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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Deadly Crash; Spy Shake-Up; Red Storm; Duncan Hunter Interview; Capitol Evacuated
Aired June 29, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Tonight, a new national intelligence service for the FBI. But will the latest intelligence reforms help us win the war against radical Islamist terrorists?
Scathing criticism tonight over the failure to stop criminals, illegal aliens and even possible terrorists from obtaining U.S. passports.
And when is a congressional pay increase not a raise? Well, when the House leadership calls it an adjustment.
We begin tonight with what could be one of the worst losses of American lives in the war in Afghanistan. Rescuers are still trying to recover bodies after a U.S. Chinook helicopter crashed near the Pakistan border. Military officials tonight said they fear all 17 Special Operation troops on the helicopter were killed.
Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The MH-47 is a Special Operations version of the Chinook twin rotor troop transport, and it was ferrying a quick reaction team of Navy commandos into a remote part of eastern Afghanistan when it appears it was shot down by ground fire.
GEN. PETER PACE, VICE CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We think it was a rocket-propelled grenade, sir, but not 100 percent sure. And that will come out in time as we're able to get to the scene and do the investigation required. So our hearts go out to their -- to their families.
MCINTYRE: Getting to the scene, the site of a steep mountain close to the rugged Afghanistan-Pakistan border, has not been easy. But by nightfall Wednesday, more than a day after the crash, U.S. forces had moved in around the site. And an Air Force A-10 attack plane had fired three rockets to suppress enemy fire.
According to military officials, all 17 Americans onboard the helicopter are believed dead. But no official confirmation will come until the bodies have been recovered. Sources say the eight men SEAL team was being flown in to reinforce U.S. troops caught in a fierce firefight with suspected al Qaeda militants. COL. JAMES YONTS, U.S. ARMY: Coalition troops on the ground in this area came in contact with enemy forces and requested additional forces to be inserted into this operation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: One Pentagon official said that what this shoot-down may show is that the U.S. and Afghanistan is also facing a thinking enemy, one that realizes that when U.S. troops are engaged on the ground, the reinforcements in the air are usually not far behind. And it may have used that information to target the helicopter -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre.
Before the helicopter crash, nearly 200 Americans had been killed in Afghanistan, 81 Americans had been killed in combat in Afghanistan since October 2001, another 114 Americans have been killed in accidents. And in addition, 39 coalition troops have been killed in Afghanistan. Nearly half of them from Germany.
In Iraq, more than 1,000 U.S. Marines and Iraqi troops are sweeping through the western part of the country hunting insurgents. The operation is the latest in a series of offensive thats target insurgents and foreign terrorists. Officials say the Marines are meeting only "light resistance."
Meanwhile, in Baghdad, thousands of Iraqis are attending the funeral of a highly respected lawmaker killed in a suicide bombing. The lawmaker, Sheikh Dhary al-Ari Fayadh (ph) was the oldest member of Iraq's transitional assembly.
In this country, a new shake-up of our intelligence agencies in the war against radical Islamist terrorism. The Bush administration accepted nearly all the recommendations of a presidential commission on U.S. intelligence.
David Ensor has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Bush administration's move to accept 70 of 74 recommendations from the presidential commission on weapons of mass destruction intelligence appears to strengthen the hand of John Negroponte, the new director of national intelligence. Negroponte's deputy, General Michael Hayden, says, "That is partly because the implementation of these recommendations centers with the DNI."
Officials insist this is not just about moving the boxes of the bureaucracy.
FRAN TOWNSEND, WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: I think the steps that we're taking to strengthen the intelligence community help us to prevent terror attacks and, thereby, do keep the country safer. ENSOR: The steps include creating a National Security Service at the FBI, folding in counterterrorism, counter-espionage and analysis under a new official picked by the FBI director but with the agreement of the DNI; establishing a National Counter Proliferation Center with a director who will make sure the government is tracking WMD around the world; giving control of overseas human intelligence operations to the CIA.
On the last point, the White House overruled a commission suggestion that the new centers for counterterrorism and counter- proliferation play a role in covert action by spies and soldiers.
TOWNSEND: There were super persuasive and strong arguments made against doing that.
ENSOR: Hayden says a new human intelligence manager will be chosen in the next 60 days and will report to CIA Director Porter Goss. That's one key victory for an agency that has suffered multiple cuts in its influence in the reorganization so far.
As for the decision that FBI Director Mueller must cede some control to Negroponte, the director says it does not trouble him.
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Well, I don't see it as a loss of independence at all. I see it as an acknowledgement and a furtherance of the development of the FBI to respond to the threats of today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Along with the intelligence changes, the president issued an order for freezing the assets in the U.S. of any person or entity involved in the spread of weapons of mass destruction. The order specifically designates eight organizations in Iran, North Korea and Syria. Americans are forbidden to do business with any of them -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much. David Ensor.
