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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Congress Sells Out; Rove & CIA Leak; Gang of 14; Charles Colson Interview; Afghanistan Opposition
Aired July 14, 2005 - 17:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everybody. Tonight, still no answers from the White House on Karl Rove's involvement, if any, in the leak of a CIA agent's identity. My guest tonight was once known in the White House as the evil genius. My guest is the former special counsel to the president in the Nixon White House.
Also, will special interests play a critical and perhaps decisive role in the fight over Supreme Court nominees? I'll be talking with the chairman of the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee and the ranking Democrat.
And we'll have a special report tonight on the revolutionary new transport aircraft for the Marine Corps. Critics say the controversial Osprey is too dangerous to fly and too expensive, but the Marines say the Osprey is vital to their strategy.
We begin tonight with what is nothing less than a stunning reversal on Capitol Hill and what some are calling an outright sellout by Congress on a critically important national security issue. Congress today voted down legislation that would have given President Bush the power to impose sanctions against European companies that sell weapons to China.
In addition to the triumph of influence peddlers over principle on Capitol Hill, what makes this vote remarkable is the fact that more than 100 congressmen changed their opinions and their votes in response to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other corporate lobbyists.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A no from Mr. Larsen of Washington.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you are hearing is a vote flip-flop. The bill would have given the White House new leverage to crack down on European companies that sell arms and sensitive technology to China. Watch the "yes" vote column on the left. As many as 342 lawmakers supported the bill. But as the vote went on, those yeses quickly dropped off.
PETER BROOKS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I never saw anything like this, especially a member on the floor, lobbying at the last moment, passing out flyers, and then having members go back to their votes and change them right there. I've never seen anything like that. SYLVESTER: That lawmaker was Congressman Don Manzullo, who circulated a "vote no" flyer. The letter was heavily supported by big business, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, National Association of Manufacturers, and the Aerospace Industries Association. In the end, 127 "yes" votes were changed and the measure was defeated.
REP. DON MANZULLO (R), ILLINOIS: Every time we have more export controls in this country it costs us jobs. And this bill went off into a gray area that would have controlled even items that are not controlled today under export controls.
SYLVESTER: The bill's supporters argue it's not jobs, but profits that the large multinational corporations want to protect. But they say profits must take a back seat to national security given China's massive military buildup and the potential for a full-scale war over Taiwan.
REP. TOM LANTOS (D), CALIFORNIA: The American soldiers could face the latest in high-tech weaponry manufactured in Europe, as well as Chinese weapons systems that could be greatly improved by European technology.
SYLVESTER: The legislation would allow the U.S. government to more closely scrutinize French, German and other European countries' weapons sales to China. If foreign defense firms violated arms embargo, they could be denied further access to U.S. technology.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The bill, which has wide bipartisan support, will be brought up again most likely next week. It failed today in a procedural process that required two-thirds vote, but sponsors are confident that they will get it through on a simple majority vote -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester. A remarkable development today. Thank you for the report. Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.
Well, Congress also appears to be on the verge of backing down in the face of another influential lobbyists on a different issue. Published reports saying Bermuda-based consulting firm Accenture could soon win a major victory in a battle to avoid paying millions of dollars in taxes every year. Accenture, of course, moved its corporate headquarters to Bermuda to avoid paying U.S. taxes, but last year's international tax bill did not release Accenture from paying those taxes as the company had originally believed.
The White House today made a determined effort to conduct business as usual and ignore rising, mounting pressure to answer questions about the role, if any, of Karl Rove and the leak of a CIA agent's identity. President Bush today walked to Marine One with Karl Rove in a show of support for his aide. But Senate Democrats today stepped up their verbal attacks on the Bush White House.
Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president usually takes his walk alone. Not today. A message here in pictures he has not yet sent with words. He's standing by Karl Rove.
But what Democrats see is a chance to chip away at a political asset Rove spent years building: the president as someone you can trust.
HOWARD DEAN, CHAIRMAN, DNC: Who do you value more, Mr. President, the security of the American people or your political cronies? Will you keep your word, Mr. President?
BASH: Over and over, Democrats hearken back to a Bush promise to fire anyone involved in outing the covert identity of Valerie Plame, even though the jury is still out on whether that's what Rove really did. Bush opponents want to make the Rove debate about credibility because they already see it eroding.
In a poll taken just before the latest developments, only 41 percent of Americans give Mr. Bush a good rating for being honest and straightforward. His lowest on this question since becoming president.
