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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Pushing So-Called Immigration Reforms; Troops on Border; Constitutional Objections to Senate's Amnesty Bill; Congressman Sensenbrenner Discusses Immigration Legislation
Aired June 05, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the war in Iraq, record trade and budget deficits, failing public education, illegal immigration, border and port security. Those are some of the issues that the president and the U.S. Senate today did not take up. Instead, they took up the issue of gay marriage and the U.S. Constitution.
Good evening, everybody.
We begin tonight with one of the issues the president did not take up today, our illegal immigration and border security crisis. The U.S. Senate tried to override last-minute constitutional objections to legislation that would give amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. President Bush will also push his amnesty agenda this week. President Bush will tour New Mexico, Texas, and Nebraska, trying to sell his so-called comprehensive immigration reform.
Ed Henry, at the White House, reports on the president's refusal to back down on the issue of amnesty for millions of illegal aliens. Bill Schneider reports on the first congressional race in the country where illegal immigration is the principal issue. And Kareen Wynter reports from Arizona tonight on the arrival of the first additional National Guard troops to our border with Mexico.
We turn first to Ed Henry at the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Lou.
The president is headed back to the border tomorrow, New Mexico, to inspect border control activities, also swear in a new border control chief. He'll be Ralph Basham. He's the former head of the Secret Service.
The jury is out on whether yet another trip down to the border will help the president break the stalemate on Capitol Hill over immigration reform, but it could help the White House in their efforts in trying to rebuild the president's image with another photo op down at the border, just like last month, when he headed down to the Arizona-Mexico border to highlight efforts to crack down on border security.
You'll remember we saw some pictures of the president on an all- terrain vehicle, inspecting border activities. These trips square directly with what "TIME" magazine reported back in April about what they referred to as an informal five-point recovery plan for the president by the new White House chief of staff, Josh Bolten. Point number one on that list, beef up the number of agents along the border, get the president down there to actually take some pictures. And "TIME" magazine quoted one proponent of the Bolten plan as saying, "It will be more guys with guns and badges. Think of the visuals. The president can go down and meet with the new recruits, he can go down to the border and meet with a bunch of guys and go around on an ATV."
Now, White House spokesman Tony Snow today was asked why the president is going on what was termed a road show and why he's not working behind the scenes to try to break the stalemate on Capitol Hill. Tony Snow insisted the president is working on breaking that stalemate, moving those negotiations forward, but he also think it's important to get outside the Beltway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: A lot of times immigration is discussed almost in a vacuum. People have perceptions about immigration, they don't know what border stations look like, they don't know what a lot of these different situations may look like. And it gives the president an opportunity to illustrate and dramatize what is going on.
And also, as you know, members of Congress keep coming back and saying, man, I'm getting an earful from the people back home. Well, this gives the president an opportunity also to converse with the people back home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, after the visit to New Mexico on Tuesday, the president heads to Nebraska, on Wednesday, where he'll hold a Catholic Charities event. The White House says the point there is the president wants to highlight some nonprofit groups, various faith- based organizations that are helping immigrants across the country assimilate within the United States -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, thank you very much.
Ed Henry from the White House.
The first of about 6,000 more National Guard troops to be deployed on our southern border arrived in southern Arizona today. Fifty-five soldiers from the Utah National Guard will spend their next two weeks in Arizona. Not guarding our border, but working on construction projects. Tonight, however, there's confusion in the Pentagon over whether or not these troops are actually part of the reinforcements promised by President Bush.
Kareen Wynter reports from San Luis, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Twelve hours on the job in the scorching Arizona desert heat. Members of the Utah National Guard are literally paving the way to tighter security along the U.S.-Mexico border.
Specialist Nathan Liljenquist is at the wheel, one of 55 guardsmen deployed to the Arizona border crossing in San Luis to bolster security. On this day, as temperatures touched three figures, they managed to put up several hundred feet of fencing.
SPEC. NATHAN LILJENQUIST, UTAH NATIONAL GUARD: Just with the little fence that's been up so far, they told us they've already seen a drastic change in people coming over.
WYNTER: The unit's two-week deployment, a fence-building mission. Troops trained in road construction and electrical maintenance will install high-tech lighting to help spot illegal immigrants, but they won't go after them.
CAPT. TALON GREEFF, UTAH NATIONAL GUARD: Those are law enforcement activities, we don't want them to be confused. And so it's the Border Patrol's responsibility and we take care of the construction site.
WYNTER: National Guard officials say President Bush plans on posting 6,000 troops along several Southwest border states by August, part of what the Bush administration says is an aggressive federal crackdown to stop illegal aliens in their tracks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WYNTER: Lou, I asked one soldier toward the end of a very long day how his first day on the job was. He shrugged and said, "It's all in a days work." Now, his commander, of course, was careful to add that his men aren't just skilled in hauling heavily equipment, for example, but that they come here with a variety of experience. They are aviation experts, intelligence analysts, even Spanish linguists -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kareen, thank you very much.
