSWEEK: Well, all that aside, it's very difficult to talk about the budget, simply because the numbers are so fuzzy. I mean, that's $2.6 trillion, it's a lot of money, but if you start adding the things that aren't there, the $2 trillion to fix Social Security if it needs to be fixed, the $500 billion to actually get rid of the AMT problem. There's a lot here. The deficit coming down in half by the end of the decade is rather unlikely, and I think that what's going to hurt the president now is if people in Congress, even his supporters, are going to start to wonder, is he really being right with us about the numbers?

PILGRIM: Well, sitting here at the epicenter of the debate, we're hearing people complaining about the cuts, and then also people talking about that pledge to cut the deficit in half in five years. So you're getting both sides of the story. Karen, where do you stand on this?

TUMULTY: Well, the other thing that happened this week at a really bad time for the administration is its credibility on all of these numbers took another big blow when we found out that the cost of this great Medicare prescription drug plan that Congress passed last year was in fact going to be almost twice as much as the administration originally estimated. It was started out $400 million plus change now it will be over $700 million.

So that, at a time when the administration is, a, trying to sort of refurbish the Republicans' reputation on fiscal discipline and, b, trying to sell a big, new, expensive Social Security program could not have come at a worse time.

PILGRIM: Roger? All this funny math annoying you, too?

ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Well, this is a fantasy budget. The reductions, the cutbacks are not going to happen. These are cutbacks to preschool children, these are cutbacks to the National Parks Service, this is cutbacks to law enforcement and cutbacks Amtrak, which is very popular with Congress. It's hard to imagine that Congress will ever make these cutbacks, and also the entire budget is premised as the "New York Times" pointed out on the belief that in the next five years, everything that the government buys from paper clips to space shuttles will not go up in price. That's not just a fantasy, that's a hallucination. I just don't think that the president is going to achieve his goals with this budget.

PILGRIM: As all this domestic stuff is going on the headlines really have been about international affairs and North Korea claiming the biggest of the wee, I would have to vote on that saying that they have a nuclear weapon. This is really drawing attention away from the domestic agenda to the international agenda and not particularly positive stuff for the president. Where do we stand on policy? Let me ask Jim first.

ELLIS: I think that we're in sort of an awkward position here simply because we don't have a lot of sway with the North Koreans. We don't want to sit down and talk to them on a bilateral basis. What it will do is it's going to push the United States to depend very heavily on China at exactly the time we don't want to have to deal with China from a position of weakness. We're having a lot of economic issues with them, but now we have to go to them and say, can you sort of lean on your ally there? That's not the best position to be in right now for the president.

PILGRIM: Karen, do you think that the six-party talks will resume, or are they pretty much finished?

TUMULTY: Well, part of the North Koreans' announcement yesterday was basically they said we've got the weapons and we have no interest in the negotiations. So I think in a lot of ways this was trying, I think, to pressure the administration into precisely what it doesn't want to do, which is two-way negotiations. And of course, it's always hard to find a rationale for anything that the North Koreans do. The fact that they have nuclear weapons is not a huge surprise, but both the timing and the choice of language, describing these weapons as an arsenal as opposed to a deterrent is, I think, got a lot of U.S. policymakers mystified.

PILGRIM: And also this week a lot of harsh words about Iran, Condoleezza Rice in Europe, Donald Rumsfeld also making some comments. Roger, what do you think about these two emerging problems that really were there the whole time?

SIMON: Well, we're dealing with two belligerent paranoid nations which makes almost by definition predicting what they'll do very difficult. And both these nations realize the limits now of U.S. power while fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can barely meet our troop requirements there, and our commitments around the world, and they know it is entirely unlikely, and probably impossible that the United States will take any kind of action against either Iran or North Korea, which is why they're increasingly belligerent.

PILGRIM: All right, we have to end it there. Roger Simon, Jim Ellis, and Karen Tumulty. Thanks very much for being with us tonight.

In "Heroes," tonight a sergeant in the National Guard who was awarded the Bronze Star for bravery. Sergeant Bruce Himelright now plans to take on a whole new challenge, and Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the National Guard armory in Chico, California, Sergeant Bruce Himelright is working off the last six months of his military career. He joined the Navy seven years ago doing active duty on a nuclear sub. After he left, life as a security guard wasn't enough, so he joined the army National Guard, a move that took him to Iraq and army honors for bravery.

SGT. BRUCE HIMELRIGHT, CALIFORNIA NATIONAL GUARD: To me it's just a soldier who is in a position where you want to survive and you want your friends survive and what else are you going to do?

WIAN: The day began like any other until a routine patrol turned deadly. Shots rang out. Himelright could feel he had been hit.

HIMELRIGHT: Once I realized I was being shot, I was able to stand up and there was an Iraqi interpreter right beside me, I was able to grab him with both arms and we jumped into a canal. Two seconds passed and I was in the bottom of the canal face-down. And I had my .16 in my hand and I looked down and I had blood all over the left side of my body. When I rolled over there was a silhouette on top of the canal and then they started shooting me in the chest as well.

WIAN: As the bullets flew Sergeant Himelright worried about his fellow soldiers.

