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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Goes to Border to Push Amnesty Plan; Illegal Immigration Top Issue in California Election; Dangerous Loopholes in Senate Immigration Bill; Gov. Bill Richardson Discusses the Immigration Debate
Aired June 06, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, primaries in eight states are under way. The outcome of many of these races will be determined by the issue of illegal immigration and the issue of border security. We'll have reports tonight from key races around the nation.
And in our exclusive report tonight, the selling of democracy and voter fraud nationwide. Our special report tonight on the role of Venezuela in our elections.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Tuesday, June 6th.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, more than three years after the beginning of the war in Iraq, the number of Iraqi civilians killed in sectarian violence is rising. The Iraqi government today reporting nearly 1,400 Iraqi civilians were killed in Baghdad last month alone. That number does not include Iraqis killed in bombs and explosions. All of the victims were shot dead, raising fears that sectarian violence is spiraling out of control and that a full-scale civil war could be imminent.
Meanwhile, there are reports tonight that the United States is prepared to give Iran some of our nuclear technology if Iran agrees to abandon its nuclear weapons program. According to The Associated Press, the United States' offer is part of a package of incentives agreed to by this country, Europe, Russia and China. U.S. officials declined to talk about the specifics of that offer, but President Bush tonight saying Iran's initial response to that offer sounds like a positive step.
Turning to the president's domestic agenda, President Bush today demanded that the House of Representatives accept his pro-amnesty program for millions of illegal aliens. President Bush strongly emphasized that border security is essential in a speech to Border Patrol agents in New Mexico, but the president also acknowledged he faces a tough fight to convince many Republicans to accept his so- called comprehensive immigration reforms.
One of those Republican critics tonight is battling to win a major congressional race in southern California. Today's election could help make our illegal immigration and border security crisis a significant issue in congressional races all across this country.
Elaine Quijano tonight reports from Artesia, New Mexico, on the president's campaign to win support for his pro-amnesty agenda.
Casey Wian reports from Encinitas, California, where the issue of illegal immigration will likely be determined in the outcome of today's special election to replace disgraced former congressman Duke Cunningham.
Lisa Sylvester reports tonight from Washington on elements of the Senate's amnesty bill that would not only prevent massive document fraud by illegal aliens, but actually promote it.
We turn first to Elaine Quijano in Artesia, New Mexico -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Lou, with immigration reform at a standstill on Capitol Hill, President Bush once again today tried to bridge that divide. So today he traveled here to Artesia, New Mexico, to try to demonstrate he is committed to tightening the border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice over): President Bush chose the only U.S. Border Patrol academy in the country to deliver his latest pitch on comprehensive immigration reform. With the House and Senate bills remaining far apart, Mr. Bush suggested both sides in the emotional debate share basic beliefs.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And while the differences grab the headlines, the similarities and approaches are striking. We all agree we need to control our borders. There's a common agreement that the federal government has a responsibility to control the borders.
QUIJANO: To emphasize that part of his message, the president chose as his backdrop this facility in Artesia, New Mexico, where America's future Border Patrol agents receive training in everything from checkpoint operations to immigration law. Mr. Bush also oversaw the swearing in of their new boss, Ralph Basham, former Secret Service director and now the commissioner of Customs and Border Protection.
By highlighting their work, Mr. Bush hopes to sway skeptical House Republicans who have long called for tougher border security measures and want that dealt with before tackling other aspects of immigration reform. Yet, the president remains convinced that a temporary guest worker program and a path to what he calls earned citizenship are vital to reforming immigration laws. Critics call that path amnesty, but during a second stop in Laredo, Texas, the president took issue with his critics.
BUSH: Amnesty is something nobody is for in America. I'm not for it. But in order to frighten people, you just say the word "amnesty".
(END VIDEOTAPE) QUIJANO: And next up for President Bush, he will travel to a Catholic Charities facility in Omaha, Nebraska, tomorrow. During that visit he is expected to once again say that immigrants are expected to assimilate into American society -- Lou.
DOBBS: Elaine, thank you very much.
Elaine Quijano, with the president today in Artesia, New Mexico.
The president has left Artesia, of course, and is now in Laredo, Texas, after visiting that Border Patrol academy. President Bush speaking to reporters just before he left, however.
The president repeated the themes of his address to Border Patrol agents in New Mexico. He emphasized his commitment to strong border security and insisted that his immigration plan does not, again, amount to amnesty.
Voters in the 50th congressional district in southern California tonight are voting in a special election that is dominated by the illegal immigration and border security crisis. It is a tight race, where one candidate's remarks may, in fact, determine the outcome. The Democratic candidate said she misspoke when she declared that voters don't need papers to vote.