Privately, even some Bush loyalists fear the White House is now engulfed in a familiar dilemma.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't want to get into commenting on things in the context of an ongoing investigation.
An ongoing investigation.
An ongoing investigation.
I don't want to jeopardize anything in that investigation.
BASH: Letting a legal, not a political strategy, guide the White House message.
Another Bush problem, GOP strategists admit, the Democrats' attack is simple, keep your word, fire Karl Rove. Easy to fit on protests signs organized by MoveOn.org outside the White House. On the other hand, the Rove lines of defense, like he was talking off the record and he actually didn't use the covert agent's name, are much harder to explain.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: It's not likes a sex scandal, which is, you know, instantly understandable. This one is complex.
BASH: Trying to keep the story alive, Senate Democrats offer legislation aimed direct at Rove to take away security clearance for anyone who has disclosed classified information, and invited Valerie Plame's husband, Ambassador Joe Wilson, back into the spotlight. JOE WILSON, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR: I have called for not Karl Rove's resignation, but for the president to honor his word that he would fire anybody who was involved in the leak.
BASH: Bush allies shot back Wilson is not a credible witness for Democrats.
SEN. KIT BOND (R), MISSOURI: It suggests what has been clear all along, that this is purely politics pure and simple. Joe Wilson's attacks were a political sham.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And Wilson, of course, started all of this by saying the administration ignored his warnings, saying that the evidence simply wasn't there to back one of its claims about Iraq's nuclear programs. And Lou, Republicans say they're happy that Wilson stepped back into the spotlight because they say there are a lot of holes in his story -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much. Dana Bash reporting in the midst of a rainstorm in the nation's capital.
Chief Justice William Rehnquist today left the hospital after being treated for a fever. The chief justice returned to his home in Virginia. There is no word tonight on his condition.
Rehnquist went to Virginia Hospital Center in Arlington Tuesday evening for tests and observations. He's also suffering from thyroid cancer. There is rising speculation that Rehnquist will soon announce his retirement from the high court.
A group of U.S. senators that helped prevent a showdown over President Bush's judicial nominees met again today. At issue is the fight over Supreme Court nominees. The so-called Gang of 14 is determined to show that it can play a major role in the debate. But critics say that frustrated the will of the president before, and may well do so again.
Ed Henry reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eighty- seven-year-old Senator Robert Byrd triumphantly announced the return of the Gang of 14.
SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: The voice of conciliation and reason and make way for liberty.
HENRY: The group that averted a nuclear showdown over lower court nominees, now believes it can calm the brewing war over President Bush's first Supreme Court pick.
SEN. BEN NELSON (D), NEBRASKA: I think our group might be a safety valve in some respects.
HENRY: The gang chatted over breakfast and emerged promising to assert itself, especially when the president announces his choice to replace Sandra Day O'Connor.
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: Once a nomination occurs, we're going to come together right away and reason together, but we're going to go from there.
HENRY: These seven Democrats and seven Republicans are pledging to be watchdogs. Tough on the Democrats, if they unfairly launch a filibuster or tough on the president, if he picks someone far out of the mainstream. So far, they're praising the president for consulting Hill leaders in person and placing calls to the swing senators.
LIEBERMAN: There was a generally held consensus that the president and the White House are going about this in exactly the right way.
HENRY: Even Byrd, one of the president's sharpest critics on Iraq and many other issues, had warm words.
BYRD: Our recommendations to the president have been followed. In that, he is reaching out across the aisle and wants the views of senators on both sides of the aisle. That's good.
HENRY: They also joined the president in chastising groups on the right and left.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will George Bush choose an extremist who will threaten our rights?
HENRY: Flooding the airwaves with attack ads, before a nominee has even been selected.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: It just amazes me how many outside interest groups are spoiling for a fight. They're going to be very disappointed if the president nominates a consensus choice. They're not going to be able to raise as much money. They're not going to be able to put on as many divisive ads. They're going to be really crushed if that happens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: In an unusual development late this afternoon, Senator Collins and three of her female colleagues sent a letter to Justice O'Connor, urging her to reconsider her decision to step down from the bench if Chief Justice William Rehnquist decides to retire. Now, this may seem a bit ghoulish to some since the chief justice is just getting out of the hospital today and is still trying to recover from thyroid cancer.
But I spoke to Senator Barbara Boxer, one of the signers of the letter. She said she's just trying to make sure that Sandra Day O'Connor would become the first female chief justice and is trying to make sure the country is united if, in fact, there is a divisive confirmation battle -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, ghoulish, I don't know, but remarkable, Ed, the idea that this group of people would take it upon themselves to intercede in this process directly and without respect for Justice O'Connor's decision. This looks like politics, it could certainly be interpreted as politics of the worst kind.
