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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Tries To Sell CIA Director Nominee General Michael Hayden To Congress; Rising Skepticism Among Voters About Medicare Prescription Plan; U.S. Border Patrol Accused Of Telling Mexican Government Location Of Minutemen Volunteers; Soaring Price Of Gasoline Creating Renewed Interest In Alternative Fuels; Illegal Alien Amnesty Movement Can't Agree What Comes Next; Illegal Aliens May Help Take Away Congressional Seats
Aired May 09, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, President Bush, facing the lowest approval ratings of his presidency, is struggling to win support for any of his policies, from the war in Iraq and the nuclear confrontation with Iran, to his Medicare prescription plan and illegal immigration.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Tuesday, May 9th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The Bush White House tonight is struggling with some of the most important and urgent policy challenges to the United States. Administration officials appear unable to convince a rising number of critics and political opponents that President Bush has a strategy for success.
George Bush faces the lowest poll numbers of his presidency. One poll this week showing his approval rating at just 31 percent.
Suzanne Malveaux reports tonight from the White House on the Bush administration's efforts to deal with Iran's nuclear defiance. Andrea Koppel reports from Capitol Hill on the president's efforts to sell his nominee to be CIA director, General Michael Hayden, to Congress. And Bill Schneider reports from Washington on the rising skepticism among voters about the president's Medicare prescription plan.
We begin with Suzanne Malveaux at the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the U.S. does not want Iran to get hold of a nuclear weapon, but right now the United States and its allies are still split at the U.N. Security Council over how to ensure that that never happens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice over): After Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent President Bush an eight-page letter, White House officials said, do not expect a reply. The first direct communication between any Iranian leadership and the U.S. in nearly three decades was dismissed by senior administration officials as no more than a publicity stunt.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called the letter an attempt to change the subject, an attempt to throw the international community off course from what it's actually discussing. Rice is in New York pressing her counterparts at the U.N. for an agreement on a resolution, demanding Iran abandon its nuclear ambitions.
While Mr. Bush did not address the letter directly, he was asked what his administration would do next.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The first option, and the most important option, is diplomacy.
MALVEAUX: The U.S. refuses to engage in direct talks with Iran over the nuclear issue. Instead, it continues to push its allies to punish Iran with diplomatic or economic sanctions if it refuses to cooperate.
BUSH: It's very important for the Iranians to know they will be isolated in the world.
MALVEAUX: But some Middle Eastern scholars say it may be the United States that becomes isolated by refusing to at least appear to respond to Ahmadinejad's correspondence.
TRITA PARSI, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: The more the Iranians are showing themselves willing to talk, the more difficult it's going to be for the United States to convince its allies to agree to punitive and very costly sanctions, because they are going to go back to the United States and say, hold on, if we're going to agree to sanctions, you have to agree to try diplomacy first.
MALVEAUX: Other analysts agree with the Bush administration that this letter is not a serious diplomatic gesture.
KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The letter that Mr. Ahmadinejad sent to President Bush is full of claims and questions which, whether you like Mr. Bush or don't like him, you have to recognize are going -- are calculated to insult him. There is nothing in that letter that I think the White House would look at and see as anything other than deeply offensive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And one scholar tonight put it this way: he called it boilerplate Iranian rhetoric. It doesn't change the fact, Lou, however, that the international community is still split over how to deal with the regime -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you.
Suzanne Malveaux, reporting from the White House.
As Suzanne reported, the United States and other major powers tonight are deeply divided over how to deal with Iran's nuclear defiance. The United States, Europe, Russia and China failed to agree on a U.N. resolution to force Iran to suspend its nuclear weapons program. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today said all the major powers agree that Iran must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons, but she admits the diplomats need more times to discuss tactics to stop Iran's nuclear program.
In the war in Iraq, insurgents have killed three more of our soldiers in separate attacks. All three soldiers were killed by roadside bombs, the insurgents' most deadly weapon against our troops.
2,224 of our troops have now been killed in Iraq, 17,983 of our troops have been wounded, 8,239 of those troops so seriously wounded they can't return to duty.
Insurgents today killed at least 17 people in a suicide car bomb attack in the northern Iraqi city of Tal Afar. President Bush recently cited U.S. and Iraqi military operations in Tal Afar as a major success in the war in Iraq.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today acknowledged that prewar intelligence on Iraq was wrong. It was a rare admission by the defense secretary, who has been one of the administration's most outspoken defenders of this war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It turns out it was wrong that intelligence. Fair enough. It's a tough business. It's a difficult thing to be right all the time.
And the information was not correct. Does that give one pause? You bet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Rumsfeld also defended the nomination of General Michael Hayden to be the new director of the CIA. Rumsfeld's criticism of General Hayden is "pedestrian and unimpressive" as he put it. Rumsfeld insists the Pentagon is not trying to take more control of the intelligence, perhaps because the Pentagon already controls 80 percent of this country's intelligence budget, although it was only last week that the defense secretary declared that he was not in the intelligence business.
