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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush to Hold Primetime News Conference; Plummeting Polls; New Iraqi Government; Securing U.S. Ports
Aired April 28, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. In two hours from now, President Bush will hold his first primetime news conference in a year. President Bush will address the nation as he faces declining personal approval ratings and plummeting support for his so- called Social Security reforms. Social Security is likely to be one of the main subjects of the president's news conference tonight.
In a moment, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, will report on the latest presidential poll numbers. But we begin with Suzanne Malveaux at the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, just to underscore how important this is for the White House to get forward its message on Social Security reform and energy legislation, the press conference was actually moved up by a half-hour in negotiations with several television networks to make sure that they would actually take the president's news conference live. It certainly underscores the importance of the message that he has been delivering.
It has been some 60 days and 60 stops, a campaign that was launched. The president selling his Social Security plan to allow younger retirees to create those private investment accounts, and it has been a very tough sell for the president.
His approval ratings even taking a dip in the recent weeks. The latest "Washington Post"- ABC poll showing overall job approval, 47 percent approve of the job he's doing. Fifty percent disapprove. That is an all-time low for the president for his second term. Also, of course, another top issue that he is going to be dealing with, that is his energy legislation.
The bottom line, the president wants to convince Americans that he is concerned just like they are with the soaring gas prices despite the fact there is very little that can do about it. He has a proposed energy plan that has languished in Congress for the last four years.
It was just yesterday he made a new announcement saying they would try to create these refineries on closed military bases. It is still questionable whether or not that is going to come to fruition.
And finally, of course, it was just days ago that he met in Crawford with the Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah to ask him to boost their crude oil production. The Saudi Crown Prince saying he would make a long-term commitment over the next 10 years, but certainly not a short-term commitment that will make any difference when it comes to gas prices. So, clearly, Lou, the president trying to put forward to the American people, in some ways getting around members of Congress, that he is, yes, concerned about gas prices, and that he also wants to do something about Social Security despite the fact that many polls show that Americans just aren't buying it -- Lou.
DOBBS: Any suggestion from the White House staff that the press conference tonight, the news conference is motivated in large measure by these declining poll numbers?
MALVEAUX: Well, they're certainly aware of those poll numbers. They like to play them down. But they clearly see that the 60-day period, it's basically expiring on Sunday.
And the polls show that there are not a lot of Americans, at least not the majority of Americans, that are buying into this plan. They say they are going from phase one, educating the people, to phase two, talking about solutions. But it's very clear, Lou, that they feel they need more time for this president and this administration to make its case.
DOBBS: Suzanne Malveaux. Thank you from the White House.
The latest opinion poll says Iraq and Social Security are the issues that most Americans would like President Bush to discuss this evening. The Gallup poll is only one of several recent surveys that highlight the president's failure to sell Social Security reform.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider now has our report.
Bill, just how bad are these poll numbers for the president's Social Security proposals?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, in January the numbers started out bad, and then they got worse as the president entered his 60-day tour around the country to sell his ideas.
Fifty-five percent said they disapproved of the way the president was handling Social Security back in January. The latest figures from the "Washington Post"-ABC News poll, 64 percent, better than two to one, say they disapprove of the president's handling of Social Security.
We've also seen this sense of a crisis in Social security going down, particularly with the stock market numbers. That's not helped the president make his case.
One question "The Post" asked is, "would you support or oppose a plan in which people who choose to could cover -- could invest, rather, some of their Social Security contributions in the stock market? Now, it's been consistent since 2000 most Americans think that's a good idea if you do not mention possible reductions in Social Security benefits. But this month for the first time most Americans say they would oppose any kind of personal or private investment account. DOBBS: And Bill, within that, is there a suggestion -- because one of the things that we know on this broadcast, our audience is very, very smart. No reform of Social Security without reducing benefits or without raising taxes and/or extending the point at which one becomes eligible for those benefits, reduced or otherwise.
What part is that playing? Because there's very little discussion of this in this campaign by the president, or in terms of the utterings by members of Congress.
SCHNEIDER: Americans have gotten the message that any kind of private or personal investment account would involve most likely a reduction in guaranteed benefits. Americans see Social Security as an insurance policy. Any mention of reducing guaranteed benefits automatically literally turns Americans off and you see a huge reaction against that.
They want Social Security to be there with a guaranteed benefit as an insurance policy. And they have gotten the message that this would be endangered by these investment accounts.
DOBBS: And, of course, they are being faithful, if others are not, to the original purpose and promise of Social Security.
SCHNEIDER: Yes.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill Schneider, for your analysis.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: One other huge concern for the White House is the rising public anxiety about the state and strength of our economy. New economic growth figures for the first three months of this year show our economy growing at the slowest rate in two years. The government said the growth rate was 3.1 percent.
One reason, slower spending by consumers and higher inventories on the part of businesses. But another principal reason, the huge influx of imports into this country.
Imports rising twice as fast as U.S. exports. As a result, our trade deficit has exploded. It is literally choking our economic growth in this now $12 trillion economy.
Without a trade deficit, our growth rate would have been 4.6 percent, 50 percent higher than the actual growth rate. It's also a clear indication of the extremely high cost of so-called free trade.
This network will have live coverage tonight of the president's news conference. Our special programming begins at 7:30 p.m. Eastern, 4:30 p.m. Pacific. Paula Zahn and Wolf Blitzer will be anchoring.
President Bush today congratulated Iraq's leaders after they ended months of political deadlock and chose a new government. But several key cabinet positions remain unfilled largely because negotiators have failed to reach a final agreement on the division of responsibilities.
Ryan Chilcote reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three months after national elections, members of Iraq's National Assembly finally raised their hands and approved a government. But it's only a partial cabinet.
The country's prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, was expected to announce the names of all of his cabinet ministers, but moments before the vote said he was unable to decide on seven of the 36 posts. He says he hopes to fill those jobs soon. Until then, he and his deputies will occupy them.
Among the vacancies, the top jobs in the all-important defense and oil ministries. Navigating Iraq's numerous ethnic and religious (INAUDIBLE), the prime minister included Shiites from his own constituency, Kurds, Christian, Turkmen, and importantly Sunni Arabs. Sunni Arabs enjoyed most of the power under Saddam, but by and large stayed away from the polls after Saddam's fall.
In a sign of the challenges ahead of this government, moments before the vote a tribute to a member of the National Assembly assassinated Wednesday. Iraqis expect the new government to reign that violence in. but the government is already warning it can't deliver miracles.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The United States now faces as well a serious crisis that is worsening on the other side of our southern border in Mexico. President Vicente Fox now appears to have backed down for -- at least now in a confrontation with the mayor of Mexico City. But that confrontation has raised troubling questions about political instability and corruption in Mexico.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The public pressure was building as hundreds of thousands of people marched through Mexico City in support of Mexico Mayor Lopez Obrador, what they call a silent protest. Experts say in the face of such demonstrations Mexican President Vicente Fox was forced to make a conciliatory gesture.
That came today. Vicente Fox announced his attorney general would resign who led the effort to prosecute the Mexico mayor. The thinking was Obrador's legal problems would keep him from running in next year's presidential election. ALLYSON BENTON, EURASIA GROUP: I do believe that the government felt that the -- taking Lopez Obrador out of the race, or at least going through with a trial and weakening his public credibility, that the government really felt that they could manage the situation, that they could come out looking clean, that Lopez Obrador would come out looking dirty.
PILGRIM: But if that was the plan, it backfired. Some 60 percent of Mexicans think the charges against Obrador were politically motivated. President Fox has fallen in the opinion polls since the political battle began.
GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: But in recent weeks he's been really receiving extremely negative publicity around the world, but especially in the United States because of what appears to be an authoritarian, high-handed and perhaps unconstitutional move to bar the most popular politician in the country from the 2006 presidential contest.
PILGRIM: Obrador now more than ever is seen as the frontrunner in the presidential elections of 2006. Mexico City's mayor made his reputation as a man of the people, promising to work for Mexico's poor if elected, already instituting measures to raise the plight of the less well off.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: President Fox was backpedaling today, saying, "As head of state my duty is to promote national unity." Well, it's clear that the Obrador incident damaged his party's reputation not just as home, Lou, but also in the international community.
DOBBS: Well, it is a stark reminder that Vicente Fox's government has failed to prosecute and bring to justice any of the political targets of the scandals of recent years whatsoever, and that this president is an abject failure in terms of his economic and political policies within Mexico.
PILGRIM: It's a very transparent political ploy what just happened. And everyone saw it for what it was.
DOBBS: And the next interesting phase will be where Lopez Obrador decides to go, and his newfound political freedom reinstated by the removal of the attorney general.
Thank you. Kitty Pilgrim.
Up next here, identity crisis. A shocking hole in our defenses against illegal aliens, and certainly the possibility of terrorists. Dozens of people have been arrested. We'll be telling you about that.
