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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Fierce Fighting in Al Anbar Province; Gasoline Prices Soar Across County; Americans Are Sick Of Hearing Illegal Aliens Are Taking Jobs They Won't Do; China Has Mastered Art Of Double Standards; Dana Rohrabacher; Story Of Captain Daniel Van Kirk
Aired April 21, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, one of our Marines has been killed in Iraq. Iraqis still don't have a new government, and our government isn't giving us their plan for success in Iraq.
We'll have a special report tonight from the most violent Iraqi province, and we'll be going live to the Pentagon.
Also, gasoline prices are soaring in this country. In some areas, more than $4 a gallon. In some parts of the country, drivers can't find gasoline at any price.
We'll have that report.
And we'll examine tonight the political impact of skyrocketing gasoline prices. Who should pay the political price?
Also tonight, Congress returns to work next week. Will the Senate try to pass immigration legislation when the United States can't even control its borders and ports? Congressman Dana Rohrabacher is among our guests here tonight. He says the Senate is considering pure guest worker programs sprinkled with a heavy dose of amnesty.
And President Bush frequently asserts we need a guest worker program because there are jobs, as he says, that Americans won't do. Well, Mr. President, we found plenty of Americans who are proud to be doing those jobs.
We'll have that special report, and you'll meet some of those people here tonight.
All of that and a great deal more straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Friday, April 21st.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, American casualties in Iraq are rising as Iraqi politicians struggle to form a new government. Insurgents have killed one of our Marines in Al Anbar province, west of Baghdad -- 2,381 of our troops have now been killed in Iraq, 50 troops have been killed in the first three weeks of April, nearly double the number of the whole of March.
Meanwhile, in Baghdad, Iraqi politicians finally selected a new candidate to be prime minister after months of deadlock.
Arwa Damon reports from Ramadi, the capital of Al Anbar province.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Downtown Ramadi, in Iraq's Al Anbar province, is in shambles. It is one of the most dangerous cities in Iraq. Ground Zero is the area around the provincial governor's compound.
Less than two hours after this patrol returns, the compound is attacked. Many Iraqi and U.S. officials say the political stalemate in Baghdad is a big part of the troubles in Ramadi and elsewhere across the country.
The governor of Al Anbar province, Mamoun Rashid (ph), says people need to be convinced the new Iraqi government is going to work, and going to work for them. A challenge four months after elections in December, and still no sign of what they risked their lives to vote for.
Malia (ph) is sick with worry. Her 12-year-old daughter, Fatima (ph), stopped going to school. "If it stays like this, then there is no hope," she says. "What is this life?"
American officials say Iraqis need to step up in the fight against insurgents before things will change.
COL. JOHN GRONSKI, U.S. ARMY: They are starting to provide more and more information to the Iraqi army, as well as the coalition forces, on who the insurgents are because they are certainly ready to get on with the normal way of life here and to move forward with a good government, a good economy.
DAMON: A reliable government that must prove itself before most Iraqis will risk their lives to support it.
ADNAN PACHACHI, ACTING PARLIAMENTARY SPEAKER: Merely establishing a government by itself is not enough. I think this government has to do certain things in order to, you know, produce results and reduce the level of violence.
DAMON: It's up to these men to fulfill their promise, to put together a unity government that works, so that these people can start to believe they can have a better future that's worth risking their lives for.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Ramadi, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The number of Americans that have been wounded in Iraq has risen sharply. 17,648 American troops have now been wounded since this war began three years ago. Of those, 8,099 have been wounded so seriously they can't return to duty.
American officials hope political progress in Iraq will help defeat the insurgents and allow the United States to withdraw significant numbers of troops. But critics say there's a serious risk that sectarian violence will escalate into full-scale civil war.
Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins me now.
Jamie, what is the Pentagon's mind, at least as to what constitutes success in Iraq?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, we put that question again today to Pentagon officials about the benchmarks for success. They have no new benchmarks, just the same old ones, standing up Iraqi troops and the creation of a unity government.
Now, Pentagon officials did hail the decision by Ibrahim al- Jaafari to step aside in favor of his deputy as a good step in getting toward that unity government, but privately they confess frustration that it's taking so long for a government to get in place.
Meanwhile, as you note, the violence continues to rise in Iraq. And just this week, one of Washington's preeminent military thinkers, Anthony Cordesman, issued a scathing report called "The Litany of Errors in Iraq" in which he decried everything from the false rationale for the war to the gross underestimation of the nationalism and ethnic tensions in Iraq.
He concluded, though, there was little more for the Pentagon to do. Here's his conclusion.
"The U.S. cannot go back and change its behavior in Iraq, and in many cases it cannot now compensate for past errors. Its best hope is to pursue the strategy it is already pursuing in spite of risks that at best offer an even chance of limited success."
