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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Presidential Immigration Summit in Cancun; NAFTA's Failure ; Rift Over Immigration Reforms; U.S. And Canadian Big Business Against Border Security; Carlos De Icaza Interview; Pro-Amnesty Lobby Now Being Debated On Senate Floor
Aired March 30, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, March 30.
Live from Cancun, Mexico, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening from Cancun, where the leaders of the United States, Mexico and Canada are holding summit talks tonight, trilateral summit talks on illegal immigration, border security and so-called free trade.
President Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper are discussing their vision of a northern hemisphere with common open borders. They want expanded trade and security cooperation. But at what cost to U.S. national security and U.S. sovereignty?
I'll be talking tonight with Mexico's ambassador to the United States about all of that and more.
And President Bush's guest worker program for illegal aliens is the focus of intensifying debate in the United States Senate. We'll be live on Capitol Hill with that report, where the Senate is tonight embroiled in a battle over the very definition of illegal alien amnesty.
And as summit leaders here discuss border security, the dangerous Iranian nuclear crisis with the West has escalated. We'll have a report on Iran's complete dismissal of a tough new warning from the U.N. Security Council.
We begin tonight with important summit talks taking place here in Cancun, focusing on the illegal immigration crisis in particular. President Bush, who's under intense pressure to convince Congress to pass his guest worker amnesty program, met face to face today with Mexican President Vicente Fox here in Cancun. And right now, the president is in a bilateral meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Elaine Quijano is here now with a report -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it was just about 30 minutes or so ago that we heard briefly from both President Bush and Mexico's President Vicente Fox after their bilateral meeting here in Cancun. And as expected, the two leaders discussed the issue of illegal immigration.
Now, as Congress is taking up this highly-charged issue, President Bush said he wants to see an immigration bill on his desk that includes not only border security and interior enforcement, but also the controversial temporary guest worker program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's an important part of have a border that works. We don't want people sneaking into our country that are going to do jobs Americans won't do. We want them coming in an orderly way which will take pressure off of both our borders. And I explained to the president my vision of the citizenship issue. And I don't believe somebody should be allowed to come into our country and get ahead of the line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Still, the fact that the president is advocating that illegal immigrants can even get in line at all is a fact that continues to infuriate some of the president's fellow Republicans, conservatives who see temporary worker program as amnesty.
Now, for his part, President Fox said that he understood that the immigration issue is one that has shared responsibilities. He said Mexico is taking steps to crack down on smugglers who facilitate illegal immigration.
Earlier today, on a tour of the ancient Mayan runs at Chechen Itza, nearby, President Fox also acknowledged to reports that the immigration issue, though, was largely out of his and President Bush's hands, that it was up to the United States Congress. And on that point just a short time ago, we heard President Bush talk about that, saying that it was a legislative r process that might look cumbersome to some, but in the president's words, "That is how America's democracy works" -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, indeed it is.
Elaine Quijano, thank you very much.
A new study from the Pew Hispanic Center finds that the majority of Americans are growing increasingly concerned about the issue of illegal immigration. In response in this survey to one question about illegal immigration, 53 percent of the respondents said illegal immigrants should be required to go home, 40 percent said they should be granted outright legal status.
Then, in a series of questions that blurs the line between legal and illegal immigration, the Pew Hispanic Center asks for American reaction to immigration. Not illegal immigration, but immigration.
Fifty-two percent said immigrants are a burden on the United States, 41 percent say they strengthen this country. Two-thirds of the people polled said immigrants do take jobs Americans don't want, while 56 percent said immigrants do not pay their fair share of taxes. And 58 percent said recent immigrants do not learn English within a reasonable amount of time.
Again, most of the questions in the poll do not distinguish between legal and illegal immigration, which blurs a very important line in this debate and which is unfortunate because the Pew Hispanic Center has done some outstanding polling and research on these critical issues.
The first step toward trinational integration was the North American Free Trade Agreement signed by President Clinton in 1993. Its supporters said NAFTA would boost America's exports and reduce illegal immigration from Mexico. It is now clear that those supporters were outright wrong on both counts.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The three leaders reaffirm their country's commitment to NAFTA, the North America Free Trade Agreement enacted 13 years ago. Since then, trade and investments have nearly tripled and factories have sprouted up in border towns.