General Hayden today went to Capitol Hill to try to convince skeptical members of Congress to support his nomination. A rising number of Republican and Democratic lawmakers are expressing concerns about the general's experience and his qualifications to lead the CIA.
Andrea Koppel reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's all part of the Capitol Hill ritual for nominees. Questions, waiting to speak with the senator, and then more questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, what do you think of Republican criticism of your nomination?
GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: No -- thank you.
KOPPEL: General Hayden's mission, to win over senators, Democrats and Republicans alike, concerned his ties to the military might be a drawback at the CIA. But when reporters tried to ask Hayden about it...
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: Until we sort of sit down and talk -- go ahead and ask me the questions, but don't be throwing them to the general.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Frist, do you think General Hayden should resign his position?
KOPPEL: The unmistakable message, Republican leaders aren't eager to air their internal disagreements.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You met with the chairman of the Senate Intelligence...
FRIST: OK, thank you all.
KOPPEL: Democrat Dianne Feinstein, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and a fan of Hayden's said she thinks the four-star general should retire before taking on his new post.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: I did make that as a recommendation, just as a recommendation.
KOPPEL: Still, for Republicans like Saxby Chambliss it's more about Hayden's independence than the stars on his shoulder.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: So whether he's got an Air Force blue uniform on or a navy blue suit on with a tie, does not make any difference. It's how he adapts to the civilian side of the intelligence community that's important.
KOPPEL: As for the man considered one of the best intelligence briefers in town, saying little comes easy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you prepared to resign as general in order to take this position, sir?
HAYDEN: I am up here talking to folks. Like I said, I need to understand their concerns and I've not made any decisions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Now, another big criticism has focused on General Hayden's role not just in developing, but in helping to defend that highly controversial NSA warrantless eavesdropping program. Now, tomorrow, General Hayden is scheduled to meet with Arlen Specter, who is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Obviously, he doesn't sit on the Senate Intelligence Committee, but he still has a very, very powerful voice. And, Lou, he has said that if he is not satisfied with the answers that he gets from the administration about this program, he has basically threatened to throw up roadblocks to General Hayden's nomination -- Lou.
DOBBS: Andrea, thank you.
Andrea Koppel from Capitol Hill.
President Bush also facing rising discontent over one of his main domestic policies, the Medicare prescription plan, which the White House considers to be one of the president's biggest achievements. But a new poll shows nearly half of voters say the new program is not working.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Ever see one of those late night TV pitchmen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Atomic explosion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't go here at all. Just release it...
SCHNEIDER: Now here is President Bush today in Florida.
BUSH: I would suggest if you haven't signed up, living in Florida and watching this TV program, or anywhere in the country watching the TV program, I'd call 1-800-MEDICARE, there's somebody there who will help you.
SCHNEIDER: Operators are standing by. The senior senator from Florida, a Democrat, says it may not be so simple.
NELSON: There are 18 companies that are offering 43 standalone prescription drug plans. Each of these different options differs in terms of premiums, cost sharing requirements, drugs covered, and the pharmacy access.
SCHNEIDER: The Medicare Prescription Plan went into effect in January. What does the public think of it? Not much. Only 26 percent of Americans think the program is working. Forty-five percent say it's not. The deadline for seniors to sign up without penalty is Monday. After that, the premiums go up.
BUSH: This is a good deal for America's seniors. I'm proud to have signed the law to modernize Medicare.
SCHNEIDER: What do they think? Not much. Thirty percent of seniors think the program is working. Forty-eight percent say it's not. Democrats see an opportunity. They say that changing the prescription drug plan will be one of their top priorities if they win control of Congress this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: But, wait, there's more! According to the president, if you're a low-income senior who qualifies for extra help, next Monday's deadline does not apply to you -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much.
Bill Schneider.
Still ahead, anger and fury tonight over charges the Border Patrol is tipping off Mexican government officials about the location of American civilian volunteers on our southern border. We'll have that special report.
And the illegal alien open border lobby announces new tactics in its campaign to win amnesty for millions of illegal aliens. We'll be live in Los Angeles with the story.
And three of the country's top radio talk show hosts join me to talk about illegal immigration, the president's slumping poll numbers, and what their listeners are worrying about.
I'll also have some of my own thoughts about what has become the absurdity of the Bush administration's policies on border security and illegal immigration, and, of course, the failure of both political parties to enforce our laws.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, the U.S. Border Patrol is being accused of cooperating with the government of Mexico to advise them of the location of minutemen border patrol volunteers. Border Patrol officials have reportedly tipped off Mexican government officials to the location of those volunteers along the border with Mexico. The Bush administration is obviously placing a much higher premium on cooperation with the Mexican government than enforcing border security or our immigration laws.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Minuteman Project and other U.S. civilian volunteers have been monitoring the Mexican border for a year. Their mission, reporting groups of illegal aliens to the Border Patrol and winning public support for border security. But now there is evidence that Border Patrol officials provided intelligence to the Mexican government about the location of U.S. civilian patrols.
