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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Radical Islamist Terror; Bush's Defiance; War in Iraq; NYPD Bag Searches; Dayworker Dilemma
Aired August 04, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, President Bush is defiant after the deadly attacks against U.S. Marines in Iraq. Our military analyst will talk about the enemy's changing tactics in Iraq.
Plus, soaring temperatures in many regions of this country. New concerns about the rising strap on our power grid. We'll have a special report.
And the very latest on the Shuttle Discovery and whether it can return to Earth, as scheduled, on Monday.
We begin tonight with the president's defiance in the war against radical Islamist terrorists. President Bush declared terrorists will never drive the United States out of Iraq. His comments after new threats against the United States and Britain by al Qaeda's second in command.
We'll have more on the president's remarks in a moment, but first this report by Matthew Chance in London -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, just a month after more than 50 people were killed on London's transport system, the second in command of the al Qaeda network, Ayman al-Zawahiri, has appeared in a videotaped message broadcast initially on the Arabic language Al-Jazeera television network, blaming Tony Blair, the British prime minister, for those attacks, and, of course, threatening more strikes on the British capital.
The content of his message very much followed the same kind of pattern that al Qaeda leaders, including al-Zawahiri, have made in the past. He was sitting with a rifle at his one side. It looked like he was outside at the time the videotape was filmed. There was a woven cloth as a backdrop for him to try and prevent people who would be looking at this tape very carefully to give them any idea about where this broadcast was made from.
Let's have a quick listen, though, to the kind of rhetoric that Ayman al-Zawahiri was coming out with in this broadcast to the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI, AL QAEDA (through translator): Sheikh Osama told you don't dream of peace before we live it as a reality in Palestine and until all infidel troops pull out of the land of Mohammed. Instead, you ran rivers of blood in our land, and we blew a volcano of anger in your land.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Volcanoes of anger, indeed. Very much the kind of rhetoric that has been sort of commonplace coming from the al Qaeda leadership over recent months and, indeed, recent years.
Experts, though, that we've spoken to here in London, at least, don't believe that al Qaeda would have directly ordered the attacks on the London transport system, either the July the 7th attacks in which more than 50 people were killed, or the attacks two weeks later, just two weeks ago today, the failed bombings of July the 21st, which, of course, did not detonate and did not kill anyone. Much more likely say analysts here that this is merely an attempt if not to claim responsibility for those attacks, merely to associate the al Qaeda network with those who carried them out -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Interesting, Matthew. Now, there are new terror charges in London tonight. What can you tell us about those?
CHANCE: Well, over the past 48 hours or so, in fact, we've been seeing the beginning of the charges being filed against the various suspects. Some 15 people being held in police custody. Another two people tonight have been charged with crimes relating to terrorism under the British anti-terrorism act.
They've in fact been charged with withholding information after the July 21 attempted attacks that could have led to an earlier arrest of the suspects in those attacks. It's believed the two that have been arrested, rather charged, are two women.
One of them is believed to have been the partner, if not the wife of Hamdi Issac, the individual who was arrested in the Italian capital, Rome. Her sister, as well, believed to have been charged tonight. We're expecting to see many more charges over the coming days and weeks -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Matthew Chance.
President Bush today declared the United States will stay on the offensive against terrorists. The president also reaffirmed that this country will complete the job in Iraq.
Elaine Quijano reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At his Texas ranch, President Bush remained defiant in the face of recently-released videotaped threats by bin Laden deputy Ayman al- Zawahiri.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The comments by the number two man of al Qaeda make it clear that Iraq is a part of this war on terror. And we're at war. We will stay the course. We will complete the job in Iraq.
QUIJANO: During a joint appearance with the leader of Colombia, President Bush describes Zawahiri and those like him as having a dark, dim, backwards ideology. And the president reminded the world where Zawahiri's allegiance lies.
BUSH: Zawahiri was a part of that team that attacked us on September the 11th, 2001. He was part of an al Qaeda group that said, well, we'll try to achieve our objective in attacking America.
QUIJANO: The battles in Iraq are being felt particularly hard in America's heartland. Flowers and mementos were left in Brook Park, Ohio, home base to many of the more than two dozen Marines killed in Iraq since Sunday.
BUSH: The people of Brook Park and the family members of those who lost their life, I hope they can take comfort in the fact that millions of their fellow citizens pray for them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Now, the president still refuses to outline a time frame for U.S. troop withdrawal, insisting that American forces will only return home when Iraqis can take care of their own security -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Elaine Quijano.