The Pentagon says the center of gravity in this fight is not really in Iraq but in the United States. And Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld continues to pound his point that it's just going to take patience and perseverance with this strategy.
So, Lou, no change of course from the Pentagon. Just a continued emphasis that they have to persevere in the face of the difficulties that they're encountering.
DOBBS: That is simply another articulation of something the president has said throughout, as well as this administration, Jamie, stay the course. But if the statement really means that our generals, that our Defense Department, the command staff, the general staff of the United States military, have no new approaches, no new strategies, how in the world do they expect to succeed against an insurgency that they have continuously underestimated for three years?
MCINTYRE: Well, I mean, the problem is, many of the mistakes they've made, as Cordesman points out in his very clear-eyed view of the problems in Iraq, are very difficult to go back and undo. The question about whether or not more troops initially would have made a big difference, the question of whether disbanding the Iraqi army was a big mistake, it's too late for those.
DOBBS: Yes, to be clear, Jamie -- I should be clear. I am certainly not in any way looking at this issue, this critical issue with nearly 2,400 American lives lost retrospectively. The mistakes that are made are made. I couldn't agree with anyone more on that.
But what I'm talking about is a future in which we have 150,000 American lives still at risk in Iraq. Going forward, this is the best that our best military minds can come up with?
MCINTYRE: According to the Pentagon, this is what the U.S. commanders believe is the most likely strategy for success, and they say it's just going to take time.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
In Afghanistan, insurgents have killed one of our soldiers. The soldier killed when his patrol came under enemy fire in central Afghanistan.
Two hundred eighty-one of our troops have now been killed in the war against the al Qaeda and Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan.
The National Intelligence director, John Negroponte, says Iran's resumption of uranium enrichment is what he calls troublesome. But he insists Iran is still years away from being able to build a nuclear weapon. Negroponte said Iran may not have enough fissile material to build a bomb until the next decade.
The Iranian president, for his part, has a lot to be pleased with as crude oil prices closed over $75 a barrel. Gasoline prices now almost $3 a gallon as a national average. In some places, however, gasoline stations are charging even more. Others have run out of fuel altogether.
The war on the middle class is intensifying.
Louise Schiavone reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This tank right here is $50, which is, like, hopefully that can last me at least two weeks. I don't know. I've got to try.
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More and more, people are worried that the rising cost of filling up is just the leading edge of the rising cost of everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It makes everything more expensive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's terrible the way the price has gone up. SCHIAVONE: Not to mention spot shortages in some areas due to fuel reformulations. Economists agree that gasoline prices in the range of $3 a gallon and more present clear inflationary pressures that will almost certainly affect the way Americans live.
BEN CARLINER, ECONOMIC STRATEGY INST.: There's a lot of whammies that are going to hit the American consumer. I mean, you've seen rising energy prices, rising real estate prices, rising health care costs. If you want to send your kid to college, you know, prices have been going up there, too.
SCHIAVONE: Last fall, the Urban Land Institute calculated a typical family spent $8,000 a year on transcription costs. Back then, lots of middle class families were able to swing the cost of homeownership by stepping up to long commutes. But that could be changing.
BOB DUNPHY, URBAN LAND INSTITUTE: I would guess that this maybe is the time when the bloom might be off the rose for those folks that were -- that are just so far out on the extremes that it made the land deals work.
SCHIAVONE: How severe will it get? Phillip Swagel, formerly of the Bush Council of Economic Advisers, doesn't foresee gas lines and 20 percent mortgages.
PHILLIP SWAGEL, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INST.: There is a danger. If inflation creeps up, the Federal Reserve will take action, will raise interest rates to head off those inflationary pressures. And that will hit everyone in the pocketbook. Everyone's credit card, people's mortgages, people's car loans, home loans, everything will be affected.
SCHIAVONE: And that will dampen consumer confidence across the board.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, most agree the U.S. has been caught off guard. Cars too big, developments too sprawling, corporate salaries too plush -- the challenge now to adjust, and it won't be easy -- Lou.
DOBBS: Louise, thank you very much.
Louise Schiavone from Washington.
Still ahead here, President Bush says there are jobs that Americans won't do as justification for his guest worker amnesty program. We went looking for those jobs the president was talking about, and we'll introduce you to the Americans we found who are doing those jobs.
Also, the federal government says it's cracking down on illegal immigration, illegal aliens, and the employers who illegally hire them. But is it simply catch and release under a new slogan? And when we deport them, what keeps them from coming right back? We'll have that report.
And three of the country's top political analysts join me to discuss illegal immigration, soaring gasoline prices, and something called a midterm election.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Supreme Court hears arguments next week on an important case that involves illegal alien workers in this country. The Supreme Court will take up a class-action lawsuit filed by current and former workers at floor products firm Mohawk Industry.