Sara Carter of Ontario, California's "Inland Valley Daily Bulletin" broke the story. SARA CARTER, "INLAND VALLEY DAILY BULLETIN": And I've been receiving so many e-mails and telephone calls because the public is shocked at the fact that our law enforcement officials would be giving locations of civilian groups within the United States to the Mexican government. I think the American people are saying, well, what else are we giving to Mexico?
WIAN: Andy Ramirez runs a border watch group operating east of San Diego. He says his location was known only to the U.S. law enforcement, but details of his operation appear on a Mexican government Web site.
ANDY RAMIREZ, FRIENDS OF THE BORDER PATROL: They are providing actionable intel that's stating what we're doing, where we're at. And if anything, it's endangering U.S. civilian lives. There's only one way the Mexican government could have gotten that, and that's through the Border Patrol.
WIAN: The Border Patrol would not agree to an on-camera interview that LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has learned the agency is investigating whether local officials disclosed the locations of border watch groups to Mexico. The Border Patrol says it does contact Mexican consulates when requested to do so by apprehended Mexican illegal aliens, and it shares information to reassure Mexico that the civil rights of illegal aliens are being protected. The official would not deny that it may have tipped off Mexico about civilian patrols, even when no illegal aliens were involved.
Last year, Minuteman leaders often marveled at how the Mexican government directed illegal alien traffic away from their positions on the border. Now they believe they know how it happened. The U.S. Border Patrol told Mexico where the civilian volunteers were.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The leader of the San Diego Minutemen tells me about three incidents within just the last 48 hours. On Sunday, a man with a machete approached two minutemen, and they chased him back to Mexico.
Last night, a Border Patrol vehicle was assaulted by rock- throwers from Mexico. And just this morning, a man with assault rifle was seen approaching the border fence from the Mexican side.
As the minuteman puts it, the southern border is far too dangerous for the U.S. government to providing Mexico with the locations of U.S. citizens -- Lou.
DOBBS: This is just outrageous that the Border Patrol, that any -- any official of the U.S. government, whether in law enforcement or simply a political attache in the Bush administration would be doing this. It's unconscionable.
What is the reaction?
WIAN: Well, Border Patrol officials are saying that it's not intentional, that the intent is not to tip off the location of the minutemen. The intent is just to comply with the Mexican government's wishes and to show that Mexican illegal aliens are not being mistreated by either the Border Patrol or by civilian volunteers on the border.
DOBBS: And hat's their idea of a defense for this kind of conduct?
WIAN: Well, they are investigating, Lou. We'll see when -- when they come up with more answers to this. And we'll be following that.
DOBBS: Well, there is no question that this administration and its failure to secure our borders and its failure to enforce our immigration laws has to be held accountable. The fact that neither Congress is -- nor this administration seems to want to talk about anything but comprehensive immigration reform, when, in point of fact, we have tons of laws on the books that are simply being ignored by our law enforcement officials, by this administration, and by this Congress...
WIAN: You're starting to see more and more reaction from the American public and more and more indications that a lot of folks in Congress are going to be in trouble come this fall, election time.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much.
Casey Wian.
Tonight I would like to also clear up an outright lie that has been leveled against me by a "Miami Herald" columnist. He's an open borders, illegal alien advocate by the name of Andres Oppenheimer. He is neither particularly bright nor well-informed, and normally I ignore those kinds of columnists, but I just thought, maybe just for the record we ought to straighten it out, because he said in his column that I intentionally mispronounced the name of CNN En Espanol reporter Juan Carlos Lopez during this broadcast coverage of the May 1st illegal alien demonstrations and boycotts.
Now, by the way, I don't deny that occasionally I mispronounce more than just a few words and names on this broadcast. I have throughout my career. But Oppenheimer says I introduced Juan Carlos Lopez "with such an exaggerated mispronunciation -- One Carlos Lopeeeez," as he put it in writing, "that it was hard not to perceive an intentional racial slur."
I love that. Racial slur. This tells you in no uncertain terms the depths of those who are open borders advocates and advocates for amnesty and illegal immigration to the depths they will descend because they frankly have no facts and they have no arguments remaining.
Tonight, I'd just like to replay for you, if I may, the videotape of that introduction to show you exactly how I pronounced his name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Supporters of illegal immigration also rallying in the nation's capital. Juan Carlos Lopez of CNN En Espanol reports now from Washington -- Juan Carlos.
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, hundreds of people came to Malcolm X Park in...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Now, I think I did pretty well, at least by my standards. And the fact of the matter is, judge for yourself.
And as to Andres Oppenheimer, partner, you're a liar, and you ought to be ashamed.
