Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Killer Quake; Snowstorm Slams Into Colorado; Spread of Mexican Consulates in the U.S.; Avian Flu and Western Europe; Possible Pandemic in Future; CIA Leak Probe; U.S.-China Trade Policy
Aired October 10, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
We begin tonight with what is turning out to be a massive natural disaster. At least 30,000 people have been killed in a tremendous earthquake in Pakistan. And 1,000 others are feared dead in Indian- controlled Kashmir. The death toll in both areas is certain to rise sharply.
As many as 5 million people tonight are homeless as a result of this powerful earthquake. Those survivors are struggling just to survive now in what is freezing weather. Powerful aftershocks are continuing to hit the earthquake region, slowing down efforts to rescue hundreds of thousands of people. The United States and other countries are sending huge amounts of aid. The United States has already committed $50 million and eight helicopters.
The 7.6 magnitude earthquake struck shortly before midnight Eastern Time Friday. The epicenter in a town near Balakot, about 90 miles from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. We begin our coverage tonight in Balakot, where many of the victims are children.
Bill Neely reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL NEELY, REPORTER, ITV NEWS (voice over): From a deep hole in what was a school comes a small body, a little girl in her uniform. Nobody knows her name, but they take her away quickly, because they have so many more to pull out -- hundreds.
There is a terrible reason why so many mothers are crying here. They have all lost their children. Some, all of them.
They sent them to school with kisses. Within an hour and in an instant, whole classes were dead.
The mountainside overlooking the small town of Balakot is the source of their pain. The school that was here is gone.
The fathers wait, but with little hope. Three hundred and fifty of their children are dead.
They have no heavy lifting equipment. The bodies are trapped. And not just bodies. The rescuers have heard voices. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are definitely -- there's some people alive there. And if I know children is there, I'm asking for help. And the collapse (ph).
NEELY (on camera): Five children?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I believe it's primarily school children.
NEELY: And what are they saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're asking for help.
NEELY (voice over): So they dig very carefully. But more often than not, it is far, far too late.
The whole town is in mourning. The bodies of its children crisscrossing the streets where they once played past the clock on a school wall, stopped at the very moment when their lives ended.
(on camera): The very epicenter of the earthquake was underneath this town about six miles below this school. About half of Balakot's children were killed. Many are still buried beneath this debris -- 10 schools in all, nursery, primary and secondary. Perhaps 700 children dead at least, but they're not really sure.
(voice over): The luckier parents hold their living children tightly, but a generation has been lost here. So today, with a final kiss, thousands left the destroyed town for a new life.
Bill Neely, ITV News, Balakot, Pakistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: In the midst of all of this destruction, there are at least some remarkable stories of survival. An 11-story apartment building in Islamabad collapsed when the quake struck three days ago. But incredibly, rescuers are still finding survivors in the wreckage.
Becky Anderson reports now from Islamabad. Becky, what is the situation there tonight?
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In amongst the rubble of this city apartment block, as you say, remarkable scenes earlier on today. The search and rescue team here, which is British, working alongside the Pakistani army, had heard voices yesterday. They rescued three people from this debris yesterday, but they heard voices. They heard the voice of a mother calling out for her child and asking how her child was. And in the past couple of hours, the rescuers here have pulled both that child and the mother from this rubble alive.
It's quite remarkable when you consider that these rescuers have been here now for 65 hours. You can see the utter devastation behind me.
You've got the heavy machinery now working away. It looks as if they're clearing it. But in fact, effectively what they're doing is shoring up what you see behind here. And in front, they're trying to pull the debris away.
And what they are saying at this point, Lou, is that there are possibly some 60 to 65 people still alive in amongst that rubble. We do know of 35 bodies that have been pulled out. Unfortunately, those people died. But the emergency services here at least suggesting that 100 people have walked away from the scene.
As I say, some 60 to 65 possibly still alive behind me.
Lou.
DOBBS: We will hope for the best in the midst of all of this devastation. Becky Anderson, thank you very much, reporting tonight from Islamabad.
The United States has already sent helicopters to help with the rescue operation impact. Those helicopters, five Chinooks and three Black Hawks, flew into Pakistan from their bases in Afghanistan. U.S. transport aircraft carrying relief supplies have also begun landing in Islamabad.
Each C-17 aircraft carries enough supplies for 2,500 families. Three more U.S. transport aircraft are expected to arrive in Pakistan tomorrow.
