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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush Answers Critics in Veterans Day Speech; Secretary Rice Makes Surprise Visit to Baghdad
Aired November 11, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Hi, Wolf. Thank you.
Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, President Bush blasts critics of the war in Iraq as he struggles to convince Americans he has a strategy for victory. We'll have a live report from the White House.
Three more American troops have been killed in combat in Iraq as U.S. Marines expand their offensive near the border with Syria. We'll have that report.
And on this Veterans Day, Vice President Cheney leads the nation's salute to the millions of men and women who served this country in uniform. My guest tonight, the secretary of veterans affairs.
And religion versus science. The intensifying debate over our origins. There is outrage tonight after Rev. Pat Robertson threatened critics of intelligent design. We'll have a special report on God and politics.
President Bush today directly challenged his critics, the critics of his Iraq policies, with a spirited defense of his strategy in the war against radical Islamist terrorists. President Bush accused his political opponents of rewriting the history of how this war began.
The president's attack comes amid plummeting poll numbers for the president and rising concerns on both sides of the political aisle about the direction of the war in Iraq.
Elaine Quijano reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Before a Veterans Day crowd of military families in Pennsylvania, President Bush hit back hard against renewed Democratic criticisms that his administration twisted intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in the run-up to the Iraq war.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible for rewrite the history of how that war began. QUIJANO: The president's push-back is part of a campaign style strategy senior administration officials outlined earlier this week. It comes in the wake of the Scooter Libby indictment in the CIA leak case, in which the president's top political adviser, Karl Rove, remains under investigation.
Democrats have revived their attacks about how the U.S. went to war.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The benefit was always given to this president because of the actions that he took after 9/11. But that, we have found, now historically was the fact that this administration manipulated and misused intelligence information that rushed us to war.
QUIJANO: The president is also facing falling poll numbers. His overall approval rating continues to hover below 40 percent. And a new Associated Press/IPSOS poll shows 57 percent of people would not describe the president as honest.
STU ROTHENBERG, ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: This speech is an important first step, but it's not going to turn around public opinion. The president's going to need more speeches, more of a P.R. offensive. And frankly, he's going to need some good news. And then he can start to change opinions significantly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Top Bush aides acknowledge that headlines like the Scooter Libby indictment may have had an effect on President's Bush poll numbers, but at the same time officials here believe that they can restore those numbers. Now, in the coming days, look for the administration to continue with its strong rebuttal of Democratic criticisms and to enlist the help of GOP allies on Capitol Hill -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, thank you. Elaine Quijano, from the White House.
The president's address today, delivered under a banner declaring "Strategy for Victory," was very different in tone and content from some of his previous speeches on the war in Iraq. The biggest contrast, of course, was the president's speech in May of 2003 when he declared an end to major combat operations.
John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The speech ran 50 minutes, the message the president was looking to sell summarized behind him in just three words.
BUSH: We will never back down. We will never give in. We will never accept anything less than complete victory.
KING: "Strategy for Victory" is a very different message than "Mission Accomplished." Mr. Bush's political problem is in many ways a tale of those two banners.
Back in May 2003, Saddam Hussein's statue and government had fallen. Mr. Bush was in a position of strength.
BUSH: But we have seen the turning of the tide.
KING: Two and a half years later the insurgency is resilient, public support for the war wavering, Mr. Bush leading a Veterans Day rebuttal to critics that say the administration doesn't have a plan to back up its latest slogan.
BUSH: We're on the hunt. We're keeping pressure on the enemy.
KING: Just a year after he won reelection, Iraq is a credibility cloud over the president's second term.
Fifty-four percent of Americans now say the war was a mistake, up from 23 percent just after that May 2003 speech declaring major combat operations over. Fifty-three percent of Americans now believe the administration deliberately misled the American people about Iraq's weapon programs, up from 31 percent back then.
And just 49 percent of Americans in CNN polling describe Mr. Bush as honest and trustworthy, down from 65 percent just after Baghdad fell.
GLEN BOLGER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: If George W. Bush loses the perception that he is trustworthy and a strong leader, there's no question that's going to make his last three years as president much, much more difficult to get anything accomplished.
KING: Republicans on Capitol Hill are more and more breaking with the Republican White House, and Democrats are relentless. This from Senator John Kerry, Mr. Bush's opponent last year. "It's a dangerous day for our national security when an administration's word is no good."
The White House calls that hypocrisy. The president in his speech noted Senator Kerry's support of the war and even quoted him describing Saddam as a grave threat.
