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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Pushes World Leaders to Pressure North Korea; Fierce Fighting in Gaza Tonight Between Israelis, Palestinians; Political Turmoil in Mexico After Presidential Election; Santorum Fighting Aggressively Against Illegal Alien Amnesty Bill Passed by Fellow Senate Republicans; Bill Owens Interview; Discovery Successfully Docks At International Space Station
Aired July 06, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, President Bush launches an all-out effort to convince Russia and China to support sanctions against North Korea. But Beijing and Moscow call for restraint and North Korea remains defiant.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, July 6th.
Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today tried and failed to persuade Russia and China to support international sanctions against North Korea. The president set it's vital for the world to send one message to North Korea. But Russia and China refused to support any strong measures against the North Korean regime.
Ed Henry reports from the White House on the president's effort to win international support.
Richard Roth reports from the United Nations on the battle in the Security Council over North Korea.
And Jamie McIntyre, at the Pentagon, has new information about what happened to the North Korean missile that failed.
We turn to Ed Henry first -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Kitty.
On his 60th birthday, the president engaging in some telephonic diplomacy, but so far not too much to celebrate from these calls to world leaders. The president started burning up the phone lines last night, calling his counterparts in South Korea and Japan, quickly getting some help, some support in urging tough sanctions from the United Nations against North Korea.
That's not a surprise. Those are some of his allies that he would already have on board. What's more significant, those phone calls this morning to the leaders of Russia and China. So far, they are not on board for tough sanctions by the United Nations. Russia, for example, insisting it only wants the U.N. to pass a non-binding statement urging North Korea to come back to the so-called six-party talks. That's why today, during a joint press availability with the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, the president was trying to downplay expectations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Diplomacy takes a while, particularly when you're dealing with a variety of partners. And so we're spending time diplomatically making sure that voice is unified.
I was pleased from the responses I got from the leaders. They, like me, were -- are concerned. You know, concerned about a person who doesn't seem to really care about what others say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, the president said he does want to get those allies speaking in one voice, but the truth is, so far, he's having difficulty getting them on the same page, given the fact that the White House itself says Kim Jong-Il is totally unpredictable, they're not sure when and if he might start trying to launch more missiles. Democrats are trying to ratchet up some pressure on the president, demanding that he sit down for direct talks with Kim Jong-Il.
So far, though, the president continues to refuse that. In fact, refusing that in an exclusive interview tonight with Larry King -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Ed, you know the president said diplomacy takes a while. But it certainly seems that with Russia and China there's no movement right from the very beginning on this.
HENRY: That's right. Now, the president will have another chance for some direct talks next week. He heads to St. Petersburg for the G8 summit. You know, originally, that agenda was mostly going to be focused on Iran, their thirst for nuclear weapons. Clearly that agenda changing now.
The president will have another opportunity to take another run at Russia and China next week -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.
Ed Henry.
Thanks, Ed.
Well, as Ed reported, President Bush also spoke about the North Korean threat in an exclusive interview with Larry King. The president said North Korea must return to the six-country talks on its nuclear program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: The reason why there's six-party talks is because we took the lead. And look, I've looked long and hard at this issue. And I'm confident the best way to solve the problem is to have the Chinese and the South Koreans and the Japanese and the Russians sitting side by side with us saying to Kim Jong-Il, it's not in your interest to isolate yourself from the world. It's not in your interest to keep defying the demands, reasonable demands of the world. And there's a better way for you to move forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: And you can see the full interview with President Bush and the first lady in a special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." It begins at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 p.m. Pacific here on CNN.
The United States tonight says there is broad and deep support in the United Nations for international sanctions against North Korea. But two of the most powerful countries on the U.N. Security Council are refusing to support sanctions, Russia and communist China.
Richard Roth reports from the United Nations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It appears the flight of the missiles of North Korea will be much shorter than the time it takes for the United Nations to respond. Aides to Security Council ambassadors debated the wording of a resolution which says North Korea's actions constitute a threat to international peace and security.
All 15 countries are willing to criticize Pyongyang's missile mayhem, but the U.S., Japan and others want to punish North Korea with sanctions. Russia and China favor a simple policy statement, not an enforceable resolution packed with the threat of sanctions.
ROBERT TEMPLER, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: China, Russia, and South Korea, the three countries that actually border North Korea, are very reluctant to take any measures that they see as particularly harsh. And that would mean sanctions.
ROTH: The U.S. said it's important to send a strong signal to North Korea.