Despite these signs of success, labor groups say NAFTA has been an utter disaster.
JAMES HOFFA, JR., PRESIDENT, TEAMSTERS UNION: What we were told about NAFTA has been a complete lie. Basically, American corporations moved across the Rio Grande to export back into the United States.
SYLVESTER: The United States is now facing a $50 billion trade deficit with Mexico. The largest in history. The overall U.S. trade deficit is closing in on a record $800 billion, and the United States has lost nearly $3 million manufacturing jobs since NAFTA took effect.
Just look what happened to the auto industry.
The U.S. auto trade deficit surged from $3.6 billion in 1993 to $27.3 billion today. Ford, GM and Chrysler are shedding tens of thousands of jobs. And it's not just Detroit's big three. Auto part's makers like Delphi have gone bankrupt.
FRANK GAFFNEY, PRESIDENT, MICHIGAN AFL-CIO: What you're doing is you're trading good American jobs for not very good Mexican jobs. These jobs are not lifting the Mexican work into their middle class. They're continuing to exploit them.
It's a lose for the worker in America, and it's a lose for the worker in Mexico. The only people making out are the corporations and the stockholders.
SYLVESTER: The standard of living in Mexico is lower than it was in 1993. And the wage gap has widened. Mexico's rural areas and poor have been displaced by having to compete with multinational corporations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (INAUDIBLE) abandon the countrysides perhaps because they don't support them.
JASON ACKLESON, NEW MEXICO STATE UNIV.: A small Mexican farmer who was used to selling his corn or rice to -- on the market, that individual has had a hard time competing now that rice or corn from the United States, for instance, is actually cheaper in Mexico.
SYLVESTER: That's fueled illegal immigration and the crisis that's now facing the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: U.S. labor unions want President Bush to renegotiate NAFTA, and the leading candidate in Mexico's election, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, also wants to do away with the current agreement because of the negative effects that it's had on Mexico's poor -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lope Obrador is the leading candidate right now. A left wing former mayor of Mexico City. He cannot be comfortable with these facts.
It appears that the Senate and the House are not comfortable with these facts, nor this administration, because as you just reported clearly and unequivocally with the facts before us, NAFTA isn't working.
SYLVESTER: Ad it's amazing, because here at the summit you keep on hearing the same -- these same leaders are talking about NAFTA as if it's been a wonderful thing for their respective countries, but it's actually hurt the workers in the United States and it's hurt the workers here in Mexico.
DOBBS: A remarkable -- I keep thinking about denial is not a river, is always very important when talking about at least the U.S. government. I'll refer to the Mexican government and the Canadian government.
Lisa, thank you very much.
On Capitol Hill tonight, the Senate is spending its first full day in debate of President Bush's so-called temporary guest worker program for illegal aliens. Senators today clashed repeatedly over whether the program will lead to amnesty for illegal aliens.
Andrea Koppel reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Craig?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As the first full day of debate got under way, critics of a proposed plan to lay out a path to citizenship for an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants hammered away at what they saw as the plan's Achilles' heel.
SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: Any measure that's tantamount to amnesty sends exactly the wrong message as we try to get our hands around this problem. We are a nation that believes in upholding the rule of law.
KOPPEL: But the plan's supporters, which include prominent Republicans, as well as Democrats, insisted these illegal immigrants would not get a free pass and would have to meet a series of requirements over 11 years before they'd qualify to become a U.S. citizen.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: You do no want to create a fugitive class in America and an underclass in America. But the committee bill is not amnesty.
KOPPEL: Another hot-button issue under debate, a proposal to allow future immigrants to come to the U.S. to work under a so-called guest worker program. But over in the House, which already passed a much tougher bill last December focused exclusively on border security, Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo pledged to oppose any guest worker program.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: But John Q. Citizen doesn't want it. They don't want the Senate plan. What they want is clear and simple. They want to secure the border, and they want to go after the people who are hiring people who are here illegally.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Congressman Tancredo, as you well know, Lou, is one of the harshest critics of illegal immigrants in the United States. And while he is far from alone in the House, as we reported yesterday, the House speaker, Dennis Hastert, has already signaled that the House may compromise once it gets its hand on the Senate bill, something that the Republican leadership here in the Senate says they hope will happen by the end of next week, when they leave on their Easter- Passover recess -- Lou.