Well, as David just mentioned, another example of reform today. President Bush gave U.S. authorities new powers to freeze assets of companies that help rogue states. The executive order targets companies believed to be helping North Korea, Iran, Syria develop weapons of mass destruction.
A new warning to North Korea today from the commanders of U.S. troops in South Korea. General Leon LaPorte declared that U.S. and South Korean troops can deter North Korea and defeat it if necessary. The general said the fact that North Korea may possess nuclear weapons makes no difference. His comments come as North Korea continues efforts to build up its sock of nuclear weapons.
Another critical foreign policy issue is gaining attention on Capitol Hill. An increasing number of lawmakers are opposed to China's bid to take over Unocal, one of our biggest energy companies. But the Bush administration remains fairly silent on this.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So concerned that communist China might buy a valuable strategic American resource, Congresswoman Carolyn Kilpatrick offered an amendment today to the Transportation Treasury Appropriations Bill, preventing the Treasury Department from approving the controversial deal.
REP. CAROLYN KILPATRICK (D), MICHIGAN: China is one of our biggest competitors. We talked about the debt that we already have with them.
Do we really want China to own another American business? And by the way, this would be the largest purchase from China, their national government. And I might add, too, this oil company is owned by the Communist Party in China. So there's a lot at stake here.
ROMANS: Any national security review would come from the Treasury Department's super-secret committee on foreign investments. The Kilpatrick amendment is meant to send a strong signal to that committee and to the White House that Congress wants the administration to be more aggressive in dealing with China. Indeed, the growing congressional opposition to this proposed deal is bipartisan.
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: This is, again, a no- brainer for me, but the American people need to find out whose side the Congress is on. This has turned -- the policies we've had to China in these last 20 years have created a Frankenstein monster that threatens not only the peace of the world, but threatens the prosperity of our people and the freedom of those who would seek freedom in China itself.
ROMANS: The potential deal many say proves economic security and national security are the same thing. China manipulates its currencies, subsidizes its factories and pays its workers so little, how can American workers compete? Even those free marketeers who approve of this deal think it will be blocked.
DONALD STRASZHEIM, STRASZHEIM GLOBAL ADVISORS: So this potential purchase by a Chinese company that is heavily owned by the Chinese government, a communist -- nominally communist government, is just simply the straw that broke the camel's back in Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact is...
ROMANS: Where tempers on China trade are already hot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Officially, Unocal is in a deal to be bought by ChevronTexaco. The Federal Trade Commission approved that deal on June 10. The SEC approved it today.
Unocal shareholders can either take the Chevron deal or decide they want to do business with a communist government. Of course, a State Department official late this afternoon says, any talk of a Unocal-China deal at this point is still hypothetical. There is that Chevron deal on the table.
PILGRIM: And Treasury Secretary John Snow last week said, well, we can't really discuss it until there's a bid, can we?
ROMANS: Absolutely.
PILGRIM: All right. We'll have to follow this quite closely. Thanks very much. Christine Romans.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
PILGRIM: Congress is taking action to stop your tax dollars from strengthening China's nuclear program. Now, we told you last night about government plans to loan billions to China so China can build four nuclear power plants. Since that report, the House has voted overwhelmingly to block the loans.
Vermont Congressman Bernie Sanders helped spearhead that measure. He says the loans from the U.S. Export-Import Bank are ludicrous, put our nation at risk. These loans aren't dead yet. Sanders' amendment is part of a wider funding bill still under debate in Congress.
When we return, Iraqis seized on the Mexican border.
Plus, the report on the illegal aliens that some say the government did not want you to see. We do have it for you.
And one of America's 10 most wanted could get a U.S. passport. Officials say it's still too easy for terrorists to get one. A startling new report on the gaping holes in our homeland security.
And crisis of conscience? Is the government out for revenge against whistleblowers? The story of one national security worker who says he was fired for trying to keep our nation safe.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: New concerns tonight about how easy it is for illegal aliens, even terrorists, to cross our broken border with Mexico. Now, Mexico has in custody two Iraqi nationals arrested in a Mexican border town while planning to sneak into the United States. The men say they were first contacted about the smuggling operation while living in Baghdad. They were trying to reunite with family members who live in San Diego.
Officials say the men do not have any ties to terrorism. But this is just the latest in a string of Iraqi nationals picked up in Mexico.
Also, in "Broken Borders" tonight, new charges that the Bush administration suppressed a stunning report on illegal aliens. The government report was released by Judicial Watch. It suggests that the Bush administration immigration policy is backfiring.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The same day President Bush announced his proposal for a guest worker program, the U.S. Border Patrol began polling illegal aliens caught entering the United States. The survey was supposed to last six months, but was cut short to only three weeks. The group Judicial Watch says it was because the Bush administration did not like the answers it was getting.