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I think there are countries that have leverage over North Korea. And I think those countries bear the responsibility for trying to use that to bring the North Koreans back into compliance with their own stated policies.
ROTH: The most contentious part of the resolution suggested by Japan would place sanctions barring military-related goods from entering North Korea.
EMYR JONES PARRY, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: What we said, by movement of items into North Korea for the benefit of that missile system's development. I think we have to see how much support there is for strong action on that.
ROTH: The toughest part of the resolution may have to be dropped in order to get unanimous action aimed at Kim Jong-Il.
CESAR MAYORAL, ARGENTINEAN AMB. TO U.N.: In principle, we don't like sanctions against people. And sometimes the sanctions are against the people, not against the leaders.
ROTH: As the debate heats up at the U.N., analysts say North Korea likes to negotiate in the middle of a crisis, feeding their desire to be players on the world stage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: And right now, Kitty, the five permanent members of the Security Council, along with Japan, are meeting, trying to find any type of agreement on this contentious resolution on North Korea -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Richard Roth.
Thanks, Richard.
Well, there is new information tonight about the long-range North Korean missile that crashed into the sea shortly after launch.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
What's the latest, Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, a senior U.S. official with direct access to U.S. intelligence tells CNN that the long-range Taepodong missile failed almost immediately upon takeoff from Tuesday's launch. Apparently, a malfunction, not a deliberate abortion of the launch.
According to the officials, the missile spun out of control within seconds after liftoff and was out of control so quickly that the U.S. could not get a reading on the direction of the intended direction of flight. The official also tells CNN that U.S. intelligence has detected no other Taepodong missile that's ready to fly at this time, casting further doubt on reports suggesting that North Korea might be readying a second launch of a Taepodong.
However, that comes with the usual caveat, that because of North Korea's secretive nature and the fact that a lot of its missile facilities are located underground, making any predictions about North Korea's intentions is somewhat risky. Nevertheless, several U.S. officials with access to intelligence told CNN today that they see at this point no indication that North Korea is prepared to launch a second Taepodong any time in the near future -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Jamie McIntyre.
Well, as our U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth just reported, communist China says it opposes North Korea's missile tests, but Beijing is unwilling to support any sanctions against Pyongyang. And that means any international sanctions are likely to be ineffective.
Now, China is North Korea's biggest trading partner. China conducted trade worth $1.5 billion with North Korea last year. That's nearly 40 percent of North Korea's entire trade balance.
Communist China tonight is facing a missile threat that it cannot ignore. A television network in Taiwan says Taiwan is planning to test-fire a missile that can reach the Chinese coast. Now, for its part, China has deployed nearly 800 missiles opposite Taiwan.
China has refused to rule out the use of force against Taiwan. The Pentagon says the balance of power in the Taiwan Strait has now shifted in Beijing's favor.
In the Middle East, Israeli troops and Palestinian gunmen tonight are fighting bloody battles in Gaza. At least 18 Palestinians and one Israeli have been killed.
Paula Newton reports from Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Israeli tanks wedge themselves in the heart of northern Gaza, supported by menacing helicopters firing missiles and machine guns. As Palestinian militants headed for the front line, the fight was on.
Armed with machine guns and rocket launchers, militants held their ground. Even for the young here, it is a familiar cycle of violence that both sides seem to take on with a vengeance. And all the while, the innocent can't help but steal a glimpse and pay the price.
This paramedic tells us he just took a young boy to hospital with a gunshot wound to the chest. "It really was bad," he says. "He lost two liters of blood right here in the ambulance." The boy barely made it to hospital alive.
(on camera): This is what the Israeli army was trying to avoid, house-to-house combat in neighborhoods, where civilians are in the line of fire. It's been impossible to avoid. Already, there are dozens of civilians injured and dead.
(voice-over): The injured arrive in waves, (INAUDIBLE) new casualties. This boy was shot in the chest. And there are plenty of others right behind me.
It is true many of the dead and injured are battling the Israelis. But others, Dr. Saed Goda (ph) tells us, are ordinary people caught up in the fighting, as he reports on the dead from one missile attack. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We try to do the best. We must.
NEWTON: This all started when Palestinian militants captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Negotiations to save his life have been obscured by the bloody turn of events in Gaza.
But another Israeli soldier has already lost his life. The army suffered its first casualty of the conflict. One soldier was reported shot in the head in northern Gaza.
Paula Newton, CNN, Gaza.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Still to come, there's political turmoil in Mexico after officials announce a winner in the presidential election. We'll go live to Mexico City.
Also, African-Americans speak out about our illegal immigration crisis and amnesty for illegal aliens.
