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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Nuclear Crisis; Arming the Enemy; Blocking Iran; Discovery Lands; Shield Law; Eminent Domain
Aired August 09, 2005 - 17:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, weapons from Iran are killing our troops in Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today issued a warning to Iraq. We'll have that special report.
Also tonight, national outrage over the Supreme Court's ruling that allows local governments to seize your property for private development. The state of Alabama says no way. The governor of Alabama is our guest here.
Also, while middle class Americans struggle to own a home, the state government of Illinois will provide money for mortgages for illegal aliens.
And the shuttle Discovery and its crew safely home tonight after a flawless landing at Edwards Air Force Base. I'll be talking with Kathryn Sullivan, the first female astronaut to walk in space.
We begin tonight with Iran's escalating nuclear program and the escalating confrontation with Europe and the United States. The U.N.'s Atomic Energy Agency held an emergency meeting today in Vienna, following Iran's resumption of critical nuclear processing. The United States and Europe are demanding that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons.
Walt Rodgers reports from Vienna.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Diplomats from the International Atomic Energy Agency waited barely 24 hours after Iran restarted its sensitive nuclear conversion program before signaling they would ask Tehran to rescind its action. At the Vienna headquarters of the IAEA, the Iranian delegation once again rejected British, French and German overtures to back down, insisting there is no reason not to continue for enriching uranium for reactor fuel.
There is international concern that Iran is secretly building a nuclear weapons capability. The Americans, for their part, say Iran's nuclear program must be kept transparent and peaceful.
GREG SCHULTE, U.N. AMBASSADOR: Iran must not be allowed to violate its international commitments and must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. RODGERS: Iran, defying much of the international community, restarted its uranium conversion program at their Isfahan nuclear installation on Monday. International Atomic Energy Agency cameras are overseeing the process amid growing concerns in Europe and America the Iranians may opt to secretly produce weapons-grade uranium for bombs.
But as the world marks the 60th anniversary of the American nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the second world war, the Iranians are defiant.
CYRUS NASERI, IRANIAN DELEGATION HEAD: The United States is in no position whatsoever to tell anyone and to preach to anyone as to what they should or should not do in their nuclear program.
RODGERS: The director general of the IAEA is appealing for restraint, insisting there must be a negotiated resolution of this crisis.
MOHAMED ELBARADEI, IAEI DIRECTOR GENERAL: I would hope that this is simply a hiccup in the process, and not a permanent rupture.
RODGERS (on camera): If Iran is truly determined to develop nuclear weapons, there seems little diplomacy can do to prevent it. In the meantime, pressure seems likely to build to haul Iran before the United Nations Security Council with a threat of sanctions, unless it stops that nuclear conversion process.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, Vienna.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: President Bush from his ranch in Crawford, Texas, today repeated that he is deeply suspicious of Iran's nuclear ambitions. The president said Iran could face international sanctions if it fails to cooperate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is important for the Iranians to understand that America stands squarely with the EU-3, that we feel strongly the Iranians need to adhere to the agreements made in the Paris Accord. And that we will be willing to work with our partners on -- in dealing with appropriate consequences should they ignore the demands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And Iran has ignored demands from Europe. Iran rejecting European proposals to end its nuclear program.
President Bush said today he has reason to believe that Iran will negotiate. The president did not further elaborate.
Iran is not only confronting the United States and Europe over nuclear weapons, but it is also mounting a serious challenge to U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. Senior U.S. officials today said American and Iraqi troops have seized a shipment of sophisticated bombs from Iran in southern Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today issued a cryptic warning to Iraq.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the latest worry about the Iraq insurgency, the Pentagon has confirmed Iran is now smuggling weapons into Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It is true that weapons clearly, unambiguously from Iran have been found in Iraq.
STARR: Military officials tell CNN Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is talking about a truckload of explosives seized recently at a border checkpoint. Explosive devices more sophisticated than the improvised explosive devices, IEDs, so many have come to fear on the streets of Iraq.
U.S. intelligence officials believe the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, but not the central government in Tehran, may be behind it. Either way, Rumsfeld is furious.
RUMSFELD: If one sees it there on the ground, you identify it, it's from Iran, and you don't know who brought it in, or who tolerated it being brought in, who facilitated it to be brought in, who sold it to someone to take in to bring in, what you do know of certain knowledge is the Iranians did not stop it from coming in.
STARR: This as the insurgency continues its march of violence. News agency video from a U.S. military drone showing insurgents scrambling after firing mortars, trying to escape attack by U.S. forces in Haditha a few days ago. But they didn't get very far.
