Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Scope and Scale of Base Closings; Bloody Iraq; Cuba Crackdown; Chinese Trade Problems Continue
Aired May 13, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the Pentagon has announced a huge military base closing. It is the biggest, in fact, in two decades. Tens of thousands of jobs will be lost if Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has his way. We'll have complete coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Also ahead on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, bloody Iraq: insurgent attacks escalate sharply. How strong is the insurgency? A special report.
In "Heroes," an Army medic decorated twice for bravery in Iraq: he says he was just doing his job. We'll have his inspiring story.
And mass arrests in Cuba: hundreds of young people rounded up. They committed no crimes. The U.S. State Department says it's outrageous.
This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate and opinion, tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, hundreds of communities all across the country are bracing for a huge job cut under the military's largest base closing in 20 years. The Pentagon wants to close 33 major facilities. It also wants to significantly cut troop numbers at 29 other bases. Ten thousand military, 18,000 civilian jobs will be lost.
From the Pentagon, Jamie McIntyre reports on the scope and scale of these base closings. And from Capitol Hill, Joe Johns reports on lawmakers, who are already fighting tonight to save jobs.
We begin with Jamie at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it's been 10 years since the Pentagon has been able to close any bases, and it appears they're making up for lost time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will hear us. And they will (INAUDIBLE).
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The Pentagon's plan sparked predictable outrage at bases like Maine's Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government's going to close us down and cut their military down when we're at war. It doesn't make much sense to me.
MCINTYRE: The proposed closings, including Virginia's sprawling Fort Monroe, home of the Army's training and doctrine command, are the biggest ever recommended by the Pentagon. That comes as a rude shock after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld hinted just a day earlier his shut-down plans would be scaled back.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The department is recommending fewer major base closures than had earlier been anticipated due in part to the return of tens of thousands of troops.
MCINTYRE: What the Pentagon unveiled is essentially the mother of all base closings, 33 major bases closed, including the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and New London Submarine Base in New England; Fort Gillem and Fort McPherson in Georgia; Fort Monroe, Virginia; Pascagoula Naval Station, Mississippi; Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota; and Cannon Air Force base, New Mexico. The mayor of nearby Clovis, New Mexico, is vowing to save his base.
MAYOR DAVID LANSFORD, CLOVIS, NEW MEXICO: Because our resolve is to put forth the greatest fight that this community his ever put forth, because we have the right cause, the right people and the resources to win.
MCINTYRE: Twenty-nine major bases would be downsized, including the Rock Island Arsenal and Great Lakes Naval Air Station in Illinois; Fort Eustis, Virginia; and 10 Air Force bases, including Pope in North Carolina; Lackland and Sheppard in Texas; Grand Forks in North Dakota; Maxwell in Alabama; Mountain Home, Idaho; McChord in Washington; and Elmendorf in Alaska. And 775 smaller bases would be closed or consolidated, nearly three times the number of smaller facilities affected by all four previous base-closing rounds combined.
One example of consolidation, historic Walter Reed Army Medical Center will be relocated and merged with the Bethesda Naval Hospital outside of Washington. Pentagon officials say with both hospitals under-utilized, it just makes sense for the Army and Navy to join forces.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: There's a good reason that the Pentagon's base-closing list is so long this time. The process is so politically painful, Pentagon officials are well aware they may not get another chance to close bases anytime soon -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
On Capitol Hill, lawmakers representing districts that would lose bases declared they are determined to block the Pentagon's proposal. But some lawmakers were pleased with the Pentagon's plan, because their districts will keep bases that were threatened once with closure.
Congressional Correspondent Joe Johns with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An Armed Service Honor Guard fanned out across Capitol Hill delivering the news. For many, it was bad.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: We are not going to let this recommendation stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today the Pentagon made a substantial national security mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today's Friday the 13th. And that's not a good day.
JOHNS: Many of the most affected members of Congress were already in their home states doing damage control.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: The fact is that this plan put forth by the Pentagon makes absolutely no sense at all.
JOHNS: Among the hardest hit states, Maine, Mississippi Connecticut, and South Dakota. Political clout was no shield.
Former Republican Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott took a hit. The Pentagon recommended closing the Pascagoula Naval Station in Mississippi.
Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who beat Democratic leader Tom Daschle in last year's election, campaigned, saying his ties to President Bush might help save Ellsworth Air Force Base. He will now have to campaign to keep it open.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: We can't blow happy smoke about this. This is an uphill fight once you make it on the list.
JOHNS: Even senators from states that got off lightly found something to criticize. Texas actually increases overall number of military personnel, but the installation slated for closure included one that has been busy installing much-needed armor on Humvees destined for Iraq.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Well that doesn't make sense obviously. It's -- the military value of up-armored Humvees is high.
JOHNS: The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, California Representative Duncan Hunter, said the states have the right to appeal to the base closing commission.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Nobody has 100 percent record of winning these things. So you win some, you lose some.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: The commission now begins a series of field hearings and visits to affected installations. It is expected to deliver a final report to the president in September -- Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, thank you. Joe Johns from Capitol Hill.
Military bases in all 50 states would be affected by the Pentagon plan. Two of the biggest bases targeted for closure are in Georgia and New Jersey.
In Georgia, Fort McPherson, headquarters of the Army's forces command, would be closed. So will Fort Monmouth in New Jersey, an Army research facility that specializes in communications and electronic warfare.
Mary Snow reports from Fort Monmouth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not difficult to see the military's presence outside the gates of Fort Monmouth from the local barber shop to the town center. For businesses here, the military's presence is also felt.
Take Sam Sinno's Pizzeria, which draws a big lunch crowd from the base.
SAM SINNO, PIZZERIA OWNER: I would say that I would lose probably about 50 percent of my business.
JOHN POITRAS, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES: The economic impact to this area is going to be pretty devastating.
SNOW: John Poitras resrepresents civilian employees who work at the Army research base that employs almost 5,000 civilians and more than 600 military members.
POITRAS: That's dollars and cents that goes into the economy here. Revenues for schools, businesses.
SNOW: Businesses like Branch's Catering.
JOHN LOMBARDO, BRANCH'S CATERING: People like my cooks and dish washers who would be affected. So we're definitely going to make a strong case for ourselves.
SNOW: John Lombardo base his business close to Fort Monmouth. He is part of a group fighting to keep it open.
The mayor Eatontown says this isn't the first time there's been talk about closing Fort Monmouth. This time he's not certain if it will be able to remain open, but he says he knows there is a plan B.
MAYOR GERALD TARANTOLO, EATONTOWN, NEW JERSEY: If you look at what's happening real estate-wise in this area, I am sure there are developers chafing at the bit, at the news of Fort Monmouth's closing. We're dealing with between 600 to 800 acres of prime real estate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: New Jersey lawmakers and residents who gathered here this afternoon for a town hall meeting are not giving up their fight to keep the base open. Lawmakers say by closing it, the economic impact to this community could be over $3 billion -- Lou.
DOBBS: Mary, thank you very much.
Fort McPherson in Georgia is one of the biggest employers in the Atlanta area. Thousands of jobs there could be lost, but the impact in the rest of Georgia is not as bad as had been originally feared.
Sara Dorsey reports from Fort McPherson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll believe that when they put the padlock on the gate.
SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fort McPherson, along with six other Georgia military installations, is on the Pentagon's recommended chopping block. Despite that, Georgia officials are optimistic, because in the same breath, the Pentagon is recommending seven other Georgia military bases bolstered.
Georgia's Senator Johnny Isakson says things could have been much worse.
SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON (R), GEORGIA: ... from the fact that for the entire state, we have a net gain of 7,400 jobs. Georgia is the second largest winner in the BRAC realignment and closing process, second only to the state of Maryland. And so we have a lot to be thankful for, but we're here because we care about every single job and every single opportunity. And we think we've got a great opportunity to restore Fort Mac, and we're going to make every effort to do so.
SNOW: More than 4,000 people, both civilian and military personnel at Fort McPherson, will either have to relocate or be out of a job if the recommendations are passed. Nearly 1,500 people at the naval air station in Atlanta will be in the same boat, along with more than 1,000 at Fort Gillem.
But the state has a net increase in jobs because Fort Benning stands to gain nearly 10,000 people. Kings Bay Submarine Base will increase by more than 3,000, and Robins Air Force Base will grow by nearly 800 if the recommendations are passed.
Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue says overall the state lucked out. But people like Daryll Sims, a civilian who works maintenance at Fort McPherson, don't necessarily agree.
(on camera): Are you a little nervous that you may lose your job? DARYLL SIMS, CIVILIAN BASE EMPLOYEE: A little bit, because you never know, you know? It's a good place to work. I'd like to stay out here for a long time.
SNOW: Many politicians and people working here at Fort McPherson say they've been in this same situation before, facing the threat of being closed down. They say they will only believe it when the final decision is made.
Sara Dorsey, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: One of the biggest concentrations of military bases in this country is in the state of California. But California escaped with only a small number of base closures. Defense analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute says that's partly because the Pentagon deems future threats to this country will originate East Asia.
Naval power will be a key factor in any future conflict with any nation in Asia. The San Diego Naval Base is the home port for one- third of the Pacific fleet. Aircraft carrier strike groups based in San Diego have a key role in projecting American military power throughout the Pacific.
Another key facility in southern California is the U.S. Marine Corps base at Camp Pendleton. The base is home to the 1st Marine Division, a powerful fighting force of nearly 20,000 Marines. That division can be quickly deployed to trouble spots and carry out amphibious operations.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you support closing more than 30 major military installations now across the country, yes or no? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results at the end of the broadcast.
