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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Terror Indictment; Tough Questions Regarding John Bolton; Donald Rumsfeld Visits Iraq
Aired April 12, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Well, tonight we're going to be reporting on a major terror indictment, an alleged plot to use weapons of mass destruction. And the target, some of this country's most important financial institutions.
Also tonight, exporting your security, overseas outsourcing and fraud. Customers of a big U.S. bank cheated out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And "Broken Borders." The Minutemen claim a major success against illegal aliens, but the Border Patrol says the impact has been negligible. We'll have a special report from Arizona.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate and opinion, tonight. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening. Federal prosecutors today unsealed an indictment against three men accused of plotting to use weapons of mass destruction. Now, the men are charged with carrying out scouting missions for a possible terrorist attack against the United States. Prosecutors say there was a terrorist conspiracy to attack financial targets recently as August last year.
Justice correspondent Kelli Arena has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The surveillance of financial buildings, including the Citigroup Center in New York City, was startling in its detail. Discovered last summer in Pakistan and Britain, government officials say it is the surest sign of al Qaeda's determination to again strike the United States. Now the men who allegedly came to the United States to conduct that surveillance have been indicted.
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: All of us know that terrorists looking to harm Americans were at work for a very long period of time conducting sophisticated surveillance. And they are very, very patient.
ARENA: The three men are already in custody in Britain facing terror-related charges there. One of them, Dhiran Barot, also known as Issa al-Hindi, is described as a senior al Qaeda operative who helped train terrorists and reported directly to September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Issa al-Hindi was a major player and major al Qaeda operative. So he was, in fact, here in New York City doing that sort of surveillance. So it's a very significant case.
ARENA: Al-Hindi and two of his associates are charged with conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction against the United States -- namely, bombs -- and with conspiring to and providing material support to terrorists.
The government says the men were scoping out targets in New York, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C. in 2000 and 2001. But prosecutors say the conspiracy continued way past then.
COMEY: This conspiracy was alive and kicking up till August of 2004.
ARENA: Those surveillance reports the suspects allegedly prepared were so thorough the government initially raised the terror alert last year for the financial sectors.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: They had looked for structural weaknesses. They made recommendations about where you would place a bomb to bring the building down. They made efforts to understand what the casualty level would be. For example, they counted the number of people passing in front of the building every day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: The prosecution of those men in Britain is in its early stages. And officials say when that's over, then the U.S. plans on seeking extradition -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Kelli Arena.
Well, President Bush's nominee to be director of national intelligence today promised major changes in our intelligence community. John Negroponte told his Senate confirmation hearing that he will introduce reforms to prevent any more intelligence blunders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, NOMINEE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: The law does give me substantial authority. And even in areas where there might be ambiguities, I think I have been encouraged by many of the people that I've consulted with during these past two weeks to push the envelope and use what authorities I believe I have to the utmost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Well, later in the broadcast, I'll be talking with the chairman and vice chairman of that hearing, Senator Pat Roberts and Senator Jay Rockefeller.
Elsewhere on Capitol Hill, there was new criticism today of John Bolton, President Bush's nominee to be our United Nations ambassador. A former State Department official declared Bolton is, quote, "a serial abuser of junior staff." At issue, is whether Bolton tries to intimidate people who disagree with his point of view.
Andrea Koppel reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A self-described loyal Republican, conservative to the core, Carl Ford made clear he was a reluctant witness. But Ford said he felt compelled to testify that John Bolton was a "serial abuser who bullied subordinates."
CARL FORD, FMR. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: He's a quintessential kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy. There are a lot of them around. I'm sure you've met them.
KOPPEL: Ford is the former chief of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, where he supervised an analyst who butted heads with Bolton in 2002 over intelligence on Castro's Cuba. Democrats hoped Ford would give credence to allegations Bolton tried to pressure the analyst to change his findings and when the analysts refused looked to Ford to fire him. A charge Bolton denies.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: I want to just be clear that from your testimony today you are quite certain that Mr. Bolton actively sought to have this gentleman removed from his position?
FORD: Yes.
OBAMA: You don't know whether he said...
FORD: I only know what I...
OBAMA: ... fire that guy, get rid of that guy. You know, this is unacceptable. You don't know exactly what the phraseology was, but...
FORD: I got the message.
OBAMA: ... you got the message.
KOPPEL: Republicans countered this was only one heated exchange and not a pattern of troubling behavior.
SEN. MEL MARTINEZ (R), FLORIDA: But you really cannot in good faith under oath suggest that you have the ability to tell this committee that this now represents a broader character flaw in Mr. Bolton's part, can you?
FORD: You're absolutely correct.
KOPPEL: Democrats argued, with U.S. credibility at the United Nations already severely damaged over misleading U.S. intelligence on Iraq's WMD, questions about Bolton's alleged manipulation of intelligence would further damage U.S. interests.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: This is the very man who may have to take the case to the world on Korea and on Iran based upon intelligence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Republican Chairman Richard Lugar said questions about Bolton's past demeanor were legitimate, but said the paramount issue was U.N. reform, and senators should support Bolton as the president's choice to carry that out -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Andrea Koppel.
Well, President Bush today marked the second anniversary of the liberation of Iraq with a visit to U.S. soldiers and their families in Texas. The president declared there are now more Iraqi security forces than American troops in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Like free people everywhere, Iraqis want to be defended and led by their own countrymen. We will help them achieve this objective so Iraqis can secure their own nation. And then our troops will come home with the honor they have earned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The Pentagon says there are 150,000 trained and equipped Iraqi security forces, and the number of American troops in Iraq is 137,000.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today visited U.S. troops in Iraq. He also met with Iraq's new leaders.
Rumsfeld declared that the United States does not have an exit strategy in Iraq, only a victory strategy. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The unannounced visit to Iraq was Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's ninth since the 2003 invasion. And it comes at a time of cautious optimism that Iraq may be at a tipping point, with the formation of the new transitional government. Rumsfeld met with Iraq's new president and prime minister and told both the U.S. wants no delay in plans for the next round of elections in December.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good progress is being made. I think anyone who watched the elections on January 30 has to recognize the significant contribution made by Iraqi security forces to the success of that election.
MCINTYRE: U.S. casualties have dropped off dramatically in the last six weeks as insurgents have focused increasingly on Iraq's military, police, civilians and government officials. There are now 137,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. And a mid-year review in June will determine how many, if any, will go home.
(on camera): While U.S. military commanders are busy making plans for possible troop reductions in the next year or year-and-a- half, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is carefully avoiding any predictions. Well aware that rosy scenarios often don't pan out, Rumsfeld is sticking to his mantra, that U.S. troops will be withdrawn as soon as they are no longer needed and not one day sooner.
(voice-over): At a town hall meeting with U.S. soldiers in Baghdad, Rumsfeld handed out medals for valor and answered questions from troops anxious to know when their tours might end.
RUMSFELD: We don't really have an exit strategy; we have a victory strategy. The reason we're here is not because the American people or the United States government covets anyone's land or anyone's oil or anyone's people. We don't.
MCINTYRE: This time there were no pointed questions about lack of armor, unlike a similar Q&A session in Kuwait in December. In fact, one soldier thanked Rumsfeld and presented him with an armor plate that saved his life by stopping a sniper's bullet.
And while recruiting and retention remain a problem for the Army in general, more than 100 soldiers took the opportunity of Rumsfeld's visit to reenlist on the spot.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Poland today announced it will pull out its troops from Iraq at the end of this year. Poland has about 1,700 troops in Iraq. Now, the Polish Army leads a multinational division south of Baghdad. The Polish government says the decision is based on the improving security situation in Iraq and the strain on its defense budgets.
Coming up, why your most vital personal information is at risk both at home and overseas.
And a promise of major reforms to our intelligence community. The powerful chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee joins us coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: More than 300,000 customers of LexisNexis may have had their personal financial information stolen. Now, the company initially reported only 32,000 people may have been affected by a security breach. Today, LexisNexis said it will notify another 278,000 people that their personal data may have been stolen.
LexisNexis compiles and sells personal information on its U.S. customers, and hackers apparently broke into those databases nearly 60 times, using stolen passwords. So far, the company says none of the victims have seen any evidence of identity theft.
Well, in India, three former call center employees were arrested for allegedly cheating Citibank customers out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And this fraud is the latest example of the risk posed by exporting jobs and personal information to foreign countries.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Citibank has outsourced some of its customer support services to an Indian firm called Mphasis. The Indian call center apologized on its Web site for the fraud. "We are stepping up our policies and security checkpoints to ensure that we continue to have the highest level of security for our clients."
Three former Mphasis workers and nine other people were arrested last week for allegedly defrauding four Citibank customers out of a reported $350,000.
JOHN MCCARTHY, FORRESTER RESEARCH: The ex-employees in question are alleged to have taken, memorized phone numbers and account numbers that they then used after they left the -- they left the organization to call people and get them to give them -- the consumers to give them their PIN numbers, for which they were then able to get access to the accounts and transfer that money to bank accounts that they had set up in India.