As the violence continues, General Richard Myers says the insurgency retains much of its punch.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS: And their capacity has stayed about the same in terms of numbers of incidents, particularly the number of incidents that have any effect: wounding people, killing people, be they coalition or be they Iraqis or whatever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And Lou, the Pentagon now confirming that that roadside bomb that killed 14 Marines in Haditha last week was made up of three mines wired together. There are suspects in custody being questioned in relation to those Haditha attacks -- Lou.
DOBBS: Barbara, let me turn to the briefing this afternoon. As I watched you and your colleagues there, the tone is becoming more contentious in those briefings, particularly focusing on the draw-down of U.S. troops and the readiness of Iraqi troops. Is that also your sense, that there is more deflection from the Pentagon and more assertion on the part of the press corps?
STARR: Well, it's difficult to say from the front row of the briefing room, I suppose. But what I do think is going on is that the questions the press are asking clearly are reflective of what the American public is interested in, and wants to know.
When are U.S. troops going to come home? What exactly is the position of the Bush administration? So, of course, we continue to ask.
Perhaps one thing that's very interesting to reflect on is that what you don't really hear is administration officials talking about decisive American military victory against the insurgency, against those who have killed American troops. The strategy remains unchangeable, unshakable, and remains the same, that it will not be U.S. military power that defeats the insurgency, but that it will be political progress, economic progress in Iraq, and those Iraqi security forces who will in the long term have to be the ones that defeat the insurgency.
That is in fact the Bush administration policy. No one here deflecting from that point of view from the podium -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nor answering directly or with any specificity as to when U.S. troops will be able to return home, nor when the Iraqi troops will be ready to lead the fight against the insurgency.
Barbara Starr. Thank you very much.
STARR: Certainly.
DOBBS: Donald Rumsfeld's cryptic warning today reflects the Bush administration's rising frustration with Iran's defiance. The United States is considering a series of measures to step up the pressure on Iran, and it appears the State Department may deny a visa for the new Iranian president to attend a U.N. meeting next month.
Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Iran's new hard line president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has applied for a U.S. visa to come to New York in September to address the U.N. General Assembly. But the U.S. State Department says he may not get that visa for very good reasons: terrorism. Former hostages from the 1979 U.S. embassy crisis in Tehran have said they recognize him as one of their captors.
ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPARTMENT: What's been said is the president was a student leader and involved in -- in the events. What hasn't been determined is, was he actually a hostage-taker, and at the scene?
PILGRIM: The United States, as host country to the General Assembly, has the legal obligation to allow heads of state to come to the U.N. Even such controversial leaders as Fidel Castro, Nikita Khrushchev.
But Palestinian Liberation Organization leader Yasser Arafat was denied a visa to address the General Assembly in 1988 because of his links to terrorism. Barring Iran's new president would be a clear U.S. statement to Iran on a number of levels.
PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: This could have some influence on negotiations over the Iranian nuclear program. But I think this is another issue. This is a matter of principle. If he was involved in this, would be considered to be a criminal.
PILGRIM: The United States has put a 25-mile travel restriction on diplomats from countries that are a security concern, such as Iran, Cuba, North Korea, and in the past the Soviet Union. Iranian diplomats were expelled last year. Two security guards at Iran's U.N. mission were thrown out of the country for repeatedly taking suspicious photos around New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the U.S. State Department said today the visa application is under review. An interagency investigation continues to look into it. And they emphasize there's no deadline. They'll take as long as they like to make the decision. And the clear implication, the pressure is on Iran for activities for both past and present -- Lou.
DOBBS: And while this may be unprecedented in terms of denying a visa, it is also probably questionable as to whether it is a sufficient response if Iran is indeed providing bombs to Iraqi insurgents that are killing Americans.
PILGRIM: The tone out of the State Department today was unusually stern. I think that they are definitely drawing a line on this.
DOBBS: Kitty Pilgrim. Thank you.
When we continue here, the White House economic team says it's doing a good job. This as the president's economic poll numbers sink to the lowest levels ever. Tonight, why Americans apparently don't trust this government on economic issues.
And tonight, one state government is spending millions of dollars so illegal aliens can receive home mortgages, privileges denied to many American citizens.
And Eileen Collins and her crew bring the shuttle Discovery safely and successfully home. But the success of the Discovery doesn't answer all the questions about the future of the American space program. Miles O'Brien reports live from the Kennedy Space Center here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, the economy continues to grow, and unemployment remains at low levels. Many Americans, nonetheless, question the health of the economy. In fact, President Bush's poll numbers on the economy are at the lowest level ever. That amid stagnant wages, rising healthcare costs and soaring gasoline prices.