Federal agents have arrested a Maryland man on charges of supporting a foreign terrorist organization. Mahmoud Farouq Brent (ph) is accused of helping a Pakistan-based terrorist group. Prosecutors also say Brent (ph) attended a terrorist camp in Pakistan.
Four more American troops have been killed in combat in Iraq. Now, these latest deaths come after 14 U.S. Marines were killed yesterday in a massive bomb attack. It is the deadliest period for U.S. troops in Iraq since the U.S. invasion in March of 2003.
Jamie McIntyre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These pictures taken by an Associated Press photographer a day after show why the 14 U.S. Marines and their civilian interpreter never stood a chance. The force of the powerful bomb buried in a dirt road flipped the lightly-armored amphibious assault vehicle, setting it on fire, and trapping inside anyone not killed by the initial blast.
The 26-ton AAV is really designed for storming beaches, the traditional Marine Corps missions. Its thin armor provides protection against small arms fire, but not much else. And insurgents are adapting, building bigger bombs with sophisticated shaped charges to increase their lethality. Military officials say the doomed troop transport did have extra added armor, but judging from the size of the crater, it's not clear even a heavily-armored 60-ton M1 tank could have survived the blast.
BRIG. GEN. DONALD ALSTON, U.S. AIR FORCE: It's not just about the armor that you carry, it's about your tactics and it's about how you evolve and develop those and try to defend yourself before those things detonate as well.
MCINTYRE: The deaths, along with four more announced Thursday, puts the four-day toll at least 25 Americans. And nearly 50 have died over the past 10 days. That's the highest rate of U.S. casualties since the first week of the war in March of 2003.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald rumsfeld, you can't hide!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't hide!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We charge you with genocide.
MCINTYRE: In Los Angeles, as demonstrators protested his appearance at the World Affairs Council, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld opened his speech with a tribute to the Marines who died in Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Our nation need them. Our nation called on them in battle. And we mourn them now in death. Our country will honor them by completing the mission, which -- for which they fought so hard and so nobly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In that speech, Rumsfeld vowed that the U.S. would never surrender to terrorism, nor apologize for spreading freedom. What's required in the test of wills, he said, is resolve, not retreat, and courage, not concession -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Jamie McIntyre.
A U.S. serviceman was also killed in Afghanistan today. A second serviceman was wounded. The military said their vehicle was hit by an insurgent bomb.
The new U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, today warned Syria and Iran not to interfere in Iraq. Bolton's comments came as the United Nations Security Council unanimously condemned the surge in violence in Iraq. It was Bolton's first vote in the U.N. since he became ambassador on Monday.
The American public is deeply split over the war in Iraq. That split has led to an intensifying debate in national and local politics. And one example is Ohio, which lost 19 U.S. Marines in two separate attacks in Iraq this week.
Bill Schneider has our report -- Bill. WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Kitty, Republicans face some sobering political news from Ohio this week, where democratic war critic Paul Hackett very nearly won an upset victory in a heavy Republican congressional district.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Former House speaker Newt Gingrich called the Ohio election a wakeup call for Republicans. Gingrich told "The Washington Post," "There is more energy today on the anti-Iraq, anti-gas price, anti-changing-Social Security and I think anti- Washington side. I think the combination of those four are all redounding to weaken Republicans and help Democrats."
Back in 1994, the anti-Washington mood swept Democrats out of power and swept Gingrich in. If he believes Republicans are now in trouble, it's worth paying attention.
At least one analyst believes the concern may be overstated.
RHODES COOK, ELECTION ANALYST: We're in an era now unlike Watergate, a generation ago, or even maybe 10 years ago, that it's basically safe (INAUDIBLE). There are very few seats that are really in play barring a national trauma taking place.
SCHNEIDER: Could Iraq become that national trauma? In a new CBS News poll, nearly 60 percent of Americans say the war in Iraq was not worth the loss of American life and other costs. When American lives are lost, entire communities grieve. It dominates local news coverage for days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All nine of those members who died in that...
SCHNEIDER: Stories like that lead some voters to question what the U.S. is doing in Iraq. One of them was Republican Congressman Walter Jones from North Carolina.
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: When I attended Michael Bitts (ph) funeral in April of 2003, a Marine who left three -- three children, twins he never saw, and when his wife read the last letter word for word at his funeral, on the way back to my little town of Farmville, North Carolina, I was emotional for 72 miles.