Kareen Wynter from San Luis, Arizona.
The governors of this nation's four southern border states have now all agreed to mobilize new National Guard troops to secure our southern border. California's governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, ended a long standoff with President Bush last week, agreeing to send about 1,000 National Guard troops from his state to the border.
Texas Governor Rick Perry's office says as many as 2,000 Texas National Guardsmen could be on the border by August. Arizona's governor, Janet Napolitano, has authorized 300 National Guard troops for border duty. New Mexico's governor, Bill Richardson, who has expressed mounting doubts about the effectiveness of the National Guard deployment, has now signed an agreement to send as many as 500 troops to the New Mexico border with Mexico.
New Mexico Governor Richardson will join me here tomorrow evening. We'll be talking about this National Guard deployment and our worsening border security crisis. The U.S. Senate today tried to overcome last-minute objections that could threaten the entire future of that Senate legislation, the pro-amnesty immigration bill. The constitutional battle between the Senate and the House has given opponents of amnesty a new opportunity to block that legislation.
Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes are 62, the nays are 36. The bill is amended.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Senate passed an amnesty bill that now has to be reconciled with an enforcement-only House bill, but the legislation that promises citizenship to anywhere between 12 million and 20 million illegal aliens has slammed into a speed bump. Under the Constitution, revenue bills originate in the House. The Senate bill requires illegal aliens to pay fines and taxes. Or, in other words, raises revenue.
That could open up the bill to what's known as a blue slip challenge. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid today denied there's a problem.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: I don't think that the bill is blue-slippable. I read the Constitution.
SYLVESTER: But many Republicans disagree, saying the Constitution cannot be ignored to ram a bill through conference.
Behind the political jostling over an amnesty guest worker plan is the central issue of control. Which side will dominate the conference proceedings, the House, that takes a tough security approach, or the Senate, which favors amnesty?
DAN STEIN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: And Senator Reid doesn't want to allow additional consideration on the House floor, which attaching the Senate bill to some other House bill would require. And that -- any step that allows more House members to get involved is, in Harry Reid's idea, is bad news.
SYLVESTER: Even if the constitutional issues are ironed out, the bills are so different that some political analysts believe it may be dead on arrival.
AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: It's hard for me to see a conference presenting something to the president that gets signed before the November elections.
SYLVESTER: For some lawmakers like Tom Tancredo, that may not be all bad. They would rather see no bill passed out of conference than a bill that gives amnesty to millions.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SYLVESTER: While the Senate Republicans and Democrats try to address the constitutional issue, the House is expected to appoint its conferees as early as this week. The House leadership, though, is holding firm, opposing anything, Lou, that smacks of amnesty -- Lou.
DOBBS: Anything that smacks of amnesty and anything that does not focus first on border security and illegal employers of illegal alien sanctions.
Lisa, the idea that this Senate legislation, as ill considered -- it's been a public spectacle of disorder and poor management -- the idea that there was no consideration given to the budgetary impact of this legislation, the fact that most of the members hadn't read that 115 pages of amendments, the so-called managers' amendments, and now the issue over revenue elements of this Senate legislation which are required by the Constitution clearly to originate in the House, how is it that the Senate is this messed up?
SYLVESTER: Well, one of the things we've seen -- and critics have pointed this out -- is that the reason why this whole blue slip issue wasn't brought up before the Senate vote is because, as you pointed out, many of the senators simply did not go through the 600- page bill. They voted on this bill without actually reading it. And I think for that they need to answer to the voters.
DOBBS: They're certainly going to have an opportunity, it appears, come November. At least a third of them in the Senate.
Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
We should, just to be clear, point out, it's a 600-page bill, the Senate amnesty bill. But in addition to that, 115 other pages as part of the managers' amendment in the Senate. Better than 700 pages all together. Tough reading, tough sledding. And questionable legislation.
Well, our illegal immigration and border security crisis has become the number one issue in at least one congressional race for the first time. Voters in southern California tomorrow go to the polls. They'll be voting on a special election that many say is a referendum on whether to give amnesty to illegal aliens. This election could set a trend for congressional battles all across the country.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): From protests in border states to local television in states far from the border like Tennessee, illegal immigration is a central campaign theme.
ED BRYANT (R), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: There can be no amnesty for people who come into this country illegally and break the law.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans around the country are facing a hostile political environment this year. Many believe the issue of illegal immigration will help them survive, like Governor Tim Pawlenty, who is running for re-election in Minnesota.
GOV. TIM PAWLENTY (R), MINNESOTA: It's one of the big-spending, tax-raising, abortion-promoting, gay marriage-embracing, more welfare without accountability-loving, school reform-resisting, illegal immigration-supporting Democrats for governor who think Hillary Clinton should be president of the United States.