And port security. Is the federal government failing to protect critical parts of our national infrastructure? Two leading members of Congress will join us next to discuss their proposal to raise port security.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, it takes a lot to shock our viewers when it comes to the issue of illegal immigration. But tonight this story out of Florida may do just that.
Federal authorities have arrested 52 people in a scam to sell fake drivers' licenses to illegal aliens in Florida. Those licenses, to transport hazardous materials. Three of the people arrested work for Florida's Department of Motor Vehicles.
Casey Wian has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three Florida driver's license examiners are among the more than 50 people arrested in a scheme to provide commercial drivers' licenses to illegal aliens. Officers say the suspects were selling permits to drive fuel tankers, hazardous material trucks and other heavy machinery that could be used by terrorists for $100 to $200 a piece.
MARCO JIMENEZ, U.S. ATTORNEY, SO. FLORIDA: These cases are important because a driver's license is a bad guy's ticket in. It's a ticket into airports, seaports, to banking institutions, highways, into basically all areas of our society. And, of course, a commercial driver's license allows even more access to sensitive areas.
WIAN: Officers allege recruiters charged between $1,500 and $3,000 to connect illegal aliens with the state examiners, who would then falsely certify them as U.S. citizens.
JESUS TORRES, U.S. IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: They're a weak link. They can be coerced, they can be used, they can be bought to gain access to our critical infrastructure.
WIAN: Today's case is the latest example of government efforts to crack down on widespread document fraud by illegal aliens. Since February, ICE has arrested or helped prosecute criminals in 16 states for counterfeit drivers' licenses, visas or other immigration documents.
They include a scheme in Virginia to provide thousands of Indonesian illegal aliens with drivers' licenses and I.D. cards, an Indiana resident charged with using false identities to help spy for Saddam before U.S. forces invaded in 2003, two Louisiana men charged with offering to sell forged documents to members of the Philippine terrorist group Abu Sayyaf, and a Lebanese national in California charged with attempting to use fake immigration papers to help smuggle his countrymen through Mexico.
In the Florida case, ICE agents say there's no evidence any of those who bought bogus licenses has connections to terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WIAN: But in other recent fraudulent document cases, it's clear potential terrorists are trying to sneak into the United States. Another reminder that border security can't stop at the border -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And again, a reminder of how just important Congressman James Sensenbrenner's Real ID Bill really is to the welfare of the nation.
Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting.
We reported last night here on several police departments in California that are trying to reverse a longstanding policy preventing police officers and deputy sheriffs from enforcing our national immigration laws. Tonight, one Connecticut town where thousands of illegal aliens live has decided to try to change that policy. The mayor of Danbury, Connecticut, is now asking officials to deputize state police.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Danbury. Connecticut, ranked one of the best cities to live in the United States, is overwhelmed with an ever-increasing population of illegal ill yens.
MAYOR MARK BOUGHTON, DANBURY, CONNECTICUT: I think that Danbury provides a perfect storm, if you will, of a place for somebody to settle in. We have low unemployment rate, plenty of work. We have accessible housing stock.
TUCKER: Town officials estimate that the illegal population is roughly 15,000, or about 20 percent of the town.
BOUGHTON: And our school population has grown from about a thousand -- over a thousand students from 1997 to 2005. And that represents a significant increase and significant tax burden to our taxpayers.
TUCKER: And there are rising cultural clashes. This four- bedroom house, for example, is one of a dozen homes recently cited for illegal zoning, health, fire and building violations. It was bought by a group of illegal aliens who converted it into an eight-bedroom boarding house in a high-end residential neighborhood.
BOUGHTON: We guestimate that there were probably 12 to 14 people living in a home that's really designed for a family of roughly five or six people. And so that presents a tremendous distress on a neighborhood and tremendous pressure on our neighborhoods.
WIAN: The mayor has reached out to the state's governor, attorney general, commissioner of public safety, to Connecticut senators Dodd and Lieberman. He wants Connecticut State Police trained and authorized under federal law to detain people in immigration violations, saying for Danbury to tackle the problem alone is useless.
The state police say they are considering the request and will meet with the mayor soon. But so far he's all alone. He wants the federal government to wake up.
BOUGHTON: This is not an issue that's localized just to the border states. This problem is around every village and every city and every town in this country.
WIAN: There's another theme that's repeated over and over in Mayor Boughton's letters and in interview with us: this is not an immigration problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: This an illegal immigration problem. He notes with pride that there are 48 languages spoke in Danbury's high school.
And, Lou, this is not our first trip to Danbury. We were there about a year and a half ago. He was asking for help then. He's gotten none, and the problem has only gotten worse.
DOBBS: I love the response of the Connecticut State Police, we'll talk about it.
WIAN: We'll have a meeting.
DOBBS: Unbelievable. If our political leaders this country do not wake up, it's going to be a crime. A crime of failure to represent the citizens of this country.
Bill Tucker, thank you, sir.
Coming up next, the congressional battle over President Bush's judicial nominees. We'll have a special report for you on one California judge who is at the center of that fight.
And then, god and politics, why one of the country's most prominent Republicans says Christian conservatives have taken over his party.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senate Majority Leader Senator Bill Frist is standing firm against filibusters of the president's judicial nominees. And he is now proposing limiting debate on judicial nominees to 100 hours. His plan is an alternative to the so-called nuclear option that Republicans have considered in order to nullify those Democratic filibusters.
Minority leader Senator Harry Reid said Democrats will consider the Frist proposal, but for now Senator Reid says it looks like "a big wet kiss to the far right." One of the judicial nominations that Democrats have filibustered is that of California Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown. President Bush has nominated her to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. But Justice Brown's rulings on several controversial issues have effectively stalled her nomination for two years.
Judy Woodruff reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): May 24, 2003, commencement day at Catholic Universities Columbus School of Law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our honoree knows what it is like to be denied opportunity, but She has never believed herself to be a victim.
WOODRUFF: There she was, California's Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown. A sharecroppers daughter who grew up in segregated Alabama. A one-time single mother who worked her way through college and law school. Her message to the graduates that day, stay true to your faith.
JANICE ROGERS BROWN, CALIFORNIA SUPREME COURT: For what we ultimately pursue is a true vision of justice and ordered liberty, respectful of human dignity and the authority of God.
WOODRUFF: The White House was watching. And two months later, President Bush nominated Justice Brown to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. A seat often viewed as a stepping stone to the Supreme Court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You swear that the testimony you're about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
WOODRUFF: But since 2003, Justice Brown's nomination has been stalled in the Senate.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER, (D) JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: There's a lot in your record that troubles me. And I think you have got a rough road to hoe, at least on this side of the aisle.
WOODRUFF: Democrats brand her a radical extremist, far out of the mainstream. They point to her views on abortion rights and some of her more outspoken speeches.
"Where government moves in," she once said, "community retreats, civil society disintegrate, and ability to control our own destiny atrophies." She called the New Deal the triumph of our socialist revolution. Justice Brown doesn't shy away from those statements.
JANICE ROGERS BROWN, CALIFORNIA SUPREME COURT: A judge is not some kind of automaton, or computer. You know, a judge is a thinking human being.
WOODRUFF: She insists that, on the bench, the Constitution is her guide.
BROWN: When you make a decision, your decision has to be on the law and the facts in an individual case. WOODRUFF: Republicans say Justice Brown is this year's Clarence Thomas, that Democrats just can't accept African-American conservatives.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: The Democrats are claiming anyone who is conservative, who is a person of color, who is pro-life, is outside of the mainstream of American jurisprudence.
WOODRUFF: Some liberals accept the Thomas comparison, but in a negative way.
JULIAN BOND, NAACP CHAIRMAN: Janice Rogers Brown's nomination validates the worst fears of the most severe critics of affirmative action, the fear that an unqualified minority will be nominated solely because of her race.
WOODRUFF: Judy Woodruff, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Now that is a tough battle and tough words.
Coming up next, god and politics. One former Republican senator will be here to tell us why he says his party has become the political arm of Christian conservatives.
And then, securing your future, President Bush's so-called Social Security reform is based on a program that has largely produced mixed results in another country. We'll have that story for you.
And homeland insecurity. Two members of Congress join us to tell us why they are taking action to secure our nation's vulnerable seaports.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a moment, one of the country's most prominent Republicans who says his party has its priorities all wrong.
Here are some of the other important stories we're covering tonight.
Police in Britain have arrested a student pilot who prompted a terrorism alert in this country. The pilot took flight lessons at a Georgia airport. Authorities issued a terror alert after he tried to have his pilot rating upgraded to fly commercial aircraft even though he is not qualified to do so.
The Florida Supreme Court tonight is refusing to hear an appeal from Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh claims his privacy was invaded when investigators seized his medical records. That investigation looked at his alleged purchase of painkillers. And a severe and fast-moving rainstorm dumping more than an inch of rain in parts of southern California. The storm knocking down trees, causing approximately 60 accidents, including this truck which jackknifed.
