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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush to Meet with European Allies; Officials Warn of China's Increasing Military; Suicide Bombers Target Shia Worshipers on Holy Day
Aired February 18, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, February 18. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening.
President Bush today declared he cannot rule out military action against Iran over its escalating nuclear weapons program. The White House accuses Iran of trying to develop those nuclear weapons.
The president's comments come just before he visits Europe next week for talks about Iran and other key international issues.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, of course President Bush today earlier signing key legislation, controversial legislation curbing class-action lawsuits. It was considered a clear legislative victory.
But the big test, of course, whether or not he is going to win overseas. He is preparing for a five-day trip to Europe, to Belgium, Germany and the Slovak Republic. It is really seen as a U.S. charm offensive to try to repair relations with European allies.
Now, one key moment to look at is when President Bush meets with French President Jacques Chirac. They'll talk about shared goals, as well as priorities.
But there are also clear differences between the United States and the European Union, their approach to convince Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions. Now, while the E.U. is offering diplomatic and economic rewards and incentives, the U.S. does not agree with this approach.
President Bush in an interview with Belgian television earlier today, however, tried to downplay those differences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's in our interest they not have a nuclear weapon, and so we want to support the European efforts, and I applaud the efforts to continue to send a clear message to the Iranians. And we want to -- you know, we will consult like we have been to make sure that we fully understand where we stand to achieve that goal. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, of course, another moment to look at is when Bush meets with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
We heard from Putin today, who says he does not believe that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon. As a matter of fact he says Russia will continue to support its nuclear energy program.
This is really a point of contention between the United States and Russia, as well as Russia's plan to sell missiles to Syria and as well as what's seen as kind of a backslide from democratic reforms.
Today, President Bush also talking about that in an interview with Slovak state TV, saying, "I have a good relationship with President Putin, and the reason that's important is because when we give him a chance to say in private, ask him why he's been making some of the decisions he's been making. I mean, he's done some things that has concerned people."
Lou, that will be a big task, whether or not the president will say something publicly. I spoke with one European Union official, a top official, who says he doesn't expect anything substantive in terms of a change in U.S. policy, but he certainly hopes that there will be greater trust between the United States and its European allies -- Lou.
DOBBS: And Suzanne, as you're reporting, the trip itself a departure from -- from recent past experience. Thank you, Suzanne Malveaux.
The Bush administration tonight is also focusing on the rising military threat from China. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and CIA director Porter Goss this week gave testimony before Congress about the rapid modernization of Chinese -- China's military.
Tomorrow, the United States and Japan are expected to jointly declare for the first time ever that security in the Taiwan Strait is a common strategic objective.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China's defense budget has been increasing at a double-digit rate for the last decade. The communist country has been quietly buying submarines from Russia, along with aircraft and antimissile batteries.
And now China wants to expand even faster. It's asking the European Union to lift an arms embargo that has been in place since the crackdown in Tiananmen Square in 1989.
DAN BLUMENTHAL, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: China has been investing very heavily in ballistic missiles that they deploy across the strait as a tool of coercion and intimidation. They have some 500 to 600 missiles pointed at Taiwan.
SYLVESTER: CIA Director Porter Goss warned lawmakers of China's emerging threat. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged the Pentagon is keeping an eye on China, even as the Defense Department is being criticized for scaling back naval spending in the 2006 budget.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The People's Republic of China is a country that we hope and pray enters the civilized world in an orderly way without the grinding of gears.
SYLVESTER: U.S./China relations are being tested over Taiwan, which China considers to be a renegade province. Japan, for the first time is pledging to protect the safety of Taiwan along with the United States. If a war over Taiwan were to break out, it could easily escalate to a global conflict.
KENNETH LIEBERTHAL, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: That would be a war, frankly, whose repercussions would be felt for a generation. And there would be no winners, regardless of who declared victory.
SYLVESTER: The odds of a full war breaking out are slim. What's more likely is that China could replace the United States as the dominant military power in the region.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: China has also raised concerns this week because of an announcement that the country wants to expand its nuclear energy program and is interested in buying uranium from overseas, specifically from Australia. And China claims the uranium would only be used for peaceful purposes -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
China today has well blasted the U.S. warnings about its rising military buildup. The Chinese foreign ministry declared that the comments by the U.S. government are, quote, "an irresponsible act."
The ministry said that the United States is interfering in China's internal affairs, as well, and sending false signals to what it called the advocates of Taiwanese independence.
Later in the broadcast, I'll be talking about these issues and more with our former ambassador to China, James Lily, about the astonishing scale and speed of the Chinese military buildup and the United States' response, whether tepid or adequate to the challenge.
In Iraq, the worst violence since the Iraqi elections at the end of last month. Four American soldiers have been killed in combat since Wednesday. Three of those soldiers were killed in the Mosul area in northern Iraq, the other soldier killed in southern Iraq. Insurgents also killed more than two-dozen Iraqis today in a series of attacks against mosques.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DOBBS (voice-over): Insurgents today launched another wave of attacks coinciding with the Shiite holy day of Ashurah. In the deadliest attack of the day, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Shiite mosque in southwest Baghdad. Fifteen people were killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see many legs and hands, explosive. This is a terrible thing.
DOBBS: Soon after, an explosion rocked a second mosque in southwestern Baghdad. Two people were killed.
Another Iraqi was killed in a separate rocket attack on a coffee shop in northwest Baghdad. Police say the intended target was a nearby mosque.
These attacks come as the newly elected Shiite majority prepares to observe Ashurah, the holiest day of the year. The Iraqi government has been expecting sectarian violence. Last year, insurgents killed more than 180 Ashurah worshipers in Baghdad and Karbala.
MOWAFFAK AL-RUBAIE, IRAQI NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The real intention behind all that is to try to draw a rift, to dig a wedge between the Shiite and Sunnis in this country. And this is actually going to be a fruitless effort on the behalf of the terrorists.
DOBBS: The security adviser says al Qaeda's leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, is behind these attacks.
In another incident in southern Iraq today, a U.S. soldier was killed by a roadside bomb.
U.S. officials hope the Iraqi security forces will soon be able to protect their own citizens.
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Regrettably, there are acts of violence in Iraq every day, but hopefully with the election of a new government and the efforts that are being made to train and equip and motivate the Iraqi armed forces, that situation will improve over time.
DOBBS: And for many Iraqis, that time can't come too soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Meanwhile, 150,000 of our troops remain in Iraq protecting Iraqis from insurgents and the radical Islamist terrorists.
Still ahead here, a dramatic ruling today by a top drug panel about three painkillers, three drugs that can seriously raise the risk of heart problems.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A dramatic ruling today on three popular painkillers taken by millions of Americans. Advisers to the Food and Drug Administration today ruled that Celebrex, Bextra, and Vioxx should be available to anyone who needs them, even though the drugs do significantly raise the risk of heart problems.
Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was close, to say the least. Seventeen members of this FDA Advisory Committee voted in support of Vioxx going back on the market if Merck chooses to do so. Fifteen members voted no. That leads the way for Merck to try to put its popular prescription painkiller back on the shelves after pulling it off the shelves last September.
DR. PETER KIM, MERCK RESEARCH LABS: We've heard numerous reports -- and you've heard a few today -- from patients, including patients with chronic debilitating pain, that Vioxx was the only drug that relieved that pain.
COHEN: In a statement today, Merck said, "Merck has appreciated the opportunity to present data at this advisory committee meeting. We look forward to discussions with the FDA."
At Friday's meeting, there were recounts, confusion about who voted which way, prompting the committee chairman to say...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's Katherine Harris now that we need her?
DR. LEE SIMON, PFIZER CLINICAL ADVISER: I don't believe I've ever seen a committee function like this.
COHEN: Pfizer makes Celebrex and Bextra and stands to lose if Vioxx goes back on the market. All three drugs are COX-2 inhibitors, and the FDA committee was very clear that this class of drugs has serious safety concerns.
Panel members agreed unanimously that the painkillers increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes. The committee recommended that the drugs carry so-called black-box warnings, the toughest warnings possible, and that ads to consumers should not be allowed.
But, in the end, despite these concerns, the FDA advisers decided that Americans in pain should be allowed to take these medicines.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Vioxx went on the market in 1999. In 2003, worldwide sales were $2.5 billion -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elizabeth, this was a remarkably close vote, almost a political decision on what should be a medical decision. What in the world is going on here?
COHEN: Well, I think the FDA would argue with that. I mean, these were actual doctors...
DOBBS: I know they would. I don't doubt that. COHEN: I mean, these were actual doctors, actual experts who were making this decision.
Why it was so close goes to this: There were people who testified at these meetings and said I can't get out of bed without this drug, this drug helps me function, helps me get through the day, and then you had other experts, like FDA whistle-blower Dr. David Graham, saying, look, these drugs pose some very serious cardiovascular concerns -- strokes, heart attacks.