SCHNEIDER: Some Democrats are fighting back, like senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska, who voted against the Senate immigration bill and supports a longer fence along the Mexican reporter.
Republican Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona takes a tough line on border enforcement. Democrat Jim Peterson invokes the name of Arizona's other Republican senator, John McCain, to criticize Kyl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator McCain's plan says Jon Kyl's immigration plan borders on fantasy.
SCHNEIDER: While Kyl did vote against McCain's immigration bill, McCain is Kyl's campaign chairmen.
In Utah, Republican Congressman Chris Cannon has been forced into a primary by his own party because of his support for amnesty.
Illegal immigration is a big issue in Tuesday's special election in California's 50th congressional district, 30 miles from the Mexican border. Republican Brian Bilbray is running as a staunch opponent of illegal immigration. On the ballot, he identifies his occupation as "immigration reform consultant."
His Democratic opponent, Francine Busby, calls him "Lobbyist Bilbray" to link him to the district's disgraced former congressman, Randy "Duke" Cunningham. Busby tried to use the immigration issue to her advantage Thursday night, when she spoke to a largely Latino audience. The appearance backfired when she was recorded saying this...
FRANCINE BUSBY (D), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: You can all help those.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
BUSBY: Yes. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help.
SCHNEIDER: Busby later called her remark a slip of the tongue, and explained...
BUSBY: ... that I do not support anybody who is here illegally, voting or working on campaigns.
SCHNEIDER: But it's the Independent candidate, William Griffith, running in that race who has been endorsed by local anti-illegal immigration leaders. He's likely to take votes from Republican Bilbray.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: So, with all those cross-currents, the California race looks very close. And it's symptomatic of what's happening across the country. The illegal immigration issue is splitting both parties. And the impact is very uncertain -- Lou.
DOBBS: This -- this appears to be an issue that is now focused as -- in the minds of voters across the country, by November. It is also an issue that, while it is obviously national in scope, Bill, it is also one that is very local. So it combines a very powerful, national issue and powerful local issue as well.
SCHNEIDER: That's because illegal immigrants are spread throughout the country, and you find that they're a matter of controversy in suburban Washington, in Idaho, where there's a large influx of immigrants. They are an issue all over the country, even in places that don't have too many illegal immigrants, because their view is it's an outrage.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, thank you very much. Good to have you here in New York.
SCHNEIDER: My pleasure.
DOBBS: California election law does not, by the way, in case you were wondering, require any proof of citizenship whatsoever to vote. Required is "A person may prove he or she is a citizen by his or her certification under penalty of perjury on the affidavit of registration." In other words, they'll take your word for it.
At the same time, Cardinal Roger Mahony of the Los Angeles Archdiocese of the Catholic Church has been pushing supporters of amnesty to register to vote and pushing a major registration campaign in the archdiocese. Federal election law, by the way, states that foreign nationals who do not hold green cards may not donate or solicit contributions for campaigns; however, they may do other volunteer campaign work.
The Federal Election Commission has never been asked to rule on whether illegal aliens are allowed to work for political campaigns.
Still ahead here, President Bush tries to drive a wedge into his political opposition and unite his own party behind him, of course, while paying little or no attention to issues of national interest. We'll have complete coverage on something called gay marriage and a constitutional ban.
Also tonight, a company owned by Venezuelan businessmen is running some of our elections. Some in Congress are now saying that probably should require some investigation and close examination. We do just that here tonight in our special report.
The House Judiciary Committee chairman, Congressman James Sensenbrenner, joins us here tonight to tell us whether the House and the Senate can reach a deal to deal with illegal immigration and our border security crisis.
All of that and more coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today urged Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage in this country. President Bush, in his White House address this afternoon, said the United States needs this amendment to protect traditional marriage and American families. The president also criticized activists federal judges who have overturned state laws that ban same-sex marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call on the Congress to pass this amendment, send it to the states for ratification, so we can take this issue out of the hands of overreaching judges and put it back where it belongs, in the hands of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: This amendment would require passage in both houses of Congress by a two-thirds majority before being sent to the states for ratification.
The president's address on gay marriage and a ban against such comes as the Senate begins two days of debate on that amendment.
We have two reports tonight. Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash live on Capitol Hill with the very latest for us on the politics of gay marriage. And Bill Tucker reports on the real threats to traditional marriage and family values in this country, threats that the president today did not address.