President Bush gathered his economic team in Crawford, Texas, today to declare the American economy is doing well. Elaine Quijano reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President Bush says the economy is strong but acknowledges challenges lie ahead.
BUSH: We're more concerned about energy prices and healthcare prices. Those are the two areas that we see as having a greater effect on potential economic -- you know, on the growth.
QUIJANO: With his top domestic advisers at his side, the president also focused on the positive: job growth, including more than 200,000 new jobs in July, inflation contained at 2 percent for core items, not energy or food, though, and deficit reduction ahead of his promised schedule. Mr. Bush crediting his administration's initiatives for moving the economy ahead.
BUSH: My policies allow more Americans to keep more of what they earn, to have more control over their daily life from healthcare, to education, to their retirement.
QUIJANO: But recent polls show the president's approval ratings both on the economy and overall have dropped, way down by concerns over the mounting death toll in Iraq and high prices at the gas pump. And the president hasn't won any ground on what was to be his signature domestic initiative this term: reforming Social Security. Yet, he's not giving up, calling on Congress to take up the issue when members return in the fall.
BUSH: Social Security is a -- is a -- is a liability that it needs to be addressed now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Tomorrow, the president again tries to keep the focus on what he sees as positive economic news, traveling to Illinois to sign the highway bill. It will be the fourth event of the president's working vacation as the president works to boost his falling approval ratings -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, thank you very much. Elaine Quijano.
The Bush administration may be optimistic about the economy, but millions of middle class Americans, nonetheless, suffering in what should be good economic times. Surveys show middle class Americans believe Washington is instead rewarding big business, and at their expense.
Lisa Sylvester has one man's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Bill Walters worked in the information technology sector for 18 years. But when the tech bubble burst, he was out of a job. He's now hanging cabinets.
Walters is the picture of the American worker left behind in the age of globalization, unable to get a job in his field. The economic statistics may show a growing economy and robust job growth, but Walters hasn't seen it.
BILL WALTERS, FORMER TECH WORKER: Because it's been a constant struggle since I was laid off. It's been a constant -- it's been a struggle for over four years now for me and my family. I've got a daughter in college now. And it's just -- it's a constant struggle month to month to try to -- to try to make a living.
SYLVESTER: Walters' pay was cut, his benefits shrunk, his 401(k) plan depleted. His story is echoed across the country and highlights a real disconnect between Washington lawmakers and middle class America.
According to the Economic Policy Institute, wages from April to June grew 2.4 percent, compared to the same time last year. But inflation rose even more, 2.9 percent. American families are trying to stretch their paychecks to cover rising housing costs, gas prices and healthcare.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: This is a recovery that's been very kind to profits, but pretty tough on compensation. So for those working families that depend on their paychecks and much less on investment income, they're the ones that have been pinched the most.
SYLVESTER: Bill Walters falls into that group: highly educated and skilled, and underemployed. He says Washington lawmakers need to be more honest, and to talk to working people, because it's not his job on the line anymore, it's theirs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Treasury Secretary John Snow has acknowledged that the economic recovery is not spreading to all income groups. His answer is more education. But the numbers show even college graduates are seeing stagnant wages and flat employment as more jobs move overseas -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. Lisa Sylvester, from Washington.
Coming up next here, one state spending millions of dollars to help illegal aliens buy homes. Our special report on new privileges for illegal aliens while American citizens struggle to achieve the same privileges. And then the shuttle Discovery lands safely. A great success in 14 days in space. But there are unanswered questions about the future of our space program.
I'll be talking with the first American woman to walk in space. Astronaut Kathryn Sullivan is our guest here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Surging home prices another burden for middle class families. Now a new study finds the wages of working men and women in this country aren't coming close to keeping up with housing prices.
The Center for Housing Policy says, in fact, the median price for a home in this country jumped 20 percent over the last 18 months. The price, $225,000. In that same period, income for teachers, nurses, firefighters, police officers and other positions grew little, if at all.
While working Americans are struggling to keep up with higher home prices, illegal aliens are signing up for new mortgages in record numbers. Now one state, Illinois, is spending $15 million to help illegal aliens buy homes.
Christine Romans has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Illegal aliens in Illinois may soon get access to low-interest home loans with the help of the state. Following the success of Wisconsin's illegal alien mortgage program, administered at banks like this one, Illinois plans a $15 million state program for low-income people who can't get conventional credit. With cell phone and rent records and an IRS tax I.D. number, illegal aliens can use the program.