And, basically, what this advisory committee decided was, look, people can take them, but they need to know what the risks are. The FDA is sort of putting the decision in the hands of doctors and patients and saying, look, you can take them, but look at what the risks are.
DOBBS: And they will have black-box warnings, the strongest warnings on them?
COHEN: That's what this advisory committee is recommending, and those are just what they sound like. It's a black box with writing in it so that a doctor sees that first off, and some people say the black-box warnings actually make doctors kind of hesitant to prescribe a drug because it has this very strong warning, but...
DOBBS: One would certainly hope so.
Elizabeth, thank you.
Elizabeth Cohen.
Later here, I'll be talking with woman who strongly disagrees with today's ruling by the FDA panel. She is Dr. Marcia Angell. She is the author of "The Truth About Drug Companies." She says the risk associated with these painkillers far outweigh the benefits.
Republicans and Democrats across the country are already planning for 2008, the presidential election. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has only been in her new Cabinet post a few weeks, but supporters of Secretary Rice are already mapping out her campaign to be president.
Ed Henry reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the world stage, she's Rice the rock star.
GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Just, by the way, I've obviously said an open and honest congratulations on the new job.
HENRY: So, back here at home, how does President Rice sound? Music to the ears of some of the thousands of activists gathered for CPAC, the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, where there was a bit of a buzz about Condoleezza Rice.
CRYSTAL DUEKER, AMERICANSFORRICE.COM: And there were about 30 young women who came up to me basically as a group and wanting to get the campaign buttons, they wanted to get the bumper stickers.
HENRY: Crystal Dueker is part of a new draft Condi movement, americansforrice.com. On Friday, the group started running a radio ad in the critical state of Iowa, with plans to move on to New Hampshire next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... dedicated to election Dr. Condoleezza Rice president in 2008.
HENRY: They even have a catchy new campaign song.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Condoleezza will lead us, brother / Into a brave, new world / Condoleezza will lead all good people...
HENRY: A new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll finds that 50 percent of Americans have a very or somewhat positive view of Secretary Rice; 27 percent have a very or somewhat negative view. Political insiders are already dreaming about a potential Rice match-up with Senator Hillary Clinton.
A December NBC poll suggests Rice may have an edge. Forty-five percent of Americans have a very or somewhat positive view of the senator; 40 percent felt very or somewhat negative. Six secretaries of state have gone on to become president, a fact that hasn't been lost on Rice fans.
DUEKER: I basically look at her charm and her intelligence, and, whether she was Asian or Caucasian, I would still have the same admiration for her.
HENRY (on camera): A second draft Condi movement has popped up at rice2008.com, where you can even buy a bobblehead, but her legion of fans may be disappointed to learn that at least so far Secretary Rice says she has no plans to run.
Ed Henry, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Of course, it's still early yet by any measure.
A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll tonight shows a difference of opinion strikingly between blacks and whites in this country about the subject of Condoleezza Rice. Our poll shows 61 percent of whites have a favorable opinion of our new secretary of state, while 24 percent have an unfavorable opinion. Forty-four percent of blacks have a favorable opinion, while 37 percent say they have an unfavorable opinion.
Turning to "Broken Borders," the Iowa Supreme Court tonight is taking a firm stand against illegal aliens. The state's high court ruled today that illegal aliens do not have the right to obtain a U.S. driver's license. The court said, "We conclude the state's licensing scheme is rationally related to the legitimate state interest of not allowing its governmental machinery to be a facilitator for the concealment of illegal aliens." Forty- nine other states may take note.
In Iowa, applicants for a driver's license are required to show identification and a valid Social Security card. The illegal aliens' attorney argued that the requirement violates the illegal aliens' rights under the U.S. constitution. That's the U.S. Constitution written to protect the rights of U.S. citizens, not the rights of illegal aliens.
We believe the Iowa Supreme Court should be congratulated for recognizing the critical distinction.
Earlier this week, I was joined by Congressman George Miller. The congressman was calling for an investigation into Wal-Mart's secret settlement with the U.S. Labor Department. Congressman Miller said that settlement was a sweetheart deal for the nation's largest employer.
Tonight, we can report to you the inspector general of the Labor Department has announced plans to review the circumstances surrounding that agreement that Congressman Miller calls a sweetheart deal. The agreement gave Wal-Mart two weeks' notice to correct any labor complaints by employees before the Labor Department investigated or would take action.
Next here, "Exporting America"'s future. High school graduates face fewer and fewer career choices because American jobs are being exported to cheap foreign markets.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This week, we have been reporting on the issues that amount to a "Culture in Decline" in this country in the minds of many. Tonight, we take a look at the town of Canton, Ohio. In Canton, outsourcing is affecting the next generation of workers and citizens, even before they graduate from high school. But one school in Canton is working and trying very hard to keep its students ahead of a rapidly outsourced economy.
Kitty Pilgrim has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For generations, Canton South High School students not going on to college could count on a career at a local manufacturing facility, but now those options are disappearing. Factories are shuttered. The town is reeling from economic loss.
Students are desperately trying to find fields where job creation is good. Trista Medley, a senior, is starting nursing school next year. The local steel mill where her father works is on the verge of moving elsewhere.
TRISTA MEDLEY, CANTON SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: My dad works at Timken's, and they're thinking every closing down his plant and sending it to Mexico. So it's uncertain whether he'll have a job next year.
PILGRIM: Christie Lightfritz saw her mother's job disappear to Mexico. For Christie, the lesson was clear.
CHRISTIE LIGHTFRITZ, CANTON SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN: If you don't go to college and you just want to get a job, You know, in your neighborhood and your town that's high-paying, you want to work in a factory, and, whenever we get older, there's not going to be any of those left.
PILGRIM: Canton South is doing the best it can with special vocational training. They offer restaurant management courses and auto maintenance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have these wires backwards.
PILGRIM: But even in those service industries, career counselors are realistic.
TOM BRATTEN, CAREER & TECHNOLOGY DIRECTOR, CANTON SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL: We still teach your basics, manufacturing jobs, but we, like I said, have stepped up the technology to try to keep up with the times.
PILGRIM: One thing is clear: This generation of Canton South students will enter a world completely different than the one their parents faced.
THERESA PURSES, SUPERINTENDENT, CANTON LOCAL SCHOOLS: All of our students have to look at training beyond high school. A diploma is not going to be enough for most of our kids, and that's one of the things that's really changed. Parents right now are finding out that the job they counted on and the company they were loyal to doesn't exist anymore.
PILGRIM: Even for vocational training, the school is pushing for every student to try for financial aid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now the school actually mentors the students, starting as early as the 7th grade, to talk about realistic career options. It's a necessary step because, in many cases, these students will be the first in their families to continue past high school.
And, Lou, every high school kid in this country takes at least one vocational training course, so funding for these things is very, very important.
DOBBS: And the fact is that there's no clear path here for any of these kids who do not choose to go on to get an advanced education because of outsourcing, because of the diminishment of the manufacturing base.
PILGRIM: They're really at a loss on what to do, and they're trying to find ways to further their education. Some just don't have the money for college.
DOBBS: Yes. And I think, as we say, the students are lost, and, of course, our hearts go out to them, and it's one of the reasons we report here extensively on these issues, both the economic and political issues that are contributing to this. The fact is the teachers don't know, the administrators don't know, and, too often, the politicians and the officeholders have no clue.
PILGRIM: It's very hard for these communities to come up with creative solutions when there's no industry right there.
DOBBS: Kitty Pilgrim.
Thank you very much.
Next, a leading medical expert. She warns that painkillers like Vioxx are simply too risky to be going back on the market, as the FDA has permitted.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a moment, the growing military threat from China and whether the United States has created a strategy in response. We'll be joined by our former ambassador to China to discuss those issues.
But, first, these important stories this evening.
Catholic bishops across the country now say they've received more than 1,000 new claims of sex abuse. The allegations are directed at more than 750 priests. A church official says half of those have been accused before. The Catholic Church has paid out more than $800 million so far in settlement of abuse claims.
Canada may cut exports of prescription drugs to the United States. That is one option the Canadian government is now considering as a way to keep its own prices for drugs low. The move could virtually shut down the country's billion-dollar mail-order drug market to this country.
And NASA today set May 15 as the target date for the next launch of the space shuttle. The shuttle Discovery will be the first to leave the pad, followed by Atlantis two months later. The shuttle fleet has been grounded since the Columbia disaster just over two years ago.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and CIA Director Porter Goss this week testified before Congress about the escalating military threat from China. By some estimates, China will have more warships than the United States in just a decade. The Chinese military buildup coincides with China's explosive economic expansion. China's economy could be larger than our own within a quarter-century.