CHRISTOPHER FARRELL, JUDICIAL WATCH: Data has come out that the administration is uncomfortable with, so they've gone to this extraordinary length of directing the information to be suppressed or withheld in such a way that the American public and the media aren't told the truth.
SYLVESTER: Judicial Watch sued to get the survey results. Among the findings, the president's announcement had the unintended consequence of increasing illegal immigration.
Many illegal aliens interpreted the Bush plan to be a full amnesty. Responses included, "I am coming for the Bush amnesty program. Everyone is talking about it. That's why I crossed."
Forty-five percent said they were crossing based on amnesty rumors. Sixty-four percent of those detained said they had entered the United States illegally at least once before. And 43 percent said they planned to stay at least a year, 20 percent said forever.
The release documents include White House-approved talking points that say, "Do not provide statistics on apprehension spikes or past amnesty data."
Representative Tom Tancredo insists the Bush administration was withholding information to craft a more favorable view of his immigration plan.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: There's no doubt it was a cover-up. They said it. We have the -- we have the information. We have the e-mail. We have the directive.
Don't talk about this. How else would you describe that?
SYLVESTER: The illegal aliens surveyed were returned to their home country. But based on their responses, many may already be back in the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: A spokeswoman for the Border Patrol called the allegations of a cover-up absurd, and said the survey was part of normal operating procedure. It was called off because information was leaked to the media and the data was compromised -- Kitty. PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Well, there was also damning criticism today of this country's system for processing passport applications. The Government Accountability Office says criminals, illegal aliens, even possible terrorists can obtain passports far too easily.
Jeanne Meserve reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Eugene Webb, one of the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives for the brutal murder of a Pennsylvania police chief, considered armed, extremely dangerous, and an escape risk. But Webb could get a passport and flee because the State Department which issues them does not have his name or the name of many other fugitives on its lookout list.
A General Accountability Office report says the FBI does not share that information with the State Department or the names of U.S. citizens on the consolidated terrorist watch list. At a congressional hearing, shocked that this is the case almost four years after 9/11...
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: In this age of databases and computers, surely we ought to be able to come up with a system that allows us to stop issuing passports to fugitives wanted for serious crimes, and to terrorists.
MESERVE: Criminals and terrorists can also get passports by using someone else's identity. And documents like birth certificates, which are used to get passports, are easy to obtain.
According to the GAO, the majority of passport fraud uncovered in 2004 involved imposters using legitimate identification documents belonging to someone else.
MICHAEL L. JOHNSON, FMR. STATE DEPARTMENT SEC. SERVICE: If one document is issued to someone in an assumed or bogus identity, and that person goes off and commits a murder or flees the country, that's one too many. So I think we should expend every resource possible to prevent this from happening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: There is progress. On the eve of today's hearing, the FBI agreed to share with the State Department the names of U.S. citizens on the terrorist watch list.
Kitty, back to you.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Jeanne Meserve.
Well, coming up next, a crisis of conscience in the workplace. One American whose job it was to protect our national security says he was fired for doing just that. Our special report is next. And then Canada moves to close the medicine cabinet for Americans looking to buy cheap prescription drugs. How it could impact Americans who rely on cheap Canadian drugs to stay alive and stay out of bankruptcy.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Tonight, in "Crisis of Conscience," serious charges that national security officials are out to punish whistleblowers. Tonight, the story of one man who followed his conscience only to find himself isolated and eventually out of work.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The signs are everywhere encouraging us to say something if we see something suspicious. Russell Tice, a former high-ranking intelligence analyst, says doing just that cost him his job.
He went to his bosses in early 2001 and reported his suspicions that a co-worker could be a spy for the Chinese government. Something he admits that was not easy to do.
RUSSELL TICE, FMR. INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Everyone liked this young lady, as did I, for that matter. So, you know, I knew it was my responsibility to do this. And I also knew I would become the immediate bad guy in this whole situation.
TUCKER: He says that report got him reassigned from his job as an intelligence analyst for the National Security Agency to a variety of jobs, including pumping gasoline and moving furniture for that agency. His high-level security badge was replaced with a red one.
TICE: I was red-badged. And it's sort of like having a scarlet letter on your forehead. It's -- people that you formerly worked with will shun you. You know, you're ostracized, mainly because they're afraid of being associated with you.
TUCKER: Ultimately, his security clearance was revoked. And this past May, Tice lost his job. The NSA won't comment on the case specifically, but says it's policy to investigate claims of retaliation against employees.
Tice's case is not unusual, according to Washington's oldest whistleblower group, the Government Accountability Project. They charge that 80 percent of whistleblowers in the national security framework are retaliated against because the agencies know they can.
LOUIS CLARK, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT: Basically, bureaucracies don't like to be embarrassed. And if it becomes easy for a bureaucracy to bottle up information because these agencies are shrouded in secrecy, then they want to continue that status quo. TUCKER: It is little wonder, then, that employees from intelligence analysts to Border Patrol agents are afraid to speak out.
