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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Collision Course; Explosive Showdown; China's Power Play; Illegal Immigration Deterrents
Aired May 17, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Coming up tonight, an explosive confrontation on Capitol Hill. A Senate committee facing off with a controversial British lawmaker accused of receiving oil rights in the United Nations oil-for-food scandal.
And Mexico's President Vicente Fox has refused to apologize over apparently racist comments about African-Americans. One of the men that he has invited to Mexico to discuss the issue, the Reverend Al Sharpton. Reverend Sharpton is our guest here tonight.
Our top story tonight, senators are on a collision course over judicial appointments and filibusters that could paralyze the entire Senate within a matter of hours, perhaps days. Republican and Democratic leaders in the Senate have ended their official negotiations to end the crisis. A confrontation on the Senate floor could begin as early as tomorrow.
Congressional Correspondent Joe Johns reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Republicans launched a media blitz for two stalled judges, Janice Rogers Brown and Pricilla Owen. They visited Capitol Hill and earlier the White House, where they met with President Bush himself.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The role of the Senate is to provide their advice and consent. It's not to provide advice and block.
JOHNS: Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid dug in further. Frist arguing that judges need a straight up-or-down vote.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: Are they really out of the mainstream, or is this really just politics? The best way to decide it is take it to the floor of the United States Senate.
JOHNS: Reid insisted Democrats have the right to block judges they oppose and accused Republicans of trying to break filibusters in a power grab. Reid, a former boxer, says Democrats are ready.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We have done everything that we could. We trained hard. The fight is about to begin.
JOHNS: The basic issue, Republicans want a simple majority vote on judges. But with a possible Supreme Court nomination looming, Democrats won't give up their right to demand 60 votes before controversial judicial nominations can go forward.
Perhaps the best prospect for averting a showdown lies with senators John McCain and Ben Nelson, a Republican and a Democrat trying to find a way out of the impasse. But those talks seem to be moving very slowly, while the rush towards a confrontation appears to be accelerating.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We'll just continue to work right up until the last minute trying to avert what could have severe repercussions, obviously, for our ability to conduct business for some period of time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Now, a meeting just ended of a group of about 12 Senate centrists, plus some of the key players in all of this, including the majority leader, the minority leader, McCain, and a variety of other people, including Ben Nelson. Ben Nelson telling us just a little while ago, "We hope we're getting closer." Still, no indication that they have been able to reach any type of an agreement -- Lou.
DOBBS: Any suggestion, Joe, that they are going to put off this test on the Senate floor, push it off perhaps until next week?
JOHNS: Well, that is the indication, that the test vote, when it comes, if it comes, will come around Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. That, of course, is the big moment. We are expecting speeches essentially for the rest of this week leading up to that -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the inference would be that the Republican leadership doesn't have the votes to win this confrontation, at least not right now.
JOHNS: The truth is, if you talk to Democrats and Republicans, liberals, moderates, conservatives, there are many, many people here who worked at the Senate for a very long time who don't have a clue how this would turn out if and when it reaches the Senate floor. A lot of people just don't know how those few moderates in the middle are going to go, Lou, and that's the big question.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And the question I know you will be looking to answer over the days, if not weeks, ahead of us. Joe Johns, thanks a lot from Capitol Hill.
Senators investigating the oil-for-food scandal today faced off with a controversial British lawmaker. He's accused of receiving lucrative oil rights from Saddam Hussein.
The British lawmaker, George Galloway, declared he has never been an oil trader, nor has oil ever been traded in his behalf. But the committee's chairman, Senator Norm Coleman, said Galloway is not a credible witness.
Our Senior United Nations Correspondent Richard Roth reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Taking the oath was about the only thing British parliament minister George Galloway accepted from the Senate committee investigating oil-for-food corruption. The fiery Galloway was accused by the committee last week of being rewarded by Saddam Hussein with the rights to 20 million barrels of oil for opposing economic sanctions. The committee chairman, Senator Norm Coleman, reminded him.
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: Senior Iraqi officials have confirmed that you, in fact, received oil allocations and that the documents that identify you as an allocation recipient are valid.
ROTH: Right from the start, Galloway went on the attack.
GEORGE GALLOWAY, BRITISH LAWMAKER: I have never seen a barrel of oil, owned one, bought one, sold one, and neither has anybody on my behalf. For a lawyer, you're remarkably cavalier with any idea of justice.
ROTH: Usually witnesses before congressional committee show deference, not the anti-war activist who vowed to appear with both barrels blazing.
GALLOWAY: Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong. And 100,000 people have paid with their lives, 1,600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies.
ROTH: The bipartisan committee report said Galloway funneled oil allocations through two companies and a charity named after a 4-year- old girl suffering from leukemia.
GALLOWAY: What counts is not the names on the paper. What counts is where's the money, Senator? Who paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars of money?
The answer to that is nobody. And if you had anybody whoever paid me a penny, you would have produced them here today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Senator Coleman and Senator Levin, his Democratic colleague, said Galloway's testimony is now on the record, available for the U.N.-approved Volcker panel looking into any of this, too, and any country that might want to prosecute if the allegations are proven true. Galloway insists he didn't get any money, but, Lou, he does say that is the $64 million question -- Lou.
DOBBS: At least. Thank you very much, Richard Roth, from the United Nations. Tonight from Washington, actually.
Senator Norm Coleman will join us here later in the broadcast. The latest attempt to end the nuclear showdown with North Korea by negotiation appears to be failing. South Korean and North Korean officials meeting at a border village between the two countries. It is no surprise South Korea has failed in this effort to convince North Korea to return to those six-country negotiations about its nuclear program.
The United States has been calling upon China to use its influence to move North Korea back to that negotiating table, but China has been resisting. Some say it is now time for the Bush administration to realize that China is pursuing a very different agenda from that of the United States.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korea is dependent on China for most of its food and fuel. One way to get North Korea back to the negotiating table is for China to threaten to cut off supplies, a type of sanctions. But last week the Chinese foreign ministry refused to endorse sanctions. Instead, blaming the Bush administration for "lack of cooperation" for the talks being stalled for nearly a year.
All along, the Bush administration has been hopeful China would take the lead, but three rounds of talks hosted by Beijing have gone nowhere. Some say it's high time to realize that China doesn't share the same goals as the United States on this issue.
JOHN TKACIK, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: For two years the Bush administration has said China supports a denuclearized Korean Peninsula, whereas, in fact, China has never made a denuclearized Korean Peninsula a priority.
PILGRIM: China's goal as the dominant power in the region is a stable North Korea, but China may be less concerned about a nuclear weapon.
What China fears is a collapse or regime change in North Korea that could send floods of North Korean refugees over the Chinese border. Keeping Kim Jong-il dependent on China gives China influence over the regime and makes China the powerbroker in the region. The United States is pressing China to help and has the leverage to do it.
GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN": There's a lot that we have that the Chinese need. And what we really need to do is tell the Chinese, look, you know, if you want this free ride on trade to continue -- because they are getting a free ride -- then you're going to have to step up to the plate.
PILGRIM: Chinese cooperation will be particularly important if the North Korean nuclear issue ends up in the U.N. Security Council.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: South Korea is beginning to show signs it shares China's softer approach to North Korea. And South Korea doesn't support sanctions either. But the issue is building, and many worry that North Korea is on the verge of testing a nuclear weapon in the near future -- Lou.
DOBBS: In other words, you are suggesting U.S. policy is now really isolated?
PILGRIM: Many exspers that we talked to have said that we're at an impasse on the talks, and it looks like South Korea is supporting China's position in that they refuse to endorse sanctions.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you. Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead, how a high-profile Cuban exile in custody tonight was the subject that sparked an anti-American demonstration, a large one, on the streets of Cuba.
And new pressure on "Newsweek" magazine tonight to further correct a story some say led to rioting and deaths in Muslim countries.
Those stories, a great deal more, still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In Miami tonight, federal officials have detained a high- profile Cuban exile who was seeking political asylum in the United States. Luis Posada Carriles is a former CIA operative. He claims he crossed over the U.S. border with Mexico two months ago. Cuba and Venezuela claim he is a terrorist.
Cuban President Fidel Castro and hundreds of thousands of Cubans today marched in Havana demanding Posada's arrest. And that is precisely what they got.
Lucia Newman reports from Havana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not since the days of Elian Gonzalez, the Cuban rafter boy, had fidel Castro organized such an enormous march in anger past a U.S. diplomatic mission here in Havana. This time it wasn't about a little boy, but about a 77-year- old man, Luis Posada Carriles, the Cuban exile who spent his life advocating Castro's violent overthrow and who is now in the United States.
"Posada Carriles is one of the most blood thirsty exponents of imperialist terrorism against our country," said Castro.
These posters depict a Cubana Airline plane blown up in 1976 with 73 people on board. Posada Carriles, still a fugitive from justice in Venezuela, where he's accused of having masterminded the bombing. Posada denies responsibility, although recently declassified FBI and CIA documents link him to the meeting where the plane bombing was planned.