Nearly 28 inches of rain have now fallen in that area this year. This is only now one inch short of the all-time record for rainfall set more than 120 years ago.
My guest tonight is a highly regarded Republican who says his party has abandoned its founding principles. Instead, former Senator John Danforth says the Republican Party has become the political arm of conservative Christians.
Senator Danforth, also a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, wrote a recent op-ed in "The New York Times" which said, "As a senator, I worried every day about the size of the federal deficit. I did not spend a single minute worrying about the affect of gays on the institution of marriage. Today it seems to be the other way around."
Senator Danforth most recently served, as I said, as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. He is also, by the way, an Episcopal minister and joining us tonight from St. Louis.
Good to have you with us.
JOHN DANFORTH, FMR. U.S. SENATOR: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me turn to the issue that you raise with that one comment, not worrying about the impact of gays on the institution of marriage and worrying more about the federal deficit. At large, how far do you believe the party has moved from you philosophically, from when you were serving specifically in the U.S. Senate.
DANFORTH: I think the basics of Republican philosophy are the same as when was in the Senate, that is we tend to be physical conservatives. We tend to be concerned about the federal deficit. We want to keep taxes low. We want to keep the burden of federal regulations light. We believe in engaged foreign policy. We believe that the courts should be in the business of interpreting the law, not making it. These are standard beliefs of all Republicans, virtually.
But I think what's happened in very recent times there's become this religious bent to the Republican Party where we've gotten into an agenda items for religious conservatives. And I think that that's a mistake. I think basically the separation of church and state is served our country very well for more than 200 years. And we should honor that. And we're venturing from that.
DOBBS: It's a fundamental tenant, a fundamental tradition of this country and required by the constitution, in point of fact. But the idea that evangelical Christians, the far right in some instances, certainly, have taken control of the Republican Party or producing a terrific influence within it, how is that come to be in your judgment? DANFORTH: Well, I think that some of the churches have become very well organized politically which is their right to do. I mean I don't -- I don't deny them that at all. I think that all people should be involved in politics.
But I think a lot of Republicans have viewed this as a whole new basis of political support. Some people who have not traditionally been Republicans now are supporting the Republican Party, so they think that this is something of a bonanza for our party.
But the problem is that it points us in a direction which I don't think is good for the country. And as a matter of fact in the long run I don't think it's good for the Republican Party, either.
DOBBS: Let me pose this to you. The Democrats for -- as a matter of history have appealed to black churches, to bring out the black vote in this country as you well know. Jews in this country, either through the synagogue or through their communities, have supported Democratic candidates and have made their views on religious grounds well known. Protestants in the south have always, until the last 40 years, aligned themselves with Democrats.
There is a great tradition in the country as well, though, for the involvement of religions and politics. How do you -- how do you separate those and weigh them?
DANFORTH: Well, there's a tradition that goes back to Biblical times, ever since Moses confronted Pharaoh of religious people confronting government, weighing in with government. It's a basic right of all Americans. It's certainly a right of religious people. It's a right of people who are involved with churches to be active participants in politics, they should be. I happen to be one of them.
I think the problem is not so much from the side of religion, but from the side of the politicians. It's when politicians present themselves as essentially the extension of a sectarian point of view that we get into trouble. I mean, it's one thing for politicians to weigh the input of religious people, but it's quite another thing to basically take an entire agenda and try to put it in legislative form.
And you know, a number of examples that I could give you but I think...
DOBBS: Please do.
DANFORTH: Yes. Well one example I think would be the Terri Schiavo case. Which there is a case where standard Republican views of deferring to states, of certainly not putting the federal courts and the business of trumping state courts, of not having some special sense of wisdom located in Congress and Washington, those traditional Republican positions were shoved aside because there was at least an apparent push from religious groups to -- for Congress to involve itself in that sad case of Terri Schiavo. That would be one example.
I think another example would be the move to amend the constitution with respect to gay marriage. Now, you can be for or against gay marriage. I think marriage is between a man and a woman myself, but to amend the constitution is a little bit far out. But it is taking on a religious agenda. And it's something that's unique to the Republican Party.
DOBBS: Jack Danforth, we are out of time. Senator Danforth, Ambassador Danforth, it's good to have you with us. And, if you will, convey my best to your lovely wife.
DANFORTH: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Thank you.
President Bush will begin his primetime news conference in about an hour and a half. The president will give a short statement promoting his plan to privatize part of Social Security. The proposal is based on a model set by Chile more than two decades ago. It is a plan that has divided the people of Chile ever since.
Lucia Newman reports from Santiago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dagoberto Sias (ph) has worked as a laboratory technician at the University of Chile's medical school for 37 years. But, now that he's about to retire under Chile's private pension system, he's in despair.
I realize I've been hoodwinked. And that my income will be reduced to a third. It's terrible to tell your wife that we have to rent our house and move to a more humble place to survive.
Gallo Ramiros (ph), a former hospital management executive who lives in an upper class neighborhood worked just as many years as Dagoberto (ph), but is thrilled with the generous pension he gets from his private retirement fund.
I'm very happy, because this system of capital investment has meant I get a much higher return than under the old system, he says.
Why the radically different experiences? Because in the country that pioneered privatized Social Security and inspired President George Bush to try to do the same, a person's retirement ultimately depends on how much money he or she can invest. And the less you make, the less you can afford to save for retirement.
In 1981, Chile privatized its Social Security, arguing just like President Bush does today, that keeping the pay as you go system will bankrupt it.
(on camera): 25 years later, Chile's government is still forking out millions above the normal Social Security payments to subsidize low income earners who haven't paid in enough over a mandatory 20-year period. Yet many, especially women, who often leave the work force to have children, don't even meet the minimum requirement needed to qualify for any payment. And so are left uncovered. (voice-over): Differences in population and economies make comparisons difficult. But many of Chile's problems, such as the high management fees that pension funds charge that reduce payouts should concern those who want to copy the system.
GUILLERMO LARRAIN, SUPERINTENDENT, PENSION FUNDS: We want a very stable part of the package to be sent next year to Congress. It's a reform that will allow to have more competition and then lower prices for the consumer.
NEWMAN: The man who oversees the private pension fund says it is still a work if progress. But after nearly 25 years, Chile's pension reform still needs to be reformed. Too late for Dagoberto (ph) who went back to school to learn podiatry just to make his retirement ends meet.
Lucia Newman, CNN, Santiago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll, "do you believe President Bush has already lost the battle for so-called Social Security reforms? Yes or no." Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up.
Next here, homeland insecurity: Two members of Congress will tell us why our nation's ports remain far too vulnerable to terrorism.
And then, a new option for companies looking to save money on labor. It turns out they can do it without shipping those jobs oversees. We'll have our special report for you on that subject next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: U.S. ports remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks because of a lack of federal funding and attention, three-and-a-half years after September 11. Senator Susan Collins of Maine and Congresswoman Jane Harman of California have introduced bipartisan legislation to raise port security funding and to improve port security. Senator Collins and Congresswoman Harman, today, told me, earlier, why their legislation is critical to our national security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JANE HARMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: We're spending too little, period, on homeland security, but $9 out of $10 go to airport security, and the $1 goes to port security, and I totally agree with Suzanne Collins that, if I were an al Qaeda plotting to harm the U.S., hitting one of our major ports, like the port of Los Angeles, which is surrounded by my congressional district -- which we both visited about a month ago or two months ago -- would be where I would go.
One trillion dollars -- with a T -- is the value of -- annual value -- of our trade: 95 percent of trade goes through ports, 43 percent of the containers that enter and exit the United States go through the ports of L.A. and Long Beach. And if you hit that, you really interrupt U.S. commerce, you kill a lot of people on the port and around the port, and it's an unmistakable message.
DOBBS: Both of you, obviously well-versed and knowledgeable on the issue of security, post-9/11, and the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. How is it, Senator, Congresswoman, that this country can be in this shape, this vulnerable, specifically with the ports, three- and-a-half years after 9/11?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: Well, we have made some progress and I don't want to minimize that, but I think there's a tendency to always focus on the last threat. When there was the attack using airliners, then we focused on commercial aviation. That is not the way our approach should be. We should do a careful assessment to identify our vulnerabilities and then address the funding to help make us safer, and by any assessment, the possibility that a container coming into this country could be used to smug either al Qaeda terrorists themselves -- we know they have been used to smuggle in Chinese illegal immigrants -- or whether it would be used to smuggle the makings of a dirty bomb, our ports are at tremendous risk.
HARMAN: And, let me just add to that -- strategy, strategy, strategy. The point of forming the Homeland Security Department, which we both strongly supported -- and we both think that the new secretary, Michael Chertoff, will be very successful there -- was to create a strategy, an integrated national strategy for homeland security. Three years later, we still don't have that. We have the squeaky wheel theory of homeland security, and airports are squeaking loudest.