We'll have a special report.
And Congress is standing by as China dumps cheap agricultural products in this country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: New developments tonight in Mexico's election. The official results name Felipe Calderon as the victor, but populous presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador says he will not accept defeat.
Now, election results put him in second place. And Obrador claims the election was rigged and is calling on his supporters to take to the streets.
Harris Whitbeck joins us from Mexico City -- Harris.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kitty.
Electoral officials here are -- we expect them to give a press conference in about a half an hour, in which they will make public the fact that Felipe Calderon won the larger number of votes in Sunday's election. After Sunday's election, which was deemed too close to call, electoral officials called for a revision of all the vote count documents in all 300 electoral districts in Mexico.
That process started Wednesday at 8:00 in the morning. It ended today around noon. And during that process, it became clear that Felipe Calderon, in fact, had the larger number of votes.
Now, as you said, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador has said that he has found irregularities in the voting process and he has vowed to take a case to the electoral courts here. He's also asked his supporters to join him in a march, a large, large protest march which will take place Saturday in Mexico City.
But all in all, the markets, at least, the business community here in Mexico City, all seem to have reacted positively to the news that Felipe Calderon has the majority of votes. Felipe Calderon is seen as a pro -- he's pro-U.S. He advocates no major changes in Mexico's macroeconomic policies. He also advocates free trade and close ties to the United States. So he is, of course, seen with -- seen -- seen -- seen well by the business community here in Mexico.
So that's it from Mexico City.
Again, it will take a couple more days before he is officially declared the winner, but he does have the majority of the votes.
PILGRIM: Harris, are there any extra security measures being put in place, to your knowledge?
WHITBECK: No. No. It's pretty calm.
There have been sporadic protests over the last couple of days, but nothing major. Mexico City is a place where you can have up to 18 protests in one single day. So, no, this hasn't fazed anybody.
Again, perhaps the march on Saturday will be large. But the sense is that once Lopez Obrador's case goes to the electoral tribunals, public opinion will just kind of let them -- those cases work their way through that system.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much.
Harris Whitbeck, thank you.
Now, Felipe Calderon campaigned for the presidency of Mexico as the candidate who will create jobs and fight crimes. Calderon was backed by President Vicente Fox, and Calderon is a lifelong member of Fox's National Action Party. It's known as PAM.
Now, Calderon says the only way to reduce illegal immigration is to create jobs in Mexico. And like President Fox, he promises to cooperate with the United States on illegal immigration and drug trafficking.
On border security, Calderon opposes a border fence. He says a wall and the National Guard will not solve the illegal immigration crisis. Calderon can be expected to continue the policies of President Vicente Fox.
Now, President Bush said today he's in favor of making it as easy as possible for Mexicans and Canadians to cross the border and work in the United States. The president made his comments at today's news conference with the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Therefore, I fully understand the need for there to be simplicity in the documentation. It needs to be easy for somebody who is, you know, known and a person that is -- makes a living on the other side of the border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Canadians say a U.S. security measure demanding they show a passport before entering the United States will hurt their economy and inconvenience workers. The president says he is willing to be flexible before that law takes effect in 2008.
And public opinion research shows black Americans are less likely to support illegal alien amnesty than other ethnic groups in America. A recent poll found black Americans who were more than twice as likely to have lost a job to illegal aliens.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Best Cuts Barber Shop sits just a few blocks from our nation's capital. As Congress debates illegal immigration, so do the owner and the customers. Their views reflect opinion polls that show most American oppose amnesty.
BRANDON ALLEN, GRADUATE STUDENT: It's referred to as illegal immigration for a reason, because it's illegal. And you have to have some type of guideline as to who can be here.
SYLVESTER: The African-American community is increasingly speaking out against massive illegal immigration. A new coalition called Choose Black America recently held an event at the National Press Club. The organization argues the amnesty guest worker program would push down wages and take jobs away from low-income blacks and legal Hispanics.
FRANK MORRIS, ALLIANCE FOR SUSTAINABLE AMERICA: Once you increase the supply, you have either a wage depressing or a wage substitution effect that greatly impacts upon low-wage workers, no matter whom they are. And in this country, the low-wage workers are disproportionately African-Americans.
SYLVESTER: Economist point to New Orleans as an example of the substitution effect. Before Hurricane Katrina, there were lots of African-Americans doing those jobs the politicians say Americans don't do.