PETER KORNBLUH, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVE: There is another CIA document where a confidential source says to the CIA that Posada was overheard in September, 1976, saying, "We are going to bring down a Cuban airliner."
NEWMAN: In a "New York Times" interview, Posada did claim responsibility for planning a string of 1997 tourist hotel bombings in Havana that killed an Italian businessman.
(on camera): Fidel Castro says Cuba is renouncing its claims to Posada Carriles so he can face trial in Venezuela, whose government has just asked Washington for his extradition.
Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says it is holding Posada pending review of his immigration status. ICE also said, "As a matter of immigration law and policy, ICE does not generally remove people to Cuba, nor does ICE generally remove people to countries believed to be acting on Cuba's behalf."
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe that Mexico should apologize for allowing Posada to illegally cross its border with the United States into this country, yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results, of course, later in the broadcast.
Turning now to Iraq, Iran's foreign minister today was in Baghdad just days after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice also was there. It was the first visit to Baghdad by a foreign minister from any of Iraq's neighboring Arab states.
The Iranian and Iraqi foreign ministers declared a new era of friendship between their countries. Some Iraqis say Iran has been trying to destabilize Iraq. But the real issue on border security is Syria. The United States has accused Syria of allowing terrorists and insurgents to operate from its territory.
The White House today called on "Newsweek" magazine to help repair the damage from its reports suggesting U.S. interrogators desecrated the Quran. "Newsweek" retracted that report yesterday. The Pentagon, meanwhile, is continuing to review documents from the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. investigators never confirmed interrogators at Guantanamo flushed a Quran down the toilet as "Newsweek" said in its now retracted report. But unsubstantiated allegations of Quran desecration have been made repeatedly over the years both by detainees who have been released and by lawyers whose clients are still in custody.
KRISTINE HUSKEY, GUANTANAMO DETAINEE ATTORNEY: What my clients told me what they had witnessed was that the Quran was mishandled and mistreated. And I am not shocked nor surprised.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon has never deemed any previous allegations that Qurans were thrown in the toilet worthy of investigation, dismissing the claims as lies by sworn enemies of the U.S.
LARRY DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: And, in fact, in their own training manuals they say, here's what we'll do if we ever get into a court: we allege torture, we allege abuse, we allege all kinds of things to influence public opinion. And that's happening.
MCINTYRE: But now, after the "Newsweek" report apparently sparked last week's deadly protests in Afghanistan, a document review is under way. Some 31,000 pages of records from Guantanamo Bay have been searched, and no indication of any intentional desecration of the Quran has been found according to the Pentagon.
The Pentagon does say an inadvertent mishandling of a Quran by a military police officer in late 2002 prompted a January 2003 memo outlining procedures for "respecting cultural dignity of the Qurans" and urging troops to "avoid handling or touching" them whenever possible.
"If handling can't be avoided, then clean gloves will be put on and two hands will be used in manners signaling respect. Handle as if a fragile piece of delicate art," the 2003 guidelines say, "and make sure a Quran is not placed in an offensive area, such as near a toilet."
Last week, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs quoted U.S. commanders in Afghanistan as saying, "The violence was not at all tied to the 'Newsweek' article."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld this week had a completely different take, saying that people had died because of the "Newsweek" article, even as Pentagon officials conceded that there was evidence the protests would have happened anyway. By way of clarification, the Pentagon simply said that General Myers' statement was based on a contemporaneous assessment of U.S. commanders at the time, and General Myers has issued no clarification about whether he's changed his mind about the linkage between the article and the violence -- Lou.
DOBBS: Put that in English for us, if you will, Jamie, from the Pentagon. A contemporaneous -- try that again.
MCINTYRE: All right. I thought that was English, but we'll try again. I think what they are trying to say is that General Myers was relying on the initial reports of the commanders who were drawing conclusions based on the information they had at the beginning of the cycle of violence, and that as time has gone on and they have more information, those commanders might have a different view.
However, they say that General Myers at this point hasn't come forward to announce whether there's been a new assessment from those commanders. So his previous statement is standing for the moment.
DOBBS: As is Donald Rumsfeld effectively blaming "Newsweek" for deaths in Afghanistan in which security forces fired on demonstrators. This is remarkable.
I don't recall, and perhaps you can help me here, Jamie, a situation which a high government official, certainly a cabinet secretary, has blamed -- put in stark terms, blaming simply "Newsweek" magazine when his own subordinates are blaming others. That is, propagandists, activists, and the Muslim imams and clergy for stoking the fires that led to that riot.
MCINTYRE: Well, I don't think there's any question that the ultimate responsibility for the deaths belongs with the people who are involved in the killing. And the part that this article played in fanning anti-American sentiment, which is already, you know, pretty high in a lot of these areas, anyway, is really hard to tell. But clearly, the U.S. believes this was not helpful.
DOBBS: Not helpful, and as is the burning by radical Islamist demonstrators in the streets of Iran or Pakistan or Afghanistan of the American flag. How do we square that up, Jamie?
MCINTYRE: Well, I don't think you can. The Pentagon concedes it's got a lot of work to do in trying to win the hearts and minds. And, you know, you can see part of it in that story we just did.
The great lengths that the U.S. goes to pay respect to the Quran -- and it's hard to imagine an American prisoner in some other country getting the same respect for his religious, you know, holy book as the U.S. military goes to the lengths to make sure that they don't disrespect the Quran.
DOBBS: Important perspective and helpful context. We appreciate it, Jamie, as always. Excellent report. Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Coming up next here, a looming crisis in the already record trade deficit and what it could mean for U.S. capital markets. Why it may be costing all of us more to buy homes and to use our credit cards. Our special report is next.
And then, Mexico's President Vicente Fox makes an offer to African-American leaders after his offensive comments about black Americans. One of those leaders is the Reverend Al Sharpton. He's our guest tonight.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Treasury Department today in a report about a month late finally called on China to relax its 10-year-long policy of pegging its currency, the yuan, to the dollar. That policy gives Chinese firms an unfair advantage, of course, over U.S. competitors and, in fact, other exporters as well.
In a report to Congress, the Treasury Department said -- and we quote -- "Current Chinese policies are highly distortionary, impose a risk to China's economy and its trading partners and global economic growth." That report, however, did not go so far as to actually say China is manipulating currency which would require immediate negotiations between the United States and China. Instead, Treasury Secretary John Snow said the Bush administration is calling for an intermediate step that would allow for a smooth transition to a full flow to the Chinese currency, something the Chinese government has resisted for a year and a half.
The National Association of Manufacturers said this Treasury Department report is disappointing. The NAM says it's disappointed that they did not actually cite China for currency manipulation.
Another manufacturing group said all of America's companies and their champions in Congress should be outraged by the Bush administration's adamant refusal to defend U.S. economic interests. Senator Chuck Schumer says the report by the Bush administration may be the toughest yet on China's currency, but, Schumer says, it's not quite tough enough. Senator Schumer and Senator Lindsey Graham declared they will introduce new legislation that will narrow the definition of manipulating their currency.
Separately tonight, Secretary of Treasury John Snow is urging caution about a new report that some are calling a wake-up call about our exploding record trade deficit. The U.S. government has been borrowing record amounts of money to fund that ever-growing deficit and debt. But now an increasing number of foreign investors are saying the United States has become too risky to invest.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Foreign investors have been playing the role of bank to the United States, funding its record $618 billion trade deficit. Foreigners sell their goods to us, we sell IOUs to them in the form of treasury securities.
LAEL BRAINARD, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: What economists worry about and what currency market folks worry about is that, because we've been borrowing so much and we've accumulated so many IOUs, that at some point foreign investors are going to decide we're not a good risk.
SYLVESTER: That day may have arrived. Foreign lending to the United States has dropped sharply. Net foreign purchases of U.S. securities fell 46 percent in March to $45.7 billion. Not even enough to cover the monthly trade deficit.
If this trend continues, it will likely drive up interest rates, crushing the housing market, raising credit card rates, and slowing the economy, hitting average consumers where it hurts the most. U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow remains confident that foreign investors will continue to flock to the United States.
JOHN SNOW, TREASURY SECRETARY: On a risk-adjusted basis, the United States returns the best -- provides the best returns in the world.
SYLVESTER: The best returns for now. But analysts say the drop- off should be a wake-up call for lawmakers to address the growing trade and budget deficits.
PETE SEPP, NATIONAL TAXPAYERS UNION: Whenever foreign ownership of the federal debt increases, so does the likelihood that financial decisions affecting Americans will be made not in Washington but in places like Riyadh or London or Tokyo or Beijing. That kind of loss of fiscal sovereignty ought to concern many Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: So who is now buying U.S. securities that foreign central banks are selling? Offshore hedge funds, investors who are not in it for the long haul. That creates more instability in the government securities market -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester from Washington. Thank you, Lisa.
Tonight's quote of the day comes from President Dwight D. Eisenhower. In his presidential papers Eisenhower wrote in 1954 in a brother -- in a letter to his brother, "Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are HL Hunt" -- in parenthesis, to his brother, he wrote, "You possibly know his background" -- "a few other Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
Those numbers are no longer negligible, of course.