What we need now, and what our bill would do, would be, require the identification of ports at most risk, and then link them to a dedicated funding stream from customs revenues, so that the money would definitely be there and it wouldn't be moved elsewhere.
But the point is, that we will interrupt commerce totally in the United States of America and harm thousands, if not millions, of people if we don't get our act together.
DOBBS: And, Senator, in conclusion, obviously a bipartisan effort between you and the Congresswoman. What is the likelihood of prompt action and approval in Congress?
COLLINS: Well, as you point out, this is a bipartisan, bicameral effort and I think that increases the chances for success. I believe there's a growing realization among members of Congress that our ports remain one of the biggest vulnerabilities that we have, and if we're going to address this, we're going to make our nation safer, we have to face the fact that we need a dedicated stream of revenues that will support multi-year improvements in security. The Coast Guard has said we should be spending $7.3 billion on port security over the next decade. We're starting down the path of providing the funding that's needed, and I'm hopeful that we will be successful.
HARMAN: And, if I just might add, last night at 11:00 p.m., the House Homeland Security Committee, on which I'm a member, reported a $34 billion annual authorization bill on a unanimous basis. That's a good start, a rare example of bipartisanship in the House, and we need this.
DOBBS: A member, and, point of fact, a ranking member, thank you very much.
Congresswoman Harman, Senator Collins, thank you both, very much.
HARMAN: Thank you, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And, coming up, at the top of the hour, here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Anderson, with a preview -- Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much.
Coming up at the top of the hour, "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh joins us to talk about the hunt to rescue a victim of child porn.
Also tonight, are your late-night habits hurting your health? Find out why staying up late may be bringing you down during the day, part of our special series of "Sleepless in America." That, and more, in about 14 minutes. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Anderson, looking forward to it.
Now, our SPECIAL REPORT on the shipment of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets, "Exporting America." Tonight, a company that's betting U.S. businesses will send jobs to Arkansas rather than those cheap foreign labor markets.
Lisa Sylvester has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jonesboro, Arkansas, may not seem like a mecca for high-tech programmers, but Kathy Brittain White, the founder of Rural Sourcing and an Arkansas native, hopes to change that.
KATHY BRITTAIN WHITE, PRES. RURAL SOURCING: It's a huge talent base that is going unutilized. There are over a thousand different universities that are located in what we think of as nonmetro areas. Most of those students when they graduate if they want to work in their major they have to leave the area.
SYLVESTER: By next month the firm will have 50 employees offering computer programming in rural Arkansas and North Carolina, a low-cost alternative for companies that don't want to move overseas. Salaries are lower than in large metro areas, but so is the cost of living.
BEN TRACY, PROGRAMMER ANALYST, RURAL SOURCING: The wages are extremely competitive, and there's only a handful of companies even hiring I.T. jobs in Jonesboro. So, this is a pretty big deal for Jonesboro and basically for Arkansas.
SYLVESTER: Many U.S. companies that have sent I.T. work to India have been disappointed with the result. Having the work done closer to home is an advantage for Rural Sourcing.
STEPHANIE MOORE, FORRESTER RESEARCH: The advantages are that, natively, we all speak the same language, you are most likely going to be in a similar time zone, one or two hours apart, instead of nine- and-a-half or 12 hours apart. So, those are the real benefits. I think that's why companies are sort of desperately looking for solutions that are located in the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: That means Rural Sourcing could win big by not following the offshoring trend. One concern raised is whether Rural Sourcing can find enough qualified I.T. workers in rural America, and to that, the company's president says, a lot of the talented I.T. employees who end up working in the large cities came from rural and middle America, but they had to leave because of the lack of opportunities. Lou?
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much for that hopeful story. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Our "Quote of the Day" comes from the commissioner of the National Football League, Paul Tagliabue. Tagliabue was testifying before a House committee looking at the NFL steroid policy. He defended the league's policy and he blasted suggestions that an international body be allowed to set standards and punishment for steroid use in pro-football. He said, and we think it is worthy of quotation -- "I happen to believe that Americans can solve America's problems just as well as anybody else in the world. When we apply our minds to it, we can be the best in the world. If we're going to start outsourcing or offshoring our drug problems, then we're in trouble."
Commissioner, I hate to say it, but we're already in trouble.
Why our military may not be able to afford weapons to fight another war: General David Grange will be here, "On Point," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld yesterday declared the Pentagon will take a hard look at the soaring costs of new weapon systems. The Government Accountability Office says the cost of top five weapons programs has risen from 281 billion to 521 billion in just four years. And that's raising concerns our military won't be able to afford the weapons it needs.
Joining me now, General David Grange. Good to have you with us, Dave.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's take as an example the joint strike fighter program. That's going to be 250 -- an estimated $256 billion. Does that make sense to you? Is it the right place for that much money?
GRANGE: Well, the joint fighter -- for jointness between the services of armed forces, that's great. For commonality and friendly nations, it's great. But it is very expensive and it shouldn't be at the cost of many other central items.
DOBBS: What, there are 2,400 of these fighters to be purchased by the Pentagon and the eight partner nations that you mentioned. Do we really need 2,400 of them?
GRANGE: Well, I don't think now, but maybe in the future of some type of peer competitive, we will. The question is can our -- the allies that are buying these with the United States even afford them, let alone us? I don't think so.
DOBBS: And the DDX, the Navy's newest destroyer, the price on that is 6.3 billion. The Navy wanted 24 of them, and now says they can only afford five of them. Either they need them or they don't. What's going on?
GRANGE: Well, I think five is better than none. And five at least gives a nucleus for that modernized fleet to enhance the rest of the Navy. And so if they can afford the five, it's prudent to do that, again, for some type of future fight.
DOBBS: It's weird looking at this. I mean, Secretary Rumsfeld is saying things like -- which I find interesting and intriguing -- rationalizing, if you will, or strategizing further that we didn't need 300,000 troops in Iraq, because in his judgment, that would have certainly provided more targets for the enemy, which is one of the most robustly ironic and I think interesting statements I have heard on the theory of warfare in a long time. But at the same time, he's got a budget that is tremendous and is limited at the same time. What should be the priorities for Donald Rumsfeld, for the U.S. Pentagon, the U.S. military?
GRANGE: Well, Lou, right now we're in a period of time very similar after Vietnam. In other words, during President Reagan's military build-up time, if that did not happen, if those massive programs were not put in place, we'd be hurting today in the conflicts that we face.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
GRANGE: But the priorities ought to be, number one, personnel. That's the most important resource. You can't short-change pay and care for troops. And that includes veterans.
Number two, maintenance. The equipment has been ridden hard and put away wet. Massive maintenance must be done with the equipment on hand to prepare for the next fight.
And then number three is training readiness. That should never be degraded, because that's what keeps Americans alive and keeps the edge against the enemy. And lastly, modernization.
DOBBS: From General David Grange, pretty good counsel, as always. Thank you. Good to have you with us, Dave.
GRANGE: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, the results of our poll tonight; a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. And a discovery that researchers waited more than a year to announce. We'll have that story next here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of tonight's poll, and they are overwhelming. The question, do you believe President Bush has lost the battle already for so-called Social Security reform? Ninety-six percent of you say yes, he has.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts. Kee Barclay in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida wrote to say -- "The United Nations has progressed from an inept, anti-American debating society to a corrupt, inept, anti-American debating society, and has worn out its welcome in New York. And being in the real estate business, I would like to buy that building on the East River and turn it into condos."
Jim Rauch in Gainesville, wrote: "The only problem with Social Security is that Congress can't keep its hands off the money. For decades, they claimed there was a "surplus" in the "trust fund" and spent it. Now, the bill is about to come due, and they're looking for ways to weasel out.
Pamela Whitfield in Danville, California: "Our government behaves as if we are afraid to take action to close the border with Mexico and do it effectively. What could Mexico be holding over us? Encouraging drugs into the United States, helping terrorists? What is tipping the scales that allow lawmakers and law enforcers to give a blind eye to illegal entry into this country?"
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And if you want our e-mail newsletter, sign up at LouDobbs.com.
A fascinating discovery tonight for scientists, bird lovers and those who just like a good story. Researchers say a bird long thought to be extinct has now been spotted. The ivory-billed woodpecker has been seen in eastern Arkansas, and its image captured there on this video.
The discovery has been kept secret for more than a year, while scientists worked to protect the bird and its environment. The last confirmed sighting of the ivory-billed woodpecker in this country was in Louisiana in 1944.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Our special report, "Exporting America," how one lawmaker is fighting to stop corporations from exporting American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. And in our weekly salute to our men and women in uniform, in "Heroes," we'll have the inspiring story of one of the 82nd Airborne's finest, who has received a Silver Star for his bravery in Afghanistan.