SYLVESTER: Citibank says, "We have made these customers whole for the funds that were fraudulently taken from their accounts. The case is currently being investigated by local authorities in India."
But critics say this should be a wake-up call for corporations who have increasingly looked to India as a source of cheap labor. Outsourcing to India, including call centers, accounting and software programming, has grown into a $17 billion industry. While fraud can happen anywhere, a point Citibank is quick to make, critics say the U.S. consumer may not always have the same legal protections when it happens overseas.
MARCUS COURTNEY, WASHTECH: It's a threat to our privacy information and it raises serious questions in terms of what kind of questions are available to us as Americans when this private financial data goes overseas and something goes wrong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And this is also a reminder to consumers to never give out your PIN number.
Representative Edward Markey will reintroduce legislation this week that will require companies to notify consumers when their private information is going to certain countries and to give the customers the option to opt out -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Well, that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you think American companies should be allowed to export your personal information to foreign companies without your consent? You can vote yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com, and of course we'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
Senator Hillary Clinton proposed legislation that might have prevented the fraud at the Indian call center. Senator Clinton's proposal would require companies to have consent from their customers before they can send any personal information to a foreign country.
Well, the measure would also hold companies responsible for any misuse of customer information by a foreign company. That legislation stalled in Congress last year, and Senator Clinton, however, plans to reintroduce that measure again this year.
Well, do watch "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN" tonight for a special report on identity theft. The one-hour special will tell you everything you need to know about protecting your personal information. That's tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.
The United States trade deficit with the rest of the world has surged once again to a new record. The trade gap topped $61 billion in February, and that is up more than 4 percent from January. The trade deficit with China narrowed slightly, but imports of cheap Chinese textiles surged for another month after the global quotas expired earlier this year.
So as of now, the trade deficit is expected to top $700 billion this year, roughly $100 billion more than last year.
And separately today, Democratic Senator Evan Bayh put a hold on President Bush's nomination for a new U.S. trade representative. Senator Bayh said he will lift the ban on Congressman Ron Portman's nomination if the Senate's Republican leadership allows a vote on its bill to stop unfair foreign trade practices.
Still to come tonight, charges of corruption on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
And then, reforming our nation's intelligence gathering. The chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee will tell us what they say is needed most.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The more than three-year crackdown on corporate crime today spread to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Fifteen traders are now accused of fraud, and the stock exchange itself faces a multimillion-dollar fine.
Christine Romans is here with that report -- Christine. CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, the specialist system at the New York Stock Exchange has been under investigation for almost two years now. Five major firms have paid out hefty settlements for trading violations already. And today, traders themselves were indicted in the biggest crackdown on trading floor abuses in history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): Federal prosecutors indicted 15 New York Stock Exchange floor traders on securities fraud charges. Prosecutors accused them of trading ahead of their clients' orders to enrich their own firms, abusing their unique position on the trading floor and the public's trust.
DAVID KELLY, U.S. ATTORNEY: These defendants are alleged to have systematically cheated the investors by putting their own interests and the interests of their firms before the interests of the unwitting investors.
ROMANS: The defendants are all specialists, the very heart of stock trading on Wall Street.
LUCIAN GANDOLFO, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Specialists are responsible for matching public buy and sell orders at the best possible price. As gatekeepers, the specialists are entrusted to ensure that the New York Stock Exchange functions as a fair and orderly market.
ROMANS: The defendants worked for five of the top specialist firms, trading some of the most well known blue chip stocks at the stock exchange. If convicted, the U.S. Attorney's Office says these traders face jail terms of up to 10 to 20 years and fines of $1 million to $5 million.
The Securities and Exchange Commission also took action, accusing 20 former traders of fraudulent and improper trading from 1999 to 2003.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now, the New York Stock Exchange settled with the SEC for failing to police its traders on the floor. The exchange did not admit or deny guilt. It will pay $20 million to beef up surveillance down there.
PILGRIM: Christine, what was the tone on the floor of the exchange today?
ROMANS: A pretty black mood. You can imagine. Some traders have been saying they have been expecting this. It's been a two-year long investigation.
Some traders were angry. They said, you know, it was abuse of power, it makes it look more corrupt than it really is. Some traders saying that it was a small number of trades overall and they're pretty angry that it's another black eye for the stock exchange. PILGRIM: Yes, it is. Now, the exchange does not admit guilt, firms do not admit guilt. Is this individual responsibility?
ROMANS: The individuals here are being faced with 15 indictments; 20 are named in the SEC -- the SEC movement. So you will see no admission or denial of guilt from the New York Stock Exchange or from the specialist firms. This is going to rest on the shoulders of these individuals.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Christine Romans.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
PILGRIM: Well, coming up, the presidential nominee for a new intel chief promises to avoid major intelligence blunders like the ones before September 11. The chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee join me next.
Also tonight, securing our borders. A group of citizens succeeds where the government has failed. I'll talk to one member of Congress who says protecting our borders is simply a matter of national security.
And winning the war on terror. One leading expert lays out his plan for defeating terror and preserving freedom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In a moment I'll be joined by the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee to talk about today's confirmation hearings for a director of national intelligence. But here are some of the other important stories that we're following tonight.
Food and Drug Administration advisors today rejected a plan to put silicone breast implants back on the market. The advisors say the implants are still not safe enough. The FDA banned those implants for most women in 1992.
Health officials in the southern African nation of Angola are fighting to contain the deadly Marburg virus. This is similar to Ebola. Now, to slow the outbreak, officials may shut down the ward of a hospital treating those infected. The virus has already killed 193 of 218 patients.
A shocking story from Minnesota tonight, where a 200-pound part of an engine fell off a plane and landed in a field. The flight crew didn't notice the piece of the plane was missing until the plane landed in Hawaii.
Luckily, no one was injured.
Well, the Minuteman Project in Arizona is in its second week. And so far, the volunteers have had tremendous success securing the most porous stretch of our nation's border. But the U.S. Border Patrol denies that success. They say the Minutemen have had only a negligible impact on illegal immigration.
Casey Wian has the report from Tucson, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under a railroad bridge on the Mexican side of Arizona's border, it's clear this is a popular resting place for illegal aliens preparing to cross. But these days there's only leftover trash, no aliens in sight.
We encountered these Mexican state judicial police officers who tell us since the Minutemen arrived on el otro lado, the other side, fewer people are trying to make the dangerous journey across the desert. More than a thousand members of the Mexican military are stationed near the border, warning would-be illegal aliens not to cross where the Minutemen are patrolling.
The U.S. Border Patrol has also increased its manpower, yet still refuses to credit the Minutemen for the sharp drop in illegal crossings.
MICHAEL NICLEY, TUCSON BORDER PATROL CHIEF: As far as them having an effect on stopping illegal immigration, it's been negligible. Any kind of an official government presence on the south (ph) is a deterrent. Those people that are crossing the border, that are meaning to come into the United States illegally, don't want to have contact with authorities on the Mexican side or the American side.
WIAN: While the Minutemen say they've assisted on more than 200 illegal alien apprehensions, the Border Patrol claims that number is inflated but won't say by how much. The Border Patrol also says the Minutemen have done more harm than good by triggering hidden sensors used to detect illegal aliens more than a hundred times. The Minutemen say others are causing more work for the Border Patrol.
PAUL FARMER, MINUTEMAN PROJECT VOLUNTEER: The only problem I have had is with the ACLU. They are the ones who are setting off the sensors, not the Minutemen. They are the ones that are traipsing through the under brush, not us Minutemen.
They are the ones that are walking on the side of the road where we were asked not to walk. Because every night the Border Patrol makes a sweep on the sides of the road looking for tracks.
WIAN: So far this month those tracks are scarce. And while the Minutemen and the Border Patrol may disagree over where to place credit and blame, it's clear this 24-mile stretch of border is more secure, at least for now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Privately, some Border Patrol agents say they hope the attention generated by the Minuteman Project will persuade the White House and Congress to give them what they really need, more manpower -- Kitty. PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Casey Wian.
Well, my next guest says the lack of security along our borders is not just about immigration, but also about national security. Congressman Michael McCaul is a member of the House Committee on Homeland Security and the Committee on International Relations.
And Congressman Michael McCaul joins me tonight from Capitol Hill. Thanks for being with us, sir.
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R) TEXAS, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: First of all, let me get your reaction to the piece we just ran on the Minuteman Project. What's your view of this? And doesn't it speak to a large issue of U.S. citizens have to take things in their own hands?
MCCAUL: Well, you know, I'm not in favor of any really citizen taking arms in their own hands, taking the law in their own hands. However, I will say I share with their frustration about the lack of the federal government's ability to truly enforce the border. This is becoming a growing issue, as a large number of illegal immigrants come into this country. And quite honestly, Kitty, it's no longer just an immigration issue, it's truly becoming one of national security.