Still ahead, how the United States plans to respond to the latest wave of insurgent attacks in Iraq.
And the nuclear option. The battle over the president's judicial nominees and filibusters escalates in the Senate. We'll have that report and a great deal more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: History could be made in Washington, D.C., next week. An expected Senate battle over President Bush's judicial nominees could be only days away, in fact. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist today said he will seek confirmation as early as Tuesday for two conservative judges whose nominations have been blocked by Democrats.
Senator Frist also vowed to use the so-called nuclear option to win approval for justices Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown. That would mean changing Senate rules to block the use of a filibuster. Separately tonight, Democrats are vowing to use procedural measures to delay the nomination of John Bolton as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Senator Boxer of California has exercised her option to put a hold on the nomination until the State Department releases more information about John Bolton's record.
Boxer's move contradicts a statement that she made eight years ago. In that statement, Senator Boxer said, "According to the U.S. Constitution, the president nominates, and the Senate shall provide advice and consent. It is not the role of the Senate to obstruct the process and prevent numbers of highly qualified nominees from even being given the opportunity for a vote on the Senate floor."
Senator Boxer is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. That committee voted yesterday to send Bolton's nomination to the full Senate for a vote without a recommendation. The White House maintains Bolton is the right person for the job.
In Iraq, an American soldier has been killed. He was killed when a car bomb exploded next to a U.S. patrol north of Baghdad. Four other American soldiers were wounded.
Violence has escalated in recent weeks in Iraq. The number of suicide bomb attacks has increased sharply.
Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violence in Iraq is unrelenting and brutal. It is Iraqi civilians and security forces who are dying.
As many as 400 Iraqis killed in the last two weeks, according to officials. Insurgent attacks now number around 60 a day. It's lower than the level before the January election, but more deadly. In April alone, 135 car bombs, the most ever.
Even if the violence decreases, a sober assessment on how long the U.S. might be involved in Iraq.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: The one thing we know about insurgency is they last from, you know, three, four years to nine years. These are -- these are tough fights.
STARR: A democratic Iraqi government and an Iraqi security forces trained to control the country even with escalating violence remains the strategy.
MYERS: This is not something that we're going to go out and knee-jerk to every time. This is a thinking and adapting adversary. They are thinking and adapting. The vehicle-born improvised explosive device is a very tough device to thwart.
STARR: A senior U.S. military official tells CNN it is the number of suicide car bombers, those responsible for most of the carnage, that has been a surprise. In Baghdad, where dozens of car bombs have gone off, commanders say Iraqi security forces are on the job, but the violence has become worse.
COL. JOSEPH P. DISALVO, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: And they're targeting innocent civilians with the suicide-homicide bombers in their cars. The actual number of events have decreased, to tell you the truth, over the past month. However, the fewer events are a little bit more lethal because they're targeting innocent civilians.
STARR: The U.S. offense in western Iraq is aimed at wiping out a haven for foreign fighters stockpiling car bombs and weapons. But another surprise, when insurgents stood their ground and fought. Now, dozens captured and killed. Nobody knows how many may have fled.
(on camera): So how strong is the insurgency? U.S. military commanders say it has the same capacity to launch attacks that had one year ago.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: 1,614 Americans have now been killed in Iraq.
Coming up next here, "Heroes," our weekly salute to the men and women who serve the nation. Tonight, the story of an Army medic who saved the lives of Iraqi soldiers under heavy mortar fire. We will tell you about the honors that the military is bestowing upon him.
And then, hundreds of teenagers arrested in Cuba. Their friends, their relatives say they've committed no crimes. So why are they being arrested? Our special report is coming up next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, an astounding development in Cuba. Many Cuban citizens are reporting that police and authorities there have arrested hundreds of young men and women since the beginning of this year. They were arrested even those young Cubans committed no crimes
Lucia Newman reports from Havana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the crowded low-income neighborhood of central Havana, the stepfather of an imprisoned 17-year-old boy takes us up to his tiny apartment to meet his wife. She's packing a sack of food.
"They're going to take to my son tomorrow on visiting day," says Maribel Cuello. The mother of 17-year-old Aliandan Cia-Cuello (ph) says she can't accept that her boy, a student, was sentenced to two years in prison without being accused of committing any crime. "The neighborhood police chief said my son was a potential delinquent and shouldn't be on the street because he dressed well and had access to foreign currency. That was his crime, dressing well, even though the lawyer presented all the receipts from Western Union showing his father sent him money every month from the United States."
An isolated case? Anything but.
(on camera): For the last few months, people have been approaching CNN here in Havana to complain that their children aged between 16 and 21 are being arrested under a law that hasn't been applied for years. It's called pre-crime dangerousness, and it allows the courts to put anyone in jail for up to four years.
No evidence necessary. Just a presumption that he or she may want to commit a crime.
(voice-over): At least 400 youngsters have been sentenced up to four years and sent to high security prisons this year, according to the head of the opposition human rights commission, who calls the government's action a social cleansing campaign.
ELIZARDO SANCHEZ, HUMAN RIGHTS & RECONCILIATION COMMISSION (through translator): Legally speaking, they're all innocent because they haven't committed any crime. This provision existed in the days of Hitler and Stalin. And I think in North Korea it may still exist.
NEWMAN: A lot of those rounded up, like (INAUDIBLE) husband, was suspected of making money, hanging around foreign tourists, and sentenced to four years in prison. "Maybe it's because there's so many delinquents robbing tourists on the streets that anyone who associates with a tourist ends up paying for their crimes, says Lisette (ph).
CNN asked the attorney general's office to explain the arrests and was told there would be no comment. The latest police sweep may be a government reaction to growing crimes, especially in Havana, where more and more young people refuse to take low-paying jobs.
Cuba's own constitution guarantees due process. But Maribel Cuello, whose son was jailed without committing a crime, doesn't believe it. "There's nothing I can do," she says, :nothing."
Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Pre-crime dangerousness a crime in Cuba.
In reaction it those arrests in Cuba, one State Department official told us that it is outrageous that the Cuban regime apparently is responding to high unemployment by arresting these young people and putting them in jail. In addition, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Cuba an outpost of tyranny just this week.
Coming up next, unfair trade, why China's latest effort to shut out American manufacturing could lead to an all-out trade war with the United States.
Also ahead tonight, one state wants to form its own border police force to do what the federal government has failed to do, secure our nation's borders.
And in "Heroes," a young Army medic whose extraordinary courage under fire has earned him one of the military's most distinguished honors.
Those stories and a great deal more all coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a stunning reversal, the Bush administration today declared it will reimpose quotas on three categories of Chinese textile imports that have flooded the U.S. market. Imports of cotton shirts, trousers and underwear from China have surged since quotas limiting those imports were lifted in December. Shirt and trouser imports rose by about 1,500 percent each. The new safeguards will limit the growth of those Chinese textiles to imports in the United States to 7.5 percent each year.
Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said, "Today's action demonstrates this administration's commitment to leveling the playing field to U.S. industry by enforcing our trade agreements."
While today's decision is certainly a step in the right direction, the decision comes too late for nearly 400,000 American textile workers whose jobs have been wiped out over the past four years. It is estimated by many that today's action by the Bush administration, however, will save tens of thousands of other jobs.
Congress today also took on China's unfair trade practices, specifically lawmakers blasting China's new plan to effectively shut out imports of any American or any foreign-made software. One lawmaker warned China that any such move could trigger sharp retaliation from Congress and possibly even a trade war.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China is the second largest market for personal computers in the world, but under proposed restrictive rules, American companies who want to sell software to the Chinese government would have to register copyrights first in China, manufacture all their products in China, and conduct 50 percent of their research and development in China. The discriminatory rules would effectively close the door to non-Chinese companies.
MARK BOHANNON, SOFTWARE & INFORMATION IND. ASSN: We've really never seen any kind of regime like this that tries to isolate a software industry the way that this Chinese proposal has.
SYLVESTER: When China joined the World Trade Organization, it agreed to sign the general procurement agreement, which outlines rules of fair play for awarding contracts. But it has yet to do so. The U.S. Trade Representative's Office told lawmakers, China may throw up similar barriers in other industries.
CHARLES FREEMAN, ASST. U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: It could very well be the tip of the iceberg. If this is, clearly, the first sector that they have targeted, but there are others that are out there.
SYLVESTER: Congressional members are threatening to retaliate, closing the U.S. government market to Chinese suppliers.
REP. TOM DAVIS, (R) VIRGINIA: There are a lot of vulnerabilities the Chinese need to understand. They better add up the dollars and cents before they try to start getting into the this.
SYLVESTER: Lawmakers say China would be on the losing end of a trade war. Chinese exports to the United States equal 10 percent of the country's GDP.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The U.S. trade deficit with China is $162 billion. The new regulations would hit one of the very few industries where the United States still has a trade surplus -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, it is at least possibly said Washington is awakening to the fact that free trade is hardly free, particularly when the Chinese so arrogantly would close out an American import while sustaining that $162 billion surplus from the United States, as you pointed out.
SYLVESTER: Well, it is at least a positive development, Lisa, that Washington is awakening to the fact that free trade is hardly free. Particularly when the Chinese so arrogantly would close out American import while sustaining that $162 billion surplus from the United States as you pointed out.