WILLIAM SPRIGGS, HOWARD UNIVERSITY ECONOMIC PROFESSOR: It isn't that American don't do low-wage jobs, that they won't work at fast- food restaurants or they won't make up beds at hotels, that they won't be busboys in restaurants. Again, New Orleans is testimony that, in fact, you can have an entire city where that's the type of job that was offered.
SYLVESTER: A new study by two Harvard economists estimates that a new wave of foreign workers pushed down wages of the typical American worker by 3.5 percent between 1980 and 2000. For high school dropouts, wages fell even more, by nearly 5 percent. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Economists say the federal government is actually interfering in the laws of supply and demand. Normally if there's a labor shortage, employers will have to naturally raise wages in order to attract new employees. But by importing a large number of low- skilled workers, that artificially keeps wages down, benefiting the companies -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: That makes a lot of sense. Thanks very much.
Lisa Sylvester.
Well, I'll be reading your e-mails in just a moment.
Plus, the communist Chinese government is dumping cheap food on the U.S. market. The United States refuses to punish China and help U.S. farmers. We'll have a special report.
Governor Bill Owens of Colorado will be my guest. He ordered his state legislature into session, and a special session to debate Colorado's growing illegal alien crisis.
And Senator Rick Santorum is on the attack over fellow Republicans over illegal immigration. Will it help his re-election prospects in the fall?
We'll have that story.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Tonight, this nation's failed trade policies are jeopardizing the future of U.S. farmers. Washington is refusing to uphold trade laws and collect anti-dumping duties against communist China, and Congress is standing by as China dumps cheap agricultural products on the American marketplace.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill Rhodes is a central Florida honey producer. Since 2003, he's seen American honey prices plunge from $1.50 a pound to less than 80 cents today. He blames a flood of even cheaper Chinese honey and the failure of the U.S. government to collect anti-dumping duties owed by honey importers.
BILL RHODES, HONEY PRODUCER: We are getting killed, not only people in the bee industry, but any other form of agriculture that has to compete with cheap labor.
WIAN: Rhodes' employees earn $9 to $12 an hour. Fuel costs are also squeezing him. But China is the biggest problem. China paid just over $1 million in anti-dumping penalties to U.S. honey producers in 2005. But the Customs Department failed to collect nearly $10 million owed by Chinese importers.
They often exploit a loophole in U.S. law allowing importers to delay paying anti-dumping duties for years. When Customs come to collect, the importers are out of business, operating under another name.
MICHAEL COURSEY, TRADE ATTORNEY: This is fraud on a scale that Customs was totally unprepared to meet. The Chinese, who are engaging in this type of activity, are exploiting weaknesses in U.S. law.
WIAN: Other American agricultural products, including garlic, canned mushrooms, apple juice concentrate, and crawfish, are also impacted. In fact, for every dollar Customs collected in the anti- dumping duties on those five products since 2003, it has failed to collect $15. Critics say Congress, not Customs, is to blame for failing to require importers to post a cash deposit to cover anti- dumping duties.
Mississippi Congressman Charles Picker is sponsoring legislation to close that loophole.
REP. CHARLES PICKERING (R), MISSISSIPPI: If we lose critical sectors of our economy to unfair trade practices, we can never regain that. We've got to start holding the line very firm against the Chinese.
WIAN: In the meantime, U.S. honey producers suffer.
DAVID ALLIBONE, PRESIDENT, SIOUX HONEY ASSN.: Our industry is a small industry with limited resources to pursue avenues like that. There has been a lot of beekeepers that went out of business.
WIAN: Another U.S. industry at risk from foreign competition, cheap labor, and the U.S. government's failure to fight back.
Casey Wian, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Since we first spoke with the honey producers, prices have risen a bit due to dry conditions in Florida, but producers say prices would be much higher if it weren't for the cheap Chinese imports. Over the past three years, U.S. Customs has been unable to collect more than $400 million in anti-dumping duties from China, about five times the total of every other nation combined.
And that does bring us the subject of tonight's poll. Which of these countries do you believe is the greatest threat to the United States: North Korea, Iran, China or Russia?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com and we'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
It's now time to take a look at your thoughts.
Wes in Florida writes, "When you use the word 'hearings,' it implies someone is listening. Have you not realized that we have a deaf Congress and administration?"
John in North Carolina, "The only thing I believe will come out of field hearings is that taxpayers will pay for field trips for our exalted representatives that we cannot afford to take ourselves."
And Brian in South Carolina, "If the United States were to remove all illegal immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. That country is Mexico."
And Sheila in Florida writes, "I guess we all should be watching the elections in Mexico since one of them will be our next president. Oops, I mean, Mexico's next president."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts a little bit later on in the broadcast.