A spokesman for the Illinois Housing Development Authority declined a request for an on-camera interview, but said, "We don't see it as an illegal immigrant story. This is vulnerable population outreach."
But critics say state agencies are rewarding people who break federal immigration law.
SUSAN TULLY, FAIR: They're sending the message to illegal aliens that we know you're violating federal law, but we're going to make it easy for you. And so it actually pits one government agency, instead of lawmakers, against another set of lawmakers, meaning the federal government, and INS -- or ICE, I'm sorry -- enforcement of the United States.
So what you have here is a conflict. And it's like, you know, is anybody really serious about this? ROMANS: The National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals says more than 216,000 illegal aliens are eligible to buy homes nationwide.
GARY ACOSTA, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION HISPANIC REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS: We don't really view it as a reward. These individuals aren't getting keys as they cross the border. There's nothing really that differentiates them from other people who have to qualify for these loans and repay them.
ROMANS: The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp says it is aware of these programs and encourages lending to the entire Latino market. So far, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will not repurchase these loans. And the Federal Housing Administration will not insure homes to illegal aliens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The many contradictions of federal immigration policy. While some agencies endorse loans to illegal aliens, others so far some concerned about the risk. But that's not stopping lenders.
In Chicago alone, 10 institutions are now lending to illegal aliens. That market now $100 million in loans to illegal aliens just in the city of Chicago. And now the state government getting into the game as well. Details still a little sketchy, but it looks like $15 million, and they'll unveil it sometime -- sometime in September or October.
DOBBS: And all of this in clear violation of federal immigration law, federal banking regulations, as well, by the way, and nonetheless, the state of Illinois and other states as well pursuing much the same path.
ROMANS: Two states now, Wisconsin and Illinois, their housing authorities. A lot of folks think California might be next.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Christine Romans.
Coming up next here, a predawn landing for the space shuttle Discovery in the Mojave Desert. Astronaut Kathryn Sullivan is our guest. We'll be talking about the success of Discovery and what's next for NASA.
And the governor of Alabama, Bob Riley, says the government has no right to seize your home for private development. The Supreme Court says the opposite. The governor's leading the fight to restrict eminent domain in his state. We'll tell you about national outrage and what's being done.
And a new challenge for Christopher Reeve's widow, Dana Reeve. She cared for her husband for years, now she's suffering from a life- threatening disease herself.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The crew of the space shuttle Discovery is safely back on Earth tonight after a flawless early-morning landing in California. NASA now will turn its focus to the future of the entire shuttle program.
Miles O'Brien tonight at the Kennedy Space Center -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it's now been 10 hours since that predawn landing at the Edwards Air Force Base. The weather not good for the landing this morning, not good now, as a matter of fact. That's why we're inside here.
Eileen Collins, after a journey of five-and-a-half million miles, 219 orbits, brought back the space shuttle Discovery effortlessly. Her crew of six along with her. Kind of an eerie sight there as she kissed the runway there at Edwards Air Force Base.
It was the end of a harrowing period of time at NASA. Two-and-a- half years since the loss of Columbia. Most everyone holding their breath as Discovery streaked across the southern Pacific at that point where the maximum heating occurred, the point where two-and-a-half years ago Columbia and her crew of seven were lost.
But after "wheel stop," the term that NASA had hoped for and wished to hear for so long, the crew spent a little bit of time doing what they customarily do after a shuttle lands, walking around, sort of figuratively kicking the tires. Soichi Noguchi and Steve Robinson spent some time at the nose of the craft, taking a look at the repair job they did.
The rest of the crew near the main landing gear, taking a look at some of those 20,000 thermal tiles that protect the Discovery, and protect an orbiter as it comes in for a landing. In this case, doing the job just fine.
What was the primary goal of this flight? Well, to do the flight, and do it successfully. Listen to Eileen Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EILEEN COLLINS, DISCOVERY COMMANDER: It's been two-and-a-half years since Columbia, and we have worked very, very hard to do the right things, and to make sure that we didn't miss anything. We did miss some things. And you know about that. But we're learning. And we're going to go back and fix those things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: She's talking about that big piece of foam that fell off the external fuel tank of Discovery about two minutes after launch. NASA spent about two-and-a-half years trying to fix that problem. Now they're back to the drawing board, trying to determine why that foam fell off, and what kind of fix could be required, what sort of delay might be involved. In spite of that, and that is a big asterisk, the scene here at the Kennedy Space Center, and, for that matter, all across the NASA empire, was one of jubilation. Take a look.