Coming up next, why Mexican President Vicente Fox refuses to apologize for his remarks that sparked outrage across this country. I'll be talking with Reverend Al Sharpton next.
Also ahead, an explosive exchange on Capitol Hill today over the U.N. oil-for-food scandal. Senator Norm Coleman leading the Senate investigation of the U.N. scandal. He's our guest.
And America's bright future. Four of the brightest young minds and scientists in this country join us to talk about their remarkable accomplishments.
We'll have those stories, your thoughts and a great deal more still ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Mexican President Vincente Fox will not apologize for his comment about African-Americans but he does say he regrets any misinterpretation of his remarks. President Fox said Mexicans in the United States are doing jobs, quote, "not even blacks want to do," end quote. Now, President Fox is reaching out to some of the most prominent leaders of the African-American community. Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mexican President Vincente Fox spoke with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson by telephone late Monday and expressed regret for his statement that Mexicans in the United States are taking jobs that not even blacks want to do. Those words drew sharp criticism from human rights activists here and in Mexico.
CARLOS MARIO GOMEZ, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL (via translator): The president's remark does not contribute to reducing or diminishing racism in the country.
WIAN: Still, Fox has refused to publicly apologize.
RUBEN AGUILAR, FOX PRESS SECRETARY (via translator): The president expresses his enormous respect for minorities, whatever their race, ethnicity or religion.
WIAN: Part of the problem may be cultural. Blacks made up 10 percent of Mexico's population in 1810. Now, after generations of intermarriage, they are less than 1 percent. Blacks are often targets of overt jokes in Mexico. A main character of one popular afternoon television appears in black face. Nicknames based on skin color are common in Mexico. So is the persistent belief, re-enforced by the look of actors on television, that whiter is better. Calling someone Indian is a grave insult.
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: Racist language is just more acceptable in Mexican society. I mean, the Mexicans treat their Indians like it was 1499.
WIAN: Krikorian says the bigger issue is the point Fox was trying to make during his speech to a group of Texas businessman, which is that Mexican illegal aliens deserve to be in the United States and that Mexico should have a hand in shaping U.S. immigration law.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Fox has invited African-American leaders to meet with him in Mexico so they can work together on issues of importance to both communities. Lou?
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian. And, one of those leaders is the Reverend Al Sharpton. He says President Fox needs to issue a formal apology for his comments, and Reverend Sharpton joins us here in New York. Good to have you with us.
REV. AL SHARPTON, PRES. NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: Thank you.
DOBBS: This comment that he made, why do you suppose he doesn't want to apologize for it?
SHARPTON: I could not imagine and I said this to him when we talked. I thought it was a good thing to do, to reach out and speak to me and others, but I cannot understand why one could not feel the pain and insult one has, to say that Mexicans are doing jobs that even the blacks won't do, which is to really confirm and cement the stereotype that blacks are the low peons of the American work force.
In order for us to lift each other, we don't have to step on each other, and the one thing that I would raise that's different than the report -- though, there is some cultural difference in Mexico, I remind you that President Fox went to college in the United States, and was an executive at Coca-Cola. So, he is clearly aware of the American racial dynamics when he makes that statement about jobs in America and blacks' positions in there. Which is why I think anything short of an apology is unacceptable.
I intend to meet with him. Others are meeting with him. I intend to meet with him this week and I am saying to him first and foremost, you must set a standard against racism by saying what you said was wrong. You apologize for that because otherwise you are giving into the most racist elements in America that have always wanted to reduce blacks and have this push off on blacks to try and make advancements for themselves.
DOBBS: Reverend Sharpton, I -- one can characterize his remarks in a number of ways. I personally don't think he's a racist. I think it was stereotypical. I think it was a stupid thing for him to say, and I think he owes everyone an apology.
At the same time, this is a government, a leader, and a society that has no shame in exporting its least educated people into the United States illegally and taking jobs from men and women in this country who are legal, who deserve those same jobs, but I would argue at a much higher pay for a living wage. Are you going to discuss the issue of illegal immigration with him as well?
SHARPTON: I think so. Two things, I think, one, you are right. The question is not whether he's a racist. I don't say he is. I don't know him to be. The question, is the statement, as a head of state, is racist, and we can't leave that out there. This is not some guy on the corner just talking. It's a head of state.
Secondly, I think the fact we are now wrestling with immigration laws -- I spoke today with the chairman of the congressional Black Caucus. I talked to Congressman Charlie Rangel and others, about the pending legislation, the McCain-Kennedy legislation, for example. We have, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, about 485,000 jobs available a year for immigrants to come and perform, yet we only allow 5,000 visas to come in. How do we deal with that? How do we open up to make immigration more available and legal, but how do we stop the flow of those that are coming in and that are being used against workers -- at the cost of American workers, black and white -- by those that would exploit them at slave wages? That's the kind of discussion we need to have with President Fox, and for that matter, President Bush.
DOBBS: Can I say amen, reverend?
SHARPTON: I wish you would.
DOBBS: Amen, and we should point out black, white and Hispanic.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
DOBBS: All races in this country.
SHARPTON: And those that are legally here and those that are not legally here. We need to really deal with this issue.
DOBBS: The other thing, implicit in all of this, and I've got to just say this as a comment, just like to see what you think. One of the things that bothers me and what I find offensive in his remarks, and the way in which many in this country, our leaders, are talking is that all work isn't to be honored. That -- you know, I came up from a generation which any work no matter how low-paying, how difficult, we honored that person for working.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
DOBBS: And to dishonor work is offensive as well.
SHARPTON: Well, I think we cannot dishonor workers. I think that we should definitely not let anyone desecrate laborers at any level, which is why that statement was more insulting to me.
DOBBS: Reverend Al Sharpton, thanks for being here.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
DOBBS: And good luck in your meeting with President Vincente Fox.
SHARPTON: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Coming up next, an explosive showdown on Capitol Hill as a member of Britain's -- a controversial member of Britain's parliament -- forcefully denying he took any bribes from Saddam Hussein or profited in any way from the U.N. Oil-for-Food scandal. The chairman of the Senate Investigation Subcommittee, Senator Norm Coleman, is our guest next.
Then, a new border security plan that would completely revamp our nation's Social Security cards. I'll be talking with one of the sponsors of a legislation who also has firsthand knowledge of what it takes to provide border security. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More now on one of our top stories tonight. A member of the British Parliament, the controversial George Galloway, angrily denied the charges of a Senate subcommittee that he illegally profited from the U.N. oil-for-food program. My next guest says George Galloway simply was not a credible witness. Senator Norm Coleman leads the Senate Investigation Subcommittee, joining us now. Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: Great to be here, Lou. Thanks.
DOBBS: George Galloway, he was fiery. He contested your accusations and those of your committee. What do you make of it?
COLEMAN: Colorful, but not credible. There was never a challenge to the documents. The documents we had clearly identified him as being the person who got the allocations from Saddam Hussein for about 20 million barrels of oil. Those documents were affirmed by Iraqi vice presidents and Tariq Aziz himself, that they -- in fact, he was the allocation beneficiary.
And then most importantly is that the guy who lifted the oil, a guy who -- Fawaz Zureicat, who ultimately I think put $600,000 in his charity, Galloway sitting in front of us saying that he didn't know that he was in the oil business with Iraq. This is a guy that was his representative in Iraq, gave him 600 grand, but he didn't know that he was in the oil business. Certainly not credible, Lou.
DOBBS: And we should point out, he was not only a friend and associate, but actually chairman of Galloway's charity.
COLEMAN: And ultimately best man at his wedding.
DOBBS: The idea that you did not produce documents -- the committee did not, even though Galloway called for them, will those be produced and will you at this point take it as a mission to be very specific and definite on the charges that have been leveled against Galloway?
COLEMAN: I think we have been specific. Here's what we have -- we have two types of evidence -- and I got to say this, by the way, circumstantial evidence is just as powerful as direct evidence in a court of law. And though we're not in a court of law, what we had was we had documents from the Russians, 90 billion barrels of oil to the head of the Russian presidential office, 75 million barrels to Zhirinovsky, the head of one of the parties. And that, we had an American company doing all those deals. So we had all the dollars. We could tell you where the money went.
But the Iraqis made it very clear, if you are an allocation holder, you made money on this deal by sending it to someone else who lifted the oil. Galloway was an allocation holder. There is no question about that. His best friend, his chairman, was the guy who lifted the oil, who just by the way happened to put 600 grand into his bank account. I think that's pretty compelling.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, some Democrats are questioning whether the U.S. government did enough to prevent the involvement of U.S. companies in this scandal. What is your judgment right now?
COLEMAN: I have some concerns about whether we were as focused as we should have been on companies like BayOil. BayOil is an American company. They have been indicted with some charges, minimal charges. I expect there will be a lot more charges after the transcripts of our hearing are made available to the U.S. attorney. So I have some concerns about that. I share the concerns of Senator Levin as to whether we were as vigorous as we should have been. Because I think you should have known the stuff was going on, Lou.
DOBBS: Senator Norm Coleman, thanks for being here.