HIMELRIGHT: I was able to actually stand up, because I only had one shot through my buttocks, left buttocks and my body armor had stopped all the other rounds. So I was very lucky.

WIAN: Himelright quickly saw two of his buddies were down. Even though he was bleeding, he crawled to the radio to call for help. When the ambulance arrived he helped move the wounded soldiers. In spite of his efforts, their lives were lost. Months later, Himelright's bravery is rewarded with a Bronze Star.

With his military career now coming to a permanent close, Sergeant Himelright plans to fulfill another lifelong goal -- becoming a police officer. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: We wish him luck.

Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll and a preview of what's ahead for Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Nine percent of you believe illegal aliens with agriculture jobs in this country should be given legal status but 91 percent do not.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us Monday. Our culture in decline series, the new series of special reports on the crumbling youth culture in our country. And then unfair Chinese trade, a bold proposal in Congress to stop the exporting of American jobs and wealth to China. And exporting your child's education to cheap foreign labor markets.

For all of us here have a great weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 11, 2005 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, February 11. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST: Good evening.

The United States today firmly rejected North Korea's demands for direct one-on-one talks about its nuclear weapons.

Yesterday, North Korea declared that, for the first time, it had nuclear weapons. Pyongyang also withdrew indefinitely from the multi- party negotiations.

And today, the White House insisted that only six-nation talks can resolve the crisis in, quote, "a peaceful and diplomatic way," unquote.

White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has the report -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, the White House made its position very clear today. They said there would be no deal with North Korea when it comes to the one-on-one talks. They said the only way the U.S. is going to negotiate is to those six-party talk forum.

They also said, of course, that they expect North Korea to permanently and verifiably dismantle their weapons of mass -- their nuclear weapons program, rather, before they get any kind of economic aid or any kind of diplomatic recognition.

Now, this is something the White House says that they refuse to actually make those talks happen, because they believe their strategy will work, saying that the talks and agreement under the Clinton administration had failed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: We've been down that road before. The 1994 agreed framework was the road that we went down before. It was a bilateral approach between the United States and North Korea. North Korea violated that agreement and continued to pursue nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: Now, the Bush administration believes that North Korea's neighbors can be more effective in changing their behavior and getting them to cooperate.

Today South Korean's foreign minister met with Vice President Dick Cheney here at the White House. He is also expected to meet with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as well as the national security adviser, Steve Hadley, sometime next week, but the -- the strategy, Kitty, is rather simple.

They want to make sure that all the members of the six-party talks are on board. At the same time, they feel they can wait out North Korea's rhetoric, wait for it to cool down before they believe they'll come back to the table.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Suzanne Malveaux.

North Korea's nuclear declaration is a direct challenge to China's rising influence in Asia, and China fears North Korea's nuclear ambitions could spark a nuclear arms race in Asia.

Stan Grant reports from Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korea admitting publicly for the first time it has nuclear weapons. What's more, it has walked away from multiparty talks on the issue. Truth or tactic?

JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think it makes it more likely that they probably do have a weapon of some kind. On the other hand, they could be bluffing.

GRANT: Bluff or no, China is in a bind. North Korea's closest ally, as close, they say, as teeth and lips, at times, though, more like a thorn in China's side.

North Korean refugees flocking across the border, around 300,000 thought to be in China. Others flee for foreign embassies in Beijing, embarrassing the Chinese government.

When this South Korean political delegation tried to raise the refugee issue at a press conference, China pulled the plug. Still, for all the sensitivity, analysts say China is the best hope to get North Korea back to the negotiating table.

China says it is, quote, watching the situation, hoping talks can continue.

WILL DOBSON, MANAGING EDITOR, "FOREIGN POLICY": The Chinese have been hosting this process, and have put a lot of diplomatic chits on the line to try to make this happen. They now are, no doubt, have interrupted their own Chinese new year's celebrations to begin talks with Pyongyang to try to assess what the real intentions are. GRANT: The North Korea talks, an exercise in U.S.-China diplomacy as much as anything else. Potential rivals on the future of Taiwan, together on trying to disarm Pyongyang.

North Korea's latest moves attest to China's influence and resolve.

(on camera) The United States certainly has high expectations of China, President Bush recently dispatching an envoy with a message to Chinese officials. The U.S. has information suggesting that Libya has received processed uranium from North Korea, and that only underscores the need to get the six-party talks restarted.

Stan Grant, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Three American troops were killed in Iraq today. One was killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad, and a Marine and a soldier were killed in separate vehicle accidents elsewhere in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today made a surprise visit to Iraq. Rumsfeld said American troops will be able to go home when Iraqi soldiers and police can take over security responsibilities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): Secretary Rumsfeld's surprise visit included a trip to a combat hospital in Mosul. Rumsfeld told American troops that Iraqi forces have an obligation to take over the responsibility for their country's own security.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They're developing confidence and skill. There's no question about it. And once they have that confidence and that capacity and capability, our forces, coalition forces will be able to go home.

PILGRIM: Rumsfeld awarded 10 American and 10 Iraqi troops the Army Commendation Medal.

From Mosul, Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad to review Iraqi troops in training. At Camp Victory in Baghdad, Rumsfeld watched Iraqi Special Forces rappel from U.S. helicopters and storm a building in a simulated live-fire exercise.

