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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Red Storm; Selling America; High & Almighty; "The Truth About Hillary Clinton"
Aired June 27, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Tonight, while Washington sleeps, the Bush administration shows no sign of blocking China's bid to buy a U.S. oil company, Unocal. Administration officials won't even talk on the record about the red storm that is hitting our shores. Tonight we'll be on record with our special report on the Chinese communist threat to American economic security and national security.
The top general in Iraq is asking why anyone expects him to be able to secure Iraq's borders when we can't secure our border with Mexico. Tonight we'll report on the failure of the White House and Congress to secure our border with Mexico, and in the opinion of some, their failure to fulfill faithfully their oaths of office.
And the new best-selling book "The Truth About Hillary." Has author Ed Klein written a work of investigative journalism or indulged in the politics of personal destruction? He's our guest and we'll find out.
Also tonight, the public confessions of a serial killer. The BTK killer tells a court in detail how he murdered his victims in cold blood.
And a second shark attack in three days on the Gulf Coast of Florida has left a teenager critically injured.
We begin tonight with China's unprecedented attempt to seize control of one of this country's most important energy assets. China is aggressively pushing forward with a bid to buy one of the country's largest oil companies, Unocal. Unocal controls major oil and gas fields in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, and, of course, Asia. Unocal also has key technologies that could be adapted for military use. A Chinese takeover of Unocal would follow China's purchase of IBM's personal computer business despite U.S. national security concerns.
Critics say China's overseas expansion is nothing less than a bold attempt to supersede the United States as the world's preeminent military and economic power. Tonight we'll be reporting on the many dimensions of this critically important story.
Kitty Pilgrim on the gaping holes in the government's review process for foreign takeover deals. Christine Romans on the scope of existing foreign ownership of our energy sector and our rising dependency. Bill Tucker on the key global energy assets that China seeks to control. And among my guests tonight, Richard D'Amato, chairman of the highly influential U.S.-China Security Review Commission on the need for the government to take action now in the national interest.
We begin with Kitty Pilgrim -- Kitty.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, many in Congress are saying this cannot be treated as a normal business deal. It would be oil for the Chinese economy, oil for the military, and sensitive technology that could be used for defense. And the normal review process is not sufficient for something this important.
PILGRIM (voice-over): Congressman Donald Manzullo and 40 other members of Congress wrote to President Bush and Treasure Secretary Snow for a full national security review of this deal.
REP. DONALD MANZULLO (R), ILLINOIS: This is the Chinese government itself that's buying the fifth largest energy company in the United States. I'd say that definitely warrants further review by the U.S. government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't let this transaction be swept under a rug. And we need to really be looking at it carefully and demand that our political leaders do so as well.
PILGRIM: Secretary Snow was unwilling to take on the issue at a hearing last week, even though the Treasury secretary chairs the committee that handles the review. The Committee on Foreign Investment, or CFIUS, is supposed to look at deals that endanger national security. But that usually involves reviewing sensitive technology, not natural resources.
The review is also very quick, usually 30 days. Even an extended investigation is only 45 days.
Bob Ney of Ohio wrote a letter asking for the Committee on Foreign Investment to expand their role and look at natural resources for the first time as a security issue. "To this end, I am requesting that you exert the committee's ability to review and possibly suspend or prohibit this attempted foreign acquisition of a U.S. corporation."
In a letter to members of Congress today, the chairman of CNOOC, Fu Chengyu, clearly trying to dispel the outcry, saying they planned all along to participate in a review, adding, "We know this bid is historic for both companies and will be closely scrutinized by everyone involved. I know this transaction would create great interest and debate."
PILGRIM: Now, Congress's intent, that this not be linked to other issues like currency or general trade with China. They fear if it is, it will slide by in the interest of not creating a sore point with the Chinese. But this is not business as usual. And national security is too big an issue to ignore -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much. Astoundingly, the Bush administration appears resigned rather than outraged by China's blatant grab for U.S. oil interests. An unnamed adviser to President Bush tells "The New York Times," anonymously, "We have so much on the plate with China, how do you come down hard on them for this deal?"
And an unnamed State Department official told us today that, overall, the U.S. welcomes foreign investment. The official said, "It is important to work with China on the role they play and help them manage their economic decision-making in ways that maximize the way forward for all."
Despite the serious questions that this deal raises for U.S. national and economic security, State Department spokesperson Steven Pike says the Treasury Department is taking the lead on this issue in the Bush White House. Treasury Secretary John Snow had a chance to show his concern about the security implications of the Unocal bid at a Senate hearing last week. And the Treasury secretary refused in this exchange with Oregon Senator Ron Wyden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Do you intend to review the Chinese bid to buy Unocal? And what is your initial read of this particular bid?
