Return to Transcripts main page

Lou Dobbs Tonight

Europe Visit; Climate Battle; Missing in Action; California Considers State-Run Border Control; Will CAFTA Hurt or Help U.S.?; U.N. Says Bird Flu Could Wreak Havoc in U.S.; Comet May Reveal Solar System Secrets

Aired July 05, 2005 - 18:00   ET


LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Tonight, missing in action. U.S. troops step up their search for a Navy SEAL in Afghanistan just one week after a commando disappeared.
China's energy assault. Beijing tells our Congress to stop interfering in China's bid for one of our biggest energy companies.

And a dramatic new warning about the bird flu. One of this country's top experts on infectious diseases will join us tonight.

Our top story tonight is the president's visit to Europe. President Bush is visiting Denmark, which is one of this country's closest allies on the global war on terror. The president received a warm welcome from Danish leaders in Copenhagen, but President Bush is likely to face tough talk with other leaders at the G8 summit in Scotland tomorrow.

Suzanne Malveaux reports from Copenhagen -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, we'll get to that in a minute. But we want to tell you, before he even stepped off of Air Force One, President Bush, we are told, spent a couple of hours on the plane going over briefings of at least a half-dozen potential Supreme Court candidates. The president, we are told, says the whole process, he believes, will take a couple of weeks before he's got a name to put out there.

We're also told as well the president not very happy with some of the attacks against one potential nominee, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Some conservatives saying that he is just too moderate.

President Bush today saying that they need to tone down that heated rhetoric. Well, there was no heated rhetoric here today, of course, in Denmark. President Bush greeted very warmly by Queen Margaret II, as well as Prince Henri. The president, the first lady and their daughter Jenna all will be staying overnight at their Frederiksborg Palace. That is the queen's favorite summer residence.

All of this, of course, really is to pay a courtesy call to Denmark to thank them for being what the State Department says is an excellent ally. As you know, Denmark has about 500 troops in Iraq, peacekeeping missions in Afghanistan, Kosovo, as well as the Balkans. And it was one of the first, the president likes to say, is part of the coalition of the willing when it comes to the U.S. invasion in Iraq.

Having said that, however, the president is not going to venture too far from the palace. We are told, of course, demonstrations planned outside there tonight, as well as outside the U.S. embassy. Many Danish people very upset with the Iraq war, as well as U.S. treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

And all of this, Kitty, of course, comes before the real big event. That is when the president goes to Scotland for the G8 summit. That is where he will be dealing with the priorities there. That is, increased aid to Africa, as well as global climate change -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: It certainly is a gorgeous photo-op tonight, though. Thanks very much. Suzanne Malveaux.

Well, the White House today declared President Bush has not shifted his position on climate change. Global warming is likely to be a major issue at the G8 summit. The United States is the only G8 country that has not ratified the Kyoto agreement on cutting greenhouse gases.

Walter Rodgers reports.


WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Polar ice caps retreating at an alarming rate. Oceans heating up, expanding, threatening coastal cities. More than a few species, even humans, may be threatened by climate change. Blame itself, however, is flourishing.

PEARCE: The United States is the biggest climate criminal, if you like. And the White House and Bush administration is still refusing to acknowledge that climate change is really happening.

RODGERS: Whoa. Read his lips.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In terms of climate change, I've always said it's a serious long-term issue that needs to be dealt with.

RODGERS: How it's dealt with is the rub. The agreement known as the Kyoto protocol went into effect in February, but the Bush administration has steadfastly refused to sign on. Yet, the U.S. does spend the most money researching ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. By contrast, Europe wants to impose Kyoto targets to reduce those emissions in the hope of slowing global warming.

JULIAN MORRIS, INTERNATIONAL POLICY NETWORK: There was a lot of pressure from environmentalists to sign up to something. And so the Kyoto protocol was that something. Kyoto is a very costly agreement and it has very few benefits. So in that sense, it was absolutely the right move on the part of the United States not to ratify.

RODGERS: With numbers of cars on roads increasing, demands for energy soaring across the globe, greenhouse gas emissions, most notably carbon dioxide, are rising above the Kyoto targets almost everywhere, a glaring failing acknowledged even by environmentalists.

PEARCE: There should be no country in the world who right at this stage is congratulating themselves on their emissions control. I think we have a lot of work to do.

RODGERS: Developing countries China, India, Brazil, all big polluters, were given a free pass at Kyoto, so why the America bashing among global environmentalists?

MORRIS: It's not politically correct to try and impose restrictions on poorer countries, but on the richest country in the world, well, it's got to be the most evil, surely.

RODGERS: Deep, meaningful cuts in greenhouse gas emissions would still be so economically disastrous, no politician anywhere is advocating that just yet. So, instead, they continue to campaign for Kyoto, arguably cleansing their consciences without doing that much to clean up the planet's air.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.