Hundreds of people are also feared dead in Guatemala after a massive mudslide buried an entire town. Fifteen hundred people reportedly killed in the town of Panabaj. As many as 500 people were killed elsewhere in Guatemala and Central America when Hurricane Stan hit the region five days ago. Searchers in Panabaj have found fewer than 100 bodies so far. Rescuers say there is virtually no hope of finding anyone alive under the mud. Only one government building and a few homes remain standing in the town.
Severe flooding in this country has killed at least 10 people. Torrential rains swept through states from North Carolina to New Hampshire.
The flooding in New Hampshire is the worst in a quarter century. Three people were killed in that state, 1,000 people evacuated their homes. Governor John Lynch declared a state of emergency. Five hundred National Guard troops are now helping with the rescue operation. The Red Cross has set up an emergency shelter.
Violent weather has also hit Colorado, killing at least one person. A powerful snowstorm cut off power for thousands of people and triggered rockslides across the state. Up to 20 inches of snow fell in the mountains. Forecasters say as much as four feet of snow could fall in some areas.
Sean Callebs is in Breckenridge, Colorado, with the report. Sean?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Lou, been very messy across this state over the past 24 hours. You're seeing the snow still falling down here, up where we are in the mountains. But really, the Plains to the east of Denver simply getting hammered at this hour. You talked about those power outages. Behind me you can see a large tree here in front of the old courthouse here in Breckenridge. Part of it broke off, simply overburdened by that heavy snow. And that's basically what has happened to power lines throughout this entire area.
We know that about 50,000 homes and businesses from Denver, up in the Rockies as well, lost power in the past 24 hours. Many of those businesses, homes have had power restored. What happened? The trees simply coming down on power lines.
Just to give you an idea, this is very, very thick, heavy snow. Usually up in this area they get the very light fluffy stuff that skiers are used to.
But want to take you now out to the roads east of Denver, I-70. A huge section of Interstate 70, about 170 miles, closed to traffic westbound, coming from Kansas, all the way to the Denver area. Authorities say they don't know when it is going to be reopened. The big concern, heavy snow is falling there right now.
Also, winds blowing through the Plains, causing big snowdrifts. I just got off the phone with the Department of Transportation here. They said very dangerous driving conditions. They are telling people to stay off of those roads for the hours to come.
Now, eastbound, the situation is a little bit better. It's closed from Denver on about a section of about 35 to 45 miles down to the area called Limon.
But still, it may seem like an early time for a storm to hit the Rockies. But we also checked with the National Weather Service, Lou, and they tell me that the average first serious storm hits the Rockies October 15. So while the rest of the country may be enjoying some summer-like conditions, people here in Breckenridge say once the first big snow hits the ground, it stays here.
And it's going to be here probably until May. However, there is not going to be any skiing, at least not here, because they don't bring the resort staffs for a week. So they're kind of driving those late-summer guests out early, and still not soon enough to bring the staff in for the skiers.
Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Sean Callebs.
Some born-again Christians believe the violent weather in this country and around the world could be signs that the end of the world may be near. The Reverend Pat Robertson, in fact, cites recent disasters from Hurricane Katrina to tsunamis to support the belief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. PAT ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN COALITION: I don't have any special word that says this is -- this is that, but it could be suspiciously like that. These things are starting to hit with amazing regularity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Pat Robertson is not the only prominent minister to suggest biblical links to recent disasters. But other religious authorities are reluctant to make any biblical link whatsoever.
Still ahead here, a brutal beating by police officers in the French Quarter of New Orleans. We'll have the latest for you.
And is the Mexican government helping illegal aliens break our laws? We'll have a special report on the rising number of Mexican consulates in this country, and their questionable role.
And as Karl Rove prepares to give testimony again in the White House-CIA leak case, we'll examine the latest twists in this escalating scandal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In New Orleans, three city police officers pleaded not guilty to assault and battery charges after a beating was caught on videotape over this weekend. An Associated Press Television crew taped officers beating a 64-year-old man in the French Quarter who they say was drunk, disorderly and who resisted arrest.
The police officers have been suspended from the force without pay. New Orleans Police officers have been accused of deserting the force after Hurricane Katrina, and looting stores. The head of the city's police department resigned last month.
A separate investigation is now under way into whether officers stole luxury cars from a local Cadillac dealership just before Hurricane Katrina struck the city. More than 150 cars, including two classic autos, were stolen. The police department claimed at first that those police officers took the cars for official use.
Meanwhile, President Bush is in New Orleans tonight. He's there meeting with state and local officials again on the Gulf Coast reconstruction effort. They're discussing efforts to get all hurricane victims out of shelters and into more permanent housing by the government's October 15 deadline. This is the president's eighth trip to the Gulf Coast region since Hurricane Katrina hit.