Still ahead, the U.S. alternative energy industry is using 20th century technology to brew 21st century fuels.
New middle class jobs could be created in the process. We're talking about progress here. A special report coming up.
Also, Rupert Murdoch's surprising new political overture to none other than Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
And the illegal alien crisis is jeopardizing this nation's bedrock notion of one person, one vote. We'll be debating tonight whether the United States needs a constitutional amendment to fix the threat to our democratic system. It is real, and it is present.
All that, as well as my thoughts on what is nothing less than the shameful behavior of this nation's elective representatives in enforcing laws and assuring that they are enforced.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The soaring price of gasoline is creating renewed interest in alternative fuels such as ethanol. Ethanol is produced from corn and it can replace gasoline. One community is also betting that ethanol will revive good-paying jobs that have been destroyed.
Bill Tucker reports from Fulton, New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This abandoned Miller plant in upstate New York is making a comeback. Tanks empty for 12 years are about to brew fuel for cars and trucks. It's becoming an ethanol plant, the first in the Northeast. It has not been an easy road.
ERIC WILL, NORTHEAST BIOFUELS: Two years ago, we had the project packaged pretty much as it is today. We had strategic alliances put in place, we had contracts negotiated. We had the pre-engineering done. We had our air permit issued. We were all dressed up and no place to go.
TUCKER: Help came from a most unusual place. Two union locals loaned the project $3 million. In return, they secured a labor agreement for their members.
DAVID DECAIRE, PLUMBERS & STEAMFITTERS LOCAL 73: That was exciting to me, that we could not only get a return on our money, but bring something back from the dead to be useful in the community.
TUCKER: Three hundred jobs will be created to restore the plant, 100 permanent jobs will be need to run the plant, and an estimated 1,500 to 2,000 more jobs will be created in the area.
For Rick O'Shea, a former Miller employee, there's a personal satisfaction as an engineer involved in the new project.
RICK O'SHEA, ENGINEER, RIVERVIEW BUSINESS PARK: For every job that we employ here, there will be other jobs, you know, down the road, truck drivers, railroad people. So hopefully when we get up and running, we'll get some, you know, support jobs back in this area.
TUCKER: The jobs welcome in a region devastated by the loss of manufacturing work, where unemployment runs well above the national average.
(on camera): The economic ripple effects will be felt here, in the cornfields of upstate New York, where plant operators hope to buy as much as 50 percent of the corn they need from local growers.
RON ROBBINS, JEFFERSON COUNTY FARMER: Having a ready-made market, having that demand there day in and day out for that grain will be a huge opportunity for us as corn growers in this region.
TUCKER: Northeast Biofuels hopes to begin producing 100 million gallons of ethanol annually by early 2008.
Bill Tucker, CNN, Fulton, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And that brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question: Which political party, in your judgment, is offering the American people the best resolution of the energy crisis, the illegal immigration crisis, and the war in Iraq? Republicans? Democrats? None of the above?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Let's take a look now at some of your thoughts.
Nick in California wrote in to say, "You keep talking about the country being in fear. What the country should be in is good old hell-bashing fury!"
And Matt in New York, "Frightened is right, Mr. Dobbs. We, the people, really have to step up and step in and write and call our public servants (yes, that's what they are) and let them know what we think." Bruce in Virginia, "Lou, we need to face the facts. We have lost another war, the war to protect our borders. The administration and Congress have surrendered without firing a shot!"
Not yet, in my opinion.
Sue in Michigan, "Hey, how about sending a copy of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence to Congress? They need a refresher course on how we became a great nation."
Not a bad idea.
Send us your thoughts to LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later.
Up next, the illegal alien lobby plans for the next battle for amnesty and settles scores in its own ranks. We'll have that story.
And illegal aliens could be stealing your vote in Congress. I'll be talking with lawmakers, one who wants to change all of that, and one who thinks it's just fine.
And three of the nation's most popular radio talk show hosts join me to talk about the issues of the day. And I'll share my thoughts with you on this administration's absurd response to our lack of border security and our illegal immigration crisis.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The illegal alien amnesty movement can't agree on its next move after last week's demonstrations and boycotts. Illegal aliens and their advocates are committed to pushing ahead with their aggressive amnesty demands. They are in fierce disagreement, however, over how to continue that campaign.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH).
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Next on the amnesty agenda, new tactics in a deepening rift. The split is whether to take to the streets again or to tone it down. The Catholic Church, which opposed the May Day boycotts, now urging citizen immigrants to register to vote, and to send old-fashioned postcards to Congress.
BISHOP GABINO ZAVALA, ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES: A national lobby day, and ongoing voter registration and citizenship drives with the objective of influencing our legislators to bring about a real solution to our broken immigration system.
VILES: Leaders of the new voter registration drive, including labor leaders and Spanish-language radio personalities, denied the May Day protests had backfired and forced them to tone down their demands.