PILGRIM: This long after 9/11, and yet it's not being taken with as much urgency as it should. Why not?
MCCAUL: Well, let me tell you one thing that I've done in my part in the Congress, and that is we took a look at the 9/11 Commission's recommendations with respect to border security. And the intelligence bill that the Congress passed last Congress, authorized additional Border Patrol agents and interior agents and detention beds which are desperately needed. I sent a letter to the Appropriation Committee with the support of 45 members of the Congress to appropriate what the intelligence bill authorized in funding.
PILGRIM: Well, why has the funding not come through?
MCCAUL: Well, right now we're trying to work that out with the committee. It has not been asked for, but it is in my view desperately needed. You have a situation where we had 1.2 million illegal immigrants arrested at the border, just this last year. And for every one person that the Border Patrol catches, they estimate two to three people get into this country. That means we had last year about 3 million illegal immigrants enter this country. That's enough to fill the size of the city of Dallas.
PILGRIM: It's very much noted on this program. How many Border Patrol agents have you requested in addition to what's in force now?
MCCAUL: We requested as authorized under the intelligence bill 2,000 Border Patrol agents and 8,000 detention beds. The reason why the detention space is so important, is that we have, in addition to people from Mexico entering the country, more importantly it's the individuals from other than Mexico. The countries other than Mexico that come into this country.
A repatriation process has to take place, which can take up to two weeks. Because we don't have enough space to detain these people, they are given a notice to appear at a hearing and then released. It's commonly referred to by law enforcement as a catch and release program. They have no place to put these people.
PILGRIM: Is this not the real fundamental flaw of the system?
MCCAUL: I believe it is. And that's why I've been so strong on this issue. As you know, I worked counter-terrorism in the Justice Department. I think the Border Patrol is doing a phenomenal job with the limited resources they have. What we need to do, the Congress needs to do, is step up to the plate and give them the resources they desperately need right now.
PILGRIM: There's been a debate over how porous the Mexican border is to terrorists seeking to undermine the security of the United States?
Is this a big concern of yours? Is this one of your worries?
MCCAUL: It is, because we know the cartel south of the border will take any sort of contraband including human contraband. We know that Middle Easterners have been smuggled. And we know that they can make approximately 15 to $20,000 per person from a special interest alien or someone from the Middle East. This is a growing concern in this country, in fact, Kitty, this is how Ramzi Yousef, the perpetrator of the '93 World Trade Center bombing got into this country. He was given a notice to appear, he quickly threw that piece of paper away because it's worthless and he went downtown -- to Manhattan to join the first al Qaeda cell. Then they conspired to blow up the World Trade Center. What we're trying to do is to prevent another one -- another Ramzi Yousef -- from ever entering this country again.
PILGRIM: Well, Congressman McCaul, we certainly applaud your efforts and thank you very much for taking the time to highlight them on this program. Congressman McCaul.
MCCAUL: Thank you, Kitty. I appreciate it.
PILGRIM: OK. Well, one of New York City's finest tonight is facing a charge of immigration fraud. New York City Police Sergeant Martin Peters is accused of fraudulently obtaining a green card and then U.S. citizenship. Well, that's not all, he's also accused of bankruptcy fraud and housing fraud. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The arraignment happened here, at Federal Plaza in New York. New York City Police Sergeant Martin Peters formally charged with three counts of fraud.
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: This matter is under investigation by the federal authorities and our Internal Affairs Bureau.
TUCKER: Peters is charged with falsely reporting income to the Department of Housing and Urban Development and then fraudulently receiving almost $39,000 in housing subsidy. He's charged with committing bankruptcy fraud and getting the courts to fraudulently dismiss $79,000 in credit card debt. And he's charged with immigration fraud. The immigration fraud charge alleges Peters entered into a sham marriage in order to get his green card and then his citizenship. Peters immigrated to America from Trinidad.
For Immigration and Customers enforcement agent in the New York office who conducted the investigation with the New York City Police, the immigrations charges are only the tip of the iceberg where Peters is concerned. He's also the primary suspect in the murder of Juliet Alexander four years ago. Alexander was Peters' girlfriend. She was also an Immigration and Deportation agent.
MARTIN FICKE, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: NYPD is the lead on the homicide investigation, and they came to us and asked for our assistance. I think we've done our part here and now charging him with naturalization fraud. Of course, we're hoping if there is anyone out there in the community that has information that may shed light or add new evidence to this particular investigation if they come forward and contact NYPD or contact us.
TUCKER: After posting bail Peters was expected to report to a police precinct to provide a DNA sample as part of the ongoing investigation into Alexander's murder.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, according to New York City Police, Sergeant Peters no longer works for the department. He was considered fired as soon as he was arraigned. If convicted on the charges he faces jail time as well as a loss of a citizenship and, Kitty, ultimately he faces deportation.
PILGRIM: Unbelievable story.
TUCKER: It is ripped from today's TV shows, instead of the headlines, isn't.
PILGRIM: Apparently. Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Well our quote of the day -- quote of tonight, anyway, is on the immigration crisis in this country and the lack of government action to address it. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist today, spoke to reporters about the emergency spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan and some of the immigration amendment some would like to attach to that legislation. Well Senator Frist today said, quote, "I am encouraging my colleagues to defer, to postpone discussions of immigration, and to postpone that debate to a later date."
Well as we report here on an almost nightly basis, the immigration crisis in this country is escalating at an alarming rate. Three million illegal aliens crossed our border last year alone, and it seems time our lawmakers begin debate.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Do you think American companies should be allowed to export your personal information to foreign countries without your consent, yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
And coming up next, a promise of major reform to our intelligence community. The powerful chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee will join us.
And then fighting the war on radical Islamist terrorism. The author of an important new book will tell us how the lessons of the Cold War can help us win this war. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: As we reported, President Bush's nominee for the director of National Intelligence appeared before a Senate confirmation hearing today. John Negroponte told the Senate Intelligence Committee that reforming our nation's intelligence agency is a top priority.
I'm joined now by the chairman and the vice chairman of that committee, Senator Pat Roberts and Senator Jay Rockefeller join me from Capitol Hill. And thanks, gentlemen, for joining me.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R) KANSAS, CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: It's our pleasure, thank you.
PILGRIM: You know, it's a tough job, somebody has to do it. And a quote from the hearing today really struck me. "Just by showing up on the first day on the job, he's going to step on some toes." This is a tough balancing act, isn't it, sir?
ROBERTS: Well, there's no question about that. We have 15 different agencies, and we have a lot of different cultures and different approaches. I think we have done a lot better, more especially after 9/11, but Jay and I both agree that John Negroponte is uniquely qualified. He's been confirmed by the Senate seven times. He's had nine background checks. I think he has an excellent background. I think he's got to lend -- I think he will lend a lot of credibility overseas, where he has a lot of real credibility, and then with his assistant, General Michael Hayden, if he is confirmed, and I expect he will be, and I expect John will be as well. I think it will be a very dynamic team. But yes, it's going to be a tough job.
PILGRIM: Senator Rockefeller, how do you think the hearings went today?
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D) WEST VIRGINIA, VICE CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I think they went very well. And what occurred to me was that it's probably a very good thing that he's not of the military world, he is not of the intelligence world, he's not of the political world. He's of the diplomatic foreign service world, which means he knows a little bit about all of those, or quite a lot in his case about all of them. So I think the chances for his being able to -- I think he has a lot of self-confidence. He's a very kind of a take-charge guy. And I think -- yet he's also a diplomat. You know, he succeeds by persuading. So bringing all these 15 intelligence agencies together, making it work with the Department of Defense and with the White House and all the rest of it, I think he's very strongly suited for that. And I think he knows it. I think he knows it.
PILGRIM: There were some questions raised, as expected, about his tenure in Honduras and other parts of his background. How do you think Ambassador Negroponte handled those questions, Senator Roberts?
ROBERTS: Well, I think he handled them very well. This happened 25 years ago. All of that has been discussed in various committees in the Senate, more especially the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He was approved unanimously for the top spot at the U.N., and then to be our first ambassador to Iraq in Baghdad. Basically, I think he handled it very well. He answered all the questions that I was concerned about. I'm not trying to denigrate concern on the part of some senators, but I think that is history, and I think he'll be confirmed.
PILGRIM: You know, you both have been very critical of the intelligence failure of 9/11 and the collection of evidence on Iraq. Senator Roberts, I'm struck, you called them "Oh my God, how did it happen hearings." With the new head of the CIA, the new director of national intelligence, do you think that we have the capacity to move forward and not have these types of hearings again? Or do you think that we may stumble forward and make mistakes again?
ROBERTS: Well, Kitty, I think you're going to find a situation that, you know, terrorism will not be the last threat that, you know, faces the United States. And you are always going to have threats.