HENRY: Well, on one hand, Senator Boxer tells me that about five or six months ago she approached Justice O'Connor and asked her whether she would object if, in fact, Boxer and others pushed for O'Connor to become chief justice. As you mentioned, all that has changed now, though, since Justice O'Connor has stepped down and said she wants to step down and take care of her husband, who is not healthy right now.
And secondly, as you also suggest, Chief Justice Rehnquist is still battling cancer. A lot of eyebrows being raised about why this letter has been sent out now -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed Henry from Capitol Hill. Thank you.
In Iraq, insurgents today launched a suicide bomb attack against a checkpoint outside the heavily protected so-called Green Zone in Baghdad. That attack killed one person, five others were wounded.
Two suicide bombers blew themselves up at the checkpoint, a third suicide bomber was caught by Iraqi police before he could detonate his explosives. Officials hope the captured suicide bomber will provide valuable intelligence about terror cells in Iraq.
Turning now to the global hunt for the radical Islamist terrorists who carried out the suicide bomb attacks in London a week ago. More than 50 people killed in those attacks, 700 others wounded.
The FBI has now begun investigating the background of an Egyptian man wanted by British police. The man studied chemical engineering at North Carolina State University at Raleigh in 2000. He has since been linked with a house in Britain that may have been used by the terrorists.
British police are saying nothing about what they discovered in their search of houses in England. So far, police have released the names of only two of the four bombers.
Still ahead here, an astonishing nuclear threat to this country. That threat originating in China. We'll have the special report.
Also, this country's leading aerospace company could be facing prosecution for selling sensitive technology to China. We'll have a special report as well.
And special interests, determining the outcome of the fight over Supreme Court vacancies. The chairman and the ranking Democrat of the Senate Judiciary Committee are my guests.
And a report card on public schools. Important new test scores for our students nationwide. I'll be joined by the secretary of the Department of Education, Margaret Spellings, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: An astonishing threat to the United States by China tonight. "The Financial Times" is reporting that China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the United States in any confrontation over Taiwan. "The Financial Times" says the nuclear threat was made by a major general of the Chinese army at an official Chinese government briefing.
The general declared that if the United States were to target Chinese territory with its missiles, China would have to respond with nuclear weapons against U.S. cities. The general said the definition of Chinese territory includes Chinese warships and aircraft. So far, there has been no response from any U.S. officials to what is a remarkable example of China's rising hostility toward this country.
The Pentagon was supposed to release a new report to Congress, by the way, on China's military threat. That report was due March 1. Three-and-a-half months later, this report has not been released.
Pentagon officials tell us today that it will most likely be released sometime next week. The report has been delayed because of a fierce debate within the Pentagon itself about what to include and what to leave out of that threat assessment report and the extent of China's military threat to the United States and U.S. interests.
Sources tell us there will be two key things to watch for when this report is released finally: the latest assessment of how many short-range nuclear missiles China has placed on its shoreline, threatening directly Taiwan, and what the report will say about medium and long-range ballistic missiles that China is developing but so far has not acknowledged publicly.
Tonight, this country's leading aerospace company is under fire for selling restricted technology to China. Boeing could face prosecution in this case. Security experts say it is just one example of how American business is putting sales over national security.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's in the F- 22 Raptor, the Predator Missile, even the Mars Rover. The tiny QRS11 guidance chip is no bigger than a quarter and classified by the government as a defense item. Boeing uses the chip in civilian aircraft, aircraft it sold to China.
The State Department says it's negotiating with Boeing regarding potential violations of the Arms Export Control Act and international traffic and arms registration. Boeing says it is working with the government to resolve the dispute.
It highlights the crisis of controlling so-called dual use technology, exports the Chinese can adapt for military purposes. The industry maintains these chips are not sensitive technology.
JOEL JOHNSON, AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES ASSOCIATION: But we have to figure out what parameters you try to control and what you don't. This particular chip, for example, there's 90,000 of them out in the world. So I suspect if the Chinese really want one badly to reverse engineer, they can do that.
ROMANS: But security experts complain that American companies are aiding China's military with dual use technology, software, equipment and American know-how.
PETER LEITNER, CENTER FOR ADVANCED DEFENSE STUDIES: If we release too much of this stuff, or the wrong types of this stuff, without any sort of oversight or control, as has been alleged in the Boeing case, then we set ourselves up for strategic surprises in the future.