Casey Wian reports from Encinitas, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANCINE BUSBY (D), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Hi, I'm Francine Busby.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's already a legendary political blunder. Democratic congressional candidate Francine Busby, running a dead heat in the polls, addresses a largely Spanish-speaking audience five days before the election and apparently suggests it's OK for illegal aliens to vote.
BUSBY: You can all help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH).
BUSBY: Yes. You don't need papers for voting. You don't need to be a registered voter to help.
WIAN: Busby claims she misspoke and was actually encouraging children to help with the campaign.
BUSBY: I had a slip of the tongue. I immediately corrected myself. I thought I was answering the question being asked. And I explained that you do not have to be a registered voter to -- to work on a campaign.
WIAN: But in the 50th district north of San Diego, where illegal immigration was already the number one campaign issue, and where the last congressman was kicked out of office for taking bribes, the statement energized the campaign of Republican Brian Bilbray.
BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Some people say that ethics is the issue in this campaign. Others say illegal immigration is. And Ms. Busby, with her comments, have obviously brought the two issues together. What kind of comments and encouragements you do to somebody who has identified themselves as undocumented I think raise major concerns of, is it appropriate for a candidate to do that?
WIAN: Bilbray is the pro-border security candidate, while Busby supports the McCain-Kennedy amnesty approach to immigration reform. Some say Busby broke the law.
RICK AMATO, RADIO HOST: At worst, she was soliciting votes among illegal people. But again, if we give her the benefit of the doubt, then at best what she was doing was soliciting help among illegal people. And either case, both those instances are illegal.
WIAN: Because this is a special election to fill the seat vacated by the disgraced Duke Cunningham, voters will actually make two choices, one to serve out the remainder of his term, and then another for their party's candidate in the November general election.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: That means both candidates are likely to face each other again in November, and you can bet, Lou, that illegal immigration will continue to dominate the campaign -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, there is a third candidate in that race. How is he doing?
WIAN: He had -- his name is William Griffith. He's a schoolteacher and a father. It says it on the ballot.
He was endorsed initially by the San Diego Minutemen. They have sort of backed off that endorsement a little bit, not publicly, but they don't want Busby to win after these comments. And so they are perfectly happy, and many members of the San Diego Minutemen are now going to vote for Bilbray, just to make sure that Busby doesn't win -- Lou.
DOBBS: Too close to call this evening?
WIAN: Absolutely too close to call. Campaign officials say -- both sides say they are optimistic, but it is very close -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian from Encinitas, California.
Thank you.
President Bush today talked about his proposal to send 6,000 additional National Guard troops to our southern border with Mexico. President Bush originally announced that plan three weeks ago, but so far, none of those National Guard troops have been deployed.
Fifty-five soldiers from the Utah National Guard arrived in Arizona to work on construction projects, but National Guard commanders in Washington have decided that those guardsmen are not part of those reinforcements promised by the president, as originally suggested by the troops on the ground in Arizona.
Later in this broadcast, Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico joins me to talk about the progress of plans to send National Guard troops to his border, and the president's speech today.
The Republican and Democratic leadership in the Senate are determined to overcome opposition in the House of Representatives to their pro-amnesty legislation. The Senate's leaders insist their legislation will improve border security, but it turns out that legislation contains major flaws that could make it easy for terrorists to enter and stay in this country.
Lisa Sylvester has the report from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Three of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers obtained green cards through the 1986 amnesty. One claimed he was a farm worker.
They are among the hundreds of thousands of people who fraudulently benefited from the program. One reason it was so easy to commit fraud is because INS hands were tied by confidentiality requirements.
VICTOR CERDA, FMR. ICE OFFICIAL: So you have situations where the government would know that somebody did, in fact, commit fraud, maybe two, three years later, but would be unable because of these disclosure confidentiality provisions, would be unable to actually act on that fraud.
SYLVESTER: The 1986 law's confidentiality provision severely restricted information sharing between immigration officials and prosecutors and law enforcement. Application information could not be used to deport or revoke benefits. Similar language is in the Senate immigration bill.
Senator John Cornyn introduced an amendment to change that, citing national security concerns.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: It's important that we bring down those stovepipes that prevented the information sharing that might have prevented 9/11.
SYLVESTER: Cornyn's amendment was defeated in a tie vote. Senator Kennedy led the fight, arguing without the confidentiality clause illegal aliens may be reluctant to apply for green cards.
But back to 1986, without the threat of prosecution for providing false information, there was massive fraud.
TJ BONNER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: For about $100, you could buy the complete packet that showed that you had been in the United States, paying rent, paying utilities, and working. And when they went back and checked those packets, they found that many of them contained the same addresses, and the same dates.