SYLVESTER: Indeed, Lou. That's one of those things that Congress has become more aware. I think it's just the repeated message over and over again that there's a real difference between free trade and fair trade. And time and time again, we have seen the Chinese where they haven't exactly been playing with level playing field -- Lou.
DOBBS: Level playing field. If it's a field, we're the ones getting leveled. Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Another so-called free trade issue that soon will go before Congress, the Central American Free Trade Agreement. The White House has been aggressively pushing CAFTA, even though recent polls show most Americans are opposed to CAFTA and they're certainly not alone. People in the six countries of CAFTA, including the Dominican Republic, are equally skeptical of CAFTA and for very good reasons. Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the streets of Central America, outrage over a trade deal protesters say was written by multinational corporations for their benefit. Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have formerly approved CAFTA. Debate continues in the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and Costa Rica. And of course in the United States, where Central American labor and human rights leaders have come to lobby against it.
IGNACIO HERNANDEZ, FED OF FREE TRADE ZONE WORKERS (through translator): The current free trade deal, rather than helping workers, is going to make things worse. It will weaken protection of workers rights, and undoubtedly cause job losses.
ROMANS: If NAFTA is any guide, ten years after that agreement, thousands of Mexicans a day flee their poverty, and illegally enter the U.S. Mexico's minimum wage has tumbled 20 percent to just $4 a day. But CAFTA supporters say this deal is necessary, despite the possible short-term pain.
PETER HAKIM, PRES. INTER-AMERICAN DIALOGUE: Trade agreements and trade liberalization, trade opening have helped virtually every economy that's done that. The only question is who within the economy gets those benefits. And what happens to those people who are left behind?
ROMANS: Supporters say the deal would help the CAFTA countries, including the U.S., compete with China. Opponents fear it's a race to the bottom.
REP. XAVIER BECERRA, (D) CALIFORNIA: This trade deal, I fear, sets us up to go in the direction -- or perhaps Central American go in the direction -- of looking more and more like china where it's that Darwinian theory that the survival of the fit set of who determines who wins. And if 60 cents an hour is what you pay, the only way for the other guys survives is to lower his wages to match yours.
ROMANS: Central American wages are high compared with China where manufacturing workers earn just 30 cents an hour. Many fear Central American wages would only be driven lower.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The biggest winners of that would be the large multinationals. The losers? The American workers whose jobs get moved offshore and the Central American workers whose already low rages just keep falling, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, it's easy to see why there is great enthusiasm for this brilliant idea of CAFTA, it's just more of the same.
ROMANS: Indeed. There's a lot of concern. And your seeing it in the streets of Central America as well.
DOBBS: It's about time someone started thinking about the middle class in this country and perhaps a few other countries as well, as you pointed out. Christine thanks. Christine Romans. Mexican president Vicente Fox is once again blasting the United States for something that is none of his business, or should be his business, depending on how one looks at it, and that is the U.S. national security.
President Fox says Mexico will formerly protest the newly passed and signed into law Real I.D. Act designed to strengthen U.S. border security and make it difficult for illegal aliens, including millions of Mexican citizens, from obtaining driver's licenses.
Fox also protested plans to extend border fences, saying Mexico is opposed to any barriers between the two countries. After a millions and millions of his citizens have crossed that border illegally, it is rather apparent the position of the Vicente Fox government.
In California, one state assemblyman has offered a bold new proposal to crack down on the flood of illegal aliens crossing the Mexican-California border. Assemblyman Ray Haynes has proposed a new state funded police force that would be solely for securing that border.
The mission of the California Border Police would be comprehensive statewide enforcement of federal emigration laws. Assemblyman Haynes joins us tonight from Irvine, California. Good to have you with us.
RAY HAYNES, (R) CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: Good evening.
DOBBS: How in the world -- when we have got local police agencies, other state governments saying that immigration isn't our responsibility, what makes you think that California could put forward a police force to secure your border with Mexico?
HAYNES: Well, Californians understand that California bears a disproportionate share of the cost of illegal immigration. And the only way that we're going to really control it is by saying -- and quit complaining to the federal government -- and saying, we're going to do it ourselves.
DOBBS: Do it yourselves, but idea that states would take responsibility for a border which obviously the federal government has not done, where do you find authority to do so?
HAYNES: Well, in the federal law, the Immigration Naturalization Act of 1996 there is a provision that allows state and local governments to do it, number one. And number two, states do have general police powers granted to them by the U.S. constitution that allows them to do it as well.
The only reason you really need the Immigration Naturalization Act is once the state has control of the illegal alien is what to do with them. And you have got to prosecute them, you have got deport them, you've got take the various actions to make sure that they actually do go home.
So you have to have a deal with the feds to make that happen. But that's really all you need.
DOBBS: What has been the reaction? You have put forward a new initiative. What's been the reaction amongst the lawmakers in California? And your constituents?
HAYNES: Well, my constituent think it's great. I happen to represent the largely rural part of San Diego County where the illegal aliens cross. They go through my constituent's backyards to get into the interior of California. that's number one.
Number two, among lawmakers, depending on which side of the fence you happen to be on, they understand. My lawmaker colleagues understand that we're paying about $9 to $10 billion a year for welfare and medical care, prison costs and education costs for illegal aliens. So they know that to save that money, we've got to do something. It's either whine to the federal government or take control of the concept ourselves.
DOBBS: Well, that's an intriguing analysis of benefit and expenditure. What do you think it would cost the state of California to provide its own border police?
HAYNES: Well, it's going to cost use -- based on our highway patrol -- it's probably going to cost us about $200 to $300 million to provide the police. But we're going it save for every $1 of enforcement that we spend, we're going to save $9 to $10, literally, on social service costs.
DOBBS: Well, Assemblyman Haynes, this I have to say is a remarkably rational and cogent idea. It strikes me as such. I wish you well on it.
You know today President Vicente Fox said he was going to form a -- he's going to issue a diplomatic protest against signing into law the Real I.D. Act, which would make it difficult for illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses, which will restrict the rights of asylum. What do you think he'll say about your measure?
HAYNES: Well, I don't get why he would complain about it. I do understand that he's concerned. We send about $17 billion worth of revenue to Mexico each year. So cutting that off might be a problem. But it's done in a system of abuse. His citizens would be better off with us enforcing our laws. So he should support us.
DOBBS: Assemblyman, we thank you for being here. We appreciate it.
HAYNES: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight, "Do you support closing more than 30 major military installations all across this country? Yes or no." Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results for you in just a few minutes.
Coming up next, a critical battle over one of the president's judicial nominees, one of his appointments to be the U.S. ambassador the United Nations. How the nomination of John Bolton to be U.N. ambassador will fare in the full Senate. I'll be joined by three of the country's top political journalists next.
And then, our salute to our nation's heroes. We will have the remarkable story of an Army medic who risked his own life to save the lives of others. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now from Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine.
Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times," in New York.
Mark Morrison "Business Week" magazine. Thank you all for being here. Lets start with the base closings. Let me turn to you, Mark, why now and what in the world kind of firestorm has been created?
MARK MORRISON, BUSINESSWEEK: Well, the usual firestorm that you create when you start closing bases and reduces forces. But these are things that every now and then the military has to do to try to be a little more efficient, and try to get position correctly for its strategic mission.
DOBBS: In Washington, Ron, the idea that these bases would be closed at a time when we're short-handed, in terms of the men and women who are serving the country, does this -- is this a smart time to take this on.
RON BROWNSTEIN, LOS ANGELES TIMES: I think probably it is, Lou. I mean, I'm not sure the two are related in terms of the size of the military and the question closing these bases. We haven't had a round base closings since...
DOBBS: They have to have a place it work, Ron.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, the question is whether's excess capacity? In fact, you know, some of the -- some of the bases will be gaining a number of people on them as a result of this. We haven't done this since 1995. We went though four rounds from 1998 -- '88 though '95. Congress has delayed it, but I think that by in large, this process has worked well in the past. There is extensive opportunity for public comment and there will be plenty of political argument, all politics is local on this. But in the end, this is probably something that's overdue.
DOBBS: Karen, the European, the E-3, basically have joined with the United States, and said Iran go no farther with your nuclear weapons program. Are you surprised, and is this support critical to what must be done in the months?
KAREN TUMULTY, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, surprise not entirely, and it's in part because Iran has been so aggressive in sort of flouting the -- what has been negotiated. I mean, just this week they announced that they would be moving ahead on enriching uranium. I think the Europeans are just starting to get exasperated. What appears...
DOBBS: They are where -- they are where the Bush administration was sometime ago.
TUMULTY: Precisely. And as a result -- and Condi Rice did a lot of work on bringing everybody together when she was in Europe. And as a result, I think it's far more likely that this question is going to end up where the Bush administration has wanted it to end up which is in the U.N.
BROWNSTEIN: You know, Lou, there's interesting contrast here with North Korea. If you look at it as Karen was saying, we are moving closer into alignment with the European allies on how it handle Iran. By contrast with North Korea, we continue to have all sorts of strains with China and South Korea over what to do next in the situation that is if anything more perilous at moment. On one front there, is progress. On another, there's a great deal of uncertainty.
DOBBS: There seem to be strong hegemonic (ph) forces at work here. Traditional allies, as you put it, with Western Europe and with China, and -- not willing to confront North Korea. In fact, now appearing to be an obstructionist in whatever talk, and whatever progress can be made there. Seeming to take on greater influence to push await United States. Do you sense the same thing, Karen?