ROMANS: In fact, Boeing is proud of its close ties with the Chinese government. Its Web site boasts of training 23,000 Chinese nationals, half of them pilots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the presumption is they're going directly into the military production manufacturing plants in China with that newly acquired knowledge, skills and talent that they acquired from the Boeing training programs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Which is why this little gyroscope symbolizes a very big problem: the wholesale transfer of American technology and know-how to the Chinese. And the feeling among many in business and national security that it's already too late after 15 years of this.
DOBBS: And today's vote in the House of Representatives, in which the United States Congress put absolutely profits over principle, and put commerce ahead of national security, it is remarkable. Christine, thank you. Christine Romans.
While China is energetically seeking our highest military technology, it is actively trying to block and has lost its enthusiasm for free speech and the right of the public to know. China is cracking down on its radio and television stations, forbidding them from working with foreigners altogether.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A handful of western media companies have managed to break through the Chinese wall, but now Chinese officials are tightening up rules on what can be broadcast. Limiting English, and banning TV to shows with crime or violence.
ORVILLE SCHELL, UC BERKELEY GRAD SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM: Well, I think we're seeing kind of a contraction here. They're beginning to realize what with the Internet kind of running away with itself, that they've got to maintain a closer control over radio and television.
PILGRIM: Some western companies distribute cartoons and other entertainment to the Chinese markets. Nickelodeon has a joint venture with Chinese partners, and News Corp's Star Group also can do limited broadcast in China. HBO has sold a programming block to Chinese state television.
A new notice by China's state Administration of Radio, Film and Television, the government's television regulator, has been translated for us by an employee of the Chinese Consulate to read the broadcasting station and television station cannot rent their channels to organizations outside China.
Chinese Internet users have already faced dire restrictions. Bloggers must register with authorities. Government software blocks sites with words like "democracy" and "freedom."
MICKEY SPIEGEL, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: It's another in a long, long line of ways to crack down on information flows, information that's getting into China, information that's getting out of China, and even information that's circulating within China. This is aimed at regional broadcasts, and the government doesn't like anything that is really being vetted in a central locale to go out.
PILGRIM: Most of the broadcasting goes to China's vast Pearl River Delta, China's factory district where a third of the export goods are made. It's the most economically dynamic region of China and home to some 45 million people. The factory work has created a cluster of wealthy, middle income professional consumers with a taste for western goods and media.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, for U.S. companies, the prospect of distributing to the vast Chinese market with 1.3 billion people is a commercial programming dream. But, with commercial access becoming more limited, that dream may not be realistic at this point -- Lou.
DOBBS: And increasingly, that is being ignored by too many people in this country. Kitty Pilgrim. Thank you.
Coming up next, a deadly drug, a deadly forgotten war. Methamphetamine abuse exploding in this country. Tons of the drug are being smuggled across our border with Mexico. It is among the worst drug crises in years. We'll have a special report for you.
And Chief Justice William Rehnquist, will there soon be two vacancies on the Supreme Court? Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Senator Arlen Specter, ranking Democratic member Senator Patrick Leahy are my guests next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: On Capitol Hill, the debate over who will be the next Supreme Court justice is intensifying. Interest groups on both sides of the political spectrum, Democrats, and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, are already raising money and raising ads. And raising huge amounts of money, by the way. At least $40 million in special interest money has been pledged to this fight so far.
The -- Senator Arlen Specter, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Senator Patrick Leahy, the ranking Democrat on that committee, both told me earlier that money, no matter how much of it, will not sway their decisions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I've been here and I voted on every member, all nine members of the Supreme Court. I was here for two other nominations that did not go -- go through. I make up my mind based on what I hear from the nominee.
I have no question that Senator Specter, as chairman, myself, the Democrats, will be able to put together good, solid hearings. Frankly, my mind will be made up based on what I hear inside that hearing room, what I hear from the nominee. I think that we can ask questions, certainly enough to get a view of the nominee without having to rely on interest groups of either the right or the left.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We're going to look at the qualities, the character, the background of the individual. And listen, people have a right to say what they want to, but they're not influencing Pat Leahy or Arlen Specter or the United States Senate. That's a fact.
DOBBS: Fourteen of your colleagues have formed the so-called Gang of 14. They've been accused of what is effectively a shadow Judiciary Committee. Is their presence, their formation, their activity helpful, or is it negative for you gentlemen and your colleagues on the Senate Judiciary Committee?