On the "oh my God hearings," basically in the past, what we have said is "oh my God, how did this happen? Let's try to fix it." Both Jay and I have determined that our committee needs to be and will be, after our WMD inquiry, much more proactive, much more preemptive. We want to get at the intelligence that we need to really watch our adversaries and to get the best advice to our policy makers -- the president, the National Security Council, the Congress, others -- and make sure that we have the capability to do what the intelligence community is saying.
So I think you're going to see a much more active Intelligence Committee, and we need the help of the DNI. We need his suggestions and his advice as we go through this. Some of us worry that he does not have enough authority to really handle the responsibilities that we gave him in the intelligence reform bill. He's very much aware of that. I look for a very strong and cooperative effort.
PILGRIM: Senator Rockefeller, do you think he'll get the support he needs?
ROCKEFELLER: I do. I think what has happened, Kitty, is that since 9/11, it's like not just the whole world is turned upside down, but the whole way that one approaches intelligence and coordination, cooperation between not only our own agencies but between countries, has changed dramatically. The world is now defined in different terms.
And I think what Pat and I are saying is that it takes a very strong, self-confident leader to do the United States' part of that, which is to bring all of our agencies together. And he'll have that power. He may not have all the powers he needs yet, but his -- the own -- his own force of personality, I think, will fill out a lot of those gaps, just by his own executive action, backed up by the president's backing. It's going to be very, very important, particularly in the first couple of disputes that he might have, let's say, with the Department of Defense.
But I think he'll get that backing, because he's a real pro. I mean, there are very few people I've met who have the experience and the savvy and the calmness that he does have.
ROBERTS: What the vice chairman just pointed out is very important, because of what the president has said, and President Bush has indicated he is my top man on intelligence. He's my point person. He does have control over the budget. He does have the authority. But both Jay and I know that, you know, presidents come and go. And as far as that goes, so do members of Congress. So if there are certain things we need to legislate, we're going to ask his advice and counsel first; we will certainly take that into consideration.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much for joining us this evening, Senator Roberts and Senator Rockefeller. Thank you, gentlemen.
ROBERTS: We thank you.
PILGRIM: Coming up at the top of the hour on "ANDERSON COOPER 360," a special report on the Navy's use of sonar and how that could be killing dolphins. Anderson Cooper is here now with a preview of that -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Hey, good evening, Kitty. Yeah, in about 13 minutes here on 360, dozens of dolphins stranding themselves off the Florida coast. Now, some scientists blame Navy sonar. We're going to take a closer look at the technology. Plus, we take you in the water as rescue workers race against time to save these dolphins.
Also tonight, a nationwide manhunt for a dangerous ex-con comes to an end. Find out how a smooth-talking felon managed to build trust and make friends in a small town. All that, more, coming up at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: We'll look forward to it, Anderson. Thanks a lot.
Internet geeks, auto mechanics, soccer moms are all playing an important role in the U.S. strategy to win the war on terror. And my guest tells us why when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: My guest tonight says lessons learned from fighting the Cold War can help us fight the War on Terrorism. He says the most important way to win the war is having the right strategy. But he also says it's critical for Americans to have confidence in that strategy. He is co-author of a new book, it's called "Winning the Long War: Lessons from the Cold War for Defeating Terrorism and Preserving Freedom."
Joining me from Washington is James Jay Carafano, senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Always nice to see you, Jim.
JAMES JAY CARAFANO, AUTHOR "WINNING THE LONG WAR": Good to be with you.
PILGRIM: One of the key things about this book -- you talk about the length of this war on terror. Do you think America is really prepared for this?
CARAFANO: Well, I do if we get the strategy right. What we did in the book was ask one really simple question, which is, how do you win a long war? And there've been lots of long wars through history. Typically what happens is, as countries get desperate to win, they try to generate more power by pulling authority to the center, raising taxation, suppressing civil liberties, just to get enough power to win. And, actually what happens, is they wind up becoming less flexible, less powerful, which is why, at the end of long wars, typically both sides are prostrate.
Really, very few exceptions to that. One of them is Cold War, where the United States comes out at the end of the war more strong, more vibrant, more powerful -- the Constitution is still in place. And so we just asked ourselves, how did we do that? And what can we learn from that to fight the war on terrorism?
PILGRIM: And how are we doing so far?
CARAFANO: You know, in some areas, not bad. We talked about four key elements of the strategy: security, offense and defense, promoting economic growth -- very important because that's what enables the countries to sustain over the long term -- protecting civil liberties and privacy, and winning the war of ideas. All of them have to be done. We are doing pretty good on the security front. We think we're doing very, very well on the civil liberties front. Where we really are concerned about is having the economic growth to really sustain the long war, not because of defense spending and homeland security spending, but because of long-term economic problems in the United States and winning the struggle of ideas which we think we are not well-organized to do.
PILGRIM: It's very hard to tie all those elements in. Let me just raise one question -- and you point out that Osama bin Laden occasionally pops up on tape. How does that play into the whole strategy in the war of ideas and the psychology of this war on terror?
CARAFANO: Well, that's very interesting. There've been a lot of bin Laden sightings over the last couple of years. Part of that you might argue is because we've been so successful in the security side that there's kind of not much else he can do right now.
What al Qaeda is really focused on is recruiting, they focus on trying to do fund raising, really to try to get back in the game and do attacks where they can reach. They reached Europe, they've done things in Iraq, they've tried to do things in the United States, just to demonstrate they are in the game. Failing that, what bin Laden is trying to do is get people out there to convince them that he's still in the fight. And it just goes to show that you don't win the war until you win the war in the minds of men.
PILGRIM: You know, one of the things we told our audience was that you take this down to the level of soccer moms and Internet geeks and average citizens. What do you mean by that? Why is that so important?
CARAFANO: In large part, the reason why we won the Cold War -- once we got through the early years of the Cold War, after -- when the Korean War broke out, that really brought the Cold War home to Main Street. Americans really started to think, this could really affect my life. And then, what they really saw is, I mean, there were tough times, but Americans really -- by the '60s -- really had a feeling the nation was going to pull through.
Certainly in the '80s and the Reagan era there was enormous confidence, so -- but that was because, at a fundamental level, Americans just believed there might be good times and bad times, but that the nation was going to pull through. And that's kind of what we need here. People need to understand the basics of what the country is trying to do, not that they are going to be protected from every terrorist attack, and not that there are never going to be bad days in our history, but to have the courage and confidence that their government is actually doing the right thing, and that they will win in the long term.
PILGRIM: Really quickly, it's been a good bit of time since September 11th. We have successfully managed to not have another terrorist attack. Do you think it's losing the urgency in the American mindset?
CARAFANO: Well, you know, the distance between attacks is interesting but irrelevant. Took five years to plan 9/11. Took three years to plan the Madrid bombings. The fact is, that's not a good metric to measure success. You do need the government to be out there and doing the right thing. You do need the American people to have confidence in that.
We won the Cold War in 1947. We won the Cold War the day it started because we did the right things. We put the right strategy in place, we said we weren't going to change who we are, we're going to keep the Constitution. We were going to do what had to get done, and we were going to make the world a better place.
I think we won this long war on September 12 because we decided that America was going to do the same kind of things. As long as Americans have confidence and we do that, this nation will prevail.
PILGRIM: Thank you so much for being with us and pointing that out. James Carafano.
CARAFANO: Thanks, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Up next, one lawmaker in West Virginia is upset over a bill he voted for.
Plus the results of tonight's poll. So, look at your thoughts when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIMS: Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Kris in San Antonio, Texas, writes, "The Minuteman Project, surprisingly enough, has been the only thing that has brought me any sense of peace. After months of writing my elected officials I feel a whole lot better supporting this project and saving my breath."
Sharon Bach in North Carolina writes, "I asked a retired CEO of a major corporation, 'If all the jobs are going to Mexico, why are the Mexicans still coming here?' With a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'They aren't coming for the jobs, they're coming for the benefits.'"
Well, we do love hearing from you. Send us our thoughts at LouDobbs@CNN.com, and each of you whose e-mail is read on the broadcast will receive a copy of Lou's book, which is called "Exporting America."
Also, if you would like to receive our e-mail newsletter, sign up at our website at LouDobbs.com.
Well, as we reported, Arizona has a proposal to make English its official language, and tonight, state lawmakers in West Virginia have unanimously approved a measure to do just that. But it turns out some lawmakers weren't even aware of the amendment. It was added on to a bill on parks and recreation issues, just before the end of the session. Well, the West Virginia judiciary chairman says it's wrong when such an amendment was snuck into the bill at the last minute. Well, one might think he would have read it before voting for it.
Let's give you the results of tonight's poll, and here they are: 99 percent of you say that American companies should not be allowed to export your personal information to foreign countries without your consent -- that seems pretty reasonable; 1 percent say they should be allowed.
Well, thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. Congress holds a hearing on immigration and the alien gang epidemic in this country. The chairman of the House Immigration Subcommittee will join us.
Also, tomorrow, the Mexican Army is helping illegal aliens who are trying to cross our border with Mexico. And, also we will face off against a leading congressman over controversial Mexican I.D. cards used in this country.