SCHNEIDER: In June, Representative Jones co-sponsored a resolution calling for the United States to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq by October 2006. That resolution now has 45 co-sponsors, including four Republicans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The public is split, according to the CBS News poll, over whether the U.S. is making progress in bringing stability and order to Iraq. It's not just losses that demoralize Americans, it's also the concern that not enough is being accomplished in Iraq to make the sacrifice worthwhile -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Schneider.
Two former employees of a pro-Israel lobby organization have been charged with disclosing classified Pentagon information. The two men work for the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee. A Pentagon analyst has also been charged in this case. Now, the FBI has been investigating whether the lobby group passed on secret Pentagon information to Israel.
Well, still to come, soaring temperatures a huge strain on our power grid. Are power cuts likely? A special report.
Plus, a critical decision on whether the Shuttle Discovery needs more repairs in space. We'll have the latest on that.
And should taxpayer dollars be used to pay for day labor centers that attract illegal aliens? We'll have a debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Dangerous heat gripped much of the country again today. The Midwest and the northeast saw temperatures in the mid to upper 90s. Parts of the southwest once again saw 100-degree heat. In the Pacific northwest, temperatures in Portland, Oregon, closed in on an all-time record.
Now, this scorching heat is sparking new wildfires in the northwest. Hundreds of firefighters are battling a major blaze in central Washington State. The fire has burned nearly 1,000 acres so far.
In addition to the hot weather, parts of the nation are also suffering from serious drought. Many states in the northwest are under drought emergencies, and so are parts of Illinois and Michigan.
The summer's deadly heat wave is pushing U.S. power grids to their absolute limit. Two years after the massive East Coast blackout, are we in danger of another major power failure? Well, the energy industry says a lot has changed since 2003.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Images of August 14, 2003 remain fresh in the memories of many throughout the northeast, upper Midwest and Canada. Those images reawakened with forecasts of yet another day of record power demands in the northeast.
News from Ontario's power authority that it reduced voltage in its power lines by 5 percent further frayed people's nerves. Independent system operators or ISOs, the companies that distribute the power, reassured customers that a major blackout is not likely.
CAROL MURPHY, NEW YORK IND. SYSTEM OPERATOR: There's a lot more coordination between ISOs, the people like the New York independent system operator, those out in the Midwest, New England, in terms of coordination, daily multiple conference calls, to look at system conditions, share information.
TUCKER: Awareness is up. Equipment and communications improved and upgraded as utilities work together.
BRUCE GERMANO, LONG ISLAND POWER AUTHORITY: We work as a region, but we work together. And the idea here is, is that if they have the need for power, and we have the ability to supply it, we need to be able to do that.
TUCKER: That cooperation is crucial. Demand is being driven as much by the record temperatures that are being set across the country as by our lifestyles of larger homes needing more air-conditioning, more cell phones plugged in to recharge, more computers in the home, and gaming systems. That demand is pushing the industry to aggressively try and build for the future.
WADE MALCOLM, ELECTRIC POWER RESEARCH INSTITUTE: The grid of the future is a system that integrates both a communications and a power infrastructure. It's being shaped and designed as we speak by -- by a dozen or so progressive utilities, some equipment manufacturers, and some government organizations as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: That grid of the future, though, needs to arrive quickly. So far, we've been lucky. We've not had a day when all of the ISOs experienced peak demand on the same day. Should that happen, buying power from each other to meet demand might not be as possible as it is so far this summer.
PILGRIM: So, the bottom line, we should still worry about it?
TUCKER: Well, the bottom line is, they have upgraded equipment, they have spent money, but they haven't rebuilt any of the major infrastructure, all those power lines that you see out there. And that is a concern for some people, saying it's simply -- they're just not enough and they need to be upgraded.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker.
Well, we would like to know what you think about this issue. Now, who do you think should be responsible for preventing another massive blackout in the United States? Here are your choices: government, business, or both?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com, and we'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
NASA today announced that there will be no new space walk for the Shuttle Discovery. NASA was considering an unprecedented fourth space walk to fix a damaged thermal blanket near the cockpit window, but NASA said today the ripped blanket does not pose a threat to the shuttle on reentry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WAYNE HALE, NASA: I am not here to tell you that we are 100 percent confident that there's no risk during entry. That would be untrue and foolish to even try to make that case.
What I am here to tell you is we've assessed this risk to the very best of our engineering knowledge, and we believe that it is remote, small, whatever adjective you want to put with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Today's news follows yesterday's flawless space walk to repair the shuttle's underbelly. And the space shuttle is set to land on Monday.
Coming up next, bloody Iraq. Insurgents stepping up their attacks on American forces. How should coalition forces respond? General David Grange joins us next.