JOHN SNOW, TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, Senator, of course the Exxon-Florio process provides -- provides for the national security review that you -- that you alluded to, where a foreign company acquires a U.S. company. It's hypothetical at this point, though, because we don't have a transaction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And at the same Senate hearing, Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan also declined to take on the issue, saying he sees China's rush to compete with the United States not as a security threat, but as a bold move toward capitalism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN GREENSPAN, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: You're getting a former communist system which is still politically a communist system, recognizing that market capitalism is where they want to be, which is an extraordinary change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: An extraordinary change, but it is important to note that CNOOC is -- the Chinese oil company -- 70 percent owned by the Chinese government. Perhaps the Fed chairman did not notice that.
Meantime, some in the investment community want to blame the United States for this deal. Billionaire investor Warren Buffet says, "If we're going to consume more than we produce, we have to expect to give away a little part of the country." And "The Wall Street Journal" said this in an editorial: "We can envision some Chinese acquisitions that might deserve to be blocked, but the bar ought to be high and limited to serious security issues. The assets of a publicly traded energy company don't meet that test. The fact that a Chinese oil company wants to buy American is a sign of progress, not concern."
We also talked with several business groups and think tanks in Washington to find out their position on China's aggressive bid for Unocal. The majority, by far the majority, has no official position at all. The groups include the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the American Petroleum Institute, the Business Roundtable, the American Enterprise Institute and the Brookings Institution. In fact, the only group to take a position is The Heritage Foundation, and they are opposed to the deal for issues of national security.
China's controversial bid to buy Unocal is also raising some uncomfortable questions obviously at the White House. Today a reporter asked the White House press secretary how the president felt about the Chinese hiring a public relations firm which is partly owned by one of the president's top campaign advisers.
The White House reiterated that the deal was being reviewed by the Treasury Department. But he avoided the question about CNOOC's ties to the White House.
Here, then, are the facts.
The Chinese oil company hired a public relations firm, Public Strategies, Inc. It's based in Austin, Texas, which has close ties to the White House.
Mark McKinnon, the vice chairman of that company, led President Bush's media campaign in 2004. McKinnon also prepped the president for his debates. CNOOC also acquired the services of Mark Palmer, the company's managing director who formally served as the public relations director for Enron.
Well, foreign companies already have a significant presence, of course, in the U.S. energy industry. But a Chinese takeover of Unocal would give communist China control of key U.S. oil and gas assets for the first time ever.
Christine Romans reports.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amoco, now owned by British Petroleum. Shell, now Royal Dutch Shell. In fact, foreign ownership of critical American energy assets has now reached 13 percent of oil and gas production, 12 percent of domestic natural gas production, and almost 30 percent of domestic refining.
Citgo is controlled by Venezuela. And the Saudis operate through joint ventures here as well. Russia's Lukoil now operates gas stations. But many fear China's intentions are far more threatening. ROBIN WEST, PFC ENERGY: You have companies like BP and Shell, then you have these government companies, such as Saudi Aramco or Petroleos de Venezuela. They have invested billions of dollars in refineries in the United States, but what they want to do is they want to be assured of access for their crude oil in the U.S. market.
They were bringing oil to the U.S. This clearly benefits the United States.
ROMANS: In the U.S., China would control oil pipelines and gas storage across North America, key assets in Alaska's Cook Inlet and North Slope. And most concerning, technology for Alaskan oil production and deep sea drilling that could have military applications. Giving the communist government of China such a strategic asset would be a mistake.
GAL LUFT, INSTITUTE FOR ANALYSIS OF GLOBAL SECURITY: We need to decide whether we are willing to commit economic suicide in the outer (ph) of free trade. You know, in this country, free trade has become sacrosanct. Everybody is very averse to protectionism. We feel that our role in the world is to proliferate free trade, and, you know, sometimes we need to draw a line.
ROMANS: Still, others are relatively unconcerned.
PAVEL MOLCHANOV, RAYMOND JAMES: You know, I think that China at this point is -- while it is governed by the communist party, indeed, it is very much a capitalist society. It has been for over 20 years now.
ROMANS: But China takes a much longer view of what makes economic sense. This is a country, Lou, that has an unwavering commitment to the national Chinese agenda.
DOBBS: And the national interest in this country is not always clearly in focus on the part of our policymakers. Christine, thank you. Christine Romans.
In the oil market today, new concerns about the supply of oil. Oil futures, in fact, closed at a record high in New York. The closing price, $60.54, an all-time high.
There's also been a huge run-up in gasoline prices. The Lundberg Survey showing average gasoline prices rising to $2.21 over the past two weeks, an increase of 8 cents -- 8 cents short of the all-time record.
A successful Chinese takeover of Unocal would turn CNOOC into a major force in the international oil business, a deal that would give China access to critically important oil reserveness in this country, Asia, and other parts of the world.