For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.
END
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Aired April 12, 2005 - 18:00 ET
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KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Well, tonight we're going to be reporting on a major terror indictment, an alleged plot to use weapons of mass destruction. And the target, some of this country's most important financial institutions.
Also tonight, exporting your security, overseas outsourcing and fraud. Customers of a big U.S. bank cheated out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And "Broken Borders." The Minutemen claim a major success against illegal aliens, but the Border Patrol says the impact has been negligible. We'll have a special report from Arizona.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate and opinion, tonight. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening. Federal prosecutors today unsealed an indictment against three men accused of plotting to use weapons of mass destruction. Now, the men are charged with carrying out scouting missions for a possible terrorist attack against the United States. Prosecutors say there was a terrorist conspiracy to attack financial targets recently as August last year.
Justice correspondent Kelli Arena has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The surveillance of financial buildings, including the Citigroup Center in New York City, was startling in its detail. Discovered last summer in Pakistan and Britain, government officials say it is the surest sign of al Qaeda's determination to again strike the United States. Now the men who allegedly came to the United States to conduct that surveillance have been indicted.
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: All of us know that terrorists looking to harm Americans were at work for a very long period of time conducting sophisticated surveillance. And they are very, very patient.
ARENA: The three men are already in custody in Britain facing terror-related charges there. One of them, Dhiran Barot, also known as Issa al-Hindi, is described as a senior al Qaeda operative who helped train terrorists and reported directly to September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Issa al-Hindi was a major player and major al Qaeda operative. So he was, in fact, here in New York City doing that sort of surveillance. So it's a very significant case.
ARENA: Al-Hindi and two of his associates are charged with conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction against the United States -- namely, bombs -- and with conspiring to and providing material support to terrorists.
The government says the men were scoping out targets in New York, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C. in 2000 and 2001. But prosecutors say the conspiracy continued way past then.
COMEY: This conspiracy was alive and kicking up till August of 2004.
ARENA: Those surveillance reports the suspects allegedly prepared were so thorough the government initially raised the terror alert last year for the financial sectors.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: They had looked for structural weaknesses. They made recommendations about where you would place a bomb to bring the building down. They made efforts to understand what the casualty level would be. For example, they counted the number of people passing in front of the building every day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: The prosecution of those men in Britain is in its early stages. And officials say when that's over, then the U.S. plans on seeking extradition -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Kelli Arena.
Well, President Bush's nominee to be director of national intelligence today promised major changes in our intelligence community. John Negroponte told his Senate confirmation hearing that he will introduce reforms to prevent any more intelligence blunders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, NOMINEE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: The law does give me substantial authority. And even in areas where there might be ambiguities, I think I have been encouraged by many of the people that I've consulted with during these past two weeks to push the envelope and use what authorities I believe I have to the utmost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Well, later in the broadcast, I'll be talking with the chairman and vice chairman of that hearing, Senator Pat Roberts and Senator Jay Rockefeller.
Elsewhere on Capitol Hill, there was new criticism today of John Bolton, President Bush's nominee to be our United Nations ambassador. A former State Department official declared Bolton is, quote, "a serial abuser of junior staff." At issue, is whether Bolton tries to intimidate people who disagree with his point of view.
Andrea Koppel reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A self-described loyal Republican, conservative to the core, Carl Ford made clear he was a reluctant witness. But Ford said he felt compelled to testify that John Bolton was a "serial abuser who bullied subordinates."
CARL FORD, FMR. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: He's a quintessential kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy. There are a lot of them around. I'm sure you've met them.
KOPPEL: Ford is the former chief of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, where he supervised an analyst who butted heads with Bolton in 2002 over intelligence on Castro's Cuba. Democrats hoped Ford would give credence to allegations Bolton tried to pressure the analyst to change his findings and when the analysts refused looked to Ford to fire him. A charge Bolton denies.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: I want to just be clear that from your testimony today you are quite certain that Mr. Bolton actively sought to have this gentleman removed from his position?
FORD: Yes.
OBAMA: You don't know whether he said...
FORD: I only know what I...
OBAMA: ... fire that guy, get rid of that guy. You know, this is unacceptable. You don't know exactly what the phraseology was, but...
FORD: I got the message.
OBAMA: ... you got the message.
KOPPEL: Republicans countered this was only one heated exchange and not a pattern of troubling behavior.
SEN. MEL MARTINEZ (R), FLORIDA: But you really cannot in good faith under oath suggest that you have the ability to tell this committee that this now represents a broader character flaw in Mr. Bolton's part, can you?
FORD: You're absolutely correct.
KOPPEL: Democrats argued, with U.S. credibility at the United Nations already severely damaged over misleading U.S. intelligence on Iraq's WMD, questions about Bolton's alleged manipulation of intelligence would further damage U.S. interests.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: This is the very man who may have to take the case to the world on Korea and on Iran based upon intelligence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Republican Chairman Richard Lugar said questions about Bolton's past demeanor were legitimate, but said the paramount issue was U.N. reform, and senators should support Bolton as the president's choice to carry that out -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Andrea Koppel.
Well, President Bush today marked the second anniversary of the liberation of Iraq with a visit to U.S. soldiers and their families in Texas. The president declared there are now more Iraqi security forces than American troops in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Like free people everywhere, Iraqis want to be defended and led by their own countrymen. We will help them achieve this objective so Iraqis can secure their own nation. And then our troops will come home with the honor they have earned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The Pentagon says there are 150,000 trained and equipped Iraqi security forces, and the number of American troops in Iraq is 137,000.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today visited U.S. troops in Iraq. He also met with Iraq's new leaders.
Rumsfeld declared that the United States does not have an exit strategy in Iraq, only a victory strategy. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The unannounced visit to Iraq was Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's ninth since the 2003 invasion. And it comes at a time of cautious optimism that Iraq may be at a tipping point, with the formation of the new transitional government. Rumsfeld met with Iraq's new president and prime minister and told both the U.S. wants no delay in plans for the next round of elections in December.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good progress is being made. I think anyone who watched the elections on January 30 has to recognize the significant contribution made by Iraqi security forces to the success of that election.
MCINTYRE: U.S. casualties have dropped off dramatically in the last six weeks as insurgents have focused increasingly on Iraq's military, police, civilians and government officials. There are now 137,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. And a mid-year review in June will determine how many, if any, will go home.
(on camera): While U.S. military commanders are busy making plans for possible troop reductions in the next year or year-and-a- half, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is carefully avoiding any predictions. Well aware that rosy scenarios often don't pan out, Rumsfeld is sticking to his mantra, that U.S. troops will be withdrawn as soon as they are no longer needed and not one day sooner.
(voice-over): At a town hall meeting with U.S. soldiers in Baghdad, Rumsfeld handed out medals for valor and answered questions from troops anxious to know when their tours might end.
RUMSFELD: We don't really have an exit strategy; we have a victory strategy. The reason we're here is not because the American people or the United States government covets anyone's land or anyone's oil or anyone's people. We don't.
MCINTYRE: This time there were no pointed questions about lack of armor, unlike a similar Q&A session in Kuwait in December. In fact, one soldier thanked Rumsfeld and presented him with an armor plate that saved his life by stopping a sniper's bullet.
And while recruiting and retention remain a problem for the Army in general, more than 100 soldiers took the opportunity of Rumsfeld's visit to reenlist on the spot.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Poland today announced it will pull out its troops from Iraq at the end of this year. Poland has about 1,700 troops in Iraq. Now, the Polish Army leads a multinational division south of Baghdad. The Polish government says the decision is based on the improving security situation in Iraq and the strain on its defense budgets.
Coming up, why your most vital personal information is at risk both at home and overseas.
And a promise of major reforms to our intelligence community. The powerful chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee joins us coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: More than 300,000 customers of LexisNexis may have had their personal financial information stolen. Now, the company initially reported only 32,000 people may have been affected by a security breach. Today, LexisNexis said it will notify another 278,000 people that their personal data may have been stolen.
LexisNexis compiles and sells personal information on its U.S. customers, and hackers apparently broke into those databases nearly 60 times, using stolen passwords. So far, the company says none of the victims have seen any evidence of identity theft.
Well, in India, three former call center employees were arrested for allegedly cheating Citibank customers out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And this fraud is the latest example of the risk posed by exporting jobs and personal information to foreign countries.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Citibank has outsourced some of its customer support services to an Indian firm called Mphasis. The Indian call center apologized on its Web site for the fraud. "We are stepping up our policies and security checkpoints to ensure that we continue to have the highest level of security for our clients."
Three former Mphasis workers and nine other people were arrested last week for allegedly defrauding four Citibank customers out of a reported $350,000.
JOHN MCCARTHY, FORRESTER RESEARCH: The ex-employees in question are alleged to have taken, memorized phone numbers and account numbers that they then used after they left the -- they left the organization to call people and get them to give them -- the consumers to give them their PIN numbers, for which they were then able to get access to the accounts and transfer that money to bank accounts that they had set up in India.