TUMULTY: I do indeed. And also the South Koreans have -- have also been critical of the Bush administration. Saying essentially they've ratcheted the rhetoric too high. This is making it harder and harder for the Bush administration, for this country to avoid a more direct engagement with the North Koreans.
MORRISON: However, I think that, -- you know, at some point, if there is an opening where -- where the administration feels like it really can get something out of a one on one sit down with -- with that crazy regime over there, that that will probably happen. But this is, you know, it's very hard to second guess as we're dealing with a totally irrational leader there. And it's most dangerous of these two situations vs. Iran I would say.
DOBBS: I want to draw...
MORRISON: Because you can have these weapons suddenly pop up in the hands of the terrorists from the North Koreans.
DOBBS: As well as the Iranians. I think we might point out there Mark. The fact is that there's a lot of talk about structure, about the way to proceed, about alliances -- even hegemony. But the fact is, no one's talking about what the solution here, the end result should be of any talk, any structure of talks.
Ron, any thoughts on that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I was just thinking, Lou, this is a problem we've been dealing with for -- at a high level for over a decade. The Clinton administration, you know, says almost came to war to try to prevent from North Korea from becoming nuclear armed. It's not clear there's a military option that would be acceptable. It's really not clear what the answer is going to be here. The greatest hope has been that, as you say, China would exert pressure and other trading partners would exert pressure. But that is a fading hope, too. We're all, I think, across the western world, look for an answer.
DOBBS: Mark, filibuster. The nuclear option, so-called, fortunately a different type of nuclear option. Should the filibuster remain as part as the Senate's arcane rules? Is it reasonable to have a minority within the Senate obstruct?
MORRISON: I would like to see the filibuster stay in place. I think what you have here is a reaction to very extreme animosity between the two sides. We have to change the rules that have been in effect for a long time to accommodate this one particular -- that's a long time, even by my standards, to accommodate this very ugly separation between the two parties.
TUMULTY: This isn't just a partisan separation, though. In many ways this is an argument between the sort of young turks in the Senate. The people who've never known on the Republicans' side what it feels like to be in the minority who do. And some very senior Republicans who do.
DOBBS: And, Ron, should it stay or should it go? It seems on the one hand obstructionist. It's been historically used by obstructionist of the majority will. Why is it any different this time? Why shouldn't just simply be put -- be put in the dust heap of history?
BROWNSTEIN: The Nick Jones question, should I say or should I go? Look, right now eliminating the filibuster will be another centrifical force in Washington. It will increased polarization, increased confrontation between the parties at a time when there is a great need in the country for leaders who can build consensus. And I am afraid that if the filibuster's removed, we will get more decisive fights over the judicial nomination and everything else.
DOBBS: My only problem there, Ron, is I can't see how it could be any more polarized.
Ron Brownstein, Karen Tumulty, Mark Morrison, thank you all for being here.
MORRISON: Thanks, Lou.
TUMULTY: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360," of course, and Anderson is here to tell us what it's all about next -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Lou, thanks very much.
Yes, in about 12 minutes from now, a good news story coming up on "360." She's known simply as hotel girl, the nameless, faceless child authorities have been searching years for. She has been found and she is safe. It's a remarkable story of inventive police work and dedication. We'll bring that to you and an interview with crime fighter John Walsh about how you can keep your kids safe.
Also tonight, allegations that one of the main ingredients in your pots and pans could cause birth defects. We'll bring you all of the angles on that one and a lot more -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Anderson, have a great weekend.
"Heroes:" a national guard soldier says he was just doing his job. But for that, he has received the military's -- two of the military's highest honors. His remarkable story is next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In "Heroes" this week, we introduce you to a young Army medic who was awarded two of the Army's highest honors for his bravery. Washington National Guard Specialist Gerrit Kobes was award an Army Commendation Medal and the Silver Star for his service in Iraq. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gerrit Kobes works the assembly line, putting together wood stoves in a factory in Colville, Washington. At 23, he's one of the youngest workers, but he commands respect for his service in Iraq. Kobes, a medic, earned an Army Commendation Medal with valor, just two months into his year-long deployment. Shrapnel hit a soldier in the head, leaving him gravely wounded.
SPECIALIST GERRIT KOBES, ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: I intubated him with a tube, to breathe for him, and started breathing for him. There was no movement. He had a slight -- a weak pulse. We got him into the ambulance. I rode with him in the ambulance. I didn't expect him to make it. He went through four hours of neurosurgery.
WIAN: The soldier lived. The experience left Kobes a changed man.
KOBES: There's a soldier that got to go home to his family because of what everybody did that day. So it was a great, great day for me.
This is probably the most important award to me. Made me believe in myself a lot.
WIAN: Months later, Kobes distinguished himself again, this time braving mortar fire to save the lives of Iraqi soldiers during an attack on their convoy.
KOBES: I put my head gear back on, and we ran through, you know -- there is few vehicles here and there for cover. A lot of open ground. And we ran approximately 500 meters to the wounded. There was four on the ground that I treated immediately when I got there.
WIAN: All the soldiers lived. Kobes was awarded the Army's third highest honor, a Silver Star, for risking his life to save others.
KOBES: I don't know. I wouldn't call myself a hero, I guess. But just doing my job. I'm happy. I'm proud, you know, to save lives over in Iraq.
WIAN: Now Kobes focuses on the lives of his family. He wants to buy a new home for his wife Erica (ph) and their two sons. Kobes plans to stay in the National Guard and hopes for a future career in law enforcement.
Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In fact, Specialist Kobes says he would like to work for the Border Patrol or somewhere else within the Department of Homeland Security. And of course, we all wish Specialist Kobes and his family all the very best.
Still ahead here, the results of our poll tonight. A preview of what's ahead Monday. And we'll be talking with Ken and Daria Dolan, unscripted as always. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, the result of tonight's poll. Sixty-four percent of you do not support closing more than 30 of our major military installations all across the country; 36 percent of you do.
United Airlines and its workers still trying to reach a deal on union contracts, raising the question are unions making promises they can't deliver on, and are companies making promises they don't intend to deliver on? Is the government too worried about bailing out the airline industry? Well, I'm joined now by Ken and Daria Dolan, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED."
KEN DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": See you later. (INAUDIBLE) depressed me. See you later. Goodbye.
DOBBS: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Daria, I guess I'm going to have to talk to you. I could tell that right away.
DARIA DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": You come to the brains.
DOBBS: The idea that, first of all, these airlines can back out of pension deals for their workers...
D. DOLAN: Well, not exactly. They can't really back out. They have to get a bankruptcy judge to intercede on their behalf.
K. DOLAN: He's right. A rose by any other name. The four pension funds, they're under now the government care. That's backing out. Thank you and good night.
DOBBS: And just a few billion dollars more from the federal government, you know, I guess they will be able to make it, huh?
K. DOLAN: You know, I was thinking of a business idea, but I was worried that I'd go out of business, that I couldn't pay my employees the pension funds that I give -- that I had promised them, so I don't have to worry. PBGC, I got good friends there.
DOBBS: Well, why don't we just do the intelligent thing, because taxpayers are supporting them, they're not keeping their promises, these airlines to their employees. Why don't we nationalize them and get it over with? Because apparently, they can't run a private enterprise.
K. DOLAN: They can't do it themselves, no.
D. DOLAN: Well, but a part of -- a large part of the problem -- and you're talking to an old flight attendant, heavy on the old...
K. DOLAN: Veteran. Veteran flight attendant.
D. DOLAN: That's right, I like that better.
K. DOLAN: Yeah.
D. DOLAN: These union contracts are too rich for what the airlines have to do.
K. DOLAN: From the good days.
D. DOLAN: On the financial side, the airlines did not...
DOBBS: Don't tell me you want to outsource -- don't tell me you want to outsource those jobs?
D. DOLAN: No, no, no. No, no, no. But they don't even hedge their fuel costs sufficiently.
K. DOLAN: The old contracts...
D. DOLAN: Because they're bad contracts, old contracts, the airlines are -- make no mistake, the senior guys will figure out a way to make money. But if the rest of the airlines now join the bandwagon -- and why wouldn't they? It's anti-competitive. You are looking at another $40 billion tacked onto the PBCG.
DOBBS: Well, whether you are sitting there putting the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation up against to back up this, the fact is the airlines aren't taking care of their employees, union contracts or not. They're not taking care of business. They're being run by people who are frankly -- I wouldn't want to have over for coffee to discuss...
K. DOLAN: Lou, you and I and Daria are good friends. Can I say two words to you without totally (INAUDIBLE) you?
DOBBS: Make it quick.
K. DOLAN: Auto industry.
DOBBS: OK.
K. DOLAN: Right behind the airlines. Trouble coming.
DOBBS: They are -- but there are a lot of national policies in trade that will make that necessary to have that discussion, which I know you will on "THE DOLANS UNSCRIPTED..."
D. DOLAN: You got it.
DOBBS: 10:00 a.m., right here on CNN, tomorrow morning.
K. DOLAN: Thanks, Lou. Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: That's "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED" tomorrow morning 10:00 a.m.
K. DOLAN: 10:00 Eastern.
DOBBS: I didn't want to flog that too much.
K. DOLAN: Never too much.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here Monday. The debate over evolution, intelligent design, and what we should be teaching in our schools. It could be a deciding factor in one Pennsylvania election. And we'll be joined Monday by four of the brightest young scientists in this country. Please be with us.
For all of us here, thanks for being with us. Have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Hey, Lou, thanks very much. Have a great weekend.