PILGRIM: Well, as Walter Rodgers reported, China is exempt from the Kyoto agreement. But China is the world's second biggest producer of greenhouse gases after this country.

Chinese emissions are likely to increase dramatically by 2025 as China's economy continues to grow at a rapid pace. Now, those increases in Chinese emissions will probably be much bigger than any cuts in greenhouse gases from other industrialized countries.

Surprising criticism of the Bush administration today from the Vatican. One of Pope Benedict's top advisers is urging the U.S. to give more aid to Africa because of "its sad history of slavery." Also because of its great wealth. Cardinal Renato Martino heaped praise on British Prime Minister Blair for his role in promoting African debt relief.

In Iraq today, an American soldier was killed by a roadside bomb. Two other soldiers were wounded. The bomb exploded in Diyala province, and the military did not give out any other details. And 1,745 American troops have died in Iraq since the war began.

Radical Islamist terrorists in Iraq today stepped up their campaign against diplomats. Gunmen ambushed two senior diplomats from Islamic countries. Now these ambushes follow the kidnapping of Egypt's top diplomat in Iraq.

Aneesh Raman reports from Baghdad.


ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Iraq on Tuesday, diplomats again the target, specifically diplomats from Muslim countries. First, this morning, at around 7:00 a.m. local, Bahrain charge d'affairs shot at by gunmen in a pickup truck as he was driving in western Baghdad.

His aides say he was only slightly injured, shot in the hand. They also say that this appears to be an apparent kidnapping, not an apparent assassination attempt. Bahraini officials saying that he will likely be brought home, and their mission here temporarily closed.

Later in the day, in the afternoon, Pakistan's top envoy to Iraq, Mohammed Khan (ph), he was shot at while traveling in a three-car convoy. His aides say he was not injured whatsoever. His bodyguards returned fire.

Pakistan now likely to move him out of the country. Reports also that they may close their mission here as well.

Now, this all comes just a few days after Egypt's top envoy on the cusp of becoming the first Arab ambassador to Iraq. Ihab Sherif was kidnapped while driving near his home. There have been no claims of responsibility, no signs of how he is at the moment. But today, Iraq's prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, his spokesman hit home the point the situation on the ground remains so volatile and that diplomats, especially these high-level diplomats, need to take security into their mindset.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): With respect to the abduction of the Egyptian ambassador, it was quite odd to see the ambassador leaving his house with no protection. Everyone in Iraq knows that no senior official should go out without sufficient protection.

RAMAN: Now, the implications of these recent events are quite serious in the diplomatic realm. Iraq has been begging its Arab neighbors to reestablish diplomatic ties to send ambassadors.

You will recall at the end of June U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on the Arab neighbors of Iraq to do just that. Days later, Egypt became the first country to respond to that call. Now the only Arab ambassador in Iraq is in kidnappers' hands.

For many of the Arab countries, though, it is not simply about supporting Iraq. It is about essentially the situation on the ground, which remains incredibly dangerous. And now, with a message from insurgents, the stakes clearly higher.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, Baghdad.


PILGRIM: American troops in Afghanistan are still tonight searching for a missing Navy SEAL. The commando lost contact with his unit while on a reconnaissance mission one week ago.

Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon and has the very latest on the search -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That search now is in day seven as the U.S. military has a substantial number of people looking for one Navy SEAL, the only one still unaccounted for from a four-man team that got in trouble a week ago today. That's when a U.S. Helicopter sent in to rescue and extract the SEAL team, was hit by an RPG and crashed.

Since then, the bodies of two SEALs have been found on the ground. They still have not been identified. And one SEAL was rescued over the weekend.

The Pentagon continues to insist that there's nothing it can say at this point that would be helpful to what's going on the ground.


LAWRENCE DI RITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: When we've got more to say, we'll say it. I really don't have anything for you.

There are people who are right now conducting an operation. And their lives are at risk, and there's just nothing -- and I think you guys all understand that there's nothing we can do to help the situation.

Thank you.


MCINTYRE: Again, operations still under way, indicating that there is still at least some hope that that last SEAL member will be found in Afghanistan. But again, they're not saying much.

With 18 dead now -- that's 16 on the helicopter, plus the two found dead on the ground -- this has turned out to be the deadliest special operations mission since the 1993 firefight in Mogadishu, Somalia. That claimed the lives of 19 soldiers. Many of them Special Forces as well -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: It is tragic. Thanks very much. Jamie McIntyre.

Still ahead, a key press freedom case reaches its climax. Two reporters are facing jail time. Your right to know hangs in the balance.

Plus, the battle lines are being drawn in Washington. Millions of dollars flowing into war chests in the fight over the next Supreme Court nominee. We'll have a special report.

And outrage in Aruba as two suspects in the Natalee Holloway case go free. Holloway's mother makes an impassioned plea as the search for her daughter drags on.