SYLVESTER: Citibank says, "We have made these customers whole for the funds that were fraudulently taken from their accounts. The case is currently being investigated by local authorities in India."
But critics say this should be a wake-up call for corporations who have increasingly looked to India as a source of cheap labor. Outsourcing to India, including call centers, accounting and software programming, has grown into a $17 billion industry. While fraud can happen anywhere, a point Citibank is quick to make, critics say the U.S. consumer may not always have the same legal protections when it happens overseas.
MARCUS COURTNEY, WASHTECH: It's a threat to our privacy information and it raises serious questions in terms of what kind of questions are available to us as Americans when this private financial data goes overseas and something goes wrong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And this is also a reminder to consumers to never give out your PIN number.
Representative Edward Markey will reintroduce legislation this week that will require companies to notify consumers when their private information is going to certain countries and to give the customers the option to opt out -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Well, that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you think American companies should be allowed to export your personal information to foreign companies without your consent? You can vote yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com, and of course we'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
Senator Hillary Clinton proposed legislation that might have prevented the fraud at the Indian call center. Senator Clinton's proposal would require companies to have consent from their customers before they can send any personal information to a foreign country.
Well, the measure would also hold companies responsible for any misuse of customer information by a foreign company. That legislation stalled in Congress last year, and Senator Clinton, however, plans to reintroduce that measure again this year.
Well, do watch "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN" tonight for a special report on identity theft. The one-hour special will tell you everything you need to know about protecting your personal information. That's tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.
The United States trade deficit with the rest of the world has surged once again to a new record. The trade gap topped $61 billion in February, and that is up more than 4 percent from January. The trade deficit with China narrowed slightly, but imports of cheap Chinese textiles surged for another month after the global quotas expired earlier this year.
So as of now, the trade deficit is expected to top $700 billion this year, roughly $100 billion more than last year.
And separately today, Democratic Senator Evan Bayh put a hold on President Bush's nomination for a new U.S. trade representative. Senator Bayh said he will lift the ban on Congressman Ron Portman's nomination if the Senate's Republican leadership allows a vote on its bill to stop unfair foreign trade practices.
Still to come tonight, charges of corruption on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
And then, reforming our nation's intelligence gathering. The chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee will tell us what they say is needed most.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The more than three-year crackdown on corporate crime today spread to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Fifteen traders are now accused of fraud, and the stock exchange itself faces a multimillion-dollar fine.
Christine Romans is here with that report -- Christine. CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, the specialist system at the New York Stock Exchange has been under investigation for almost two years now. Five major firms have paid out hefty settlements for trading violations already. And today, traders themselves were indicted in the biggest crackdown on trading floor abuses in history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): Federal prosecutors indicted 15 New York Stock Exchange floor traders on securities fraud charges. Prosecutors accused them of trading ahead of their clients' orders to enrich their own firms, abusing their unique position on the trading floor and the public's trust.
DAVID KELLY, U.S. ATTORNEY: These defendants are alleged to have systematically cheated the investors by putting their own interests and the interests of their firms before the interests of the unwitting investors.
ROMANS: The defendants are all specialists, the very heart of stock trading on Wall Street.
LUCIAN GANDOLFO, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Specialists are responsible for matching public buy and sell orders at the best possible price. As gatekeepers, the specialists are entrusted to ensure that the New York Stock Exchange functions as a fair and orderly market.
ROMANS: The defendants worked for five of the top specialist firms, trading some of the most well known blue chip stocks at the stock exchange. If convicted, the U.S. Attorney's Office says these traders face jail terms of up to 10 to 20 years and fines of $1 million to $5 million.
The Securities and Exchange Commission also took action, accusing 20 former traders of fraudulent and improper trading from 1999 to 2003.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now, the New York Stock Exchange settled with the SEC for failing to police its traders on the floor. The exchange did not admit or deny guilt. It will pay $20 million to beef up surveillance down there.
PILGRIM: Christine, what was the tone on the floor of the exchange today?
ROMANS: A pretty black mood. You can imagine. Some traders have been saying they have been expecting this. It's been a two-year long investigation.
Some traders were angry. They said, you know, it was abuse of power, it makes it look more corrupt than it really is. Some traders saying that it was a small number of trades overall and they're pretty angry that it's another black eye for the stock exchange. PILGRIM: Yes, it is. Now, the exchange does not admit guilt, firms do not admit guilt. Is this individual responsibility?
ROMANS: The individuals here are being faced with 15 indictments; 20 are named in the SEC -- the SEC movement. So you will see no admission or denial of guilt from the New York Stock Exchange or from the specialist firms. This is going to rest on the shoulders of these individuals.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Christine Romans.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
PILGRIM: Well, coming up, the presidential nominee for a new intel chief promises to avoid major intelligence blunders like the ones before September 11. The chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee join me next.
Also tonight, securing our borders. A group of citizens succeeds where the government has failed. I'll talk to one member of Congress who says protecting our borders is simply a matter of national security.
And winning the war on terror. One leading expert lays out his plan for defeating terror and preserving freedom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In a moment I'll be joined by the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee to talk about today's confirmation hearings for a director of national intelligence. But here are some of the other important stories that we're following tonight.
Food and Drug Administration advisors today rejected a plan to put silicone breast implants back on the market. The advisors say the implants are still not safe enough. The FDA banned those implants for most women in 1992.
Health officials in the southern African nation of Angola are fighting to contain the deadly Marburg virus. This is similar to Ebola. Now, to slow the outbreak, officials may shut down the ward of a hospital treating those infected. The virus has already killed 193 of 218 patients.
A shocking story from Minnesota tonight, where a 200-pound part of an engine fell off a plane and landed in a field. The flight crew didn't notice the piece of the plane was missing until the plane landed in Hawaii.
Luckily, no one was injured.
Well, the Minuteman Project in Arizona is in its second week. And so far, the volunteers have had tremendous success securing the most porous stretch of our nation's border. But the U.S. Border Patrol denies that success. They say the Minutemen have had only a negligible impact on illegal immigration.
Casey Wian has the report from Tucson, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under a railroad bridge on the Mexican side of Arizona's border, it's clear this is a popular resting place for illegal aliens preparing to cross. But these days there's only leftover trash, no aliens in sight.
We encountered these Mexican state judicial police officers who tell us since the Minutemen arrived on el otro lado, the other side, fewer people are trying to make the dangerous journey across the desert. More than a thousand members of the Mexican military are stationed near the border, warning would-be illegal aliens not to cross where the Minutemen are patrolling.
The U.S. Border Patrol has also increased its manpower, yet still refuses to credit the Minutemen for the sharp drop in illegal crossings.
MICHAEL NICLEY, TUCSON BORDER PATROL CHIEF: As far as them having an effect on stopping illegal immigration, it's been negligible. Any kind of an official government presence on the south (ph) is a deterrent. Those people that are crossing the border, that are meaning to come into the United States illegally, don't want to have contact with authorities on the Mexican side or the American side.
WIAN: While the Minutemen say they've assisted on more than 200 illegal alien apprehensions, the Border Patrol claims that number is inflated but won't say by how much. The Border Patrol also says the Minutemen have done more harm than good by triggering hidden sensors used to detect illegal aliens more than a hundred times. The Minutemen say others are causing more work for the Border Patrol.
PAUL FARMER, MINUTEMAN PROJECT VOLUNTEER: The only problem I have had is with the ACLU. They are the ones who are setting off the sensors, not the Minutemen. They are the ones that are traipsing through the under brush, not us Minutemen.
They are the ones that are walking on the side of the road where we were asked not to walk. Because every night the Border Patrol makes a sweep on the sides of the road looking for tracks.
WIAN: So far this month those tracks are scarce. And while the Minutemen and the Border Patrol may disagree over where to place credit and blame, it's clear this 24-mile stretch of border is more secure, at least for now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Privately, some Border Patrol agents say they hope the attention generated by the Minuteman Project will persuade the White House and Congress to give them what they really need, more manpower -- Kitty. PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Casey Wian.
Well, my next guest says the lack of security along our borders is not just about immigration, but also about national security. Congressman Michael McCaul is a member of the House Committee on Homeland Security and the Committee on International Relations.
And Congressman Michael McCaul joins me tonight from Capitol Hill. Thanks for being with us, sir.
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R) TEXAS, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: First of all, let me get your reaction to the piece we just ran on the Minuteman Project. What's your view of this? And doesn't it speak to a large issue of U.S. citizens have to take things in their own hands?
MCCAUL: Well, you know, I'm not in favor of any really citizen taking arms in their own hands, taking the law in their own hands. However, I will say I share with their frustration about the lack of the federal government's ability to truly enforce the border. This is becoming a growing issue, as a large number of illegal immigrants come into this country. And quite honestly, Kitty, it's no longer just an immigration issue, it's truly becoming one of national security.
PILGRIM: This long after 9/11, and yet it's not being taken with as much urgency as it should. Why not?