COLEMAN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, in point of fact, at the top of the hour right here on CNN, will be "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Anderson joins us now to give us a preview -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much. We're going to talk more about that program with Senator Levin. Also, a young man spends years behind bars for the brutal murder of his mother, a crime he confessed to, but one it turns out he did not commit. Tonight, we're looking at false confessions. How can people be made to confess to crimes they didn't do? Plus, your taxpayer money paying for seniors to take Viagra? Should it? Meet one congressman who wants to stop a $2 billion program. That, a lot more, at the top of the hour, Lou.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Anderson. Thank you.
My next guest will tell us why he says updating Social Security cards could help stem the flood of illegal aliens into this country. He's sponsoring important new legislation. And "America's Bright Future," talk about important. We'll introduce you to four finalists from the Intel Science Fair, who are sharing their ideas, their dreams and their innovations. Next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: When it comes to border security, my guest is an expert. He has real experience. A Border Patrol agent for more than 26 years, he is now the co-sponsor of the Bonner plan, with Congressman David Dreier. The plan is named after T.J. Bonner, the president of the National Border Patrol Council. Congressman Silvestre Reyes says it's time our actions matched our words and our rhetoric. Joining us tonight from Capitol Hill, Congressman, good to have you with us.
REP. SILVESTRE REYES (D), TEXAS: Thanks, Lou. It's good to be with you.
DOBBS: The HR-98, so named because you and Congressman Dreier think this will solve 98 percent of the illegal crossings across our border. Tell us why you think this will be so powerful and have that kind of effect.
REYES: Well, Lou, the main reason people come -- are coming to this country is in search of employment. I believe, as does Chairman Dreier, that if we have a counterfeit-proof Social Security card, along with a system where an employer can check it and verify that, number one, it's the person that's presenting it to him, and number two, that it's a valid card -- and the most important part that if they have any questions, they can check it, that will go a long ways towards eliminating the magnet that attracts people in coming to our country.
DOBBS: As you said, Congressman, having the ability to check those Social Security cards, which as we all know has become a nationwide industry, that is producing fraudulent Social Security cards. Importantly, putting the onus on, the burden, the responsibility on the employer to do so, making it easy for any employer, whether an individual or corporation, to check that ID. The penalties, though, the penalties that you are proposing are strong enough to get even the attention of those who are hiring illegal aliens.
REYES: Well, and you have to do that. You know, we keep passing laws, but as long as we don't provide the resources, the law is only as good as your ability to enforce it.
DOBBS: The cards themselves, the idea that the ACLU, amongst other organizations, already attacking the idea that you have put forward, because they are afraid of a national ID card. How do you respond to them?
REYES: Well, first and foremost, every individual today -- you know, I have two grandchildren, as you know, they have a Social Security number. So, the card, first of all, the technology exists to make it fraud-proof. Secondly, it is not a national identification card, and we've actually solicited ideas from those that would criticize the proposal. But one of the recommendations was to actually put on the card itself "this is not a national identification card."
We have to do the kinds of things that we're proposing in order to make sure that the technology -- that we take advantage of the technology that exists, so people know that we're serious.
DOBBS: Congressman Sylvester Reyes, we thank you for being here and we wish you all the best.
REYES: Thank, Lou. Good to be with you.
DOBBS: Still ahead: America's bright future. We introduce you to four extraordinary American students who will be telling us about their innovations and their futures and their dreams for what this country can provide over the next generation. I think you will like the results.
The results of tonight's poll and a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, a look at four extraordinary high school students who are surely part Of America's bright future. They've just competed in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair. It is the world's largest science competition for pre-college students. Fourteen hundred students from 40 countries compete for more than $3 million in awards and scholarships.
Joining me now is Marc Ingram, Courtney Anne Rafes and brothers Dylan and Taylor Ducote.
Good to have you with us, guys. And congratulations to all of you.
Let's start with you, Dylan. Tell us a little bit about -- is this correct -- a "Bat Hat?"
DYLAN DUCOTE, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: Yes, sir.
We call it the "Bat Hat" because it uses sonar like bats use. What it does it will send out a high-frequency sonar wave. And then this wave will bounce off an object in front of it and then whenever the object -- whenever it senses the object it will be able to tell the distance by the echo and how long it takes to get to it. Then it will run the signal through the circuit inside the hat, and then it will output tones to ear phones to the wearer.
DOBBS: The fact of the matter is that for blind people this is just an extraordinary idea. How did the idea come to you?
TAYLOR DUCOTE, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: Well, last year at our state science fair there was this thing called a "DARPA Grand Challenge." And DARPA is a defense agency for the government.
They had a challenge to see what organization can build a robot to meet the challenge, maneuver it through a desert and things like that. We were talking as a group. We thought, well, robots are essentially blind so how can they see? So then...
DOBBS: That was the first question that would have occurred to me, Taylor.
(LAUGHTER)
This is remarkable. How is it as brothers, 15 and 17, freshman and junior working together?
T. DUCOTE: It's all right. But, you know, we're brothers so you can expect what you will.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: We all expect nothing but the best. That's what you delivered here.
Congratulations to you both.
Courtney, tell us about your project.
COURTNEY ANNE RAFES, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: I made an ultrasonic train-wreck avoidance system. Ultrasonic sound is above human hearing so you can't actually hear it. It can actually detect if there's a break in the track or two trains are going to collide.
DOBBS: How do you do that?
RAFES: I have ultrasonic senders and receivers. You make them alternating down the track. If the receiver is not getting what the sender is sending -- it's all ultrasonic sound; this is actually a digital oscilloscope -- it will have wavelengths on it, and if it flatlines it means the track is broken. And if the line doubles, it means another train is coming.
DOBBS: That information would be transmitted to the engineer in the locomotive?
RAFES: Right. This digital oscilloscope will actually be with the train engineer. He will actually be able to look at it and tell. The alarm will sound if there's a broken track or something.
DOBBS: Your idea came from what?
RAFES: A bunch of stuff. My neighbor used to go to train scenes and assess the damage costs. And he'd always say, "Courtney, something needs to be done. This is really expensive." Train wrecks are really costly because they are so heavy and they make a lot of damage. So I just kind of combined a few thoughts.
DOBBS: So he turned to you to come up with this solution. Your reputation preceded you. That's wonderful. You delivered, that's great.
Marc, tell us about your project.
MARC INGRAM, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: Yes, I invented a device that allows a person to use their ordinary cell phone, pay phone or their regular house phone to start their car in the morning. They can also unlock their car, turn on their heater or air conditioner from anywhere in the world as long as they have a cell phone connection.
DOBBS: It goes into the house number or is this a separate number that has a computer attached to it? How does it work?
INGRAM: Yes, sir. There's a cell phone actually built inside of there that would actually go inside your car.
DOBBS: You can show us a bit how this would work.
INGRAM: Yes. What I do, as a matter of fact, I take a regular cell phone and connect to it. It would say something like "Press one to start your car," "Press two to turn on the heater."
When I press one like this, it starts the car. And I would just press two to turn it off.
DOBBS: That may have sounded to folks watching you at home like the starter was just turning over but it actually engaged and the wheels were turning. That's what was making the noise.
INGRAM: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: What other applications are there? You start it, what else?
INGRAM: Other than that you can use it in the house to turn on things inside the house, as well. But there's a GPS device built inside there. You can locate your car during a 911 emergency or if you just simply need to find it in a pretty large parking lot.
DOBBS: That's extraordinary.
Congratulations to all of you.
You are the old man in the group. You are a senior.
INGRAM: Louisville, Kentucky.
DOBBS: Where are you going to school?
INGRAM: I'm going to be going to the University of Louisville.
DOBBS: We thought we would give you a chance to put that plug in.
Courtney, have you decided about your future?
RAFES: I want to attend UT.
DOBBS: UT being the University of Texas.
And let's start with you first, Dylan. You're a junior.
D. DUCOTE: Yes, sir. I actually plan on attending Louisiana State University, LSU in Baton Rouge.
DOBBS: Taylor, you, have you mapped out your life yet as a freshman in high school?
T. DUCOTE: Yes, sir. I am planning to also attend LSU, maybe majoring in something to do in the teaching field.
DOBBS: Well terrific. You are all wonderful young people. We appreciate you taking time to share your thinking and your time with us. We wish you all nothing but the very best. You are great. Thank you.
Indeed, they are great. Now the results of our poll tonight. Ninety percent of you say Mexico should apologize for allowing Cuban exile Luis Posada Carilles to illegally cross the Mexican border into the United States. Ten percent disagree.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow.
The U.S. Army is on track to begin the next year with its smallest pool of recruits in at least a decade. The Army's top recruiter is our guest.
Also tomorrow, a fight to save the filibuster. I'll be facing off against Senator Barbara Boxer. She definitely wants to save it.
How foreign companies are winning influence in Washington spending billions of dollars.
From all of us here, good night from New York. "Anderson Cooper 360" begins right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Lou, thanks very much.
Good evening, everyone.
Fireworks on Capitol Hill: Did the U.S. senators see what was coming?
"360" starts now.