The lawsuit claims Mohawk knowingly hired hundreds of illegal alien workers with the intent of driving down wages for its American workers. Mohawk says it had no idea it was hiring illegal aliens. The Supreme Court will consider whether Mohawk can be prosecuted under RICO racketeering laws for their employment of illegal alien workers in this case.
The Department of Homeland Security tonight claims it's finally cracking down on illegal aliens in the workplace and those who hire them. The Homeland Security Department says Wednesday's arrest of almost 1,200 illegal alien workers at IFCO Systems plants all across the country is proof of its newfound commitment to workplace enforcement.
DHS critics, however, say Wednesday's action was the same old DHS catch and release program. Many of those illegal aliens arrested at IFCO plants were released within hours with orders to appear in court at a future date. One illegal alien worker interviewed by a Houston television station, in fact, said even he was surprised by how quickly he was processed and sent back on the street.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials say they have no figures on how many illegal aliens were caught and then released during this operation, but they do confirm that some illegal aliens had to be released from government detention centers because the centers had run out of beds for them.
ICE officials say 275 illegal aliens caught in the operation were deported. They say the operation also points out their new commitment to prosecuting employers of illegal aliens.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today reiterated one of the president's most common refrains about illegal aliens and their impact on American workers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: He has proposed that there be a temporary worker program that would allow people who have work that Americans will not do to find a way to stay in the country legally. (END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Jobs that Americans won't do. We've heard that a lot. Tonight, hard-working Americans apparently are sick of hearing that illegal aliens are taking jobs that Americans won't do. Not only do Americans want these jobs, they're performing them with dedication each and every day, as Lisa Sylvester now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Richlands, Virginia, is a small mining and farming town. Here you will find lots of folks doing jobs that President Bush says Americans won't do.
Mark Newburry works from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 in roofing. He and his co-workers know there are illegal aliens willing to take their place for a lot less, $2 to $3 an hour.
MARK NEWBURRY, CONSTRUCTION WORKER: I don't like it. They're taking our jobs. They work for nothing.
SYLVESTER: The American roofers worry about a guest worker plan supported by President Bush.
Jim Tatum thinks about his son.
JIM TATUM, TATUM'S ROOFING & GUTTERING: My biggest concern, and I'll go back to it again, is mainly my kids and grandkids. You know, if we bring 30 million immigrants in here, that's my main concern. Is he going to have a future, is what I'm trying to say.
SYLVESTER: Melissa Houchins is a housekeeper. She takes pride in a hard day's work. She does not buy the argument that Americans are somehow too lazy.
MELISSA HOUCHINS, HOUSEKEEPER: Nobody should feel too good to do this kind of work, because we do it every day. I don't think that people from other countries have to be brought in to do it. We can do it.
SYLVESTER: Diane Justice works across the street at the Waffle & Egg. She's a testament that Americans will do any job that pays enough to put food on the table.
DIANE JUSTICE, RESTAURANT WORKER: I've done dishes, I've waited tables, I've run the register, I've been a hostess, I've been a cook. Anything that needs -- I've even swept the parking lot.
SYLVESTER: Like many towns, Richlands' residents have struggled over the years.
PHYLLIS FIELDS, COOK: Because there are a lot of people here that really needs jobs, and if they bring people out of town to do it, then it's going to cut the ones here out of jobs.
SYLVESTER: The last thing the town needs are more workers chasing after fewer jobs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Monday, the Senate is scheduled to take up where it left off on immigration reform before the congressional recess, and supporters of amnesty intend to introduce a new bill despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans oppose giving illegal aliens the same rights as U.S. citizens -- Lou.
DOBBS: Yes, and Senator Kennedy, others, saying that they are simply following the will of the American people. You wonder what in the world they're talking about. You wonder what President Bush is thinking about when he says, in a country where we still retain a strong work ethic, the idea that there is some job that we do not respect, or that person who does that job, no matter how low-paying, if we have in this country lost the respect for a man or a woman doing any job then god help us. I mean, and to hear the president talk like that...
SYLVESTER: Quite frankly, I think it's very insulting to these workers. There are people who get up every day in this country, they go to work. They're very happy with what they do.
And for the president and for other people, Secretary Rice, to come back and to say these are jobs that Americans won't do, when clearly we see these are jobs that Americans want to do and are doing, well, you know, it speaks for itself.
DOBBS: And want to do as well at a reasonable, decent living, respectful wage.
SYLVESTER: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester, thank you.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe the president's "jobs Americans won't do" phrase is an insult to American citizens? Yes or no?
Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll be bringing the results later in the broadcast.
Coming right up, the president of communist China says he's all for increased trade with the United States, just as long as it's not free or fair trade. A special report on communist China's dangerous double standards, not only in trade.
Also tonight, who is staying and who is going at the White House? New uncertainty tonight about just who will survive the White House shake-up. Three of the country's very best political analysts join me here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Communist China's president, Hu Jintao, today wrapped up his American visit with a speech at Yale University. President Hu again promised to cooperate with the United States, but again, he offered no specifics and certainly no concessions.