DOBBS: Andrea Koppel, thank you very much, reporting from Capitol Hill.
Now our poll tonight. The question is: Do you believe the final version of the congressional immigration reform bill -- so-called -- should include a guest worker amnesty program, yes or no?
Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here later in the broadcast.
As the United States Senate debates a so-called temporary guest worker program, as they try to define temporary and guest worker and amnesty, there is new evidence tonight that there is no such thing as a temporary guest worker program.
The Department of Homeland Security today announced a 12-month extension of the so-called temporary worker program for thousands of Honduran and Nicaraguan citizens now working in the United States. These workers were granted so-called temporary worker status back in 1999 after two hurricanes had devastated their countries. If you're keeping count, this is the fifth time that these so- called temporary workers in the United States have been granted extensions to stay and work in the United States.
Still ahead here, we'll have a special report for you on the progress or lack of progress that the president has made since the last trilateral summit a year ago.
Also, we'll tell you how many special interest groups plan to benefit if amnesty is granted to illegal aliens. It is the amnesty agenda. We'll be revealing the motives and the interests involved.
And how illegal aliens are bringing diseases across the borders, diseases that haven't been prevalent in the United States for years. It is a problem that's being all but ignored.
We'll have that report, a great deal more as we continue our coverage of the trilateral summit live from Cancun, Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Welcome back.
We're reporting to you tonight from Cancun, the site of this year's trilateral summit among the United States, Mexico and Canada.
President Bush is, in effect, attempting here to allow both Canada and Mexico to help set the agenda for U.S. border security and so-called free trade policies. These meetings are part a year-long effort to promote North American economic integration that many say threatens outright American's sovereignty. It is particularly disturbing because the electorates in neither of the three countries has ever had an opportunity to express its political will on any of the issues under discussion here.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The English translation for the ancient Mayan word "Cancun" is serpent's nest, and that may be what President Bus is stepping into during his meeting with his Mexican and Canadian counterparts.
BUSH: I want to thank those who have worked hard to make sure this important part of history is accessible and is available for people to understand the past so we can better understand the future.
WIAN: The United States may have already been had now that Congress appears willing to go along with the president's proposal to grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. It fits with the agenda of all three leaders. They're pushing the security and prosperity partnership of North America, which was announced at last year's summit. Among its security goals, common border security and improving the legitimate flow of people and cargo across North American borders. A year later, lawlessness on the U.S. southern border continues to escalate and it's even becoming a problem on the northern border.
BUSH: Since 2001, believe it or not, we've stopped six million people trying to sneak into our country. An amazing statistic. It's a lot.
WIAN: But it's nowhere near the number who have successfully crossed the borders illegally.
On prosperity, the partnership seeks improved productivity and enhanced North American competitiveness. Instead, U.S. labor productivity fell in the fourth quarter for the first time in nearly five years. And all three nations are under economic attack from communist China.
Still, supporters of the partnership say progress is being made.
ERIC FARNSWORTH, V.P., COUNCIL OF THE AMERICAS: The main things have been, from a political perspective, the idea that, in fact, North America has to increasingly see itself as an integrated political and economic space if we're going to increasingly be competitive against the Chinas and Indias of the world.
WIAN: Farnsworth, whose organization advocates so-called free trade, says the North American security and prosperity partnership is not seeking a European-style union. The ultimate goal, though, remains undefined.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Progress at this summit will be difficult to achieve because President Bush and President Fox are both under increasing political pressure at home over the issues of border security and immigration reform -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian.
Supporters of the amnesty agenda have called for mass demonstrations in cities all across the country on the 10th of April. Spanish language radio is heavily promoting the so-called National Day of Action. Spanish language media was instrumental in mobilizing turnout for a Los Angeles rally that drew 500,000 people and put them into the streets last Saturday.
Meanwhile, 200 students rallied today in front of the state house in New Jersey. Pending state legislation in New Jersey would provide college tuition to illegal aliens who graduate from high school in New Jersey.
In California, students protested against proposed federal legislation. Police arrested more than 30 protesters in San Diego.