PILGRIM: Prosecutors are gearing up for a showdown in federal court tomorrow with journalist Matt Cooper and Judith Miller. Now, the two reporters refused to give up their sources in an important press freedom case involving your right to know. Both refused to say who in Washington leaked the name of CIA agent Valerie Plame. Prosecutors say both should be thrown in jail if they don't cooperate.

Bob Franken reports.


BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Matt Cooper's boss at "TIME" magazine had already turned over the documents, including his notes and e-mails, over his objections. But the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, insists in papers filed with the court, that's not enough, Cooper must also testify or face jail.

As for Judith Miller, her employer, "The New York Times," has not budged, and neither has she. And she, too, faces the prospect of incarceration after the court hearing.

Fitzgerald also opposed requests from the reporters for the judge to impose house arrest if he does sentence them instead of prison. All of this because somebody blew Valerie Plame's cover, which might be illegal.

Plame, we now know, was an undercover CIA operative. She's also the wife of Joe Wilson. Wilson was the former diplomat who was charging the administration had put out misleading information about Iraq's nuclear efforts.

Columnist Robert Novak reported the information, citing administration sources. Miller did not. Cooper wrote about it in "TIME" after the Novak column appeared. "TIME," by the way, is owned by Time Warner, which also owns CNN.

Fitzgerald was named a special investigator to find out who leaked the information and whether it was illegal. The records "TIME" magazine turned over showed that Cooper spoke in that critical week of July 2003 to Karl Rove, now the White House deputy chief of staff. Rove's lawyer insists his client did not give out any confidential information on Valerie Plame. The attorney goes on to say he has been assured that Rove is not a suspect.


FRANKEN: Whatever happens to Cooper and Miller, many in the media worry that all reporters will have, as a result of this case, a much more difficult time getting information from anonymous sources whose anonymity, Kitty, they might not be able to promise.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bob Franken.

Well, Matt Cooper and Judith Miller both face up to 120 days in jail for not cooperating with prosecutors. Now, both reporters have requested house arrest when and if they are sentenced.

And that does bring us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you think that journalists should be jailed for not revealing their confidential sources, yes or no? Cast your vote at and we'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast. And now to the other guessing game in Washington over who President Bush will nominate to the Supreme Court. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor announced her retirement last week. President Bush has said he will not name a replacement until later this week. That's at the earliest.

However, activists on both ends of the political spectrum are ready to spend big money to influence the Supreme Court battle that lies ahead.

Bill Schneider reports.


WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): It looks like a Supreme Court nomination is good for business, the political fundraising business, that is. President Bush hasn't even chosen a nominee yet, but groups on the left and right are already making urgent appeals.

NARAL Pro-Choice America's Web site warns: "Don't let his choice end yours, help fund the fight." Progress for America's Web site promises an $18 million campaign to defend President Bush's Supreme Court nominee.

Despite President Bush's plea, in an interview with USA Today where he said: "I would hope that the groups involved in this process, the special interest groups, will help tone down the heated rhetoric." Fat chance.

Heated rhetoric raises big money. Organizations are already running ads. This cable TV ad by MoveOn PAC accuses President Bush of playing politics with people's personal rights in the Terri Schiavo case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the last place the federal government needed to be, a family crisis affecting the most personal rights of all.

SCHNEIDER: A cable ad from Progress for America preemptively attacks Democrats for attacks that haven't taken place on a nominee who hasn't been chosen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats will attack anyone the president nominates. But a Supreme Court nominee deserves real consideration instead of instant attacks.

SCHNEIDER: The organization even posted on the Internet a hypothetical Democratic attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president nominated George Washington for the Supreme Court. Democrats immediately attacked Washington for his environmental record of chopping down cherry trees.

SCHNEIDER: The Washington Post estimates that total spending could approach $100 million, like a presidential campaign, but one only 100 voters, senators, who will vote whether or not to confirm President Bush's nominee. You get to the senators by stirring up their constituents, and that takes money.


SCHNEIDER: The biggest targets, those are senators who are running for reelection in 2006 who are part of the Gang of 14. Now, you'll remember, those are the 14 senators who made a deal.

The deal was the Democrats would not filibuster court nominees except in exceptional or extraordinary circumstances, and the Republicans agreed not to vote for the nuclear option that would ban the filibuster for court appointments. Those promises could turn out to be empty -- could be real threats, real threats, if President Bush nominates someone very controversial -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: It might get very interesting. Thanks very much. Bill Schneider.


PILGRIM: Well, our quote of the day comes from French President Jacques Chirac. He blasted France's key rival for the 2012 Olympic games, which is Britain. Now, Paris and London are believed to be the top contenders for the host city, which the International Olympic Committee will announce tomorrow.

Well, a French newspaper reported that Chirac, referring to Britain, said, "The only thing they have ever done for European agriculture is mad cow disease." And Chirac went on to say that only Finland has worse food than Britain.