And then, to profile or not to profile when hunting for terrorists. One group says the random searches on subways are useless. A top official from the New York Civil Liberties Union is our guest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The deaths of 14 U.S. Marines in a single attack in Iraq one example of new and deadly insurgent tactics. Another example is the killing of six U.S. Marine snipers in an ambush in the same town two days earlier.
Well, joining me now is General David Grange to assess the situation.
And thanks for being with us, sir.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.
PILGRIM: The first thing I wanted to ask is about the proper vehicles for conducting operations in Iraq. How do you assess that?
GRANGE: Well, Kitty, there's no perfect vehicle. It's not just what the vehicle is constructed of, the capabilities of movement and firing, it's the -- it's the tactics used and how you take on the enemy, move from point A to B with a vehicle.
The vehicles that the Marines have are older vehicles. They do have armor protection, but they don't have enough armor protection to protect themselves from something that most likely happened in this attack.
It looks like it was some type of anti-vehicle, anti-tank mine, maybe more than one, that caused that kind of damage. And it would have taken out any vehicle on the battlefield if that's the case. PILGRIM: You know, we heard from Jamie McIntyre earlier in this broadcast, saying bigger bombs and more shaped charges. Are the bombs against the vehicles getting more sophisticated?
GRANGE: Very much so. The enemy learns, just like our forces do. And what they're talking about in the safe charge is it directs the force of the blast in a very small area for penetration of the vehicle. And then you get all the damage inside once it penetrates the armored skin. And it's very directional.
They can be fired horizontally or vertically. And it's a very capable munition to use against vehicles. And that may be the case here.
PILGRIM: Let's talk about the six U.S. Marine snipers. It was reported that they were lured out and ambushed. Do you believe that's accurate?
GRANGE: I don't think so, because it's not the type of mission that a sniper team would conduct. They would not react. In other words, when people say lured out, that means incidents happened that caused the coalition forces to move out. And they wouldn't move out, sniper teams, to react to something like that.
So in this case, I don't think that's true. I think it was -- they were moving to a position, one position to another. They had a contact with an enemy force, a brief fire fight took place, and they perished in that case.
PILGRIM: General Grange, do you think that the U.S. forces should alter their tactics in any way? This is a couple of horrifying days, actually, in Iraq.
GRANGE: Kitty, they're tough days, but you have to take -- take in perspective what's going on. The Marines and other coalition forces, to include a lot of Iraqis, are on offensive operations to sweep this river basin northwest of Baghdad up through towards Syria. And when you go on an offensive operations like this, more casualties are going to occur on both sides. That's the main reason for this.
Should you change your tactics continuously? Yes. For survival, to get positional advantage or outsmart your opponent, both sides continually change their tactics, their techniques and procedures during combat.
PILGRIM: Your ideas on where these insurgents are coming from, General Grange?
GRANGE: I think in this case most of these insurgents are locals. They're former Ba'athist party supporters. But I think there is definitely foreign fighters involved in the mix. And they're coming across the border to join the fray.
This is something they like to do. It's their -- it's their -- their calling, you might say. And they are in the area, joining the local Iraqis in the fight. PILGRIM: And who is funding them?
GRANGE: I think most of the funding -- the funding for the local Iraqis, former Ba'athists, are coming -- is probably coming out of Syria, where many are in hiding, some of the old leaders of Saddam, financing these operations. And then you have money coming from some of the countries in the region. I think there's covert money coming from Syria.
If you go in the southern part of Iraq, you maf money coming from Iran, supporting some of the Shia extremists. So it's coming from several countries. And that needs to stop in order to help contain and then accomplish the mission for the coalition Iraqi forces in Iraq.
PILGRIM: You can certainly connect the dots with John Bolton's comments at the United Nations today on that. Thanks very much for being with us this evening. General David Grange.
Thank you.
GRANGE: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Well, our quote of the day tonight comes from Defense Secretary Donald rumsfeld. He was in California. Secretary Rumsfeld responded to the press questioning the administration portrayal of our role in Iraq, and his response comes after officials recently began referring to the war in Iraq as "the struggle against violent extremism."
Now, Rumsfeld said today, "Let there be no doubt, no mistake, we are a nation at war, a war against terrorist enemies that are seeking our surrender or retreat."
Coming up, random searches in our nation's subways. We'll talk to one group who wants them stopped. They say it violates the Constitution.
Plus, a heated broken border debate over day laborers. Many of them are illegal aliens. Now, should towns make it easier for them to find jobs?