MCCAUL: Well, let me tell you one thing that I've done in my part in the Congress, and that is we took a look at the 9/11 Commission's recommendations with respect to border security. And the intelligence bill that the Congress passed last Congress, authorized additional Border Patrol agents and interior agents and detention beds which are desperately needed. I sent a letter to the Appropriation Committee with the support of 45 members of the Congress to appropriate what the intelligence bill authorized in funding.
PILGRIM: Well, why has the funding not come through?
MCCAUL: Well, right now we're trying to work that out with the committee. It has not been asked for, but it is in my view desperately needed. You have a situation where we had 1.2 million illegal immigrants arrested at the border, just this last year. And for every one person that the Border Patrol catches, they estimate two to three people get into this country. That means we had last year about 3 million illegal immigrants enter this country. That's enough to fill the size of the city of Dallas.
PILGRIM: It's very much noted on this program. How many Border Patrol agents have you requested in addition to what's in force now?
MCCAUL: We requested as authorized under the intelligence bill 2,000 Border Patrol agents and 8,000 detention beds. The reason why the detention space is so important, is that we have, in addition to people from Mexico entering the country, more importantly it's the individuals from other than Mexico. The countries other than Mexico that come into this country.
A repatriation process has to take place, which can take up to two weeks. Because we don't have enough space to detain these people, they are given a notice to appear at a hearing and then released. It's commonly referred to by law enforcement as a catch and release program. They have no place to put these people.
PILGRIM: Is this not the real fundamental flaw of the system?
MCCAUL: I believe it is. And that's why I've been so strong on this issue. As you know, I worked counter-terrorism in the Justice Department. I think the Border Patrol is doing a phenomenal job with the limited resources they have. What we need to do, the Congress needs to do, is step up to the plate and give them the resources they desperately need right now.
PILGRIM: There's been a debate over how porous the Mexican border is to terrorists seeking to undermine the security of the United States?
Is this a big concern of yours? Is this one of your worries?
MCCAUL: It is, because we know the cartel south of the border will take any sort of contraband including human contraband. We know that Middle Easterners have been smuggled. And we know that they can make approximately 15 to $20,000 per person from a special interest alien or someone from the Middle East. This is a growing concern in this country, in fact, Kitty, this is how Ramzi Yousef, the perpetrator of the '93 World Trade Center bombing got into this country. He was given a notice to appear, he quickly threw that piece of paper away because it's worthless and he went downtown -- to Manhattan to join the first al Qaeda cell. Then they conspired to blow up the World Trade Center. What we're trying to do is to prevent another one -- another Ramzi Yousef -- from ever entering this country again.
PILGRIM: Well, Congressman McCaul, we certainly applaud your efforts and thank you very much for taking the time to highlight them on this program. Congressman McCaul.
MCCAUL: Thank you, Kitty. I appreciate it.
PILGRIM: OK. Well, one of New York City's finest tonight is facing a charge of immigration fraud. New York City Police Sergeant Martin Peters is accused of fraudulently obtaining a green card and then U.S. citizenship. Well, that's not all, he's also accused of bankruptcy fraud and housing fraud. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The arraignment happened here, at Federal Plaza in New York. New York City Police Sergeant Martin Peters formally charged with three counts of fraud.
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: This matter is under investigation by the federal authorities and our Internal Affairs Bureau.
TUCKER: Peters is charged with falsely reporting income to the Department of Housing and Urban Development and then fraudulently receiving almost $39,000 in housing subsidy. He's charged with committing bankruptcy fraud and getting the courts to fraudulently dismiss $79,000 in credit card debt. And he's charged with immigration fraud. The immigration fraud charge alleges Peters entered into a sham marriage in order to get his green card and then his citizenship. Peters immigrated to America from Trinidad.
For Immigration and Customers enforcement agent in the New York office who conducted the investigation with the New York City Police, the immigrations charges are only the tip of the iceberg where Peters is concerned. He's also the primary suspect in the murder of Juliet Alexander four years ago. Alexander was Peters' girlfriend. She was also an Immigration and Deportation agent.
MARTIN FICKE, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: NYPD is the lead on the homicide investigation, and they came to us and asked for our assistance. I think we've done our part here and now charging him with naturalization fraud. Of course, we're hoping if there is anyone out there in the community that has information that may shed light or add new evidence to this particular investigation if they come forward and contact NYPD or contact us.
TUCKER: After posting bail Peters was expected to report to a police precinct to provide a DNA sample as part of the ongoing investigation into Alexander's murder.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, according to New York City Police, Sergeant Peters no longer works for the department. He was considered fired as soon as he was arraigned. If convicted on the charges he faces jail time as well as a loss of a citizenship and, Kitty, ultimately he faces deportation.
PILGRIM: Unbelievable story.
TUCKER: It is ripped from today's TV shows, instead of the headlines, isn't.
PILGRIM: Apparently. Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Well our quote of the day -- quote of tonight, anyway, is on the immigration crisis in this country and the lack of government action to address it. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist today, spoke to reporters about the emergency spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan and some of the immigration amendment some would like to attach to that legislation. Well Senator Frist today said, quote, "I am encouraging my colleagues to defer, to postpone discussions of immigration, and to postpone that debate to a later date."
Well as we report here on an almost nightly basis, the immigration crisis in this country is escalating at an alarming rate. Three million illegal aliens crossed our border last year alone, and it seems time our lawmakers begin debate.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Do you think American companies should be allowed to export your personal information to foreign countries without your consent, yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
And coming up next, a promise of major reform to our intelligence community. The powerful chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee will join us.
And then fighting the war on radical Islamist terrorism. The author of an important new book will tell us how the lessons of the Cold War can help us win this war. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: As we reported, President Bush's nominee for the director of National Intelligence appeared before a Senate confirmation hearing today. John Negroponte told the Senate Intelligence Committee that reforming our nation's intelligence agency is a top priority.
I'm joined now by the chairman and the vice chairman of that committee, Senator Pat Roberts and Senator Jay Rockefeller join me from Capitol Hill. And thanks, gentlemen, for joining me.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R) KANSAS, CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: It's our pleasure, thank you.
PILGRIM: You know, it's a tough job, somebody has to do it. And a quote from the hearing today really struck me. "Just by showing up on the first day on the job, he's going to step on some toes." This is a tough balancing act, isn't it, sir?
ROBERTS: Well, there's no question about that. We have 15 different agencies, and we have a lot of different cultures and different approaches. I think we have done a lot better, more especially after 9/11, but Jay and I both agree that John Negroponte is uniquely qualified. He's been confirmed by the Senate seven times. He's had nine background checks. I think he has an excellent background. I think he's got to lend -- I think he will lend a lot of credibility overseas, where he has a lot of real credibility, and then with his assistant, General Michael Hayden, if he is confirmed, and I expect he will be, and I expect John will be as well. I think it will be a very dynamic team. But yes, it's going to be a tough job.
PILGRIM: Senator Rockefeller, how do you think the hearings went today?
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D) WEST VIRGINIA, VICE CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I think they went very well. And what occurred to me was that it's probably a very good thing that he's not of the military world, he is not of the intelligence world, he's not of the political world. He's of the diplomatic foreign service world, which means he knows a little bit about all of those, or quite a lot in his case about all of them. So I think the chances for his being able to -- I think he has a lot of self-confidence. He's a very kind of a take-charge guy. And I think -- yet he's also a diplomat. You know, he succeeds by persuading. So bringing all these 15 intelligence agencies together, making it work with the Department of Defense and with the White House and all the rest of it, I think he's very strongly suited for that. And I think he knows it. I think he knows it.
PILGRIM: There were some questions raised, as expected, about his tenure in Honduras and other parts of his background. How do you think Ambassador Negroponte handled those questions, Senator Roberts?
ROBERTS: Well, I think he handled them very well. This happened 25 years ago. All of that has been discussed in various committees in the Senate, more especially the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He was approved unanimously for the top spot at the U.N., and then to be our first ambassador to Iraq in Baghdad. Basically, I think he handled it very well. He answered all the questions that I was concerned about. I'm not trying to denigrate concern on the part of some senators, but I think that is history, and I think he'll be confirmed.
PILGRIM: You know, you both have been very critical of the intelligence failure of 9/11 and the collection of evidence on Iraq. Senator Roberts, I'm struck, you called them "Oh my God, how did it happen hearings." With the new head of the CIA, the new director of national intelligence, do you think that we have the capacity to move forward and not have these types of hearings again? Or do you think that we may stumble forward and make mistakes again?
ROBERTS: Well, Kitty, I think you're going to find a situation that, you know, terrorism will not be the last threat that, you know, faces the United States. And you are always going to have threats.
On the "oh my God hearings," basically in the past, what we have said is "oh my God, how did this happen? Let's try to fix it." Both Jay and I have determined that our committee needs to be and will be, after our WMD inquiry, much more proactive, much more preemptive. We want to get at the intelligence that we need to really watch our adversaries and to get the best advice to our policy makers -- the president, the National Security Council, the Congress, others -- and make sure that we have the capability to do what the intelligence community is saying.