In Houston, Texas, a high school principal decided to fly the Mexican flag over his school. Then hundreds of students in the district walked out of classes carrying Mexican flags, doing so, we are told, to protest illegal immigration legislation. Specifically the Sensenbrenner bill passed by the House. The school district quickly ordered the principal to take the Mexican flag down and restore the American flag.
Residents in Jupiter, Florida, were shocked, surprised to see a Mexican flag flying over their condominium community when they awakened Sunday morning. Someone had replaced the American flag and then cut the ropes on the flagpole. Managers say they need to higher a boom truck to replace the ropes and put back the stars and stripes.
Still ahead here, I'll be talking with Mexico's ambassador to the United States about a host of these issues under discussion at the trilateral summit here in Cancun.
And a special report tonight on the deadly diseases at the border and illegal immigration. Why the levels of tuberculosis, hepatitis and leprosy are surging along border.
We'll be right back.
Stay with us as we continue to report live from Cancun, Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: One of the all but unexamined consequences of illegal immigration is the free flow of diseases across borders as well. People seeking legal residency undergo routine physicals to screen out dangerous diseases. But with 3,000 to 8,000 people each day streaming across our borders illegally, many of those diseases are making an unfortunate comeback in the United States.
Christine Romans has the report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, with illegal immigration, once vanquished killers are being carried deep into this country. Diseases like tuberculosis.
Even as overall cases of TB declined the Centers for Disease Control says a deadly drug resistant strain is spreading, easily crossing borders. At the U.S. border with Mexico, TB rates are twice as high as the rest of the country/
Indeed, if the 24 counties that share a border with Mexico were the 51st state, they would rank seconds in TB cases, third in deaths due to hepatitis, and fifth in diabetes-related deaths.
And now a drug resistant TB strain is spreading, notably to states that are magnets for illegal immigration. The CDC says seven states account for 60 percent of the cases: California, Georgia, Illinois, New Jersey, New York and Texas. Most cases come from Mexico. A smaller percentage from Asia.
Now, long a staple of border counties, public health authorities fear the diseases like TB are spreading silently and tracking and treating these diseases is becoming more difficult. In Los Angeles County, for example, each TB patient can infect up to 12 others who all must be tested. That's a big challenge when the emergency room is the first point of contact for many people illegally in the country. And follow-up treatment is critical and can take as long as six months.
TB is just one of nine communicable diseases that our government screens for among legal immigrants -- syphilis, HIV-AIDS, leprosy, among others. But there are no screening at our porous borders -- Lou.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much.
Christine Romans.
Time now to take a look at your thoughts.
David in New Jersey wrote in to say, "I am sick and tired of hearing President Bush say that illegal immigrants do jobs Americans won't do. This is insulting to Americans workers -- past and present -- who built this nation. Americans are willing to do any job when they are fairly paid for doing the work."
And Allen in California is saying, "It is odd being an American citizen. If I want a job, I must submit to a background check, a criminal check, security check, credit check, and reference check just to receive a paycheck. Yet, if you're an illegal alien, all you do is jump in the back of a pickup truck for a day of illegal pay. What's wrong with our country?"
And Jan in California, "Vicente Fox says the millions of illegal aliens are improving our economy. So why doesn't he keep them there then?"
An interesting thought. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We're going to have many more of your thoughts coming up here later.
Up next, the Mexican ambassador to the United States is our special guest tonight. We'll be talking about the issues under discussion here at the summit.
Big business interests in the United States and Canada are fighting a new U.S. policy that would require passports to enter the United States from Canada. We'll report on why big business is pushing their own interests this time.
And we'll tell you how you can make yourself heard to House and Senate leaders on the critically important issues of illegal immigration and border security.
We'll be right back, live from Cancun, Mexico.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion.
Once again, live from Cancun, Mexico, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: We're reporting here from Cancun, where the leaders of the United States, Canada and Mexico are discussing an agenda that includes trinational economic integration and a broad regional border security perimeter. President Bush today meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper -- in fact, that meeting, as we're told right now, just wrapping up. We'll hear from the president just as soon as that meeting does end.
Other top stories in the news today. The Pentagon has confirmed the death of two our servicemen in Iraq. An improvised explosive device killed an airman during military operations near Baghdad. And a soldier with the 9th Naval Construction Unit in Anbar province died from wounds sustained in enemy action.