The Chinese president's next stop is Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter, of course. China is the world's second largest oil consumer after the United States. And China is aggressively trying to win oil resources all over the world.
China's also trying to expand its military ties with South Korea, a close ally of the United States, of course. The Chinese defense minister this week meeting with top south Korean officials, including the South Korean president.
At the same time, China has sharply increased the number of reconnaissance flights near Japan. Japan has scrambled fighter aircraft more than 100 time this year, trying to intercept those Chinese spy planes. That's the highest number in more than a decade.
With its rise in global, economic, political and military power, communist China has mastered the art of double standards, pretending to play by the rules, but in reality, especially when it comes to commerce, doing exactly what it wants and what it can get away.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Hu was at Yale University today. Even though the school motto is "Light and Truth," the Chinese president was shedding little of that, only telling the audience what they want to hear.
HU JINTAO, CHINESE PRESIDENT (through translator): We will vigorously promote social and economic development, protect people's freedom, democracy, and human rights according to law.
PILGRIM: Not exactly. In recent years, China has put down rural demonstrations with violence and has jailed dozens of journalists in recent months.
John Kamm have been actively advocating for human rights in China since 1990.
JOHN KAMM, DUI HUA FOUNDATION: In the area of civil and political rights, we're not seeing much progress. And one could argue that in important areas we're actually seeing backwards movement.
PILGRIM: In trade, China also plays a double game. It has deluged the U.S. market with manufactured goods made in factories where workers earn pennies an hour. But China also restricts imports from the United States and China complains the U.S. doesn't practice fair trade.
BATES GILL, "CHINA: THE BALANCE SHEET": If you look across the range of commitments which China has made on a host of issues, whether it's nonproliferation, for example, commitments to comply with its WTO obligations, commitments on human rights, often -- oftentimes these don't get enforced at local levels, and that's a big problem.
PILGRIM: President Hu this week said progress on intellectual property rights will take time, yet China has been able to quickly track dissidents through the Internet, putting them in jail. Religious freedom and right to assembly are restricted. Members of the religious sect Falun Gong and traditional organized religions are still persecuted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, as with the visit of President Hu, China, however, seems more interested in creating the appearance it is a world power rather than making real progress to becoming one -- Lou.
DOBBS: And again, in this imbalance, whether it comes to trade or the degree to which the United States supports the buildup of the communist Chinese military, the blame rests squarely with American leaders, U.S. business leaders, U.S. political leaders, without question.
PILGRIM: It seems so.
DOBBS: OK.
Kitty pilgrim, thank you very much.
The CIA fired an officer for revealing classified information to an unauthorized person in the news media, as people in the news media want to be. An agency spokeswoman says, the officer admits to willfully sharing classified intelligence, and the matter is turned over to the U.S. Justice Department.
The Justice Department is conducting its own investigation of leaks concerning the administration's warrantless wiretapping and secret CIA prisons. The CIA says its leak investigation continues. This arrest is just the beginning, they said.
Time now to take a look at your thoughts.
A viewer who would like to remain anonymous writes us from Japan, "My husband and I are both serving in the armed services abroad and are enraged and dismayed at the thought that everything that we're fighting for is being given away."
Bill in Maine said, "Don't you just love it when the government tells us that there is low inflation as long as we just don't eat, drive or heat our homes?"
And Jo Ann in New Mexico, "I think that if the minimum wage is good enough for the middle class, then why not pay all the senators and congressmen minimum wage?"
Leo in Connecticut, "There's another word that will get our elected politicians' attention besides elections. It's recall."
And Gary in Florida, "It's quite evident the Republican 'Contract with America' has become the contract on America."
And Tony in Indiana, " Does anyone in Washington realize that our enemies are waging a devastating economic war against us? They may not be able to bomb us with stealth fighters, but they sure are hitting us where it hurts, our pocketbooks."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later in the broadcast.
Next, gasoline prices soaring. The White House stalled. I'll be talking about the political costs with three of the country's leading political analysts.
And Congressman Dana Rohrabacher joins us tonight. He says the president has lost all credibility on border security and illegal immigration. The Republican congressman is among our guests here tonight.
And in "Heroes," our weekly tribute to our men and women in uniform, we'll meet the leader of the first tank platoon to storm Iraq.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist tonight is calling on the Senate to pass a comprehensive immigration bill by Memorial Day. Frist remains committed to legislation that would tighten border security and legalize millions of illegal aliens.
But aides say tonight that Frist will seek $2 billion in immediate additional spending for border enforcement in the legislation. That money would then be used to train new Border Patrol agents, build new detention centers for illegal aliens, and buy new Border Patrol helicopters and border surveillance aircraft.
As Congress returns from its latest two-week vacation, the American public's disillusionment with Congress is at record levels. In a new poll by the Pew Research Center, 53 percent of those surveyed would like to see most members of Congress defeated in November.