And in crisis of conscience. It used to take months, now it takes only weeks. The debate over a stunning new test. It lets parents tell the sex of their child sooner than ever.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The new random bag searches on New York City's subway have prompted a lawsuit. Now, these searches were implemented after the London subway bombings. But the New York Civil Liberty Union says they're useless and unconstitutional. I'm joined now by the associate legal director of the NYCLU, Christopher Dunn. And thanks very much for being with us.
CHRISTOPHER DUNN, NYCLU: Thank you for having us on. PILGRIM: You filed the suit with the city of New York. You say it's unlawful. What would you have done instead?
DUNN: We certainly think that the Police Department can and should take aggressive measures. And we don't have any objection to reasonable searches. Now, what we object to is the program they put into place, which is a program of subjecting millions of people to searches without any suspicion of wrongdoing. And they're doing it in a way that doesn't really affect safety in the subway system. The way they're doing it, virtually all the entrances to the subway system are unmonitored. Even those selected for searches can walk around and go into another entrance.
PILGRIM: I myself did it the other day, because I didn't want to be held up. I was in a rush. So I simply walked ten feet over and went in the other way.
DUNN: Right.
PILGRIM: But they are doing this in an effort to -- one in ten, they pick out randomly. And they are doing it in an effort to be open minded about it and not profile people. How do you think it can be done more effectively?
DUNN: Well, the first thing they should be doing, we believe, is what experts say, which is to focus on suspicious activity and suspicious people. It makes no sense to be just picking out every fifth or tenth person. I mean, as many people have pointed out, they're searching the grandmothers who are lugging around their Macy's bags.
PILGRIM: So, in an effort to be sensitive, they're actually not doing well in their job. Is that right?
DUNN: Well, that's part of it. And we command the city for trying to avoid racial profiling. That's the right thing to be doing.
But if what they want to do is something as effective, but most people say we're not security experts, we rely on expert experts, most people say they should focus on suspicious activity. And they certainly should be doing it in a way that protects the system. Right now, virtually every single entrance in the subway system is open for anyone who wants to go in. And there's no safety value for that.
PILGRIM: Now, you called for something -- terrorist profiling. Not just straight profiling, terrorist profiling. How would that function? How do you envision that?
DUNN: Well, we're not security experts. The police department of New York City knows lots about terrorism. They know lots about suspicious activity. What we are saying makes sense. And what the constitutional requires is that for the police to focus on people who they have some suspicion of. That's for the police to figure out.
But under our system, people can't be stopped and searched by the police without any suspicion of wrongdoing whatsoever, and that's not what's happening under this program.
PILGRIM: Do you think that London does it better?
DUNN: London doesn't do this. And one of the things that we have been told I think that is striking is there is no other major transit system in the western world that does random searches of a small number of entrances to a mass transit system. They focus on people who they suspect. And that's what makes sense. And that's what we think would be more effective. And it certainly would be legal.
PILGRIM: What are your chances of getting this done? Getting this through? After all, you have an entire city on high alert. Certainly the attacks in London call for extremely strenuous measures. There's an attempt to do it with some sensitivity. I'm sure you're not being met with sympathy on this mission.
DUNN: Well, you know, I think it's surprising. Over the last two weeks I think many New Yorkers have come to realize as they go into the subway system and they don't see any searches, or they see an easy way to avoid searches, that the program this police department has put into place doesn't make sense.
There are lots of things they can do. There are lots of things they should do. But when it comes to a program like this, where thousands of people are being searched without suspicion and yet most entrances to the subway system are completely open for terrorists, I think we can succeed. And I think most courts will recognize this is not a system that makes sense.
PILGRIM: Well, thank you for bringing a very interesting dialogue to this very important issue. Christopher Dunn, thank you.
DUNN: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Alabama taking action to protect private property. That's after a controversial ruling from the Supreme Court. Now, Governor Rob Riley signed the new eminent domain law yesterday. It would block the state and local governments from seizing anyone's property for private development.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BOB RILEY, ALABAMA: Alabamians can rest assured that their homes, their farms, their businesses and other private property are safe from being seized by government for a shopping center, a factory, an office building, or residential development. With this new law on the books, Alabamians will have the strongest property protection in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: This new law still allows Alabama to seize land for roads, schools and other public works.
Well, let's look at some of your thoughts. We love reading the e-mail.
Leon in Lunberton, New Jersey writes, "we as Americans should make a distinction between racial profiling and criminal profiling. Stopping individuals as part of a criminal profile is perfectly legal."