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 13, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the Pentagon has announced a huge military base closing. It is the biggest, in fact, in two decades. Tens of thousands of jobs will be lost if Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has his way. We'll have complete coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Also ahead on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, bloody Iraq: insurgent attacks escalate sharply. How strong is the insurgency? A special report.
In "Heroes," an Army medic decorated twice for bravery in Iraq: he says he was just doing his job. We'll have his inspiring story.
And mass arrests in Cuba: hundreds of young people rounded up. They committed no crimes. The U.S. State Department says it's outrageous.
This is LOU DOBBS, for news, debate and opinion, tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, hundreds of communities all across the country are bracing for a huge job cut under the military's largest base closing in 20 years. The Pentagon wants to close 33 major facilities. It also wants to significantly cut troop numbers at 29 other bases. Ten thousand military, 18,000 civilian jobs will be lost.
From the Pentagon, Jamie McIntyre reports on the scope and scale of these base closings. And from Capitol Hill, Joe Johns reports on lawmakers, who are already fighting tonight to save jobs.
We begin with Jamie at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it's been 10 years since the Pentagon has been able to close any bases, and it appears they're making up for lost time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will hear us. And they will (INAUDIBLE).
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The Pentagon's plan sparked predictable outrage at bases like Maine's Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government's going to close us down and cut their military down when we're at war. It doesn't make much sense to me.
MCINTYRE: The proposed closings, including Virginia's sprawling Fort Monroe, home of the Army's training and doctrine command, are the biggest ever recommended by the Pentagon. That comes as a rude shock after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld hinted just a day earlier his shut-down plans would be scaled back.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The department is recommending fewer major base closures than had earlier been anticipated due in part to the return of tens of thousands of troops.
MCINTYRE: What the Pentagon unveiled is essentially the mother of all base closings, 33 major bases closed, including the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and New London Submarine Base in New England; Fort Gillem and Fort McPherson in Georgia; Fort Monroe, Virginia; Pascagoula Naval Station, Mississippi; Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota; and Cannon Air Force base, New Mexico. The mayor of nearby Clovis, New Mexico, is vowing to save his base.
MAYOR DAVID LANSFORD, CLOVIS, NEW MEXICO: Because our resolve is to put forth the greatest fight that this community his ever put forth, because we have the right cause, the right people and the resources to win.
MCINTYRE: Twenty-nine major bases would be downsized, including the Rock Island Arsenal and Great Lakes Naval Air Station in Illinois; Fort Eustis, Virginia; and 10 Air Force bases, including Pope in North Carolina; Lackland and Sheppard in Texas; Grand Forks in North Dakota; Maxwell in Alabama; Mountain Home, Idaho; McChord in Washington; and Elmendorf in Alaska. And 775 smaller bases would be closed or consolidated, nearly three times the number of smaller facilities affected by all four previous base-closing rounds combined.
One example of consolidation, historic Walter Reed Army Medical Center will be relocated and merged with the Bethesda Naval Hospital outside of Washington. Pentagon officials say with both hospitals under-utilized, it just makes sense for the Army and Navy to join forces.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: There's a good reason that the Pentagon's base-closing list is so long this time. The process is so politically painful, Pentagon officials are well aware they may not get another chance to close bases anytime soon -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
On Capitol Hill, lawmakers representing districts that would lose bases declared they are determined to block the Pentagon's proposal. But some lawmakers were pleased with the Pentagon's plan, because their districts will keep bases that were threatened once with closure.
Congressional Correspondent Joe Johns with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An Armed Service Honor Guard fanned out across Capitol Hill delivering the news. For many, it was bad.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: We are not going to let this recommendation stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today the Pentagon made a substantial national security mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today's Friday the 13th. And that's not a good day.
JOHNS: Many of the most affected members of Congress were already in their home states doing damage control.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: The fact is that this plan put forth by the Pentagon makes absolutely no sense at all.
JOHNS: Among the hardest hit states, Maine, Mississippi Connecticut, and South Dakota. Political clout was no shield.
Former Republican Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott took a hit. The Pentagon recommended closing the Pascagoula Naval Station in Mississippi.
Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who beat Democratic leader Tom Daschle in last year's election, campaigned, saying his ties to President Bush might help save Ellsworth Air Force Base. He will now have to campaign to keep it open.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: We can't blow happy smoke about this. This is an uphill fight once you make it on the list.
JOHNS: Even senators from states that got off lightly found something to criticize. Texas actually increases overall number of military personnel, but the installation slated for closure included one that has been busy installing much-needed armor on Humvees destined for Iraq.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Well that doesn't make sense obviously. It's -- the military value of up-armored Humvees is high.
JOHNS: The chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, California Representative Duncan Hunter, said the states have the right to appeal to the base closing commission.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Nobody has 100 percent record of winning these things. So you win some, you lose some.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: The commission now begins a series of field hearings and visits to affected installations. It is expected to deliver a final report to the president in September -- Lou.
DOBBS: Joe, thank you. Joe Johns from Capitol Hill.
Military bases in all 50 states would be affected by the Pentagon plan. Two of the biggest bases targeted for closure are in Georgia and New Jersey.
In Georgia, Fort McPherson, headquarters of the Army's forces command, would be closed. So will Fort Monmouth in New Jersey, an Army research facility that specializes in communications and electronic warfare.
Mary Snow reports from Fort Monmouth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not difficult to see the military's presence outside the gates of Fort Monmouth from the local barber shop to the town center. For businesses here, the military's presence is also felt.
Take Sam Sinno's Pizzeria, which draws a big lunch crowd from the base.
SAM SINNO, PIZZERIA OWNER: I would say that I would lose probably about 50 percent of my business.
JOHN POITRAS, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES: The economic impact to this area is going to be pretty devastating.
SNOW: John Poitras resrepresents civilian employees who work at the Army research base that employs almost 5,000 civilians and more than 600 military members.
POITRAS: That's dollars and cents that goes into the economy here. Revenues for schools, businesses.
SNOW: Businesses like Branch's Catering.
JOHN LOMBARDO, BRANCH'S CATERING: People like my cooks and dish washers who would be affected. So we're definitely going to make a strong case for ourselves.
SNOW: John Lombardo base his business close to Fort Monmouth. He is part of a group fighting to keep it open.
The mayor Eatontown says this isn't the first time there's been talk about closing Fort Monmouth. This time he's not certain if it will be able to remain open, but he says he knows there is a plan B.
MAYOR GERALD TARANTOLO, EATONTOWN, NEW JERSEY: If you look at what's happening real estate-wise in this area, I am sure there are developers chafing at the bit, at the news of Fort Monmouth's closing. We're dealing with between 600 to 800 acres of prime real estate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: New Jersey lawmakers and residents who gathered here this afternoon for a town hall meeting are not giving up their fight to keep the base open. Lawmakers say by closing it, the economic impact to this community could be over $3 billion -- Lou.
DOBBS: Mary, thank you very much.
Fort McPherson in Georgia is one of the biggest employers in the Atlanta area. Thousands of jobs there could be lost, but the impact in the rest of Georgia is not as bad as had been originally feared.
Sara Dorsey reports from Fort McPherson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll believe that when they put the padlock on the gate.
SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fort McPherson, along with six other Georgia military installations, is on the Pentagon's recommended chopping block. Despite that, Georgia officials are optimistic, because in the same breath, the Pentagon is recommending seven other Georgia military bases bolstered.
Georgia's Senator Johnny Isakson says things could have been much worse.
SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON (R), GEORGIA: ... from the fact that for the entire state, we have a net gain of 7,400 jobs. Georgia is the second largest winner in the BRAC realignment and closing process, second only to the state of Maryland. And so we have a lot to be thankful for, but we're here because we care about every single job and every single opportunity. And we think we've got a great opportunity to restore Fort Mac, and we're going to make every effort to do so.
SNOW: More than 4,000 people, both civilian and military personnel at Fort McPherson, will either have to relocate or be out of a job if the recommendations are passed. Nearly 1,500 people at the naval air station in Atlanta will be in the same boat, along with more than 1,000 at Fort Gillem.
But the state has a net increase in jobs because Fort Benning stands to gain nearly 10,000 people. Kings Bay Submarine Base will increase by more than 3,000, and Robins Air Force Base will grow by nearly 800 if the recommendations are passed.
Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue says overall the state lucked out. But people like Daryll Sims, a civilian who works maintenance at Fort McPherson, don't necessarily agree.
(on camera): Are you a little nervous that you may lose your job? DARYLL SIMS, CIVILIAN BASE EMPLOYEE: A little bit, because you never know, you know? It's a good place to work. I'd like to stay out here for a long time.
SNOW: Many politicians and people working here at Fort McPherson say they've been in this same situation before, facing the threat of being closed down. They say they will only believe it when the final decision is made.
Sara Dorsey, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: One of the biggest concentrations of military bases in this country is in the state of California. But California escaped with only a small number of base closures. Defense analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute says that's partly because the Pentagon deems future threats to this country will originate East Asia.
Naval power will be a key factor in any future conflict with any nation in Asia. The San Diego Naval Base is the home port for one- third of the Pacific fleet. Aircraft carrier strike groups based in San Diego have a key role in projecting American military power throughout the Pacific.
Another key facility in southern California is the U.S. Marine Corps base at Camp Pendleton. The base is home to the 1st Marine Division, a powerful fighting force of nearly 20,000 Marines. That division can be quickly deployed to trouble spots and carry out amphibious operations.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you support closing more than 30 major military installations now across the country, yes or no? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results at the end of the broadcast.