Later, the secretary watched a police hostage rescue team conduct a counter-terrorism exercise and demonstrate live firing skills.

RUMSFELD: I sense that the coalition effort is well organized, focused, and that the professionalism of these units is advancing.

PILGRIM: Rumsfeld also met with Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and congratulated him on the successful Iraqi elections.

But the violence continued today. Insurgents launched a series of attacks on Shia targets in and around Baghdad. Four Iraqi National Guardsmen and eight civilians were killed when a suicide bomber struck a mosque. More than 20 other people were wounded in that attack.

Gunmen also attacked two bakeries and killed nine workers.

Despite today's violence, U.S. military leaders say insurgent attacks are actually declining.

GEN. JOHN CASEY, U.S. ARMY: Sixty incidents or so a day countrywide. And that's a relatively, for us, relatively low level.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: And as for the results of the historic Iraqi elections, an Iraqi official says they are entering the final phase of ballot counting.

Well, the United States faces a huge challenge trying to determine the purpose of Iran's nuclear program. The White House says Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and Iran says its nuclear program is entirely peaceful. American intelligence analysts have now begun a major new assessment of Iran's nuclear capabilities.

National security correspondent David Ensor reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the CIA's man in Iraq, David Kay could not find any weapons of mass destruction, those U.S. intelligence said they were there. And now he worries about history repeating itself.

DAVID KAY, FORMER CIA WEAPONS HUNTER: Looking at Iran, after Iraq, is a particularly vexing problem. Because we now -- now know how wrong we got it in the case of Iraq. It was not a marginal difference.

ENSOR: In Iran's case, the first revelation about its then secret nuclear weapons-related facilities in Natanz and Arak came from Iranian dissident emigres, who continue to offer additional tidbits almost weekly.

That reminds Kay of some not so reliable information from Iraqi associates, then emigre leader Ahmed Chalabi before the Iraq war.

KAY: My suspicion is that we're going to find out in Iran, just like in Iraq, we had no human operatives on the ground, and that our best source of information were people who had defected and had other agendas.

ENSOR: Back in the fall of 2002, Bush administration rhetoric about Iraq was ramping up.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun, that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

ENSOR: Fast-forward to 2005, and the rhetoric is about Iran. Warnings to Tehran to give up its nuclear programs or face uncertain consequences. On January 20, inauguration day, Vice President Cheney told an interviewer that, quote, "The Israelis might well decide to act first, and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterwards."

(on camera) What did you think when Vice President Cheney warned that the Israelis might attack Iran?

KAY: I actually don't think it was an effective threat.

ENSOR (voice-over): Not effective, argues Kay, because times have changed since 1981 when Israeli jets knocked out the Iraqi nuclear program with just one raid.

KAY: I think the Iranians know what the Israelis did, and that's why they've scattered their program and made it very difficult to locate.

ENSOR: Kay says the administration is making a mistake not to sit down with the Iranians and offer them security guarantees from a super power that they cannot get in their ongoing discussions with European diplomats about giving up their nuclear programs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: But administration officials privately say they have doubts a deal could be done with and then honored by Tehran. Officials tell CNN a methodical review of U.S. intelligence on Iran's nuclear facilities is under way and that the administration is in no mood to soften its warnings to Tehran -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thank you very much. David Ensor.

Coming up, how serious is the terrorist threat to our bridges and tunnels? We'll have an answer in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Lawmakers on Capitol Hill are bitterly divided over how to deal with the rising number of illegal aliens working on our farms. More than half the farm workers in the United States are now illegal aliens. A bill in Congress would give those illegal aliens legal status, but opponents say the bill is nothing less than an amnesty.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The legislation is known as the Ag Jobs bill. It would allow for as many as a million illegal farm workers in the United States to obtain legal residency and eventually permanent citizenship.

Supporters say the illegal workers are a vital part of the economy and should be recognized.

SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R), IDAHO: It's not giving anything away. It's attempting to correct the problem. It's doing the background checks. It'S making sure that we have a legal and legitimate workforce, so that, as we plug all these holes and change the character of a broken immigration law, we do so without collapsing the very economy that feeds our country.

SYLVESTER: There are at least 33 cosponsors in the Senate, but, in the House, support is lacking. Key Republicans flatly oppose any amnesty programs.

Steve Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies says giving illegal aliens legal status sends the wrong message.

STEVEN CAMAROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: By giving green cards to illegal aliens, we tell everybody who's played by the rules and has waited their turn in their home country to come to America that they're fools, that they're dupes because they obeyed the law.

SYLVESTER: Other immigration reform groups say there is a surplus of farm workers already in the United States, adding an agricultural amnesty program will only push wages down further.

ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERS USA: In California, the unemployment rate of agricultural workers is 50 percent. Farm workers are being paid about the same wages that they're making in Mexico in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: President Bush has proposed a broader guest worker program that includes other industries, but even the White House plan does not put the workers on a path toward permanent citizenship -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.

Lisa Sylvester.

That does bring us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe illegal aliens with agriculture jobs in this country should be given legal status? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com, and we'll bring you the results later in the show.