Bill Tucker has the report.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China promises that any American-produced oil and natural gas will stay in America. It's an easy promise to make. Only one-third of Unocal's reserves are in the United States and Canada. California-based Unocal's more important reserves to China are in Brazil, the Netherlands, the Congo, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam.
CLYDE PRESTOWITZ, ECONOMIC STRATEGY INSTITUTE: The Chinese are obsessed with long-term energy security, and assuring that. And they're making investments all over the world in companies and in oilfields. And this is part of that.
TUCKER: Almost 60 percent of Unocal's proven reserves are in Asia, in China's back yard. And the ball is just getting rolling.
FADEL GHEIT, OPPENHEIMER: China became an importer of oil only in the last three years from being an exporter of oil. And its energy and oil demand continues to increase very rapidly. And they definitely want to secure energy supply for their future economic growth.
TUCKER: This acquisition is also part of a greater strategy for China's rise as a global power. China wants the energy to run its factories, fuel its economy and finance its military.
AMB. JAMES LILLEY, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Their oil policy is part of an overall policy of military buildup, acquisition of influence in the world, extending Chinese power.
TUCKER: Also a potential interest, Unocal's Molycorp division. It's a rare earth mineral mining company which provides essential minerals needed to make cell phones, computers and missile guidance systems.
TUCKER: This is not likely to be China's last attempt at any energy acquisition. Years of record trade deficits have made the Chinese flush with U.S. dollars, as we've been talking about on this program for a while, Lou. And they have plenty to finance any deals they would like to make.
DOBBS: Yes, they do. In point of fact, one way to look at this deal is that the United States would have paid for this acquisition with one-tenth of our trade deficit with China from last year alone.
Bill, thank you very much. Bill Tucker.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe the sale of Unocal to China threatens U.S. national security, yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Still ahead, a series of critically important rulings today by the U.S. Supreme Court -- one of them on religious monuments on public buildings. I'll be joined by our senior legal analyst, and we'll find out what the Ten Commandments have to do with government.
Chilling testimony in the BTK court case. The serial killer describes how he murdered his victims in cold blood.
And a new shark attack on a teenager in the Gulf of Mexico. The second in three days. That report, a great deal more still ahead.
DOBBS: The Supreme Court today closed its term with a number of major decisions. Two of them addressing whether the Ten Commandments can be displayed on government property.
The court ruled 5-4 that posting the Ten Commandments in courthouses in Kentucky violates the separation of church and state. But the high court ruled in a separate 5-4 decision that a monument to the Ten Commandments at the state capitol in Texas does not violate the Constitution.
The Supreme Court also refused to hear the appeals of "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller and "TIME" magazine's Matthew Cooper. A federal appellate court ruled those reporters should go to jail for refusing to name their confidential sources in the Valeria Plame CIA case.
Chief Justice William Rehnquist adjourned the court without any mentioning of whether he or any other justice plans to retire. The White House has been actively planning for a vacancy on the court. Any announcement could come between now and when the court reopens in October.
Joining me now, CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin, to tell us what the difference is between Kentucky and Texas in the court's view -- Jeff.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: One vote. That's really about it.
DOBBS: In both cases.
TOOBIN: I mean, both decisions were 5-4. The only justice in the majority in both cases was Stephen Breyer, who is not usually the swing vote. But basically the gist seems to be, to the extent that these decisions can be reconciled, is that the Texas monument had been there for a long time. It had apparently both a secular and a religious interpretation.
The Kentucky Ten Commandments was very clearly religious in its intent. So the purpose and the context seems to be what the court is looking for. But what these decisions guarantee is that there'll be lots more courts dealing with lots more Ten Commandments issues, because the rules are pretty murky at this point.
DOBBS: Murky language in those decisions, murky outcome, 5-4 decisions. In fact, so tortured was the reasoning in those cases that Moses was referred to as also an attorney. What do you make of that? TOOBIN: Well, it was really interesting. I had never seen the Supreme Court building referred to in an opinion. But as Justice Souter was reading his opinion in the Kentucky case, he sort of pointed to the ceiling of the Supreme Court, and he said, "Well, we have Moses up there, but he's in a law-giving context."
If you look at the (INAUDIBLE) in the Supreme Court, Moses and the Ten Commandments is perceived as a law giver, not a religious figure. That's a -- whether you're persuaded or not, I don't know. But that's what Justice Souter said.
DOBBS: I'm neither persuaded nor satisfied with that kind of reasoning from any corridor, but especially the Supreme Court, that's voting 5-4, Jeffrey. As I suspect in your more candid moments, you would also agree.
There is no word on Supreme Court Justice Rehnquist. An expectation that he will retire. Any insight?