There is new evidence tonight that good-paying New Orleans construction jobs which should, of course, be going to out-of-work Gulf Coast residents are being filled by foreign workers. With most of New Orleans still abandoned, contractors are in a desperate need for workers, even if those workers are in the United States illegally, they say.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A steady flow of Hispanic workers is arriving in New Orleans to clean debris and repair houses and businesses. At least one job placement company has been actively importing foreign-born laborers. This flyer reads, "Add Mexican workers as part of your long-term workforce planning. Supply limited. Order now."
The ad directed at contractors is from Barton Rouge-based Accent Personnel Services, which is finding documented Mexicans for hire under the H2B visa program.
VIRGINIA PICKERING, THE ACCENT GROUP: The amount work that's necessary to be done is unprecedented. We're going to need more than we can have here. We have people coming from all over the United States to come down and help in this event, but even they are having trouble finding enough people to be here to work.
SYLVESTER: But critics are quick to slam the ad, saying it abuses the H2B visa program that is supposed to bring in foreign workers only if American workers are not available.
ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERS USA: It seems difficult to believe that in the wake of Katrina there are no American workers willing to do these jobs. And, of course, this is -- essentially, it sounds like a body shop that's renting out cheap workers.
SYLVESTER: The Davis-Bacon Act was waived, allowing companies to pay less than the prevailing or average wage in the rebuilding efforts. New Orleans is now a magnet for low-skill, low-wage employees.
Councilwoman Cynthia Willard-Lewis has two concerns, that some of the new workers may be illegal aliens and jobs are not being kept open for local residents.
CYNTHIA WILLARD-LEWIS, NEW ORLEANS CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: It's critical that the people who live in this city, who give it its heart, its soul, its spirit come back. And so it is essential that the jobs be there for them to return.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And the Reverend Jesse Jackson shares that same view. He's leading a caravan of buses bringing 600 New Orleans residents back to the city. They're scheduled to arrive here tomorrow around noon.
Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester. Thank you very much, reporting tonight from New Orleans.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe employers who hire illegal aliens to fill jobs in the Gulf Coast region should be fined, arrested, left alone, or awarded more cost- plus contracts? Cast your vote at LOUDOBBS.com. We'll bring you the results later here. Johnny Wilson of Hillsboro, California, made it into the record books today for a daring swim in San Francisco Bay -- a swim that raised money for Hurricane Katrina relief. Wilson swam the one-and-a- half-mile stretch between Alcatraz and San Francisco's Aquatic Park. He made the swim just before sunrise.
Now, many have completed the swim in the shark-infested waters before. But Johnny Wilson is now the youngest person to have accomplished the feat. Johnny is nine years old. He's in the fourth grade.
Wilson's swim raised $30,000 for Red Cross Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
Still ahead here, 46 Mexican consulates and counting. One for almost every state. Critics say Mexico is using its consulates to help win key rights for illegal aliens, advancing the cause of illegal immigration. We'll have a special report.
And avian flu closing in on Western Europe. The latest on the rampant spread of this potential pandemic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: There's rising concern tonight about the role that Mexican consulates may be playing on our nation's illegal alien crisis. Mexico has more consulates in the United States than any other country. And critics say Mexico is using its consulates to advance its political goals and its economic interests in direct violation of U.S. law.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The opening of Mexico's newest consulate in St. Paul, Minnesota, was hailed as an important bridge between two cultures. But with 46 consulates in the United States -- Canada has just 20 -- critics say Mexico is building a bridge too far.
Consulates are supposed to serve foreign nationals mainly by issuing passports and promoting trade and tourism. But in recent years, Mexican consular officials have lobbied federal, state and local governments in favor of driver's licenses for illegal aliens and against the enforcement of immigration laws.
HEATHER MACDONALD, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Washington is turning a complete blind eye to the aggressive behavior of the Mexican consulates. People have written letters to the State Department pointing out that the consulates now are objecting not only to the enforcement of immigration laws, but to the enforcement of any other kind of law that may have a disparate impact on illegal aliens. For instance, housing and fire codes in places like Long Island, where you have dangerously overcrowded conditions with illegal aliens piling up, you know, 150 to a house. WIAN: Mexican consulates in the United States are aggressively promoting and distributing Mexican consular identification cards. They're used mostly by illegal aliens to open bank accounts and access public services.
Since 2000, Mexico has issued nearly 5 million of the cards the FBI says are highly susceptible to fraud. The Mexican government even has mobile units that travel to cities without a consulate, helping get matricula consular cards into the hands of more illegal aliens.