And still ahead, up in smoke. Florida's high court says tobacco companies don't have to pay a record damage award.
That's ahead.
And Colorado Governor Bill Owens isn't waiting for the federal government to address the illegal immigration crisis. He called the state legislature into special session. He joins me.
And astronauts aboard Discovery are tossed in space as the shuttle performs orbital acrobatics. A full report on the Discovery mission coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Governor Bill Owens of Colorado will be my guest in a moment. He's demanding a crackdown on illegal aliens in his state. But first, let's look at some of the hour's headlines.
New Jersey will soon be open for business again. Officials tonight reached an agreement on their state budget. That's after a six-day government shutdown. The crisis shut down New Jersey's casinos and threw more than 80,000 people out of work.
The Florida Supreme Court today handed a major victory to the U.S. tobacco industry. The court tossed out a $145 billion product liability verdict against big tobacco. This is the largest product liability case in U.S. history.
And gay marriage advocates suffered setbacks today in New York and Georgia. New York's highest court ruled same-sex marriage is not allowed under state law. And Georgia's highest court re-instated a constitutional ban against gay marriage in that state.
Tonight, Republican Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania is fighting aggressively against the illegal alien amnesty bill passed by fellow Senate Republicans. The senator's battle against Republican leaders of his party comes as he fights for his own political survival.
Dana Bash is live in Washington with the story -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kitty. We were in Pennsylvania this week spending time with both candidates in that white hot Pennsylvania Senate race. Senator Santorum is trailing his Democratic challenger Bob Casey Jr. by double digits in most polls. What he's been trying to do in recent weeks is to infuse new life into his campaign.
And that is, the way he's trying to do that is play up his vote against the immigration measure. Other members of the Senate GOP leadership champion. Now you see there his first and only TV ad so far during this campaign. It is about immigration. And last night, he had the first of what he promises will be a series of campaign forums touting an election year border security only bill he recently introduced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: We need to put the horse before the cart. And that is that the biggest problem facing the American public, as they perceive it, is that we have a border security problem and that for 20 years now we promised that amnesty and toughening the border would work. We grant the amnesty, we pledge border security and only one of the two happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now Santorum aides called this new push a political no- brainer for him because it allows him to separate himself from the president on a major issue and from his opponent, too. Bob Casey has said he probably would have voted for the Senate bill that allows a path to citizenship. Casey calls Santorum's new immigration push, though, hypocritical because he said the senator voted seven times against border security funding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB CASEY, DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER: He's been talking a good game on border security. He hasn't voted the right way. And I think it's about time that he was honest with the people of Pennsylvania, honest about his record, and honest about this issue in the campaign. But he's been in the U.S. Senate for 12 years, and his first set of advertising on radio and television is about an issue that he's got a bad voting record on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, Pennsylvania Democrats say Santorum is trying to manufacture a campaign issue here because illegal immigration is not a big problem in their state of Pennsylvania, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Dana, what does Senator Santorum say about the charges that he's manufacturing the issue?
BASH: He insists that basically that's not true. He says he's actually gotten more feedback, faster on the issue of immigration than any other that he's gotten in his 12 years in the Senate. He does concede that Pennsylvania is not like other states, of course, border states, in terms of its problem with illegal immigration. But he makes the point that when you're talking about border security, that is an issue of national security and that's an issue for the whole country, even and especially people in Pennsylvania, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much Dana Bash, and we'll have more reporting on this tomorrow night.
The Colorado legislature met in special session today to discuss that state's growing illegal alien crises. Colorado is one of the fastest growing illegal alien populations in the country. Legislators today debated whether to cut most state services to illegal aliens. Now, Governor Bill Owens, who called the legislature into special session today, joins me from Denver. Thanks for being with us, sir.
GOV. BILL OWENS (R), COLORADO: You bet, Kitty. How are you today?
PILGRIM: Very well. Let's go to a statement that you made to the joint legislature of Colorado last month. And I'd like to read it and you can hear it, we're putting it up.
"Employers currently have a financial incentive to hire undocumented illegal immigrants as these workers traditionally accept lower wages and at the same time employers currently have little legal incentive to ensure the employees they hire may lawfully work in this country." What are your plans on cracking down on the employers who are abusing this system? After all, this is the demand side of the equation.
OWENS: Well, what I proposed in Colorado and what the legislature is considering tonight is a proposal that, in the future, if you want to hire somebody in Colorado, they have to have a Colorado driver's license or a Colorado I.D. card. These are very secure verifiable documents which, in fact, takes us out of that federal loop.