TOOBIN: Well, I've watched him for a long time, and I've watched him over the course of the spring since he's returned from his sick leave. Lou, he really looked terrible.
He was very hard to understand. His voice is amplified because he has a trach tube. He looked even more drawn, even more exhausted.
He's obviously a very sick man. But he's a tough guy. He's 80 years old. He doesn't appear -- he certainly didn't leave today, and he may be trying to hang on there. But I have to say, I was really shocked by how poorly he looked in court today.
DOBBS: No shock in the court's action, or lack of action, if you will, on the case of Matthew Cooper of "TIME" magazine, Judith Miller of "The New York Times"?
TOOBIN: No. They are -- they are in deep and serious trouble.
The lower court ruling found them in contempt of court today. The Supreme Court said they would not review that ruling. So unless some deal can be worked out with the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, it really looks like that reporter for "TIME" magazine and the other for "The New York Times" are going to be going to prison.
DOBBS: And it is critically important what happens to the national press over the course of the next 30 to 60 days. And those discussions end negotiations. Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much.
TOOBIN: OK, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead, I'll be joined by the attorney general of the state of Texas. He argued the Ten Commandments case before the Supreme Court and he won today.
In Kansas today, chilling testimony from the man who now admits that he is the serial killer who terrorized Wichita for more than two decades. Dennis Rader, a former church president and Boy Scout leader, pleaded guilty to 10 counts to first-degree murder. The pleas come as his trial was just about to begin.
The married father of two told the judge in a calm and matter-of- fact voice how he stalked and then killed his victims. We want to warn you that the testimony he is about to give is deeply disturbing. You may wish to turn away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENNIS RADER, BTK KILLER: I proceeded to tie her up. She got sick, threw up. I got her a glass of water, comforted her a little bit, and then went ahead and tied her up, and then put a bag over her head and strangled her.
First of all, Mr. Otero was strangled -- or a bag put over his head and strangled. Then I thought he was going down. Then I went over and strangled Mrs. Otero. I thought she was down.
Then I strangled Josephine, and she was down. And then I went over to junior and put the bag on his head.
After that, Mrs. Otero woke back up, and, you know, she was pretty upset. "What's going on?" So I came back, and at that point in time strangled her for the death strangle at that time.
JUDGE GREGORY WALLER: With your hands or what?
RADER: No, with a cord. With a rope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Rader will be sentenced in August.
Coming up next here, are U.S. officials meeting with insurgents and terrorists who have killed more than 1,700 American troops in Iraq? The Pentagon is now trying to clarify comments by the secretary of defense. Our special report is next.
And then China moving to buy vital energy resources of this country. And so far, our government has done nothing to stop it.
One official who says the United States must take action to protect our national security joins us here next.
Stay with us.
DOBBS: A grand jury in New York has indicted two U.S. citizens for conspiring to provide material support for al Qaeda. The indictment names the two as a physician, Rafiq Sabir, and a jazz musician, Tarik Shah. They allegedly engaged in meetings and conversations with a confidential source and an undercover FBI agent acting as an al Qaeda recruiter. The two men are scheduled to be arraigned tomorrow.
In Iraq today, a U.S. Army Apache helicopter crashed north of Baghdad. Its two crew members were killed.
A witness told The Associated Press the helicopter was hit by a rocket. The Pentagon says it is investigating.
In Baghdad, a U.S. soldier killed today in small arms fire, and a car bombing near a crowded market killed four Iraqis, wounding 29 others.
Iraq's prime minister today said securing Iraq should take no longer than two years. Ibrahim al-Jaafari met with British Prime Minister Tony Blair in London. Just yesterday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said securing Iraq could take as long as 12 years.
Secretary Rumsfeld also acknowledged that U.S. officials have met with insurgent leaders in Iraq. Today the defense secretary stepped back from his comments and said the talks did not involve insurgents who are killing American troops and Iraqis every day. But Secretary Rumsfeld did not rule out the possibility of such talks in the future.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite weekend comments that seem to confirm the U.S. military had held face-to-face talks with insurgent leaders in Iraq, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld now says the characterization of the meetings is overblown.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There are meetings going on all the time between people in Iraq and other people in Iraq, attempting to get them to be supportive of the government, which is obviously the logical thing one does in a political process.
QUESTION: Point of clarification?
RUMSFELD: No. And certainly not with people like Zarqawi. I mean, that's just someone's imagination running wild.
MCINTYRE: The top U.S. commander in Iraq insists most meetings are low-level affairs between U.S. officers and local Iraqi or tribal leaders. But some are with senior Sunni leaders, who, while not sympathetic to the U.S., are not believed to be directly behind attacks.
GEN. GEORGE CASEY, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: There are discussions. And they're discussions primarily aimed at bringing the Sunni leaders and the people they represent into the political process. But to characterize them as negotiations with insurgents about stopping the insurgency, we're not quite there yet.