That flashback to last year's campaign is telling proof how the president's political standing has deteriorated. As one Republican strategist close to the White House put it, when you're still debating your opponent a year after the election, you are not debating from a position of strength.
John King, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And there is no good news for the president in the latest surveys. His approval rating continues to plummet. The latest FOX News poll shows just 36 percent of those surveyed approve of the president's job performance; 53 percent disapprove. This is the second consecutive record low approval rating for the president in that FOX poll.
Also tonight a new AP/IPSOS poll puts the president's approval rating at just 37 percent. His disapproval rating in this poll has now hit 61 percent.
In Iraq, three of our troops have been killed in combat west of Baghdad. Two American soldiers died of their wounds after a gun battle near Khalidiya. And a U.S. Marine died after a bomb explosion in Karabila.
Two thousand sixty-five American troops have now been killed in Iraq.
Five U.S. Marines were wounded in Karabila today as troops hunted insurgents and terrorists. The Marines' advance is being slowed by dozens of improvised explosive devices, bombs left by retreating insurgents. Troops found two bomb making factories filled with electronics, explosives and wires. They also found sniper's rifles and a suicide bomber's vest.
The U.S. offensive is the latest stage of what is being called Operation Steel Curtain. Near the border with Syria, that offensive is designed to stop the flow of terrorists into Iraq from Syria.
As American troops battle insurgents and terrorists, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today made a surprise visit to Baghdad, Secretary Rice calling for reconciliation among Iraq's divided ethnic groups just weeks before national elections will be held in December.
Kevin Flower has our report from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEVIN FLOWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With national elections and the formation of a permanent Iraqi government just five weeks away, the stakes couldn't be higher. And Rice echoed the administration mantra, stay the course, despite the ongoing violence.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The short-term problem is that Iraqis are being killed by -- innocent Iraqis are being killed by these terrorists. That's the short-term problem. And the answer to that is for the political process to continue and for Iraqi security forces to become more capable.
FLOWER: Rice mingled with American service members working with those Iraqi troops and then later met with Sunni Arab leaders to stress the importance of Sunni participation in the December 15 vote.
But not far off the radar screen, Wednesday's triple suicide attack in Jordan and the disturbing question of whether Iraq is becoming an exporter of terrorism to the region, a suggestion the secretary bristled at.
RICE: All of these places experienced terrorism long before the liberation of Iraq. And the idea that somehow because the Iraqis have now been liberating -- liberated and are fighting a very tough terrorist problem here, that you -- that somehow terrorism is gaining from what has happened in Iraq, I think is very short sighted.
FLOWER: Secretary Rice's visit was not announced in advance and caught most Americans here by surprise. She was on the ground for only about 12 hours, then off to stops in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Kevin Flower, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And in this country, from our nation's capital to cities large and small, America paused today to pay tribute to our veterans and their service to this nation that can never be repaid.
In Washington today Vice President Cheney laid a wreath on the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery. And Marine Sergeant Peter Pace, the newly installed chairman of the joint chiefs, gave a Veterans Day keynote address at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
New York City saluted our nation's veterans with its annual parade up Fifth Avenue. Today's parade dedicated to the estimated 91,000 New York City residents still alive who served in World War II. Hundreds of small towns across this country also paying tribute to veterans, including St. Charles, Missouri and Pennville, Indiana. All Veterans Day observe answers marking the 60th anniversary of the end of the World War II.
Still ahead here, how splits in the Republican Party are threatening the people's business on Capitol Hill. We'll have that report for you.
And illegal aliens bringing lawlessness to once peaceful communities along our southern border with Mexico. We'll have that special report.
And the future of the intelligent design debate as reaction to reverend Pat Robertson's outrageous comments continue to pour in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new report from the Congressional Budget Office reveals the profound impact of illegal immigration on our nation's economy and work force.
The CBO report finds one in every seven workers in this country born in another country. And they are responsible, according to the CBO report, for depressing wages over the entire economy.
Ten years ago, one in 10 workers was foreign born.
This report finds most foreign born workers in this country are low-paid workers from Mexico and Central America. The CBO says those workers are the biggest factor in the drop in wage growth in this country.
There are shocking charges tonight that more than a dozen motel owners in Arizona have been turning their rooms into safe houses for illegal aliens. Immigration and custom officials charging 13 motel operators and owners with sheltering illegal aliens smuggled across the border from Mexico.
ICE officials say smugglers paid those motel owners to turn the rooms into so-called stash houses for newly arrived illegal aliens. The United States is now looking to seize these businesses as part of this ongoing investigation into human smuggling all across our nation's broken border with Mexico.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Should owners of business establishments that house illegal aliens face stiff fines? Yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.