SYLVESTER: In '86, it was estimated that half a million people would be eligible for amnesty. But the United States gave away citizenship to more than 2.5 million people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And clearly, fraud accounts for some of that difference, and the same loopholes that illegal aliens could exploit become gateways for terrorists -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, it is remarkable what we discover in this -- about 715 pages of legislation that the Senate rushed through in just about two weeks under the heading of "Comprehensive Immigration Reform."
Lisa, thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Coming here next, primary elections under way in eight states tonight. I'll have some thoughts on the issues that will determine the outcome in many of those races.
And I'll be talking to one of the nation's leading conservatives, Richard Viguerie, who accuses President Bush of betraying conservatism.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Voters in eight states are taking part tonight in primaries to select candidates for closely-watched contests in the midterm elections. As we reported, the most closely watched race is in southern California, where there is both a primary and a special election. But voters in Alabama, Montana, Iowa, Mississippi, New Jersey, New Mexico, and South Dakota are also going to the polls.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS (voice over): Dissatisfaction with the conduct of the war in Iraq, outrage over massive illegal immigration and total lack of border security, and pure disgust for corrupt politicians, that adds up to voter anger. And it could determine the outcome of eight primaries for the Senate and gubernatorial seats taking place today.
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INST.: We've got some primary contests out there that are going to really give us a clue as to whether that unhappiness could lead to a Democratic majority in the House, maybe even the Senate in November.
DOBBS: In California, perhaps the most closely-watched congressional showdown. A special election to replace the jailed former congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham. Republican Brian Bilbray running on anti-illegal immigration platform against Democrat Francine Busby.
Illegal immigration may also determine the outcome of the primaries for Senate and governor in New Mexico.
In Alabama, illegal immigration and a failed tax policy by GOP Governor Bob Riley sparked a Republican challenge by Judge Roy Moore, who created a national controversy over a Ten Commandments statute at his courthouse. Voter unhappiness there boosting Democratic hopes for taking the seat.
Democrats are also hoping for inroads in Montana, where corruption is focusing voter attention. Three-term Republican Senator Conrad Burns is in jeopardy because of ties to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
In New Jersey, low voter turnout in the primary to choose a candidate to face Senator Bob Menendez.
Light turnout in Mississippi as well, where voters will decide Democratic primary races for two U.S. House seats and one U.S. Senate seat. The winner of today's race for the Senate will take on Republican Trent Lott in the fall.
Five million dollars of federal taxpayer money poured into touch- screen voting machines in South Dakota, where a turnout of only 25 percent is expected. Two Democrats are battling to run against Republican Governor Mike Rounds.
And in Iowa, four Democrats are awaiting results to see who faces Republican Congressman Jim Nussle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: All Americans have a stake in today's primary outcomes. These primaries widely seen as a bellwether of the country's unhappiness with Washington and a harbinger of where this country may be headed come November.
There is a surprise winner tonight in one of this nation's early 2008 presidential Straw polls. This one held in Macomb County, Michigan.
More than 300 Republicans voting in the straw poll of the 14 write-in candidates. Newt Gingrich came in fifth, with 38 votes, followed by Condoleezza Rice, Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, and former New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani.
Receiving the most votes in the Michigan Republican Straw Poll, Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado, who has made illegal immigration his signature issue.
A report tonight shows member of Congress and their staff took at least 23,000 trips worth nearly $50 million, paid for by private groups. Some of the most popular destinations included Hawaii, Paris and Italy. And on the list of top travelers, Congressman Joe Barton, House Whip Roy Blunt, Majority Leader John Boehner, former majority leader Tom DeLay. They and their staff members accepted more than $350,000 in travel.
Also, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, as well as Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks, Republican Mike Oxley and Bill Thomas, chairmen of the powerful Ways and Means Committee. Democratic Congressman Robert Wexler's office made the list of frequent travelers as well, as did Republican Don Young.
Congressional rules do not allow lobbyist to pay for congressional travel. They do not prohibit private organizations from doing so.
Still ahead, we'll have some of your thoughts.
Also tonight, our special report on the role of Venezuela in our elections, how this nation's very democracy is for sale.
And one of the founders of this nation's conservative movement says President Bush is betraying conservatism. Richard Viguerie is our guest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The security of our elections and the integrity of our democracy is in jeopardy. Nationwide, there is concern and even alarm that electronic voting machines are simply too easily compromised and vulnerable to fraud. And as we've been reporting on this broadcast for the past several evenings, there is a new threat, and that threat originates in the Venezuelan ownership of one of the country's leading electronic voting machine companies.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice over): In California, New Jersey, and New Mexico, some jurisdictions are using Sequoia voting machines. The voting machine company was bought in 2005 by Smartmatic, which bills itself as a Florida company, but Smartmatic is a private company owned by Venezuelan investors.
Election watchdog groups are alarmed by the fact that a foreign company now has proprietary software that it can claim is a trade secret for counting votes in a U.S. election.