MCINTYRE: But neither Rumsfeld nor Casey would rule out dealing directly with insurgent leaders in the future. And a Marine officer who's written a book on insurgencies thinks it's worth doing. COL. T.X. HAMMES, AUTHOR, "THE SLING & THE STONE": If we can separate out the support elements from these people by talking to them, it's a positive thing. Keep in mind it's a political struggle, not a military struggle. So use your political skills to get there.
MCINTYRE: Today Defense Secretary Rumsfeld also clarified his statement over the weekend that it could take up to 12 years to defeat the insurgent in Iraq, saying that he could envision Iraq's government and economy flourishing, even as they deal with a low-level insurgency over several years -- Lou.
DOBBS: A lot of clarification for one day from the Pentagon. Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much.
Our quote of the day tonight comes from General George Casey, the commander of the multinational forces in Iraq. In response to a question about using U.S. troops to secure Iraq's border with Syria, General Casey today said, "Let's be clear. You talk about sealing borders. We can't even seal our own border here in the United States."
When we come back, why China's bid for Unocal should be setting off alarm bells at this White House. I'll be talking with a China expert who says the United States should stop this bid and soon.
Also: He fought to display the Ten Commandments all the way to the supreme court and he won the case -- I'll be talking with the attorney general of the state of Texas, who is savoring a sweet victory tonight.
A polarizing new book on a polarizing politician: I'll be talking with author Ed Klein about his controversial look into the life of Senator Hillary Clinton.
Stay with us.
DOBBS: Tonight: The second shark attack in the Gulf of Mexico in three days. Authorities say a teenager, tonight, is in stable condition, after being attacked off Cape San Blas on the Florida panhandle. The teenager was apparently fishing in waist-deep water, when the shark attacked, biting his right thigh. The attack comes just two days after a 14-year-old girl was killed by a shark at a nearby beach in the panhandle. An autopsy shows she was attacked by a 6-foot bull shark.
Turning to our top story tonight: China's aggressive bid for Unocal. My guest tonight, says it's a threat to our national security, plain and simple, and if the deal we're to go through, China would deny the United States access to critical, major energy resources, both oil and natural gas, and it could affect our ability to defend this country. Joining me tonight, from Jacksonville, Florida, Richard D'Amato. He is the chairman of the highly influential U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission.
Good to have you with us.
First: We have heard nothing, Dick, from the Bush administration on the record, on this deal. Are you surprised?
RICHARD D'AMATO: CHAIRMAN: No, I'm not surprised, Lou, because they're hiding behind the question that it's not yet ripe, because it's now in the hands of the shareholders of Unocal. Chevron has put a bid on the table that if the shareholders of Unocal agree to it, that's the end of it, the Chinese doesn't -- they don't get a shot at it.
But if that doesn't happen, then the Chinese bid will be front and center and so, the administration is trying to avoid making comments now until that occurs. When that occurs, it will go before a influential committee called the Committee on Foreign Investment of the United States.
DOBBS: Influential and secret, we might add.
D'AMATO: It's quite secret. Unfortunately, Congress created this committee, but did not put the kind of oversight powers of Congress in the statute, and the committee has operated in secret for about 20 years now. But we have been talking off the record to members of that committee, and there is concern in that committee about the national security implications of this deal.
China treats this as a national security matter itself. They're on a worldwide hunt for energy. Their president has been visiting Latin America, Africa and Southeast Asia. They've got three national oil companies out there trying to get all kinds of reserves and this is one example, the CNOOC attempt to get Unocal is the biggest example, in the U.S. market, of this government-led effort by the Chinese.
DOBBS: The fact that this bid can go this far, under the rubric, if you will, of free trade, is mind-boggling, because at a time when energy prices are soaring, and our dependency on foreign oil, it makes us extraordinarily vulnerable in terms of economic security and national security. It is mind-boggling that there wouldn't be a simple straightforward response from this government on this issue.
D'AMATO: I think that's true,Lou. I think that the Congress's level of attention on this matter has accelerated. We're in touch with the Congress and so any attempt by USCC's (ph) to sort of move this of the table wouldn't get very far. We're worried about it, because USCC's (ph) doesn't have a very good track record.
But on the other hand, the kind of pressure that Congress will bring to bear on this issue, is what we're hoping for, because after all, this is a government-led attack on the American oil industry. It's not a free trade deal. It's not a commercial deal, at all. DOBBS: It is, without question, in China. Their policymakers, leaders, are strategic in terms of economics, politics, and militarily. They see little distinction amongst those three elements of their strategy, correct?
D'AMATO: That is correct. It's all a seamless web. They regard the energy patch here as probably the most important element of their national security strategy, because they now are importing three million barrels of oil a day. So, they're vulnerable and they're a little paranoid, they don't like being vulnerable.