END
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Aired May 17, 2005 - 18:00 ET
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LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Coming up tonight, an explosive confrontation on Capitol Hill. A Senate committee facing off with a controversial British lawmaker accused of receiving oil rights in the United Nations oil-for-food scandal.
And Mexico's President Vicente Fox has refused to apologize over apparently racist comments about African-Americans. One of the men that he has invited to Mexico to discuss the issue, the Reverend Al Sharpton. Reverend Sharpton is our guest here tonight.
Our top story tonight, senators are on a collision course over judicial appointments and filibusters that could paralyze the entire Senate within a matter of hours, perhaps days. Republican and Democratic leaders in the Senate have ended their official negotiations to end the crisis. A confrontation on the Senate floor could begin as early as tomorrow.
Congressional Correspondent Joe Johns reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Republicans launched a media blitz for two stalled judges, Janice Rogers Brown and Pricilla Owen. They visited Capitol Hill and earlier the White House, where they met with President Bush himself.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The role of the Senate is to provide their advice and consent. It's not to provide advice and block.
JOHNS: Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid dug in further. Frist arguing that judges need a straight up-or-down vote.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: Are they really out of the mainstream, or is this really just politics? The best way to decide it is take it to the floor of the United States Senate.
JOHNS: Reid insisted Democrats have the right to block judges they oppose and accused Republicans of trying to break filibusters in a power grab. Reid, a former boxer, says Democrats are ready.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We have done everything that we could. We trained hard. The fight is about to begin.
JOHNS: The basic issue, Republicans want a simple majority vote on judges. But with a possible Supreme Court nomination looming, Democrats won't give up their right to demand 60 votes before controversial judicial nominations can go forward.
Perhaps the best prospect for averting a showdown lies with senators John McCain and Ben Nelson, a Republican and a Democrat trying to find a way out of the impasse. But those talks seem to be moving very slowly, while the rush towards a confrontation appears to be accelerating.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We'll just continue to work right up until the last minute trying to avert what could have severe repercussions, obviously, for our ability to conduct business for some period of time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Now, a meeting just ended of a group of about 12 Senate centrists, plus some of the key players in all of this, including the majority leader, the minority leader, McCain, and a variety of other people, including Ben Nelson. Ben Nelson telling us just a little while ago, "We hope we're getting closer." Still, no indication that they have been able to reach any type of an agreement -- Lou.
DOBBS: Any suggestion, Joe, that they are going to put off this test on the Senate floor, push it off perhaps until next week?
JOHNS: Well, that is the indication, that the test vote, when it comes, if it comes, will come around Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. That, of course, is the big moment. We are expecting speeches essentially for the rest of this week leading up to that -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the inference would be that the Republican leadership doesn't have the votes to win this confrontation, at least not right now.
JOHNS: The truth is, if you talk to Democrats and Republicans, liberals, moderates, conservatives, there are many, many people here who worked at the Senate for a very long time who don't have a clue how this would turn out if and when it reaches the Senate floor. A lot of people just don't know how those few moderates in the middle are going to go, Lou, and that's the big question.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And the question I know you will be looking to answer over the days, if not weeks, ahead of us. Joe Johns, thanks a lot from Capitol Hill.
Senators investigating the oil-for-food scandal today faced off with a controversial British lawmaker. He's accused of receiving lucrative oil rights from Saddam Hussein.
The British lawmaker, George Galloway, declared he has never been an oil trader, nor has oil ever been traded in his behalf. But the committee's chairman, Senator Norm Coleman, said Galloway is not a credible witness.
Our Senior United Nations Correspondent Richard Roth reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Taking the oath was about the only thing British parliament minister George Galloway accepted from the Senate committee investigating oil-for-food corruption. The fiery Galloway was accused by the committee last week of being rewarded by Saddam Hussein with the rights to 20 million barrels of oil for opposing economic sanctions. The committee chairman, Senator Norm Coleman, reminded him.
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: Senior Iraqi officials have confirmed that you, in fact, received oil allocations and that the documents that identify you as an allocation recipient are valid.
ROTH: Right from the start, Galloway went on the attack.
GEORGE GALLOWAY, BRITISH LAWMAKER: I have never seen a barrel of oil, owned one, bought one, sold one, and neither has anybody on my behalf. For a lawyer, you're remarkably cavalier with any idea of justice.
ROTH: Usually witnesses before congressional committee show deference, not the anti-war activist who vowed to appear with both barrels blazing.
GALLOWAY: Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong. And 100,000 people have paid with their lives, 1,600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies.
ROTH: The bipartisan committee report said Galloway funneled oil allocations through two companies and a charity named after a 4-year- old girl suffering from leukemia.
GALLOWAY: What counts is not the names on the paper. What counts is where's the money, Senator? Who paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars of money?
The answer to that is nobody. And if you had anybody whoever paid me a penny, you would have produced them here today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Senator Coleman and Senator Levin, his Democratic colleague, said Galloway's testimony is now on the record, available for the U.N.-approved Volcker panel looking into any of this, too, and any country that might want to prosecute if the allegations are proven true. Galloway insists he didn't get any money, but, Lou, he does say that is the $64 million question -- Lou.
DOBBS: At least. Thank you very much, Richard Roth, from the United Nations. Tonight from Washington, actually.
Senator Norm Coleman will join us here later in the broadcast. The latest attempt to end the nuclear showdown with North Korea by negotiation appears to be failing. South Korean and North Korean officials meeting at a border village between the two countries. It is no surprise South Korea has failed in this effort to convince North Korea to return to those six-country negotiations about its nuclear program.
The United States has been calling upon China to use its influence to move North Korea back to that negotiating table, but China has been resisting. Some say it is now time for the Bush administration to realize that China is pursuing a very different agenda from that of the United States.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): North Korea is dependent on China for most of its food and fuel. One way to get North Korea back to the negotiating table is for China to threaten to cut off supplies, a type of sanctions. But last week the Chinese foreign ministry refused to endorse sanctions. Instead, blaming the Bush administration for "lack of cooperation" for the talks being stalled for nearly a year.
All along, the Bush administration has been hopeful China would take the lead, but three rounds of talks hosted by Beijing have gone nowhere. Some say it's high time to realize that China doesn't share the same goals as the United States on this issue.
JOHN TKACIK, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: For two years the Bush administration has said China supports a denuclearized Korean Peninsula, whereas, in fact, China has never made a denuclearized Korean Peninsula a priority.
PILGRIM: China's goal as the dominant power in the region is a stable North Korea, but China may be less concerned about a nuclear weapon.
What China fears is a collapse or regime change in North Korea that could send floods of North Korean refugees over the Chinese border. Keeping Kim Jong-il dependent on China gives China influence over the regime and makes China the powerbroker in the region. The United States is pressing China to help and has the leverage to do it.
GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN": There's a lot that we have that the Chinese need. And what we really need to do is tell the Chinese, look, you know, if you want this free ride on trade to continue -- because they are getting a free ride -- then you're going to have to step up to the plate.
PILGRIM: Chinese cooperation will be particularly important if the North Korean nuclear issue ends up in the U.N. Security Council.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: South Korea is beginning to show signs it shares China's softer approach to North Korea. And South Korea doesn't support sanctions either. But the issue is building, and many worry that North Korea is on the verge of testing a nuclear weapon in the near future -- Lou.
DOBBS: In other words, you are suggesting U.S. policy is now really isolated?
PILGRIM: Many exspers that we talked to have said that we're at an impasse on the talks, and it looks like South Korea is supporting China's position in that they refuse to endorse sanctions.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you. Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead, how a high-profile Cuban exile in custody tonight was the subject that sparked an anti-American demonstration, a large one, on the streets of Cuba.
And new pressure on "Newsweek" magazine tonight to further correct a story some say led to rioting and deaths in Muslim countries.
Those stories, a great deal more, still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In Miami tonight, federal officials have detained a high- profile Cuban exile who was seeking political asylum in the United States. Luis Posada Carriles is a former CIA operative. He claims he crossed over the U.S. border with Mexico two months ago. Cuba and Venezuela claim he is a terrorist.
Cuban President Fidel Castro and hundreds of thousands of Cubans today marched in Havana demanding Posada's arrest. And that is precisely what they got.
Lucia Newman reports from Havana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not since the days of Elian Gonzalez, the Cuban rafter boy, had fidel Castro organized such an enormous march in anger past a U.S. diplomatic mission here in Havana. This time it wasn't about a little boy, but about a 77-year- old man, Luis Posada Carriles, the Cuban exile who spent his life advocating Castro's violent overthrow and who is now in the United States.
"Posada Carriles is one of the most blood thirsty exponents of imperialist terrorism against our country," said Castro.
These posters depict a Cubana Airline plane blown up in 1976 with 73 people on board. Posada Carriles, still a fugitive from justice in Venezuela, where he's accused of having masterminded the bombing. Posada denies responsibility, although recently declassified FBI and CIA documents link him to the meeting where the plane bombing was planned.
PETER KORNBLUH, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVE: There is another CIA document where a confidential source says to the CIA that Posada was overheard in September, 1976, saying, "We are going to bring down a Cuban airliner."