We don't have to worry about the federal social security data base. We don't have to worry about whether or not the Feds have their act together. We can, in Colorado, use our own secure identification card and say that in the future, if you want to work here, you have to have that identification card, which is very difficult to obtain if you're here illegally.
So in many respects, what Colorado is addressing here tonight in this special session is a way where we don't have to wait for the federal government any longer. We're going to, within reason and in a very moderate and humane fashion, start to address this challenge ourselves.
PILGRIM: You know, in some of our reporting on this broadcast, we looked into the federal system. There were very few if not any fines levied on businesses that hired illegal aliens. Will you be doing some fining? How will the enforcement work?
OWENS: You know, Kitty, the enforcement would be a combination of fines and other measures. But it's actually even simpler than that. You would have to call into an 800 number or access the state database through the state internet Web site to see if that driver's license is a, has been forged, see if it's legitimate. If we tell you that, yes, that's a legitimate I.D. card driver's license, that gives you permission to then employ that person.
Again, we have 250,000 people in this state here illegally. The vast majority of them are good people. They've come here fore a job. But at some point, a state the size of Colorado has to decide, you know, we can't afford to take care of all the needy peoples of the world. And we have to do some things for our citizens first. And that's what we're discussing this evening in this legislative session.
PILGRIM: Let me get into the ballot initiative, 55. In Colorado, the Supreme Court basically killed it. And this would have prohibited illegal immigrants in Colorado from receiving taxpayer funded public services except for those required by the federal government, which is emergency medical services.
OWENS: Right.
PILGRIM: Now, the Supreme Court killed that ballot.
OWENS: It did.
PILGRIM: How do you expect to proceed with this issue?
OWENS: Kitty, that's a good question. The Supreme Court, for the second straight year in Colorado, in what I regard as a political move, kept the citizens of Colorado from voting on this proposal. I called the legislature back into session to put that back on the ballot in a way that would be constitutional. The legislature has, in fact, said we prefer to do it ourselves legislatively.
Over the next few days, the question's going to be, can the legislature do it on its own in a fashion that is as good and as significant as what the voters would have approved in November? If I'm not convinced the legislature is going to do as good a job, then I'm going to press the legislature to put it on the ballot itself. In Colorado, you can deal one of two ways, through a citizen petition or through a legislative referral.
PILGRIM: You know, this is costing taxpayers money, a quarter of a million illegal immigrants in Colorado. How much do you expect to be able to sell this on the financial merits of this program?
OWENS: Well, I do believe that illegal immigration costs Colorado. And I think that that's one of the significant reasons why the people have wanted to vote on it these last two Novembers. Supreme Court has not allowed that vote to occur, which I found patently unfair. We're spending more than half a billion dollars in Colorado just on K through 12 education for the children who are here from illegal immigrants.
Again, these are good people. I am not bashing anybody. I have a lot of respect for people who are trying to improve their own lot in life. But my responsible as governor is to work for the people who are here legally. That's why we're having this debate in Colorado right now.
PILGRIM: Thanks for being on the program. Governor Bill Owens. Thank you sir.
Coming up, tensions rising in Mexico. As one candidate calls his supporters into the streets, we'll have a leading expert on Mexican politics joining us.
Also fierce fighting in Afghanistan as insurgents regroup. What happened to the early victory in the war on terror. Well, General David Grange joins us to explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Tonight, the International Space Station can put out the no vacancy sign. The station is now fully staffed for the first time in three years. And this comes after Space Shuttle Discovery successfully docked following some spectacular maneuvers.
Miles O'Brien has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could almost hear the symphony as the shuttle and the space station waltzed overhead, complete with a graceful pirouette as Discovery approached the orbiting outpost.
Commander Steve Lindsey wasn't showing off. He was giving the duo on board the space station a chance to play paparazzi. They snapped 350 digital photos to make sure the shuttle heat shield is picture perfect ready for a fiery homecoming.
WILLIAM READDY, FORMER SHUTTLE COMMANDER: By the time you marry that 100-ton space shuttle off with a 250-ton space station, it is just a marvel. It really is a dream to fly. It flies very, very precisely.
O'BRIEN: The somersault complete, Discovery settled down and homed in for a bull's-eye docking at the station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Houston and out to Discovery, capture confirmed.
O'BRIEN: Smiles, hugs and pictures as the combined crew of nine mingled in the out of this world science lab, then got right to work. Discovery is delivering some precious cargo to the station: 5,000 pound of equipment, supplies and a third crew member, German astronaut Thomas Reiter, his weight unknown.