RICK OLTMAN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: It is clear that the Mexican consulates, while it is their job to represent Mexico in this country, feel that it's their job to represent illegal alien Mexican nationals in our country and, rather than encouraging them to return home, helping them to stay in our country illegally. And once again, it's because it's about the money.
WIAN: Specifically, $20 billion sent home by Mexicans in the United States annually, now Mexico's number one source of foreign income. The Mexican government agreed to, then canceled our interview request. The U.S. State Department did not respond.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: But in a recent newspaper interview, a Mexican consular official in Colorado said the only thing preventing Mexico from opening many more consulates in the United States is money. And Mexico is getting more of that from the United States every year.
Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, this is a remarkable story, because these -- these consulates are operating clearly as advocacy centers and organizations, political organizations to support a group of people who are absolutely here illegally, and from which the government and the economy, obviously, of Mexico benefits immensely.
WIAN: There's a lot that is unprecedented about the U.S. relationship with Mexico and Mexico's influence here. This is just another example of the unprecedented nature of that relationship.
Lou.
DOBBS: It's an extraordinary amount of influence for a foreign government to have in this country. We thank you very much. Casey Wian.
Still ahead, new fears tonight that Western Europe could soon suffer its first cases of avian flu. I'll be talking with one of the most respected avian flu researchers in the country.
And what is being called the most unbalanced trade relationship in history. How the Bush administration is seemingly afraid to take tough steps against communist China to protect U.S. interests. That special report is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, the deadly bird flu continues to spread around the world. We are keeping track here of the movement of this mysterious and deadly disease from Asia, where it was first detected.
Tonight, officials in Turkey have confirmed they've discovered the disease in literally thousands of birds. Fifteen countries have now reported the disease in birds. Four countries in Southeast Asia have also reported the disease in humans. At least 60 people have now died from the avian flu.
U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt is traveling in Southeast Asia tonight, there working with health officials to coordinate a global response to a pandemic that he says is all but certain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL LEAVITT, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The likelihood of it happening is unknown to us, but we view this not as a short-term dilemma, but a long-term problem. There will be, at some point in the future, another pandemic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: My guest tonight has developed an experimental vaccine against the bird flu. Dr. Robert Webster of St. Jude Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, is one of this country's leading flu researchers. Thanks for being with us, Doctor.
Dr. Webster, Secretary Leavitt says that a flu pandemic will occur. The only issue is when. Do you agree with that assessment?
DR. ROBERT WEBSTER, ST. JUDE CHILDREN'S RESEARCH HOSPITAL: Absolutely. There will be a flu pandemic eventually. It may not be this year, next year. Sometime this century, there will be another flu pandemic.
DOBBS: And avian flu is particularly feared, of course, because of its virulence. Is it, in your judgment, certain that this will become a pandemic?
WEBSTER: The H5N1 bird flu is showing many characteristics that are very, very worrying. Since it first appeared in 1996, it has acquired the ability to kill tigers, spread in cats, and kill the wild birds, the migrating birds that it spreads in. It's also killed more than half of the humans that it infects. So these are the many characteristics that have us very worried that it could acquire that last characteristic of human-to-human transmission that it doesn't yet have.
DOBBS: Obviously, one of the things most critical in public policy terms is what the government can do to prepare for this pandemic and to make certain that its impact is as mitigated as possible. How close are we to being able to accomplish both goals?
WEBSTER: A long way off. There are many, many things still to do.
DOBBS: And with that distance between what we want to do and where we are, how do we stand with the vaccine that you've created? Where do we stand with creating new vaccines and a response by the medical community, the scientific community?
WEBSTER: The scientific work has been done on producing this vaccine or the next vaccine if this virus varies. Unfortunately, in the United States, the greatest technology country in the world, we do not have the capacity to manufacture our own vaccine.
DOBBS: Why is that?
WEBSTER: There is a problem. The manufacturers of this country are not interested. Many people say, ah, they're only interested in money. That is partly true, but the real reason is liability. Vaccines are not risk-free.
DOBBS: That's correct.
WEBSTER: There's always some risk associated.
DOBBS: So why doesn't President Bush, the leaders of Congress, pick up the phone, call U.S. pharmaceutical companies, and say we're going to deal with this, let's get moving.
WEBSTER: Indeed, last Friday -- if nothing else comes out of the bird flu and it doesn't occur, the meeting that Mr. Bush had with big Pharma last Friday is a very big step forward because the United States has to be able to produce their own vaccines in the future. And -- but the bottom line is that government has to take on responsibility for the liability. No company can take on liability.