REP. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The message that is sent is clear: keep your mouth shut, don't go public with a huge security gap in the United States, or else your boses will retaliate against you.
TUCKER: Congressman Markey has introduced legislation that would extend the same protection to federal employees that Congress has provided corporate whistleblowers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Russell Tice is a 20-year veteran of the intelligence community, and he says if he had to do it over again, he would. Adding that to this day, Kitty, he's still not sure whether his former co-worker was or is a spy.
PILGRIM: You know, Bill, post-September 11, this is a really alarming story. How widespread is this?
TUCKER: Well, far more so than you would like to think. We see it all of the time in our reporting, in that there are border agents -- Border Patrol agents who will not speak to us -- to me -- on camera, on the record, for fear that if they do, they won't have a job.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker.
Well, one of the nation's most well-known whistleblowers is running for Congress. Former FBI agent Coleen Rowley will run as a Democrat in Minnesota's second congressional district. She'll take on Republican Congressman John Kline. Rowley made headlines for her memo blasting FBI intelligence failures before 9/11. Rowley and two other whistleblowers were named "TIME" magazine's "Person of the Year" in 2002.
Coming up, Canada wants to stop being America's drugstore. It's moving to cut off our supply of cheap prescription drugs.
Plus, the latest on China's grab for U.S. oil assets. Congressman Duncan Hunter is fighting to defeat China's bid for Unocal. He'll be my guest.
And after the Iraq speech, social insecurity, what President Bush must do to salvage his so-called reforms. Bill Schneider will have a report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Tonight, the National Academy of Sciences reports that low-level radiation exposure can pose a cancer risk. Now, for years, the nuclear industry and some independent scientists asserted that low-level radiation posed little to no harm.
Well, now the academy has revised this assessment, but the risks are small. For instance, a person who undergoes 10 whole-body CAT scans has a 1 percent chance of cancer.
Well, you could call it the Canada crackdown. Canadian officials are moving ahead with new measures to cut Americans off from cheap Canadian prescription drugs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UJJAL DOSANJH, CANADIAN HEALTH MINISTER: Canada cannot be a drugstore for the United States of America. Two hundred and eighty million people can't expect us to supply drugs to them, uncontrolled basis, for controlled prices within our pricing regime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The Canadian health minister says measures will include bans on bulk drug exports to this country when Canadian drug supplies are running low. He also says Canada will most likely force Americans to see a Canadian doctor before getting a Canadian drug prescription.
Now, thousands of Americans now simply fill their orders online from Canadian drugstores.
Joining us with a look at what this all means for Americans who enjoy access to Canada's cheap medications is Chellie Pingree, the president of the consumer advocacy group Common Cause. And she fought for the rights of Americans to get cheap prescription drugs while Maine's state Senate majority leader. And she joins us now.
Thanks for being here.
CHELLIE PINGREE, PRESIDENT, COMMON CAUSE: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
PILGRIM: What's your reaction? You were so into this cause when you were in government.
PINGREE: Well, I think it's somewhat shocking and very disturbinging for all those Americans who have come to depend on being able to purchase medications across the border in Canada. It clearly looks like the pharmaceutical manufacturers have been successful in the pressure they're putting on the Canadian government to stop this.
And on the one hand, you might say it's about time that, you know, the Congress did something about negotiating for a better price for prescription drugs. On the other hand, this has been a resource for Americans, and a growing resource.
I think it's a $700 million industry that continues to grow, because, in fact, the cost of medications in this country is so high. Americans pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs.
PILGRIM: Well, Canada's health minister says he's doing it to protect supply. What do you think of that explanation?
PINGREE: Well, I think the only way that supply could be constrained in Canada is if the pharmaceutical manufacturers cut it off. They have been threatening to do this. They're very disturbed by the growing numbers of people who are now accessing medications in Canada. They're disturbed by the bipartisan support of bills in Congress to allow for more re-importation of drugs.
Governors, mayors, a lot of, you know, branches of government are actually looking to Canada to purchase their medications, because what's different about the Canadian system is they negotiate with the pharmaceutical manufacturers for a better price. In fact, every western nation does that, but not the United States. And that results in the fact that, you know, your grandmother or you are paying the highest prices for medication of anybody in the world.
PILGRIM: Chellie, You point out there are four bills pending in Congress to legalize the imporation of Canadian drugs, but can the United States do anything about this action by Canada?
PINGREE: Well, it would be my understanding that if Canada decides to take this stand and you know, they will certainly still have to get some approval to do that, they could probably make this decision.
It may force Congress to actually act. In some ways, re- importation as it's called has been a back-door approach to buying lower priced medications in this country. It's been our inability to negotiate for the same good prices the Canadians do, that have put us into this fix.