NEWMAN: In a "New York Times" interview, Posada did claim responsibility for planning a string of 1997 tourist hotel bombings in Havana that killed an Italian businessman.
(on camera): Fidel Castro says Cuba is renouncing its claims to Posada Carriles so he can face trial in Venezuela, whose government has just asked Washington for his extradition.
Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says it is holding Posada pending review of his immigration status. ICE also said, "As a matter of immigration law and policy, ICE does not generally remove people to Cuba, nor does ICE generally remove people to countries believed to be acting on Cuba's behalf."
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe that Mexico should apologize for allowing Posada to illegally cross its border with the United States into this country, yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results, of course, later in the broadcast.
Turning now to Iraq, Iran's foreign minister today was in Baghdad just days after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice also was there. It was the first visit to Baghdad by a foreign minister from any of Iraq's neighboring Arab states.
The Iranian and Iraqi foreign ministers declared a new era of friendship between their countries. Some Iraqis say Iran has been trying to destabilize Iraq. But the real issue on border security is Syria. The United States has accused Syria of allowing terrorists and insurgents to operate from its territory.
The White House today called on "Newsweek" magazine to help repair the damage from its reports suggesting U.S. interrogators desecrated the Quran. "Newsweek" retracted that report yesterday. The Pentagon, meanwhile, is continuing to review documents from the Guantanamo Bay detention center.
Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. investigators never confirmed interrogators at Guantanamo flushed a Quran down the toilet as "Newsweek" said in its now retracted report. But unsubstantiated allegations of Quran desecration have been made repeatedly over the years both by detainees who have been released and by lawyers whose clients are still in custody.
KRISTINE HUSKEY, GUANTANAMO DETAINEE ATTORNEY: What my clients told me what they had witnessed was that the Quran was mishandled and mistreated. And I am not shocked nor surprised.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon has never deemed any previous allegations that Qurans were thrown in the toilet worthy of investigation, dismissing the claims as lies by sworn enemies of the U.S.
LARRY DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: And, in fact, in their own training manuals they say, here's what we'll do if we ever get into a court: we allege torture, we allege abuse, we allege all kinds of things to influence public opinion. And that's happening.
MCINTYRE: But now, after the "Newsweek" report apparently sparked last week's deadly protests in Afghanistan, a document review is under way. Some 31,000 pages of records from Guantanamo Bay have been searched, and no indication of any intentional desecration of the Quran has been found according to the Pentagon.
The Pentagon does say an inadvertent mishandling of a Quran by a military police officer in late 2002 prompted a January 2003 memo outlining procedures for "respecting cultural dignity of the Qurans" and urging troops to "avoid handling or touching" them whenever possible.
"If handling can't be avoided, then clean gloves will be put on and two hands will be used in manners signaling respect. Handle as if a fragile piece of delicate art," the 2003 guidelines say, "and make sure a Quran is not placed in an offensive area, such as near a toilet."
Last week, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs quoted U.S. commanders in Afghanistan as saying, "The violence was not at all tied to the 'Newsweek' article."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld this week had a completely different take, saying that people had died because of the "Newsweek" article, even as Pentagon officials conceded that there was evidence the protests would have happened anyway. By way of clarification, the Pentagon simply said that General Myers' statement was based on a contemporaneous assessment of U.S. commanders at the time, and General Myers has issued no clarification about whether he's changed his mind about the linkage between the article and the violence -- Lou.
DOBBS: Put that in English for us, if you will, Jamie, from the Pentagon. A contemporaneous -- try that again.
MCINTYRE: All right. I thought that was English, but we'll try again. I think what they are trying to say is that General Myers was relying on the initial reports of the commanders who were drawing conclusions based on the information they had at the beginning of the cycle of violence, and that as time has gone on and they have more information, those commanders might have a different view.
However, they say that General Myers at this point hasn't come forward to announce whether there's been a new assessment from those commanders. So his previous statement is standing for the moment.
DOBBS: As is Donald Rumsfeld effectively blaming "Newsweek" for deaths in Afghanistan in which security forces fired on demonstrators. This is remarkable.
I don't recall, and perhaps you can help me here, Jamie, a situation which a high government official, certainly a cabinet secretary, has blamed -- put in stark terms, blaming simply "Newsweek" magazine when his own subordinates are blaming others. That is, propagandists, activists, and the Muslim imams and clergy for stoking the fires that led to that riot.
MCINTYRE: Well, I don't think there's any question that the ultimate responsibility for the deaths belongs with the people who are involved in the killing. And the part that this article played in fanning anti-American sentiment, which is already, you know, pretty high in a lot of these areas, anyway, is really hard to tell. But clearly, the U.S. believes this was not helpful.
DOBBS: Not helpful, and as is the burning by radical Islamist demonstrators in the streets of Iran or Pakistan or Afghanistan of the American flag. How do we square that up, Jamie?
MCINTYRE: Well, I don't think you can. The Pentagon concedes it's got a lot of work to do in trying to win the hearts and minds. And, you know, you can see part of it in that story we just did.
The great lengths that the U.S. goes to pay respect to the Quran -- and it's hard to imagine an American prisoner in some other country getting the same respect for his religious, you know, holy book as the U.S. military goes to the lengths to make sure that they don't disrespect the Quran.
DOBBS: Important perspective and helpful context. We appreciate it, Jamie, as always. Excellent report. Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Coming up next here, a looming crisis in the already record trade deficit and what it could mean for U.S. capital markets. Why it may be costing all of us more to buy homes and to use our credit cards. Our special report is next.
And then, Mexico's President Vicente Fox makes an offer to African-American leaders after his offensive comments about black Americans. One of those leaders is the Reverend Al Sharpton. He's our guest tonight.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Treasury Department today in a report about a month late finally called on China to relax its 10-year-long policy of pegging its currency, the yuan, to the dollar. That policy gives Chinese firms an unfair advantage, of course, over U.S. competitors and, in fact, other exporters as well.
In a report to Congress, the Treasury Department said -- and we quote -- "Current Chinese policies are highly distortionary, impose a risk to China's economy and its trading partners and global economic growth." That report, however, did not go so far as to actually say China is manipulating currency which would require immediate negotiations between the United States and China. Instead, Treasury Secretary John Snow said the Bush administration is calling for an intermediate step that would allow for a smooth transition to a full flow to the Chinese currency, something the Chinese government has resisted for a year and a half.
The National Association of Manufacturers said this Treasury Department report is disappointing. The NAM says it's disappointed that they did not actually cite China for currency manipulation.
Another manufacturing group said all of America's companies and their champions in Congress should be outraged by the Bush administration's adamant refusal to defend U.S. economic interests. Senator Chuck Schumer says the report by the Bush administration may be the toughest yet on China's currency, but, Schumer says, it's not quite tough enough. Senator Schumer and Senator Lindsey Graham declared they will introduce new legislation that will narrow the definition of manipulating their currency.
Separately tonight, Secretary of Treasury John Snow is urging caution about a new report that some are calling a wake-up call about our exploding record trade deficit. The U.S. government has been borrowing record amounts of money to fund that ever-growing deficit and debt. But now an increasing number of foreign investors are saying the United States has become too risky to invest.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Foreign investors have been playing the role of bank to the United States, funding its record $618 billion trade deficit. Foreigners sell their goods to us, we sell IOUs to them in the form of treasury securities.
LAEL BRAINARD, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: What economists worry about and what currency market folks worry about is that, because we've been borrowing so much and we've accumulated so many IOUs, that at some point foreign investors are going to decide we're not a good risk.
SYLVESTER: That day may have arrived. Foreign lending to the United States has dropped sharply. Net foreign purchases of U.S. securities fell 46 percent in March to $45.7 billion. Not even enough to cover the monthly trade deficit.
If this trend continues, it will likely drive up interest rates, crushing the housing market, raising credit card rates, and slowing the economy, hitting average consumers where it hurts the most. U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow remains confident that foreign investors will continue to flock to the United States.
JOHN SNOW, TREASURY SECRETARY: On a risk-adjusted basis, the United States returns the best -- provides the best returns in the world.
SYLVESTER: The best returns for now. But analysts say the drop- off should be a wake-up call for lawmakers to address the growing trade and budget deficits.
PETE SEPP, NATIONAL TAXPAYERS UNION: Whenever foreign ownership of the federal debt increases, so does the likelihood that financial decisions affecting Americans will be made not in Washington but in places like Riyadh or London or Tokyo or Beijing. That kind of loss of fiscal sovereignty ought to concern many Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: So who is now buying U.S. securities that foreign central banks are selling? Offshore hedge funds, investors who are not in it for the long haul. That creates more instability in the government securities market -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester from Washington. Thank you, Lisa.
Tonight's quote of the day comes from President Dwight D. Eisenhower. In his presidential papers Eisenhower wrote in 1954 in a brother -- in a letter to his brother, "Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are HL Hunt" -- in parenthesis, to his brother, he wrote, "You possibly know his background" -- "a few other Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
Those numbers are no longer negligible, of course.