Joseph O'Hara Brandon of Florida writes, "attempts to battle terrorism with profiling assumes the terrorists are too stupid to learn to recruit people who don't fit the profile."
And Patricia from Lake Mary, Florida, writes, "times have changed. We can no longer afford to be blindly generous in our attitudes toward others. When sharks have been seen near a beach full of swimmers, the life guards do not go out looking for starfish."
Jerry in Ocala, Florida writes, "what does the term free trade really mean? It sounds really nice when the word free is included in these descriptions of how we trade our goods with countries, but it doesn't put Americans to work."
Richard in Salt Lake City, Utah, "with the $162 billion trade deficit the United States now has with China, aren't we financing communist China's military expansion? It's time for the Bush administration to end its silence on communist China, and demand a more fair trade policy."
And Trisha from Corona, California, "instead of giving free handouts, the illegal immigrants that cross our border from Mexico every day, we should give free handouts to the American citizens who volunteer their time to patrol our borders."
We do love hearing from you in our e-mail. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@cnn.com. And each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast will receive a copy of Lou's book, "Exporting America." Also, if you would like to receive the e-mail newsletter, you can sign up at our Web site at loudobbs.com.
Well, when we come back, divided over day laborers. Suburban Washington wants them off of the streets, but does the solution encourage more to come? We'll have a debate.
And in crisis of conscience, parents can find out the sex of their baby within weeks of pregnancy with a new test. Should they be able to? A special report coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: We have this just in to CNN, the Associated Press is reporting Chief Justice William Rehnquist has been hospitalized in Washington. He is said to have a fever. Now, Chief Justice Rehnquist has been battling thyroid cancer and CNN will have the very latest on the story as it develops.
Tonight in "Broken Borders:" A town divided over day-laborers, men who often look for work or odd jobs by standing in parking lots or street corners. Herndon, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, is debating whether to build a waiting area, a special site paid for with taxpayer dollars. Opponents say state money should not be used to help illegal aliens find work and break the law. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The issue of day- laborers has inflamed the small community of Herndon, Virginia. Fairfax County wants to spend 170,000 taxpayer dollars to build a work center for day-laborers, many of them illegal aliens.
LINDA MULLER, OPPOSES WORK CENTER: If they're illegal aliens, they're illegal. They're criminals. They shouldn't be in this country. They should be deported and they shouldn't be given American jobs.
LELA HEAD, SUPPORTS WORK CENTER: I am just ashamed by the hate- filled sentiment that I'm seeing from many of my neighbors who claim to be people of faith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're not un-Christian. The people that are here today want the federal law to be enforced. They want the law to be upheld.
SYLVESTER: Hundreds showed up to voice their concerns at a Herndon Town Planning Commission meeting. But tensions have been simmering for months: 50 to 100 workers hang out at a local 7-11 store. The group's so large, it's spilling into neighborhoods.
BILL THRELKELD, PROJECT HOPE AND HARMONY: With no sort of systematic employment distribution system, you'll find that when someone needs a laborer, they'll come up and they get swarmed. I call it piranha effect.
SYLVESTER: Some Herndon residents fear they're losing the quaint charm of the town.
MICHELE GARRISON, RESIDENT: I have been harassed. I will not go to the 7-11 and I'm not comfortable going to the Wachovia, which is my bank right across the street.
SYLVESTER: Herdon's mayor is in the middle. He wants to address these complaints, but for now, is stuck with an unpopular solution.
MICHAEL O'REILLY, HERDON MAYOR: At a local level, we're trying to clean up a local issue, a local problem. At a national level, I can't solve who's here legally and who's not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And last night, the Herndon Planning Commission denied a recommendation to build the work center, but it's the town council that has the final say. The council is expected to take up the issue on August 16th.
Reporting live in Herndon, Virginia, I'm Lisa Sylvester. Back to you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Lisa.
Joining me with their take on the debate over the day-laborers is Joel Mills, an executive council member of Project Hope and Harmony and he is pushing for this day-labor site in Herndon.
And Republican Scott Lingamfelter, a member of the Virginia House of Delegates, who is against using tax dollars for the site. And gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us.
JOEL MILLS, PROJECT HOPE AND HARMONY: Pleasure to be here.
SCOTT LINGAMFELTER (R), VIRGINIA HOUSE OF DELEGATES: Thanks for having me.
PILGRIM: Let's start with you, Joel. What is the site going to look like? First of all, let's just describe it?