But it seems ridiculous that Americans should have to go across the border. And being from Maine, I'm from one of the states where people do routinely cross the border and find tremendous discounts on the exact same medication that they're currently buying here in the United States.
PILGRIM: Yet, as state senate majority leader, you pushed for Maine to put through legislation that would keep the cost of prescription drugs fairly in line with those in Canada. How can we do this nationwide? I mean, it seems this inequity is really punitive to the American population.
PINGREE: It is, absolutely. In fact, when we were working on the bill in the main legislature, which passed with a very wide margin and was signed by the governor and is now enacted into law, the governor of the state said, you know, it's like being on the airplane and everybody else is riding in the cheap seats and you're paying full fare? That's what it's like to be American today.
And the fact is, that when Congress was negotiating the prescription drug benefit under Medicare, they specifically inserted a provision that said we can't negotiate for better prices. Very much lobbied by the pharmaceutical manufacturers who, as you know, invest a tremendous amount of money to lobby Congress, to determine public policy in the states and at the local level, and also to contribute to campaigns.
It is clearly a giveaway to the pharmaceutical manufacturers. That is the only reason we do this and it's not good for business and it's not good for average Americans who are trying to afford medication that they often can't pay for.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much for explaining it to us. Chellie Pingree, thank you.
PINGREE: Thank you.
PILGRIM: That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll.
Now, would the Canadian government's new requirements, including seeing a doctor in Canada, prevent you from seeking cheaper prescription drugs north of the border? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com.
We'll bring you the results, a little bit later in the broadcast.
On Capitol Hill today, House Republicans promised to push for a vote this year on Social Security reform. House Speaker Dennis Hastert says the bill will be a scaled-back version of President Bush's plan for private accounts. This renewed push comes as new polls suggest many Americans are not happy with how the president is handling Social Security.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Bush has spoken about his idea to allow workers to put some Social Security tax money in private accounts, at least 36 times this year. He has visited 28 states and the District of Columbia. What has the president gotten for all the attention to Social Security? Not much.
In January, 41 percent of the public approved of the way President Bush was handling Social Security. By June, Bush's approval rating on Social Security had dropped ten points to 31 percent. Democrats have kept a united front.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: Democrats in the Congress won't back down and the American people will not. United we stand to protect Social Security.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush defends his plan for private Social Security accounts in terms of generational interests.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're a younger American, you need to pay attention to this issue. I think this is a generational issue. Grandmothers and granddads have nothing to worry about. Their grandchildren have a lot to worry about.
SCHNEIDER: Younger workers have been relatively open to the president's ideas. Forty-two percent of adults under 30 approved of President Bush's handling of Social Security in January, while half disapproved. Six months later, their support is about the same.
But look at what's happened to support for the president's Social Security ideas among workers in their prime earning years: Down 13 points among Americans age 30 to 49; down 15 points among Americans 50 to 64 years old.
The more the president has talked about Social Security, the more he has turned off workers in their middle years. He never had seniors to begin with, despite his assurances...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
PILGRIM: Now to some breaking news from Washington. Capitol police ordered the evacuation of the U.S. Capitol. It is not clear why the Capitol was evacuated. There are reports that authorities received word of what's called an air incident and we will bring you details of this as they come to us. And we'll keep you -- here's video of the Capitol. It has just happened and so, we are bringing you the news as it comes to us. We will give you more details as they come in to us and keep our eye on that.
More now on another issue that's gaining attention on Capitol Hill: China's move to take control of a vital American oil company. Congressman Duncan Hunter and Congressman Richard Pombo sent a letter to President Bush urging him to review the Unocal bid.
Earlier, I asked Congressman Hunter, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, why he's troubled by China's move to buy American assets?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUNTER: Well, it's not just the fact that China is buying American assets, but what American assets are they buying? In this case, buying a major oil company, with all the strategic implications of that, is disturbing to me, as the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, from a national security point of view.
China is indeed a growing military power. We may at some point in the future -- we hope we're not, but we may at some point be in a conflict with China. Certainly, they're buying missile cruisers right now, which were designed by the Russians to do one thing, and that is kill American aircraft carriers. And the idea that they are buying an oil company, which has global reach and global resources and will be under the control not of some company that's based in China, but under the direct control of the Chinese communist government, I think is very disturbing.
PILGRIM: Now CNOOC is 70 percent owned by the Chinese government, and it's a communist Chinese country, which should not escape notice of U.S. legislators, should it?
HUNTER: The fact that this -- that we really see "China Incorporated" -- or that is "Communist China Incorporated" buying this company should be of very -- of utmost concern to American legislators. That means that they will have control of these incredible assets -- that is, proven oil reserves around the world; also, key pipelines; also technology, which is -- which has related military uses. And at the same time, they are producing engineers and scientists at a rate of 4-to-1 of the American production in our schools and universities of people in those disciplines. You're going to see people from Beijing taking those top engineer jobs in Unocal in the main company and subcontractors rather than Americans. And so that will be -- that will be a place, a landing spot for lots of people coming out of their academic positions.