SPECTER: Well, Lou, I think that they performed a very useful function. We had a really tough time with the prospect of the Constitution, the nuclear option and preserving the Senate the right of filibuster. So they came in they did a good job, but I think the Judiciary Committee still has standing. And we'll do our job, but I'm glad to see them in the picture, Lou.
DOBBS: And you raised the nuclear option, Senator Specter. Is it your judgment, the two of you, that you're -- that we're going to be able to avoid a confrontation in the U.S. Senate over the filibuster, over the president's nominee, and over the issue of bringing to bear the so-called nuclear option?
SPECTER: I'm optimistic we can do that, Lou. When we came down to the crunch, senators were exercising their individual judgment. That's something that I urged. Pat did, too, to take off the party straightjacket when you deal with an issue like a Supreme Court nominee, which may be among the most important votes we will ever cast. And I think that the right of filibuster has been preserved, there's been some (INAUDIBLE) restored. DOBBS: The left and the right, with millions of dollars to spend, as you point out, are focusing, attempting to excite their respective bases on the left and the right over the issues of both abortion and affirmative action. How important will those two issues be in your consideration, your deliberations?
Senator Leahy, if you would, first.
LEAHY: Well, they are important issues because they really represent subtle law. I mean, just as I wouldn't expect a nominee to come up and say, "Well, I don't like Brown versus the Board of Education, I'm going to overrule that," or "Gideon versus Wainwright, or any of the other cases of subtle law, I'm going to overrule it," I don't think I'd...
DOBBS: Would you be shocked with that kind of candor from a nominee?
LEAHY: Yes, I would. But that's why you ask a whole lot of questions. There are ways of asking -- but there are a whole lot of issues here. We have a very active Supreme Court now that has almost completely done away with the ability of Congress to legislate under the commerce clause. I'd like to see a less activist Supreme Court.
SPECTER: I don't think a justice ought to be asked in advance how he or she will decide on a specific question. But we know how to get at it.
DOBBS: And indeed you do, as both of have you demonstrated over the years. And you've also demonstrated, I believe here, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there is consensus from your respective positions, at least in terms of judicial activism on the part of a supreme court and a supreme court nominee who would sit on that court.
SPECTER: Well, we're concerned about judicial activism. As Senator Leahy pointed out, a great many Congressional have been found unconstitutional, because the court says that they haven't been thought through. And I raise the very basic question, who is the court to say that they haven't thought it through? That they had thought it through, and that the Congress hasn't thought it through?
But we are also concerned that the court not be activists and encroach on congressional powers.
DOBBS: Senators, thank you both. Senator Leahy. Thank you both, gentleman.
SPECTER: Thank you very much. Good to be with you.
DOBBS: We want to hear from you on this critically important issue. The question, "do you agree with many Democrats and Republicans, and particularly Senator Leahy and Senator Specter, that the Supreme Court nominee should not be a judicial activist? Yes or No." Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up later. Hurricane Emily is now a dangerous category three storm with sustained winds of 115 miles an hour. It is gaining strength in the Eastern Caribbean. A hurricane watch has been posted for Jamaica and tropical storm warnings are up for the Netherlands Antilles, including Aruba. Emily is expected to pass south of Jamaica Saturday, possibly hitting Mexico or Southern Texas by next week..
New uncertainty tonight at the Kennedy Space Center. NASA now says it cannot set a new launch date yet for the Space Shuttle Discovery. Discovery sits on the launch pad as engineers try to repair a faulty fuel sensor. NASA says it could be days before the problem is fixed.
Coming up next, the war on drugs in this country has been all but forgotten. One of the most popular and dangerous drugs in this country is being made in thousands of meth labs. Our special report is next.
And a report card for the nation's schools. Has the controversial No Child Left Behind Act benefited our child? New tests say, yes. The secretary of Department of Education, Margaret Spellings is our guest.
And a new chance for an air craft with a troubled history. Why the military now says the Osprey, part helicopter, part aircraft, part airplane is ready to fly once again. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Methamphetamines, now the number one illegal drug epidemic in the United States. Last year, the Drug Enforcement Administration shut down almost 10,000 meth labs in this country, but drug shipments from Mexico, across our porous southern border, now present a far greater threat. In Riverside, California, Casey Wian with our special report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Riverside County, California, used to be considered the methamphetamine capital of the world, with scenes like this -- the scorched remnants of a meth lab where three young children died -- all too common. But law enforcement has cracked down. In 2002, Riverside County sheriffs busted 142 meth labs. Last year, just 51. And nearly halfway through this year, only ten.