So, they're trying to control all of these reserves. So, when they buy these reserves, they don't put them on the open international market, the oil market, they horde them and control them and that's what we're worried about, because that will deny American access to the reserves that, in the first place, was controlled by an American company.
DOBBS: Dick D'Amato, the chairman of the U.S.-China Economic Commission. Thanks for being here.
D'AMATO: Thank you, Lou.
A reminder, now, to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe the sale of Unocal to China would threaten our national security? Yes or no.
Vote at LouDobbs.com, we'll have the results at the conclusion of the broadcast.
Up next here: The supreme court allows the Ten Commandments on government property in one state, denies them in another state.
The attorney general of the state of Texas will be here to tell us how he won today in the Supreme Court and what it means for honoring our nation's history all across the nation.
And then: Deporting violence -- A Congressman's fight for fast track deportation of members of violent illegal-alien gangs in this country; illegal aliens in those gangs who, by the way, outnumber our sworn police officers.
He's our guest. Stay with us.
DOBBS: My next guest led the fight before the Supreme Court to keep a monument of the Ten Commandments at the Texas state capitol. The Supreme Court today, ruled to keep that monument in place, where it's been for more than 40 years. Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, joins us from Austin, Texas.
First, Mr. Attorney General, congratulations. You were confident in a victory, when we last talked the day you argued before the Supreme Court. The distinction between Texas and Kentucky seems, at least to a laymen -- many laymen I'm sure, somewhat tortured. How do you react?
GREG ABBOTT, TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: I would say it's somewhat like splitting legal hairs, but there is a very meaningful legal difference. In Texas, the Supreme Court recognized that it is perfectly constitutional for Texas to recognize the historical significance the Ten Commandments have played in the development of our law and culture.
On the flip side, what happened in Kentucky is the court focused on what was the purpose of why Kentucky made that display. And they said that it was a religious purpose, as opposed to a non-religious purpose.
DOBBS: And then they decided that Moses was a law-giver, as opposed to a religious figure. You didn't find that a bit tortured?
ABBOTT: Well, I think the Supreme Court is struggling to find exactly where the Constitution -- or where a constitutional interpretation should fall down in this regard.
The bottom line is, if you look at it from the broad perspective, this is a great day not just for Texas, but for America, because the Supreme Court was very, very clear. And that is, government is not required to purge all reference to anything religious. Instead, it is perfectly constitutional for states to highlight the very meaningful historical role that the Ten Commandments have played in the development of our laws and legal systems.
DOBBS: Religious history is OK, even if religion itself is not -- not?
ABBOTT: Well, I would say even based upon today's decision, it is constitutional for states to recognize the historical role that religion has played. I think the legal hair-splitting comes down to whether or not the purpose of the state is to try to kind of endorse or support or push a particular religious belief.
In this instance, Texas did not do that. In this case, apparently, the Supreme Court believed that Kentucky did.
DOBBS: When you and I talked in March, after your arguments before the Supreme Court, you thought Sandra Day O'Connor would be the swing vote. It turned out to be Stephen Breyer. What happened?
ABBOTT: Well, when I made the argument to the court, Justice Breyer was asking questions that were very, very consistent with the position that we were taking. And so in the end, I'm not surprised that he wound up voting consistent with the way he was asking questions from the bench. Obviously, we wish that Sandra Day O'Connor had joined with us, but at least we got five votes allowing Texas to continue to display the Ten Commandments monument on the Capitol grounds that you see behind me.
DOBBS: Attorney General Greg Abbott, congratulations again. Thanks for being here.
ABBOTT: My pleasure. Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Anderson, tell us all about it.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much. Yeah, it is rare we get to see into the mind of a madman, a serial killer, someone who stalked and killed family members over the course of some 20 years. That is what we saw today in a Wichita courtroom. Tonight, a special edition of "360." We are looking at the mind of Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, a man who today confessed to 10 murders over the span of some 20 years. It was an extraordinary account in his own words of how he bound, tortured and killed people. We'll have his life in his own words coming up next on "360" -- Lou.
DOBBS: Anderson, thank you.
And coming up here next, dangerous gangs, stalking American streets. I'll be talking with a congressman fighting to kick illegal alien gang members out of the country.
Also, his new book on Hillary Clinton, drawing fire from both the left and the right. Ed Klein, the author of "The Truth About Hillary." He'll be here to tell us whether he's an investigative reporter or a proponent of the politics of personal distraction. Stay with us.
DOBBS: Gang violence is reaching crisis proportions in this country. There are as many as 800,000 gang members roaming our streets and committing crimes, and a large percentage of those gang members are illegal aliens.