Joining me tonight to cast their own votes, former White House political director Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin of the "New York Daily News," and our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Ed, it's remarkable, the Senate majority leader calling for comprehensive immigration legislation with border security even.
ED ROLLINS, FMR. WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIR.: You have got the first half of that bill right. I mean, the reality is, if he wants to get anything through, he can get a border patrol, border security, and he can get some money for that. But he's not going to get the alien portion of it, the illegal alien portion of it done in this Congress. I think he'll lose everything if he tries.
DOBBS: Do you agree, Michael?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I do. And I think that clearly something is happening now. I think the momentum has shifted back to the border control issue. And I think that Howard Dean has said something yesterday about today.
DOBBS: Howard Dean for crying out loud ...
GOODWIN: Of all people.
DOBBS: The leader of the Democratic Party -- at least the RNC saying has he accused President Bush of using illegal aliens as scapegoats, now border security first?
GOODWIN: That's right. I think that's a little ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Here we go. Here's the ...
GOODWIN: And I think ...
DOBBS: "The first thing we want is tough border control. We have to do a much better job on our boarders than George Bush has done." You go, Howard Dean. We've been saying that here for literally two, three years.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: And it's had an impact, Lou. I mean, it has really made -- this has become a virtually universally held belief in Congress now that border patrol has been to be increased. However -- but the problem with the 11 or 12 million illegal immigrants who are already here ...
DOBBS: Or 20.
TOOBIN: ... or 20, or whatever the exact number is, that, I guess, Congress is just going to throw up their hands and do nothing about.
GOODWIN: I think there's -- I mean, I had a conversation with Hillary Clinton about it, and she's talking more about border control and perhaps even a time lag between the two issues.
So I think that there is a momentum moving, and I think the break did a good thing and I think that the Congress is coming back hearing that -- particularly in the swing districts, people do not want amnesty and those who go for amnesty in those swing districts especially will be penalized.
ROLLINS: I think in an election year, I believe they should break the bill into two pieces. I mean, I think they can get the first piece. I really think we do have to seal the boarders first and foremost and then A, try and figure out who is here and what can they do. And that's almost like a mini-census in which you almost have to give them some assurance you're not going to grab them and throw them across the border. But at least you then know whether it is 10 or 20 million people, and then you try and deal with this, and the only way you're going to deal with is in a bipartisan way.
And you're not going to deal with it in a bipartisan Congress. You may take some members and put them on a bipartisan commission, but the recommendations have got to have cover from both parties, otherwise it's going nowhere.
DOBBS: When you said cover, and the idea that we would see the United States Senate and the United States House do something so rational, so sensible, as to understand there's such a thing as border security and port security because of the interest of the United States, the protection of the American people. Four-and-a-half years after September 11th, what kind of idiot, except in Washington, D.C., would not understand that?
GOODWIN: Well, it's funny. I mean, it's hard to describe how it got this far, but suddenly it does seem to be turning before our very eyes. I mean, even the Homeland Security crackdown as much as -- it's already started. Now, we'll see if it is catch and release, but ...
TOOBIN: There are signs that -- I'm sorry.
GOODWIN: Let me -- I mean, I think that if there are signs in that direction across the country, then you have a real momentum shift, and what looked like an amnesty program becoming inevitable just two weeks ago I think is now stopped dead and the tide is turning.
TOOBIN: There are signs that this is a democracy, and when people respond ...
DOBBS: Let's hang onto those signs.
TOOBIN: No, that's right. And, you know, when the Dubai ports deal, you know, blew up in the Bush administration's face, there was a response to that, which is that port security is something people care about, that so few containers are inspected. And Congress, it appears, will have some kind of reaction -- maybe not entirely appropriate, but at least some kind of reaction -- in a way that is responsive to what people want.
GOODWIN: But something must have happened during the recess. I think that a lot of them heard ...
DOBBS: You suppose they heard from their constituents?
GOODWIN: I think that's what happened, yes.
ROLLINS: Oh, I think they heard form their constituents. And one very positive thing in the Frist bill -- as you mentioned a week ago when we were all here, there's no money. The Sensenbrenner, all the rest of it, is an authorization. They now have to spend real money, and $2 billion may be a start.
It may be $10 billion by the time we're finished. But who cares? At the end of the day we are spending billions and billions of dollars a day in Iraq. We're spending billions and billions dollars.
DOBBS: $400 billion, 2,400 lives.
ROLLINS: And Americans want their borders sealed. And if you look at any public opinion poll, once you get through Iraq, which keeps getting more and more important, immigration has moved to a very, very close second.
DOBBS: It's -- and to remind people of what we said, when you watch those senators on Capitol Hill Thursday just about two weeks ago stand up and say they had come to compromise legislation, if I may be pardoned for the unforgivable, quoting myself, I said they were lying to the American people and perpetrating a fraud because they hadn't appropriated a dime for border security, not a dime for the administration of any so-called reform.