Well, one of Britain's best-selling newspapers, "The Sun," blasted back. And its headline today read simply, "Don't talk crepe, Jacques."

Coming up, a record number of tropical storms already on the radar for the Gulf of Mexico this season, and we'll have the latest on where Cindy and Dennis might hit.

And then one state's response to the federal government's failure to enforce our border. Does California need its own border patrol?

Stay with us.


PILGRIM: Critics say China may finally have gone too far in defending its hostile bid for oil giant Unocal. Now, Beijing warning our lawmakers on Independence Day to butt out and let market forces decide the fate of the deal.

Bill Tucker reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Chinese are not reacting well to Congress taking an interest in its proposed takeover of Unocal. On July 4th, the Chinese foreign ministry released this written statement: "We demand that the U.S. Congress correct its mistaken ways of politicizing economic and trade issues and stop interfering in the normal commercial exchanges between enterprises of the two countries."

What the Chinese do not appear to understand is that under the U.S. Constitution, Congress is granted the power to regulate trade with foreign nations. So Congress has the authority, and...

PETER MORICI, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: I don't think there's a very good chance of Congress backing down because of a blast from the Chinese. I think they'll probably stiffen in their resolve to look more carefully at this issue and a number of other issues that have been on Congress' plate in the last six months.

TUCKER: Chief among those issues is a record $162 billion trade deficit with China and what to do about it. These latest comments by the Chinese have some wondering where or if Congress and the Bush administration will draw the line at the Chinese meddling in American policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's as if the Chinese government were telling us to sink our Navy to make the takeover of Taiwan peaceful. If it's going to tell the Congress to get out of foreign commerce, it might as well tell the Pentagon to dry-dock its Navy so that it has free passage to Taiwan.

TUCKER: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is scheduled to visit China this weekend for discussions on North Korea.


TUCKER: Next week, Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez is scheduled to go to China to talk about textile exports to the United States. The Unocal takeover bid is likely to make everyone's list, giving the administration an opportunity to make its policy on this bid clear, which so far it hasn't done. It's steadfastly stepped aside and out of the way.

PILGRIM: But Congress is really picking up some steam, isn't it?

TUCKER: They are, and that's why the Chinese are angry, because the House passed a resolution and said they want the administration to come in and block it. And there's a lot of frustration within Congress itself that the administration has not made clear that it is going to stand in the way and block this deal.

PILGRIM: Well, maybe it will become more clear with the administration with these high-level visits to China next week.

TUCKER: Well, they'll have the opportunity, Kitty. That's what will be interesting to see, if something will come out of that.

PILGRIM: If they take.


PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker.

Coming up, all eyes on Cindy and Dennis in the Gulf of Mexico. The very latest on the tropical storms threatening our shores.

Plus, tears of frustration in Aruba. The mother of Natalee Holloway wondering why two main suspects in her daughter's case are now free men.

And California says it's time to fix its broken border itself. A special report on the state's new move to ease its immigration crisis.

PILGRIM: Tropical Storm Cindy gaining strength as it heads towards the Gulf Coast.


PILGRIM: Well, the man suspected of kidnapping a brother and sister in Idaho and holding them for weeks appeared in court for the first time today. Joseph Edward Duncan, he's a convicted sex offender accused of kidnapping 8-year-old Shasta Groene and her brother, 9- year-old Dylan. He appeared on both kidnapping and outstanding warrant charges today.

Shasta was found unharmed over the weekend in a restaurant with Duncan. Dylan is still missing. Police believe he is probably dead. Officials are testing human remains found in Montana and they say it could be Dylan's body.

Also today, officials released a surveillance tape showing Joseph Edward Duncan and Shasta pulling up to a convenience store in a sport utility vehicle, entering store. They buy some items and leave. Shasta makes no attempt to ask for help in that video.

In Aruba today, a tearful plea from the mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway. Now, she's blasting a judge for releasing two suspects held in her daughter's still unresolved case. The judge says there's not enough evidence to hold Deepak and Satish Kalpoe any longer. But Holloway's mother says she fears the two brothers will now flee Aruba.


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE'S MOTHER: These criminals are not only allowed to walk freely among the tourists and citizens of Aruba, but there are no limits where they may choose to travel. I am asking all mothers and fathers in all nations to hear my plea. I implore you, do not allow these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers, to enter your country until this case is solved.


PILGRIM: There's now only one suspect still in custody in the Holloway case. That's 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot. And he's been ordered held for another 60 days.

Natalee Holloway disappeared more than a month ago while on vacation in Aruba. The Kalpoe brothers say they dropped Holloway off at a beach with Van Der Sloot, and that was on the night of her disappearance. Earlier today, three Dutch F-16s equipped with lasers and special cameras made a test flight over Aruba, and they'll join in the search for Natalee Holloway tomorrow.