Two thousand three hundred and twenty six of our troops have now died in Iraq, 17,381 of our troops have been wounded. Of those, 7,987 have been wounded so seriously, they cannot return to duty.
Kidnappers released American journalist Jill Carroll in Baghdad today. She walked into the offices of the Iraqi Islamic Party with a letter asking for help. Kidnappers held her for nearly three months. Carroll was unharmed.
Iran rejected the United Nations' demand to stop enriching uranium. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is meeting with Russia, China, and European allies, pushing for stronger action against Tehran.
In France, protesters are promising more demonstrations after the Constitutional Council approved a controversial labor law. Millions have been protesting in the streets over that proposal to give employers leeway to fire employees who are under the age of 26 without cause.
Tonight, big business in the United States and Canada are fighting hard against new security measures that could help prevent another terrorist attack. These business interests are putting their special interests ahead of U.S. and Canadian national security.
Katharine Barrett has the report tonight from the U.S.-Canadian border in Blaine, Washington -- Katharine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHARINE BARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty miles south the Canadian border, even McDonald's flies the maple leaf flag. Commuters, shoppers, day trippers, just some of over a million people each day who cross the northern border. And yet fewer than half of all Canadians have passports, just two in 10 Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I see your ID, please?
BARRETT: Businesses on both sides of the border worry, coming federal requirements that all who enter the United States must carry passports will cost them money.
KEN OPLINGER, BELLINGHAM/WHATCOM CHMB. OF COMM.: What we most fear is that people who don't currently have passports are simply not going to get them and stop making the trips over border.
BARRETT: A Canadian study found those lost trips might cost the United States $785 million in business. Canada could lose $1.7 billion. Oplinger says requiring passports would cost his county several million dollars in retail sales and taxes without making the country safer.
OPLINGER: You can go to North Dakota, for instance, and drive for 300 miles, and not only not see another person, not see another building. I mean, if I want to get into this country through Canada to do harm to us, there are a number of places I can cross and not have to actually talk to someone and come up with some identification.
BARRETT: He leads a group of Canadian and American businesses lobbying against the proposed new passport requirements. Instead of costly passports or pass cards, the group wants to make secure driver's licenses an acceptable travel document.
And it's not just people, but goods, that could be snarled. Time is money in the trucking business. That industry fears the cost and red tape of getting passports for all its drivers.
PAUL LANDRY, BRITISH COLUMBIA TRUCKING ASSN.: We are experiencing a driver shortage, and a lot of drivers are very reluctant to cross the border, simply because of the documentation requirements and that sort of thing.
BARRETT: Thousands of truck drivers now pass the border with a fast card, verifying their identity, nationality, even a background check. The trucking industry says it is just as secure as a passport.
DON ALPER, WESTERN WASHINGTON UNIV.: The real solution is not building bigger walls or creating these new impediments, but the solution is closer intelligence cooperation between the countries, and making sure we have very competent, well-trained, smart border officials.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BARRETT: It was one such smart custom's officer who caught the most notorious terrorist nabbed on the northwest border just about six years ago. So-called millennium bomber Ahmed Ressam was caught here in Washington state. He had with him a Canadian passport -- Lou.
DOBBS: Katharine Barrett, thank you very much.
The United States has formally accused communist China of restricting auto part imports from the United States. The case filed with the World Trade Organization says China imposes tariffs to discourage imports and to help Chinese auto parts makers. The communist Chinese government has explicitly targeted auto parts as an industry that it will dominate globally. Last year, America's trade deficit with China was a record $202 billion.
Coming up next, I'll be talking with the Mexican ambassador to the United States.
And how many special interest groups benefit from the approval of amnesty for illegal aliens? We'll have the answer for you in our special report next, as we continue from Cancun, Mexico. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're reporting to you form Cancun, site of this year's trilateral summit among the United States, Mexico and Canada.
I talked with Mexico's ambassador to the United States, Carlos de Icaza, and asked him what we should expect as a result of these trilateral talks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARLOS DE ICAZA, MEXICAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: We need, in North America, to have a more resilient economy. We need to be stronger in faces of the challenge on security nowadays, and this is a very important step. We have had a lot of success; we're trade partners.