Joining me now is James Lilley, a former U.S. ambassador to China, and now a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
Ambassador, good to have you with us.
JAMES LILLEY, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: China as you and I have discussed before has not always been at the forefront of policymakers' planning nor strategy. Do you think that the comments by, amongst others, Porter Goss, the CIA director, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, means that that's changing?
LILLEY: No. But I think it's get more outspoken, more realistic. And there are certain major trends here. I don't think you could see these comments in isolation.
First of all, Porter Goss made a very worst-case discussion of the Chinese military build-up. He left out the economic dimension, which I wish he had followed. You haven't seen the Chinese react -- they were in to my office this morning asking about this new Japanese- American initiative.
There is a huge shift going on. Russians are having maneuvers with both the Chinese and for the first time with the Japanese. This kind of shifting, our moving into Southeast Asia and working them militarily and politically and militarily with facilities in Singapore, alliance with Thailand, Philippines, a very strong alliance with Australia. And also the United States position in the Taiwan Strait, where we have with Japan come out with the statement which probably rules out any activity on the seas for a long time to come. The power of the United States and Japan on the seas is overwhelming.
DOBBS: Overwhelming, yet the analysis estimates suggest that the Chinese Navy could exceed that of at least in terms of numbers of vessels, that of of the United States within a decade.
LILLEY: The Navy isn't done by numbers, Lou. It's the way you train people. Submarines, aircraft carriers, destroyers, these people have to be trained. The Chinese have never really had an action against a powerful force on the seas. The last time was in the early Ming dynasty in 1700.
They do not do well on the seas. They are getting submarines, hilo-class diesels from Russia. They have got these DF-31 intermediate-range ballistic missiles, a couple of hundred against our thousands of them.
They have got these multiple warhead mobile missiles with solid fuel, but they can't begin to match our outlay. So, although they're building up and Rumsfeld is right, we have to watch this thing very carefully, the dynamism is in the economic relationship between Taiwan and China as I mentioned before. This makes war very unattractive.
DOBBS: It makes war unattractive, but people forget that in World War II, the relationship to Germany and Japan was also significant in terms of economic trade between the United States, even England at the time. It is particularly the level of trade which is now one-way, to look at that as somehow separated, as it is in the minds of most policymakers, politics and economics -- without U.S. policy coming together with both influence in the relationship, doesn't it strike you a bit limiting?
LILLEY: I think what one sees in this arrangement -- you can always make the case on economics not working. It's Marxist determinism, but in World War I, it happened and they fault. World War II, as you mentioned, yes. But right now the interdependence between China and Taiwan for Chinese growth that leads to their own stability and prosperity is linked to Taiwan imports.
Taiwan probably has equity in 70 percent of the Chinese information technology industry, just as an example. It's a very strong link into China. And to begin to tamper with this, with blockades, embargoes, missile shots, runs very serious risk, especially when you run the risk of really losing very, very badly. So the Chinese are very calculating, very intelligent. Those missiles on Fukien Coast are intimidation.
DOBBS: Intimidation, but the fact is that the Chinese at this point have been nothing less than bullying, as you know, constantly warning this administration and Taiwan that even the whiff of independence is enough to invite response. The fact that Japan and the United States would say that the security of Taiwan is a common strategic interest certainly has to give the Chinese pause, does it not, ambassador?
LILLEY: Oh, yes, I think it does. And they were in my office this morning asking me what this was all about. But I do think that in this Chinese case, there is an awful lot of gong-banging in the Taiwan Strait. It's a war of words.
I can tell you that very few people get killed in the Taiwan Strait. The last time was 1958, when the Chinese Migs were shot out of the air by F-86's from Taiwan with sidewinder missiles. You don't fight wars in the Taiwan Strait since the '50s. It's a lot of push, parry, gong-banging, thrust, this sort of thing.
I take it seriously, but you can't be overwhelmed about it.
DOBBS: Ambassador, we thank you for thank you for being with us. Ambassador James Lilley.
LILLEY: Thank you.
DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question, "Do you believe the United States is adequately prepared, strategically and militarily, to contend with the rising Chinese threat to U.S. interests? Yes or no." Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later here in the broadcast.
Now, our weekly salute to the men and women, the heroes who defend this country. Tonight, the story of Marine Sergeant Scott Montoya who has been awarded the Navy's sect highest honor, the Navy Cross. Casey Wian has his story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's 5:30 A.M., and Orange County sheriff deputy Scott Montoya is finishing the 12-hour patrol shift.
SCOTT MONTOYA: Today's my last day of training so -- thank you for all your time and patients.
WIAN: It's taken Montoya 15 years to win promotion to patrolman because of his other job, a Marine Corps sniper.
MONTOYA: I joined the Marine Corps for the Spree de corps (ph) What they call it in Orange County Sheriff's Academy. They would walk up to each other and kind of look at each other and kind of see the bad haircut and look at each other like, hey, Marine, you a Marine? Immediately they would be best friends.
WIAN: At dawn, Montoya wears a different hat.
MONTOYA: I come out here every day to look at him. It's kind of like my therapy.
WIAN: His easy calm with his horses reveals a different side of a man who's a martial arts expert and war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Sergeant Scott C. Montoya.
WIAN: On April 8, 2003, the Marines were in a street fight outside Baghdad. Under a barrage of gunfire, Montoya rescued an injured Iraqi civilian, then returned to the middle of the street 5 times to rescue wounded Marines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire and utmost devotion to duty, Sergeant Montoya reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.
WIAN: Montoya is humble.
MONTOYA: The scripture in the Bible says no greater love hath no man than a man who lays down his life for his friends. And I believe that in my heart. Is that I would have done it. I never met the Marine before that day, and I haven't seen him since that day. All those Marines helped out. I never even shooken their hands again. But you know what, I would do it all again. I would do it all again.
WIAN: MONTOYA plans to remain in the Marine Corps and move on to a leadership role in the sheriff's department. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Outstanding. And we wish Sergeant Montoya the very best of luck.
Many have written in to ask about another remarkable hero that we featured here this week, Captain David Rozelle was our guest here. Captain Rozelle lost his foot when his Humvee was blown up by a landmine in Iraq. He becomes the first amputee to qualify for full duty. And he is at the beginning of next month returning to Iraq.
Now, after many months of intense rehabilitation and being certified fit for duty, he will be on active duty in Iraq, leading his men and women into combat.
Captain Rozelle shares his incredible story in his new book. The book is entitled "Back in Action: An American Soldier's Story of Courage, Faith and Fortitude." Captain Rozelle, exemplary in all respects, those qualities just among the few that he has demonstrated through his life.
And we'd like to extent or congratulations tonight. We focus on a lot of things that don't work well in this country, and a lot of people, particularly, in public office whose efforts are not always to the highest standards.
But we want to complement and congratulate Senator Pat Roberts of Kansas. He's the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He's fought for 11 marines mistakenly awarded the Purple Heart. Senator Roberts, himself a Marine, prompted an apology to the Commandant of the Marine Corps to one Kansas marine who was mistakenly awarded the medal. Senator Roberts also prompted a resolution from Kansas legislators that the resolution would ask Congress to direct the Marine Corps to allow that Kansas Marine to keep that medal.
Tonight's thought is on heroes, "A country grows in history not only because of the heroism of its troops on the field of battle, it grows also when it turns to justice and to right for the conservation of interests."
Still ahead here, 3 of the country's top journalists. We'll be talking politics, economics, and, yes, the axis of evil. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now are three of the country's top journalists -- from Boston tonight, Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report." From Washington, D.C., Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine. And joining me here in New York City, Mark Morrison, "Businessweek."
Karen, let me turn to you first and begin with this decision today, the FDA panel recommending by a very close vote that these COX- 2 medication be permitted into the market. Your reaction.
KAREN TUMULTY, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, of course that controversy is going to continue, and of course that is the question of whether drug companies themselves have too much influence in the process of deciding what is and isn't a safe drug. But I think in the end, what the advisory board was swayed by was the testimony by real people coming up and saying, basically, you know, I can't get out of bed in the morning without these drugs.
MARK MORRISON, BUSINESSWEEK: The political pressure was very intense on them, obviously, but this was very surprising, and a very important decision, it seems to me. Merck stock went up more than 10 percent today, because now the expectation is that Vioxx will be back on the market, and this also has some ramifications for all the legal activities against the drug companies that seems to validate the idea that it's a reasonable thing to have these drugs on the market.
The other interesting thing is the advertising restrictions on these drugs, which is a new kind of thing, as far as I know, for the FDA to hold back on some of the advertising that was pushing it out there.
DOBBS: The drug companies spending far more on advertising than they are are on R&D, as you know, and the fact that they would put these black-box warnings on this medicine should have a chilling effect, but again, we have to remember, this is only a recommendation by an FDA panel, not the final decision.