This is the scene in the press room here at the Kennedy Space Center when they heard that term wheels stop. Shortly thereafter, a group of about 170 people here were tasked with getting on a charter aircraft to join the 78 people already dispatched out to Edwards Air Force Base, to begin the long process of getting Discovery ready for a flight back to the Kennedy Space Center.
Ideally, they'd like to bring the orbiter back here where the hanger is, where the processing is done. This whole process of getting the shuttle back costs in excess of $1 million and a week-long hit to the schedule.
That does make that September launch of Atlantis highly unlikely. It already had a problem because of that concern about the external fuel tank, but Discovery is set to be the so-called rescue mission orbiter for Atlantis and this week-long delay would probably put it in a position where it wouldn't be ready to do just that. So, I think it's safe to say, a September launch is highly unlikely at this point -- Lou?
DOBBS: The entire NASA team, Miles, still -- now that everybody's celebrating the success of Discovery, still has a lot of hard work to do before returning to space with the next launch, as you say, Atlantis.
Miles O'Brien, terrific coverage from a very early start this morning to this evening. We thank you very much. From the Kennedy Space Center.
Joining me now from Columbus, Ohio, former NASA astronaut, Kathryn Sullivan. She is the first woman astronaut to walk in space; a veteran of three shuttle missions. Kathryn, it's good to have you with us. You have to feel awfully good tonight about what Eileen Collins and her crew and Jim Kelly and the Discovery accomplished.
KATHRYN SULLIVAN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Well, I do, Lou. I feel good as an American, just watching this great accomplishment that our country still has the ability to do. Every space flight is a lot of hard work. It may look effortless, but it only looks effortless because of incredible talent and diligence.
And obviously as a member of the so-called alumni association. I'm proud of the team, proud of the way they performed. Grateful for the good work that made this one come out so well and gave us some lessons, some learning to do. Also, some new data to take forward to next flights.
DOBBS: I was struck today -- and I wonder, Kathryn -- I was struck by Eileen Collins' just utter confidence as she responded to mission control. Also, during the press conference, the way she set forward her responses so directly. I was impressed by pilot Jim Kelly, as he expressed some human concerns and admiration for the crew of Columbia, that had sacrificed in order that they would be able on this mission, to begin to inspect the orbiter, to be prepared to correct problems that did occur on launch and possibly in space. What was your reaction?
SULLIVAN: You know, very much the same thing, Lou. Throughout the entire flight, whether it was the crisp cadence and coordinating and reminding each other how they were going to do things during the robotic sequences, similar kind of precision and crispness of communication and technical accomplishment during the space walks or their bearing as human beings, who are part of this incredible enterprise that is still in its infant stages for humankind, called space flight.
Eileen Collins, anyone who's known her for more than about 32 seconds, knows this is an incredibly fine human being, a superb technical professional and an absolutely superb leader as well. It's great to know her and very -- makes all of us, I'm sure, very proud to watch her in action, but that's just Eileen Collins all the way through to the core.
DOBBS: And as Jim Kelly said today, they sit atop the pyramid that is NASA, depending upon the work, the commitment of so many wonderful people at NASA, but so much work now still remains to be done, because although Discovery has returned us to flight, we still have a great deal to do.
We don't even know the future of shuttle. We don't know the future mission for NASA. Give us your best -- your best instinct as to what the future holds for the American space program.
SULLIVAN: Well, I'll give you an answer that's a combination of instinct and analysis with my own personal hopes. I am one of the people who believes in the value to humankind and nations of great quests. So, I'll tell you right up front, I'm one of the people who thinks it's important that humans go, that we ourselves are part of the endeavor and that we stand up to the even greater technical challenges that have to be surmounted to make that so.
I think Miles said it right in his package, the addition of the ferry time back from Edwards certainly makes a September target date for Atlantis quite problematic, maybe out of reach.
They'll put every single effort possible into making the November window, if at all possible. There are things to learn out of this flight. There's a lot more data from which to extract those lessons and I was pleased by what I saw during this mission as a notably different posture, a notably different mindset on the part of the NASA folks, sometimes even getting at odds with the media commentary, that told me they really are doing a much better job of remembering we're flying a test airplane here.
At the end of every test flight -- we can think back to SpaceShipOne last October -- you don't right away announce that you're flying again at noon tomorrow. You take stock of what happened. No design ever works exactly as you intended it to. That doesn't mean don't set exacting standards. Harvest all that and then take stock of when you can go fly again.