Coming up next, why Mexican President Vicente Fox refuses to apologize for his remarks that sparked outrage across this country. I'll be talking with Reverend Al Sharpton next.
Also ahead, an explosive exchange on Capitol Hill today over the U.N. oil-for-food scandal. Senator Norm Coleman leading the Senate investigation of the U.N. scandal. He's our guest.
And America's bright future. Four of the brightest young minds and scientists in this country join us to talk about their remarkable accomplishments.
We'll have those stories, your thoughts and a great deal more still ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Mexican President Vincente Fox will not apologize for his comment about African-Americans but he does say he regrets any misinterpretation of his remarks. President Fox said Mexicans in the United States are doing jobs, quote, "not even blacks want to do," end quote. Now, President Fox is reaching out to some of the most prominent leaders of the African-American community. Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mexican President Vincente Fox spoke with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson by telephone late Monday and expressed regret for his statement that Mexicans in the United States are taking jobs that not even blacks want to do. Those words drew sharp criticism from human rights activists here and in Mexico.
CARLOS MARIO GOMEZ, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL (via translator): The president's remark does not contribute to reducing or diminishing racism in the country.
WIAN: Still, Fox has refused to publicly apologize.
RUBEN AGUILAR, FOX PRESS SECRETARY (via translator): The president expresses his enormous respect for minorities, whatever their race, ethnicity or religion.
WIAN: Part of the problem may be cultural. Blacks made up 10 percent of Mexico's population in 1810. Now, after generations of intermarriage, they are less than 1 percent. Blacks are often targets of overt jokes in Mexico. A main character of one popular afternoon television appears in black face. Nicknames based on skin color are common in Mexico. So is the persistent belief, re-enforced by the look of actors on television, that whiter is better. Calling someone Indian is a grave insult.
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: Racist language is just more acceptable in Mexican society. I mean, the Mexicans treat their Indians like it was 1499.
WIAN: Krikorian says the bigger issue is the point Fox was trying to make during his speech to a group of Texas businessman, which is that Mexican illegal aliens deserve to be in the United States and that Mexico should have a hand in shaping U.S. immigration law.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Fox has invited African-American leaders to meet with him in Mexico so they can work together on issues of importance to both communities. Lou?
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian. And, one of those leaders is the Reverend Al Sharpton. He says President Fox needs to issue a formal apology for his comments, and Reverend Sharpton joins us here in New York. Good to have you with us.
REV. AL SHARPTON, PRES. NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: Thank you.
DOBBS: This comment that he made, why do you suppose he doesn't want to apologize for it?
SHARPTON: I could not imagine and I said this to him when we talked. I thought it was a good thing to do, to reach out and speak to me and others, but I cannot understand why one could not feel the pain and insult one has, to say that Mexicans are doing jobs that even the blacks won't do, which is to really confirm and cement the stereotype that blacks are the low peons of the American work force.
In order for us to lift each other, we don't have to step on each other, and the one thing that I would raise that's different than the report -- though, there is some cultural difference in Mexico, I remind you that President Fox went to college in the United States, and was an executive at Coca-Cola. So, he is clearly aware of the American racial dynamics when he makes that statement about jobs in America and blacks' positions in there. Which is why I think anything short of an apology is unacceptable.
I intend to meet with him. Others are meeting with him. I intend to meet with him this week and I am saying to him first and foremost, you must set a standard against racism by saying what you said was wrong. You apologize for that because otherwise you are giving into the most racist elements in America that have always wanted to reduce blacks and have this push off on blacks to try and make advancements for themselves.
DOBBS: Reverend Sharpton, I -- one can characterize his remarks in a number of ways. I personally don't think he's a racist. I think it was stereotypical. I think it was a stupid thing for him to say, and I think he owes everyone an apology.
At the same time, this is a government, a leader, and a society that has no shame in exporting its least educated people into the United States illegally and taking jobs from men and women in this country who are legal, who deserve those same jobs, but I would argue at a much higher pay for a living wage. Are you going to discuss the issue of illegal immigration with him as well?
SHARPTON: I think so. Two things, I think, one, you are right. The question is not whether he's a racist. I don't say he is. I don't know him to be. The question, is the statement, as a head of state, is racist, and we can't leave that out there. This is not some guy on the corner just talking. It's a head of state.
Secondly, I think the fact we are now wrestling with immigration laws -- I spoke today with the chairman of the congressional Black Caucus. I talked to Congressman Charlie Rangel and others, about the pending legislation, the McCain-Kennedy legislation, for example. We have, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, about 485,000 jobs available a year for immigrants to come and perform, yet we only allow 5,000 visas to come in. How do we deal with that? How do we open up to make immigration more available and legal, but how do we stop the flow of those that are coming in and that are being used against workers -- at the cost of American workers, black and white -- by those that would exploit them at slave wages? That's the kind of discussion we need to have with President Fox, and for that matter, President Bush.
DOBBS: Can I say amen, reverend?
SHARPTON: I wish you would.
DOBBS: Amen, and we should point out black, white and Hispanic.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
DOBBS: All races in this country.
SHARPTON: And those that are legally here and those that are not legally here. We need to really deal with this issue.
DOBBS: The other thing, implicit in all of this, and I've got to just say this as a comment, just like to see what you think. One of the things that bothers me and what I find offensive in his remarks, and the way in which many in this country, our leaders, are talking is that all work isn't to be honored. That -- you know, I came up from a generation which any work no matter how low-paying, how difficult, we honored that person for working.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
DOBBS: And to dishonor work is offensive as well.
SHARPTON: Well, I think we cannot dishonor workers. I think that we should definitely not let anyone desecrate laborers at any level, which is why that statement was more insulting to me.
DOBBS: Reverend Al Sharpton, thanks for being here.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
DOBBS: And good luck in your meeting with President Vincente Fox.
SHARPTON: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Coming up next, an explosive showdown on Capitol Hill as a member of Britain's -- a controversial member of Britain's parliament -- forcefully denying he took any bribes from Saddam Hussein or profited in any way from the U.N. Oil-for-Food scandal. The chairman of the Senate Investigation Subcommittee, Senator Norm Coleman, is our guest next.
Then, a new border security plan that would completely revamp our nation's Social Security cards. I'll be talking with one of the sponsors of a legislation who also has firsthand knowledge of what it takes to provide border security. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More now on one of our top stories tonight. A member of the British Parliament, the controversial George Galloway, angrily denied the charges of a Senate subcommittee that he illegally profited from the U.N. oil-for-food program. My next guest says George Galloway simply was not a credible witness. Senator Norm Coleman leads the Senate Investigation Subcommittee, joining us now. Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), MINNESOTA: Great to be here, Lou. Thanks.
DOBBS: George Galloway, he was fiery. He contested your accusations and those of your committee. What do you make of it?
COLEMAN: Colorful, but not credible. There was never a challenge to the documents. The documents we had clearly identified him as being the person who got the allocations from Saddam Hussein for about 20 million barrels of oil. Those documents were affirmed by Iraqi vice presidents and Tariq Aziz himself, that they -- in fact, he was the allocation beneficiary.
And then most importantly is that the guy who lifted the oil, a guy who -- Fawaz Zureicat, who ultimately I think put $600,000 in his charity, Galloway sitting in front of us saying that he didn't know that he was in the oil business with Iraq. This is a guy that was his representative in Iraq, gave him 600 grand, but he didn't know that he was in the oil business. Certainly not credible, Lou.
DOBBS: And we should point out, he was not only a friend and associate, but actually chairman of Galloway's charity.
COLEMAN: And ultimately best man at his wedding.
DOBBS: The idea that you did not produce documents -- the committee did not, even though Galloway called for them, will those be produced and will you at this point take it as a mission to be very specific and definite on the charges that have been leveled against Galloway?
COLEMAN: I think we have been specific. Here's what we have -- we have two types of evidence -- and I got to say this, by the way, circumstantial evidence is just as powerful as direct evidence in a court of law. And though we're not in a court of law, what we had was we had documents from the Russians, 90 billion barrels of oil to the head of the Russian presidential office, 75 million barrels to Zhirinovsky, the head of one of the parties. And that, we had an American company doing all those deals. So we had all the dollars. We could tell you where the money went.
But the Iraqis made it very clear, if you are an allocation holder, you made money on this deal by sending it to someone else who lifted the oil. Galloway was an allocation holder. There is no question about that. His best friend, his chairman, was the guy who lifted the oil, who just by the way happened to put 600 grand into his bank account. I think that's pretty compelling.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, some Democrats are questioning whether the U.S. government did enough to prevent the involvement of U.S. companies in this scandal. What is your judgment right now?
COLEMAN: I have some concerns about whether we were as focused as we should have been on companies like BayOil. BayOil is an American company. They have been indicted with some charges, minimal charges. I expect there will be a lot more charges after the transcripts of our hearing are made available to the U.S. attorney. So I have some concerns about that. I share the concerns of Senator Levin as to whether we were as vigorous as we should have been. Because I think you should have known the stuff was going on, Lou.
DOBBS: Senator Norm Coleman, thanks for being here.