Well, 2005 could be the warmest year on record. NASA scientists say a weak El Nino and greenhouse gases are to blame. While climate events like El Nino play a part in human-made pollutants, human-made pollutants are mostly responsible for a spike in the temperatures over the past 30 years. Now the warmest year currently on record is 1998.

Next, a former Russian dissident who has tremendous influence over the president's policies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: President Bush has made the promotion of democracy around the world the center of his second-term foreign policy. The president's strategy has been strongly influenced by a former Soviet dissident who's now a minister in the Israeli government, Natan Sharansky, and he's the author of "The Case for Democracy: The Power of Freedom to Overcome Tyranny and Terror."

White House Correspondent Dana Bash has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On Capitol Hill, they line up, smile for a photo, sign a book, maybe two. A bipartisan buzz not for a rock star, but former refusenick Natan Sharansky.

Why all the hype?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a book that, however, summarizes how I feel. I would urge people to read it.

BASH: In November, Sharansky was summoned to the Oval Office to discuss his case for democracy, that supporting freedom in oppressed societies should outweigh stable relations. It was January's inaugural theme.

BUSH: ... with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was listening to the president's speech. I said, gosh, I could cite chapters it came out of.

BASH: This just any author who caught the president's attention. Two decades ago, a prisoner in the Soviet Gulag, a human rights icon, released in 1986 to Israel, a hero's welcome at the Reagan White House.

Now he has Washington's attention again.

NATAN SHARANSKY, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT MINISTER: Saudi Arabia is run by a tribal dictatorship.

BASH: His message: Big speeches on liberty are welcome, but just a start.

SHARANSKY: I do want to see, of course, that President Bush will start implementing this policy.

BASH: Sharansky wants a clear litmus test for the newly elected Palestinian leadership to fight not just terrorism, but corruption.

SHARANSKY: If they don't embrace democratic reforms, if they will resist these reforms, there should be no legitimacy. There should be no support.

BASH: Pushing friendly governments is hard, Sharansky concedes, so he considers Mr. Bush's upcoming meeting with President Putin a defining moment.

SHARANSKY: There should be seen the linkage between the question of human rights in Russia and a relation between the United States of America and Russia.

BASH: His biggest question: Will the president now get tough with Saudi Arabia?

SHARANSKY: What is the force (ph) of Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia wants to have America as a friend, a big supporter and, at the same time, as a big Satan.

BASH: For now, he takes solace in helping shape a vibrant debate...

REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: It's not everybody who gets the president of the United States to serve as a their literary agent.

BASH: ... and keen interest in whether a kindred spirit in the White House turns lofty words into a sustained push for freedom, societies where Natan Sharansky says fear has ruled far too long.

Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Next, why the United States may not be prepared to respond to a North Korean nuclear threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.

PILGRIM: In a moment, I'll talk to U.S. foreign policy expert Ian Bremmer about North Korea's nuclear threat.

But, first, these stories.

A deadly two-day prison riot in Argentina has ended after an overnight standoff with security forces. Inmates released all 70 of their hostages, but eight people were killed in the riot. Police say half of the hostages were visiting family members, and the rest were prison officials.

In Venezuela, 16 people are dead after three days of floods and landslides. The government has sent helicopters and Navy ships to evacuate thousands of people that are still stranded by floodwaters.

Playwright Arthur Miller dead at the age of 89. The Pulitzer Prizewinner who wrote "Death of a Salesman" and "The Crucible" died of heart failure last night at his Connecticut home. He was surrounded by family and friends.

President Bush is trying to focus on his domestic agenda, but, this week, events overseas are once again demanding the president's full attention.

For the first time, North Korea has declared it has nuclear weapons, and Iran is refusing to back down in the confrontation over its suspected nuclear weapons program. At the same time, the United States is still fighting a war in Iraq.

Well, joining me now is Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group.

And thanks for being with us.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: Good evening.

PILGRIM: Let's start with North Korea. What are our policy options? We've had really a war of words this week? What can the United States do at this point?

BREMMER: Sit and wait largely. The North Koreans, of course, have announced they have nuclear weapons, they've also announced that they're pulling out of the six-party talks indefinitely, and the United States response is, well, the North Koreans really need to go back to talks.

So it's sort of delay, and part of that is because the U.S. doesn't really know the extent of North Korea's nuclear program, doesn't have military options even if they wanted them and, frankly, doesn't have a lot of support from some of the other parties to this discussion.

The Chinese have already said they don't support U.S. policy of complete verifiable irreversible denuclearization in North Korea.

PILGRIM: Isn't the pressure really on the Chinese, or shouldn't the United States put the pressure on the Chinese?

BREMMER: Well, they can, but the Chinese are very concerned about instability. We have to recognize that the greatest area of social dissent in all of China in the last year have been large numbers of demonstrations just on the Chinese side of the North Korean border. They don't want to see larger numbers of refugees from North Korea. That means they really want to make sure that North Korea doesn't become unstable, so they are loathe to put significant pressure on the North Koreans.

At this point, the real question has been -- since the North Koreans have shown themselves very willing to push America's red lines, whether it is getting rid of the inspectors from the nuclear facilities a couple of years ago or now declaring they have nuclear weapons, the real question is what's preventing the North Koreans from a nuclear test, and, frankly, the answer is probably not very much.