TONY CECCACCI, LEAD FLIGHT DIRECTOR: Two days in a row, we're kind of two for two, and looking forward to continuing success all the way to when we undock and, of course, when we land.
O'BRIEN: Shuttle managers pleased to see these pictures. The orange external fuel tank not shedding as much insulating foam as it has in the past. The few pieces that flew off apparently did no harm to the orbiter. The most serious blemish apparently caused by a bird. Perhaps the vultures are angry after what happened last year when Discovery left the launch pad.
Miles O'Brien, CNN, New York.
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PILGRIM: The proposal for a permanent manned space station was first advanced by President Reagan. So while Shuttle Discovery was docking with the space station, today the USS Ronald Reagan was steaming into San Diego Harbor. The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier and its escorts returned home after six months in the Persian Gulf and Western Pacific.
Nearly 5,000 sailors serve on the carrier, and they launched more than 6,000 sorties from the flight deck during this tour of duty. And we'd like to say, welcome home.
Tensions are rising in Mexico following the presidential election. As we reporter, ruling party candidate Felipe Calderon has been declared the winner, but his leftist candidate Manuel Lopez Obrador is challenging the results, and he's calling for massive street demonstrations on Saturday.
George Grayson wrote a biography of Lopez Obrador, and he's a professor with the College of William & Mary, and he joins us from Mexico City. And thanks for being with us, sir.
GEORGE GRAYSON, PROF., WILLIAM & MARY COLLEGE: Nice to be here.
PILGRIM: You know, I must -- hi. I must ask you, Obrador says he won't accept the results. They have until September 6th, I believe, to sort of legislate this or rule on this?
GRAYSON: Well, after the Federal Electoral Institute that organizes the election and gives a preliminary count finishes its work, as it did today, there are four day, not including the weekend, for the loser to pose any challenges to the results.
And so the middle of next week that process will begin. It could go on until December 6th, but it certainly won't because of the impact, the uncertainty, it would have on economic markets. I think it's fair to say that Felipe Calderon is the president-elect of Mexico.
PILGRIM: Obrador is calling on his supporters to rally on Saturday. What do you predict might happen? He has a history of protesting elections, does he not?
GRAYSON: Oh, yes. He's turned mass marches from an art form into an exact science, but on Saturday he's only called for his supporters to gather in Mexico's huge central square, the Zocalo. And he's going to read out one by one the number of irregularities that he and his staff have found during the campaign.
But I can tell you that, I think, Kitty, that the people are sick and tired of politics here. They used to think that the longest day of the year was first day of summer. Now they're sure it was July 2nd which seems to go on and on and on because July 2nd was the date when the election took place.
PILGRIM: And you were with it every step of the way. Let's move on to Calderon, who appears by all purposes to be the winner. Let's talk about something that he said in terms of relations with the United States. He has said recently, "I want to establish a very constructive relationship without bowing my head or lowering my eyes to the Americans." Doesn't sound very conciliatory.
GRAYSON: Oh, well, in Mexican presidential elections, you have to play the nationalistic card, just as in U.S. presidential elections, you try to make nice with Mexico. That's the rhetoric that we hear after every presidential campaign here.
PILGRIM: He has met with President Bush several times. What might -- movement might we see on such sticky issues as immigration and border security?
GRAYSON: Well, it behooves both countries to emphasize border security. On immigration, I think that the House Republicans are going to oppose any kind of reform except one that tightens up immigration laws.
The real imperative for the Calderon administration is not to fall into the act of calling themselves victims of the world economy, but starting to break the bottlenecks in their own economy that impedes competition, efficiency and quality products. Otherwise the Chinese, who are already eating their lunch, are going to start eating their breakfast and dinner, too.
PILGRIM: You bring out a great point. The Mexican economy has been damaged by global trade. How do you see Calderon fixing this? We have a few minutes, but do you see anything in his platform that suggests a remedy?
GRAYSON: Well, I would disagree that it's been hurt by global trade. The problem is that with NAFTA, the Mexican economy opened up to the world. But internally, you still have monopolies and oligopolies and conglomerates, whether it's in electricity, oil, cement, telephones, telecommunications. And so it is up to Mexico to do some trust busting so it can be more competitive. Otherwise, unless it swims, it's going to sink.
PILGRIM: All right. George Grayson, thanks very much for your analysis tonight, and also all throughout this election. You've been amazing in helping us sort through the issues. Thank you, George Grayson.