DOBBS: Well, I thought it was interesting, too, as the announce came over it -- I don't know what your reaction was, talking about a great experimental flight from the NASA announcer -- But the fact is, a great deal has been accomplished here. As you talk about the role of the human being in space flight -- and I couldn't agree with you more, I think it's madness to ever think that robotics would somehow be a substitute for human exploration -- the great thing is that Michael Griffin seems to be a person, a leader for NASA; the NASA administrator who is insisting on that direction.
And there was also a great difference in the way in which the great -- the terrific people at NASA and their various teams, were interacting. There was less bureaucratic, if you will, divides established and it was apparent over the course of the past year as we moved toward this launch. What are your thoughts on that?
SULLIVAN: I couldn't agree with your perceptions more, Lou and one of the key moments that I felt really confident of how true that was: So quickly after seeing a piece of debris come off the tank, the administrator declares shuttle flights are suspended, just in case anyone had any doubt. And what that does, is shift the burden of proof from the foot of someone responsible for thermal protection system, who might want to say, 'hey, I'm not sure I understand this well enough. I don't think we're safe to fly."
A monkey is off of that guy's back. The burden of proof now lies on proving that it is safe and that really compels you to dig in and harvest all of the lessons from this flight and to be sure you not only understand them, but they've been sufficiently communicated and understood everywhere else in the technical circle; that all those lessons really will pay the full load of fruit that they should pay.
DOBBS: And we again thank you for being here. And again, congratulations to Eileen Collins and Jim Kelly, the crew of Discovery on a great, successful mission.
SULLIVAN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Today's quote of the day comes from former U.S. Senator NASA astronaut John Glenn. Glenn said on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," that young Americans need to be inspired once again, about science and space.
John Glenn said quote, "...Back in those days of the Cold War, we started this whole program on math and science in the schools. We need that now. We're being challenged more competitively in this time of globalization than ever before. We need that kind of inspiration now."
The crew of Discovery, certainly providing much of that needed inspiration with that 14-day mission. Later here, I'll be talking with the new president of the American Bar Association about protecting the First Amendment rights of journalists who need to protect their confidential sources. We'd like to know what you think about that critical issue. Should there be a federal shield law for journalists who protect their confidential sources? Yes or no, please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.
Tonight, Dana Reeve, the woman who inspired people around the world with her care for her late husband, Christopher Reeve, is facing her own crisis. Dana Reeve announced today she is being treated for lung cancer. Deborah Feyerick is here now with a report. Debra, this is just an unbelievable development.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's terribly, terribly sad and Dana Reeve has been so much in the public eye fighting for stem cell research on behalf of her husband. Well, today she asked for privacy as she fights her own fight. This one, against lung cancer.
The 44-year-old mother and actress felt compelled to go public after the "National Inquirer" broke the story of her illness. She released a statement today, saying she is being treated. It's not clear when treatment began or how long it will last, but she says she and her doctors are optimistic about the prognosis and that quote, "I hope before too long to be sharing news of my good health and recovery. Now more than ever I feel Chris with me as I face this challenge. As always, I look to him as the ultimate example of defying the odds with strength, courage and hope in the face of life's adversities."
Now, Dana and Christopher Reeve had been married just two years when he was thrown from a horse and paralyzed. Together, they created the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation and together, they campaigned tirelessly for stem cell research in the hopes that doctors might find a cure so he could walk again.
Well, he died last year after slipping into a coma. Her mother died early this year, surgical complications from ovarian cancer, according to one report. Dana Reeve is not a smoker, nor was her husband. Together, the couple have a 13-year-old son -- Lou?
DOBBS: The adversity she has faced -- she and her family. We wish her all the best. Deborah, thank you very much.
Coming up next here, protecting your property from government seizure. Alabama taking on a controversial U.S. Supreme Court ruling allowing eminent domain to be used by cities that want to take property for private development. Governor Bob Riley says that's not going to happen in his state. He's our guest here.
And will Saudi Arabia's new leadership do anything to stop high- level funding for radical Islamist terrorists? The author of an important book is our guest here, coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Alabama's taking on what has become a controversial U.S. Supreme Court ruling on the government's right to seize your home. The Supreme Court ruled in June that local governments can seize private property for the purpose of private development. The state of Alabama quickly passed a law that protects private land from such seizure. Delaware has a similar law. And there are now movements in more than a dozen other states to pass similar legislation.
I'm joined now by the man who signed Alabama's new law. Governor Bob Riley joins us from Montgomery. Governor, what bothered you the most about the Kelo ruling, the Supreme Court ruling permitting this?