PILGRIM: How soon could they be ready for one or might they try one, Ian?

BREMMER: Well, the problem, of course, is we don't know. There's very little intelligence here. It's not like Iraq. And, of course, there were difficulties with WMD intelligence on Iraq as well. The belief is that they could test a nuclear weapon underground at present if they really wanted to, and the question is only one of when the North Koreans feel that they're being under pressure and that they need to respond in such a way.

The real potential move in that direction could come with the Japanese who get a lot of domestic support from putting more pressure on the North Koreans. They may put sanctions on the North Koreans in the coming months. If they do, that might be the time the North Koreans respond.

PILGRIM: Let me switch countries on you and go to Iran, again, a nuclear issue, potential nuclear threat. What kind of policy options should we be pursuing on Iran? And there's been a little bit of criticism this week that the rhetoric has been ratcheted up. Is it just rhetoric, or do you think that plans are in place for more serious action?

BREMMER: Well, there are some plans in place. We've heard from Condoleezza Rice now twice, several months ago after the agreement with the IAEA and the Iranians and now just over the past couple days, that the United States reserves the right to bring this issue unilaterally to the Security Council for sanctions on Iran, if they don't think they're getting sufficient cooperation from the Iranians. Obviously, the American government does not believe they're getting that cooperation.

Now the Chinese who have already signed a major agreement with the Iranians for a very large gas deal, $75 billion, have said they will oppose any sanctions at the U.N. So why would Condi Rice want to bring this to the U.N. potentially if they know the Chinese are going to oppose it.

And the reality is that you need to go through the multilateral hoops, both the negotiations with the Europeans and the arms inspectors, as well as through the Security Council, before you can really consider whether you want to engage in policies of undermining existing regimes or surgical strikes against nuclear facilities.

In that regard, it's very important to focus on the fact that Condi Rice says that at this point -- at this point -- the U.S. is not considering military options. The point may well be coming.

PILGRIM: I have to ask you before we go, but they're telling me we're almost out of time. You did do some analysis for us on the Iraqi elections. We won't have results for maybe possibly another week, but what is your assessment of the way they went?

BREMMER: Well, I think the -- no question, wonderful surprise that there wasn't as much violence as was concerned in places like Baghdad.

The negative issue is that a lot of people voted with their hearts, and that means it looks like the Sistani list did much better than expected in the Shia parts of Iraq. The Allawi list, present Prime Minister Allawi, in Iraq didn't do as well. That means, as we get closer to Iraqi constitutional discussions towards October, it's going to be harder to get the Sunnis involved, it's going to be harder to come up with something that the Kurds are willing to agree with. That makes nation state-building in Iraq a bigger challenge for the U.S. on the ground.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much.

Ian Bremmer of Eurasia Group.

In our special report, "America's Security Risks," we focus tonight on the threat to our bridges and tunnels. Now those bridges and tunnels are vital links in our national highway system. A terrorist attack on just a small number of them could be highly costly to our economy.

Christine Romans has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America's highway infrastructure is aging, carrying more traffic than ever. At the same time, security risks are running high.

It's an enormous target to protect: 160,000 miles of national highways, three million miles of local roads and arterial highways, 400 highway-related tunnels and 590,000 bridges. Almost 600 bridges and tunnels have been identified as critical to the economically. The loss of a landmark bridge could exceed $10 billion. They're patrolled on foot and by security cameras, protected by blast shielding. And some tunnel vents have been secured against chemical or biological attacks, but transit experts say it would be impossible to protect everything, and outside of the most high profile targets, they say money is best spent for much-needed maintenance, especially for bridges.

TONY KANE, STATE HIGHWAY AND TRANSP. OFFICIALS: I kind of call it the baby-boomer problem of bridges structures, where we're hitting the 50-year life of them. And functional deficiencies, or the fact that traffic has grown far faster than we ever imagined.

ROMANS: More people are traveling farther and bigger trucks are carrying heavier loads. 28 percent of our bridges are deficient.

ANDY HERMAN, AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS: Back in 2001, had the report card for America's infrastructure. And in 2001, bridges received a grade of C.

ROMANS: There's been little improvement since. Oklahoma leads the nation with the highest percentage of structurally deficient bridges, but there are plenty across the country. Federal funding has been growing, but states in recent years have raided their federal highway dollars to cover state budget shortfalls. And since 2003, Congress has only passed temporary transportation funding.

In this budget is $284 billion in highway funding for the next six years.

(on camera): It's an expensive struggle just to maintain them, let alone improve them. Security has been a priority since before September 11, 2001. Already 42,000 people a year die on our roads. Christine Romans, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Turning now to homeland security and the president's budget. My next guest says the Bush administration is gutting the very programs that help secure or country. Joseph Estey is the president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, which represents 19,000 members. And he joins me now from Miami. Thanks very much for joining us.

JOSEPH ESTEY, INTERNATIONAL ASSOC. OF CHIEFS OF POLICE: My pleasure, Kitty.

PILGRIM: What kind of service risk -- security risk, are we facing with this type of a budget?