And so overall, this could have far-reaching effects on America's competitiveness, but also America's security.
PILGRIM: Now I understand you're working with some other committee chairmen to bring a House resolution to the floor. What are you hoping to get from this? How are you hoping to proceed?
HUNTER: Well, we want to get -- we want to get the administration's attention on this and have a thorough review by the National Security Council, by the economic council, and also by this Committee on Foreign Investment, which is designed to do just what we want them to do, which is to focus on this investment, focus on this purchase by the communist Chinese government and analyze the impacts that will have, from my perspective, on American security.
PILGRIM: Now, the Committee on Foreign Investment does not have the power to block a deal, however.
HUNTER: No, but they can make a recommendation. And certainly the president can block this deal. And certainly legislation can block this deal. And we're going to see more of this. What we're seeking really, with this and with the purchase of IBM, one of the IBM divisions, a very high-tech division, and with new chip-making acquisitions, we're seeing the Chinese government acquiring what I would call an accumulation of levers, where they will have more and more leverage against the American position, whether it's an economic position or a military position. And at some point, they could get to the point where they feel that the United States will not block an invasion of Taiwan, for we will have too much to risk if we do try to block that. And at that point, the deterrence that we've established over many, many years, that has kept them from going across those Straits of Taiwan may be considered to have evaporated once they look at the series of leverages that they now have against the United States' interests.
So I think that in the interest of the United States, we should continue to deter China from being militarily aggressive. And the way you deter them is not to give them a handle on the U.S. economy or the U.S. security apparatus. This Unocal sale, along with other sales, gives them a handle on our future and on our military well-being.
PILGRIM: Let me ask you, on another geopolitical issue, as chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, what your reaction was to President Bush's speech and the fact that he said he is not sending any more troops to fight the Iraqi insurgency. What's your reaction?
HUNTER: Well, I think the president made a very strong point, which is that our exit strategy is a stand-up of the Iraqi military. And we have some 140,000 troops doing an excellent job in Iraq. But we have one of our most talented military leaders, General David Petraeus, head of the 101st Airborne in times past, who is basically in charge of the train up and stand-up of the Iraqi forces. And he is training them.
As those forces stand up, and we hand off that military burden, we bring American troops back.
PILGRIM: Well, thank you very much for your analysis on that. And thank you for joining us this evening. Duncan Hunter, thank you.
HUNTER: Good to be with you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Back to breaking news from Washington. Capitol Police ordered the evacuation of the U.S. Capitol. It is not clear why the Capitol was evacuated. There are reports the evacuation order was later called off. Ed Henry, our congressional correspondent, has the very latest -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kitty. The Capitol Police did send out an emergency message to all senators and their staff saying that the Capitol and all the Senate office buildings had to be evacuated. This e-mail message that has gone out to senators say the Capital Police are, quote, "tracking an unidentified incoming aircraft" end quote. That's in the e-mail.
But now, separately, C-SPAN 2, which covers the Senate, is saying that there has been an all clear. And that they were expecting the Senate to come back into session. And that live coverage of the Senate will resume shortly. We are checking that and trying tin independently confirm that.
But we have confirmed that the Capitol was evacuated, that there was concern about unidentified incoming aircraft. But as I mentioned, the Senate is expected to come back into session. So, hopefully, that means that there is an all-clear -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Ed Henry.
Let's go to Jeanne Meserve, who is also tracking this. Jeanne, what are you hearing?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, I'm told by a Homeland Security official that this evacuation was triggered by an airplane that came into the restricted air space over the U.S. Capitol. This, I'm told happened 10 or 15 minutes ago. The official with whom I was speaking did not know whether fighter jets had been scrambled to take the aircraft out of the air space, or whether the laser warning system that was recently installed was activated.
The official did say that the plane is now leaving the restricted zone and is being tracked. To put this in some perspective, this official says this is the third plane that ventured into the air space around Washington so far today. This is something that happens on a very frequent basis. Today is no exception. But today, this evening. It has triggered this evacuation of the Capitol.
PILGRIM: Jeanne, there was a remarkable incident just a few days ago. And it certainly did get everyone reexamining the procedures. Do you think that things have changed since that last incident?
MESERVE: Well, it's interesting, we had done some checking with NORAD just a couple of days ago to determine whether that laser warning system was having an impact and whether they were seeing fewer intrusions. The word we got from them is that the number was down. And they thought the reason was that there had been some action taken against the people in that aircraft a couple of weeks ago that ventured into the airspace.
However, since then I've spoken to a couple of other officials who have said, no, they have not discerned any drop at all. That this still is continuing to happen on a regular basis over Washington.
PILGRIM: The incident a few days ago, I'm thinking back, were rank amateurs who basically bungled into air space and their systems were not working so they could be contacted. This sort of thing with amateur flight people coming into the area, is this more the common thing or is it other sort of system failures?