Still ahead, how the United States plans to respond to the latest wave of insurgent attacks in Iraq.
And the nuclear option. The battle over the president's judicial nominees and filibusters escalates in the Senate. We'll have that report and a great deal more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: History could be made in Washington, D.C., next week. An expected Senate battle over President Bush's judicial nominees could be only days away, in fact. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist today said he will seek confirmation as early as Tuesday for two conservative judges whose nominations have been blocked by Democrats.
Senator Frist also vowed to use the so-called nuclear option to win approval for justices Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown. That would mean changing Senate rules to block the use of a filibuster. Separately tonight, Democrats are vowing to use procedural measures to delay the nomination of John Bolton as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Senator Boxer of California has exercised her option to put a hold on the nomination until the State Department releases more information about John Bolton's record.
Boxer's move contradicts a statement that she made eight years ago. In that statement, Senator Boxer said, "According to the U.S. Constitution, the president nominates, and the Senate shall provide advice and consent. It is not the role of the Senate to obstruct the process and prevent numbers of highly qualified nominees from even being given the opportunity for a vote on the Senate floor."
Senator Boxer is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. That committee voted yesterday to send Bolton's nomination to the full Senate for a vote without a recommendation. The White House maintains Bolton is the right person for the job.
In Iraq, an American soldier has been killed. He was killed when a car bomb exploded next to a U.S. patrol north of Baghdad. Four other American soldiers were wounded.
Violence has escalated in recent weeks in Iraq. The number of suicide bomb attacks has increased sharply.
Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violence in Iraq is unrelenting and brutal. It is Iraqi civilians and security forces who are dying.
As many as 400 Iraqis killed in the last two weeks, according to officials. Insurgent attacks now number around 60 a day. It's lower than the level before the January election, but more deadly. In April alone, 135 car bombs, the most ever.
Even if the violence decreases, a sober assessment on how long the U.S. might be involved in Iraq.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: The one thing we know about insurgency is they last from, you know, three, four years to nine years. These are -- these are tough fights.
STARR: A democratic Iraqi government and an Iraqi security forces trained to control the country even with escalating violence remains the strategy.
MYERS: This is not something that we're going to go out and knee-jerk to every time. This is a thinking and adapting adversary. They are thinking and adapting. The vehicle-born improvised explosive device is a very tough device to thwart.
STARR: A senior U.S. military official tells CNN it is the number of suicide car bombers, those responsible for most of the carnage, that has been a surprise. In Baghdad, where dozens of car bombs have gone off, commanders say Iraqi security forces are on the job, but the violence has become worse.
COL. JOSEPH P. DISALVO, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: And they're targeting innocent civilians with the suicide-homicide bombers in their cars. The actual number of events have decreased, to tell you the truth, over the past month. However, the fewer events are a little bit more lethal because they're targeting innocent civilians.
STARR: The U.S. offense in western Iraq is aimed at wiping out a haven for foreign fighters stockpiling car bombs and weapons. But another surprise, when insurgents stood their ground and fought. Now, dozens captured and killed. Nobody knows how many may have fled.
(on camera): So how strong is the insurgency? U.S. military commanders say it has the same capacity to launch attacks that had one year ago.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: 1,614 Americans have now been killed in Iraq.
Coming up next here, "Heroes," our weekly salute to the men and women who serve the nation. Tonight, the story of an Army medic who saved the lives of Iraqi soldiers under heavy mortar fire. We will tell you about the honors that the military is bestowing upon him.
And then, hundreds of teenagers arrested in Cuba. Their friends, their relatives say they've committed no crimes. So why are they being arrested? Our special report is coming up next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, an astounding development in Cuba. Many Cuban citizens are reporting that police and authorities there have arrested hundreds of young men and women since the beginning of this year. They were arrested even those young Cubans committed no crimes
Lucia Newman reports from Havana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the crowded low-income neighborhood of central Havana, the stepfather of an imprisoned 17-year-old boy takes us up to his tiny apartment to meet his wife. She's packing a sack of food.
"They're going to take to my son tomorrow on visiting day," says Maribel Cuello. The mother of 17-year-old Aliandan Cia-Cuello (ph) says she can't accept that her boy, a student, was sentenced to two years in prison without being accused of committing any crime. "The neighborhood police chief said my son was a potential delinquent and shouldn't be on the street because he dressed well and had access to foreign currency. That was his crime, dressing well, even though the lawyer presented all the receipts from Western Union showing his father sent him money every month from the United States."
An isolated case? Anything but.
(on camera): For the last few months, people have been approaching CNN here in Havana to complain that their children aged between 16 and 21 are being arrested under a law that hasn't been applied for years. It's called pre-crime dangerousness, and it allows the courts to put anyone in jail for up to four years.
No evidence necessary. Just a presumption that he or she may want to commit a crime.
(voice-over): At least 400 youngsters have been sentenced up to four years and sent to high security prisons this year, according to the head of the opposition human rights commission, who calls the government's action a social cleansing campaign.
ELIZARDO SANCHEZ, HUMAN RIGHTS & RECONCILIATION COMMISSION (through translator): Legally speaking, they're all innocent because they haven't committed any crime. This provision existed in the days of Hitler and Stalin. And I think in North Korea it may still exist.
NEWMAN: A lot of those rounded up, like (INAUDIBLE) husband, was suspected of making money, hanging around foreign tourists, and sentenced to four years in prison. "Maybe it's because there's so many delinquents robbing tourists on the streets that anyone who associates with a tourist ends up paying for their crimes, says Lisette (ph).
CNN asked the attorney general's office to explain the arrests and was told there would be no comment. The latest police sweep may be a government reaction to growing crimes, especially in Havana, where more and more young people refuse to take low-paying jobs.
Cuba's own constitution guarantees due process. But Maribel Cuello, whose son was jailed without committing a crime, doesn't believe it. "There's nothing I can do," she says, :nothing."
Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Pre-crime dangerousness a crime in Cuba.
In reaction it those arrests in Cuba, one State Department official told us that it is outrageous that the Cuban regime apparently is responding to high unemployment by arresting these young people and putting them in jail. In addition, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Cuba an outpost of tyranny just this week.
Coming up next, unfair trade, why China's latest effort to shut out American manufacturing could lead to an all-out trade war with the United States.
Also ahead tonight, one state wants to form its own border police force to do what the federal government has failed to do, secure our nation's borders.
And in "Heroes," a young Army medic whose extraordinary courage under fire has earned him one of the military's most distinguished honors.
Those stories and a great deal more all coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a stunning reversal, the Bush administration today declared it will reimpose quotas on three categories of Chinese textile imports that have flooded the U.S. market. Imports of cotton shirts, trousers and underwear from China have surged since quotas limiting those imports were lifted in December. Shirt and trouser imports rose by about 1,500 percent each. The new safeguards will limit the growth of those Chinese textiles to imports in the United States to 7.5 percent each year.
Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said, "Today's action demonstrates this administration's commitment to leveling the playing field to U.S. industry by enforcing our trade agreements."
While today's decision is certainly a step in the right direction, the decision comes too late for nearly 400,000 American textile workers whose jobs have been wiped out over the past four years. It is estimated by many that today's action by the Bush administration, however, will save tens of thousands of other jobs.
Congress today also took on China's unfair trade practices, specifically lawmakers blasting China's new plan to effectively shut out imports of any American or any foreign-made software. One lawmaker warned China that any such move could trigger sharp retaliation from Congress and possibly even a trade war.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China is the second largest market for personal computers in the world, but under proposed restrictive rules, American companies who want to sell software to the Chinese government would have to register copyrights first in China, manufacture all their products in China, and conduct 50 percent of their research and development in China. The discriminatory rules would effectively close the door to non-Chinese companies.
MARK BOHANNON, SOFTWARE & INFORMATION IND. ASSN: We've really never seen any kind of regime like this that tries to isolate a software industry the way that this Chinese proposal has.
SYLVESTER: When China joined the World Trade Organization, it agreed to sign the general procurement agreement, which outlines rules of fair play for awarding contracts. But it has yet to do so. The U.S. Trade Representative's Office told lawmakers, China may throw up similar barriers in other industries.
CHARLES FREEMAN, ASST. U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: It could very well be the tip of the iceberg. If this is, clearly, the first sector that they have targeted, but there are others that are out there.
SYLVESTER: Congressional members are threatening to retaliate, closing the U.S. government market to Chinese suppliers.
REP. TOM DAVIS, (R) VIRGINIA: There are a lot of vulnerabilities the Chinese need to understand. They better add up the dollars and cents before they try to start getting into the this.
SYLVESTER: Lawmakers say China would be on the losing end of a trade war. Chinese exports to the United States equal 10 percent of the country's GDP.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The U.S. trade deficit with China is $162 billion. The new regulations would hit one of the very few industries where the United States still has a trade surplus -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, it is at least possibly said Washington is awakening to the fact that free trade is hardly free, particularly when the Chinese so arrogantly would close out an American import while sustaining that $162 billion surplus from the United States, as you pointed out.
SYLVESTER: Well, it is at least a positive development, Lisa, that Washington is awakening to the fact that free trade is hardly free. Particularly when the Chinese so arrogantly would close out American import while sustaining that $162 billion surplus from the United States as you pointed out.