For all of us here, thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much.
END
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Aired April 28, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. In two hours from now, President Bush will hold his first primetime news conference in a year. President Bush will address the nation as he faces declining personal approval ratings and plummeting support for his so- called Social Security reforms. Social Security is likely to be one of the main subjects of the president's news conference tonight.
In a moment, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, will report on the latest presidential poll numbers. But we begin with Suzanne Malveaux at the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, just to underscore how important this is for the White House to get forward its message on Social Security reform and energy legislation, the press conference was actually moved up by a half-hour in negotiations with several television networks to make sure that they would actually take the president's news conference live. It certainly underscores the importance of the message that he has been delivering.
It has been some 60 days and 60 stops, a campaign that was launched. The president selling his Social Security plan to allow younger retirees to create those private investment accounts, and it has been a very tough sell for the president.
His approval ratings even taking a dip in the recent weeks. The latest "Washington Post"- ABC poll showing overall job approval, 47 percent approve of the job he's doing. Fifty percent disapprove. That is an all-time low for the president for his second term. Also, of course, another top issue that he is going to be dealing with, that is his energy legislation.
The bottom line, the president wants to convince Americans that he is concerned just like they are with the soaring gas prices despite the fact there is very little that can do about it. He has a proposed energy plan that has languished in Congress for the last four years.
It was just yesterday he made a new announcement saying they would try to create these refineries on closed military bases. It is still questionable whether or not that is going to come to fruition.
And finally, of course, it was just days ago that he met in Crawford with the Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah to ask him to boost their crude oil production. The Saudi Crown Prince saying he would make a long-term commitment over the next 10 years, but certainly not a short-term commitment that will make any difference when it comes to gas prices. So, clearly, Lou, the president trying to put forward to the American people, in some ways getting around members of Congress, that he is, yes, concerned about gas prices, and that he also wants to do something about Social Security despite the fact that many polls show that Americans just aren't buying it -- Lou.
DOBBS: Any suggestion from the White House staff that the press conference tonight, the news conference is motivated in large measure by these declining poll numbers?
MALVEAUX: Well, they're certainly aware of those poll numbers. They like to play them down. But they clearly see that the 60-day period, it's basically expiring on Sunday.
And the polls show that there are not a lot of Americans, at least not the majority of Americans, that are buying into this plan. They say they are going from phase one, educating the people, to phase two, talking about solutions. But it's very clear, Lou, that they feel they need more time for this president and this administration to make its case.
DOBBS: Suzanne Malveaux. Thank you from the White House.
The latest opinion poll says Iraq and Social Security are the issues that most Americans would like President Bush to discuss this evening. The Gallup poll is only one of several recent surveys that highlight the president's failure to sell Social Security reform.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider now has our report.
Bill, just how bad are these poll numbers for the president's Social Security proposals?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lou, in January the numbers started out bad, and then they got worse as the president entered his 60-day tour around the country to sell his ideas.
Fifty-five percent said they disapproved of the way the president was handling Social Security back in January. The latest figures from the "Washington Post"-ABC News poll, 64 percent, better than two to one, say they disapprove of the president's handling of Social Security.
We've also seen this sense of a crisis in Social security going down, particularly with the stock market numbers. That's not helped the president make his case.
One question "The Post" asked is, "would you support or oppose a plan in which people who choose to could cover -- could invest, rather, some of their Social Security contributions in the stock market? Now, it's been consistent since 2000 most Americans think that's a good idea if you do not mention possible reductions in Social Security benefits. But this month for the first time most Americans say they would oppose any kind of personal or private investment account. DOBBS: And Bill, within that, is there a suggestion -- because one of the things that we know on this broadcast, our audience is very, very smart. No reform of Social Security without reducing benefits or without raising taxes and/or extending the point at which one becomes eligible for those benefits, reduced or otherwise.
What part is that playing? Because there's very little discussion of this in this campaign by the president, or in terms of the utterings by members of Congress.
SCHNEIDER: Americans have gotten the message that any kind of private or personal investment account would involve most likely a reduction in guaranteed benefits. Americans see Social Security as an insurance policy. Any mention of reducing guaranteed benefits automatically literally turns Americans off and you see a huge reaction against that.
They want Social Security to be there with a guaranteed benefit as an insurance policy. And they have gotten the message that this would be endangered by these investment accounts.
DOBBS: And, of course, they are being faithful, if others are not, to the original purpose and promise of Social Security.
SCHNEIDER: Yes.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill Schneider, for your analysis.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: One other huge concern for the White House is the rising public anxiety about the state and strength of our economy. New economic growth figures for the first three months of this year show our economy growing at the slowest rate in two years. The government said the growth rate was 3.1 percent.
One reason, slower spending by consumers and higher inventories on the part of businesses. But another principal reason, the huge influx of imports into this country.
Imports rising twice as fast as U.S. exports. As a result, our trade deficit has exploded. It is literally choking our economic growth in this now $12 trillion economy.
Without a trade deficit, our growth rate would have been 4.6 percent, 50 percent higher than the actual growth rate. It's also a clear indication of the extremely high cost of so-called free trade.
This network will have live coverage tonight of the president's news conference. Our special programming begins at 7:30 p.m. Eastern, 4:30 p.m. Pacific. Paula Zahn and Wolf Blitzer will be anchoring.
President Bush today congratulated Iraq's leaders after they ended months of political deadlock and chose a new government. But several key cabinet positions remain unfilled largely because negotiators have failed to reach a final agreement on the division of responsibilities.
Ryan Chilcote reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three months after national elections, members of Iraq's National Assembly finally raised their hands and approved a government. But it's only a partial cabinet.
The country's prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, was expected to announce the names of all of his cabinet ministers, but moments before the vote said he was unable to decide on seven of the 36 posts. He says he hopes to fill those jobs soon. Until then, he and his deputies will occupy them.
Among the vacancies, the top jobs in the all-important defense and oil ministries. Navigating Iraq's numerous ethnic and religious (INAUDIBLE), the prime minister included Shiites from his own constituency, Kurds, Christian, Turkmen, and importantly Sunni Arabs. Sunni Arabs enjoyed most of the power under Saddam, but by and large stayed away from the polls after Saddam's fall.
In a sign of the challenges ahead of this government, moments before the vote a tribute to a member of the National Assembly assassinated Wednesday. Iraqis expect the new government to reign that violence in. but the government is already warning it can't deliver miracles.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The United States now faces as well a serious crisis that is worsening on the other side of our southern border in Mexico. President Vicente Fox now appears to have backed down for -- at least now in a confrontation with the mayor of Mexico City. But that confrontation has raised troubling questions about political instability and corruption in Mexico.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The public pressure was building as hundreds of thousands of people marched through Mexico City in support of Mexico Mayor Lopez Obrador, what they call a silent protest. Experts say in the face of such demonstrations Mexican President Vicente Fox was forced to make a conciliatory gesture.
That came today. Vicente Fox announced his attorney general would resign who led the effort to prosecute the Mexico mayor. The thinking was Obrador's legal problems would keep him from running in next year's presidential election. ALLYSON BENTON, EURASIA GROUP: I do believe that the government felt that the -- taking Lopez Obrador out of the race, or at least going through with a trial and weakening his public credibility, that the government really felt that they could manage the situation, that they could come out looking clean, that Lopez Obrador would come out looking dirty.
PILGRIM: But if that was the plan, it backfired. Some 60 percent of Mexicans think the charges against Obrador were politically motivated. President Fox has fallen in the opinion polls since the political battle began.
GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: But in recent weeks he's been really receiving extremely negative publicity around the world, but especially in the United States because of what appears to be an authoritarian, high-handed and perhaps unconstitutional move to bar the most popular politician in the country from the 2006 presidential contest.
PILGRIM: Obrador now more than ever is seen as the frontrunner in the presidential elections of 2006. Mexico City's mayor made his reputation as a man of the people, promising to work for Mexico's poor if elected, already instituting measures to raise the plight of the less well off.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: President Fox was backpedaling today, saying, "As head of state my duty is to promote national unity." Well, it's clear that the Obrador incident damaged his party's reputation not just as home, Lou, but also in the international community.
DOBBS: Well, it is a stark reminder that Vicente Fox's government has failed to prosecute and bring to justice any of the political targets of the scandals of recent years whatsoever, and that this president is an abject failure in terms of his economic and political policies within Mexico.
PILGRIM: It's a very transparent political ploy what just happened. And everyone saw it for what it was.
DOBBS: And the next interesting phase will be where Lopez Obrador decides to go, and his newfound political freedom reinstated by the removal of the attorney general.
Thank you. Kitty Pilgrim.
Up next here, identity crisis. A shocking hole in our defenses against illegal aliens, and certainly the possibility of terrorists. Dozens of people have been arrested. We'll be telling you about that.