Our nation's illegal alien crisis is taking a terrible toll on American communities along the Mexican border. Residents there say their quality of life is being destroyed by illegal aliens flooding to their streets and turning once safe neighborhoods into danger zones.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last year the border patrol apprehended more than a million illegal aliens, but millions more went undetected. Violent crime along the border has increased with the spike in human smuggling.
The coyotes, as they are known, create a culture of lawlessness, according to New Mexico Representative Steven Pearce.
REP. STEVE PEARCE (R), NEW MEXICO: Mistakes have become so high for smugglers that they find out who the sheriffs are and who the deputies are and they tell them simply, "If you get in our way, we're going to kill you first and then we're going to kill your families."
SYLVESTER: Lawmakers from border states shared other concerns: the drain on resources. Southwest border hospitals provided more than $800 million in uncompensated care. Jails and courts are overwhelmed, schools overcrowded.
And the steady flow of OTM's, illegal aliens from countries other than Mexico, raises national security alarms. Unlike illegal Mexicans, who are sent back across the border, OTM's are given a court date, which 90 percent of them never show up for.
REP. HENRY BONILLA (R), TEXAS: The culture now is pathetic, Mr. Chairman, with the fact that these OTM's now, the culture of message is out there that they come across the border looking for the border patrol agents. They don't even run from them anymore.
SYLVESTER: Another major worry, the loss of jobs and lowering of wages.
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: We have to recognize that we are doing no favors for all of our citizens, all the people who vote for us, all the people who pay taxes, all the people who play by the rules to get here if we do not protect them from simply having their job taken by the next person willing to work for less.
SYLVESTER: More lawmakers are tuning into their constituents who have long complained about illegal immigration, but so far real action has been slow in coming.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: One measure signed into law, the Real I.D. Act, set the deadline of 2008 for states to ensure that driver's licenses are being issued only to people who are in the country legally. But it's been a slow process. DHS is working with the National Association of Governors and other groups to come up with those standards. And nine states have to change their laws so they explicitly require legal presence as a condition for a driver's license -- Lou.
DOBBS: What a novel concept. Thank you very much, Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Still ahead here, the Republican Party is divided. Three of the country's top political commentators join me to discuss this week in Washington. After the outrageous comments on Dover, Pennsylvania, there are new passions rising in the battle over intelligent design. We'll have that special report on God and politics coming up here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Reverend Pat Robertson's comments just simply intensifying what is already a hot debate in this country about intelligent design. Voters in Dover, Pennsylvania, ousted eight school board members who started a policy to include intelligent design in the study of evolution.
On the same day the Kansas Board of Education mandated that intelligent design be taught in that state's public schools.
On God and politics, Bill Tucker with the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Microevolution.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kansas has become the face of the intelligent design argument. It is the only state where the legislature and its state school board have passed legislation and policy requiring science classes be told that evolution is not the only theory of life, and that it's a controversial theory at that. Kansas is not alone.
EUGENIE SCOTT, NATIONAL CENTER FOR SCIENCE EDUCATION: It's an issue that can crop up anywhere. But it tends to crop up more frequently in communities that are more homogeneous and more religiously conservative. TUCKER: There's legislation pending in 14 states which is anti- evolutionary theory or pro-intelligent design in language. They are not concentrated in one single region. It's also expected that early next year legislation will be introduced in Colorado, Indiana and Utah.
MICHAEL PETRILLI, THOMAS B. FORDHAM FOUNDATION: This issue does remain on the front burner. And unfortunately, the intelligent design folks appear to be succeeding in getting politicians to push science out of science class.
TUCKER: Proponents of intelligent design beg to disagree. They say nothing to be healthier for science than a national debate on the issue of intelligent design. In fact, nothing could make them happier than finding a school board willing to pursue the case all the way to the United States Supreme Court.
RICHARD THOMPSON, THOMAS MORE LAW CENTER: I am confident that, if and when this issue gets before the United States Supreme Court, that they will hold critiques of Darwin's theory of evolution and presentation of the alternative theory of evolution passes constitutional muster.
TUCKER: Because it's a theory that has nothing to do with religion, advocates say. Yet, the defeat sparked an angry outburst from television evangelist Pat Robertson. He said, quote, "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover, if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God. You just rejected him from your city."
He went on to add that "If they have future problems in Dover, I recommend they call on Charles Darwin. Maybe he can help them."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: I spoke with people in Dover today, who said Robertson's comments are not welcome. And in fact, they're hurtful. Several pastors in town have spoken out, saying they think Pat Robertson, Lou, is just flat out of touch with mainstream Christianity.