Well, turning now to the immigration crisis in this country, California lawmakers are debating two new plans to combat that state's swelling illegal alien population. One of them would create the first-ever state-run border patrol.

Casey Wian reports.


CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California is home to more illegal aliens than any other state, nearly three million. And they cost taxpayers here an estimated $10 billion a year.

Because the federal government has been slow to address the problem, some California lawmakers say it's time the state acts on its own. One proposal, a state constitutional amendment that would create the state's own border patrol, called the California Border Police.

Republican assemblyman Ray Haynes is the amendment sponsor.

RAY HAYNES, CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLYMAN: California bears a disproportionate amount of the cost of illegal immigration. This should be one of the most important issues to California. Our budget deficit today is, by and large, created by covering services for illegal immigrants.

WIAN: Haynes says for about five percent of what the state spends on illegal aliens, the California Border Police could arrest and detain enough illegal aliens to save the state about $5 billion a year.

Another effort is modeled after Arizona's Proposition 200. It would deny all state services to illegal aliens, except for kindergarten through 12th graded indication and emergency medical care, which are mandated by federal law. And it would require proof of citizenship for registering to vote or casting a ballot.

MARK WYLAND, CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLYMAN: It's something that is obviously a very contentious issue and is a problem, I think, of such a magnitude that we cannot make this state work well unless we address this problem.

And among Latinos, for the first time, in 2003 and 2004, their actual earnings are declining. This is probably the result of this uncontrolled illegal immigration.

WIAN: Still, both proposals failed to advance beyond a state assembly committee. California's legislature is controlled by Democrats, and several civil rights and minority groups spoke against the measures.

VIVEK MALHOTRA, ACLU: We oppose any efforts to write discrimination into our constitution.

WIAN: But supporters of the efforts to crack down on illegal aliens say a majority of voters would approve of benefit cuts and a state border police. So it will soon begin gathering signatures for a ballot initiative to bypass the state legislature.


WIAN: The Border Police Amendment would also declare that the influx of illegal immigrations into California constitutes a state of emergency -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Casey Wian.

Well, the battle over CAFTA is headed to the House. The Senate passed a so-called free trade agreement last week, and my guests tonight have two very different views on the issue.

Now from Houston, Texas, Congressman Kevin Brady supports CAFTA. He claims it will help reduce our trade deficit and bring jobs to the United States.

And from Cleveland, Ohio, Congressman Sherrod Brown is leading the bipartisan fight against CAFTA. And he believes the agreement will do nothing to rectify the problems caused by NAFTA.

So, gentlemen, thanks for joining us. And let's get into it a bit. And I guess the biggest issue is the trade deficit. It's exploded from $38 billion to $618 billion in the last 12 years. Let's just throw it out there. Will CAFTA help address this? Let's start with Congressman Brown.

REP. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: CAFTA's more of the same. Every time there's a new trade agreement, the president promises three things. Promises more jobs for Americans, promises more manufacturing exports, going from the United States to other countries, and promises a higher standard of living in the developing world.

Each time the promises fall flat on their face. That's why the trade deficit went from $38 billion only a dozen years ago to $618 billion today. And CAFTA's more of the same.

PILGRIM: Congressman Brady, your answer to that?

REP. KEVIN BRADY (R), TEXAS: Well, the stronger the American economy is, the larger our trade deficit is. The truth of the matter is that CAFTA is nothing like our past trade agreements, especially NAFTA.

The huge difference is that Central America has been able to sell almost all its products into the U.S. for now almost 20 years. Now it's our turn to sell into that market. And for our farmers, who will sell about $1.5 billion more of ag products, for manufacturers, who will sell another billion dollars, for our tech community, for a lot of small businesses and workers, now's our turn. And it will improve our trade deficit.

PILGRIM: You know, critics of CAFTA would probably be saying, let's hope it's not like NAFTA. We've lost a million jobs in this country since the inception of NAFTA. What do you think on the job front that we will be seeing, Congressman Brown?

BROWN: Well, I think we're going to see more of the same. In the last -- since the Trade Promotion Authority, the last big trade issue that passed Congress in the middle of the night by literally one vote, we have lost millions of manufacturing jobs, literally. In my state of Ohio, we've lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs.

And when I hear Kevin saw about the Nicaraguans and the Guatemalans buying American products, the average age in Nicaragua is $2,300 a year. In Honduras, in Guatemala it's about $3,000 a year. They're not going to -- they can't afford to buy American cars. They can't afford to buy prime beef from Nebraska. They can't afford to buy software from Seattle.

They are -- these trade agreements are job outsourcing agreements, where big American companies will move their operations to Central America and outsource our jobs and sell back into the American market at higher profits, but low wages for the workers, undercutting American -- undercutting the market and costing American manufacturing jobs, as every trade agreement's done for the last dozen years.

PILGRIM: Your response, sir?