Let's see what game they try to run, and we'll be back with these gentlemen. Just two seconds more of our panel ahead here.
Also Congressman Dana Rohrabacher joins us. He will not be attending President Bush's speech on immigration reform next week. He'll be here to tell us why.
And in tonight's "Heroes," the story of Captain Daniel Van Kirk, one of the first U.S. Army soldiers to fight the enemy in Iraq three years ago. He almost didn't make it out alive. We'll have his story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Back now with former White House political director, Republican strategist and consultant, Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin of the "New York Daily News," and senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin of CNN.
Jeffrey, let me start with you. We're seeing a situation which is Alan Mollohan is stepping off, the leading Democrat, the top Democrat on the House Ethics Committee under a cloud. Go ahead.
TOOBIN: I said it's an old story in Washington. People come to do good, and they stay to do well. He did very well in real estate investments near -- federal spending that went into his district, and politically the problem for the Democrats is the culture of corruption -- Tom DeLay, Duke Cunningham -- to the extent it's bipartisan with people like Mollohan lessens its impact in November.
ROLLINS: The more important thing, though, is it this is a committee for 16 months hasn't even had a hearing with all the chaos going that's going on, and the potential of several members being indicted in the very near future, and they've not bothered to basically begin the process. They can't get together and Attorney General Gonzales several weeks ago said in a speech, if it doesn't start doing its job, the Justice Department will do its job. So changing Berman for him is not going to make a whole lot of difference, unless they actually start getting aggressive and start going after some of these people.
DOBBS: Oh, and the Senate, vigorous and tough on itself in trying to clean up with all that's facing the House. I mean, this is a sad, sad joke.
GOODWIN: Well, and I think the public is onto it. I mean, that's the good news here is that I think the members of Congress are finding out that while the president is held is very low esteem, so are they. And so I think there's no real advantage to either party, and so I think that's the good news here, that people are onto it, that the money washing through Congress, these individual deals people are making doesn't smell good right now.
DOBBS: Aren't we briefly clinging to some optimism here about democracy working and we're sitting here talking about a president with an approval rating of 33 percent, Congress at 30 percent and both the Senate and the House dealing with corruption?
GOODWIN: The public is pretty smart about it.
TOOBIN: But I mean, in November you may see the public speak out. I mean, the fact is the districts are so gerrymandered in the House that big change, like in 1994, I think is almost out of the question. But some change and some incumbents being voted out is likely to happen.
DOBBS: Wouldn't you like to hear that collective voice across America, go ahead Congress, make our day? So I am going to hang onto that.
ROLLINS: What is happening? And I totally agree with Jeff that the reapportionment has made it difficult to have a big sweep. But you have got a whole bunch of them frightened. And they were cocky a year ago. They now have done polls. They see where they were sitting at 50, 60 percent, they're down at 30. They're a very nervous Congress.
DOBBS: Well, they have got even more to be nervous about with a war. For the Republican side in particular, with a war that is not going well in Iraq, with new challenges in Afghanistan, and with gas prices now, with all that's going on. Gas prices now rising with a Congress and a president who couldn't put together an energy policy. They're no different than the previous administration in that regard.
But they're killing working men and women and their families in this country. What's going to be the reaction? What should be the reaction?
GOODWIN: Well, I think the reaction in Congress will be that if they both feel the heat, they will become bipartisan in nature. They will get things done such as immigration. If they don't feel the heat, then I think they will go their different ways. And when you hear someone just attack, attack, attack, I think the public is tired of that. And so I think the public is being heard. It's premature. Nothing has been done yet, but I think it's beginning.
TOOBIN: There's also a possibility for a virtuous circle here, which is if you do something about our demand for gasoline, if you do something raising the miles per gallon requirement of the fleets. You also might do something about global warming, which several generations from now is probably going to be the issue that we are going to be most blamed for doing nothing about.
DOBBS: Well, that would be the long intended consequences coming to rest, or a virtuous circle as you put it, but the idea that we're even having this discussion...
ROLLINS: The other part of all of this is not only that people walking in and paying $3 plus for a gallon of gas, you see the record profits and you see the record compensation package for these executives.
DOBBS: Which is 400 million.
ROLLINS: Four hundred million and so...
DOBBS: A man has to get by.
ROLLINS: Even if it's nothing but jaw boning, which would certainly make some of these people cower a little bit, I think it's very, very important. You just can't say, OK, this is the way it is and live with it.
DOBBS: And where the heck is the national media in all of this? You know, I find it amazing the reporting, the journalism, whether it's energy prices, whether it is the well-being. You will see more stories about the anecdotes about illegal aliens crossing into this country, living here, you'll see more stories about the wealthy and their $400 million retirement packages.