ESTEY: Well, the concern is that it's just dwindling resources. And with increased responsibilities and looking at what's -- you know, what the planning is, and trying to figure out, you know, what our increased responsibilities are. It's a drastic cut in what's going to be available to state, local law enforcement for battling those things, if not just basic use for law enforcement in accomplishing their basic job.

PILGRIM: What are we talking about here, Stretching the forces too thin or actually cutting specific programs?

ESTEY: Well, both, actually. There's a cut projected by the president that would drastically reduce almost to nothing the cops office, which is where a lot of law enforcement gets additional help and resources for specialized programs, for things like school resource officers, additional personnel that they can put on the street.

The JAG Grants, which includes burn funding, which is where law enforcement often funds positions to fights drugs on the street has been eliminated altogether. And when you look at homeland security, which is shared with all public safety and first-responders, there's still about a 50 percent cut in funding for state and local law enforcement smaller than big cities.

PILGRIM: Tell us why first-responders are so important, especially in the current security environment?

ESTEY: Well, first responders is where the rubber meets the road. And that's where people are going to confront an emergency, whether it's an attack, whether it's a security risk, whether it's a function like the Democratic or Republican National Convention, that's where first-responders is where, you know, a lot of the resources happen right off the bat. And it's fire, it's police, it's EMS, and that's who's sort of carry the ball initially in any kind of event. PILGRIM: Can the money be made up on a local level?

ESTEY: No, that's the problem. You know, when you look at a state and local budget, 85 to 87 percent is made up of salaries and benefits. You figure another 10 percent or so for fixed costs, and those have been under attack just like everybody else. Higher energy costs for gasoline, higher benefit costs.

For example, in our community, we've had about a 50 percent increase over 2 years in our health insurance budget. So discretionary funding, the money that you use for those kind of events have all been but eliminated. And the federal resources have been the only viable for picking up those things. And now those are projected to be reduced if not eliminated by the president.

PILGRIM: Well, we certainly wish you every success in maintaining the security of this country. And thanks for being on the program to tell us about it. Joseph Estey.

ESTEY: Thank you. My pleasure.

PILGRIM: New York Central Park has become a gated community that planners hope will attract people rather than keep them out. 7,500 fabric-covered metal gates have been constructed over 23 miles of footpaths in New York's enormous park. Beginning tomorrow banners of saffron-colored fabric will catch the breeze creating what the artist Christo calls a visual golden river. Christo and his wife Jeanne- Claude will pay for all of the $21 million it will cost to stage the exhibit, which is scheduled to be on display for 16 days.

Still to come, the high cost of so-called free trade. The United States is not alone in battling unfair Chinese trade practices. The view from Europe next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Small business owners in this country are taking action to protect themselves from competition with big chain stores. Country store owners in Vermont are banding together. And their alliance is a way to protect their businesses and their way of life. Bill Tucker reports from Greensboro, Vermont.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a world of look- a-like retail boxes, the country store stands in defiance, stores where no two are alike, some of which have been around since the 1800's. A place where you can buy hunting and fishing licenses and pick up your mail. A place where you can find your neighbor.

MIM HERWIG, LOCAL PATRON: I come whenever I need something, because it's the heart of the community. It's what keeps us all going.

TUCKER: And grab some conversation.

EUGENE BOOSKA, SNOWSVILLE GENERAL STORE: Something happens to the family, I'll say, how's so-and-so doing?

TUCKER: Stores where locals can buy locally grown produce, local dairy, meats, stores with shelves lined with products made in Vermont.

AL FLOYD, FLOYD'S GENERAL STORE: The only thing I can tell you is we keep our money local. When you come in and pay us, we go to the bank, local bank, deposit our money, and spend our money here local. Wal-Mart exports it all.

TUCKER (on camera): Looking to generate business and create a brand name, store owners formed a grass-roots alliance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why did we start? We started to help promote and preserve these cultural heritage centers.

TUCKER (voice-over): The alliance started 5 years ago. Stores preserve more than just cultural heritage, they're crucial to the state's small manufacturers.

KEN HUGHES, LOCAL MANUFACTURERS REPRESENTATIVE: I can't sell to a, say, Cumberland Farms, because that's the mega convenience store chain. So it's the little Vermont country stores that I'm able to put my Vermont-made products in, and the two just go together perfectly.

TUCKER: Vermont's agricultural agency estimates that if locals buy just 10 percent of their total purchases from state farmers, it adds $100 million to the state's economy.

JENNIFER GRANOVAC, VT AGENCY OF AGRICULTURE: To some people, they don't understand how little change can make such a big difference.

TUCKER: And sometimes the bottom line just can't be defined in dollars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know this. We're all going to be one big interstate access (ph), and we're all going to be those nameless, faceless, uninspired people behind the counter who can't even make change and can't even say hello.

TUCKER: Bill Tucker, CNN, Greensboro, Vermont.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: The European Union today said it's willing to stop government loans for Airbus, but only if the United States agrees to stop similar aid for Boeing. European governments have provided $15 billion in loans to help Airbus develop new aircraft over the last three decades. Peter Mandelson is the European Union's commissioner for trade, and he joins me tonight from Washington. Thanks very much for being here, sir.