BRADY: Yes, wouldn't that be great if -- that would be a great argument 20 years ago when we opened up America to Central American producers. Now it's our turn, and what it means is that our beef, our cotton, our ag products, our technology companies, our insurance workers, our manufacturers who have lost a lot of jobs, now have a chance, finally, to sell into Central America.

And I'll tell you what, they are our tenth largest customer and they're growing. I don't know of a successful business in America that has succeeded by selling only to one or two large customers and ignoring the rest. And I don't think it makes good economic sense to scorn our tenth largest trading partner when they have a chance to become even a bigger trading partner with America.

PILGRIM: Let's...

BROWN: I know...

PILGRIM: Let's -- let's take a look at -- hang on one second. Let me just throw a number in here to add to this discussion. The combined economic output of these Central American countries is $62 billion. That's the equivalent of Columbus, Ohio. How much can this really impact the U.S. economy?

BRADY: Well -- well, it is a market that's larger than Australia, which we have a free trade agreement, larger than Chile, larger than Singapore. Again, they may be small by American standards, but they're large by the world's standards and growing.

And it would be foolish to push away 44 million new customers, potentially, for American goods, at a time when a lot of the world has already closed their markets to us. We need these new customers, especially if we're going to win the textile war against China.

BROWN: We in no way are either belittling the Central American countries or pushing them away.

BRADY: Sir, I have to disagree with you. You're calling them too backward, too small, too slow to deal with us, but in fact they've been one of our best and truest trading partners and have true potential just in our backyard. Why would we turn that down?

BROWN: I don't -- it's not a question of turning it down. It's a question of a different Central American Free Trade Agreement. Not this CAFTA, but one that will lift up living standards, one that protects workers as much as it protects the drug industry, one that protects the environment and food safety as much as it protects Hollywood films. That's what this trade agreement's about.

We'd like to see standards lifted up in the Dominican Republic and the five Central American countries, so they, in fact, can, over time, buy cars made in Ohio, or steel, or prime beef or textiles or apparel or any of the goods that we want to sell in Central America.

BRADY: Sure. And you know, actually, that is shared -- one of the areas you and I agree completely on.

The question is, what's the best strategy? Is the best strategy to kick them back down the ladder to say, "No, you can't do business with us, because you're too small and you're too poor"?

Or is it reaching our hand out, continuing to do business with them, insisting on stronger labor standards and enforcement in helping pull them up the economic ladder?

The question isn't, are we going to get the high labor standards, but how? And I think the strategy of Central America is the right one.

PILGRIM: Gentlemen, this fight is just -- is just warming up. And we do thank you very much for putting your input into this.

BROWN: Thank you.

PILGRIM: It will be a very tough debate on Capitol Hill.


PILGRIM: Congressman Kevin Brady and Congressman Sherrod Brown. Thank you, sir.

BRADY: Thank you.

PILGRIM: Up next, the Bush administration says abstinence only education, the only way to prevent teen pregnancy. But now a leading pediatricians' group says that approach is harming teens.

Plus, new evidence that the bird flu pandemic will be difficult to wipe out and the United States could be a prime target.


PILGRIM: Tonight a leading group of pediatricians revised its recommendations for teenage sex education. The American Academy of Pediatrics says teenagers need to access birth control and emergency contraception.

According to the academy, the abstinence only approach now advocated by the Bush administration is not adequate to address the problems of teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

Each year more than 800,000 teenage women become pregnant. About 80 percent of those pregnancies are unintended. And another nine million teenagers and young adults acquire a sexually transmitted disease each year.

Currently, no federally funded sex ed program can advocate contraceptive use.

Let's turn to another major health issue. There's a new warning tonight about bird flu. It's spreading across Asia. United Nations health officials now say it could take 10 years to eradicate the disease, and the bird flu has killed more than 50 people across Asia.

Health officials warn a global pandemic could kill millions of people in the United States.

Joining me now for more on the bird flu is the director of the National Institute of Algae and Infectious Diseases. Dr. Anthony Fauci joins us from Washington.

And thanks for being with us tonight, Dr. Fauci.


PILGRIM: You know, this grim new news from the United Nations, the officials saying we're perhaps at a tipping point. And when you look at the number of human cases, it's really picked up. In 2004, we had 44. But for the first six months of 2005, we have 64.

These seem like low numbers, but we're at the early stages of this disease, are we not?

FAUCI: Yes. Well, one of the concerns that we've been focusing on for some time now is whether this virus as it evolves can gain the ability of being more efficient in spreading from chickens to humans, so that more humans would be infected.

But even more importantly, if it gains the capability of spreading efficiently from human to human, which is the next step towards developing a widespread problem, i.e., a pandemic, that could be a global issue. So that's why we're watching it very closely.

The meeting that took place in Koala Lumpur over the Fourth of July weekend was an important meeting, because they recognized something that we've all been talking about, that this is not going to go away by itself.