Several states have cut meth production by restricting sales of cold medicines containing pseudoephedrine, the main ingredient in meth. The Senate is considering a bill to ban over-the-counter sales of the products. Even so, meth use continues to rise.
MICHELE LEONHART, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, DEA: Meth has spread like wildfire across this country. It's difficult to avoid, no matter who you are, no matter where you live.
WIAN: Once the domain of California biker gangs, between 70 and 90 percent of the nation's meth now comes from Mexico, mostly smuggled through the San Ysidro border crossing near San Diego in passenger cars.
The problem is so great, the congressional meth caucus now has more than 100 members. Some say it's a bigger border security threat than terrorists or illegal aliens.
REP. KEN CALVERT, (R) CALIFORNIA: These drugs are tearing our country apart. This methamphetamine, if you look into it, it's the worst drug that's ever hit the street. It addicts people almost instantly. It's very difficult to get off of.
WIAN (on camera): The drug produces an intense long-lasting high, that can produce violence, paranoia and increased sexual activity. Users often have young children who are neglected, abused and contaminated with meth-making chemicals.
(voice-over): Riverside County sheriffs this week introduced a specially equipped RV to care for the youngest victims of meth. It contains a hidden camera for interviews with children, a decontamination tub, a crib, toys and food.
DET. BRANDI SWAN, RIVERSIDE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: They can sleep up here if they need to, because lots of these children don't get a lot of that sleep at their home. They're up with a lot of drug activity going on all hours of the day and night. All of these children that we remove from these drug homes, I treat them as if they're my own. I sympathize with them. I put my child's face in their place. And no child deserves that.
WIAN: Nationally, 15,000 children have been removed from meth user homes during the past five years.
Casey Wian, CNN, Riverside, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, Karl Rove, and the CIA leak. My guest tonight is Charles Colson, special counsel to former president Richard Nixon. Colson says he sees chilling parallels between the current White House scandal and Watergate.
And tonight, amazing images of the V-22 Osprey in flight. The controversial Osprey has been riddled with problems and has killed 30 people in accidents. But the Marines say the Osprey is ready for duty. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act facing stiff opposition from many states; states, now considering bills that would allow them to withdraw from the program if they can't win increased federal educational funding, all of this as a key program deadline approaches.
All states must have basic No Child Left Behind requirements in place by the beginning of the school year in September. And in the midst of this debate, encouraging news on student test scores. New figures showing strong reading and math score improvement at the elementary school level, especially among African-American and Hispanic students.
Margaret Spellings is the president's Secretary of Education, joining us tonight from Denver. Secretary Spellings, good to have you here.
MARGARET SPELLINGS, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION; Great to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: And -- you built the program -- helped build the program in its inception. It has become such a controversial program, No Child Left Behind, despite the fact that it was bi-partisan in nature. Do you believe these test scores are strong enough to validate No Child Left Behind?
SPELLINGS: I sure do and I think it shows that we're really on the right track. And the effort continues to be very bi-partisan all over the country and in Washington. It shows us that what gets measured, gets done.
That when we focus on the early grades, reading and math in particular, especially for African-American and Hispanic kids, the achievement just is soaring and it's really a great day for American educators. We all have a debt of gratitude to them, because this hard work is going on in classrooms and it's working for kids.
DOBBS: Nine and 13-year-olds doing better. Seventeen-year-olds showing no change. What -- do you think we are at a point, based on what you're seeing here, that you could say with any confidence that we're actually going to start successfully start teaching our young people and they're going to successfully learn?
SPELLINGS: Well, I think we really have turned the Queen Mary here. I mean these are very, very significant gains in the last five years, that show that we're on the right track. They also show where we have work to do and clearly, with our high school students at age 17, student achievement has remained flat for 30 years, for all kids: For Anglo kids, Hispanic, African-American. We've got to get to work on that.
DOBBS: We got to get to work -- we've got also, that you're familiar with, the Harvard study showing that African-American and Hispanic kids in high school, in southern California dropping out at a rate of almost one out-of-two who enter school, while the state education department was reporting 80 percent graduation rates. We've got some problems, too, in terms of the data that's begin provided by the system itself, don't we?
SPELLINGS: We absolutely do and that's why yesterday, the Department Of Education announced that we're going to require states to report more accurate data about drop-out rates, so that we can have more understanding of what the issues are and get to work on that problem. We -- you know, the that -- the drop-out issue, clearly is part of high-school reform and that's why the president has been so clear, along with the business community and governors about our need to get to work there.
DOBBS: Margaret Spellings, Secretary of the Department of Education. Good to have you here.