SYLVESTER: Indeed, Lou. That's one of those things that Congress has become more aware. I think it's just the repeated message over and over again that there's a real difference between free trade and fair trade. And time and time again, we have seen the Chinese where they haven't exactly been playing with level playing field -- Lou.
DOBBS: Level playing field. If it's a field, we're the ones getting leveled. Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Another so-called free trade issue that soon will go before Congress, the Central American Free Trade Agreement. The White House has been aggressively pushing CAFTA, even though recent polls show most Americans are opposed to CAFTA and they're certainly not alone. People in the six countries of CAFTA, including the Dominican Republic, are equally skeptical of CAFTA and for very good reasons. Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the streets of Central America, outrage over a trade deal protesters say was written by multinational corporations for their benefit. Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have formerly approved CAFTA. Debate continues in the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and Costa Rica. And of course in the United States, where Central American labor and human rights leaders have come to lobby against it.
IGNACIO HERNANDEZ, FED OF FREE TRADE ZONE WORKERS (through translator): The current free trade deal, rather than helping workers, is going to make things worse. It will weaken protection of workers rights, and undoubtedly cause job losses.
ROMANS: If NAFTA is any guide, ten years after that agreement, thousands of Mexicans a day flee their poverty, and illegally enter the U.S. Mexico's minimum wage has tumbled 20 percent to just $4 a day. But CAFTA supporters say this deal is necessary, despite the possible short-term pain.
PETER HAKIM, PRES. INTER-AMERICAN DIALOGUE: Trade agreements and trade liberalization, trade opening have helped virtually every economy that's done that. The only question is who within the economy gets those benefits. And what happens to those people who are left behind?
ROMANS: Supporters say the deal would help the CAFTA countries, including the U.S., compete with China. Opponents fear it's a race to the bottom.
REP. XAVIER BECERRA, (D) CALIFORNIA: This trade deal, I fear, sets us up to go in the direction -- or perhaps Central American go in the direction -- of looking more and more like china where it's that Darwinian theory that the survival of the fit set of who determines who wins. And if 60 cents an hour is what you pay, the only way for the other guys survives is to lower his wages to match yours.
ROMANS: Central American wages are high compared with China where manufacturing workers earn just 30 cents an hour. Many fear Central American wages would only be driven lower.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The biggest winners of that would be the large multinationals. The losers? The American workers whose jobs get moved offshore and the Central American workers whose already low rages just keep falling, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, it's easy to see why there is great enthusiasm for this brilliant idea of CAFTA, it's just more of the same.
ROMANS: Indeed. There's a lot of concern. And your seeing it in the streets of Central America as well.
DOBBS: It's about time someone started thinking about the middle class in this country and perhaps a few other countries as well, as you pointed out. Christine thanks. Christine Romans. Mexican president Vicente Fox is once again blasting the United States for something that is none of his business, or should be his business, depending on how one looks at it, and that is the U.S. national security.
President Fox says Mexico will formerly protest the newly passed and signed into law Real I.D. Act designed to strengthen U.S. border security and make it difficult for illegal aliens, including millions of Mexican citizens, from obtaining driver's licenses.
Fox also protested plans to extend border fences, saying Mexico is opposed to any barriers between the two countries. After a millions and millions of his citizens have crossed that border illegally, it is rather apparent the position of the Vicente Fox government.
In California, one state assemblyman has offered a bold new proposal to crack down on the flood of illegal aliens crossing the Mexican-California border. Assemblyman Ray Haynes has proposed a new state funded police force that would be solely for securing that border.
The mission of the California Border Police would be comprehensive statewide enforcement of federal emigration laws. Assemblyman Haynes joins us tonight from Irvine, California. Good to have you with us.
RAY HAYNES, (R) CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: Good evening.
DOBBS: How in the world -- when we have got local police agencies, other state governments saying that immigration isn't our responsibility, what makes you think that California could put forward a police force to secure your border with Mexico?
HAYNES: Well, Californians understand that California bears a disproportionate share of the cost of illegal immigration. And the only way that we're going to really control it is by saying -- and quit complaining to the federal government -- and saying, we're going to do it ourselves.
DOBBS: Do it yourselves, but idea that states would take responsibility for a border which obviously the federal government has not done, where do you find authority to do so?
HAYNES: Well, in the federal law, the Immigration Naturalization Act of 1996 there is a provision that allows state and local governments to do it, number one. And number two, states do have general police powers granted to them by the U.S. constitution that allows them to do it as well.
The only reason you really need the Immigration Naturalization Act is once the state has control of the illegal alien is what to do with them. And you have got to prosecute them, you have got deport them, you've got take the various actions to make sure that they actually do go home.
So you have to have a deal with the feds to make that happen. But that's really all you need.
DOBBS: What has been the reaction? You have put forward a new initiative. What's been the reaction amongst the lawmakers in California? And your constituents?
HAYNES: Well, my constituent think it's great. I happen to represent the largely rural part of San Diego County where the illegal aliens cross. They go through my constituent's backyards to get into the interior of California. that's number one.
Number two, among lawmakers, depending on which side of the fence you happen to be on, they understand. My lawmaker colleagues understand that we're paying about $9 to $10 billion a year for welfare and medical care, prison costs and education costs for illegal aliens. So they know that to save that money, we've got to do something. It's either whine to the federal government or take control of the concept ourselves.
DOBBS: Well, that's an intriguing analysis of benefit and expenditure. What do you think it would cost the state of California to provide its own border police?
HAYNES: Well, it's going to cost use -- based on our highway patrol -- it's probably going to cost us about $200 to $300 million to provide the police. But we're going it save for every $1 of enforcement that we spend, we're going to save $9 to $10, literally, on social service costs.
DOBBS: Well, Assemblyman Haynes, this I have to say is a remarkably rational and cogent idea. It strikes me as such. I wish you well on it.
You know today President Vicente Fox said he was going to form a -- he's going to issue a diplomatic protest against signing into law the Real I.D. Act, which would make it difficult for illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses, which will restrict the rights of asylum. What do you think he'll say about your measure?
HAYNES: Well, I don't get why he would complain about it. I do understand that he's concerned. We send about $17 billion worth of revenue to Mexico each year. So cutting that off might be a problem. But it's done in a system of abuse. His citizens would be better off with us enforcing our laws. So he should support us.
DOBBS: Assemblyman, we thank you for being here. We appreciate it.
HAYNES: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight, "Do you support closing more than 30 major military installations all across this country? Yes or no." Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results for you in just a few minutes.
Coming up next, a critical battle over one of the president's judicial nominees, one of his appointments to be the U.S. ambassador the United Nations. How the nomination of John Bolton to be U.N. ambassador will fare in the full Senate. I'll be joined by three of the country's top political journalists next.
And then, our salute to our nation's heroes. We will have the remarkable story of an Army medic who risked his own life to save the lives of others. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now from Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine.
Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times," in New York.
Mark Morrison "Business Week" magazine. Thank you all for being here. Lets start with the base closings. Let me turn to you, Mark, why now and what in the world kind of firestorm has been created?
MARK MORRISON, BUSINESSWEEK: Well, the usual firestorm that you create when you start closing bases and reduces forces. But these are things that every now and then the military has to do to try to be a little more efficient, and try to get position correctly for its strategic mission.
DOBBS: In Washington, Ron, the idea that these bases would be closed at a time when we're short-handed, in terms of the men and women who are serving the country, does this -- is this a smart time to take this on.
RON BROWNSTEIN, LOS ANGELES TIMES: I think probably it is, Lou. I mean, I'm not sure the two are related in terms of the size of the military and the question closing these bases. We haven't had a round base closings since...
DOBBS: They have to have a place it work, Ron.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, the question is whether's excess capacity? In fact, you know, some of the -- some of the bases will be gaining a number of people on them as a result of this. We haven't done this since 1995. We went though four rounds from 1998 -- '88 though '95. Congress has delayed it, but I think that by in large, this process has worked well in the past. There is extensive opportunity for public comment and there will be plenty of political argument, all politics is local on this. But in the end, this is probably something that's overdue.
DOBBS: Karen, the European, the E-3, basically have joined with the United States, and said Iran go no farther with your nuclear weapons program. Are you surprised, and is this support critical to what must be done in the months?
KAREN TUMULTY, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, surprise not entirely, and it's in part because Iran has been so aggressive in sort of flouting the -- what has been negotiated. I mean, just this week they announced that they would be moving ahead on enriching uranium. I think the Europeans are just starting to get exasperated. What appears...
DOBBS: They are where -- they are where the Bush administration was sometime ago.
TUMULTY: Precisely. And as a result -- and Condi Rice did a lot of work on bringing everybody together when she was in Europe. And as a result, I think it's far more likely that this question is going to end up where the Bush administration has wanted it to end up which is in the U.N.
BROWNSTEIN: You know, Lou, there's interesting contrast here with North Korea. If you look at it as Karen was saying, we are moving closer into alignment with the European allies on how it handle Iran. By contrast with North Korea, we continue to have all sorts of strains with China and South Korea over what to do next in the situation that is if anything more perilous at moment. On one front there, is progress. On another, there's a great deal of uncertainty.
DOBBS: There seem to be strong hegemonic (ph) forces at work here. Traditional allies, as you put it, with Western Europe and with China, and -- not willing to confront North Korea. In fact, now appearing to be an obstructionist in whatever talk, and whatever progress can be made there. Seeming to take on greater influence to push await United States. Do you sense the same thing, Karen?