MARIA ELENA DURAZO, L.A. COUNTY FEDERATION OF LABOR: May 1st absolutely helped, because, again, it reinforced the need, the compelling need, to change our immigration laws.
VILES: In Washington, a leading amnesty opponent welcomed the voter registration drive.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: I think it's a positive step, actually telling people they should vote and become part of the process. I think it's a good idea. And, frankly, as I say, I think there's a significant portion of the Latino population in the United States that will vote our way.
VILES: But those who pushed the boycott are hungry for more confrontation. Activist Armando Navarro dismissing the voter registration drive as, quote, "a cop out, an exit strategy," and telling LOU DOBBS TONIGHT rival groups are planning new acts of civil disobedience saying, quote, "we have to be prepared to protect our interests."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: And one place to watch for this next round of protests, San Bernardino, California, where the city council there considering a proposal that would prevent illegal aliens from renting apartments in that city -- Lou.
DOBBS: Just another example, Peter, as you know, of the number of states and communities all across the country that are stepping into the void that the federal government, this Congress, and this president has left in dealing with an illegal immigration crisis.
Pete, thank you very much. Peter Viles.
The Michigan State Senate doesn't want illegal aliens stealing votes from their citizens in Michigan and denying them representation in Washington. The State Senate in Michigan is calling for a Constitutional amendment to change the way in which Congressional seats are apportioned.
Seats are apportioned according to the number of people who live in each state, not the number of citizens, and that is having a huge impact on our political system. States with more illegal aliens are gaining seats at the expense of states with more legal citizens.
Michigan State Senator Jud Gilbert sponsored a resolution calling upon Congress to amend the Constitution, and he joins me tonight from Lansing, Michigan. Good to have you with us, Senator. And State Senator Hansen Clarke opposes the Gilbert resolution, joining us tonight from Detroit.
STATE SEN. HANSEN CLARKE (D), MICHIGAN: It's great being here with you.
DOBBS: Thank you for both being with us. Let me start first -- and just to put forward what we're talking about, we have a map of the country to show what has happened as a result of the 2000 Census, and these are the states which gained and lost seats, based on that census.
The southern and western states, as you see here, with higher populations of illegals, such as California, Florida, and Texas, all gained seats, and those other states represented there, obviously, paying the price.
Senator Gilbert, let me ask you, why would there be any opposition to this concern? Congresswoman Miller, as you know, has been pointing this out for the better part of a year that Congress is being mightily affected as a result of this huge immigration issue and the high levels of illegal aliens in the country.
STATE SEN. JUD GILBERT (R), MICHIGAN: I was very surprised at the level of opposition to the resolution that we took up the other day on the Senate. I think from the standpoint that the citizens that we represent, by this development, are being disenfranchised, and certainly with Michigan losing a seat in the last two censuses, largely attributed to this immigration, whether it's legal or illegal, is certainly a problem. That weakens our voice in Congress.
DOBBS: Senator Clarke, why would you oppose such a resolution?
CLARKE: Well, because in Michigan and in this country, we don't need more politicians. We actually need fewer employers who hire illegal immigrants and the senators calling for a Constitutional amendment, we don't need that. We just need the president to stop allowing companies to outsource our good-paying jobs out of Michigan and out of this country to other foreign countries. That's how we strengthen our economy.
And the reason why I oppose this resolution, it's just a political ploy by Senator Gilbert, his Republican friends, President Bush, to shore up their base, but it does not address the fundamental problems of illegal immigration in this country, which is, employers who exploit these desperate immigrants and hire them into these jobs.
DOBBS: Senator, I couldn't agree with you more. I've just got a question for Senator Gilbert. Are you lining up, are you a crony of the Bush administration's non-immigration resolution policies?
GILBERT: Well, I feel very strongly that we need to secure our borders. And I don't disagree with fact that those employers who hire illegal people in this country need to be addressed. But I think the senator has avoided the very issue that we're talking about. We're not talking about immigration per se. What we're talking about is our citizens having a fair voice in Congress. And that's where we totally ...
DOBBS: Well, I agree with you. Let me ask you both this. Do you think that most of your constituents, do you think indeed most of the people in this country understand that it's very important -- these estimates that we have, anywhere between 11 and 12 million to 20 million illegal immigrants in this country -- do you think that they understand that that means a distortion in the representation in Congress? You both would agree -- Senator Clarke, you would agree that that's also a distortion that's critically important?
CLARKE: Well, our Constitution works well. It protects the ...
DOBBS: Well, Senator, I asked you, do you think that that's a critical distortion, before we move to changing the 14th Amendment. That's a separate question.
CLARKE: No, I don't.
DOBBS: You don't?
CLARKE: What I think is important is that we protect American workers' rights to get good-paying jobs here in this country. We don't need to change the Constitution. We can have 100 more members of Congress in Michigan, it's not going to affect George Bush's inability and stubbornness to stop our jobs from being outsourced.