WARREN STEWART, VOTETRUST USA: The broader issue of the fact that the software that counts our votes is considered a trade secret and is proprietary, and no one can review the source code or the ballot programming, not even the election officials, the secretary of state, that's all kept secret from the voters.
PILGRIM: Some e-voting experts and members of Congress dislike the murky corporate structure of Smartmatic, a foreign-owned company, now deeply connected with U.S. elections. AVI RUBIN, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: The problem that we're in right now is that we're using equipment to elect our president and our Congress and our local officials that cannot be audited, that are potentially under the control of foreign enties, and that are almost an ideal platform for rigging an election.
PILGRIM: Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney recently wrote to Secretary John Snow demanding the U.S. Treasury investigate the sale of the U.S. company Sequoia to Smartmatic in 2005. "Having a foreign government investing in or owning a company that supplies voting machines for U.S. elections could raise concerns over the integrity of elections conducted with these machines."
Smartmatic was also involved in the 2004 recall election of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, an election in which Chavez clung to power but the results have been questioned by some outside observers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: And because e-voting systems are not entirely tamper- proof, some jurisdictions in the United States have opted to go back to paper ballots until they are more able to be monitored fully. But many election experts say it is right to question the fact that one of the top voting machines company in this country is now foreign owned -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Kitty.
Kitty Pilgrim.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Mark in California wrote in to say, "Please remind John McCain that he is running for president of the United States, not Amerimex. I would hope we, the people, take his pandering for what it is and send him home with his Republican political future in ruins."
Nick in Texas, "Is there any way to require the president and Congress to watch the news and find out what's really important to the people? Let's see, broken borders, rising deficits, lack of health care, lack of resources for education. And what does the congressional leadership and the president trot out to talk about? Gay marriage and flag burning. Desperate times call for wedge issues."
And Sandra in Nevada, "When George Bush ran for office, he said that gay marriage was a state's issue. What changed his mind, low poll numbers?"
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts later here.
And now, the subject of tonight's poll. Which do you belief is the greater threat to the traditional American family, declining family income, illegal immigration and outsourcing, out-of-wedlock births, gay marriage or unions? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results later here.
And three million American jobs have been outsourced over the past five years. More on the way.
IBM today announcing it will be investing $2 billion -- or rather $6 billion in India over the next three years. That's in addition to the $2 billion it's already invested there.
IBM's chairman made the announcement at the company's headquarters in Bangalore, India. IBM has dramatically increased its Indian workforce. It has laid off thousands of employees in the United States.
Coming up next here, Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico, who met with President Bush today. We'll be talking about border security and so-called comprehensive immigration reform.
President Bush facing a rebellion on the right. One of the country's leading conservatives, Richard Viguerie, is our guest.
And three popular radio talk show hosts join me here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New charges tonight that radical Islamist terrorists in Canada planned to storm the Canadian parliament. Prosecutors in Ontario say at least one of those terrorists suspects arrested at this weekend plot today take hostages in the parliament building, including the Canadian prime minister. Officials say the terror suspects planned to behead their hostages if Muslim prisoners in Canada and Afghanistan were not released.
In Afghanistan, insurgents have killed two more of our troops. A bomb exploded near the soldier's vehicle in the eastern part of Afghanistan. Another soldier was wounded.
Earlier, insurgents wounded three of our soldiers in a suicide bomb attack on another U.S. military convoy. Radical Islamist insurgents in Afghanistan have sharply increased the number and intensity of their attacks on U.S. and coalition troops this year.
Two hundred twenty-seven of our troops have been killed in Afghanistan since that war began.
Turning to domestic politics, Richard Viguerie is recognized as one of the founders of this nation's conservative movement. In the 1960s, Viguerie pioneered political direct mail, and he used to spread the conservative message and raised money for conservative causes.
With that money, the conservative movement from Barry Goldwater's landslide defeat in the 1964 presidential election and came to dominate American politics. But Richard Viguerie says President Bush and the congressional leadership have simply betrayed conservatives. Richard Viguerie joins us here tonight. Good to have you here.
RICHARD VIGUERIE, CONSERVATIVE STRATEGIST: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Betrayal by this president, a compassionate conservative, is this a complete surprise to you?
VIGUERIE: No. I guess hope springs eternal. My wife says I'll never learn. I just always put my hopes and trust in these politicians and they always betray us. But Republicans have done this as long as I can remember. Nixon did it, Ford did it, Bush the 41st president did it. They campaign with conservative issues and conservative votes elect them and then they move to big government, big Wall Street politic politics.
DOBBS: As your wife would ask, why do you put up with these people?
VIGUERIE: Because I don't have a choice, Lou. We have to --
DOBBS: Like every other American.