We have, with Canada and the U.S., the biggest trade on Earth. We are cooperating a lot on security issues, but we have also to build a vision for our future, to be able to compete in face of the challenges of Asia and globalization.
DOBBS: You're talking in that case about a customs union -- that is the thinking of some people -- in terms of the three nations?
DE ICAZA: No, I am speaking about integration. I am speaking about more business opportunities. I am speaking about taking advantage of our complementarities in ingenuity, in resources, in population, and to see how we can have North America more secure and prosperous.
DOBBS: Border security: critically important to the United States ...
DE ICAZA: Indeed.
DOBBS: ... border security, as well. The discussion here about extending the perimeter to the borders of all three nations, rather than that of each individual nation -- is that, in your judgment, a practicable idea, and a wise idea?
DE ICAZA: We have to think for the future. Today, what we are trying to do is to work with law enforcement officers among the three countries, sharing information, see how we can work together.
We face big challenges from organized crime, from terrorism, and so looking at our borders and how we can do better, I think it's a good idea for the future. Now the specifics, this will have to be worked out in the time.
DOBBS: The devil is usually in the details in public policy.
DE ICAZA: That is quite right. But there is political will to go ahead.
DOBBS: You say there is political will, but in the United States, one of the great conflicts is, that every poll, that I'm aware of or have seen, shows the people of the United States opposed to illegal immigration, opposed to guest worker programs, and greatly concerned about border security and a host of other issues.
Yet the policies of the U.S. Congress and this president, George Bush, are running exactly counter to that. How will one find a manifestation of that will, other than to look at the polling that we're seeing and, one hopes, some expression in the upcoming elections in both your country and ours in November?
DE ICAZA: We do have a lot of evidence of that goodwill. First of all, since the first day of the administration of President Bush and President Fox, we agreed that immigration is a shared responsibility, and that the biggest challenge we face is working together to have an immigration flow between our countries that is legal, safe, secure, dignified and humane.
Now, how can we do that? And what evidence do I have of this political will? The first and foremost is that I spoken with people in Washington, with lawmakers, with politicians in the White House and the Congress. And now this issue has come on the top of the agenda.
A country that is reviewing its own policy, and a debate that is so important for everybody involved that it taking place now, we appreciate it a lot in Mexico, the courage of American lawmakers of the White House, of everybody involved, looking at what is not working and seeing for the future, and about stories and about polls.
I have seen other polls as recent as January. "Time" magazine came out with a poll in saying which most of Americans favor a guest worker program. And a guest worker program is important because it will take pressure out of the border.
We can concentrate on working together in fighting against smugglers, traffickers. And last, a guest worker program makes sense because it builds a legal avenue, and legality is a key issue to face this challenge.
DOBBS: I think one of the frustrations for many Americans is they do not understand President Vicente Fox saying that he is most interesting in legalizing his citizens as American citizens, that he is more than eager, it seems, to send just about 10 percent of the population of this terrific nation to the United States.
This is confounding, and great concern is expressed from nearly all quarters on the spectrum in Washington or in Congress, that if there were a guest worker program, even if that is acknowledged, there is no way to guarantee that another -- whether one takes the number 11 million or 20 million -- illegal aliens will be entering the United States over the next five to 10 years.
DE ICAZA: First of all, let me clarify the position of President Fox and my government. Our position is that we are your partners, that this issue requires international cooperation. We're having a big challenge about this, and we can work together. This is the message of cooperation.
Now, how can we work together? If there is a guest worker program, we bring out into the open the need to regularize the migration flow between the two countries, and not only between Mexico and the United States. There are other countries involved.
Last year, we deported, at our southern border, 250,000 people to Central America. So the way to work out this together is that when you are ready to have a guest worker program that corresponds to the reality of the economy, than we can concentrate on our end of the line.
We can do background checking. We can do training. We have had a guest worker program for 30 years with Canada, and it works very well. Why can't we do it with the U.S.?
DOBBS: It seems to me that one can't reform immigration -- no matter what one styles the program, guest worker program, any number of considerations. But one cannot reform immigration if that nation cannot control immigration. And that nation can't control immigration unless it controls its ports and its borders. The United States is far from being able to do that.