DOBBS: All right.
CLARKE: We have that already. We've got members of Congress from the senator's own party. The president is exporting jobs out of our state one job at a time.
DOBBS: Hansen Clarke ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Hansen Clarke, Jud Gilbert, I'm sorry. We're out of time. I thank you both. Senator Gilbert, Senator Clarke, and thank you, Senator Gilbert for pointing out in the state of Michigan and to this audience just how critically important this issue is. It's an impact of illegal immigration most people don't even consider. We thank you both, gentlemen.
CLARKE: Thanks for having me on.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll. The question is, which political party do you believe is offering the American people the best resolution of the energy crisis, the illegal immigration crisis and the war in Iraq? Republicans, Democrats, none of the above? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have results at the end of the broadcast.
Reports today that the Border Patrol is notifying the Mexican government of the locations of Minutemen volunteers on our southern border are just further evidence of the absurdity of the policies that the Bush administration is following on both issues of border security and illegal immigration.
President Bush continues to push his guest worker program, and amnesty for anywhere between 11 million and 20 million illegal aliens, and he insists still that nothing less than what he calls comprehensive immigration reform is acceptable. And the lies keep coming from both political parties. This president is not enforcing the immigration laws enacted by Congress, and this Congress is failing in its duty of oversight to demand that those laws be followed. Only a fool, Mr. President, Senator Kennedy, Senator McCain, would believe you when you speak of new legislation.
You don't enforce the laws now. Would you do so if the law were more to your liking? Would you secure our borders and ports? Would you halt illegal immigration? Those are rhetorical questions, only, I assure you. The answers are obvious, obvious because of your conduct.
And many -- as many as three million illegal aliens continue to cross our border with Mexico each year. Enforcement against illegal employers of illegal aliens in this country is all but nonexistent, Mr. President. How do you explain that the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents have all but ended their investigations and inspections of employers that hire illegal aliens? Again, only a rhetorical question, because we all know the answer.
But here is the official record of your sense of duty -- 318 employers out of five- and-a-half million employers in this country have been fined for hiring illegal aliens since 2001. In 2004, only three employers were fined. That is a dismal record, Mr. President, as dismal as the fact that the number of ICE agents assigned to enforce immigration laws in the workplace has declined from only 240 back in 1999 to now less than 100.
The problem in our lack of border security and illegal immigration is becoming increasingly obvious: two political parties that are beholden to corporate America, the largest employers of illegal aliens, and the leadership of both parties who are selling out American citizens in search of cheap labor and political advantage. How dumb do you all think we are? Again, that's only a rhetorical question.
Over the next few days here, I'm going to make a suggestion that I hope may help the leadership of both the Republican and Democratic Parties begin to take some notice of our laws and our expectations that those laws be enforced. And also take at least some notice of the fact that Republicans and Democrats also represent American citizens, not just corporate America and special interests.
Coming up next here, three of the country's most popular radio talk show hosts join me. We'll have a spirited discussion on the continued political missteps of the Bush White House and why Washington still can't find a way to ease the energy burden for this country's working men and women and their families. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: President Bush's poll numbers have sunk to the lowest level of his presidency, as more Americans are questioning more than ever before, White House policy on the conduct of the war in Iraq, illegal immigration and the soaring price of gasoline.
Tonight, three of the country's most popular talk show hosts join me here to discuss what their listeners are saying about what is nothing less than a political crisis at the White House, perhaps a political crisis for the nation.
In the studio here with me, Randi Rhodes -- she's the talk show host on Air America Radio -- and Bob Pickett, the host of "The Open Line" on New York's Kiss-FM; and from Washington, D.C., Chris Core, the host of WMAL AM's "The Chris Core Show." First, good to have you all with us.
Let me begin with you, Randi. These numbers, what do they mean?
RANDI RHODES, HOST, AIR AMERICA'S "THE RANDI RHODES SHOW": Hell froze over. Well, you know, I said when he was at 32 percent freezing temperature, right? And then it went down to 31 percent. Hell froze over.
DOBBS: Chris?
CHRIS CORE, HOST, WMAL'S "THE CHRIS CORE SHOW": I think that we have a lot of real problems in the world. What I said to my listeners today is, whether you like him or don't like him, it doesn't matter. It does not bode well for America to have a president at 31 percent. He can't lead. He can't get anything done.
We've got a list of issues that we need leadership on, and he can't do it until those poll numbers get up into -- well, near 50 percent, if not above.
DOBBS: Bob?
BOB PICKETT, HOST, KISS-FM'S "THE OPEN LINE": Ditto, and I think that the president's legacy is in big trouble, because he's constantly now thinking about what's going to happen to my legacy after my term of office is over? So he's in big trouble, and his legacy is in big trouble as well.
DOBBS: Randi, what do you say if I tell you I'm less worried about his legacy than I am about our current state of affairs in this country?