MESERVE: You're exactly right, it is more the case of people fly infrequently, simply not being aware of the restrictions that have been in place for quite some time, and have been very well advertised in the aviation community.
There are exceptions, however. You will remember the famous incident during the Reagan funeral when the governor of Kentucky's plane was coming in towards the Capitol and there was a miscommunication amongst agencies. Some people were aware of exactly who that was, others were not. And it triggered the evacuation of the Capitol during the Reagan funeral.
So, it can be either sort of instance. But most of them tend to be people who are flying infrequently.
PILGRIM: Jeanne, the evacuation was called off now, but what is the general tone when this happens? Because as you point out, it's happened fairly frequently.
MESERVE: Well clearly, the Capitol Police are on a hair trigger. This is certainly not the first time that they have called for an evacuation. They feel that -- from conversations I've had with some members of the force, that they simply can't take any chances, and it's a matter of minutes before a plane would approach the Capitol once it's in that restricted air space.
Others have come to view this as a much more routine sort of incident. Of course, in every instance, they try to make radio contact. They send up planes. They send up jets. And they instigate now this new laser warning system.
So they take each incident with some seriousness. But I think that many officials have come to regard this as a daily occurrence. And even though it is to be dealt with, it is a daily thing and not the sort of thing that really gets their blood pressure up immediately when they hear there's been an intrusion.
PILGRIM: Well, certainly September 11 is the case in point, that nothing is taken as routine, any sort of warning. Let me ask you now, at the Capitol, how busy is it? It seems like it would be fairly slow at this point.
MESERVE: I am actually not anywhere near the Capitol at this point in time. It's impossible for me to get a fix from where I am on exactly what might be happening there this evening. So I'm afraid I can't answer that one for you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. You know, we should turn to our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry, who may be in a better position to give us that answer. Ed, are you with us?
HENRY: Yes, I am. I'm not in the Capitol, but I can tell you the Senate was in session at the time that they got this bulletin. And that's why there was a lot of special urgency on the Senate side. They were still in session. They evacuated the chamber as well as the all of the office buildings.
It's important to remember that there are well over 20,000 people who work with the senators, the House members as well, as staffers. It's almost a city within the city, that work around the Hill. And they all had to be evacuated out of their offices.
But again, the Senate is expected to come back into session very shortly. That should mean that there is an all-clear. That should that -- as Jeanne has so carefully pointing out -- that this happens fairly frequently now. And as she mentioned, the Capitol Police is on a hair trigger. They want to make sure that they err on the side of caution. And again, it looks like this was just a relatively minor incident, but it certainly caused a lot of concern on the Hill.
PILGRIM: Ed, how do they let the signal go out that everyone should leave? Is it a fairly orderly process? They certainly have enough practice.
HENRY: Yes. On 9/11 there was a lot of concern about the fact that there was not a basic bulletin system around the Capitol. That was one of the major problems. So they fixed that to some extent. And there are now some basic squawk boxes almost in each Senate office, for example, where they can let out some word about what's happening.
And secondly, after 9/11, all Senators and House members as well as many staffers got those blackberry devices in which now e-mails go out directly from the Capitol Police saying evacuate at once. And that's exactly how we found out about it. The staffers got emergency emergencies saying, evacuate immediately.
PILGRIM: Now, that's one that you don't ignore. Ed, how do they evacuate and how far away do they go? HENRY: Well, that's another issue of concern, because a lot of times they do not go very far from the buildings. But it's hard to put thousands of people in another place very quickly.
So what happens oftentimes is that you have thousands of these staffers and Senators standing pretty close to the Capitol itself. So there has been concern that if there was a major incident with an airplane, that just sitting outside the Capitol would not really help them, that they would still be in the line of fire, if you will.
That's something they have still not completely worked out. It's obviously very difficult, but the bottom line is, they want to get people out of the actual buildings, just to be on the safe side, Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much, Ed Henry with the very latest on that evacuation of the Capitol which has now been called off. And we'll bring you more details as we get them on it. And we'll be right back. Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: We've been bringing you the details of the U.S. Capitol evacuation which is now over. It was described as an air incursion. There's no indication that any other problems or any other buildings were evacuated. And there were no problems at the White House.
And again, the evacuation of the Capitol building has been called off. And this air incursion has been called off.
The Senate was evacuated. It was in session. Ed Henry just gave us the details of that. And our correspondents are telling us that the situation has become fairly routine. And that there are very good systems in place after a series of incidents in recent weeks in which amateurs have bungled into the restricted air space around the Capitol and been unable to be contacted.
And so the systems have been reexamined, are fully operative, and were very, very well functioning this evening as senators, who were in full session, were evacuated very quickly from the Capitol building.