We begin with Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, nobody thinks that there's a chance that the Senate will get the two-thirds majority needed to actually amend the Constitution. So the obvious question is, why is the Senate Republican leaders, in fact, bringing this up? Well, on the Senate floor this afternoon, supporters of a ban pointed to the states, places like Nebraska and Georgia, where voters overwhelmingly voted to support a ban on gay marriage, but judges overturned the measures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. WAYNE ALLARD (R), COLORADO: Make no mistake about it, traditional marriage is under assault. I say assault because the move to redefine marriage has taken place not through the democratic process, such as state legislatures and the Congress or ballot initiatives around the nation. This assault has taken place in our courts, and often in direct conflict with the will of the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: Proponents of a gay marriage ban say they do think they will get 52 votes this time around, a clear majority for the first time that they say will show they have momentum in the long term. But obviously there is also a short-term political goal here, and that is to try to appeal to conservative voters who are disillusioned with the job that the Republican leaders are doing here in Washington. But Democrats today accused Republicans of putting gay marriage on the agenda to try to divert attention from the issues that Americans really care about, things like Iraq and high gas prices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Will we debate the raging war in Iraq? No.
Will we address our staggering national debt? No.
Will we address the seriousness of global warming? No.
Will we address the aging of America? No.
Will we address America's education dilemma? No.
Will we address the rising crime statistics? No.
Will we debate our country's trade imbalance? No.
Will we debate stem cell research? No.
But what we will spend most of the week on is a constitutional amendment that will fail by a large margin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, actually put this measure on the Senate calendar at the beginning of the session, the beginning of 2005. But, of course, they are not bringing it up until now, five months before the election.
Lou, that is one reason why many conservatives are frustrated with their leaders here, because they feel that they only pay attention to their issues when they are in an election year.
DOBBS: And is there some frustration among the president's base, as best we can judge, that some might say that this president, the Republican leadership in the Senate, are being somewhat cynical and insulting their intelligence by driving a wedge issue into the forefront?
BASH: Well, some conservatives say they are happy no matter when the president -- or, more specifically, the Senate brings this issue up. They say it's long overdue, that this is, for many of them, one of the reasons, just one of the reasons why they voted for Republicans in 2004. But, you're right, others -- not just on this issue, Lou.
This issue, the fact that they see deficit spending here, immigration. They are very upset with the job that leaders here in Congress are doing.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much.
Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
President Bush says gay marriage poses an imminent threat to the American traditional family. But the facts show something different. In fact, those facts show that most marriages that end in divorce in this country do so because of financial problems, not because of same- sex marriage laws.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may now kiss the bride.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ask any divorce lawyer and they will say there are many reasons marriages fail. At the top of that list, financial problems and a lack of communication about those problems.
JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIC POLICY INST.: If you look at divorce rates, they are highly associated with bankruptcies, with loss of job, with some kind of negative shock to the income. So it seems to me that if we want to strengthen families, we ought to be looking at a whole set of policies that this administration has been more undermining than strengthening.
TUCKER: Millions of jobs sent by corporations to lower-cost labor markets, real wages depressed, the costs of education soaring, energy costs climbing. But neither Congress nor the administration is taking up those issues, nor the rising cost of health care insurance.
NANCY ZIRKIN, LEADERSHIP CONF. ON CIVIL RIGHTS: They are spending a lot of time on the House and Senate floor debating this very divisive amendment when we have 43 million uninsured Americans, and they are one serious illness away from poverty.
TUCKER: Nor is Congress looking at out-of-wedlock birth rates, where in Louisiana, New Mexico, Mississippi, Delaware, and South Carolina, the percentage of children born out of wedlock tops 42 percent. The national average is 36 percent.
Only one state currently allows same-sex marriage, Massachusetts, while Vermont and Connecticut allow civil unions. Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia have no laws explicitly banning members of the same sex from marrying.
None of those states appear in the top 10 states with the highest percentage of failed marriages. They are all at the bottom of the list. Currently, 40 states have legally restricted marriage to being between a man and a woman.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TUCKER: Which begs the question, what does the president mean when he says an amendment to the Constitution is necessary because the states are having trouble defining marriage in a way that's acceptable to him -- Lou.
DOBBS: This is a -- an unusual time in Washington, D.C. The idea that the states that are permitting gay unions or gay marriage have the lowest divorce rates, or among those with the lowest divorce rates, and those traditional states are among those with the highest, median family income declining in this country, real wages declining, finances and communication about those finances the principal reason for divorce in this country, half the people in this country, half the families with two income earners in them, those who are lucky enough to have both parents in the same household, single family, single- parent families, on the rise, and we're talking about an amendment to the Constitution to ban gay marriage.
I love Washington, D.C., and I'm sure you do as well. We're going to continue to examine this threat of gay marriage to traditional marriage, this threat of gay marriage to the traditional American family. And we'll also be looking at some of the other principal causes of concern for us all in terms of the threats to traditional American families.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much for that revealing report.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Which of these national issues do you believe is most critical and urgent: gay marriage, illegal immigration, the war in Iraq, border security, perhaps, public education, healthcare?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later in this broadcast.