A recommendation from the president of the United States, Roger Simon, that John Negroponte be the first director of national intelligence. He seems eminently qualified. Both Democrats and Republicans I've talked with are fully supportive, Roger. Have you heard a naysayer?
ROGER SIMON, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: Well, the families of the 9/11 victims issued a statement saying they wanted someone -- they had wanted someone with more intelligence experience, but I think it's actually a good thing he's not an intelligence officer. All of our intelligence geniuses missed 25 to 30 warnings that the 9/11 attacks were going to take place. What we need in that job is a manager, a guy who can be tough, and a guy who can get the 15 intelligence agencies and the Pentagon to start talking to each other, and to safeguard the United States.
This could be a very thankless job. It has a lot of responsibility, but a lot of the authority has been stripped away.
DOBBS: Well, amongst the people who won't be thanking him would be, I would assume, Porter Goss, who (UNINTELLIGIBLE) his appointment is effectively demoted, Karen. The impact there?
TUMULTY: Well, it's not only Porter Goss. One of the big interesting relationships to watch is going to be his relationship with Don Rumsfeld. The fact is that intelligence in this country, as we have learned from the 9/11 Commission, has been a series -- it has been a combination of fiefdoms. And as Roger says, it is less -- it is going to be less the question of Negroponte's expertise than the actual influence he has. The president, for instance, said that he will be -- he will be the person who gives him the daily briefing, but as we saw with Tom Ridge at the Department of Homeland Security, another department that was newly created in a coordinating role, it sometimes doesn't work out in practice as it's supposed to in principle. DOBBS: I think we also need to focus, when we talk about John Negroponte, I've heard a number of people refer to him as a diplomat. He's been far more than that, serving in the foreign service, from Vietnam, extensively over four decades, a dedicated public servant and a very, very bright one. Some talent. So it is going to be interesting to see how this proceeds.
MORRISON: He does have all the talent you're talking about. It is going to be a real test of it, though, as he goes against the established intelligence agencies and against Secretary Rumsfeld, and as Karen says, you know, he was said to be very eager to get out of Iraq. And I think after a little of this battle that he has ahead of him, he may want to go back to Iraq.
DOBBS: Well, Secretary Rumsfeld is going to have to do far better than come up with rather simple homilies and aphorisms to deflect dealing with John Negroponte, I can assure you.
Let's turn to Social Security, speaking of sometimes oversimplified issues. Social Security reform still at the top of the president's agenda. An extraordinary statement, I found it at least, by Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, saying on one day that he supported privatization, private accounts, personal accounts, depending on your perspective, and the next day suggesting that we should be very careful about the some say trillions of dollars that would be necessary to implement it, admitting that privatization or personal accounts would not help in any way to reform Social Security. What's going on?
MORRISON: You see a contradiction there?
DOBBS: I see tons of them.
MORRISON: I think that's -- if you read Alan Greenspan's testimony, usually you will find some cross-currents. But I think the other thing that's going on here is that the president is moving right ahead with this, and dropped the idea today that he might even be willing to talk about lifting the caps on the part of your income that's subject to the wage tax. It shows his determination to get this, and I think he's going to go all the way and get it.
DOBBS: I think he's going to go all the way, I would agree with you. Roger, because you're in Boston, let's talk about Harvard. Larry Summers, the embattled president of Harvard, because he did something in a university that simply is not done, even if one says it apparently in what is to be the nation's best university -- he actually said things without being politically correct. The furor seems to be building. What in the world is going on out there?
SIMON: Well, they call them hot-button issues for a reason. You touch them and you get burned. He made some statements about the suitability or the acceptability of women to achieve high positions in math and sciences. Harvard admittedly does not have a good record in terms of granting Ph.Ds and granting full professorships to women in these hard science fields, and there's been a huge controversy. It's all people are talking about up here, from undergraduates to the faculty. The faculty will meet again next Tuesday.
DOBBS: And cluck away. My goodness. You know...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: If the nation's leading university has become a bastion of orthodoxy that does not permit intelligent discourse -- and I read the transcript of his remarks and the Q&A following it -- I have to tell you, Larry Summers is, amongst other things, a decent and bright person, and is being pillared on the altar of political correctness by really very shallow thinkers and people who should be aspiring to a higher standard of free expression, don't you think?
SIMON: And releasing the full transcript, which he just did last night, has helped him. A lot of people who were criticizing him by seeing a few comments taken out of context are now saying, if you read the whole 7,500...
DOBBS: Imagine that, asking an academic to be comprehensive.
SIMON: Well, I have a feeling he will weather this storm somehow.
DOBBS: One would certainly hope so, for the sake of Harvard and the students who seek their education there, and for the country where we need an example of free expression.
Karen Tumulty, I would like to have heard more of your expression tonight, and I apologize, but we're out of time. Roger Simon, as always, great to hear yours -- yours as well. Of course, limited as it was.
Thank you very much. Have a great weekend.
A reminder now, please vote in our poll tonight. The question is, "Do you believe the United States is adequately prepared, strategically and militarily, to contend with the rising Chinese threat to U.S. interests? Yes or no." Cast you vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up at the end of the broadcast.
Ahead here, a leading critic of the drug companies in this country says an FDA panel today was wrong to allow 3 potentially dangerous painkillers to be on the market. She's our guest next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As we reported to you, an FDA advisory panel recommended the COX-2 class of painkillers, including Vioxx and Celebrex, remain on the market despite a heightened risk of heart attacks. My guest tonight strongly disagrees with the assessment. Dr. Marcia Angell is the author of the new book, "The Truth About Drug Companies: How They Deceived Us, What To Do About It."
Also, the former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine joining us tonight from Boston. Dr. Angell, thanks for being here. Why do you think the FDA panel today made a mistake?
DR. MARCIA ANGELL, AUTHOR: Because the risks of these drugs far outweigh their benefits. It's not even close. And they could be commensurate.
If you look at the risks, there's approximately a doubling of the risk of heart attacks. And the benefits? Very few.
In fact, I question whether the drugs even should have been approved in the first place. There's never been any evidence that they're any better than over-the-counter painkillers...
DOBBS: Over the counter?
ANGELL: Yes, like ibuprofen, Advil, just any old over the counter painkiller. They're no better at relieving pain. There is some evidence that they cause less stomach irritation in people who are already at high risk of peptic ulcers, bleeding ulcers, but that's a very small fraction of the population.
And you could probably get the same amount of protection by taking the over-the-counter, say Prilosec, say, along with over the counter Advil. They don't meet any unmet need.
DOBBS: That's striking, troubling, concerning at the very least. You have written extensively in your new book on the relationship of the drug companies, to the scientists, to the practitioners in this country of medicine, do you see this as an example today of the proximity of the pharmaceutical industry to the regulators and to the scientists themselves?
ANGELL: I certainly do. The FDA is increasingly either unwilling or unable to do its job of ensuring that prescription drugs are safe. Since 1992, it's been on the payroll of the drug companies. The drug companies pay the FDA large user fees, what are called user fees, but they are earmarked mainly to approve drugs rapidly, and very little of it can be used to monitor safety. There's an imbalance at the FDA between approving drugs and ensuring that they're safe.
DOBBS: What is the solution here, Dr. Angell as we move just a bit farther? And that is, I think all of us want doctors to be -- to me should be the highest paid people in the country. The fact is there's all of these dislocations, though, in the cost of healthcare in this country: the relationship of the pharmaceutical companies to doctors, actually doing some of the research, doing much of the recommendations for drugs. How do we get there?
ANGELL: That's right.
DOBBS: I'm going to ask you this very simple, to answer it in about a minute.
(LAUGHTER) ANGELL: Well, the drug companies are enormously powerful and enormously wealthy, and they have used their wealth to co-opt every institution that might stand in their way: the U.S. Congress, the FDA. I've mentioned the user fees, but also these advisory committees of outside experts consist of people, many of whom are paid consultants for the drug companies. So the FDA is riddled with conflicts of interest. And doctors too, the medical profession is on the payroll of this industry big time.
DOBBS: Dr. Marcia Angell, we thank you. Please come back as we're going to obviously be following this story.
ANGELL: My pleasure to be with you.
DOBBS: And this issue for some time. Dr. Marcia Angell.
And the book is "The Truth About Drug Companies."
Still ahead here, the result of our poll tonight, we'll have a preview of what's ahead come Monday. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results now of our poll: 94 percent of you do not believe the United States is now adequately prepared, nor strategically and military prepared, to contend with the rising Chinese threat to U.S. interests.
We thank you for voting. We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here Monday. I'll be talking with the author of the new book "University Inc: The Corporate Corruption of American Higher Education." And our special report "Overmedicated Nation." why hospitals are not using new technology that could save a 100,000 lives each and every year. Please be with us.