DOBBS: Dr. Webster, we thank you for being here, we appreciate it.
And tonight, there are new questions about one U.S. official who could play a critical role in protecting this country against an outbreak of the deadly bird flu. The official is the assistant secretary for Public Health Emergency Preparedness. His name is Stewart Simonson. Critics are charging there is little, if anything in Simonson's background that qualifies him to hold such an important position.
Brian Todd reports from Washington. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Stewart Simonson is one of the top officials responsible for making sure the U.S. has enough vaccines and anti-viral drugs if an outbreak of the avian flu were to occur in the United States. Critics on the left compare Simonson to former FEMA Director Michael Brown, saying he's another administration crony not up to the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HENRY WAXMAN, (R-CA), COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM,: He has not had the kind of experience that I think is necessary to be the principal adviser on bio-terrorism and other natural disasters for the secretary of Health and Human Services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Before taking his current position, Simonson was a legal counsel and security adviser to then-HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson and had previously been a top official at Amtrak. Thompson vigorously defends his former aide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY THOMPSON, FMR. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The truth of the matter is that Stewart Simonson knows the subjects. He knows the science about these diseases. He knows how to get prepared. He is an extremely capable, competent, confident individual.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Contacted by CNN, HHS officials would not make Simonson available by on camera or telephone interview.
But, department spokeswoman Christina Pearson called the charge that Simonson is not qualified ridiculous. She says Simonson and the department have gotten high marks for the public health response to Hurricane Katrina. And she says during the 2001 anthrax scare Simonson was instrumental in cutting through red tape to get an anthrax vaccine into the national stockpile.
Lou.
DOBBS: And how was he instrumental in that?
TODD: Well, they say he is very good at manipulating the bureaucracy. He has the experience in Wisconsin. He was an adviser to then Governor Tommy Thompson on emergency preparedness issues and crime in prisons. He is a very skilled bureaucrat they tell us. And he can get around the red tape as he did in 2001 at a very crucial time.
DOBBS: Well, getting around red tape is not an inconsiderable talent. We thank you very much, Brian Todd.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Do you believe employers who hire illegal aliens to fill jobs in the Gulf Coast region should be fined, arrested, left alone, or awarded more cost-plus contracts? Cast your vote at LOUDOBBS.com. We'll have the results here in just a few minutes.
Coming up next, a high level leak in the White House. Karl Rove will testify once again before a grand jury investigating the White House CIA leak. That's next.
And then, settling old scores from the last administration. Why former FBI Director Louis Freeh says he was afraid to quit his job, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senate Judiciary Committee members say they may call James Dobson to testify at the confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Justice nominee Harriet Miers. Dobson is the head of the conservative evangelical group called Focus on the Family, who said on his radio program last week that he supports Miers because of assurances he received about her legal views, presumably on abortion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JAMES DOBSON, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: When you know some of the things that I know that I probably shouldn't know, that take me in this direction, you will understand why I have said with fear and trepidation, why I have said that I believe Harriet Miers will be a good justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Dobson admits to speaking with White House political adviser Karl Rove about Miers. The White House, however, denies that Rove gave Dobson any special information about Miers' judicial philosophy.
The grand jury investigating the White House CIA leak is expected to hear more testimony this week from presidential adviser Karl Rove. Rove's fourth visit to the grand jury is expected to be his last. His attorney today denied that Rove was part of any scheme to leak the identity of undercover CIA agent Valerie Plame.
Joining me now for more on this case is Jeffrey Toobin, and from Washington, Bill Schneider.
Let me begin with you, Jeffrey. What is the risk here and the impetus for Rove to be back before the grand jury after three previous appearances?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, he's obviously a suspect in this case. He's technically -- we don't know whether he's a target or not. But he certainly -- his behavior is under investigation.
Any prosecutor who has the opportunity to interview a suspect over and over again will do that. Suspects usually take the Fifth. That option is not available to Rove politically, if not legally. So, he's taking advantage of it. Each time he gets more information -- that is the prosecutor, Fitzgerald -- he asks Rove about it.
DOBBS: Politically, Bill Schneider, Karl Rove has been all but invisible around the White House and the president here of recent, in recent days. What are the political implications of what is happening here?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Enormous, Lou. The fact is he is the number two person in the whole Bush administration. His finger is in every pie. We just heard about his conversations with Dr. Dobson about the Harriet Miers investigation. He has authority over the reconstruction in the hurricane damage there is on the Gulf Coast. He was the architect of Bush's re-election campaign, and is very likely to play an important role or was very likely to play an important role in the strategy for the midterm elections in 2006.