CORE: Bingo.
RHODES: I couldn't care less about his legacy, because his legacy, no matter what we do now and no matter what he decides to do now, is Iraq. We all know that. He chose war. He's led it poorly. His legacy is Iraq, and that's what he'll be known for, unless of course he goes to war with Iran. And not engaging in diplomacy with Iran, blowing stuff up on June 2nd in the Nevada test site to see how much of a tactical nuke they can, you know, use in Iran ...
DOBBS: To blow up bunkers.
RHODES: ... to blow up bunkers is also likely to be part of his legacy of war. He's a war criminal.
PICKET: Let me tell you why legacy, I think, is important to Bush and why we should be concerned with that, Lou, only because if he is really suspect that his legacy is going to be a long-lasting one, he may engage in some activities that would cause us to take on Iran, take on things that we should not take on economically, and that's my concern.
His overriding issue now is what's going to happen to my legacy after I'm out of office? What can I do now to restore some of the luster to that legacy?
CORE: Well, you know, actually I don't agree with you. I don't think that he's particularly worried about his legacy. In fact, I think he, more than most presidents, aren't so worried about that. The problem with it is, is that -- and I -- and basically what my audience said this morning is pick an issue and be a leader.
Take energy if you want to and figure out how we can be independent from Middle Eastern oil within the next five years. Take immigration, close the border. Figure out something to do with immigration that satisfies people. Figure out what to do with Iraq, but take one of the issues -- it doesn't matter, pick one -- and then be a leader and stand up and say this is what we have to do.
The problem right now is we're not getting leadership on any of these issues and so now ...
RHODES: You know, Chris, we really are.
CORE: ... it's not Randi, it's his base is saying, where'd he go? We need a strong leader.
RHODES: You know why? You know why? Because his base is being duped. His base is not who he plays to. All of these policies benefit one giant thing: corporatism. All of these -- the cheap labor in the immigration issue, the national security issue at the border, not feeling it, not protecting the ports, picking a fight with Iran, bankrupting us in Iraq, money goes missing to the tune of $9 billion -- it's all about corporatism. That is what Bush's legacy will be.
PICKETT: But all three of you ...
RHODES: The corporate president.
PICKETT: But all three of you are assuming that Bush is a rational human being, OK, and he's going to respond in a rational fashion.
RHODES: Well, it's not irrational when you consider they're all interrelated with corporate profits just skyrocketing.
DOBBS: Wait, let's hear Bob out. Are you saying that the president of the United States, in your mind, is not rational?
PICKETT: He's not reacting rationally. I mean, let me give you a good example. The CIA -- you know, whenever you make a choice of a new agency head, don't you vet that choice, and don't you go around and talk to people and say, OK, I'm thinking about appointing Michael Hayden, who's a general, to this office? How would you react and respond to that? Now it's blowing up in his face, and he's trying to squelch some of the congressional opposition to that selection right now.
CORE: But Bob...
PICKETT: ... that's not a rational choice.
CORE: But that goes back to 31 percent. I mean, again, it wouldn't matter if his popularity were at 58 percent, first of all the Republicans would get in line and say this is the guy we want at CIA as well, and the Democrats, at their peril, would decide whether to fight it or not. The problem is, he hasn't got anybody that he can go to that's a safe base at the moment.
DOBBS: As you all know, there is a view in Washington that the president is choosing this fight with General Michael Hayden and the Congress for very specific reasons, knowing that he has about -- he had some of the highest numbers, in fact, in any of the polling on the issue of warrantless wiretapping, which is interesting, and we'll be talking about that.
And we'll be talking about the brilliant ideas that the Democratic Party are stepping forward with as a countervailing influence to what Bob Pickett calls "a president with suspect rationality" when we continue. We have to take a quick break. We'll be right back, stay with us.
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DOBBS: We're back with Randi Rhodes, host of "The Randi Rhodes Show" on Air America radio. Bob Pickett, the host of "The Open Line" on New York's KISS FM, and Chris Core, the host of "The Chris Core Show" on Washington, D.C.'s WMAL radio. Let me turn to you, Randi.
The Democrats, Nancy Pelosi, Senator Reid, they say they want to win at least the House in November and they are going to have investigations on energy, they are going to have -- start opening it all up, maybe even impeachment, that's pretty exciting for the American people to hear from the loyal opposition, isn't it?
RHODES: I think she's downplaying the impeachment part of it, but she is saying they need to do their oversight job which they've not been able to do, when you give the Democrats subpoena power you are giving them the whole oversight ability that they have been lacking and there needs to be an investigation.
DOBBS: Do you think it will really play with the American people.
RHODES: Absolutely. They want accountability, no one understands why corporations have been the base. President Bush made a joke a long time ago. You remember when he said, oh, I'm glad to see that my base is here the haves and the have mores, and it was funny, because it was true. And people want to know why they are being left out on the big American experiment and why we are stuck in the nether world between the ultra-elite and the ultra-poor, and we're just dying in the middle
CORE: Can I weigh on that a little bit?