For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. And good night from New York City. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
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Aired February 18, 2005 - 18:00 ET
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ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, February 18. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Good evening.
President Bush today declared he cannot rule out military action against Iran over its escalating nuclear weapons program. The White House accuses Iran of trying to develop those nuclear weapons.
The president's comments come just before he visits Europe next week for talks about Iran and other key international issues.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, of course President Bush today earlier signing key legislation, controversial legislation curbing class-action lawsuits. It was considered a clear legislative victory.
But the big test, of course, whether or not he is going to win overseas. He is preparing for a five-day trip to Europe, to Belgium, Germany and the Slovak Republic. It is really seen as a U.S. charm offensive to try to repair relations with European allies.
Now, one key moment to look at is when President Bush meets with French President Jacques Chirac. They'll talk about shared goals, as well as priorities.
But there are also clear differences between the United States and the European Union, their approach to convince Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions. Now, while the E.U. is offering diplomatic and economic rewards and incentives, the U.S. does not agree with this approach.
President Bush in an interview with Belgian television earlier today, however, tried to downplay those differences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's in our interest they not have a nuclear weapon, and so we want to support the European efforts, and I applaud the efforts to continue to send a clear message to the Iranians. And we want to -- you know, we will consult like we have been to make sure that we fully understand where we stand to achieve that goal. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, of course, another moment to look at is when Bush meets with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
We heard from Putin today, who says he does not believe that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon. As a matter of fact he says Russia will continue to support its nuclear energy program.
This is really a point of contention between the United States and Russia, as well as Russia's plan to sell missiles to Syria and as well as what's seen as kind of a backslide from democratic reforms.
Today, President Bush also talking about that in an interview with Slovak state TV, saying, "I have a good relationship with President Putin, and the reason that's important is because when we give him a chance to say in private, ask him why he's been making some of the decisions he's been making. I mean, he's done some things that has concerned people."
Lou, that will be a big task, whether or not the president will say something publicly. I spoke with one European Union official, a top official, who says he doesn't expect anything substantive in terms of a change in U.S. policy, but he certainly hopes that there will be greater trust between the United States and its European allies -- Lou.
DOBBS: And Suzanne, as you're reporting, the trip itself a departure from -- from recent past experience. Thank you, Suzanne Malveaux.
The Bush administration tonight is also focusing on the rising military threat from China. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and CIA director Porter Goss this week gave testimony before Congress about the rapid modernization of Chinese -- China's military.
Tomorrow, the United States and Japan are expected to jointly declare for the first time ever that security in the Taiwan Strait is a common strategic objective.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China's defense budget has been increasing at a double-digit rate for the last decade. The communist country has been quietly buying submarines from Russia, along with aircraft and antimissile batteries.
And now China wants to expand even faster. It's asking the European Union to lift an arms embargo that has been in place since the crackdown in Tiananmen Square in 1989.
DAN BLUMENTHAL, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: China has been investing very heavily in ballistic missiles that they deploy across the strait as a tool of coercion and intimidation. They have some 500 to 600 missiles pointed at Taiwan.
SYLVESTER: CIA Director Porter Goss warned lawmakers of China's emerging threat. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged the Pentagon is keeping an eye on China, even as the Defense Department is being criticized for scaling back naval spending in the 2006 budget.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The People's Republic of China is a country that we hope and pray enters the civilized world in an orderly way without the grinding of gears.
SYLVESTER: U.S./China relations are being tested over Taiwan, which China considers to be a renegade province. Japan, for the first time is pledging to protect the safety of Taiwan along with the United States. If a war over Taiwan were to break out, it could easily escalate to a global conflict.
KENNETH LIEBERTHAL, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: That would be a war, frankly, whose repercussions would be felt for a generation. And there would be no winners, regardless of who declared victory.
SYLVESTER: The odds of a full war breaking out are slim. What's more likely is that China could replace the United States as the dominant military power in the region.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: China has also raised concerns this week because of an announcement that the country wants to expand its nuclear energy program and is interested in buying uranium from overseas, specifically from Australia. And China claims the uranium would only be used for peaceful purposes -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
China today has well blasted the U.S. warnings about its rising military buildup. The Chinese foreign ministry declared that the comments by the U.S. government are, quote, "an irresponsible act."
The ministry said that the United States is interfering in China's internal affairs, as well, and sending false signals to what it called the advocates of Taiwanese independence.
Later in the broadcast, I'll be talking about these issues and more with our former ambassador to China, James Lily, about the astonishing scale and speed of the Chinese military buildup and the United States' response, whether tepid or adequate to the challenge.
In Iraq, the worst violence since the Iraqi elections at the end of last month. Four American soldiers have been killed in combat since Wednesday. Three of those soldiers were killed in the Mosul area in northern Iraq, the other soldier killed in southern Iraq. Insurgents also killed more than two-dozen Iraqis today in a series of attacks against mosques.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DOBBS (voice-over): Insurgents today launched another wave of attacks coinciding with the Shiite holy day of Ashurah. In the deadliest attack of the day, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Shiite mosque in southwest Baghdad. Fifteen people were killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see many legs and hands, explosive. This is a terrible thing.
DOBBS: Soon after, an explosion rocked a second mosque in southwestern Baghdad. Two people were killed.
Another Iraqi was killed in a separate rocket attack on a coffee shop in northwest Baghdad. Police say the intended target was a nearby mosque.
These attacks come as the newly elected Shiite majority prepares to observe Ashurah, the holiest day of the year. The Iraqi government has been expecting sectarian violence. Last year, insurgents killed more than 180 Ashurah worshipers in Baghdad and Karbala.
MOWAFFAK AL-RUBAIE, IRAQI NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The real intention behind all that is to try to draw a rift, to dig a wedge between the Shiite and Sunnis in this country. And this is actually going to be a fruitless effort on the behalf of the terrorists.
DOBBS: The security adviser says al Qaeda's leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, is behind these attacks.
In another incident in southern Iraq today, a U.S. soldier was killed by a roadside bomb.
U.S. officials hope the Iraqi security forces will soon be able to protect their own citizens.
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Regrettably, there are acts of violence in Iraq every day, but hopefully with the election of a new government and the efforts that are being made to train and equip and motivate the Iraqi armed forces, that situation will improve over time.
DOBBS: And for many Iraqis, that time can't come too soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Meanwhile, 150,000 of our troops remain in Iraq protecting Iraqis from insurgents and the radical Islamist terrorists.
Still ahead here, a dramatic ruling today by a top drug panel about three painkillers, three drugs that can seriously raise the risk of heart problems.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A dramatic ruling today on three popular painkillers taken by millions of Americans. Advisers to the Food and Drug Administration today ruled that Celebrex, Bextra, and Vioxx should be available to anyone who needs them, even though the drugs do significantly raise the risk of heart problems.
Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was close, to say the least. Seventeen members of this FDA Advisory Committee voted in support of Vioxx going back on the market if Merck chooses to do so. Fifteen members voted no. That leads the way for Merck to try to put its popular prescription painkiller back on the shelves after pulling it off the shelves last September.
DR. PETER KIM, MERCK RESEARCH LABS: We've heard numerous reports -- and you've heard a few today -- from patients, including patients with chronic debilitating pain, that Vioxx was the only drug that relieved that pain.
COHEN: In a statement today, Merck said, "Merck has appreciated the opportunity to present data at this advisory committee meeting. We look forward to discussions with the FDA."
At Friday's meeting, there were recounts, confusion about who voted which way, prompting the committee chairman to say...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's Katherine Harris now that we need her?
DR. LEE SIMON, PFIZER CLINICAL ADVISER: I don't believe I've ever seen a committee function like this.
COHEN: Pfizer makes Celebrex and Bextra and stands to lose if Vioxx goes back on the market. All three drugs are COX-2 inhibitors, and the FDA committee was very clear that this class of drugs has serious safety concerns.
Panel members agreed unanimously that the painkillers increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes. The committee recommended that the drugs carry so-called black-box warnings, the toughest warnings possible, and that ads to consumers should not be allowed.
But, in the end, despite these concerns, the FDA advisers decided that Americans in pain should be allowed to take these medicines.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Vioxx went on the market in 1999. In 2003, worldwide sales were $2.5 billion -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elizabeth, this was a remarkably close vote, almost a political decision on what should be a medical decision. What in the world is going on here?
COHEN: Well, I think the FDA would argue with that. I mean, these were actual doctors...
DOBBS: I know they would. I don't doubt that. COHEN: I mean, these were actual doctors, actual experts who were making this decision.
Why it was so close goes to this: There were people who testified at these meetings and said I can't get out of bed without this drug, this drug helps me function, helps me get through the day, and then you had other experts, like FDA whistle-blower Dr. David Graham, saying, look, these drugs pose some very serious cardiovascular concerns -- strokes, heart attacks.