He is the key political and now policy player as deputy chief of staff in the White House. If he's indicted and he has to leave, that will be a terrible blow.
TOOBIN: If there's any good news for Karl Rove in all of this, it's that the grand jury is set to expire on October 28. So, this bit by bit torture will end. He will either be charged by the end of October or he'll be cleared so this cloud, presumably if this grand jury in fact ends at the end of the month, will disappear, if there's no indictment.
DOBBS: Well, let's turn to James Dobson, saying as we just reported and as everyone heard there, that if one knew what he knows which he apparently isn't supposed to know, if I can roughly paraphrase Dr. Dobson -- what's going on? Should the Senate Judiciary Committee look into this view on Harriet Miers?
TOOBIN: I don't see why not because, you know, this is what happens when you have a nominee of virtually no public record. Every little hint of what she really stands for is going to be fair game for the Senate Judiciary Committee. If Dobson was told something about her views, say on abortion, senators of both parties are going to want to know that and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him subpoenaed and asked to testify before the Judiciary Committee.
DOBBS: Well, let me put it to you straightforwardly, Bill Schneider. Is there any likelihood that there's a misunderstanding here, that the effect of what Dobson said is, just, frankly, not true?
SCHNEIDER: I don't think there's any misunderstanding. I mean, he was clearly told something, and the Senate Judiciary Committee demands to know what it was he was told. It was some kind of reassurance to conservatives -- how specific, how detailed, we don't know -- about her reliability. Is it her view on abortion rights, on Roe v. Wade? That is something the committee would like to know. Both sides would like to know it. Conservatives would like to know it, because they want reassurances that she's committed to overturning Roe v. Wade. Liberals would like to know it, and Democrats, because they want to know if that's true also. Then they'll know how to vote if that's their concern.
DOBBS: Just like, apparently, James Dobson knows.
SCHNEIDER: Apparently he does.
TOOBIN: That's what he says.
SCHNEIDER: That's exactly right. If he knows and was told by the White House, more importantly, then they want to know.
DOBBS: With all that is going on with this White House, Jeffrey -- we're just about out of time -- but I want to ask both of you, quickly. This White House seems to have lost its balance and its keen political sensitivity here of late.
TOOBIN: Well, it's just -- it's got bad news that you can't spin out of. The war in Iraq is not getting better as far as anyone can tell. People keep dying.
DOBBS: (INAUDIBLE) the first administration that couldn't spin its way out of bad news (INAUDIBLE).
TOOBIN: And Hurricane Katrina, that's going to be a long slog at best. It's the news that's the problem, not the political operation.
SCHNEIDER: Oh, I think there's a lot to do with the operation. Look, a lot of chickens are coming home to roost, to use that old cliche -- scandals. Mr. Abramoff's role as a lobbyist, Tom DeLay, Bill Frist, the Karl Rove, the investigation of the CIA leak. A lot of these things are now coming home, and this administration has a lot of explaining to do.
But the biggest surprise of all to me was the disappearance of the president's base. His conservative base is in open revolt now over the Harriet Miers nomination. I think the president felt when he nominated her, he could hold his base in line by saying, trust me. And to his amazement, they're saying no, we don't trust you on this, and we have a lot of other grievances besides. That's a big blow.
DOBBS: Well, Bill Schneider...
TOOBIN: That, that, too.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you both.
This administration not the only one with, if you will, to quote the inestimable words of Bill Schneider, with chickens coming home to roost. The war of words between former FBI Director Louis Freeh and his former boss, President Bill Clinton, has escalated tonight.
Freeh's new book, called "My FBI," goes on sale this week. In that book, Freeh says Clinton's numerous personal scandals preoccupied his agency during his eight years on the job. Freeh said he would have quit, but he was worried about just who President Clinton would appoint to replace him. And Freeh says the president repeatedly failed to take the threat of global terrorism seriously. Freeh said on "60 Minutes" last night that Clinton was particularly negligent with his handling of the Khobar Towers terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia in 1996.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOUIS FREEH, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I was very disappointed that the political leadership of the United States would tell the families of these 19 heroes that we were going to leave no stone unturned, and find the people who killed them, to give that order to the director, because that's the order that I got, and then to do nothing to assist and facilitate that investigation -- in fact, to undermine it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) DOBBS: Clinton's former Press Secretary Joe Lockhart, says it's Louis Freeh who never took the threat of terrorism seriously. Lockhart says in a statement -- quote -- "He spent a lot of his time chasing political rumors and political scandals, when there were real issues, like the FBI computer system, the crime lab and the real terrorist threat."