SPELLINGS: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN: Anderson Cooper. Anderson joins us now with a preview -- Anderson?.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, next on "360," a surprising turn in the London bombing investigation. The hunt of clues about the bombers is now extending to U.S. soils. Authorities want to know details about a man once enrolled at a North Carolina college and they wan to find out where he is now. We're going to bring you the latest on that. We're also going to go live to Aruba and update you on today's hearing to re-arrest those two brothers released from jail in the disappearance of Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway -- Lou?
DOBBS: Anderson, thank you very much. Coming up here next, Karl Rove and the special prosecutor's investigation. My guest is Charles Colson, former special council in the Nixon White House.
The V-2 Osprey: It has a checkered past, amazing capabilities, but it's in the midst of controversy. I'll be talking to General David Grange, as well, about why this aircraft may be an answer for the Marines.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The investigation into the White House CIA leak has now taken longer than the investigation into Watergate. I'm joined now by a well-known figure from the Watergate scandal. Chuck Colson is the author of many books, including "The Good Life." The central figure, of course, in Watergate and joining us tonight from Naples, Florida. Good to have you with us, Chuck.
CHARLES COLSON, AUTHOR: Thank you, Lou. Nice to be here.
DOBBS: You've been watching the Karl Rove situation; a man who's certainly not been, even at this point, accused of doing anything wrong. And I know you've got -- you sense some parallels between your own circumstances in Watergate and the situation in which he finds himself. what are the most compelling to you in those parallels?
COLSON: Well, the most obvious one is the incredible over-the- top partisanship attacking Karl Rove. Karl Rove is entitled as an American citizen to the presumption of innocence and I hear this incredible statements that he should be denied his security clearance. I happen to know Karl Rove quite well and I find him to be a very decent man; no touch of arrogance. So, I think he's being badly abused in this process and those of us who were inside the bunkers of the White House during the Nixon years, know exactly what it's like to go through that kind of fire.
DOBBS: This fire that's under way right now, as you say, it is partisan, it is fierce. At the same time, you got into considerable trouble, I think we can say that safely, by leaking material to reporters in the connection with the Pentagon papers and our former colleague, Daniel Shore, here. This is an outright admitted leak. It's a question now of whether or not he violated a law. What do you make of those parallels?
COLSON: Well, it's a parallel in the sense that they're both talking about leaks. In my case, which I've written about in my book, which you were kind enough to mention, I've written about the fact that I didn't draw the ethical lines where I should have; that you have, in the White House, the infinite capacity for self- rationalization. All politicians do.
And so, I found myself not seeing the warning signals when I should have. I don't think this situation rises to that at all, with Karl Rove. What I did was deliberate, to try to interfere with Daniel Ellsberg's rights at a time when he had stolen the Pentagon Papers. I don't think theirs any evidence that this woman -- anybody knew this woman was a cover asset. So, I don't -- I mean, I don't understand yet what the problem is.
DOBBS: Yes.
There's much that all of us don't understand. For example, why it takes two years to investigate a leak from the White House in which we now know, at least one person, early on, could have said: Yes, he did in fact leak information.
The second part of this that is interesting, is the support that Daniel Schorr received, rather than censure in the Pentagon Papers case. I know that you may not be entirely comfortable with that and the fact that -- the point of fact that two reporters turned out to be targets of the special prosecutor. What are your thoughts and reaction to that?
COLSON: Well, that is one of the chilling aspects because I think the press needs to have the freedom to report without fear of prosecution. And I think in the Watergate, it was clear that the reporters were doing an important service. Here, they seem to be put under the gun, I think, quite severely. That's not a good thing.
DOBBS: Would you -- given your experience, your values in philosophy now -- would you advise this White House just let the chips fall where they may, and tell the prosecutor, the special counsel, the special prosecutor, all that they know and be done with it? They were supposed to be providing full cooperation.
COLSON: Well, so far as I know, they've been doing that, Lou. I'm not aware of the circumstances inside of the White House. Obviously, they're going to cooperate with the prosecutor. The president has said that. And it would be very foolish not to, because that will only compound the problem.
DOBBS: That just leaves one wondering, then, why does it take more than two years, does it take almost two years to come to a conclusion? chuck, we thank you very much for being with us.
COLSON: Well, somebody should be asking the prosecutor.
Thank you.
DOBBS: It would be nice to have that opportunity. Chuck Colson, thank you.