DOBBS: Well, I think there's probably a large body of opinion that would concur.
Bill Tucker, I understand that there are about 28 states in which intelligent design is an issue one way or the other. It looks like this is becoming a much broader debate than anyone would have expected even a year ago.
TUCKER: There are a lot of people who do not realize the scale of it. Issues in 28 states. And people expect it to go to more.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill.
Well, just ahead here tonight, a Republican Party that is divided and President Bush firing back at his critics after weeks of turmoil at the White House. I'll be talking to three of the country's top political and legal minds here next. And new details in the Tom DeLay indictment. The former House majority leader is becoming, shall we say, aggressive? We'll have that story.
And honoring the millions of men and women who serve this nation's military. We'll have a special edition of our weekly tribute to our men and women in uniform, "Heroes." And tonight I'll be joined by the secretary of veterans affairs, Jim Nicholson. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today blasted critics of the war in Iraq. President Bush declared his opponents are trying to rewrite the history of how this war began.
Senate minority leader, Senator Robert Byrd, accused the president of criticizing -- Harry Reid of criticizing patriotic Americans. Three American troops today killed in combat in Iraq. Two thousand sixty-five of our troops have been killed in Iraq since this war began.
And Vice President Dick Cheney today leading the nation's tributes to the millions of Americans serving this country in uniform and warning that difficult missions remain ahead.
The American public's growing displeasure with the Bush administration comes as a new crisis hits Republicans on Capitol Hill. Republican congressional leaders, stung by scandal, appear to have completely lost their ability to work with each other and take care of America's, the people's, business.
Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): The GOP seems to be cracking up. What was once a unified and disciplined majority now seems to be all over the place.
BOB BARR (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: You have a situation as the Republicans are now going through on the Hill, with sort of a vacuum of leadership at the White House, a vacuum of leadership in the Congress.
SCHNEIDER: House Republican leaders had to postpone a budget vote this week. Conservatives are demanding serious spending cuts. Moderate Republicans are balking. They refuse to support a budget that includes cuts in food stamps and health care spending for the poor.
They also forced House leaders to drop a provision that would have allowed oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
REP. CHARLES BASS (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: I and other like-minded members will not vote for the final package when it comes back if it has drilling in the Arctic. SCHNEIDER: The Senate? Same story. The finance committee broke up in disarray when Senator Olympia Snowe declared she could not support another round of tax cuts at a time when Congress was cutting programs for the poor and struggling to find funds for hurricane recovery.
Republicans are split over whether to investigate the latest CIA leak concerning secret detention facilities in foreign countries.
REP. PETE HOEKSTRA (R-MI), INTELLIGENT COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The depth of leaks that we have seen in the intelligence community over the last 12 to 18 months have done irreparable harm to our ability to effectively conduct the war on terror.
SCHNEIDER: And some Republicans are very worried about where things are going in Iraq.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: There's an undeniable sense that things are slipping. We need to make several significant policy changes.
SCHNEIDER: Why is the GOP in disarray? Because of these numbers. Seven national polls have come out this month. All show President Bush's job approval rating in the 30s.
When a president's in free fall, he can't offer political cover to members of his party. So what do they do? They go their own way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: That message was re-enforced by this week's elections. A lot of Republicans looked at what happened in Virginia, and they concluded, "We're on our own now" -- Lou.
DOBBS: As -- as a point in fact, Kilgore may feel that he was on his own despite a late appearance by the president.
Bill Schneider, these -- these numbers on these poll ratings, is it, do you believe, settling in with the Republican leadership, both the party leadership as well as the congressional leadership and, of course, the White House, that perhaps this means that policies need to be changed and new directions taken?
SCHNEIDER: I don't think they know what to believe. I think some of them think it's a temporary setback. Some of them think it's the result of bad news, bad luck, like the Hurricane Katrina, which they clearly weren't prepared for. Some of them are worrying about Iraq. A lot of them say it's gas prices.
There are so many possibilities for explaining why those numbers are bad, that they can't really come together and say what needs to be changed at this point.
DOBBS: There, as I say, is a problem.
SCHNEIDER: Yes. DOBBS: Bill Schneider, thank you.