Coming up, Senator John McCain has issued a "call to arms" in the fight over illegal alien amnesty. We'll have a report on who he is suggesting a call to arms.
And Congressman James Sensenbrenner, the author of the tough House border security legislation, gives us his thoughts here on whether immigration reform is dead this year.
And President Bush says he can help the political fortunes of fellow Republicans, apparently by supporting wedge issues such as gay marriage, or at least a ban of same. Will the president's strategy work? I'll be talking with Republican political strategist Ed Rollins, Democratic strategist Joe Trippi.
All of that and more coming right up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator John McCain, a strong supporter of course of amnesty for illegal aliens. After all, it is the McCain-Kennedy bill. Well, he's urging Hispanic officials to show support for that amnesty legislation that passed the Senate two weeks ago. McCain spoke last week to a group of Hispanic and civic leaders in Orange County, California, where the Senator said, quote, "This is a call to arms for you to rise up and speak for people who can't speak up very well for themselves."
Senator McCain, by the way, though it more important to speak to that group of Hispanic activist leaders than he did to show his support for fellow Republican Brian Bilbray, who is running in tomorrow's special election in California's 50th congressional district. He says there should be no amnesty for illegal aliens. Senator McCain cancels an appearance with Brian Bilbray, although he does support his candidacy.
Well on Capitol Hill tonight, the House and the Senate remain on a collision course over immigration reform. Congressman James Sensenbrenner, the powerful chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, is the author of the tough border security bill that passed the House last year. And he will likely be the lead House negotiator should that legislation move to conference. I asked him earlier whether an immigration deal can come out of the conference.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: I'm going to do my best to make sure that there is legislation this year, but it's got to be done right. That's secure the border first, enforce the employer sanctions so as to cut off the magnet of more jobs for more illegal immigrants. And then figure out what to do with the 11-to-12 million illegal immigrants that are already here.
DOBBS: As you well know Mr. Chairman, what you have just said is absolutely inverted. It's just about everything the Senate has done. Under those circumstances, is it really possible to come up with an intelligent piece of legislation out of conference?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, I hope there is. I agree with you, Lou, that the Senate didn't get it. You know, it's amnesty first, millions of additional visas and reducing the border security of employer sanctions that's contained in the House bill. I think that we can get a good conference if the American people tell their senators that the time has come to wake up and not repeat the mistake that Congress did 20 years ago when it passed the Simpson-Mazzoli bill that failed so miserably, that we got the problem as bad as we've got it now.
DOBBS: Is the speaker of the House, in your discussions, is the speaker of the House, the majority leader, are they aligned with you and willing to hold the line, if you will, in terms of putting border security first in any of this discussion?
SENSENBRENNER: Absolutely. Both Speaker Hastert and Majority Leader Boehner have supported the House position on the border security and employer sanction legislation. Furthermore, the speaker has repeatedly denounced, amidst a huge amount of criticism, I might add, that he will not bring a bill to the floor that is opposed by a majority of Republican congressmen. He's going to be under tremendous pressure to cave on that, but knowing Denny Hastert the way I do, I doubt that's going to happen.
DOBBS: Congressman Sensenbrenner, in talking with the members of your committee, the House Judiciary Committee, with your colleagues in the Congress who have been going home over the last month or so and hearing from their constituents, is there any doubt in anyone's mind what the will of the people is on this issue, in terms of border security? In terms of port security and how to deal with illegal immigration?
SENSENBRENNER: No there isn't, and I guess the best example is Congressman Chris Shays of Connecticut, who had 18 town meetings and came back adamantly opposed to any kind of amnesty. He'd been making some kind of disturbing comments before he'd heard from the people and he's gone back to Washington to represent the people of southeastern Connecticut.
DOBBS: How would you characterize the legislation that the Senate passed and the process they used to reach that legislative result?
SENSENBRENNER: I think what they did is they added one thing on top of another to buy votes over there. And this is something that is really an abomination. And that's why it's going to be so difficult to reconcile in the conference. The Senators are going to have to get down to work, rather than making all kinds of statements and soundbites, if we are going to get a good, decent, acceptable -- and most importantly -- workable immigration and border security bill.
DOBBS: Are you absolutely certain that you will be able to come out of that committee -- that conference with putting border security first, employer sanctions first, to deal with this issue?
SENSENBRENNER: I'm not going to sign a conference report that gives amnesty to illegal immigrants, and I'm not going to sign one that is ineffective in border security and employer sanctions. We did it wrong 20 years ago -- over my No vote, I might add. This country can't afford to do it wrong again, because the numbers are going to be that much greater, and the impact on our economy and social fabric of having a huge underclass of illegal immigrants is going to be that much more severe.
DOBBS: Congressman James Sensenbrenner, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, thanks for being here.