Still ahead here, the results of tonight's poll, on the return of the controversial Osprey, a multibillion dollar program with a troubled history. It's what key military support -- but some say the Osprey is still far too dangerous to fly. We'll have that special report for you and General David Grange here next. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The U.S. military has declared the Osprey tilt wing aircraft is suitable and effective for military use. But critics say the controversial Osprey is still simply too dangerous to fly and too expensive. Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Marine Corps Air Station, New River, North Carolina, the Navy is showing off the new and improved V-22 Osprey. And for the first time ever, taking nongovernmental civilians, including CNN, on a demonstration flight to show how the tilt rotor allows the Osprey to hover like a helicopter and then, in as little as 12 seconds, fly like a plane.
(on camera): One thing the V-22 Osprey has got going for it is speed. I've been in helicopters before, this is much faster. On a good day, a helicopter might go 100 miles an hour. We're going upwards of 300 miles an hour.
(voice-over): After 16 years, nearly $20 billion and four major accidents that killed 30 people, the Marine Corps insists the V-22 is finally good to go.
LT. GEN. MIKE HOUGH, DEP. COMMANDANT FOR AVIATION: We think all of the problems that have been part of the past, and the things that we foretell the future based on the models and so forth, the ringing out is done.
MCINTYRE: The V-22 was grounded in 2002 after two deadly crashes, including this one in Arizona that killed 19 marines after pilots descended too quickly, causing the massive rotors to lose lift. Critics worry that despite all the fixes, the complex design may still be unsuited to the rigors of real war.
Pilots argue, that's no longer true. Better training and redundant systems, they say, make flying the V-22 a breeze.
MAJ. TODD SCHIRO, USMC V-22 PILOT: The pilot itself, doesn't have to make too many quick decisions in this airplane. When things happen, basically, he just has to assess what the systems are telling him and continue to fly the airplane appropriately.
MCINTYRE (on camera): The V-22 is expensive, $71 million a copy, even more if you count everything spent on development. But it has significant advantages over the old Vietnam era CH-46, which it will replace the aircraft on the front lines in 2007 if the Pentagon and Congress sign off.
(voice-over): The V-22 can carry troops twice as fast and six times as far as U.S. helicopters in use now. And it has another advantage that might have made a difference with a shootdown of a helicopter in Afghanistan. It's so quiet, you can't hear it coming until it's almost over your head.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, New River, North Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The loss of 19 special forces and a Chinook helicopter in a single mission in Afghanistan highlights the escalating insurgency there. To meet that challenge, the United States has now ordered 700 more airborne troops to Afghanistan. Australia will also be sending special forces into Afghanistan by September.
Joining me now, General David Grange. General, let me first of all say with the insurgency gaining strength in Afghanistan, will special forces be called for in even greater numbers now?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think right now you have a surge of insurgent activity along the border area, and you have increased operations, offensive operations by the coalition forces. So, it's a critical time: parliamentary elections, plus the increase of enemy movement. Yes, there will be more troops.
DOBBS: And in Iraq, the idea that there is a quote-unquote, "secret drawdown plan" which had been dismissed by the Pentagon, nonetheless, those reports in Britain, do you think that's realistic at all to think there will be a significant drawdown of U.S. troops by next year?
GRANGE: I don't think there'll be a significant drawdown. I believe there will be some drawdown. But there's always plans, as we talked about before Lou. And then you work from the conditions that you meet on the ground and change those plans as need be, yes.
DOBBS: And Jamie McIntyre, the first television correspondent to fly in the Osprey, obviously impressed with its capabilities. What are your thoughts? It's a controversial aircraft with a terrible, terrible history.
GRANGE: Well, it's the capability of speed, of distance and versatility. Once you get into the targeted area that the armed forces needs. The Marines definitely need it, because of their antiquated flight equipment that they have. Special operations needs it. But it's a very expensive platform. And I don't think we're going to buy too many of them.
DOBBS: Very expensive. Do you think it would have made a difference, as best you can make a judgment, if those special force guys would have been on the Osprey?
GRANGE: In a shoot-down in Afghanistan, no. It might be quieter on the approach, but once you get on the landing zone, all aircraft of that type are vulnerable to ground fire.
DOBBS: General David Grange, thank you, sir.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: The results of tonight's poll, 86 percent of you say you agree with many Democrats and Republicans that the Supreme Court nominee should not be a judicial activist.
And finally tonight, "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller remains in jail where she has spent eight days in prison for refusing to reveal her confidential sources in the White House CIA leak case.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. The forgotten war on drugs, our special coverage continues. We'll have that special report "The Forgotten War." Please be with us. Thanks for being here tonight.
Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.
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