You don't see the stories about a family of four working their butts off to get by. I don't see that in "The New York Times." I don't see that in "The Washington Post." Why not?
GOODWIN: Well, I mean, I don't know. But I like your story tonight, Lou, on the Americans who are doing the jobs supposedly that Americans won't do. Because I think that is the essence of this country, is working men and women. And until we sort of celebrate those people too and protect them, I think we are going to go down the tubes.
And I think that there are people who are working hard every day for eight, nine, 10 dollars an hour. Those are the people who are struggling in this country, and they do need help.
DOBBS: And where are they going to find it? Democratic Party? The Republican Party? I don't think either party is recognizable to those who are proud to call themselves members of those respective parties, even four or five years ago. Do you, Ed?
ROLLINS: No, I don't. And I think to a certain extent, there's been a great polarization now for five or six years in this country, and the parties don't mean a whole to anybody anymore. It's like National Football League. It's the national conference. They all play football. They all think they play politics.
TOOBIN: It's all inter-league play. I never thought about it.
DOBBS: The metaphor has risen beyond me. I'm going to say thank you very much Jeffrey Toobin, Michael Goodwin and Ed Rollins. As always, thanks gentlemen.
A reminder now if you would to vote in our poll, do you believe the president's 'jobs Americans won't do' phrase is an insult to American citizens? Yes or no. Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here in just a few minutes.
Up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks Lou.
Lots coming up. We have an exclusive interview with the woman who heckled the Chinese president yesterday. Wenyi Wang just appeared to face charges in federal court here in Washington, and now she'll join us live here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Plus, gas price outage. Is it profiteering or simply supply and demand? Some northeastern gas stations are shut down today because of shortages.
Also, a CIA officer is fired for leaking information to "The Washington Post." Did the officer compromise national security, and what's next?
And tonight, we could be on the verge possibly at least of a breakthrough in Iraq. What could it mean for the White House and what could it mean for U.S. troops in Iraq?
All that, Lou, coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Thank you Wolf. Looking forward to it.
Coming up next here, as immigration agents crack down on businesses hiring illegal aliens, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher asks why did it take so long. He's our guest here next.
And in "Heroes," we meet an army captain who battled Iraqi tanks under constant threat of chemical attack in the advance to Baghdad. We'll have his story next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush is set to give a speech on illegal immigration reform in Irvine, California, this coming Monday. One man who will not be there is Congressman Dana Rohrabacher. The congressman says President Bush has lost all credibility on the issue. Congressman Rohrabacher supports the Sensenbrenner border security legislation and says, quote, "all we have in the Senate is pure guest worker programs sprinkled with a heavy dose of amnesty."
Congressman Rohrabacher joins us tonight. Good to have you here.
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Lou, and thank you for the good work you're doing on this issue.
DOBBS: Well, thank you.
And the idea that the Senate is going to take up Senator Frist tonight, calling for comprehensive immigration reform. The president is going to talk Monday. Here we go. What's going to happen?
ROHRABACHER: Well, everything I've seen coming out of the Senate is nothing more than an insult to those of us who are concerned about illegal immigration, and it certainly is a betrayal of the interests of the American people.
From what I can see, they've taken out the beefing up of the border aspects, which they were talking about before, and all they've left in there is basically a guest worker's program that would bring normalization of someone's status. You can call that amnesty, which means you'll have 10 to 20 million more illegals heading in our direction.
So I think what the Senate has done is a disaster. It's going to make things worse, and our president still seems to be totally out of touch with what's going on to the American people with this massive flow of illegal immigration.
DOBBS: Well, let's turn to Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff. He plans to hire 171 more workforce enforcement agents. He has asked Congress to get routine access to social security records. Is this is a sincere move or is this a coordinated administration maneuver in advance of the call for more -- for the Senate to move ahead on amnesty?
ROHRABACHER: Well, I am hoping that what we see here is an evolution in the president's policy towards illegal immigration. But it's coming so late in the administration, it's hard for people to give credit to President Bush on this issue.
By the way, I am very supportive of the president on many other issues, especially the issue of our war against -- with radical Islam, and I'm trying to support him as much as I can. But the fact is, this is a security issue, too. Illegal immigration, and if Mr. Chertoff is now beginning to work on this in this area, it will be -- I applaud it.
DOBBS: Well tell me this, Congressman. The war on radical Islamists, terrorists, how in the world four and a half years after September 11th, can this president, this Congress, this Department of Homeland Security look the American people straight in the eye and say four and a half years later, we still cannot control our borders. We still are not inspecting cargo into our ports. How in the world -- how in the world can the president do this? How can his administration do it?
ROHRABACHER: Well I certainly agree with you that this administration has not -- I wouldn't give it at an A plus on the issue that you just outlined, but I would say that we have made some progress.
DOBBS: Again, the other end of that bell curve, Congressman.
ROHRABACHER: But nowhere near as much as we should have. The criticism is justified.