GOV. BOB RILEY (R), ALABAMA: Well, Lou, I think it's one of the worst rulings this court has ever brought down. You said a moment ago, it's controversial. It's not controversial in Alabama. It's just absolutely wrong. And if you look at the vote that we had in the House and the Senate down here to change that, it was unanimous. There was not one dissenting vote.
And I think you're going to see more and more of this all across the country.
I read the other day, I think there's 23 other states that are trying to enact their own property rights laws in their states today.
DOBBS: One of the things that the Supreme Court, as you well know, said is that the city has carefully formulated a development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including but not limited to new jobs and increased tax revenue. I mean, that is as bizarre, whether for lawyers or not, I mean, that is a bizarre piece of reasoning.
RILEY: Well, it's not only a bizarre piece of reasoning, it is absolutely wrong. One of the things that made this the greatest country in the world is our belief that when you work hard and you buy a piece of property, it's going to be protected. The last thing the government needs to do is try to take that away from you to expand a tax base.
What the government should be doing is protecting those private property rights, and that's simply what we've tried to do.
DOBBS: Well, you know, Governor, I don't know if you appreciate the irony, I certainly do, that the United States government is sitting here talking to China about creating some respect for contract law and property rights; at the same time the United States Supreme Court is knocking down, diluting in effect, property rights in this country.
RILEY: Well, yeah, but they went so far on this. If you read the dissent, what Sandra Day O'Connor said is absolutely true, there's not a piece of private property anywhere in the United States that's not subject to seizure under this new law.
DOBBS: Right. RILEY: That was never what the founding fathers had intended. They said, use this property for public use, not to improve the general welfare of the public.
I think that you're going to see more and more states do exactly what Alabama did. It just so happened we were in a special session, and we could address it immediately. I think when most of these legislatures go back into session, you're going to see more and more of the states go back and do exactly what the Supreme Court told us to do. This -- they said that this does not preclude any state from going in and setting their own remedies. I think you're going to see that all across this country.
DOBBS: Well, certainly in the state of Alabama, Governor Bob Riley, good to talk with you. Let me ask you quickly, we're out of time, do you think this will stand up to Supreme Court review, your new law?
RILEY: Oh, there's absolutely no doubt. Again, the Supreme Court said that this does not preclude the state from stepping in and putting additional restrictions.
DOBBS: Governor Bob Riley, thank you for being here.
RILEY: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: At the top of the hour here on CNN, "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Here's Anderson to tell us all about it -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Lou, thanks very much. Yeah, in 15 minutes, on "360," one day after losing Peter Jennings to lung cancer, Dana Reeve, wife of Christopher Reeve, announces she has the disease. The question is, how did she get it if she wasn't a smoker? 360 MD Sanjay Gupta on how it's not just cigarettes that can cause lung cancer.
Also ahead tonight, some jurors in the Michael Jackson trial are speaking out. Now they say they think Jackson's guilty, and they claim they wanted to convict him all along, but were bullied by other jurors into an acquittal. They are also convinced some of the witnesses took payoffs from the prosecution. It's pretty strong stuff. We're going to talk to Jackson's attorney Thomas Mesereau about their claims. That's next on 360 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bullied jurors. Quite a story.
COOPER: Who knew, yeah.
DOBBS: Anderson, thanks. Look forward to it.
Still ahead, the war against radical Islamist terrorists. My next guest says that war will be lost if we do not cut off the money to radical Islamists.
And the American Bar Association fighting to protect your right to know, defending journalists such as Judith Miller and confidential sources. The new ABA president is our guest here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, new concern that the fight against radical Islamist terrorists will never be won until the United States and other nations aggressively cut off terror funding. Rachel Ehrenfeld is the director of the American Center for Democracy, the author of the book "Funding Evil: How Terrorism Is Financed and How to Stop It."
Rachel, first, good to have you here. You say a main source of funding for radical Islamist terrorists is coming from Saudi Arabia. First, why does the United States permit that, and what can the United States do?
RACHEL EHRENFELD, AMERICAN CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY: Why is the United States permitting it is a good question. I guess there are many political -- other political issues involved, like oil, supply of oil, and they are not going to -- they don't want to destabilize the Saudi government.
The Americans should, and I think could, also demand that those who fund terrorism, never mind the royal family, those Saudi, very wealthy billionaires who are continuing to fund terrorism will stop, should be prosecuted, and they shouldn't fund terrorism anymore.
DOBBS: The Treasury Department -- I've talked with the leaders of the -- two leaders of the agency that is responsible for cutting off the funding of terrorism, the funding from this country. Why aren't they being more effective?