And, basically, what this advisory committee decided was, look, people can take them, but they need to know what the risks are. The FDA is sort of putting the decision in the hands of doctors and patients and saying, look, you can take them, but look at what the risks are.
DOBBS: And they will have black-box warnings, the strongest warnings on them?
COHEN: That's what this advisory committee is recommending, and those are just what they sound like. It's a black box with writing in it so that a doctor sees that first off, and some people say the black-box warnings actually make doctors kind of hesitant to prescribe a drug because it has this very strong warning, but...
DOBBS: One would certainly hope so.
Elizabeth, thank you.
Elizabeth Cohen.
Later here, I'll be talking with woman who strongly disagrees with today's ruling by the FDA panel. She is Dr. Marcia Angell. She is the author of "The Truth About Drug Companies." She says the risk associated with these painkillers far outweigh the benefits.
Republicans and Democrats across the country are already planning for 2008, the presidential election. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has only been in her new Cabinet post a few weeks, but supporters of Secretary Rice are already mapping out her campaign to be president.
Ed Henry reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the world stage, she's Rice the rock star.
GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): Just, by the way, I've obviously said an open and honest congratulations on the new job.
HENRY: So, back here at home, how does President Rice sound? Music to the ears of some of the thousands of activists gathered for CPAC, the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, where there was a bit of a buzz about Condoleezza Rice.
CRYSTAL DUEKER, AMERICANSFORRICE.COM: And there were about 30 young women who came up to me basically as a group and wanting to get the campaign buttons, they wanted to get the bumper stickers.
HENRY: Crystal Dueker is part of a new draft Condi movement, americansforrice.com. On Friday, the group started running a radio ad in the critical state of Iowa, with plans to move on to New Hampshire next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... dedicated to election Dr. Condoleezza Rice president in 2008.
HENRY: They even have a catchy new campaign song.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Condoleezza will lead us, brother / Into a brave, new world / Condoleezza will lead all good people...
HENRY: A new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll finds that 50 percent of Americans have a very or somewhat positive view of Secretary Rice; 27 percent have a very or somewhat negative view. Political insiders are already dreaming about a potential Rice match-up with Senator Hillary Clinton.
A December NBC poll suggests Rice may have an edge. Forty-five percent of Americans have a very or somewhat positive view of the senator; 40 percent felt very or somewhat negative. Six secretaries of state have gone on to become president, a fact that hasn't been lost on Rice fans.
DUEKER: I basically look at her charm and her intelligence, and, whether she was Asian or Caucasian, I would still have the same admiration for her.
HENRY (on camera): A second draft Condi movement has popped up at rice2008.com, where you can even buy a bobblehead, but her legion of fans may be disappointed to learn that at least so far Secretary Rice says she has no plans to run.
Ed Henry, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Of course, it's still early yet by any measure.
A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll tonight shows a difference of opinion strikingly between blacks and whites in this country about the subject of Condoleezza Rice. Our poll shows 61 percent of whites have a favorable opinion of our new secretary of state, while 24 percent have an unfavorable opinion. Forty-four percent of blacks have a favorable opinion, while 37 percent say they have an unfavorable opinion.
Turning to "Broken Borders," the Iowa Supreme Court tonight is taking a firm stand against illegal aliens. The state's high court ruled today that illegal aliens do not have the right to obtain a U.S. driver's license. The court said, "We conclude the state's licensing scheme is rationally related to the legitimate state interest of not allowing its governmental machinery to be a facilitator for the concealment of illegal aliens." Forty- nine other states may take note.
In Iowa, applicants for a driver's license are required to show identification and a valid Social Security card. The illegal aliens' attorney argued that the requirement violates the illegal aliens' rights under the U.S. constitution. That's the U.S. Constitution written to protect the rights of U.S. citizens, not the rights of illegal aliens.
We believe the Iowa Supreme Court should be congratulated for recognizing the critical distinction.
Earlier this week, I was joined by Congressman George Miller. The congressman was calling for an investigation into Wal-Mart's secret settlement with the U.S. Labor Department. Congressman Miller said that settlement was a sweetheart deal for the nation's largest employer.
Tonight, we can report to you the inspector general of the Labor Department has announced plans to review the circumstances surrounding that agreement that Congressman Miller calls a sweetheart deal. The agreement gave Wal-Mart two weeks' notice to correct any labor complaints by employees before the Labor Department investigated or would take action.
Next here, "Exporting America"'s future. High school graduates face fewer and fewer career choices because American jobs are being exported to cheap foreign markets.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This week, we have been reporting on the issues that amount to a "Culture in Decline" in this country in the minds of many. Tonight, we take a look at the town of Canton, Ohio. In Canton, outsourcing is affecting the next generation of workers and citizens, even before they graduate from high school. But one school in Canton is working and trying very hard to keep its students ahead of a rapidly outsourced economy.
Kitty Pilgrim has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For generations, Canton South High School students not going on to college could count on a career at a local manufacturing facility, but now those options are disappearing. Factories are shuttered. The town is reeling from economic loss.
Students are desperately trying to find fields where job creation is good. Trista Medley, a senior, is starting nursing school next year. The local steel mill where her father works is on the verge of moving elsewhere.
TRISTA MEDLEY, CANTON SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: My dad works at Timken's, and they're thinking every closing down his plant and sending it to Mexico. So it's uncertain whether he'll have a job next year.
PILGRIM: Christie Lightfritz saw her mother's job disappear to Mexico. For Christie, the lesson was clear.
CHRISTIE LIGHTFRITZ, CANTON SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN: If you don't go to college and you just want to get a job, You know, in your neighborhood and your town that's high-paying, you want to work in a factory, and, whenever we get older, there's not going to be any of those left.
PILGRIM: Canton South is doing the best it can with special vocational training. They offer restaurant management courses and auto maintenance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have these wires backwards.
PILGRIM: But even in those service industries, career counselors are realistic.
TOM BRATTEN, CAREER & TECHNOLOGY DIRECTOR, CANTON SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL: We still teach your basics, manufacturing jobs, but we, like I said, have stepped up the technology to try to keep up with the times.
PILGRIM: One thing is clear: This generation of Canton South students will enter a world completely different than the one their parents faced.
THERESA PURSES, SUPERINTENDENT, CANTON LOCAL SCHOOLS: All of our students have to look at training beyond high school. A diploma is not going to be enough for most of our kids, and that's one of the things that's really changed. Parents right now are finding out that the job they counted on and the company they were loyal to doesn't exist anymore.
PILGRIM: Even for vocational training, the school is pushing for every student to try for financial aid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now the school actually mentors the students, starting as early as the 7th grade, to talk about realistic career options. It's a necessary step because, in many cases, these students will be the first in their families to continue past high school.
And, Lou, every high school kid in this country takes at least one vocational training course, so funding for these things is very, very important.
DOBBS: And the fact is that there's no clear path here for any of these kids who do not choose to go on to get an advanced education because of outsourcing, because of the diminishment of the manufacturing base.
PILGRIM: They're really at a loss on what to do, and they're trying to find ways to further their education. Some just don't have the money for college.
DOBBS: Yes. And I think, as we say, the students are lost, and, of course, our hearts go out to them, and it's one of the reasons we report here extensively on these issues, both the economic and political issues that are contributing to this. The fact is the teachers don't know, the administrators don't know, and, too often, the politicians and the officeholders have no clue.
PILGRIM: It's very hard for these communities to come up with creative solutions when there's no industry right there.
DOBBS: Kitty Pilgrim.
Thank you very much.
Next, a leading medical expert. She warns that painkillers like Vioxx are simply too risky to be going back on the market, as the FDA has permitted.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a moment, the growing military threat from China and whether the United States has created a strategy in response. We'll be joined by our former ambassador to China to discuss those issues.
But, first, these important stories this evening.
Catholic bishops across the country now say they've received more than 1,000 new claims of sex abuse. The allegations are directed at more than 750 priests. A church official says half of those have been accused before. The Catholic Church has paid out more than $800 million so far in settlement of abuse claims.
Canada may cut exports of prescription drugs to the United States. That is one option the Canadian government is now considering as a way to keep its own prices for drugs low. The move could virtually shut down the country's billion-dollar mail-order drug market to this country.
And NASA today set May 15 as the target date for the next launch of the space shuttle. The shuttle Discovery will be the first to leave the pad, followed by Atlantis two months later. The shuttle fleet has been grounded since the Columbia disaster just over two years ago.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and CIA Director Porter Goss this week testified before Congress about the escalating military threat from China. By some estimates, China will have more warships than the United States in just a decade. The Chinese military buildup coincides with China's explosive economic expansion. China's economy could be larger than our own within a quarter-century.