PETER MANDELSON, EU TRADE COMMISSIONER: Great pleasure to be with you.

PILGRIM: Now, these loans for Airbus are kind of a sore point, because they're made a little bit less than market rate, and so that gives the impression, and perhaps is factually true, that Europe subsidizes its aircraft industry. Do you think that we'll have a breakthrough here?

MANDELSON: I hope we have a breakthrough, because we don't want these two great titans of the civil aviation sector, you know, slugging it out and killing each other. If they have differences of opinion, then we should be helping to resolve those differences, and that's what we're doing through our negotiations.

But if I can just say this, it's true that some European governments choose to invest in Airbus, but those are loans, and they're repaid with royalties.

In the case of Boeing, they too get an enormous amount of grants and financial support from American taxpayers as well as others around the world. So if we're going to discipline one, we have to discipline the other. And that's what we want the outcome of our talks to be.

PILGRIM: It's very much a sore point in this country, I'm sure it is in Europe also. Where do we go from here? How is it resolved? What's the timetable on it? Because it's been dragging on for years.

MANDELSON: Well, we've set ourselves three months to have these negotiations. I mean, the alternative is to take the case to the World Trade Organization in Geneva, in effect take it to the court, and it will take very many months, if not more years, with lawyers lining their pockets in the process representing both sides.

I think that we should have a mutual balanced reduction of taxpayer support, government finance, both for Airbus and Boeing, and that's the outcome I want to see from these talks.

But before you demonize Airbus too much, a very successful European company, increasing its market share of the large civil aviation market, it also brings a great deal of wealth here to the United States of America. Airbus spends more than $6 billion a year purchasing parts and engines and the like and hydraulics for its aircraft. It supports 140,000 jobs in over 40 states in the U.S. So Airbus is doing very well for the U.S., and that's something to be borne in mind. But it must compete fairly, and that's what we want to see.

PILGRIM: Well, we celebrate that. Let's ask you one more thing, and we have to do it quickly, but it's an important issue. The dollar has declined seriously against the euro. Some economists are predicting that the dollar could actually crash. What is your estimation on the disparity in the exchange rate now, and do you expect it to continue? I'm asking you to put your economist hat on a bit.

MANDELSON: Well, I am not going to speculate, because that's not what politicians should do. It's a fool's game. The market will set the right rate for the dollar, but it creates competitive difficulties for us. It's great for America's exporters, but it is indeed difficult for the rest of us. But you know, this is a matter for the markets, it's not a matter for politicians, and I'm not going to predict where the dollar is going to go next.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much for being with us, Peter Mandelson.

MANDELSON: Great pleasure.

PILGRIM: Thank you.

Wal-Mart's CEO is defending his company's decision to close one of its Canadian stores after its employees voted to form a union.

Now, this would have been Wal-Mart's first contract agreement. In an interview with "The Washington Post," Wal-Mart's CEO, Lee Scott, said he would not agree to union demands for the sake of being, quote, "altruistic." The 190 employees at the Quebec store will be laid off.

Next, an Army National Guardsman honored for bravery on the field of battle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Supporters of President Bush are having a little fun at Hollywood's expense. They're thanking some of the most outspoken opponents of the president for unintentionally helping him win reelection. Well, the theory is people became so annoyed with outspoken celebrities during the campaign, they actually voted for the president.

Whether or not that is true is debatable, but a billboard shows President Bush, along with Michael Moore, Martin Sheen, Whoopi Goldberg and others, and it reads: "4 more years, thank you Hollywood." The conservative group Citizens United posted the billboard a block away from the Kodak Theater in Los Angeles, where the Academy Awards will be held later this month.

Well, joining me now, three of the country's top journalists. From Washington, we're joined by Roger Simon of "U.S. News & World Report," Karen Tumulty of "Time" magazine, and right here with me in New York is Jim Ellis of "Businessweek." Thanks for being with us.

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Hi, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Let's start with the budget, and I'll start with Jim Ellis, since he's sitting closest to me.

The budget proposal came out. A lot of criticism. It did leave out Iraq, it did leave out Afghanistan, it did leave out the costs of Social Security. That all aside, where do we stand? What's your view?

JIM ELLIS, BUSINESSWEEK: Well, all that aside, it's very difficult to talk about the budget, simply because the numbers are so fuzzy. I mean, that's $2.6 trillion, it's a lot of money, but if you start adding the things that aren't there, the $2 trillion to fix Social Security if it needs to be fixed, the $500 billion to actually get rid of the AMT problem. There's a lot here. The deficit coming down in half by the end of the decade is rather unlikely, and I think that what's going to hurt the president now is if people in Congress, even his supporters, are going to start to wonder, is he really being right with us about the numbers?

PILGRIM: Well, sitting here at the epicenter of the debate, we're hearing people complaining about the cuts, and then also people talking about that pledge to cut the deficit in half in five years. So you're getting both sides of the story. Karen, where do you stand on this?

TUMULTY: Well, the other thing that happened this week at a really bad time for the administration is its credibility on all of these numbers took another big blow when we found out that the cost of this great Medicare prescription drug plan that Congress passed last year was in fact going to be almost twice as much as the administration originally estimated. It was started out $400 million plus change now it will be over $700 million.