EHRENFELD: Because they are not getting a lot of cooperation from other countries. Even if you consider, for example, our best ally, England. The U.K. has not -- has not been only very, very lax in allowing terrorist incitement, but also in raising terrorist funds. Hamas and Hezbollah are still today -- before I came here, I checked the Web site that collect -- not only incite, but also collect funds, are continuing to be -- are continuing to operate.
DOBBS: And, of course, Iran is a principal source of funding for Hezbollah.
EHRENFELD: Absolutely.
DOBBS: This has been well known for a long time. We're talking about substantial amounts. We're talking about in excess of $100 million.
EHRENFELD: Per year.
DOBBS: And the fact is that it still continuing. One thinks of the United States, and England, and Europe as being sophisticated in matters of banking and finance, but they're unable to deal with this.
EHRENFELD: Well, because I think there is an unwillingness, there is lack of political will to identify those that fund terrorism. We have invested a lot of money in developing technologies in order to raise red flags when a suspicious transactions are going on, but there are so many transactions. There are less people that are actually funding terrorism and much easier to identify them. Also, we lack international agreements, and cooperations apparently don't work very well when it comes to money.
DOBBS: When it comes to money, lots of strange results occur. What should the United States do right now to -- we're talking about protecting America and American citizens.
EHRENFELD: America should, I think, put aside their political -- the political restraints that they have about certain Saudis, and put them on the terrorist list, and confiscate their fundings, and prevent Saudi charities and Saudi money from going to spread Wahhabism and terrorism around the world.
DOBBS: Rachel Ehrenfeld, we thank you for being with us.
Still ahead here, the results of tonight's poll. A look at what's ahead tomorrow.
Also, your right to know. Why protecting the First Amendment is so difficult these days. What one group is doing about it. I'll be talking with the new leader of the American Bar Association here next. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The ability for journalists to protect their confidential sources is critical for the public's right to know. But now, those First Amendment protections are being violated, it seems, each day. The imprisonment of "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller over the White House CIA leak is one example.
Today, the American Bar Association endorsed the passage of a federal shield law to protect the journalists and protect their confidential sources.
Joining me now from Chicago is Michael Greco. He is the new president of the American Bar Association.
Michael, the association has in the past voted against a shield law. What changed, and what was the difference in the decision this afternoon to pass support for such a law?
MICHAEL GRECO, PRESIDENT, ABA: Good evening, Lou. In the last year or two, there have been so many instances of journalists being subpoenaed and being forced to release confidential information, that the American Bar Association today urged Congress to adopt a federal shield law. We think the time is now to have such a federal law, which exists in 49 states throughout the country.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, Michael, is it in your judgment a likelihood that we're going to see Congress pass such legislation anytime soon? Even with the important, in fact critical support of your association, the American Bar Association? GRECO: The American Bar Association hopes that Congress indeed will do just that. The American people's right to have the free flow of information that journalists provide with the confidentiality protection is what sustains our democracy and our liberty. And I hope that Congress will understand that this is vital at this point.
DOBBS: One of the difficulties that I believe journalists suffer under, based on some of the e-mail that we receive here, some of the reaction from our viewers, is that many viewers and many people see this shield law as unnecessary protection for a journalist, that it somehow sets them apart from customary rights under the Constitution, when there are higher issues. For example, the Justice Department, in its written testimony on the shield law hearings, said it's bad public policy. I mean, how do you overcome that kind of assault, if you will, on basically the First Amendment?
GRECO: The First Amendment is not bad public policy. It is the fundamental protection that the people have to information that all of us in this country must have if we're to continue our democracy. So I don't agree with that position.
Without a shield law, Lou, reporters and journalists are at risk of having their sources invaded, and when that happens, sources will dry up, and journalists will not have that free flow of information, which then goes to the American people.
You're absolutely right, because the First Amendment is worth our protecting.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And Michael Greco, you have taken a first step, you've been president of the American Bar Association now for just about one hour...
GRECO: That's correct.
DOBBS: You've been pushing your support for this, leading that initiative in the Bar Association. We want to congratulate you for both accomplishment. We wish you all of the very best.
GRECO: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Judith Miller, the Pulitzer Prize-winning "New York Times" reporter, has now been in prison for 34 days, for protecting her confidential sources in the White House CIA leak case.
We thank you for being with us tonight. We hope you will join us here tomorrow. Organized labor is in crisis. A revolt in the nation's biggest labor organization. One Democrat with close ties to labor, the former House minority leader, Congressman Richard Gephardt, will be here to joins us. We hope you will as well.
For all of us here, thanks for being here tonight. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now -- Anderson.
COOPER: Lou, thanks very much.
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