MILLS: Well, I should begin by letting our viewers know that this is not a new issue in the town of Herndon. We've been experiencing problems with an informal (INAUDIBLE)
What Project Hope and Harmony is proposing to do is create a safe location and an orderly process for market activity that we already know is going to occur. That's what we want to do. We want to take care of the safety issues, the immediacy of those issues in our town.
PILGRIM: How do you get around the fact that these people are here illegally, most of them?
MILLS: We don't have any numbers to say who's here legally or illegally.
PILGRIM: But common sense would tell you, right?
MILLS No. In fact, we've found that this population is not different from other populations and there are legal citizens. There are new immigrants. There may be illegal aliens among that population., but our basic issue is that we're experiencing a range of problems with an informal site that we've had for the better part of a decade and we haven't had a solution. So, that is where our proposal is coming from.
PILGRIM: Scott, how do you feel about that argument?
LINGAMFELTER: Well, Kitty, first: Thanks for having me on. Let me just make this point. My position is we just should not be spending taxpayer money to finance that which is really subsidizing what is an illegal activity.
I mean, when you really look at this, this is symptomatic of a larger problem. That problem is this: Do we want our localities to be doing the federal government's job? The federal government needs to secure our borders, because if we can't keep, Kitty, the illegal aliens from coming across our borders, how can we keep the terrorists from coming across.
They have got to take action. We really can't wait any longer on this. Because the truth of the matter is, we need spent our tax dollars guarding our borders, not building day-care for day laborers.
PILGRIM: Joel, you know, really what you're saying is, don't ask, don't tell on the legality of these people, just build the site. Do you think that's legitimate?
MILLS: We're not making judgments about illegal immigration. That is not the issue here. I should say that casual labor is in fact legal. Most of us at some time in our lives have been involved in casual labor via hiring a babysitter, someone in the neighborhood to mow a lawn, etcetera.
I grew up in the delegate's district, where I stood on a street corner in an industrial park myself, hoping to get employment with a -- moving drivers that were passing through the area. It's not an illegal activity.
What we need to do is put in place some safety mechanisms so this can take place without the problems we are experiencing in our town. We don't disagree that illegal immigration is an issue in our nation, but in our town, in our community, the main issue, the one of immediacy is public safety.
PILGRIM: Scott, what do you think about this whole issue of building the site? But then perhaps checking credentials?
LINGAMFELTER: Well, you know, you raise a good point. The truth of the matter is, it is not legal to hire an illegal alien and people need to understand that. The requirement is that they show proof that they're here.
But again, I want to take us back to the key point here: We really need the federal government to do what the federal government does. Herndon is not the federal government. Prince William County is not the federal government and until they step up and do this job, Kitty, we are not going to solve the problem.
Look, it's kind of like a boat with a hole in it that's sinking. Until you plug the hole, you can't effectively deal with the problem. We must defend our borders.
PILGRIM: All right. Joel, let me ask you -- now, the council voted it down four to three, I believe. It comes up before the town council in two weeks. Do you expect to get this through, because they've basically rejected it, right?
MILLS: The planning commission did not make a favorable recommendation on this, but the town council will include additional public hearings. What we plan to do between now and those public hearings is digest a lot of the input we've received from members of the planning commission and members of the general public about the site, to make improvements. Because the consensus in our community, is the current situation at the site, at the 7-Eleven is simply untenable. That is the consensus in our community. Furthermore, the bulk of even our opposition, realizes a site is necessary.
PILGRIM: OK. Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much for coming on the program to debate it. Scott Lingamfelter and Joel Mills. Thank you, sirs.
MILLS: Thank you very much.
LINGAMFELTER: Thanks for having us.
PILGRIM: A new study fueling the debate over illegal aliens' access to using taxpayer-funded health care. The U.S. government report says most states do not check a patient's citizenship before seeing a doctor. Now, this report says the potential for illegal aliens' access to Medicaid is great. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Medicaid is a $300 billion-a-year health-care program funded by the federal government and individual states that's supposed to be limited to U.S. citizens. But only four states, New Hampshire, New York, Montana and Texas require Medicaid applicants to actually prove they are citizens.
According to a report by the Health and Human Services Department's inspector general, 47 states allow Medicaid benefits with a simple signed declaration of citizenship and most of those don't do any follow-up audits to determine if an applicant is telling the truth. That means the nation's largest public health program, offering everything from prescription drugs to long-term care, is vulnerable to fraud by illegal aliens.
MADELEINE PELNER COSMAN, PRES. MEDICAL EQUITY, INC.: It's a huge problem, because as a matter of fact, Medicaid is stunningly magnificently generous. What most American citizens cannot afford is given freely to the poor and the indigent who include this gigantic number of qualified aliens and also, illegal aliens.