SENSENBRENNER: Thanks, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Jim in Florida wrote in to say: Lou, I'm a gay male who has been in a relationship for more than 10 years now and not worried about gay marriage, all it means is tax breaks. I am more worried about illegal immigration, Iraq and Katrina issues. All those issues that George Bush has failed at. If he wants to motivate his base, then he needs to lead on these issues and not play games with gay marriage. Get a grip, George.
Chris in Pennsylvania: Lou, I'm so mad, I had to write. Instead of teaching core values to our troops, let's teach some core values to our so-called commander in chief. He sends these brave men and women into Iraq with no plan, with no formula for victory, and with no strategy to leave. Their only apparently duty now is to serve as targets for the insurgents.
Louis in Arkansas: Our president and Senate have brought legal Americans together as never before. We positively, definitely, overwhelmingly approve of exactly the opposite of whatever they propose.
And Debbie in North Carolina: Lou, I guess the air is thin up on Capitol Hill, that affects thinking and reasoning. And our government isn't doing either.
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of those thoughts coming up here later.
Still ahead, American elections being run by foreign companies? Democracy for sale? It's been bought. We'll have that special report. And President Bush demanding action this election year on gay marriage. It's the return of the wedge issue. Will it work? I'll be joined by two top political strategists, Republican Ed Rollins, Democrat Joe Trippi. And the widening investigation into the Canadian terror suspects, possible links within the United States. That, and more, still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, new evidence that the federal government has ignored a threat to the integrity of our elections. A group of Venezuelan businessmen have bought an American company that supplies electronic voting machines and counts the votes. But your government didn't even review the sale. Who should worry about democracy? Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Smartmatic, based in Boca Raton, provides voting machine in local elections in the United States, like this election in Chicago in March.
But Smartmatic has only five-to-seven people working in Boca Raton, Florida. Smartmatic is a labyrinth of international holding companies owned by Venezuelan businessmen. Smartmatic Group NV of Curacao, Netherlands, Antilles -- owns Smartmatic International BV of Amsterdam, Netherlands, owns Smartmatic Corporation of Florida, which bought Sequoia Voting Systems of California, USA, in 2005.
When Smartmatic bought the U.S. voting machine company Sequoia in 2005, the U.S. government did not review the sale. In discussions with this program today, Smartmatic lawyers admitted, "We were contacted by Treasury about a week ago, and we have provided documents over the last few days."
The big worry for U.S. elections is Smartmatic and other voting machine companies are private companies. They have proprietary software that they can call a trade secret. Electronic voting experts with extensive experience say it's nearly impossible to verify if a proprietary system is tamper-proof.
DOUGLAS JONES, ASSOC. PROF., UNIV. OF IOWA: All of the voting system vendors in the United States are private companies. The problem is the closed-door proprietary nature of the process. The closed system we have right now makes it extremely hard to find out what's going on, and that means that should a thief get in a position of power, we would never know.
PILGRIM: Some voter watchdog groups and others in congress are calling for a full review and say the ownership of all electronic voting companies should be reviewed to determine if it poses a risk to U.S. elections.
The U.S. Treasury Department today would not confirm or deny if a so-called CIFIUS review is under way on Smartmatic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
The U.S. Treasury Department tells us they can review documents for months, even weeks before a 30-day formal review can begin, and then the agency can decide to extend that for another 45 days. What they say they can't tell us is if they are looking into Smartmatic, but that's something the company itself admitted to us today, Lou.
DOBBS: That they were not reviewed by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States?
PILGRIM: When they were bought --
DOBBS: That no one at the Treasury Department, no one in this federal government took one look at this transaction.
PILGRIM: They absolutely did not.
DOBBS: And meanwhile, the election people in the federal government have no concept of who they are doing business with, how in the world it will work, whether or not they can assure us that this election in mid-terms in nearly every state is accurate and verifiable.
PILGRIM: In fact, the Chicago officials admitted to us that they thought they were dealing with a Florida, U.S. company.
DOBBS: Well, we know what we're dealing with, and it is a dysfunctional government that is trying to render our elections precisely the same. Kitty, thank you very much, as we will continue reporting on what is an outright threat to our democracy, to the integrity of our voting system, and to our elections process. Thank you, Kitty.
Tonight, a major setback for Venezuela's leftist president Hugo Chavez and his dream of an anti-American alliance, spawning all of -- spanning all of South America. In Peru, former president Allen Garcia, won a run-off election for the presidency. Garcia, the former president, defeated the radical nationalist candidate backed by Hugo Chavez.
Chavez threatened to break off relations with Peru if Garcia were to win. Well, he won. Peru is now accusing Chavez of unacceptable and systematic interference in the Peruvian election.
Still ahead here, a terrorist plot on our northern border has links within the United States. The investigation is widening. We'll have that SPECIAL REPORT.