You have to be very proactive in trying to get countries together to be very transparent about reporting cases of outbreaks among the birds, to have -- heighten their surveillance, and to talk to each other, to exchange information, and also, to think in terms of vaccination of the chickens. And that's going to take years.

So we can't just sit back and say, "Well, if we wait this out, it's going to go away by itself." It's just not going to. And I think they recognized that at that WHO sponsored meeting.

PILGRIM: You know, they talk about transparency, but in fact, many countries misrepresent, and most particularly China, in their recent reporting of the migratory bird outbreak that they have currently going on there. They've really grossly misunderreported (sic) that outbreak. What can you do to deal with countries that do not tell the truth?

FAUCI: Well, I think you can't, obviously, force them to. But hopefully, now that a couple of instances of countries that were not transparent have come out, that the actual embarrassment of not being forthcoming about it might now stimulate other countries to realize that being secretive about it is ultimately going to come back and bite them. Not only from the standpoint of public relations, but also from the standpoint of the disease in their own country.

So it's harmful to all of us, globally, when countries are not forthcoming. But it's going to be particularly pressured on those who are not. And in fact, we know from experience that some companies -- some countries have not been forthcoming. And that's really a problem.

PILGRIM: What can the United States do? Is it really incumbent on the United States to solve this, or is this something we have to let the Asian countries take care of?

FAUCI: We can participate. We can't do it alone. As well- intentioned as we are, we're -- as we mentioned on the show just a couple of weeks ago, we have a vaccination trial that's going. We're putting together stockpiling of a drug. We have surveillance, our own surveillances in collaboration with the WHO and Asian countries.

But we cannot be the lone ranger on this. We have to have cooperation and collaboration from all the countries, particularly the Asian countries. And some of them are really being quite cooperative and collaborative with us. But we've got to make sure that this is consistent and it occurs year after year as the meeting that took place in Koala Lumpur emphasized just a couple of days ago.

PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much for giving us your insight on this, Dr. Anthony Fauci. FAUCI: You're welcome.

PILGRIM: Thank you.

FAUCI: You're welcome.

PILGRIM: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. And the question is, do you think that journalists should be jailed for not revealing their confidential sources? Yes or no. Cast your vote at We're going to bring you the results in just a few minutes.

Well, on the Fourth of July, one Bellevue, Washington, man saw some fireworks he wasn't expecting. Derrick Walker was pumping gas into his Ferrari when it burst into flames. You can see the fire envelope him.

Walker jumped backwards. He did escape. The station owner ran over with a fire extinguisher and pulled the burning gas nozzle out and Walker, amazingly, escaped unharmed.


DERRICK WALKER, SURVIVED GAS EXPLOSION: I was checking myself out thinking, "I've got to be on fire," but I wasn't. I can replace a car, you know. That's no big deal. I mean, it is a big deal. It's going to hurt a little bit. But I'm fine, you know. That's the big deal for me.


PILGRIM: Seems like a big deal. Firefighters were able to put out the fire but not before the rare classic car was destroyed, I'm sorry to tell you. Fire officials say gas station explosions like this are rare, but they can be sparked by static electricity or cell phones igniting the gasoline vapors.

Well, coming up at the top of the hour, here's Rudi Bakhtiar. Joins us now with a preview -- Rudy.

RUDY BAKHTIAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Kitty, how are you?

Here's what we've got coming up. New details in the case of that missing Alabama teen in Aruba, Natalee Holloway. The two brothers who have been in jail for more than two weeks are now free. Natalee's mother outraged at their release and is convinced that the brothers will now try and flee the country.

Meanwhile, that judge's son remains behind bars and is considered a suspect, the lead suspect in that case. We're going to go live to Aruba for the latest on that.

Back to you for now, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Rudi. Coming up, Deep Impact. In the early hours of the morning on Independence Day, NASA staged a spectacular high-speed collision in space. My guest, up next, is a leading astrophysicist, and he'll explain why NASA launched this rare mission, and the mysteries it might unlock.


PILGRIM: NASA says that its Deep Impact mission was truly a smashing success, and NASA hopes crashing the Deep Impact probe into a comet will reveal secrets about the beginning of life.

Well, the impacter was vaporized when it slammed into the comet. Twenty-three thousand miles an hour it hit early yesterday. That's the speed it would take to fly from New York to Los Angles in six minutes. That's pretty fast.

Now, for more on the importance of this historic collision, I'm joined by Charles Liu, who is an astrophysicist at the American Museum of Natural History.

And it's always a pleasure to see you, Charles.


PILGRIM: And you can sort this stuff out for us. I mean, it does seem like a bunch of scientists got together and said, "Wouldn't it be fun if we just..."

LIEU: That's kind of what it is.

PILGRIM: Explain what happened here.