GRAYSON: Thank you so much, Kitty.
PILGRIM: OK. Now, a reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Which of these countries do you believe is the greatest threat to the United States? North Korea, Iran, China and Russia. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com and we'll bring you the results in a few minutes.
And also coming up, insurgents regroup in Afghanistan and the fighting intensifies. General David Grange joins me to discuss the other front in the war on terror.
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PILGRIM: President Bush met with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper at the White House today, and one of the main issues on their agenda was the war in Afghanistan. U.S., Canadian and British troops are taking part in a very big offensive against Taliban insurgents, and coalition casualties are rising.
Joining me now is General David Grange. And thanks for being with us, sir.
Are you surprised by the extent of the insurgent resistance in Afghanistan at this point?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe that the coalition forces have very good intelligence on the targets that they hit. Otherwise, I don't think they would have killed, say, 35 in one particular attack. But I do think that maybe they were surprised somewhat of the amount of the resistance and what they uncovered once they swept the areas.
PILGRIM: The U.S. and Afghan militaries may deploy more than 10,000 soldiers in the area. This seems like a major offensive. Describe to us what they're facing and why this kind of force is necessary.
GRANGE: Well, I think what they're getting ready to do, Kitty, is set conditions for the transition between American troops and other NATO forces, and -- in the southern area there in Afghanistan. And the idea is to keep the enemy off balance, separate the people from the Taliban. And to maintain a momentum, to be on the offensive. The only way that you can win is being on the offensive. And that's exactly what they're doing.
PILGRIM: Do you think that there are enough troops there now, between the U.S., Britain and Canada, to defeat the Taliban?
GRANGE: Well, the number of troops is going to depend on the time, the place and the situation at that time. There's a lot of troops in this area right now because of this offensive. They'll reduce that number when operations wind down, and then they'll pick it up again, wind it down again, depending on what intelligence they receive. And, of course, what the enemy does, because the enemy has a vote in where you fight and where you go. PILGRIM: Why is it nearly five years after the fall of the Taliban government that there still is so much Taliban resistance?
GRANGE: Well, the problem is you have a sanctuary in Pakistan that enables Taliban forces to regroup, refit, train, before they re- launch new attacks, before they start to creep back into areas that coalition forces may have left or the Afghan army has not built up enough capability to take over in sufficient numbers to keep them out.
But it's very similar to, for instance, Laos and Vietnam and Cambodia and Vietnam, where enemy forces would just cross the border and you could not go after them. And it's the same situation in Pakistan.
PILGRIM: I know this is the one question that everyone would like to answer. I'm not sure that it's fair to ask you, but do you have any estimate when Afghan troops and police will be able to keep the peace there?
GRANGE: You know, the Afghan police and military has improved every day, just like the forces in Iraq are. And so the coalition forces will reduce depending on the capabilities of the Afghan troops.
One must remember that it's not just training these forces to shoot, move and communicate. What they have to do is establish trust with the local people. And that takes time, to get that respect, that trust, the confidence established. It doesn't happen overnight, and that's going to take some time.
And the other wild card is do the warlords, will they continue to support the central government? If they decide not to, then you have another challenge besides the Taliban for the Afghan army and police, and that will set them back a ways.
But I think you're going to always see some type, some level of coalition forces in Afghanistan, for no other reason than to train the leadership and special support skills and intelligence skills of the Afghan army and police in order to maintain a proficiency.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. General David Grange, thank you.
GRANGE: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Still ahead, more of your thoughts and we'll have the results of tonight's poll. Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: Now, the results of tonight's poll: 74 percent of you say China is the greatest threat to the United States.
Well, now, for some of your thoughts.
Joe in Washington writes, "I was proud to fly the Stars and Stripes on the 4th of July, but I'm confused about what flag to fly on Labor Day. Is it the Mexican flag or the flag of India?" And Donald in Texas writes, "The fence we need should be built around the D.C. Beltway. Sure, it looks like we let the lunatics out. Maybe a D.C. fence with gate guards could keep the incumbents from returning. Nothing else will."
And Matt in Maryland: "In 1776, this country said no to one King George. And I am wondering when it will say no to this King George, as we are clearly once again receiving taxation without representation."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose email is read on this broadcast will receive a copy of Lou's book, "Exporting America."
Well, thanks very much for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. And among our guests, Sheriff Rick Flores. He joins us from Laredo, Texas, where he's testifying before a congressional hearing on border security tomorrow.
For all of us here, from New York, good night. And "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with John King.
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