So I think you're going to see a much more active Intelligence Committee, and we need the help of the DNI. We need his suggestions and his advice as we go through this. Some of us worry that he does not have enough authority to really handle the responsibilities that we gave him in the intelligence reform bill. He's very much aware of that. I look for a very strong and cooperative effort.
PILGRIM: Senator Rockefeller, do you think he'll get the support he needs?
ROCKEFELLER: I do. I think what has happened, Kitty, is that since 9/11, it's like not just the whole world is turned upside down, but the whole way that one approaches intelligence and coordination, cooperation between not only our own agencies but between countries, has changed dramatically. The world is now defined in different terms.
And I think what Pat and I are saying is that it takes a very strong, self-confident leader to do the United States' part of that, which is to bring all of our agencies together. And he'll have that power. He may not have all the powers he needs yet, but his -- the own -- his own force of personality, I think, will fill out a lot of those gaps, just by his own executive action, backed up by the president's backing. It's going to be very, very important, particularly in the first couple of disputes that he might have, let's say, with the Department of Defense.
But I think he'll get that backing, because he's a real pro. I mean, there are very few people I've met who have the experience and the savvy and the calmness that he does have.
ROBERTS: What the vice chairman just pointed out is very important, because of what the president has said, and President Bush has indicated he is my top man on intelligence. He's my point person. He does have control over the budget. He does have the authority. But both Jay and I know that, you know, presidents come and go. And as far as that goes, so do members of Congress. So if there are certain things we need to legislate, we're going to ask his advice and counsel first; we will certainly take that into consideration.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much for joining us this evening, Senator Roberts and Senator Rockefeller. Thank you, gentlemen.
ROBERTS: We thank you.
PILGRIM: Coming up at the top of the hour on "ANDERSON COOPER 360," a special report on the Navy's use of sonar and how that could be killing dolphins. Anderson Cooper is here now with a preview of that -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Hey, good evening, Kitty. Yeah, in about 13 minutes here on 360, dozens of dolphins stranding themselves off the Florida coast. Now, some scientists blame Navy sonar. We're going to take a closer look at the technology. Plus, we take you in the water as rescue workers race against time to save these dolphins.
Also tonight, a nationwide manhunt for a dangerous ex-con comes to an end. Find out how a smooth-talking felon managed to build trust and make friends in a small town. All that, more, coming up at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: We'll look forward to it, Anderson. Thanks a lot.
Internet geeks, auto mechanics, soccer moms are all playing an important role in the U.S. strategy to win the war on terror. And my guest tells us why when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: My guest tonight says lessons learned from fighting the Cold War can help us fight the War on Terrorism. He says the most important way to win the war is having the right strategy. But he also says it's critical for Americans to have confidence in that strategy. He is co-author of a new book, it's called "Winning the Long War: Lessons from the Cold War for Defeating Terrorism and Preserving Freedom."
Joining me from Washington is James Jay Carafano, senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Always nice to see you, Jim.
JAMES JAY CARAFANO, AUTHOR "WINNING THE LONG WAR": Good to be with you.
PILGRIM: One of the key things about this book -- you talk about the length of this war on terror. Do you think America is really prepared for this?
CARAFANO: Well, I do if we get the strategy right. What we did in the book was ask one really simple question, which is, how do you win a long war? And there've been lots of long wars through history. Typically what happens is, as countries get desperate to win, they try to generate more power by pulling authority to the center, raising taxation, suppressing civil liberties, just to get enough power to win. And, actually what happens, is they wind up becoming less flexible, less powerful, which is why, at the end of long wars, typically both sides are prostrate.
Really, very few exceptions to that. One of them is Cold War, where the United States comes out at the end of the war more strong, more vibrant, more powerful -- the Constitution is still in place. And so we just asked ourselves, how did we do that? And what can we learn from that to fight the war on terrorism?
PILGRIM: And how are we doing so far?
CARAFANO: You know, in some areas, not bad. We talked about four key elements of the strategy: security, offense and defense, promoting economic growth -- very important because that's what enables the countries to sustain over the long term -- protecting civil liberties and privacy, and winning the war of ideas. All of them have to be done. We are doing pretty good on the security front. We think we're doing very, very well on the civil liberties front. Where we really are concerned about is having the economic growth to really sustain the long war, not because of defense spending and homeland security spending, but because of long-term economic problems in the United States and winning the struggle of ideas which we think we are not well-organized to do.
PILGRIM: It's very hard to tie all those elements in. Let me just raise one question -- and you point out that Osama bin Laden occasionally pops up on tape. How does that play into the whole strategy in the war of ideas and the psychology of this war on terror?
CARAFANO: Well, that's very interesting. There've been a lot of bin Laden sightings over the last couple of years. Part of that you might argue is because we've been so successful in the security side that there's kind of not much else he can do right now.
What al Qaeda is really focused on is recruiting, they focus on trying to do fund raising, really to try to get back in the game and do attacks where they can reach. They reached Europe, they've done things in Iraq, they've tried to do things in the United States, just to demonstrate they are in the game. Failing that, what bin Laden is trying to do is get people out there to convince them that he's still in the fight. And it just goes to show that you don't win the war until you win the war in the minds of men.
PILGRIM: You know, one of the things we told our audience was that you take this down to the level of soccer moms and Internet geeks and average citizens. What do you mean by that? Why is that so important?
CARAFANO: In large part, the reason why we won the Cold War -- once we got through the early years of the Cold War, after -- when the Korean War broke out, that really brought the Cold War home to Main Street. Americans really started to think, this could really affect my life. And then, what they really saw is, I mean, there were tough times, but Americans really -- by the '60s -- really had a feeling the nation was going to pull through.
Certainly in the '80s and the Reagan era there was enormous confidence, so -- but that was because, at a fundamental level, Americans just believed there might be good times and bad times, but that the nation was going to pull through. And that's kind of what we need here. People need to understand the basics of what the country is trying to do, not that they are going to be protected from every terrorist attack, and not that there are never going to be bad days in our history, but to have the courage and confidence that their government is actually doing the right thing, and that they will win in the long term.
PILGRIM: Really quickly, it's been a good bit of time since September 11th. We have successfully managed to not have another terrorist attack. Do you think it's losing the urgency in the American mindset?
CARAFANO: Well, you know, the distance between attacks is interesting but irrelevant. Took five years to plan 9/11. Took three years to plan the Madrid bombings. The fact is, that's not a good metric to measure success. You do need the government to be out there and doing the right thing. You do need the American people to have confidence in that.
We won the Cold War in 1947. We won the Cold War the day it started because we did the right things. We put the right strategy in place, we said we weren't going to change who we are, we're going to keep the Constitution. We were going to do what had to get done, and we were going to make the world a better place.
I think we won this long war on September 12 because we decided that America was going to do the same kind of things. As long as Americans have confidence and we do that, this nation will prevail.
PILGRIM: Thank you so much for being with us and pointing that out. James Carafano.
CARAFANO: Thanks, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Up next, one lawmaker in West Virginia is upset over a bill he voted for.
Plus the results of tonight's poll. So, look at your thoughts when we continue. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIMS: Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Kris in San Antonio, Texas, writes, "The Minuteman Project, surprisingly enough, has been the only thing that has brought me any sense of peace. After months of writing my elected officials I feel a whole lot better supporting this project and saving my breath."
Sharon Bach in North Carolina writes, "I asked a retired CEO of a major corporation, 'If all the jobs are going to Mexico, why are the Mexicans still coming here?' With a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'They aren't coming for the jobs, they're coming for the benefits.'"
Well, we do love hearing from you. Send us our thoughts at LouDobbs@CNN.com, and each of you whose e-mail is read on the broadcast will receive a copy of Lou's book, which is called "Exporting America."
Also, if you would like to receive our e-mail newsletter, sign up at our website at LouDobbs.com.
Well, as we reported, Arizona has a proposal to make English its official language, and tonight, state lawmakers in West Virginia have unanimously approved a measure to do just that. But it turns out some lawmakers weren't even aware of the amendment. It was added on to a bill on parks and recreation issues, just before the end of the session. Well, the West Virginia judiciary chairman says it's wrong when such an amendment was snuck into the bill at the last minute. Well, one might think he would have read it before voting for it.
Let's give you the results of tonight's poll, and here they are: 99 percent of you say that American companies should not be allowed to export your personal information to foreign countries without your consent -- that seems pretty reasonable; 1 percent say they should be allowed.
Well, thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. Congress holds a hearing on immigration and the alien gang epidemic in this country. The chairman of the House Immigration Subcommittee will join us.
Also, tomorrow, the Mexican Army is helping illegal aliens who are trying to cross our border with Mexico. And, also we will face off against a leading congressman over controversial Mexican I.D. cards used in this country.
For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.
END
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