VIGUERIE: I believe the lord doesn't require us to succeed, but he does require us to try. So we just have to keep trying.
DOBBS: Let's see what the president's trying right now. As I look at this compassionate conservative, I see record budget deficits. I see record trade deficits. I see government expanding at an enormous rate. And, hence, stimulus in the economy. How do you feel about all that this?
VIGUERIE: Well, conservatives and the values voters, the conservative voters, most of America is very disillusioned and discouraged and many of them are angry, and when conservatives are angry at the Republican Party, bad things happen to the Republican Party -- 1948, 1960, 1974, '76, '94, '92, 1998, and the Republicans went on a big spending spree and Newt Gingrich lost his speakership.
Once again, the Republicans have ignored the conservative voters.
DOBBS: Aren't you mollified by this president and his political advisors trotting out, in my opinion, in one of the most cynical, patronizing fashion a wedge issue like a constitutional ban on gay marriage?
VIGUERIE: One person's wedge issue, Lou, is another person's deeply held principle, and this is a deeply held principle, the social issues. Republicans -- when I started in politics, back in the '60s, they couldn't figure out to get 51 percent, and they'd get 45 percent and 47. All of the sudden you nix the social issues and you get a governing majority, and now he has abandoned that governing majority.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, you are one of the country's leading conservatives, important issue, that you can deal with, things like government spending, war in Iraq, the failure of education, the responsibility of this government to make certain this economy is driving income higher for families not lower. On no platform do I see gay marriage established anywhere as a principal threat to heterosexual marriage and the traditional American family.
VIGUERIE: Man does not live by bread alone, Lou, and man is a spiritual person and you have an eternal soul. Every civilization that we know of has collapsed internally, moral decadence, and this country -- we've been in a cultural war for 50 years, which the traditional value people have just recently woke up to.
DOBBS: I want to get involved in this culture war. I feel like I'm on the sidelines, Richard. Let me get into this culture war. I feel, and I think millions of Americans do, because when I look at the culture war and I say you want to help the American family and I see a third of all children in this country born out of wedlock, I see declining family income and I here every sociologist and psychologist and family counselor tell me and every other American that the principal cause of divorce in this country is finances, and the inability of people to communicate on it. Where the heck are the conservatives on that?
VIGUERIE: We're fighting that battle, Lou. You have people on welfare.
DOBBS: Let's win it.
VIGUERIE: The schools are not working because of the government. The federal government is involved. It's government that's messing everybody up.
DOBBS: I'm with you. I'm going to jump right into the culture wars. I'm with you, let's get rid of government.
VIGUERIE: No, downsize it.
DOBBS: What have we done for the family that everybody's so concerned about? Where are the values? I'm lost.
VIGUERIE: You've got schools that are now indoctrinating the children with values that are in opposition to the American families' values here in this country. You've got schools that are actually teaching people. The inner city and people don't need anything as much as they need good schools.
DOBBS: What's gay marriage got to do with any of that?
VIGUERIE: Because the homosexual agenda in my opinion and many conservatives is designed to do away with the American family.
DOBBS: I'm getting right back in your culture war with you, a place I don't often go. Let's get rid of all those homosexual marriages. We've moved them right off the table. Where does that leave the traditional American family?
VIGUERIE: Overburdened with high taxes and a debt that is going to have to be paid by their children and grandchildren, to keep politicians in power. We don't have to worry about the illegal graft and theft in Washington, worry about the legal theft and plunder.
DOBBS: Now, we're talking, Richard. Now we're getting honest.
VIGUERIE: Absolutely. The Republican Party has designed a strategy to bribe the voters with their own money.
DOBBS: Now, let me get back into the culture wars, all right?
VIGUERIE: You're really focused on that tonight?
DOBBS: No, you brought it up. Why don't be bring all the homosexuals back into our society where they've been forever, and whether you like the idea of gay marriage or you don't, let's just sort of leave that right there. And really try to think about what the in the world's happening to the traditional American family. As a conservative that's what it seems to me you ought to be worried about.
VIGUERIE: We haven't taken anybody outside of the society. Lou, we're going about our business, and it's -- as the president said yesterday, it's these unelected judges that are forcing these issues, whether it's abortion, homosexual marriage, it's the judges that are putting it on America's plate. Americans don't want to have to deal with it.
DOBBS: Let's go off the doggone judges and lawyers, let's leave the folks alone.
VIGUERIE: We're making some progress in that area. Not as much as we'd like.
DOBBS: And let's let everybody live a little bit, and try to fix that family. Is that a good conservative idea?
VIGUERIE: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Then you and I are getting along fine. I hope you can come back.
VIGUERIE: I'd like that.