And port security. Is the federal government failing to protect critical parts of our national infrastructure? Two leading members of Congress will join us next to discuss their proposal to raise port security.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, it takes a lot to shock our viewers when it comes to the issue of illegal immigration. But tonight this story out of Florida may do just that.
Federal authorities have arrested 52 people in a scam to sell fake drivers' licenses to illegal aliens in Florida. Those licenses, to transport hazardous materials. Three of the people arrested work for Florida's Department of Motor Vehicles.
Casey Wian has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three Florida driver's license examiners are among the more than 50 people arrested in a scheme to provide commercial drivers' licenses to illegal aliens. Officers say the suspects were selling permits to drive fuel tankers, hazardous material trucks and other heavy machinery that could be used by terrorists for $100 to $200 a piece.
MARCO JIMENEZ, U.S. ATTORNEY, SO. FLORIDA: These cases are important because a driver's license is a bad guy's ticket in. It's a ticket into airports, seaports, to banking institutions, highways, into basically all areas of our society. And, of course, a commercial driver's license allows even more access to sensitive areas.
WIAN: Officers allege recruiters charged between $1,500 and $3,000 to connect illegal aliens with the state examiners, who would then falsely certify them as U.S. citizens.
JESUS TORRES, U.S. IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: They're a weak link. They can be coerced, they can be used, they can be bought to gain access to our critical infrastructure.
WIAN: Today's case is the latest example of government efforts to crack down on widespread document fraud by illegal aliens. Since February, ICE has arrested or helped prosecute criminals in 16 states for counterfeit drivers' licenses, visas or other immigration documents.
They include a scheme in Virginia to provide thousands of Indonesian illegal aliens with drivers' licenses and I.D. cards, an Indiana resident charged with using false identities to help spy for Saddam before U.S. forces invaded in 2003, two Louisiana men charged with offering to sell forged documents to members of the Philippine terrorist group Abu Sayyaf, and a Lebanese national in California charged with attempting to use fake immigration papers to help smuggle his countrymen through Mexico.
In the Florida case, ICE agents say there's no evidence any of those who bought bogus licenses has connections to terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WIAN: But in other recent fraudulent document cases, it's clear potential terrorists are trying to sneak into the United States. Another reminder that border security can't stop at the border -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And again, a reminder of how just important Congressman James Sensenbrenner's Real ID Bill really is to the welfare of the nation.
Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting.
We reported last night here on several police departments in California that are trying to reverse a longstanding policy preventing police officers and deputy sheriffs from enforcing our national immigration laws. Tonight, one Connecticut town where thousands of illegal aliens live has decided to try to change that policy. The mayor of Danbury, Connecticut, is now asking officials to deputize state police.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Danbury. Connecticut, ranked one of the best cities to live in the United States, is overwhelmed with an ever-increasing population of illegal ill yens.
MAYOR MARK BOUGHTON, DANBURY, CONNECTICUT: I think that Danbury provides a perfect storm, if you will, of a place for somebody to settle in. We have low unemployment rate, plenty of work. We have accessible housing stock.
TUCKER: Town officials estimate that the illegal population is roughly 15,000, or about 20 percent of the town.
BOUGHTON: And our school population has grown from about a thousand -- over a thousand students from 1997 to 2005. And that represents a significant increase and significant tax burden to our taxpayers.
TUCKER: And there are rising cultural clashes. This four- bedroom house, for example, is one of a dozen homes recently cited for illegal zoning, health, fire and building violations. It was bought by a group of illegal aliens who converted it into an eight-bedroom boarding house in a high-end residential neighborhood.
BOUGHTON: We guestimate that there were probably 12 to 14 people living in a home that's really designed for a family of roughly five or six people. And so that presents a tremendous distress on a neighborhood and tremendous pressure on our neighborhoods.
WIAN: The mayor has reached out to the state's governor, attorney general, commissioner of public safety, to Connecticut senators Dodd and Lieberman. He wants Connecticut State Police trained and authorized under federal law to detain people in immigration violations, saying for Danbury to tackle the problem alone is useless.
The state police say they are considering the request and will meet with the mayor soon. But so far he's all alone. He wants the federal government to wake up.
BOUGHTON: This is not an issue that's localized just to the border states. This problem is around every village and every city and every town in this country.
WIAN: There's another theme that's repeated over and over in Mayor Boughton's letters and in interview with us: this is not an immigration problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: This an illegal immigration problem. He notes with pride that there are 48 languages spoke in Danbury's high school.
And, Lou, this is not our first trip to Danbury. We were there about a year and a half ago. He was asking for help then. He's gotten none, and the problem has only gotten worse.
DOBBS: I love the response of the Connecticut State Police, we'll talk about it.
WIAN: We'll have a meeting.
DOBBS: Unbelievable. If our political leaders this country do not wake up, it's going to be a crime. A crime of failure to represent the citizens of this country.
Bill Tucker, thank you, sir.
Coming up next, the congressional battle over President Bush's judicial nominees. We'll have a special report for you on one California judge who is at the center of that fight.
And then, god and politics, why one of the country's most prominent Republicans says Christian conservatives have taken over his party.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senate Majority Leader Senator Bill Frist is standing firm against filibusters of the president's judicial nominees. And he is now proposing limiting debate on judicial nominees to 100 hours. His plan is an alternative to the so-called nuclear option that Republicans have considered in order to nullify those Democratic filibusters.
Minority leader Senator Harry Reid said Democrats will consider the Frist proposal, but for now Senator Reid says it looks like "a big wet kiss to the far right." One of the judicial nominations that Democrats have filibustered is that of California Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown. President Bush has nominated her to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. But Justice Brown's rulings on several controversial issues have effectively stalled her nomination for two years.
Judy Woodruff reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): May 24, 2003, commencement day at Catholic Universities Columbus School of Law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our honoree knows what it is like to be denied opportunity, but She has never believed herself to be a victim.
WOODRUFF: There she was, California's Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown. A sharecroppers daughter who grew up in segregated Alabama. A one-time single mother who worked her way through college and law school. Her message to the graduates that day, stay true to your faith.
JANICE ROGERS BROWN, CALIFORNIA SUPREME COURT: For what we ultimately pursue is a true vision of justice and ordered liberty, respectful of human dignity and the authority of God.
WOODRUFF: The White House was watching. And two months later, President Bush nominated Justice Brown to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. A seat often viewed as a stepping stone to the Supreme Court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You swear that the testimony you're about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
WOODRUFF: But since 2003, Justice Brown's nomination has been stalled in the Senate.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER, (D) JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: There's a lot in your record that troubles me. And I think you have got a rough road to hoe, at least on this side of the aisle.
WOODRUFF: Democrats brand her a radical extremist, far out of the mainstream. They point to her views on abortion rights and some of her more outspoken speeches.
"Where government moves in," she once said, "community retreats, civil society disintegrate, and ability to control our own destiny atrophies." She called the New Deal the triumph of our socialist revolution. Justice Brown doesn't shy away from those statements.
JANICE ROGERS BROWN, CALIFORNIA SUPREME COURT: A judge is not some kind of automaton, or computer. You know, a judge is a thinking human being.
WOODRUFF: She insists that, on the bench, the Constitution is her guide.
BROWN: When you make a decision, your decision has to be on the law and the facts in an individual case. WOODRUFF: Republicans say Justice Brown is this year's Clarence Thomas, that Democrats just can't accept African-American conservatives.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: The Democrats are claiming anyone who is conservative, who is a person of color, who is pro-life, is outside of the mainstream of American jurisprudence.
WOODRUFF: Some liberals accept the Thomas comparison, but in a negative way.
JULIAN BOND, NAACP CHAIRMAN: Janice Rogers Brown's nomination validates the worst fears of the most severe critics of affirmative action, the fear that an unqualified minority will be nominated solely because of her race.
WOODRUFF: Judy Woodruff, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Now that is a tough battle and tough words.
Coming up next, god and politics. One former Republican senator will be here to tell us why he says his party has become the political arm of Christian conservatives.
And then, securing your future, President Bush's so-called Social Security reform is based on a program that has largely produced mixed results in another country. We'll have that story for you.
And homeland insecurity. Two members of Congress join us to tell us why they are taking action to secure our nation's vulnerable seaports.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a moment, one of the country's most prominent Republicans who says his party has its priorities all wrong.
Here are some of the other important stories we're covering tonight.
Police in Britain have arrested a student pilot who prompted a terrorism alert in this country. The pilot took flight lessons at a Georgia airport. Authorities issued a terror alert after he tried to have his pilot rating upgraded to fly commercial aircraft even though he is not qualified to do so.
The Florida Supreme Court tonight is refusing to hear an appeal from Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh claims his privacy was invaded when investigators seized his medical records. That investigation looked at his alleged purchase of painkillers. And a severe and fast-moving rainstorm dumping more than an inch of rain in parts of southern California. The storm knocking down trees, causing approximately 60 accidents, including this truck which jackknifed.