Congressman Randy Forbes, Republican of Virginia, has introduced new legislation that he says would help cut down on gang violence, and deal with illegal alien criminals, joining us tonight from Washington, D.C. Good to have you here.
REP. RANDY FORBES (R), VIRGINIA: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: I'd like to begin by focusing on the relationship between gang members and sworn police officers in this country. So if you would be patient, we're going to put up a graphic here, and I'd like to get to a few issues on this.
First, the number on the left, sworn police officers throughout the country -- the 850,000 gang members outnumbering by a sizable margin the number of police officers in the entire country.
Congressman, my first question is, what percentage of those gang members, in your estimation, are illegal aliens?
FORBES: Lou, it's not just my estimation; it's what we've heard from the FBI and other individuals of law enforcement who have testified or talked to us. Well over half, and some people indicate as many as two-thirds of them are here illegally in the United States today.
DOBBS: And of that group, most people immediately think of Mexico and illegal aliens, because most of the illegal aliens, obviously by a vast preponderance, are crossing our southern border. But there is another country that concerns you more.
FORBES: Well, the most violent criminal gang in America today is MS-13, and most of them have come here from El Salvador, a large portion of that gang.
DOBBS: And your legislation that would require deportation of these illegal aliens, how will that work, and how will we be able to identify those people?
FORBES: Well, Lou, first of all, there's two points that most people don't realize. If someone is coming in the front door today, they're coming into the United States, and they have a visa application. If they had a sign that said, "I'm a member of a violent criminal gang," if they stamped it on their visa application, we still would not stop them from coming in.
So the first thing we do is to say, if you're a member of a violent criminal gang, we don't let you in the door.
But you and I both know most of them don't come into the front door. They come in here illegally.
We have a small loophole in our immigration laws called temporary protected status, which basically means that there are a large number of gang members in the United States today, who, even if they were standing outside of your office and they had a sign that said, "I'm here illegally, I'm a member of a violent criminal gang," we could not legally deport them.
This bill says that we can deport you if you're here illegally, if you're a member of a violent criminal gang, regardless of temporary protected status, and we will hold you until you have a hearing. Because if we just arrest someone, and then we tell them they're going to have a hearing, 85 percent of them never even show up.
DOBBS: And Congressman, as you well know, one of the reasons that many illegal aliens today, whether they have committed crimes in this country or not, members of violent gangs or not, we simply don't have detention centers with adequate room to put them in.
FORBES: Well, that's true. And the other thing is, Lou, we don't want to wait until we have victims before we deport those individuals out of the country. There's simply no socially redeeming value for an individual to be in this country and be a member of a violent criminal gang, especially when they're here illegally.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. You know that many of your colleagues in Congress disagree with you violently, if I may use the expression, committed to ignoring immigration laws, committed to ignoring border security, committed to not wanting to deal with the estimated half-million criminal illegal aliens abroad in the country. How do you proceed from here?
FORBES: Well, we're going to have a hearing tomorrow before the Subcommittee on Immigration and the Judiciary Committee. We were successful in getting a large gang bill passed just a few weeks ago, when everyone said it was an uphill battle. We believe we're going to be successful in getting this legislation through, because it just makes good common sense. And I think the people across America are just going to support the provisions we have in the bill.
DOBBS: I think, Congressman, everyone who is concerned about our border security and enforcement of our immigration laws and dealing with rising gang violence in this country wishes you all the very best of luck.
FORBES: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Thanks for being here.
FORBES: Thank you for having us.
DOBBS: Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight, a preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Also, I'll be talking with the author of the controversial new biography of Hillary Clinton. His book has set off harsh criticism from the left -- you might expect that -- but the right? Why the book and its author are under attack from all quarters, next. Stay with us.
DOBBS: The book has only been out a week, and there is a fire storm over the Clinton biography by Edward Klein. His book is already drawing fire from prominent conservatives as well as liberals, who aren't happy with Klein's salacious biography. Clinton's press secretary accused the author of writing trash for cash.
And joining me now to talk about this book, its political implications and the controversy and fire storm surrounding it, Edward Klein. Klein formerly editor in chief of "New York Times" magazine, also foreign editor at "Newsweek," the author of "The Truth About Hillary: What She Knew, When She Knew It, How Far She'll Go to Become President." Ed, good to have you here.
EDWARD KLEIN, AUTHOR, "THE TRUTH ABOUT HILLARY": Nice to be here.
DOBBS: Let's start out with a couple of things, in terms of this book. It is extraordinary, the suggestion that Hillary Clinton, while the line is not direct, there's no question you're suggesting that she is a lesbian, a homosexual, if you will. There's no question that you are suggesting -- I know that you have denied this -- but in reading the language, it's pretty clear you're suggesting something less or something more, rather, than a joke when you were talking about Bill Clinton raping Hillary Clinton.