Joining me now is James Lilley, a former U.S. ambassador to China, and now a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
Ambassador, good to have you with us.
JAMES LILLEY, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: China as you and I have discussed before has not always been at the forefront of policymakers' planning nor strategy. Do you think that the comments by, amongst others, Porter Goss, the CIA director, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, means that that's changing?
LILLEY: No. But I think it's get more outspoken, more realistic. And there are certain major trends here. I don't think you could see these comments in isolation.
First of all, Porter Goss made a very worst-case discussion of the Chinese military build-up. He left out the economic dimension, which I wish he had followed. You haven't seen the Chinese react -- they were in to my office this morning asking about this new Japanese- American initiative.
There is a huge shift going on. Russians are having maneuvers with both the Chinese and for the first time with the Japanese. This kind of shifting, our moving into Southeast Asia and working them militarily and politically and militarily with facilities in Singapore, alliance with Thailand, Philippines, a very strong alliance with Australia. And also the United States position in the Taiwan Strait, where we have with Japan come out with the statement which probably rules out any activity on the seas for a long time to come. The power of the United States and Japan on the seas is overwhelming.
DOBBS: Overwhelming, yet the analysis estimates suggest that the Chinese Navy could exceed that of at least in terms of numbers of vessels, that of of the United States within a decade.
LILLEY: The Navy isn't done by numbers, Lou. It's the way you train people. Submarines, aircraft carriers, destroyers, these people have to be trained. The Chinese have never really had an action against a powerful force on the seas. The last time was in the early Ming dynasty in 1700.
They do not do well on the seas. They are getting submarines, hilo-class diesels from Russia. They have got these DF-31 intermediate-range ballistic missiles, a couple of hundred against our thousands of them.
They have got these multiple warhead mobile missiles with solid fuel, but they can't begin to match our outlay. So, although they're building up and Rumsfeld is right, we have to watch this thing very carefully, the dynamism is in the economic relationship between Taiwan and China as I mentioned before. This makes war very unattractive.
DOBBS: It makes war unattractive, but people forget that in World War II, the relationship to Germany and Japan was also significant in terms of economic trade between the United States, even England at the time. It is particularly the level of trade which is now one-way, to look at that as somehow separated, as it is in the minds of most policymakers, politics and economics -- without U.S. policy coming together with both influence in the relationship, doesn't it strike you a bit limiting?
LILLEY: I think what one sees in this arrangement -- you can always make the case on economics not working. It's Marxist determinism, but in World War I, it happened and they fault. World War II, as you mentioned, yes. But right now the interdependence between China and Taiwan for Chinese growth that leads to their own stability and prosperity is linked to Taiwan imports.
Taiwan probably has equity in 70 percent of the Chinese information technology industry, just as an example. It's a very strong link into China. And to begin to tamper with this, with blockades, embargoes, missile shots, runs very serious risk, especially when you run the risk of really losing very, very badly. So the Chinese are very calculating, very intelligent. Those missiles on Fukien Coast are intimidation.
DOBBS: Intimidation, but the fact is that the Chinese at this point have been nothing less than bullying, as you know, constantly warning this administration and Taiwan that even the whiff of independence is enough to invite response. The fact that Japan and the United States would say that the security of Taiwan is a common strategic interest certainly has to give the Chinese pause, does it not, ambassador?
LILLEY: Oh, yes, I think it does. And they were in my office this morning asking me what this was all about. But I do think that in this Chinese case, there is an awful lot of gong-banging in the Taiwan Strait. It's a war of words.
I can tell you that very few people get killed in the Taiwan Strait. The last time was 1958, when the Chinese Migs were shot out of the air by F-86's from Taiwan with sidewinder missiles. You don't fight wars in the Taiwan Strait since the '50s. It's a lot of push, parry, gong-banging, thrust, this sort of thing.
I take it seriously, but you can't be overwhelmed about it.
DOBBS: Ambassador, we thank you for thank you for being with us. Ambassador James Lilley.
LILLEY: Thank you.
DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question, "Do you believe the United States is adequately prepared, strategically and militarily, to contend with the rising Chinese threat to U.S. interests? Yes or no." Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later here in the broadcast.
Now, our weekly salute to the men and women, the heroes who defend this country. Tonight, the story of Marine Sergeant Scott Montoya who has been awarded the Navy's sect highest honor, the Navy Cross. Casey Wian has his story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's 5:30 A.M., and Orange County sheriff deputy Scott Montoya is finishing the 12-hour patrol shift.
SCOTT MONTOYA: Today's my last day of training so -- thank you for all your time and patients.
WIAN: It's taken Montoya 15 years to win promotion to patrolman because of his other job, a Marine Corps sniper.
MONTOYA: I joined the Marine Corps for the Spree de corps (ph) What they call it in Orange County Sheriff's Academy. They would walk up to each other and kind of look at each other and kind of see the bad haircut and look at each other like, hey, Marine, you a Marine? Immediately they would be best friends.
WIAN: At dawn, Montoya wears a different hat.
MONTOYA: I come out here every day to look at him. It's kind of like my therapy.
WIAN: His easy calm with his horses reveals a different side of a man who's a martial arts expert and war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Sergeant Scott C. Montoya.
WIAN: On April 8, 2003, the Marines were in a street fight outside Baghdad. Under a barrage of gunfire, Montoya rescued an injured Iraqi civilian, then returned to the middle of the street 5 times to rescue wounded Marines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire and utmost devotion to duty, Sergeant Montoya reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.
WIAN: Montoya is humble.
MONTOYA: The scripture in the Bible says no greater love hath no man than a man who lays down his life for his friends. And I believe that in my heart. Is that I would have done it. I never met the Marine before that day, and I haven't seen him since that day. All those Marines helped out. I never even shooken their hands again. But you know what, I would do it all again. I would do it all again.
WIAN: MONTOYA plans to remain in the Marine Corps and move on to a leadership role in the sheriff's department. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Outstanding. And we wish Sergeant Montoya the very best of luck.
Many have written in to ask about another remarkable hero that we featured here this week, Captain David Rozelle was our guest here. Captain Rozelle lost his foot when his Humvee was blown up by a landmine in Iraq. He becomes the first amputee to qualify for full duty. And he is at the beginning of next month returning to Iraq.
Now, after many months of intense rehabilitation and being certified fit for duty, he will be on active duty in Iraq, leading his men and women into combat.
Captain Rozelle shares his incredible story in his new book. The book is entitled "Back in Action: An American Soldier's Story of Courage, Faith and Fortitude." Captain Rozelle, exemplary in all respects, those qualities just among the few that he has demonstrated through his life.
And we'd like to extent or congratulations tonight. We focus on a lot of things that don't work well in this country, and a lot of people, particularly, in public office whose efforts are not always to the highest standards.
But we want to complement and congratulate Senator Pat Roberts of Kansas. He's the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He's fought for 11 marines mistakenly awarded the Purple Heart. Senator Roberts, himself a Marine, prompted an apology to the Commandant of the Marine Corps to one Kansas marine who was mistakenly awarded the medal. Senator Roberts also prompted a resolution from Kansas legislators that the resolution would ask Congress to direct the Marine Corps to allow that Kansas Marine to keep that medal.
Tonight's thought is on heroes, "A country grows in history not only because of the heroism of its troops on the field of battle, it grows also when it turns to justice and to right for the conservation of interests."
Still ahead here, 3 of the country's top journalists. We'll be talking politics, economics, and, yes, the axis of evil. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now are three of the country's top journalists -- from Boston tonight, Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report." From Washington, D.C., Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine. And joining me here in New York City, Mark Morrison, "Businessweek."
Karen, let me turn to you first and begin with this decision today, the FDA panel recommending by a very close vote that these COX- 2 medication be permitted into the market. Your reaction.
KAREN TUMULTY, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, of course that controversy is going to continue, and of course that is the question of whether drug companies themselves have too much influence in the process of deciding what is and isn't a safe drug. But I think in the end, what the advisory board was swayed by was the testimony by real people coming up and saying, basically, you know, I can't get out of bed in the morning without these drugs.
MARK MORRISON, BUSINESSWEEK: The political pressure was very intense on them, obviously, but this was very surprising, and a very important decision, it seems to me. Merck stock went up more than 10 percent today, because now the expectation is that Vioxx will be back on the market, and this also has some ramifications for all the legal activities against the drug companies that seems to validate the idea that it's a reasonable thing to have these drugs on the market.
The other interesting thing is the advertising restrictions on these drugs, which is a new kind of thing, as far as I know, for the FDA to hold back on some of the advertising that was pushing it out there.
DOBBS: The drug companies spending far more on advertising than they are are on R&D, as you know, and the fact that they would put these black-box warnings on this medicine should have a chilling effect, but again, we have to remember, this is only a recommendation by an FDA panel, not the final decision.