Nearly 28 inches of rain have now fallen in that area this year. This is only now one inch short of the all-time record for rainfall set more than 120 years ago.
My guest tonight is a highly regarded Republican who says his party has abandoned its founding principles. Instead, former Senator John Danforth says the Republican Party has become the political arm of conservative Christians.
Senator Danforth, also a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, wrote a recent op-ed in "The New York Times" which said, "As a senator, I worried every day about the size of the federal deficit. I did not spend a single minute worrying about the affect of gays on the institution of marriage. Today it seems to be the other way around."
Senator Danforth most recently served, as I said, as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. He is also, by the way, an Episcopal minister and joining us tonight from St. Louis.
Good to have you with us.
JOHN DANFORTH, FMR. U.S. SENATOR: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Let me turn to the issue that you raise with that one comment, not worrying about the impact of gays on the institution of marriage and worrying more about the federal deficit. At large, how far do you believe the party has moved from you philosophically, from when you were serving specifically in the U.S. Senate.
DANFORTH: I think the basics of Republican philosophy are the same as when was in the Senate, that is we tend to be physical conservatives. We tend to be concerned about the federal deficit. We want to keep taxes low. We want to keep the burden of federal regulations light. We believe in engaged foreign policy. We believe that the courts should be in the business of interpreting the law, not making it. These are standard beliefs of all Republicans, virtually.
But I think what's happened in very recent times there's become this religious bent to the Republican Party where we've gotten into an agenda items for religious conservatives. And I think that that's a mistake. I think basically the separation of church and state is served our country very well for more than 200 years. And we should honor that. And we're venturing from that.
DOBBS: It's a fundamental tenant, a fundamental tradition of this country and required by the constitution, in point of fact. But the idea that evangelical Christians, the far right in some instances, certainly, have taken control of the Republican Party or producing a terrific influence within it, how is that come to be in your judgment? DANFORTH: Well, I think that some of the churches have become very well organized politically which is their right to do. I mean I don't -- I don't deny them that at all. I think that all people should be involved in politics.
But I think a lot of Republicans have viewed this as a whole new basis of political support. Some people who have not traditionally been Republicans now are supporting the Republican Party, so they think that this is something of a bonanza for our party.
But the problem is that it points us in a direction which I don't think is good for the country. And as a matter of fact in the long run I don't think it's good for the Republican Party, either.
DOBBS: Let me pose this to you. The Democrats for -- as a matter of history have appealed to black churches, to bring out the black vote in this country as you well know. Jews in this country, either through the synagogue or through their communities, have supported Democratic candidates and have made their views on religious grounds well known. Protestants in the south have always, until the last 40 years, aligned themselves with Democrats.
There is a great tradition in the country as well, though, for the involvement of religions and politics. How do you -- how do you separate those and weigh them?
DANFORTH: Well, there's a tradition that goes back to Biblical times, ever since Moses confronted Pharaoh of religious people confronting government, weighing in with government. It's a basic right of all Americans. It's certainly a right of religious people. It's a right of people who are involved with churches to be active participants in politics, they should be. I happen to be one of them.
I think the problem is not so much from the side of religion, but from the side of the politicians. It's when politicians present themselves as essentially the extension of a sectarian point of view that we get into trouble. I mean, it's one thing for politicians to weigh the input of religious people, but it's quite another thing to basically take an entire agenda and try to put it in legislative form.
And you know, a number of examples that I could give you but I think...
DOBBS: Please do.
DANFORTH: Yes. Well one example I think would be the Terri Schiavo case. Which there is a case where standard Republican views of deferring to states, of certainly not putting the federal courts and the business of trumping state courts, of not having some special sense of wisdom located in Congress and Washington, those traditional Republican positions were shoved aside because there was at least an apparent push from religious groups to -- for Congress to involve itself in that sad case of Terri Schiavo. That would be one example.
I think another example would be the move to amend the constitution with respect to gay marriage. Now, you can be for or against gay marriage. I think marriage is between a man and a woman myself, but to amend the constitution is a little bit far out. But it is taking on a religious agenda. And it's something that's unique to the Republican Party.
DOBBS: Jack Danforth, we are out of time. Senator Danforth, Ambassador Danforth, it's good to have you with us. And, if you will, convey my best to your lovely wife.
DANFORTH: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Thank you.
President Bush will begin his primetime news conference in about an hour and a half. The president will give a short statement promoting his plan to privatize part of Social Security. The proposal is based on a model set by Chile more than two decades ago. It is a plan that has divided the people of Chile ever since.
Lucia Newman reports from Santiago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dagoberto Sias (ph) has worked as a laboratory technician at the University of Chile's medical school for 37 years. But, now that he's about to retire under Chile's private pension system, he's in despair.
I realize I've been hoodwinked. And that my income will be reduced to a third. It's terrible to tell your wife that we have to rent our house and move to a more humble place to survive.
Gallo Ramiros (ph), a former hospital management executive who lives in an upper class neighborhood worked just as many years as Dagoberto (ph), but is thrilled with the generous pension he gets from his private retirement fund.
I'm very happy, because this system of capital investment has meant I get a much higher return than under the old system, he says.
Why the radically different experiences? Because in the country that pioneered privatized Social Security and inspired President George Bush to try to do the same, a person's retirement ultimately depends on how much money he or she can invest. And the less you make, the less you can afford to save for retirement.
In 1981, Chile privatized its Social Security, arguing just like President Bush does today, that keeping the pay as you go system will bankrupt it.
(on camera): 25 years later, Chile's government is still forking out millions above the normal Social Security payments to subsidize low income earners who haven't paid in enough over a mandatory 20-year period. Yet many, especially women, who often leave the work force to have children, don't even meet the minimum requirement needed to qualify for any payment. And so are left uncovered. (voice-over): Differences in population and economies make comparisons difficult. But many of Chile's problems, such as the high management fees that pension funds charge that reduce payouts should concern those who want to copy the system.
GUILLERMO LARRAIN, SUPERINTENDENT, PENSION FUNDS: We want a very stable part of the package to be sent next year to Congress. It's a reform that will allow to have more competition and then lower prices for the consumer.
NEWMAN: The man who oversees the private pension fund says it is still a work if progress. But after nearly 25 years, Chile's pension reform still needs to be reformed. Too late for Dagoberto (ph) who went back to school to learn podiatry just to make his retirement ends meet.
Lucia Newman, CNN, Santiago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll, "do you believe President Bush has already lost the battle for so-called Social Security reforms? Yes or no." Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up.
Next here, homeland insecurity: Two members of Congress will tell us why our nation's ports remain far too vulnerable to terrorism.
And then, a new option for companies looking to save money on labor. It turns out they can do it without shipping those jobs oversees. We'll have our special report for you on that subject next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: U.S. ports remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks because of a lack of federal funding and attention, three-and-a-half years after September 11. Senator Susan Collins of Maine and Congresswoman Jane Harman of California have introduced bipartisan legislation to raise port security funding and to improve port security. Senator Collins and Congresswoman Harman, today, told me, earlier, why their legislation is critical to our national security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JANE HARMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: We're spending too little, period, on homeland security, but $9 out of $10 go to airport security, and the $1 goes to port security, and I totally agree with Suzanne Collins that, if I were an al Qaeda plotting to harm the U.S., hitting one of our major ports, like the port of Los Angeles, which is surrounded by my congressional district -- which we both visited about a month ago or two months ago -- would be where I would go.
One trillion dollars -- with a T -- is the value of -- annual value -- of our trade: 95 percent of trade goes through ports, 43 percent of the containers that enter and exit the United States go through the ports of L.A. and Long Beach. And if you hit that, you really interrupt U.S. commerce, you kill a lot of people on the port and around the port, and it's an unmistakable message.
DOBBS: Both of you, obviously well-versed and knowledgeable on the issue of security, post-9/11, and the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. How is it, Senator, Congresswoman, that this country can be in this shape, this vulnerable, specifically with the ports, three- and-a-half years after 9/11?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: Well, we have made some progress and I don't want to minimize that, but I think there's a tendency to always focus on the last threat. When there was the attack using airliners, then we focused on commercial aviation. That is not the way our approach should be. We should do a careful assessment to identify our vulnerabilities and then address the funding to help make us safer, and by any assessment, the possibility that a container coming into this country could be used to smug either al Qaeda terrorists themselves -- we know they have been used to smuggle in Chinese illegal immigrants -- or whether it would be used to smuggle the makings of a dirty bomb, our ports are at tremendous risk.
HARMAN: And, let me just add to that -- strategy, strategy, strategy. The point of forming the Homeland Security Department, which we both strongly supported -- and we both think that the new secretary, Michael Chertoff, will be very successful there -- was to create a strategy, an integrated national strategy for homeland security. Three years later, we still don't have that. We have the squeaky wheel theory of homeland security, and airports are squeaking loudest.