KLEIN: Well, I think both of those items have been taken way out of context. First of all, there is no rape scene in my book. Bill Clinton said to a bunch of friends, "I'm going back to my cottage to rape my wife." And they laughed at him. And he laughed when he said it. It was a joke. It was a jest.
DOBBS: But you followed on with that with, again, one source talking about her returning to the room, which was completely trashed. The connection is fairly obvious. And one...
KLEIN: But the source never said...
DOBBS: ... assuming it's implied as well as inferred.
KLEIN: Look, the source never said that he saw a rape, or that there was a rape. What he said was he saw the results of another one of the Clintons' very famous to-do's. You know, the Clintons have had Jerry Springer time free-for-alls all their married life.
DOBBS: And the controversy over this, because of the salacious nature of it, and the highly personal attacks that you bring to bear -- I understand you can argue that as a biographer, you have to bring the negative with the positive. But this is reaching to a level of personal -- a personal level that is -- it's extraordinary.
KLEIN: The whole question of sex was first raised by the Clintons as national discourse at our dining room tables, not by me, and not by anybody else. It was Bill Clinton and his wife who brought that subject up. It's impossible to do a biography of Hillary without discussing...
DOBBS: Hillary Clinton, though -- do you really think Hillary Clinton brought it up?
KLEIN: ... the question -- well, Hillary Clinton knew about Monica Lewinsky for two years before the scandal even broke, and she covered up for her husband. So this whole Lewinsky matter was an intrusion on our national consciousness.
DOBBS: Well, talking about the national consciousness, I mean, you have garnered some extraordinary attention. "The Economist" magazine: "The best that can be said about him" -- you -- "is that you are a zealous muckraker. Peggy Noonan, writing in "The Wall Street Journal..."
KLEIN: Zealous muckraker is not so bad.
DOBBS: Yes, I was going to say, I think that they didn't understand the derivative term of "muckraker."
KLEIN: That's pretty good.
DOBBS: But Noonan: "The book is poorly written, poorly thought out and poorly sourced."
KLEIN: She's got her own book to sell, on Hillary.
DOBBS: John Podhoretz -- John Podhoretz -- this is one of the... KLEIN: He's also got a book to sell on Hillary.
DOBBS: But we've got to read what he says first anyway. "This is one of the most sordid volumes I've ever waded through." And then he went into rather colorful language about how far he waded through it, which I thought was...
KLEIN: You know, I think this is a big distraction by some people in the media to take our attention away from what the book is really about. The book is not about sex. The book is not about rape. The book is about a character study of Hillary Clinton. And that's what I set out to do. And I think that's the important issue, since she's running for president of the United States.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask our director something. Do we have a clip of what Billy Graham said this weekend about the Clintons? Can we roll that and -- for the audience and for Ed Klein? I want to get your reaction to what Billy Graham, the noted, wonderful evangelist had to say yesterday, with the Clintons in attendance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. BILLY GRAHAM, EVANGELIST: I thought that when he left the presidency, he should be an evangelist. Because he has all the gifts. And he could leave his wife to run the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Billy Graham either read your book or didn't agree with the conclusions. That's a remarkable endorsement, statement of personal affection and regard. Do you believe that Hillary Clinton is, in your judgment, qualified to be president of the United States?
KLEIN: I don't believe in coincidences, and I don't believe that Hillary Clinton was sitting on the stage with the most famous evangelist in America at a time when she's trying to convince the entire country that she believes in God, prayer, family, patriotism, and she isn't a leftist.
DOBBS: You also, Maura Moynihan, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan's daughter...
DOBBS: ... said you were lying when you said that he despised Hillary Clinton.
KLEIN: You know, I looked at my transcript of my conversation with Mrs. Moynihan, whom I've known for 30 years, ever since I met her and Pat in New Delhi when he was ambassador. And that transcript begins with her saying, after I tell her I'm writing this book, "I can't stand that woman." So it was a long interview that I conducted with Mrs. Moynihan, and I have, of course, the record of that.
DOBBS: Well, a number of networks and broadcasts have canceled your show. We thank you for being here. When do you appear again on television?
KLEIN: Well, whenever the Clintons stop preventing me from appearing, since they've done a full court press with ABC, CBS, and NBC to keep me off.
DOBBS: Ed Klein. The book is "The Truth About Hillary." We don't know whether it is, but it is a highly controversial and provocative book. Good to have you here.
KLEIN: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: And we'll continue to have folks, irrespective of what the other folks are doing.
The results of our poll tonight: 94 percent of you say the sale of Unocal to China threatens our national security; 6 percent disagree.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Red storm, China's move to take control of a key U.S. oil company. A former Pentagon official telling us why we simply can't afford to let that happen. Be with us, please.
For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starting right now -- Anderson.
COOPER: Lou, thanks very much.
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