In California today, embattled Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger welcomed a visit from one of his party's most popular politicians, Senator John McCain, campaigning with Schwarzenegger in one of California's most liberal cities -- San Francisco. The visit comes as Governor Schwarzenegger faces some of his lowest approval ratings since take office two years ago. Senator McCain praised Governor Schwarzenegger for a number of California ballot reform measures that he has proposed.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Linda Anthony of Auburn Hills, Michigan wrote in about the attention given to the fact that Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers is a woman. She writes: "Yes, I am extremely surprised about the focus on Harriet Miers being a woman. I'm with you 100 percent. Why on God's Earth in the 21st century are we still elated by a woman, Hispanic, black or any other minority being nominated, appointed, elected or placed anywhere? Clearly, America, we have not progressed nearly where we think we have, or need to."
Darrel Rowledge wrote to say: "The charge of cronyism is just political. And experience isn't necessary. Look at what a great job Brownie did at FEMA!"
And Lisa Lawson in Bowling Green, Ohio: "Being on the Supreme Court should not require on-the-job training."
Mark C. in Tampa, Florida wrote in about our broken borders, saying: "The sooner we rid America of the current corporate shills masquerading as our elected officials, the sooner we can obtain genuine border security."
And Robert in Chicago saying: "Lou, outsourcing is the best thing that's happened to American business since slavery!"
And Georgia in Murrells Inland, South Carolina, on the exporting of American manufacturing to China: "Aren't we working at cross- purposes? We shed American soldiers' blood for human rights, then export jobs to support non-democratic economies. In another time in the United States, any support of our enemy was called treason."
Send us your thoughts at LOUDOBBS.com. And each of us whose e- mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And you can also sign up for our e-mail newsletter on our Web site, loudobbs.com.
Still ahead here, the White House's quiet diplomacy with China. It's no match for China's games and unfair trade policies and well- considered strategies. Our special report, coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This just into CNN. The Justice Department and the FBI have launched a civil rights investigation into that brutal police beating that was caught on videotape in New Orleans. An Associated Press Television crew taping officers beating a 64-year-old African- American man in the French Quarter. They say he was drunk, disorderly and resisted arrest. Those police officers have been suspended from the force without pay, pleading today not guilty.
Treasury Secretary John Snow is in China this week, conducting financial diplomacy. The Bush administration seems to want to be careful, painfully careful not to push China too hard on its numerous issues. But critics say that while Washington maintains delicate diplomacy as a posture, China continues to play dangerous games.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Treasury Secretary John Snow prefers quiet diplomacy with China. He says, quote, "I think we'll be successful with quiet financial diplomacy. We have to respect the authority of the Chinese government."
Many wonder just what has this diplomacy achieved?
CAROLYN BARTHOLOMEW, U.S.-CHINA COMMISSION: I would say that the quiet diplomacy is really quite a failure. I know there are a few things that people like to point to as successful markers in all of this, but if you look at the facts and you look at the results, there really has been no progress made to date.
ROMANS: Consider the 2.1 percent currency revaluation in July. The Bush administration called it an important first step, while critics called it insulting.
And consider the nonexistent Chinese crackdown on intellectual property violations. Piracy costs American businesses a quarter of a trillion dollars a year. China's first, most vigorous and well publicized action against a DVD pirate was against an American. Beyond that high-profile arrest, few expect China's anti-piracy zeal to last. After all, 90 percent of the software in China is pirated -- experts say, even the software used by the Chinese government.
U.S. trade with China is the most unbalanced of any trade relationship ever, a deficit topping $200 billion. China has $711 billion in reserves and keeps strict capital controls for American investors.
China's cheap subsidized labor and artificially weak currency are fueling an export boom that is crippling industries and destroying American jobs.
Just in textiles, 20,000 American jobs have been lost this year to 1,000 percent surge in cheap Chinese imports. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: For all these reasons, the administration's record with China is a failure. Consider that the U.S. trade deficit with China was $3 billion at the time of the Tiananmen Square democracy protests. Critics say under any circumstance, this current balance sheet with China is not a success.
DOBBS: Not a success, that's almost a Washingtonian term. It's an abject failure that is likely to bankrupt the country is another way to put it. Christine Romans, thank you very much.
My next guests say U.S. trade policy with China is hurting American workers. And they're making an urgent appeal to save American jobs. Leo Hindery is the former CEO of TCI and AT&T Broadband. Senator Byron Dorgan joins us tonight.