COLEMAN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, in point of fact, at the top of the hour right here on CNN, will be "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Anderson joins us now to give us a preview -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much. We're going to talk more about that program with Senator Levin. Also, a young man spends years behind bars for the brutal murder of his mother, a crime he confessed to, but one it turns out he did not commit. Tonight, we're looking at false confessions. How can people be made to confess to crimes they didn't do? Plus, your taxpayer money paying for seniors to take Viagra? Should it? Meet one congressman who wants to stop a $2 billion program. That, a lot more, at the top of the hour, Lou.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Anderson. Thank you.
My next guest will tell us why he says updating Social Security cards could help stem the flood of illegal aliens into this country. He's sponsoring important new legislation. And "America's Bright Future," talk about important. We'll introduce you to four finalists from the Intel Science Fair, who are sharing their ideas, their dreams and their innovations. Next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: When it comes to border security, my guest is an expert. He has real experience. A Border Patrol agent for more than 26 years, he is now the co-sponsor of the Bonner plan, with Congressman David Dreier. The plan is named after T.J. Bonner, the president of the National Border Patrol Council. Congressman Silvestre Reyes says it's time our actions matched our words and our rhetoric. Joining us tonight from Capitol Hill, Congressman, good to have you with us.
REP. SILVESTRE REYES (D), TEXAS: Thanks, Lou. It's good to be with you.
DOBBS: The HR-98, so named because you and Congressman Dreier think this will solve 98 percent of the illegal crossings across our border. Tell us why you think this will be so powerful and have that kind of effect.
REYES: Well, Lou, the main reason people come -- are coming to this country is in search of employment. I believe, as does Chairman Dreier, that if we have a counterfeit-proof Social Security card, along with a system where an employer can check it and verify that, number one, it's the person that's presenting it to him, and number two, that it's a valid card -- and the most important part that if they have any questions, they can check it, that will go a long ways towards eliminating the magnet that attracts people in coming to our country.
DOBBS: As you said, Congressman, having the ability to check those Social Security cards, which as we all know has become a nationwide industry, that is producing fraudulent Social Security cards. Importantly, putting the onus on, the burden, the responsibility on the employer to do so, making it easy for any employer, whether an individual or corporation, to check that ID. The penalties, though, the penalties that you are proposing are strong enough to get even the attention of those who are hiring illegal aliens.
REYES: Well, and you have to do that. You know, we keep passing laws, but as long as we don't provide the resources, the law is only as good as your ability to enforce it.
DOBBS: The cards themselves, the idea that the ACLU, amongst other organizations, already attacking the idea that you have put forward, because they are afraid of a national ID card. How do you respond to them?
REYES: Well, first and foremost, every individual today -- you know, I have two grandchildren, as you know, they have a Social Security number. So, the card, first of all, the technology exists to make it fraud-proof. Secondly, it is not a national identification card, and we've actually solicited ideas from those that would criticize the proposal. But one of the recommendations was to actually put on the card itself "this is not a national identification card."
We have to do the kinds of things that we're proposing in order to make sure that the technology -- that we take advantage of the technology that exists, so people know that we're serious.
DOBBS: Congressman Sylvester Reyes, we thank you for being here and we wish you all the best.
REYES: Thank, Lou. Good to be with you.
DOBBS: Still ahead: America's bright future. We introduce you to four extraordinary American students who will be telling us about their innovations and their futures and their dreams for what this country can provide over the next generation. I think you will like the results.
The results of tonight's poll and a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, a look at four extraordinary high school students who are surely part Of America's bright future. They've just competed in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair. It is the world's largest science competition for pre-college students. Fourteen hundred students from 40 countries compete for more than $3 million in awards and scholarships.
Joining me now is Marc Ingram, Courtney Anne Rafes and brothers Dylan and Taylor Ducote.
Good to have you with us, guys. And congratulations to all of you.
Let's start with you, Dylan. Tell us a little bit about -- is this correct -- a "Bat Hat?"
DYLAN DUCOTE, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: Yes, sir.
We call it the "Bat Hat" because it uses sonar like bats use. What it does it will send out a high-frequency sonar wave. And then this wave will bounce off an object in front of it and then whenever the object -- whenever it senses the object it will be able to tell the distance by the echo and how long it takes to get to it. Then it will run the signal through the circuit inside the hat, and then it will output tones to ear phones to the wearer.
DOBBS: The fact of the matter is that for blind people this is just an extraordinary idea. How did the idea come to you?
TAYLOR DUCOTE, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: Well, last year at our state science fair there was this thing called a "DARPA Grand Challenge." And DARPA is a defense agency for the government.
They had a challenge to see what organization can build a robot to meet the challenge, maneuver it through a desert and things like that. We were talking as a group. We thought, well, robots are essentially blind so how can they see? So then...
DOBBS: That was the first question that would have occurred to me, Taylor.
(LAUGHTER)
This is remarkable. How is it as brothers, 15 and 17, freshman and junior working together?
T. DUCOTE: It's all right. But, you know, we're brothers so you can expect what you will.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: We all expect nothing but the best. That's what you delivered here.
Congratulations to you both.
Courtney, tell us about your project.
COURTNEY ANNE RAFES, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: I made an ultrasonic train-wreck avoidance system. Ultrasonic sound is above human hearing so you can't actually hear it. It can actually detect if there's a break in the track or two trains are going to collide.
DOBBS: How do you do that?
RAFES: I have ultrasonic senders and receivers. You make them alternating down the track. If the receiver is not getting what the sender is sending -- it's all ultrasonic sound; this is actually a digital oscilloscope -- it will have wavelengths on it, and if it flatlines it means the track is broken. And if the line doubles, it means another train is coming.
DOBBS: That information would be transmitted to the engineer in the locomotive?
RAFES: Right. This digital oscilloscope will actually be with the train engineer. He will actually be able to look at it and tell. The alarm will sound if there's a broken track or something.
DOBBS: Your idea came from what?
RAFES: A bunch of stuff. My neighbor used to go to train scenes and assess the damage costs. And he'd always say, "Courtney, something needs to be done. This is really expensive." Train wrecks are really costly because they are so heavy and they make a lot of damage. So I just kind of combined a few thoughts.
DOBBS: So he turned to you to come up with this solution. Your reputation preceded you. That's wonderful. You delivered, that's great.
Marc, tell us about your project.
MARC INGRAM, INTEL SCIENCE FAIR FINALIST: Yes, I invented a device that allows a person to use their ordinary cell phone, pay phone or their regular house phone to start their car in the morning. They can also unlock their car, turn on their heater or air conditioner from anywhere in the world as long as they have a cell phone connection.
DOBBS: It goes into the house number or is this a separate number that has a computer attached to it? How does it work?
INGRAM: Yes, sir. There's a cell phone actually built inside of there that would actually go inside your car.
DOBBS: You can show us a bit how this would work.
INGRAM: Yes. What I do, as a matter of fact, I take a regular cell phone and connect to it. It would say something like "Press one to start your car," "Press two to turn on the heater."
When I press one like this, it starts the car. And I would just press two to turn it off.
DOBBS: That may have sounded to folks watching you at home like the starter was just turning over but it actually engaged and the wheels were turning. That's what was making the noise.
INGRAM: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: What other applications are there? You start it, what else?
INGRAM: Other than that you can use it in the house to turn on things inside the house, as well. But there's a GPS device built inside there. You can locate your car during a 911 emergency or if you just simply need to find it in a pretty large parking lot.
DOBBS: That's extraordinary.
Congratulations to all of you.
You are the old man in the group. You are a senior.
INGRAM: Louisville, Kentucky.
DOBBS: Where are you going to school?
INGRAM: I'm going to be going to the University of Louisville.
DOBBS: We thought we would give you a chance to put that plug in.
Courtney, have you decided about your future?
RAFES: I want to attend UT.
DOBBS: UT being the University of Texas.
And let's start with you first, Dylan. You're a junior.
D. DUCOTE: Yes, sir. I actually plan on attending Louisiana State University, LSU in Baton Rouge.
DOBBS: Taylor, you, have you mapped out your life yet as a freshman in high school?
T. DUCOTE: Yes, sir. I am planning to also attend LSU, maybe majoring in something to do in the teaching field.
DOBBS: Well terrific. You are all wonderful young people. We appreciate you taking time to share your thinking and your time with us. We wish you all nothing but the very best. You are great. Thank you.
Indeed, they are great. Now the results of our poll tonight. Ninety percent of you say Mexico should apologize for allowing Cuban exile Luis Posada Carilles to illegally cross the Mexican border into the United States. Ten percent disagree.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow.
The U.S. Army is on track to begin the next year with its smallest pool of recruits in at least a decade. The Army's top recruiter is our guest.
Also tomorrow, a fight to save the filibuster. I'll be facing off against Senator Barbara Boxer. She definitely wants to save it.
How foreign companies are winning influence in Washington spending billions of dollars.
From all of us here, good night from New York. "Anderson Cooper 360" begins right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Lou, thanks very much.
Good evening, everyone.
Fireworks on Capitol Hill: Did the U.S. senators see what was coming?
"360" starts now.
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