DE ICAZA: Every country in the world, including United States and Mexico, has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. What is happening here is that your economy is demanding 500,000 low- skilled workers every year. And for that quantity, you're only giving about 5,000 permanent visas. If there is a guest-worker program, and it's a legal avenue to have the migrants that economy needs, then we can concentrate on other things that are so, so important at the border.
DOBBS: Would the government prefer that those workers -- whatever the number may be -- the migrant workers, that is, returning to Mexico as citizens, or would they prefer they become U.S. citizens? It seems remarkable to most Americans that the government of Mexico would want them to leave their country and become U.S. citizens.
DE ICAZA: Absolutely not. The government of Mexico does not promote migration, and least of all, undocumented migration. What the government of Mexico -- and every Mexican -- wants, is to have circularity there.
We have had migration between the U.S. and Mexico for more than 100 years, and the past 20 years of enforcement only measures, which an attempt (ph) enforcement is necessary, has had the unintended effect of causing so many problems at the border. It is so hard to get in, that then they're fenced in, and instead of going back and forth, then they're some very big problems. So, our sense, and our position, is that we can work this out together. We are neighbors; that will not change. And this is a message of friendliness, of neighborliness. And no, sir, no country in the world can think about its future, sending its best people outside. What happens is, no matter how well we do, your economy is 15 times the size of my economy. So there's a great magnet here.
DOBBS: A great magnet. Security is important. Why has the government of Mexico not been more vigorous in stopping its people from crossing that southern border?
DE ICAZA: We are being very vigorous in working with our American counterparts in fighting against smugglers, traffickers, those who are taking advantage of our people. We have offered that, if there is a guest-worker program in the U.S., we will do our end of the line. And part of our end of the line is making sure that people go south through legal channels.
What is happening today is because so many people are coming, attracted by the economy, we don't have the legal channel, so it's very difficult to enforce together an idea of a migration flow that is legal, secure and safe.
DOBBS: Mr. Ambassador, good to talk with you.
DE ICAZA: It's a great pleasure.
DOBBS: Appreciate it.
DE ICAZA: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Ambassador Carlos de Icaza, and we want to thank the ambassador for taking the time here to express the views of the government of Mexico.
Coming up at the top of the hour, we're going to hear the expression of a number of other views. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer coming up. Wolf, tell us about it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou, good program.
An American hostage held in Iraq walking free. Were there any behind the scene deals made? We're going to take a closer look at the negotiations.
Also, immigration and the Republican divide. Senator John McCain. He's here in "THE SITUATION ROOM," supports guest workers. We'll ask him why.
Plus, nuclear Iran. My exclusive interview with the Iranian ambassador to the United Nations, a rare interview indeed. We're going to ask him some of those tough questions.
And the 9/11 plot. New details on how the terrorists pulled off the deadliest attack ever on U.S. soil. All that, Lou, coming up right at the top the hour.
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight. The question is, do you believe the final version of the congressional immigration reform legislation should include a guest worker amnesty program? Yes or no, please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here in just a few moments.
Still ahead, special interest groups, like corporate America, labor unions, a Catholic Church -- they stand to benefit from the approval of amnesty for illegal aliens. We'll tell you what happens to them, not what happens to working men and women in the United States, however. They're not in the equation. That special report is next, as we continue our coverage from Cancun, Mexico. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: There is a pro-amnesty lobby that is generally supportive of the immigration reform bill now being debated on the floor of the Senate. But even that lobby is not entirely supportive, because some of them say the bill goes much too far by involving local law enforcement. And others argue that it goes far too far because it would require immigrants, illegal immigrants in most cases, to assimilate into American society.
Bill Tucker reports from New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The National Council for La Raza warns that the immigration bill now on the Senate floor might lose its support. Senators Cornyn and Alexander planning to go ahead and offer an amendment to that bill. In a memo making the rounds on Capitol Hill from a staffer at La Raza obtained by LOU DOBBS TONIGHT shows the group is adamantly opposed to the amendment.
It states, quote, "while it doesn't overtly mention assimilation, it is very strong on the patriotism and traditional American values language in a way which is potentially dangerous to our communities." And there are signs that support from other groups is conditional. They oppose adding enforcement provisions that would involve local law enforcement.
MARSHALL FITZ, AM. IMM. LAWYERS ASSOCIATION: It's basically the federal government saying to the states that, look, we've got a big problem. We haven't been able to handle it. We've abdicated on our obligations. And now we're handing this to you.