What's the number one thing, gentlemen, needed to save American jobs, Leo?
LEO HINDERY, FRM. CEO TCI: Well, I think, Lou, it's pretty simple. The first thing is simply enforce with conviction and vigor the trade agreements we have in place. It's very clear that unaccounted for subsidy is digging this hole ever deeper and we're finding the subsidy much more even than the wage differential is causing the problems that are causing our jobs to be lost offshore. We're looking at a service and I.T. job disaster in the offing, in my opinion.
DOBBS: Senator Dorgan, you've worked on this issue for a very long time. You're more often than not called a protectionist. How do you respond to that?
SEN. BYRON DORGAN, (D) NORTH DAKOTA: Let me plead guilty for wanting to protect the economic interests of this great country. But I heard Secretary Snow and his comments. You know, look, that's all uninformed blather about this negotiation.
The fact is, we're being taken to the cleaners. The fact is, we have $2 billion a day that we're buying from abroad more than we're sending abroad. We have this giant deficit which means an export in American jobs.
And Lou, one interesting thing, I've tried I think now three times in the United States Senate to take the first baby step in the right direction, and that is to shut down the tax break that actually incentivize companies to move their jobs overseas.
Move your job overseas, we'll give a big fat tax break. What an unbelievably bad thing to do. And I can't get it done in the Senate by repealing that tax break.
DOBBS: Well Leo, as you know, the repatriation, estimated $200 billion expected to come back to U.S. multinationals from their overseas operations. Just a very light survey shows most of those companies aren't going to use that repatriated capital to create jobs, and in some cases they're going to use it to shut down jobs.
HINDERY: That's where Senator Dorgan has been on the forefront, Lou. Not only are we irresponsible in the tax policies that kept these profits offshore, encouraged the movement of jobs offshore, but then when we had the chance to bring the profits back home, we didn't link it with job creation here. So, we sort of shot both feet off.
And you are truly looking at a loss -- permanent loss of 10 to 15 percent of the existing job base over the next 10 years -- 10 percent conservatively, 15 percent by a lot of our estimations. That's something on 14 to 20 million jobs are going to be lost here in the next 10 years.
DOBBS: Senator Dorgan, what happened to your party? Your party once stood up for the American worker. Working men and women trying to family -- hold a family together, get their kids well educated. The Democrats backed away. One almost can say history, cursing the side of the Republicans are more interested in business. But the Democrats are following the same path as the Republicans.
DORGAN: Well not -- look, about two-thirds of the Democratic caucus in the Senate vote with me on the issues, a third don't. But virtually all the Republicans vote on the other side. When you ask what's necessary, I'd say first of all, for the country to get a backbone here to be willing to stand up for its own economic interest and say to China and other countries, either have you open markets and we have fair trade between us, or else go sell all your products in Zambia and see how quickly it sells.
DOBBS: Leo, respected CEO, you've run some of the country's biggest businesses in telecommunications and communications. What's happening with business that CEOs don't have the strength, the integrity to drive good public policy and talk about things called the common good?
HINDERY: I think it goes back to a shocking sort of abdication of responsibility to employees, and communities and to the nation as well as to shareholders. Right now, it's shareholders and management only in so many cases, Lou, that the kind of debate that the senator is calling for which focuses back on employees, on communities, on the nation, these CEOs are so fixated on the management class in some cases and shareholders in another, that we're not getting the debate.
But you have got to give the senator all the credit in the world, protecting jobs is not protectionism. That's all we're talking about here.
DOBBS: Leo Hindery, Senator Byron Dorgan, we thank you both. And if you are going to protect something, this country seems like a pretty good thing to protect.
DORGAN: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: Senator, thank you.
The largest American car parts supplier, Delphi, is bankrupt. And that will likely force its 50,000 American employees to agree to unprecedented cuts to their wages, benefits and pensions, and face as well mass layoffs. As Delphi tries to cut most its employees' salaries as much as 60 percent and cut health care and retirement benefits, Delphi reportedly has promised nearly two dozen of its top executives they will receive bigger paychecks and some of their bonuses if they're fired or laid off. A Delphi spokesperson says the old separation policy just wasn't competitive.
Delphi today said it would be shutting down or selling off most of its U.S. operations. By my estimation that won't be particularly competitive either.
Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. Twenty-five percent of you say employers who hire illegal aliens should be fined, 71 percent of you say they should be arrested, 3 percent left alone, 2 percent, give them more cost-plus contracts. An overwhelming response.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. Good night from New York.
ANDERSON COOPER 360 starting right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