WIAN: The inspector general's report did not seek to determine how many illegal aliens may actually be abusing the Medicaid systems. Some states such as Oregon and Arkansas, say the number is very small and federal officials say they don't believe it's a widespread problem. But in California, for example, pregnant illegal aliens are allowed to receive state-funded Medicaid benefits.
Now under a reform proposal, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger wants to shift most of those costs to the federal government. The lack of state control is largely the result of an effort to speed up the Medicaid application process.
The inspector general's report recommends closer state review of citizenship declarations by Medicaid recipients, but only after eligibility has been granted and only of a sample of the benefit recipients. The goal would be to determine if fraud by illegal aliens is a problem for Medicaid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, doctors in border states will tell you they don't need studies to know that it's a problem. Still, the federal government doesn't seem to be interested in requiring states to demand proof of citizenship for Medicaid -- Kitty?
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Well, at the top of the hour on CNN "ANDERSON COOPER 360." And joining us now with a preview is Heidi Collins -- Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank, Kitty.
Next on 360, al Qaeda blames the British prime minister for the London bombings. But was the terrorist group involved in the attacks? Matthew Chance reports on that.
Also, some astonishing video of an airliner evacuation. You may be surprised about what some people's priorities really are.
And summer safety, keeping safe around swimming pools and trampolines. I'll also ask Dr. Sanjay Gupta some questions about common summertime injuries. If you're a parent, you're certainly not going to want to miss this. Coming up at 7:00 -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Heidi.
Up next, crisis of conscience, a new prenatal test can tell if a baby is a girl or a boy in a matter of weeks. But some say that raises serious ethical concerns. Our special report is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now our special report, crisis of conscience. A ground-breaking new test can now tell parents-to-be whether they're having a boy or girl very soon after they discover they're expecting. However, the test is also raising alarming ethical concerns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Ann and Rob Thomas are expecting their first child and they want to know every detail about their baby, including if it is a boy or a girl.
ANN THOMAS, MOTHER-TO-BE: We wanted to get the baby's room all done. We wanted our family to find out.
PILGRIM: They purchased a $275 baby gender mentor kit online. The company says five weeks into the pregnancy, with a simple blood test, they can tell the gender of the baby.
SHERRI BONELLI, PREGNANCYSTORE.COM: So once you have the three samples of blood, just let it air dry for a half an hour. You would fill in your registration number. Put the protective envelope in the Fedex envelope and drop it off.
PILGRIM: With a private access code, the results are available online in two days.
A. THOMAS: Sure enough, about 8:00 one night, we had an e-mail that we were having a baby boy.
PILGRIM: They know months before the conventional gender test, like amniocentesis and sonograms. But medical ethicists worry that early gender testing could be misused.
DR. JEFFREY ECKER, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF OBGYN: We need to be concerned about any test that's focused just on determining sex early in pregnancy, not because most people will, but because the potential is there for minority of individuals to use that to select the sex of their baby.
PILGRIM: Selective abortion is a problem in some countries, but this test is only domestically distributed.
BONELLI: In other countries where certain genders are preferred, that may be a concern. But we firmly don't believe that that's going to be an issue here in the States.
PILGRIM: But for the Thomas family, who are just excited to know, the news could not be any better.
A. THOMAS: We have a very big family. And it's all girls. So out of seven grandkids and seven great grandkids, this will be the first boy in the family.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the company that has the patent for the kit says it's becoming very popular. They've had thousands of orders in the last month. Now for the moment, this test is only available in the United States. And although they have had requests to distribute it overseas, Accugender is not currently planning to ship internationally.
Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll, and a look at what's ahead tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now, The results of tonight's poll. 21 percent of you say the government should be responsible for preventing another massive blackout in the United States. 9 percent say business should be responsible. 71 percent of you say both government and business.
Well finally tonight, Judith Miller, the Pulitzer prize-winning "New York Times" reporter has now been in jail for 29 days for protecting her confidential sources in the White House CIA leak case.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow, the reality of CAFTA, one economist says the new so-called free trade agreement will do little, if anything, to benefit our country. The author of "America's Trade Follies" will join us.
And, is the new multi-billion dollar transportation bill a case of highway robbery? We'll have a special report on that.
And "Heroes," an American soldier who lost both of his legs in Iraq fights back and finishes a cross country bicycle ride. We'll have his remarkable story. Please join us.
For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now with Heidi Collins -- Heidi.
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