I think the Democrats will take control of Congress if they just present themselves as the other guys. Because of the combination of oil prices, Iraq, and immigration, all they have to do is not be Bush, not be Republicans. If they want to guarantee that they don't win the House in the fall, then they start talking about impeachment or investigation or subpoena. The American people do not want Congress to start another whole round of investigations.
RHODES: Chris, you don't think the American people want to know if there's gas price gouging and if they've been made the fools again like in California with Enron?
CORE: No. They want to see leadership, they don't want to see partisan bickering.
RHODES: They want their questions answered. I think Congress is capable of doing more than one thing.
DOBBS: Here's the question I want answered. Bob, we have gone through '73, '79, and we've gone through cycles of high prices and low prices, but for 26 years, we've done absolutely nothing on energy, through Democratic administrations or Republican demonstration.
RHODES: It was $28 a barrel for crude.
DOBBS: But the fact is no one has succeeded on the state level or the federal level of proving price gouging. Ever. In this country.
Why won't Democrats or Republicans, this president, this Congress, these Democrats, these Republicans, look straightforwardly into the eyes of the American people and say there is only one short- term solution, and that is to begin conservation.
Why won't they do that?
PICKETT: That's one reason, because of lobbying and big money. The oil companies pump a lot of money into the Democratic and Republican parties every year and especially around election time. So this has a lot to do with money and influence, Lou, quite frankly.
CORE: It also has to do with boogie men. America's always looking for the easy answer. It's the boogie man. It's big oil.
PICKETT: That's a real boogie man.
RHODES: That everybody sees when they go to the pump open a big sign.
DOBBS: I got a radical thought for you, to see if we can reach any kind of agreement. Big oil isn't the boogeyman, big oil is the enabler. The boogeyman is sitting in Washington, D.C. We've thrown away, literally trillions of dollars without developing alternative energy.
We have thrown away billions and billions of dollars more without focusing on a national plan for energy conservation, for transfer of our energy need to non-fossil-based fuel. And we blame big oil and we don't blame the Democrats and we don't blame the Republicans.
RHODES: Let me just remind you of something, when Al Gore was running for president and he was talking about alternative energy and energy independence, they made him into, he practically more of a girl than me -- that wasn't macho. Bush decided to pass a law, that said even if you weren't an accountant, if you bought a heavy SUV, you could get $75,000 this year in a tax write-off. It was such a scam on the American people.
DOBBS: Chris?
CORE: Nixon was able to open doors to China and to Russia because people trusted that he wasn't going to be soft on defense. Bush is the ideal president to push toward energy independence because he comes out of the oil industry, so that's a place where if he would take some leadership and say exactly what you're saying, we need to conserve, but, moreover, we need to have a Manhattan project, if you will, toward figuring out how we can have alternative fuel, and he'd be the guy to do it, because what you're saying Al Gore doesn't have the kind of credibility that George Bush has.
RHODES: Al Gore was completely credible on the issue and Bush is completely not credible on the issue.
DOBBS: Al Gore was in office for eight years and didn't get a darn thing done. So keep the record ...
RHODES: It's not true.
DOBBS: It's absolutely true, Randi Rhodes. Bob Pickett, you're going to get the last word if we have to bring down the gavel.
PICKETT: Here's what makes the American policy on energy conservation and reform so horrendous and ridiculous. If a country like Brazil can develop alternative fuel consumption, why can't America do it?
They are now -- they are not dependent on oil at all. And they made that decision 15 years ago when we should have made the same decision. And it's a tremendous failure.
RHODES: And what is beautiful about it, it's American made, GM and Ford supplied the cars. It's lovely.
DOBBS: We got a host of other issues that are important to -- I know to all of you and to your listeners and to our viewers here. But we're out of time. Bob, Chris, Randi, thank you very much. Good to have you with us. RHODES: A slice of heaven, as always, Lou.
DOBBS: When we come back, we'll continue this slice of heaven. We'll have the results of our poll tonight and some of your thoughts. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Now the results of our poll tonight, 69 percent of you say neither political party is offering the American people a resolution of the energy crisis, illegal immigration crisis or the war in Iraq.
More of you thoughts now. Joe in North Carolina, "We wanted to put a man on the moon and we did it. If we want to secure the borders we can do it. The only thing stopping us is our greed for money and power."
Karen in New York. "I think Congress is more interested in satisfying President Fox than their constituents. Maybe they're running for election in the wrong country."
And Calvin in Virginia. "Let's face it, Lou. They do not want to secure our borders. They love the cheap labor, plain and simple."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We thank you for being with us here tonight. THE SITUATION ROOM will begin with John Roberts in just a matter of seconds. John, tell us all about it.
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