What we need now, and what our bill would do, would be, require the identification of ports at most risk, and then link them to a dedicated funding stream from customs revenues, so that the money would definitely be there and it wouldn't be moved elsewhere.
But the point is, that we will interrupt commerce totally in the United States of America and harm thousands, if not millions, of people if we don't get our act together.
DOBBS: And, Senator, in conclusion, obviously a bipartisan effort between you and the Congresswoman. What is the likelihood of prompt action and approval in Congress?
COLLINS: Well, as you point out, this is a bipartisan, bicameral effort and I think that increases the chances for success. I believe there's a growing realization among members of Congress that our ports remain one of the biggest vulnerabilities that we have, and if we're going to address this, we're going to make our nation safer, we have to face the fact that we need a dedicated stream of revenues that will support multi-year improvements in security. The Coast Guard has said we should be spending $7.3 billion on port security over the next decade. We're starting down the path of providing the funding that's needed, and I'm hopeful that we will be successful.
HARMAN: And, if I just might add, last night at 11:00 p.m., the House Homeland Security Committee, on which I'm a member, reported a $34 billion annual authorization bill on a unanimous basis. That's a good start, a rare example of bipartisanship in the House, and we need this.
DOBBS: A member, and, point of fact, a ranking member, thank you very much.
Congresswoman Harman, Senator Collins, thank you both, very much.
HARMAN: Thank you, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And, coming up, at the top of the hour, here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Anderson, with a preview -- Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much.
Coming up at the top of the hour, "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh joins us to talk about the hunt to rescue a victim of child porn.
Also tonight, are your late-night habits hurting your health? Find out why staying up late may be bringing you down during the day, part of our special series of "Sleepless in America." That, and more, in about 14 minutes. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Anderson, looking forward to it.
Now, our SPECIAL REPORT on the shipment of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets, "Exporting America." Tonight, a company that's betting U.S. businesses will send jobs to Arkansas rather than those cheap foreign labor markets.
Lisa Sylvester has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jonesboro, Arkansas, may not seem like a mecca for high-tech programmers, but Kathy Brittain White, the founder of Rural Sourcing and an Arkansas native, hopes to change that.
KATHY BRITTAIN WHITE, PRES. RURAL SOURCING: It's a huge talent base that is going unutilized. There are over a thousand different universities that are located in what we think of as nonmetro areas. Most of those students when they graduate if they want to work in their major they have to leave the area.
SYLVESTER: By next month the firm will have 50 employees offering computer programming in rural Arkansas and North Carolina, a low-cost alternative for companies that don't want to move overseas. Salaries are lower than in large metro areas, but so is the cost of living.
BEN TRACY, PROGRAMMER ANALYST, RURAL SOURCING: The wages are extremely competitive, and there's only a handful of companies even hiring I.T. jobs in Jonesboro. So, this is a pretty big deal for Jonesboro and basically for Arkansas.
SYLVESTER: Many U.S. companies that have sent I.T. work to India have been disappointed with the result. Having the work done closer to home is an advantage for Rural Sourcing.
STEPHANIE MOORE, FORRESTER RESEARCH: The advantages are that, natively, we all speak the same language, you are most likely going to be in a similar time zone, one or two hours apart, instead of nine- and-a-half or 12 hours apart. So, those are the real benefits. I think that's why companies are sort of desperately looking for solutions that are located in the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: That means Rural Sourcing could win big by not following the offshoring trend. One concern raised is whether Rural Sourcing can find enough qualified I.T. workers in rural America, and to that, the company's president says, a lot of the talented I.T. employees who end up working in the large cities came from rural and middle America, but they had to leave because of the lack of opportunities. Lou?
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much for that hopeful story. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Our "Quote of the Day" comes from the commissioner of the National Football League, Paul Tagliabue. Tagliabue was testifying before a House committee looking at the NFL steroid policy. He defended the league's policy and he blasted suggestions that an international body be allowed to set standards and punishment for steroid use in pro-football. He said, and we think it is worthy of quotation -- "I happen to believe that Americans can solve America's problems just as well as anybody else in the world. When we apply our minds to it, we can be the best in the world. If we're going to start outsourcing or offshoring our drug problems, then we're in trouble."
Commissioner, I hate to say it, but we're already in trouble.
Why our military may not be able to afford weapons to fight another war: General David Grange will be here, "On Point," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld yesterday declared the Pentagon will take a hard look at the soaring costs of new weapon systems. The Government Accountability Office says the cost of top five weapons programs has risen from 281 billion to 521 billion in just four years. And that's raising concerns our military won't be able to afford the weapons it needs.
Joining me now, General David Grange. Good to have you with us, Dave.
GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's take as an example the joint strike fighter program. That's going to be 250 -- an estimated $256 billion. Does that make sense to you? Is it the right place for that much money?
GRANGE: Well, the joint fighter -- for jointness between the services of armed forces, that's great. For commonality and friendly nations, it's great. But it is very expensive and it shouldn't be at the cost of many other central items.
DOBBS: What, there are 2,400 of these fighters to be purchased by the Pentagon and the eight partner nations that you mentioned. Do we really need 2,400 of them?
GRANGE: Well, I don't think now, but maybe in the future of some type of peer competitive, we will. The question is can our -- the allies that are buying these with the United States even afford them, let alone us? I don't think so.
DOBBS: And the DDX, the Navy's newest destroyer, the price on that is 6.3 billion. The Navy wanted 24 of them, and now says they can only afford five of them. Either they need them or they don't. What's going on?
GRANGE: Well, I think five is better than none. And five at least gives a nucleus for that modernized fleet to enhance the rest of the Navy. And so if they can afford the five, it's prudent to do that, again, for some type of future fight.
DOBBS: It's weird looking at this. I mean, Secretary Rumsfeld is saying things like -- which I find interesting and intriguing -- rationalizing, if you will, or strategizing further that we didn't need 300,000 troops in Iraq, because in his judgment, that would have certainly provided more targets for the enemy, which is one of the most robustly ironic and I think interesting statements I have heard on the theory of warfare in a long time. But at the same time, he's got a budget that is tremendous and is limited at the same time. What should be the priorities for Donald Rumsfeld, for the U.S. Pentagon, the U.S. military?
GRANGE: Well, Lou, right now we're in a period of time very similar after Vietnam. In other words, during President Reagan's military build-up time, if that did not happen, if those massive programs were not put in place, we'd be hurting today in the conflicts that we face.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
GRANGE: But the priorities ought to be, number one, personnel. That's the most important resource. You can't short-change pay and care for troops. And that includes veterans.
Number two, maintenance. The equipment has been ridden hard and put away wet. Massive maintenance must be done with the equipment on hand to prepare for the next fight.
And then number three is training readiness. That should never be degraded, because that's what keeps Americans alive and keeps the edge against the enemy. And lastly, modernization.
DOBBS: From General David Grange, pretty good counsel, as always. Thank you. Good to have you with us, Dave.
GRANGE: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, the results of our poll tonight; a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. And a discovery that researchers waited more than a year to announce. We'll have that story next here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the results of tonight's poll, and they are overwhelming. The question, do you believe President Bush has lost the battle already for so-called Social Security reform? Ninety-six percent of you say yes, he has.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts. Kee Barclay in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida wrote to say -- "The United Nations has progressed from an inept, anti-American debating society to a corrupt, inept, anti-American debating society, and has worn out its welcome in New York. And being in the real estate business, I would like to buy that building on the East River and turn it into condos."
Jim Rauch in Gainesville, wrote: "The only problem with Social Security is that Congress can't keep its hands off the money. For decades, they claimed there was a "surplus" in the "trust fund" and spent it. Now, the bill is about to come due, and they're looking for ways to weasel out.
Pamela Whitfield in Danville, California: "Our government behaves as if we are afraid to take action to close the border with Mexico and do it effectively. What could Mexico be holding over us? Encouraging drugs into the United States, helping terrorists? What is tipping the scales that allow lawmakers and law enforcers to give a blind eye to illegal entry into this country?"
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And if you want our e-mail newsletter, sign up at LouDobbs.com.
A fascinating discovery tonight for scientists, bird lovers and those who just like a good story. Researchers say a bird long thought to be extinct has now been spotted. The ivory-billed woodpecker has been seen in eastern Arkansas, and its image captured there on this video.
The discovery has been kept secret for more than a year, while scientists worked to protect the bird and its environment. The last confirmed sighting of the ivory-billed woodpecker in this country was in Louisiana in 1944.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Our special report, "Exporting America," how one lawmaker is fighting to stop corporations from exporting American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. And in our weekly salute to our men and women in uniform, in "Heroes," we'll have the inspiring story of one of the 82nd Airborne's finest, who has received a Silver Star for his bravery in Afghanistan.
For all of us here, thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much.
END
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