LIU: Well, comets are really interesting, because they have material locked up from the beginning of the Solar System. This is water, ice, and dirt that's been around for 4 1/2 billion years, almost untouched.

And so the idea was to take something about the size of this table, and move it into the path of an oncoming comet that's coming at 23,000 miles an hour and let them hit.

PILGRIM: Yes. Is it hard to actually coordinate? I'm sure it's impossibly hard, yes.

LIU: It's challenging. The projectile that was sent by the Deep Impact spacecraft is actually a smart projectile, as it was called. It had its own guidance system, and it made three small maneuvers, with small rockets to make sure it was right in the path when it came.

And right now, we're seeing as it hit. We're seeing the texture and the surface of the comet, and three seconds before it hit that's what it looked like to that smart projectile as it wound up in the surface. And then it sprayed up a huge amount of the material. It dug a hole. We're not exactly sure yet, but I think it's something around the size of a football feel and maybe six or seven stories deep. The ice sprayed out into space. And the idea is now we're going to see what was inside there, get some insights into the early Solar System.

PILGRIM: It's like a core sample, isn't it?

LIU: Very much so.


LIU: Philosophically speaking, here on Earth, when we want to know what's inside a rock, we take a hammer and give it a whack. This, thanks to the Deep Impact team, is humanity's way of giving a comet a whack.

PILGRIM: What -- what, besides this exact study, what's the broader perspective on this whole thing?

LIU: There are two things involved. One, aside from studying the specifics of a comet, we sometimes are concerned that maybe years from now, a comet will actually come and hit the Earth, causing great damage. It's likely, for example, that the comet killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

By creating another impact, this time in a controlled circumstance, millions of miles away, we may be able to learn more about how to protect Earth itself if a comet is to come our way. What should we do to maybe deflect it or to damage it, to move it out of harm's way?

PILGRIM: So we know how solid it is and all that sort of stuff?

LIU: The structure.

PILGRIM: When will we get that data?

LIU: It's going to take weeks and months. The first pictures are spectacular. We know that it was a smashing success, and the idea now is over the next days and weeks and months, maybe even years, we'll analyze it very carefully.

There are a great number of scientific data and instruments. Well, there are many instruments with a lot of detailed equipment. And hopefully that information will come down and we'll learn something that we've never learned before in the past.

PILGRIM: You always make it so fascinating. Thanks very much for being here, Doctor.

LIU: Always a pleasure. Thanks so much.

PILGRIM: Well, still ahead, NASA says Deep Impact was a success, but one Russian astrologer doesn't agree. Why she's suing NASA, when we return. Plus, the result of tonight's poll and a look at what's ahead tomorrow. Stay with us.


PILGRIM: NASA's Deep Impact mission was deemed a success, but one Russian astrologer doesn't agree. She says it ruined the natural balance of forces in the universe, and now she wants NASA to pay for the suffering she claims she endured throughout the mission.

Ryan Chilcote reports from Moscow.


RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside a Moscow courthouse, astrologist Marina Bai warns Deep Impact's impact will be felt by the entire universe and all of humankind. She's suing NASA for messing with Mother Nature.

"It was wrong to unilaterally decide some comet is extra," she says, "and take a look at what's inside it just to satisfy their curiosity."

Bai is a big fan of eastern art and philosophy. Her world view goes like this: Nature controls everything, and anything that alters nature alters history, too.

"NASA is changing humankind's path," she says. "We don't know in what direction, whether it's opened the gates towards heaven or hell."

Comets have been linked to human events throughout history. By some accounts, the star of Bethlehem was a comet.

When Bai first filed suit, she wanted to stop Deep Impact from happening. Now that it has, she wants to make sure nothing like it ever happens again.

She also wants compensation: $311 million of it, the amount she estimates the project cost NASA. She says she has endured headaches, anger and a feeling of loss.

But Bai may run into trouble substantiating her take on celestial science in court. At Moscow's Institute for Thermal Physics, Russia's foremost experts on deep space explosions, if the court asks for their opinion it won't be in Bai's favor.

VLADIMIR FORTOV, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE OF THERMAL PHYSICS: I'd like to congratulate our American colleagues with a great achievement and to a great experiment which is very successful.

CHILCOTE: Some call her crazy. Bai is unfazed by the criticism.

"Let them think I'm crazy," she says. "If only 100 people think about this in a different light then I've accomplished something."

She'll be back in court in three weeks. Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Moscow.


PILGRIM: Well, here are the results of tonight's poll. Seventy- eight percent of you think that journalists should not be jailed for not revealing their confidential sources. Twenty-two percent think they should.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. I'll talk with a Kansas lawyer who thinks American college students should have the same rights as illegal aliens in this country. But a federal judge doesn't agree. Why the lawyer calls today's ruling extremely troubling.

For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now, and Rudi Bakhtiar is sitting in for Anderson -- Rudi.