So that, at a time when the administration is, a, trying to sort of refurbish the Republicans' reputation on fiscal discipline and, b, trying to sell a big, new, expensive Social Security program could not have come at a worse time.

PILGRIM: Roger? All this funny math annoying you, too?

ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Well, this is a fantasy budget. The reductions, the cutbacks are not going to happen. These are cutbacks to preschool children, these are cutbacks to the National Parks Service, this is cutbacks to law enforcement and cutbacks Amtrak, which is very popular with Congress. It's hard to imagine that Congress will ever make these cutbacks, and also the entire budget is premised as the "New York Times" pointed out on the belief that in the next five years, everything that the government buys from paper clips to space shuttles will not go up in price. That's not just a fantasy, that's a hallucination. I just don't think that the president is going to achieve his goals with this budget.

PILGRIM: As all this domestic stuff is going on the headlines really have been about international affairs and North Korea claiming the biggest of the wee, I would have to vote on that saying that they have a nuclear weapon. This is really drawing attention away from the domestic agenda to the international agenda and not particularly positive stuff for the president. Where do we stand on policy? Let me ask Jim first.

ELLIS: I think that we're in sort of an awkward position here simply because we don't have a lot of sway with the North Koreans. We don't want to sit down and talk to them on a bilateral basis. What it will do is it's going to push the United States to depend very heavily on China at exactly the time we don't want to have to deal with China from a position of weakness. We're having a lot of economic issues with them, but now we have to go to them and say, can you sort of lean on your ally there? That's not the best position to be in right now for the president.

PILGRIM: Karen, do you think that the six-party talks will resume, or are they pretty much finished?

TUMULTY: Well, part of the North Koreans' announcement yesterday was basically they said we've got the weapons and we have no interest in the negotiations. So I think in a lot of ways this was trying, I think, to pressure the administration into precisely what it doesn't want to do, which is two-way negotiations. And of course, it's always hard to find a rationale for anything that the North Koreans do. The fact that they have nuclear weapons is not a huge surprise, but both the timing and the choice of language, describing these weapons as an arsenal as opposed to a deterrent is, I think, got a lot of U.S. policymakers mystified.

PILGRIM: And also this week a lot of harsh words about Iran, Condoleezza Rice in Europe, Donald Rumsfeld also making some comments. Roger, what do you think about these two emerging problems that really were there the whole time?

SIMON: Well, we're dealing with two belligerent paranoid nations which makes almost by definition predicting what they'll do very difficult. And both these nations realize the limits now of U.S. power while fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can barely meet our troop requirements there, and our commitments around the world, and they know it is entirely unlikely, and probably impossible that the United States will take any kind of action against either Iran or North Korea, which is why they're increasingly belligerent.

PILGRIM: All right, we have to end it there. Roger Simon, Jim Ellis, and Karen Tumulty. Thanks very much for being with us tonight.

In "Heroes," tonight a sergeant in the National Guard who was awarded the Bronze Star for bravery. Sergeant Bruce Himelright now plans to take on a whole new challenge, and Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the National Guard armory in Chico, California, Sergeant Bruce Himelright is working off the last six months of his military career. He joined the Navy seven years ago doing active duty on a nuclear sub. After he left, life as a security guard wasn't enough, so he joined the army National Guard, a move that took him to Iraq and army honors for bravery.

SGT. BRUCE HIMELRIGHT, CALIFORNIA NATIONAL GUARD: To me it's just a soldier who is in a position where you want to survive and you want your friends survive and what else are you going to do?

WIAN: The day began like any other until a routine patrol turned deadly. Shots rang out. Himelright could feel he had been hit.

HIMELRIGHT: Once I realized I was being shot, I was able to stand up and there was an Iraqi interpreter right beside me, I was able to grab him with both arms and we jumped into a canal. Two seconds passed and I was in the bottom of the canal face-down. And I had my .16 in my hand and I looked down and I had blood all over the left side of my body. When I rolled over there was a silhouette on top of the canal and then they started shooting me in the chest as well.

WIAN: As the bullets flew Sergeant Himelright worried about his fellow soldiers.

HIMELRIGHT: I was able to actually stand up, because I only had one shot through my buttocks, left buttocks and my body armor had stopped all the other rounds. So I was very lucky.

WIAN: Himelright quickly saw two of his buddies were down. Even though he was bleeding, he crawled to the radio to call for help. When the ambulance arrived he helped move the wounded soldiers. In spite of his efforts, their lives were lost. Months later, Himelright's bravery is rewarded with a Bronze Star.

With his military career now coming to a permanent close, Sergeant Himelright plans to fulfill another lifelong goal -- becoming a police officer. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: We wish him luck.

Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll and a preview of what's ahead for Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Nine percent of you believe illegal aliens with agriculture jobs in this country should be given legal status but 91 percent do not.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us Monday. Our culture in decline series, the new series of special reports on the crumbling youth culture in our country. And then unfair Chinese trade, a bold proposal in Congress to stop the exporting of American jobs and wealth to China. And exporting your child's education to cheap foreign labor markets.

For all of us here have a great weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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