TUCKER: Meanwhile, members of the House made it clear, the Senate's bill is in for a fight, calling it out of line with public sentiment.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: Is America asking anybody? Are they asking any of us up here or any of their elected representatives? Yeah, some are. Some business representatives are asking for open borders and greater flow of cheap labor. Some labor unions are asking for it. Some of the more radical pro-immigration groups are asking for it. But John Q. Citizen doesn't want it.
TUCKER: But the U.S. Chamber of Commerce does want it, saying a guest worker program is essential to employers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, Lou, late today, the memo from La Raza that made the rounds on Capitol Hill today created such a stir that La Raza felt moved to issue a clarification, and in fact sending a letter of apology to Senator Lamar Alexander, saying their position had been unclearly communicated.
La Raza saying in fact, it does support the goals and aims of his legislation of learning the English language and embracing the responsibilities of American citizenship. And, Lou, they pledged to work with Alexander and Senator Cornyn in passing legislation that supports those goals.
Back to you.
DOBBS: To be clear, Bill, repeat that clause of that memorandum.
TUCKER: The email that went around today, Lou, made a point to say that it doesn't overtly mention assimilation, meaning the Cornyn- Alexander legislation, but that it's very strong in patriotic and traditional American values language. Now, La Raza says that is a part of an email chain, a discussion, if you will, that was going on, on the Internet, and that in fact, their position is, they do support English language learning and they do support embracing the responsibilities of American citizenship.
DOBBS: So in other words, they're backtracking and running from this as fast as they possibly can?
TUCKER: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: Bill Tucker reporting from New York, thank you.
Well, you have a chance to be heard on the issue of illegal immigration and the issue of border security. You can email House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. I'm sure they would love to hear from you. You can go to the following Web sites.
For Speaker Hastert, go to house.gov/hastert. For Senator Frist, go to frist.senate.gov. And you can let your senator and representative know how you feel as well. You will find the link to their Web site on our Web site. We believe in participatory democracy. Go to LouDobbs.com. We'll help you in any way we can.
President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox have known each other since George Bush was governor of Texas. The White House portrays the two as having a close working relationship. That contrasts with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper. White House press secretary Scott McClellan couldn't even remember the prime minister's name at a pre-summit press briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Talking about Canada? I mean, the president had a good -- first of all, had a good discussion with Prime Minister Martin yesterday. That was a call that Prime Minister Martin had initiated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Prime Minister Harper, I believe he meant to say. We know he meant to say, that's Stephen Harper. The three leaders visited the Mayan ruins today. There were handshakes all around, though Prime Minister Stephen Harper was again the odd man out, and President Bush and Canadian Prime Minister Harper had wrapped up their bilateral talks here in Cancun just a short distance from here.
The prime minister, Prime Minister Harper, the newest man in, and of course President Vicente Fox, the first out. Elections to be held here in Mexico on July 2nd.
We'll have more of your thoughts coming up. The results of our poll, and take a look at what we have planned here tomorrow. What the president, the prime minister and the president have planned. Stay with us as we report live here from Cancun, Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now what we've all been waiting for, the results of our poll tonight: 92 percent of you responding that you do not believe the final version of the congressional immigration reform bill should include a guest worker amnesty program.
Well, it's time to take another look at your thoughts. Samantha in Arkansas writing in to say -- "Illegal aliens occupy the East and West Coasts of America and are moving inward. I wonder if they're drafting a guest worker program for Americans."
Michael in Texas -- "Many of us, all of whom came from the seeds of immigration in our family trees, celebrate our heritage. But our forefathers did it legally, wanting to become U.S. citizens. They weren't waving the Mexican flag. They weren't lawbreakers. These illegal immigrants belittle the very heritage we all enjoy and admire."
Kathy in Nevada -- "Lou, I know you will get their feet to the fire while down Mexico way. You're just about the only one who will. Good luck."
And finally, Jack in Texas -- "Lou, with President Bush in Mexico, any chance we can secure our borders while he's on Mexican soil?"
Not a chance. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. And we appreciate you being with us. That is our report for tonight from Cancun, Mexico. I'm Lou Dobbs. Good night from Cancun. Thanks for watching. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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