DOBBS: Well that being the case, why is Ed Rollins, and I think you surely know him, suggested that the House and the Senate take up two separate issues. One, first establish border security and port security. And then once that's done, take up so-called immigration reform. What do you think of the idea?
ROHRABACHER: Well, I have been in favor of having separate votes, because we need to get the border security issue settled ASAP. And we are way behind the curve on that.
However, I don't want to see other issues like, for example -- I want to make sure employers -- we have a good bill in the House. There's no reason not to pass that bill. Employers in that bill have to call into the system and verify that their employees are here legally or their new hires are legal residents. That shouldn't be put off.
I think that what we need to do is understand that what's coming out of the Senate is an insult to the American people. It will make things worse. The House has passed a good bill, and those people who are unwilling to support a measure as strong as what we passed in the House, should be held accountable by the voters in the next election.
DOBBS: And if our audience reaction is any indicator, Congressman, it looks like there's a very good likelihood they will. Congressman Rohrabacher, good to have you with us. We appreciate it.
ROHRABACHER: Thank you for being the Paul Revere of our times on this issue.
DOBBS: Thank you, Congressman. I'll take the compliment and run. Thank you, sir.
Still ahead here on our tribute to our men and women in uniform, "Heroes." Tonight you'll meet the army officer whose soldiers began the ground war in Iraq. He almost didn't make it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: And now our weekly tribute to our men and women in uniform, "Heroes." Tonight the story of Captain Daniel Van Kirk, the soldier who led the first army tank platoon into Iraq four years. Casey Wian has this story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Daniel Van Kirk had been in charge just three weeks when he took the first tank platoon into Iraq.
CAPTAIN DANIEL VAN KIRK, U.S. ARMY: It was a pretty important honor to be able to know that you're going to be taking, you know, the rest of the U.S. forces across the border, you're leading the way.
WIAN: Leading nervous troops initially outfitted in protective suits anticipating an Iraqi chemical attack that never came.
VAN KIRK: Everybody is scared to go into war like that. Not many of us knew what to expect.
WIAN: They found out soon enough. Van Kirk's platoon headed the third infantry division's charge to Baghdad when the enemy first appeared.
VAN KIRK: About 250 meters in front of us were two tanks on the road, and my gunner -- I've got my head out the cupola, so about a vision block about that big. And I didn't see them before he saw him. He said I have two G-72s in front of us. I said, "Are you sure?"
WIAN: Then Van Kirk saw them with his own eyes.
VAN KIRK: I gave command of fire at the first tank. Loaders already loaded up a second round, gunners already on the second tank on the right. And we shot the second round.
WIAN: What they thought were two Iraqi tanks actually were four. Van Kirk's lone tank squad destroyed every one of them.
VAN KIRK: My one tank facing off against an enemy platoon, basically because we were stuck on that road, and we're talking like under 20 seconds they were -- the enemy was destroyed. It was just that clockwork, that quick.
WIAN: Van Kirk received the bronze star for bravery.
VAN KIRK: If it weren't for those men, first platoon bravo company, none of this would have happened.
WIAN: Kirk's wife Michele is not surprised.
MICHELE VAN KIRK, WIFE: He would do anything to protect his men. That was the most important thing to him.
WIAN: Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Captain Van Kirk was about to deploy to Iraq a second time when he was called for further officer training. He's now with the army's sixth recruiting brigade out of Las Vegas, Nevada.
The results of our poll tonight, 96 percent of you say the president's "jobs Americans won't do" phrase is an insult to American citizens.
Let's take a look at more of your thoughts now.
Sandra in Ohio: The United States has become an anything for a buck nation in terms of national policy. There is no interest in protecting American workers or their futures by this White House.
Teresa in Texas: President Hu is looking out for China and its best interest. I have absolutely no problem with that. That's what he should do. What I want to know is how do we elect him to be president of the United States so we can finally have someone to look out for our best interest?
And Bruce in Connecticut: We're regarding the trade deficit with China and trying to get China to purchase more products from the United States. What products? Everything in the U.S. is made in China.
And Janice in Montana: Lou, when did Vicente Fox and Hu Jintao become co-presidents of the United States? Bush seems more concerned about the economic well being of the people of China and Mexico than ours.
And Chuck in Texas: Lou, I keep hearing the administration and Republicans bragging about a growing economy. Are they talking about China's growing economy? The only thing the middle class sees growing is the cost of living, the cost of gas and our anxiety over keeping our jobs.
And Allen in Michigan: Lou, if paying the high price of gasoline results in changing the balance of power in Washington, come November, it might just be money well spent. The middle class needs a wake up call. This might just do the trick.
And William in Kansas: If President Bush gets invited back to China, should they play the Mexican or the U.S. national anthem?
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America."
Thanks for being with us tonight. For all of us here, we wish you a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York, thanks for watching. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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