Tonight the battle between former House majority leader, Tom DeLay, and Austin, Texas, district attorney Ronnie Earle is escalating, if you can imagine that. DeLay's attorneys are now demanding internal documents from Earle's office. They say Earle pressured a grand jury improperly into filing indictments against the grand jury's wishes. And they say those internal documents would prove their case. Earle, a Democrat, indicted DeLay on conspiracy and money laundering charges back in September. DeLay's legal team is trying to get those charges dropped.
Joining me go now, three of the country's leading political and legal analysts. From New York, Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund, from Chicago David Gergen, former adviser to four presidents and good fellow. In New York, our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Good to have you all with us. John, let me ask you. These Republicans have been resisting the advice that you've been handing out in columns.
JOHN FUND, WALL STREET JOURNAL COLUMNIST: Not the first time.
DOBBS: Not the first time. But the fact is, it is hard to find what they are following, what tenets, what values and what direction.
FUND: Well, first of all, let's put this election in context. It was a very bad night for Republicans. But if they do get their act together, they can recover.
The Democrats won New Jersey and Virginia four years ago for governor by bigger margins than they won this week. And within a year after the last time they lost, the Republicans came back and took the Senate.
So they can recover, but they need a sense of direction, they need a sense of value, and they need to get the nerve back. This budget vote was astonishing.
DOBBS: Budget vote being?
FUND: The one they couldn't have because they didn't have the votes. The cuts are not really cuts, they're only reductions in the rate of increase. They represent one half of one percent of federal spending over the next 10 years. If they cannot reduce federal spending by one half of one percent, what is the purpose of having a Republican party?
DOBBS: Well, that's an increasingly popular question these days, isn't it, David Gergen?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Well, it is indeed, Lou. I have some slight difference with John, I think. And that is, I believe that the change has to be led by the president, not by the Congress. It has to be a course correction. Ronald Reagan was famous for course corrections when he felt that he was moving in the wrong direction or he was losing his political support.
In this case, Lou, I think the course correction is one of philosophy, as well. That is, the president has assumed that he can rebuild his presidency by appealing to his base, his conservative base.
But the truth is, he's losing a lot of moderates and independents. If he's going to rebuild his presidency, he has to be president of more than the base. He has to be president of the entire country. To do that, he has to go back and appeal more to the independents and the moderates and join them to his base.
DOBBS: How does he do that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I don't know. I think the war is the key to all of this because that's the problem that can't go away. That's the problem he is responsible for.
Today the gist of his speech was, well, I was wrong in good faith, not in bad faith. That doesn't strike me as a real big rallying cry that's going to turn things around.
I think making good decisions when it comes to a Supreme Court nomination like Alito, that will help turn things around. But Iraq, I don't know how he turns things around.
DOBBS: Let's talk about that. The president appearing in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, on this Veterans Day, in which we honor all who serve this nation in uniform and have served it.
The vice president at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Taking on this issue about rewriting history. This is a difficult context and day for the president to be doing what he did, isn't it?
FUND: Sure, 2000 dead in Iraq. But, I think the White House is charted a course for the next year, which leads up to the midterm elections.
Increasing number of Iraqis trained. The constitution which has finally been resolved, largely, implemented. The Iraqis starting to take over more in a gradual withdrawal. That's an exit strategy that I think can relieve some of the political pressure.
TOOBIN: Except it's not happening.
FUND: The constitution was real.
TOOBIN: No, no, the constitution is real.
FUND: And the government is continuing to train more troops, slowly, beyond -- behind schedule but still slowly.
The next year they can make real progress. TOOBIN: But more Americans continue to die all the time there. Is that just going to continue indefinitely?
FUND: This is the war on terror. There will be casualties.
GERGEN: But all due respect, that doesn't represent a course correction. In my judgment, he's got a problem here at home because he's -- his big problem now is not just his approval ratings are down, the belief that he's an honest president is way down.
He's -- more than half the country now, 55 percent, say he intentionally misled us into war. More than half the country believe he's no longer honest.
DOBBS: If you would, put up that poll, please, do you think President Bush is honest? The A.P./IPSOS poll, I mean, this is really -- well, those are the job ratings.
I'd like to see the poll on whether or not you think President Bush is honest, if we have that. Anyway, the number is no, 57 percent, yes, 42.
FUND: One of the things we have to recall here is, every leading Democrat, including the Democrats who had access to the same intelligence information like Jay Rockefeller, approved of the war in Iraq. They felt there were WMDs there. The Clinton administration felt there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Everybody made this mistake.
DOBBS: David Gergen makes a very important point. We look at these polls, we see this list of polls in which his approval rate is plummeting. Sixty percent of the country thinks we're going to the right direction. At what point...
GERGEN: ... wrong direction.