DOBBS: I should point out one other thing. This goes beyond the culture wars. You feel betrayed by this president in terms of conservatism and based on what we hear from this audience, a lot of folks are feeling betrayed by just about every politician in Washington, D.C.
VIGUERIE: Except the Republicans are in power and I'm afraid they are going to feel the brunt of it. But people are angry across the board with Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals.
DOBBS: They ought to feel the pain that working men and women in this country are feeling, because they are responsible for a lot of it.
VIGUERIE: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Thank you. Still ahead here, New Mexico's governor, Bill Richardson joins me. He was with the president today, talking about our lack of border security and our illegal immigration crisis.
And three of the nation's most popular talk show hosts on radio join me right here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush traveled to the border states of New Mexico and Texas today pushing his amnesty agenda for illegal aliens and a plan to deploy about 6,000 National Guard troops on the border. During his trip, the president met with New Mexico's governor Bill Richardson, who remains critical of the president's National Guard deployment plan. Governor Richardson joins us tonight from Santa Fe, New Mexico. Good to have you with us, governor.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Thank you, Lou. Thank you.
DOBBS: You're hobnobbing with the president of the United States, talking -- talking illegal immigration and border security. Can you reassure the rest of us that the nation is on the right direction?
RICHARDSON: I was very pleased with the president's speech. We had a little private time together. What I liked was his emphasis today on border security, speaking at a graduation of about 500 new Border Patrol agents that we desperately need.
He said we need 20,000, thousands more at the border. I've always advocated that. This is a training academy that trains air marshals, border patrol. The words he said, his commitment to border security, I believe, was very much in the right direction, but he also, Lou, talked about -- here's where you and I disagree, dealing with this issue comprehensively.
Stronger employer sanctions, stronger ties with Mexico. But, also, a workable legalization plan that is not amnesty, and I believe the president -- I was very reassured.
Now, I still have some concerns about the national guard, but when he said and his people said they remain under the -- the direction of the governor, that I can use them for forest fires and other purposes, that it's a short-term duration, I felt reassured.
DOBBS: Then let's talk about the point which you and I do disagree. And that is, as I've said, and you know governor, we've talked about this before. I've said you can't reform immigration if you can't control immigration. You can't control it if you can't secure and control your borders and your ports -- our borders and our ports. Where are we in this? Six hundred National Guard troops, not even on the line with their weapons -- with an order to help stop the illegal invasion of this country, some three million a year. This looks like P.R., to many people. RICHARDSON: Well, Lou, if you look at the border security bills that are in the Congress that will pass whether the House or Senate bill passes, there's substantially more funding for more border patrol agents, which we desperately need, and they are being trained well, more equipment, more sensors, aerial equipment.
That is happening. Now, that takes a long time because it requires training, you got to relocate these individuals. But I saw, you know, real enthusiasm, good training for these people. And when the Congress finally acts, which you and I have been urging, to pass substantial appropriations to enhance border security, we've taken an step in the right direction.
But then we have to do something with those. We got to do something to prevent those coming in, but then we got to do something, Lou, with those that are already here.
DOBBS: Governor Richardson, you have -- we appreciate it, as always. Good talking with you. We're going to find out very shortly which way the House of Representatives is going to go. The president, again, calling, of course, on the House to compromise and accept his plan and that of the Senate. It will be an interesting contest of interest will and representation of the people's will. As always, Governor Richardson, it's good to have you with us.
RICHARDSON: Thank you, thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico. Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, tell us about it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou. Just how far would the U.S. go to get Iran to give up its nuclear ambitions? An offer is now on the table. Is it an offer that Iran can't refuse? I'll ask the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton.
Global warming, is it really happening or just a theory full of hot air? A famous hurricane forecaster is now speaking out and he may surprise you. And Adolf Eichmann, an architect of the Holocaust responsible for sending millions of Jews to their deaths. We'll have some startling new details that he may have been allowed to roam free after World War II.
All that, Lou, coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. And a reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Which do you believe is a greater threat to the traditional American family: declining family incomes, illegal immigration and outsourcing, out-of-wedlock births, gay marriages or unions? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results here in just a few minutes.
Still ahead, three of the country's most popular radio talk show hosts join me to talk about wedge issues and much more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Joining me now, Randi Rhodes of Air America Radio, James Mtume of KISS-FM here in New York, Dom Giordano of WPHT-AM in Philadelphia. Good to have you all here. Let me turn to you first, James. Immigration, the president is on the road. Three big stops, pushing 6,000 national guardsmen on the border and his guest-worker amnesty program.
JAMES MTUME, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: It's the first stop on the three-ring circus. First of all, we hear all this talk -- first of all, immigration must be dealt with.
But, you know, what the resolution is, will be determined later. But here's what I want to point out, more importantly. The closer we get to November, mark my words, the less and less you're going to hear about this from the Republicans.