Again, no other buildings were affected by this. At any point there was no problem with the White House or any other buildings in the Capitol. And the Senate is expected to resume very shortly.
We're looking at pictures now of the evacuation process.
Our correspondent Ed Henry points out that people do not evacuate very far from the buildings at this point, when the alarm is given. But they simply move some distance away from the building that is being evacuated. We'll bring you all the details as they come in to us. For the moment, we will just go to a quick break. And be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: As you've seen on this broadcast, there's been a good bit of coverage of identity theft. Well, a disturbing trend may be under way at some call centers in India. New allegations that personal information was sold for thousands of dollars. Satinder Bindra reports from New Delhi.
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SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the second time in just a few months, more allegations of data theft from call centers in India where dozens of American companies have been outsourcing work. A British tabloid "The Sun" just reported an Indian worker sold one of its undercover reporters the bank details of 1,000 Britains: addresses, pass words, phone numbers, credit card numbers and more. All for about $5,000. The worker employed by a web designing and marketing company has now been fired.
Talking to journalists, the firms managing director said, the allegedly stolen information could have come from anywhere, but not his company.
RAHUL DATT, INFINITY ESEARCH: We have never had any sort of classified information ever. We are not a call center.
BINDRA: Datt's company says their former employee continues to maintain his innocence. Industry insiders say they're perplexed how anyone could have smuggled out so much data from any information technology company.
KIRAN KARNIK, INDIAN SOFTWARE INDUSTRY: Anybody who is working there, they are not allowed to carry any recording thing: no pencil, no paper, no pen, no cell phone. You can't take a photograph of the screen. Nothing from which you can record data.
BINDRA: British authorities in Scotland Yard have joined Indian police in the investigation. This latest incident is providing further ammunition to those who argue countries with cheaper labor costs like India have been stealing jobs, and are a security risk.
In April this year, several employees of another Indian call center were arrested for allegedly obtaining passwords, and transferring $350,000 U.S. dollars from the accounts of four U.S. Citibank customers.
Industry groups in India say identity theft can occur anywhere, but they concede the country has to do more to deter the identity thieves.
PAVAN DUGGAL, CYBER CRIME LAWYER: India requires a distinct data protection law, for the purposes of giving enough legal boost to the outsourcing industry.
BINDRA (on camera): Along with better laws, many in India's call center industry also realize the need for tighter enforcement. Without that, they say the success of the information technology boom here may be in peril.
Satinder Bindra, CNN, New Delhi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, these two recent cases in India highlight just how many people in the United States are vulnerable to identity theft. Millions of Americans have their personal information, including financial and medical records, stored in their data bases of companies that operate call centers overseas.
And we will give you more on that.
We now return to Washington where we've been following a story, the evacuation of the U.S. Capitol, which has been called off. And people are allowed to return to the Capitol, but we turn now to Kyra Phillips who has spoken to NORAD and has more details on this air incident as it's being described -- Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Kitty. Actually, I talked to my sources within the military. And what they told me is this is basically the same situation that we saw last time with the pilot entering restricted air space.
According to my sources, this King Air (ph) twin engine, he was about seven to eight miles from Reagan Airport, going to -- going toward the White House. And he was squawking 1,200, which means he wasn't communicating. That's why jets had to be scrambled, once again from the same squadron that scrambled the time Cessna went into the restricted air space.
The Capitol Police made the decision to evacuate, because that's what they do. They don't -- NORAD doesn't make the decision, the military doesn't make that decision. It was the Capitol Police.
And once everybody communicated, they realized it wasn't a high- threat situation. So they brought the pilot in. And that's why everything has gone back to normal at this point.
PILGRIM: The inability to communicate exacerbates the situation, because the plane stays on track correct?
PHILLIPS: That's right. I mean, basically what has got to happen is the decision has to be made from the highest level within the military on what should be done about this aircraft. Is it a threat or not? And have we finally made communications with the pilot, and when that happens, and you're able to bring that aircraft down -- I mean, the Capitol police don't know what's happening minute by minute up there in the skies, and if the military is communicating with the pilot that's aboard that aircraft.
So the Capitol Police, they've got to do what they've got to do. And that is, OK, there's an aircraft heading -- or is close to the White House, we've got to evacuate.
But then once the plane is brought off that target of heading toward someplace like the White House, then the Capitol police can resume business as usual.
PILGRIM: Kyra, we've just heard that the plane has landed at Winchester Regional Airport in Virginia. They have managed to bring this plane in. And that's a fairly rapid operation, isn't it?
PHILLIPS: Yes. It's pretty incredible how fast it works. I mean, within seconds, Kitty, they get information on the aircraft and who is piloting that aircraft. And of course, there's communication with the pilots that are -- have been scrambled and are in those jets making contact with whomever is in that cockpit.
So, yes, it has landed. And as you can imagine, that individual that was piloting that aircraft is under some pretty intense questioning right now.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks.
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