A recommendation from the president of the United States, Roger Simon, that John Negroponte be the first director of national intelligence. He seems eminently qualified. Both Democrats and Republicans I've talked with are fully supportive, Roger. Have you heard a naysayer?
ROGER SIMON, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: Well, the families of the 9/11 victims issued a statement saying they wanted someone -- they had wanted someone with more intelligence experience, but I think it's actually a good thing he's not an intelligence officer. All of our intelligence geniuses missed 25 to 30 warnings that the 9/11 attacks were going to take place. What we need in that job is a manager, a guy who can be tough, and a guy who can get the 15 intelligence agencies and the Pentagon to start talking to each other, and to safeguard the United States.
This could be a very thankless job. It has a lot of responsibility, but a lot of the authority has been stripped away.
DOBBS: Well, amongst the people who won't be thanking him would be, I would assume, Porter Goss, who (UNINTELLIGIBLE) his appointment is effectively demoted, Karen. The impact there?
TUMULTY: Well, it's not only Porter Goss. One of the big interesting relationships to watch is going to be his relationship with Don Rumsfeld. The fact is that intelligence in this country, as we have learned from the 9/11 Commission, has been a series -- it has been a combination of fiefdoms. And as Roger says, it is less -- it is going to be less the question of Negroponte's expertise than the actual influence he has. The president, for instance, said that he will be -- he will be the person who gives him the daily briefing, but as we saw with Tom Ridge at the Department of Homeland Security, another department that was newly created in a coordinating role, it sometimes doesn't work out in practice as it's supposed to in principle. DOBBS: I think we also need to focus, when we talk about John Negroponte, I've heard a number of people refer to him as a diplomat. He's been far more than that, serving in the foreign service, from Vietnam, extensively over four decades, a dedicated public servant and a very, very bright one. Some talent. So it is going to be interesting to see how this proceeds.
MORRISON: He does have all the talent you're talking about. It is going to be a real test of it, though, as he goes against the established intelligence agencies and against Secretary Rumsfeld, and as Karen says, you know, he was said to be very eager to get out of Iraq. And I think after a little of this battle that he has ahead of him, he may want to go back to Iraq.
DOBBS: Well, Secretary Rumsfeld is going to have to do far better than come up with rather simple homilies and aphorisms to deflect dealing with John Negroponte, I can assure you.
Let's turn to Social Security, speaking of sometimes oversimplified issues. Social Security reform still at the top of the president's agenda. An extraordinary statement, I found it at least, by Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, saying on one day that he supported privatization, private accounts, personal accounts, depending on your perspective, and the next day suggesting that we should be very careful about the some say trillions of dollars that would be necessary to implement it, admitting that privatization or personal accounts would not help in any way to reform Social Security. What's going on?
MORRISON: You see a contradiction there?
DOBBS: I see tons of them.
MORRISON: I think that's -- if you read Alan Greenspan's testimony, usually you will find some cross-currents. But I think the other thing that's going on here is that the president is moving right ahead with this, and dropped the idea today that he might even be willing to talk about lifting the caps on the part of your income that's subject to the wage tax. It shows his determination to get this, and I think he's going to go all the way and get it.
DOBBS: I think he's going to go all the way, I would agree with you. Roger, because you're in Boston, let's talk about Harvard. Larry Summers, the embattled president of Harvard, because he did something in a university that simply is not done, even if one says it apparently in what is to be the nation's best university -- he actually said things without being politically correct. The furor seems to be building. What in the world is going on out there?
SIMON: Well, they call them hot-button issues for a reason. You touch them and you get burned. He made some statements about the suitability or the acceptability of women to achieve high positions in math and sciences. Harvard admittedly does not have a good record in terms of granting Ph.Ds and granting full professorships to women in these hard science fields, and there's been a huge controversy. It's all people are talking about up here, from undergraduates to the faculty. The faculty will meet again next Tuesday.
DOBBS: And cluck away. My goodness. You know...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: If the nation's leading university has become a bastion of orthodoxy that does not permit intelligent discourse -- and I read the transcript of his remarks and the Q&A following it -- I have to tell you, Larry Summers is, amongst other things, a decent and bright person, and is being pillared on the altar of political correctness by really very shallow thinkers and people who should be aspiring to a higher standard of free expression, don't you think?
SIMON: And releasing the full transcript, which he just did last night, has helped him. A lot of people who were criticizing him by seeing a few comments taken out of context are now saying, if you read the whole 7,500...
DOBBS: Imagine that, asking an academic to be comprehensive.
SIMON: Well, I have a feeling he will weather this storm somehow.
DOBBS: One would certainly hope so, for the sake of Harvard and the students who seek their education there, and for the country where we need an example of free expression.
Karen Tumulty, I would like to have heard more of your expression tonight, and I apologize, but we're out of time. Roger Simon, as always, great to hear yours -- yours as well. Of course, limited as it was.
Thank you very much. Have a great weekend.
A reminder now, please vote in our poll tonight. The question is, "Do you believe the United States is adequately prepared, strategically and militarily, to contend with the rising Chinese threat to U.S. interests? Yes or no." Cast you vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up at the end of the broadcast.
Ahead here, a leading critic of the drug companies in this country says an FDA panel today was wrong to allow 3 potentially dangerous painkillers to be on the market. She's our guest next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As we reported to you, an FDA advisory panel recommended the COX-2 class of painkillers, including Vioxx and Celebrex, remain on the market despite a heightened risk of heart attacks. My guest tonight strongly disagrees with the assessment. Dr. Marcia Angell is the author of the new book, "The Truth About Drug Companies: How They Deceived Us, What To Do About It."
Also, the former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine joining us tonight from Boston. Dr. Angell, thanks for being here. Why do you think the FDA panel today made a mistake?
DR. MARCIA ANGELL, AUTHOR: Because the risks of these drugs far outweigh their benefits. It's not even close. And they could be commensurate.
If you look at the risks, there's approximately a doubling of the risk of heart attacks. And the benefits? Very few.
In fact, I question whether the drugs even should have been approved in the first place. There's never been any evidence that they're any better than over-the-counter painkillers...
DOBBS: Over the counter?
ANGELL: Yes, like ibuprofen, Advil, just any old over the counter painkiller. They're no better at relieving pain. There is some evidence that they cause less stomach irritation in people who are already at high risk of peptic ulcers, bleeding ulcers, but that's a very small fraction of the population.
And you could probably get the same amount of protection by taking the over-the-counter, say Prilosec, say, along with over the counter Advil. They don't meet any unmet need.
DOBBS: That's striking, troubling, concerning at the very least. You have written extensively in your new book on the relationship of the drug companies, to the scientists, to the practitioners in this country of medicine, do you see this as an example today of the proximity of the pharmaceutical industry to the regulators and to the scientists themselves?
ANGELL: I certainly do. The FDA is increasingly either unwilling or unable to do its job of ensuring that prescription drugs are safe. Since 1992, it's been on the payroll of the drug companies. The drug companies pay the FDA large user fees, what are called user fees, but they are earmarked mainly to approve drugs rapidly, and very little of it can be used to monitor safety. There's an imbalance at the FDA between approving drugs and ensuring that they're safe.
DOBBS: What is the solution here, Dr. Angell as we move just a bit farther? And that is, I think all of us want doctors to be -- to me should be the highest paid people in the country. The fact is there's all of these dislocations, though, in the cost of healthcare in this country: the relationship of the pharmaceutical companies to doctors, actually doing some of the research, doing much of the recommendations for drugs. How do we get there?
ANGELL: That's right.
DOBBS: I'm going to ask you this very simple, to answer it in about a minute.
(LAUGHTER) ANGELL: Well, the drug companies are enormously powerful and enormously wealthy, and they have used their wealth to co-opt every institution that might stand in their way: the U.S. Congress, the FDA. I've mentioned the user fees, but also these advisory committees of outside experts consist of people, many of whom are paid consultants for the drug companies. So the FDA is riddled with conflicts of interest. And doctors too, the medical profession is on the payroll of this industry big time.
DOBBS: Dr. Marcia Angell, we thank you. Please come back as we're going to obviously be following this story.
ANGELL: My pleasure to be with you.
DOBBS: And this issue for some time. Dr. Marcia Angell.
And the book is "The Truth About Drug Companies."
Still ahead here, the result of our poll tonight, we'll have a preview of what's ahead come Monday. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results now of our poll: 94 percent of you do not believe the United States is now adequately prepared, nor strategically and military prepared, to contend with the rising Chinese threat to U.S. interests.
We thank you for voting. We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here Monday. I'll be talking with the author of the new book "University Inc: The Corporate Corruption of American Higher Education." And our special report "Overmedicated Nation." why hospitals are not using new technology that could save a 100,000 lives each and every year. Please be with us.
For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. And good night from New York City. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
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