Because you know what? They are beginning to try to change that strategy to start to court the Latino vote that's available. Because there's been a slight backlash. But the bottom line is now this has become a political football.
DOBBS: So where are the Democrats in this, Dom?
DOM GIORDANO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The Democrats are even worse than the Republicans in my views, and that's pretty hard to do, given what the president is doing. Listeners at the big talk, Lou, are beyond the disappointment word when they see the president do what he did today and like-minded things. They tell me they just turn him off, because they don't want to move away from the Republican Party, but the more they watch him, the more they're moving away.
DOBBS: Randi?
RANDI RHODES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The strategy on the Democrats' part was to make something that there was no way that the House would not go for. So the Democrats in the Senate looked at the House bill, which was brutal, and they said, "All right, we'll make a bill that actually is kind of fair." The president is screaming he wants amnesty. And if you look at the issue...
DOBBS: ... No, he's screaming saying that he wants amnesty but he won't call it amnesty.
RHODES: Right, but he wants amnesty. He wants amnesty because he -- you know, Lou, I looked at the issue of Mexico, because for me, there's no way to solve the problem of people being pushed out of Mexico into the United States without looking at Mexico.
And it seems to me that PMEX, the state-run oil concern in Mexico is exactly what the president and this administration's after. They wanted it at the beginning, before 9/11, they wanted to deal with Vicente Fox, who said, if you let me push out some people, I will think about privatizing PMEX and inviting American oil companies in.
So basically it's humans, amnesty, for oil. It's humans for oil, all over again. That's what's going on. That's the underbelly of this immigration issue that no one wants to talk about.
GIORDANO: Lou, I would say this too. The big issue is the president's base. They hope to get the numbers up to around 40 percent. He's at 29, 28, whatever. Gay marriage is not going to do that. What the president's base wants done is to stop illegal immigration.
DOBBS: Gay marriage isn't going to do that?
GIORDANO: No, not this time around.
DOBBS: How about flag burning?
GIORDANO: I don't think those things -- you know, and in fact it may even backfire. Because I think a lot of talk radio hosts are going to say this is not what we're talking about. That's later, if you want to talk about those things, too, something about immigration.
RHODES: It's not just immigration, it's gas prices, education, healthcare. These -- you know, they took a poll...
DOBBS: ... You mean, real unsubstantive issues?
RHODES: Real, substantive issues. You know, Lou, there's 45 legislative days left. So if you just do the math real quick, you're going to find out that this week, maybe part of next is going to be spent on the "M" word, which is not marriage, it's majority -- Republican majority. That's what they're really debating.
And then they'll spend some time on flag burning, which is hysterical, because all you've got to do is make the flag out of baby pajamas, which is inflammable, and that goes away. And then they're going to spend another portion of these 45 days discussing a redistribution of wealth from the middle class, another trillion dollar tax cut in the Paris Hilton tax.
RHODES: ...wealth from the middle-class, another trillion dollar tax cut in the Paris Hilton tax. So this is what we have 45 days to look forward to. They won't do anything substantive five months ahead of the election with 45 legislative days left. Nothing is going to get done.
DOBBS: I'm curious, because the audience of this broadcast isn't buying, whether for or against gay marriage, whether for or against flag burning as a freedom of expression. The disgust that viewers are writing in with about these issues being broached right now, James, how is your audience receiving it?
MTUME: Our audience, the last time we talked is the same. And I'll repeat the phrase over and over. Because for my audience, they say the same thing -- left wing or right wing, it's on the same bird. As I said before. And I think that's part of the -- that's part of the critical mass that's being developed now is that again we talked about this before. Where is the distinction?
Randi just talked about flag burning, but let's not forget who was one of the big supporters for a bill like that is Hillary Clinton. Anyway, Lou, again, we're missing the point. If we don't understand that as pissed off as a lot of people are -- this is cable, I can say that, right?
DOBBS: It's America, you can say it.
MTUME: With the Republicans -- well, that's debatable. With the Republicans, it's the same kind of venom starting to happen, especially from our listeners with the Democratic Party. It's like, what is the distinction? Again, like I said before, it's like the West Coast playing the East Coast for the NBA championship, but it's the NBA championship.
What's the distinction right now between Democrats and Republicans?
RHODES: I would love to tell him.
GIORDANO: I would tell you at one point I would make, though, a lot of conservatives, there's a real split here, that are not religious conservatives. The religious base is getting all geared up, at least the leadership is. This is their moment to exert their power. But a lot of people that are conservatives are not wanting to talk about this, even if they are in synch with these people, they want to get to the real issues.
DOBBS: Randi?