And President Bush, he wants a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. He hopes to unite his splintered base, apparently, around wedge issues. Will he succeed? Two top political strategists, one Democrat, one Republican, join me here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Police in Canada believe 17 radical Islamist terror suspects arrested in Ontario could have links with some suspected terrorists in the United States. Officers say those suspects were planning to blow up buildings in the Toronto area. It is the biggest anti-terrorist operation in Canada in years.
Anti-terrorist police in Britain tonight urgently searching for a possible al Qaeda chemical weapon. Police raided a suspected terrorist safehouse in London Friday, but failed to find any bombs or any bomb making equipment. Officers arrested two people, one of the suspects was shot in the raid. And police say radical Islamist terrorists are now planning to explode a chemical weapon that could release poisonous gas somewhere in the United Kingdom.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Which of these national issues do you believe is most critical, urgent, most important? Gay marriage? Illegal immigration? War in Iraq? Border security? Public education? Or Health care? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here in just a few minutes.
Still ahead, more of your thoughts on President Bush fighting again for an amendment on a ban on gay marriage. I'll be joined by Ed Rollins and Joe Trippi, Democratic and Republican strategists. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, tell us all about it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou, Canada terror crackdown, how big is the danger from the north. There are new developments tonight. I'll speak about it them with Frances Townsend, assistant to the president for homeland security and counter-terrorism.
The mayor of America's biggest city joins the outcry against Homeland Security funds for New York City, Michael Bloomberg wants to know what justifies a 40 percent cut in funding for one of America's top terror targets.
Plus, it's a critical question on the war on terror, are suspected al Qaeda members covered by The Geneva Convention. We'll have details on a heated debate at the Pentagon.
And get this, he's Ivy League, speaks five languages, arguably one of the top students in the United States. So why would Uncle Sam want to send him packing? All that, Lou, coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you.
Joining me now former White House political director, Ed Rollins, Democratic campaign strategist, Joe Trippi. Joe Trippi is the former campaign manager for the Howard Dean presidential campaign, and author of a new book, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." Oh, yeah? So good to have you hear. It's good to see you.
Let's start out with, here we go, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage because its a threat to the American family, Ed. Is this going to be a successful wedge issue?
ED ROLLINS, FMR. WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Absolutely not. The secret to this game is you always want to be thinking politically, but you don't want to look political. This looks like desperation politics.
Certainly there are many people who believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, but a lot of us conservatives believe it's a state issue, it's not a federal issue and it's not going to have any success and I think to a certain extent it diminishes the president right now when he needs to be strengthened.
DOBBS: Do his political advisers know just how smarmy and ill- advised and cynical this looks?
ROLLINS: I don't think they know anything. I think they've been in the bunker for so long that they've lost their edge, and they were pretty good operatives a year or two ago. But they've lost their edge.
JOE TRIPPI, DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: This makes no sense to me whatsoever. It's so clearly a political ploy. It plays into the whole thing that we talked about over the years that Democrats don't know how to campaign, but they know how to govern public -- know how to campaign --
DOBBS: There's a difference of opinion on that as well.
TRIPPI: They know how to campaign and they don't know how to govern and you can't govern this way. Right now, all the issues we have where this nation has to be pulled together, to be talking about wedge issues is not just -- look at what the things that you talk about on this show every night, immigration, global warming, all kinds of different.
DOBBS: The war on Iraq. Failing public education systems.
TRIPPI: Yes, I think this is one thing Ed and I can agree on, this is not going to go anywhere. It's something that's not working.
ROLLINS: There are some issues, you know, they can do flag burning and all the rest of it that of emotional issues and not intellectual issues. The critical thing if they want to get the Republicans excited about the Republicans again, they can do some fiscal control, he can veto some of these spending bills and put restraints on this runaway spending.
TRIPPI: What's wrong with all the spending, Ed?
ROLLINS: That will make people -- there's the difference.
(CROSSTALK)
TRIPPI: No, no, no. I'm being facetious. These guys are up there every day voting on all the spending. We've got a huge deficit. Where are the conservatives? Where are the conservatives in Washington?
DOBBS: They are not in the White House and they are not in either -- the leadership of -- I guess we should limit it to the Senate.
ROLLINS: The House on the issue that you talk about all the time, which is very, very critical, is the homeland security and the border. I mean, they are right on this, and this is going to be the real test of their courage to see if they hang in there. I think they will.
DOBBS: And on the issue of flag burning, as you just raised it, Senate Majority Leader Frist, is planning to bring forward another constitutional amendment on flag burning, for crying out loud. This is -- these wedge issues --
ROLLINS: It will work if Michael Dukakis was leading the Democrats today. It worked in '88. It won't work today.