DOBBS: In the wrong direction. At what point -- as someone put it so quaintly, the morons on Capitol Hill figure out that it's time to take the country in a different direction?
FUND: Fine, but you don't cut and run and withdraw from Iraq. That creates more problems and a greater sense of weakness in our international posture than staying the course would. Of course Iraq can be handled better. That doesn't mean you withdraw.
DOBBS: That to me is again, and this administration has been brilliant, about creating Hobson' choices of extreme polar opposites, whether it's economic policy with economic isolationism or free trade, as if there's nothing in between.
Stay the course or cut and run. For God sake. There are lots of things that can be done in Iraq.
FUND: When Ronald Reagan pulled out of Lebanon, it did not make things better in the Middle East. GERGEN: But John, nobody's saying here that he has to cut and run out of Iraq. What we're saying is, if he's got a problem about being disbelieved. He's got to make documents available, he's got to open up the way he governs. He's got to work with Democrats.
FUND: What documents David?
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Dick Cheney is still the vice president of the United States and he doesn't answer questions at all, much less release any documents.
This administration doesn't change. For better or worse, they are set in their course and they're going to stay on their course. And I think anybody who thinks that President Bush is going to suddenly become a moderate is -- he just hasn't been watching this administration for the past five years.
DOBBS: It was a little amusing to me to see a number of national news organization respond to the vote, the decision not to move forward with the spending cuts in Congress, saying that the moderates had won the day by keeping in place, spending levels. I mean, we even become a nation confused about our labels for crying out loud, haven't we?
FUND: The Bush administration is being urged to pursue a more moderate course. I don't know what domestic spending increases that are five points above the rate of inflation could possibly be, other than liberal spending policies. I don't know how this administration can become more liberal in terms of spending.
GERGEN: The administration could strike an agreement with Democrats and with moderates certainly, in a Republican party, if they would revisit taxes as part of a physical discipline program. You have to do both to get both parties to the table.
FUND: David, the tax cuts have helped this economic recovery.
Every major economist agrees that the cap that they built helped.
DOBBS: Now what we have to do is convince all of America that deficits and perpetuity are good for our children and their children and the health of the nation's economy 20 years out.
FUND: If we don't have the discipline to cut spending, we are doomed.
DOBBS: Are there values beyond economics here? This is a nation built on values of shared sacrifice, on paying our way. The Republican party built on fiscal prudence and a sense of responsibility.
FUND: There is no fiscal prudence in Congress, that's our biggest problem.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, good to have you.
GERGEN: There's no fiscal prudence downtown, either.
DOBBS: I'm sorry, David?
GERGEN: There's no fiscal prudence downtown at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. They haven't vetoed one bill.
DOBBS: I agree.
Look out, Washington, it's getting ugly when David Gergen and John Fund and Jeffrey Toobin have decided to take a critical look from every direction.
Thank you, gentlemen, appreciate it.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Michael in Illinois, wrote to say, on your question as to whose comment most accurately describes the trade deficit. It's bothersome, if your neighbor is paying. It's devastating if you yourself are paying it, but it's shameful if your children are paying it.
And Cathy in Florida, said, dear Lou, I think it's shameful and devastating that President Bush thinks the U.S. trade deficit is only bothersome.
And Joyce writes to say, Pat Robertson's views are shameless, devastating and bothersome.
Helen in Tennessee, said, as a Christian, I'm embarrassed by Pat Robertson's tirades in the name of God.
Jerry in Virginia, Lou we've just seen the proof that intelligence design theory is flawed. If there was an intelligent designer for the universe, then morons and jackasses like Pat Robertson would not exist.
And Joseph, of California said, is Robertson saying that the whole town will suffer the wrath of God, or just those who voted against the school board members?
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Still ahead here, Florida's bilingual battle. The state senator who pushed to make Spanish mandatory in Florida schools is our guest.
And a special tribute tonight to our nation's veterans. A Veteran's Day salute to our men and women, who give so much to the nation.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Last night on this broadcast we reported to you about a controversial bill in Florida to make Spanish mandatory for hundreds of thousands of school children, kindergarten through second grade.
This despite the fact that 17 percent of those same children are not yet considered proficient in English in any way.
Critics call the proposed political correctness--call it a proposal of political correctness gone wild.
Tonight Florida State Senator Les Miller is drafting his legislation, redrafting, and he still however stands by his belief that foreign language should someday be compulsory in Florida schools.
Joining us tonight from Tampa. Senator, good to have you with us.
LES MILLER (D), FLORIDA STATE SENATE: Thank you, sir.