RHODES: There is a huge difference between the parties. The reason why the Democrats come off as being ineffective is because they are a minority. They don't control the rules. They don't control what bills get debated, that's why they are debating gay marriage and all you see is Democrats on -- you know, when the Senate Judiciary Committee secretly went into a closet, which was perfect for half of these closeted Republicans that scream -- how's the Shakespeare -- me thinks thou dost protest too much?
These gay closeted Republicans went into the closet and said we're going to bring back gay marriage because this will get the base out to vote, otherwise they'll stay home. Russ Feingold, a Democrat, stood there and said to Arlen Specter, you aren't even for this, why are you voting this out of the Judiciary Committee? this is crazy. They got into a huge fight and Specter said, started to lecture Feingold and Feingold said I've had enough of your lectures and walked out, tried to take a stand.
We are the minority party. We are all minorities now, because none of us are getting any of our issues heard, because the Republican rabid majority has taken over the agenda.
DOBBS: I get the partisan drift.
RHODES: There's a huge difference between Democrats and Republicans.
MTUME: The thing I will agree with is they don't control these committees.
RHODES: Anything.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: You're on, James.
MTUME: Lou, Lou, take control.
DOBBS: Talk to me.
MTUME: OK. They don't control, she's absolutely right, and we all know that, they don't control the committees, therefore the bills -- they can't pass any bills. But they do control their vote. Now, my question is -- when the war was announced or when we went to war, where was the Democrats who stood up?
DOBBS: We have a failing education system. We have health care that is rising astronomically. We have a host of substantive issues. We have a war in Iraq, where nearly 2,500 Americans have died. Why aren't we moving forward to a solution on these issues as a body politic?
GIORDANO: Well, I think because parties are going with basically the interests that they have, whatever the corporate interests might be, or the base of their party. Peggy Noonan, Lou, talked this week about a third party being a possibility. Until there is something that is going to get Democrats and Republicans to have to take a stand on these issues, it won't happen.
DOBBS: James?
MTUME: He touched on what I was just thinking. This is not a democracy at this point. These two parties are one. And if a third party comes up, you see them unite. The perfect example, who is allowed to be included in the debates?
DOBBS: Randi, you get the last word. Quickly, please.
MTUME: Democratic majority. Try it again, you'll see. Civil rights happened during a Democratic majority. Democratic majorities don't amend the U.S. Constitution to keep people out of the Democratic way of life. Democratic majorities do not redistribute wealth. When you have a Democratic majority you get the rich getting richer and the poor getting richer.
DOBBS: The Democratic Parties don't redistribute wealth?
RHODES: No.
Thank you, all.
Still ahead here, we'll have the results of the poll tonight and more of your thoughts. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight, 65 percent of you say illegal immigration and outsourcing, the greatest threats to the traditional American family. Only four percent of you say gay marriage is a significant threat.
Taking a look now at more of your thoughts.
Harry in Alaska wrote in to say, "Lou, at a time when our nation is facing a multitude of major problems, our president and congress are wringing their hands over the gay marriage issue. That's like the captain of a sinking ship and his crew having a long discussion over what they intend to have for dinner."
Jay in Arizona: "I think the timing of the president's gay marriage proposal is brilliant. It shows clearly how the liberal mindset is to protect the Constitution when it comes to preserving gay America but how the same camp disregards the Constitution when it comes to illegal invasion."
Andy in Connecticut: "Lou, wouldn't the biggest threat to marriage be divorce? How about if right-wingers outlawed divorce and send divorced people to jail?"
We're going to have a national referendum about that one, I assure you.
Darlene in Washington: "Lou, thank you for the report of the state of electronic voting in our country. Our sacred vote has been privatized and sold to the highest bidder. Our democracy is at stake."
Katrina in California: "Lou, if no proof of citizenship has to be produced when voting, then I guess it just depends on how many Social Security numbers you have that determines how many times you can cast your vote in the same election."
We hope it doesn't come to that or that it hasn't come to that. --
And Dale in California: "Why worry about what legislation congress passes? They will only enforce what corporate America approves."
And Marie in Indiana: "Lou, you are covering electronic voting. I could hug you. As a lifelong I.S. professional I know how easy it is to provide backdoor coding for any software program. If we don't have a way to track our votes, to know our votes were actually cast for the candidates of our choice, our democracy is toast. I absolutely do not trust a corporation, a special interest, to oversee our election process. They have too much control over our government already. Thank you."
Thank you. We appreciate you sending your thoughts. Send them to us at loudobbs.com. We thank you for being with us tonight.
Pleas join us here tomorrow when among my guests will be Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska, one of only four Democrats to vote against the Senate's illegal alien amnesty bill. And Senator John Ensign will also be here. The Senate defeated his amendment to deny Social Security benefits for illegal aliens.
That's tomorrow night. We hope you'll be with us.
Thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf?
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