TUMULTY: I do indeed. And also the South Koreans have -- have also been critical of the Bush administration. Saying essentially they've ratcheted the rhetoric too high. This is making it harder and harder for the Bush administration, for this country to avoid a more direct engagement with the North Koreans.
MORRISON: However, I think that, -- you know, at some point, if there is an opening where -- where the administration feels like it really can get something out of a one on one sit down with -- with that crazy regime over there, that that will probably happen. But this is, you know, it's very hard to second guess as we're dealing with a totally irrational leader there. And it's most dangerous of these two situations vs. Iran I would say.
DOBBS: I want to draw...
MORRISON: Because you can have these weapons suddenly pop up in the hands of the terrorists from the North Koreans.
DOBBS: As well as the Iranians. I think we might point out there Mark. The fact is that there's a lot of talk about structure, about the way to proceed, about alliances -- even hegemony. But the fact is, no one's talking about what the solution here, the end result should be of any talk, any structure of talks.
Ron, any thoughts on that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I was just thinking, Lou, this is a problem we've been dealing with for -- at a high level for over a decade. The Clinton administration, you know, says almost came to war to try to prevent from North Korea from becoming nuclear armed. It's not clear there's a military option that would be acceptable. It's really not clear what the answer is going to be here. The greatest hope has been that, as you say, China would exert pressure and other trading partners would exert pressure. But that is a fading hope, too. We're all, I think, across the western world, look for an answer.
DOBBS: Mark, filibuster. The nuclear option, so-called, fortunately a different type of nuclear option. Should the filibuster remain as part as the Senate's arcane rules? Is it reasonable to have a minority within the Senate obstruct?
MORRISON: I would like to see the filibuster stay in place. I think what you have here is a reaction to very extreme animosity between the two sides. We have to change the rules that have been in effect for a long time to accommodate this one particular -- that's a long time, even by my standards, to accommodate this very ugly separation between the two parties.
TUMULTY: This isn't just a partisan separation, though. In many ways this is an argument between the sort of young turks in the Senate. The people who've never known on the Republicans' side what it feels like to be in the minority who do. And some very senior Republicans who do.
DOBBS: And, Ron, should it stay or should it go? It seems on the one hand obstructionist. It's been historically used by obstructionist of the majority will. Why is it any different this time? Why shouldn't just simply be put -- be put in the dust heap of history?
BROWNSTEIN: The Nick Jones question, should I say or should I go? Look, right now eliminating the filibuster will be another centrifical force in Washington. It will increased polarization, increased confrontation between the parties at a time when there is a great need in the country for leaders who can build consensus. And I am afraid that if the filibuster's removed, we will get more decisive fights over the judicial nomination and everything else.
DOBBS: My only problem there, Ron, is I can't see how it could be any more polarized.
Ron Brownstein, Karen Tumulty, Mark Morrison, thank you all for being here.
MORRISON: Thanks, Lou.
TUMULTY: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360," of course, and Anderson is here to tell us what it's all about next -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Lou, thanks very much.
Yes, in about 12 minutes from now, a good news story coming up on "360." She's known simply as hotel girl, the nameless, faceless child authorities have been searching years for. She has been found and she is safe. It's a remarkable story of inventive police work and dedication. We'll bring that to you and an interview with crime fighter John Walsh about how you can keep your kids safe.
Also tonight, allegations that one of the main ingredients in your pots and pans could cause birth defects. We'll bring you all of the angles on that one and a lot more -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you, Anderson, have a great weekend.
"Heroes:" a national guard soldier says he was just doing his job. But for that, he has received the military's -- two of the military's highest honors. His remarkable story is next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In "Heroes" this week, we introduce you to a young Army medic who was awarded two of the Army's highest honors for his bravery. Washington National Guard Specialist Gerrit Kobes was award an Army Commendation Medal and the Silver Star for his service in Iraq. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gerrit Kobes works the assembly line, putting together wood stoves in a factory in Colville, Washington. At 23, he's one of the youngest workers, but he commands respect for his service in Iraq. Kobes, a medic, earned an Army Commendation Medal with valor, just two months into his year-long deployment. Shrapnel hit a soldier in the head, leaving him gravely wounded.
SPECIALIST GERRIT KOBES, ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: I intubated him with a tube, to breathe for him, and started breathing for him. There was no movement. He had a slight -- a weak pulse. We got him into the ambulance. I rode with him in the ambulance. I didn't expect him to make it. He went through four hours of neurosurgery.
WIAN: The soldier lived. The experience left Kobes a changed man.
KOBES: There's a soldier that got to go home to his family because of what everybody did that day. So it was a great, great day for me.
This is probably the most important award to me. Made me believe in myself a lot.
WIAN: Months later, Kobes distinguished himself again, this time braving mortar fire to save the lives of Iraqi soldiers during an attack on their convoy.
KOBES: I put my head gear back on, and we ran through, you know -- there is few vehicles here and there for cover. A lot of open ground. And we ran approximately 500 meters to the wounded. There was four on the ground that I treated immediately when I got there.
WIAN: All the soldiers lived. Kobes was awarded the Army's third highest honor, a Silver Star, for risking his life to save others.
KOBES: I don't know. I wouldn't call myself a hero, I guess. But just doing my job. I'm happy. I'm proud, you know, to save lives over in Iraq.
WIAN: Now Kobes focuses on the lives of his family. He wants to buy a new home for his wife Erica (ph) and their two sons. Kobes plans to stay in the National Guard and hopes for a future career in law enforcement.
Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In fact, Specialist Kobes says he would like to work for the Border Patrol or somewhere else within the Department of Homeland Security. And of course, we all wish Specialist Kobes and his family all the very best.
Still ahead here, the results of our poll tonight. A preview of what's ahead Monday. And we'll be talking with Ken and Daria Dolan, unscripted as always. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, the result of tonight's poll. Sixty-four percent of you do not support closing more than 30 of our major military installations all across the country; 36 percent of you do.
United Airlines and its workers still trying to reach a deal on union contracts, raising the question are unions making promises they can't deliver on, and are companies making promises they don't intend to deliver on? Is the government too worried about bailing out the airline industry? Well, I'm joined now by Ken and Daria Dolan, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED."
KEN DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": See you later. (INAUDIBLE) depressed me. See you later. Goodbye.
DOBBS: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Daria, I guess I'm going to have to talk to you. I could tell that right away.
DARIA DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": You come to the brains.
DOBBS: The idea that, first of all, these airlines can back out of pension deals for their workers...
D. DOLAN: Well, not exactly. They can't really back out. They have to get a bankruptcy judge to intercede on their behalf.
K. DOLAN: He's right. A rose by any other name. The four pension funds, they're under now the government care. That's backing out. Thank you and good night.
DOBBS: And just a few billion dollars more from the federal government, you know, I guess they will be able to make it, huh?
K. DOLAN: You know, I was thinking of a business idea, but I was worried that I'd go out of business, that I couldn't pay my employees the pension funds that I give -- that I had promised them, so I don't have to worry. PBGC, I got good friends there.
DOBBS: Well, why don't we just do the intelligent thing, because taxpayers are supporting them, they're not keeping their promises, these airlines to their employees. Why don't we nationalize them and get it over with? Because apparently, they can't run a private enterprise.
K. DOLAN: They can't do it themselves, no.
D. DOLAN: Well, but a part of -- a large part of the problem -- and you're talking to an old flight attendant, heavy on the old...
K. DOLAN: Veteran. Veteran flight attendant.
D. DOLAN: That's right, I like that better.
K. DOLAN: Yeah.
D. DOLAN: These union contracts are too rich for what the airlines have to do.
K. DOLAN: From the good days.
D. DOLAN: On the financial side, the airlines did not...
DOBBS: Don't tell me you want to outsource -- don't tell me you want to outsource those jobs?
D. DOLAN: No, no, no. No, no, no. But they don't even hedge their fuel costs sufficiently.
K. DOLAN: The old contracts...
D. DOLAN: Because they're bad contracts, old contracts, the airlines are -- make no mistake, the senior guys will figure out a way to make money. But if the rest of the airlines now join the bandwagon -- and why wouldn't they? It's anti-competitive. You are looking at another $40 billion tacked onto the PBCG.
DOBBS: Well, whether you are sitting there putting the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation up against to back up this, the fact is the airlines aren't taking care of their employees, union contracts or not. They're not taking care of business. They're being run by people who are frankly -- I wouldn't want to have over for coffee to discuss...
K. DOLAN: Lou, you and I and Daria are good friends. Can I say two words to you without totally (INAUDIBLE) you?
DOBBS: Make it quick.
K. DOLAN: Auto industry.
DOBBS: OK.
K. DOLAN: Right behind the airlines. Trouble coming.
DOBBS: They are -- but there are a lot of national policies in trade that will make that necessary to have that discussion, which I know you will on "THE DOLANS UNSCRIPTED..."
D. DOLAN: You got it.
DOBBS: 10:00 a.m., right here on CNN, tomorrow morning.
K. DOLAN: Thanks, Lou. Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: That's "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED" tomorrow morning 10:00 a.m.
K. DOLAN: 10:00 Eastern.
DOBBS: I didn't want to flog that too much.
K. DOLAN: Never too much.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here Monday. The debate over evolution, intelligent design, and what we should be teaching in our schools. It could be a deciding factor in one Pennsylvania election. And we'll be joined Monday by four of the brightest young scientists in this country. Please be with us.
For all of us here, thanks for being with us. Have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Hey, Lou, thanks very much. Have a great weekend.
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