Now, the idea of making a foreign language mandatory in the state of Florida, particularly choosing Spanish, you know, a lot of cynics said well, Senator Miller is running for Congress, and he's pandering, frankly, to Hispanic population and voters in his district. No truth?
MILLER: No truth.
I ran for a district that is about 15 to 17 percent Hispanic in the year 2000. And we had no bill like this at all. So, that's not pandering to get the Hispanic vote.
This bill is basically that we put out there to make sure that our children get some introduction to a foreign language. And that foreign language being Spanish because its the second most spoken language in the state.
DOBBS: All four of my kids have studied Spanish. The whole family speaks Spanish. The fact is it's great, but why in the world would you want to make it mandatory?
MILLER: Well, when the bill came out the language was in there. We didn't think it made the language mandatory, the teaching of it mandatory.
The Hillsborough County School District, which the city of Tampa is in, called me, and said, you know, we have a problem. It makes it mandatory. That's not one thing I want to do.
So, I sat down with them and talked to them. Said, we're going to go through the process of trying to make sure it's not mandatory, but have some credence to have it taught.
DOBBS: Why did it occur to you to have it be Spanish?
You got--we just checked, 220 languages spoken in your district. I guess you knew that. But 220--I mean, I was surprised, that many.
How did you pick that one?
MILLER: Well, Spanish is the second largest spoken language in the state, and we felt that if these kindergartners through second grade, that's what we're talking about, can have some idea of a foreign language taught that would be the language, Spanish.
Because they are in the class with a lot of people that speak Spanish, and they are probably around them around in the neighborhood where a lot of people speak Spanish. That's why we chose Spanish.
DOBBS: How about making English compulsory? Because we also looked at how students are doing in your district in terms of reading, writing and arithmetic, and how many people are graduating from high school, Hispanics, African-Americans, whites.
You know, senator, it's not good.
MILLER: I know, I have a district that's the poorest district in the state. And we're trying to correct that education aspect in the state by what we're doing.
And believe me, right now, there are classes in the state to make sure that we try to make sure that those people that don't have a proficiency in English have a proficiency in English.
And we're not trying to say don't have that proficiency. We're just saying introduce kindergarten through second grade to Spanish in some type of way.
DOBBS: How about introducing English?
And making sure that we're not losing just about half of our African-American students, as they drop out of high school, half of our Hispanic students, as they drop out of high school, and our fourth and eighth graders unable to be proficient, so many of them, in English itself.
I respect the idea of learning foreign languages. I sure respect putting together a great education, so we don't waste another generation of Americans. I have to believe you agree with that.
MILLER: I agree with that, Mr. Dobbs. And I can tell you I've been in legislature for 13 years, and I've served on education committees. I serve now on education appropriations committee.
And I have worked hard in the state to make sure that African- American students and other minority students have efficiency to graduate. We've had some problems in the state...
DOBBS: Senator, I want to be clear.
This isn't just Florida. We're talking nation-wide. It is a national insult what we have done to a generation of children in our public schools.
We thank you very much. Senator, we appreciate your being here and reconsidering your position. And we wish you all the very best.
MILLER: Thank you very much, sir. DOBBS: Senator Les Miller.
Just ahead, ensuring our nation's 24 million veterans receive the care and the support they need and deserve.
I'll be joined by the secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary Jim Nicholson next.
And a special Veteran's Day edition of our weekly tribute to the men and women, who serve this nation in uniform around the world. "Heroes" is next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight on this Veteran's Day a special edition of our week salute to our nation's heroes, the men and women who serve this nation all around the world.
Here are just some of their remarkable stories.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. JONATHAN AYERSMAN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We had sent him in for security. And we were keeping an eye out what was going on in the city to my front. That's when the first mortars, RPGs, small arms started going off.
And I actually had to shove my driver. I actually had to push him down in the driver's compartment and close the hatch, and swing my machine gun around when I noticed the insurgents.
I thought I was actually wounded, but I checked myself out real quick, and I was fine. And shook it off, and grabbed my machine gun again. And continued to engage.
SGT. ROBERT BONNER, U.S. ARMY: You hear this loud boom and I just felt wetness on my face because I was in the back seat behind the driver, and looked up to see if he was all right. And I just looked down and noticed my legs. I got gotten hit.
STAFF SGT. JESSICA CLEMENTS, U.S. ARMY: I was rushed to the hospital and he saw that my brain was swelling. He removed the right portion of my skull. He literally cut it off for safe keeping. I had so learn basically to do everything again.