TRIPPI: Roll the tape of President Bush number one going to all those -- all those flag factories during 1988. We're going back to the future again. I mean, on a wedge issue that -- you know, again, I just can't believe -- we can get into whether you want to protect the flag or not, how bad we would have to work to do that. But with all the other stuff that we've got going on in this country right now?
Again, the president's never really called -- I think the biggest failure of this president is he's never called on the American people to come together. And we have so many great -- I mean, so many times when he could have done it, right after 9/11 and onward. DOBBS: We need to be together.
TRIPPI: We need to be together and now we're out there doing wedge issues to divide people in a political year.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I'd like to ask you two gentlemen with your expertise, your experience, your talent, to do a public service. Tell the president what in the world he needs to do here. Tell the Democrats what they need to do here. Because they are not distinguishing themselves in my humble opinion, any more than the Republicans. They do have the insular advantage of not being in leadership. But, Ed?
ROLLINS: If I was the president, I would challenge the congress, the Republican leadership to clean up their house. There's a lot of investigations going on right now. And it looks like they are obstructing justice to keep people in the Appropriations Committee. Secondly, I would say the war is going to be a long, hard battle and we got to support our troops and we got to make sure it is being fought correctly. And third I would secure the boarders.
TRIPPI: I think the Democrats, the party that steps back right now and calls, really challenges the American people to come together, that's the party, over the long haul, over the next decade to come is going to be the party that rules and actually pulls the country together. The president is failing in that kind of leadership. And I think both parties would do better service to the country if that's what they were calling on us to do instead of using wedge issues to divide us.
DOBBS: Is there any prospect that you see whatsoever for Democrats or Republicans to come together? And I don't mean as in the instance with the amnesty bill in the Senate, where the president and the Republican leadership decided to make the Democratic membership the majority for the purpose of that legislation. Is there any way in which you can see that happening?
TRIPPI: In an election year? I don't see the Republicans -- I mean, the Republicans are in charge, so they'd have to be the one to sort of pull that together. But I think, you know, when you look at the candidates that are out there this year, you know, I think you are seeing a new generation come up. I think hopefully we'll be able to change things in this next election.
DOBBS: All right, let's start the process. Do you think that the Democrats will take control of the House this year?
TRIPPI: Yes, I think so. I mean, I think if things are where they are at, we'll come closer to it.
ROLLINS: I think it's definitely a 50/50 proposition today, which obviously wouldn't have been several months ago. They are worried about it.
TRIPPI: I think the fact that the president is doing what he's doing, the flag burning, gay marriage stuff is all indication of how desperate the administration's gotten.
ROLLINS: More importantly, they think they are in trouble.
DOBBS: Ed Rollins, Joe Trippi. Gentlemen, thanks for being here, restoring, if not our faith in political leadership in either party, at least in the intelligence and the discernment of the --
ROLLINS: If you are going to advocate the consultants are the ones that guide this country back, you are in deep trouble.
DOBBS: I want to tell you that my skepticism has reached broader expanses than simply the leadership of the party. Gentlemen, thank you very much.
Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll. More of your thoughts. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The big news of the day, the results of our poll tonight; 33 percent of you say illegal immigration's the country's most important national issue. And then we go down from there. It is instructive, perhaps, that only 1 percent of you say that the number one issue is gay marriage.
Taking a look now at more of your thoughts. Many of you still sending in your thoughts about what this administration, this congress is doing right. Finding more inventive and innovative ways in which to say nothing.
Barbara in New York saying, "Other than self-service and bowing down to corporate and special interests, I can't think of anything this current administration does well, unless you want to consider shoveling manure an achievement."
Paul in Indiana. "Lou, the present administration and congress have given us a lot. Another war, high trade deficits, elimination of the middle class, a lower standard of living, insecure borders, high deficit spending and a tax break for the wealthy. We have a lot to be thankful for and come November we'll return the favor by rewarding our representatives with unemployment."
Ann in Oklahoma. "I do not know of anything the Bush administration is doing right for this country. As far as I can tell he has made us a welfare state for Mexico. As a white, middle class American I feel we have taxation without representation and that is tyranny."
Phillip in Tennessee. "Lou, you need to lighten up on the illegal immigration issue. Look at the big picture. Our government is working diligently to solve the plight of the middle class as well as the illegal alien problem. The senate guest worker bill allows 12 to 20 million illegal aliens to gain amnesty and provides a path for 20 to 60 million more in the near future. Free trade policies continue to outsource millions of middle class jobs. It is just a matter of time until the middle class as we know it will no longer exist."
Send us your thoughts. We love hearing from you. Send those thoughts to LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose email is read here on this broadcast receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America."
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow when among my guests will be Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico. We'll be talking about the deployment of the National Guard troops to our southern border, our border security crisis and, of course, something called comprehensive immigration reform.
For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf?
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