LANCE CPL. RANDY LAKE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: In my mind, I mean, I did what anybody would have done for their best friend. They would have went in there no matter what to get him.
GUNNERY SGT. TIM HANEY, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Receiving the silver star is a very prestigious award, and I'm completely humbled by it. I didn't think that I had done anything spectacular.
CAPT. THOM MERRY, SURGEON, U.S. MARINE CORPS RESERVE: These are brave, young, men and women. And it keeps me younger being with them. It's a privilege. If you see them, these are the finest and they volunteer. They really do understand that it's not an ideal world. And sometimes, you know, we have to ...
SGT. PETER BIEBER, IOWA NATIONAL GUARD: Being in the army, putting on the uniform, you feel like one of the good guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MA:E: As long as I breathe and as long as, you know, I can still do it, I love to train. I love to lead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States is one of the greatest places on earth that I think, you know, being over there for six months. All the great stuff we have here, freedom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Remarkable men and women. Thankfully there have been millions of them serving this nation in uniform. Heroes all, and we all are grateful every day but especially on this Veterans Day.
Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, what are you working on?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. We're working on several stories including those hotel bombings in Jordan. Did a husband and wife team actually carry out the suicide attacks? Our Nic Robertson is live in Amman with that.
Plus Bill Clinton in his own words. He's firing back over his impeachment and former Congressman Bob Barr is firing right back at him.
Also, putting the Christ back into Christmas. Wal-Mart backs down after pressure from the Catholic League. Will you change what you see this holiday season? We have that story.
And get this: a cell phone bandit. Do you know who this woman is? Police tonight are asking you for help. That and much more coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM," Lou, right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Wolf. Thank you.
Still ahead, what we as a nation are doing to support our men and women who put their lives on the line in service to this country. Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson, our guest here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results now of our poll, 97 percent of you responding saying owners of business establishments that house illegal aliens should be facing stiff fines.
On this Veterans Day, my next guest has made it his duty to ensure all generations of our nation's veterans receive the care and the dignity they deserve. You're looking, by the way, at the World War II memorial in Washington, D.C. on this Veteran's Day.
Secretary Jim Nicholson heading up veterans affairs, the Department of Veterans Affairs, joining us tonight from Washington, D.C. You a veteran, serving your country with distinction. A decorated veteran, I guess we can begin by saying thank you to you.
JIM NICHOLSON, VETERANS AFFAIRS SECY.: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: And really saying thank you to all of those people who have served this country. The great challenge for all of us, but it's your responsibility, is to make sure we're taking care of our veterans. What are the greatest challenges in doing so in your judgment?
NICHOLSON: Well, thank you, first of all. Thank you for honoring those heroes from the combat zone and for your good words and happy Veterans Day. And all Americans, I think, on a day like this are grateful for the 50 million veterans that have served us in uniform. We still have 25 million veterans in our country, and we're a very grateful nation for these veterans.
And the V.A. is the agent of that gratitude of the American people so it's our job to provide them with the health care that they deserve and that they need with benefits, compensation benefits, with honorable burials, G.I. loan benefits, life insurance, adaptive housing if they have been wounded and so forth. And my challenge is to make sure that we have the resources to do this job.
But I will tell you that President Bush has increased the budget of the V.A. 50 percent since he's been in office, a record amount. And I'm very optimistic that that support of the president will continue for our veterans, and that the Congress will be supportive as well, because they right now are very supportive of veterans.
DOBBS: Your budget running over $70 billion. It's one of the first times that I have heard both the secretary of veterans affairs and the leading -- the leaders of veteran affairs organizations saying in agreement that that's just about the right amount of money to take care of our folks who are in uniform and who have served.
NICHOLSON: We have 7.5 million patients at our hospital system, Lou. And we have 157 major medical centers around the country, 860 clinics. And our budget right now is bigger than the budget of 24 states combined. So this country and the people of this country, through the president, through the Congress, are certainly doing a lot for our veterans. The veterans are getting great health care and great benefits.
DOBBS: And Secretary Jim Nicholson, we thank you for being here. We appreciate it, having your thoughts on this veteran's day.
NICHOLSON: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Thank you.
Finally tonight, we thought we would share some thoughts on what it means to be an American. "Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity and hardihood -- the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." Those the words of our 26th president, Theodore Roosevelt.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here next week Monday I'll be joined by 9/11 Commission Member Tim Roemer to discuss the group's latest report that will be released Monday. And I'll be talking with him about the Able Danger controversy.
For all of us here, thanks for being with us. We wish you a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer begins right now -- Wolf.
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